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Eugenious
July 25th, 2007, 03:07 PM
Grand Theft Auto IV Update - A Day in Liberty City (New York City)


http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/204/reviews/933037_20070725_screen002.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/204/reviews/933037_20070725_screen005.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/204/reviews/933037_20070725_screen006.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/204/reviews/933037_20070725_screen007.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/192/933037_20070712_screen002.jpg

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/178/933036_20070728_screen001.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/178/933036_20070728_screen002.jpg
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2007/143/reviews/933036_20070524_screen002.jpg

Looks pretty authentic to me

Ninjahedge
July 25th, 2007, 04:11 PM
That is pretty frigging sweet!

I certainly hope that teh street models were done as more of a community thing that would eventually allow others to use them for other projects (It would be nnice to have a racing game that was GENUINELY through NYC instead of all these NYC-Like towns).

I don't know if I could sit and play through IV, but the layout looks sweet!

Eugenius
July 25th, 2007, 05:31 PM
Looks really nice, I love the clean streets!

Would anybody be interested in seeing a GTAIV image of Times Square that was made up by guy who never visited there?:D

P.S. Eugenius, is that an accurate rendition of what you look like?
Let's not get the usernames confused, now...

I look nothing like that guy, though.

Ninjahedge
July 25th, 2007, 05:37 PM
Rap, litter is hard to impliment. Too many sprites or individual items to keep track of.

I would rather have a "clean" street than a realistically dirty one that has to clip the long-range views down because of system resource limitations (not being able to see the ESB from the Village).

itsallgoode9
July 26th, 2007, 01:49 PM
Ninjahedge:
I'm saying they'll definitely have litter in the streets by shipping time. It's not an expensive effect to add in at all, considering the engine only renders what you can see on your screen at any given time...even blowing debris isn't too bad. The game i'm working on right now has it in all our city levels and it doesn't make any hit in performace at all. They'd be stupid to not push for it because the little things like litter add a TONNNNN of atmosphere to environments.

Our studio has been throwing around the idea of having one of our future game based in NYC, considering our studio is right here. Seeing what Rockstar did with recreating the city has got me REALLY excited about the prospects!

Can't wait to check out the city in this game!

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2007, 02:11 PM
Ninjahedge:
I'm saying they'll definitely have litter in the streets by shipping time. It's not an expensive effect to add in at all, considering the engine only renders what you can see on your screen at any given time...even blowing debris isn't too bad. The game i'm working on right now has it in all our city levels and it doesn't make any hit in performace at all. They'd be stupid to not push for it because the little things like litter add a TONNNNN of atmosphere to environments.

Our studio has been throwing around the idea of having one of our future game based in NYC, considering our studio is right here. Seeing what Rockstar did with recreating the city has got me REALLY excited about the prospects!

Can't wait to check out the city in this game!

You sure Good?

I would imagine that anything besides non-interactive JPG overlays woudl impose a strain on teh machine.

I am not talking about a few garbage cans or some immobile rubbish, but things that would genuinely blow around any solid object in the game environment. (Also, not the classic "rain" kind of thing).

I would think that each of these things would require additional system resources to do properly and would limit the amount you could put in before compromising the systems ability to render other objects.

Particle physics, you know?

The ultimate would be ones that react to the "wind" in a game. You see a car drive by, and you see the leaves/rubbish get dragged along for a bit.... But that seems to be a bit far off....

I am only going on my experience with other games (FEAR, etc). They seem to try to include reactive elements (soda cans, computer screens) but are not as abundant as street litter would be.....




Would you have to actually render these objects, or would they be simple 3D points with a variable graphic object attached?

itsallgoode9
July 26th, 2007, 02:40 PM
It might not be the same for all engines, but for ours (we use Unreal 3) it's a pretty effective and cheap effect. much of trash seen on the street small flat stuff that can be taken care of with decals that are placed around (cigarette butts, papers etc) . then on top of that you only need to make a handfull of looping particle sprite animations (groups papers circling around, cups rolling around etc).

Just simple things like that are really convincing and really, they'll only be a couple of these animations visible at any given time which is why it is very cheap. Granted, those things don't react to other objects in the environment, but that'll be a ways off before that gets implemented in games regularly...probably not until Physics processors become the norm, i'd say. It would be really cool to have the object interaction though!


Would you have to actually render these objects, or would they be simple 3D points with a variable graphic object attached?
not quite sure what you mean, explain more and i might have an answer for ya.

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2007, 05:14 PM
IOW, COG (center of gravity) of an object, or simply the insertion point for a flat animation, would be located by a point in space.

That point would have a graphic, an animated graphic (simple) depicting a "shnibble" or something moving. The point would move through space, the animated gif/jpg would give it a bit more "life" (A small tumbling peice of paper at a distance might be able to do this kind of thing).


As for the U3 engine, have fun! That is some serious $$ for licensure!!!

And interactive environments? I have seen a bit with Crysis and I am looking forward to that (although dreading dropping another $300 on another card to replace my 7950 GTX....).

Keep me informed, and let me know if you guys need a Beta. There are a (small) bunch of old-school UT fans out there that might also give you a hand if you need one. PM me and I will send you a web addy....

itsallgoode9
July 26th, 2007, 05:29 PM
hey, i PMd you..
main game site -->http://www.frontlinesgame.com/
lots o' screenshots --> http://www.frontlineswar.com/?page=screenshots

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/562/ffowza5.jpg

itsallgoode9
July 26th, 2007, 05:35 PM
yeah, i forgot about Crysis, they do some wizardy with thier engine. I think they sold their soul to the devil!! Actually though, the latest videos from E3 looked like shit compared to what they were first showing. I think they were only DXT9 and not DXT10 which is why they didn't look as good. The shipping version is supposed to be DXT10.

MikeKruger
July 27th, 2007, 04:21 PM
I'd rather have a clean city with lots of people rather than fewer people and garbage flopping around.

I still have no idea how much of NY is modeled in GTA IV....is it just Manhattan or are the outer boros included? Also, is there a lot of generic construction, like the 'autogen' in Microsoft Flight Simulator?

Eugenious
July 27th, 2007, 04:48 PM
I'd rather have a clean city with lots of people rather than fewer people and garbage flopping around.

I still have no idea how much of NY is modeled in GTA IV....is it just Manhattan or are the outer boros included? Also, is there a lot of generic construction, like the 'autogen' in Microsoft Flight Simulator?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_IV


Rockstar has recreated four of the five boroughs in New York City, as well as parts of New Jersey. Broker is the GTA IV equivalent of Brooklyn, Manhattan is now called Algonquin (a play on the fact that 'Manhattan' was also the name of a Native American tribe), Queens is now Dukes, the Bronx is Bohan, and New Jersey is Alderney (after the Channel Island of the same name). The total land area of the map is roughly 3/4 of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas [16], but the new rendition of Liberty City will be more detailed. Additionally, according to the Official PlayStation 2 Magazine UK, "to get from one side of the new and improved Liberty City to the other will take you at least an hour." Rockstar has stated that it's the biggest single city in a GTA game yet, and although smaller than San Andreas, it is comparable to it in terms of scope when "the level of verticality of the city, the number of buildings you can go into, and the level of detail in those buildings" are taken into account.[6] Furthermore, developers are still deciding whether bridges will be used to cordon off certain areas, by way of blocking access to cross them.[4] However, eventually the player will be able to lead Niko Bellic to explore Roosevelt Island and cross the Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Williamsburg bridges.

The GTA IV equivalent of the Statue of Liberty is called the "Statue of Happiness", Times Square is called "Star Junction" and DUMBO (Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass) is known as "BOABO" (Beneath the Offramp of the Algonquin Bridge Overpass).

Another building called "Twitchins", the GTA version of Brooklyn's Domino Sugar Factory, is in the game. Dan Houser has also confirmed that an area resembling Central Park will be in the game.

A Staten Island-esque area will not be featured in the game for the reason that Rockstar believes it would not be fun to play there; Dan Houser also states that that there would not be any "dead spots" or "irrelevant space" within Liberty City such as the wide open deserts in San Andreas.

Pedestrians are much more intelligent, realistic and diverse, using mobile phones, cash machines, eating snacks, drinking soda, reading newspapers, scratching their nose, coughing and interacting with each other through laughter and threatening remarks. Pedestrians and traffic flow will also be different depending on the time of day.

It has been announced that some meetings in the game will take place high in the office buildings of skyscrapers which will subsequently allow Niko to throw people off the buildings. However, Niko won't be able to access all the buildings in the game.