Push for Historic District in Soho & Village

[ZippyTheChimp]

Push for new historic district in Soho & the Village

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_193/map.gif
Map showing boundaries of proposed South Village Historic District


By Albert Amateau

The Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation last week dropped an 80-page report, three years in the making, on the desk of Robert Tierney, chairperson of the Landmarks Preservation Commission, in a call for a South Village Historic District comprised of 38 blocks and about 800 buildings.

The report, by Andrew S. Dolkart, associate professor of historic preservation at Columbia University’s School of Architecture, Planning and Preservation, covers an area south of W. Fourth St. to W. Houston St. roughly between Seventh Ave. and LaGuardia Pl., with an extension from W. Houston St. down to Watts St. between Sixth Ave. and the midblock line west of W. Broadway.

“Our historic South Village Preservation Project will be one of our top goals for 2007,” said Andrew Berman, G.V.S.H.P. executive director, who commissioned the report in 2003 after receiving grants from the Preservation League of New York State and the New York State Council on the Arts. “Landmark designation of this area is one of the great pieces of unfinished preservation business for Greenwich Village and, indeed, for New York City as a whole,” Berman said.

“The South Village Historic District would really be the city’s first largely tenement-based historic district and the first to focus largely on…the history of a home to immigrants, especially Italian-Americans,” said Berman. “Very important to the story is the area’s history of the city’s largest African-American community in the 19th century; the center of the city’s gay and lesbian life in the early 20th century, and as the great hub of bohemian and countercultural life in New York — and possibly the world — throughout a large chunk of the 20th century,” Berman said.

Although the neighborhood has seen less development pressure than other places, like the recently landmarked and rezoned far West Village, it is home to several buildings beloved of preservationists. Berman cited the demolition of the Tunnel Garage on Broome and Thompson Sts., the Circle in the Square Theater on Bleecker St., the Sullivan St. Theater and the Poe House and Judson Memorial Church Community House at Thompson and W. Third Sts.

The Soho Alliance has signed on as a supporter of the proposed historic district, along with the Central Village, Carmine St., Bedford-Downing, West Houston, Morton St., Vandam St. and Charlton St. block associations.

The proposed district abuts the large Greenwich Village Historic District to the north, and the three-block Charlton King Vandam district on the west. The large Soho Cast-Iron Historic District extends east from West Broadway a half block from the boundary of the proposed district.

In a preface to the report, Berman notes that what many consider the heart of the Village — streets including Bleecker, Carmine, MacDougal, Sullivan, Thompson, Cornelia, Jones, Minetta and Minetta Lane — are included in the proposed South Village district but were missed when the Greenwich Village Historic District was designated in 1969.

The proposed district includes Our Lady of Pompei and St. Anthony of Padua churches, important in the history of Italian immigration.

“This proposed designation is…compelling because so much of the 19th- and early 20th-century built fabric of the area is intact. This is one of the few places where the landscape of working-class New York remains virtually unaltered,” the report says.

The area surveyed in the report could encompass a single South Village Historic District, or could be divided into subsections, with major streets and avenues serving as a divide.

The recorded history of the land within the study area begins in 1644, when New Netherlands Director General William Kieft transferred property north of the New Amsterdam settlement to African freed slaves to serve as a buffer against incursion by Native Americans. The report notes that Gracia D’Angola and Paulo D’Angola were among those of African descent who owned property in “the Negro land” that became today’s South Village.

But by the late 1600s, those properties had been sold to large landowners and most of the land in the South Village had become the property in 1690 of Nicholas Bayard, grandson of the original Dutch settler of the same name, the report says.

By the 1820s and 1830s, major residential development was taking place with houses both modest and grand. Later, row houses were the fashion on St. Clement’s Pl. — now MacDougal St. between Bleecker and Houston Sts. — on Varick Pl. — now Sullivan St. between Bleecker and Houston Sts. — and Depau Pl. between Thompson and Houston Sts.

The tenement era began around 1870 and reached its peak in the first years of the 20th century. The tenement was legally defined in 1869 as a building for more than three families living and cooking independently from each other. In 1887 the definition was expanded to buildings that housed just three families. And the term was used just to describe housing built for the poor with few amenities. Various changes in the housing laws mandated private toilets, running water, gas lines and one or more windows in every room.

“The South Village provides an opportunity to study and understand the entire history of tenement design, construction and use, with archetypical examples of pre-law, old-law, new-law and reform tenements,” according to the report, which, block by block and almost house by house, lays out the neighborhood history.

Among the advisory board members of the Historic South Village Preservation Project are Ann Arlen, former Community Board 2 Environment Committee chairperson and current public member of the committee; Katy Bordonaro and Zack Winestine, co-chairpersons of the Greenwich Village Community Task Force; Mary Elizabeth Brown, author of “From Italian Villages to Greenwich Village;” Miriam Cohen, Vassar College professor of history; Terri Cook, author of “Sacred Havens: A Guide to Manhattan’s Spiritual Places” and member of St. Veronica’s Parish Council; Karen Cooper, director of Film Forum; Dave Ethan, co-owner of Grey Dog Cafe; Margaret Halsey Gardiner, Merchant’s House Museum executive director and resident of MacDougal-Sullivan Gardens; Robert Kaufelt, owner of Murray’s Cheese; and Jerome Krase, Brooklyn College emeritus professor and board member of both the American Italian Coalition of Organizations and the American Italian Historical Society.

Albert@DowntownExpress.com

Downtown Express is published by
Community Media LLC.
145 Sixth Avenue, New York, NY 10013

[lofter1]

This ^^^ would be a very good idea.

Meanwhile, until LPC acts, the sound of owners filing applications at DOB to get potential project under the wire of existing regulations could be deafening ...

[Ninjahedge]

What???

[lofter1]

If that ^^ is addressed to my comment ...

Any number of sites within the proposed district where owners have been contemplating new devleopments could now see some action. Under DOB practice/ procedure once a certain amount of work has been done on a site then that proposal would be grandfathered in under prior regulations and thus not be affected by new more limiting Landmarks regulations.

[Hof]

Thirtyfive years ago,when 4th Street was jumping and hippie was in full flourish,when the coffee houses featured Dylan and Dave Van Ronk and "The Fantastix" had just opened at The Circle on The Square,I occupied a couple hundred square feet of a 5th floor walkup at 110 Thompson.
At the time,I thought it was the best location in the City.I worked just a few Subway stops South--across Barclay St from what would one day be the WTC--and I played just a few city blocks North,around Washington Square and Bleeker.
The Village was flourishing then,as the Baby Boomers discovered the pleasures of the City,and creativity was in full bloom.Folk singers and nacent rock stars played in dozens of clubs,Warhol was just beginning to reproduce things,the patrons at Stonewall were raising Gay Hell,pot was $30 an ounce...

I lived a few blocks South of Houston--it was still "The Village" then,none of that frou-frou "SOHO" stuff.Once you crossed Houston,the non-stop noise of the City nearly vanished.Here was where people lived,and it was respectfully quiet after 10,almost suburban quiet.

At the basement level of my home,sort of tucked under the stoop where a small convenience store is now,was an Italian "Social Club".It was always filled with well-dressed,middle aged,Cadillac-driving guys.They would stand out on the street,a glass of wine in their hands,discussing the days' business in fluent mother tongue.They would nod as I passed,a friendly bunch.
Right across the street was an authentic Italian bakery,where you could get the best pastries on the planet,and next to it was a tailor shop where you could get buttons sewed on for free if you lived in the neighborhood.There were TWO shoe repair shops,and Ben's Pizza,a hundred feet away at Spring St,made a juicy calzone that would feed a family of 4.
A couple Union Halls occupied some of the other storefronts,and the street was always busy,filled with olive-skinned people doing their thing.Above all these storefronts lived the remnants of the Immigrant Generation,all the Papas and Mamas who had defined THIS slice of New York as Little Italy.
I might have been the only German on the block.

When I first moved there,I was told by a stoop-sitter that it would be wise to find a parking space somewhere other than in front of the apartment.The fellows in the Social Club,I wad advised,enjoyed parking convenient to their club.After awhile,when these nicely dressed wiseguys got to know me,I got permission to park there as often as I wanted to.Sometimes,especially on weekends when half of New Jersey parked on our street,the Club members would save a spot for me.I would always reciprocate.

I did that for several months until my MGB got stolen and vanished forever.That was unusual,because Thompson St was one of the safest,crime-free locations in the City,due to all the Sons watching out for Mama and Papa.The wiseguys said they'd keep an eye out for it,but it never showed up.

There were probably a dozen places within a five minute walk that served pasta,and whenever the festival of San Gennarro took place,the streets around my place resembled a town in Sicily.Thompson and Spring was the epicenter of Italian life then,and the history of those streets is the history of NY itself,the story of the immigrants who populated the City in their strong enclaves until the '70s changed all that.

Little Italy is fast becoming a misty memory.It would be nice to preserve some of what it was.

[ManhattanKnight]

^Caused me to remember that delicious incident just 11 years ago when a clueless guy from Harlem, Willie King (aka "The World's Dumbest Mugger"), robbed an elderly lady walking at Sullivan St./West 3rd St. before discovering that she was the mother of Genovese godfather Vincent ("Bathrobe and Slippers") Gigante.Mugger (http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=FA0E11FB3E540C738EDDA10894DE494D81)

[Ninjahedge]

*cough*Meanwhile ... the sound ... could be deafening ...*cough*

[ZippyTheChimp]

^Caused me to remember that delicious incident just 11 years ago when a clueless guy from Harlem, Willie King (aka "The World's Dumbest Mugger"), robbed an elderly lady walking at Sullivan St./West 3rd St. before discovering that she was the mother of Genovese godfather Vincent ("Bathrobe and Slippers") Gigante.
I remember that.

Vinny The Chin.

[lofter1]

*cough*
*cough*

Try one of these ...

http://www.americarx.com/ProductImages/coughandcold/halls/201004.jpg

[ablarc]

Little Italy is fast becoming a misty memory.It would be nice to preserve some of what it was.
There were rag pickers in horse-drawn wagons.




And the historic district's a great idea.

But they already wrecked Sullivan Street. Used to be the prettiest one down there; I would detour just to revel in its beauty.

[NYatKNIGHT]

But they already wrecked Sullivan Street. Used to be the prettiest one down there; I would detour just to revel in its beauty.How so? I live on Sullivan near Prince St. - it hardly seems "wrecked", though I'm sure it has changed somewhat. Which street in your opinion is has overtaken it as the prettiest? ;)

I love where I live despite all the nostalgia of good ol' days gone by, for so many reasons. Hof, thanks once again for the colorful recollection of the old neighborhood. Obviously it isn't the same as it once was, but it's still a fantastic part of the city. By the way, the older Italians still linger there, and they come out of the woodwork when the church does their precession around the surrounding blocks on the Feast of St. Anthony every summer.

So it's to be a historic district - that's great to hear. But I agree with lofter, I wouldn't be surprised if the area is suddenly inundated with construction.

[ManhattanKnight]

The full (93 page) proposal for creating a South Village Historic District, with lots of history and photos, can be found HERE (http://www.gvshp.org/documents/SouthVillageDolkartReportPDF.pdf). A separate descriptive inventory of all buildings in the proposed district prepared by the GVSHP is HERE (http://www.gvshp.org/documents/SouthVillageBuildingList.pdf).

[ablarc]

How so? I live on Sullivan near Prince St. - it hardly seems "wrecked", though I'm sure it has changed somewhat. Which street in your opinion is has overtaken it as the prettiest? ;)

I love where I live despite all the nostalgia of good ol' days gone by, for so many reasons.
Oh, it's still plenty pretty, but do you remember it with the playhouse and the row of townhouses complete? As I recall, they were a harmony of diverse colors.

"Wrecked" is too strong a word (sorry!) --unless you remember it that way.

[NYatKNIGHT]

^Good stuff.

So has anyone heard this area referred as the "South Village" before, or did they make that up because "Greenwich Village" and "SoHo" already had historic districts? I've lived here for seven years and this is the first I've heard it called that.

[ManhattanKnight]

^What do you call it? What constitutes GV has shifted over the years. Originally, it didn't include anything east of 6th or 7th Aves (proud Washington Square North homeowners 120 years ago certainly did not consider themselves to be residents of GV -- a slum).

[ablarc]

^ The Knights speak. ;)

[MikeW]

Pul-leeze.

We need to get rid of the historic districts we have now, not be building more. You guys may want to see NY turned into dead, musty museum to itself. I don't.

[lofter1]

... has anyone heard this area referred as the "South Village" before ...

South Village

nytimes.com (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E0DF1039F93AA15750C0A9679482 60)
March 29, 1981

Letters to the Editor

To the Editor:

Your article (''N.Y.U. Programs of Rebuilding Drawing to a Close,'' Feb. 2) glides over the impact that these programs had on local communal groups.

The case of the Italian American community in the south Village is particularly interesting. In the 1950's, this working-class neighborhood was targeted by the university for urban renewal programs that would provide a residential infrastructure favorable to campus expansion. The tenements housing an Italian-American population whose roots in the area extended back to the Civil War (a local parish was established in 1866) were to be razed in order to build high-rise apartment houses for middle-class professionals.

Removal of the Italian-American population was justified on the ground that the area was a slum and that Italian-Americans lacked commitment to the neighborhood. In any event, the evacuation of Italian-American families was a precondition for upgrading Village schools. Coincidently, it was also a precondition for the construction of the apartment buildings.

Village Italian-Americans proved difficult to budge. Many families had lived in the neighborhood for several generations. Moreover, local Italian-Americans regarded the south Village as ''a family neighborhood,'' not a ''slum.'' The neighborhood reflected the higher standards of living achieved by the second and third generations. Italian-American politicians and civic leaders formed an organization to coordinate opposition to slum clearance. Despite high-level support for the project (including backing by Robert Moses), the heart of the Italian-American south Village was spared.

DONALD TRICARICO
Professor of Sociology
Queensborough Commmunity College
Bayside, N. Y.

[lofter1]

You guys may want to see NY turned into dead, musty museum to itself. I don't.

I want to see NYC saved from POS like this \/ which was recently erected at 159 Bleecker (atop the old Circle in the Square Theatre building):

http://images1.e-net.com/cbhunt/media/nycdevelopment/homepage/2.jpg

http://www.cbhk.com/newhomes/development.asp?EQ_nycdID=2&nycdBorough=Manhattan&nycdArea=Downtown

[Hof]

We kind of imagined the boundaries of The Village as;South and West of the Square,but not so West that you cross Sixth,unless it's like Bleeker or 4th.(Sixth Ave,by the way,was NEVER "Avenue of The Americas").
Up 6th a little,to just beyond Your Father's Moustache.
Down 6th to Canal...Some thought the Cast Iron District belonged,some didn't,and the Eastern part of GV ended at W Broadway,upto Astor Sq.
Canal --and Chinatown--defined the South boundary of GV...

[MikeW]

See, I have no problem with that building. It isn't even out of scale with it's neighbors. See the aerial view linked below. There's a large building across the street. By zoning it's probably as of right. There's no problem with this building, and the city shouldn't let the local NIMBY and luddite crowd create a problem where none exists.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=159+BLEECKER+st,+new+york,+ny&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=40.728206,-73.999105&spn=0.003008,0.005488&t=k&om=1

I want to see NYC saved from POS like this \/ which was recently erected at 159 Bleecker (atop the old Circle in the Square Theatre building):

http://images1.e-net.com/cbhunt/media/nycdevelopment/homepage/2.jpg

http://www.cbhk.com/newhomes/development.asp?EQ_nycdID=2&nycdBorough=Manhattan&nycdArea=Downtown

[lofter1]

It's not the size ^^ it's the rest of it -- it's an ugly POS that stands out like a sore thumb amongst the buildings along Bleecker Street.

In a Landmarked District a POS desing like that never would have passed muster.

So I say Landmark as much as we can.

[ZippyTheChimp]

See, I have no problem with that building.That's why you said this:

We need to get rid of the historic districts we have now, not be building more.

[ablarc]

It's not the size ^^ it's the rest of it -- it's an ugly POS that stands out like a sore thumb amongst the buildings along Bleecker Street.
I used to live on Bleecker Street and thought most of its buildings were no great shakes (exception: the apartment building directly across the street from the reputed POS). Actually I find the POS to be at least nicely scaled to its surroundings and fairly crisp, though I can't remember the building that preceded it. Got a pic?

[lofter1]

The north side of Bleecker from Thompson looking towards 6th Avenue ...

http://www.gvshp.org/DSC00922.JPG

Circle in the Square Theater site on the north side of Bleecker before demolition ...

http://www.gvshp.org/images/159Bleecker.JPG

Circle in the Square site post-demolition / new construction ...

http://www.gvshp.org/images/DSC04940_000.JPG

[ablarc]

In my opinion the new building is an improvement.

Additionally, it brings a ray of sunny Athens to this dour street.

[lofter1]

Those horrid balconies?

Even though the original building is no real prize there are 10 other designs --especially donsidering they built atop the existing structure -- that would be better than this.

And now imagine another 4 or 5 or 6 of these up & down those blocks :mad: .

[ablarc]

This stretch of street has plenty of streetlife, much of it quite lively. Those balconies will see lots of use in good weather; it's like having a grandstand seat on the passing scene. They will carry the street's animation up onto the streetwall.

[lofter1]

And no doubt they will look even better once they put up the cut-rate balustrades ...

If you see it up close you'll see it looks like it's all been done on the cheap.

[antinimby]

Balconies may not be very attractive but they are here to stay so we're just gonna have to learn to live with them as part of our streetscape.

With that said, those rectangular shaped balconies are just so totally devoid of any kind of artistry.

They look they came off the shelf of a home improvement store.

[Ninjahedge]

I have no problem with balconies, except when someone tries something different that they have no clue about. They look like sideways shower doors.

Also, comparing it to "sunny Athens"?

Where do you get that from? Teh only thing resembling it is the fact that it is tan and rectangular! This thing looks like a cheepie design by a guy that just got out of school. No real 3D interplay, all boxes.

Very old-skool video game like AAMOF!!!!


I have seen worse, no doubt about it, but this is about as spicy as vanilla.

[lofter1]

Some pics to show the "quality work" at 159 Bleecker ...

Note the straight-from-Chinatown balcony rails ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/159Bleecker_01a.jpg

It used to be a theatre ... can't quite seem to figure out what it is now ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/159Bleecker_01b.jpg

The oh-so-beautifully integrated entry to the lobby ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/159Bleecker_01c.jpg

[ablarc]

Also, comparing it to "sunny Athens"?

Where do you get that from?
Athens is mostly a dense, ugly, low-rise 20th Century city comprised of buildings that look EXACTLY like this one.

Use of the term "sunny" was somewhat ironic, as Athens has a severe smog problem. But also, the streets are narrow, like Bleecker, so often only the buildings' tops catch the sun --as this one does in the photo.

[ablarc]

The oh-so-beautifully integrated entry to the lobby ...
It's a hodge-podge --just like the rest of the street. Bleecker Street's no beauty spot.

[Fabrizio]

The building could be ok in another neighboorhood... and the Athens thing is right...or the outskirts of anywhere here....but for Bleecker?

And OMG look at street level.

That is the clumsiest, who gives a $hit, grafting job ever.

It looks illegal..like it was built over the weekend by the Mafia while everyone was out of town.


---

[lofter1]

It's a hodge-podge --just like the rest of the street.

Now you're just being stubborn ...

I know you hate it and can see it's a POS ...

But I won't push you too far ;)

[ablarc]

Oh, I know it sucks, but there are so many other new buildings in New York that do much more harm. All those full block, set-back, blank-walled, balconied, 40-story megaliths with ground-floor banks... Or how about every single building by O'Hara or Kaufman?

At least this one's comfy in its anarchic setting; it doesn't overwhelm.

That building going up on Columbus in the Nineties is MUCH worse.

[MidtownGuy]

Use of the term "sunny" was somewhat ironic, as Athens has a severe smog problem

Had. It's a somewhat outdated assessment. Measures taken in the 90's and 00's
have reduced Athens smog, or nefos as it's locally called, drastically. I visit Athens EVERY year. Last time was just 4 months ago, and there was no smog at all. The skies were piercing blue, and yes, very sunny. In fact, I have not experienced smog in Athens in about 5 years. Of course, this may just coincidentally be the days I'm there, but I've read corroborating reports all over the internet. Athens is not the city it was even 10 years ago, by a long shot. I'm going to put together an updated photo thread of Athens because it doesn't deserve such malignment anymore!

[ablarc]

^ Glad to hear it.

Yes, my info on Athens is ancient. I haven't been there in fifteen years.

How did they do it?

[antinimby]

Well for one, cars are cleaner burning than they were 15 years ago.

[MidtownGuy]

In fact, special price reductions and tax breaks were made available for those who purchase cars equipped with the latest anti-pollution technology. They have added a large number of electric buses to their fleet, and electric cars are being encouraged as well. Since 2002 and 2003, the addition of Shell Gtl to diesel fuels has further reduced smog problems. Then you have the modern and well used subway system that's been built and continues expanding. There are more things, I'm preparing a comprehensive Athens thread with pictures and explanations. The ongoing transformation of Athens is a largely unsung modern success story. Anyone who hasn't been in a decade or more would be shocked :eek: at the changes. There are still miles of cement blocks but interspersed you have lovely neoclassical buildings that are being renovated in huge numbers, and the greening of the city (over half a million trees recently planted) is softening the concrete jungle. Of course, the thing about balconies in Athens is that they're usually teeming with plants and flowers, which in my opinion is wonderful. There are streets that look like hanging gardens. It isn't the cold clean aesthetic of many Western cities but it has it's own beauty. Most visitors to Athens, on their typical 1 or 2 day stop before heading to the islands, never even see much of this sprawling city beyond the central area.
Well, to be back on topic I'll continue this elsewhere.:)

[MikeW]

Holy threadjack! How'd we get for a W Village historic district to pollution in Athens?

[MidtownGuy]

It's called a conversation. Happens some times.:rolleyes:

[ablarc]

How'd we get for a W Village historic district to pollution in Athens?
The bridge was a POS.

[Empire State]

That's a pretty damn hideous building. Frankly, I am all for putting historic districts in some of NYC's finest neighborhoods. Most of what is being built here is a sin. Bed-stuy and harlem should get the same protection. Build new housing in the places that need it, like Brownsville.

[MikeW]

Oh yeah, that's right :rolleyes:

Take what used to be some of the worst slums in the city, and just when they're starting to improve, slap big bureaucratic roadblocks on them. The city needs the housing wherever the developers are willing to build it.

That's a pretty damn hideous building. Frankly, I am all for putting historic districts in some of NYC's finest neighborhoods. Most of what is being built here is a sin. Bed-stuy and harlem should get the same protection. Build new housing in the places that need it, like Brownsville.

[ZippyTheChimp]

N.Y.U. support for new historic district goes south

http://www.thevillager.com/villager_206/nyu.gif
A map showing the full South Village Historic District
in the proposal backed by the Greenwich Village Society
for Historic Preservation and South Village Landmark Association.

By Lincoln Anderson

Four years ago, when New York University expressed its initial approval for creating a South Village Historic District, there was an understandable incredulity among local community leaders and preservationists. N.Y.U. endorse designating a new historic district? The same university that, just a few years before, had built a massive new law school building in the South Village on the site of the former Poe House on W. Third St.? (A facsimile of the Poe House’s facade was reconstructed in the new project, but for all intents and purposes, the historic building had been razed.)

Yet, at a meeting at Our Lady of Pompei Church four years ago between community members and Michael Haberman, then-N.Y.U. director of government and community affairs, specific boundaries for a South Village Historic District had been proposed. And, surprisingly, N.Y.U. had accepted them.

Still, N.Y.U.’s fully supporting a new landmarked district somehow seemed too good to be true. Now, it appears, N.Y.U.’s pledge may have been just that.

N.Y.U. recently hired a new planning team. These planners reviewed the South Village Historic District proposal and have decided it’s too large and that certain areas should be removed from it.

In a March 9 letter, Alicia Hurley, N.Y.U. associate vice president for government and community affairs, informed Andrew Berman, director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, of the university’s revised position. Hurley’s letter cc’ed Robert Tierney, chairperson of the city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission.

In her letter, Hurley states, “N.Y.U. supports the study of this general area to investigate a possible historic district…. However, the [designation report] does not necessarily demonstrate that the entire area weaves together as a single cohesive historic district. The proposed historic district abuts three existing districts and subsumes one existing district (Sullivan Street Historic District) [sic] Given the four other historic districts in this area, it seems worth considering whether it is more appropriate to seek expansions of existing districts that share characteristics with the proposed area and create a smaller South Village Historic District that embodies the working-class and immigrant neighborhood outlined in the report. Additionally, the relatively large area, 40 blocks, covered by the proposal may include certain areas, such as portions of Sixth and Seventh Aves., which would not necessarily merit incorporation within a historic district.”

Four days later, Hurley sent a brief letter to Landmarks Chairperson Tierney stating that N.Y.U. supports the landmarking initiative. Hurley stated in this second letter that the university looks forward to “a full review of the study area…with an eye toward eventual designation.”

Berman, whose G.V.S.H.P. has spearheaded the South Village Historic District effort, was incensed upon receiving Hurley’s initial letter. He said Hurley’s subsequent letter to Tierney was just an attempt at damage control on N.Y.U.’s part. In reality, Berman feels, N.Y.U. is trying to play it both ways — claiming to support the proposal, but, in fact, working to undermine it.

“I’m almost speechless,” Berman said in a recent interview. “It’s like ‘1984.’ N.Y.U.’s doublespeak is appalling. I feel like the clock is about to strike 13.”

Berman blasted Hurley’s recommendation to expand abutting, existing historic districts — such as the Soho Cast-Iron Historic District — instead of creating a new historic district.

“That is absurd,” he fumed, “because there are no cast-iron buildings in the area to extend the Soho Cast-Iron District into. It’s apples and oranges. It’s ludicrous.

“They seem to be saying they support a district as long as it’s not the boundaries that we proposed,” Berman continued. “We all know what their promise was and we know that they’re breaking their promise. They’re doing this because they want to control the boundaries — I assure — to protect their interests. They’ve broken their word, as they have so many times in the past. Surprise, surprise.”

Andrew Dolkart, one of the city’s most respected architectural historians, prepared G.V.S.H.P.’s South Village Historic District designation report. The proposed area would be the city’s first tenement-based landmarked district, and is unified by its history as an immigrant enclave, particularly for Italian immigrants.

The proposal is supported by the National Trust for Historic Preservation and the Preservation League of New York State. It also has been championed by local politicians Congressmember Jerrold Nadler, State Senators Tom Duane and Martin Connor and Assemblymember Deborah Glick. G.V.S.H.P.’s South Village proposal is also backed by more than two dozen local community groups, including the Soho Alliance, Central Village Block Association, Greenwich Village Block Associations, Bedford Downing Block Association, Thompson Sullivan Coalition and the Morton St. and W. Houston St. block associations.

“Yet N.Y.U. thinks that their ‘expertise’ in preservation is better than these folks,” Berman scoffed, “which is ridiculous.” (Berman also noted with frustration that in her letter to him, Hurley incorrectly called the landmarked MacDougal-Sullivan Gardens Historic District the “Sullivan Street Historic District.”)

In addition, 40 community and business leaders are firmly behind the proposal, including Lucy Cecere, founder of the Caring Community: Rob Kaufelt, owner of Murray’s Cheese; Karen Cooper, director of the Film Forum; Pi Gadner, director of the Merchant’s House Museum and a MacDougal-Sullivan Gardens Historic District resident; and the presidents of the boards of several co-ops in the proposed district.

The G.V.S.H.P. director has asked Hurley to write a “retraction letter,” in which N.Y.U. would pledge support for the full proposed South Village Historic District, but so far she has refused.

“N.Y.U. undermining a preservation effort would not be a story,” Berman said. “But for four years, N.Y.U. explicitly promised to support this proposal — and now they’re going back on their word…. There are 200-year-old buildings on Sixth Ave. that need protection.”

“I don’t think this is a story,” Hurley responded. “To be clear, N.Y.U. favors the designation of a South Village Historic District. When we approached G.V.S.H.P. about participation on their advisory board, hoping to join the conversation about the proposal as it moves forward, it was misconstrued as our not being supportive.

“It’s disappointing and regretful that this has turned into anything other than our request to G.V.S.H.P. to be part of a very important conversation,” she added. “I know this is New York City, but not everything has to be a fight, and particularly when we actually agree on the substance of a matter.”

But Berman says, at this point, he really has no idea what areas N.Y.U. would actually want to include in the new district — or expanded existing districts.

In fact, N.Y.U. never put any specific commitment in writing four years ago. Yet, Berman and others say they had the clear impression that N.Y.U., at that initial meeting, agreed to the same boundaries the community wanted.

Two local community activists who were at the Our Lady of Pompei meeting four years ago clearly recall N.Y.U. committing to support the full South Village Historic District proposal.

Stuart Waldman, a longtime advocate for landmarking Greenwich Village’s waterfront, attended the meeting. He recalls N.Y.U. giving wholehearted support for the G.V.S.H.P. proposal.

“They came out [in support] by themselves,” he said. “There was no question. The boundaries, to my memory, they were really for it. Absolutely, it was set there — there were large boundaries.

“It seems to me, when an institution makes a commitment, they should keep it,” Waldman said. “I live right in the district — and I’m disappointed. If they support it, they should support it the way they did four years ago.”

Yet, he said, “I’m not surprised that N.Y.U. would say one thing and do another. They imply that you’re wrong to criticize them. They have an arrogance about them, as anyone who lives in the Village knows — and I had two sons who went to N.Y.U. They’re a corporation. They might be a nonprofit corporation, but they’re a corporation.”

“Sure I remember. It was my meeting!” said David Gruber, head of the ad-hoc group SoVilLA (South Village Landmark Association). “I was surprised — these were our boundaries. And, in my mind, N.Y.U. had agreed to these boundaries. And I don’t understand why N.Y.U. would now take Sixth Ave. out. It’s my feeling that maybe this wasn’t 100 percent thought out — that maybe they’ll want to go back to the original district, because Sixth Ave. is the most obvious.”

Gruber said the, in his view, garish strip of tattoo and sex shops on Sixth Ave. is one of the area’s most glaring quality of life problems. Landmarking wouldn’t disallow these uses, but would ensure building facades adhere to a tasteful standard — “so it wouldn’t look like Coney Island,” Gruber said.

“Our position is this is an historic area,” Gruber said of the South Village. “It should have been landmarked in the ’60s, when the rest of Greenwich Village was. What I would like N.Y.U. to do is come out with a strong, unequivocal statement saying, ‘We support the boundaries of the landmark district as proposed.’ ”

Meanwhile, Haberman, N.Y.U.’s former director of government and community affairs, after a stint as an outreach official with the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, is now president of PENCIL (Public Education Needs Civic Involvement in Learning). Reached on Tuesday, Haberman was not forthcoming about what he may or may not remember about the Our Lady of Pompei meeting four years ago at which he allegedly said the university stood behind the boundaries of the full South Village Historic District proposal.

“I’m not going to speak on this — talk to N.Y.U.,” Haberman said. He said it was the first he had heard of the flap. “I haven’t thought about it for three years,” he said. “I’m not going to comment on something that happened five years ago.”

Community Board 2 has scheduled a public hearing on G.V.S.H.P.’s South Village Historic District proposal for Tues., April 24, at 6:30 p.m. at Our Lady of Pompei Hall, at Bleecker and Carmine Sts. (Enter on Bleecker St. and go downstairs.)


The Villager is published by Community Media LLC. 145 Sixth Avenue, New York, NY 10013
© 2007 Community Media, LLC

[lofter1]

Clearly something fishy was going on at 159 Bleecker ...



I want to see NYC saved from POS like this \/ which was recently erected at 159 Bleecker (atop the old Circle in the Square Theatre building)


Soft Market? What Soft Market?

Big Deal

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/13/realestate/13deal.2.190.jpg
159 Bleecker Street

NY TIMES (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/realestate/13Deal1.html?em&ex=1179115200&en=fe8e51743a405a25&ei=5087%0A)
By JOSH BARBANEL
May 13, 2007

The Dalton Dorm Mystery

One of many mysteries buried deep in the file cabinets of the Department of Buildings is the case of the student dormitory of the Dalton School, a private day school on the Upper East Side that has thrived for most of the last century without the need for a dormitory or residence for students in kindergarten through high school.

But last October, a Greenwich Village developer filed a restrictive declaration promising to turn over six apartments in a eight-story building at 159 Bleecker Street to the school for use as a student dormitory. “The units for Student Dormitory will be occupied by students only, and not their family,” said the declaration, submitted by Emmut Properties, the developer.

The document surfaced when the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation began looking into how the apartment building, constructed atop a two-story structure that once housed the Circle in the Square Theater, had gotten permission to be so tall and bulky. It towers over the small tenements surrounding it and has balconies that extend over the street.

The building, it learned, received a bonus allowing it to be built larger, often up to 20 percent larger, in exchange for providing “community facilities” — space for doctor’s offices, schools or dormitories — under a provision of the zoning code.

When the preservation group objected, the Department of Buildings held up occupancy of the building. But the agency reversed itself and issued a temporary certificate of occupancy, after the developer promised that the units would be used as a Dalton student dormitory.

Ellen Stein, the head of school at Dalton, and Edward Pinger, the chief financial officer, did not respond to several phone calls last week and an e-mail message seeking comment about the filing. John Young, a principal at Emmut Properties, also did not return calls.

But Andrew Berman, the preservation society’s executive director, said that when he checked with Dalton he was told the apartments would be used for faculty housing, a use he said was prohibited under zoning-code changes designed to eliminate abuses by developments.

“The community facility regulations are being abused as a way to make buildings bigger,” he said. “If the building is in fact larger than it is allowed, they should remove the illegal square footage.”

The developer originally put 16 condominiums on the market, but when the market softened last year, the building was switched to a rental structure. Apartments are being marketed by Coldwell Banker Hunt Kennedy.

Mr. Berman has also objected to the size of the balconies and questioned whether the building was too large even with the community-use bonus.

Kate Lindquist, a spokeswoman for the Department of Buildings, confirmed that faculty housing is not an approved community use. “The Building Department is requesting an inspection to ensure the dorms are being used as outlined in the restrictive declaration,” she said. In an earlier audit, she added, the department objected to the balconies and the developer “addressed the objection and resubmitted the plans,” which were approved.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

[pianoman11686]

Really weird^. I know a few people who went to Dalton for grammar school, and my impression was that the place was a very Upper East Side-heavy institution. I couldn't imagine this building being used as a dorm for those students. The whole connection sounds unusual. Maybe someone at Dalton is in the family of the developer?

[Ninjahedge]

That building is HORRIBLE, but seeing the building next to it, it is not far off of the "standard" that was made by some previous people.

Sometimes you have to, in a market as compeditive as this, require a builder to IMPROVE on a neighborhood rather than just use it. Buildings like this are built to make the most $$ for the least output ($). With buildings going for as much as they do now in NYC, we should not be forced to build crap for the sake of "renewal".

[pianoman11686]

Greenwich Pillage

Before NYU puts up another eyesore, the South Village seeks protection

by Kristen Lombardi
May 15th, 2007 10:40 AM

Andrew Berman is standing beneath the iconic arch in Washington Square Park, facing south toward Lower Manhattan. Not so long ago, the leader of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation would come to this spot to take in the downtown skyline. But no more.

"You can see why this building is so hideously ugly," he says, motioning to a hulking structure called the New York University Kimmel Center. Its curved-glass and yellow-stone facade interrupts the horizon, standing out among nearby brownstones. Berman points to another building rising up behind an old church, dwarfing it in size. That's the NYU law school, once the site of Edgar Allan Poe's house, now home to what looks like, in his words, "a grain silo tipped on its side."

When it comes to development, he adds, "NYU does not have a good track record."

Which is part of the reason Berman and his 2,000-strong organization have submitted a proposal to the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission that would make the South Village a historic district. The district would consist of 800 buildings and 40 blocks, covering those south of West 4th to Broome streets, between La Guardia Place and Seventh Avenue.

Since Italian immigrants settled here in the 1870s, the neighborhood has served as an epicenter for most of New York's great countercultural movements, from bohemian in the 1920s to Beatnik and folk in the '50s and '60s to gay and lesbian in the '70s. If approved, the area would mark the city's first tenement- and immigrant-based historic district. Backers are hoping to prevent big and boorish development—luxury condos, glass hotels, and, of course, NYU buildings.

Locals tick off the names of lost buildings as if reciting the names of the dead. The old Circle in the Square Theater is now an uninspired 10-story apartment building. The historic Sullivan Street Playhouse has just been replaced by a glass-fronted condominium tower. The 1920s art-deco parking garage known as the Tunnel Garage has become a hole in the ground. Construction crews are currently laying the foundation for swank housing.

Though South Villagers worry about these developments, they're especially worried about NYU. Folks still remember an exploratory meeting on the GVSHP proposal four years ago, when Berman outlined existing boundaries. Back then, an NYU official had surprised the crowd and embraced the idea.

"They basically said, 'These boundaries are fine,' " recalls Stu Waldman, who lives on Bedford Street and who attended that 2003 meeting.

While some residents are now accusing the university of backpedaling, a spokesman for NYU, John Beckman, says the university has always had questions about the boundaries.

"This whole kerfuffle deserves to be in the annals of misinterpretation because we all support the same goal," Beckman said. "I know that as New Yorkers we all like to fight over everything, especially real estate and development, but in this case we all agree [on the need for a district]."

Berman is gearing up for the next hearing on the proposal in June, calling residents and business owners, urging them to sign on to the movement. But he suspects that NYU—and any big developer who has designs on property here—has already gone straight to City Hall. In response,

Beckman says NYU has been in contact with the city: "We wrote a letter to the Landmarks Preservation Commission supporting the district; that's the extent of it."

Copyright © 2007 Village Voice (http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0720,lombardi,76651,15.html) LLC, 36 Cooper Square, New York, NY 10003

[pianoman11686]

Historic South Village in limbo

By Justin Rocket Silverman, amNewYork (http://www.amny.com/news/local/am-village0521,0,6108574.story?coll=am-topheadlines) Staff Writer
jsilverman@am-ny.com

May 21, 2007

From 1820s Federal style homes, to the early 20th century site of one the city's first lesbian bars, to the Beat poet cafes of the 1950s, the southern end of Greenwich Village is easily among the most unique slices of urban history anywhere in the United States.

Yet most of the area lacks the landmark status granted almost 40 years ago to the rest of Greenwich Village, leaving structures like the Edgar Allan Poe House, demolished in 2001 to make way for NYU Law School, defenseless against the wrecking ball.

"The South Village was really the heart of the immigrant, especially Italian immigrant, section, while the rest of Greenwich Village was a little more genteel, a little more upscale," said Andrew Berman, executive director of the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, which is spearheading an effort to landmark the South Village.

Defined as a 35-block area roughly south of West 4th Street, between LaGuardia Place and Seventh Avenue, the South Village was part of the original Greenwich Village Historic District application in 1969.

But the area didn't make it into the final protected district, leaving the neighborhood vulnerable to a temperamental real estate market and profit-hungry developers.

"Most of the neighborhood is still remarkably intact," said Berman, "and we'd like to keep it that way."

The South Village was recently given a layer of protection when it was made eligible for inclusion on the State and National Register of Historic Places. Now no public money can be used to build structures that would be out of character with surrounding blocks.

NYU, by far the largest presence in the South Village, can no longer use state financing to build dormatories. University spokesman John Beckman says a full historic designation could "make it more complicated" to build new campus facilities, but that NYU recognizes the value of the area's historic character and fully supports efforts to make a South Village historic district.

Berman, however, says NYU has raised the ire of many area residents by raising issues about the appropriate boundaries for the neighborhood.

The Landmarks Preservation Commission is reviewing the request to landmark the South Village, a lengthy process that includes evaluating each building and contacting nearly every landlord.

Spokeswoman Elisabeth de Bourbon said there is no estimated time frame for when the commission might act, but that letters in favor or opposed to the designation can be submitted through www.nyc.gov/html/lpc.

Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.

[lofter1]

A REMINDER to please write to the LPC to SUPPORT Landmark designation for this neighborhood:


... letters in favor or opposed to the designation can be submitted through:

www.nyc.gov/html/lpc (http://www.nyc.gov/html/lpc).

[ablarc]

South Village is certainly worthier of designation tha Sunnyside Gardens --also up for designation. The latter may be "historic" in that it became the darling of Lewis Mumford and other utopian socialists, but it's dull and has only negative lessons to teach about urbanism.

[lofter1]

Clearly something fishy was going on at 159 Bleecker ...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/13/realestate/13deal.2.190.jpg

159 Bleecker Street

The Dalton Dorm Mystery


Dalton Dorm Saga Over

NY TIMES
By JOSH BARBANEL
November 11, 2007

Big Deal

THE Dalton School, the prestigious private school on the Upper East Side, has dropped out of the dormitory business, public records show.

A year ago, the developer of an eight-story building at 159 Bleecker Street in Greenwich Village received a bonus that allowed the building to be larger than what otherwise would have been allowed at the site, where the Circle in the Square Theater once stood, by promising to provide dormitory space for Dalton to be “occupied by students only.”

The only problem was that Dalton does not have any boarding students. A preservation group, the Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation, complained about the oversized building to the Department of Buildings.

An amended application filed last month by the developer, Emmut Properties, proposed to change dormitory space on the third floor into two conventional apartments.

In a letter to the Department of Building, Andrew Berman, the executive director of the preservation group, said city officials had confirmed that the school had terminated its agreement with the developer of the building.

Mr. Berman said that without the bonus space provided by the dormitory it was not clear how the developer could justify such a large building. The amended application has, so far, been marked as “disapproved” in the city’s online records.

Ellen Stein, the head of school at Dalton, did not respond to a telephone call and an e-mail message seeking comment about the filing. John Young, a principal at Emmut Properties, also did not return calls.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company