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Codex
December 3rd, 2009, 11:01 AM
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November 29, 2009


Paris does the can’t-can’t as noise laws kill nightlife

http://www.go-travel-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/eiffel-tower-ruipereira.jpg

'Closed due to dead city. Please apply to the neighbouring capital'



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6936286.ece

Paris may attract more visitors than any other city, but after dark the City of Light risks becoming the Capital of Sleep unless something is done to perk up its nightlife, according to the latest French protest movement.

“We must do something or soon everyone interested in nightlife will be forced into exile in London or Berlin,” said Eric Labbé, an aficionado of electronic music who has launched a campaign to help to save the Paris club scene from extinction.

His petition has attracted 13,000 supporters who are appalled at a rigorous clampdown on noise and the closures of famous clubs. Part of the problem, says Labbé, is the growing intolerance of the increasingly bourgeois Parisians about noise after dark. This has resulted in the police imposing a “law of silence” on a city which was once hailed as a centre of nocturnal revelry.

Paris nightlife is becoming so dull, says the petition, that people in search of nocturnal thrills go to London and other European cities for fun. The point is made by a photograph attached to the petition which shows an announcement on a poster outside a club: “Closed due to dead city. Please apply to the neighbouring capital.”

Despite its age-old image as a beacon of hedonism, the golden age of Parisian nightlife was before the war, when writers such as Ernest Hemingway portrayed life in the city as one endless party.

The Moulin Rouge and its cancan girls have kept alive the idea of Paris as a city of fun, but supporters of Labbé’s petition lament that such institutions are only for tourists.

“Today we are a museum city,” said one. “There’s more excitement to be had in London or New York.”

A smoking ban in force since January is being blamed for complicating matters for nightclub owners as revellers spill onto the pavements to smoke and make noise.

Complaints from neighbours result in fines for clubs and several well-known nightspots have had their licences taken away, including Le Batofar, a nightclub ship moored on the banks of the Seine.

La Locomotive, a hallowed club in Pigalle where the Beatles and Rolling Stones once played, has gone bankrupt. It is to be taken over by the Moulin Rouge, which plans to turn it into a restaurant and shop.

The protesters, who will hand in their petition to the culture ministry at the end of the year, are demanding “tolerance zones” in areas known for their nightlife, an initiative that seems to have won support from Bertrand Delanoë, the mayor of Paris. He recently launched a bilingual internet website called Paris Night Life to promote the city after hours.

A “night-time competitiveness” study commissioned for the town hall showed Paris ranking fifth behind Amsterdam, Barcelona, Berlin and London.

“We want to revive the image of Paris by night,” said Jean-Bernard Bros, Delanoë’s deputy in charge of tourism.

The mayor had already attempted to pep up Paris with his Nuit Blanche initiative, an annual all-night art festival. Now he is considering organising soirées in cultural institutions such as the Pompidou Centre. Another idea is to appoint more officials, or “nocturnal ambassadors”, to find ways of boosting the city’s nightlife.

Conspiring against this is a lack of public transport after 1am, when the Paris Métro is closed and buses, let alone taxis, are few and far between.Driving anywhere after a drink is not the solution, either: in the new draconian Paris, even cyclists get breathalysed.






:)

Alonzo-ny
December 3rd, 2009, 11:29 AM
I visited La Locomotive a few years back. It was a great club. Shame it is being basically whored out to tourists.

Codex
December 3rd, 2009, 11:41 AM
I visited La Locomotive a few years back. It was a great club. Shame it is being basically whored out to tourists.

Le China is fairly decent. As for tourists you can't escape them in cities like Paris. :)

OmegaNYC
December 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM
Sad to see what is going on in Paris. I'm trying my hardest to go there next year. It would be really heartbreaking to see Paris loose its nightlife.

Fabrizio
December 3rd, 2009, 12:29 PM
I always remember complaints about Paris nightlife by some when comparing it to London. No matter what that article wants you to believe, it has always been a rather staid city. It has other joys. And I'll take Paris.

I'll bet a lot of the complaints are about stupid drunkeness... and most of that by boorish tourists.

The article offers no details on any noise laws, no specifics and no "other side" of the story.

Fabrizio
December 3rd, 2009, 01:04 PM
And the article should at least point out that Paris still remains the top tourist destination among cities... and France the first country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

Codex
December 4th, 2009, 07:34 AM
And the article should at least point out that Paris still remains the top tourist destination among cities... and France the first country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

Paris is a great city, it's culture, heritage and beauty is unsurpassed, and it is rightly one of the greatest tourist destinations in the world.

However many young people are just as interested in a cities nightlife and entertainment as it's culture and heritage, and it seems Paris is now falling behind Berlin and of course London, both of which are famous for their nightlife.

Ninjahedge
December 4th, 2009, 09:32 AM
This just tells me that the people living, and legislating, in Paris, are getting old.

There is merrit to regulating noise to sub-deafining levels in clubs (it is one thing to "feel" the base, but another to hear rustling silverware for hours after leaving a club).

But somehow moderation has never been known to the human race. We either revel in excess, or forbid it outright. In this case, you are either deaf, or forced to hear nothing.

antinimby
December 4th, 2009, 09:35 AM
This is hardly just a Paris thing. It has been happening in New York for a while now.

That quote about "more excitement to be had in...New York" is rather inaccurate these days. The city has become quite sleepy and generally more anti-partying, clubs, liquor licenses for restaurants and bars, and anything else deemed "disturbing" by the community.

Just ask our in-house club-goer, MidtownGuy.

Codex
December 4th, 2009, 10:03 AM
This is hardly just a Paris thing. It has been happening in New York for a while now.

That quote about "more excitement to be had in...New York" is rather inaccurate these days. The city has become quite sleepy and generally more anti-partying, clubs, liquor licenses for restaurants and bars, and anything else deemed "disturbing" by the community.

Just ask our in-house club-goer, MidtownGuy.

This phenomenon is not universal though, and many cities in Europe such as Berlin, London, Amsterdam, Belgrade, Prague, Madrid, Milan, Barcelona etc have a superb and growing nightlife scene.

Berlin -

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/reborn-to-be-wild-berlins-24hour-party-people-769246.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/germany/berlin/6500038/Berlin-the-party-goes-on....html

In terms of London, it was often regarded as expensive for foreign tourists however given the current strength of the Euro, London has now become a much more affordable city.




:)

antinimby
December 4th, 2009, 10:16 AM
I didn't say it was universal. I said it was happening in New York already.

In any case, I see these sort of things as children's toys and games, what might be new and exciting to one youngster might already be old and tired for another who's been at it before.

New York and Paris have had their fun (and games) and are simply now just bored of it all while some of the cities you mentioned may not have that sort of nightlife in the past so to them, it is fun and exciting.

Eventually though, they'll get over it as well and I wouldn't be surprised they too will legislate against the excessive noise and drunkenness that comes from all the partying.

Codex
December 4th, 2009, 10:26 AM
I didn't say it was universal. I said it was happening in New York already.

In any case, I see these sort of things as children's toys and games, what might be new and exciting to one youngster might already be old and tired for another who's been at it before.

New York and Paris have had their fun (and games) and are simply now just bored of it all while some of the cities you mentioned may not have that sort of nightlife in the past so to them, it is fun and exciting.

Eventually though, they'll get over it as well and I wouldn't be surprised they too will legislate against the excessive noise and drunkenness that comes from all the partying.

I disagree I think there is something sadly wrong when Parisians themselves are protesting, and cities which are just as historic such as Berlin and London rely very much upon their nightlife in order to attract a younger audience, in the same way Las Vegas relies on it's Casinos to attract it's target audience.

What needs to occur is a compromise with regard to the Parisian nightlife, and the fact that Parisians have now set up their own protest group must indicate that all is not well, and that perhaps the authorities have gone overboard in respect of the current clampdown on the cities nightlife.

Fabrizio
December 4th, 2009, 01:43 PM
Another view point (note the first paragraph says what I was saying):

City Hall Says Paris Nightlife Can't Be Dead, We Just Launched It
By Gary Lee Kraut

Parisians of the partying kind have long lamented the decline of the city’s nightlife. Those over 45 date the good ole days to the 1980s, those over 30 manage to cite a couple of highlights of the 90s, and those in their 20s simply criticize Paris for not being New York or Madrid.

In search for a reason for this decline, some will to point a finger at the 2008 smoking ban, as though it’s no fun meeting strangers unless you first spot them through a blue-gray haze. When that argument falls flat they will point not such much to the anti-libertarian non-smoking signs inside but to the signs outside inviting people to smoke quietly so as not to disturb the neighbors. Critics of a complacent night scene also cite the city’s attempts to starve the party beast with the enforcement of ordinances against drunken driving, amplified music floating up from cafes, drug use in clubs, and urinating in the street.

It’s true that a night of partying is much less fun if you have to think of designated drivers, acoustic guitars, rest rooms without drug dealers, and restricted outdoor peeing. In the latter case it’s worth noting out that the city began installing free, self-cleaning (itself not yourself) toilets this summer… and that few of them work.

What the critics fail to note is that Paris is increasingly a bourgeois living room of a city, so partying is not on the weekly agenda for the vast majority of Parisians. Furthermore, the increasing disposable income of typical Parisians means that they can afford to go away for the weekend. Basically, Parisians aren’t big partiers.

Still, the critics are wrong to say that nightlife has disappeared. While big 80s and 90s style clubs are no longer the attraction, Paris, the city of cafés, is now chock full of bars and pubs, or at least cafés that in the evening act as bars and pubs—i.e. friendly gathering places—as we might think of them. There are of course the ubiquitous Irish pubs, but more significantly there are now tons of cafés with music some evenings and café-bars. Most of these in the eastern and northern arrondissements (3rd, 10th, 11th, 18th, 19th, and 20th ). Jazz clubs still exist in the center of the Left and Right Banks.

Admitted, the economics of dealing in a bar that attracts 30 people on a given evening is not the same as in a club that attracts 500, and what fun is it to drink, even illegally, in the street if you can’t then break the bottle in the gutter? There’s also clearly something Big Brotherish about a city that requests people to smoke quietly, pee discreetly, and wear condoms, but at least this isn't London, where every pub- and party-goer is filmed in the street to make sure that he or she vomits only in the gutter.

I’ve chosen this moment to explain all this because the City Hall, having taken the criticism to heart, or at least to its tech department, and has just launched a website to list the (legal) possibilities of enjoying Paris after dark.

The site is called Paris Nightlife and is in English because no Parisian would think it the least bit cool if the title were in French. But since some of them still have problem reading English the site is also in French.

The site is in its infancy so there aren’t yet many venues listed, but this will presumably increase as businesses sign up to be listed. The City of Paris also invites them to sign a charter called “Fêtez Clairs” or “Clear Partying,” whereby they are expected to “create a healthy environment, prevent risky behaviors and reduce harms, [and] manage illegal behaviors”—so it might more appropriately be called Stay Clear of Partying.

Nevertheless, there are things to do after leaving a restaurant other than return to the 2x4 of your hotel or apartment.

Searches on Paris Nightlife can be made by arrondissement, by date or period, by type of venue, by type of music, and by type of audience. Among the types of audience (20-30 years old, 30+, 45+, etc.) it’s odd to find “business clientele” and “foreign visitors” listed, which is like finding a listing in Chicago indicating that certain bars are especially intended for New Yorkers or Texans.

In any case, Paris Nightlife can't possibly be dead... City Hall just launched it: www.parisnightlife.fr/index_en.php

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 02:29 AM
London does have CCTV, but so does New York and many other cities.

CCTV was first installed in London as a response to terrorist threats, and this is still amongst it's primary role, furthermore CCTV in central london has little to do with the licensing of clubs or London's nightlife, and is certainly not used to make sure people vomit in the gutter.

As for CCTV in Paris, Mr Sarkozy's pledged last autumn to follow London's surveillance lead. "I am very impressed by the efficiency of the British police thanks to this network of cameras," the French president said. "In my mind, there is no contradiction between respecting individual freedoms and the installation of cameras to protect everyone's security."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/3209808/Paris-to-quadruple-number-of-CCTV-cameras.html

Furthermore it is Parisians (read the article) who are complaning about their own nightlife, not Londoners or Berliners etc, and the original article points out that famous Paris Clubs have been closing, which points to factors beyond clamoing down on drink driving laws or urinating in public.

Finally it may be a good idea to keep this thread about Paris and not end up with a discussion about Berlin, NYC or London rather than Paris, which is the city the thread is actually about. Indeed certain forumers such as antinimby have raised concerns recently about threads going off topic and ending up about cities such as London.




:)

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 06:42 AM
Codex: I read the article too. It's full of holes and gives little insight.

First of all: "Furthermore it is Parisians (read the article) who are complaning about their own nightlife"

What the article says is that a "...petition has attracted 13,000 supporters". I don't know what that wording means in this day of internet social networking. Are these Parisians... was the petition signed? Was the petition presented to city hall? Where is this petition?... it really means nothing.

While some may be complaing about Parisian night life, I would bet that there are plenty more Parisians complaing about noise and drunkeness etc.

The smoking ban has now created another problem which is having people congregate out on the street. It is a new problem... a real one... and must be delt with.

Clubs close for a million reasons... we also happen to be in a recession... and most importantly: trends change. The mega club just might be out of fashion compared to the 80's and 90's.

Furthermore: Paris is still the worlds top tourist destination according to the World Tourism Organization.

And while tourism to France and Paris is rising... statistics for England and London show a decline.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

Alonzo-ny
December 5th, 2009, 06:48 AM
Yawn. This thread is about Paris. Even I, and I enjoy debating London, am getting sick of the constant pointless London references.

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 06:52 AM
Agreed. The article that opens the thread makes the London references. It is the article that is making the comparisons. Well, if comparisons must be made: I'll take an evening out in Paris.

If we are going to claim this:


... it seems Paris is now falling behind Berlin and of course London, both of which are famous for their nightlife.

Then I think some official statistics about who is actually falling behind might be in order.

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 06:57 AM
Agreed. The article that opens the thread makes the London references. It is the article that is making the comparisons. Well, if comparisons must be made: I'll take an evening out in Paris.

If we are going to claim this:



Then I think some official statistics about who is actually falling behind might be in order.

London Tourism is actually increasing -

http://www.flyingmatters.org.uk/2009/11/london-given-50m-tourism-boost/

http://www.visitlondon.com/about/

2009 has been a record year for British tourism with the strong Euro against the pound meaning London and the UK are much cheaper to visit at the moment than they were in previous years, secondly the recession has meant more British people are taking short breaks in Britain. Scottish tourism is also very strong, with cities such as Edinburgh have a thriving tourist trade.


:)

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 06:59 AM
Yawn. This thread is about Paris. Even I, and I enjoy debating London, am getting sick of the constant pointless London references.

I agree, I start and thread about Paris and end up having to defend London, this is crazy.

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 07:02 AM
The Evening Standard article says; "Boris Johnson today said..."

Sorry, but I'll take the statistics from the World Tourism Organization.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23770661-boris-johnson-ups-london-tourism-by-pound-50m.do

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 07:03 AM
I agree, I start and thread about Paris and end up having to defend London, this is crazy.


^ BS. Follow the thread.

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 07:07 AM
^ BS. Follow the thread.

Charming. :mad:

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 07:08 AM
The Evening Standard article says; "Boris Johnson today said..."

Sorry, but I'll take the statistics from the World Tourism Organization.



This year has been a very good one for tourism in the UK due to the strong Euro against the pound meaning London and the UK are much cheaper to visit at the moment than they were in previous years, secondly the recession has meant more British people are taking short breaks in Britain. Scottish tourism is also very strong, with cities such as Edinburgh have a thriving tourist trade.

http://www.blooloop.com/PressReleases/Tourism-Leisure-Visitors-provide-boost-to-London-s-tourism/1848

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/london-visitor-numbers-up/20097980



:)

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 07:11 AM
I'll take statistics from the World Tourism Organization. Thanks. As far as tourism goes, Paris is by far number one. And apart from London... England can't even hold a candle to Spain, France and Italy. But that's understandable. It's even surpassed by Germany.

Anyway as far as nightlife goes: NY too once had huge famous clubs. They are all closed. Trends change.

Alonzo-ny
December 5th, 2009, 07:15 AM
Fab, no one is interested. You brought up tourism in the UK. Which is irrelevant to Paris nightlife regardless if the article briefly mentions London has a better nightlife or not. How is increasing tourism in Paris affecting it's declining nightlife? And you don't need to bring up London and the UK to explain it.

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 07:24 AM
I'll take statistics from the World Tourism Organization. Thanks. As far as tourism goes, Paris is by far number one. And apart from London... England can't even hold a candle to Spain, France and Italy. But that's understandable. It's even surpassed by Germany.

Anyway as far as nightlife goes: NY too once had huge famous clubs. They are all closed. Trends change.


You can take the figures from whereever you want, although personally I would suggest British Tourist Board.


http://www.blooloop.com/PressReleases/Tourism-Leisure-Visitors-provide-boost-to-London-s-tourism/1848 (http://www.blooloop.com/PressReleases/Tourism-Leisure-Visitors-provide-boost-to-London-s-tourism/1848)

http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/london-visitor-numbers-up/20097980 (http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/london-visitor-numbers-up/20097980)

This is hilarious, the thread starts off about Parisian nightlife, and ends up with an attack on London and the UK, and to be honest I am not really bothered about the tourist trade in Spain or Italy, although I am somewhat confused as to what it has to do with Parisian nightlife. Let me state something - Paris is a great city and the last thing anybody wants is a decline in it's famous nightlife. Paris is a sister city to London and the Eurostar means that the two cities are just over two hours from each other by train, and are closer than ever in terms of a shared common bond.







:)

Fabrizio
December 5th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Follow the thread the comparison tone is set by the article.... which you posted:

“We must do something or soon everyone interested in nightlife will be forced into exile in London or Berlin,” said Eric Labbé,"

And specific comparisons to London where brought up by Codex: who wrote posts: #7, #10 etc.?

You are the one making silly claims that Paris is falling behind London. If you don't want London mentioned then why did YOU bring it up?

------------

British Tourist Board or World Tourism Organization. I'll take the latter. Thanks.

--

Codex
December 5th, 2009, 07:34 AM
Follow the thread the comparison tone is set by the article.

“We must do something or soon everyone interested in nightlife will be forced into exile in London or Berlin,” said Eric Labbé,"

And specific comparisons to London where brought up by Codex: who wrote posts: #7, #10 etc.

You are the one making silly claims that Paris is falling behing London. If you don't want London mentioned then why did YOU bring it up?

------------

British Tourist Board or World Tourism Organization. I'll take the latter. Thanks.

--


I also mentioned Berlin, Prague, Barcelona and a host of other cities which have a growing night life scene.

In the original article in 'The Times', it states that Parisians such as Eric Labbé, an aficionado of electronic music who has launched a campaign to help to save the Paris club scene from extinction said “We must do something or soon everyone interested in nightlife will be forced into exile in London or Berlin,” .

And just because I said the following in post 10 does not mean I am having a go at Paris -


In terms of London, it was often regarded as expensive for foreign tourists however given the current strength of the Euro, London has now become a much more affordable city.

As for the figures that show a 6% rise in London tourism this year (2009), you can please yourself whether you agree with them or not. In terms of the International figures you are quoting they are for 2006/2007/2008 and not 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

Finally in terms of tourism levels they are subject to numerous factors including exchange rates and economic conditions, which is why British tourists are looking beyond the Eurozone for holidays abroad this year as well as taking short breaks at home.




:)

Minato ku
December 8th, 2009, 04:05 AM
Honestly most parisian don't care of tourism. It represents a very small part of the economy and jobs. (Financial industry is far more revelent)
This is what many people should understand that Paris is not made for tourists.
We souldn't let the small minority of bobo and bourgeois transforming the center of our city in a museum only for tourist and weathy people.

Codex
December 8th, 2009, 05:34 AM
Honestly most parisian don't care of tourism. It represents a very small part of the economy and jobs. (Financial industry is far more revelent)
This is what many people should understand that Paris is not made for tourists.
We souldn't let the small minority of bobo and bourgeois transforming the center of our city in a museum only for tourist and weathy people.

:)

MidtownGuy
December 8th, 2009, 01:08 PM
We souldn't let the small minority of bobo and bourgeois transforming the center of our city in a museum only for tourist and weathy people.

Unfortunately NYC is facing the same problem.