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ablarc
October 31st, 2006, 05:22 PM
DINNER IS SERVED IN THE DINING CAR…

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/diningcar/01.jpg

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ablarc
October 31st, 2006, 05:24 PM
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ablarc
October 31st, 2006, 05:25 PM
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Afterward, we can retire to the club car…

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/diningcar/22.jpg

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ablarc
October 31st, 2006, 05:26 PM
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OmegaNYC
October 31st, 2006, 07:12 PM
People still ride trains??? What is this? The 1860's? :)

ablarc
October 31st, 2006, 09:05 PM
^ Those in color are currently in use.

Luca
November 1st, 2006, 02:57 AM
Some very nice ones, too. I wish there was a 'club car' from Chiswick into the City but, alas, no such luck.

Gregory Tenenbaum
November 1st, 2006, 04:43 AM
Great photos!

I love travelling by train, and when I am on the West Coast, I prefer Pacific Car Diner, Los Angeles.

As featured in the film "Training Day"

It actually used to be a detached dining car. Now its a building. Look for the 2 black bulls.

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/rg01/pacificdining.html

http://www.pacificdiningcar.com/

ablarc
November 1st, 2006, 08:02 AM
I wish there was a 'club car' from Chiswick into the City but, alas, no such luck.
Homeward bound you'd only have time for a quick nip or two. Does that trip take even thirty minutes?

Chiswick is newly fashionable, no?

Luca
November 2nd, 2006, 02:43 AM
Homeward bound you'd only have time for a quick nip or two. Does that trip take even thirty minutes?

Chiswick is newly fashionable, no?

If we assume stops on the way, it's more like 35-40 minutes, yes.

I dunno if you could call Chiswick fashionable. There are a number of Tv poersoanlities adn celebs livign there because the housign stock is ncie, it;'s very ciovnenient for wqest lonfdon hotspots like Notting Hill and it's pthe clsoest reasoanbly affordable nice neighborhood to White City 9the BBC complex). Also, a lto of people whos tart out as singles/couples in Chelsea and south Ken mvoe to chicwick for the bigger house when they ahve kids (touche').

What has changed a lot is the restaurant scene with La Trompette (http://www.latrompette.co.uk/) and High Road Brasserie (http://www.highroadbrasserie.co.uk/) among the rash of relatively new, top notch restaurants.

ablarc
November 2nd, 2006, 10:52 PM
I dunno if you could call Chiswick fashionable.
Once upon a time you could.

William Kent designed Chiswick’s most distinguished residence:

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/chiswick/01.jpg
Classic on the axis…

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/chiswick/02.jpg
…baroque when seen obliquely. Palladio unlikely to have pulled this one.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/chiswick/03.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/chiswick/04.jpg

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/chiswick/05.jpg

Have they furnished the interior yet?

Luca
November 3rd, 2006, 02:55 AM
Dunno; haven't visited in a while. I don't think so, the renovation has proceeded slowly. Lovely park, though.

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 08:27 AM
I wish there was a 'club car' from Chiswick into the City
Do you have to change trains?

nick-taylor
November 10th, 2006, 09:36 AM
^^ As a London rail nut, Luca either uses Chiskwick Park Tube Station which is on the District Line (Piccadilly Line trains act as an express along this stretch and don't stop here), with all trains going eastwards to the City.

The other station is Chiswick Railway Station which is on the Hounslow Loop Line offering 6tph off-peak - a commuter line within London that runs out of London Waterloo and then back into after going around the loop. London Waterloo then connects to Bank (traditionally viewed as the 'heart' of the Square Mile') via the Waterloo & City Line or locally known as the drain due its shuttle service between the two stations and no stops inbetween.

The later is closer to Chiswick House. :D

Luca
November 10th, 2006, 01:20 PM
^^ As a London rail nut....

You poor man! :D


^^ Luca either uses Chiskwick Park Tube Station ...The other station is Chiswick Railway Station

Close: Turnham Green




and yes, Ablarc, I do have to change. I was just fantasizing about a 30/40 min ride in a proper club car, rather than the god-awful tube cattle-trucks I have to ride in...:(

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 02:00 PM
I was just fantasizing about a 30/40 min ride in a proper club car, rather than the god-awful tube cattle-trucks I have to ride in...:(
In another thread it's pointed out that MetroNorth is packed to standing room and has more riders than ever before. Despite this it loses money.

This is used as blanket proof that you can't make money on commuter rail. But is this true?

What if there were first class club cars available on commuter rail? At a hard day's end, would sometimes you and some of your ilk ease gratefully into the lounger or sidle anticipatorily up to the bar? Would you be willing sometimes to pay twice (or even thrice) the fare for the comfort, the space and the bonhommie of a luxo club car like the ones illustrated? Would you furthermore pack away a stiff Tanqueray or three, further boosting the profitability of the trip for TfL? On the morning commute, could you be tempted by eggs, bacon, scones and hot coffee?

Paris' Metro used to have a double-fare first class section to which the well-heeled or weary retired for little more than freedom from the unwashed and a thin layer of seat padding.

Let the oligarchs have their luxuries, particularly if it subsidizes the rest of us.

What do you think?

pianoman11686
November 10th, 2006, 02:43 PM
There's only one problem with that: you said it's already standing-room only, but if you convert some cars to first-class, you're obviously going to lose seats.

It's times like these when I'm forced to ask myself: why not totally privatize transportation again? Sure, we can give subsidies in times of crisis, as with the airliners, but overall, I think the private sector will be more efficient in running an operation like Metro North. And even then, making certain cars first-class isn't a guarantee of better revenues: the so-called low-cost carriers, Southwest and JetBlue come to mind, are also the most profitable of the airlines. No first-class, no business-class. What's the reason? They're the best at minimizing the inefficient crap, i.e.: bureaucracy.

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 03:00 PM
There's only one problem with that: you said it's already standing-room only, but if you convert some cars to first-class, you're obviously going to lose seats.
Club cars are in addition to the regular carriages, not in place of.


What's the reason? They're the best at minimizing the inefficient crap, i.e.: bureaucracy.
No bureaucracy at the club car bar. If the barkeep's bureaucratic, you don't leave him a tip. :cool:

.

kz1000ps
November 10th, 2006, 03:05 PM
And to think Amtrak recently cut ALL food service on their trains between Albany and NYC.

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 03:09 PM
^ There was no glamour to it anyway. People will pay $5 for a grilled cheese sandwich if it's served on a porcelain plate in overstuffed surroundings. And $10 if it's accompanied by a draught of Newcastle Pale.

pianoman11686
November 10th, 2006, 04:50 PM
Club cars are in addition to the regular carriages, not in place of.

Don't you think that adding additional cars will create some kind of trouble? Either safety standards, or unloading/loading of passengers could be affected by making a train longer.


No bureaucracy at the club car bar. If the barkeep's bureaucratic, you don't leave him a tip. :cool:

Funny. But the way I was looking at it was, bureaucracy in terms of "pork". Private companies, especially smaller ones, are better at minimizing this. Agree?

nick-taylor
November 10th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Luca then doesn't use South West Trains as I thought he might as he uses the Piccadilly Line (express) or District Line (local) of the London Underground...ie not commuter rail.

That said there are commuter trains (there are no less than 17 heavy rail companies operating in and around London operating thousands of trains) which do have first class carriages. Infact train services coming from the metro area tend to have first class carriages depending on their stopping patterns. Quite a few trains though offer food carts (coffee, sandwiches, sweets, etc...) which go up and down the train even through standard class.

Below is the Heathrow Express First Class
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/electric/emu-ac/332/332014-interior-01.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/electric/emu-ac/332/HEx-firstclass.jpg


And Standard Class:

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/electric/emu-ac/332/332014-interior-02.jpg




However the nicest interior of any train operating from London is probaby that of the 'British Pullman' trains for the Venice Simplon Orient Express

http://static.flickr.com/7/9999334_6abaedd1ad_b.jpg


http://static.flickr.com/35/72194362_2141c4c9a4_b.jpg

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 08:45 PM
^ Can't help feeling that if more trains looked like the Venice-Simplon Express, there'd be customers. The trains need to be fast of course, but plush interiors don't slow down a train. A little more luxury please; the Heathrow Express is awful.

Thanks, nick.

pianoman11686
November 10th, 2006, 09:14 PM
Pullman...isn't that an American company?

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Pullman...isn't that an American company?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pullman

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Don't you think that adding additional cars will create some kind of trouble? Either safety standards, or unloading/loading of passengers could be affected by making a train longer.
If the train's already as long as the platform, substitute a club car for a cattle car and run another train ten minutes later. Put two or more club cars on that one, since the idea is the club cars make money. Like a rolling pub.


Funny. But the way I was looking at it was, bureaucracy in terms of "pork". Private companies, especially smaller ones, are better at minimizing this. Agree?
Yeah, I agree. That was me being ablarc the obtuse.

pianoman11686
November 10th, 2006, 10:56 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pullman

From the article:


The Pullman Company merged in 1930 with Standard Steel Car Company to become Pullman-Standard, which built its last car for Amtrak in 1982. After delivery the Pullman-Standard plant stayed in limbo, eventually shut down, and in 1987 had its remaining assets absorbed by Bombardier.

Thought so. I wonder how the British got their hands on them...


If the train's already as long as the platform, substitute a club car for a cattle car and run another train ten minutes later. Put two or more club cars on that one, since the idea is the club cars make money. Like a rolling pub.

I didn't want to say it was impossible, just that it might not be quite as simple as adding one car here, taking away another car there. Every time I hear about our current transportation system, it's always something to the tune of "Penn Station operating over-capacity," subways being more crowded than ever, and additional planes having difficulty navigating taxiways.

Let me put it this way: if the goal of the organization is to maximize revenues, then by all means, experiment with a first/business class car. If the goal is to transport as many people as efficiently as possible, then we might need to keep the "cattle" system. It's up to those in charge to find the best solution. But as I said before, that solution will depend largely on who's ultimately paying the bills: the government, or a private company.

ablarc
November 10th, 2006, 11:41 PM
I didn't want to say it was impossible, just that it might not be quite as simple as adding one car here, taking away another car there. Every time I hear about our current transportation system, it's always something to the tune of "Penn Station operating over-capacity," subways being more crowded than ever, and additional planes having difficulty navigating taxiways.

Let me put it this way: if the goal of the organization is to maximize revenues, then by all means, experiment with a first/business class car. If the goal is to transport as many people as efficiently as possible, then we might need to keep the "cattle" system...
With bi-level coaches you could add three club cars to each train and still maintain capacity.

Or how 'bout bi-level club cars with vista-domes?

Luca
November 13th, 2006, 02:41 AM
http://static.flickr.com/7/9999334_6abaedd1ad_b.jpg



Now THAT's what I'm talking about!!!

I'm a afraid a proper club car would cost quite a bit more than double, though, ABLARC. More like 3-4 times at least (if only becuase it should/could not pack as many people in).

ablarc
November 13th, 2006, 07:02 AM
^ Sell 'em overpriced drinks. Or extend the platforms for longer trains.

ablarc
January 17th, 2008, 10:24 PM
Train operator MAV will re-introduce old-timey sleepers on the Brussels-Budapest-Istanbul line. New overnight lines operated with this rolling stock are also planned from Budapest to Krakow, Gdansk and Venice.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0100.jpg

How about New York-Atlanta? Depart Penn Station at 6pm, arrive refreshed following morning at seven after a great dinner and breakfast?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0200.jpg

Or New York-Chicago?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0300.jpg

Or how 'bout Washington-Orlando?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0400.jpg

San Francisco-Seattle?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0500.jpg

Los Angeles-Las Vegas?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0600.jpg

Your rental car awaits you at your destination.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/sleeper/0800.jpg



Thanks to tersyxus at ssc for the pics.

Meerkat
January 19th, 2008, 08:31 PM
^ very nice interiors. Far nicer than my experience of sleeper trains - a 48 hour journey across India - absolute hell.

Anyway, i've always liked trains, so thanks for posting these pictures - thats what a train interior is supposed to look like (like in the days when my gt gt grandad was a train driver). I'd certainly consider travelling by sleeper train through Europe - or anywhere else for that matter - if they were like these, even with a slower journey time (than flying). Far nicer than the trains i use: 'one railway', more like cattle trucks than trains.

When will MAV be introducing these trains?

ablarc
January 20th, 2008, 05:10 PM
^ Rolling stock deliveries begin in April.

MidtownGuy
January 20th, 2008, 05:20 PM
I would love to travel this way. Budapest to Istanbul sounds amazing!!!

ablarc
January 20th, 2008, 05:50 PM
^ That run used to come with (optional) ladies.



(Made the trip seem shorter.)

Meerkat
January 20th, 2008, 08:25 PM
^ Do you mean prostitutes? (sorry, maybe a bit naive of me to ask....)

ablarc
January 20th, 2008, 08:50 PM
From Time Magazine, October 31, 1960:

OFF GOES THE ORIENT EXPRESS.

The French President and a special envoy of the Sultan of Turkey were on the flag-bedecked platform at Paris' Care de I'Est when the Orient Express chugged proudly off on its maiden trip to Constantinople in 1883.

On that first trip, the 2,000-odd miles took six days and six hours, what with all the border ceremonies and crowds along the track.* The seats had velvet covers topped by Brussels lace, and lush damask .curtains hung from the windows; the fittings were of solid oak and mahogany; on the outside of every car was a coat of arms and the proud gold lettering, "Les Grands Express Européens." Hand-cut glass separated the sleeping compartment from the outside aisle.

In elegant salon cars, diners lingered over oysters and chilled glasses of Veuve Cliquot served by attendants in morning coats, light blue silk breeches, white stockings and buckled shoes. Elegant prostitutes provided companionship for the lonely on the long journey to the Orient.
Spies & Vanishing Briefcases. For decades the Orient Express served as grist for the mills of novelists (e.g., Agatha Christie, Graham Greene, Eric Ambler), who conjured up (a) fur-wrapped beauties from Hungary in conspiratorial conversation with spies in the corridor, (b) muffled sobs in the next compartment, or (c) vanishing briefcases.

The only things that ever really vanished were the good service and the passengers. By the 1920s most of the lush old cars had been replaced with stern steel models, and the porters wore drab brown, offering special attention only when the palm was well greased with hard currency in advance. Then came airplanes and the Iron Curtain. By last year the traffic on the old line between Vienna and Bucharest was down to an average 1½ passengers per trip.

Last week the coldly practical railroad experts of Europe, meeting in Leningrad, were agreed: the old Orient Express no longer paid its way, must therefore be eliminated. Now anyone who wanted to spend two days traveling to Istanbul would have to endure the slicker, upstart Simplon-Orient Express, which swings south through Switzerland into Italy and then on across Yugoslavia, delivering its passengers efficiently enough but without the luxury their grandfathers had known.

*By 1905 it was down to a snappy two days twelve hours.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,938673,00.html?promoid=googlep

ablarc
January 20th, 2008, 09:48 PM
^ very nice interiors. Far nicer than my experience of sleeper trains - a 48 hour journey across India - absolute hell.
Have you seen Darjeeling Limited?

Meerkat
February 2nd, 2008, 11:38 PM
^No - I actually hadn't heard of it till now. I might hire it out one evening and watch it. Might bring back some memories of my journey:eek:

Are you interested in trains ablarc?

ablarc
November 6th, 2008, 09:12 PM
Dinner on Amtrak:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuMRsq_mDe0&feature=related

ablarc
January 27th, 2010, 12:35 PM
Moscow to St. Petersburg is a 404-mile ride. The route’s been busy since Czarist times, linking Russia’s versions of New York and Chicago (which --at 810 miles—lie twice as far apart).

Last December, to considerable fanfare, the Moscow-St. Petersburg run acquired its first “true” high-speed service (“Sapsan”), courtesy of Siemens rolling stock and extensive track upgrades. This cut the route’s fastest time from 4h30m (89.7 mph avg.) to 3h45m (107.7 mph avg.).

As on a plane, there are no intermediate stops on two out of the three Sapsan runs. The new train operates at 125 mph on the better stretches of track, but mostly it doesn’t. It’s like Acela --almost high speed. But no matter: on this route, the trains cream the planes in passenger volume.

But not for the reason you think.

If you consult a train schedule, you’ll find a paltry handful of these fast daytime trains, with service gaps of three hours or more. Where are the trains?

As you scroll down, the answer unfolds: the great majority of the trains on this busy route leave in the evening, and they take an unhurried eight hours or more to make the non-stop trip. That’s because the capitalists who own these trains want you to have a good night’s sleep.

And they want you to spend plenty on blinis and vodka –to say nothing of a great breakfast.

The latest of these trains is hyperbolically named the Grand Express (http://grandexpress.ru/en/); it may be grand, but it’s no express; it takes its time (8h55m) to waft you between the two cities at a languid average of 45.3 mph. Folks who have also taken the hour-shorter Red Arrow prefer the slower Grand Express for the additional hour of sleep.

Actually, the perfect length of an overnight train trip for business purposes is not nine hours, but thirteen. If you depart at 6pm, you can have a couple of drinks in the club car, a laid-back three-course meal heavy on the comfort food, a couple more drinks in the club car, and a nice little nightcap while you enjoy the flat screen TV in your cabin –or the free WiFi.

Your scheduled time of arrival is 7am, though most trains arrive about a half-hour early. Plenty of time for a relaxed, cholesterol-laden breakfast before the big meeting –and anyway, they don’t actually kick you off the train until 9am.

At an average speed of 64.8mph, the new Twenty-First Century Limited could get you reliably from New York to Chicago in exactly 12-1/2 hours. The reason? The freight lines have agreed to give it track priority. No more ridiculous eight-hour delays.

But that’s not all! 12-1/2 hour non-stop trips can also be taken linking Chicago with Philadelphia (790 miles @ 63.2mph), Washington 710 miles @56.8mph), while thirteen-hour travel times would take you from Chicago to Boston (984 miles @ 75.7mph), New Orleans (920 miles @ 70.8mph), and Montreal (850 miles @ 65.4mph).

It’s not high speed, so guess how much money has been spent on upgrading track or locomotion?

We can buy the sleeping, dining and club cars from Russia.

Fabrizio
January 27th, 2010, 01:27 PM
If anyone is interested: more sections of our high speed rail line have recently opened. Florence to Bologna is an incredible 37 minutes. This line is practically one long tunnel... 73 kilometers that cuts through mountains and hills. Completed in December 2009:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna–Florence_high-speed_railway

ablarc
January 30th, 2010, 10:40 AM
The line is 78.5 km long and includes 73.8 km of tunnels.
Incredible!

The world's first genuine high-speed subway.

What's the fare from Florence to Bologna, and what's the rush hour headway?

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2010, 12:04 PM
^ It is an engineering marvel but none of this will ever get printed in your press.

The trains can hit 362 km x hour. They are the fastest underground trains in the world.

Price: 2nd class 24 E / 1st Class 35 E.

http://www.ferroviedellostato.it/homepage_en.html

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2010, 12:49 PM
The Freccia Argento

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tr3.jpg

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vs. Amtrack Acela

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tr2.jpg

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tr6.jpg

---

The Freccia Rossa in action:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tr4.jpg

lofter1
January 30th, 2010, 01:01 PM
Florence to Bologna is an incredible 37 minutes. This line is practically one long tunnel... 73 kilometers that cuts through mountains and hills.


Many years ago I had one of the scariest drives of my life while traveling, during a pounding rain storm, on the winding and narrow autostrada (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autostrada_A1_(Italy)) between Bologna & Florence. Next time (hopefully soon) I'll take the train.

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2010, 01:06 PM
I don't drive but I refuse to go Bologna/Firenze by car, even as a passenger.

Know however, that for all of that insanely crazy must-be-seen-to-be-believed tailgating at 85 mph, statistically Italy has a lower traffic death-rate than the US.

--

gundam00
January 30th, 2010, 01:27 PM
I took the Eurostar from Rome to Florence with my family once, we had great views of the Tuscan landscape.