LES Pathmark may get new condo tower

[antinimby]

According to racked.com (http://racked.com/archives/2007/11/01/les_pathmark_to_be_replaced_by.php), there is a substantial rumour that the Pathmark supermarket at 227 Cherry St. near the foot of the Manhattan Bridge may get redeveloped.

Downtown Express (see next post) then further investigated the story today and of course, all that attention wouldn't escape curbed.com (http://curbed.com/archives/2007/11/01/les_pathmark_site_250_million_50_stories_of_fun.ph p#more):

LES Pathmark Site: $250 Million, 50+ Stories of Fun

Thursday, November 1, 2007, by Joey

http://curbed.com/uploads/2007_10_pathmark2.jpg
http://curbed.com/uploads/2007_10_pathmark1.jpg

The rumor, it appears, is at least somewhat true. Racked (http://racked.com/archives/2007/10/30/rackedwire_pathmark_les_to_clo.php) ran a tip from someone who claimed the Pathmark on Cherry Street, near the East River in the Lower East Side/Two Bridges realm, is for sale, and the land had already been snatched up by Donald Trump. Then this Downtown Express (http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_232/shoppershungryfor.html) story turned up that contained whispers of a new skyscraper going up in the Pathmark's place. Well, good things come to those who Google, because a tipster found a Developer Resource Group (http://developerresourcegroup.com/) PDF sales brochure for the Pathmark site just by searching for the address. No Trump connection to speak of—yet—but holy shit. Prepare to be absolutely amazed.

The site is for sale for $250 million. Amazingly, not only will the Pathmark store stay in its place (perhaps following a temporary closure during construction?), but any developer who buys the land must build a 7,000-square-foot extention to the Pathmark for a new pharmacy. Excluding the one-story Pathmark building, there's about 924,000 square feet of buildable area remaining. With inclusionary housing bonuses, the total grows to 1.1 million square feet.
That's a crapload of space, so the seller has prepared two proposals for prospective buyers to show off what can be done. The first is twin 50+ story towers on top of the current Pathmark parking lot with a private entrance at Cherry and Pike Slip (pictured at top). The second is a 55+ story tower, also on the parking lot with an entrance at Cherry and Pike (above). We're getting a little dizzy just thinking about all this, so here's some more graphics from the brochure, and after that, well just let you download the damn thing yourself!

http://curbed.com/uploads/2007_10_pathmark4.jpg

http://curbed.com/uploads/2007_10_pathmark3.jpg

[antinimby]

Shoppers hungry for info as Pathmark signals it may close


http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_232/path.gif
Pathmark shoppers


By Julie Shapiro
Nov. 1, 2007 (http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_232/shoppershungryfor.html)

It looks like the Cherry St. Pathmark will soon be closing, and from the aisles to the parking lot, that’s all shoppers are talking about.

“I heard from people who work there,” said Renee Silverberg, who was pushing a cart of groceries out of the store Monday morning.

John Quinn, a Southbridge Towers resident, said two Pathmark workers told him that they’d been given 90 days notice. Store employees have told other locals, including residents of Knickerbocker Village, that the store will close either in late December or early January.

For the moment, Pathmark management is keeping quiet.

“Don’t know, haven’t been told, haven’t seen it in print,” said a manager who declined to give his name. “I’ve heard a thousand rumors but none coming from above me…. There’s nothing for now but pure speculation.”

Meanwhile, in Pathmark’s parking lot, workers drilled through the pavement into the ground.

Sandy Sze, a staff engineer for Langan Engineering & Environmental Services, said in general, engineers use soil samples to make sure the ground is stable enough to support the weight of a structure.

“I believe they’re preparing for a building of some sort” on the Pathmark site, she said. “But I don’t know what it is.”

Paul Mullins, one of Craig Test Boring’s drillers, agreed that engineers typically want the soil samples to design buildings.

“They tell us ‘drill here,’ and that’s what we do,” Mullins said.

Richard Savner, Pathmark’s spokesperson, denied that Pathmark employees had been given notice, but he did not dispute that the store’s contractors were making preperations for a new building at 227 Cherry St.

No matter what a new building would be — rumors focus on a residential development — Pathmark’s customers will not be pleased.

The store stands in the shadow of the Manhattan Bridge, a dense residential neighborhood dotted with corner groceries. But if Pathmark closes, residents say there is no local alternative that has the same variety of fresh food.

In other Downtown neighborhoods further away, such as Battery Park City and Tribeca, there have been many complaints about shopping choices and in the past, groups like the Battery Park City Neighbors Association and the Downtown Alliance have organized weekly shuttle vans, bringing senior citizens and others to the store.

Silverberg shops exclusively at Pathmark because they sell kosher meat and fresh fish. Her friends from the Upper East Side also come to the store, drawn to its big parking lot, reasonable prices and the quality of the food, Silverberg said.

”I don’t know of any other place that has what they have,” she said.

Elizabeth Santana lives in a co-op at Cherry & Montgomery Sts. and walks to the Pathmark at least twice a week.

If the Pathmark closes, Santana will shop at “some other local supermarket,” she said. “But I won’t get the same [quality] produce or meats.”

Lydia Perednia, who lives at First Ave. and E. Fourth St., said her husband loves to shop at Pathmark even though there are stores in the East Village.

“It’s a shame because it’s a beautiful store and it’s a convenience for people in the neighborhood,” Perednia said. “There are senior citizens down there that don’t even have places to shop except for Pathmark…. Where are these people going to shop?”

As word of Pathmark’s closure spread, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver issued a statement.

“I urge Pathmark to quash these rumors of its impending closure and to remain anintegral part of our neighborhood,” Silver said.

Pathmark employees were unsettled and short on information Monday.

“I want to know [officially] because I’d have to leave,” a deli worker said.

Another employee, who was stocking shelves, was surprised at the suggestion that Pathmark might close.

“They didn’t tell us about that,” she said, raising her eyebrows. “I hope not.”

But not everyone is unhappy about Pathmark closing.

Mohamad Atah, owner of H & M Madison Express Inc., a corner grocery at Madison & Rutgers Sts., smiled at the thought.

“For the community, it’s bad,” he said. “But maybe my store will make a little more money.”

Atah predicted that he would sell a few extra groceries, but said that he doesn’t have enough room to stock additional items.

Even if the closure brings in some new customers, Atah said, “It will hurt the people who live here.”

http://www.downtownexpress.com/inside_dt_logo.gif

[Stern]

Damn. $250 million for a parking lot in the hood....Can they get it?

[antinimby]

Lord, I so hope this happens and that we get the elliptical design. :)

That whole supermarket and lot is such an eyesore plus they can always get another grocery store at the base of the new tower.

[Stern]

None of those design will be built, but if the eliptical tower was built it would look horrible, it would fit right in with the housing projects though.

[antinimby]

^ It doesn't have to look housing project-like, if done right.

Damn. $250 million for a parking lot in the hood....Can they get it?Well, you've got to realize that includes nearly one million buildable sf. I haven't done the math but I'm sure it is probably what the market is right now.

I'm more worried about the potential of this getting NIMBY-fied into another squat, Avalon Chrystie hulk instead.

[investordude]

This sounds like an as of right sale to me.

[NewYorkDoc]

If the Pathmark, or another low cost supermarket, doesn't go in the base of a new tower, I say keep the site as is.

[investordude]

curbed seems to sugget the buyer would be required to actually expand pathmark. I assume it will close during the building's construction though.

I have to say that seems like a really silly reason not to build this - worrying about keeping a pathmark. It's called supply and demand - if there is demand for a supermarket (which there would be if this closes) another one will sprout up, either in the base of this tower or is some underutilized space around there. Meanwhile, the area will get new residents whose buying power will help attract additional retail and help the neighborhood grow, so that it isn't a place where the loss of 1 supermarket has a major impact on people's lives.

[investordude]

I wonder if this is just speculation about something not really happening.

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_233/undercover.html

[pscoln1]

there will be no more brand name super markets in manhattan anymore ... how sad!

[pscoln1]

other then Food Emporium, Traitor Joes, and your local bodega's

[antinimby]

I wonder if this is just speculation about something not really happening.
http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_233/undercover.html Something eventually will still happen. There's nearly one million buildable space on that lot. This is still space limited Manhattan. If the price is right, I'm sure it will sell.

As for all the crying about the supermarket, Pathmark is an old-style grocery chain that just doesn't work anymore, in Manhattan. Management knows that and so they're looking to get out.

Economics tells us that eventually somebody will come in to fill its void that better meets the needs of the changing demographics of the city. Whole Foods is an example.

[Derek2k3]

This design for the site was on the Karl Fischer website some time ago.

[lofter1]

Looks like they're shoving this new one right up against that homely ~ 15-20 story thing next to the FDR.

[friedrice]

i think that pathmark is the highest grossiing supermarket in manhattan.

Also, i think they still have about 40 years on their lease, hence the previous proposals calling for it to remain open- but who knows

[ablarc]

^ Will they build a parking garage for the Pathmark?

[friedrice]

theres actually already an underground garage under pathmark. the entrance is in the rear off southstreet.

[antinimby]

i think that pathmark is the highest grossiing supermarket in manhattan.I find that totally illogical and hard to believe. How can a forlorn looking store that's not only NOT expanding but actually in retreat is the most lucrative in all of Manhattan?

Unless you have something more concrete to back that up, I think I'll trust my intuition that they are in trouble.

[lofter1]

According to the NY Sun (http://www.nysun.com/article/55560?page_no=2) the highest grossing Pathmark is at 125 / Lex (bottom of page 2) ...



The highest grossing Pathmark in the chain is located on 125th Street and
Lexington Avenue and the second is at 146th Street and Bradhurst Avenue.

[friedrice]

^^ i'm human.. i was wrong :rolleyes:

[NewYorkDoc]

I have to say that seems like a really silly reason not to build this - worrying about keeping a pathmark. It's called supply and demand - if there is demand for a supermarket (which there would be if this closes) another one will sprout up, either in the base of this tower or is some underutilized space around there. Meanwhile, the area will get new residents whose buying power will help attract additional retail and help the neighborhood grow, so that it isn't a place where the loss of 1 supermarket has a major impact on people's lives.

Building just to build, and rid something considered to some an eyesore, seems an even sillier reason to me. Not to mention, if the current design is what we'll see, I dont see whats so great about it.

[ASchwarz]

There is no "current design", unless you have some insider knowledge. Those sketches are just massing studies.

[NewYorkDoc]

As for all the crying about the supermarket, Pathmark is an old-style grocery chain that just doesn't work anymore, in Manhattan. Management knows that and so they're looking to get out.

Economics tells us that eventually somebody will come in to fill its void that better meets the needs of the changing demographics of the city. Whole Foods is an example.

I'd take a PathMark over another Whole Foods any day. Not everyone can afford to shop at Whole Foods, so it cant fill the entire void.

[NewYorkDoc]

There is no "current design", unless you have some insider knowledge. Those sketches are just massing studies.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what we get.

[antinimby]

A YIMBY Crowd Rallies on the Lower East Side



By Mathew R. Warren
December 20, 2007 (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/a-yimby-crowd-rallies-on-the-lower-east-side/), 3:20 pm

It’s not every day that a community rallies in support of a chain store. But that is what a group of Lower East Side and Chinatown residents did today, in support of the Pathmark at 227 Cherry Street. Call them YIMBY’s. Yes in my backyard.

Of course, they are opposed to something — namely, the possibility that the supermarket will be sold for $250 million to make way for luxury condos.
About 100 demonstrators armed with petitions gathered at the store, holding signs that read “Stop Gentrification!” and chanting, “$250 million for condos we can’t live in, that’s crazy!”

Harvey Epstein, a Lower East Side resident who is director of the Community Development Project at the Urban Justice Center, said, “If they put in luxury condos it’s going to bring in higher income people. It will further spur gentrification and result in the displacement of our low-income people.”

The protest was organized by O.U.R. Waterfront (Organizing and Uniting Residents on the Waterfront), an alliance of community-based organizations. The demonstrators were joined by Public Advocate Betsy Gotbaum, and representatives from the offices of State Senator Martin Conner and City Councilman Alan Gerson.

“As elected officials, it is our job to listen to the voices of the community and act in their best interest,” Ms. Gotbaum said. “We need this Pathmark to remain open as a symbol of our commitment to listening to New York’s communities.”

The immediate area includes more than 20 public housing residences, and the Pathmark on Cherry Street has served the neighborhood’s lower-income population for more than two decades.

“If I had to go someplace else, it would be at least six blocks away, and it would be very difficult for me,” said Gussie Lamar, 84, who lives just across the street from the supermarket and uses a wheelchair.

Not only would they lose a supermarket in an area with few consumer options, residents said, but they also depend on the Pathmark’s affordable prices, which they said they would be unable to find at other locations.

Ed Novack, 71, a lifelong resident of the Lower East Side, held up a receipt that listed his total savings from using his Pathmark card for the year at $1,116.03.

“I can’t afford to go shopping anywhere else,” said Mr. Novak, who lives on a fixed income.

GOLES (Good Old Lower East Side), a community group, handed out surveys to residents for a report they plan to present the Community Board 3.

“Residents are generally kicked out of the process of deciding what comes in and what goes out of their community,” said Angel Seda, 26, a community organizer for GOLES, who was raised in the nearby Jacob Riis Houses. “This survey is a community assessment to show what the people want in area.”

Workers at the Pathmark declined to comment about the protest, but a manager, who would not give his name, said he had yet to hear anything definitive about the supermarket closing.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

[ASchwarz]

More NIMBY B.S.

There are two similarly-priced supermarkets within a few blocks of the Pathmark. Nobody will go without food. There are about a million much cheaper, much healthier grocery options in Chinatown, which is basically across the street.

Nobody will be replaced by the luxury development. If you are poor and living in Manhattan in 2007, you do not pay market rents. These people are mostly in protected public or Mitchell-Lama housing, with maybe a handful in rent control and HPD/HUD programs. It's irrelevent what happens to the local market rates, since none of them are subject to the market.

[antinimby]

I was about to say. What they're calling for is bordering on the absurd. Let's say the Pathmark some way or another goes out of business, does that mean that in order for these people to have continued access to a grocery store, perhaps the government will then have to provide that, too?

They live in these horribly designed towers-in-the-park projects that if they were designed well, would have retail on the ground floor and thus this problem of not having stores nearby wouldn't be a problem. In other words, the very buildings they are living in are the cause of their problems, not some other offsite property.

[pianoman11686]

Something tells me these people, while "for" Pathmark, would be against Wal-Mart if it were to be the retail anchor for this new development.

[MidtownGuy]

You're right. Walmart sucks.

[pianoman11686]

I wasn't endorsing them. If their opposition is truly a result of losing an affordable place to shop, then they'd embrace Wal-Mart in a new condo development. There are other considerations in play here, IMO.

[MidtownGuy]

Of course there are.
Incidentally, I seek out and shop in stores with good prices but I wouldn't patronize a Walmart.
It's a matter of principal. Plenty of the people in that neighborhood might feel the same, give them some credit. In fact, oppsition to Walmart in other areas of the city shows a general disdain for the effect their presence would have here, and for the inconsistency of their labor practices with New York expectations. Pathmark has a contract with the United Food and Commercial Workers Union so the logic is flawed:If their opposition is truly a result of losing an affordable place to shop, then they'd embrace Wal-Mart in a new condo development. because Pathmark and Walmart are very different, and perceived differently by many people. There exists particular disapproval toward Walmart's way of doing things.

[investordude]

I think you're deceiving yourself if you think Walmart's business practices are more harsh than those in the typical bodega or outer borough immigrant supermarket or 99 cent store. Walmart probably pays its employees minimum wage and attempts to hire legal workers, unlike outer borough markets and 99 cent stores.

Likewise in Manhattan below Harlem, rents are too high and the spaces are too small to make Walmart logical.

Target is successful, but its also different in that they actually offer good service at Target and are a slightly different, previously underserved, market that wants cheap stuff but not so cheap service and quality are bad. I think when Walmart finally does open, they may struggle to turn a profit.

[MidtownGuy]

Did you even read my post? I compared Walmart to Pathmark, not bodegas. The point of disagreement arose from a statement regarding Pathmark and Walmart. P-A-T-H-M..... Oh jesus, forget it.

[pianoman11686]

Incidentally, I seek out and shop in stores with good prices but I wouldn't patronize a Walmart. It's a matter of principal. Plenty of the people in that neighborhood might feel the same, give them some credit. In fact, oppsition to Walmart in other areas of the city shows a general disdain for the effect their presence would have here, and for the inconsistency of their labor practices with New York expectations. Pathmark has a contract with the United Food and Commercial Workers Union so the logic is flawed: because Pathmark and Walmart are very different, and perceived differently by many people. There exists particular disapproval toward Walmart's way of doing things.

You may be surprised to hear this coming from me, but I too despise Wal-Mart. I avoid it like the plague, and on the off-occasion that I absolutely have to buy something there, I'm in and out in 5 minutes. I've had to do a case study and some other research on their practices, and a lot of what they do is downright illegal. I'm surprised they've gotten off so easy until now.

It's not that I'm against principle. It's that I think the opponents to the plan are using the loss of an "affordable supermarket" as an excuse to protest the project. That's why I brought up the Wal-Mart analogy.

For better or worse, gentrification is changing their neighborhood. This is one instance where they have a tangible threat to draw attention to.

I came to this conclusion through a thought exercise: if the Pathmark were instead a parking lot, or a gas station, there would still be opposition - to the height, to raising neighborhood prices, to construction noise. But there would be fewer opponents, and their argument would be less persuasive.