Comparing Apples to Oranges

[HGNY]

In my continuing quest to find a place to live, finding comparables is sometimes a problem. One way that places tend to differ is in amenities. Anyone have rules of thumb based on experience of how much things should add to the ppsf? For example, no doorman vs pt vs ft, concierge, gym, etc.
Or maybe another way to look at it would be:
none, pt doorman, normal luxury level, ian schrager uber-luxury level


Thoughts?

[bigkdc]

I think you answered your own question. When looking at comps you should look at them in sub-categories. For example, the ppsf for a Richard Meier apt shouldn't really be compared to any of no-amenity co-ops right across the street. There is enough data in each category to be a bit more specific.

That being said if anyone has a rule of thumb for value of a doorman, outdoor space, etc, I'd love to see it.

[HGNY]

Ideally, that would be correct. The reality is, it is not always possible to find something that is a good comp so you need to either find a comp in another neighborhood and somehow adjust for the cost of the neighborhood OR find a comp in the hood in adjust for luxury, size, outdoorspace, etc.

[Front_Porch]

Gosh, if only there were professionals who could do this for you.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

[HGNY]

I'm working with a professional. So far, she hasn't provided any such insight so I figure it is up to me to do research.

She does know a bit but doesn't quite seem to approach this in the same analytical way that I do.

[Front_Porch]

Well, I think the way you do, so the fact that anyone else thinks differently blows my mind.

I guess I'm a bit of a geek, because I tend to say you "at your budget you could buy A, or you could go up $100K and buy B, or if you could move to a better 'hood and buy C but you'd lose a half bath . . . "

But on the other hand, I can't rule-of-thumb you because it's so neighborhood specific. Doormen are worth more in Harlem than they are in Tribeca.

Maybe one thing to try is to ask your agent for equivalent strata of buildings? (E.g. in Greenwich Village co-op world, the Brevoort and Two Fifth Avenue are "A" buildings, maybe the John Adams and the Vermeer are a notch below that, etc.)

Another thing that may help is cityrealty.com -- I don't use the site regularly anymore because I hate the new software, but there used to be a "peer buildings" function where you would give it one address and it would give you "like" buildings.

hope that helps

ali r.
{downtown broker}

[HGNY]

What are people's views on valuing outdoor space?

When I think PPSF, should I be incorporating the outdoor space in the calcuation? Or should the outdoor space be discounted somehow?

I've found a potentially two places that are interesting to me.
One has a lot of outdoor space but a high (ignoring the outdoor space) PPSF. The other has much less outdoor space but a more reasonable PPSF. However, the higher PPSF one is actually a better fit (primarily because of the absolute size).

I want to avoid significantly overvaluing the outdoor space and getting screwed if I decide to sell in five or ten years.

[HGNY]

I dug through some archives and one valuation was quoted as 1/3 the value of the indoor space.

[Front_Porch]

You really need to think about your potential buyer here.

If the outdoor space could provide a play area, even during the summer, to someone with kids, it's probably worth more than if it is a place for adults-without-kids to have their coffee.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

[bigkdc]

You are smart for being wary of outdoor space and how to value it. I have noticed that new developments have been putting very high price tags on the units with outdoor space.

Other things to think about are views, noise level in the area, sun exposure, privacy and the building's rules vis-a-vis the outdoor space (eg, can you grill). Also think about if the building has a public roofdeck which in some ways makes the private outdoor space less unique to the building in question.

Also, is the building near a big park? As Front Porch said if a buyer has kids but there is an amazing playground across the street, the outdoor space in your apt prob is worth a bit less to them.

The other thing I see is that people get really excited about outdoor space because they have visions of romantic candelit outdoor dinners but then once they live there they realize its too cold to do that half of the year and they don't really use it as much as they thought they would.

I'd bet if you asked the sponsors at 255 Hudson before they started to market the building about the townhouse units with the 1200sf backyards, they would have said they would sell immediately. My impression has been those units have been really hard to move...At the end of the day, you are paying a lot more money for something that is unusable for long periods of time.

Front Porch - I'd love your opinion but I'd think most apartment hunters who have a budget would rather allocate more money to indoor space, better finishes, better neighborhood, etc than to outdoor space

[Front_Porch]

In general, if you're on a budget, outdoor space is a luxury -- like a fireplace -- and most people would rather have a better kitchen or be in a better neighborhood.

Besides, there are so many laws about grilling in NYC that you can't really use your terrace for BBQ the way you can out in the 'burbs.

The exception is that outdoor space can be great if you're on a budget, and you're getting a small apartment, and you want that balcony or that roof access to feel like your apartment is "distinctive." As I think we've discussed on the 80 John thread, the building is a conversion of an office building, so there are some apartments where the back bedroom opens onto an airshaft, but there's a breakfast terrace in front, so for your sub-$1million purchase price your apartment still feels "special," not cookie-cutter.

Also, with a small space, even a little bit of outdoor space can feel like an extra room. If you have a three-bedroom, and a five-foot-wide wrap terrace, it's kind of useless because it doesn't scale to the grandiosity of your apartment and you can't really have parties on it. If you have a one-bedroom, and a 4-by-8 terrace, suddenly that feels like a real extra place.

I'm not trying to be evasive, but I really do like to see the apple and the orange in question before I pick one.

ali r.
{downtown broker}