Unleashed Dogs

[citybirder]

I am posting regarding a very contentious issue in most city parks. New York City health code stipulates that all dogs must be leashed when in a public place. In addition to local and state laws the ASPCA, Humane Society, American Kennel Club and the Center for Disease Control recommend leashing ones dog in public for, among many reasons, the protection of the animal.

Juniper Park Civic Association has set-up an online petition to compel the City of New York to enforce the current leash law in city parks. Dog owners unleashing their dogs in public places has caused numerous problems to people, dogs, wildlife and property. The detrimental effects of unleashed dogs in public places has only been aggravated by city officials encouraging scofflaws. This is not just about unleashed dogs in Queens, it's about all of NYC. The city needs more fenced dog runs.

I urge anyone who has ever had a family member, pet or, they themselves, harassed, endangered or injured by unleashed dogs to sign the online petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Juniper2/petition.html

You might also want to check out another blog set-up to document the problem, as well as, provide useful informational links:

http://brooklynparks.blogspot.com/

Please pass the information along to as many people as possible.

Thanks for your time.

[Ninjahedge]

I really do not care.

I find those extendable "trip me" leashes more annoying thana free dog.

There are always exceptions to a rule, and it is hard for a law to say "you must tie up Fido (golden retriever) when you want to play ball with him in the park.

I think that policemen should use their judgement and make their calls on some dogs in the park. They see an owner chucking his dog a ball on the softball fields in CP, so be it. He sees a guy letting his pit bull run around with a bunch of sunbathers in the park, well, that is a no-no.

It should just be known that if you are asked to leash your dog (by an officer or park official), you are obligated to do so by law and the penalty for disobeying it is going to cost you.





I would not want to forbid the trained russel terrier from doing frisbee grabs. It is part of what makes NY NY!

[krulltime]

There are always exceptions to a rule, and it is hard for a law to say "you must tie up Fido (golden retriever) when you want to play ball with him in the park.

I think that policemen should use their judgement and make their calls on some dogs in the park. They see an owner chucking his dog a ball on the softball fields in CP, so be it. He sees a guy letting his pit bull run around with a bunch of sunbathers in the park, well, that is a no-no.


Not fair. I have a Pitbull and he has been off the leash in Central Park and Riverside Park and he has not attack nobody. All he wants to do is lick people. It is the way you raised your dog that determines if your dog will attack. If is a dog that has been kept in an apartment almost forever and then someone takes him/her to a park and unleashed the dog.... there is probability that the dog will attack (which sadly people tend to do with Pitballs, among other dogs, even a golden retriever). . My dog has been exposed to too many people. I wouldnt want a policeman 'breed profiling' about my dog. It is kind of like the police doing racial profiling.

[TonyO]

The leash laws have been relaxed between 9pm and 9am for 20 years. A dog by its nature needs to run that walking on a leash does not fill the need for. The organizations you quote surely did not base their opinions on this issue and its downright deceptive to include them in your effort to end off-leash times.

Here is the site to sign in favor of keeping the same off-leash times:

http://petitionspot.com/petitions/offleashpetition



And more info on DOG-NYC:

http://www.nycdog.org/index.html

[lofter1]

For those really little "dogs" (leashed or not) I find that a good swift side-kick keeps them out of my way ;)

[stache]

Laws need to be enforced equally. It's not fair to the dog to keep it in the city

[TonyO]

Laws need to be enforced equally.

Taking away the off-leash times, which have disaffected few apparently, doesn't make sense with 1.5 million dogs estimated living here.

It's not fair to the dog to keep it in the city.

You shouldn't have a dog in the city if that's your opinion. I have a dog that was going to be put to sleep and I think his life is far better than it would have been otherwise. We get out to the country once every few months, but the early morning off-leash times are when he can let off some steam.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war.

[krulltime]

http://www.rivertowns.net/rustad/xru007.gif

[Ninjahedge]

Not fair. I have a Pitbull and he has been off the leash in Central Park and Riverside Park and he has not attack nobody. All he wants to do is lick people.

That is great, but I have heard of no Golden Retreiver attacks in my life.

I mean, those retreivers are VISCIOUS!!!

Have you seen those packs of chocolate labs terrorizing the East Village!!?!?!?

It is the way you raised your dog that determines if your dog will attack. If is a dog that has been kept in an apartment almost forever and then someone takes him/her to a park and unleashed the dog.... there is probability that the dog will attack (which sadly people tend to do with Pitballs, among other dogs, even a golden retriever).

Like I said, I have never heard of a GR attack. I have heard of attacks by German Shepherds, Pit Bulls, and other defensive dogs that were originally bred for their protective and/or aggressive behavior.

The other concern is how much damage could the dog in question do if they DID attack. I don't know about you, but I would be more worried about your dog than a Jack Russel even if the JR was a trained assasin-dog working for the CIA.

So long as he was not a fluffy bunny with really sharp teeth. I am all out of holy hand-grenades.

My dog has been exposed to too many people. I wouldnt want a policeman 'breed profiling' about my dog. It is kind of like the police doing racial profiling.

Ahhh, no.

Now you are anthropomorphizing (sp) them. They are Dogs. Until humans can be deliberately bred with that much variation, please spare us with the comparison to humans and race.

Dogs do differ, unless you are saying thata pomeranian has the same personality/behavior as your pit-bull.......

[Ninjahedge]

For those really little "dogs" (leashed or not) I find that a good swift side-kick keeps them out of my way ;)

You love those foofer-dogs too?

They are SO well trained!!! :p

[ZippyTheChimp]

The 2005 American Temperment Test Society (http://www.atts.org/) test results for the Pitt Bull were 84.7% compared to a 81.2% average for all dog breeds (higher the number, the less aggressive).

Pitt Bulls are not a good choice for guard dogs - too friendly.
Their jaws do not lock when they bite down.

Petey, the vicious Pit Bull (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.php)

[TonyO]

The 2005 American Temperment Test Society (http://www.atts.org/) test results for the Pitt Bull were 84.7% compared to a 81.2% average for all dog breeds (higher the number, the less aggressive).

Pitt Bulls are not a good choice for guard dogs - too friendly.
Their jaws do not lock when they bite down.

Petey, the vicious Pit Bull (http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pete.php)

Its true that pit bulls are often very friendly to people. Other dogs, however, is another story as is true with terriers in general. I know, I have one. :)

[CMANDALA]

http://www.amny.com/news/opinion/

Dog exercise
August 7, 2006

Your article on leash laws illustrated some major misconceptions potential dog guardians have ('Dog Fight,' Aug. 4).

One of the Q and A respondents claimed enforcement of leash laws would cause "... a lot of people to not get a dog. I live in a studio. (Being off-leash) is critical for the well-being of a dog."

Not true. Dogs all over the country do very well living in apartments and being walked on a leash. Another stated she "would have to move out of the city. No dog can be well-behaved without enough exercise."

Both statements are incorrect. I am in favor of dog parks; but to imply that the only 'real' exercise a dog gets is off-leash is ridiculous.

--Kiley Blackman, Animal Defenders of Westchester


Keep them on the leash
August 7, 2006

In your story about dog leash laws on Friday, you included opinions of five readers -- all dog owners -- leading to a one-sided conclusion. From the view of someone who does not have a dog, I think the law is great for the city.

I understand that dog owners want freedom for their pets, but for those who aren't dog-lovers, we'd rather not let these animals have free reign to sniff, scratch or bite us as we enjoy time in city parks.

Having a dog is your own preference, but for the sake of everyone, they should be kept on leashes.

--Chris Cregan Ellis, Manhattan




Designate no-leash areas

August 7, 2006

The day before Thanksgiving, in Central Park, two large, unleashed dogs rammed into the back of my legs and knocked me down on my face. My arms were badly bruised, and one knee still gives me problems.

Every morning, dog owners take over the park between 81st and 86th streets. Because of the reservoir and the Ramble, you have to detour at least 10 blocks to cross the park.

Setting aside limited areas away from pedestrian paths to be dog runs during the early morning would be safer and fairer for people, and allow dogs to exercise.

--Marian Swerdlow, Manhattan

[lofter1]

At the risk of bringing the wrath of Anubis down upon me ...

Me loves the doggies (for the most part), however ...

Why aren't Dog Owners responsible for and required to finance any and all dog-related amenities in the city? Including dog runs and "leash free zones" (which would of course have to be fenced and maintained)?

The only benefit that these amenities hold for non-dog owners is that they keep the doggies out of our way. So why should any of the costs for same be borne by non-owners?

And ... What is it about "Curb Your Dog" that dog owners don't understand?

The CURB is the area at the edge of the sidewalk where it drops down into the gutter -- the place where refuse of all types is washed away. The CURB doesn't include the sides of buildings, trees, flower beds, stacks of bagged trash or bicycles ;)

So please, show some respect and consideration for your fellow city dwellers and direct your doggie to the CURB.

[Ninjahedge]

Loft, I do not know if curbing your dog means to keep them, literally, on the curb, but more to keep them in control and close to your side.

Such as "curbing your enthusiasm". I do not see people walking out and putting their enthusiasm on the curb when they are told to do that (not even on enthusiasm recycling day!).

I do, however, agree with your "do not piss on everything" rule. I have chastised dog owners that have let their dog piss on just about anything (front steps, garbage bags, etc.)

Leave it to the curb, trees, and other items and not the ones that people have to touch and use.

Only problem with tree-pissing is that I have seen quite a few trees DIE because of the overabundance of piss in their soil.



Now, as for walking times and free-leash times... That is a difficult one. I think some free-leash would be interesting though. As for dog-runs and paying for them... Well maybe they should do the same thing as with the beach. The dogs should get a special license to be able to use the runs. This will be a yearly fee, and the money would go to the care and maintenance of the run.

Also, the users would be responsible for keeping it clean or face possible ticketing.

What they need to do is have a section of it where the dogs can go, and a larger section where they can play. Then the owners would have to be trained on how to use it properly.

All the runs in Hoboken are too small and remind me of sandy piss-boxes that I would be kind of afraid to bring my pooch (if I had one) to. They really need to look into how to address this and what issues are really at stake here.

[TonyO]

At the risk of bringing the wrath of Anubis down upon me ...

Me loves the doggies (for the most part), however ...

Why aren't Dog Owners responsible for and required to finance any and all dog-related amenities in the city? Including dog runs and "leash free zones" (which would of course have to be fenced and maintained)?

The only benefit that these amenities hold for non-dog owners is that they keep the doggies out of our way. So why should any of the costs for same be borne by non-owners?

And ... What is it about "Curb Your Dog" that dog owners don't understand?

The CURB is the area at the edge of the sidewalk where it drops down into the gutter -- the place where refuse of all types is washed away. The CURB doesn't include the sides of buildings, trees, flower beds, stacks of bagged trash or bicycles ;)

So please, show some respect and consideration for your fellow city dwellers and direct your doggie to the CURB.

There are many taxpayer paid activities that don't apply to everyone: bikepaths, pools, etc. but they make the quality of life in the city better. Having happy dogs/owners is a good thing.

That said, I live by Tompkins Square park and the renovations to the dog run there are paid for by the dog-community, as was true with another dog run in the LES I used to frequent.

Curbing is a good idea all around.

[krulltime]

That is great, but I have heard of no Golden Retreiver attacks in my life.

I mean, those retreivers are VISCIOUS!!!

Have you seen those packs of chocolate labs terrorizing the East Village!!?!?!?



Like I said, I have never heard of a GR attack. I have heard of attacks by German Shepherds, Pit Bulls, and other defensive dogs that were originally bred for their protective and/or aggressive behavior.

The other concern is how much damage could the dog in question do if they DID attack. I don't know about you, but I would be more worried about your dog than a Jack Russel even if the JR was a trained assasin-dog working for the CIA.

So long as he was not a fluffy bunny with really sharp teeth. I am all out of holy hand-grenades.



Ahhh, no.

Now you are anthropomorphizing (sp) them. They are Dogs. Until humans can be deliberately bred with that much variation, please spare us with the comparison to humans and race.

Dogs do differ, unless you are saying thata pomeranian has the same personality/behavior as your pit-bull.......


Hmmm... whatever you want to believe, but the perception you have about Pitbulls is very untrue... here take a vistit to this website... maybe it will change your mind...

http://www.realpitbull.com/

[i_commit_sins]

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These are all the dog runs in new york city, and each dog needs a license to enter and dog owners have to pay a fee.

And for the sake of pit bulls, I do not think ANY domestic animal is aggressive or dangerous unless it was taught or has 'known' those kind of feelings before :) so no, not all pit bulls are mean!

[Ninjahedge]

Threat = (Inherent Behavior +Training)*Potential Damage

When Training info is not available Training = +/-Past History

Thing is, the radical example would be the GR. Arguably the world worst guard dog, unless a burgular or mugger was allergic, then the dog could be deadly.

Bottom line is, just about everyone you hear being vocal on this issue in the press or at neighborhood meetings is usually wrong in some way based on their own bias.

I feel for the woman who got knocked down, but what if she was hit by a kid instead of a dog? Should all kids be confined to "Kiddie runs" and have to get permits to use them, or should more responsibility be put in the hands of the Parents/Owners?

I think the latter, but the only problem with that being, living in a city of so many, you will always have a few that will pose a risk to the general community due to their negligence, or deliberate intent, so there has to be some form of rule out there that can be brought up ("Broken Taillight") if a problem occurs.

I don't know. It is all very difficult to delineate.

Now if all dogs were Tim Allen...... well, they would all be drunk at bars, but that is another story..... ;)

[Dagrecco82]

Hmmm... whatever you want to believe, but the perception you have about Pitbulls is very untrue... here take a vistit to this website... maybe it will change your mind...

http://www.realpitbull.com/

I agree, my sister got deployed to Iraq (she's in the Army) and we took in her 2 month old Pit Bull. We were all very apprehensive about the dog and it's interaction with us and our 2 other dogs, basically based on the stories we've all heard. We were all very scared of having that dog over but we couldn't possibly refuse my sister, afterall, it's not like she was going on vacation. Our minds were blown away by this dog. I've never seen such a sweet,loyal, and obediant dog in all the breeds I've encountered. I was flabbergasted by the way the dog behaved around children. My perseption was toally blown away, to the point where I want to get myself a pitt bull.

[Edward]

It's not fair to the dog to keep it in the city

But do you think it is fair to keep humans in the concrete boxes and suffocate them with exhaust fumes, and stuff them in the overcrowded train with no AC? Perhaps the city should be made livable, both for dogs and humans.

[krulltime]

Dog wars unleashed


By LAUREN JOHNSTON
August 2, 2006

It's a bitter barking battle that has divided communities across the five boroughs: Should dogs be free to run without a leash in public city parks?

One Queens community group says no, and its members have filed a lawsuit against the parks department that could spell the end of off-leash hours, which run 9 p.m. to 9 a.m. in most parks.

The Juniper Park Civic Association, headquartered in Middle Village, says dogs on the loose break the law, pose a threat of attack and scare people from spaces intended for public recreation.

"The dog owners care nothing about the people around them who may be afraid of dogs," said JPCA president Robert Holden.

Under city health codes, dogs must be on a leash that is no longer than six feet at all times. The parks department, however, unofficially has allowed the off-leash "accommodation hours" for about 20 years.

Stories about dog bites and intimidation pushed Holden to file a formal suit, he said.

The parks department has two dog attacks on record for Juniper Valley Park during the last five years, and the city health department reports dog bites are down from about 40,000 in the 1960s to about 5,000 in 2003.

A win for the JPCA would put the city's 1.4 million dogs on a full-time tether – eliminating the free-wheeling runs and romps their owners consider vital to a pup's well-being.

"The more natural environment the dog has," said Anthony Chiappelloni, a founder of the dog group FIDO (Fellowship in the Interest of Dogs and their Owners), "the better he is mentally and physically because he's really being a dog – he's not just being walked around a block."

A Queens judge has adjourned the case until Aug. 29 -- instructing Parks and JPCA to find a compromise or go to trial. The parks department declined to comment because the case is pending.

Dog groups such as NYCDOG, an umbrella organization for about 35 groups with 20,000 members including FIDO and the newly formed Juniper Park Dog Association, are biting back with leaflets, message boards and a frenzied petition campaign to protect off-leash areas.

If the dogs lose -- parks lose too, said Chiappelloni, citing the positive effects canine emancipation has had in Prospect Park – FIDO's home base and the city's largest off-leash area.

"Before FIDO," said Chiappelloni, "people wouldn't even come to this park. They were afraid. But once they saw the dog people here, they started coming and jogging and then the bicyclists came. It set off a chain reaction."

Holden's group maintains unleashed dogs are unpredictable and never really under owner control. "How can you have control over an unleashed dog unless you can outrun them," he said.

FIDO president Mary McInerney said a loss of the off-leash hours would be enough to send her packing.

"If I have to keep them on the street all the time, I'd pack up and go," she said. "It does mean that much to me."


Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.

[nycoffleash]

Find out more about the 20-year NYC Parks Department policy of dog offleash courtesy hours:

NYCoffleash.com (http://www.nycoffleash.com)

[nycoffleash]

Learn about the successful 20-year Offleash Hours policy in NYC parks:

NYCoffleash.com (http://www.nycoffleash.com)

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
Please do not bump threads.

[citybirder]

I thought that you'd be interested in the following information. There is a new, moderated Yahoo Group just set-up to help solve the unleashed dog problem in the city parks. You are invited to join the group and share your experiences, ideas, photos, links, suggestions, etc.:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nyconleash/

Joining is easy and it is moderated to keep objectionable comments and individuals off the list. Feel free to forward this to other interested parties.

[TonyO]

There is a new, moderated Yahoo Group just set-up to help solve the unleashed dog problem in the city parks.

Dogs off-leash for (effectively) two hours of sunlight in the early morning is not a "problem".

[nycoffleash]

Readers should be aware that Citybirder is the proxy/Web mouthpiece of the infamous Juniper Park Civic Association, the embattled unelected private civic group in Moddle Village Queens suing the parks department to end the 20-year policy of Offleash Hours in NYC Parks.

For more information about the 20-year successful Offleash Hours policy, visit www.nycoffleash.com (http://www.nycoffleash.com).

To support Offleash Hours in NYC parks, sign the online petition at: http://www.nycoffleash.com/html/petition.htm