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lofter1
December 18th, 2007, 12:43 AM
I post this in the spirit of keeping things here at WNY working as smoothly and fairly as possible ...

Could the Moderators please clarify what does and does not warrant an infraction?

It seems that there are two threads regarding general conduct on the forum:

Forum Rules of Conduct (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3711)
Forum and Blog User Manual and FAQ (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9268)The most recent post on either thread was ~ 18 months ago.

Yet this week there seems to have been an uptick in meting out infractions for what Moderators are describing as new criteria for same (for example, the use of "POS" now warrants an infraction, whereas in the past it had become a widely used shortcut to describe garbage architecture).

I have never received a warning or a PM regarding the use of that now-banned acronym, and only discovered that its use is no longer acceptable after a chance reading of some posts on an architecture thread.

So ... something clear and concise letting us know what's up when changes are made would be of benefit.

It seems important that things be kept in line in a way which is unified -- and doesn't change depending upon the time of day that one comes on board and makes posts.

Thanks,
L1

NoyokA
December 18th, 2007, 12:58 AM
POS was used several times in the 59-story tower; 57th & 2nd thread.

I politely informed the parties using the term on that thread of the situation.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204485&postcount=66

Also Londonlawyer, Antinimby, and others, please refrain from using POS. It takes all but a second to think of an analogous word that is not an acronym for Piece of Shit. The subject was discussed in the moderators forum and we, along with Edward have come to an agreement that the use of POS is not acceptable. I'm asking this nicely so that infractions do not have to be issued. Thanks, guys.

This post was made December 16th

On December 17th Londonlawyer who was earlier specifically addressed made this post

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=204711&postcount=16

I agree, Krull.

Also, the old proposal had a sloped roof, whereas the new one simply seems to be a flat-roofed box. POS.

An infraction for 10 points was issued.

You're asking for "something clear and concise letting us know what's up when changes are made would be of benefit." It doesn't get more clear and concise than addressing a member by name, explaining the situation, and asking them nicely to stop the behavior, the explanation was ignored and an infraction was given, via pm londonlawyer expressed that he had no problem with the infraction and that he will not use the acronym again. The infraction served its purpose.

ZippyTheChimp
December 18th, 2007, 01:22 AM
The minor infractions seem to upset people, but our edits are often ignored, and it's the best way to get noticed.

NoyokA
December 18th, 2007, 01:31 AM
Members really shouldn't get held-up on them. They are issued only to show that we mean business about a particular forum issue. Not to speak badly of LL, but I think he had no problem with this infraction because he has already accumulated 100 infraction points and will probably accumulate 100 more when all is said and done. It’s 10 points that expire. To date I have not banned any member using the infraction system, and never will, to my knowledge I do not know any member that was banned using the infraction system, save for blatant spammers.

BrooklynRider
December 18th, 2007, 09:51 AM
My personal viewpoint, which ultimately concurs with the team of Moderators here, is that this is a far too articulate community to devolve into the use of Instant Messaging acronyms. I think many of us agree about some of the characterations of buildings, both old and new," as POS. However, it is a term that, once used in a rather isolated way, has now gained steam amongst Forum Veterans. I think everyone will agree that it is the veterans who really set the example and tone here.

Generally, we always nudge each other into supporting our posted assertions in the threads. POS is an opinion that requires explanation, so it seems an upfront description removes the need for explanation.

POS might be acceptable if this were a private forum, but its not. Plus, as Stern has fairly argued, this forum gets linked to others as sources. Let's live up to the quality standard we self-impose. POS is a quality killer.

One other item on infractions...

Passionate arguments are a staple here and fuel some of the very best threads at WNY. However, the devolution of passion into personal insults is simply not acceptable. If your emotions get plugged in by a post, think twice about how you answer. If you find your self using the word "you" repeatedly in a response, chances are you're attacking the person and not the idea.

I know the self control I personally had to assert here was more self-control than I would generally use. However, the switch to Moderator forces an objectivity that really requires long time associations and interpretation based on personalities to be set aside.

For the most part, everyone gets minor infractions that soon expire. If you prefer, we could issue .gif dancing bananas and waving smiley faces in the thread, which would be akin to a scarlet letters, or start moving posts and splitting threads again.

Oh yes, we know how to annoy the heck out of you all if it persists.:D

lofter1
December 18th, 2007, 10:31 AM
Thanks all for the input --

These replies are the first that have explained that infractions have a short life and that they expire (initersting to note that ther is no mention at all of infractions -- let alone how they work -- on the Rules Of Conduct (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3711) thread).

So, if I get 10 infraction points then how much time before they expire?

And how many compiled points would it take to end up being banned?

Not that I personally would EVER push this to that level :cool:

PS: I think Stern's very clear explanation of the POS situation above uses that acronym more times in one post than any other in the history of WNY ;) .

Ninjahedge
December 18th, 2007, 11:14 AM
Yeah! WT.......!?

;)

stache
December 18th, 2007, 11:58 AM
Maybe this should be made into a sticky (How do I do that?)

Minor violation of forum rules of conduct - infraction - 10 points. duration - 14 days
************************************************** *********************
Inappropriate language - infraction - 30 points. duration - 14 days
************************************************** *********************
Violation of forum rules of conduct - infraction - 50 points. duration - one month
************************************************** *********************
Spam - infraction - 100 points. duration - forever
************************************************** *********************
Insulting other members - infraction - 100 points. duration - 7 days

It is my understanding that 100 points equals loss of posting privileges.

antinimby
December 18th, 2007, 01:17 PM
Maybe this should be made into a sticky (How do I do that?)You get a thumbtack.

stache
December 18th, 2007, 01:26 PM
If you don't have a good answer to a question, it's better if you don't post. I have had this conversation with you before. Thanks -

lofter1
December 18th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Thanks for posting the infraction scores.

Now, Let's see who can rack up the most points before New Years :cool:

BrooklynRider
December 18th, 2007, 10:16 PM
I gave myself an infraction to get the competition rolling. :D

NoyokA
December 18th, 2007, 10:36 PM
If only that were the case... I'd give myself a temporary ban so that I only spend my time studying for finals.

lofter1
December 18th, 2007, 11:08 PM
Deputize me ... I'll ban a whole slew of folks.

And then commute their sentences at Christmas :cool:

pianoman11686
December 19th, 2007, 12:51 AM
An infraction a day keeps...the potty mouth away?

(Stern, I feel your pain.)

Ninjahedge
December 19th, 2007, 04:02 PM
Be careful on your wording of "insulting other posters".

If I say lofter smells funny, I do not think that justifies a ban from the forum (funny ha-ha or funny strange?)

Anyway...

Also, warnings should be given before infraction points. I know this is a PITA, but we need to start communicaing rather than dictating and enforcing. If someone does not listen to the warning on the PM, then the infraction gets placed.

Just my thoughts. I think it makes for more of a community rather than a place of buisness kind of feel.

BrooklynRider
December 19th, 2007, 04:29 PM
Well, Lofter does smell funny, so where's the offense?

To the best of my knowledge and certainly as part of my style, everyone is given explanation of any infraction given and a directed to a thread to get more information on the guidelines.

From a bigger picture perspective, a minor infraction lets other Moderators act in accordance with each other. Whereas with a PM warning, none of us would ever know a warning is issued.

I appreciate the concern, but I think it is a product of the fact that, on one given evening, I noted a problem in one thread regarding some consistent and elevating personal attacks, while Stern noted in another thread that POS usage was becoming an annoying norm.

I don't think anyone is going crazy with issuing infractions or trying to turn the heat up on members here. Most of us know most of you and resolutions are easy. It's just that a short phrase or mention of another thread to Forum Veterans can quickly be all the reminder needed, while new posters adopt some of our own evolved behaviors - which the knowing folks here recognize are just characteristic of the individual.

For example, LondonLawyer used to employ stronger descriptions than "POS" on despised buildings. In response to a moderator warning/request, he switched up to using "POS." In his case, the use of the acronym was his way of getting in line with rules of conduct. However, others have just adopted it because they think it is WNY speak. The history here informs a lot of what we do and how we do it. Obviously, new members wouldn't know that.

Any of this make sense? :confused:

stache
December 19th, 2007, 04:42 PM
Generally speaking I try to give a subtle warning in the context of a thread or more directly through a PM before I go the infraction route. Sometimes I don't do that and go right to the infraction level. The way the software is set up here almost demands a PM being sent to the individual that explains the nature of the infraction. I always try to tell everyone the duration of the infraction points.

BrooklynRider
December 19th, 2007, 06:18 PM
FYI - I've given myself another infraction for using "POS" twice in my last post. I'll have banned myself by Christmas at this rate, spoiling any hopes of Lofter or others to rack up the most points by the New Year.

Ed007Toronto
December 19th, 2007, 09:05 PM
Where are the infractions, should one get one, posted?

NoyokA
December 19th, 2007, 09:08 PM
BR: I'm sorry if I'm killing the joke here, but I thought moderators can't give infractions to other moderators/themselves.

BrooklynRider
December 19th, 2007, 09:30 PM
Oh... sorry everyone.

lofter1
December 19th, 2007, 11:43 PM
Yeah, do the moderators have a cyber chart of infractees?

btw: I just checked with my inside source, and I have racked up 17 infractions as of 11 PM today. I'm leaving all you other posters in the dust!

Aha! You're all DUSTIFIED :p

lofter1
December 19th, 2007, 11:43 PM
and I do not smell :cool:

stache
December 20th, 2007, 12:15 AM
Well, other than like a flower...

lofter1
December 20th, 2007, 01:04 AM
^ :o

Ninjahedge
December 20th, 2007, 12:19 PM
and I do not smell :cool:

Could you provide a detailed report on that Loft?

Are you sure? Do you have nose-witness accounts? Did you know that an elephant can bust your nose-drum and since yours is not busted you have to smell?

:confused:

I think I inhaled too much on that other thread.

What a Piece of Sausage.

lofter1
December 20th, 2007, 01:26 PM
Sausage, indeed :)

Edward
December 20th, 2007, 05:23 PM
The infractions system should be regarded as a tool for communication between moderators and membership. With several moderators you need a coordination of activities between moderators, and the infractions tools makes it effective.

I think it is important to point out that the infractions of less than 100 points should not be regarded as some kind of punishment, it's merely a system to coordinate the communication with membership.

In the ideal world, it would be great to have a clear and comprehensive manual on infractions and the policy explained to members; however, everyone must realize that there is an overhead in administering the forum, so it's better to have this system implemented imperfectly then not implemented at all.

From a point of an individual member, if you receive the infraction for something and moderator explains what he wants you to do or not to do, you just follow the instructions, and then there is no need to know how many points and when they expire.

lofter1
December 20th, 2007, 07:22 PM
Clearly explained ^ Thanks

I hear infranctions and me flashes back to Sunday School, with sharp raps on my wee bare knuckles. :o

Now I see the difference.

JerryL
December 21st, 2007, 07:18 PM
I've read this thread and found it somewhat useful.

I think I should just say that should I get banned, that I have enjoyed the give and take of the forum and wish it well. I regret that I couldn't seem to get the hang of posting in a way that didn't upset the apple cart overmuch.

Thanks,

JerryL

Fabrizio
December 21st, 2007, 08:49 PM
Well Jer, if you gotta go, you gotta go. I only hope they ban you to some place nice.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GX-pVhTZg0U

lofter1
December 21st, 2007, 09:40 PM
lmao ^ (it's great to have you back)




... I have enjoyed the give and take of the forum ...

hmmmmm (http://www.amazon.com/Glutton-Punishment-Culinary-Mysteries-Warner/dp/0446609374)

:confused: