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Iftikhar
October 5th, 2006, 05:27 AM
Established 1981
London School of Islamics


An Educational Trust

63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD
Email: info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk (info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk)



www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667



An Open Letter to the British Home Secretary
The home secretary has braved a critical audience to call on Muslim parents to do more in the battle against terrorism. He asked to look for the “tell-tale signs” in their children and intervene if they suspect they are being influenced by extremists. Islam was being perverted by “fanatics” exploiting young people. These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children for suicide bombing. When he was the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, he never urged parents to monitor their children. Muslim parents shall be treated differently if their children show extreme tendencies compared to others of different faiths who may also harbour extreme tendencies.

Muslim parents have been worried about their children indulging in anti-social behavior, binge drinking, drug addiction, sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies and other social evils. Muslim children suffer bullying and racism in schools and outside the schools. Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades. Muslim parents would like their children to learn Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. Majority of Muslim youths are unemployed and even 25% of Muslim graduates are without full-time employment. Those who are lucky to be employed find bullying, discrimination and few prospects for promotion to higher positions. The number of Muslim youths in prison and mental hospitals is on the increase. The number of drug addicts is on the increase. Hundreds of overseas Muslim doctors are unemployed. Terrorism is not the issue for the Muslims. It is the creation of the West.

Muslim children are human beings with social, emotional and spiritual needs and demands. They are not just economics for the economic prosperity of the British society. They are cut off from their cultural roots and are unable to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. British schooling dislocates Muslim pupils from their cultural heritage. By the age of 16 “they are not ours, neither are they theirs”. Majority of Muslim parents wanted access to an” environment where their children can grow up with an understanding of Islam, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. The sound knowledge of ones language would appear to help – and not hinder the acquisition of a second language and bilingual children may even have slight cognitive advantages. In British schooling, priority is given to suppress the other languages in favour of English. In fact, other languages should be fostered in addition to English.

Mastery of English language is not enough for the Muslim children. If they find that they are not welcome in a country, it is difficult to find motivation for integration and education. In the past Muslims were victim of Paki-bashing in all walks of life. The British Establishment did nothing to tackle that problem and issue. Now the young Muslim generation, well versed in English is victim of terrorism by the British Establishment and thousands of Muslim youths have been searched and arrested and are behind the bar without any charges and that make them more alienated from the British society.
Iftikhar Ahmad

ablarc
October 5th, 2006, 06:49 AM
^ A viable solution is for muslims to move to where they are more welcome.

Some muslim countries might fit that criterion.

nick-taylor
October 5th, 2006, 08:01 AM
Established 1981
London School of Islamics


An Educational Trust

63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD

Email: info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk (info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk)



www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112 667

An Open Letter to the British Home Secretary

The home secretary has braved a critical audience to call on Muslim parents to do more in the battle against terrorism. He asked to look for the “tell-tale signs” in their children and intervene if they suspect they are being influenced by extremists. Islam was being perverted by “fanatics” exploiting young people. These fanatics are looking to groom and brainwash children for suicide bombing. When he was the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, he never urged parents to monitor their children. Muslim parents shall be treated differently if their children show extreme tendencies compared to others of different faiths who may also harbour extreme tendencies.

Muslim parents have been worried about their children indulging in anti-social behavior, binge drinking, drug addiction, sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies and other social evils. Muslim children suffer bullying and racism in schools and outside the schools. Majority of Muslim children leave schools with low grades. Muslim parents would like their children to learn Standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. Majority of Muslim youths are unemployed and even 25% of Muslim graduates are without full-time employment. Those who are lucky to be employed find bullying, discrimination and few prospects for promotion to higher positions. The number of Muslim youths in prison and mental hospitals is on the increase. The number of drug addicts is on the increase. Hundreds of overseas Muslim doctors are unemployed. Terrorism is not the issue for the Muslims. It is the creation of the West.

Muslim children are human beings with social, emotional and spiritual needs and demands. They are not just economics for the economic prosperity of the British society. They are cut off from their cultural roots and are unable to enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry. British schooling dislocates Muslim pupils from their cultural heritage. By the age of 16 “they are not ours, neither are they theirs”. Majority of Muslim parents wanted access to an” environment where their children can grow up with an understanding of Islam, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. The sound knowledge of ones language would appear to help – and not hinder the acquisition of a second language and bilingual children may even have slight cognitive advantages. In British schooling, priority is given to suppress the other languages in favour of English. In fact, other languages should be fostered in addition to English.

Mastery of English language is not enough for the Muslim children. If they find that they are not welcome in a country, it is difficult to find motivation for integration and education. In the past Muslims were victim of Paki-bashing in all walks of life. The British Establishment did nothing to tackle that problem and issue. Now the young Muslim generation, well versed in English is victim of terrorism by the British Establishment and thousands of Muslim youths have been searched and arrested and are behind the bar without any charges and that make them more alienated from the British society.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Interesting first post but a few key differences.

You first note his previous ministerial post in Northern Ireland, but I should be first to point out that the IRA or other terrorist groups operating in Northern Ireland didn't resort to killing themselves and as many people as possible. I personally detest the IRA and the other groups, but they opted mainly for military targets and when they did go for large-scale destruction it was economic destruction and human casualties were far lower. The London suicide bombers did not give such a warning and only wanted to kill mostly innocent people - be them good muslims or pregnant women. There are a whole host of other avenues that could have been explored but they chose to strap themselves up and kill anyone and the result has been further backlash against the muslim community.

The problem is that some muslims don't accept that they are living in Britain and that they are British and this is the crucial difference compared to all other minorities and groups in the UK. The state, the community and parents should come together to teach their children that they are British Muslims....not muslims.

I should also point out that the problems that you connect with muslim children also happen to all children in the UK - some are bullied, others young drinkers, others are normal. The fact is that a significant minority of muslims are far more disconnected to British society (French society, etc...). You evoke a situation that we should bend down to every whim of the muslim religion, despite other communities in the UK being far less well off and not pressing for such changes. Take the Somali or Bangladeshi communities - possibly two of the least well off communities in the UK - but are they running around with semtex? Are they going ape-shit over cartoons?

There is a deep-lying problem within islam and that is that it has and will continue to be twisted by various individuals to gain control. In some instances the west doesn't help the situation - eg the mess in Iraq, but I'd bet that even if there were no western people or interests in the middle east, that there would still be significant group of people who would evoke the isolationist and expansionist tendancies of Stalin against Britain, France and elsewhere.

Fact is, as ablarc mentions - you are free to leave and go to muslim countries which practice what you preach and that is how a democracy works: not dictated too by a minority or held ransom by would-be and have-been bombers.

Ninjahedge
October 5th, 2006, 09:28 AM
The thing is, everybody wants everything. You see it in small and large ways in all communities of all nationality, creed and orientation.

Most people come to the US because they know they can have a better life than where they were, and to a small extent, be heard by their new homes government. Some are disillusioned into thinking that this better life is akin to a city of gold and that things would turn around almost instantly, but there were many before them that thought the same thing and found out the truth.

People come to the US and the UK and other "free" nations in hopes that they will be able to be the same people, with some of the same things they LIKED having in their country, without having to follow the rules that they did not like. While that works in some cases and brings ethnic diversity to some areas, most of the time it leads to conflict and discord, especially when people's "likes" do not agree.

As for people being treated unfairly and bullied and all that. Like it was said earlier, this is not a rare occurrence. It happens to anyone that is different in a school as kids grow up and try to assert their social ranking in heir own small world. The more different you are than the others, the easier a target you are, be it from religion, dress, intelligence, athletic ability, accent or any other minor factor. If you are an unpopular kid and the cool kids laugh WITH you when you raz a Muslim or Indian, it is awfully hard for you to give up this new found acceptance in the name of propriety.

It is also difficult to get a communities opinions and feelings to change by writing their government official and asking them to somehow tell them to "be nice and behave".

There has to be a better way to encourage discourse and integration rather than all this selective discretization of 'heritage'.

lofter1
October 5th, 2006, 10:35 AM
An Open Letter to the British Home Secretary

... Majority of Muslim parents wanted access to an” environment where their children can grow up with an understanding of Islam, Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. The sound knowledge of ones language would appear to help – and not hinder the acquisition of a second language and bilingual children may even have slight cognitive advantages. In British schooling, priority is given to suppress the other languages in favour of English. In fact, other languages should be fostered in addition to English.

Try a private school or tutor.

Iftikhar
October 5th, 2006, 10:55 AM
Salaam

The demand for state funded Muslim schools is in accordance with the law of the land. Bilingual Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. They need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to learn Islamic Studies and Hilstory to develop Islamic Identity which is crucial for social, mental, emotional and personality development. The children from the sub-continent need to learn Urdu language to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

lofter1
October 5th, 2006, 11:26 AM
Bi-lingual teacher to teach English I understand.

Study English in school -- study native language(s) at home or by means provided by the family.

Ninjahedge
October 5th, 2006, 11:27 AM
Salaam

The demand for state funded Muslim schools is in accordance with the law of the land.

What law? Muslim schools or ARABIC schools for transition. Big diff.


Bilingual Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. They need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity.

OK, you are right with that, but.....


They need to learn Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran.

There is where you stepped off the deep end. They do not teach Hebrew in school so that kids will learn the Torah or Latin so they can read the original Bible, saying they need Arabic to read a RELIGIOUS SCRIPTURE is not what the state, or ANY state should pay for.


They need to learn Islamic Studies and History to develop Islamic Identity which is crucial for social, mental, emotional and personality development.

Although the inclusion of Islamic studies into a general curriculum is something that should be approached, they should not do that at the exclusion of history of the nation they are now in. WORLD history should be taught in the schools, and Islamic Studies should only be taught if electives were available for them to decide upon.

As for emotional and personality development, there is no solid link with that. There is a whole bit about knowledge or roots and world affairs, but somehow forcing the need for special education oriented for them and them alone does not promote development, but rather more isolation from the mainstream. That is not integrating them into a whole, but bringing them in as a separate entity that wants to be recognized as such, rather than to be accepted as PART of the whole.


The children from the sub-continent need to learn Urdu language to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.

Um, no.

They do not NEED to, but they can WANT to. If enough are there that want that as an elective, then they should make it available, just like French, Spanish, Latin, German, Chinese or any one of a number of languages taught in many schools around this country and others.

Demanding that they teach one language as a required one in certain areas is not a fair thing to ask the general public to pay for or require. If you want your child to learn Urdu, YOU teach them! If the bookstores do not have the books you need, tell them. If you are willing to buy something from a store, and there are enough of you, they WILL have it!

And, if you can get 20-30 kids together that want to take Urdu as a language, you can petition the state or your local board of education to try to include that language as an elective.

Demanding it as a basic component of their education is not the same as asking. And saying that they will lose their heritage because of it is ludicrous.

ablarc
October 10th, 2006, 07:55 AM
I want a Bentley, and I want the government to buy it for me.

lofter1
October 10th, 2006, 09:14 AM
Are you Kuwaiti? :confused: ;)

nick-taylor
October 10th, 2006, 10:52 AM
Salaam

The demand for state funded Muslim schools is in accordance with the law of the land. Bilingual Muslim children need bilingual Muslim teachers as role models. They need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to learn Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to learn Islamic Studies and Hilstory to develop Islamic Identity which is crucial for social, mental, emotional and personality development. The children from the sub-continent need to learn Urdu language to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of their literature and poetry.What a load of crap - I'm sorry but you've got it completely wrong.

Jewish, Catholic, CoE, etc....schools are funded primarily not by the state, but by their respective bodies (ie my Roman Catholic Secondary was supported by the Roman Catholic Church, with some funding from local government - but no way near to that of the level at state schools). These schools can also not directly prejudice against other faiths (hence some state funding), so a school for Muslims would be in the context that it would be funded by a muslim organisation/body, BUT allow non-muslims to attend which would mean the school could gain from state funding. These schools however can not and I repeat, not force children to commit to change religious beliefs, or enforce their own educational content. That means a state school, a private school, a Jewish school, a Hindu school, a Roman Catholic school or a Muslim school would all have to coduct studies practically similar to each other according to the variety of examination boards that assess all students as equal - no matter what school or background they come from.

It is thus rubbish to expect the state to subsidise muslims schools above all other schools - be it another religion, state or private as not only would that would create increasing tensions towards the muslim community but cripple the meritocratic-based education system of the UK which has one of the highest standards in the world for such reasons.

What I also find worrying is how you refer to them as muslim children - they are clearly not this, they are British muslim children and it is because of this disattachment from British society that we had the 7/7 attacks and why there are hotbeds of muslim extremists.

They also don't need to be bilingual for the simple fact that the individuals parents, friends and family can support them in this regard. Also when the child has developed sufficient understanding of their surroundings (ie around 16 when children begin to choose their units), they can undertake further studies if there is sufficient backing for such a subject. If there isn't then like with everything, there are countless courses that can be attended. The simple fact is, again why should muslims be held above every other person in the UK? Hordes of people manage to adopt to use english despite Britain not necessarily being their birth country without problem, yet there are certain immams and the like who command tremendous power and object to learn, let alone speak English because of its association with British society. Which brings me onto another point - those individuals who are quick to incite racial hatred, the murder of innocents and others and the destruction of the UK - yet forget that they have the freedom to preach such bile because Britain is a free and tolerant society because it isn't a failed islam dominated country. They also seem to contradict themselves - by wanting to destroy capitalism and the welfare state despite these individuals being able to rake in benefit cheques because they are unemployed or have other problems. Yet where are the voices from the British Muslim societies to put them back in their place? Where? You rarely if ever see muslims coming out in such passion against other muslims as they do against non-muslims.

And you know what - you can leave, there are countries that cater to islam, but while islam is a minority in Britain it can not dictate to others what they want and blame everyone but themselves when anything goes wrong. There is a rot inside islam and the fact that you haven't replied to any of my points highlights my recurring concern - you aren't accountable, but expect everyone else to be for you .

ablarc
October 10th, 2006, 12:25 PM
nick, I agree with pretty much everything you say. Folks who immigrate need to learn to show more deference to their hosts --not the other way around.

The alternative is to stay put.

Ninjahedge
October 10th, 2006, 01:31 PM
Guys, you can read my post and see where I m coming from but keep in mind one important thing.

Some of these people came to our countries for the simple purpose of being ABLE to say things, and ask for things like this without being arrested, hurt or killed.

They are free to ask for whatever they want, even demand it. But if they think they are somehow entitled to all that they ask for, then they must also realize that while you can petition for certain things, that right does not mean you are entitled to what you are petitioning for.

Embrace the freedom and enjoy it, but always be wary of not only what you ask for, but how, or you might end up losing the one priveledge that you were granted as soon as you crossed the border.

Ask a man for a glass of water and he may or may not give it to you.

Ask a man for a glass of water by burning his car and you might get more than you asked for.

nick-taylor
October 10th, 2006, 03:10 PM
Exactly - the US is lucky in the respect that the number of muslims is lower than in countries like France (has experienced Algerian Muslim terrorist attacks), Britain and Germany (I believe they luckily escaped a Madrid-type commuter attack because the bombs failed just over a month ago).

It doesn't matter about Iraq, Palestine or anything - there are some seriously sick individuals within our society that are being warped or warping others to commit such acts because for some reason they just snap. You rarely see this with any other religion or ethnicity, so there has to be a deep look at the religion itself to understand why it is dictated by terrorists and non-democratic governments.

Yet the sad thing is, because of a minority of idiots, the majority suffer - tons of muslims in the UK go about their lives like anyone else and they are the ones that get the abuse from idiots and the population for failing to do something.

nick-taylor
October 12th, 2006, 02:40 PM
This graphic from The Times today illustrates in my view the most realistic view of the average Brits perspective on muslims. I think it shows two things:
- Firstly that Brits recognise and generally accept the average muslim individual to be of a benefit to Britain
- Secondly that Brits view that the muslim community tends to look inwards rather than outwards and that because of this fanatical influences have arisen to dominate certain muslim communities


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,351111,00.jpg