131-139 W 45th St - New Extell Development

[pianoman11686]

I was walking down 45th street today, between 6th and 7th, and noticed that Extell has cleared a good-sized site. Anyone know what's planned here?

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9051/newyorkthanksgiving016vi0.jpg

[lofter1]

Thread for this one HERE (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10670) ...

[pianoman11686]

Nope, that's a different one. This one's about a block west, on the north side of the street. About half a block away from Times Square.

[lofter1]

okie doke ... (similar plaster ghosties of a building-gone-by on the wall here :eek: )

[antinimby]

Shame on you two. ;)

And I had thought you two regulars on here were up to speed with all the going on's.

It's actually old news (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=94861&postcount=170) but here it is anyway:

Extell Investment Management is assembling a site at 131-139 W. 45th St., directly behind the Muse Hotel on West 46th Street, The New York Sun has been told. It plans to develop a luxury hotel on the site.

[lofter1]

Good detective work ^^^ ;)

[londonlawyer]

Does anyone know if 131 W 45th Street will be razed? I hope not. It's a beautiful, little building. There's an Extell banner on the sidewalk scaffolding on the building. However, since the adjacent buildings already were razed perhaps there's hope. Even if Gershon owns it, I hope that he will overcome his philistine instincts and incorporate it into the new project.

[lofter1]

DOB (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001269933&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt) shows a recent permit for the sidwalk shed during minor re-pointing work on the facade at 131 W. 45th -- so it looks like this one will be around for a while ;) ...

[londonlawyer]

DOB (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001269933&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt) shows a recent permit for the sidwalk shed during minor re-pointing work on the facade at 131 W. 45th -- so it looks like this one will be around for a while ;) ...

That's good news. If you're in the area, check this building out. It's a little gem.

[lofter1]

Does anyone know if 131 W 45th Street will be razed? I hope not. It's a beautiful, little building.

It is a little beauty in need of some TLC ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_01a.jpg

A "ghost" sign painted on the west brick wall ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_01b.jpg

[londonlawyer]

Thanks for posting those photos, Lofter. If Gershon wants to demonstrate that he is not a total philistine like Aby Rosen, he will preserve that building and perhaps incorporate it into the new structure.

[lofter1]

It would serve well the developer to preserve this little old building -- as it will allow for windows on the east facade of the new building going up next door.

[londonlawyer]

I agree.

[antinimby]

Seeing that it's small, the temptation to tear it down is too great for them to bear.

Btw, Aby Rosen is not a philistine.

londonlawyer, you're just biased because of the Foster proposal on Madison.

[londonlawyer]

Seeing that it's small, the temptation to tear it down is too great for them to bear.

Btw, Aby Rosen is not a philistine.

londonlawyer, you're just biased because of the Foster proposal on Madison.

I can't stand Aby Rosen. I also am angry about his decision to raze the YMCA building which is very nice. There's a total POS across the street from it and there are tons of contiguous, low rise P's OS on Lex. Why doesn't he raze them?

[antinimby]

'Cause he doesn't own them?

[londonlawyer]

'Cause he doesn't own them?

He didn't own the YMCA either. He bought it with the intent of razing it, and he had the chutzpah to say that it's an eyesore. In reality, it's a great building, and yet, there are plenty of eyesores on Lex that could be redeveloped like the Wendys and Mc D's near GCS, the TGI Fridays in the
50's, etc.

[krulltime]

A Theater Package for Extell on West 45th


http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Extell45th1.JPG


Monday, March 26, 2007,
by ROK88

Is Gary Barnett a theater groupie? He should have no problem getting a front row seat at any number of Broadway theaters. His Extell gang has bought up scads of those precious Theater District transferable air rights for what is reported to be a new 50-story Condo-slash-Hotel to go up right off Times Square at 131 - 139 West 45th Street. It seems three old Broadway theaters all the way across the Square have found an angel in Mr. B. And as Max Bialystock will tell you, it takes a lot of cash to put on a show. Deep pockets can come in mighty handy.


http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Extell45th2.JPG


Extell is everywhere these days. East Side. West Side. All around the town. They're certainly no stranger to the Crossroads of Desire, with their flippin' fantastic Orion over on the Deuce. Now they've made some new friends on this side of Broadway. They cut some deals with their mid-block neighbors along West 45th for even more air rights. Now they can build high over that big bow tie down below. And when Extell's new one rises it could have some company a block over at 66 West 45th, where Enrique Norten and TEN Arquitectos have plans for another 50-story hotel-condo combo. Will these two 500 footers make beautiful music together? Let's just hope they don't hit any sour notes. Gary has enough trouble with glass as it is.


http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Extell45th3.JPG


Copyright © 2007 Curbed

[londonlawyer]

I really hope that Barnett does not raze this little gem:

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_01a.jpg

[antinimby]

That all depends. Is the current lot big enough to fit a 50-story hotel in it?

Btw, what did the other buildings that presumably was taken down earlier, looked like?

[antinimby]

I just checked propertyshark and that building above is indeed, 131 W. 45 St., so it is in fact, part of the plot.

[londonlawyer]

I just checked propertyshark and that building above is indeed, 131 W. 45 St., so it is in fact, part of the plot.

Thanks for the info. I figured we'd lose it. Barnett is also razing a really beautiful 3 story Victorian townhouse on WEA just south of 86th St. It sucks.

[lofter1]

Passing by 131 W 45th yesterday I saw that BEST Exterminators have spray painted their name on the windows and affixed stickers to the facade stating that rodenticide has been placed throughout the building.

This is usually the precursor to demolition.

However DOB shows no Demo Application for this property -- yet.

[krulltime]

Extell plans 55-story hotel condo project on West 45th Street


http://www.cityrealty.com/graphics/uploads/1175807691_extell45.jpg


05-APR-07

The Extell Development Company is planning to erect a 55-story hotel and hotel/condo tower at 135 West 45th Street utilizing air rights transfers from three nearby legitimate theaters.

It presented its massing studies, prepared by H. Thomas O'Hara, to the zoning committee of Community Board 5 last night.

Paul D. Selver of the law firm of Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP, which represents Extell, told the committee that the new mid-block building between the Avenue of the Americas and Seventh Avenue would contain 242 hotel rooms and 171 hotel condos. He said that the hotel would be operated by the Intercontinental.

Extell has acquired the air rights for an undisclosed amount and is seeking a certificate of appropriateness from the City Planning Commission. Under the terms of the certificate, the owners of the theaters agree to deed restrictions that limit their properties' use to legitimate theater, and agree to a maintenance program for their preservation and agree to contribute $14.91 per square foot of transferred air rights to the Special Theater Subdistrict Fund.

The committee voted 8 to 2 in favor of supporting the granting of the certificate, but several members expressed outrage that the city has not yet created the Theater Subdistrict Council, which would administer the fund.

On March 12, David Karnovsky, counsel of the Department of City Planning, wrote a letter to the chairman of Community Boards 4 and 5 in which he said that his office "is working to establish the TSC consistent with the requirements of the Zoning Resolution," adding that "While the formation of the TSC has proved to be more complex than originally anticipated, we anticipate being able to convene an organizational meeting in the early spring."

The planned tower would rise from a 9,500 square foot mid-block plot. The tower would receive 8,500 square feet of air rights from the Hirschfeld Theater, 9,500 from the St. James Theater and 54,820 square feet from the Broadhurst Theater.

The transfers would essentially reduce the available transferable air rights of the Hirschfeld and St. James theaters to nothing but the Broadhurst would still have about 31,000 square feet available, Mr. Selver said.

Joyce Matz, a member of the committee, opposed the granting of a certificate because she felt that the public benefit was insufficient especially since Mr. Selver said that all three theaters are in very good condition. The developer's contribution to the fund is estimated to be about $1.1 million.

Meile Rockefeller, co-chair of the committee said she was not happy with the fact that the planned building would be as tall as buildings on avenues even though it is a mid-block property.


Copyright © 1994-2007 CITY REALTY.COM INC.

[antinimby]

It presented its massing studies, prepared by H. Thomas O'Hara, to the zoning committee of Community Board 5 last night.NO F*CKING WAY!! :mad:

[londonlawyer]

I wonder if O'Hara will be the architect. You wouldn't expect a chump like him to design an Intercontinental.

[Stern]

I think they're just doing the massing for this building.

[sfenn1117]

Yeah, Extell does not go cheap with their buildings. I really doubt they would use O'Hara....in fact, I wouldn't be shocked if they chose a lower tier big firm (Pelli, KPF, SOM)

[antinimby]

Thanks sfenn.

That is at least comforting to hear--for the time being at least--that is until they show us a big, fat ugly rendering from O'Hara.

Then I'll go off the handle, I swear I will!

[Stern]

Thanks sfenn.

That is at least comforting to hear--for the time being at least--that is until they show us a big, fat ugly rendering from O'Hara.

Then I'll go off the handle, I swear I will!

Check out O'Hara's site, its loaded with projects by other architects, its quite common for other architects to navigate NYC zoning law and to do the massing studies.

[antinimby]

Hey Stern, is it normal for one firm to do the massing studies for another firm that will actually do the design later on?

Needless to say, I'm quite concern that there is even the slightest bit of possibility that O'Hara will do a 55-story in the heart of Midtown.

Why can't Jersey City take O'Hara and Kaufman off our hands (they seem to want to take everything else)? :D

[Stern]

Hey Stern, is it normal for one firm to do the massing studies for another firm that will actually do the design later on?

Needless to say, I'm quite concern that there is even the slightest bit of possibility that O'Hara will do a 55-story in the heart of Midtown.

It is quite common. Usually its done with firms like Ohara or SLCE. The one surprising case I remember is Robert AM Stern did the massing for 425 Fifth Avenue and the project was then handed to Michael Graves. If I had my guess as to why developers do this its because firms like O’Hara don’t cost as much to produce studies, this way if the proposal is rejected, they could have O’Hara redraw plans at a lower expense. Once the proposal is approved the project is then handed over to a finishing architect.

[londonlawyer]

It is quite common. Usually its done with firms like Ohara or SLCE. The one surprising case I remember is Robert AM Stern did the massing for 425 Fifth Avenue and the project was then handed to Michael Graves. If I had my guess as to why developers do this its because firms like O’Hara don’t cost as much to produce studies, this way if the proposal is rejected, they could have O’Hara redraw plans at a lower expense. Once the proposal is approved the project is then handed over to a finishing architect.

But isn't O'Hara still responsible for drafting the building's basic shape? Presumably, the rendering that was posted is the basic shape of the structure. The ultimate architect will simply be responsible for selecting the glass, etc. Isn't that correct?

[Derek2k3]

It is quite common. Usually its done with firms like Ohara or SLCE. The one surprising case I remember is Robert AM Stern did the massing for 425 Fifth Avenue and the project was then handed to Michael Graves. If I had my guess as to why developers do this its because firms like O’Hara don’t cost as much to produce studies, this way if the proposal is rejected, they could have O’Hara redraw plans at a lower expense. Once the proposal is approved the project is then handed over to a finishing architect.

I don't think so. O'Hara and SLCE are good at producing efficient and profitable towers and residential layouts. I'm guessing Extell is using another foreign or outer-city architect for the architectural design. Maybe Portzamparc? These international guys aren't adept with New York's zoning and building codes and often not licensed in this state. Thus, firms like O'Hara and SLCE work collaboratively with the design architect to produce massing, interiors, and the more technical aspects.

Also, I remember Graves completely replaced Stern as the design architect of the building. Stern had a complete design. not just massing. As likely in this case, O'Hara was brought in to do the layouts and technical work since Graves is not a New York architect.

[antinimby]

Okay, now I'm even more confused. :confused:

So will O'Hara be the design architect for this building or not? Yes or no?

[Stern]

Okay, now I'm even more confused. :confused:

So will O'Hara be the design architect for this building or not? Yes or no?

Most likely no. I'd put the chances of him actually designing the building at 1%.



I don't think so. O'Hara and SLCE are good at producing efficient and profitable towers and residential layouts. I'm guessing Extell is using another foreign or outer-city architect for the architectural design. Maybe Portzamparc? These international guys aren't adept with New York's zoning and building codes and often not licensed in this state. Thus, firms like O'Hara and SLCE work collaboratively with the design architect to produce massing, interiors, and the more technical aspects.

Also, I remember Graves completely replaced Stern as the design architect of the building. Stern had a complete design. not just massing. As likely in this case, O'Hara was brought in to do the layouts and technical work since Graves is not a New York architect.

I think you misunderstood what I wrote as I agree with you. As I said Ohara and SLCE are used to navigate the NYC zoning process, they produce the initial schemes that are brought to the community board, that way if the proposal is rejected they can go back to the drawing board at a lower cost than say Cesar Pelli would require for drafting a new design. Once they have a plan that is approved they will also collaborate with a design architect on the technical aspects and interiors as again their cost will be less.

As far as 425 Fifth Avenue, I said it surprised me because Robert AM Stern and Michael Graves are both finishing design architects, and I remembered a NYTIMES article that said Stern only had a collaborating role. As to what really happened, if I had my guess Stern was the design architect and was replaced by Graves before his design was entirely finished, the setbacks and envelope already designed however. It also further illustrates Ohara's role in projects: "apartment layouts, zoning calculations and construction drawings"

NYTIMES:

Mr. Davis played down the importance of bringing in a new architect, saying Mr. Stern ''just did the initial programming and feasibility work.'' The change to Mr. Graves carried Mr. Stern's blessing, said a spokesman for Robert A. M. Stern Architects. And Garrett Gourlay, chief operating officer of H. Thomas O'Hara Architect, a firm that worked first with Mr. Stern and then with Mr. Graves on apartment layouts, zoning calculations and construction drawings, took the shift in stride. ''These things have a way of being changed until they're set in concrete,'' he said. ''Literally.''

[pianoman11686]

That is at least comforting to hear--for the time being at least--that is until they show us a big, fat ugly rendering from O'Hara.

Then I'll go off the handle, I swear I will!

Well, you won't have to worry about it being fat. The footprint pretty much guarantees this will be a slender building.

I think Stern and Derek are right. There's no way O'Hara gets to design this.

[Derek2k3]

Yea, sorry about the misundrstanding Stern.

[NBAMA]

Architect for the Intercontinental developed in Boston by Extell was Elkus/Menfredi.

[stashinny]

Yeah, Extell does not go cheap with their buildings. I really doubt they would use O'Hara....in fact, I wouldn't be shocked if they chose a lower tier big firm (Pelli, KPF, SOM)

I think you should check the forum on the Orion. Many residents are not happy with EXTELL. They are a poor quality shop.

[lofter1]

The little (and goodlooking) remaining building on this site is coming down ...

The 45th Street facade enshrouded ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_05a.jpg

And bricks on the west wall chipped away ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_05c.jpg

Some old rain-soaked wallpaper on the long-exposed upper floors flutteing in the wind ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_05b.jpg

[londonlawyer]

That sucks. That was a nice building. I hope Gershon at least builds something nice there.

[lofter1]

Yep ^^^ it does. And I hope so, too.

[ps: I had you in mind when I posted those photos :cool: ]

A reminder what she looked like:

... a little beauty in need of some TLC ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_01a.jpg

[londonlawyer]

Yep ^^^ it does. And I hope so, too.

[ps: I had you in mind when I posted those photos :cool: ]

A reminder what she looked like:

... a little beauty in need of some TLC ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_01a.jpg

Thanks, amigo. You and I mourn the loss of these great structures. In the meantime, 8th Ave. is lined with disgusting crap that still stands while gems like this are razed.

[lofter1]

In the last weeks a couple of storefronts on the west side of Eighth between 43rd / 44th have shuttered their doors (formerly souvenir / porn shops).

It will be interesting to see if this is the start of the clearing the northside of that block (which has been discussed as a tower development site) ...

[londonlawyer]

In the last weeks a couple of storefronts on the west side of Eighth between 43rd / 44th have shuttered their doors (formerly souvenir / porn shops).

It will be interesting to see if this is the start of the clearing the northside of that block (which has been discussed as a tower development site) ...

One of the blocks on 8th that I desperately want to see developed is the stretch on the west side between 44th and 45th that houses two contiguous, short, dirty, brown brick P's OS that house, among other things, a Charlie O's pub. Also, there's an empty parking lot behind one of them that could make accomodating a decent-sized building easier. It's my understanding that some union owns both of these P's O S. I am not that eager to see the 43rd St. site redeveloped because some of those buildings, like the Playpen, are quite nice. There are also a bunch of horrible residential buildings in the 50's, like the Westerly, that have no character. I want to see them razed.

[Derek2k3]

Permit says 55 stories, 599', 304,831 Sq. Ft.. SLCE are at the least architects of record. I'm hoping Extell hired some foreign architect for the design.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=3&allisn=0001400619&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt=

[lofter1]

The gang here was demo-ing like crazy today ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Midtown/45thExtell_06b.jpg

***

[lofter1]

Gary's gang have dug themselves a pool here ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/131%20W%2045%20Extell/45thExtell_09c.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/131%20W%2045%20Extell/45thExtell_09b.jpg

131 w 45

[BrooklynRider]

Doesn't look very methodical.

[londonlawyer]

The DOB website lists a stop-work order for this project. I assume that it will be the typical Extell garbage though there's a remote chance that Gershon will hire Holl to design a nice building.

[lofter1]

DOB also shows that the SWO for this site has been RESOLVED (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OverviewForComplaintServlet?requestid=12&vlcompdetlkey=0000977975) -- which is undoubtedly why the crew was busy digging out the hole last week.

Applications still show Architect = SLCE

[londonlawyer]

Thanks. I guess 366 11th Ave. is an anomaly, and Gershon remains cheap and Macklowe-esque.

[londonlawyer]

The DOB website lists a stop-work order for this project....

Although the DOB still has a stop-work order posted on its website, I walked by on 3-6-08 and noted a lot of activity.

[econ_tim]

it will be interesting to watch several large projects rise in this area. in addition to the hotel, there is the 40-storey diamond district tower on 45th and a 40-storey condo on 44th between, both between 5th and 6th. i think the condo project has finised excavation and moved on to foundation work, so maybe it will start rising soon. the diamond district tower still has move excavation to do, although the hole appears to be 4 storeys deep in parts.

[hey19932]

I wish there were renderings for this one! I hope its glassy.

[Derek2k3]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3181/2639325928_dca4419134_o.jpg
Notice it says 68 stories, not 55 as reported. Hard to judge its height in comparison to other towers from this model. It looks like it could be taller than the Americas Tower next door, which is 692'.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3094/2638530229_de51d671c3_o.jpg
From the ESB, most of the view of tower will be blocked by the Bank of America Tower. The best place to see it rise into the skyline will probably be from Top of the Rock.

Taken yesterday.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3026/2639325934_5673663d58_o.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3125/2639325964_60813cc2a6_o.jpg
A pretty deep hole.


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3161/2639325968_37c913a875_o.jpg

[lofter1]

I walked by this site on Thursday -- the perimeter of the foundation is nearly complete.

Same for TEN Arquitectos hotel project site on the block to the east, so they could rise in tandem :D .

[Skylimitone]

Extell is undertaking a lot at once, this project, Riverside South, 360 10th, the Diamond Tower...

[antinimby]

Another slow as molasses project.

[Derek2k3]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2790174687_5f06b06b40_o.jpg

Foundation looks complete, ready to rise...
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2790174801_dcf1ba09da_o.jpg

[lofter1]

DOB shows that the New Building Permit was once again DISAPPROVED (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=4&passjobnumber=104844180&passdocnumber=01) on 8.22.08.

Architect is still SLCE

[Derek2k3]

Only 536 feet. You won't even be able to see this from down the block.

[antinimby]

So it shrank by over 100 feet?!!

[antinimby]

All's quiet...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1744/img0255nf1.jpg

[lofter1]

DOB (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=4&passjobnumber=104844180&passdocnumber=01) shows recent activity on the New Building Permit:
Last Action: PERMIT ISSUED - ENTIRE JOB/WORK 10/02/2008