230 West 78th Street (20-story condo)

[krulltime]

20-story condo building planned for West 78th Street


http://www.cityrealty.com/graphics/uploads/1162851780_78w230b.jpg


06-NOV-06

A 20-story residential condominium building with 35 units is planned for 230 West 78th Street between Broadway and Amsterdam Avenue by Amsterdam 78, LLC, in care of Urban Residential LLC at 599 Broadway.

An offering plan was filed with the New York State Attorney General’s office April 27, 2006 with a total offering price of $109,525,000.

Handel Architects is the architect but Lauren Hlavenka of Handel Architects, responding to a query from CityRealty.com, said in an e-mail message that “unfortunately, we are not releasing information of this project just yet.”

The offering plan did not provide many details about the proposed new building but it indicated that part of it would be cantilevered at the 4th and 6th floors.

The building would have 75 feet frontage on 78th Street. The building would have bicycle storage, a fitness center, an attended lobby and a roof deck. A four-bedroom apartment with three-and-a-half baths on the 18th floor with 3,156 square feet of space plus 611 square feet of terrace is priced at $6,950,000. A one-bedroom, one-bath unit with 949 square feet is priced at $975,000.

The site is presently occupied by a four-story building with an 11-step stoop entrance and a rusticated stone facade.


Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY.COM INC.

[ablarc]

[B][SIZE="4"]The site is presently occupied by a four-story building with an 11-step stoop entrance and a rusticated stone facade.
This is one to save.

[lofter1]

This property backs up onto the landmarked Upper West Side Historic District: MAP (http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc/downloads/pdf/maps/upper_west_side.pdf) (pdf)

Due to a zig and a zag in the district boundary this building is not governed by Landmark regulations.

But no doubt lots of neighbors will fight it.

It's one thing to put a 20 story building up on the north <> south avenues, but mid-block is WRONG.

[Stern]

I don't like the sounds of this one, it sounds like it will be a sliver building on a low-rise side-street.

That said I dont want to hear any crude sexual references and a call for the developers head and the death of his family. Infractions will be given if the forum rules are not followed. That said please discuss the development at hand in a mature and intelligent manner.

[JerseyBrett]

I have alot of problems with this development. It simply boggles my mind that developers would actually consider this. I honestly do not believe this will be pushed through. I have a feeling the historic district will be extended...

[lofter1]

It seems that I mis-wrote above ... this site appears to be on the SOUTH side of W. 78th.

If so it wouldn't butt up against the Historic District (the line runs east <> west mid-block on the NORTH side of W. 78th) : Google MAP (http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=230+west+78th+street,+new+york,+ny&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=40.782477,-73.979576&spn=0.003704,0.010643&t=h&om=1)

DOB (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001289214&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt) shows an Application for a "NB" (New Building) at 230 W. 78th was "pre-filed" on 9.20.2006.

The Application is specifically for "Construction Equipment: FENCE"

No info for height / stories, but says Gross SF = 91,271 Sq. Ft

No Architect of Record is listed.

No Applications for Demo / Construction have been submitted as of yet.

The building would have 75 feet frontage on 78th Street

That sounds like three building sites.

Next door to the west at 232-234 is a double lot (DOB says it is a Church / Synagogue).

Next door to the east at 226-228 is a double lot at 6 stories with 42 Dwelling Units (condo?)

... part of it would be cantilevered at the 4th and 6th floors
May we kindly request that the intelligence-challenged developer be run out of town on a rail?

[sfenn1117]

This one definitely does not sound good.....and I'm shocked that all of the buildings in that photo aren't landmarked.

Handel architects are mentioned in the article, a group which is actually better than average, but still, 20 stories plus cantilevering sounds terrible for this location.

[posterboy]

i keep looking at the picture and it boggles my mind that anyone would want to raze that building. even by the rules of the market, dollar for dollar (i.e. the actual ROI), wouldn't it be a better deal to renovate it and sell it as a townhouse, at that location? anyone know the numbers for that area/ property?

[JerseyBrett]

I sent this article to "Landmarks West!" Although I will admit that I have strongly disagreed with them in the past about being too anti-development, I just thought it would be the right thing to do to alert them of this if they were not aware. There are plenty of places in NYC where this development would be welcome. A mid-block on the UWS should not be one of them.

[lofter1]

A 20-story residential condominium building with 35 units is planned for 230 West 78th Street ...

A four-bedroom apartment with three-and-a-half baths on the 18th floor with 3,156 square feet of space plus 611 square feet of terrace is priced at $6,950,000. A one-bedroom, one-bath unit with 949 square feet is priced at $975,000.

Look at the numbers ...

If every unit other than the PH were sold at the low number shown above (not likely) that comes to 34 units x $975K / unit = $33,150,000 + ~ $7M for the PH = ~ $40M Total.

A townhouse sale wouldn't reach anywhere near that level.

[londonlawyer]

...
It's one thing to put a 20 story building up on the north <> south avenues, but mid-block is WRONG.

I agree.

[londonlawyer]

This is one to save.

I concur.

[lofter1]

It seems that air rights are involved here.

With the description in the article of the cantilever at the 4th & 6th Floors my guess is that the building will rise on the single lot at 230 (with a 25 foot frontage) -- that none of the neighboring structures will come down -- and the sale of air rights would allow for the cantilever over the buildings to the east and west.

It could be that this is all a done deal and is being built "as of right"

Zoning MAP (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/zone/map5d.pdf) (pdf) seems to show that this lot is in a C4-6A zone. Zoning TEXT (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/zone/art03c04.pdf) (pdf -- Page 4) says that "Bulk Regulations" for such a Zone is equal to Regs for Residential "R10".

From City Planning ( http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/zh_resdistricts.shtml ) :


MODERATE- AND HIGHER-DENSITY DISTRICTS (R6-R10)

Moderate- and higher-density residence districts are generally found close to central and regional business districts, and are usually well served by mass transit. These areas are characterized by bulkier buildings, a wider range of building heights and lower auto ownership than lower-density areas. Like the lower-density residence districts, however, the character of these neighborhoods varies widely. Some are defined entirely by row houses, others by low apartment houses or high-rise buildings and still others by a mixture of all building types.

Moderate- and higher-density districts are divided into two categories: non-contextual and contextual (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/glossary.shtml#contextual). Non-contextual districts (R6, R7, R8 and R9), sometimes called height factor (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/glossary.shtml#height_factor) districts, are generally mapped where there is a mixture of building types and no predominant context. Contextual districts are those districts with an A, B or X letter suffix (R6A, R6B, R7A, R7B, R7X, R8A, R8B, R8X, R9A, R9X, R10A and R10X). Contextual districts, where development must comply with the regulations of the Quality Housing Program (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/glossary.shtml#quality), are designed to maintain the scale and form of the city’s traditional moderate- and higher-density neighborhoods. These districts are mapped where buildings of similar size and shape form a strong neighborhood context or where redevelopment would create a uniform context.

In non-contextual R6 through R9 districts, developers have a choice between building under height factor or Quality Housing regulations. In non-contextual R9 and R10 districts, developers may also elect to build pursuant to the tower (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/glossary.shtml#tower) regulations.

R9 and R10 Tower Regulations

R9 and R10 districts without a letter suffix, as well as commercial districts permitting equivalent residential density—all mapped mainly in Manhattan—allow residential towers of up to 35 stories above a contextual building base of between five and eight stories. The building form is called a tower-on-a-base (http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/glossary.shtml#tower). A residential tower that rises straight up without a contextual base may also be allowed, if it is located in certain high-density commercial districts or on a narrow street in an R9 or R10 district.

http://home2.nyc.gov/html/dcp/gif/zone/zh_tower_on_a_base.gif

[pianoman11686]

See, this is what I'm talking about when I say: evaluate a proposal according to its specific site. Since this particular one isn't within the landmarked district, you can't use the blanket argument of "it's inappropriate for the area." What I'm hearing, for the most part, is what makes sense: surrounded by low townhouses, quiet side street, better go on one of the avenues. Inappropriate building for its site. The cantilevering will doubtless be awkward, too.

Verdict: this one's a no-go.

[kurokevin]

Inappropriate building for its site. The cantilevering will doubtless be awkward, too.

Verdict: this one's a no-go.

I am curious to see if anyone on this board shares a different opinion than the one you present.

I sure fully agree you, pianoman.

[pianoman11686]

For starters, check out some of the debate concerning Foster's proposal for 980 Madison Avenue.

[lofter1]

The situation here seems to be that the zoning allows it -- and under existing regulations they won't need variances or special permits. With purchased air rights they've probably figured out how to make it work.

It may be unstoppable.

[investordude]

Visually, I look at the photo and wonder why those buildings aren't landmarked. Having said that, the city already purposefully made a landmarked area and explicitly excluded this site, if I read the posts above correctly.

I think its important in situations like that for the city to honor its previous analysis. Otherwise, no one outside a landmarked district could sell their property at fair value because they'd always be afraid the government would do something to seize or devalue the land for political reasons.

So, yes, I'm in favor of the development so property owners have a reasonably predictable understanding of what they will be allowed to do, but I am curious why it wasn't landmarked when a decision on that area was made.

[ASchwarz]

I am strongly in favor of this development. Considering that the majority of the Upper West Side is already landmarked or downzoned, it seems insane to say that the remaining slivers of land are also off limits to development.

City Planning and Landmarks have already evaluated every block and lot on the Upper West Side a million times. NYC isn't Venice. It is a vibrant, growing city with a huge shortage of housing.

[antinimby]

Name change for new condo building on West 78th Street

http://www.cityrealty.com/graphics/uploads/1163452210_amsterdam78.jpg


13-NOV-06

The name of the 20-story residential condominium building planned for 230 West 78th Street has been changed from Amsterdam 78 to Linden 78.


The project is a development of Urban Residential Properties of which Christopher Martorella is the chief executive officer and sole principal.

Handel & Associates is the architectural firm for the project and the rendering at the right appears on the website of Urban Residential.

Urban Residential’s other New York projects include 255 Hudson Street and 505 Greenwich Street, both designed by Handel & Associates, and NoLiTa Place, and the Sycamore, both designed by H. Thomas O’Hara, SoHo 25 on Houston Street, designed by H. Thomas O’Hara and Beyer Blinder Belle.

The building, which is on the south side of 78th Street between Amsterdam and Broadway, will have a 24-hour doorman and 34 apartments, a roof deck, and bicycle storage.

The rendering of the building indicates that the building will have setbacks at the 13th, 15th and 18th floors and that a west section of the building will be cantilevered at about the sixth floor.

The building’s masonry facades gives way partially to glass on the 15th through the 17th floors and fully to glass on the 18th through the 20th floors.

An offering plan was filed with the New York State Attorney General’s office April 27, 2006 with a total offering price of $109,525,000.
A four-bedroom apartment with three-and-a-half baths on the 18th floor with 3,156 square feet of space plus 611 square feet of terrace is priced at $6,950,000. A one-bedroom, one-bath unit with 949 square feet is priced at $975,000. The site is presented occupied by a four-story building with an 11-step stoop entrance.

Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY.COM INC.

[sfenn1117]

Just as bad as I imagined.

[ablarc]

Trees on the roof?

[Front_Porch]

Trees on the roof?

Sure, you get a "garden" amenity for the residents and I believe it also saves on energy costs for the building.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

[Saffster]

green on the roof is always good. personally, I think either that or solar panels should be required for roofs.
does anyone have any pictures/prospects for this building?

[krulltime]

Here is the new rendering of Linden78...

http://www.pbase.com/image/74486349.jpg


Some Information...

http://www.pbase.com/image/74486351.jpg


An aerial location...

http://www.pbase.com/image/74491770.jpg

[czsz]

Horrible for the street in comparison to the current building stock. There are plenty of better places on the UWS for something like this.

[LabradorLove]

Horrible for the street in comparison to the current building stock. There are plenty of better places on the UWS for something like this. Not too many. The landmarked outline takes out almost everything east of Amsterdam.

I'm glad to see the large layouts though. The UWS doesn't have much supply of 3 or 4 bedroom apartments. As a family neighborhood, it's pretty hard to find something for a family, especially if you don't want to go the "pull down your pants and show me everything" route of a co-op.

Since there seems to be absolutely zero information on 350 Amsterdam, there are only three projects on the UWS below 96th and East of WEA that have 3 bedrooms: Harsen House, Apple Bank, and Linden78 and Linden is the lowest price per $/foot by a mile.

Do a search on Halstead or Corcoran or Elliman for a 3 bedroom condo on the UWS. It's all Rushmore and the twins on 99th street and 455 CPW. Not much resale inventory out there. There is certainly a market for this product and I actually like this building. 20 stories isn't outrageous, especially with post-war ceiling height, the lobby is not double height, etc..

A nice family-centric building in the heart of the UWS? I'm all for it. Let's see what 350 Amsterdam has to offer. I heard their sales office opens in May across the street (where River used to be, I think).

[ablarc]

What happened to the trees on the roof? ;)

[macreator]

What happened to the trees on the roof? ;)

It's called bait and switch

[londonlawyer]

THe jerks on the UWS who will fight Extell fiercely over his plans for tall towers by Portzamparc should have focused their efforts on this monstrosity which does not fit in on this block.

[poorsod]

Unfortunately I am looking for 1 bedrooms. 2 beds are generally out of my price range. Linden only has 2 beds and up. So I'm hoping that 350 Amsterdam will have 1 bdrms.

[LabradorLove]

Unfortunately I am looking for 1 bedrooms. 2 beds are generally out of my price range. Linden only has 2 beds and up. So I'm hoping that 350 Amsterdam will have 1 bdrms.

The UWS is really lacking for new construction and inventory is really slim pickings unless you want to go to Riverside or 100th street.

We finally got an appointment at Linden and really liked the finishes. The bathrooms are beautiful and that little seat in the walk-in shower certainly got my wife's interest. I liked the wiring for speakers. Funny what each person cares about.

We know some friends in 505 Greenwich, same developer, who are happy with how it all came out. That's a big plus for us as we know too many unhappy new building buyers fighting with the developer years later. Not something we want to end up doing.

There's not too much left. Some of the high floor, great view stuff and some lower floor 2 bedrooms. We're not interested in paying for view as we're more than happy to trade view for space. We were also told that the third pricing amendment just went through a few days ago. Ugh.

We went to Harsen House too. Amazing but they are almost sold out without even a model of anything! Just renderings and some finish samples on a board. They said only 4 apartments left and they started sales in January! They are out of our price range though the whole floor plans are very well laid out. Even at original pricing we couldn't afford it. Really nice though.

Probably go back to Linden and see what's left. So hard to find a 3 or 4 bedroom condo on the UWS. Not sure we want to wait for 350 Amsterdam -- we're guessing it doesn't start closings until 2009 -- and there is so little info. The Equinox gym at 350 Amsterdam is a plus but it's around the corner from Linden too, just not in the building. We really like the Linden, finishes, children's room, layouts, etc but with the amendments, it's getting pricey fast. $1,600/ft or so. Acting slowly is costing us which means we need to make another appointment and see what's left now before they raise prices again...

[uws shopper]

labrador, your message is so spot on with what i've been experiencing in the hunt for a nice uws 3-4br. linden really is a fantastic location, i would argue much better than the 350 amsterdam project because it enjoys a nice quiet street. all of my friends who live on avenues (even those on high floors) complain about being woken by delivery trucks blowing their horns or sirens or just ordinary traffic.

unfortunately holding out for a bargain in NYC just never seems to work. there are too many millionaires being branded every year by wall street and the weak US dollar is attracting significant foreign investment. i've spoken with the people who will be selling 350 amsterdam and while they don't have exact prces yet, they quickly cited the success at linden78 to tell me that it will unlikely be coming at a discount.

after rejecting the riverside blvd buildings and the element/10wea/harsen/ariel for one reason or another we actually signed a contract at the linden.

while we have every intention of moving in when the building is ready, if my budget suddenly explodes upward or craters downward, i will likely be looking to flip. if you have no luck looking around, check in with me to see if i'm still going forward at linden78.

[LabradorLove]

after rejecting the riverside blvd buildings and the element/10wea/harsen/ariel for one reason or another we actually signed a contract at the linden.

while we have every intention of moving in when the building is ready, if my budget suddenly explodes upward or craters downward, i will likely be looking to flip. if you have no luck looking around, check in with me to see if i'm still going forward at linden78. Which line? A or B?

Did they mention the Stop Work Order?

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?bin=1030894&requestid=4

[uws shopper]

the b line. i asked about the stop work order and they didn't even know what i was talking about. what a joke. the contract does require urban to be in a position to close by April 2009 or else you get your deposit back with interest at 3.5%.

[nybanker8]

i also signed a contract at Linden, for one of the 2-bedrooms. i signed up a few weeks ago, just in time to beat the last two price increases. it's a great location.

i looked at Harsen as well, but thought it was overpriced with blocked views in the rear. it was also in a noisier location.

does anyone know when they're going to knock down the building on 232-234 W 78th? So far only 230 W 78th has been demolished. i can't imagine they have this building ready in 2008...

Does anyone have details on what's going to be built on the SW corner of 72nd?

[uws shopper]

hey banker/new neighbor/fellow finance person. they told me last week that the 2nd building would be demolished and slabs would be laid in a week which obviously hasn't happened. i live now on the east side and i see how quickly buildings here are going up all around me so i wouldn't count them out. they obviously have a lot of money riding on it.

[LabradorLove]

Does anyone have details on what's going to be built on the SW corner of 72nd?

Is this what you're talking about?

http://uwsdevelopments.wordpress.com/2006/08/28/200-west-72-at-broadway-colonial-club/

[LabradorLove]

hey banker/new neighbor/fellow finance person. they told me last week that the 2nd building would be demolished and slabs would be laid in a week which obviously hasn't happened. i live now on the east side and i see how quickly buildings here are going up all around me so i wouldn't count them out. they obviously have a lot of money riding on it.
Just walked by this morning. Nothing has changed at all. Wonder what's up.

The Harrison (350 Amsterdam) demolition looks like it is cruising now. The Equinox is gone except for the facade.

Related told me they were opening the sales office in a "few" weeks. Where the restaurant River used to be.

[uws shopper]

two months since the last post here and more of the same. no change on the site. the old red brick building is still standing and may still even be occupied. sales appear to be going very well though. i've noticed several availabilities drop off their web site even as prices get increased. still IMO plenty of time until april '09 deadline to get the building up.

[nybanker8]

looks like the stop work order has been lifted on 230 w 78th.

also, i spoke with sales office recently and supposedly the current tenant at 232-234 (a mikvah) was given a few more weeks to leave as their new space isn't ready yet.

they claim that the building is still on time for fall 08.

[LabradorLove]

Went to the temporary Harrison 76 sales office yesterday -- posted in the 350 Amsterdam thread -- and got to say, the Linden finishes and prices are head and shoulders above it. A full notch. Same with Harsen House on 72nd -- though that has to be a brutal block to live directly on with the double wide traffic, buses, and just general subway insanity. Great location otherwise but it is so noisy, much worse than Amsterdam.

Not sure about the mikvah and whatever that deal is but Harrison is busy doing demolition left and right and walking by Linden, it looks exactly the same as three months ago. Not a thing has been done at all.

They ever going to build this thing?

[uws shopper]

thanks for the post on harrison. sounds like related (obviously) sees how well sales are going at linden 78 so they started at a higher price/sq foot. how about common charges? were they hi/low?

as for construction at linden, I have no clue. i imagine the only deadlines they have to worry about are pouring the foundation by 12/31/07 to get the 421a and finishing by april 2009, the deadline in the offering plan.

i rode past the element yesterday - that location is so aweful and they are getting 1500/sq foot so good luck hunting for a bargain. your best bet is to just pull the trigger as prices seem to be goingonly in one direction.

[LabradorLove]

as for construction at linden, I have no clue. i imagine the only deadlines they have to worry about are pouring the foundation by 12/31/07 to get the 421a and finishing by april 2009, the deadline in the offering plan.
232 W 78 is now empty so there should probably be a permit filing soon for demolition on it.

But 230 W 78 now has -- again -- a stop work order due to inadequate fencing
http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?bin=1030894&requestid=4

Check the complaints on that link and there's obviously some pissed off neighbor who just keeps calling and calling in complaints...has one on 232 W 78 now too as well. :rolleyes:

[LabradorLove]

looks like the stop work order has been lifted on 230 w 78th.

also, i spoke with sales office recently and supposedly the current tenant at 232-234 (a mikvah) was given a few more weeks to leave as their new space isn't ready yet.

they claim that the building is still on time for fall 08.
Walked by yesterday. The Mikvah is coming down with the top story already off so demolition is progressing.

Probably finish demolition in October and pour the foundation the same month.

12 months to build a 23 story building? Possible but with the integration of the comedy club building it won't be a straight build. If I were to place a bet, end of '08 maybe, early '09. Not sure the developer would be worried about the outside date as the apartments will sell for more by then anyway. They obviously want it done sooner than later though. Carrying that interest can't be happy.

Seems like Harrison76 *may* open before Linden78 or it will be neck-in-neck.

In other news, the hotel On The Ave was just purchased by Highgate Holdings for $201m. They are a hotel operator so I doubt it's a conversion. There does seem to be some chatter (http://www.nypost.com/seven/08282007/business/sweet_suite_deal_for_broadway.htm) about some high-end restaurants possibly going into the long-vacant retail space.

The other thing I noticed (http://www.corcoran.com/n_websites/linden78/availability.aspx) is two of the 3 bedrooms, apartments 11A and 12A have been combined into a 4,606 square foot duplex for $7.69 million. That makes the average apartment in the building something like $3.8 million. Certainly a different positioning than Harrison76 and the combination brings the number of units down too (I also hear there is a combination or two by some buyers). Harrison, both in prices and finishes, seems to be just a notch below. Makes sense considering the size of the Harrison project.


With the Apthorp semi-conversion, the Harrison76, Linden78, and the possible upscale restaurants at On The Ave, that little 3 block radius is undergoing quite the transformation -- anchored to the south by the JCC.

I'm still hoping for a Whole Foods to go into the basement level retail of Harrison76 (25K square feet).

EDIT: Mikvah now gone. Looks like a busy demolition week.

[LabradorLove]

Picture from afternoon walk...

[krulltime]

December 8, 2007:

http://www.pbase.com/image/90185952.jpg

[antinimby]

Brewer pushes for stricter zoning


http://www.therealdeal.net//breaking_news/2007/12/12/images/13134.jpg
Councilor Gale Brewer


December 12 (http://www.therealdeal.net/breaking_news/2007/12/12/1197494860.php), 2:27 pm

Developers looking to take advantage of the zoning wiggle room they get when they build near major city avenues may have to change their ways if City Council Member Gale Brewer has her way.

Brewer, who represents the Upper West Side, is pushing to change zoning regulations that allow developers to transfer air rights from "avenue lots," to nearby blocks otherwise restricted to low-rise buildings.

Brewer sent a letter to Amanda Burden, the city's planning department head, after receiving complaints about Linden78, the new 21-story residential tower planned for 230 West 78th Street between Broadway and Amsterdam Avenue. The mid-block structure -- which is next to the famed Stand-Up New York comedy club -- was designed by Handel Architects. The 35-unit condo building will cantilever over an adjacent townhouse.

The project's developer, Urban Residential, is taking advantage of a zoning regulation that allows him to build the project as-of-right and buy air rights from a "lot, corner" development on Broadway.

Urban Residential did not immediately return calls for comment.

Brewer's Dec. 7th letter acknowledged that Urban Residential plans are in accordance with the law, but argued that the regulation "must be amended to prevent this type of situation from occurring again."

Brewer's office said efforts to change the zoning law have gained widespread support in the area, including from Community Board 7's district manager and from the community organization Coalition for a Livable West Side. By James Kelly

Copyright © 2003-2007 The Real Deal

[LabradorLove]

Passed by today on this warm January Sunday.

Looks like the foundation is almost done. Maybe another week would be my guess. Then it starts to rise. Should be interesting once it hits 14 stories -- about the height of the co-op to the north and On The Ave Hotel to the South -- and keeps rising.

It also looks like they added outdoor space -- on the roof -- to the top penthouse -- 21. Asking close to $8m, even with what will be pretty damn nice views to all four points of the compass, should have outdoor space for that kind of money.

http://www.corcoran.com/images/media/UnitFloorplans/425623.1.gif

But I wonder if they had to steal some space from the common roof area for it.

[nybanker8]

walked by yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to actually see the concrete structure up to 2nd floor!

[LabradorLove]

Yesterday they started installing the cantilever. Quite the operation. Looks like it continues today. That's 30 tons of steel up in the air.


5780

[sfenn1117]

Interesting process, thanks for the pics.

[whynot78]

This is a monstruosity.
Develpoment is good? We need more people on the UWS?
There days when you can not even enter the subway entrance this is how crowded it is.
So because some moneyed labrador puppy brain can afford to buy into this nonsense all the community must suffer.
Greed and utmost greed will turn against you like it did to Bear St.

[Peteynyc1]

This is a monstruosity.
Develpoment is good? We need more people on the UWS?
There days when you can not even enter the subway entrance this is how crowded it is.
So because some moneyed labrador puppy brain can afford to buy into this nonsense all the community must suffer.
Greed and utmost greed will turn against you like it did to Bear St.
Oh get over it dillweed Nimby. If you dont like crowds then move out of the city. The UWS is not even that crowded compared to other parts of the city. Having to wait 1 minute to enter the subway entrance is totally normal and an acceptable part of living in Manhattan. Development is great. If we didnt have development, you wouldnt have a city to begin with. I hope this new building blocks your view and provides a big shadow over your building :D

[LabradorLove]

This is a monstruosity.
Develpoment is good? We need more people on the UWS?
There days when you can not even enter the subway entrance this is how crowded it is.
So because some moneyed labrador puppy brain can afford to buy into this nonsense all the community must suffer.
Greed and utmost greed will turn against you like it did to Bear St.

Quite the first post. Right out of the gate with insults. Interesting tact. Welcome to the forum.

I guess you don't like Linden78 or the Harrison a block away or 535 West End Ave a few blocks north. But if you're anti-development in general, this is probably the wrong place for you.

Good development is good. And inevitable. So is bad development. Some might prefer the long ago time when the Upper West Side was just pasture. I'm sure there's a forum somewhere for those people.

Am I missing the point to your rant? The "community" is constantly changing and evolving like the buildings around it. While public transportation should certainly be upgraded, I fail to see how 35 apartments will be the proverbial straw.

New York City is constantly in need of new housing. The NIMBY folks would love the status quo forever. If you are one of them, prepare for a lifetime of disappointment. I guarantee someone wasn't in favor of the very building you live in. Aren't you glad it was built anyway?

The only nonsense here is your tirade. Nothing constructive, specific, or meaningful. The reference to Bear Sterns is a classic. As is your Lorax-like hubris to speak for the whole "community." I didn't know that you were the arbiter of community suffering. You decide what constitutes suffering for the community? You have been elected as that voice? Congratulations. Must have been a difficult election.

You certainly know how to make a first impression.

[uws shopper]

nice comeback! rode past the site yesterday. 5 floors up now.

[whynot78]

I do not need to impress you or anybody else.
By using ur logic in 10 yrs or less more buildings should be erected and taller would be the preference-since it sells.
For the benefit of the same crook or another that figured a way to 'move' money around (eg from his buddy the HF manger up the street).

But you do not see the how short sighted you are. You just want to own your concrete box close to your other pals who bought there ... like that russian guy who paid with a bag of cash.

You and the rest do not benefit the community...you will not even pay city tax since you will scarcely be here...

How long untill you will flip it greedy ?
You want to know who elected me: listen to the street. oh I forgot you do not rub shoulders with the hoi poloi...

An plz stop taking pictures of it : it is disgusting...

[ASchwarz]

I think whynot is off his meds again...

[antinimby]

whynot, we live in a free, capitalistic country. The sort of things that you are railing against are at the heart of capitalism: buying a 'concrete box', a Russian buying with cash, flipping their apartments, etc.

These are all rights and freedoms we have fought for. The other choice is for the government to own everything but that would be called communism. Is that what you're condoning?

Capitalism has never been fair. It never pretended to be. You're always going to have the 'haves' and the 'have nots' (at the moment I'm one of those 'have nots' :() and plenty of in-betweens also.

In fact, come to think of it, even in communist or the quasi modern communistic countries like China, the disparity between the well-off and the poor is just as great if not more so, so there really is no perfect system.

If you disallow all the things you are complaining about, i.e. people's right to buy, own, sell, transfer properties, then we are no longer the free country that we claim to be and our economy might go to the crapper, just like the Soviet Union did. That wouldn't help anyone, even yourself.

With that said, I think the kind of government we have now here, is pretty good. On one hand we follow a free, open capitalistic model but then we also balance a bit of that with government intervention such as welfare, medicaid, rent stabilization and so on. This way those that need help will still receive some help, paid for and subsidized in part by the wealthier segments of society, which you seem to hate.

Oh and yes, they still pay taxes on their properties even if they don't stay there all the time. ;)

[lofter1]

This site is not located in any 'protected" area.

The buildings just down the block along Broadway are of similar height to what this building will be.

[LabradorLove]

I do not need to impress you or anybody else.
So much for the concept of "community." In case you haven't noticed, this is one. It isn't a matter of impressing but getting along with. You obviously do not care. It shows. Well done.

By using ur logic in 10 yrs or less more buildings should be erected and taller would be the preference-since it sells.

Actually, that wasn't anything close to what I said but correcting you seems futile. You will rant on whatever you want.

But you do not see the how short sighted you are. You just want to own your concrete box close to your other pals who bought there

1. Don't tell me what I see or don't. You have no idea. You speak for the community AND you now speak for me? Don't even bother trying to speak for me. You know nothing but what your have invented in your mind about me.

2. 15 CPW is made from concrete. What's the problem with concrete? I mean, you prefer straw and mud?

3. I know no one who bought at Linden. I know a few people who bought at Harrison. Why do you even pretend to know me or my friends or anything else? Does it make you feel better to imagine this all up?

You and the rest do not benefit the community...you will not even pay city tax since you will scarcely be here...

Me and the rest? Next you'll be saying, "you people." Careful there. Lumping people into groups is a dangerous past time.

You know who and what benefits the community? Does your hubris know no end?

And real estate taxes are not based on occupancy. One pays if you stay one night or 365. And city taxes are based on where the income is earned if one's primary residence is out of state so obviously your knowledge of the US tax code is as extensive as your knowledge of development. Swing and a miss!

How long untill you will flip it greedy ?
You want to know who elected me: listen to the street. oh I forgot you do not rub shoulders with the hoi poloi...

An plz stop taking pictures of it : it is disgusting...

I did listen to the street. I heard two rats fighting. They elected you? Congratulations. I hope the rat poison campaign on 78th street works.

I can't help it. It's your second post and already I'm hoping that this building blocks your views and light. I hope you live in 226 W 78 and had windows facing West that are now blocked. At least then there could be some basis, some rationale for this particularly egocentric venom.

Thank goodness the Pope is in town and I can go cleanse my soul of that evil thought tomorrow.

I'll be sure to grab some pictures later today. I hope you enjoy them!

Have a wonderful and sun-filled day!

P.S. Put up or shut up? Put up what? 15 more floors?

[UnionWorker]

I am a UNION worker on the w78th st. project and I'm open to all questions.

[uws shopper]

it sounds like you have something to say or maybe you just like this boards. i guess to start i would just ask the obvious...what do you think of the project so far? are you impressed with what you see or do you have serious concerns?

[UnionWorker]

i think the project is well needed. lets face it.. theres not one townhouse on the block in which it looks like the owner has put any money into its appearance. from the shabby front doors to the paint peeling stairs that lead to them.. not even the windows look like they have been cleaned in decades. in this day in age no one is going to pump money into these places.. let alone take one down and replace it with another new one that will net you the same income. although i am not a fan of condo living, even with the huge living spaces and fancy designs (id much rather have a backyard and front door rather than an elevator), you can see where the developer is coming from. now as for the disruption due to construction on the block... theres really nothing we can do to prevent it.. the property is 50 feet wide and for those of you who pass the site you can see what we have to do in order to construct. the best thing for everybody would be to let us finish and get out. we are an extremely safe construction site.. and everything we do that might annoy the neighborhood is to advance construction in a quick and safe manner. the city is forever changing.. you cannot go two blocks without seeing a construction site or scaffolding.

[UnionWorker]

oh and i forgot to mention... for those who love to talk to the city about our site.. how about talking to the city about your rat problem.. in all of my time as a construction worker i have never EVER seen so many gigantic rodents in my life. NOW THERES A REAL PROBLEM!

[nybanker8]

anyone have any updates about this building (construction progress, timing, etc)?

Also, is the cantilever going to be visible, or will they cover the empty space / reface the building below to blend in? if so, marketing materials are very deceiving as they do not show cantilever. In hindsight, the tree that was simply innocuous on the marketing materials is obscuring where the cantilever is!!!

[LabradorLove]

When I walked by yesterday, it looked like they were prepping the 19th floor which means there are four floors left to pour (19,20,21, roof) so I would guess they top off around the end of August.

They are also prepping the north side for window installation. Probably on floor 6 on that prep work. Just a WAG but April?

I'm not sure what you mean by the cantilever being visible. Below the cantilever on the rendering and the model is the mechanicals for the comedy club. The north facade should be solid with the mechanicals shutters in that space below the canitlever.

After the disappointment of the Harrison facade material choice, it will be interesting to see this getting closed up. I do think the windows will help the Harrison though and it may turn out looking much better than I think.

[antinimby]

From A Fine Blog (http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/2008/08/linden-78-now-thats-cantilever.html)...

(click on pic to view LARGE version)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4g75slnk7qQ/SJtXYBuYnTI/AAAAAAAAAqY/vFvUkZh_kEw/s320/cantilever.JPG (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4g75slnk7qQ/SJtXYBuYnTI/AAAAAAAAAqY/vFvUkZh_kEw/s1600-h/cantilever.JPG)

[nybanker8]

anyone have any updates on timing? possible this year or still likely first quarter 2009?

looks like moving quickly.

[LabradorLove]

Impossible this year.

Walked by Harrison and Linden today. Harrison is almost closed up. Facade and almost all windows are in. Harrison has been topped off for maybe two months.

Linden?

Looks like they still need to pour the machine room, etc on the roof so top off maybe this week. Pouring has been slower than I expected in the earlier post. They're at +3 weeks from when I would have expected a top off.

Still haven't gotten all the exterior walls prepped though they do have some facade up on the North side. Looks nice.

I'd guess Linden is closed up sometime in November. That's 6 weeks or so from now to finish the external walls and install the windows and close up the building before the bad weather.

From there? Interiors go fast but I would be shocked if it's less than five months.

I would guess that Harrison starts closings in April -- could be March as Related is so professional -- and the Linden is 3 months behind so June. Maybe July with delays.

First quarter? Would take a miracle.

EDIT: Walked by the building this evening. They have a flag flying which usually indicates top off. Looks like they poured some concrete today.

[LabradorLove]

Got a shot of the facade today. I like it.

In the second shot, if you look in the top, right of photo on the roof is the American flag. Sign of the topping off.


http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/240/lindenfacade1re4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/296/lindentoppeduj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/img0613fz0.jpg/1/w1024.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img519/img0613fz0.jpg/1/)

[lightcap]

I heard that; as of 6/30/08 this project was only 38% complete or $15.5MM billed of it's $41.2MM contract price.

[LabradorLove]

It is certainly very delayed. July? August?

Facade is going up. Saw one row of windows in too. Won't be closed up before the month ends.

I bet every developer in NYC with a project in progress is looking at contracts breaking left and right.

[whynot78]

Are you really that nervy that you are employed by a developer perhaps even the Related and come in this forum to trumpet the benefits of such buildings.
Do read the NYTimes RE section of how the workers stripped the Dakota Stables so it can be torn down later.
Whatever you are you show no restraint.
Go back to your swamp before another building squashes you eventually.

[LabradorLove]

Vitrol much?

I'm not touting anything. And for the record, I don't work for a developer. So keep guessing.

As for the Times article on Related's late-night demo, welcome to the news. Most of us in the area knew about this when it happened. Sure, it sucks, but it's pretty old news. The Times was using it as an example of an attempt to change the rules.

An old example for a new possible change. Of course, if you're just getting upset about it now and just learning about it, I don't believe you live in the area.

It would be like someone bitching about the Washington Square Park make-over today. Uh, do you live in New Jersey? My swamp is the UWS. Yours?

But thanks for stopping by and adding your usual cheery, informative stuff to the thread!

[Skylimitone]

Is this a clue to what 23 East 22nd may look like:

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/12/665875.jpg

[nybanker8]

Anyone have any updates on when they'll start closing on units on lower floors?

looks like interior work is being done on them now.

can they close on lower units while upper ones still under construction?

[LabradorLove]

They can close on lower floors if they get the TCO. They will need it for the any floors they plan to close as well as lobby, etc.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to close like that. It has become more common with developers as they pay their loan off with each closing which helps ease the interest burden but for the purchaser it is a nightmare.

You are living in a construction zone. Noise, dirt, unfinished amenities. Nasty.

And banks these days will be loath to give a mortgage on unfinished buildings. They worry and while they did so it the past, these days the banks insist on a greater amount of construction to be completed regardless of TCO. I would be surprised if they won't require substantial completion of at least 50% of the apartments in order to write the loan.

That would mean a TCO for half the floors (10?).

While interiors do go quickly, I'd guess they won't have closings for many months. They still have the glass to do up top and there's a lot of work to do. Then they need to apply for the TCO, get the report, fix the problems, get re-inspected, etc.

I wouldn't be in such a hurry to live in an unfinished building. It really is a noisy, unpleasant experience.

[Stroika]

This building sucks. What it replaced wasn't irreplaceable, but looking at this hulker, you almost want to conclude it was. This is a run-of-the-mill, pre-cast, made-in-China cheap-o product; trickle-down Modernism. The proliferation of this sort of construction over the last few years has made parts of New York look like a cross between a suburban shopping center and a Third World capital. So f&#%ing dull.