Bay Ridge: Racist as it ever was

[Anarchy77]

I went to the same high school mentioned in this piece back in the 70's: I used to hear racial slurs walking to the subway, racist jokes from gym teachers, and n word was all over the graffiti on the desks and the bathroom walls. Fortunately looking like a poindexter probably got me out of a beating.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/437674p-368707c.html

[sfenn1117]

I just graduated from Fort Hamilton High in '05, just like my father did in '80. Racism is not a huge problem, but it does exist here. To be honest, the perpretrators that I saw there were the Italians. More precisely, the ridiculous Italians, the Guidos, whose parents are loaded and the kids are spoiled rotten. They tend to be protective of their girls. I will bet more than anything that these were the people who beat up the kid. I just stayed away from them in school. I'm probably more Italian than half of the Guidos, and they are an embarrassment to Italian heritage.

It is sad and I hope they are punished. 14 freakin years old, what the hell is a matter with these kids. As if their life is so rough. Fort Hamilton is mainly a safe school with good students. The Telecommunications High School, on the other hand, one block from my house, is filled with punk kids, who sometimes smoke on my stoop during lunch. The perpetrators of this case should be forced to spend some time there and see how they are treated, they'd love to get a hold of some pretty boys.

I tried to get into Stuyvesant in Manhattan but didn't :mad:

[Anarchy77]

Racism is not a huge problem, but it does exist here. To be honest, the perpretrators that I saw there were the Italians. More precisely, the ridiculous Italians, the Guidos, whose parents are loaded and the kids are spoiled rotten.
Racism wasn't a huge problem primarily because there weren't enough black people hanging around for them to get baseball bat swinging racist about. And yes the perpetrators back in the day were primarily the italians.:mad:


I tried to get into Stuyvesant in Manhattan but didn't :mad: Sorry about that man. It's a very competitive school to get into.

[sfenn1117]

Stuyvesant is an incredible school, but I'm glad I went to Fort Hamilton, since I took up swimming there and it's now my favorite hobby. I've met kids at Stuyvesant, the majority are very pretentious anyways, and it would have just been a hassle to get to everyday.

I'm not sure where you lived in Bay Ridge or when you left, but I love this neighborhood. I mean, I'm on the fringe of the neighborhood near the towers, but I've grown up with the same kids my whole life, and have had the same neighbors that my dad grew up with too. Neighborhood shops that have served generations are still around (My mother goes to Cangiano's nearly every day). It truly is a small town in the big city. There's even a relatively high amount of Republicans. I don't want my neighborhood to be known as the racist neighborhood.

The demographics are changing anyway, a lot of foreigners are moving in. Not necessarily blacks or hispanics, but an Asian spill over from Brooklyn Chinatown and a large Muslim community. The high wealth core centered around the high school will never disappear though.

[Anarchy77]

I didn't live in Bay Ridge. I commuted to the high school from east flatbush. Public education wasn't all that great in nyc with a few exceptions like Stuyvesant, but the schools really sucked in and around flatbush. I think the neighborhood has always been primarily republican. Few or no black people--surprise surprise.

I'm not surprised at the cops reaction in playing it down. Some of the kids parents who perpetrated the crime may be connected to the mob and they've probably got some influence over how the law gets enforced, particularly when it comes to their own kids getting in trouble.

[milleniumcab]

If any parent listening to this thread, give your child some love of music or/and arts..Get them to play an instrument, draw or sing...

LaGuardia High Shool In Manhattan is probably one of the best High Schools in NYC and students don't have to be SUPER smart to get in.. But they are screened with auditions....;)

[kliq6]

Bay ridge is a great area, it has problems but its just as racist as anyother area. If yo ugo to Bed stuy, the have people not liking whites and so on

[Anarchy77]

Bay ridge is a great area, it has problems but its just as racist as anyother area. If yo ugo to Bed stuy, the have people not liking whites and so on
The neighborhoods of Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst, going all the way back to the 70's from my recollection, have always had a special hatred for black people. The white ethnic enclaves in the outer boroughs with lots of Italians have tended to have reps of enormous contempt for black people. In bed sty, anybody black or white who has something nice to rip off or looks like they can be taken is in peril which is the case for any neighborhood with large numbers of poor people regardless of color. Not so much in bed sty anymore from what I understand with all the gentrification.

[ZippyTheChimp]

The neighborhoods of Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst, going all the way back to the 70's from my recollection, have always had a special hatred for black people. I have lived in NYC throughout the time you were here, and to the present, unlike your occasional visits here which, as you stated in another thread, are limited mostly to Manhattan. So you're a tourist now.

There was plenty of racial tension in New York City in the 1970s, but your characterization of Bay Ridge at the time as having a "special hatred for black people" doesn't fit with my recollection. Bay Ridge at that time, especially since remaining somewhat upscale while much of Brooklyn deteriorated, was a very white neighborhood where black people did not venture.

In bed sty, anybody black or white who has something nice to rip off or looks like they can be taken is in peril which is the case for any neighborhood with large numbers of poor people regardless of color.
Similarly, if you were white, you didn't stroll through Bed Stuy thinking, "Well, I'm OK. I don't have any money."

More mob-connected than Bay Ridge was Bensonhurst, where the archetype of hate crimes in Brooklyn occurred in 1989, when a black teenager, Yusef Hawkins, answering an ad for a car for sale in Bensonhurst, was murdered just for being there.

At any rate, your perceptions are out of date. Both neighborhoods are much more racially diverse.

Look! Black woman in broad daylight in Bay Ridge.
http://www.pbase.com/zippythechimp/image/21045238.jpg

[sfenn1117]

Ha, my grandma worked in Lowens for several years. I only live one block away from there.

[Anarchy77]

I have lived in NYC throughout the time you were here, and to the present, unlike your occasional visits here which, as you stated in another thread, are limited mostly to Manhattan. So you're a tourist now.

There was plenty of racial tension in New York City in the 1970s, but your characterization of Bay Ridge at the time as having a "special hatred for black people" doesn't fit with my recollection. Bay Ridge at that time, especially since remaining somewhat upscale while much of Brooklyn deteriorated, was a very white neighborhood where black people did not venture.

I would definitely accept your view that bay ridge has changed since the 70's, however, speaking from my own personal experience going to high school in bay ridge in the 70's, hearing with my own ears and seeing with my own eyes, I stand by my recollection. And given my personal experience, it's understandable why black people did not venture to bay ridge (as you say) at that time.

Granted, it's very likely bed sty wasn't safe for white people, but it also wasn't for some black people either, in person nor in property.

[eddhead]

I lived in Bay Ridge for 7 years in the 80's and loved it. Would not in anyway associate this neighborhood with Bensonhurst which ethnically is primarily Itailian Amercan. Bay Ridge "proper" to me is bordered to the north by 65th street, east by 5th ave, and west by Narrows. Some people extend the east ern border beyond 5th, into what I would consider Dyker Park. Anyway, Bay Ridge as defined by me is actually fairly ethinically diverse (at least compared to Dyker Park and Besonhurst) but not racially so. Still, I never encountered overt signs of racism while living there. p.s. the term "guido" as used in a previous post, would be considered a slur to many Italian Americans.:)


«

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

The neighborhoods of Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst, going all the way back to the 70's from my recollection, have always had a special hatred for black people. The white ethnic enclaves in the outer boroughs with lots of Italians have tended to have reps of enormous contempt for black people. In bed sty, anybody black or white who has something nice to rip off or looks like they can be taken is in peril which is the case for any neighborhood with large numbers of poor people regardless of color. Not so much in bed sty anymore from what I understand with all the gentrification.
co-sign(expect the gentrification part. It's a problem but not that big). A white person virtual never have to worry about being killed in bedstuy just for being white.

One thing i always found interesting is, how Italians(not all) were discriminated against when coming here and always tried to up one's social status by downing other groups(black). Not to mention that Italians are one of the highest(if not the highest) group of whites with black forefathers. I mean, even Spike said it....

[PHLguy]

I have friends from school who live In Washington Heights, Harlem and Queens and they always talk about how Racist New York is and how corrupt and Racist the Police are (at least in their areas)


But US cities are still incredibly segragated. And I think always will be. Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, STL, NY, LA and Philly are the worst I think.

[eddhead]

co-sign(expect the gentrification part. It's a problem but not that big). A white person virtual never have to worry about being killed in bedstuy just for being white.

One thing i always found interesting is, how Italians(not all) were discriminated against when coming here and always tried to up one's social status by downing other groups(black). Not to mention that Italians are one of the highest(if not the highest) group of whites with black forefathers. I mean, even Spike said it....

I think your observation (upping social status by downing others) is generally true of all immigrant groups. The Irish were discriminated against before the Italians, accounting for the tension and rivalry of those ethnic groups reflected during the italian immigration waive. Same with the Germans before the irish.. The story goes on.. the last group in always seems to want to denegrate the group that precedes them.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

I think your observation (upping social status by downing others) is generally true of all immigrant groups. The Irish were discriminated against before the Italians, accounting for the tension and rivalry of those ethnic groups reflected during the italian immigration waive. Same with the Germans before the irish.. The story goes on.. the last group in always seems to want to denegrate the group that precedes them.You see that's the thing, Black people were here before Italians The way things are portrayed, you would swear everybody was here before Black people except hispanics and asians. This is a NY forum, i mean from a historic view.

[Ninjahedge]

Well then what made it so that these other immigrant groups were able to rise up and integrate themselves into society despite racial differences?

Was it simply that they looked "less" different than the black community, or was theer more of a solidarity that halped get their people into positions of power that eventually enabled them to "fit in"?

I am trying to see any cultural differences between the freed slaves and what they had to do in order to succeed and what the floods of immigrants had to do and why one set of actions seemed to yeild better long term results... How many other factors were there?

[ASchwarz]

You see that's the thing, Black people were here before Italians The way things are portrayed, you would swear everybody was here before Black people except hispanics and asians. This is a NY forum, i mean from a historic view.

That's not really true in NYC, though it's true in other parts of the country.

Many (most?) NYC blacks have roots in the West Indies and many more are from West Africa.

Most black neigborhoods in and around the City are now heavily West Indian. Flatbush, East Flatbush, Crown Heights and Canarsie are mostly West Indian. In Queens, I would say the middle class black parts of Southeast Queens are mostly West Indian. Same goes for Wakefield in the Bronx, Mt. Vernon, East Orange, etc.

[eddhead]

You see that's the thing, Black people were here before Italians The way things are portrayed, you would swear everybody was here before Black people except hispanics and asians. This is a NY forum, i mean from a historic view.

Of course the impact is a matter of conjecture, but there is an underlying reality that seperates the african american experience from that of immigrant groups who migrated of their own volition. The first and most fundamental of these is that african americans did not come here voluntarily, were and for hundreds of years were prohibited by law from integrating with the general population. In fact, african americans were legally prohibited from even reading until after the civil war, and from a practcial perspective for a period well beyond that. It was not until the 1950's that the concept of "seperate but equal" (which was never really equal) was overturned(Brown vs. Board of Ed) and until 1964 when the first real piece of civil rights legistlation was passed. The overall effect of decades of discrimination was the creation of a class of signigicantly disadvantated people.. As a result, for many years, mainstream society has recognized and/or percieved this them as being on the bottom rung of the social and economic class. From there the same rules apply.. everybody wants a class of people to be downtrodden so they are not on the bottom of the list. Anyway, that is what i think...

[lofter1]

You also have to consider deeply held beliefs as exemplified HERE (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=113693&postcount=11).

Such beliefs were originally codified in our Constitution (and despite subsequent Amendments the beliefs often continued on) where African Americans not considered "free Persons" were defined as property with "3/5" value :

The Constitution of the United States: A Transcription (http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html)
Note: The following text is a transcription of the Constitution in its original form. Items that are hyperlinked have since been amended or superseded.Article. I.
Section. 2.
The House of Representatives shall be composed of Members chosen every second Year by the People of the several States, and the Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature...Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons (http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#14)... Article. IV.
Section. 2.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States...No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due (http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html#13).

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Well then what made it so that these other immigrant groups were able to rise up and integrate themselves into society despite racial differences?

Was it simply that they looked "less" different than the black community, or was theer more of a solidarity that halped get their people into positions of power that eventually enabled them to "fit in"?

I am trying to see any cultural differences between the freed slaves and what they had to do in order to succeed and what the floods of immigrants had to do and why one set of actions seemed to yeild better long term results... How many other factors were there?It was pure outright racism that made it so different. Black had less opportunity and like you said obviously couldn't say "im not black"(tho some did), like can Italian could, irish, jewish etc. Plus the aspect of when a community chose to migrate to a country they tend to sacrifice that first gen for the betterment of the one's that follow, which probably explain why west indians do better(?) then black americans. With that said, numerous of effects from the black community had more obstacles then european immigrants, like Black Wall Street.

That's not really true in NYC, though it's true in other parts of the country.

Many (most?) NYC blacks have roots in the West Indies and many more are from West Africa.

Most black neigborhoods in and around the City are now heavily West Indian. Flatbush, East Flatbush, Crown Heights and Canarsie are mostly West Indian. In Queens, I would say the middle class black parts of Southeast Queens are mostly West Indian. Same goes for Wakefield in the Bronx, Mt. Vernon, East Orange, etc.
I think the Black americans still out number west indians but it is close. Plus i have a strong feeling that the italians werent thinking to themselves "i hate those west indians, but not the black americans because there were here before us".


Of course the impact is a matter of conjecture, but there is an underlying reality that seperates the african american experience from that of immigrant groups who migrated of their own volition. The first and most fundamental of these is that african americans did not come here voluntarily, were and for hundreds of years were prohibited by law from integrating with the general population. In fact, african americans were legally prohibited from even reading until after the civil war, and from a practcial perspective for a period well beyond that. It was not until the 1950's that the concept of "seperate but equal" (which was never really equal) was overturned(Brown vs. Board of Ed) and until 1964 when the first real piece of civil rights legistlation was passed. The overall effect of decades of discrimination was the creation of a class of signigicantly disadvantated people.. As a result, for many years, mainstream society has recognized and/or percieved this them as being on the bottom rung of the social and economic class. From there the same rules apply.. everybody wants a class of people to be downtrodden so they are not on the bottom of the list. Anyway, that is what i think...Agreed. Plus the re writing of history.

lofter1:Yep

[kliq6]

What does that article have to do with Bay Ridge!!

[lofter1]

The discussion had branched out into a wider view ...

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
A little too wide.

I've moved the posts to a new thread in "News & Politics."

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10428

[kliq6]

thanks Zip

[Fabrizio]

MayorOfBrooklyn writes:

"Not to mention that Italians are one of the highest(if not the highest) group of whites with black forefathers. I mean, even Spike said it...."

No matter what "Spike" has to say, the Italian people do not have black ancestory. Also: Interracial marriage in Italy is rare.

[ablarc]

Is Spike like Nagin?

[Ninjahedge]

No matter what "Spike" has to say, the Italian people do not have black ancestory. Also: Interracial marriage in Italy is rare.



What about Sicilians then? ;)

[Fabrizio]

No, Sicilians are definately not black.

Scroll down to, and click on: "Sicilian origins":

http://racialreality.shorturl.com/italians

[Ninjahedge]

:)

WARNING!!!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2b/Tromance.jpg/200px-Tromance.jpg

UNCENSORED FILM CLIP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU9OrGbbYnY&mode=related&search=

Clifford Worley: You're Sicilian, huh?
Coccotti: Yeah, Sicilian.
Clifford Worley: Ya know, I read a lot. Especially about things... about history. I find that s**t fascinating. Here's a fact I don't know whether you know or not. Sicilians were spawned by n-----s.
Coccotti: Come again?
Clifford Worley: It's a fact. Yeah. You see, uh, Sicilians have, uh, black blood pumpin' through their hearts. Hey, no, if eh, if eh, if you don't believe me, uh, you can look it up. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago, uh, you see, uh, the Moors conquered Sicily. And the Moors are n-----s.
Coccotti: Yes...
Clifford Worley: So you see, way back then, uh, Sicilians were like, uh, wops from Northern Italy. Ah, they all had blonde hair and blue eyes, but, uh, well, then the Moors moved in there, and uh, well, they changed the whole country. They did so much ****in' with Sicilian women, huh? That they changed the whole bloodline forever. That's why blonde hair and blue eyes became black hair and dark skin. You know, it's absolutely amazing to me to think that to this day, hundreds of years later, that, uh, that Sicilians still carry that n-----r gene. Now this...
[Coccotti busts out laughing]
Clifford Worley: No, I'm, no, I'm quoting... history. It's written. It's a fact, it's written.
Coccotti: [Laughing] I love this guy.
Clifford Worley: Your ancestors are n-----s. Uh-huh.
[Starts laughing, too]
Clifford Worley: Hey. Yeah. And, and your great-great-great-great grandmother ****ed a n-----r, ho, ho, yeah, and she had a half-n-----r kid... now, if that's a fact, tell me, am I lying? 'Cause you, you're part eggplant.
[All laugh]

They leave out the "punch line" at the end though... :o

[Fabrizio]

Yeah well, I'd rather not get my info from Hollywood scriptwriters.

[ryan]

Fascinating that Sicilians were so hated that this fake history was invented to justify it. I've heard "Black Irish" used in a similar way.

[Ninjahedge]

Which is worse?

That it was invented, or that people are still insulted by it?



/me hides "devil's advocate" badge.....

[ryan]

It's all the same hate. I just said it was interesting - the irony that it's insulting is just another layer.

[Jake]

Like I've said in my numerous "rants", Bay Ridge is in decline.


Best example is the fact that so many hirstoric Bay Ridge businesses are closing down to make way for mediocre outlet stores or another bank.

There are so many empty stores now. Even 86th st, prime real estate has a lot of empty space. Bay Ridge has simply becoming an old community and the young people move out because they can't stand all the changes.

That being said I still think it's one of the best places in Brooklyn...just not good enough anymore.

As long as the new arrivals to the area make the old residents feel like they're in foreign territory there will be racism.

[OmegaNYC]

Just got to learn to adapt. That's all. It's America, what else can you do? :confused:

[Anarchy77]

Like I've said in my numerous "rants", Bay Ridge is in decline.


Best example is the fact that so many hirstoric Bay Ridge businesses are closing down to make way for mediocre outlet stores or another bank.

There are so many empty stores now. Even 86th st, prime real estate has a lot of empty space. Bay Ridge has simply becoming an old community and the young people move out because they can't stand all the changes.

That being said I still think it's one of the best places in Brooklyn...just not good enough anymore.

As long as the new arrivals to the area make the old residents feel like they're in foreign territory there will be racism.

Back in the day, being a visitor to the neighborhood was enough to bring out the racism in the residents.

At a hs reunion a few years ago, I discovered that some of the people who grew up there moved to staten island. Like the italian versions of the jeffersons, it was "movin on up" to move to staten island; and isn't it interesting that there have been a lot of racial tensions in that burg.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

MayorOfBrooklyn writes:

"Not to mention that Italians are one of the highest(if not the highest) group of whites with black forefathers. I mean, even Spike said it...."

No matter what "Spike" has to say, the Italian people do not have black ancestory. Also: Interracial marriage in Italy is rare.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/roots/2003/10/blackhistoryromans.shtml

History is written by the victors. There have to be so much things that's unknown do to re writing.


Fascinating that Sicilians were so hated that this fake history was invented to justify it. I've heard "Black Irish" used in a similar way. There were/are black Irish also. The world didn't start with the greek.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/roots/2003/10/blackhistoryromans.shtml

History is written by the victors. There have to be so much things that's unknown do to re writing.


There were/are black Irish also. The world didn't start with the greek.I think you should re-read that article more closely. It does not support what you say.

Genetic evidence

It was recently suggested that African DNA might be found to be present in the local populations near to Hadrian's Wall.

However, this would not conclusively show that the Black Roman soldiers on the wall intermarried with the local population because of the problem of 'admixture'.

Admixture is a process whereby the DNA of a population becomes diluted over time and it cannot be shown at what period in time that dilution took place.

The article only concluded that there were Africans in Roman Italy and Britian.

It is recorded in history that there were Africans in the Roman Senate.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

I think you should re-read that article more closely. It does not support what you say.



The article only concluded that there were Africans in Roman Italy and Britian.

It is recorded in history that there were Africans in the Roman Senate.I post the article to show that there were black people in Rome and it's territories in Europe. A lot of people don't know this.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Since you quoted Fabrizio, I assumed you were refuting his statements.

In Rome, conquered people could win their freedom (although it wasn't easy), and become citizens.

One of the ways Romans assimilated other people was to incorporate their religious beliefs into their own. You find evidence of this throughout the empire.

The reason this did not work in Judea was because the Hebrews believed in one God.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Since you quoted Fabrizio, I assumed you were refuting his statements.

In Rome, conquered people could win their freedom (although it wasn't easy), and become citizens.

One of the ways Romans assimilated other people was to incorporate their religious beliefs into their own. You find evidence of this throughout the empire.

The reason this did not work in Judea was because the Hebrews believed in one God.I was. Also another way people moved up was through military rank. For Fabrizio to say no black ancestry at all is just ludacris. It's as silly as the old(and in some way current) belief/lie that all the taino people went extinct when most puerto ricans/cubans etc are taino.

[Jake]

what is the point of all this?

so there were black people in England...and?
there were white people in Africa....and?


lol

I think the basic thing that started this was the idea that Sicilians are darker because they have black ancestry. This idea is as valid as the idea that Thai people are darker than the Japanese because they have black ancestry.

People also tend to forget that Carthage was a Phoenician settlement. Phoenicians were not black. Later a Moor settlement, Moors were not exactly black either but rather Middle Eastern looking. Besides, light skinned Africans were often called white because they, in Roman eyes, comprised a group separate from central Africans who were black.

So this whole argument is pointless. Turks have lighter skin than Saudis. Spanish in the north are lighter than in the south. Italians have different skin colors because of the north south size of their country.

Jesus was not black or white, he was Palestinian....happy? :D


EDIT: To get really racist here, why do black people care so much about this? You don't get white people trying to say "well the Zulu warriors had one white ancestor" or "there was a white guy building the pyramids" I am not of Italian ancestry but this progressive attempt at portraying every country as mixed race is getting a little out of hand. Maybe southern Italians are somewhere in the middle on the Whte-----Black skin color spectrum but that doesn't mean they were Blonde guys who had a black grandfather, hence they are dark. Italians were Italians, Ethiopians were Ethiopians. The British people were BRITISH of BRITISH ancestry. In 20 years I'm gonna hear someone tell me that because I had an Austrian grandfather I might be of African ancestry. BTW, Black History Month is the most racist idea I've ever heard off...but fine...I declare 11/12 months to be White History Months from now on.

[Fabrizio]

Thank you Jake.

Italians, as a people, do NOT have black ancestory. Anthropology 101.

In fact, of the scant percentage of Black DNA that can be found among Europeans, Siclians have among the LOWEST amounts, lower than than the British.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-Saharan_DNA_admixture_in_Europe

-------------

This business, in the end, is just a rehash of the racist "one-drop" theory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jefferson/mixed/onedrop.html

[lofter1]

I declare 11/12 months to be White History Months from now on.

Nothing new about that.

[Fabrizio]

Yes, sorry ....when I say "thanks Jake" that is not including his last remark.

[OmegaNYC]

I think everyone is getting carried away here. Who cares if someone has black, white, chinese, etc, etc, etc, as a background?

In any case, what is this guy?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b1/Tigerw.jpg/200px-Tigerw.jpg

[OmegaNYC]

BTW, Black History Month is the most racist idea I've ever heard off...but fine...I declare 11/12 months to be White History Months from now on.

My greatest wish is for Black History to be intergrated into American History. That will help seperate the divide in this country.

[lofter1]

Human Race Machine (http://www.nancyburson.com/human_fr.html) by artist Nancy Burson (http://www.nancyburson.com/index.html)

http://www.wolfmanproductions.com/images/hrm.gif

[Jake]

My greatest wish is for Black History to be intergrated into American History. That will help seperate the divide in this country.

Every kid in America learns about Rosa Parks and Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. Yet very few know who Douglas MacArthur was.

I'm very serious now, open a NY History textbook, I nearly gurantee that you will find more pages dedicated to the civil rights movement of the 60s than to WW1 and WW2 combined. Now technically that's not a black issue but rather a liberal one, so I won't really push it but it does help to illustrate my point.

I don't really care all that much about it since if I want to learn about something I just get a book on it but I simply think there were much bigger things in American history than Rosa Parks. Don't get me wrong those events were absolutely essential to learn about BUT if it wasn't for Rosa Parks the US might still be a segregated country, if it wasn't for MacArthur the US might not be on a map.

I wish it was all integrated too but in a fair way and not a way that appeases one group. It's a safe bet that if I were to write a negative paper on Robert E. Lee (perhaps the most brilliant American general of the 19th century) I'd get a standing ovation, but if I were to write a negative paper on Malcom X I'd get thrown out of the class.

It's the people that always scream RACISM RACISM that actually are the racists. They fail to see that many people don't really give a damn. People didn't like OJ Simpson because he was so obviously guilty, not because he was black (BTW he wasn't obvioulsy guilty because he was black).

Now I've been arguing a lot in the above posts about black leaders but Susan B Anthony or John T Scopes aren't high on my list of "possible replacements for people who actually mattered" list.

Tiger Woods has been picked as "the most succesful African-American athlete" so many times by so many publications....HELLO! The guy is only 25% African-American! Why isn't he called the most succesful Thai athlete???

[Luca]

Re. the comments about Italian-Americans being particularly racist.

It's definitely something I've heard about, the only part of the US I spent considerable time in did not have the large Italian-American populations of the east coast so I could not verify or deny this from personal experience. I would guess that the ferocious prejudice and almost psychotic loathing that early Italian immigrants encountered in the US would tend to generate, among other things, the common reaction of finding someone even more out-of-luck to sh!t on, which in the US seems to have been blacks and, in some west-coast cases, Orientals?

Interestingly, among actual Italians (i.e. not emigrants), a common reaction to anti-Italian prejudice or ridicule is to dump on southern Italians (i.e. rather than bluntly contradict the insulting stereotypes, effectively admit that they are true, but only for the 'other' folks down south). It’s an attitude that, sadly, I've witnessed on many occasions on the part of fellow Italians. I find it very demeaning, but it is firmly entrenched among many Northeners.

[ZippyTheChimp]

It's the people that always scream RACISM RACISM that actually are the racists.I can't think of anyone who regularly posts on this forum that is more obsessed with the concept of race than you. Your screams (rants is your own description) are no different than the screams of those you denounce, except your vantage is a polar opposite.

Maybe you're looking in a mirror.

I'd be very worried if my kids exhibited the sort of views you display here, not because I think it is wrong, but because it would threaten their prospects for happiness.

Just some advice from someone who's been around a little longer than you.

[Jake]

I am a pessimist in general, but I discriminate based on behavior not skin color.
Maybe it's true I'm on the very conservative side of the political opinion spectrum but I've always felt that's a reaction to the sometimes excessive liberal influence in much of the environment I've lived in.

I obviously like people like myself more but that's just because maybe people who like the same sport or went to the same school get along better. I'd simply like some degree of professionalism from everybody. IMO people who for example dress differently are not discriminated against due to their skin color but rather because they dress differently. If the whitest looking guy in America comes in for a job interview wearing 5-size too big, camo pants, well do you think he's getting hired?

I don't like certain behaviors and I don't like ALL people who engage in them. For example I despise songs that feature the "bitches and guns" type lyrics. I think all those who religiously recite those words aren't the type of people I want to live near. There's a huge list of issues I have with people and it's a sad fact that certain cultures tend to be in those categories more than others.

I am a strong believer that it's people's will that determines their success. America is not a country that puts restrictions on anybody. Anybody can be president. Why are minorities poor? Why do they come from broken homes? It's a tough question but people shouldn't blame "white society" for their parents making bad decisions with regards to who they sleep with.

I've had a job since I was 18 years old, I haven't taken a dollar from my parents since then. I worked all day to make tuition and took classes at night because I couldn't ask my parents to give up anything for me. In that regards I consider myself to be a good person, but I was raised to be independent. Why do others grow up with this entitlement mentality? Why do certain groups pay all the taxes and collect no benefits?

I'm obsessed with this because I keep getting MY money taken out of my paycheck for things I don't think people deserve. It may be a little harder for minorities everywhere but A) suing people won't make them like you and B) yelling slavery....MLK.....discrimination won't make people hire you either. It's tough for all of us, learn to deal with it.

Everyone needs to take a hard look at Tiger Woods, Collin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, and Alberto Gonzales. Those people should be heroes, not 50 cent.

[lofter1]

America is not a country that puts restrictions on anybody.

Perhaps in theory, but reality (http://www.thinkglink.com/Redlining.asp) tells otherwise.

BROOKLYN BP GETS INSURANCE RECORDS (http://www.citylaw.org/cl_citylaw/06_marapl/report.php?ID=Brooklyn)

SBoro President sought state insurance records to prove insurance companies discriminated against Brooklyn residents. The State Insurance Department required insurance companies to gather information concerning the insurance policies they issued, renewed or cancelled, and to file annual reports with the Department. Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz requested, under the freedom of information law, the filed reports relating to auto insurance policies sold in specific Brooklyn neighborhoods. Markowitz wanted the data to expose redlining, an illegal practice by insurance companies of denying coverage or canceling policies based only on the insured’s address. The Department denied the requests, claiming that the reports contained trade secrets or information gathered from a commercial enterprise which could be kept confidential for six years and which if disclosed could cause substantial damage to the companies’ competitive position. Markowitz filed an article 78 petition, challenging the denials.

Justice Doris Ling-Cohan ordered the Department to disclose the reports, ruling that under the Department’s regulations the insurance companies’ filings were public records. All records of a public agency, such as the Department, were presumptively available for public inspection under FOIL unless they fell within one of the specific exceptions. The court rejected the notion that the data compiled contained trade secrets or that disclosure would injure competition.

Markowitz v. Serio, N.Y.L.J., Jan. 19, 2006, at 18 (N.Y.Cty.Sup.Ct.) (Ling-Cohan, J.).



Insurance Redlining ...2006Empire Justice Testifies Before the NYS Insurance Department on Homeowners Insurance Disparities and the Need for Data Disclosure (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('../../../../../OurWrk/Legislation/Consumer/State/Testimony/2006/Ins%20Dept%20Hearing%20Testimony%2002-27-2006.pdf')) - February 27, 20062005Homeowners Insurance Gap: How Race and Neighborhood Composition Explain Cost and Access Disparities in Rochester and Monroe County, New York (Executive Summary (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('../../../../../NewsPublications/ReportsPublications/2005/HomeownersInsGapExSum.pdf')), Full Report (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('../../../../../NewsPublications/ReportsPublications/2005/HomesownersInsGapFull.pdf')), Slide Show (http://javascript<b></b>:popUp('../../../../../NewsPublications/ReportsPublications/2005/Insurance%20Study%20PC%20Slide%20Show%2005-2005.ppt')))



Verizon TV Plans Stir "Redlining" DebateJoel Reidenberg in DowJones Newswire (http://law.fordham.edu/ihtml/news-2itndetails.ihtml?id=638&nid=257), April 03, 2006

[kliq6]

Forget Italians, the most racist people across the board in this country are WASP's!!!!!

[Ninjahedge]

Forget Italians, the most racist people across the board in this country are WASP's!!!!!

???

Um, what?

You are starting to segregate and categorize a large group of people based on race/religion. Careful what you start chucking around in that greenhouse there Mr.

[Anarchy77]

My greatest wish is for Black History to be intergrated into American History.

Black History is American History

-Morgan Freeman

[MrSpice]

I think all reasonable people should fight racism everywhere. You don't want anyone to have prejudice against certain people only because they look a certain way or belong to a particular religous movement, or have any kind of culture you don't know or understand.

But we have distinguish the blind racism (i.e., "I don't like black people") with the recognition that most predominantly black neighborhoods in this city and in this country are still bad neighborhoods simply because the average black person still has less money and is more likely to be unemployed than a typical white person. Seeing so many young black people being arrested for violent crimes on the local news does not improve the image of them in the eyes of many people that live in queit safe neighborhoods like Bay Ridge. I am not saying I condone racism - I don't. But when a few years back the news came out that many taxi drivers - including those who are themselves black or have a dark skin - won't pick up black passengers, people realized that it was not that the taxi drivers hated black people because they were black. They were just afraid for their safety because statistically black neighborhoods were not as safe, especially in the past (getting much better now). The same situation is happening now with arab americans at airports when people automatically profile them as being more likely to be associated with terrorism.

[OmegaNYC]

IThe same situation is happening now with arab americans at airports when people automatically profile them as being more likely to be associated with terrorism.

Like this guy?:

JFK passenger told he couldn't fly because of T-shirt


http://a.abclocal.go.com/graphics/v3/global/stockgraphics/icons/wabc_byline.gif Eyewitness News

(New York-WABC August 31, 2006) - An Arab human rights activist is considering legal action after he says he was prevented from boarding a plane at JFK Airport because of his T-shirt.
Raed Jarrar says he tried to board a JetBlue Airways flight from JFK to Oakland, California on August 12 wearing a shirt that read, "We will not be silent" in both English and Arabic. He says four officials from the airline or a government agency approached him and said he could not board with the shirt on.

Jerrar says one official told him, "Going to an airport with a T-shirt in Arabic script is like going to a bank and wearing a T-shirt that says, 'I'm a robber.'" JetBlue spokeswoman Jenny Dervin acknowledged the dispute occurred and said the airline is investigating. She noted the incident happened two days after British authorities made arrests in a suspected terror plot to blow up planes headed for the United States.
//

Jerrar, who directs the Iraq project for San Francisco-based human rights organization Global Exchange, says he refused a suggestion from the officials to turn his shirt inside out. According to Jerrar, he eventually wore a shirt given to him by the officials rather than miss his flight. He says he was also forced to give up his seat near the front and was issued a new boarding pass for a seat in the back of the plane.
The 28-year-old Jerrar is half Iraqi and half Palestinian. He moved to the United States from Jordan last year. (Copyright 2006 WABC-TV)

[lofter1]

And then we have our ever-so-wise leaders making comments like this (didn't know there were all those Jihad-loving taxi drivers in Montana) ...

Burns says terrorists drive taxis by day

yahoo.com (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060831/ap_on_el_se/burns_terrorism)
By MATT GOURAS
Associated Press Writer
Aug 31, 2:06 PM ET

BELGRADE, Mont. - Republican Sen. Conrad Burns, whose recent comments have stirred controversy, says the United States is up against a faceless enemy of terrorists who "drive taxi cabs in the daytime and kill at night."

During a fundraiser Wednesday with first lady Laura Bush, the three-term Montana senator talked about terrorism, tax cuts and the money he has brought to his state. Burns is one of the more vulnerable Senate incumbents, facing a tough challenge from Democrat Jon Tester.

He has drawn criticism in recent weeks for calling his house painter a "nice little Guatemalan man" during a June speech. Burns, whose re-election campaign is pressing for tighter immigration controls, also suggested that the man might be an illegal immigrant. The campaign later said the worker is legal.

Burns, 71, also had to apologize after confronting members of a firefighting team at the Billings airport and telling them they had done a "piss-poor job," according to a state report. In July, the Hotshot crew had traveled 2,000 miles from Staunton, Va., to help dig fire lines for about a week around a 143-square-mile wildfire east of Billings.

At the campaign event with Bush, Burns talked about the war on terrorism, saying a "faceless enemy" of terrorists "drive taxi cabs in the daytime and kill at night."

The campaign said Thursday that the senator was simply pointing out terrorists can be anywhere...

Copyright © 2006 The Associated Press

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

what is the point of all this?

so there were black people in England...and?
there were white people in Africa....and?


lol

I think the basic thing that started this was the idea that Sicilians are darker because they have black ancestry. This idea is as valid as the idea that Thai people are darker than the Japanese because they have black ancestry.

People also tend to forget that Carthage was a Phoenician settlement. Phoenicians were not black. Later a Moor settlement, Moors were not exactly black either but rather Middle Eastern looking. Besides, light skinned Africans were often called white because they, in Roman eyes, comprised a group separate from central Africans who were black.

So this whole argument is pointless. Turks have lighter skin than Saudis. Spanish in the north are lighter than in the south. Italians have different skin colors because of the north south size of their country.

Jesus was not black or white, he was Palestinian....happy? :D


EDIT: To get really racist here, why do black people care so much about this? You don't get white people trying to say "well the Zulu warriors had one white ancestor" or "there was a white guy building the pyramids" I am not of Italian ancestry but this progressive attempt at portraying every country as mixed race is getting a little out of hand. Maybe southern Italians are somewhere in the middle on the Whte-----Black skin color spectrum but that doesn't mean they were Blonde guys who had a black grandfather, hence they are dark. Italians were Italians, Ethiopians were Ethiopians. The British people were BRITISH of BRITISH ancestry. In 20 years I'm gonna hear someone tell me that because I had an Austrian grandfather I might be of African ancestry. BTW, Black History Month is the most racist idea I've ever heard off...but fine...I declare 11/12 months to be White History Months from now on.
I said Italian, not just Sicilian. I don't always trust dna exams, because the strong basis of a dna exam is to compare it to other examples, but what is really taken into account is that fact that people migrate due to all kind of reasons(war, famine, etc). So compare results to current settlement can be very misleading. "History" is being re written and even exposed everyday. People once said Jesus was white, but most know that is not the case, people once said no black ever ruled in Europe or was of high status, but we know that is not the case. People once said that the Taino people are extinct, but we know that is not the case(PR day parade anyone?). It doest matter what you would like to hear of stay the same, but was is fact and truth. To say no italians descended from Black people is completely stupid being the fact that all people descend from black people(yes, even you. all of use on this board).

You wont hear zulu having white ancestors because it's just not fact. White eyes never even saw south Africa until a couple of hundred of years ago, but the same cannot be said for black eyes seeing europe(or asain for that matter).


BTW, Black History Month is the most racist idea I've ever heard off...but fine...I declare 11/12 months to be White History Months from now on.Yes, it's far more racist then any ideas the nazi had, or the european settlers of the new(already old) world, or Columbus ideas of the native americas who keep him alive. Yes Yes, black history month is by far the worst and why stop there, why not add hispanic history month to the list.

[Fabrizio]

"I don't always trust dna exams"

Mayor: the scientific world does not care what you think.

I´ve posted link, after link, of research material proving you wrong. All you´re doing is spouting your opinions.

[Ninjahedge]

I detect a personal connection with MoB here.

MoB, "black history month" IS racist. It seperates the history of one race (or group of ancestries) from all others and then "celebrates" it.

I am all for equal rights, but pushing the pendulum too far in one direction in order to try to rebalance all the things that were tipped in the other direction before only sets it in motion. A motion that will eventually swing back and forth, hitting people standing in the middle, until all we are left with is a bunch of people on the fringe expressing the most radical ideas of any given viewpoint.

That eventually leads to war.

What we need is an attempt to buffer the situation, not shove back at what we each feel is pressing us. CARRY the weight back to the center rather than just shoving it away from us! Until we do this, we will always have someone who is hurt in the process.


As for Jesus being White, he was a middle eastern Jew. A fact that I have not really heard anyone talk about at all. I am tired of seeing the white bearded jesus from Iowa on the walls of homes and churches, and I am tired of seeng an angry group of black men dressed in what they believe to be their own ancestral/cultural clothing shouting that he was black.

He was neither.

Now, as for all whites having black ancestry? That is a crock as well. Theory has it that mankind originated, or was first evolved in messopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. I believe Iraq is on most of that land now. We then split up into different areas of the world, and evolved slightly to accomodate ourselves to the climates we lived in.

So saying all whites came from blacks, and that no Zulu has any white in him is being blindly racist. We are all derived from about the same stock, middle eastern in a way, and have our own characteristics that differentiate us slightly based on a heartbeat of time on the evolutionary scale.

So relax with your arguement there. And PLEASE do not bring up the whole crock of Nazi-ism into an arguement that does not fit it too well (yet). Comparing racism to Nazi-ism is fair enough, but you made a one or two step jump by doing a direct comparison of the complaint of BHM to it. There was no filler!

"You think BHM is racist??? Yeah, well it is much more racist than the Nazi's!!!!"

Extranious exaggeration that proves nothing.

Try "Godwin's Law" when you have the chance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

"I don't always trust dna exams"

Mayor: the scientific world does not care what you think.

I´ve posted link, after link, of research material proving you wrong. All you´re doing is spouting your opinions.

I provided a link also. You would think if a emperor of rome was black, that at least some of the people had to be black also. Like i said, historian/scientist also use to say the taino indians were extinct but we all know that to be a lie.


I detect a personal connection with MoB here.

MoB, "black history month" IS racist. It seperates the history of one race (or group of ancestries) from all others and then "celebrates" it.

I am all for equal rights, but pushing the pendulum too far in one direction in order to try to rebalance all the things that were tipped in the other direction before only sets it in motion. A motion that will eventually swing back and forth, hitting people standing in the middle, until all we are left with is a bunch of people on the fringe expressing the most radical ideas of any given viewpoint.

That eventually leads to war.

What we need is an attempt to buffer the situation, not shove back at what we each feel is pressing us. CARRY the weight back to the center rather than just shoving it away from us! Until we do this, we will always have someone who is hurt in the process. I really dont care for black history month, but you have to be insane to think it's racist. Whats next, B.E.T is racist because whites wouldn't be able to make W.E.T? It's called Abc/Nbc/Cbs/ etc etc etc. Black history and the month was created to counter the lack of black history being taught(same as hispanic history/ and asian history month). Im pretty damn sure if black/latin/asian history was included in american/european history from the jump then all the different section wouldn't have been created. Whats racist, is the Columbus day(Now that's racist).

As for Jesus being White, he was a middle eastern Jew. A fact that I have not really heard anyone talk about at all. I am tired of seeing the white bearded jesus from Iowa on the walls of homes and churches, and I am tired of seeng an angry group of black men dressed in what they believe to be their own ancestral/cultural clothing shouting that he was black.

He was neither.

Now, as for all whites having black ancestry? That is a crock as well. Theory has it that mankind originated, or was first evolved in messopotamia between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. I believe Iraq is on most of that land now. We then split up into different areas of the world, and evolved slightly to accomodate ourselves to the climates we lived in.

So saying all whites came from blacks, and that no Zulu has any white in him is being blindly racist. We are all derived from about the same stock, middle eastern in a way, and have our own characteristics that differentiate us slightly based on a heartbeat of time on the evolutionary scale.

So relax with your arguement there. And PLEASE do not bring up the whole crock of Nazi-ism into an arguement that does not fit it too well (yet). Comparing racism to Nazi-ism is fair enough, but you made a one or two step jump by doing a direct comparison of the complaint of BHM to it. There was no filler!

"You think BHM is racist??? Yeah, well it is much more racist than the Nazi's!!!!"

Extranious exaggeration that proves nothing.

Try "Godwin's Law" when you have the chance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law) Actually you're wrong. The modern belief is held that mankind originated in africa, and civilization have it's roots in Mesopotamia(debatable), so you're off by a couple of thousands or million(whatever you believe) years off. Now, it's being debated who were those inhabitant of mesopotamia, was it the people who are there now or are they just he recent settlers. People believe that the ancient Babylonian were
from the same people as modern day Ethiopians. So yes, my point still stand(much to you're dislike im sure)

O and the Jesus part, ehhh. I know he wasn't italian and from bay ridge(the topic).

[Ninjahedge]

I really don't care for black history month, but you have to be insane to think it's racist. Whats next, B.E.T is racist because whites wouldn't be able to make W.E.T?

Nope, I never said that.

WET would be just as RACIST as BET. We are separating by color of skin and even NAMING THE STATION ACCORDING TO THE RACE DEMOGRAPHIC!!!

If that is not separation and description according to race, I don't know what would be.

It's called Abc/Nbc/Cbs/ etc etc etc.

That has NOTHING to do with BET. Would it be appropriate to have "J"ET or "N"ET? Siting the NATIONAL Broadcast company as a validation for the BLACK Entertainment Television network is way off base.

Black history and the month was created to counter the lack of black history being taught(same as hispanic history/ and asian history month). Im pretty damn sure if black/latin/asian history was included in american/european history from the jump then all the different section wouldn't have been created. Whats racist, is the Columbus day(Now that's racist).[/SIZE]

???

You are getting weird here. You do not "counter" something by the mutual exclusion of others or the featuring of the "excluded" item. That only unbalances the whole thing. You work to make Black History a part of history in general. You highlight the people that were important to the founding and development of the country and do not bend over backwards to over-emphasize something in order to counteract either past wrongs or perceived current unbalances.

It is just not a feasible SOLUTION to the disparity. It is like dunking someone in a bath of ice-water if they were burning. Sure it will put out the fire, but you could also kill them from system shock, or later with hypothermia.

As for Columbus Day, you are getting silly. He was an explorer that was one of the first Europeans to discover, document and do other things in the US. How i is racist is beyond me.

Now mind you, I do not go into the whole nationality with this holiday. I just believe he was a well known explorer that has gotten a lot of merit, and has a holiday that most companies do not recognize as a day to give you off from work... ;)

[quote]Actually you're wrong. The modern belief is held that mankind originated in africa, and civilization have it's roots in Mesopotamia(debatable), so you're off by a couple of thousands or million(whatever you believe) years off. Now, it's being debated who were those inhabitant of mesopotamia, was it the people who are there now or are they just he recent settlers. People believe that the ancient Babylonian were from the same people as modern day Ethiopians. So yes, my point still stand(much to you're dislike im sure)

WTF are you spouting now man? Seriously, do you have some sort of agenda stick rammed up in there somewhere? You are turning this personal, stop it now.

If you are going to come in here and start causing trouble do us all the favor of looking up some of these contrary references and show us the links.

Whether you are right or wrong right now really does not matter to me anymore because your way of shoving it in people's faces as if they were trying to fight you on it is really not ingratiating.

O and the Jesus part, ehhh. I know he wasn't italian and from bay ridge(the topic).

Duh. But every race out there has tried to make their Lord, Master and or Savior the same race as they are, which is ironically untrue for most of the people that follow those religions.

So whatever.....

[Fabrizio]

Actually, I´m glad to be a "bro".

I thought I could NEVER be this fabulous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePeMLcUDPxI

[ablarc]

Tedious and pointless "discussion."

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Nope, I never said that.

WET would be just as RACIST as BET. We are separating by color of skin and even NAMING THE STATION ACCORDING TO THE RACE DEMOGRAPHIC!!!

If that is not separation and description according to race, I don't know what would be.



That has NOTHING to do with BET. Would it be appropriate to have "J"ET or "N"ET? Siting the NATIONAL Broadcast company as a validation for the BLACK Entertainment Television network is way off base.


???

You are getting weird here. You do not "counter" something by the mutual exclusion of others or the featuring of the "excluded" item. That only unbalances the whole thing. You work to make Black History a part of history in general. You highlight the people that were important to the founding and development of the country and do not bend over backwards to over-emphasize something in order to counteract either past wrongs or perceived current unbalances.

It is just not a feasible SOLUTION to the disparity. It is like dunking someone in a bath of ice-water if they were burning. Sure it will put out the fire, but you could also kill them from system shock, or later with hypothermia.

Yes, because black history month kill people:rolleyes: . I mean lets be serious, what you say sounds nice and dandy and may be more of a reality now, but when black history month was created everybody was still being taught this unbalanced distorted view of history. So "bending over backward" seem to have been very necessary, because million of children were going up think black people didn't so jack but pick cotton.

As for Columbus Day, you are getting silly. He was an explorer that was one of the first Europeans to discover, document and do other things in the US. How i is racist is beyond me.

He was a murderer, and the holiday is very racist. Columbus is celebrated as discovering america even tho the americas were already inhabited, but i guess they didn't count.

"for all are young and beautiful,
bodies painted, manner friendly. I think that they will make good slaves"-Columbus





WTF are you spouting now man? Seriously, do you have some sort of agenda stick rammed up in there somewhere? You are turning this personal, stop it now.

If you are going to come in here and start causing trouble do us all the favor of looking up some of these contrary references and show us the links.


http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20050214/oldesthuman.html

Nobody trying to shove anything in your face, if you are defensive because i don't share the same view as you on this matter then you can click the red x at the top of the screen. And who is this "us"?