Has Hong Kong Skyline Overtaken NYC's?

[Radiohead]

The Hong Kong skyline never ceases to amaze me. In many skyline rating circles, HK has surpassed NYC. I still prefer the NY skyline because of the classics (ESB, Chrysler etc.) But it looks like HK will be the king of the 21st century.

http://www.pbase.com/liphotos/image/71018829.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/liphotos/image/68525912.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/liphotos/image/72988763.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/liphotos/image/78408786.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q144/aboveday2006/68612264_d1a14ea048_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/464237741_58347ad0fc_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/464237751_9ae552b76d_b.jpg

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3585/374559542b3d29e0d37ouy9.jpg

[cysthead30]

The Hong Kong skyline never ceases to amaze me. In many skyline rating circles, HK has surpassed NYC. I still prefer the NY skyline because of the classics (ESB, Chrysler etc.) But it looks like HK will be the king of the 21st century.

I will say that Hong Kongs skyline is visually more impressive than NYC right now. I think NYC had a slight edge when the Twin Towers were still there though. A lot of people are dismissive of New Yorks skyline right now but I think thats unfair considering the fact that the cities two largest skyscrapers were destroyed. Imagine if Hong Kongs two tallest buildings had been destroyed and the WTC still stood? I think in that scenario NYC would have a far better skyline.

Its an unfortunate time for NYC...and it's frustrating that shortly after the destruction of the WTC other cities all over the world have begun their 'race for the sky.' It is hard for NYC to compete right now because of the void created by 911. However, there are a lot of works in the making that will reclaim NYC's former glory. The Freedom Tower complex and the Hudson Midtown Tower proposals. I think these two projects are crucial in re-capturing New Yorks former glory and more.....time will tell.

Hong Kong looks amazing though!!!

[GVNY]

Why do people quote the entirety of photograph sections? Especially when you're the second poster?

And no, I do not feel Hong Kong's skyline has overtaken New York's (spec. downtown). Hong Kong has intelligently focused wonderful skyscrapers around mundane highrises to create a dramatic effect at night. Plus an extraordinary location, it is stiff competition, but still no dice.

But really though, who cares?

[Zephyr]

I have in-laws from HK, and I just love that city and what it is about, And I have seen it numerous times for three to four weeks each visit. I am constantly struck by how often this skyline seems to change, but the landmarks are there, but seem very modern.

Then there is NYC, I came here to start a career, and found myself in and out over the the last three decades - usually for two months at a time. I once lived here for ten plus years.

My primary occupation concerns skyscrapers, so I am constantly observing them eveywhere I go. There are mediocre and spectacular buildings in both cities - HK has a habit of tearing down its historical buildings to a greater degree than NYC, but NYC can look dated even as it adds newer, more cutting-edge skyscrapers.

You won't catch HK dismissing NYC, but the reverse happens all the time - even when the NYer has never seen HK except for its pictures.

If you want a real city that is generally modern - I'd take HK. The backdrop is stunning as well, the past is there but it is swallowed up in the hustle and bustle of the city. If you are looking for the classic skyscrapers of the past eras, combined with work from some of the great new architects, and modern overall is not as necessary - I'd take NYC.

So in my world there is a choice as far as skylines go. One does not win hands down over the other, and it is appropriate to compare them because of the density of skyline, and the fact that there are several skylines within each city as well as the money-shots that we are all familiar with for both.

[kliq6]

New York, STILL the Greatest City in the World!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RandySavage]

They are both easily the world's #1 and #2 skylines.

Because of it's historic & stylistic diversity, New York will probably always be number 1. Even post Twin Towers it is still a magnificent thing to behold. For a short time (2009-2011), Hong Kong may claim the number one spot as the IFC and ICC will create an incredible Colossus of Rhodes affect on the already dramatic harbor. However, by 2012, when the Downtown's skyline is rebuilt, New York will reclaim the number one spot and should hold it indefinitely. Viewing the New York skyline is like experiencing a giant museum of 20th and 21st century architectural history. Hong Kong doesn't have that.

[alonzo-ny]

No skyscraper can beat this one no matter how tall it may be.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1094/1132678545_6a905f54e7_o.jpg

[kliq6]

Well Said!

[Eugenius]

I think it has to do with materials. All skyscrapers currently under construction or even planned use a combination of steel/concrete skeleton and glass curtain wall. Therefore, no skyscraper, no matter how tall, can surpass or even match the solidity and presence of the Empire State Building.

Perhaps some day in the future, skyscrapers will once again feature massive masonry and limestone facades. Only then could Manhattan's preeminence be challenged.

[alonzo-ny]

and the way the sunlight hits those mullions at sunset......

[Zephyr]

As I previously noted, there are many skylines for both cities. This isolated convention Centre is yet part of another skyline view of HK ...


http://www.biokjallarinn.com/top_view_day3.jpghttp://my.tdctrade.com/photolib/hk/0300010L.jpg


Its name is Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre (HKCEC). HKCEC consists of a hotel skyscraper and a convention hall with a spectacular series of roofs, and all are overlooking the ever-busy Victoria Harbour.

This type of thing goes on along the Harbourfront all the time: namely, one spectacular project after another are built to the water's edge. The hotel, in this instance, was placed on reclaimed land (for those who are familiar with the roadways - off Gloucester) in 1988; phase two saw the creation of an artificial island in order to build the convention hall, with that entire project completed by 1997. (I am told that there is talk about further expansion of the complex in future - but where would that be?) BTW, the glass-cladding on the hotel set a record at the time it was assembled. It was the largest area covered with glass in the world. To-day, this hotel is well down a revised list of glass-cladded buildings - which does not detract one iota from its impressive glimmer in the natural light of the day.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1304/616410665_f49a4cbed3_b.jpg
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[Zephyr]

According to one study, HK is the most expensive place to rent in the world - that's right, more expensive than NYC.* Add to that another factoid, in the southern district of HK, where Aberdeen Harbour is king, the most densely populated island in the world is Ap Lei Chau.** (BTW Chau means 'Island,' and Ap Lei means 'Duck Tongue,' the latter possibly referring to the shape of that island.)

Ap Lei Chau and Aberdeen Harbour are still part of HK. Ap Lei Chau is like a borough, to use the NYC frame of reference (with HK Central the equivalent of Manhattan). This is not the most expensive housing, but density has translated into another type of skyline. Not as glitzy but interesting to look at and appreciate.

Aberdeen Harbour is also known for the people that live on boats and sampans there. Most of them are very poor.

http://www.wright-photo.com/Chinaimages/037hong_kong.jpg

From another direction, the famous floating restaurants are a tourist attraction. Before and after a given repast, restaurant customers often gaze out from the Harbour and view the skyline. Below are what some residents of Ap Lei Chau see, when they look out from their skyscrapers and onto Aberdeen Harbour. This is not the best view of the density, but it allows you to see the type of buildings that populate the area.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/327064856_1937052589_o.jpg

___________________
* Most expensive to rent - http://www.eca-international.com/Asp/ViewArticle2.asp?ArticleID=189
** Ap Lei Chau, world's most densely populated island - http://www.worldislandinfo.com/SUPERLATIVESV2.html

[Zephyr]

Have you ever wondered what the ESB equivalent would be in HK? Most people would immediately think of the picture on the left (tallest thin building in background). Try the picture on the right, which looks like it was directly inspired by ESB.

http://www.globalphotos.org/hongkong/20051018/IMG_2536.jpghttp://www.globalphotos.org/hongkong/20051018/IMG_2425.jpg
.

[Zephyr]

Those Harbour views are fine, but how dense can it be behind that skyline? Here is a very small sampling from HK Central - more will follow.


http://www.globalphotos.org/hongkong/20051018/IMG_2502.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/hongkong/20051018/IMG_2474.jpg
http://www.globalphotos.org/hongkong/20051018/IMG_2426.jpg

[Scraperfannyc]

Office buildings in many Asian cities have taken leaps and bounds and NYC is falling behind besides the WTC. Hong Kong has the natural background, and probably one of the most scenic. However, the residential buildings look like a whole lotta McSams or not much better than housing projects, and this can ruin the whole feel of the city once you pass the skyline barrier. For skyline ranking alone, I would say it is a tough call, but for the overall ranking of buildings and architecture, NYC hands down (assuming the McSams and Maclowes do not remake NYC).

[alonzo-ny]

Ive known for a while that the majority of HKs skyscrapers are basically 'projects' while that makes for density it makes the city horrible over all, you can see them in pretty much every picture of the HK skyline.

[cysthead30]

Why do people quote the entirety of photograph sections? Especially when you're the second poster?

And no, I do not feel Hong Kong's skyline has overtaken New York's (spec. downtown). Hong Kong has intelligently focused wonderful skyscrapers around mundane highrises to create a dramatic effect at night. Plus an extraordinary location, it is stiff competition, but still no dice.

But really though, who cares?


I do

[alonzo-ny]

Id venture that the built environment, skyscrapers particularly, and this city mean a large part of alot of people on this forums lives, so im sure many people care. And if you dont why are you even on the forum?

[GVNY]

I am on Wired New York for the intelligent architectural and urban planning discussions related to the City of New York and its environs, my adopted hometown from the mid 1950's to only recently.

I come to the site to read about developments both in new buildings and regular news involving the city, and seek insight provided by other forumers; sometimes offering some myself--as I did in this thread. I gave a logical opinion on post three, and then followed my response with a question which seems to have made you upset. I apologize for making you angry. Since the skyline comparison competition between New York and Hong Kong makes you so passionate, I humbly withdraw my comments.

I hadn't realized people bothered themselves with such pointless, unanswerable comparisons.

[alonzo-ny]

Maybe our meaning of the word 'care' have caused a clash, if you meant 'care' as a petty 'my skylines bigger than yours' context then i agree but i read it as something else more along the lines of a passionate discussion of opinions on things we truely 'care' about. If you implied the former i apologise.

[cysthead30]

I am on Wired New York for the intelligent architectural and urban planning discussions related to the City of New York and its environs, my adopted hometown from the mid 1950's to only recently.

I come to the site to read about developments both in new buildings and regular news involving the city, and seek insight provided by other forumers; sometimes offering some myself--as I did in this thread. I gave a logical opinion on post three, and then followed my response with a question which seems to have made you upset. I apologize for making you angry. Since the skyline comparison competition between New York and Hong Kong makes you so passionate, I humbly withdraw my comments.

I hadn't realized people bothered themselves with such pointless, unanswerable comparisons.

I think you're blowing it way out of proportion. I actually didnt even think you would respond to it. I was just stating that I take an interest in that particular comparison.....and please dont 'humbly' withdraw your comments if you're going to make digs afterwards. Hopefully your 'realization' has been one of awakening and learning....;)

[GVNY]

Of course!

And it would be unlike me not to respond (which I did--to Alonzo, and not your 'I do.')

[Zephyr]

...However, the residential buildings look like a whole lotta McSams or not much better than housing projects, and this can ruin the whole feel of the city once you pass the skyline barrier.

Scraperfanny - I couldn't help but notice this part of your comments.

As you are aware, I have an alternate view that there is no hands down winner here, but now I'll have to expand this to include residential skyscraper stock as well, since your view seems to be derived partially from the dismissal of HK residential stock based on Ap Lei Chao.

My inclusion of Ap Lei Chao was not meant to show representative residential housing in HK, because it would not qualify. The residential towers in HK Central would not be representative of HK housing on the other end. In fact if I were to post the residential towers from all areas of Hong Kong, you would see a great variety of highrise residential housing that runs the gamut from drab crumbling projects that hang laundry from poles out windows, to high-roller architecturally glitzy condominiums.

Contrary to the tendency of looking at only those few money shots of the very best of the skylines of a city, I am trying to expand the discussion ever so slightly into other significant parts of the skyline, or even other skylines in the same city. I am fully aware you can make a case that referring to Ap Lei Chao's skyline in HK discussion is like talking about Brooklyn's skyline in NYC, when everyone knows that we are comparing Manhattan Island to Hong Kong Island. But this is why I included it. Not only is it a skyline in HK, although not THE skyline, it is interesting and perhaps unknown to most posters on WNY who will visit this thread.

NYC is a world class city and no one will ever doubt that, but that does not mean that other cities cannot challenge. Believe me, HK is perhaps the most serious challenger one can find to NYC and not just in the area of skyscraper amount and density of skyline. I think it is more a question of what you like, rather than which one is number 1. The inherent problem with any discussion that compares NYC to another great city on WNY, will be the vast majority of posters may be unaware of that other challenger, or more disturbedly, too quick to dismiss the challenge because the world still comes back to our doorsteps on such matters as skyscrapers.

Make no mistake, I am making my posts on HK not because I think it is number 1, but rather it is an intriguing counterpoint to NYC in this area. If there is a WHK, I would probably be making posts of Manhattan and maybe even Brooklyn, the Bronx or Staten Island. But let's face it - HK would probably know more about NYC than most of us know about their city.

[Radiohead]

I hadn't realized people bothered themselves with such pointless, unanswerable comparisons.

General "which city is BETTER than another" questions may be pointless and unanswerable. But opinions on which skylines are more visually appealing are not pointless, as you say. Some people find them interesting, as everyone has their own guidelines and criteria for what makes a dynamic skyline. This is the skyscrapers and architecture forum, which by it's nature would include comparisons between not only one building to another, but one city to another.

[brianac]

Has Hong Kong Skyline Overtaken NYC's?

I don't think so. After all New York had quite a start.

A photo I took in 1956 from Victoria Peak looking down on the two buildings of note. 1) The Hong Kong and Shanghai Bank, and 2) The Bank of China.

[Zephyr]

Tall buildings have existed throughout the centuries, but modern skylines, built from the so-called skyscraper – a term borrowed from tall ships – reflect a shorter history. That history dates back to the nineteenth century, and is not simply based on height, but also on type and method of construction.

Credible scholarship has suggested that skyscrapers and the modern skyline actually began in Chicago, not New York, based on these concepts. But when HK entered the picture, it quickly became the Asian symbol of the modern skyline, bar none. Like HK, Tokyo had many tall buildings, so did Shanghai, Singapore, etc. But HK quickly transitioned into the modern skyline and outpaced its rivals, despite deficits in population that it had by comparison. And the emergence of the skyscraper there was not just to gain status but in response to its real estate and multi-variant demands in the world economy.

A 50 plus year old photograph is interesting in showing how far behind HK was to NYC, but 50 years is a sizeable chunk in skyscraper history, and HK has grown from that point to a world-class skyline within two decades of the photo, and has broadened and deepened in scale as a result. According to Emporis, HK has the greatest number of what it calls skyscrapers. But even if we reject that number, it is hard to ignore the size and density of modern skyscrapers in the HK skyline as of today.

The elephant standing in the room that portends HK’s future is Communist China. What will be in store for this city in post-Olympic China? In current China it is not being arrested in its growth. HK’s rich initially fled to other places to find secondary shelter in case things immediately changed – but they did not. Many have returned while maintaining dual residency. But there is always the threat that will exist and could effect this great city in the years to come.

[JohnFlint1985]

For me New York always will be number one - no matter what kind of crazy show off skyscrapers someone will build. NYC it not just buildings - it is also people and cultures from all over there world. each has his corner there. NYC is a cultural center of European culture which Hong Kong can never beat by a long shot. Finally and this is what you have to feel - NYC has this air of freedom around it. No other place has it as much nd I have been to quite a few.

I took a long look at all these places in Dubai, China, Moscow lately. Maybe it is just me - but I found that most of what is being build repeats in some form or element what already has been done in NYC somewhere. IT is done in a new form - but if you really want to find something genuinely new - you will have a really hard time. 95% in my opinion - just contemporary copies. Sometimes much uglier than originals which had taste and proportions.

[Jake]

HK really has two things going for it

1- the city is really crammed along the harbor which puts the entire skyline in one line. As much as NYC is a city with limited space we still have our Midtown, Downtown, and Brooklyn skylines spread across the area and viewed from many sides.

HK has one skyline. NYC has at the very least five. The west side and east side midtown skylines are impressive by themselves, not to mention all of downtown.

2- Lights. Looks how well lit HK is, NYC does a horrible job in this area. Even Empire state is lit by pathetic colored lights instead of some impressive searchlights that would properly show the shadows of its setbacks and so on. Same thing goes for every building in NYC, if we lit up 70 Pine st and 40 Wall St the way we light up 30 Rock the skyline would look much better.


To me this is a non issue. NYC has much better buildings. It doesn't take much to light up twenty of your identical high rise condos. There's only half a dozen really good buildings in HK where NYC probably has four times that. If we put all our buildings in a line, lit them up, and brought back the WTC nobody would even come close.