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Gregory Tenenbaum
September 12th, 2006, 04:40 AM
Life for some people of Grimsby, United Kingdom is interesting.

The culture of "CHAVS" who turned Burberry from a mutli million dollar business into a kitsch label that people are now afraid to wear for fears of looking like "chavs" is fascinating.

There are chav towns and centres all around London and the UK as seen from this website: http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/index.php

This fascinating docu-drama that aired on the BBC about 2 Chavs in the town of Grimsby gives some indication of life in a "chav-town" in the UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kd7HRH6ODU

Enjoy it, Yeah?

Luca
September 12th, 2006, 12:51 PM
Look at my fayce..do ah look bovvered?

Yeh bu'..naw bu'..yeh bu'




Hey Greggy, what's the deal with your UK 'thing'? Did a copper give you a cavity search once?Were you turned down by too many lasses? there's a real animus there under the jibes....Enquiring minds want to know!!! :) :p :D

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 13th, 2006, 03:53 AM
Hi Lucca. Yes I am interested in the UK culture. Its fascinating how people there "200 years after the transportation to the colonies age" can be so stratified and talk so openly talk about class. No cavity searches or UK girls turning me down* but I do have a fascination of the English gents and ladies that I meet like I do with say carnival folk (Carnies), eccentric, interesting and Great Entertainment!

Just search the web for some forums that talk about English expats who are living in Scotland or Wales or Ireland. They talk about open racism towards them (and towards the inhabitants of their new countries). There is a reason for that - The English Crown raped and killed their neighbours for over 800 years.

Can you imagine that Ireland needed to go to war with England in the 1920s to be able to get rid of the English government and control their own country? I find that astounding! And the English thought that Ireland would collapse without them there. That is supreme arrogance at a time when colonialism should have been a thing of the past.

And then if you are "a ginger" (ginger coloured hair) and walk down a street in London it is not uncommon that people will openly insult you for being a Celt. It hasn't happened to me because I dont have ginger hair and don't live there - my family escaped 150 years ago (Thank the Almighty).

The Chav culture is very interesting. It is a small component of the UK but it's there.

Amazing how people who spend 1000s of pounds on Burberry clothing with the distinctive tan coloured tartan cant wear it now. Because every chav in the UK is wearing identical fake Burberry and the rich dont want to be associated with the chavs. This has led to a dramatic decline of Burberry sales. Amazing how a few chavs can bring down (what was once) a fashion empire.

The Chav culture is very interesting. It is a small component of the UK but it's there.

Amazing how people who spend 1000s of pounds on Burberry clothing with the distinctive tan coloured tartan cant wear it now. Because every chav in the UK is wearing identical fake Burberry and the rich dont want to be associated with the chavs. This has led to a dramatic decline of Burberry sales. Amazing how a few chavs can bring down (what was once) a fashion empire.

PS * I don't usually date UK women. Once you've dated some elegant slavic girls (who speak more than just 1 language and who dont feel the need to eat food like us Westerners) its hard to go back.

nick-taylor
September 14th, 2006, 10:06 AM
Hi Lucca. Yes I am interested in the UK culture. Its fascinating how people there "200 years after the transportation to the colonies age" can be so stratified and talk so openly talk about class. No cavity searches or UK girls turning me down* but I do have a fascination of the English gents and ladies that I meet like I do with say carnival folk (Carnies), eccentric, interesting and Great Entertainment!

Just search the web for some forums that talk about English expats who are living in Scotland or Wales or Ireland. They talk about open racism towards them (and towards the inhabitants of their new countries). There is a reason for that - The English Crown raped and killed their neighbours for over 800 years.

Can you imagine that Ireland needed to go to war with England in the 1920s to be able to get rid of the English government and control their own country? I find that astounding! And the English thought that Ireland would collapse without them there. That is supreme arrogance at a time when colonialism should have been a thing of the past.

And then if you are "a ginger" (ginger coloured hair) and walk down a street in London it is not uncommon that people will openly insult you for being a Celt. It hasn't happened to me because I dont have ginger hair and don't live there - my family escaped 150 years ago (Thank the Almighty).

The Chav culture is very interesting. It is a small component of the UK but it's there.

Amazing how people who spend 1000s of pounds on Burberry clothing with the distinctive tan coloured tartan cant wear it now. Because every chav in the UK is wearing identical fake Burberry and the rich dont want to be associated with the chavs. This has led to a dramatic decline of Burberry sales. Amazing how a few chavs can bring down (what was once) a fashion empire.

The Chav culture is very interesting. It is a small component of the UK but it's there.

Amazing how people who spend 1000s of pounds on Burberry clothing with the distinctive tan coloured tartan cant wear it now. Because every chav in the UK is wearing identical fake Burberry and the rich dont want to be associated with the chavs. This has led to a dramatic decline of Burberry sales. Amazing how a few chavs can bring down (what was once) a fashion empire.

PS * I don't usually date UK women. Once you've dated some elegant slavic girls (who speak more than just 1 language and who dont feel the need to eat food like us Westerners) its hard to go back.I wouldn't call it a fascination, but a seemingly morbid fetish that needs to be cut out.

And I don't think you can be talking about conquering and killing when the US afterall has been doing the same. The Native Americans weren't for instance a part of a willing genocide.

Interesting to point out that there is a growing movement in the UK and Ireland itself to re-unite under a common banner. As someone who is half Irish and half English, but a British citizen I welcome it!

My girlfriend has ginger hair - and? And the insult for having ginger hair isn't because of being celtic, but because its a different colour from the 'normal' blonde and brunette.

And if it isn't harsh enough for you - Burberry sales have been growing strongly (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5171570.stm) at 19%. You can thank demand in Asia for that.

May I suggest that you stop relying upon Wikipedia and actually make a visit to Britain for once. That and actually do some research before posting.

The chip on your shoulder is obvious and does a great dis-credit to the good nature of the other New Yorker forumers who don't make things up.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 15th, 2006, 02:25 AM
I wouldn't call it a fascination, but a seemingly morbid fetish that needs to be cut out.

And I don't think you can be talking about conquering and killing when the US afterall has been doing the same. The Native Americans weren't for instance a part of a willing genocide.

Interesting to point out that there is a growing movement in the UK and Ireland itself to re-unite under a common banner. As someone who is half Irish and half English, but a British citizen I welcome it!

My girlfriend has ginger hair - and? And the insult for having ginger hair isn't because of being celtic, but because its a different colour from the 'normal' blonde and brunette.

And if it isn't harsh enough for you - Burberry sales have been growing strongly (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5171570.stm) at 19%. You can thank demand in Asia for that.

May I suggest that you stop relying upon Wikipedia and actually make a visit to Britain for once. That and actually do some research before posting.

The chip on your shoulder is obvious and does a great dis-credit to the good nature of the other New Yorker forumers who don't make things up.

Nick how about settling the **** down. How about posting something about Chav culture in the UK after viewing the documentary. Dont give us vitriol - give us some insights.

The business about being a ginger is more than just being red haired. You know that in London people commonly call scots and irish "gingers" - I have spent enough time there and know enough London people to know this. I didnt know about some kind of Pan-Celtic movement accross Britain and Ireland if that is what you are talking about. "Pan-Britannic" makes no sense as Ireland is not part of Great Britain.

The issue of Britain in Ireland really does deserve another topic. But as you have raised it please understand that people are not so ignorant so as not to know what the Norman British did in Ireland, (also Scotland and Wales) for the last 800 years.

In the meantime, here's an article on Burberry vs the Chavs and how Burberry had to abandon its traditional designs for fear of the chavs eroding its image. Speaking Japanese I cannot recall any of my Japanese girl friends who already have 4 Louis Vuitton bags and who are looking for something different to buy (eg Burberry, Coach etc) knowing about the UK Chav Phenomena myself.

nick-taylor
September 15th, 2006, 07:03 AM
Touched a nerve have I! :laugh:

Yet I did give you insights; insights into your flawed ideas of what happens in the UK. What exactly is your fascination with the UK though; you haven't explained really why! I bet its something really humiliating - I could actually imagine you (and I bet others have imagined something along these lines) that you were jilted at the altar by your best man (a charming Brit) running off with your not-to-be wife who ended up being pregnant wit your best man's child!

No I don't know that most people in London call Scots and Irish "gingers". I simply think you're getting your wires confused - having ginger hair is the insult, not being Scottish or Irish with ginger hair.

I don't even believe that you have been to the UK, let alone anyone from London - your inaccuracies throughout your post history are glarringly obvious.

Where would it be a pan-celtic/pan-britannic movement. Its based more upon Ireland joining the UK to have a larger say in EU affairs. Personally I'd swap Ireland for Scotland; nicer country, nicer people and better future.

And? I'm half Irish and? The vast majority of people don't have a mindset stuck 800 years in the past and are more concerned with the present and future circumstances. I'd also add that surely you are contradicting yourself - because Britain is England, Wales and Scotland. Britain attacking itself - you surely meant England attacking Wales and Scotland and Ireland. :laugh:

Still relegated by the fact that sales figures for Burberry are growing eh? :laugh:

Prada I should note is now the in-chav fashion. Infact buying authentic Prada clothes and having price tags attached to them is the 'in thing'. Louis Vuitton is next I suspect.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 15th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Touched a nerve have I! :laugh:

Yet I did give you insights; insights into your flawed ideas of what happens in the UK. What exactly is your fascination with the UK though; you haven't explained really why! I bet its something really humiliating - I could actually imagine you (and I bet others have imagined something along these lines) that you were jilted at the altar by your best man (a charming Brit) running off with your not-to-be wife who ended up being pregnant wit your best man's child!

No I don't know that most people in London call Scots and Irish "gingers". I simply think you're getting your wires confused - having ginger hair is the insult, not being Scottish or Irish with ginger hair.

I don't even believe that you have been to the UK, let alone anyone from London - your inaccuracies throughout your post history are glarringly obvious.

Where would it be a pan-celtic/pan-britannic movement. Its based more upon Ireland joining the UK to have a larger say in EU affairs. Personally I'd swap Ireland for Scotland; nicer country, nicer people and better future.

And? I'm half Irish and? The vast majority of people don't have a mindset stuck 800 years in the past and are more concerned with the present and future circumstances. I'd also add that surely you are contradicting yourself - because Britain is England, Wales and Scotland. Britain attacking itself - you surely meant England attacking Wales and Scotland and Ireland. :laugh:

Still relegated by the fact that sales figures for Burberry are growing eh? :laugh:

Prada I should note is now the in-chav fashion. Infact buying authentic Prada clothes and having price tags attached to them is the 'in thing'. Louis Vuitton is next I suspect.

This is not tit for tat Nick How about settling the **** down for once.

What about viewing the documentary and showing us some of your personal or other insights into chav culture.

Norman Britain did attack Ireland (although at the behest of the English Crown under which it had been subjugated), Scots and Welsh conscripts and prisoners and mercenaries also were used. Ireland has never been part of Britain if you are talking about English constitutional law. Its the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Great Britain being England Scotland and Wales. There has been more of a fragmentation of late in the UK, with Scotland now having its own parliament in the proper sense for the first time in history. But please Nick, can we leave this interesting history for another post?

Im more interested in which chav insight, if any, you can give us.

nick-taylor
September 15th, 2006, 11:01 AM
Another nerve touched! I'll be able to get the entire vulgar vocabulary at this rate by midnight (GMT of course)!

I don't need to watch any documentary to be able to comment on chavs - I'm bound to see a few each day. In the US you'd call them trailer trash, except they don't reside in trailers (those tend to pikeys) and can actually be worth millions.

I personally don't have any time for them, but they don't hassle me so I don't hassle them.

I already stated that Britain was England, Wales and Scotland.... Ireland in the British Empire sense, it was the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. Today it is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In the future I'd like to see it become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Republic of Ireland.

While devolution to create the Scottish Parliament is new, Scotland has had its own Parliament for centuries (with more controls on how it runs itself than today) previous to the Acts of Union in 1707.

Luca
September 15th, 2006, 12:59 PM
Myself, I have spent many a happy afternoon (betwwen "lunch" and "tea-time" dontchaknow?, wearing knock-off Burberry regalia and insulting celts while eating cornish pasties and being an aristocratic, imperialist snob. I wear a bowler hat and pin-stripe suit and always carry a brolly. I, say, rather, what, what? :eek:

You know what's kinda sad, Gregster? The stupider and more ignorant amogn the Brits have similarly ridiculous pre-conceptions about the 'septics' (Septic Tank = Yank in rhyming slang...how funny :confused: ).

I have no toruble believing you may have spent the odd day in Piccadilly Circus. Travel does indeed narrow the mind. Like people I have met who went to Paris, liked the town ("but you wouldn't want to lvie there") but thought the food sucked.......:rolleyes:

P.S. I was calm and settled when I wrote this. :D

P.P.S. Are you a native New Yorker or where do you hail from?

ZippyTheChimp
September 15th, 2006, 01:19 PM
Gotta be a woman in the picture.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 16th, 2006, 08:16 AM
I didnt know that Chavs were the same as "trailer trash". They are people who live dead set in the middle of normal towns including London. Walk down any street in London and you may see one.

Just a hint - reference to chavs is just that - reference to chavs. We are not criticising or enquiring about you, not your family, not the UK. This topic isnt about you. Its about cHaVs.

So, dont be so defensive about some of the people in the UK (if that is where you are from). Its natural to cringe and feel defensive if this is the case. Dont. Tell us your insights about Chavs.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/supertouchblog/DSC09286.jpg

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 18th, 2006, 03:36 AM
Another nerve touched! I'll be able to get the entire vulgar vocabulary at this rate by midnight (GMT of course)!

An Englishman proud of GMT no less! Now that's patriotism.

I've never heard of anyone at Greenwich having a mean time myself....but anyway....

nick-taylor
September 18th, 2006, 06:54 AM
I didnt know that Chavs were the same as "trailer trash". They are people who live dead set in the middle of normal towns including London. Walk down any street in London and you may see one.

Just a hint - reference to chavs is just that - reference to chavs. We are not criticising or enquiring about you, not your family, not the UK. This topic isnt about you. Its about cHaVs.

So, dont be so defensive about some of the people in the UK (if that is where you are from). Its natural to cringe and feel defensive if this is the case. Dont. Tell us your insights about Chavs.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/supertouchblog/DSC09286.jpgThe difference is that while trailer trash is kept in trailers, in the UK we don't have such low-class accomodation. The lowest you can go is homeless or a council home (think of a project' but not as run-down, rat infested or as crime ridden). Most chavs reside in council homes, but you get the occasional millionaire or celebrity chav. One of the most wealthy chavs has his own demolition debry circuit on his estate, but most go around in their barried up vauxhall novas. I doubt that there are any chavs living in Central London - far too expensive and not of the right 'scene'.

Yet I enquire as to why you are so fixated about the UK - you have yet to explain why you appear obsessed!

I am infact not from the UK, but I am a British citizen and no I'm not a Londoner.




Nothing wrong with GMT - its the center of time as we know it. London so happens to be its epicenter. ;)

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 18th, 2006, 08:24 AM
I dont have an obsession with England or the UK but I have heard from several people there that it is the centre of the world so its not surprising you can have a mean time in Greenwich.

More about Chav Culture, less about off topic things please, except more about that Lord who had his own tv show for a while what was his name?

ablarc
September 18th, 2006, 09:06 AM
There have always been hoodlums in Britain: leather boys, skinheads, Teddy boys, chavs... Only surface manifestations of style change. The constant is, they're all punks.

lofter1
September 18th, 2006, 10:17 AM
The constant is, they're all punks.


and God Bless 'em ...

http://www.lwtua.free-online.co.uk/493.jpg

ablarc
September 18th, 2006, 12:25 PM
^ Glorification of conflict. Much of the world has bought the message.

Luca
September 19th, 2006, 07:14 AM
1. I second Zippy’s motion…

2. I agree with Ablarc that there is a cost to the glorification / reification of conflict, even when it is admittedly infantile and essentially a pose. Better than actually shootin’ folks down though. The US still has a shameful murder rate.

3. I know good folks who live in trailers. I detest the phrase ‘trailer trash’. It says a lot more about the utterer than the people it’s supposed to describe.

4. “Chavs” is simply the current name for youths who have the insolence to display, with arguably unjustified pride, the fashion markers and tribal signs of (lower) class consciousness. Not my set, really, but like most amateur reprobates and miscreants, the threat is not even a minute fraction of what the press hysteria would have you believe. People from NYC (or L.A., if we’re talking about “gang members”) should know that. Then again, I’ve found that there’s little to be lost and much to be gained from treating the folks from the council houses like they’re human beings.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 19th, 2006, 07:23 AM
4. “Chavs” is simply the current name for youths who have the insolence to display, with arguably unjustified pride, the fashion markers and tribal signs of (lower) class consciousness. Not my set, really, but like most amateur reprobates and miscreants, the threat is not even a minute fraction of what the press hysteria would have you believe. People from NYC (or L.A., if we’re talking about “gang members”) should know that. Then again, I’ve found that there’s little to be lost and much to be gained from treating the folks from the council houses like they’re human beings.

Interesting comments Lucca. Glad you've stopped the personal attacks. We weren't talking about you after all, we were talking about CHAVS.

Lower class consciousness signs, like Burberry knock-offs? What else do Chavs sometimes wear?

I for one have never seen a gang myself, except in the movies.

Luca
September 20th, 2006, 06:57 AM
Interesting comments Lucca. Glad you've stopped the personal attacks.

Well....It's not my fault you have such a...ehm..."show-business" avatar..:p


Lower class consciousness signs, like Burberry knock-offs? What else do Chavs sometimes wear?

Popoular 'lower-class' culture globally, but especially in Britain, is influenced (often obliquely0 by the "hip-hop" ethos, incuding blatant aspirational aspects; so if a mass brand becomes, somehow, "street" it may be adopted by 'chavs' and the like. In teh specific case of Burberry, there is also a nationalistic assocaition and the fact that it sieasily recognizable.

Chavs wear:
> Burberry knock-offs
> Expensive gymwear
> There is a limited Perry Ellis revival
> very tighly pulled ponytails (croydon facelift) and large hoop earrings for girls
> Obvious logos and St. George's Cross symbols

It's important to note, though, that imitation or cross-adoption of styles goes in both hierarchical directions (hence the "mockney" phenomenon), so chavness is often a matter of imitating, in chaper way, 'fashionable' wear or posher types adopting some 'street' fashions. Hackett made a fortune producing pseudo-English symbology of higher wuality/cost for horray henrys throughout England.

Very short hair, which 20 years ago was common only among skinheads is the norm for many people now. Women at the office wear spike heels that used to be sported only by the likes of Betty page.


I for one have never seen a gang myself, except in the movies.

You mean Warriors" was not a documentary??? :eek: :rolleyes:

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 20th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Chavs wear:
> Burberry knock-offs
> Expensive gymwear
> There is a limited Perry Ellis revival
> very tighly pulled ponytails (croydon facelift) and large hoop earrings for girls
> Obvious logos and St. George's Cross symbols

Now thats interesting because I imagine a lot of wealthy people also wear the same, Burberry (real or fake), Puma Adidas etc Gymwear (comfy and shows that you have leisure time), Perry Ellis (or Polo or similar), Ponytails (on some girls here) and the slogans (everyone wears that) and nationalistic symbols (well Ralph Lauren or Hilfiger does that well).

So what are the other discerning features of a chav?

Luca
September 21st, 2006, 02:23 AM
Now thats interesting because I imagine a lot of wealthy people also wear the same, Burberry (real or fake), Puma Adidas etc Gymwear (comfy and shows that you have leisure time), Perry Ellis (or Polo or similar), Ponytails (on some girls here) and the slogans (everyone wears that) and nationalistic symbols (well Ralph Lauren or Hilfiger does that well).

So what are the other discerning features of a chav?

Not really burberry, not for a long time. It was more of a 'footballer's wives' thing. Middle class and upper class people in Britain tend to wear gym clothes only when they are exercising. Also, the gym clothes are different. I don't know anyone who wears white velour matching sweat top and trousers, 200 quid "street" sneakers and their hair in a tight, tight ponytail (well, i do actually, but they're chavs..:) ). Or a really oversize t-shirt with a huge 'nike' logo. They may wear a properly fiftting one with a smaller logo or noen at all. Teh differences are subtle, but they are there.

One of my kids' kindergarden teachers looked fairly 'rough' and, not being in any way wealthy, lived in a modest house with furnbishings that most well-off people would find tacky. But you know what? She was great with him and worked hard to riase her own kids (single mum).

I'm not sure that, generally, the media's fascination with class is a positivfe thing, especially when, rather than crusading for the amelioration of truly marginalized people, it focuses on deriding certain people for their OTT tastes in clothing.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 21st, 2006, 03:18 AM
....Middle class and upper class people in Britain tend to wear....

Aha, may I be permitted to say without being accused of being anti british that your description of people in society into classes is, lets say, ancient and tendentious.

Very 18th Century there Luca. And very unedifying. I thought that we had gotten past describing people as upper class or this or that - lets face it - unless you are a multi millionaire who needs not earn any more money and who can live of his or her savings these days we are all citizens who pay taxes to one country or another. Hence we are all citizens, or "subjects". The guy driving the Merc just happens to pay more insurance than I do (I use the MTA).

Also, is there a correlation between these people whom, as you have said, look "rough" and a chav? Or between any one of us at 5.00 am in the morning?

Perhaps this is why I find some of your fellow countrymen strange with their obsession with "societal-divisions". I suppose that's why you've invented a new class of people and given them the name "chavs".

Luca
September 22nd, 2006, 04:07 AM
Aha, may I be permitted to say without being accused of being anti british that your description of people in society into classes is, lets say, ancient and tendentious.

Very 18th Century there Luca. And very unedifying. I thought that we had gotten past describing people as upper class or this or that - lets face it - unless you are a multi millionaire who needs not earn any more money and who can live of his or her savings these days we are all citizens who pay taxes to one country or another. Hence we are all citizens, or "subjects". The guy driving the Merc just happens to pay more insurance than I do (I use the MTA).

Also, is there a correlation between these people whom, as you have said, look "rough" and a chav? Or between any one of us at 5.00 am in the morning?

Perhaps this is why I find some of your fellow countrymen strange with their obsession with "societal-divisions". I suppose that's why you've invented a new class of people and given them the name "chavs".

Do you really for one second imagine that there is no such thign as class in the US? Becasue almost no serious social scientist in america would beleive that.

I realize that in teh more populist reaches of the US (I lived in the Midwest so...) this fond hope is cehrished like children beleiving in the Easter Bunny but it's aptently not so.

Within the space of a week, I heard two merrykuns describe themselves as 'middle class':
> One worked like a dog all summer to be able to afford to attend state
university and rode the bus.
> Another drove into campus on the first day in the Merc convertible her oil
field-owning daddy bought her as a graduation present.

Are the Brits more preoccupied with the whole class issue and somewhat less socially mobile than in the US. I'd have to say yes, thouuh not to a tremendous extent. The biggest difference is probably in the frankness with which the topic is discussed here, as oppsoed to the virtual (hypocritical) taboo in the US.

Then again, such taboos / PC have their uses. I've known appalling snobs (adjsuting for income / age / etc.) in both countries -- but US snobs tend to be more circumspect while ehre I've heard (over 13 yrs, to put it in eprspective) a couple of full-bore ones.

Make no mistake, though, "redneck" jokes are class hatred no less than jokes about scouser accents.

Gregory Tenenbaum
September 22nd, 2006, 07:21 AM
Do you really for one second imagine that there is no such thign as class in the US? Becasue almost no serious social scientist in america would beleive that.

I realize that in teh more populist reaches of the US (I lived in the Midwest so...) this fond hope is cehrished like children beleiving in the Easter Bunny but it's aptently not so.

Within the space of a week, I heard two merrykuns describe themselves as 'middle class':
> One worked like a dog all summer to be able to afford to attend state
university and rode the bus.
> Another drove into campus on the first day in the Merc convertible her oil
field-owning daddy bought her as a graduation present.

Are the Brits more preoccupied with the whole class issue and somewhat less socially mobile than in the US. I'd have to say yes, thouuh not to a tremendous extent. The biggest difference is probably in the frankness with which the topic is discussed here, as oppsoed to the virtual (hypocritical) taboo in the US.

Then again, such taboos / PC have their uses. I've known appalling snobs (adjsuting for income / age / etc.) in both countries -- but US snobs tend to be more circumspect while ehre I've heard (over 13 yrs, to put it in eprspective) a couple of full-bore ones.

Make no mistake, though, "redneck" jokes are class hatred no less than jokes about scouser accents.

What does all that mean?

That you didnt use class language? Or that it was a mistake to? How about we start another topic on the "classification of society". Keep this one for another topic, CHAVS.

It is interesting that you have classified people who could be your brother, sister, mother, father, aunt etc as Chavs. Chavs sound like people who like to wear Velour - well so does J Lo and so do I - so what? What are Chavs really about?

Luca
September 25th, 2006, 07:55 AM
It is interesting that you have classified people who could be your brother, sister, mother, father, aunt etc as Chavs. Chavs sound like people who like to wear Velour - well so does J Lo and so do I - so what? What are Chavs really about?

It's not MY classification. It's one of those media terms. If someone without much understanding/experience of the US asked you to define 'preppy' or 'hip-hop' or 'redneck' or 'emo' you might give it a try, but it's not something you came up with yourself.

[quote=Gregory Tenenbaum;121602]
Chavs sound like people who like to wear Velour - well so does J Lo and so do I quote]

:eek: Chacun a son gout... :eek:

Patience
September 25th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Yeah, so we up in Scotland call Chavs, Neds. Don't know why, just always have. Somebody who has studied the "Ned way", or has waaaaaay to much free time, has even provided us mere mortals with a website dedicated to the Neds :D

http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/

It's a riot! And, I think it covers not only the Neds in Glasgow, but Chavs all over the UK. Only with different accents. I think. They're pretty hard to understand in any case :p Be sure to check out the nedagotchi in the toys section.

If anyone finds translation difficult, I'll decipher it for you :)

Eg. Bucky - Buckfast, also known as "F*ckfast" or "Rage/Rocket Fuel", a cheap ass tonic wine Neds drink to "get mad way it" (To get very drunk). Popular with both underage and overage Neds, as it is a wide-held belief it will either get you an easy girl to f*ck or will get you into a fight, (the popular f*ck or fight symdrome) usually using the "emptay" (empty Buckfast bottle) to "gless" (glass, smash over someone's head) a "punter" (random stranger)

Patience xx :)

lofter1
September 25th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Thanks for that ^^^ patience me dear ... and this:
A ned media frenzy has really exploded in the last few years and sites such as glasgowsurvival.co.uk (http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/) are testament to the public's fascination with the world of the ned, kev, chav, skally or my preferred term, street monkey. I can only hope this film has a positive effect on the neds lucky enough to see it. I pray that they will see the error of their ways and hang up their caps for good.
Please join the ned debate in the forum and remember folks: look both ways before crossing the street and don't feed the neds.
http://www.nedumentary.co.uk/graphics/nedubanner.gif



We have here some excellent examples of the common ned.

They are displaying all of the "gear" expected of them and we also see a truly excellent example of the high cap angle on the hard looking one in the middle. We also see here the obligatory big guy or 'Goon Ned' used to "give doins" and generally intimidate people.



http://www.glasgowsurvival.co.uk/pictures/nedGal11_2.jpg


What's that you say, common neds? "You're gettin it"? That's nice.


These neds are attempting to display a rather hard persona for the camera. Sticking up your middle finger on each hand is well hard and other neds who see this photo will be shaking in their boots.


These could be thought of as the kind of tough guy ned who lose their toughness as soon as they are on their own.

Patience
September 25th, 2006, 03:27 PM
Well, even though I've lived in the roughest parts of Glasgow (murder capital of Europe, dontcha know?) - I've never 'got' the whole concept of neds. Really, who in their right mind would CHOOSE to look and act like that? It's a cover-up - human cloning gone really really wrong lol

Patience xx

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 27th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Burberry workers to stage protest

Last updated at 03:40am on 27th January 2007
Workers from a Burberry factory set to close with the loss of hundreds of jobs will stage demonstrations outside the firm's stores in London on Saturday.
Employees from the site in Treorchy, south Wales, will be joined by union activists who plan to unwrap huge rolls of brown paper outside the stores in the West End.
The firm has come under fire after announcing plans to close the south Wales factory and switch work to China.
Mick Duncan of the No Sweat campaign said: "Burberry's Welsh workforce have given years of loyal service to the company and are seeing their jobs sold from under them.
"Those jobs are being sold to the lowest bidder, to sweatshop exploiters in China, one of the most repressive, anti-labour regimes in the world."
Mervyn Burnett of the GMB added: "Burberry plans to ship production from Wales to China to reduce the cost of a shirt from £11 to £4 to increase profitability.
"Welsh workers in a British company with the current level of profits have a right to assume their jobs are safe.
"We do not understand that a British company, making a British brand which is doing so well, can decide that the Treorchy factory has become unviable."
A high profile campaign has been launched to save the plant, backed by singer Tom Jones and actors including Ioan Gruffudd.


From the Daily Mail today.


I wonder if the Chavs will still wear Burberry if it is Made in China Burberry?

Punzie
January 27th, 2007, 01:36 AM
A high profile campaign has been launched to save the plant, backed by singer Tom Jones and actors including Ioan Gruffudd.

Wasn't Tom Jones just knighted? Is he acting "unknightly" by backing these demonstrations? Or is he actually working in the Queen's favor by trying to keep jobs in the country?:confused:

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 30th, 2007, 04:31 PM
Thats a good question.

Like many stars in the UK Tom is probably proud of his knighthood and justifiably so. He is a proud Welshman from what I read.

Far from a chav himself, I think that he wants to protect local jobs, as Burberry has a plant in Wales from memory.

dragonslayer
March 27th, 2007, 08:34 PM
interesting forum - i find chavs endlessly facinating. The name Chav actually comes from the nickname give to natives of the kent town of Chatham and seems to have caught on in the last 5 years.
I've seen chavs (or versions of them) during my travels around europe, especially in France and germany, just travel out of central paris to the suburbs - they seem to be everywhere.
I notice you even have them in the US (i guess you'd call them trailer trash)- just look at 'eminem' and brittany spears, now they are as chavvy as you get.

dragonslayer
March 27th, 2007, 08:47 PM
I already stated that Britain was England, Wales and Scotland.... Ireland in the British Empire sense, it was the United Kingdom of Britain and Ireland. Today it is called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. In the future I'd like to see it become the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Republic of Ireland.

While devolution to create the Scottish Parliament is new, Scotland has had its own Parliament for centuries (with more controls on how it runs itself than today) previous to the Acts of Union in 1707.

Totally off the subject but i had to comment, Sorry nick, but the 'United Kingdon' is dying a death. I'm English, not british and would like to see the end of this 300 year old 'union'. England deservs its own parliament, as does scotland and wales. Nothing against the scots or welsh (i have friends from both countries), but we'd certainly have a healthier relationship with them.

BenL
March 30th, 2007, 11:38 AM
I see "chav" as just being a more socially acceptable way in these meritocratic times to look down on the working classes. Replace the word "chav" with "commoner" or something else similarly antiquitated and very little of the meaning is lost - it's just no one would feel able to say it.

dragonslayer
March 31st, 2007, 01:10 PM
I see "chav" as just being a more socially acceptable way in these meritocratic times to look down on the working classes. Replace the word "chav" with "commoner" or something else similarly antiquitated and very little of the meaning is lost - it's just no one would feel able to say it.

I don't agree with this. Being a 'chav' has nothing to do with social status - there are chavs with money, there are chavs without. Being a chav is a way of thinking / dressing / acting regardless of 'class'. I come from a council estate and i laugh at chavs in the same way as everyone else i know.

BenL
April 1st, 2007, 06:34 AM
Being a "chav" has everything to do with social status, although it may have less to do with economic status. It is common in our country that low social status goes with low economic status but you do get your exceptions. Look at someone like Wayne Rooney, considered as a chav yet earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a week.

The word may have been originally associated with violent youths but it now seems to be used whenever there's a teenager hanging around in Nike.

dragonslayer
April 7th, 2007, 10:00 PM
Being a "chav" has everything to do with social status, although it may have less to do with economic status. It is common in our country that low social status goes with low economic status but you do get your exceptions. Look at someone like Wayne Rooney, considered as a chav yet earning hundreds of thousands of pounds a week.

The word may have been originally associated with violent youths but it now seems to be used whenever there's a teenager hanging around in Nike.

Sorry mate, just don't agree. Being a chav is more a way of thinking and acting than social status, there are plenty of middle income familys that i would consider Chavs, and plenty at the lower end who aren't.

Kitty-london
April 8th, 2007, 12:27 PM
Dragon slayer i must say i agree with you there. I consider myself English, Not British. The English parliament, which deals with the needs and issues concerning soley England, should be so. At the moment I personally feel far too many Scottish MP's have a say in laws ect which will ultimately not even affect thier country! Why should they have a say in our tax laws when it is Only the English public that will have to suffer them! Sorry i know that was rather off topic, but a hot topic it is none the less. As for Chavs its quite a strange one. I look at them as just another social/collective group like punks or goths, but probably with much more contempt! Very stereotypical but i think amongst young people (can you call 21 young?! i dont know lol) chavs are classified as:

Coming from broken or diss-functional families
Into petty crime
poor education
Often stem from council estate/poor areas
Most importantly can be identified by clothing usually hoodies, trackies, trainers/rockports or such
Nasty jewellery namely sovereign rings, hoop earrings for the girls
partial to loitering outside corner shops, in stairwells, and shopping centers.

to me thats what sums them up , I know its very stereotypical, but if you asked English people to come up with a list identifying "Chavs" im pretty sure that would be spot on. I agree with the person who said the term chav seems to be given to any youth in a tracksuit thesedays.

Capn_Birdseye
April 10th, 2007, 11:21 AM
Some chavs like to play bored (sic) games!

BenL
April 11th, 2007, 05:44 PM
That board game included "scruffy maisonette", "council semi" and for GO, "collect your GIRO". This is how "chavs" are defined - low social status and the limited economic power that goes with it. I'm against the English Parliament for the simple and rather terrifying reason that the Tories would always hold the majority!

Luca
April 17th, 2007, 01:06 PM
That board game included "scruffy maisonette", "council semi" and for GO, "collect your GIRO". This is how "chavs" are defined - low social status and the limited economic power that goes with it. I'm against the English Parliament for the simple and rather terrifying reason that the Tories would always hold the majority!

Heh, heh, heh. I'm all for it for the very same reason. :D

Why should the hard-working, wealthy people of England be ruled by a bunch of subsidy-dispensing, civil-serpent-hiring Scots Stalinists elected by those smack-heads north of the border?

:p
Gie os uur frredum (pronounced Braveheart-style) !!

Acutally let me amend it, let the area within the M25 secede (albeit, allowing the oiks outside it guest-worker permits). ;)

Meerkat
April 17th, 2007, 02:17 PM
That board game included "scruffy maisonette", "council semi" and for GO, "collect your GIRO". This is how "chavs" are defined - low social status and the limited economic power that goes with it. I'm against the English Parliament for the simple and rather terrifying reason that the Tories would always hold the majority!


speak for yourself!!! I'm voting for the english democrats next election. I'm all for an English parliament - can't wait!!!

krulltime
April 29th, 2007, 10:52 AM
'Chavs' making trouble to a skyscrapercity forumer? (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=12898186#post12898186) (Other forumers have had similar confrontations with 'these' youth aswell - keep on reading)


About 20 minutes ago.

I live in this house that is right next to a public footpath that leads to a clearing by a river. Its all lovely.

Now the weather is getting better I tend to get groups of youths coming down late at night hanging around, and they aren't a problem to be honest. Just lately though they have been making more and more noise going past, banging on the walls, the door, had my bin nicked once, doorbell ringing... all in isolation not too bad, but cumulatively its a nuisance and depressing. Alternate weekends my son is here as well, and its a worry for me that he feels safe and untroubled.

I had to call the local community police officer out a while back as they had broken through the fence at the side of the house and were tresspassing, and they were leaving shit all over the place.

Tonight some idiots decided to start banging on my door so I went outside and contronted 3 girls (one who works for me) and they reckoned thay had nothing to do with it.... so angrily I told them to get away from the house and to leave me alone.

!0 minutes later, and not unexpectedly a brick came through my kitchen window.

Obviously I just called the police, but I am so upset about this I really am... its a lovely area. Now I'm thinking I'll have to move. Can you believe it?



http://www.virtual-planit.com/CHRIS/window.jpg

infoshare
April 29th, 2007, 11:12 AM
(Other forumers have had similar confrontations with 'these' youth aswell - keep on reading)


I have been following this thread (and some others at Skyscraper) and this is one of the most bizarre post I have seen. Thanks for sharing. :cool:

Meerkat
April 29th, 2007, 11:15 AM
The brats responsible should be made to pay for this damage and clean up the mess.

There should be zero tolerence for this kind of behaviour - not this crap 'we should try to understand them' and 'hug a hoodie' :mad: what a load of rubbish - what they deserve is a good slap.

Hopefully with a new government things will change.

Out of curiosity, if this happened in America, how would the police react?

infoshare
April 29th, 2007, 11:45 AM
The brats responsible should be made to pay for this damage and clean up the mess.

Out of curiosity, if this happened in America, how would the police react?

It would depend on the particular neighborhood you lived in: the response to crimes like this vary from place-to-place much more so in the US than they do in the UK.

We once had someone shooting out our window with a bebe gun, when the police officer came to look at the damage: he got shot in the face. They did investigate the "housing projects/council housing" across the street and caught the "kids" who were doing it - no charges were filed. :mad:

BenL
April 30th, 2007, 03:24 PM
There's anti-social activity from teenagers in every country - it's wrong to describe the vandalism against a forumer as part of a vaguely cohesive "chav" menace. You can't simply punish individuals - there must also be an effort to address the root cause.

Ninjahedge
April 30th, 2007, 04:06 PM
There's anti-social activity from teenagers in every country - it's wrong to describe the vandalism against a forumer as part of a vaguely cohesive "chav" menace. You can't simply punish individuals - there must also be an effort to address the root cause.

They are trying to define themselves. Establish their own part in the social heirarchy. If there was an Alpha Male they would be growling at him.

Grafitti is the same thing. Hell, there are so many things like this, and it is SO strong during adolescents. It is one of the things that made our species develop. But when it has no focus, it is destructive.

All these kids need is something where they feel they have an absolute impact in society due to their participation. I think everyone wants that.

Luca
May 1st, 2007, 02:46 AM
:rolleyes:

Erm...yeh..."I blame society"


:mad:


This fine country has experienced one of the longest, broadest and deepest periods of expansion and income and employment growth in its history. While crime typically associated with socioeconomic issues has abated, petty and violent crime associated with socio-cultural breakdown has increased substantially (though obviously the media ensures the perception is worse than the reality).

As long as people go making excuses for little sub-literate thugs, things will get worse. The US went through this already and has now improved significantly. I really do wish we'd come to the same conclusions in the UK. Someone who chucks a brick through someone's window should be severely punished. End of story.

We've got a 'mixed' set of socio-economic realities on our street. Most middle-class people seem to relate to the council flats types with a mixture of anomie (they appear to be invisible to them) and fear (never call them out on anything). I've always opted for franker engagement (they're people...just with less dosh) and since I actually know who the kid's parents are...if I have to tell a kid off (only happened 2-3 times in 7+ years) I'm not some faceless posh bastard but someone who will shop them to their folks or if need be slap them upside the head. My posh neighbors look at me funny when the kids from 'the estate' greet me in the street and call me sir.

Krulltime: I feel for you; that's a shame. You might want to try Zen. It really orks.

Gregory Tenenbaum
July 5th, 2008, 11:41 AM
How are the stabbings in London this year? 17 so far?

Why are 14 year old white kids at pubs until 2 am?

In fact, why are 14 and 17 year old kids in pubs at all?

Its the glorious culture of England innit.

Innit?

Someone with more knowledge than I care to update the forum on the bizarre knife debate going on?

stache
July 5th, 2008, 08:06 PM
17 stabbings in six months in a city the size of London does not seem so bad to me.

Meerkat
July 5th, 2008, 08:40 PM
Greggy dear, how many shootings in LA this year? After my recent visit to that city i was shocked by some of the stories about the extent of gun crime and gang culture there. I don't think you are any position to point the guilty finger at another country / city when you have problems enough of your own.

But you're right Stache, 17 stabbings out of 8 million people is a very small number, there's something very sick about his post - it seems he takes pleasure in these horrible killings.

Back on my ignore list with old GT methinks.

Gregory Tenenbaum
July 6th, 2008, 09:42 PM
You win the internet warz methinks.

No. Methinks that...

Ah never mind

methinks.

smellslikeabid
August 16th, 2008, 11:41 AM
How are the stabbings in London this year? 17 so far?

Its the glorious culture of England innit.

Innit?

Someone with more knowledge than I care to update the forum on the bizarre knife debate going on?

I havent read all of this chav debate thing, but i do know a lot about it as i am a Brit, who reads, sees and has to deal with Chavs.

The reasons for the above questions are as follows;


Why are 14 year old white kids at pubs until 2 am?

They are because there is nothing else to do.

And "White" has nothing to do with it. The Majority of the stabbings/shootings are black kids, or white "Wiggers" (White kids who wish they were black) The kids immitate their Idols who are gun toting rappers who preach crime and murder. There are stabbings only because its so god damn hard to get a gun! If they had access to guns, there would be more shootings.



Why are 14 year old white kids at pubs until 2 am?


Your right, it is the culture of Britain. We were brought up in pubs, and the majority of local village pubs have their fair share of underage drinkers, but as long as they are in the pubs, and not on the streets, their parents know where they are, and are often in the pub with them.

The problem is in the inner cities/towns, where there are no local pubs, just poncey wine bars, and clubs, the kids are out on the streets imitating what they see and hear about from The Media they listen too and watch.

Please feel free to ask me anything about this, it does bother me how us Brits are percieved, and there is a bunch of useless inbred c**ting ferel kids that roam the streets stabbing eachother, that give the rest of Britains law abiding clever youths a bad name!

londonlawyer
August 16th, 2008, 01:00 PM
I don't understand the focus on chavs. It goes without saying that America is full of low-lives and white trash. Every society has them.

Meerkat
August 17th, 2008, 08:16 AM
^ I don't understand the obsession with 'Chavs' either - they only number a small proportion of society as a whole.

Maybe this obsession is some sort of odd fetish - you know, the trainers / sportswear etc :confused:

Anyway, as Greggy ignored my question about gang related killings in Los Angeles I did a bit of research and found that in 2007 there were 216 gang murders. With 20 or so fatal knifings in London this year it doesn't take a genius to work out which city has the worst problem.

195Broadway
August 18th, 2008, 12:09 AM
I just finished reading this thread. Interesting topic. Young punks know no borders. New ones are being hatched every day. Some little $hit has been "tagging" our neighborhood all summer. Probably better that I don't catch him in the act. :mad:
Question: Is there a drinking age in England?

stache
August 18th, 2008, 02:21 AM
Birth. :p

smellslikeabid
August 18th, 2008, 05:10 AM
I just finished reading this thread. Interesting topic. Young punks know no borders. New ones are being hatched every day. Some little $hit has been "tagging" our neighborhood all summer. Probably better that I don't catch him in the act. :mad:
Question: Is there a drinking age in England?

You can legally drink wine, beer or porter in your own home from age 5, Drink in a restaurant with food and accompanying adult/parent at 13, and legally drink and buy alcohol at 18.

smellslikeabid
August 18th, 2008, 05:12 AM
^ I don't understand the obsession with 'Chavs' either - they only number a small proportion of society as a whole.

Maybe this obsession is some sort of odd fetish - you know, the trainers / sportswear etc :confused:

Anyway, as Greggy ignored my question about gang related killings in Los Angeles I did a bit of research and found that in 2007 there were 216 gang murders. With 20 or so fatal knifings in London this year it doesn't take a genius to work out which city has the worst problem.

LA does have a bigger problem, but London is getting much worse.
There have been 20 fatal stabbings of kids,some completely innocent, god knows how many non fatal stabbings there are though. And like i said before, if the kids had access to guns, then im sure there would be far more fatalaties!

smellslikeabid
August 18th, 2008, 05:18 AM
Thought this may make you laugh though, it sums up a whole genration of chavs in 1, 44 second video.

Warning, Bad language is involved, so probably nsfw.
But it so so funny!

White chav kids trying to be black!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uja3W-ibifc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uja3W-ibifc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

God damn, these kids will grow up and have to run our country. We are going to hell in a hand cart, and im moving to New York!!

195Broadway
August 18th, 2008, 01:16 PM
You can legally drink wine, beer or porter in your own home from age 5, Drink in a restaurant with food and accompanying adult/parent at 13, and legally drink and buy alcohol at 18.

As to minors, it seems that your laws are more restrictive than the ones here in Texas.
Is it common to see kids under the age of 18 that are unaccompanied by a gardian, drinking in British pubs?

Ninjahedge
August 18th, 2008, 02:54 PM
I would guess yes, but probably only in the pubs that they frequent.

Figure it this way, tehy do something there that they shouldn't, everyone there knows them and their parents will probably be there soon, or the next day anyway.

Sometimes familiarity and that kind of small-town cohesiveness has its advantages.

I miss it, or rather its absolute absence, in Hoboken....

Meerkat
August 19th, 2008, 02:29 AM
sometimes older looking teenagers go to pubs, but usually have to prove their age before getting served. I was still being asked for ID when i was 25.

I don't think there is anything wrong with them enjoying themselves anyway. Its only the troublemakers we hear about, never the well behaved kids.

I never got into any trouble when i was younger out having a drink, nor did any of my friends. We were all to busy holding down jobs / getting an education etc to cause trouble.

I don't think crime in London is getting worse, but i think the attention the media gives to knife crime alters the publics perception of crime in general; crime rates are actually falling at the moment. Media hype plays a big role in our conception of crime, and adds to the problem. Teenager knifes a rival: the papers report the knifing; another teenger hears about this and thinks its 'cool' to carry a knife with disasterous consequences - and so goes a vicious cycle. In fact the media are to balme for a lot of problems in my opinion.

24 murders in 8 months for a city of 8 million is not many. The victims are mostly gang members and a couple are recently arrived migrants.

smellslikeabid
August 19th, 2008, 05:13 AM
As to minors, it seems that your laws are more restrictive than the ones here in Texas.
Is it common to see kids under the age of 18 that are unaccompanied by a gardian, drinking in British pubs?

Yes, depends where though, In the towns or cities, not so common, as the local authorities take a hard view on it. The kids instead by drinks from the corner shops or steal from their parents and get messy and rowdy on the streets.
But in the local villages, it is more common to see kids under 18 unaccompanied, but like i said before, thier parents know where they are, know what they are doing, and know that people in the pub know their kids, and if they cause any issues, the people will tell thier parents immediatly! This is what happens in my local, but the kids are all well behaved, and although they may get a bit drunk, they never cause any trouble, because their parents friends are drinking in the pub too!

It works very well!
Its all about a solid tight community feel, something you just dont get in Britains towns and cities.

195Broadway
August 19th, 2008, 10:38 AM
smellslikeabid,
I Google maped Bury St Edmunds, UK. It looks like a place I could call home. Don't take it for granted. The bureaucratic big government control freaks are surely eyeing it like hungry wolves.
Steven

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/5694591.jpg

195Broadway
August 19th, 2008, 11:32 AM
sometimes older looking teenagers go to pubs, but usually have to prove their age before getting served. I was still being asked for ID when i was 25.

I don't think there is anything wrong with them enjoying themselves anyway. Its only the troublemakers we hear about, never the well behaved kids.

I never got into any trouble when i was younger out having a drink, nor did any of my friends. We were all to busy holding down jobs / getting an education etc to cause trouble.



I had an almost identical experience while growing up. (New Jersey, USA)

Steven

smellslikeabid
August 19th, 2008, 11:42 AM
smellslikeabid,
I Google maped Bury St Edmunds, UK. It looks like a place I could call home. Don't take it for granted. The bureaucratic big government control freaks are surely eyeing it like hungry wolves.
Steven

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/5694591.jpg

Bless ya!!

You have got a picture of the green king sign out side the Grapes Pub in Bury, my flat literally was a 2 second walk from that pub. (I lived above a bar called Karooze, which you can see from the Grapes!)

Google Green King, one of the uk's biggest brewers of fine ale. Loads of History, including the first ever recorded trade union in the world!

Bury is a nice town, but your right, the big wigs are looking down on it already, 2 min walk from this very pub they are building a shopping mall, with all the clone shops the uk has, not Very Bury St Edmunds at all!

I still would rather be living in NYC though!!

Fahzee
August 19th, 2008, 12:05 PM
off topic: I love the UK's obsession with "The Green Man", or any variation of that.

he's like a magical version of Johnny Appleseed - but older, wiser, more mysterious....

smellslikeabid
August 19th, 2008, 12:09 PM
off topic: I love the UK's obsession with "The Green Man", or any variation of that.

he's like a magical version of Johnny Appleseed - but older, wiser, more mysterious....

The picture is i believe of the abbot of bury, but i cant remember, ill find out!

Ninjahedge
August 19th, 2008, 12:38 PM
Sounds a lot like what they are doing in a lot of areas Smell.

NYC has that problem, and there is a thread about it, but also a bunch of more historical towns in NJ and CT are having the same problem. The only thing that saves them is getting expensive BEFORE becoming popular (Ridgewood).

If that happens, you have people arguing to save the brownstones, classic colonials and Tudors in the neighborhood and the classic towne center feel.

If you don't, you get mini-malls, chain food and other franchises. Thing is, even with franchises, Ann Taylor will be more willing to spend a few more $$ to make their shop fit in, K mart, in general, does not.

smellslikeabid
August 20th, 2008, 04:23 AM
That was one of the things i loved about NYC, yes there are lots of Chain stores etc, but there are also so many independant stores, that are so successful.

Its amazing too see! Support your local independant retailer, more now than ever before!

smellslikeabid
August 20th, 2008, 07:12 AM
smellslikeabid,
I Google maped Bury St Edmunds, UK. It looks like a place I could call home. Don't take it for granted. The bureaucratic big government control freaks are surely eyeing it like hungry wolves.
Steven

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/5694591.jpg

Completely off topic and hijacked, but **** it.

Here is said pub and my old bar in the background last night

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v300/78/105/723149527/n723149527_679093_875.jpg

, and further in the background is the new development.

195Broadway
August 20th, 2008, 10:29 AM
I copied your photo and blew it up to see Karooze. Sorry, I can't make it out at this resolution. Which sign is it?

Wow, the new construction looks like someone dragged an oil super tanker to the site. :(

Steven

smellslikeabid
August 20th, 2008, 12:09 PM
I copied your photo and blew it up to see Karooze. Sorry, I can't make it out at this resolution. Which sign is it?

Wow, the new construction looks like someone dragged an oil super tanker to the site. :(

Steven

Its the red hanging sign in the background.

The construction aint pretty, you wanna see what they are doing.

http://www.arc-burystedmunds.com/images/plan.jpg

Souless.

Ninjahedge
August 20th, 2008, 01:53 PM
How can you say soulless!!!

Look at all those happy Architectural people in there!!!!!!

And those pointy facades!!! Wow! What GENIUS! They fit right in with the neighborhood!!!!!! I mean, you can almost SEE the neighborhood reflected in that roundish glass fallen soufflé thing in the back there!



GENIUS I say!!!!!


Now, where's the knife-fight arena for all these gangsta Chavs?

stache
August 20th, 2008, 02:06 PM
I'm trying to imagine what they tore down in order to build this - :(

smellslikeabid
August 21st, 2008, 11:14 AM
I'm trying to imagine what they tore down in order to build this - :(

Luckily, nothing really. The area used to be a big cattle market, and when that stopped, it just became a car park. So at least nothing was really lost.

Ninjahedge
August 21st, 2008, 02:34 PM
But don't you miss the smell of Cattle? :)

smellslikeabid
August 21st, 2008, 05:20 PM
But don't you miss the smell of Cattle? :)

And the steam of their backs when it rains!

Meerkat
August 22nd, 2008, 06:17 AM
The area used to be a big cattle market, and when that stopped, it just became a car park.

Same thing happened in my home town. We had a huge cattle market which was torn down about 5 years ago. Now its a Sainsburys and a massive car park.

smellslikeabid
August 24th, 2008, 07:23 AM
Same thing happened in my home town. We had a huge cattle market which was torn down about 5 years ago. Now its a Sainsburys and a massive car park.

Its happened a lot all across the uk.

Gregory Tenenbaum
May 22nd, 2009, 12:46 PM
How is the Chav activity recently? Are they going to have Chavsports in the 2012 Olympics? Has training started?