Manhattan's Best Large Public Square

[ablarc]

MANHATTAN’S BEST LARGE PUBLIC SQUARE

When someone mentions great urban squares, Europe springs to mind. But on further consideration, I feel Manhattan has better and perhaps more large squares than Paris, London, Rome or Berlin. The Manhattan examples are often surrounded by a greater diversity of buildings than their European counterparts --and what’s more, most are green.

A city square is a public space largely surrounded by buildings. Central Park almost fits that definition, but it’s a little too large; there are places in the park where you can completely lose your sense of being in a bounded urban space.

But even if you omit Central Park, consider the embarrassment of riches Manhattan offers.

First there’s the big twelve publicly-owned squares:

Washington Square
Bryant Park
Times Square
Union Square
Columbus Circle
Grand Army Plaza
City Hall Park
Battery Park
Tompkins Square
Madison Square
Stuyvesant Square
Herald Square

Magnificent privately-owned squares offer varying degrees of public access, more or less arranged from most to least:

Rockefeller Center
Lincoln Center
Columbia University
Tudor City Park
United Nations Gardens
Gramercy Park

Manhattan’s smaller, more neighborhood-oriented squares include some distinguished places, though fewer in number compared with European cities. A selection:

Abingdon Square
Sheridan Square
Verdi Square
Bowling Green
Astor Place

Since this forum’s poll allows ten choices, I’ve included the first ten of the big twelve, figuring few would vote for Herald or Stuyvesant Squares –despite their virtues.

Vote for one.

.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Bryant Park.

Good mix of locals, and tourists who manage to detach themselves from Times Square. No matter how the building turns out, Bryant Park will improve with the completion of BOA.

Still annoyed at the too frequent closings for private events.

Honorable mention to Union Square.

[Comelade]

Bryant Park.

Good mix of locals, and tourists who manage to detach themselves from Times Square. No matter how the building turns out, Bryant Park will improve with the completion of BOA.

Still annoyed at the too frequent closings for private events.

Honorable mention to Union Square.

The Bryant Park :):)

[pianoman11686]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Union Square. I've wandered down there a few times when the Greenmarket was in town, and there was truly something European about it. Other times, I've always seen it lively. And I guess its history as a place for demonstrators to gather, and for radicals to speak, lends to its function as a gathering space.

I love Bryant Park, and would definitely put it a close second behind Union Square. The thing is, it does seem to be booked by private events, and is always being sponsored by someone or some company. Don't get me wrong, it's a jewel, but there's just something about it that doesn't say "Public Square" to me.

Times Square: too many cars, too little space for the pedestrian crowds. Plus, it's overrun by tourists so much, it's hard to say how many members of the public (ie: New Yorkers) use it. Despite all that, it's still the spot where we gather every New Years' Eve, and that makes up for a lot of its downsides.

Rockefeller Center: probably 3rd or 4th place for me. One of the most unique public spaces in the entire world. An icon, and worthy of imitation.

Columbus Circle and Grand Army Plaza: two jewels flanking, arguably, the greatest public area in any urban environment.

[sfenn1117]

Madison Square, for the great surronding buildings mainly.

Times Square is easily the city's most famous, and while I don't mind it, it's just too hectic, and filled with people looking up, or stopping in the middle of the sidewalk trying to find the Toys R Us. It's for the tourists. Union Square is for the activists. Washington Square is for NYU students.

Madison Square is for New Yorkers, it's quiet and serene, and just a nice place to take a rest after walking a while. City Hall Park would be my choice for when I'm downtown.

Best "private" square for me would be Tudor City Park, for the quietness and view of the Chrysler Building.

[TREPYE]

Bryant park.
So many things that make it the quintessential pubic square.

Located in the heart of NYC with a great open space in the lawn area to catch a great dose of sun. And in a location saturated with skyscrapers that cast shadows like that having an area with that much open space is almost like an oasis of sun rays.

The views are just majestic. Between the views of the ESB, Radiator building, Lefcourt, Conde Nast (and soon 1BP ;)), Merchantile, Chrysler, just to name a few classy elegant scrapers to gaze upon while chilling in the middle of the lawn. With people from here there and everywhere chatting, surfing the net or entranced in a game chess you'll never feel alone. All of this with a back drop of old world elegance that is the beautiful NYC library. Not even close in my opinion- Bryant Park.

[ablarc]

^ Even in distinguished company, Bryant Park is now a standout. Well on its way to a runaway victory in this poll. A few years ago, no-one respectable ventured inside for fear of pushers and muggers. And runner-up, Union Square, was only a bit better. New York sure has come a long way. Let's remember that before we rue gentrification too much.

[ablarc]

Bryant Park in 1940 --before the dealers moved in:

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/nycbw/117.jpg

[lofter1]

I'm not so sure that "gentrification" is what caused the turn around for Bryant Park ...

The enlargement of the NYPL (with new storage areas underneath the lawn area of BP) got things going; the restoration of Bryant Park and the establishment of the Bryant Park Restoration Corporation ( BPRC (http://www.pps.org/civic_centers/info/MgmtModels/mgmt_bryantpark) ) a number of years ago, which created the conduit for private money to improve and maintain this publicly owned park, is what kept things moving in the right direction. Improvements in the area followed this successful business model. Residential buildings in the immediate area are more of a result of the success of Bryant Park, rather than something that created the changes which have made BP so popular.

Credit should also be given to HBO (with HQ in the unfortunate little glas-covered box at the NE corner of 42nd St. / 6th Avenue) who started the summer movie series on Monday nights -- well before many folks had re-discovered Bryant Park. Just wrapping up its 14th year, this outdoor film series in its early days attracted crowds only in the dozens (a much more satisfying film-going experience ;) ) rather than the shoulder-to-shoulder throngs that now attend. These films and the communal event that it has become have attracted all sorts to the area and introduced them to the new and glorious Bryant Park. Almost all the subsequent successes here can find their seed in this event.

[lofter1]

The real strength is the combination of all the above.

But to play this game, I say #1: Union Square and #2: Bryant Park, the yin and yang of NYC public squares: Union Square is outward looking and expansive -- a backyard deck for NYC; Bryant Park is protective and inward -- NYC's courtyard.

[LOVE-NYC]

No. 1 Columbus Circle
No. 2 Bryant Park

[ablarc]

I'm not so sure that "gentrification" is what caused the turn around for Bryant Park.
From Merriam-Webster:

gentrification

Pronunciation: "jen-tr&-f&-'kA-sh&n

Function: noun

the process of renewal and rebuilding accompanying the influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces earlier usually poorer residents.


No matter how much money they may have, all muggers and drug dealers are spiritually poor –in fact, bankrupt. Getting rid of low-lifes is one form of gentrification.

[lofter1]

OK -- I read you in the broader sense.

The former low-lifes that hung around the Park just used BP as a place of business -- and aside from the small numbers of homeless that camped out in BP (thank you, Mr. Reagan --,and your social policies) there were very few "poorer residents" in the vicinity -- this was not a situation of a distressed residential area but a broader failure of civic planning & economics. The residential uses came after the renewal.

But we're saying essentially the same thing.

[pianoman11686]

It's a chicken before the egg argument. Both phenomena are closely related. But the bottom line is this: if, in the 90's, crime hadn't started to go down, and Manhattan hadn't started to become a desirable place to live again, Bryant Park (as well as Central, Madison Square, Union Square, and almost every other) would still be strewn with used syringes, garbage, and lowlifes.

To put it differently, there's a reason Bryant Park was a dump many years ago, and it had little to do with the fact that it was surrounded by a commercial district. Today, it's been cleaned up, in large part thanks to a private partnership of local businesses. But that's only an effect of a broader process of renewal.

[ablarc]

Before they replace the Savoy Plaza with the GM Building, Grand Army Plaza would have been the runaway winner of this poll. Now it hasn't even scored.

[TREPYE]

Before they replace the Savoy Plaza with the GM Building

Another crime in the scale of the Singer Building. I gather this was before landmark protection also?

[lofter1]

Before they replace the Savoy Plaza with the GM Building, Grand Army Plaza would have been the runaway winner of this poll. Now it hasn't even scored.


Horse Poop

[ablarc]

Horse Poop
There was plenty more of it then, because horses came without "diapers". Yet Grand Army Plaza was still by consensus the most elegant place in town. Maybe folks didn't mind it then; I don't mind it even now.

Maybe in fact the horses were thought in those days to actually enhance the cachet of that place..

[ablarc]

Another crime in the scale of the Singer Building. I gather this was before landmark protection also?
More on this here: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7009

[lofter1]

Yet Grand Army Plaza was still by consensus the most elegant place in town. Maybe folks didn't mind it then; I don't mind it even now.

Maybe in fact the horses were thought in those days to actually enhance the cachet of that place..
Setting aside the horses, Grand Army Plaza always seems to me to be a confusing place ...

Perhaps it's the proliferation of vendors selling "portraits", t-shirts, etc. Or the blue police barricades blocking the roadway into the park ... or the backed up traffic. Maybe it's the scaffolding over The Plaza.

The GM building looming overhead doesn't help what is essentially a fairly small public space at 59th / 5th.

The Pulitzer Fountain area can be a wonderful respite, but with The Plaza encaged the romance is not so apparent (for now).

[ablarc]

Setting aside the horses, Grand Army Plaza always seems to me to be a confusing place ...

Perhaps it's the proliferation of vendors selling "portraits", t-shirts, etc.
The bluebloods would have banned those in olden times.

Or the blue police barricades blocking the roadway into the park ... or the backed up traffic. Maybe it's the scaffolding over The Plaza.

The GM building looming overhead doesn't help what is essentially a fairly small public space at 59th / 5th.
Shows how far it's fallen. The only major New York square that's declined.

The Pulitzer Fountain area can be a wonderful respite, but with The Plaza encaged the romance is not so apparent (for now).
Reached its peak when cabs were still DeSotos.

[pianoman11686]

Shows how far it's fallen. The only major New York square that's declined.

In the few times I've passed by there in the past year or so, I've always thought of it as a lively place. Kitschy, yes - as most tourist stops are - but still impeccably kept.

Since the Apple store opening, the crowds have been almost impassable in the area, and not just within the boundaries of the GM Plaza. I have a feeling that when the Plaza reopens, along with the new showcase retail arcade planned inside, the crowds will rival those at Bryant Park.

[lofter1]

The only major New York square that's declined.

Hmmm ... I think that distinction must be shared with Mount Morris Park (http://www.harlemmtmorris.org/dstrc_park.htm) ...

This is a fantastic public square and park, parts of which appear to be stuck in the sad & sorry NYC of the 1970's.

Also home to the Fire Watch Tower (http://www.nyc-architecture.com/HAR/HAR024.htm), a NYC Landmark:

http://www.irishinnyc.freeservers.com/119116pr.jpg

And from which one can find Great Vistas (http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigmap/manhattan/uppermanhattan/harlem/marcusgarvey/index.htm) of Manhattan and beyond

[ablarc]

^ Really a park, not a square.

[czsz]

Union Square ought to be trouncing Bryant Park. The latter is nothing more than Midtown's corporate lawn, lively at lunch hour or during you-must-be-this-rich-to-enter corporate sponsored events, but not so much at other times. Not to mention that it's surrounded by comparatively dull office towers. Union Square, by contrast, is an actual transportation, commercial, entertainment, and residential hub. It's where hipsters trudge in from Williamsburg to do their shopping, where downtown meets midtown in a war of spirits, where the mangy fast food restaurants of 14th St. meet the W Hotel and Diesel. It's crowded until the early morning with street artists and protesters. Even its architecture is varied, and the greenmarket beats the somber "programming" of Bryant Park's vendors any day.

Best of all, it has far, far fewer tourists.

[ryan]

I'm only slightly less fond of Times Sq. than Union. So crowded at all times (and thus disgustingly dirty at all times). Always someone protesting (...preaching to the choir...) and stupid carny acts. There's no shopping there to motivate me onto the L -- aside from the strand -- as it's overrun with tacky chain stores.

I'd rather stay in Williamsburg sit in McCarren park.

[lbjefferies]

My vote is for Madison Square. It is a wonderful park surrounded by lovely buildings. Pretty fountains, the Shake Shack, a well manicured lawn, a fine set of monuments and statues, a canopy of leaves that keep the park cool and muffle the sounds of the street, rats that think they're squirrels. Well, strike that last one.

[ablarc]

Grand Army Plaza finally gets a vote. Bryant Park addresses one of its shortcomings by evicting fashion show.

[pianoman11686]

Well, Bryant Park's still winning, but no longer a runaway.

Another reason Union Square should be the leader: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122198&postcount=14

[ablarc]

^ Why does the article have to quote Berman? Who really cares what he has to say? If it were up to his obstructionist self, wouldn't Union Square still be a dump?

[pianoman11686]

I think it has something to do with his involvement in this (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122219&postcount=1106), which was the subject of an article in the same newspaper today.

[OmegaNYC]

I hope I'm not too late. I love Bryant Park. It's off Times Square, but it doesn't seem to be that jampacked with people. Mix of locals (IE New York Area residents) and tourist. Fun place to take a break, read a book, or chat with a friend. Bryant Park kicks butt! ;)

[H-man]

i like foley square but its not on the list. so i voted for columbus circle

[nick-taylor]

MANHATTAN’S BEST LARGE PUBLIC SQUARE

When someone mentions great urban squares, Europe springs to mind. But on further consideration, I feel Manhattan has better and perhaps more large squares than Paris, London, Rome or Berlin. The Manhattan examples are often surrounded by a greater diversity of buildings than their European counterparts --and what’s more, most are green.

A city square is a public space largely surrounded by buildings. Central Park almost fits that definition, but it’s a little too large; there are places in the park where you can completely lose your sense of being in a bounded urban space.

But even if you omit Central Park, consider the embarrassment of riches Manhattan offers.

First there’s the big twelve publicly-owned squares:

Washington Square
Bryant Park
Times Square
Union Square
Columbus Circle
Grand Army Plaza
City Hall Park
Battery Park
Tompkins Square
Madison Square
Stuyvesant Square
Herald SquareI nearly choked on my tea there!

[Kroy Wen]

If only you had......alas

[ablarc]

Washington Square: one less name on the list?

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4299&page=12

[AmeriKenArtist]

Madison Square. Bryant Park came to mind, but I had bad experiences there in the early 70's. Now it's beautiful but seems to be used by tourists and office workers.... although the movies in the evenings remind me of my fun times in Toronto...

I like the Greenmarket in Union Square. Feels neighborly. Interesting poll. Difficult to choose just one. They all have their own special qualities. Isn't it wonderful to have so many to choose from!?

Follow your mood and spend time in the square that fills your void!

[justfabulouslyme]

I'm going Washington Square on this one.

There's something touching about seeing homeless men and young children playing chess together while listening to some street music.

[JCMAN320]

I voted for Union Sq. Love the feel and street life and performers and the views of the Empire State Building and Metropolitan Life Tower lti up at night is beautiful.

[BrooklynRider]

I voted for Washington Square. While there are much prettier and better landscaped squares (Bryant Park & Madison Square immediately come to mind), Washington Square meets the criteria for a "Village Square." It is a gathering place for the whole spectrum of ages. It is regularly host to simultaneous (daily) gatherings of musicians, street artists, political advocates, pot-smokers, skate boarders, dog-walkers, sun-bathers, street vendors, etc. It is truly a community square. I think Union Square is close behind, but I think Union Square is also a transportation hub. Thank diminishes its singular role as a Village Square.

Thompkins Square is another park I find to fulfill my personal criteria for a square. Yet, I think its layout makes it less of a "square for gatherings."

[lofter1]

The City of New York / Parks Department did alot towards killing the "gatherings (http://www.wigstock.nu/history/index.html)" aspect Tompkins Square (http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_your_park/historical_signs/hs_historical_sign.php?id=12589) when they demolished the band shell (http://www.thevillager.com/villager_144/bringbackthebandshell.html) back in '91 :mad:

A view of the band shell, with police in riot helmets standing watch ...

http://www.thevillager.com/villager_144/band3.gif

tsp

[Derek2k3]

With some reworking, I think Foley Square could become one of our greatest public spaces. Unfortunately there is too little to do and the Javits building is dreadful.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/2814057055_18c924cff3_b.jpg
mudpig (http://www.flickr.com/photos/yukonblizzard/2814057055/sizes/l/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/2808032200_0183679e66_b.jpg
mudpig (http://www.flickr.com/photos/yukonblizzard/2808032200/sizes/l/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2970919797_3893a8afc7_o.jpg

James Neeley (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpn/2970919797/sizes/m/in/pool-35034350743@N01/)

[NYC4Life]

Great photos. Unfortunately, Foley Square is more Municipal than it is a place for the public to gather.