Times Square to be Pedestrianized

[gradvmedusa]

The bowtie of Times Square is supposed to be entirely given over to pedestrians according to curbed/streets blog. I think this is good news. After having experinced the wonderful pedistrianized streets of Istanbul/Thailand and Tokyo I think this could be a sign of good things to come in Manhattan. Less room for cars means more room for people and the things people like to do! Drink/Eat/Shop etc...

[ryan]

Excellent news. So happy to see the pendulum start to swing. Now if someone could please do something about widening the sidewalks on Madison Avenue...

[ZippyTheChimp]

DOT Announces Pedestrian Safety Improvements For Times Square


Release # 06-56
Thursday October 12, 2006

New York City Department of Transportation (DOT) Commissioner Iris Weinshall, along with the President of the Times Square Alliance, Tim Tompkins, today announced that the vehicle crossover between 7 th Avenue and Broadway in Times Square will be closed beginning November 4 th. The closing of the cross-over and the re-striping of the streets will allow DOT to provide 50% more sidewalk space for pedestrians throughout this heavily traveled neighborhood. The reconfiguration of the streets is a temporary change which will be in effect until DOT has completed its evaluation on the closure’s effects on vehicular and pedestrian traffic.

“We are continually looking for ways to provide more space for pedestrians to walk through this busy area,” said DOT Commissioner Iris Weinshall. “ Times Square has some of the heaviest pedestrian volumes in the City so this is a great opportunity to experiment with reconfiguring the flow of traffic and creating larger sidewalks to provide more space for pedestrians.”

"This is a bold and innovative step to address the number one safety concern and quality of life issue in Times Square -- intense pedestrian congestion on our sidewalks," said Alliance President Tim Tompkins. "We applaud DOT for exploring this out-of-the box solution and carefully testing its traffic impact before deciding to fully implement it."

Since over 13,000 pedestrians an hour crowd the sidewalks and overflow into the roadways in Times Square during the busiest parts of the day, DOT made pedestrian improvements in 2001 by installing plastic delineators which increased sidewalk space along 7th Avenue between West 45th and West 44th streets and along Broadway between West 44th and West 42nd streets. These temporary improvements will be made permanent in 2008. The closure of the crossover will allow DOT to provide even more space for pedestrians. Broadway between 46th and 47th streets and 7th Avenue between 42nd and 47th streets will see significant sidewalk expansions.

Beginning on November 4th, vehicles traveling on Broadway will continue along 7th Avenue south of West 45th Street. Vehicles traveling on 7th Avenue will continue on Broadway south of West 45th street – they will no longer have the option of crossing over to 7th Avenue. New signs directing drivers how to proceed have been hung on large mast arms and will be uncovered on November 4th, and variable message boards will be activated to alert drivers of the changing road pattern. In addition to the closure of the cross-over, the test will change bike lane configurations, the number of roadway travel lanes and curb-side regulations.

Evaluations will consist of traffic counts at 16 locations, turning movement counts at 8 locations, travel times and speeds from uptown locations to West 34 th street and visual observations from DOT’s Traffic Management Center. Once evaluations have been completed DOT will decide whether or not to make the changes permanent.

###

Contact: Kay Sarlin/ 212-442-7033
Ted Timbers

[ablarc]

Any drawings?

[baz@eccose]

sounds good , but as a general view from across the pond and i hope yous dont mind me throwing it in the ring, New york, times square has always be know for its hussle , cars ,yellow cabs everywhere, as well as people, do you think this could take away this title or impression? as obviously a practical way it does make sence, done alot of improvements in Glasgow city centre and its makes sence, be very interesting to see how they go about this

baz

[Fabrizio]

^I agree. TS is going to be a different place, less "city". Then they´ll add the trees and planters, street furniture and assorted junk.

[lofter1]

Doubt they will add many trees -- subway stations / tracks directly below.

The interim sidewalk-widening has been in effect for awhile now (plastic "bollards" marking off a lane of traffic here and there, asphalt additions to the sidewalks in other places) and it's been a start to keep pedestrians moving -- but many of the tourists don't quite get it and continue to stay on the not-nearly-big-enough sidewalks. The result is that pedestrians, for the most part, just get bottled up. Meanwhile some NYers move quickly along their way using the interim spaces -- or just move right out into the street and walk with the traffic.

Since traffic moving south into TS on Broadway will no longer have the option of continuing south on Broadway out of TS they're going to have to keep an eye oin left turns from 7th towards Broadway on 41st / 39th or those intersections will start getting bottled up (same situation above TS where traffic might try to jump from Broadway to 7th so they can continue south diagonally across Manhattan instead of getting tossed into the Penn Station mess at 7th / 32nd).

The work around Father Duffy Square / TKTS island at the north end of TS is coming along -- new wider pedestrian areas have been put in and it seems that they've finished the grating installation for the subway below -- all the preliminary electric / plumbing connections for the new TKTS "amphitheater" look to be in place and construction of the above-ground parts of that new structure should begin soon.

The new "pedestrian friendly" -- and treeless -- Father Duffy Square (http://www.timessquarenyc.org/facts/duffy.html) ( TKTS Thread Here (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3690&highlight=tkts) ) :

http://timessquarenyc.org/facts/images/Duffy_Square_Booklet01.gif

http://timessquarenyc.org/facts/images/Duffy_Square_Booklet08.gif
Renderings: William Fellows Architects

[ryan]

I disagree with cars=city. The times square of movies and the wider popular imagination was gone a long time ago with the porn. (and the only hustle is pissed of ny-ers pushing past the stationary tourists).

I don't have any attachment to TS myself, I'm happy to see it used as a laboratory for car-free (or at least car-less) streets.

[baz@eccose]

yes bud, your quite correct, you would defo have the better opnion on ny than me, you are lucky enough to live there, i can only reply on what i have heard from friends and family that have been, im planning to go next year for my 30th, just going on my experience from glasgow, it certainly has its pros and cons


baz

[Fabrizio]

Lofter: That illustration is amazing. A wide empty expanse IS the way to go. One would expect the usual planters and flower beds, tall grass, weeds, sunflowers and corn. This is nice.

[lofter1]

Something you have to envison there ^^^ are the hundreds (thousands?) of hopeful people who start lining up @ 12 Noon to get tickets for shows at the TKTS booth (at the opposite end of the red staircase) -- the line will snake all around this square, so it will be filled with people all afternoon. (While the square is under construction the booth / lines have been moved to enclosed pedestrian pass-thru at the Marriott Marquis Hotel just west of B'way / 46th.)

Once the TKTS booth closes @ 7:30 PM hopefully the square will be taken over by people just hanging out and having a good time.

Once complete it's going to be a great addition to TS, especially since there will be a lot more room on the square (they've widened the southern end by about 75%).

How it used to be:


http://www.blacktable.com/images/0408pics/rnc/whitney/tkts.jpg
Times Square protest?
Even worse.
The line for discount matinees at the TKTS booth.

The new plan over-laid with a photo of the crowds pre-constuction (doesn't include the widening of sidewalks -- notice all the folks in the streets):

http://www.metropolismag.com/images/images_0400/ob/tkts.jpg

[MidtownGuy]

The seating is brilliant. It will get loads of use. The idea reminds me of Rome's Spanish Steps.

[Strattonport]

This is fantastic news. More space given to the people, the way it should be in a place like Times Square.

[NewYorkJets]

I'm kind of disappointed. Times Square's known for it's hustle and bustle of people and cabs. I think it's great the way it is. Just maybe some more skyscrapers around it.

[pianoman11686]

Times Square traffic plan unveiled by city

by patrick arden / metro new york (http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/Times_Square_traffic_plan_unveiled_by_city/5098.html)

OCT 13, 2006

TIMES SQUARE — The city announced a traffic plan here yesterday intended to make streets safer and to provide more space for pedestrians.

Beginning Nov. 4, the vehicle crossover between Seventh Avenue and Broadway will be closed, forcing cars and trucks traveling on Seventh to continue on Broadway south of 45th Street. Posted signs will tell these drivers they no longer have the option of crossing over to Seventh. Taxis make up two-thirds of the cars using the crossover during peak hours.

The street reconfiguration will be temporary until its full effects are studied after six months, but yesterday Iris Weinshall, commissioner of the city’s Department of Transportation, said the change will lead to one big improvement: larger sidewalks.

“Anyone who’s walked through Times Square knows that it requires squeezing, standing and twisting your body to get through the crowd,” Weinshall said. “Our engineers have counted over 13,000 pedestrians an hour in this area, and these sidewalks are simply not big enough to handle the crowds. We’ve also found that the crossover is the site of the most vehicular accidents of any of the intersections along this stretch of road — two to three times as many [accidents] in some cases.

“With the help of our new signs going up along Broadway and Seventh Avenue, drivers will be able to adjust to the new traffic pattern, and we will have created up to 50 percent more pedestrian space throughout the neighborhood.”

While the change will bring “significant sidewalk expansions” on Broadway between 46th and 47th streets and along Seventh Avenue between 42nd and 47th streets, the change will also mean the end of one bus stop and the closing of a bicycle lane on Seventh. The plan was advocated by the area’s business improvement district, the Times Square Alliance.

“The same way that crime was a problem for Times Square 20 years ago, the intense congestion on the street is our new quality-of-life issue,” said Tim Tompkins, president of the TSA. “In the longer term, it threatens people’s willingness to come to Times Square.”

© 2006 Metro. All Rights Reserved.

[ablarc]

Interesting to see how this pans out.

[milleniumcab]

Less road?....:eek::eek::eek:....

But if they have to do it anywhere, it is TS... I certainly understand... I'll live with it...Altough it would be a much easier to live with if they eliminate the pedi-cabs and the spider-bikes along with the bike lanes....

[gradvmedusa]

Eliminate the bike lanes?! Are you serious? This city is absolutely dreadful when it comes to bike friendlyness. I dream of a Manhattan where a child can safely bike just about anywhere on the island. I want dedicated and seperated bike lanes, secure bike parking lots and an overall increase in respect for bikes by drivers (and vice versa).

[BPC]

The new plan does not go nearly far enough. Either Broadway or Seventh Avenue should be pedestrianized in its entirety at Times Square. There is no reason for TWO downtown avenues to be running through TS.

[ablarc]

There is no reason for TWO downtown avenues to be running through TS.
Keep from having traffic jams.

[ryan]

You'd have to tear the buildings down and build an interstate to avoid traffic jams. Ideally, the minority of people getting around by car should get a slice of road proportional to their numbers.

[BPC]

I once saw a proposal to make Broadway fully pedestrian from Columbus Circle all the way down to MSG at 34th Street. I think if you added a light rail/trolley, it might actually work. Downtown car traffic could take 7th Avenue.

[ablarc]

You'd have to tear the buildings down and build an interstate to avoid traffic jams.
They did just that most places in the U.S. and it didn't eliminate traffic jams. But it did eliminate the cities.

Ideally, the minority of people getting around by car should get a slice of road proportional to their numbers.
Or possibly better still, none at all.

It's the cabs, delivery trucks and emergency vehicles you do need to accommodate and keep from getting stuck in traffic; they're an indispensable part of the city's infrastructure, and they represent the lion's share of Manhattan traffic anyway. It wouldn't bother me in the least if private cars were banned in Manhattan --or at least a congestion charge instituted.

It doesn't advance discussion to set up straw men and knock them down. The interstate idea was purely yours, and entirely rhetorical. No one but you has advocated it, and they don't prevent traffic jams. Haven't you noticed?

[ablarc]

I once saw a proposal to make Broadway fully pedestrian from Columbus Circle all the way down to MSG at 34th Street. I think if you added a light rail/trolley, it might actually work. Downtown car traffic could take 7th Avenue.
And there's a proposal making the rounds to do that on 42nd Street.

[ablarc]

The new plan does not go nearly far enough. Either Broadway or Seventh Avenue should be pedestrianized in its entirety at Times Square. There is no reason for TWO downtown avenues to be running through TS.
Give it a chance; I think the present proposal strikes a judicious balance. You need cabs, delivery trucks, emergency vehicles and even those double-decker tourbuses --maybe even those rubbernecking out-of-staters cruising in their cars. Eliminating the connection between 7th Avenue and Broadway may be all the adjustment traffic patterns need or can tolerate. It allows substantial widening of the sidewalk --which after all was the original impetus for reconfiguring the square.

[milleniumcab]

Eliminate the bike lanes?! Are you serious? This city is absolutely dreadful when it comes to bike friendlyness. I dream of a Manhattan where a child can safely bike just about anywhere on the island. I want dedicated and seperated bike lanes, secure bike parking lots and an overall increase in respect for bikes by drivers (and vice versa).

Hey, it's not my idea to eliminate the bike lanes in TS. The city came up with that one. Read the article carefully...:mad: ...

Which bike riders you want respect for?..Messengers?..Pedi cabs?..Recreatioanl riders in CP?...How about them respecting the rules of the road?..Little things like stopping for red lights..Not weaving in and out of the traffic..Belive it or not, staying within the speed limit(30 mph)...

By the way both of my kids grew up in the city..They did not ride their bikes in the streets..We have Central park for that..Anyone riding a bike for recreational purposes does not have to ride in TS..We have proper bike lanes for that purpose.. You can ride from lets say GWB to all the way to Battery Park..Is that not enough?..Why would you want your kids to ride their bikes in the middle of the city?.. That one I don't understand..
So do not come to me with that nonsense about having bike lanes in the middle of the city for recreational riding...NYC is a little too busy for that..

[antinimby]

You tell 'em, millenium. :D

[lofter1]

What about biking for commuters?

NYC could be much more forward-looking in that direction -- although I've sworn off of it due to the number of times that suddenly-opening car doors have nearly taken me out.

ergo: I'm forced to stick with separate "designated" bike paths (rather than the ones that are merely painted on the avenues) that don't come into proximity with cars.

[Ninjahedge]

I bladed for a while in NYC to get from A to B. The same problems arise all over the place. Yuo have bike lanes, but the damn DHL or Fed Ex truck wil be parked there. OR you get a cab to pull up right in front of you and cut you off OR they are sitting there when someone in the back seat does not check before flinging the door open.

The thing is, I agree that messengers, delivery people and pedicabs are a nuisance, but at least TWO of them are needed in NYC (I still see little need for those slow moving, space hogging, rule ignoring pedi-cabs). The only thing is, they should be forced to follow the rules like everyone else (red lights, stop signs, NO RIDING ON THE SIDEWALK, etc etc).

I also think they should impliment a congestion charge and try to do things like close off chinatown from ANY vehicular traffic during buisness hours (It would help with refuse collection, street cleaning, and the HEAVY pedestrian traffic). I believe areas like TS should have mass transit and other transportation available, but other things should not be given dominance over pedestrian travel. When you have intersections that are SO busy that when the light is red you cannot walk around them without going out into traffic it is time to look at a way to accomodate it.

In a city like this, mass transit and pedestrian travel should be top dogs when it comes to any transportation initiatives.

[milleniumcab]

The city can try all they want but unless they eliminate some of the cars coming in, the situation will not improve much for anybody..

[MidtownGuy]

When you have intersections that are SO busy that when the light is red you cannot walk around them without going out into traffic it is time to look at a way to accomodate it.

yeah...Chinatown really could use less cars. Is there some way to at least reduce the lanes on Canal and widen the sidewalks?

[milleniumcab]

yeah...Chinatown really could use less cars. Is there some way to at least reduce the lanes on Canal and widen the sidewalks?

Canal Street connects to Manhattan Bridge on the east side and Holland Tunnel on the west side...How is that possible?....

[Ninjahedge]

You prevent parking on both sides (which I think they do), you provide signals with turn lanes, and yuo make it so less cars travel on it!! ;)

I think that area would be great if it was penned off. Anyone who has driven through CT (try Mott street, if you want) knows that that area is not car-friendly, especially with all the shops set up on the sidewalk and people parking anywhere they can fit.

I think more parking has to be made available somewhere, and at affordable costs for RESIDENTS AND OWNERS IN THE AREA and then just pen the streets off between 7am and 10pm. Deliveries can be made at night, and street cleaning and garbage collection could also be done then, but no all-night parking allowed.

When they had "China fest" or whatever it was there and they had the streets clear, it was like a giant pedestrian mall! It was so much nicer! And I think, so long as you allowed the shop owners to set up to the curb (NO FURTHER) they would not have as much of a problem with the no-parking rules....

[Strattonport]

Congestion pricing anyone?

[lofter1]

I'm all for it -- it could be the best thing to happen to NYC since the subway.

[lofter1]

How is that possible?....

Get rid of the "one way" fare on the Verrazzano Bridge

[milleniumcab]

What would Staten Islanders have to say to that?...I wonder Lofter1...SIE would probably become one of the biggest parking lots in the States...

[milleniumcab]

Congestion charge is a must... Also HOV 2 requirement between 6 and 10 am will help...They will have to do it in the near future..

[lofter1]

SIE would probably become one of the biggest parking lots in the States...
So why shouldn't Staten Islanders join in the fun that those of us who live in SoHo / Chinatown get to experience???

[milleniumcab]

I guess they should...

[LeCom]

I actually like the Times Square crowds, they are more of a local landmark than any skyscraper in the area, but sometimes it does get on your nerves. And all the crowds around the area in December are a sight to behold (but not experience).

[Fahzee]

the crowds never bother me too much.
Now the guys trying to get me on a tour bus, tell me about the best improv ever, or convert me to scientology.....