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Daquan13
January 27th, 2010, 05:14 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota


Toyota Motor Corp, which is considered to be the world's #1 car maker, has announced a massive recall on at least 8 of its most popular late-model vehicles.

The reason being is because the company is saying that the gass pedal in the cars could become stuck in the pressed position, causing the affected vehicles to careen out of control and the person behind the wheel may not be able to stop the vehicles, resulting in what could be a very catastrophic accident!

A police officer & 3 of his family members were killed in an accident because in the vehicle he was driving, the gas pedal became stuck, causing the vehicle to careen out of control and accelerate to over 110mph!

Affected models and production (model) years are as follows;

1. 2009 - 2010 Rav 4.

2. 2009 - 2010 Corolla.

3. 2009 - 2010 Matrix.

4. 2005 - 2010 Avalon.

5. Certain 2007 - 2010 Camry.

6. 2010 Highlander.

7. 2007 - 2010 Tundra.

8. 2008 - 2010 Sequoia.


These affected year models have also been stopped on the production lines and Toyota has notified dealerships across the country to stop selling them until they can find a way to rectify the problem.

Stocks have already plummeted about 4%. Toyota says that it hopes to be able to offer a remedy for the problem soon.

If you have one or more of these affected models, you are asked to stop driving it immediately and notify Toyota or your dealership asap on what to do.

Ninjahedge
January 27th, 2010, 07:56 AM
Sucks, but I guess nobody has driven a manual tranny.

Even an automatic has a gearshift handle thingy........

But yes, this is bad. I wonder though, why are so many people flooring their gas pedals?

dtolman
January 27th, 2010, 09:42 AM
Wow! Whats left for dealers to sell? Priuses?

Chrysler dealers - take note - this may be the one time all year that you have someone to look down on and pity!

Glad I decided to get the '09 Civic over the '09 Toyota last year...

Daquan13
January 27th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Wow! Whats left for dealers to sell? Priuses?

Chrysler dealers - take note - this may be the one time all year that you have someone to look down on and pity!

Glad I decided to get the '09 Civic over the '09 Toyota last year...



Yeah, the Prius & Rotunda seems to be about the only vehicles not affected by the massive recall.

So glad that I'm driving an '01 Ford Crown Vic!

Ninjahedge
January 27th, 2010, 01:18 PM
I have noticed a significant ramp up in Toyota commercials.....


Maybe I am just noticing them more now.....

Daquan13
January 29th, 2010, 01:21 AM
You're right!

The co is still trying to push hard, saying that their vehicles like the Corrolla and others are still very reliable & safe. Slick little game they're playing!

But they already kicked themselves in the butt with that major announcement.

Critics are saying that it took Toyota years to try to fix a problem that is now manifested and grown to a fully-blown tragedy that's been waiting to happen for some time now! :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Daquan13
February 3rd, 2010, 05:05 AM
Info has now surfaced that over 46 million Toyota vehicles worldwide (half of them in the USA) are now affected by the recall.

Now the co's Prius model has also become a problem vehicle as well!

A problem with the brakes, some customers are saying.

The transportation secretary has made a public announcement that ALL owners of Toyota vehicles stopping driving them and take them to be modified or repaired! :eek:

Daquan13
February 4th, 2010, 05:14 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota

It IS official!

Further investigation HAS revealed that Toyota KNEW that there was a very serious issue and design flaw with the braking system in their Pruis cars, but the co did nothing about it and said nothing about it to the many customers who bought it!

Ninjahedge
February 4th, 2010, 07:52 AM
Corporate BS.

Well at least we know the Japanese learned SOMETHING from us.

Daquan13
February 4th, 2010, 05:28 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford


Not so fast;

Ford has now come forward and announced that 2 of their most popular vehicle models - the Fusion and the Milan might have issuse with THEIR breaking systems (Remember their Explorer SUV's had dangerous problems with the Firstone tires which would strip off during highway driving, causing a roll-over? People were killd because of that as well).

Seems that the brakes are showing problems due to faulty software.

In other developments, Toyota stands to lose about $2b because of the gas pedal recall.

This is beginning to sound like a pattern! :o

Daquan13
February 5th, 2010, 01:39 PM
And now, the Lexus- also made by Toyota, a somwhat luxury version of the Camry, is also under fire! The braking system has issues.

The hits just keep on coming! :eek:

dtolman
February 5th, 2010, 06:43 PM
...The breaking system has issues...


Your wrong is actually right here... they have issues with braking and breaking

Daquan13
February 6th, 2010, 12:27 AM
Your wrong is actually right here... they have issues with braking and breaking



Stop being a damn devil's advocate, you know damn well what I mean!

This is NOT a spell checker forum, and you're not a spell checker!

Ninjahedge
February 7th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Stop being a damn devil's advocate, you know damn well what I mean!

Damn.

dtolman
February 8th, 2010, 10:52 AM
Stop being a damn devil's advocate, you know damn well what I mean!

This is NOT a spell checker forum, and you're not a spell checker!

Grow a sense of humor, I was laughing with you, not at you.

I think that Toyota does have a larger problem than just "brakes". Thus I think "breaking system has a problem" is, ironically, a dead on observation of what is REALLY wrong at Toyota - quality control at the top is gone - the stop stuff from breaking system.

Daquan13
February 8th, 2010, 02:34 PM
Grow a sense of humor, I was laughing with you, not at you.

I think that Toyota does have a larger problem than just "brakes". Thus I think "breaking system has a problem" is, ironically, a dead on observation of what is REALLY wrong at Toyota - quality control at the top is gone - the stop stuff from breaking system.



I think that Toyota, and it has been proven, that the co KNEW about all of these problems years ago, but did nothing about them, and that they had mislead the dealerships and customers - shielding this damaging but important info from ever getting out to the public, so unbeknownst to millions, people thought that their cars were safe when in fact they really weren't.

Especially with the Prius.

Ninjahedge
February 8th, 2010, 03:08 PM
I forget which movie it was in, Tin Men perhaps, that mentioned something simple.

If you have 1 million cars on the road, and you discover a problem that will effect, on average, maybe 2000 and OF those 2000, only about 100 being serious, what would be the course to follow?

Pulling all 1 million off the road and reparing them would cost about, lets say, $1000 a car. We are talking $1B loss now. If 100 people die from this, even at $10M a shot, you are still breaking even. And that is not counting what your lawyers could get thrown out.

Sad thing is, it probably cost Toyota less money to keep it hush-hush and hope for the best than to say their machines COULD have problems and bring in ALL of them when only 0.2% will have problems.


Corporate mentality.

dtolman
February 8th, 2010, 03:31 PM
I can never pass up a Fight Club quote, especially when its relevant:


Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

Daquan13
February 9th, 2010, 04:59 AM
The Prius models have been recalled overnight.

kz1000ps
February 9th, 2010, 04:35 PM
I guess when it rains it pours....

Toyota Corolla steering problems prompt complaints to Feds (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/toyota-corolla-to-be-probed-for-steering-problems/1)

kz1000ps
February 9th, 2010, 04:53 PM
So how do you guys think Toyota will fare from all of this?

Are they in for a period of severe contraction like what happened to Audi in the late '80s and early '90s? Audi had to respond to similar concerns over "sudden unintended acceleration" in '86 and saw their sales drop from 74k in 1985 to 12k by 1991. I don't think anybody expects dramatic results quite like that, but how big will the drop be? How long will this drop last? Audi was basically out of the game for a decade.

EDIT: Business Week (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/audi-s-1980s-scare-may-mean-lost-generation-for-toyota-sales.html) covered most of what I just said.

Who stands to benefit the most? Honda? GM? Ford? Hyundai? The last two already have serious momentum on their sides, and I imagine this will continue their winning streaks for at least the next couple years.

lofter1
February 9th, 2010, 05:37 PM
Why would anyone now shopping for a car opt for a Toyota?

Many other comparable choices are available -- and without the potential problems.

This is going to hurt Toyota bad, and will take a few years (at the least) for them to recover.

Fabrizio
February 9th, 2010, 06:03 PM
It's great news for the US auto industry and happening just when GM and Ford finally have some valid car lines. It is also good news for Chrysler making it's reentry next year. And IMHO it will make those government bail-outs easier for the public to accept: it wasn't such a lost cause after all...

--

lofter1
February 9th, 2010, 06:16 PM
And the American brands are looking better than they have in years:

GM (http://www.gm.com/vehicles/)

Ford (http://www.fordvehicles.com/)

Chrysler (http://www.chrysler.com/en/)

dtolman
February 9th, 2010, 06:33 PM
Why would anyone now shopping for a car opt for a Toyota?

Many other comparable choices are available -- and without the potential problems.

This is going to hurt Toyota bad, and will take a few years (at the least) for them to recover.

I looked at several new Toyotas when car shopping over the past few years - I really haven't liked much of their designs since 2006 (I opted for a 2006 Camry over a 2007 - good choice I guess).

When I'm looking, Honda and Ford are the only two I'm really considering now - both making excellent cars inside and out.

Daquan13
February 9th, 2010, 07:05 PM
Toyota says that the Prius model can be repaired in only 40 minutes by merely reprogramming the vehicle's onboard computer with new software, which would help rectify the problem with the ABS braking system so that it would respond better when stepping on the brake pedal.

Customers are contemplating filing class-action lawsuits against the co for knowingly hiding cruicial info that could have saved lives and could have caused less headaches and accidents.

I strongly suspect that they'll be filiing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection before too long.

195Broadway
February 9th, 2010, 07:29 PM
Why would anyone now shopping for a car opt for a Toyota?


For the possibility of getting a great car at a big discount due to mass hysteria.

Daquan13
February 9th, 2010, 09:40 PM
Toyota;

T O Y O T A
To Operate Yet Offer Terrible Automobiles! :p

kz1000ps
February 9th, 2010, 09:53 PM
And the American brands are looking better than they have in years:

Ahem..... Chrysler is looking better than it has in years? I'd say they're still on life support and will be thru 2012.

dtolman
February 9th, 2010, 10:28 PM
I strongly suspect that they'll be filiing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection before too long.

A fine bit of Hyperbole, but the worlds biggest automaker could send out turkeys for years to come, and they still wouldn't be close to bankruptcy.

Just look at GM - they did it for decades before everything fell apart.

Daquan13
February 10th, 2010, 03:09 AM
Well, I don't think that they're in the #1 spot now.

They got an awful lot of mopping up to do! They'll need to try to restore the faith & trust into the customers they once had, if they can do that at all. :eek:

Daquan13
February 10th, 2010, 08:06 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda


Add Honda to the list.

A report came out on THEIR vehicles early this morning.

Something about a dangerous problem with the air bags' inflation system.

The hits just keep on coming!

195Broadway
February 10th, 2010, 12:33 PM
^
The news media milking the last bit out of the lucrative Toyota story. We're going to hear about every make's leaky valve stems for a while.
They do the same thing when a plane crashes.

Daquan13
February 10th, 2010, 03:24 PM
Seems that the media just can't wait to get its hands on juicy news.

But also, the co's involved should have at least tried to come correct the first time around, and there probably would not have been all this mass hysteria flying all over the place like wildfire!

First it was the auto makers here asking for stimulus money to help them stay afloat last year. Now THIS. I wonder what might be in store next. :(

scumonkey
February 10th, 2010, 03:28 PM
mass hysteria flying all over the place like wildfire!
:confused:

Daquan13
February 10th, 2010, 04:12 PM
Figure it out.

scumonkey
February 10th, 2010, 04:27 PM
You made the statement now back it up...
Just where exactly is all this mass hysteria taking place at (with the exception of your posts)-
I sure don't see any:confused:

Daquan13
February 10th, 2010, 11:57 PM
You know what the hell is going on, so if you can't undestand it, then that is YOUR problem. Don't come here starting up crap and then call yourself wanting an explanation.

Figure it out yourself! :mad:

scumonkey
February 11th, 2010, 12:06 AM
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01574/toyota1_1574714c.jpg
Toyota Motor Corp President Akio Toyoda Photo: REUTERS

Ninjahedge
February 11th, 2010, 10:44 AM
Daq, chill.

Scum is just asking "where is the mass hysteria"?

Mass hysteria would implicate riots in the streets surrounding Toyota dealerships, a plummeting of their stock price, and an overall sense of doom partnered with overt and possibly violent acts.

He has not seen that, so he is calling you on it. No need to get defensive. He is not disagreeing with you on most of what you said, but is just questioning you on your use of a superlative descriptor to describe something that seems to be getting a lukewarm, albeit universal, reaction.

"figure it out" is NEVER a way top get a civil discourse started! You threw down the challange, although, admittedly, Scum was a bit vague in his questioning on his first post. Asking him to explain would have been better than throwing it back at him.

This ain't SSP.com man!!! ;)

Daquan13
February 11th, 2010, 11:23 AM
Mass hysteria probably comes in many forms, though this is not a violent one.

The customers in particular, are pretty mush hysterical or outraged, and I would be also, if I had one of those vehicles, that theirs lives are in danger once they get behind the wheel of one of those affected vehicles.

You'd be as well, don't you think? I'd be fuming.

But like I said, those co's should have manned up about this snafu long time ago, not wait until innocent people are maimed or killed because of something that they are soley resonsible for. :(

Bob
February 16th, 2010, 11:27 PM
I do think this Toyota thing is a bunch of hype. Recalls are common. Owners are notified. Appointments are set up. Things get fixed. Life goes on.

Speaking of recalls, I'd like to recall that new vehicle, The Cube, for being so darned ugly.

Daquan13
February 17th, 2010, 04:01 AM
Also, the Matrix. That vehicle is so damn ugly!!

Ninjahedge
February 17th, 2010, 07:58 AM
I do think this Toyota thing is a bunch of hype. Recalls are common. Owners are notified. Appointments are set up. Things get fixed. Life goes on.

Speaking of recalls, I'd like to recall that new vehicle, The Cube, for being so darned ugly.


Looks like a giant air purifier... or video game consooooooooh!!!!



I get it.

ZippyTheChimp
February 17th, 2010, 09:11 AM
More problems for Toyota? (http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/toyota_lawnmower.html)

Daquan13
February 17th, 2010, 11:51 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota


Actually, Toyota IS REALLY having more problems.

Its most popular vehicle, the Corolla, has been found to have even MORE problems, and they are deeply considering stopping production of this particular model. This time, it's about the power steering.

Meanwhile, the president / CEO of the co, says that he will not attend the hearing set up to invesigate the evidence leading up to the massive recall.

What a copout HE turned out to be!

195Broadway
February 17th, 2010, 12:23 PM
Do they manufacture these cars in Salem?

Ninjahedge
February 17th, 2010, 12:49 PM
I think they learned too much from FORD.......

Daquan13
February 19th, 2010, 08:11 AM
Now the CEO has changed his mind and has decided to attend the hearing.

Says that he wants sympathy and understanding.

But how does he have the audacity to want that when he KNEW about the design / safety flaws and deliberately hid them so that no one else would find out? :(

Ninjahedge
February 19th, 2010, 09:03 AM
It's nice to know that the Japanese can learn something from the Americans!

:crosseyed:

Daquan13
February 19th, 2010, 09:24 AM
Yeah, but sometimes they can be stubborn, bullheaded and hard to get along with.

I just don't get the reason why a multi-billion dollor car co such as Toyota would knowingly hide safety issues like that in their vehicles and continue to go on like nothing has ever happened. :(

kz1000ps
February 19th, 2010, 05:48 PM
http://richardwiseman.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dollar-sign.jpg

I agree with Bob though. 8+ million vehicles is a lot, and the appearances of a cover-up are disturbing, but my opinion of a Toyota vehicle's quality and reliability really hasn't changed much, and I suspect this is the same for a lot of people. Even if their quality has slipped a bit, it's still very, very good. At the very least, their cars are nowhere near having the blatant quality control issues Detroit had in the '70s.

ForestHillsGardens
February 22nd, 2010, 08:42 PM
Well obviously, Toyota has failed to realize the problem earlier and have it's problems with reacting to the problem due to the companies decades of smooth operation, as well as they kinda ignored it to save money while I do not think money should be a leigt reason making it look like a 'cover-up'. I believe this recall will shake up the company while also telling them to also improve their Quality Check division. Either way, my opinion has not changed about the company and it's cars, American Car Companies and German Car Companies are still not so good in my opinion, their Quality Check division also needs plenty of improvements.

Daquan13
February 25th, 2010, 06:05 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai

Add Hyundai to the list. It's done a recall on all of its 2010 Sonatas. Something about the air bag system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler

Chrysler began a recall on its mini vans. Same thing, I believe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hummer

Hummer vehicles are about to go out of production.

They have lagged in sales and are not popular now because it's been said that they are gas guzzlers. :eek: :eek:

dtolman
February 25th, 2010, 09:57 AM
I hate to break it to you... but there are hundreds of recalls every year from every manufacturer.

Its really not that unusual. The only thing unusual about this is how obviously dangerous it is... usually the defective cars kill drivers in more subtle ways.

ZippyTheChimp
February 25th, 2010, 10:13 AM
http://www.freshlydead.com/images/graphic_design/carl_sagan.jpg

Recalls aplenty (http://www.mycarstats.com/)

Daquan13
February 25th, 2010, 03:14 PM
You're right, but you'd think that the billions & billions would occur over the last few decades, not in the seemingly record time that this has been happening.

Since Toyota came forward with their monster recall, it seems that other co's are starting to man up and admit to THEIR blunerous mistakes and mishaps as well.

But IMHO, I've never seen THIS many. :eek:

ForestHillsGardens
February 25th, 2010, 07:37 PM
Well, I believe Toyota was the first vehicle company to issue a mass recall this year because of acellerator and brake problems, then comes steering wheel and such. While GM, Ford and Honda did recalls in the background with like issues, as well as Chrysler and Hyundai now. It seems to me that all of the companies (not only Toyota) ignored this for a long time and now it happens, just bad luck for Toyota. I do think that the US government should stop concentrating on one company and really give a shake up to other companies.

195Broadway
February 25th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Toyota Center Houston: http://www.toyotacentertix.com/events/event_978.php I'm really looking foreword to this.

Ninjahedge
February 27th, 2010, 10:31 PM
It just sounds like a case of sloth and pride.

First, no-one taking the initiative to say "HEY!!!!! Look at this!" and then when it DOES come to the top brass' attension, it is all "Well, we are doing everything, it was the floor mat, there is nothing wrong, we love you, ok we're sorry".

They would have saved billions if they got to the bottom of the issue FIRST before offering band-aids on the wrong knee.

Daquan13
March 2nd, 2010, 06:12 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors


Add GM to the list.

A few models of their small compact cars have been recalled due to power steering problems. Says that the power steering motors can crap out.

But the co claims that customers are in no immediate danger and can wait for repairs to be made.

Ninjahedge
March 2nd, 2010, 07:56 AM
Quick news: Toyota expected to announce double digit drops in sales compared to last Feb (the first Feb since the recession started).

Not good news for them, but hopefully that will mean the 2011 models will be at a nice discount!! ;)

Daquan13
March 2nd, 2010, 09:39 AM
Recent pols were taken, and it says that some of the customers who bought vehicles made by Toyota before, wouldn't trust them again.

I think it's an embarrassment to the co, and even though it is trying to rebuild its image and is trying to stay afloat, they are going to have to suffer big time from this
hiding of their responsibilities like never before.

Ninjahedge
March 2nd, 2010, 09:40 AM
Opinions change when money is involved Daq.

Daquan13
March 2nd, 2010, 09:49 AM
Of course they do. No argument there.

They're on the verge of losing millions, maybe billions.

I'd NEVER buy a car made by them again, and I've had quite a few used Toyota models made by them. They all worked like new. I used to think that they were some of the best vehicles around. Now I wouldn't give a crap if I never again bought a Toyota vehicle. :mad:

Hof
March 2nd, 2010, 11:33 AM
About twelve years ago I bought a used, 1992 Toyota Supra. It had 38,000 miles on it. I had paid a princely sum for a seven year old, used car-- $21,000 ( they were $40K brand new)-- and I had traded in a perfectly good Nissan 300ZX for it. The goal was to own one of Toyota's best ( and fastest) models. It was red, quick and rare and I was filled with that new-owner hubris. I made the trade with a great amount of self-inflicted security, basing my choice on the persuasive and common idea that Toyota's products were as near-bulletproof as cars can be.

The first night I owned the car I had parked it in front of my apartment, and as I made my way to bed that night I stopped for a moment and took a quick, prideful look at my new car from the kitchen window. That's funny, I thought...there was a strange red glow coming from it. I went outside to investigate and found the 3rd brake light was fully ON, glowing cherry red in the dark parking lot. I tinkered with it a few minutes and couldn't find a reason for the light to be on, and not knowing what else to do I disconnected the battery, hoping to prevent a power drain.

Then, the REAL problems started.

The next morning I reconnected the cable and went to work. A couple hours at the job and I suddenly remembered that the brake light was probably on, so I went down to disconnect the battery again. The car didn't start-- the battery had been drained to death. The Auto Club got me going again and I took the car back to the dealer. He pointed to a small, plastic plunger located beneath the brake pedal-- it activated the 3rd light and was clogged with debris, causing it to stick. A simple problem.
He fixed it and I went home.

The next day, the battery was once again dead. I missed work, got the Auto Club out to jump it yet again and took it back to the dealer. He replaced the battery, but then I noticed that the passenger window would not go down, and that the A/C, which worked fine when I bought the car, was not functioning. Then the cassette player ate one of my favorite Springsteen tapes and would not release it.

I took it to a friend who knows something about cars and he told me that the automatic climate control panel was fried, so he rigged an alligator clip from the battery to the A/C compressor, making it work again. The thing was, in order to turn the A/C OFF, I had to get under the hood and disconnect the clip. Otherwise, the A/C was always on, further draining the battery. If I wanted A/C, a daily need in Florida, I had to open the hood and re-connect, something I found myself doing three, four times daily, often in the rain.
Once in awhile, I'd forget about the clip, necessitating another jump from AAA.

I went back to the dealer again and he told me that the climate control panel was a $600 unit and that he would not replace it since I had tinkered with it, and that his 30-day used car "warranty" did not cover such things as radios or power windows. He told me that I had fried the car's "brain" by repeatedly disconnecting the battery. I was stuck with it.

Soon, the power seat controls failed, the dasboard lights flickered on and off, the battery was constantly draining and one of the tires grew a bubble in the sidewall. Despite continuous complaints to the dealer, he refused to handle the problems, so I was resigned to living with a car that presented approximately one NEW problem per week.
The car was constantly bucking and spitting and the engine would often just quit when I stopped at traffic lights. It was not just filled with inconvenient electrical problems--now it was downright DANGEROUS.

The clincher came about a month into my ownership. On a brief, out of town trip the fuel pump (located inside the gas tank) failed during a thunderstorm, stranding me on the side of the road-- 150 miles from home. I spent an angry night in a seedy motel and had the car towed to a country mechanic, who repaired it and charged me $475. Total cost for my weekend trip was near $600, PLUS another day off work. I realized that I had spent 21 grand for a LEMON and I was very close to losing my job!!!

The next day I called my attorney. He called the dealer and threatened a lawsuit. After a few hours of negotiation the dealer caved, agreeing to take the car back. My old Nissan was still on his lot, so he said he would transfer the title back to me and would take the Supra back. My lawyer and I went by the used car lot. (Wisely, he drove there in his own car).
I showed the dealer how to connect and disconnect the A/C, told him to NEVER lower the passenger window and said he could have my Springsteen cassette if he could get it out of the radio. I gave him a sheaf of repair receipts, attesting to the enormous expenses I incurred since driving the POS Toyota off his lot. At my lawyer's gentle urging, and after 3 hours of negotiations, he also wrote me a check for $2100 to cover my sales taxes, license fees and out of pocket expenses and $350 cash to cover the one payment I had made on the loan. I also demanded that he fill the Nissan's gas tank-- which he did with great reluctance.

When he got into the Supra to move it to his garage, it did not start. I had forgotten to disconnect the alligator clip and the A/C had been silently running all that time. The new battery, which he had supplied, was dead.
I LOVE irony.

I owned the Toyota for a month and had spent nearly $1500 in repair costs, motel charges--and $300 for attorney fees. The Auto Club didn't want to know me. I had also missed 4 days of work and had been stranded in East Jesus more than once. Any thoughts of Toyota's reputation for rock-solid reliability were banished from my mind.

The Nissan ran perfectly for a year more, when I finally traded it in for a new, 2000 Maxima.

I have never considered owning a Toyota again.

Daquan13
March 2nd, 2010, 01:16 PM
Right now, Ford seems to be the only vehicle maker to have very few or no recalls. I think that there were one or two though. But small. :)

ablarc
March 2nd, 2010, 01:26 PM
^ Bridgestone tires on the Explorer: do you remember that?

Ninjahedge
March 2nd, 2010, 02:17 PM
In all fairness, that was a Bureaucratic boneheaded blunder.

If they inflated them to the correct pressure nothing would have happened, but in order to make their TRUCK ride more like a luxury sedan, they underinflated the tires.

The only thing about Ford is that they rode their own name into a ditch. They relied on people's loyalty to sell a truck brand that kept cutting corners in order to make a cheaper vehicle.

One example is with an engine they wanted for one of their SUV's. The maker of the engine required a certain standard for the mountings (so it could handle the torque produced and not fatigue the mountings or produce unwanted deflections that could generate unwanted stress on misaligned parts).

They changed the design a bit, but still fell well short of what was needed.

Their solution? They bought out the company and put the engine in the underdesigned vehicle.

Would this prove to be a catastrophy? No. Things like this just reduce performance and durability (remember "Ford Tough?"), but produce better numbers in the short run.

It is really a shame that many buisnesses follow that model.



Just think how much $$ Ford could have been making today if they had continued to develop, in small scale, their electric car line? As it is, they are playing catch-up to Toyota on a lot of things in that regard....

Daquan13
March 2nd, 2010, 08:11 PM
Ablarc, yeah, I remember it.

But that was a few years ago, wasn't it?

I'm sure that there were a lot of class-action lawsuits stemming from it.

But it was just the tires, not the vehicle itself, I think.

Guess ALL of them have or have had skeletons in their closets.

kz1000ps
March 3rd, 2010, 02:49 AM
I have never considered owning a Toyota again.

Your loss.

My parents have been buying nothing but Toyotas since 1989 (save for one seriously bad call on my dad's part that resulted in a '93 Chevy Astro), including the most recent purchase, a 2010 Tacoma. None have been anything approaching "unreliable."

When my '90 Corolla All Trac wagon got totalled in 2003 (not my fault) it had about 173k miles on it and everything still worked beautifully. The only nagging problem it ever had was exhaust leaks. I still miss that car to this day.

I say all this not because I'm a mindless fanboi, but because it seems overly clear to me that your case is the exception, not the rule. Did you get to see the Supra's maintenenace and repair log before buying?

Daquan13
March 3rd, 2010, 05:32 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan


Add Nissan to the list.

Info has just surfaced that Nissan has come forward to announce that some of their small cars, SUV's and other vehicles have mechanical problems and has issued recalls on them.

The recall on some 540,000 certain models are to fix brake pedals and gas guages. The brake pedal recall affects at least 179,000 vehicles in the US and about 26,000 in the Middle East, Canada, Russia and several othe countries.

Certain '08 to '10 Nissan Titan pickups. Infiniti QX56 and Nissan Armada Sports Utility Vehicles and some '08 and '09 Quest minivans are being recalled.

So far, the Maxima, Altima and Sentra are not on the recall list.

The hits just keep on coming!

Ninjahedge
March 3rd, 2010, 08:49 AM
If you look long enough you will find that every car MFR has had recalls of one type or another.

I guess the lesson here is to do your research on the make AND model before buying, and to listen for any problems that may surface after being released to the general public.

Like software, no matter how much you test the "beta", there are going to be bugs for some people. The key is, how life threatening are they, and how well does the company handle it?



KZ - I think the key for that Supra was that he bought it used. I think that that dealership was shady. But aren't we all aware that some used car dealerships are like that?

Daquan13
March 3rd, 2010, 10:36 AM
I think I heard on the news this morning, that the remaining family members of the police officer and the 3 other family mrmbers who were abruptly killed in that horrific Toyota accident because of a stuck gas pedal, has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the car maker.

Chilling audio just before the accident was played. You could here the blood-curdling screams of the driver and the passengers when the vehicle began speeding up and they couldn't stop it. Almost like passengers in a doomed plane that is about to crash! :eek:

Daquan13
March 9th, 2010, 05:44 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota

More Prius problems for Toyota

Info has surfaced that 61-y-o James Sykes, who has a heart condition, was driving a Toyota Prius on a San Diego freeway when he lost his braking power and the vehicle went out of control going about 90mph and it couldn't be stopped until a state trooper took action and put his cruiser in front of the car to slow it down and stop it. Sykes had called 911 for help.

He said that the gas pedal got stuck into the accellerating postition. He was on his way to taking the vehicle for repairs, but he was also told that his vehicle is not on the recall list.

Totota is looking into the near-tragic mishap.

Ninjahedge
March 9th, 2010, 07:57 AM
Most people when having this particular problem in the past were found to have, in their panic, stomped on the gas, not the brake, in their attempt to slow down.

I would not be surprised if some of these incidents were just that.

Also, is it just me or does anyone else find it weird that all these people have the clarity of mind to be able to use their cell phones when this is happening, but nobody has thought to take the car out of gear or switch off the ignition? :confused:

ablarc
March 9th, 2010, 08:20 AM
switch off the ignition...
Lose your steering?

Ninjahedge
March 9th, 2010, 09:31 AM
Lose your steering?

Lose your life?

You turn off the ignition, then put it partially forward to unlock the wheel.

Daquan13
March 9th, 2010, 10:22 AM
The Prius, in this case, has no ignition, according to Toyota.

Instead, it has buttons to start and stop the engine.

Sykes was pressing with all his might on the brake pedal, even to the point of trying to turn the engine off, but it didn't seem to help.

Even when the pads on the brake shoes wore off and he could hear the chilling noise from grinding metal, the car wouldn't stop! He was also deathly afraid of losing his power steering.

After that, he said that he will NEVER drive that car again.

dtolman
March 9th, 2010, 02:44 PM
Lose your life?

You turn off the ignition, then put it partially forward to unlock the wheel.

The recommended procedure is:
1) Hit the brakes. Assuming you have working brakes, one hard pump should be enough to stop even with the engine at full throttle.

2) Shift into Neutral (disengage the engine)

3) Turn to acc-off as last resort (which won't lock the wheel)

Ninjahedge
March 9th, 2010, 03:22 PM
It is so foreign to me after driving a manual for 15 years that the idea of "neutral" is so foreign to people......


Now, otoh, if this is an electronic control system that does not have ANY mechanical parts in direct control, well.....

Then they are phillips-headed.

Daquan13
March 9th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Every vehile that I ever drove, including trucks, were always automatic. I learned to drive on automatic.

Daquan13
March 9th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Eighty-nine class-action lawsuits have how been filed against Toyota so far, and that doesn't even include wrongful death lawsuits yet. :eek:

lofter1
March 9th, 2010, 10:40 PM
Everyone should learn to drive in a car with a manual transmission. Very easy then to learn to drive an automatic. But if one learns on an automatic then the manual will always seem alien.

Ninjahedge
March 10th, 2010, 07:54 AM
Every vehile that I ever drove, including trucks, were always automatic. I learned to drive on automatic.

So did I.

I just learned how to drive Manual and have been doing so for 15 years.....

Makes Automatic driving kinda boring, AAMOF......




As for the lawsuits, we will see what happens with that. Siting the number of lawsuits involving a highly publicized matter is not a good indication of how serious it is in todays world.


Also, what % of vehicles sold would that make it? What would be the net cost to the company versus the net profit made during those same years?


Reminds me a bit of Tin Men....

Daquan13
March 10th, 2010, 09:43 AM
An elderly woman yesterday, had accidentally crashed her Rav4 into a small building that contained a doc's office.

Her daughter said that she had just took the vehicle to to a repair shop for repairs. They are both blaming Toyota, saying that the vehicle's maker is at fault.

The woman's foot was still on the pedal, but she was knocked out, indicating that the vehicle may have a faulty gas pedal.

She was issued a citation by the police who said that she failed to use caution just before the crash.

Ninjahedge
March 10th, 2010, 11:34 AM
The woman's foot was still on the pedal, but she was knocked out, indicating that the vehicle may have a faulty gas pedal.

Um, that could also indicate she paniced and hit the gas instead of the break.

There have been many documented cases of that in the past Daq....

ZippyTheChimp
March 10th, 2010, 11:50 AM
Everyone should learn to drive in a car with a manual transmission.Doesn't matter which you do first. For some, it might be easier to concentrate on the (at first) difficult task of easing out the clutch as you rev, if they didn't have to also concentrate on other aspects of driving.

May have been true back in the days when clutches were directly connected to the pedal; they were heavy. Now it's hydraulics and a servo. And let's not forget the lack of synchromesh. All that double-clutching.

Two things I've found after driving manual transmission cars for a long time:

The footwork becomes instinctive. Related to that, a part of you is instinctively connected to driving. No matter how distracted you are by other things, you're more apt to be scanning mirrors and gauges.

Daquan13
March 10th, 2010, 12:06 PM
Yes Ninja, you're right and that IS true.

But we won't really know for sure until the investigation is completed and that it is revealed what really happened in the final moments just before the crash.

I was crossing an intersection here yesterday after heeding to the stop sign. I then proceeded with caution.

Four or five pedestrians were crossing the street at the same time. What they did next was unexpected. They came across my path to the other corner of the street and I had to stop suddenly to avoid hitting any of them. I was in the middle of the intersection.

The police were right there. Had I kept going, they would have nailed me with a citation.

Ninjahedge
March 10th, 2010, 12:48 PM
I had to stop suddenly to avoid hitting any of them. I was in the middle of the intersection.

The police were right there. Had I kept going, they would have nailed me with a citation

Yes, I heard that running over people is a bad thing...... ;)

195Broadway
March 10th, 2010, 03:29 PM
It's manual transmissions for me. So much so, that the last vehecle I bought, I replaced the automatic with a manual.

Daquan13
March 10th, 2010, 03:53 PM
It's the constant shifting of the gears that I wouldn't be able to do.

Ninjahedge
March 11th, 2010, 07:40 AM
It's the constant shifting of the gears that I wouldn't be able to do.


BS.

This isn't like playing the drums, and the shifting is only constant with stop-and-go traffic.

Daquan13
March 11th, 2010, 12:08 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota

It's not BS if I never learned to drive manually.

Meanwhile, there has been a rash of seemingly unexplains crashes involving Toyota's Prius vehicle.

The feds are coming here to the Cape to investigate the most recent accident involving a woman'd Rav 4, which crashed into a doc's office.

And another Prius was also involved in a crash through a small brick wall.

Ninjahedge
March 11th, 2010, 12:53 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota

It's not BS if I never learned to drive manually.

Yes it is BS.

You don't have to 'shift constantly'.

You are allowed your own opinions about things Daq, just realize that when you base them on something that does not happen or exist, it really does not lend any strength to the emotional position you take.

You don't FEEL comfortable about the idea of learning something new, so you invent reasons like "constantly shifting". When they are prooven false, you still FEEL the same way and refuse to acknowledge the error (because that would lend less credibility to the feeling).

It is pretty much what people do with a lot of things, especially in politics.

Anyway, I hope they get this all straitened out. I want only the people that were hurt by this mistake to get what they deserve, not a bunch of freeloaders.

I also want the ones responsible for the coverup exposed and discredited because of it. There is just not enough executive culpability around these days.....

kz1000ps
March 11th, 2010, 01:32 PM
Meanwhile, Toyota, thanks to the buttload of incentives they rolled out this Month, is on track for a 30% sales increase over last year. (February sales were down 10%).

Link (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100310/RETAIL01/100319988/1400)

Daquan13
March 11th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Ninja, I'm not here to argure with you.

Yes, you're entitled to your opinions, while I'm entitled to mine.

So let's end it now, please. :(

lofter1
March 11th, 2010, 03:38 PM
If these Toyota-ers could down shift the problem would be minimized.

NYatKNIGHT
March 11th, 2010, 04:32 PM
True that. Of those who do drive a stick shift, a lot of them are really crappy at it.

lofter1
March 11th, 2010, 05:50 PM
That's why everyone should initially learn to drive using a stick. If they can't do it, then they shouldn't be licensed to drive a vehicle. :cool:

Daquan13
March 12th, 2010, 02:13 AM
Vehicles always have been, and always WILL be availible in two choices.

To give the consumer the option to choose between the two. :)

Ninjahedge
March 12th, 2010, 08:10 AM
Look for the "N"

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/11003859+w750+st0/163_0809_15z+2009_toyota_fj_cruiser+automatic_gear _shifter.jpg

http://www.motiontrends.com/2009/01/toyota/2010_Toyota_Prius_gear_shift.jpghttp://www.toyota.com.au/TWR/content/static/74920.jpg

Daquan13
March 12th, 2010, 09:07 AM
I KNOW what neutral is or means. :rolleyes:

Ninjahedge
March 12th, 2010, 10:19 AM
Then why do so few people know how to use it?

Daquan13
March 12th, 2010, 11:18 AM
Beats me.

lofter1
March 12th, 2010, 12:05 PM
But it seems in many of these Toyota situations shifting to neutral doesn't do the trick (nor does pushing the "off" button) -- somehow the electronics override the driver's choice and the car does what it pleases.

Ninjahedge
March 12th, 2010, 12:45 PM
That would be a major problem Loft, but none of the news reports I have heard so far have mentioned anyone doing that.

They just mention people wearing the brakes down to nothing (probably trying to slow down instead of stop, wearing the pads to nothing before the latter is achieved) and calling the cops.

Also, not ALL Toyotas are electronically controlled to the extent that the manual devices would be ineffective. Maybe they just don't know what exactly is causing it so they pulled any vehicle that might have a problem? (I can see something like the electric Prius being subject to that, also any CVT machine, since the drive is not controlled by any direct mechanical means....)

lofter1
March 12th, 2010, 01:23 PM
There's been lots of discussion (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100310014734AArKA0j) about the problem of trying to shut off the driving-on-its-own Toyota engine using the "keep-pushing-the-OFF-button-for-5-seconds-until-the-engine-shuts-down" method and the subsequent problems -- like the steering wheel locking up.

Daquan13
March 12th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Another blow was dealt to Toyota when info had surfaced that the organization which is supposed to monitor all auto makers has been letting Toyota slide and they've been trying to evade their responsibilities as a an overseeer of making sure that Toyota was on the up-&-up.

They've come under fire, and the feds are wondering why it took so long for them to make sure that the co was not taking short cuts or cutting corners.

Several officials have since left the organization to pursue other careers, but in the meantime, there were so many loopholes in the system that has allowed Toyota to slip through the cracks and get away with every conceivable sneaky underhanded maneuver possible. :(

kz1000ps
March 13th, 2010, 12:18 AM
Vehicles always have been, and always WILL be availible in two choices.

To give the consumer the option to choose between the two. :)

Wrong and wrong :rolleyes:

The first mass-produced automatic transmission didn't come out until 1939. And there's three transmission types available today, the third being the semi-automatic/clutchless manual/paddle-shifting kind.

Daquan13
March 13th, 2010, 03:16 AM
Incorrect.

1. First off, I never at all said anything about WHEN anything was first introduced, now DID I?

2. Don't get it twisted.

3. The consumer PRETTY DAMN WELL DOES have the right to choose which type of vehicle, automatic or mannual, that he or she wants to operate, whichever type of vehicle they learned to drive and are accustomed to driving. It's called freedom of choice.

4. And that statement that you made is YOUR opinion, so I'm entitled to mine. :rolleyes:

kz1000ps
March 13th, 2010, 01:33 PM
1. First off, I never at all said anything about WHEN anything was first introduced, now DID I?

Yes you did. "Vehicles always have been....availible in two choices." That is false, manuals were the only thing available for some 40+ years.


3. The consumer PRETTY DAMN WELL DOES have the right to choose which type of vehicle, automatic or mannual, that he or she wants to operate, whichever type of vehicle they learned to drive and are accustomed to driving. It's called freedom of choice.

When did I say consumers don't have a choice? I made the point they have MORE than two choices, which you ("vehicles...always WILL be availible in two choices") falsely proclaimed as a fact. Today, there's three choices. And how do you know in the future there won't be 30 choices? One choice?

These are not opinions, they're facts.

Daquan13
March 13th, 2010, 05:01 PM
Incorrect.

I don't want to talk about it any more.

You obviously aren't getting the point.

Don't you understand the point between WHEN something was FIRST INTRODUCED and NOW AVAILIBLE? Look it up.

You mixed it up and you're still getting it twisted.

Goodbye. :rolleyes:

Ninjahedge
March 14th, 2010, 01:02 AM
q, you take these things way too personally, and post opinions and positions as unalterable facts. Just be careful about your somantics, as they can easily be contested as they were here.


But that really has NOTHING to do with the original topic, so lets just forget about it and move on, ok everybody (myself included...)

Daquan13
March 14th, 2010, 03:39 AM
Getting back to the thing at hand, so far, nothing more has cpome out concerning Toyota. :confused:

Fabrizio
March 15th, 2010, 10:34 AM
The cars are satellite controlled. It was a test to see if the system was functioning. This is the same technology that was involved in the Lady Diana incident. Passengers and drivers can be listened to, electronically tracked, and made to have "accidents" if need be. It is the same concept behind the 9/11 remote controlled planes.

Gov't Says It Cannot Explain Runaway Toyota
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: March 15, 2010

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The federal government said Monday it cannot explain a reported incident of sudden, high-speed acceleration in a Toyota Prius on a San Diego freeway and acknowledged it may not be able to solve the mystery of what happened to the hybrid.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said its engineers continue to investigate and are reviewing data from the Prius owned by James Sikes to try to understand what led to last week's high-speed incident. But so far, NHTSA says it has not been able to find anything to explain what Sikes reported.

''We would caution people that our work continues and that we may never know exactly what happened with this car,'' NHTSA said in a statement.

Inspectors tried during a two-hour test drive to duplicate the acceleration, but couldn't do so.

Sikes called 911 last Monday to report losing control of his Prius as the hybrid reached speeds of 94 mph. A highway patrol officer helped bring the vehicle to a safe stop. Though no one was injured, dramatic footage of the incident captured by local television stations captivated the nation, quickly becoming a high-profile headache for Toyota, which like NHTSA sent in an engineering team to investigate.

John Gomez, an attorney for Sikes, said the failure to repeat the incident is insignificant and not surprising.

''They have never been able to replicate an incident of sudden acceleration. Mr. Sikes never had a problem in the three years he owned this vehicle,'' he said Sunday.

But Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., suggested the failure to duplicate the stuck accelerator, along with a vehicle design to prevent such occurrences, raises questions about Sikes' story.

''It doesn't mean it didn't happen, but let's understand, it doesn't mean it did happen,'' Issa said on CBS' ''Early Show.''

Toyota Motor Corp. planned to announce preliminary findings of its investigation at a news conference Monday in San Diego.

NHTSA is looking into claims from more than 60 Toyota owners that their vehicles continue to accelerate unexpectedly despite having their vehicles repaired.

Technicians with the NHTSA and Toyota could not duplicate what Sikes said he experienced March 8 on a mountainous but lightly traveled stretch of Interstate 8 east of San Diego, according to a congressional staffer's memo prepared for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

''Every time the technician placed the gas pedal to the floor and the brake pedal to the floor the engine shut off and the car immediately started to slow down,'' the memo read.

According to the memo, a Toyota official who was at the two-day inspection last week in suburban San Diego explained that an electric motor would ''completely seize'' if a system to shut off the gas when the brake is pressed fails, and there was no evidence to support that happened.

''In this case, knowing that we are able to push the car around the shop, it does not appear to be feasibly possible, both electronically and mechanically that his gas pedal was stuck to the floor and he was slamming on the brake at the same time,'' according to the memo.

Toyota has recalled millions of cars because of floor mats that can snag gas pedals or accelerators that can sometimes stick. Sikes' car was covered by the floor mat recall but not the one for sticky accelerators. He later told reporters that he tried to pull on the gas pedal during his harrowing ride, but it didn't ''move at all.''

The Prius is powered by two electric motor-generators and a small gasoline engine, all connected by transmission gears. A computer, which Toyota calls the ''hybrid control computer'' determines what combination of motors is needed and which would be most efficient.

Craig Hoff, a professor of mechanical engineering at Kettering University in Flint, Mich., said that for the Prius to accelerate out of control, at least two systems would have to fail simultaneously. They are the sensor signal that tracks the brake and gas pedal positions when the driver presses on them and the hybrid control computers.

''The chance of them both going wrong, plus the fact that the signal is bad, it just seems very, very, very remote,'' Hoff said. ''Could it happen? Statistically, yes. But it just doesn't seem very likely.''

Several events usually combine to cause problems with cars, and it's difficult to reproduce them, Hoff said.

''It's going to make it really hard to find, because you've got to line up the multiple effects,'' he said.

The congressional memo said both the front and rear brakes were worn and damaged by heat, consistent with Sikes saying that he stood on the brake pedal with both feet and was unable to stop the car. But if the fail-safe system worked properly, the brakes wouldn't have been damaged because power would have been cut to the wheels.

Gomez said the best evidence that his client was frantically slamming the brakes is that a California Highway Patrol officer who was giving Sikes instructions over a loudspeaker smelled burning brakes and saw the lights on.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/03/15/us/AP-US-Runaway-Prius.html?ref=global-home

Ninjahedge
March 15th, 2010, 11:07 AM
''Every time the technician placed the gas pedal to the floor and the brake pedal to the floor the engine shut off and the car immediately started to slow down,'' the memo read.

That may be the key there. As others have said, placing yuor foot on the brake should have stopped him.

Also, hybrids use EM braking as well as pads, right? Hitting the brakes charges the batteries, so I am not sure how he was able to burn out the brakes unless he was driving two-footed for a while and did not floor the brakes.....

I think this is NOT a case of a stuck accelerator. I think they are phrasing it wrong. If anything, this is a case of a central computer failure which could be very difficult to replicate if it has only happened in 60 or so cars out of millions.....

Daquan13
March 15th, 2010, 11:48 AM
The guy's attourney states that the vehicle's on-board computer is possibly the culprit behind the car taking a nutty and going out of control.

Ninjahedge
March 15th, 2010, 12:14 PM
The guys attorney also knows what would be the hardest thing to prove (or disprove) and what a jury would trust the least.

You claim a mechanical problem and it can be found not to be true, but a computer glitch is almost impossible to back-trace in a lot of these situations.

Daquan13
March 15th, 2010, 12:27 PM
Yeah, the officials now think that the man might have fabricated the story to get some exposure and to try to smear Toyota's reputation further, which IMHO, isn't much left.

lofter1
March 15th, 2010, 01:09 PM
Yeah, right ... can't be replicated so the problem doesn't exist. :cool:

Probably all those Toyota drivers with supposed runaway cars hooked up on the internet and hatched a scheme to trash Toyota. Like they don't have anything better to do with their lives.

Daquan13
March 15th, 2010, 03:34 PM
I think you're right, Lofter1!

It IS kind of hard to believe that there are or were THAT many Toyota vehicles that went berserk and out of control like Christine.

ForestHillsGardens
March 15th, 2010, 04:17 PM
For me, I feel it is definitely a central computer failure, it has nothing to do with brake pads and such, also I feel that this is exactly the samething that has been occuring in Vista computers, files sometimes 'eat' each other up so codes may be getting unintentionally deleted by other corrupted codes. I feel that may be the thing unfortunately and a computer design flaw, I think many things are caused by computer failures, sadly :(...

lofter1
March 15th, 2010, 04:29 PM
... Toyota vehicles that went berserk and out of control like Christine.


http://www.stephenkingshop.com/images/books/king/covers/christine/chris1_jap.gif.....http://www.stephenkingshop.com/images/books/king/covers/christine/chris2_jap.gif

...:( :eek: .................................:eek: :eek:

Ninjahedge
March 15th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Yeah, right ... can't be replicated so the problem doesn't exist. :cool:

Here's the problem Loft.

As bad as it is, if you can't prove it, should the other party be responsible?

I am not saying that there is not a problem here, but there HAVE been documented cases of people swearing that their car went out of control, but when investigated they found that the breaks were not touched (the person stomped the gas rather than the brake).

AAMOF, there was one case in Hoboken not too long ago.

The thing that makes this different is the frequency of occurance. you really have to weed out any human error, and any fishermen you might have before you can determine if there IS a problem and what that problem is. the more that claim it w/o it actually happening, the harder it will be to prove and recreate and the more it will hurt the case.

I am not saying that this is not a problem, but I hate it when blame is just thrown about.....

Daquan13
March 15th, 2010, 04:43 PM
Lofter, I somehow knew that you would do that. :D

lofter1
March 15th, 2010, 05:23 PM
As bad as it is, if you can't prove it, should the other party be responsible?


In a courtroom the pleading party (here the buyers / drivers) would have to make the case that a defect existed in order to win.

However, in a case such as this where the government watch dogs have stepped in, it would seem the burden has now shifted to Toyota to show there is no problem -- hard case for Toyota to make, despite the fact that they can't figure it out.

If this were simply a case of (multiple) driver errors then wouldn't we be seeing a similar sampling of out-of-control vehicles made by other manufacturers? Why so much more often does this involve Toyota vehicles?

Perhaps it's a personal defect within those who chose to buy Toyota?

Daquan13
March 15th, 2010, 07:44 PM
If not for anything else, then I think that Toyota should at least be held accountable and liable for the fact that they KNOWINGLY hid crucial info about the design flaws in some of their vehicles that could have saved lives and kept them out of the red.

But instead, they greedily kept quiet and said nothing.

For this fact alone, I'd say that in court, they don't have a leg to stand on!

There is a lesson to be learned from this, and that is, never hide info about a design flaw in your co's vehicles because it could later come back to haunt you. :eek:

Ninjahedge
March 16th, 2010, 08:10 AM
However, in a case such as this where the government watch dogs have stepped in, it would seem the burden has now shifted to Toyota to show there is no problem -- hard case for Toyota to make, despite the fact that they can't figure it out.

That is the tough thing Loft. One of the biggest sticking points in the scientific community is that while it may take a lot of work, almost anything can be shown to cause something to happen, but it is almost impossible to show that something will not happen.

You can only come down to simple cause-and-effect scenarios so that the one crucial combination of driveing 77 mph with a lightening rod down main street in a thunderstorm does not send you back to 1989...... ;)

(IOW, proving that at 76mph, 75, 74, using copper instead of steel, what car, what road, what direction, how fast the wind is going, etc etc etc....)

Lawyers know this too and LOVE using it when they can to confuse the jury.


If this were simply a case of (multiple) driver errors then wouldn't we be seeing a similar sampling of out-of-control vehicles made by other manufacturers? Why so much more often does this involve Toyota vehicles?

Yes, but no. The only way to test it is to do a release on the news showing that a Ford XXX had the same problem and see how many people, in light of that report and the current feeling of "OMG", would then come forward and admit similar things happening despite the fact that the initial report was bogus.

Herein lies the problem. You have to find out what claims may be factual and not perceived. SOME of these people may not be sheisters looking to cash in (as is the rumor of that Prius incident they are now investigating). They may genuinely believe that the car is at fault, as many thought the same on those incidents of runaway acceleration made by tromping the wrong pedal. NONE of the responsible parties knew they were at fault, and even when confronted, most did not want to believe it. So how would this be much different IF the situation was similar?

So the challenge now is to look into it as closely as possible, SEE if there is anything wrong, SEE if the individual cases have merrit, then award damages as appropriate and, more importantly, FIX the problem before more people are hurt.


Question though, what is the track record here. I have only heard of a few incidents recently.... Why did Toyota recall so far back? Could this be a wear-and-tear failure?


Perhaps it's a personal defect within those who chose to buy Toyota?

Rhetorical question that has nothing to do with the argument presented. I move to dismiss that question from the records as it has no bearing on this case.


;)

Daquan13
March 16th, 2010, 10:36 AM
"Your request and motion to dismiss that question is DENIED. You are henceforth ordered not to interupt the proceedings again.

Proceed with the case, please. I want to know why Mr. Toyota deliberately withheld this valuable info from the dealers and customers.

One more outbust from you, sir, and I'll hold you in contempt of court!! Sit down, please. Bailiff, please go stand next to that man and be ready to arrest him & throw him out of here if he acts up again." :D :p

Ninjahedge
March 16th, 2010, 11:15 AM
You ain't MY judge!

Who let this fool in? ;)


BTW daq, the important thing is to find out what happened before you start assigning blame. Unfortunately, everybody is more than willing to start blaming, and punishing Toyota before we even know what really happened.

That is NOT the way to run things, unless you want a few scapegoats, un-announced settlements and no full disclosure of what really happened.

lofter1
March 16th, 2010, 11:51 AM
NH: You're acting as if Toyota has just completely denied that there was any problem at all. Instead they have acknowledged multiple problems and spent untold millions in an effort to recall vehicles / correct the "unknown' problem.

Seems they have indicted themselves.

Ninjahedge
March 16th, 2010, 11:54 AM
They will keep doing so until the $$ come in Loft.

So far the reasons they gave are BS. But, before you burn the witch, you have to see if she floats.

Daquan13
March 16th, 2010, 12:26 PM
"You ain't MY judge! Who let this fool in?" Ha!! I like that one!! :D

Lofter, you're right!

They might have spent untold millions for the recall of their vehicles, but they're going to be spending untold BILLIONS upon BILLIONS in class-action, wrongful death, liability lawsuits and other stuff.

They're already losing money because they are either seriously contemplating stopping, or have already stopped production on certain current models.

This is sort of like the calm before the storm. You thought that the Eastern Seaboard had a very rough storm this past weekend? As the old saying goes; You ain't seen NOTHIN' yet! I think that there are going to be even rougher waters and gale-force storm winds knocking down their wind & sales before it's all said and done! :eek: :eek: :eek:

OmegaNYC
March 17th, 2010, 12:22 AM
With all the problems Toyota is having, I wish cars can go back to the simple days. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8mZdSq4MTs)

Ninjahedge
March 17th, 2010, 09:45 AM
My Alumni mailing:



Toyota Talk

(http://pgnet.stanford.edu/home/rta/click?rtaCode=64285&rtaTarget=http:**www.boston.com*business*technolog y*articles*2010*03*08*toyota_disputes_critic_who_b lames_electronics*&rtaTcode=64546&eid=54426592735)It's Stanford vs. Southern Illinois, and it's not March Madness. Southern Illinois University professor David Gilbert testified before a Congressional panel that reports of sudden acceleration in certain models of Toyotas could be due to a flaw in the electronic control system; Toyota maintains that any problems are mechanical. At Toyota's request, Stanford associate professor of mechanical engineering J. Christian Gerdes conducted an independent review of Gilbert's work, and found no evidence that the professor's rewiring demonstration could occur under real-world driving conditions without being detected. "Fundamentally, you cannot rewire a circuit and expect it to behave as originally designed," he said.
More from the Boston Globe Ľ (http://pgnet.stanford.edu/home/rta/click?rtaCode=64285&rtaTarget=http:**www.boston.com*business*technolog y*articles*2010*03*08*toyota_disputes_critic_who_b lames_electronics*&rtaTcode=64546&eid=54426592735)

(if link does not copy: http://pgnet.stanford.edu/home/rta/click?rtaCode=64285&rtaTarget=http:**www.boston.com*business*technolog y*articles*2010*03*08*toyota_disputes_critic_who_b lames_electronics*&rtaTcode=64546&eid=54426592735)

195Broadway
March 17th, 2010, 11:20 AM
Omega,
You can buy a brand new 1967, '69 or '70 Mustang fastback. Some assembly required.

http://www.dynacornclassicbodies.com/ford_models2.html

Daquan13
March 19th, 2010, 12:14 PM
The woman who accidentally drove her Toyota Prius through a small stone wall is being blamed for driver error.

She claims that the gas pedal got stuck. Further investigation into the incident revealed that SHE was at fault, not the vehicle.

ZippyTheChimp
March 19th, 2010, 12:23 PM
How did they come to that conclusion? Did she admit it?

Daquan13
March 19th, 2010, 12:34 PM
They didn't say. I think that she still maintains that it was the vehicle causing the gas pedal getting stuck.

Like the guy in San Diego on the freeway. who says that the gas pedal in HIS Prius also got stuck. Toyota is not buying HIS story either.

Well of course you know, Toyota is going to also maintain THEIR supposed innocense also. :(

Ninjahedge
March 19th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Back to Zip's comment, how do they know, either way?

Was there any further information, or is this just a media catchphrase to get you interested without any real information.....

ZippyTheChimp
March 19th, 2010, 01:12 PM
They didn't say.Actually, they did.


Federal safety regulators investigating the crash of a Toyota Prius in suburban New York said Thursday that the carís computer showed no evidence of braking by the driver at the time of the crash.

However...
What is unclear is whether the woman depressed the brake after the car sped up and then took her foot off the brake just before the crash. The recorder on the Prius involved captured data only after the air bags deployed, Toyota said. This key fact was not reported in several sources, including a Washington Post blog (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/economy-watch/2010/03/feds_brakes_were_not_applied_o.html).

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/business/19toyota.html

Ninjahedge
March 19th, 2010, 04:24 PM
In all fairness Zip, if your foot is over the brake, and you start decelerating fast enough to trip the bags, most likely you are not super-humanly fast enough to remove your foot from the pedal.... (Or strong enough).

I would be more likely to believe that the compute ITSELF did not record it (erroneously) than she removed her foot from the brake....

Unless we are talking about well before (a second or two)? that would be possible. The key to that would have been to look at the pads after the crash, were they HOT or warm?

ZippyTheChimp
March 19th, 2010, 05:09 PM
In the Post blog, it mentions that the Harrison police were upset with the release of the data and conclusions drawn without an investigation.

The reason they were upset was mentioned in another article. Toyota and the NHTSA admitted that the black-box computer data only took a "snapshot" of conditions when the air bag deployed.

From another source (http://www.lohud.com/article/20100319/NEWS02/3190367/Feds--brakes-weren-t-applied-on-crashed-NY-Prius):
The Prius is equipped with an event data recorder, or "black box" designed to record the state of the car at the moment of the impact.

The car moved down a driveway, across a road and shoulder before crashing into a wall. No one can tell what went on until the car hit the wall. It's just as reasonable that the woman might have panicked when she realized the car was going to crash, and tried to protect herself. To recoil away from the collision isn't an unusual reaction.

If the NHTSA had any evidence that the brakes were cold, they would have released it to support their conclusion.

Daquan13
March 19th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Another Prius crashed into a tent today in New York.

Is this sheer coinsidence, or is it that the car really is problematic? Anyway, this accident is also being blamed on the driver.

And again, a Toyota spokesman says that it's not the car itself that caused it. :(

Ninjahedge
March 19th, 2010, 07:34 PM
Daq, could be 2 things.

1. That this is brought to our attension more now than before. Try this. Pick a car, any car (preferrably within the last 5 years. You don't remember seeing too many of them, but now that you are LOOKING, you see SO MANY. I had that when car shopping...

2. People are being opportunist and want to sell their Prius for $10M.

Both are POSSIBLE, but neither is an automatic appelation. Each case needs to be investigated regardless of how many went before.

ForestHillsGardens
March 19th, 2010, 10:26 PM
Everyday there are car crashes, everyday there are mistakes, we just need to inspect more and then conclude, we cannot start speculating and blaming each other and car companies about some kinda crash, so we still need to look into ETC, while if that turns out to be okay, then all the drivers whom done these things are at fault and could go into jail ya know...

Daquan13
March 21st, 2010, 02:44 PM
Ninjahedge, you might be right.

I think also, that all those crashes and sudden speed accelerations with the Prius are all staged. :eek:

Ninjahedge
March 22nd, 2010, 08:04 AM
I never said they were all staged.

What I said was that some might be staged, and some might be driver error.

If it is a problem with the vehicle, it needs to be addressed, but they need to throw out the false claims so they can diagnose the real problem. The people that are filing false claims, or erroneously believing the car is at fault for thei own mistakes, are only hurting those that may have a legitimate claim.

Daquan13
March 22nd, 2010, 09:25 AM
I agree with you, and I, ALSO, said that they are staged.

But yeah, you're right, the NEED to try to establish what is real and what is fake.

There HAS been a rash or Prius accidents and it's just plain poppycok that this many Priuses have supposedly gone out of control, ending up on soneone's front lawn or partially through a house or a doc's office.

It DOES sound sick & sadistic that people would do this just to get their name and pic in the papers or on the news just to try to further smear a car maker. :(

Ninjahedge
March 22nd, 2010, 01:49 PM
Why all Prius's?

Could it be something wrong with that model in particular? Or is the Prius simply bought by a certain demographic?

Are these people looking for something with a little more muscle? :confused:

Daquan13
March 22nd, 2010, 03:15 PM
I think what it is, is that people might be sabotaging this model as a way to try to get rid of it because they heard that even though the car might be problematic, but theirs is probably NOT, so they are trying to MAKE it problematic by deliberately crashing it or making belief that it is.

It would appear that they no longer like or want the car.

So they fabricate a story by crashing it or speeding it and saying that it's dangerously broken. :(

kz1000ps
March 22nd, 2010, 11:06 PM
Or is the Prius simply bought by a certain demographic?

And perhaps this certain demographic smugs up their windows to the point they can't properly judge distances?

Ninjahedge
March 23rd, 2010, 08:04 AM
They breathe too heavily.

Miniature Global Warming/Greenhouse effect/CO2.

The usual.

Daquan13
April 17th, 2010, 01:40 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota


More problems for troubled Toyota.

Two more problematic models have been yanked off the production line;

1. the Lexus SUV or Minivan that is made by Toyota.

Consumer Reports had released a report, saying that this model is in gave danger of a rollover during sharp turns at high speeds.

Dealers were also notified by Toyota not to sell these two models.

2. The Sienna, with model production years '03 to '10.

The tire treads could come off, causing a rollover quite similar to what happened with the Ford Explorer when it had Firestone tires intalled on it.

Ninjahedge
April 17th, 2010, 10:05 AM
The Sienna is a weird one.

BTW, the Explorer problem was because Ford under-inflated the tires to give the vehicle a "smoother ride". If they inflated them properly, they would have ridden fine.

As for the rollover, that is a bit weird too. People keep buying these HUGE vehicles and hink they can drive like cars. They are almost small box trucks!! I am kind of on the fence about the rollover warning as it is kind of expected with a lot of these guys (especially if you ever put on any roof load.....)

Daquan13
April 20th, 2010, 05:11 PM
The Lexus GX460 has come under fire. It has been yanked from the production line.

Also, now insurance co's are going after Toyota, saying that they want to be reimbursed for Toyota not manning up in the beginning about their problematic vehicles.

Daquan13
May 21st, 2010, 05:44 PM
Toyota has now recalled over 4,000 of the Lexus luxury vehicle models.

The Lexus was normally the flaship of the company. These vehicles can cost upwards of a sale price of over $100,000!

Daquan13
August 27th, 2010, 04:10 PM
Even MORE troubles for Toyota!

The co has recalled earlier models years of the Corolla and Matrix models for engine problems, saying that the engines in these models can stall out while driving them.

This one affects '05 models.

Ninjahedge
August 31st, 2010, 09:42 AM
Didn't they just say that the previous recall was unfounded? They have not been able to find one thing wrong with the accelerators....?


I wish I had invested in them right after the recall! :(