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Gregory Tenenbaum
March 29th, 2008, 11:05 AM
Welcome to Heaf-Row

The Troof is Out There!

The opening of Terminal 5 in all of its splendor really does require its very own thread.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/Aviation/10185850.html

What really happened:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3645398.ece

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA0mQDMX8JI

The Heafrow opening reminds me of what happened last summer when USMC Harriers performed exercises with the RN on the British aircraft carrier.

The USMC Harriers performed more flight ops in one day than the whole RN did off two carriers in the entire Falklands War. Obviously, just like the tempo of operations in the RN, being in front of the telly to watch the football and getting enouff fish and chips and beer is more important than what should have been one of the the biggest events in British history with the opening of the brand spanking new terminal.

Even if Heafrow were demolished and rebuilt, Hong Kongs airport is still light years ahead.

The troof is out there. One more reason why London is falling behind.

Alonzo-ny
March 29th, 2008, 11:39 AM
Oh lets jump on a massively complex building's teething problems in the first three days of its existance and pretend thats the way it is all the time.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 29th, 2008, 11:46 AM
No,

The opening of this Terminal was to be the seminal event in the history of LHR to drag it out of its already poor reputation.

Thats why everyone was open mouthed at what actually happened when it opened.

Incredible.

I imagine that some African and Middle Eastern airports like Dubai must be having quite a chuckle at how good the British organized all of this.

Its a disgrace however you look at it. Heathrow PR machine is always boasting about how good it is.

The troof and the reality were somewhat different.

futurecity
March 29th, 2008, 12:08 PM
Well you should be complaining about your own airports. T5 kills JFKs terminals anyday. Ny is the one losing out not London. Maybe yo should be ridiculing American Airlines at JFK who built HALF a terminal to cut costs -- JFK terminal 8 is terminal cut int HALF..what a half arsed job dude, LOL!!

Luca
March 29th, 2008, 12:21 PM
Notwithstanding Tenenbaum's usual chauvinist rant against those of Albion, as a Londoner and a frequent victim of Heathrow I can't help but be, once again, flabbergasted by the general inability of transport authorities in the UK to get things right which seem to be well within the reach of lesser nations.

It's all made more galling by:
1) the uncharacteristically boosterish and sycophantic press coverage of the T5 opening; more or less comparing a fairly humdrum modern airport terminal to some sort of 8th wonder of the world.
2) the fact that T5 was built against condiderably regional opposition and will result in a further runway being built in a very poor position (after the MoT perjured itself saying the new terminal would not lead to a new runway...)

It's just one of those national "black holes", which every country has (See: "Luca's theory of national 'black holes'").

I reckon that within weeks it will be running at a "normal" (for Heathrow) pace.

futurecity
March 29th, 2008, 12:31 PM
Who paid for LHR T5? The Gov or BAA? Why did they spend 6billion on it, thats quite a lot!!!

Dr Pepper
March 29th, 2008, 02:39 PM
Who paid for LHR T5? The Gov or BAA? Why did they spend 6billion on it, thats quite a lot!!!

It was all paid for by BAA, now owned by the debt crippled Spanish company Ferrovial. I think even the extension of the London Underground was included in the cost.

newcastle kid
March 29th, 2008, 03:52 PM
Wow Gregory. Why do you hate London so much?

Unless I'm mistaken, Hong Kong airport had a very similar start when it opened. And now it is considered one of the best airports in the world. T5 will be running normally in no time, and people will be able to appreciate how good it is better. From what I saw from the stupid coverage on the news (you would think the country had just declared war on someone, this is about the only thing they have been showing) even the people who have been delayed seem to appreciate how good the actual building itself is.

London isn't falling behind anyone mate. And you saying it is, and starting this thread, and basically your attacks against London are just making you look either ignorant or jealous.

Meerkat
March 30th, 2008, 10:31 AM
^ Newcastlekid, you'll soon get used to his posts, he only has one subject of conversation, and evidently only one thought in mind (must be an interesting date). Far from being offended by old greggy's obsession, its becoming amusing: a couple of mishaps in the UK always bring him out of 'retirement' and you can bet money there will be a new thread.

Anyway, I'll be using T5 when i come over to the US in June - looking forward to it:).

By the way, troof is spealt truth Greggy, and Heafrow is actually Heathrow - got a lisp old boy? Never mind - no one's prerfect.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 30th, 2008, 09:58 PM
No one here has said that "I hate London" but Ill take it as a reflection of whats going on in your mind.

The reality is that this event was billed as the one BIG event in the history of what is universally regarded now as one of the worst airports in the world (excluding some in third world countries) to drag it back into the fold as a decent place to transit through.

It failed.

It was just a new terminal. Hong Kong was a whole new airport miles away from its old one (Ive used both) built on a island reclaimed from the sea so if any airport was going to have problems, Hong Kong would be it.

LHR T5 was built attached to 4 existing terminals of an awful airport and was billed, if we are to believe English press releases/propaganda, to be a first class terminal with great service that was to sweep away all those bad memories of Heafrow.

It didnt. It was a failure.

Maybe the problem was: that it was attached to four terminals of one of the worlds worst airports.

I wonder just how lucky (unlucky) one would have to be to travel through T5 instead of the other equally awful four terminals.

Nuff said.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 30th, 2008, 10:13 PM
An observation from readers of The Guardian :



"Consider British trains. The First Great Western paid 1 Billion pounds to the UK government for its 7-year license. This has assured the daily commuter hell for thousands of hapless victims to both government and corporate greed, as FGW seeks to recover its license fees and maximise its profit.
UK has uniquely converted its national infrastructure into a series of local private monopolies. The public has been converted into objects of extortion. The airport hell is there for all to see. UK public pays three to four times as much for their grossly sub-standard train service than anywhere else in Europe.
All this for what? UK public still pays taxes. In other countries you get infrastructure in return for your taxes. In this country you get taxed first, then exploited by private monopolies that operate in collusion with greedy government.
UK remains a feudal society. This is how its public infrastructure is organised.
And this country presumes to put itself forward as a model for the rest of Europe, for countries such as France, to follow?"


And another somewhat more pointed:

"Let's not avoid the truth here. The problem is Britain and the British people, and not politics or anything like that.
Look, you're a useless people when it comes to organizing things. Inefficiency seems to be the national value. The railways are an obvious example. Every time I visit Britain I am further amazed how how much crap Britons will put up with. The last time I was there, the rail companies shut down a large chunk of the network.... on the busiest holiday weekend of the year.
The last great piece of reliable technology made in Britain is probably the Supermarine Spitfire. Even that was an aberration. When I was a kid "British made car" was a synonym for "lemon".
If I go into a shop in the UK I practically have to smack a store employee in the face to get any service - half the time they are talking to their friends on a cell phone. British banks suck beyond belief, and ordinary goods are ridiculously expensive (rip-off Britain). If only Britons could understand that the purpose of a job is to create value for the community, and not to work out increasingly arcane rules for the benefit of the employee.
How you managed to con them into giving you the Olympics is beyond me, but I predict disaster. It's the same with the England football team. It has great players, but can't get organized to save its life.
You're a crap country and the Scottish will be better off on their own."

Read it for yourself here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/30/britishairwaysbusiness.theairlineindustry

Heaf Row. The Troof is out there.

Alonzo-ny
March 30th, 2008, 11:08 PM
Tripe.

Luca
March 31st, 2008, 02:57 AM
Turtle Bay indeed... :rolleyes:

Ooooh, ey've goh eh tertle-heed poking oot :D

You know we hadn't had an anti-British (or is it juts the English?) Tennen-Troll (tm) Thread in a while; I was beginning to miss it.

One of the less edifying aspects of having lived both in the US and the UK is the inability to suffer exposure to facile, uninformed criticism and stereotyping of one country by another.

nick-taylor
March 31st, 2008, 03:50 AM
Wow Gregory. Why do you hate London so much?

Unless I'm mistaken, Hong Kong airport had a very similar start when it opened. And now it is considered one of the best airports in the world. T5 will be running normally in no time, and people will be able to appreciate how good it is better. From what I saw from the stupid coverage on the news (you would think the country had just declared war on someone, this is about the only thing they have been showing) even the people who have been delayed seem to appreciate how good the actual building itself is.

London isn't falling behind anyone mate. And you saying it is, and starting this thread, and basically your attacks against London are just making you look either ignorant or jealous.One word: Jealousy. He can laugh all he likes about startup issues (of which there is no excuse for), but T5 is larger than any of New York's airports and has its own dedicated rail links to Central London - something that is almost magical when talking about New York.

In a months time the issues will be sorted and people will wonder what all the fuss was about, and he'll be the one left with the disjointed terminals and unable to get a one-seat train ride to Manhattan.

And to re-cap over other major terminal/airport openings:
- With Hong Kong's new airport the old airport had to remain open for a further 6months to handle the problems there. People were even told to avoid Hong Kong because the issues got so bad at one point
- Paris' latest terminal collapsed and killed several people
- At Changi's new Terminal 3 - an A380 rolled off the runway because of the new apron layout
- Madrid's Barajas airport also had similar baggage problems as Heathrow.

newcastle kid
March 31st, 2008, 04:46 AM
And another somewhat more pointed:

"Let's not avoid the truth here. The problem is Britain and the British people, and not politics or anything like that.
Look, you're a useless people when it comes to organizing things. Inefficiency seems to be the national value. The railways are an obvious example. Every time I visit Britain I am further amazed how how much crap Britons will put up with. The last time I was there, the rail companies shut down a large chunk of the network.... on the busiest holiday weekend of the year.
The last great piece of reliable technology made in Britain is probably the Supermarine Spitfire. Even that was an aberration. When I was a kid "British made car" was a synonym for "lemon".
If I go into a shop in the UK I practically have to smack a store employee in the face to get any service - half the time they are talking to their friends on a cell phone. British banks suck beyond belief, and ordinary goods are ridiculously expensive (rip-off Britain). If only Britons could understand that the purpose of a job is to create value for the community, and not to work out increasingly arcane rules for the benefit of the employee.
How you managed to con them into giving you the Olympics is beyond me, but I predict disaster. It's the same with the England football team. It has great players, but can't get organized to save its life.
You're a crap country and the Scottish will be better off on their own."

Read it for yourself here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/30/britishairwaysbusiness.theairlineindustry

Heaf Row. The Troof is out there.

Using comments that are equally as idiotic to back up your own claims doesn't do you any favors. "You're a crap country and the Scottish will be better off on their own." Seriously? Then make me happy and p*ss off out the union then, is what I say to that. I'd like to see how the scots do without the ENGLISH paying for their health care and free university education.

Greg, you call terminal 5 a failure, and it has been open less than a week. I'm sure in a few years time when everyone has forgotten about the problems (just like they seem to do with all the other airports)

T5 has been built, soon terminals 1 and 2 will be knocked down and replaced with Heathrow East, and both terminals 3 and 4 are being modernized. Heathrow will be one of the best airports in the world by the time the Olympics comes, and that will be just another thing that London has that is bigger and better than what most other places have.

newcastle kid
March 31st, 2008, 04:47 AM
And to re-cap over other major terminal/airport openings:
- With Hong Kong's new airport the old airport had to remain open for a further 6months to handle the problems there. People were even told to avoid Hong Kong because the issues got so bad at one point
- Paris' latest terminal collapsed and killed several people
- At Changi's new Terminal 3 - an A380 rolled off the runway because of the new apron layout
- Madrid's Barajas airport also had similar baggage problems as Heathrow.

Exactly. But when it suits people they conveniently forget...

Meerkat
March 31st, 2008, 02:13 PM
I wonder just how lucky (unlucky) one would have to be to travel through T5 instead of the other equally awful four terminals.

Nuff said.

Have the courage to stand up for your convictions - you do hate London and the English - admit it, whey else would virtually all of your posts say the same thing.

The problem is on this particular topic, had you simply pointed out that the opening of T5 was a fiasco, and not gone on to spam your usual anglophobic Stereotypes, most people may have agreed with you, myself included. You spoiled the effect by lacking any form of restraint, (as with your comments about the death of Heath Ledger).

It has been open just a few days now.

Yes the opening day was a fiaco.

It will settle in time - keep an open mind and don't write T5 off so readily.

Its not the end of the world - no one has been killed, and at worst a few thousand passengers (mostly on domestic flights) have temporarily lost their luggage, or their flights have been cancelled.

I consider myself lucky enough to travel through terminal 5 in two months, and i'm looking forward to it.

Nuff said :rolleyes:

futurecity
March 31st, 2008, 03:13 PM
One word: Jealousy. He can laugh all he likes about startup issues (of which there is no excuse for), but T5 is larger than any of New York's airports and has its own dedicated rail links to Central London - something that is almost magical when talking about New York.

In a months time the issues will be sorted and people will wonder what all the fuss was about, and he'll be the one left with the disjointed terminals and unable to get a one-seat train ride to Manhattan.

And to re-cap over other major terminal/airport openings:
- With Hong Kong's new airport the old airport had to remain open for a further 6months to handle the problems there. People were even told to avoid Hong Kong because the issues got so bad at one point
- Paris' latest terminal collapsed and killed several people
- At Changi's new Terminal 3 - an A380 rolled off the runway because of the new apron layout
- Madrid's Barajas airport also had similar baggage problems as Heathrow.

Nick, you're just as bad as Greg in an opposite way, and your current boasting about T5 is proof of it -- Bigger than any NY's airports (what?), we have the best rail, we have the best airports, etc, etc...on, and on.. What childish boasting, and all this comes out on your London project thread. Are you a little boy playing a mine is bigger than yours game?

All that comes out of your mouth is: London has this, New York hasn't, London has that, its the best, yadayada... You are an incredibly biased, arrogant and annoying poster. How bloody dare you come to a New York board and have the audacity to constantly brag about London and how much better it is and never ever return anything positive about the city where most of us here live. All you do is take, take take. I've hardly every heard you say anything positive about us here. Its always your silly childish attitude about your "perfect" city of London. No wonder people like Greg exist here to balance you out.

Your disugsting booterism is sooo tiring that I would rather you piss off and stay on Skyscrapercity and never come back. :mad::mad: You are ten times worse than any dubai fan boy.

futurecity
March 31st, 2008, 03:35 PM
and that will be just another thing that London has that is bigger and better than what most other places have.


Ooh, looky here. Another childish, arrogant snob, London centric remark. We are the London Overlords, we are the best, everything we do is better. Get out, I hope you are banned for being a complete **it. I never new the English were such snobby creeps.

Alonzo-ny
March 31st, 2008, 03:37 PM
FC you need relax. You are going way over the top with your reations at the moment. Your replies are childish. Grow up. In case you havent noticed this is the World forum so London is perfectly welcome here.

And another thing you have no right to tell people to leave the forum so give it up.

futurecity
March 31st, 2008, 03:51 PM
Relax? Oh, I see. I'm childish, right.. how dare you insult me. It sems to me that its now a crime to stand up for NYC? What are you, a lame NYer who sits on the sidelines content to endure this disgusting booterism and snobish behavior spewing from the keyboards of Nick Taylor and Newcastle Kid?

I'm sorry, but I do not like to see disgusting booterism and London centric remarks over and over again, as infinitum. I like London very much and the English and I'm impressed with their transport infrastructure and new developments, but I abhor snobbism. I would probably say the same to a NYer who was talking to the Londoners in a similar manner on a London forum. Didn't you see me defend T5 against Greg earlier? Its not as if I'm anti-English at all. In fact I praised the building in comparison to our own terminal.

However Mr. Taylor constantly acts in an arrogant way, admit it. He never ever says anything positive about NY while promoting London as if he's some kind of tourist board worker, or if its some kind of Shangra-la. Thats fine, but then he has the arrogance to constantly brag about it in comparison to NY, where most people on this board reside. Then he has the gall to constantly critisize NYC and laugh at us also, which is going too far. If your content to listen to his London-centric tripe, about how everything in London is sooo superior to NYC, well fine, but I'm not going to just sit here and take it.

This is a NYC forum and we will not just sit here like complete wall-flowers while these arrogant snobs take over. I'm not defending Greg, but I would like to see some restraint on behalf of the English here regarding their city - they come across as the little boasting children and its extremely annoying.

Alonso, stop acting like the "holier than thou" wise elder. If you are not interested in this argument, do not enter it. If you are, do, but please don't insult me when I am just pointing out that snobs and booterists shouldn't be tolerated for years and years, as they appear more like trolls than serious posters. You don't like my argument, fine. But calling me a child just shows how immature you really are, not me. Resorting to silly cliches like "grow up" is just another sign of this.

As you speak french -- "j'espere que vous serez plus gentille la prochaine fois, merci"

brianac
March 31st, 2008, 04:05 PM
I don't believe it.

I bet GT is laughing his ass off now.

Alonzo-ny
March 31st, 2008, 04:06 PM
Ok there were about 20 insults in there. We dont need you to police the boards telling everyone what they should do. Perhaps come up with an intelligent arguement to refute their claims instead of repeating the words snob and boosterism over and over. Your reaction is disproportionate to the posts by the others. Your acting like 'the londoners' are attacking the board and taking over, they are not, there are many intelligent people on the board to reply to any post but you arent doing your 'cause' any favours by acting so extreme.

futurecity
March 31st, 2008, 04:22 PM
Well, first of all Alonzo, you insulted me. Secondly, there is no argument to refute their claims. I can't say our airports are better or our rail system just as good as theirs, since its not true. Furthermore, I'm not going to dig into tons of data and try to open up a London v. NYC debate. The only point i'm trying to make is that these posters are often extremely one-sided, thats all, and that never changes. I would suggest a little restraint and ease up on the boasting and maybe practice a little more give-and-take. I ain't policing any board. Sorry for using the word snob, but when someone comes in and says basically "thats just another thing London has thats much better than most other places (which probably includes NYC in their minds), It just comes across as such.

Remeber, I came in here in defense of London against the silly anglophobe stuff from GT. Unfortunately, they preferred to over react with more of the same London-centric, anti NY tripe and I dislike that (sue me)

Thats all, I'm entitled to my opinion I believe.

Meerkat
March 31st, 2008, 04:57 PM
Sadly GT has done his worst again, and people are at each others throats.

What a shame.

NYC and London are two of the worlds greatest cities, no one can disagree with that.

Alonzo-ny
March 31st, 2008, 05:58 PM
As you speak french -- "j'espere que vous serez plus gentille la prochaine fois, merci"

Je demande que vous faites la meme chose a tout le monde.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 31st, 2008, 09:37 PM
I recently traveled through Heafrow but unlike the British readers who commented in the Guardian article, I don't have to and avoid Heafrow as a rule (preferring Copenhagen and flying SAS).

I really don't care what happens in London - I dont have to live there and endure the awful food and mentality, but I can say as a traveler who has seen airports on at least 4 continents that Heafrow Sux Harry Ballz.

And this event was supposed to fix that.

Hong Kong's new airport was built on land reclaimed from the sea and the whole terminal is built on huge shock absorbers miles away from the old airport - so of course they were going to have problems.

T5 was built right next to T1-4. Why the problems there?

Meerkat
March 31st, 2008, 09:46 PM
I really don't care what happens in London

Oh but you do, Gregory.

You care very much - or you wouldn't harp on about it so much.

It amuses me that of all the events / problems in the world at the moment - China's ruthless clampdown in Tibet, problems with the global economy, an estimated 3,000 babies a day dying from aids in Africa, global warming, the war in Iraq and threat from terrorism just to mention a few, you choose to start a thread about the great queation of our time.............. Terminal 5 at Heathrow and it 3 day old baggage handling problems.

No, you really don't care at all, do you.

nick-taylor
April 1st, 2008, 03:42 AM
Hong Kong's new airport was built on land reclaimed from the sea and the whole terminal is built on huge shock absorbers miles away from the old airport - so of course they were going to have problemsThe issues at HKIA were nothing to do with it being on land reclaimed from the sea; it opened late, way over budget and for the first few months was pretty horrendous to use because of the new technologies it was implementing.

Humanity has centuries of experience in reclaiming land, it doesn't have that when it comes to implementing new technologies hence the problems shared by Hong Kong and London, nobody will care or remember over the coming months, just like with Hong Kong, Paris, Singapore.....

Meerkat
April 1st, 2008, 04:08 PM
^ Hong Kongs airport isn't particularly special.

When i arrived there it hardly blew me away, i landed, collected my luggage and left.

Its just an average aiport, and i can't say i can remember much of the experience at all.

Heathrow is the busiest airport in Europe in terms of total passenger traffic, with 67 million annual passengers. Pretty impressive in my opinion.

In a few weeks the teething problems will have been forgotten, and we will be able to enjoy a wonderful addition to Londons architecture.

I'll post my experiences here, when i use it in 8 weeks time.

futurecity
April 3rd, 2008, 10:10 PM
Actually, thats not fair. HKIA is amazing and won the best airport of the year award last year. Its rippling domes of the main terminals roofline is very very nice as are its ample retail opportunities. Calling it an average airport is odd IMO. Its setting makes it more impressive than most other airports in the world also.

Meerkat
April 4th, 2008, 02:23 AM
What does IMO stand for - i don't know what it means.

After a 12 hour flight any airport would look average!!

As i said i can't remember much about it as i hadn't slept for 36 hours.

lofter1
April 4th, 2008, 10:26 AM
IMO = In my opinion

IMHO = In my humble opinion

Meerkat
April 4th, 2008, 12:37 PM
Its setting makes it more impressive than most other airports in the world also.

Yes, thats true, the setting is amazing, probably the most impressive of all the airports i've used.

I took a couple of photos as i was coming into land at Hong Kong, so i'll post them here when i get the chance - although you can hardly see the airport itself.

Gregory Tenenbaum
April 6th, 2008, 09:14 PM
Sadly GT has done his worst again, and people are at each others throats.

What a shame.

Settle the fvck down.

I already have a mother.

And she doesnt even carry on like you.

Nuff said.

Luca
April 7th, 2008, 09:59 AM
None of these airports (Heathrow T5, HK, etc...) look like much to me, architecturally. Large glass boxes with visible, sometimes curved steel beams. Yawn. ;)

Not very humane. Amogn modenr airports, the (smaller) Tenerife North airport (not the crappy old south one) is quite nice, a lot og nice wood detail in a thoroughly modenr building.

Had to fly through T4 the other day... it's half empty (more like 2/3rds) due to BA decamping to T5 and I still had to sit in the goshdarned plane for 25 mins waiting for parking space.

Gotta say, if the UK was all like Heathrow, I'd have to be in agreement with Tenebaum's spewing. I've got it!!! Greg was stuck once at Heathrow like the guy in the movie "The Termianl".....no wonder he hates Britain!! :D


I loved the surreal dig about bad food in London...:rolleyes: As we say in Italy: "from what pulpit doth the sermon issue?"

Meerkat
April 7th, 2008, 02:20 PM
Settle the fvck down.

I already have a mother.

And she doesnt even carry on like you.

Nuff said.

Maybe she should carry on like me.

You're abusive language doesn't do you any credit, but then again i guess you are an attorney.

Nuff said ;)

Gregory Tenenbaum
April 7th, 2008, 03:58 PM
I recall learning how to swear during a visit to London.

That and how to drink beer and watch footy.

What a glorious culture and to think that Heafrow is just the beginning!

Whats the latest news about Heafrow anyway?

Have they managed to introduce food thats actually edible yet?

Meerkat
April 8th, 2008, 12:32 AM
I've found some more maps showing the planned runway just to the north of Heathrow.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/about/strategy/whitepapers/air/coll_chapter11thesoutheast/dft_aviation_031504-9.gif

http://www.hillingdontimes.co.uk/_images/misc/heathrow/runway01.jpg

And the new terminal 5 itself

http://www.framearch.co.uk/t5/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/terminal-5.jpg


The busiest single destination in terms of passenger numbers is New York, with over 3.4 million passengers travelling between Heathrow and JFK / Newark airports in 2006.

Gregory Tenenbaum
July 10th, 2008, 02:11 PM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/jul/10/britishairwaysbusiness.heathrow

From the Guardian


Air travel: Terminal 5 still losing 900 bags every day

Passengers face one in 12 risk of missing luggage
Transfer flights hit by poor links to new terminal


Terminal 5 came in for renewed criticism yesterday after it emerged that passengers transferring between planes at Heathrow's troubled new 4.3bn building are losing more than 900 bags a day.
Trade union officials said T5's baggage handling system still needed improvement and travellers on connecting flights have a one in 12 chance of being separated from their luggage. Iggy Vaid, senior shop steward at the Unite union and a former T5 baggage handler, told MPs that 932 bags miss their onward journey from the terminal on a daily basis.
"If we change the process it will get better. We have to. There is no alternative," he said.
The baggage figures for passengers flying into Heathrow in order to catch a further flight, are still worse than for the rest of the airport, three months after the building's disastrous opening. According to Unite, 80 out of 1,000 bags on connecting flights from T5 do not get to their plane, against an average of 65-70 bags for the rest of the airport.
Steve Turner, Unite's national secretary for aviation, said the state-of-the-art automated baggage handling system at T5 was to blame. "That system is still in place and is still resulting in a significant number of bags not connecting with passengers."
The opening of T5 saw the cancellation of more than 500 British Airways flights after the baggage system failed. That cost the airline, the terminal's sole tenant, at least 16m.
BA said the main cause of lost transfer bags at T5 was flights arriving late because of runway congestion or delayed departures at other airports. However, Unite also blamed inadequate links between the building and BA's other terminals at Heathrow, meaning that bags arriving at Terminal 4 have to make a laborious journey to T5.
"There are lots of transfer bags landing in T4 and they have to be manually transferred to T5 because there is no mechanical system for loading the bags," said Vaid, who witnessed the T5 chaos at first hand as one of the BA baggage handlers in the building. BAA, Heathrow's owner, said a baggage link between T4 and T5 was under construction.
The Unite official's comments to the transport select committee alarmed MPs.
"Passengers will be surprised and disappointed to learn that there is still a one in 12 chance of losing their bags," said Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP for Kettering.
BA said T5's overall performance had improved significantly since the March 27 opening and the airport's overall missing baggage numbers had fallen since last year, with eight bags a thousand going missing. A BA spokesman said: "All major hub airports have issues in making sure that transfer bags travel between flights in the same way that transfer passengers do. This is due to the complexities of baggage procedures and how bags are moved through a series of security systems to get loaded on to their next aircraft."
Colin Matthews, BAA chief executive, told the committee that T5 is now "working well". He added: "It's not perfect. It's perfectly true that if an aircraft arrives late, transfer bags do not have a chance of making their connecting flight." He also agreed with MPs that the T5 opening had been "a national humiliation".
"Everybody was hoping and expecting a great performance and was deeply disappointed by our failure to do so."
Matthews said poor communication between BAA and BA had been the main cause of the fumbled opening.
BAA also contradicted BA's claim that small "teething problems" combined to cause the T5 crisis. Matthews said the biggest operational flaw had come at the end of the baggage handling process, when the BA staff who were to transfer luggage on to aircraft were not able to load the bags. As consequence, the baggage system soon overflowed and more than 20,000 bags were separated from their owners."


Seriously, the HeafRow Critique Bashers should just admit something isnt right about this "grand" airport.



Heaf Row


The Troof is Out There.

Meerkat
July 10th, 2008, 02:31 PM
Speaking as someone who has actually used T5 i was very impressed, not only by the building itself and the efficiency of service but also the courtesy of staff.

A very pleasant experience, and i look forward to using it again in the near future.

Gregory Tenenbaum
July 10th, 2008, 02:54 PM
Try to watch this without urinating in your pants with laughter

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F2TC2o0ZLAE&feature=related

Over engineered much?

The Troof is Out There.

Nuff said.

Chicago OHare has more passengers and doesnt have this problem.

Neither does Atlanta, which has even more passengers.

Both are international, just like LHR.

Who was saying that LHR was the worlds busiest?

The Troof Must be Out There - Somewhere

Meerkat
July 10th, 2008, 10:43 PM
^ Bladder problems eh Greggs? You can get special pads for that problem i hear.

Don't worry, the bathroom facilities are also very good at T5.

195Broadway
July 19th, 2008, 02:16 AM
http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/03/29/heathrow276.jpg

In my best Clockwork Orange: Bet they were all feeling a bit shagged and fagged and fashed, it being a night of no small expenditure, locating those baggies on that belty-welt.

Seriously, I'm sure it will all be sorted out. This story reminds me of DIA's teething pains.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver_International_Airport

Steven

Meerkat
July 19th, 2008, 11:58 AM
In my best Clockwork Orange: Bet they were all feeling a bit shagged and fagged and fashed, it being a night of no small expenditure



:D Now that's made me laugh.

I was watching that the other day, one of my favourite movies. I used to live very close to where some of it was filmed.

195Broadway
July 20th, 2008, 02:13 AM
Meerkat,
Yeah, it's one of my all time favorites also. I saw it in the movies when I was 8 or so. My friend's mom dropped us off in Madison NJ to see (as far as I can recolect) Bedknobs and Broomsticks. We promptly snuck over to "A Clockwork". Being that young, I can surely tell you that it was a real "eye-opener"! My friend was a real life version of Alex Delarge, as far as someone that young could be. He had absolutly no inhibitions what-so-ever. He's now a well respected heart surgeon. go figure. :rolleyes:

Tell us a little about the locations. Is there anything recognizable left to see now?

BTW, Coincidene?
http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o76/RubberPepper/yellowsubmarine-seaofholes.jpg
http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/03/29/heathrow276.jpg

Steven

Meerkat
July 31st, 2008, 10:16 AM
Yeah, it's one of my all time favorites also.

Tell us a little about the locations. Is there anything recognizable left to see now?






Part of it was filmed in Thamesmead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thamesmead) (the bit where 'dim' is kicked into the lake) which is relatively unchanged, and the prison was filmed at Woolwich barracks which i travelled past every day on my way to work. I lived about two miles south of the barracks until 3 years ago. The rest of Clockwork Orange was filmed at various locations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_orange_film) around London.

The books good too, but there's alot of slang used so it's not easy to follow.