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clubBR
May 8th, 2007, 03:25 AM
Al Sharpton Leads March Calling For More 'Decency' In Hip-Hop Lyrics

Reverend led demonstration across New York Thursday evening.

By Jayson Rodriguez


NEW YORK — The Reverend Al Sharpton led a demonstration across Manhattan Thursday evening (May 3) that saw him and a throng of supporters march to three of the four major record companies, calling for more "decency" in hip-hop lyrics.
(Watch a video timeline of hip-hop under fire over the years, right here. (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1558664/20070503/2pac.jhtml))
The march was in part a response to comments made by fired shock jock Don Imus, who claimed if his controversial remarks were made by a rapper it'd result in a hit song. Sharpton confronted Imus over his remarks on his own radio program, "The Sharpton Show," and vowed he would also challenge the hip-hop industry to clean up its act as well (see "Hip-Hop On The Defensive After Imus Incident; Sharpton Calls For 'Dialogue' With MCs" (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1557094/20070413/id_0.jhtml)).
"It appears people are more enraged and outraged than even we thought," Sharpton said through a bullhorn to a gathered crowd of hundreds. "How many of y'all are ready to keep building and keep going after record companies?
"We'll deal with them one by one," he continued from atop a New York Police Department flatbed truck at the rally's final destination, at the Time Warner Center in Columbus Circle. "We'll also be dealing with the media companies. HBO is owned by Time Warner. When we finish with the record companies, we will go across the board. We're not asking for censorship. But there is a standard in this business. They have a standard. They had a standard that said Ice-T can't rap against police. They had a standard that said you can't rap against gays, and you shouldn't. They had a standard against Michael Jackson saying something anti-Semitic. Where is the standard against 'n-----,' 'ho' and 'b---h'?"
Sharpton told the group of supporters that he is not on a mission to censor rappers but is urging labels to protect the image of blacks. He cited past instances in which companies have pulled records that were overtly violent toward police or culturally insensitive to other ethnic groups.
The Harlem activist also said members of the black community are taking companies to task over how hip-hop is perceived, which Sharpton called a notable feat in itself.
Rally organizer Tamika Mallory, director of the Decency Initiative for the National Action Network, and Brooklyn City Councilwoman Darlene Mealy joined Sharpton and rap legend Kurtis Blow for the march.
Sharpton, dressed casually and traveling with a police-escorted motorcade, arrived to meet the group shortly after 6 p.m. in front of the Sony Music offices on the corner of 55th Street and Madison Avenue. He walked arm in arm with fellow demonstrators as they also stopped by the Warner Music Group headquarters in Rockefeller Plaza and the Universal Music Group building on 8th Avenue and 50th Street.
Chants of "Stop the dirty lyrics" and "Decency now" echoed throughout the march.
The rally came 12 years after a similar outreach was initiated by Time Warner music executives to develop standards for offensive lyrics. At that time, however, Sharpton met with the executives and defended rappers' rights to use harsh language reflecting their impoverished upbringings.
"What do you expect them to sing, 'Hello, Dolly'?" Sharpton was quoted as telling New York's Daily News in 1995. "I don't want to see Time Warner cave to criticisms from the right." Sharpton warned the company it would have him and other prominent black figures to deal with if it were to bow to pressure asserted by then-Republican Senator Bob Dole and others.
The reverend has changed his tune post-Imus-gate and has since joined Oprah and Russell Simmons in attempting to clamp down on rap music through various means.
"It can't hurt," Kurtis Blow told reporters as he flanked Sharpton. "It can only help."

OmegaNYC
May 8th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Hip-Hop needs some decency. However, I hate the fact that the Rev. only show his face after the Imus incident. Funny thing is, NYC isn't really the center of Hip-Hop anymore. That title goes to cities in the south such as Atlanta, Miami, Houston, or New Orleans.

clubBR
May 8th, 2007, 04:39 PM
New York is where hip hop lives. True hip hop is made in NY. Have you listened to the new Joell Ortiz album? He's bringing NY back

Fabrizio
May 8th, 2007, 05:00 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=eDbkebLz7h8

What a clown.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=1kc4EwD5hoA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepin_Fetchit

clubBR
May 8th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Joell Ortiz is not a clown. He speaks the truth of how minorities live in New York ghettos. He has every right to express himself and to portray his community. He covers both negative and positive aspects of the ghetto. He doesnt do gangsta-rap. He doesnt rap about bitches and hoes and bling and guns and drugs. He does mention those topics but he doesnt promote it nor does he make it seem "cool". Ortiz raps with true hip hop on his mind and talks about life in the ghetto. Its interesting and non-violent. It is the closest thing to true hip hop these days

And no, I am not promoting his album or anything like that. I am just a fan of good music

Fabrizio
May 9th, 2007, 02:50 AM
IMHO: Uninteresting and predictable as "hip-hop" is in general. The sound is old, stale... and can't these guys get a new wardrobe?

Alonzo-ny
May 9th, 2007, 05:07 AM
In my opinion the most repettitive form of music. I used to be heavily into hip hop but when everything new sounded the same my interest in new hip hop ceased.

OmegaNYC
May 9th, 2007, 09:42 AM
^^ What? Boybands, and Rock music doesn't sound the same? It's hard, almost difficult to explain what hip-hop is to someone who hasn't lived, or been associated with the urban American lifestlye. In American society, violence and sex sells. This is why Hip-Hop have almost universally been linked to gangster rap. Which is just a subgenre of rap. I'll be the first to admit, Hip-hop has gone stale over the years, but it is still one of the most influential music genre to date. Not all hip-hop is guns, drugs, women, sex, and gangster elements. You should check out guys like Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, etc. I'm more of a old school hip-hop fan anything from the mid 80's to the early to mid 90's will do for me. However, I just can't stand that people think ALL hip-hop is alike.

OmegaNYC
May 9th, 2007, 09:46 AM
New York is where hip hop lives. True hip hop is made in NY. Have you listened to the new Joell Ortiz album? He's bringing NY back

I haven't checked out Ortiz new album. But I heard this guy rap before. I really like his style, you should check out his freestyle on Sirius Radio. You can find it here. (http://www.sirius.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Sirius/Page&c=FlexContent&cid=1173752926800)

Alonzo-ny
May 9th, 2007, 10:33 AM
i agree, i dont like boybands or indie rock specifically because the market is flooded with that music. But if those music types are flooded then hip hop is a flood noah would be proud of. there are so many artists trying to get on the scene and they are undistinguishable from one another. I heard the story so many times of the rapper who was broke and had a hard life. And i do understand hip hop because i was devoted to it in my teenage years.

I understand what your arguement is because i was once on your side. There is always the 'its just a guy talking over a beat, anyone can do that' arguement many times and had to defend myself against such morons. i just dont like modern hip hop as it is all the same. it used to be the same old ive had a hard life story and then with that pos 50 cent on the scene its now look at my money and cars and rims crap. Yes there are some artist doing something unique out there but for every one of them there are many many more spitting the same crap.

clubBR
May 9th, 2007, 05:16 PM
^^ What? Boybands, and Rock music doesn't sound the same? It's hard, almost difficult to explain what hip-hop is to someone who hasn't lived, or been associated with the urban American lifestlye. In American society, violence and sex sells. This is why Hip-Hop have almost universally been linked to gangster rap. Which is just a subgenre of rap. I'll be the first to admit, Hip-hop has gone stale over the years, but it is still one of the most influential music genre to date. Not all hip-hop is guns, drugs, women, sex, and gangster elements. You should check out guys like Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def, etc. I'm more of a old school hip-hop fan anything from the mid 80's to the early to mid 90's will do for me. However, I just can't stand that people think ALL hip-hop is alike.

I too am a fan of old school hip hop.
Nas- Illmatic
A Tribe Called Quest- Midnight Marauders
Maxwell- Urban Hang Suite
Fugees- The Score
Are some of the albums in my car right now. Like Nas stated, hip hop is dead. and honestly, I think the South killed it.
First there was NY. It was all gravy. Then the west introduced g-funk & gangsta rap. That kind of brought hip hop down as a whole. Then the midwest came up with Kanye and Lupe. Hip Hop stocks creeped up. Finally, the south came in with their snap crackle pop songs ft. Lil Jon. But America bought into their catchy commercial marketing and pushed NY out of the rap scene. But with NY beefing with eachother non-stop, we helped push ourselves out of the rap game.

On the Joell Ortiz album- I definitely think Ortiz should hook up with DJ Premier. It'll be an instant head bobbing classic. But he's currently signed with Dr. Dre. But its all gravy because Dre brings a different style to the table.

OmegaNYC
May 9th, 2007, 08:12 PM
^^^ Ah, Snap Music.. If you ask me, 2006 was the year of Snap with songs like "Oh, I think dey like me" or "Betcha, can't do it like me" and the big hit, "Lean wit it". Love it or hate it, Atlanta is now the epicenter of Hip-Hop. From 2002, Crunk has dominated the clubs. Now comes the snap music. To me, NYC lost the battle of hip-hop back in the early 2000's I think Ludacris put Atlanta on the map hard when he released that Back for the First Time ablum. If you go back a few years since then, Cash Money back in 1998 just took rap music by storm. I think New Orleans lost it when Cash Money broke up. Right now, I gotta give it to Atlanta.

clubBR
July 21st, 2007, 01:04 AM
^^^ Ah, Snap Music.. If you ask me, 2006 was the year of Snap with songs like "Oh, I think dey like me" or "Betcha, can't do it like me" and the big hit, "Lean wit it". Love it or hate it, Atlanta is now the epicenter of Hip-Hop. From 2002, Crunk has dominated the clubs. Now comes the snap music. To me, NYC lost the battle of hip-hop back in the early 2000's I think Ludacris put Atlanta on the map hard when he released that Back for the First Time ablum. If you go back a few years since then, Cash Money back in 1998 just took rap music by storm. I think New Orleans lost it when Cash Money broke up. Right now, I gotta give it to Atlanta.

Right now, I think things are on an even keel.
NY/NJ has a strong foothold on a big chunk of hip hop these days

OmegaNYC
July 23rd, 2007, 11:33 AM
^^^ yeah if you like G-Unit, (corny) DipSet, (corny) Diddy, (corny), . The only NYC rappers I can say is really good is Joell Ortiz and Uncle Murda. That's it.

OmegaNYC
July 23rd, 2007, 11:42 AM
Not again. ~_~


"Uh Oh.”

That's the name of a new song by rappers Ja Rule and Lil Wayne. It also may have been what the two were thinking on Sunday night when police arrested the top-selling hip-hop artists on charges of carrying illegal .40-caliber guns.

Ja Rule, 31, of Saddle Brook, N.J., and Lil Wayne, 25, of Miami, were each arrested and charged with criminal possession
of a weapon, police said. Ja Rule's real name is Jeff Atkins; Lil Wayne's is Dwayne Carter.

They were arrested shortly after Carter's concert at the Beacon Theatre in Manhattan. It was not immediately clear whether Atkins had also performed.

Officers spotted Carter and another man smoking marijuana by a tour bus near 61st Street and Columbus Avenue at about 11:30 p.m., police said. The officers took the two men into custody, finding the pistol. Both were charged with criminal possession of a weapon and marijuana.

Atkins was arrested about an hour earlier on West End Avenue. Police said he was in a luxury sedan that was going too fast.

Officers stopped the car and arrested the occupants — Atkins, the driver and another man — and found the weapon, police
said.

Contact information for the rappers' managers could not be found early Monday, and there was no immediate response to messages left with their record company, Universal Motown. It also was not immediately clear whether they had attorneys.

Ja Rule rose to fame in the mid-1990s after appearing on a hit song with Jay-Z and later going on to record platinum-selling solo albums.

Lil Wayne's albums include "Tha Block Is Hot," "Lights Out," "Tha Carter" and "Tha Carter II."


News wire services

clubBR
July 23rd, 2007, 07:03 PM
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/21/nyregion/21citywide.600.jpg
Clive Campbell, known as D.J. Kool Herc, at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue in the west Bronx. He wants the apartment building to be declared a landmark for its role in hip-hop culture. “This is where it came from,” he said.

By DAVID GONZALEZ (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/g/david_gonzalez/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: May 21, 2007

Hip-hop was born in the west Bronx. Not the South Bronx, not Harlem and most definitely not Queens. Just ask anybody at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue — an otherwise unremarkable high-rise just north of the Cross Bronx and hard along the Major Deegan.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/21/nyregion/21citywide_1.190.jpg Tyler Hicks/The New York Times
The community room, where Kool Herc presided over turntables at parties in the 1970s, has been closed for renovations since last year. Across the city, owners of buildings like the one at 1520 Sedgwick are leaving subsidy programs.



“This is where it came from,” said Clive Campbell, pointing to the building’s first-floor community room. “This is it. The culture started here and went around the world. But this is where it came from. Not anyplace else.”
O.K., Mr. Campbell is not just anybody — he is the alpha D.J. of hip-hop. As D.J. Kool Herc, he presided over the turntables at parties in that community room in 1973 that spilled into nearby parks before turning into a global assault. Playing snippets of the choicest beats from James Brown (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/james_brown/index.html?inline=nyt-per), Jimmy Castor, Babe Ruth and anything else that piqued his considerable musical curiosity, he provided the soundtrack savored by loose-limbed b-boys (a term he takes credit for creating, too).
Mr. Campbell thinks the building should be declared a landmark in recognition of its role in American popular culture. Its residents agree, but for more practical reasons. They want to have the building placed on the National Register of Historic Places so that it might be protected from any change that would affect its character — in this case, a building for poor and working-class families.
Throughout the city, housing advocates said, buildings like 1520 Sedgwick are becoming harder to find as owners opt out of subsidy programs so they can eventually charge higher rents on the open market.
The Sedgwick building is part of the state’s Mitchell-Lama program, in which private landlords who receive tax breaks and subsidized mortgages agree to limit their return on equity and rent to people who meet modest income limits. The contracts allow owners to leave the program and prepay their mortgage loan after 20 years. Rent regulations can protect tenants from increases, but not always.
While Mitchell-Lama buildings in parts of Manhattan, like the Lower East Side, were among the first to leave the program, housing experts say that the trend has spread far beyond, from the Rockaways to the west Bronx.
Tom Waters, a housing policy analyst at the Community Service Society of New York, said there are about 40,000 Mitchell-Lama units in the city, down from 66,000 in 1990. The rate of buildings leaving the program has accelerated since 2001, he said, as landlords find they can do better on the open market.
Labor groups and housing advocates have called for safeguards on moderate-income housing, which they said was essential for the city’s economic health. While the groups have lauded Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/michael_r_bloomberg/index.html?inline=nyt-per) for his commitment to building such housing, they said the State Legislature should address policies that affect the city’s housing market.
“There is no single solution,” said Ed Ott, executive director of the New York City Central Labor Council. “Preservation of currently affordable housing is something we need to look at. Working people are going to have no place to go.”
In February, tenants of the Sedgwick Avenue building, which has 100 units, were told that the owners planned to leave the Mitchell-Lama program. The building’s owners did not respond to several requests for comment for this article.
Steven Spinola, president of the Real Estate Board of New York (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/real_estate_board_of_new_york/index.html?inline=nyt-org), said landlords were entitled by contract to opt out after a set period. He said that if there were concerns about keeping the buildings in the program, the government should consider better incentives.
“Contracts should still mean something,” Mr. Spinola said. “Affordable housing is clearly a problem in the city. I do not believe the social concerns for citizens of the city of New York should fall on the backs of one particular owner when it is a citywide problem.”
The problem has been widespread enough to keep Dina Levy of the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board looking for new strategies to slow it down. The group, a nonprofit housing advocacy organization, is advising the Sedgwick tenants.
“The market is so out of control in every corner of every borough,” said Ms. Levy, director of organizing and policy for the group. “We have run out of land, so anywhere in the boroughs can be the next hot real estate market. That’s why we’re scrambling to find preservation opportunities to keep them affordable.”
That usually involves seeing if there are mortgage requirements or land covenants that mandate the property be used for moderate-income housing, she said. But when tenants of 1520 Sedgwick came to her group in February, organizers stumbled on an interesting fact when they searched for the address online.

Matysiak
November 16th, 2007, 05:16 PM
NYC will be always on the first place if it`s going about hip hop,beacuse the best hip hop albums,artists,movies,crews and just hip hop are from here.I like traveling and I was in a lot of cities but only in new york city I was feeling hip hop everywhere and everytime.New York is a hip hop.Even if now new york it`s bringing not too much good albums,everything what he gave in the past to compensate this situation.
Old albums of:
A tribe called quest,EPMD,Big Daddy Kane,Biz Markie,Black Sheep,Eric B. and Rakim,BDP,Slick Rick,Black Moon,Gangstarr,Brand Nubian,De La Soul,WU,Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth,Smif-N-Wessun,Public Enemy,Main Source,LL Cool J,Ultramagnetic Mc`s and later Kool Keith,Run DMC,Jungle Brothers,Gravediggaz,Onyx,Mobb Deep,Nice & Smooth,Heavy-D,Nas,Das EFX,Jay-z,Biggie,Da Youngstas,Kool G Rap,Whodini,Das EfX,Naughty By Nature,Redman,Queen Latifah,Fat Boys,Mc Lyte,Diamond D and whole D.I.T.C,Organized Konfusion,Busta Rhymes,Beastie Boys,Fu-Schnickens,Group Home,Jeru,Heltah Skeltah,Lordz of the underground,M.O.P,Talib Kweli,Mos Def,Lil Kim, and much more.Find me other place in the world which gave so much good hip hop albums,singles and artists.

And what about movies?

- Style Wars,
- Beat Street,
- Wild Style,
- Krush Groove,
- Juice,
-Clockers,
-Strapped.

But now it`s also not so bad.
Definitive jux artists,Nas-Hip Hop is dead,Joel Ortiz-The Brick or even Prodigy - Return of the mac.

MidtownGuy
November 16th, 2007, 08:33 PM
Definitive jux artists,
YES, Mr. Lif from that label is one of my favorites. His lyrics and timing are genious.

Mohamed
November 17th, 2007, 02:08 PM
Hip-Hop sometimes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6odzCYFOOQ


or,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1if9kLJpWw


or,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImlcPnzLAuc


not about love at all !

GQ_Homme
November 19th, 2007, 08:18 AM
Hip Hop, even as a culture within itself, transcends time, and New York to hip hop is what blood is to the human body. Hands down the New York scene has always provided nourishment to hip hop, and anybody can argue that mainstream hip hop has been infiltrated with trash (a lot of it due to commericalization) but at the same time, taking a look back at its roots and looking at real hip hop music and the artists like Run DMC, EPMD (Erick Sermon), De La Soul, ATCQ, etc or even more recently Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Nas, etc, it is not hard to realize that great hip hop is still alive in large part thanks to new york... ya digg :cool:

Fabrizio
November 19th, 2007, 10:02 AM
Hip hop: The same beat, fashions, movements... general presentation ....for years now, repeated over and over and over again. One note. Tired.

By now a parody of it's self.

Most of the performers going through the motions and beat look like comedy acts.

Frozen in time is quite different than being timeless.

pzarker
November 19th, 2007, 07:18 PM
What does everyone think of Jay-Z's new album? I think he came back VERY hard with it, I can't stop playing it.

also, Fabrizio, you continue to say the same thing over and over about hip hop, and we appreciate your opinion, but we got it the first time you said it. No one here is criticizing your choice in musical interests, we all have our different opinions on music based on our life experiences, your comments are most definitely not going to change our opinion on the matter.

A person's decision to be interested in a specific form of music is a personal matter in my opinion, and it's borderline rude to continue to bash that choice.

ZippyTheChimp
November 19th, 2007, 07:29 PM
You're here less than 24 hours, and already short on patience?

Not looking forward to when you become truly exasperated.

pzarker
November 19th, 2007, 08:30 PM
I'v been reading the site for a long time, finally decided to register today. But regardless it shouldn't matter how long I'm here, just read his last 3 or 4 posts on this thread. You wouldn't like it very much either if someone trashed your favorite music like that continually.

ZippyTheChimp
November 19th, 2007, 10:11 PM
Yeah, what a sadistic and cruel sonofabitch.

pzarker
November 19th, 2007, 10:24 PM
mmm ok, I'm not sure why your trying to start something here, but its pretty obvious that what I said was true. I'm not really hurt by him saying that and I don't think its cruel or sadistic, but I do think its foolish to say the same thing three or four times on the same thread when its obvious that no one is taking his comments seriously.

ZippyTheChimp
November 19th, 2007, 10:40 PM
I'm not really hurt by him saying thatThen there's no reason to act like you are.


You wouldn't like it very much either if someone trashed your favorite music like that continually.Not really high on my list of life's annoyances.

Fabrizio
November 20th, 2007, 08:33 AM
Ok... it was 3 baiting posts....

(so I guess you do have the right to flame my a$$.)

---

Now, please: educate this old(er) guy.

I'm bothered by the fact that my father hated the stuff I loved as a kid....and now look at me.

Post us some examples of hip-hop that represents this moment in time. Let me see what I make of it.


---

GQ_Homme
November 20th, 2007, 09:10 AM
A few bad apples does not spoil the rest and trying to paint a whole genre of music with the same paintbrush isn't fair. Fabrizio since you asked, here's an example (more mainstream--something that could be heard on the radio):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f7hQmuIHA8

and in particular this verse:

Good Morning, this ain't Vietnam still
People lose hands, legs, arms for real
Little was known of Sierra Leone
And how it connect to the diamonds we own
When I speak of Diamonds in this song
I ain't talkin bout the ones that be glown
I'm talkin bout Rocafella, my home, my chain
These ain't conflict diamonds,is they Jacob? don't lie to me mayne
See, a part of me sayin' keep shinin',
How? when I know of the blood diamonds
Though it's thousands of miles away
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here, its a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets, the charmses
I thought my Jesus Piece was so harmless
'til I seen a picture of a shorty armless
And here's the conflict
It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice
How could somethin' so wrong make me feel so right, right?
'fore I beat myself up like Ike
You could still throw ya Rocafella diamond tonight, 'cause

-------

Lyrical content that is IMO well written and poetic (methaphors and all) along with being relevant to today's world

Ninjahedge
November 20th, 2007, 09:36 AM
I just find that the lack of vocals is what kills it for me.

The rhythms and beat are usually right on track for the guys that look to put their own stuff together, but the rest are just being lazy and tracking to "Urban Prose".

Some (of the lyrics) talk about life's troubles, but unfortunately most talk about getting a woman, parts of a woman, or how they will lay the smack down on people that do not ride with them.

Some of the things I HAVE liked are when a rap-like lyric has actually been put to a melodic line rather than a droll monotonic chant. I am not in the monastery, I would like to hear some vocalization! Although Soul Coughing does not exactly represent the heart of Rap (he is more Techno/rap) I like the stuff he does where he starts singing rather than droning. It makes a big difference.


Some of these guys can hear this stuff, and have some great lyrics and prose, but they are not pushing past the standard formula for Rap/Hip-Hop that has been dragging around since the 80's. It is like a sales presentation that uses the default Power-Point background and settings. The information may be new, pertinent and incredibly informative, but everyone has seen that mode of conveyance so many times that they are bored before the intro page is off the screen! ;)

Fabrizio
November 20th, 2007, 10:16 AM
I listened to the video. Shirley Bassey does not need improvement.

IMHO, the new lyric, written in dialect, is colorful and maybe once or twice charming, but butchered English after a while is a bore.


Listen to the brilliance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfYwIFIbCN0

Diamonds are forever,
They are all I need to please me,
They can stimulate and tease me,
They won't leave in the night,
I've no fear that they might desert me.
Diamonds are forever,
Hold one up and then caress it,
Touch it, stroke it and undress it,
I can see every part,
Nothing hides in the heart to hurt me.

I don't need love,
For what good will love do me?
Diamonds never lie to me,
For when love's gone,
They'll luster on.

Diamonds are forever,
Sparkling round my little finger.
Unlike men, the diamonds linger;
Men are mere mortals who
Are not worth going to your grave for.

I don't need love,
For what good will love do me?
Diamonds never lie to me,
For when love's gone,
They'll luster on.

Diamonds are forever, forever, forever.
Diamonds are forever, forever, forever.
Forever and ever.

MidtownGuy
November 20th, 2007, 10:58 AM
^more vapid than the hip hop lyrics that I listen to, by a long shot.

I never listen to the radio crap, but the underground stuff is the real deal. Some of the comments on here suggest an experience with hip hop that doesn't go beyond Top 40 like 50 Cent(YUCK). I wouldn't say that is hop hop, it's rap and yes there is a huge difference.

Also, the point of language is communication. Audience in mind. Even high brow poetry has always employed wild freedoms with grammar, spelling, punctuation, etc. to escape the tight parameters of "proper" prose.
That people call such poetry "inspired" and hip hop simply"butchery of English" seems totally one-sided and reeks of hypocritical, misguided elitism.

Talk about tired. Shirley Bassey?? Yikes. The truth is, when I listen to some of the tired and trite old showbiz tunes that are referenced on here by some of the older members, I can't help but think that the adjective "tired" is highly subjective.

pzarker
November 20th, 2007, 11:18 AM
well said, especially in distinguishing the difference between hip hop and rap. There are so many things wrong with 50 cent that I really don't know where to start, I don't even acknowledge his presence in the hip hop "world."

If you want to hear some truly musical hip hop, try out hi-tek, a producer/rapper from NY who is probably one of the most under appreciated beat makers in the game. He has a new album dropping soon.

Another great option to check out is Refections Eternal, a work of art imo. These are some true examples of New York hip hop in its prime.

Fabrizio
November 20th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Midtown: Funny how that trite Shirley Bassey/John Barry tune is so tired that 40 years (!) later a big helping of it used in the song that GQ_homme posted.

Go figure.

Instead, it will be interesting to see the longevity of lyrics like:

"It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice"

I contend that most of these guys are on par with novelty acts and in 40 years time will be about as interesting to listen to as the Chipmunks or Annette Funicello.

---

--
Re: Dame Shirley:

Funny too that Marks&Spencer this year used the 70 yr old Shirley Bassy in a multi-million dollar ad campaign aimed at selling what?

The latest fashions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIUHYmpoORY


BTW I'm no S. Bassey "fan" but I sure do appreciate the art involved.



---

GQ_Homme
November 20th, 2007, 04:18 PM
Would hardly call what Kanye used, a big helping...Fabrizio, it looks like your mind is already set so no need to beat a dead horse

Fabrizio
November 20th, 2007, 04:40 PM
What?

Yes, indeed, "a big helping".

Shirley Bassey's voice can be heard through the ENTIRE piece. I am wrong about that?

Futhermore, the Bassey song sets the tone and is heard virtually untouched for around the first 30 secs. of about 3.50.

Anyway, IMHO it's good that he does use her: at least it gives the piece a touch of art and a certain coolness.

Next time, I might suggest to him Eydie Gorme or Vikki Carr.

-----------------------------------

The Arctic Monkeys singing a familiar (though tired and trite) old showbiz tune....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lck6jLQfRA




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MidtownGuy
November 20th, 2007, 07:39 PM
Instead, it will be interesting to see the longevity of lyrics like:

"It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice"

I know, it's crap.
Honestly, that isn't the type of song I can tolerate either. It also isn't representative of the good stuff. You can't fairly pick the worst example
of something and use it smear the whole genre.

Schadenfrau
November 21st, 2007, 12:47 AM
Sorry, I'm still laughing that the likes of Soul Coughing merited a mention on this thread.

Ninjahedge
November 21st, 2007, 12:58 PM
Mention.

I never said his lyrics were anything near stellar.

My point being that I, for one, like it when an artist does more than chant when they call their piece "music".

Something that is significantly less than even mentionable when chanted can raise the bar when they put a bit more into it.

Fabrizio
November 21st, 2007, 01:02 PM
Before dismissing those old showbiz tunes....

It is fascinating to me how so many broadway standards have stood the test of time and can adapt themselves to changing times and styles.

A song like "Blue Moon" written by Richard Rogers in 1934, a seemingly dopey little ballad, yet it is eventually covered by everyone:

Read this curriculum (Recordings after 1934) :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Moon_%28song%29

Or how Rogers syrupy sweet "My Favorite Things" can go from this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF34PbVRBLU&feature=related

To being one of the greatest jazz melodies ever written:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_n-gRS_wdI&feature=related

It's called good bones.


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kz1000ps
November 21st, 2007, 11:25 PM
We all know that NYC hip hop begins and ends with Mase, so let's end this conversation right here.

Harlem World!!

pzarker
November 23rd, 2007, 11:45 AM
nah but it doesnt. You got the Harlem world part right though.

Killa k... Duke... Santana


dipset.

tipzy20
November 23rd, 2007, 04:54 PM
Spam removed

lofter1
November 24th, 2007, 10:03 AM
SPAM ^ served up with left over turkey?

Ninjahedge
November 26th, 2007, 04:09 PM
With a name like "tipzy20" its GOTTA be good! :p

Encideyamind
December 3rd, 2007, 02:47 AM
Midtown: Funny how that trite Shirley Bassey/John Barry tune is so tired that 40 years (!) later a big helping of it used in the song that GQ_homme posted.

Go figure.

Instead, it will be interesting to see the longevity of lyrics like:

"It's in a black person's soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life tryna get that ice
On a polo rugby it look so nice"

I contend that most of these guys are on par with novelty acts and in 40 years time will be about as interesting to listen to as the Chipmunks or Annette Funicello.
---

I'm not going to comment on the quality of music because everyone's opinion will of course vary, however, I believe those lines are poignant for the simple fact of the message the artist is trying to convey.

He is indicating the complex struggle that rages within those of that sect. As far as it being resources from "our home" and how our affinity for it is in direct contrast to us maintaining a positive connection with the peoples of our past. It's a struggle that has been fought for years to reach a certain stature in order to be able to afford to wear these sort of ornaments even though murderous wars ravage the lands of their origin. It's a conflict that he finds difficult to come to terms with. He seems to be aware of the situation but can not seperate himself from what he sees as a long time valid aspiration.

As for the original, I think it's just being used as an instrument would be. Common practice.

TheBRONXKid
January 2nd, 2008, 01:11 AM
Yes hip-hop. The last great cultural movement to come out of new york city. And it started with Afrika Baambaataa not kool herc

GQ_Homme
January 16th, 2008, 10:34 AM
Tenants Might Buy Birthplace of Hip-Hop

By Jennifer 8. Lee (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/jlee/)
NYTimes-City Room



http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/23/nyregion/23rap.190_cityroom.jpg
1520 Sedgwick Avenue, where hip-hop is said to have started.
(Photo: Ozier Muhammad/The New York Times)


Why is a real estate mogul who once flipped San Francisco’s famous Bank of America Center (http://www.realestatejournal.com/propertyreport/office/20050927-haughney.html) to a group of investors that included Donald J. Trump interested in acquiring a working-class apartment building (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/nyregion/21citywide.html) on the outskirts of the Bronx for less than $14 million?

“We think it’s odd that a guy of this stature is buying a 100-unit building on the access road of the Major Deegan that will be rent stabilized even if it comes out of Mitchell-Lama,” said Dina Levy, director of organizing and policy with the Urban Homesteading Assistance Board (http://www.uhab.org/). “It’s literally like saying Donald Trump wants to buy a 100-unit rent-stabilized building that sits in the middle of nowhere. It’s crazy. It’s alarming. What does it mean exactly, we don’t know. But it can’t be good.”


Thus, the tenant groups, with support from United States Senator Charles E. Schumer, announced this morning that they were in talks to intervene in the proposed sale and buy the building themselves, with subsidies from the city.
The talks are continuing and the agreement might not materialize, but if successful, the negotiations would be a breakthrough in a long-running discussion over the apartment building, where experts say hip-hop was born in 1973. (A couple of readers in the comments dispute this claim, but we’re with Ricky D (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/tenants-might-buy-the-birthplace-of-hip-hop/#comment-152360) on this one.)

The building, at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue, would be just another one of the flurry of Mitchell-Lama buildings that have changed hands over the past few years, were it not for its community room. It was there, in 1973, that Clive Campbell, known as D.J. Kool Herc, started turning the tables at community parties, producing a sound, a rhythm and a style that spilled out into the nearby parks and streets and, later, to the world. Mr. Campbell was living in the building at the time with his sister, Cindy Campbell.

The building has 100 units rent for an average of $1,000 a month under the state’s Mitchell-Lama affordable housing program, in which private landlords receive tax breaks and subsidized mortgages and, in turn, agree to limit their return on equity and rent to people who meet modest income limits. The landlords are allowed to leave their contracts after 20 years, and the rate of those choosing to do so has accelerated since 2001. Last February, tenants were told that the owners planned to leave the program.

Often, the same buyers keep popping up for the Mitchell-Lama buildings. So Ms. Levy, whose nonprofit group supports tenant control of limited-equity housing cooperatives, was a bit surprised to see a new name, Mark Karasick, as a proposed buyer of 1520 Sedgwick.

“Clearly he is not going to make money from owning and operating this project,” Ms. Levy said.
She suspects that they may be picking up the building to resell it quickly. “Either to speculators that don’t know enough, but don’t know they don’t know enough or unscrupulous speculators,” she said. “Or there is a third possibility. The dollar is weak. We are thinking about foreign investors coming in.”

No matter what, she said, it is not good for the tenants — who have set up a Web site, Save1520.org (http://save1520.org/), to publicize their situation.
In July, the tenants got a boost when state officials indicated that the building was eligible to be listed on the federal and state registers of historic places (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/an-effort-to-honor-the-birthplace-of-hip-hop/), even though it is not at least 50 years old — the normal threshold for such a designation.

In December, the owners of the building, who operate under a partnership called 1520 Sedgwick Associates, and Mr. Karasick offered to step out of the deal and let residents buy the project.

The last several days have featured negotiations involving the tenant group, the owners and even Mr. Karasick himself, according to Ms. Levy. But the asking price to unravel the deal is $14 million — which is the housing advocates say is way beyond the $5 million or $6 million they have calculated based on the future rent stream. And the tenants group says it is even prepared to pay above the market rate, since the group may be receiving subsidies from the city’s Department of Housing Preservation and Development and Housing Development Corporation.

Mr. Karasick’s lawyer, Steven Holm, did not respond to phone and e-mail messages requesting comment. For his part, Mr. Karasick has said his interest in the building has nothing to do with the building’s status as the birthplace of hip-hop (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/nyregion/21citywide.html?), and tenant groups have been suspicious of his motives.
Mr. Schumer, a Democrat who was elected in 1998, is not particularly known as a fan of hip-hop, but the New York senator has taken on the project as a cause.

“In an increasingly turbulent housing market, 1520 Sedgwick is in danger of losing its affordable status, as its owner prepares to sell the building to wealthy speculators whose only hope of profiting on the building hinges on hiking the rent rolls,” Mr. Schumer said in a statement. “That is why it is essential that the owner negotiate a reasonable, affordable deal with the tenants and their representatives to preserve affordability in this special place for the long haul.”

Ms. Levy said she feared that Mitchell-Lama projects were increasingly seen for their investment potential and not for their original purpose — as affordable housing. “They are perceived as ‘undervalued assets,’” she said. “That is the term they are using in meetings with us. To us, it’s undervalued because it affordable. So your whole premise of buying it is to make it as unaffordable as possible.”

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/07/23/nyregion/23flier.span_cityroom.jpg
A flier promoting a performance by D.J. Kool Herc at 1520 Sedgwick Avenue on Aug. 11, 1973.