50 West Street by Helmut Jahn

[alonzo-ny]

Great, I look forward to this project rising. LM is going to look crazy in a year or two with all the high rise construction.

[DarrylStrawberry]

There will be somewhere around 15-20 tower cranes over LM at the same time in about a year...wow.

[Skylimitone]

Gone...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3221/2417475956_beb4dbdf0d_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/2416655967_3e7e245b87_b.jpg

[londonlawyer]

In true NY fashion, decent buildings were razed, and yet, this piece of trash, which is a market rental that could be emptied easily, remains!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3221/2417475956_beb4dbdf0d_b.jpg

[lofter1]

That ^ is one fugly pile ... made worse by its prominent location along West Street.

[macreator]

So, is the project totally approved? I thought that there were still some loose ends regarding air rights that needed to be figured out...

[RandySavage]

It is infuriating how beautiful historic buildings continue to be knocked down while empty lots, parking garages and pieces of trash like that ^^^ remain.

[Skylimitone]

I'm worried about this project, why aren't they digging the hole, immediately.

[BrooklynLove]

they're still trying to secure financing. i think i read something recently about that in the realdeal.

[Skylimitone]

:(

[Stroika]

when i see this or the newsweek mutilation or macklowe's slow-motion destruction of the townhouses alongside the already-murdered drake, i wonder what sort of a planning authority the city can/ should have, what it could do better, and whether it would result in excessive regulation/bureaucracy or if it would be possible to streamline the process and improve the existing, often-tragic/hilarious juxtapositions of the above incidents with denials of permits for breathtaking skyscrapers on EMPTY LOTS in midtown...

[BrooklynLove]

this is the article - http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_258/developers.html

upon reading this again, it seems that i was making an assumption re financing holding things up. regardless, the article is clear that the deal is not yet closed and currently stuck.

[lofter1]

Sounds ^ like it ...

Neither side will reveal what the sticking point has been in the past five months of negotiations.

“They claim it’s just lawyers setting up a complicated close,” said David Feiner, Gerson’s director of youth and education.
Janel Paterson, E.D.C. spokesperson, said she could not comment on ongoing negotiations.

The E.D.C. has told Gerson several times that the closing is just weeks away, only to extend the timeline still further, Feiner said.

Lawyers ... arrggghhh :mad:

[LeCom]

The now-gone 47 West Street

View from West Street

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6434/pict027047westtothene60gz3.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4795/pict026047westlookingupdw0.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2338/pict0265av1.jpg

The sliver of space between the building and the garage

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6375/pict0278wj2.jpg

Battery Park City garage, directly to the south

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1387/pict0273xr6.jpg

Facade at the base facing the garage

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4264/pict027647westbasesouthfb3.jpg

The cornice on the east side...

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6024/pict0303lh6.jpg

...and the base

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/762/pict0279mp0.jpg

A gargoyle

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7998/pict0280ge9.jpg

The past gives way to the future rising behind

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8505/pict030747westgargoyletgc2.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8771/pict030547westgargoyledbb0.jpg

The mansard roof as seen from the garage

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/1575/pict031547westrooftothelg2.jpg

A good example that shows that not everything that's old is a masterpiece. This building is built in a refined style, yet the details are crude and it did not age well at all. This is to Beaux-Arts masterpieces is the same as shoddy office buildings are to the Seagram Building. Besides, the replacement is definitely worth the demolition.

[londonlawyer]

I respectfully disagree. These buildings had beautiful details (shown above) and simply needed to be restored.

This brown pile of junk from the 1970's should have been razed.

[BPC]

I respectfully disagree. These buildings had beautiful details (shown above) and simply needed to be restored.

This brown pile of junk from the 1970's should have been razed.

Ditto and ditto.

[kz1000ps]

Every building built back then had "beautiful details", therefore every building built back then should be saved? I don't think so. This one was far from a masterpiece.

But what was up with that mansard roof? Such odd proportions, and not in a charming way... it was just odd.

[londonlawyer]

Every building built back then had "beautiful details", therefore every building built back then should be saved? I don't think so. This one was far from a masterpiece.

But what was up with that mansard roof? Such odd proportions, and not in a charming way... it was just odd.

Sure. Why not save them? There's plenty of crap that could be razed for new development like this brown piece of junk which is a market rental and therefore could be emptied within 2 years maximum.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6434/pict027047westtothene60gz3.jpg

[kz1000ps]

I agree there's other stuff that should've come down before this one, but at the same time I didn't find it preservation worthy. It was just a matter of when, not if, it was going to go.

Hopefully in the next market cycle or two someone will come along and pump some money into the brown turd next door. It's probably too big to expect it to be coming down within our lifetimes, so I'm hoping they convert it to condos and put up a new facade. Otherwise, Jahn's new beaut is going to make it look that much worse.

[antinimby]

I think that's the position I'm going to take, too. We must look at the overall net loss/gain of each project.

Yes, it's a shame to lose something this old with good details on it but we will be gaining a very nice Helmut Jahn so in the end it's not all bad.

If say, we were to lose this to a O'Hara or Kaufman piece of crapola, then yes it would be unforgivable but we're not so let's not get too worked up over it.

By the way, it would be nice if they reuse those figures (although I doubt they would). A lot of the new crapolas going up today could use the elegant touches these would bring them.


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6024/pict0303lh6.jpg

[Stroika]

Here's the latest on 50 West St. (courtesy of LowerManhattan.info) The brown atrocity next to it looks to have been tarted up, if it's in the photo at all:

50 West Street « back (http://www.lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/)
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/images/construction/project_updates/062507_50_west_320.jpg Work on one of several new high rises south of the World Trade Center (http://www.lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/#wtc) is underway at 50 West Street. Located between West and Washington Streets at J.P. Ward Street (just north of the Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel entrance), the new development will replace three existing buildings on that block with a new 63-story (725-foot) residential tower and hotel.
The 500,000-square-foot, glass-clad tower is being designed by Murphy/Jahn Architects. The tower will house retail at ground level and bring a landscaped plaza to its south side.
Developer Time Equities has worked with the Environmental Protection Agency (http://www.lowermanhattan.info/construction/global/contact/#us) (EPA) and other agencies for the abatement and demolition plan, which mobilized in February 2007. Construction will begin in fall 2007 and continue for 32 months, through June 2010.



Daily Activities

*The following information was last updated on May 8, 2008.


Awaiting SDOT/DOB permits to start foundation work (expected mid-May)
Awaiting letter from Con Edison for switch gear (expected late-April)
Will begin pile driving the first week of May 15 to June 1, between 7AM and 5PM and will continue approximately two weeks.


Contact Info

Please call Time Equities at (212) 206-6000 or visit www.timeequities.com (http://www.timeequities.com/).

[Cat235D]

And i will be starting to dig this foundation this coming monday:D:D

[lofter1]

Welcome aboard, Cat235D ...

Hope you can bring us regular updates ( with photos :cool: ) as the dig progresses.

Work Safe!

[Cat235D]

You can count on it! safety will be a priority there after todays tragedy, I knew Donald Leo.

[lofter1]

So sorry to hear that. No doubt many here at WNY have Mr. Leo's family and friends in their prayers this evening.

[infoshare]

Word has it that they (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232279&postcount=272) will be breaking ground on this project some time soon.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9224/img0014du5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9224/img0014du5.02686c97f0.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=401&i=img0014du5.jpg)

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/6100/img0009sd6.th.jpg (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0009sd6.jpg)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9224/img0014du5.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0014du5.jpg)

[Cat235D]

Come and take some pictures on monday, i will have a small excavator with a hammer attached to break up the remaining sidewalk and then i will be digging testholes for the caisson test later in the week.

[Scraperfannyc]

Looking good. Minor loss for a very good gain here.

Off topic, I'm crossing my fingers that these crains do not destroy public support for future developments.

[NYC4Life]

Is there a specific date for ground breaking?

[Cat235D]

This Monday i will be breaking ground :D

[antinimby]

According to those pics, it looks like they're now on level ground but wouldn't the previous building have support columns poking out from underneath and wouldn't it also have an underground(foundation) level or two?

[Stroika]

Looking good. Minor loss for a very good gain here.

Maybe, but we shouldn't get too complacent. Don't forget that things would've turned out infinitely better if the disgusting brown mess next door -- a rental building -- had been bought up instead of the fairly pleasant building that was destroyed.

[BrooklynLove]

start saving and maybe you'll be able to buy it and knock it down someday ...

[londonlawyer]

Maybe, but we shouldn't get too complacent. Don't forget that things would've turned out infinitely better if the disgusting brown mess next door -- a rental building -- had been bought up instead of the fairly pleasant building that was destroyed.

I concur.

[pianoman11686]

90 Washington is a substantial building that was recently renovated. It's going to be around for a while.

[Cat235D]

What do the apts rent for at 90 wash

[pianoman11686]

I believe they're all lofts. I recently saw one for about $3100/month that had around 800 square feet.

[Derek2k3]

From Time Equities' website:

50 West Street
http://www.timeequities.com/dev-50west.cfm

http://www.timeequities.com/images/developments/50West1.jpg

When it is complete, 50 West Street will be a 65-story mixed-use tower and one of the tallest mixed-use hotel and residential buildings in New York and a skyline defining landmark. Consisting of a 5 star luxury hotel on floors 1-14 and residential condominiums on floors 15-63, the building will offer a variety of ground floor retail to enhance street level activity and neighborhood interaction. The proposed project will boast unparalleled views of the Statue of Liberty and New York Harbor due to its unique location and height.

50 West Street will include an important public urban plaza connecting West and Washington Streets in Lower Manhattan. The plaza will provide a much needed pedestrian thoroughfare to enhance the connection of lower Manhattan to Battery Park City.

The building will be a modern glass tower designed by internationally renowned architect Helmut Jahn. Interiors will be designed by Piero Lissoni and feature a sophisticated modernist design with a warm color palette, the use of high-end woods and stone finishes and European designed furnishings.

Continuing with Time Equities’ commitment to sustainable design, the building anticipates receiving a LEED Gold rating, the nations premiere benchmark for the design, construction and operation of high performance green buildings.


http://www.timeequities.com/images/developments/50west2.jpg

http://www.timeequities.com/images/developments/50West3.jpg

[kz1000ps]

What is going on with that crown?

And I hope that isn't black glass we'll be getting on the main shaft of the tower.

[antinimby]

It looks an erect penis and 90 Washington is the scrotum.

[BrooklynLove]

time needs a beekman tower like growth simulation for this buiding ...

[Stern]

The glass will make or break this building. That said the form is perfect, Im glad to see Jahn is getting back to postmodernism, this postmodernism is much better than his earlier works, it has an art deco flair but not only is he using modern materials but a modern groundwork. I love the slanted base; it has elegance and a fluid form which lacks in the flair at the top of his 425 Lexington Avenue. The glass facade thanks to the form also has subtleties despite using the same glass throughout. The crown looks great, I love the use of clear glass and the giant window cutting into the mass below, it’s a true crown, a dome, and not another flat-roof. The subtle intricacies of form and a giant window at the top, this building has a lot in common with 1 Wall Street. I have to say with this and Beekman and possibly 99 Church that construction in Lower Manhattan is as exciting today as it was in the late 1920’s with 70 Pine Street, 40 Wall Street, and 1 Wall Street. Then you throw in the World Trade Center and the level of quality new construction becomes mind boggling.

[BrooklynRider]

Lower Manhattan does seem to be the setting for the construction of "trophy buildings" throughout NYC development history.

[ablarc]

Will the top be full of machines or will it be occupiable space?

[infoshare]

Will the top be full of machines or .....

I can't say what will be going on at the top just yet: but here's what is going on (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=232494&postcount=280) at the bottom. :rolleyes:

URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8541/img0003tq5.jpg[/URL]
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8541/img0003tq5.75cb059b96.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=258&i=img0003tq5.jpg)

[Cat235D]

Wow what a great looking operator.....oh wait thats ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[antinimby]

Cat, do you know where they normally take the dirt that are excavated from construction sites in the city?

[NYC4Life]

Would that be the only excavator woking on the site right now? :rolleyes:

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9224/img0014du5.jpg

[Cat235D]

Most of the dirt from NYC goes to various transfer stations in NJ to be sorted out because its mostly demolition, wood bricks and if the site had a underground oil tank the fill around most likely is contaminated. This will be the only excavator on site for now supporting the caisson driller in case he hits obstructions while drilling.

[infoshare]

What a great week for WiredNY: two exciting new members, CarterBH (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=233458&postcount=125), and cat235D - whoo hoo!

[BrooklynLove]

Wow what a great looking operator.....oh wait thats ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

awesome

[lofter1]

Cat235D: How deep will you be digging here?

As you probably know, the site of 50 West is all landfill, as the western shore of Manhattan Island ran roughly along Greenwich Street and everything west of that was in the Hudson (or, as it was also called, the North) River.

The portion of a 1775 Map (http://www.sunysb.edu/libmap/Montre.htm) attached below left (based on cartography (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1150726) by Engineer John Montresor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Montresor) and Bernard Ratzer (http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital/dgkeysearchdetail.cfm?trg=1&strucID=253433&imageID=434801&word=434801%20&s=1&notword=&d=&c=&f=&lWord=&lField=&sScope=&sLevel=&sLabel=&total=1&num=0&imgs=12&pNum=&pos=1#)) shows the general site of 50 West at that time.

The second map at center shows the shoreline in 1789, with the approximate location of 50 West.

The third map at right is based on the Mangin Goerck (http://www.georgeglazer.com/maps/newyorkmaps/goercknyc.html) City Plan of 1803, and shows the shoreline filled in and pushed west to where West Street is today, and includes the addition of Washington Street between Greenwich & West and shows the location of 50 West just south of the intersection of Rector & West Streets.

***

[Cat235D]

We will be going down about 25 ft from the curb line, most of the debris we will be excavating was due to the demo contractor not removing all of the building and just filling in the basement with it:mad:

[brianac]

Lofter does this WALL (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=231192&postcount=3926) come into play?

[lofter1]

I'm not certain how the piers were constucted along the original Manhattan shoreline -- or what
was constructed at the river's edge when the shoreline was extended back @ 1800.

It seems that the "wall" (aka the Hudson River Bulkhead, built in the late 1800's) is on the west side
of West Street opposite 50 West (indicated by the red line on the map at lower left below) ...

***

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/05/25/nyregion/25HUDSON.GR.jpg

[alonzo-ny]

Isnt that timber bracing going to be mulch by now?

[lofter1]

If the timbers stayed dry and away from oxygen (admittedly not a sure thing, by any means) then wouldn't they remain viable?

:confused:

[NYC4Life]

From: The Real Deal

http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/50-west-street-set-to-break-ground


Updated On 06/13/08 at 03:08PM


50 West Street set to break ground



http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/images/39226/50west_articlebox.jpg (http://ny.therealdeal.com/assets/39226) 50 West Street


By Jovana Rizzo

Time Equities' 50 West Street (http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/63-story-hotel-condo-tower-coming-to-west-st) is set to break ground on June 23.

The $600 million hotel and residential building designed by Helmut Jahn will occupy 580,000 square feet and will reach 66 stories.

The tower will also provide a passageway for pedestrians, linking the southern part of Battery Park City to Wall Street and Rector Street's retail corridor. Completion of the building is expected in 2010.

"The groundbreaking is important because this building had a lot of public involvement to create the urban plaza to connect Battery Park City with the core of the Financial District," said Phillip Gesue, director of acquisitions and development for Time Equities.

[ablarc]

At least it's not fat.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Lofter does this WALL (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=231192&postcount=3926) come into play?No. The bulkhead runs along the west side of West St, buried under BPC.

Isnt that timber bracing going to be mulch by now?The main source of timber rotting is the marine-borer. It was a big problem in the 19th century, and the reason the wooden hulls of ships below the waterline were lined with copper.

The problem disappeared because pollution during the 20th century decreased their numbers, but now, because the Hudson is cleaner than it's been since the 19th century, the marine borers have returned.

In the late 90s, BPCA took proactive measures, and lined the wood sheeting with concrete.

Termites of the Sea (http://www.americanpoleandtimber.com/pdf/marine_borers_biodeterioration.pdf)

[lofter1]

From CURBED (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/27/check_out_fidis_shiny_new_helmut.php#more) ...

Check Out FiDi's Shiny New Helmut

June 27, 2008
by Joey

http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_6_helmut1.jpg

Earlier this week, developer Time Equities broke ground on architect Helmut Jahn's
65-story hotel/condo tower at 50 West Street. And to celebrate said occasion,
the company issued a new rendering of the $600 million tower, which is expected
to be completed in 2011. It replaces the tiny one (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/01/29/all_lower_manhattan_hotel_secrets_revealed.php) we've been using all this time,
and it is very very large. Here's what the site looked like (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/03/11/destructoporn_jahn_lowers_the_helmet.php) not to long ago...

http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_6_helmut2.jpg

The 580,000-sqaure-foot tower will have 280 condos and 155 hotel rooms,
as well as some retail. It's shooting for LEED Gold certification, with a green roof,
sustainable construction materials, energy efficient glass façade, etc.

· Destructoporn: Jahn Lowers the Helmet (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/03/11/destructoporn_jahn_lowers_the_helmet.php) [Curbed]
· All Lower Manhattan Hotel Secrets Revealed! (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/01/29/all_lower_manhattan_hotel_secrets_revealed.php) [Curbed]

50 west

[lofter1]

YES!

That disgusting brown striped stack of boxex to the north is totally eclipsed and will be in a never-ending shadow :D

[asg]

From CURBED (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/27/check_out_fidis_shiny_new_helmut.php#more) ...
http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_6_helmut2.jpg
50 west


The Visionaire is missing from that rendering.

[NYC4Life]

Nice tower with two very ugly neighbors :(

[pianoman11686]

Gorgeous!

[lofter1]

The Visionaire is across the street.

[asg]

The Visionaire is across the street.
Yes it is, but it has been removed from the rendering or, more likely, the photo used for the rendering was taken before the Visionaire was built.


To the right is the Millenium Tower
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/2615698561_20b155bc5a_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2251169583_d8b23b84ff_b.jpg

[alonzo-ny]

What would the point in showing a rendering where the featured building is blocked by another, rival building.

[asg]

The rendering without the Visionaire in it gives one the impression that apartments on the first to thirty-fifth floors will have great views and light, when in reality they will be looking at the Visionaire across the street. Even Lofter was confused by the rendering.

[alonzo-ny]

So what? Thats what the developers want.

[Cat235D]

I will post pictures this weekend, we are only digging out the first 8 ft then drilling 150 24 inch caissons.

[BrooklynLove]

Excellent. Thanks for the update.

[lofter1]

Scraping the surface ...

*

[Cat235D]

About 2 months of this and then we will start digging and pouring pile caps. Work is being slowed because the owner only has financing for the foundation and not the superstructer.:(

[lofter1]

Uh - oh ^

We might be surrounded by concrete holes for the next few years ...

[Skylimitone]

No surprise here, remember what I said in other threads. Just wanna cry.:(

[antinimby]

Meanwhile nearby, the ugly McSam on Washington goes up with no financing problems whatsoever. :mad:

Life just ain't fair.

[Cat235D]

are you referring to 123 washington? if so, he is having huge money issues too he is also doing the tower on 42nd and 11th and we just pulled off that job too because he hasnt paid us in 4 months on the foundation and its only 1/4 done:mad::mad:

[Skylimitone]

No, I think he's referring to 111 Washington, but thanks for the bad news. At least we'll have a lot of swimming pools the next couple of summers.:(

[BrooklynLove]

We'll work through all of this - stay positive. At the end of the day, everyone involved wants to find a way to get these buildings done.

[Cat235D]

Lets hope so, last year this time we had over 700 people, right now we are down to less then 75:(

[lofter1]

... he is also doing the tower on 42nd and 11th and we just pulled off that job too because he hasnt paid us in 4 months on the foundation and its only 1/4 done ...


Is that the Atelier II project (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=237439&postcount=125)?

[Cat235D]

Yes that is it.

[lofter1]

Thanks ...

Any other "under construction" jobs that your company was involved with that are now stopped due to dried-up finances?

[Cat235D]

Just these 2 at the moment, We also did the NY law School slurry wall and below grade slabs, that job is 99% complete

[kitten]

123 washington st. is the W hotel & construction is still going on every day; the mc sam hotel project is @ 99 washington on the corner of washington & rector, and there is a stop work order (presumably because of foundation damage to 103/moran's bar); and 111 washington is where the parking lot is on the corner of carlysle st.- not sure what's up here. there are alot of rumors of lost financing and also rumors that they are ready to move ahead and the whole block is coming down except moran's...

[Cat235D]

Ask Century maxim concrete how behind he is at getting paid. The job is moving a snails pace at best, they very well could be the next highrise concrete company that is going belly up. We bid 111 washington and at the time it was a very complex foundation going under Morans to the next corner and the superstructer going up and over Morans:eek: I am now glad we were not low bidder there;)

[kitten]

glad you weren't low bidder because you wouldn't want to be on a delayed job? so what's up w/ 111 now? and moran's is supposedly for sale now...

[lofter1]

Like I wrote earlier: Yesterday there was a guy leaning on his truck in front of the 99 Washington / McSam site and he said the Stop Work Order there is resolved; DOB says the same:
Overview for Complaint (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OverviewForComplaintServlet?requestid=2&vlcompdetlkey=0001066138) #:1232977 = RESOLVED
Partial Permit for New Building (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=5&passjobnumber=104592175&passdocnumber=01) for 99 Washington was issued 9.22.08:

Arch: Guess who :confused: (Kaufman)
35 stories / 309 feet

[antinimby]

I guess we all kinda had the feeling this one had hit a bit of a financing snag but anyway, here it is officially in print...

50 West delay


Oct. 17 - 23, 2008

Another casualty of the free-falling economy is 50 West St., the condo tower Time Equities hopes to build in Greenwich St. South.

Francis Greenburger, C.E.O. of Time Equities, told Crain’s New York Business last month that the firm is slowing work on 50 West’s foundation, because he doesn’t have a construction loan to build the 65-story tower.

“Our main bank group told us they can’t do it now,” Greenburger told Crain’s. “They advised us to come back to them in the spring.”

UnderCover called Greenburger’s spokesperson for more information, but she would not confirm anything and would not give a new completion date for the tower. The building was supposed to rise above ground next summer and open in 2011.

The luxury tower was not one of the community board’s favorite projects, but that doesn’t mean board members are happy to see it stalled.

“The last thing this community needs is another uncompleted project…or another hole in the ground,” said Catherine McVay Hughes of Community Board 1. “Hopefully the financing will come through and what was promised can be realized.”

http://downtownexpress.com/inside_dt_logo.gif

© 2008 Community Media, LLC

[BrooklynLove]

Here's your plan:
go to one of the banks getting $$ from the Fed and if the bank won't lend on fair terms expose them in the press

[BPC]

Maybe the banks are finally using the prudence they should have used all along. If you had $100 million of your own, would you choose to loan it to some yahoo trying to build 65 stories of luxury condos over the BBT entrance? If you wouldn't want to loan YOUR money for this kind of project, then don't fault the banks for not wanting to loan out your deposits for the very same purpose.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Here's your plan:
go to one of the banks getting $$ from the Fed and if the bank won't lend on fair terms expose them in the pressAnd the bank tells the press that because of the state of the economy, they don't think the project will sell at a level to retire the construction loan.

Mention that it's luxury housing, and you've won over the readers.

[BrooklynLove]

Not nearly compelling enough to dispell the simple notion of govt money going to banks and the banks then hording that cash so that they can continue posting capital against continuing losses and buy out smaller rivals, instead of writing off entirely (offloading) the bleeding assets and getting back to lending.

Here's an analogy - joe shmo gets stimulus check; instead of using said check to buy clothes, food, pay off credit card debt, etc.; joe uses said check to buy ganja in order to take the edge off the financial stress he is feeling.

[ZippyTheChimp]

And which argument do you think will resonate more with the public as a result of your plan to expose them in the press?

And our analogy is absurd. Maybe instead of those other uses, Joe decides to put the money away toward his children's education.

[BrooklynLove]

The public is already screaming about banks hording govt cash instead of lending it. Spare me the condescending italics.

My analogy is meant to illustrate the problem of a recipient's unproductive use of govt money meant for redistribution in furtherance of the public's betterment. Your reponse entirely misses the point.

[ZippyTheChimp]

The public is already screaming about banks hording govt cash instead of lending it.Screaming about lending it to whom?

Your analogy is trash because it equates two reasonable alternatives a bank can make (which can be intelligently debated), with a choice between Joe spending the money on beneficial things and blowing it away on dope.

It's further flawed by your making the bank's choice between lending the money to 50 West and sitting on it, rather than finding something it may consider less risky.

Any veteran here knows that I understand the Economy and Finance, but what we're talking about is Public Relations.

My analogy is meant to illustrate the problem of a recipient's unproductive use of govt money meant for redistribution in furtherance of the public's betterment.Your error is assuming that the public, in its present mood, is going to read your plan (sorry, but you keep forgetting that we're talking about newspapers) the way you do.

They're going to read it as a bank being forced to lend funds provided by taxpayers to a project for luxury housing that's what, a few blocks from Wall St, the other villain in the story.

I'll go up in smoke. Just ask Joe.

[asg]

October 27, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
The Widening Gyre

By PAUL KRUGMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/paulkrugman/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Economic data rarely inspire poetic thoughts. But as I was contemplating the latest set of numbers, I realized that I had William Butler Yeats running through my head: “Turning and turning in the widening gyre / The falcon cannot hear the falconer; / Things fall apart; the center cannot hold.”
The widening gyre, in this case, would be the feedback loops (so much for poetry) causing the financial crisis to spin ever further out of control. The hapless falconer would, I guess, be Henry Paulson, the Treasury secretary.
And the gyre continues to widen in new and scary ways. Even as Mr. Paulson and his counterparts in other countries moved to rescue the banks, fresh disasters mounted on other fronts.
Some of these disasters were more or less anticipated. Economists have wondered for some time why hedge funds weren’t suffering more amid the financial carnage. They need wonder no longer: investors are pulling their money out of these funds, forcing fund managers to raise cash with fire sales of stocks and other assets.
The really shocking thing, however, is the way the crisis is spreading to emerging markets — countries like Russia, Korea and Brazil.
These countries were at the core of the last global financial crisis, in the late 1990s (which seemed like a big deal at the time, but was a day at the beach compared with what we’re going through now). They responded to that experience by building up huge war chests of dollars and euros, which were supposed to protect them in the event of any future emergency. And not long ago everyone was talking about “decoupling,” the supposed ability of emerging market economies to keep growing even if the United States fell into recession. “Decoupling is no myth,” The Economist assured its readers back in March. “Indeed, it may yet save the world economy.”
That was then. Now the emerging markets are in big trouble. In fact, says Stephen Jen, the chief currency economist at Morgan Stanley, the “hard landing” in emerging markets may become the “second epicenter” of the global crisis. (U.S. financial markets were the first.)
What happened? In the 1990s, emerging market governments were vulnerable because they had made a habit of borrowing abroad; when the inflow of dollars dried up, they were pushed to the brink. Since then they have been careful to borrow mainly in domestic markets, while building up lots of dollar reserves. But all their caution was undone by the private sector’s obliviousness to risk.
In Russia, for example, banks and corporations rushed to borrow abroad, because dollar interest rates were lower than ruble rates. So while the Russian government was accumulating an impressive hoard of foreign exchange, Russian corporations and banks were running up equally impressive foreign debts. Now their credit lines have been cut off, and they’re in desperate straits.
Needless to say, the existing troubles in the banking system, plus the new troubles at hedge funds and in emerging markets, are all mutually reinforcing. Bad news begets bad news, and the circle of pain just keeps getting wider.
Meanwhile, U.S. policy makers are still balking when it comes to doing what’s necessary to contain the crisis.
It was good news when Mr. Paulson finally agreed to funnel capital into the banking system in return for partial ownership. But last week Joe Nocera of The Times pointed out a key weakness in the U.S. Treasury’s bank rescue plan: it contains no safeguards against the possibility that banks will simply sit on the money. “Unlike the British government, which is mandating lending requirements in return for capital injections, our government seems afraid to do anything except plead.” And sure enough, the banks seem to be hoarding the cash.
There’s also bizarre stuff going on with regard to the mortgage market. I thought that the whole point of the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the lending agencies, was to remove fears about their solvency and thereby lower mortgage rates. But top officials have made a point of denying that Fannie and Freddie debt is backed by the “full faith and credit” of the U.S. government — and as a result, markets are still treating the agencies’ debt as a risky asset, driving mortgage rates up at a time when they should be going down.
What’s happening, I suspect, is that the Bush administration’s anti-government ideology still stands in the way of effective action. Events have forced Mr. Paulson into a partial nationalization of the financial system — but he refuses to use the power that comes with ownership.
Whatever the reasons for the continuing weakness of policy, the situation is manifestly not coming under control. Things continue to fall apart.

[BrooklynLove]

Any veteran here knows that I understand the Economy and Finance, but what we're talking about is Public Relations.

That's great but you don't know what you're talking about in regards to this topic.

[ZippyTheChimp]

And which "this topic" are you talking about?

This is the only topic I'm talking about:Here's your plan:
go to one of the banks getting $$ from the Fed and if the bank won't lend on fair terms expose them in the pressIf you think I'm talking about anything else, then you're confused.

[NYGRIL]

Meanwhile, back at 50 West, having spent a couple weeks drilling caissons (hope springs eternal) so the site can't be turned into a parking lot, they're pulling out again "until spring". Right.

[Skylimitone]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but here's a nice rendering from the structural engineer's website:

http://www.de-simone.com/english/images/projects/residential/High-Rise/50west02.gif

Of course The Visionaire is missing, but the WTC is in the background.

[Cat235D]

The caisson contractor is pulling off job this week due to not being paid. The site will probably be backfilled back to street grade and turned into another parking lot until at least the spring .:confused:

[tone99loc]

Ahh, this blows, this was a nice looking project...At least 8 Spruce St. is rising...

[lofter1]

The site will probably be backfilled back to street grade and turned into another parking lot until at least the spring.

The Bloomberg legacy?

[BrooklynLove]

No, the Paulson legacy.

[Stern]

I agree. Bloomberg had nothing to do with banks and financial companies giving bad loans and going under and as a result financing drying up.

[lofter1]

Aha! The MBA legacy.

[TREPYE]

Too bad they couldnt run out of funds before they demolished this...
http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_214/developer.gif

All so that it could be turned into a parking lot.:rolleyes:

In the realm of legitimate professions is there as more vile, nefarious one than being a bad developer? Like a stampede or a swarm of locust they just destroy everything in its path and leaving behind only excrements and footprints amidst barren ruins.

[Stern]

In the developers defense they demolished the existing building before the subprime crisis when financing was readily available and had every intention of building their building. The building they were going to build was gorgeous and designed by an A-List architect. I'm sure the last thing they wanted to do was to demolish the existing building and not have enough funds to build the new one, without building the new building the entire endeavor will be a huge loss for them.

[TREPYE]

I know that they didn't want this to happen, but before they spent all that $$ demolishing they should have had the financing in place. Their lack of planning cost us an old charming relic and a new nice looking scraper when we could have has either. Thats what makes em bad developers hence vile, nefarious, etc.

[Cat235D]

This looks like its going to be a long battle to get the money they owe us for the work already performed:mad::mad:

[Stern]

I know that they didn't want this to happen, but before they spent all that $$ demolishing they should have had the financing in place. Their lack of planning cost us an old charming relic and a new nice looking scraper when we could have has either. Thats what makes em bad developers hence vile, nefarious, etc.

They did. Their financing pulled out following the subprime crisis.

[Shadly]

In the developers defense they demolished the existing building before the subprime crisis when financing was readily available and had every intention of building their building.

They also demolished the building before they had financing secured for the project. If all that money wasn't available, why didn't they secure the funds first?

They deserve to take a loss for this one, everyone that walks by that parking lot for the next ten years already has.

[DKNY617]

I was looking forward to this one too. :mad:

[Hamilton]

The Bloomberg legacy?

Asinine.

[NYC4Life]

In New York, anyone is readily available to demolish any building they can buy.

[lofter1]

Unless it is in a protected Landmark District (although folks do figure out how to get around that as well).

[scumonkey]

Wednesday, December 3, 2008, by Joey
http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_12_50west.jpg
Spirits were high down in Lower Manhattan back in June,
when developer Time Equities held a big press conference/ground breaking
to formally announce (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/27/check_out_fidis_shiny_new_helmut.php) its $600 million, 65-story glassy hotel/condo tower at 50 West Street,
designed by famed architect Helmut Jahn (seen above in various design stages).
But the Manhattan hotel market is crumbling and construction financing has dried up,
and that's a bad mix for 50 West Street.
The Real Deal (http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/50-west-street-completion-date-delayed) reports that the tower "could be delayed until 2012,"
which is one year behind schedule.
Foundation work has been under way, but the developer claims they may not get a
construction loan until "third-quarter 2009."
Reports of "slowing work" first surfaced in a Crain's story last month and was followed up by a Downtown Express (http://downtownexpress.com/de_285/undercover.html) item.
The gang at Wired New York (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13821&page=24) has also been chattering about the situation at 50 West Street,
while mourning the loss of the "copper top" building that was demolished (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13821&page=24) for the skyscraper
and predicting that the site will be filled in and turned into a parking lot for the time being.
· 50 West Street completion date delayed (http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/50-west-street-completion-date-delayed) [Real Deal]
· 50 West delay (http://downtownexpress.com/de_285/undercover.html) [Downtown Express]
· Check Out FiDi's Shiny New Helmut (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/06/27/check_out_fidis_shiny_new_helmut.php) [Curbed]

[STEAMWORKSNYC]

2012? Why don't they just put that land up for sale.:mad:

[ZippyTheChimp]

2012 is the new projected completion date, not construction startup. The tower was to be completed in 2011.

[JSsocal]

2012 ain't so bad, let's just hope this doesn't get held for longer. (Which it probably will):rolleyes:

[STEAMWORKSNYC]

Thanx for clearing that up, that sounds better..

[futurecity]

This tower is nothing special; neither was the faux-french style building it replaced. I hope neither is built and somethin better comes along.

[NYC4Life]

One year is not terrible at all. All that is needed is funding for the above grade structure.

[Cat235D]

We are doing the foundation and we have demobilized from the site, I dont see foundation work resuming for at least 1 year.

[lofter1]

Did the developer make good on payments?

And any word on what's up with the now-stopped construction at Atelier 2 (42nd / Eleventh)?

[Cat235D]

No, he still owes us money, 42nd is stopped for the same reason $$ We laid off over 300 people in the last 4 months.

[lofter1]

Thanks ^

I'm curious: At 50 West ould that be the developer (Time Equities) or a sub-contractor who didn't pay up?

And similarly, over at 42nd / Eleventh (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7801): Would the non-payer be the Moinian development gang or a sub-contractor there?

Spreading the pain around: Yesterday there were guys with signs working the sidewalk across from the BCRE Hotel site (on Grand Street at the edge of SoHo) making news about failure to pay (as was reported on CURBED (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/12/03/curbedwire_contractors_unhappy_with_moondance_hote l_developer_one_beacon_court_gets_lit_up.php)):

CurbedWire: Contractors Unhappy with Moondance Hotel Developer

http://curbed.com/uploads/2008_12_BCRE%20Does%20Not%20Pay.jpg

SOHO—Residents aren't necessarily the only ones unhappy about the Moondance Hotel (http://curbed.com/archives/2008/09/26/first_look_at_sohos_moondance_hotel_fortress_of_pl azatude.php)
that Brack Capital Real Estate plans to toss up on Thompson Street. There are
apparently some contractors peeved at the company for allegedly not paying bills.
The tipster who snapped the pic writes: "I see you've written about the hotel being built
on Thompson St, between Grand and Canal (the site of the former Moondance Diner).
Apparently there are some very unhappy contractors. Here's a pic I took about 15 minutes
ago on Thompson. There also seems to be a BCRE building on the SE corner of Grand
and Thompson, which has been languishing in a near-finished state for months. You have
to wonder if these guys lost their financing - I've heard that another major hotel developer has."
Fascinating. We can see the tears welling up in the eyes of people living in the area.
[CurbedWire Inbox]

[Cat235D]

The Construction managers on both sites is HRH, and we have a good track record with them. Time Equities is the owner who is refusing to pay us, and moinian at 42nd st, moinian still owes us money for the foundation at 123 washington st as well.....:mad::mad:

[lofter1]

Thanks for the update.

[Stern]

The Construction managers on both sites is HRH, and we have a good track record with them. Time Equities is the owner who is refusing to pay us, and moinian at 42nd st, moinian still owes us money for the foundation at 123 washington st as well.....:mad::mad:

Ever hear of a mechanics lien?

[lofter1]

Speak of the devil ...

Mechanic's liens on developments surge in New York City (http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/mechanic-s-liens-on-developments-surge-in-new-york-city)

The Real Deal
12.04.08

The credit crunch that has made it harder for developers to pay contractors has led to a near-doubling of the number of mechanic's liens filed in New York City ... increased from an average of 394 per month in 2006 to an average of about 769 over the past three months for construction projects in the five boroughs ...

Mechanic's liens are filed by contractors to publicly establish their claim of payment if they have not been paid or have not been paid in full. The action, filed with the county clerk's offices, records the claim on the property. A lien makes it more difficult to sell real estate ...

Most mortgages contain a provision that liens must be removed within 30 or 60 days or the lender can consider the loan in default, real estate attorneys said.

"The lien generally enables you, as the creditor, to put pressure on the developer" ...

[Cat235D]

Been there..........Done that...........:rolleyes:

[lofter1]

In those situations it's most likely the lawyers who come out best in the end :mad: