Reasons people leave New York

[dennisonNYC]

This is going to sound odd, but I'm curious to hear New Yorkers answer this one: What reasons have friends/relatives had for hating the city or choosing to move away? I mean, besides job relocation, family obligations, etc.

It's easy for young people like me to only think of the wonderful things NYC has to offer. What is the "con" side of living in the city? Not trying to be negative, just trying to thorough.

Thanks to all who respond!

[clubBR]

I'd say the lack of peace and quiet.

[MikeW]

The cost, especially for housing, and it's correllary, the lack of space. The cost of everything else. The fact that things are easy, available, and cheap anywhere else, are a difficult, and expensive here.

The intensity of the place. If you live in NYC, it's really hard to get away from the noise and the crowds without locking your self in you likely too small apartment (if then).

The issues with raising kids in the city. The mostly substandard schools. The lack of playspace. The threats to their safety (both real and perceived). This is a big one. It's been something of a known cycle that post college singles move here to have fun and build a career, then move out to the 'burbs when they marry and decide to have kids.

[Punzie]

"I moved to California for the beautiful weather and outdoor life. I thought that since I was near San Francisco and Berkeley, I wouldn't miss New York City too much. I was wrong."
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/Rapunzel61/Smileys/Wink/HomingPigeon.gif

[BklynPenny]

Money, money, money. It's very expensive to live in NYC, and especially Manhattan. I know some people who still work in the city, but moved out to PA for cheaper houses and more space.

[Punzie]

I know some people who still work in the city, but moved out to PA for cheaper houses and more space.
Are you sure those are the only reasons?;)

[BklynPenny]

Ha. Well I can't say for sure, but that's the impression I got whenever I talked to him.

[Eugenious]

Ha. Well I can't say for sure, but that's the impression I got whenever I talked to him.

One of the reasons I've seen people move out from NYC is lack of standard of living similar to one that could be found in the suburbs or elsewhere in the US. NYC is very cramped, and unpleasant unless you are wealthy or upper class and can afford to live in a nice building or good neighborhood.

Having people come from other states they always seem to refer to Brooklyn and most of the NYC as a whole as a "toilet" it's dirty and smelly. Which I can understand since it takes years of living here to get passed the dirt, the smell and the rude people. But once you get over that there's a charming atmosphere especially in brownstone Brooklyn and various parks and great architecture (if rundown a bit).

SO I would say yes for a regular American suburban upper -middle class family NYC would be very much a step down unless they like living in tiny rooms and apts and have to deal with rude people and second guess everyone who tells you something that might make them a profit...

Another thing, in NYC people are VERY distant and VERY abrasive. Everyone is locked into their own clique or their own type of group and that's that. Obviously there's contact between all kind of different people but it's mostly result of commerce and not a genuine like of people. :)

God forbid you talk a random person on the train or start up a conversation with a stranger, in NYC you'll most likely get your ear chewed off and a demeaning stare.

Yet such is life.

[ablarc]

lack of standard of living similar to one that could be found in the suburbs or elsewhere in the US.
Another word for “standard of living” is “stuff.” You can’t have as much stuff in New York. (What would you do with a gas grill, anyway?) If you substitute “quality of life” for “standard of living,” New York has few peers.

NYC is very cramped, and unpleasant unless you are wealthy or upper class and can afford to live in a nice building or good neighborhood.
Cramped, yes. Unpleasant? Depends on your outlook.

it takes years of living here to get passed the dirt, the smell and the rude people.
I got past it on day one. Maybe I was overmotivated.

(Btw, New Yorkers are much less rude than they used to be.)

But once you get over that there's a charming atmosphere especially in brownstone Brooklyn and various parks and great architecture (if rundown a bit).
Enough to sustain many for a lifetime.

SO I would say yes for a regular American suburban upper -middle class family NYC would be very much a step down
...if they bring their values with them. (Excess baggage.)

Another thing, in NYC people are VERY distant and VERY abrasive.
Folks tend to mirror the attitude of those they’re dealing with. Are you perhaps distant and abrasive?

there's contact between all kind of different people but it's mostly result of commerce and not a genuine like of people.
Hogwash. I never found this to be true --even back when New Yorkers were rude.
(Living in the South, I’m especially sensitive to this; here the courtesy often masks malice.)

God forbid you talk a random person on the train or start up a conversation with a stranger
Museums, parks and bars are the right places to strike up conversations. I’ve had wonderful and memorable barroom conversations in New York.

[Eugenious]

Another word for “standard of living” is “stuff.” You can’t have as much stuff in New York. (What would you do with a gas grill, anyway?) If you substitute “quality of life” for “standard of living,” New York has few peers.

:p yes you cant have as much stuff, but you also cant have alot of stuff you NEEED like enough SPACE to live.


Cramped, yes. Unpleasant? Depends on your outlook.

Homeless people, feces in the subway on your way to work, crowded streets, pan handlers, disgusting street food that smells like dead pigeon meat, this is not unpleasant to you?


I got past it on day one. Maybe I was overmotivated.

I wonder where you lived...I bet it wasn't in the Bronx or Brooklyn or Queens. and I bet it wasn't in a "diverse" neighborhood.


(Btw, New Yorkers are much less rude than they used to be.)

This is debatable, people are plenty rude now.


Folks tend to mirror the attitude of those they’re dealing with. Are you perhaps distant and abrasive?

Lol, gee thanks pal! I am a very outgoing and optimistic person in real life and have many friends, but I have time and time again been astonished to what lengths people will go to be rude in this city! It's easier to not push someone where you are getting off just by saying excuse me!


Hogwash. I never found this to be true --even back when New Yorkers were rude.
(Living in the South, I’m especially sensitive to this; here the courtesy often masks malice.)

SO there you go, courtesy is suspect now! Better everyone treat every one like they are not civilized people but a bunch of cattle? You must live quite a life if you don't encounter rudeness in NY on a regular basis.


Museums, parks and bars are the right places to strike up conversations. I’ve had wonderful and memorable barroom conversations in New York.

You should be able to strike up a conversation anywhere, but you are right it's easier in those places. People are always on their guard, and especially since 9/11 you get concerned stares from people who look like they are about to have a panic attack.

Everyone has a different experience, but I am sure that majority of people in NY would agree with me that we need a little more civility, kindness, respect (and more trees and flowers to mask the everyday grinding monotony and ugliness) .

[ablarc]

^ You might find this interesting: http://www.pbs.org/speak/seatosea/americanvarieties/newyorkcity/

[Punzie]

Another thing, in NYC people are VERY distant and VERY abrasive. Everyone is locked into their own clique or their own type of group and that's that. Obviously there's contact between all kind of different people but it's mostly result of commerce and not a genuine like of people. :)

God forbid you talk a random person on the train or start up a conversation with a stranger, in NYC you'll most likely get your ear chewed off and a demeaning stare.
I haven't found this to be particularly true. Not in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s... not now.

Eugenius, you and I should get together some time. (I have a car, will drive.) I could pinpoint exactly why people treat you this way. Except for the one minute when I'd politely tell you the reason, you'd find my company most enjoyable. The ball's in your court.

[econ_tim]

ablarc,

don't you live in north carolina? i'd be interested in hearing your answer to the OP.

[ablarc]

^ Chased skirt. Got shipwrecked. Easy living, weak competitors.

[Eugenious]

I haven't found this to be particularly true. Not in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s... not now.

Eugenius, you and I should get together some time. (I have a car, will drive.) I could pinpoint exactly why people treat you this way. Except for the one minute when I'd politely tell you the reason, you'd find my company most enjoyable. The ball's in your court.

:) If I need someone to point out my flaws to me I'll ask my girlfriend, not that I will do anything about it but it never hurts to ask :P

seriously you have GOT to be kidding me everyone on this board thinks New Yorkers are nice?

[ablarc]

:)seriously you have GOT to be kidding me everyone on this board thinks New Yorkers are nice?
You expect them not to be and they'll oblige.

[Eugenious]

You expect them not to be and they'll oblige.

I've lived in NY for 15 years and have found the opposite to be true.

[Punzie]

:) If I need someone to point out my flaws to me I'll ask my girlfriend, not that I will do anything about it but it never hurts to ask :P
Aha! This^ is why New Yorkers are aloof towards you -- you are aloof towards them! If I have it straight, you're not interested in forming a casual Platonic friendship with a middle-aged female New Yorker, (that's me).

Let me sweeten the deal: bring your girlfriend along. I'd like to get to know her and you. And I won't point out any flaws.:)

[Luca]

You expect them not to be and they'll oblige.

Last time i was in NYC, almost everyone I ran into was markedly polite. This included a raffish yet slilish old panhandler (who also had the good taste to compliment my sartorial choices).

I "finally" ran into a "70's-style", rude / obnoxious person (a window clerk in the subway) He was like soemthing out of "mean streets".

The only really unpleasant person was a dope dealer in Washington square whom, had he not been surrounded by assorted compadres, I would happily thumped upside the head.

[kliq6]

More then any issue id say taxes and high cost of living.

[MikeKruger]

right now we live in Jersey in the burbs but my wife works in Manhattan so we plan to move to Hoboken soon.

When I say move away from NYC that in my current perception involves leaving the tristate area as well. The reasons, for me, when we make that decision might/will be kids, lack of a viable career in my field (engineering, not civil), desire to pursue certain hobbies that require lots of open space and money that can't go to rent anymore- flying, possibly boating someday....


I find people easily approachable, or maybe they find me easily approachable.
Just the other day a lady I helped out with her bag on the stairs down the JC PATH came and sat by me and told me her (sad) life story, and a middle aged guy in a bar in the East Village (granted,a little tipsy he was) was being very friendly and interested in where I was from. I don't think he was gay and hitting on me because I saw him chatting up girls as well, plus I was with my wife at the time also.

I would tend to think that if you hang out more midtown and uptown you might run into those cold and unapproachable people I hear about, but we usually go out below 4th street so my perception might lack some perspective to go with it.

[Eugenious]

Aha! This^ is why New Yorkers are aloof towards you -- you are aloof towards them! If I have it straight, you're not interested in forming a casual Platonic friendship with a middle-aged female New Yorker, (that's me).

Let me sweeten the deal: bring your girlfriend along. I'd like to get to know her and you. And I won't point out any flaws.:)

Lol, I didn't know you were female..did I mention I was a dashing 26yo young man 5"11 and 180lbs good look....err....sorry couldnt stop myself :P

[kliq6]

right now we live in Jersey in the burbs but my wife works in Manhattan so we plan to move to Hoboken soon.

When I say move away from NYC that in my current perception involves leaving the tristate area as well. The reasons, for me, when we make that decision might/will be kids, lack of a viable career in my field (engineering, not civil), desire to pursue certain hobbies that require lots of open space and money that can't go to rent anymore- flying, possibly boating someday....


I find people easily approachable, or maybe they find me easily approachable.
Just the other day a lady I helped out with her bag on the stairs down the JC PATH came and sat by me and told me her (sad) life story, and a middle aged guy in a bar in the East Village (granted,a little tipsy he was) was being very friendly and interested in where I was from. I don't think he was gay and hitting on me because I saw him chatting up girls as well, plus I was with my wife at the time also.

I would tend to think that if you hang out more midtown and uptown you might run into those cold and unapproachable people I hear about, but we usually go out below 4th street so my perception might lack some perspective to go with it.

No offense but you should not be having any problem getting a job in engineering. I know 10 firms that are looing for major help right now. Of Course youd have to work in the city, which im not sure youd want to

[Punzie]

Lol, I didn't know you were female..did I mention I was a dashing 26yo young man 5"11 and 180lbs good look....err....sorry couldnt stop myself :P
So you've never browsed Pics of us (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11889)...:rolleyes::D

I've already made my point, I was friendly, the ball's in your court now.:cool:

[Ninjahedge]

Back on topic.

Why do people move out?

Well, it all has to do with what you are looking for and how you fit that mold.

People ahve their own sense on a lot of thnigs, activity, personal space, nature, culture and a bunch of others. NYC has some in spades, but lacks others.

As was mentioned, without the $$, it is very hard to own (or even have) anything here, including space. You will most likely be living on top of, next to, and below people that you may never meet, but probably know better than some of their own family members.

You will not have a quiet place to walk where you can talk to yourself to your hearts content about this, that or the other without people looking at you funny. There is almost no place in the city to be alone that does not feel like something might be wrong.

Schools and kids? Very difficult. A place where your kid can't bike, or skateboard, or play catch without having to walk XX blocks and deal with sunbathers and th elike is difficult to start with, but the sheer number of people and the utter impossibility of knowing everyone that might come in contact with your child in a 1 block radius is another.

The fast paced lifestyle is another thing. GREAT when you want to step out for a drink, or get something to eat, but very hard for other social events where you have to rent space for any group larger than 6 (Unless, as mentioned previously, you are akin to one of the women on Sex in the City and you and all your friends can afford huge places that can seat 10 comfortably in your dining room)....

Its tough. I don't think I could live in the city. Hoboken gives me enough buffer space, but I would still like to have my car closer than a mile from me (family in the burbs) and a place where I can set up a barbeque that would be LEGAL (yard, balcony, NOT roof or, perish the thought, living room).

Brooklyn Heights is another facination of mine, but that would involve ditching or long-distance storage for the car. The areas surrounding the city are so nice.

As for rudeness? It all depends on who you run into. The commuter crowd in Midtown seems a bit disconnected, but I attribute that more to work-day-grind and suburban insulation than outright native aggression.

There are others though, usually the ones that see themselves as cheated and somehow deserving more from life, that treat the city poorly. The ones that will not walk 10 feet, ON THEIR WAY, to put their chewing gum in the trash can (saw one just 20 minutes ago). Ones that will be sitting next to a can in teh subway and will chuck their trash on the platform or tracks. Ones that will not get out of the way, take their packs off, fold their strollers on the cars.

Some are clueless, and some deliberately disobey.

But most I have seen I have been able to start a conversation with, no matter where they are from. From buisnessman to construction worker, homie to yentil, so long as you come from a direction that is respectful of them and who they are, most NYers are VERY nice and like the attension.

The trick is the direction. You don't ask the construction worker where Bananna Republic is... ;)


Us, we will probably move a bit further out when/if the kids come. But we will miss parts of it very much.

[Stern]

The perception (key word) that the suburbs are quieter and safer...

[ASchwarz]

I think New Yorkers are much nicer than Midwesterners. I grew up in Michigan and people are very nosey and fake nice. Here people generally leave you alone unless you don't want to be left alone.

New Yorkers are also generally more helpful. In Michigan people don't know how to interact in public places.

I also don't understand all your complaints about the homeless. Have you been to SF, DC, Chicago or LA? Those cities have a MUCH more visible and annoying homeless population. I don't see any in Brooklyn. I see a few in Manhattan and occasionally on trains.

Sprawling areas don't have visible homeless, but that's because there's nobody on the sidewalks (if there even are sidewalks).

[kliq6]

Agreed, on my travels to chicago, as recently as Memeorial day weekend, I couldnt go two blocks ( seriously) without being approached for money. LA is fool of fakes so if ther nice to you, there acting!!

[MikeKruger]

No offense but you should not be having any problem getting a job in engineering. I know 10 firms that are looing for major help right now. Of Course youd have to work in the city, which im not sure youd want to


I'd love to know about them. Just please keep in mind that my degree is more towards general mechanical than civil engineering, and I do not have any experience with HVAC either.