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JCMAN320
March 16th, 2008, 10:01 PM
What is so bad about my Great State of New Jersey. This is a great historic state with a great history. I mean more battles of the American Revolution took place in New Jersey than any other state. We are called the Crossroads of the Revolution and it is often said that while the revolution was thought of in Massachusetts, it was won in the trenches of New Jersey. Thomas Edison invented many of the things we use today here in New Jersey at his home in West Orange, which is a National Historic site and museum, and in Menlo Park. Hell even Albert Einstien made his home here in Princeton, New Jersey and lived here a majority of his life. New Jersey is a state of great stature and importance. Trenton was even voted on by the Northern states as being the Nations Capital because Washington's turning point victory happend there at the Battle of Trenton. The only reason why Trenton didn't become the Nation's Capital is because the Southern states wanted a site closer to the south. Then Trenton becames the State's capital instead. There is more great history here including the Birthplace of Baseball in Hoboken and the Birthplace of College Football at New Brunswick and Rutgers, etc....

We are one of the most progessive states in the country, far more progressive than New York. Civil Unions and soon to be gay marriage, stem cell research facilities, abolishment of the death penalty, toughest emission standards in the country, making it illegal for teens to possess tobacco, universal healthcare, great education system one of the best in the country, etc... what is so bad about New Jersey?!? I really don't understand it. I heard the samething when civil unions and gay marriage that NY'ers would move to New Jersey if only New Jersey wasn't Jersey.

I want someone to tell me what is so bad about such a progressive, forward thinking, historic, and illustrious state such as New Jersey, what is so bad about us?!?!? I really want to know!!

Alonzo-ny
March 16th, 2008, 10:08 PM
Is it easy to travel from place to place in Jersey without a car?

JCMAN320
March 16th, 2008, 10:23 PM
I think so the commuter rail system is quite extensive and they are getting ready to add new lines, the lightrail through the cities of Newark, Jersey City, and between the cities Trenton and Camden, the PATH system, the PATCO system between Camden County and Philadelphia and there are many bus routes and taxi companies.

Fabrizio
March 17th, 2008, 06:51 AM
I love So. Jersey. But man what a dumb place. I think the average IQ is about 50. It's surrounded by NY to the north, Philly to the west and Washington to the south... but it might as well be West Virginia.

BTW: does any state have so many great old-time beach towns like Jersey? In the South: Ocean City (a really cool b'walk), Cape May and the ultra-fab Stone Harbour.

Sorry for keeping on the subject of So. Jersey... but that's the Jersey I know (it's also half of the state)... anyway: outside of the shore and the Pines , there are really only a handfull of nice places.

A nice respite from the depressing housing developments, the malls, the abandoned small town mainstreets, is the very pretty Haddonfield:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mjkmjk/2141774727/sizes/l/


---

voodoochild
March 17th, 2008, 09:31 AM
Okay.....I dislike NJ for a couple of reasons....
1. If you miss a turn you have to drive 10 miles to find a U-turn because there are no left in New Jersey.

2. The people are slower(more laid back) I can't stand that. I myself am a very fast paced person.

3. The taxes are $$$ although, the schools are great and road construction gets done sooo fast in NJ thanks to those takes.

4. Unless you live in a busy town...you are getting nowhere w/out a car.

Ninjahedge
March 17th, 2008, 10:08 AM
Okay.....I dislike NJ for a couple of reasons....
1. If you miss a turn you have to drive 10 miles to find a U-turn because there are no left in New Jersey.

Where are you talking about? On the parkway in South Jersey, maybe, but everywhere else there are exits every few miles at least! :confused:


2. The people are slower(more laid back) I can't stand that. I myself am a very fast paced person.

Depends on the area. But then again, I think that most NYers are too slow (walking, stairs) when I am trying to get to work. You think NJ is slow, try going out west! ;)


3. The taxes are $$$ although, the schools are great and road construction gets done sooo fast in NJ thanks to those takes.

Yeah, schools are good, but money is being thrown at the problem schools and not really put to work like it should be. (Hoboken gets a multi million dollar football facility, and the lowest test scores in the state (or close to it)).

If you break down the actual $$ paid in taxes (including gas, electricity, cable, sales, etc etc etc) you find that NJ pays about the same as NYC, its outer boroughs, Staten Island, and LI..... We are all ni the asme big boat, but we all think we are special! ;)


4. Unless you live in a busy town...you are getting nowhere w/out a car.

Ya. That is the same in 99% of the US. You get spoiled in NYC. The only other one that has something this extensive and available is Chicago. Boston is close, but not nearly as big, AND it shuts down at 2am!!!!

You can get around almost anywhere in NJ w/o a car, it is just a royal PITA (or $$).

voodoochild
March 17th, 2008, 10:45 AM
^^^I'm not talking about Parkway, I'm talking about the streets. There are no left turns and a u-turn is like every 5-10 miles...so annoying.

And I also can't stand slow walkers and talkers. I bet I would just go insane if I went to the west. LOL

OmegaNYC
March 17th, 2008, 11:50 AM
^^^ what you cain't make left turns on streets? I didn't know all streets in Jersey were one ways going to the right. :confused:

voodoochild
March 17th, 2008, 12:03 PM
^^^ what you cain't make left turns on streets? I didn't know all streets in Jersey were one ways going to the right. :confused:
Most of the streets you MUST make a Uturn to go left. (I'm talking about Rt 1, Rt 9, Rt 35 etc)You can't turn left only right.
But thanks for the sarcasm.:rolleyes:

OmegaNYC
March 17th, 2008, 12:41 PM
Most of the streets you MUST make a Uturn to go left. (I'm talking about Rt 1, Rt 9, Rt 35 etc)You can't turn left only right.
But thanks for the sarcasm.:rolleyes:

Ahh. Jughandles. I see now.

You're welcome for the sarcasm. (insert sarcasm).

voodoochild
March 17th, 2008, 01:28 PM
Yes Jughandles.....that is what I dislike about Jersey..JUGHANDLES!:mad:

Thanks:D

turkishann
March 17th, 2008, 02:21 PM
what are jughandles :confused:

Ninjahedge
March 17th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Google it.

They are what is used on busier highways and the like for turning left or U-turning. You ride in the right lane, get off on what looks like an exit, but it just takes you out, then points you back at the highway as if it was an intersecting road. There is usually a traffic light. When the light goes, you can cross over (if there is a road on the other side) or U-turn.

It is more efficient than a simple stop-light intersection as you queue (sp) up off the road and do not back up traffic. It is usually used either on formerly more industrial roads (where there was no real reason for exits because there was nothing to exit to) or smaller roads that built to the volume where a left-hand turn was too congesting.

One step up from that is an overpass, where instead of a traffic light, you go OVER the road. No light or stoppage needed.

Most roads in NJ are not jug-handled. Just the ones closest to SI. 440, 1 and 9, etc. Routes 4, 17, 23, 46, 80, 208, 78, 95, the GSP and others are either full fledged highways, toll highways, or have exits pretty often, which makes me wonder (nicely) where voodoo has been driving.

Being that MOST of NJ is suburban, I can't see where you would think of NJ as being the state that you cannot make left-hand turns on....

Weird. ;)

turkishann
March 17th, 2008, 03:50 PM
thanks for that ninjahedge, wondered what it was ;)

Eugenious
March 17th, 2008, 10:13 PM
I love jersey my car insurance is half what it was in brooklyn and I'm only 15 mins from the GWB and the city and the roads are in much better condition and there's less traffic. My neighborhood is quiet I pay less rent there's virtually no crime, the stores are closed on sunday but that's the law.

New Jersey is a great place to live, less corruption and bureaucracy, the dmv takes minutes not hours, car inspections are free, there's no dirt and grime, there's more wide open spaces, more trees, more clean air.

etc etc. I could go on for hours...

Hey I still come to the city every weekend Im just glad I live in Jersey now (near my job :P)

voodoochild
March 18th, 2008, 09:25 PM
Most roads in NJ are not jughandled. Just the ones closest to SI. 440, 1 and 9, etc. Routes 4, 17, 23, 46, 80, 208, 78, 95, the GSP and others are either full fledged highways, toll highways, or have exits pretty often, which makes me wonder (nicely) where voodoo has been driving.

Being that MOST of NJ is suburban, I can't see where you would think of NJ as being the state that you cannot make left-hand turns on....

Weird. ;)[/quote]
I'm sorry...you must have forgotten about Rt 1, Rt 9, Rt 35..ets...those are what I drive on and they are ALL jughandle turns when going left. How do you see most of NJ being suburban? I think it is 1/2 industrial/commercial and the other 50% suburban. Central Jersey is where I drive.

Ninjahedge
March 19th, 2008, 09:09 AM
Like I said voodoo, "Just the ones closest to SI. 440, 1 and 9."

So where did I forget about 1 and 9?

Not only that, 1 and 9 are some of the WORST roads I have been on. It is similar to getting an opinion of NJ by driving through Newark and Randolph and thinking all of NJ is airport, stock yard and oil refinery!!! ;)


So I guess my point is, over-generalization of a state by the small area one may have been in is not a completely fair thing to do.

It has a tendency to make the natives (JCM!) restless! ;)

voodoochild
March 19th, 2008, 10:10 AM
Ninja, I wake up every morning and I thank God for having you in my life to set me straight in times of need.;):D

JCMAN320
April 4th, 2008, 01:02 PM
Lol this is great conversation. I really want to know though is why is there such a stigma against New Jersey, that any time I say I'm from New Jersey I get an eye roll or a "omg new Jersey sucks" or other ignorant comments like that? Why is there such a stigma and to a lesser extent a hatred of New Jersey?

Ninjahedge
April 4th, 2008, 01:43 PM
Because most people have to drive through Newark, 440, 1 and 9 or the Hudson Crossings!!!!!

Once you get out a bit, the Shore is great (some parts obviously better than others), the burbs pretty, but 90% BORING!, and the woods are, well, WOODS!

That being said, I can see why she has that opinion. Driving around the Skyway and in that deadzone between Hoboken and the 'Burbs proper is a bit disheartening.

Also, my mistake. I think it is not Randolph that is in the industrial zone, it may be Raritan. I KNOW it is Elizabeth though.....:P

I guess the main blessing and curse of NJ is NYC. Most of the attractions and other things are all centered around NYC and pulled out of some of the neighboring towns. There is also a ring around the city that is pretty much the feeder for it. Shipyards, industrial depots, etc. These areas are what gave NJ its money, but it also robbed it of a lot of its, I don't know how to say it, Purity?

Example: Hoboken. The place USED to be a vacation spot for NYers! It had a horse track/stale area (country club) and all sorts of little relaxing "escapist" amenities.

But that changed as industry moved in, and the vacation spot turned into "On the Waterfront" (STELLA!!!). It took it 40 or so years to come back from that and it is now, once again, a hot-spot.

But whatever. I think the state is fine. Not as exciting as some other places in the world, but not the 3-mile-island/toxic landfill that many unenlightened people would have us all believe.

JCMAN320
April 4th, 2008, 08:54 PM
Well that's the thing, we suffer from comaprison btwn urban NJ and urban NY. That is where the curse comes in.

Zea mays
April 5th, 2008, 12:58 AM
That's a good question. If a comedian on TV wants a guaranteed laugh, he mentions New Jersey, usually with some reference to chemical smells. Isn't the largest landfill in the world (Fresh Kills) located in New Jersey, or is that Staten Island? Whatever, everyone thinks it's in New Jersey. Your little state has garnered a poor reputation in the minds of the rest of America, and that's going to be a hard thing to turn around.

P.S. You could start by removing the small image of your state from the New Jersey license plates. (If it's still there I haven't seen a car from New Jersey in these parts in a coon's age.) It reminds a lot of folks of something else. :D

66nexus
April 5th, 2008, 02:02 PM
Eh. Screw the rest of America. If I wanted to live elsewhere I'd move.

The very smell people hate have a lot to do with reserves and manufacturing for products the rest of the country uses (probably while they're joking about NJ:D ). Other states usually have only a key city and nothing more.

No one ever stops to wonder why such a geographically small state has a population that rivals most of the larger states 10x the size.

66nexus
April 5th, 2008, 02:10 PM
I want someone to tell me what is so bad about such a progressive, forward thinking, historic, and illustrious state such as New Jersey, what is so bad about us?!?!? I really want to know!!

Nothing. NJ just doesn't promote it's positives enough. I used to hate Jersey, then I joined the army and had the 'pleasure' of being stationed in different states (Lousiana, Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, New Mexico, and even EXTREME upstate NY and Maine). There is a lot we take for granted in the Northeast, and more specifically NJ.

People drive on the Turnpike past Elizabeth and the airport and such (horrible scenery to say the least) and that wraps up the story for them.

Zephyr
April 5th, 2008, 09:35 PM
Of course none of this is unique to this area.

There is a similar dismissal of Indiana by Metropolitan Chicago, although Wisconsin generally gets a pass (with the possible exception of the city of Milwaukee, which often gets blasted).

You may know that Parisians and parts of Northern France think very negatively about Belgium, even the parts that speak French. Now that is a country not a state being dismissed. (Some tell me that Parisians hate eveybody, but I do not agree with that conclusion.)

Why mention this? Because this all might be motivated by overlapping reasons. I won't speculate on them specifically here, but I do have some in mind.

voodoochild
April 6th, 2008, 09:40 PM
Listen, people abuse Staten Island too. The dump is here, the children are animals and the one thing people know about this borough is that we have a mall. There are so many things about SI that are historic as well as New Jersey. When people say they hate Staten Island it doesn't even faze me, I just think to myself..."Well it's a good thing you don't live here then." I don't HATE NJ, I dislike certain things about it hence me not living there. NJ is too slow paced for me, it does not stay open 24/7 like NY and we all know I dislike the JUG HANDLES..lol BUT....gas is cheaper by 42 cents soooooo you guys will always hold a place in my heart.:D

JCMAN320
April 6th, 2008, 11:57 PM
Yes I heard that in Canada there is an area that is very industrial that gets ragged on. This comes to my next point; since when has industry become a bad thing? Beacuse it's dirty and not shinny and rich people don't work there they just own it. Since when did industry and being industrial become bad??

Also when I was in Italy last May for 10 days, Northern Italy is industrial and gets ragged on by Southern Italy. Why such a hatered for industry.

Ninjahedge
April 7th, 2008, 10:13 AM
Well, here's the thing. teh biggerst problem a lot of NJ has is that it, well, HAS! There are SO MANY affluent Suburbs, Soccer Moms, SUV's and Starbucks that other people start to look for the bad to justify their own meager holdings.

Watching real estate programs on TV we are surprised at what some areas consider to be premium as compared to what we know around NJ.

Also, as was said, NJ gets compared to its larger abusive sibling, NY. We don't even get a decent sports team although some of them play here (Giants and Jets). We don't have as many famous clubs or neighborhoods. Our colleges are not IN a city that dominates THEM. (Cooper, NYU and Columbia are 3 all within NYC and NONE of them dominate it. Stanford? Penn State? Cornel? Hell, even Princeton. They would all be ones that would ruin a town if they left.). We have a few scattered art venues, but you have to drive 30 minutes to get to any one of them (PNC BANK Arts center, NJPac, The Meadowlands).

You also have things like the woods, and skiing. NY has more of both, but not necessarily better on the former.

So although NJ is more diverse, more populated, more affluent, and quite frankly, more interesting than many of our midwestern and even neighboring states, our status of second-fiddle to one of the front runners makes us somehow less than Kansas. (PS, Kansas is not BAD, it is just...well...Kansas!)

Add to that different sterotypes that still linger even with new exposure being easily available everywhere. Everybody remembers 1980's Hoboken and JC as the places they would go as teens to get drunk and cause problems if they did not want to pay the tolls for NYC.


So whatever. I am not saying that NJ is the best, and certain areas should almost be cut off and floated out to sea, but the biggest iron of that being, these were the areas that grew the big cities. Almost ALL the port cities have something similar, and without them, we would not have the good parts that we now enjoy.

The problem is, how do you keep the hear and lungs of a beautiful being to stay on the INSIDE of the body rather than forcing everyone that meets him/her to see them as they pass?

Alonzo-ny
April 7th, 2008, 05:43 PM
Scotland England, North/ South of England, Wales. It is the same everywhere.

poppad
April 9th, 2008, 12:23 PM
New Jersey is definitely diverse. Aside from all of the industry and the quality of life,there is also much diversity in culture. NYC is everthing NY has as a state. The rest is a whole lot of nothing. Here in out little state we have Atlantic city down at one end, many shore points making its way up,(although the water isnt cristal clear), we have the largest reserve of pinelands, short commute to the largest city in the world, state forests to go camping, great variety of food and people and much more.

MidtownGuy
April 9th, 2008, 01:10 PM
NYC is everthing NY has as a state. The rest is a whole lot of nothing. Here in out little state we have Atlantic city down at one end

I know it's easy to dismiss upstate NY but how much of it have you actually visited? There are, for example the Adirondacks....gorgeous! There is the Fingerlakes region with lakes and vinyards and charming small towns. The Thousand Islands are cool... There's plenty up there to enjoy, at least as much as in Atlantic City and the NJ beach towns along a shore whose glory days have long passed:p

I'm originally from upstate, so there:p

ZippyTheChimp
April 9th, 2008, 01:40 PM
^
I completely agree.

Besides all the natural beauty, there's history along the river that reaches back to the Dutch.

It's the same for both states. Most people visit the heart of the metro area, and there's so much to do that they never see what's beyond.

Residents too.

Alonzo-ny
April 9th, 2008, 11:44 PM
Two questions.

Why didnt you start a thread saying NJ is great because...

If NYC didnt exist what would be in NJ.

66nexus
April 10th, 2008, 01:03 AM
Two questions.

Why didnt you start a thread saying NJ is great because...

If NYC didnt exist what would be in NJ.

W/O NYC Jersey City would probably be a much larger port city, I mean, afterall, it's still on the Atlantic Ocean waterfront. Just b/c NYC wouldn't be there doesn't mean the island of Manhattan would've been a state park for 300+ years.

Everyday, billions worth of goods cross the Hudson into NYC. The Port of Elizabeth and Newark handles almost all of the shipping traffic for the region

so I suppose a better question would be what would NYC and NJ be w/o each other?

Ninjahedge
April 10th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Jersey would have had one, possibly two towns much like Atlanta, Boston or any other east coast port.

It probably would have resembled thema bit more too. The fact that NYC was so perfectly situated boosted its presence and shadowed all surrounding areas. It also benefitted the areas around it in odd ways, more so in todays terms than yesteryear (when the only transport was a few trains and some grass eating pack animals...)

There are many things I like and hate about NJ, but I hope it starts showing a bit of Urban might and develops some of its city centers into the classics that we all enjoy instead of succuming to the sprawl that was encouraged by the availability of land and the inherent dislike of the individuals that LEFT the city because of it (Urbanity).

We do need more cities, more centers, and less sprawl. The web needs more nodes, and hopefully this will keep us in a pattern where we can still preserve what space we have left, but still have the amenities that are mostly only available in NYC and other urban cores.

We will see.

JCMAN320
April 22nd, 2008, 08:09 PM
Ed Koch to New Jersey: I won't go there even when I'm dead

by The Associated Press and Journal staff Tuesday April 22, 2008, 12:40 PM

Former New York Mayor Ed Koch says he wants to spend eternity in Manhattan.

But the outspoken politico couldn't quite resist taking a dig at New Jersey in the process.

"I don't want to leave Manhattan, even when I'm gone,'' Koch told The Associated Press. "This is my home. The thought of having to go to New Jersey was so distressing to me."

Koch didn't explain what the Jersey option might have been.

Even though the 83-year-old New Yorker says he's in good health, he confirmed today that he has purchased a burial plot for $20,000 in a cemetery in northern Manhattan.

The nondenominational Trinity Church Cemetery sits on one of the higher points on the island and is the only active graveyard in Manhattan accepting new burials.

Koch said he was thrilled to learn from a former aide now working for Trinity that the church permits Jews to be buried there and still had space.

Koch, who saw the city through some of its tougher years as mayor from 1978 to 1989, has had some health problems recently, related to a common spinal condition, but he said he's doing fine and isn't planning on needing his new piece of real estate anytime soon.

He said, though, that he is at an age when he's reflecting more on his life and his place in history.

For the inscription on his memorial stone, the gregarious, glad-handing former mayor passed up the phrase most associated with him - "How am I doing?" - for something more traditional.

The marker will bear the Star of David and a Hebrew prayer, "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One.''

It also will be inscribed with the last words of journalist Daniel Pearl before he was murdered by terrorists in 2002: "My father is Jewish. My mother is Jewish. I am Jewish.'

'Koch explained that he had been moved that Pearl chose to affirm his faith and heritage in his last moments.

Other luminaries interred at the cemetery include naturalist John James Audubon, actor Jerry Orbach, socialite Caroline Webster Astor and the theologian Clement Clark Moore, author of the famous Christmas poem "A Visit From St. Nicholas."

Ninjahedge
April 23rd, 2008, 02:24 PM
They can keep his rotting corpse anywhere for all I care, so long as that includes it being under 6 feet of dirt with the rest of them.

What a stupid thing to comment on.

Bob
April 23rd, 2008, 05:44 PM
What's so bad about NJ? Here's a pet peeve:

"65 MPH Zone. Fines doubled."

Ninjahedge
April 24th, 2008, 09:33 AM
What's so bad about NJ? Here's a pet peeve:

"65 MPH Zone. Fines doubled."

So?

You don't speed, you don't have to worry about the speeds being 600% higher! ;)

Ya gotta let that one go Bob.... It just ain't worth worrying about....

ZippyTheChimp
April 24th, 2008, 10:00 AM
Absolutely correct.

There are so many more important "so bad about New Jersey" things.

:D

Ninjahedge
April 24th, 2008, 10:49 AM
Wise arse. :p