Are the "elites" driving out struggling artists?

[haloperi]

Would you say that New York City's ever growing high class society is pushing out people that New York City once drew in (the struggling artists)?

and I say "artists" regarding all art forms; painters, singers, actors, writers, directors, designers

and will New York City truly remain the cultural/art capital of the world if the only people living there will be people who have $50,000 shopping sprees?



:mad: I heard CBGB's ultimately closed :(

[bigkdc]

That has been happening for years and years....new york is a massive city so I expect that there will always be solid artists' enclaves. You may be right about manhattan and its role but think the city as a whole is fine.

[clubBR]

what are those solid enclaves? L.I.C. would count as one, no?

[MikeW]

What you're missing is that this is a standard part of the real estate food chain in NY (and beyond).

Artists are the truffle pigs of real estate. They get to sniff out he tasty morsels of usable space buried in the otherwise semi-abandoned postindustrial detritus. But they only get to enjoy a small fraction of what they find till the truffle collector (in this case, the real estate developers) take away the rest to sell to his customers. The cycle started in SoHo, moved on to TriBeCa, then to DUMBO, and the rest of Williamsburg, and to whatever the next set of 'hot' neighborhoods will be.

It's the way of nature in NY. The only thing that will change is when they run out of post-industrial ruins to resurrect. Of course then the whole scene will move on to other cities. I'm hearing that this is happening already, in Philadelphia.

[haloperi]

What you're missing is that this is a standard part of the real estate food chain in NY (and beyond).

Artists are the truffle pigs of real estate. They get to sniff out he tasty morsels of usable space buried in the otherwise semi-abandoned postindustrial detritus. But they only get to enjoy a small fraction of what they find till the truffle collector (in this case, the real estate developers) take away the rest to sell to his customers. The cycle started in SoHo, moved on to TriBeCa, then to DUMBO, and the rest of Williamsburg, and to whatever the next set of 'hot' neighborhoods will be.

It's the way of nature in NY. The only thing that will change is when they run out of post-industrial ruins to resurrect. Of course then the whole scene will move on to other cities. I'm hearing that this is happening already, in Philadelphia.
Clever analogy with the "truffles" :)
and what you have to say truly seems like the way NYC is headed (if it isn't there already)
It really is just a matter of time for those "truffle collectors" to sniff out everything.
If so, what do you think will happen to Manhattan itself?
Will it just be one big tourist spot with a few wall street suits floating around?

Is this is too far into the future? Heh.

[Stern]

This has happened forever and is a good thing for New York. Artists move to an area that is considered unattractive and thus affordable, they in turn make the area trendy with their presence. It happened to Soho, Tribeca, and Williamsburg. They get pushed out and move to a new unattractive and affordable area. Believe it or not, I’ve heard that Bedford Stuyvesant is the next artist hotspot.

[lofter1]

Don't forget that when the cast iron buildings of SoHo went up ithat was the center of NYC retail -- and the top of the line. Then it went into decline as the economics of the city shifted.

The economy will shift again. When? Who knows.

What is a cutting edge area now could -- in 50-100 years -- be a run down, undesirable area. And some enterprising folks will set a stake.

That's the optimist's view, of course :cool:

[BrooklynRider]

As far as edgy and hip goes, Manhattan is dead. Look to the boroughs for anything interesting and then look for the assholes that want to think they're edgy and hip to chase them down and out.

[ryan]

The only thing that will change is when they run out of post-industrial ruins to resurrect. Of course then the whole scene will move on to other cities. I'm hearing that this is happening already, in Philadelphia.

Artists can't leave the city because they need to be close to the collectors who fund the industry. Otherwise they'd all move to Detroit.

[MidtownGuy]

Those aren't the only type of artists that haloperi was asking about.

and I say "artists" regarding all art forms; painters, singers, actors, writers, directors, designers

[Ninjahedge]

Artists can't leave the city because they need to be close to the collectors who fund the industry. Otherwise they'd all move to Detroit.

Detroit??!?

http://damienkatz.net/pics/kentuckyfriedmovie2.jpg

[ryan]

Detroit is the capital of the rust belt, which is among the cheapest places in the the country to live. I'll assume that image has something to do with Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin)...in a good way.

[Ninjahedge]

Detroit is the capital of the rust belt, which is among the cheapest places in the the country to live. I'll assume that image has something to do with Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin)...in a good way.

*cough* (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kentucky_Fried_Movie)

:D

[lofter1]

I'll assume that image has something to do with Vincent Chin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin) ...


I thought that ^^^ referred to this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_%22the_Chin%22_Gigante) :o (an artist in his own particular way)

[clubBR]

What do you all think would be the next "artist hotspots" in nyc?
I honestly think after L.I.C. is done and overpriced, they will flee to North Shore, Staten Island.

[ryan]

Bushwick.

[Luca]

As far as edgy and hip goes, Manhattan is dead. Look to the boroughs for anything interesting and then look for the assholes that want to think they're edgy and hip to chase them down and out.

Wow. Real angst there.... I visited SoHo when it was truly edgy (as in friggin' scary). Kinda dead. I went back 4 years later: pretty interesting - but surrounded by a dead zone and with limited offerings for a visitor. Went back 4 years later: lots of nice shops/restaurants but a bit too crowded at the weekend. My advice as a visitor si that typically at teh edge of 'discovered' areas there is still intersting stuff an it's less in-your-face-touristy.

I do think some soi-disant hipsters think that if they spot one person who's not in their precious little set or any evidence of gentrification then the area is autoamtically a pathetic parody of tiself and ruined beyond hope. I think that's a bit 'teenage' silly as in: I only like a band if my parents hate it... :rolleyes:

[MikeW]

Actually more a suit spot with bunches of tourists floating around (it ain't the tourists who are buying all those condos).

The gentrification will continue until something or someone drops the hammer again. By that I mean a major local economic contraction like we saw from the late 60's to '82. It was that contraction that created the post-industrial wastelands that the artistic types colonized in the first place, and keep try to ferrite out pockets of to this day.

It would take something like a major decampment or collapes of the financial industry. This would then create a post-financial wasteland that would create fallow ground for the artists to take over. But short of that, things will continue to get tightter, smaller, and more expensive.

Clever analogy with the "truffles" :)
and what you have to say truly seems like the way NYC is headed (if it isn't there already)
It really is just a matter of time for those "truffle collectors" to sniff out everything.
If so, what do you think will happen to Manhattan itself?
Will it just be one big tourist spot with a few wall street suits floating around?

Is this is too far into the future? Heh.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Believe it or not, I’ve heard that Bedford Stuyvesant is the next artist hotspot.
It better not be, unless it's from artist within. The younger generation is starting to get aware and won't allow this to happen without a fight.

[MikeW]

I don't think they'll have too much choice in the matter. The artists have been know to put up with tough neighborhoods before (in fact, they tend to look for them).

It better not be, unless it's from artist within. The younger generation is starting to get aware and won't allow this to happen without a fight.

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

I don't think they'll have too much choice in the matter. The artists have been know to put up with tough neighborhoods before (in fact, they tend to look for them).
True but this is a new generation. Some can say this Gen is worst than the ones before but the gems of this generation have so much more potential. I just people don't get to touchy feeling because as you said, the artist can tough and brutal(my words). Similar approach will be needed to counter.

[ryan]

What do you all actually mean when you say "artist"? Sounds like some kind of gentrifying vermin.

[Punzie]

Over the past few years I have seen an exponentially increasing number of artists in the Clinton Hill/Fort Greene area of Brooklyn. (The Pratt Institute of Architecture is in Clinton Hill.) Architect Arthur Wood is once again making big and controversial news with his house there, "The Broken Angel"; this can only add to the glamour of the neighborhood for artists.

Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/11/arts/design/11angel.html?ex=1326171600&en=a8fb60c84c6ace94&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss) is a 1/11/2007 New York Times article on Arthur Wood's "Broken Angel." I'm surprised that some member hasn't started a topic on it.:)

[MikeW]

Artists are like the sodbuster of the old west. They put up with indian attacks, rancher attacts (the ranchers didn't like the farmers fencing off 'their' land), and brutal enviromental conditions, and managed to settle the great plains. The artists do the same with decrepit neighborhoods.

True but this is a new generation. Some can say this Gen is worst than the ones before but the gems of this generation have so much more potential. I just people don't get to touchy feeling because as you said, the artist can tough and brutal(my words). Similar approach will be needed to counter.

[posterboy]

Over the past few years I have seen an exponentially increasing number of artists in the Clinton Hill/Fort Greene area of Brooklyn. (The Pratt Institute of Architecture is in Clinton Hill.)

Clinton Hill is already thoroughly gentrified (you know that it's safe when the celebs (http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2005/07/brooklyn_celebr.html) start moving in). The current destination for students/ artists is bed-stuy and the eastern part of prospect heights, toward crown heights (or has been, for the last few years, really). also the area right around the bqe.

[clubBR]

Once pushed out of Hunters Point in Queens, where would artists/students go next?

[Mayor of Brooklyn]

Artists are like the sodbuster of the old west. They put up with indian attacks, rancher attacts (the ranchers didn't like the farmers fencing off 'their' land), and brutal enviromental conditions, and managed to settle the great plains. The artists do the same with decrepit neighborhoods.
lol. True but you can learn from history.

[clubBR]

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/nyc_brock/CreativeClasslarge.jpg

[clubBR]

anyone know what the gray areas represent?

[ryan]

So it would appear the "elites" haven't driven artists out of...anywhere. Grey is non-residential. You should post a link to the source.