View Full Version : Osama bin Laden has been killed

May 1st, 2011, 10:57 PM
Bin Laden Is Dead, U.S. Official Says

Osama bin Laden has been killed (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-is-killed.html), a United States official said Sunday night. President Obama is expected to make an announcement on Sunday night, almost 10 years after the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.


breaking on NBC it is confirmed

May 1st, 2011, 11:16 PM
YES! Not a minute too soon. There's sure to be more roaches from where he came from. Wonder how they'll change their strategies. Exhilirating!

May 1st, 2011, 11:46 PM
^^^ Great news !
... CONGRATS !!!

May 1st, 2011, 11:49 PM

May 2nd, 2011, 12:59 AM

May 2nd, 2011, 01:00 AM
It must be very hard for the Republicans to swallow that this came under Obama's watch!

May 2nd, 2011, 01:00 AM
Good riddance.

May 2nd, 2011, 01:02 AM
It must be very hard for the Republicans to swallow that this came under Obama's watch!
I know! muah ha ha!!

May 2nd, 2011, 01:20 AM
No need to shed tears for Bin Laden, but we should be careful of what we wish for....

My wish is that people would not celebrate...

May 2nd, 2011, 02:19 AM
It seems that a lot of those celebrating tonight are folks who were jsut kids 10 years ago and have grown up with the weight of 9/11 and endless war on top of them.

Personally the news brought me a feeling of huge relief, and am surprised by the really emotional reaction I had to Obama's speech. When I first saw the news flash while watching the TV that the POTUS was going to speak late on a Sunday night it seemed that we'd hear nothing good.

I don't think this will change a heck of a lot, but perhaps the removal of the spectre of Bin Laden will bring about some cosmic alteration in the American psyche.

And wouldn't you know: Donald Trump & The Apprentice got bumped during it's last climactic minutes.

Just think: OBL AND The Donald in one fell swoop! Gotcha!!!

May 2nd, 2011, 02:26 AM
Three guesses who marks the occasion with this:

I am really surprised that Obama didn't insist he be brought to Manhattan to stand trial here in New York. Seriously.

UPDATE: The teleprompter is speaking *yawn* The teleprompter is taking credit for the killing. Every other word is I.

"We are not at war with Islam."
"He was not a Muslim Leader"

Sheesh ........ the man is insane.

May 2nd, 2011, 02:44 AM
I was 14 when 9/11 happened and I witnessed it first hand from JC and remember that whole day vividly. I went down to our cities memorial at Grand St and the Hudson River tonight and I started to cry out of sheer joy and relief. It feels like a weight coming off. The most remarkable thing tonight was that people started walking to our memorial praying, sitting in silence, and celebrating as well. Completely organic coming together to the site of so much grief to come and in change experience joy and relief. This is a historic memorable night and I am celebrating. I lost friends that day and have lived with this grief and a world at war; this is a time for jubulation.

I feel this 10th anniversary will have much different tone with this news.

May 2nd, 2011, 02:45 AM
Unverified photo (http://pikchur.com/Af0J) of the late OBL

May 2nd, 2011, 02:57 AM
WHERE (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=abbottabad,+pakistan&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Abbottābad,+Abbottabad,+Khyber+Pakhtunkhwa,+ Pakistan&gl=us&ll=34.148785,73.217568&spn=0.024044,0.045447&z=15) it went down.

As noted by Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/05/the-arc-of-justice-live-blogging.html):

The eighth anniversary of "Mission Accomplished (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Mission_Accomplished_speech)." To the day.

The 66th anniversary of the anouncement of the death of Adolph Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler). To the day.

And ...

The NYT has its obit (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/02osama-bin-laden-obituary.html) up. It's seven pages long.

May 2nd, 2011, 03:00 AM
It must be very hard for the Republicans to swallow that this came under Obama's watch!

I can't wait to hear their comments.

May 2nd, 2011, 03:04 AM
As heard earlier this evening:

"DT, BO here. Who got fired? I was otherwise detained.

Oh, and one other thing ..."


May 2nd, 2011, 03:06 AM
Unsatisfying, tiring. But I felt for a while that it would be this way. More a relief.

Strange about the Hitler anniversary. But after Hitler was dead, we made peace.

Who do we make peace with now?

No reason to celebrate.

May 2nd, 2011, 04:01 AM
Sadly, for those innocent people who we've so helplessly lost on that very warm & sunny but horrible day, we can never bring them back.

But at least the most evil and most hated individual in the world has been brought to justice and killed! This could help Obama win a 2nd term in office.

May 2nd, 2011, 06:29 AM
Bin Laden Killing Draws Praise From Allies but Concern About Reprisals


PARIS — As the United States issued a world-wide alert to American citizens following the death of Osama Bin Laden, Washington’s allies on Mondaypraised the operation that killed the Al Qaeda leader in Pakistan. But relief was tempered by concern about potential reprisals, not just from Al Qaeda but from like-minded groups and individuals.
The response was most nuanced in the Middle East.

In Lebanon, some downplayed the relevance of Mr. Bin Laden at a time of great tumult in the Arab world, where events have seemed to overtake a figure whose deeds helped unleash two wars and greatly deepened American intervention in the Middle East.

“This man hasn’t shown his face, or made any statement in a long time despite the important developments that our region is witnessing right now,” said Talal Atrissi, a professor of sociology at the Lebanese University. “He has been absent for a while.”

Mr. Atrissi said Mr. Bin Laden was a polarizing figure, dividing supporters who saw his attacks as another righteous battle in a contest between West and East, and others who saw his deadly acts and their celebration as spectacles harming Islam and its image in the rest of the world.

“The division over him that we saw when he was alive will prevail after his death, though the fact the U.S. killed him could make some sympathize with him,” Mr. Atrissi said.
That same duality emerged in Cairo, capital of the most populous Arab nation, which is itself embroiled in revolutionary fervor after the toppling of President Hosni Mubarak in February.
Egyptians reading the Web site of the independent newspaper Youm 7 — or Seventh Day --- responded to the killing with mixed emotions. “I do not know if you are a fighter in the name of God or if you are a terrorist who killed many Muslims,” one reader wrote.

A few called Mr. Bin Laden a martyr. “You lived a lion and died a lion,” one wrote. “May God have mercy upon you, you hero.”

Another promised revenge. “All of America’s presidents, the current, previous and future ones, have become a target of Al Qaeda,” the posting said.

Some expressed disbelief, or looked beyond the death of one leader. “He will not be the last American enemy,” another wrote. “Yes he did a lot to them, but they are the ones who create their enemies and they will create another Bin Laden and another and another.”

Many cheered at the turn of a page in history. “It is clear that this year carries a lot of good for the Arabs,” one wrote. “Liberating our nations from dictators and terrorists means a push forward toward modernity and progress.”

n particular, some of the lands that had been victims of Al Qaeda attacks greeted the announcement by President Obama with an enthusiastic welcome — coupled with warnings that the terrorist threat he personified has metastasized and spread to unknowable numbers of others.

In East Africa, where Al Qaeda was blamed for the 1998 bombings of the American embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi that killed 224 people, the Kenyan Prime Minister, Raila Odinga, told Reuters, “Kenyans are happy and thank the U.S. people, the Pakistani people and everybody else who managed to kill Osama.”

“Osama’s death can only be positive for Kenya, but we need to have a stable government in Somalia,” Mr. Odinga said, referring to the turmoil in Kenya’s northern neighbor, where the Shabab Islamic militant group has pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda. While the death of Mr. Bin Laden might upset the jihadist movement there, Mr. Odinga said, “then it will regroup and continue.”

In Britain, which has wrestled for years with terrorism linked to training camps in Pakistan, Prime Minister David Cameron said the death of Mr. Bin Laden “will bring great relief to people across the world.” Britain has been a close ally of the United States in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq — both triggered by Al Qaeda’s attacks on the United States on Sept. 11, 2001.

“Osama bin Laden was responsible for the worst terrorist atrocities the world has seen - for 9/11 and for so many attacks, which have cost thousands of lives, many of them British,” Mr. Cameron said in a statement, alluding to both British victims in the attacks in America and the suicide bombings of the London transit system on July 7, 2005, that killed 52 people and four bombers.

“Of course, it does not mark the end of the threat we face from extremist terrorism,” he said. “Indeed, we will have to be particularly vigilant in the weeks ahead,” he said, adding, “But above all today, we should think of the victims of the poisonous extremism that this man has been responsible for.”

“Of course, nothing will bring back those loved ones that families have lost to terror. But at least they know the man who was responsible for these appalling acts is no more,” Mr. Cameron said.
In Australia, which also has troops fighting in Afghanistan, Prime Minister Julia Gillard said Australia will continue its operations there. “Whilst Al Qaeda has been hurt today, Al Qaeda is not finished,” she told reporters. “Our war against terrorism must continue. We will continue the mission in Afghanistan.”

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel called the operation “a resounding triumph for justice, freedom and the values shared by all democratic nations fighting shoulder to shoulder in determination against terrorism,” Reuters reported. That remark offered a rare point of agreement with the Palestinian Authority, which said in a statement, “Getting rid of Osama bin Laden will benefit peace all over the world.”

News of the death of Mr. Bin Laden was the first item on Al Jazeera satellite channel based in Doha, Qatar, which quoted some terrorism experts as saying his death had symbolic importance but “may mean little for Al Qaeda’s capabilities.” It also said reaction from Al Qaeda and its sympathizers had been muted and there had been no formal comment on his death.

In Iran, the English-language state satellite broadcaster Press TV led its Web site with news of the State Department’s warning to Americans.

“Given the uncertainty and volatility of the current situation, U.S. citizens in areas where events could cause anti-American violence are strongly urged to limit their travel outside of their homes and hotels and avoid mass gatherings and demonstrations," Press TV quoted a statement by the State Department as saying.

News reports said American embassies around the world had been placed on a higher security alert, while the British foreign secretary, William Hague, said he had instructed British missions to maintain greater vigilance.

France called the killing “a major event in the struggle against terrorism.” But a statement from President Nicolas Sarkozy’s office said: “It is not the end of Al Qaeda.”


May 2nd, 2011, 07:19 AM
Bin Laden’s Death Doesn’t Mean the End of Al Qaeda


The death of Osama bin Laden robs Al Qaeda of its founder and spiritual leader at a time when the terrorist organization is struggling to show its relevance to the democratic protesters in the Middle East and North Africa.

Experts said Bin Laden had been a largely symbolic figure in recent years who had little if any direct role in spreading terrorism worldwide. While his death is significant, these officials said, it will not end the threat from an increasingly potent and self-reliant string of regional Qaeda affiliates in North Africa and Yemen or from a self-radicalized vanguard here at home.

“Clearly, this doesn’t end the threat from Al Qaeda and its affiliates,” said Juan Zarate, a top counterterrorism official under President George W. Bush. “But it deprives Al Qaeda of its core leader and the ideological cohesion that Bin Laden maintains.”

Obama administration officials said that despite Bin Laden’s waning influence over day-to-day operations in recent years, his capture or killing was a priority of intelligence, military and counterterrorism officials from the moment that Mr. Obama took office.

Administration officials predicted that without Bin Laden’s spiritual guidance — and his almost mystical ability to inspire followers by standing up to and evading American and allied efforts to hunt him down — Qaeda leaders’ efforts to obtain nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, and to use them against the United States, will weaken.

“Bin Laden was Al Qaeda’s only commander in its 22-year history and was largely responsible for the organization’s mystique, its attraction among violent jihadists and its focus on America as a terrorist target,” a senior administration official told reporters early Monday.

The official predicted that Bin Laden’s longtime Egyptian deputy, Ayman al-Zawahri, “is far less charismatic and not as well respected within the organization.” He will likely have difficulty maintaining the loyalty of Bin Laden’s followers, who are largely Arabs from the Persian Gulf and who are pivotal in supplying the organization with fighters, money and ideological support, the official said.

Indeed, the Al Qaeda of today is a much different organization than the one Bin Laden presided over on Sept. 11, 2001. It is much less hierarchical and more diffuse. And Al Qaeda’s main headquarters in Pakistan has come under withering attack from the Central Intelligence Agency ‘s armed drones.

Meantime, regional affiliates have blossomed in North Africa, Iraq, East Africa and Yemen. All have been personally blessed by Bin Laden, but each has developed its own strategy, fund-raising and recruiting methods.

That was Bin Laden’s vision from the start. Al Qaeda means “the base” in Arabic. His plan was to spin off terrorist subsidiaries that could request ideological guidance or material support from time to time, but were meant to be largely self-sustaining soon after they were launched.

Michael E. Leiter, the director of the National Counterterrorism Center, recently described the Qaeda affiliate in Yemen as posing the most immediate threat to the United States. It trained and deployed a young Nigerian man who tried to blow up a Northwest Airlines jet on Dec. 25, 2009. Last October, authorities thwarted a plot by the Yemen group to blow up Chicago-bound cargo planes using printer cartridges that were packed with explosives.

Terrorist training camps set up by Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups in the largely ungoverned wilds of Pakistan’s tribal border areas are likely to continue to turn out dozens of militants trained in explosives and automatic weapons, just like the young Moroccan man arrested last week in Germany and accused of plotting to attack the transportation system of a major German city.

Years before Bin Laden’s death — he has been heard from only rarely in recent years, in often-scratchy audio recordings — the mantle for the Qaeda brand has been taken up increasingly by Mr. Zawahri and, more significantly, by Anwar al-Awlaki, a leader of Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula who was born in New Mexico and who has American and Yemeni citizenship.

Mr. Awlaki uses idiomatic American English in his online speeches to extremists and potential recruits in the West. His followers and other radicals can learn all they need about building a crude bomb through instructions on the Internet.

American and European law enforcement officials say they worry most about Mr. Awlaki’s kind of “lone wolf” threat, which is much harder to detect than, say, the team that planned for years to attack the World Trade Center’s twin towers and the Pentagon.

It is an inauspicious time for Al Qaeda, as it seeks to exploit the fervor that has been unleashed in the democratic protests in the Middle East and North Africa. The demonstrators, however, have largely ignored Al Qaeda’s call to use violence to overthrow dictators and despots.

“Al Qaeda has been struggling on the sidelines of the Arab revolution, its popularity in Arab and Muslim countries has been declining and there are internal divisions about the direction of the movement,” Mr. Zarate said.

A senior Obama administration official echoed that sentiment, putting it this way: “Although Al Qaeda may not fragment immediately, the loss of Bin Laden puts the group on a path of decline that will be difficult to reverse.”

But even as he offered that assessment, he and other American officials warned of a possible series of attacks against the United States and Americans abroad to prove that the movement still poses a deadly threat. “Al Qaeda operatives and sympathizers may try to respond violently to avenge Bin Laden’s death,” the official said, “and other terrorist leaders may try to accelerate their efforts to strike the United States.”


May 2nd, 2011, 07:23 AM
Yeah, as suspected, there ARE some who might want to fill his shoes.

May 2nd, 2011, 07:26 AM
Off with his head!! The turban-wearing wimp is dead!!! :)

May 2nd, 2011, 07:27 AM
Why Bin Laden's Death No Longer Really Matters

Posted by Tony Karon

Before leaving for a vacation in South Africa in December of 2001, my editor asked me to prepare an obituary for Osama bin Laden for TIME.com on the assumption that he might well be killed in Afghanistan while I was on the beach in Cape Town. Almost ten years later there was finally a reason to call up the old file: President Barack Obama said late Sunday that the al-Qaeda leader had been killed in a U.S. raid in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad, and that the U.S. was in possession of his body.

But where killing or capturing Bin Laden might once have been imagined to be a decisive turning point in a struggle between the U.S. and its challengers in the Muslim world, today, the death of America's erstwhile nemesis is little more than an historical footnote -- a settling of accounts for a spree of ugly crimes and the elimination of a symbol of global jihadist nihilism, perhaps, offering justice and closure for the victims of 9/11 and other atrocities. But it does little to alter the challenges facing the U.S. and its allies in Afghanistan, Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan or any other major country in the Muslim world.

That's because much to his chagrin, Bin Laden and his movement have achieved only marginal relevance to power struggles throughout the Muslim world. The strategy of spectacular acts of a terror had briefly allowed a band of a few hundred desperadoes to dominate America's headlines and its nightmares, but on the ground in the Muslim world al-Qaeda had largely been a sideshow, failing miserably in its goal of rallying the Islamic world behind its banners and finding itself eclipsed by such despised rivals in the battle for Islamist leadership as Iran, Hizballah, Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.

Here's some of what I wrote in December 2001:
We can say with relative certainty that Osama bin Laden is not right now enjoying the attentions of 70 virgins in paradise. But with the same certainty we can predict that he will live on, years and even decades from now, on the T-shirts, key-chains and calendars of the Muslim world's malcontents. Indeed, in the rarefied climes of rebel icons, Bin Laden has become the Islamist Che Guevara.

It was long before September 11 that Osama bin Laden first chose to die. Authoring the most dramatic terror attack in history had simply compressed the timeframe of the inevitable ‘martyrdom' he first envisaged two decades earlier in the same mountains of southeastern Afghanistan where a simple TKTKTK ended his life on TKTK. The video spectacle of bin Laden cackling ghoulishly over the number of innocents his human bombs had killed in the World Trade Center will underscore the grim satisfaction in the West and among its allies in the east, near and far, at the Saudi terrorist's ignominious end. But the story of Bin Laden's rise is a cautionary tale of perils that persist despite the elimination of a man who had, of late, come to personify them.

Bin Laden's decision to sacrifice his life in service of an implacable pan-Islamic nationalism would likely have been taken two decades earlier, when the pious young Saudi multimillionaire first ventured into Afghanistan.
Back then, of course, he was an American ally, selflessly putting his fortune, his career and even his body on the line to rally Islamic firebrands from all over the world to help wage jihad against the Soviet infidels who had invaded Muslim lands.

That effort, covertly backed and orchestrated by the U.S. as well as Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan, saw an improbable triumph, as lightly-armed guerrilla forces put to flight the world's largest conventional army. But it had other, unintended consequences. The Afghan jihad had drawn together Muslim radicals from all over the world, and trained and organized them into an International Brigade of Islamist fighters, feeding off each other's extremism, their victory feeding fevered dreams of reviving the long-lost Islamic empire of old – or at least of being able to roll back contemporary foes in conflicts around the globe. (Had the Republican cause prevailed in Spain in the 1930, the Communist International would have found itself with a similar cadre of battle-hardened veterans ready for deployment in the world's sharpest class wars.)

The somewhat naïve but highly motivated bin Laden found himself in the orbit of hardened Islamist zealots from all over the world, his own views growing increasingly hard-line as he found himself assiduously courted particularly by the Egyptian radicals who saw his potential as a global terrorist leader in his wealth, his connections with Arab elites and his charisma.

For bin Laden and those around him, the message of the Soviet retreat was simple: armed with unshakable faith that they are soldiers of god and a willingness to die fighting, jihadists could prevail over ‘infidels.' The “Afghan Arabs” were not men who could easily return their own countries — Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other pro-Western Arab regimes had used the Afghan jihad as an opportunity to “export” their domestic Islamist nuisances, and weren't about to allow them back as combat-hardened warriors to renew their seditious efforts. Bin Laden shared their predicament. Afghanistan had hardened his opposition to the Saudi royal family, which failed to measure up to his measure of Islamic legitimacy. And when the king invited U.S. troops onto Saudi soil to defend the kingdom against any threat from Iraq, Bin Laden was outraged — a new set of infidels were being invited onto the sacred ground of Islam's birthplace. Bin Laden was now on a collision course with the House of Saud, and despite his family's deep-rooted ties to the royal family, he found himself expelled.

For Bin Laden, that was simply confirmation of the analysis he'd developed in Afghanistan: The undemocratic, un-Islamic regimes of the Arab world were but servants of the United States, whose presence and influence in the Arab and Muslim world was the prime obstacle to his dream of a pan-Islamic political revival. At bases in Afghanistan, and in the Sudan where an Islamist regime made room for him after his expulsion by the Saudis, bin Laden kept his Afghan Arabs together in his al-Qaeda organization. They were sent to fight in Chechnya, Bosnia and other places Muslims were under fire or waging separatist battles, spreading their example of selfless sacrifice to spread the tentacles of a global network whose ultimate confrontation would pit it against its supreme ‘infidel' enemy, the United States.

Bin Laden believed America could be beaten. His objective, after all, was not to conquer the U.S. but rather to end its presence and pervasive influence in the lands of Islam. Exhibit A was the U.S. withdrawal from Beirut in 1985, after Hizbollah blew up a Marine barracks there killing more than 200 U.S. troops. The bloody carnage of Mogadishu in 1993, in which 17 U.S. soldiers were killed in an abortive raid on a local warlord, also led to a hasty retreat -- today U.S. officials believe operatives linked with bin Laden helped train the Somali gunmen who ambushed the Americans. And in his propaganda, bin Laden certainly claimed the incident as further proof of his basic thesis — that the U.S. would withdraw from Muslim countries if the cost of staying was rendered too high.

Bin Laden and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad leaders at the helm of his movement had global ambitions quite unlike any terrorist organization that had gone before them. Previous terrorist luminaries such as the Palestinian Abu Nidal had generally led organizations drawn from a single country, and had been entirely dependent on state sponsors for sanctuary and survival — states such as Libya, Syria and Iran had all used such groups to send bloody political messages to their foes. Al Qaeda was different: its members were drawn from all over the Muslim world, their core cemented during the Afghan jihad; and they operated entirely independently of any state sponsorship. Indeed, far from such authoritarian precincts as Tripoli, Tehran and Damascus, al Qaeda preferred to establish its bases in locales where state authority had all but collapsed — Sudan, Somalia and Afghanistan.

And rather than slowly grow their organization from the ground up, bin Laden and his henchmen saw mergers-and-acquisitions as the way to go. The model, unconsciously, may have been the Communist International — Lenin in 1921 had managed to reproduce his Bolshevik party on a global scale by simply absorbing preexisting, ideologically compatible leftist parties from almost every country into a global umbrella organization.

Bin Laden set out the ideological basis for his Islamist International in his February 1998 statement declaring a “World Islamic Front for Jihad Against Crusaders and Jews.” It cited three key issues of universal concern to Muslims — the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia, the ongoing U.S. campaign against Iraq and the Israeli-Palestinian situation — and used these as a basis to call for a global war of terror against America and its allies. “To kill the Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) and the holy mosque (in Mecca) from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim.”

Back then, of course, bin Laden was a relative nobody in the Islamic world, and the only co-signatories of his jihad declaration were his Egyptian Islamic Jihad sidekick and/or mentor Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, and representatives of three even smaller groups from Egypt, Pakistan and Bangladesh. The Russian Revolution had communists from all over the planet rushing to join Lenin's international; bin Laden had yet to convince the world's radical Islamists of his own leadership credentials. That changed six months later, when bin Laden operatives blew up two U.S. embassies in East Africa. And the factor that made bin Laden the undisputed champion of the world's most radical lslamists was less the fact of the carnage he'd wrought simultaneously in Kenya and Tanzania, than the U.S. response. By firing off a slew of cruise missiles onto two continents in a vain bid to kill bin Laden and destroy his assets, the Clinton administration succeeded only in creating a fireworks display that heralded bin Laden's ordination as America's nemesis. For many Islamists skeptical of bin Laden's preposterous sounding claim to be leading a global jihad against America, Washington's response gave pause for thought -- a man that hated and feared by the U.S. had unrivaled claim to lead the Islamists. (At least that was what he was hoping.)

It was not Bin Laden's own actions, but the U.S. response to them, that had put him on the map, back in 1998. And that process was to be amplified in the years to come.
Well, yes, but only briefly. The U.S. invasions of Afghanistan and then Iraq put it in conflict with nationalist insurgencies in which al-Qaeda had a limited, if any role. By the middle of the past decade, already, the U.S. was talking of its prime adversary in the region as being an "Axis of Resistance" led by Iran and comprising Syria and non-state but nonetheless popular nationalist actors such as Hizballah in Lebanon and Hamas in the Palestinian territories. And that "resistance" front had little time for al-Qaeda, while Bin Laden's spokesmen reserved some of their most venomous rhetoric for Iran, Hizballah and Hamas.

Those groups remain far more powerful than al-Qaeda ever was because they're rooted in national movements and conditions, and have built popular support bases over many years. Just as Lenin's Comintern proved an unworkable model for global revolution, so did al-Qaeda prove to be a chimera. The center of gravity of opposition to the U.S. and its allies in the Muslim world remains with nationally-based movements who are confronting a specific enemy around a clear set of grievances and goals that are at least conceivably attainable. Hamas or Hezbollah are not much interested in restoring a Caliphate to rule from Spain to Indonesia; their goals are far more specific and localized. And in the end, while Bin Laden's movement could blow things up, it failed to ignite any sustainable forms of struggle – like Che Guevara (also remembered more as a T-shirt icon of rebellion than for his rather unfortunate ideas of how it should be pursued), Bin Laden found that simply taking spectacular military action against even a hated foe would not necessarily rally the masses to join him in struggle or confront their own local tyrants. (Indeed, as much as they hated the U.S., many Arabs seemed unable to “own” 9/11, instead blaming it on the CIA or the Mossad, insisting that “Arabs could not have done this.”)

No decent people will grieve at Bin Laden's passing. But nor will his elimination alter the challenges facing Washington in an Arab world that has found its own ways -- quite different from Bin Laden's -- for challenging the writ of the U.S. and its allies in the Muslim world. Bin Laden may have desperately sought the mantle of champion of Muslim resistance to the West, and a traumatized American media culture may have briefly granted him that role in the months that followed the horror of 9/11, but where it mattered most, among his own people, Bin Laden was an epic failure.

As I wrote (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2017444,00.html) last September,
Bin Laden's problem from the very beginning was that while (polls show) a majority of Muslims around the world might have agreed with his charge of U.S. malfeasance in its dealings in the Middle East, only a tiny minority identified with terrorism as a response. Despite the virulently anti-American attitudes revealed in opinion surveys in parts of the Muslim world after 9/11, very few people were prepared to condone attacks on innocent civilians. That's why so many people in Egypt and Pakistan bought into conspiracy theories about the CIA or Israel's Mossad being behind the attacks.

The ubiquity of bin Laden's image in the wake of the attacks suggested that he might become a kind of jihadist Che Guevara, destined to live on long after his death on an endless stream of T-shirts and tchotchkes. (Of course, he'd first have to be killed to test that theory.) But there's another connection: Like the Saudi jihadist, the Argentinian revolutionary had mistakenly assumed that simply demonstrating through violence that a hated enemy was not invulnerable would automatically rouse the masses to rebellion.

While the 9/11 attacks made bin Laden the focus of American fear and rage, his "global jihad" failed to either eclipse or enlist its more localized Islamist rivals. Hamas confined itself to striking Israeli targets, and to competing with Fatah for local political power at the ballot box and on the streets; Hizballah continued to lock horns with Israel on its northern border and to engage in the complexities of Lebanese politics; Iran actually helped the initial U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan, although it soon resumed its struggle with Washington and its allies for influence throughout the Middle East. Al-Qaeda may still figure in U.S. debate, but it no longer garners any attention in the Arab political conversation — prompting it to issue increasingly hysterical denunciations of Hamas, Hizballah and Iran.

The only al-Qaeda "chapter" to gain any traction was the one that came into existence in Iraq in response to the U.S. invasion, and thrived while its presence was tolerated as a force multiplier by mainstream Sunni insurgents.

But the group's ideology and propensity for vicious sectarian murder of Shi'ites turned the insurgents against them, and eventually the bulk of the insurgency turned on al-Qaeda, with many Sunni insurgents going onto the U.S. payroll under the rubric of the "Awakening" movement. (The uptick of al-Qaeda attacks in Iraq in recent months has coincided with the growing alienation of Sunnis, particularly in the "Awakening" movement, from the Shi'ite-led government. And a political solution to Iraq's political conflict will no doubt once again shut it out.)

A similar fate almost certainly awaits the movement in Afghanistan, where its erstwhile Taliban ally is fighting a nationalist campaign against foreign armies, which will inevitably end in a power-sharing political settlement. And even Taliban leaders have indicated they won't allow their territory to be used as a base to export terrorism.

If anything, hostility towards the U.S. in the Muslim world has actually escalated over the past nine years, because of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and Israel's conflicts with its neighbors. But al-Qaeda, ironically, remains on the margins. It's not inconceivable that bin Laden's men will get lucky again at some point in the future, but not even another major terror strike would change the basic calculus of al-Qaeda's demise.

May 2nd, 2011, 07:38 AM
"Vengeance is mine, says the Lord!! Isn't it funny how the worst heithans will try to get righteous when they know that the Lord is about to tap on their shoulders! Your soul may belong to the Lord, but your behind is mine!!!"

- Lawanda Page in Sanford and Son.

May 2nd, 2011, 11:27 AM
How the US tracked couriers to elaborate bin Laden compound

First intelligence of a courier, then an extraordinary house with high walls — and no telephone or Internet. Bin Laden and a son are among five killed in a firefight.

msnbc.com news services
updated 29 minutes ago 2011-05-02T14:48:10

It started with an unnamed courier.
Senior White House officials said Monday that the trail that led to Osama bin Laden began before 9/11, before the terror attacks that brought bin Laden to prominence. The trail warmed up last fall, when U.S. intelligence discovered an elaborate compound in Pakistan.
"From the time that we first recognized bin Laden as a threat, the U.S. gathered information on people in bin Laden's circle, including his personal couriers," a senior official in the Obama administration said in a background briefing from the White House.
After the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, "detainees gave us information on couriers. One courier in particular had our constant attention. Detainees gave us his nom de guerre, his pseudonym, and also identified this man as one of the few couriers trusted by bin Laden."
In 2007, the U.S. learned the man's name.
In 2009, "we identified areas in Pakistan where the courier and his brother operated. They were very careful, reinforcing belief we were on the right track."
In August 2010, "we found their home in Abbottabad," not in a cave, not right along the Afghanistan border, but in an affluent suburb less than 40 miles from the capital.
"When we saw the compound, we were shocked by what we saw: an extraordinarily unique compound."
The plot of land was roughly eight times larger than the other homes in the area. It was built in 2005 on the outskirts of town, but now some other homes are nearby.
"Physical security is extraordinary: 12 to 18 foot walls, walled areas, restricted access by two security gates." The residents burn their trash, unlike their neighbors. There are no windows facing the road. One part of the compound has its own seven-foot privacy wall.
And unusual for a compound valued at more than $1 million: It had no telephone or Internet service.
This home, U.S. intelligence analysts concluded, was "custom built to hide someone of significance."
Video: State Department issues travel advisory (http://javascript<b></b>:ijv.launchVideo('42853865');)
Besides the two brothers, the U.S. "soon learned that a third family lived there, whose size and makeup of family we believed to match those we believed would be with bin Laden. Our best information was that bin Laden was there with his youngest wife."
There was no proof, but everything seemed to fit: the security, the background of the couriers, the design of the compound.
"Our analysts looked at this from every angle. No other candidate fit the bill as well as bin Laden did," an official said.
"The bottom line of our collection and analysis was that we had high confidence that the compound held a high-value terrorist target. There was a strong probability that it was bin Laden."
That conclusion was reached in mid-February, officials said. Beginning in mid-March, the president led five National Security Council meetings on the plans for an operation.
On Friday, the president gave the order.
This information was shared "with no other country," an official said. "Only a very small group of people inside our own government knew of this operation in advance."
A senior U.S. security official told Reuters that it was a "kill operation," removing the option for the team to simply capture bin Laden.

The raid
The operation Sunday went smoothly except for a helicopter landing that was not part of the original plan. The choppers were only intended to hover over the scene, but due to a technical malfunction, one of them landed or fell — "not a crash," the official said — so the military dispatched a third "emergency" helicopter to the scene.
"This operation was a surgical raid by a small team designed to minimize collateral damage. Our team was on the compound for under 40 minutes and did not encounter any local authorities."
Bin Laden himself participated in the ensuing firefight, the officials suggested.
"Bin laden was killed in a firefight as our operators came onto the compound," an official said.
Did he fire?, a reporter asked.

Video: Details on US raid that killed bin Laden (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42853221/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/?gt1=43001#slice-1)
(on this page)

"He did resist the assault force, and he was killed in a firefight," an official said. NBC News reported that he was shot in the left eye.
Citing officials speaking at a White House briefing, Bloomberg News reported U.S. intelligence officers determined there was a "strong probability" the al-Qaida leader was living there (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-02/u-s-forces-were-unsure-bin-laden-in-house-until-meeting-him-face-to-face.html), but that the special ops team carrying out the mission was not certain if it even would encounter bin Laden in the compound until forces came face-to-face with him.
Four adult males were killed: bin Laden, his son, and the two couriers.
"One woman killed when used as a shield," and other women were injured, the officials said. The women's names were not given; it's not clear whether bin Laden's wife was among them.
The team blew up the disabled chopper upon their departure with bin Laden's remains, which resulted in a "massive explosion," the official told NBC.
Pakistan officials were unaware of the operation and scrambled fighter jets after getting reports of the explosion. But the U.S. helicopters were able to leave without further incident, the official said.

No U.S. personnel died. The officials would not name the type of helicopter or say how many U.S. personnel participated.
A U.S. official told NBC News that Obama was able to monitor the situation in real time from the Situation Room inside the White House.
Applause broke out in the room around 3:55 a.m. ET, when the team on the ground reported that the attack had killed bin Laden. Obama called his predecessors, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton, to inform them of the news, senior administration officials told NBC.
Video: US official: Bin Laden 'was hiding in plain sight' (http://javascript<b></b>:ijv.launchVideo('42853878');)An official told Reuters that CIA Director Leon Panetta and other intelligence officials also monitored the situation in real time from a conference room at the agency's Langley, Va. headquarters.
The official who spoke to NBC News described two moments in particular as "heartstopping": the moment the choppers arrived on the scene, and when they left the country.

Handling bin Laden's body
Early Monday, an official told NBC News that bin Laden's body had already been buried at sea — eliminating the possibility of a burial shrine.
Islamic tradition calls for a body to be buried within 24 hours, but finding a country willing to accept the remains of the world's most wanted terrorist would have been difficult, a senior administration official said.
The White House officials proclaimed bin Laden's death "the single greatest victory in the U.S.-led campaign against al-Qaida," as one called it.
The officials also said they expect attacks from bin Laden's loyalists who may step up the timing of previously planned operations.
"In the wake of this operation, there may be a heightened threat to the U.S. homeland. The U.S. is taking every possible precaution." The State Department has sent advisories to embassies worldwide and has issued a travel ban for Pakistan.
"Although al-Qaida will not fragment immediately," an official said, "the death of bin Laden puts al-Qaida on a path of decline that will be difficult to reverse."


Early Monday, an official told NBC News that bin Laden's body had already been buried at sea
As if the ocean doesn't have enough pollution. But let the sharks have him. A killer for killers.

May 2nd, 2011, 11:42 AM
Pics of people's reactions, including NYC:



Families of 9/11 victims cheer, cry over news of Bin Laden's death, worry about Al-Qaeda backlash
BY John Lauinger (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/John%20Lauinger) and Helen Kennedy (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Helen%20Kennedy)
Originally Published:Monday, May 2nd 2011, 1:33 AM
Updated: Monday, May 2nd 2011, 10:18 AM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/05/02/alg_groundzero_flag.jpg Bryan Pace for News
People gather after 1am at the World Trade Center site to celebrate the death of Osama Bin Laden.

Across New York, cheers rose and tears fell in the thousands of homes where dining tables still have empty places and altars to the 9/11 dead still flicker.
"I am thrilled. I am just really overwhelmed," said Barbara Salvadore, 52, who lost her brother, Fire Lt. Peter Freund.
"It was a long time coming," she said, tears thick in her voice.
She said she saw the news on TV and then her phone began filling with messages and calls from loved ones as far away as California.
"I am just grateful to all the servicemen who made this possible," she said. "I am proud to be an American."
Monica Fletcher, 80, whose son, Andre, 37, was a firefighter with Rescue 5 on Staten Island, said she thanked God.
"The man who killed my son is dead," she said.
She had hoped to see this day ever since the day he died, she said.
Alice Hoagland, 61, of Los Gatos, Calif., whose son Mark Bingham, 31, was killed on Flight 93, was so excited she could barely speak.
There was pure joy in her voice.

"We are, we are very relieved that Osama Bin Laden has met his end at the hands of the U.S. government," she said, and praised President Obama for staying the course.
"I am just delighted that he has just persevered for us 9/11 families, and he finally brought Osama Bin Laden down into the ground," Hoagland said.
She said she fears a backlash, however.
"I am concerned about a backlash from Al Qaeda. When you are dealing with terror, you can only expect horror and hardship and inhumane treatment. We have had enough of that," Hoagland said.
"I appeal to the Muslim world to decry terrorism and to root out terrorism within its own body."
Mayor Bloomberg said, "New Yorkers have waited nearly 10 years for this news."
After the tragedy at the twin towers, he said, "We gave our word as Americans that we would stop at nothing to capture or kill Osama Bin Laden.
"We have kept that word," he added.
Bin Laden's death "does not lessen the suffering that New Yorkers and Americans experienced at his hands, but it is a critically important victory for our nation," Bloomberg said.
Bloomberg said he hoped Bin Laden's demise would "bring some closure and comfort to all those who lost loved ones" that day.
Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) called it "a thunderous strike for justice" for the thousands murdered on 9/11.
"New York's heart is still broken from the tragedy of 9/11, but this at least brings some measure of closure and consolation to the victims and their families," he said.
Celebrations at firehouses
On the streets of the city, news spread from stranger to stranger on the sidewalk, and there were high-fives and cheers.
"He's dead!" crowed one man, who did some dance steps on Ninth Ave. People gathered outside bars cheered him on.
Fire Commissioner Salvatore Cassano said there were celebrations at firehouses across the city.
"Osama Bin Laden was responsible for killing 343 members of the FDNY on Sept. 11, 2001," he said.
"Tonight, in firehouses throughout the city, our members are grateful for the news, and thankful to all the brave members of the U.S. military that had a role in this successful operation."
Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.), commended both President Obama and former President George W. Bush for their "resolve in this long war against Al Qaeda."
"Today, the American people have seen justice. The leader of the United States' top enemy has gotten what he deserves," King said.

May 2nd, 2011, 12:05 PM
photo circulating of dead Osama a fake...

May 2nd, 2011, 12:13 PM

May 2nd, 2011, 12:54 PM

May 2nd, 2011, 01:05 PM
What is President O really doing in this vid? Did he actually kick a door like that? Nice one.

May 2nd, 2011, 02:10 PM

May 2nd, 2011, 03:43 PM
Curbed (http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/05/02/pricespotter_pakistan_edition.php) is on the case ...

PriceSpotter: Pakistan Edition

Here are those Abbottabad comps (http://www.zameen.com/Homes/Abbottabad-385-1.html) you know you were looking for, and a currency converter.
C'mon, was the place really worth $1 million? [Zameen]

May 2nd, 2011, 04:22 PM
It isn't a luxury residence. Bin Laden was living as a poor in a farm. These images remember me to Saddam Hussein when he was arrested in Iraq. Can someone lead the greater terrorist group in the world from that miserable HQ?

May 2nd, 2011, 05:49 PM
Please. Saddam was living like a rat underground. While Osama's house wouldn't make it into Architectural Digest, it was quite the compound on some good acreage and in a nice upscale suburban area (at least by Pakistani standards).

May 2nd, 2011, 10:26 PM
Camp Media is back.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6066/wtc285c.th.jpg (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/wtc285c.jpg/)

May 2nd, 2011, 11:12 PM
Camp Media is back.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6066/wtc285c.th.jpg (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/wtc285c.jpg/)

AMazing shots though of the reconstruction, remember not many people keep up with the work, so it is probably their first introduction to the new World Trade Center.

May 2nd, 2011, 11:20 PM
It isn't a luxury residence. Bin Laden was living as a poor in a farm. These images remember me to Saddam Hussein when he was arrested in Iraq. Can someone lead the greater terrorist group in the world from that miserable HQ?

Also, THIS guy, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who is in custody and is awaiting trial.

He wasn't exactly living in a deluxe apartment in the sky either! Hah!! Note the transformation from what he looked like when under the al Quaeda network (in bottom photo) to the time when he was captured. He went from ice cream to cow crap!! Hah!!

These guys seem to live high on the hog when they are with their operatives and plotting attacks, but when they are in hiding and are caught, they look like drunken filthy dirty bums living in the streets!!

Incidentally, it was HIM who had first thought about the plot to carry out the 09-11 terror attacks. He went to Binladen with the idea and Binladen liked it and put the plan into action.

May 3rd, 2011, 02:35 AM
Although I am glad that Osama is dead, because he caused so much pain for so many, I was a bit disgusted by the politicians already spinning it to their advantage. Sorry to say, I have to include Obama in this. I liked his speach overall, but why all the references to "I" did this, and "I" did that? It sounded like a campaign speach. I think he deserves credit for making the right decisions and getting Bin Laden, but I was a bit put off on the focus on himself, instead of the whole team that made this happen. I was also put off by some of the politicians that came on TV, trying to spin it one way or another.

Oh, and before I get jumped on, I am not a Bush supporter or an Obama hater. I like Obama personally, and think he is doing his best to do what is right was President. I was just put off a bit by all of the references to what "I" did to get Bin Laden. I have already talked to friends of mine who did not have this problem, so I know not everyone had this reaction.

Anyway, although it only brings grim satisfaction, I am glad Osama is gone. We need less evil in the world.

May 3rd, 2011, 06:40 AM
^ What the hell are you talking about?

May 3rd, 2011, 08:05 AM
We dont know who is right , who is wrong. Mostly people says that 9/11 incident was the drama of american government to start the war in Afghanistan. I would like to suggest you that don't celebrate the death of bin Laden. Al-Qaida has a network. Now should be careful because Obama can make more Osama.

Binladen had put his own spin on things. I'll NEVER forget those annoying terror-threat messages that used to come on the news! They would say something like;

"Another message has come from Osama Binladen and the al Quaeda network, saying that there will be another attack on America."

I'd get pissed off to no end of constantly hearing this about every 2 weeks, asking why is the media so damn quick to broadcast on the news that Binladen wants to launch another attack, but they can't seem to find him and bring him to justice!!

May 3rd, 2011, 09:29 AM
Now should be careful because Obama can make more Osama.Will the new Osama live in the same house in your country?

May 3rd, 2011, 11:45 AM
Please. Saddam was living like a rat underground. While Osama's house wouldn't make it into Architectural Digest, it was quite the compound on some good acreage and in a nice upscale suburban area (at least by Pakistani standards).

Maybe you're right, but the Spanish have a long experience in matters of terrorism, more than Americans. Unfortunately we suffered the scourge of the terrorist group ETA for more than 40 years. All terrorist groups are quite similar (Al-Qaeda, ETA, IRA, HAMAS ...). It is strange to see the poverty in which Bin Laden was living at Pakistan. Spanish and French police have arrested several times to the leaders of the terrorist group ETA and theirs vehicles, housing, weapons, munitions, computers, money ... were considerably higher.

Was it necessary navy seal units to arrest Bin Laden in Pakistan ? Must be a bad joke, because this work could be made in Spain by local police: Bin Laden's HQ is a waste !... I don't understand what's happened in USA about this issue, but a lot of people around the world is thinking that this story (Bin Laden's death) is a great lie, similar to a Hollywood movie or when americans arrive to the Moon,... you know hahaha :rolleyes:

We all wanna see the pics, images, videos and all material about Bin Laden's arrest, because there a lot of people thinking about it and they all say the same: it's a new lie of americans. That's the question.

May 3rd, 2011, 12:30 PM
Maybe you're right, but the Spanish have a long experience in matters of terrorism, more than Americans.But not with terrorists that are staying in a country armed with nuclear weapons, whose intentions are unclear.

All terrorist groups are quite similar (Al-Qaeda, ETA, IRA, HAMAS ...).Similar in what way?

It is strange to see the poverty in which Bin Laden was living at Pakistan.The US was funding $1 billion per year to Pakistan to combat terrorism. Assuming there was complicity by the Pakistani government in harboring Bin Laden, do you think it would have been wise to provide him with a luxury estate?

Was it necessary navy seal units to arrest Bin Laden in Pakistan ? Bin Laden's HQ is a wasteArrest? What are you talking about? The raid was conducted without the knowledge of Pakistani security. There was no way they were going to risk an international situation over who had jurisdiction over a captured Bin Laden.

It was done exactly as it should be done. Killed and sent to sleep with the fish.

Must be a bad joke, because this work could be made in Spain by local police:Local police? Bin Laden was in a foreign country. The ETA is where?

I don't understand what's happened in USA about this issue, but a lot of people around the world is thinking that this story (Bin Laden's death) is a great lie,To what purpose?

You can be in charge of the list. (http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-dead-persons-still-said-to-be-alive-after-death.php) I think Bin Laden should have no trouble getting on, but he'll have trouble bumping Elvis.

May 3rd, 2011, 01:37 PM
These guys really are a breed apart. A guy I worked with a long time ago had a friend who was a NS. He was given a mission to assassinate some high-ranking Chinese military bigwig. He's going through some jungle/wilderness area through a river, & he hears people coming. No where else to go, he sinks down under the surface of the water. The people were a Chinese military unit who would have killed him on the spot.
They decided to set up camp. This guy's only way out was to either give up, or stay where he was, which is exactly what he did for the next 2 days, under water. He was able to breathe through a bamboo chute. All the while, the enemy were washing there clothes & urinating only a few feet away, never knowing he was there. After 2 days, they picked up & left, & this NS carried out his mission.
Their commitment level & focus is just incredible.

Inside the SEAL team that 'doesn't exist'

'Quiet professionals' make up the fabled SEAL Team Six that reportedly killed bin Laden

NBC, msnbc.com and news services
updated 1 hour 28 minutes ago 2011-05-03T15:51:37

WASHINGTON — The raid that killed Osama bin Laden will earn permanent bragging rights for the the elite Navy SEAL team that carried it out.
The SEALs won't confirm they carried out the attack, but their current chief, Rear Adm. Edward Winters of the Naval Special Warfare Command in California, sent an email congratulating his forces and cautioning them to keep their mouths shut.
"Today we should all be proud. That handful of courageous men, of strong will and character, have changed the course of history," he wrote, adding, "Be extremely careful about operational security ... The fight is not over."
It was a warning few needed in the secretive group, where operators are uncomfortable with media coverage, fearing revealing details could let the enemy know what to expect the next time.
Even their families are kept in the dark about many of the details of their operations. "There's a lot of times too when they say, well I can't talk about that. And we don't know half the stuff... But what they can share they do when they get home," the wife of a SEAL told NBC News. The network revealed only her first name, Casey.
Eric Greitens, a former SEAL and author of "The Heart and the Fist," told NBC News that the unit that carried out the raid on bin Laden's compound was "the elite of the elite."
"The word is that when they heard that bin Laden was their target, there was a huge cheer that went up," Greitens said on NBC's TODAY. "These guys were excited for the mission, they had been practicing for months."
"They will be honored and revered," Greitens said of the group that carried out the mission. As for the man who fired the shot that killed him: "He's a hero in my mind, and I think for all Americans."
The SEAL team that raided bin Laden's compound reportedly came from a unit based in Dam Neck, Virginia, called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or "DEVGRU." They call themselves the "the quiet professionals."
Video: Practice makes perfect mission, former SEALs say (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42877036/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden#slice-1)(on this page)
SEAL Team Six raided targets outside war zones like Yemen and Somalia in the past three years, though the bulk of the unit's current missions are in Afghanistan.
The unit is overseen by the Joint Special Operations Command, which oversees the Army's Delta Force and other special units. JSOC's combined forces have been responsible for a quadrupling of counterterrorism raids that have targeted militants in record numbers over the past year in Afghanistan. Some 4,500 elite special operations forces and support units have been part of the surge of U.S. forces there.
CIA Director Leon Panetta was in charge of the military team during the covert operation, a U.S. official said. While the president can empower the SEALs and other counterterrorism units to carry out covert actions without CIA oversight, President Barack Obama's team put the intelligence agency in charge, with other elements of the national security apparatus answering to them for this mission.
Team Six 'doesn't exist'
SEAL Team Six actually works so often with the intelligence agency that it's sometimes called the CIA's Praetorian Guard — a partnership that started in Iraq as an outgrowth of the fusion of special operations forces and intelligence in the hunt for militants there.
SEALs and Delta Force both, commanded by then-JSOC chief Gen. Stanley McChrystal, learned to work much like FBI agents, first attacking a target, killing or capturing the suspects, and then gathering evidence at the scene.
McChrystal described it as building a network to chase a network, where the special operations forces work with intelligence analysts back at a joint operations center. The raiders, he said, could collect valuable "pocket litter" from the scene, like documents or computers, to exploit to hunt the next target.
The battlegrounds of Iraq and Afghanistan had been informally divided, with the SEALs running Afghanistan and Delta Force conducting the bulk of the operations in Iraq, though there was overlap of each organization. There is considerable professional rivalry between them.
Delta Force units caught Saddam Hussein late in 2003 and killed his sons Uday and Qusay in a shootout in Mosul earlier that year. Delta Force later tracked down al-Qaida in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, pinpointing the building where he sheltered for the aerial bombing that ended his life.
Video: New details on mission to kill bin Laden (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42877036/ns/world_news-death_of_bin_laden#slice-1)(on this page)
The race to be the unit that captured bin Laden had been on ever since.
"Officially, Team Six doesn't exist," says former Navy SEAL Craig Sawyer, 47, who advises Hollywood and acts in movies about the military.
After undergoing a six-month process in which commanders scrutinized his every move, Sawyer says he was selected in the 1990s to join the team.
"It was like being recruited to an all-star team," he said, with members often gone 300 days a year, only lasting about three years on the team before burning out.
"They train around the clock," he said. "They know that failure will not be an option. Either they succeed or they don't come home."
Other special operations units joke that "SEAL" stands for "Sleep, eat, lift," though the term actually stands for Sea, Air, Land.
"The SEALs will be the first to remind everyone that the 'L' in SEAL stands for land," says retired Army Gen. Doug Brown, former commander of U.S. Special Operations Command in Tampa, Florida. "They have skills on the land equal to their skills at sea."
Brown, who led the command from 2003-07, said the operation against bin Laden is the most significant mission conducted by U.S. commando forces since the organization was formed in 1987 in the wake of the failed attempt in 1980 to rescue the American hostages in Iran.


May 3rd, 2011, 01:46 PM
... why all the references to "I" did this, and "I" did that? It sounded like a campaign speach. I think he deserves credit for making the right decisions and getting Bin Laden, but I was a bit put off on the focus on himself, instead of the whole team that made this happen.

I was just put off a bit by all of the references to what "I" did to get Bin Laden. I have already talked to friends of mine who did not have this problem, so I know not everyone had this reaction.

This seems to be the current meme, that it was all about Obama. But it's a bunch of bunk ...

If you look at the transcript of Obama's speech (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-obama-speech-video-transcript_n_856122.html) you'll see he used "I' about 10 times in the course of the nearly 10-minute speech. Many referred to what Obama personally did, leading up to and after getting OBL:

"... I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda"

Only the President can give such a direction.

"Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts."

Note how he immediately credits his "team' for their actions.

This excerpt contains the most concentrated use of "I" (he said it 3 times here). But he's describing the actions he took as Commander in Chief. That's a one-person gig ...

... last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.

On the other hand, Obama used the word "we" about 75 times in the speech. One excerpt:

On September 11, 2001, in our time of grief, the American people came together. We offered our neighbors a hand, and we offered the wounded our blood. We reaffirmed our ties to each other, and our love of community and country. On that day, no matter where we came from, what God we prayed to, or what race or ethnicity we were, we were united as one American family.

We were also united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice. We quickly learned that the 9/11 attacks were carried out by al Qaeda -- an organization headed by Osama bin Laden, which had openly declared war on the United States and was committed to killing innocents in our country and around the globe. And so we went to war against al Qaeda to protect our citizens, our friends, and our allies.

Over the last 10 years, thanks to the tireless and heroic work of our military and our counterterrorism professionals, we’ve made great strides in that effort. We’ve disrupted terrorist attacks and strengthened our homeland defense. In Afghanistan, we removed the Taliban government, which had given bin Laden and al Qaeda safe haven and support. And around the globe, we worked with our friends and allies to capture or kill scores of al Qaeda terrorists, including several who were a part of the 9/11 plot.

And the President used the word "our" about 50 times in the speech, most notably in the final moments:

Finally, let me say to the families who lost loved ones on 9/11 that we have never forgotten your loss, nor wavered in our commitment to see that we do whatever it takes to prevent another attack on our shores.

And tonight, let us think back to the sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11. I know that it has, at times, frayed. Yet today’s achievement is a testament to the greatness of our country and the determination of the American people.

The cause of securing our country is not complete. But tonight, we are once again reminded that America can do whatever we set our mind to. That is the story of our history, whether it’s the pursuit of prosperity for our people, or the struggle for equality for all our citizens; our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place.

Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. May God bless you. And may God bless the United States of America.

May 3rd, 2011, 01:53 PM
Pakistan's Double Game

Andrew Sullivan (http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/05/pakistans-double-game.html)
3 May 2011

Salman Rushdie is rightly having (http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-02/salman-rushdie-pakistans-deadly-game/) none of it:

In the aftermath of the raid on Abbottabad, all the big questions need to be answered by Pakistan. The old flim-flam (“Who, us? We knew nothing!”) just isn’t going to wash, must not be allowed to wash by countries such as the United States that have persisted in treating Pakistan as an ally even though they have long known about the Pakistani double game—its support, for example, for the Haqqani network that has killed hundreds of Americans in Afghanistan.

This time the facts speak too loudly to be hushed up.

Osama bin Laden, the world’s most wanted man, was found living at the end of a dirt road 800 yards from the Abbottabad military academy, Pakistan’s equivalent of West Point or Sandhurst, in a military cantonment where soldiers are on every street corner, just about 80 miles from the Pakistani capital Islamabad. This extremely large house had neither a telephone nor an Internet connection. And in spite of this we are supposed to believe that Pakistan didn’t know he was there, and that the Pakistani intelligence, and/or military, and/or civilian authorities did nothing to facilitate his presence in Abbottabad, while he ran al Qaeda, with couriers coming and going, for five years?

May 3rd, 2011, 02:20 PM
I am not a Bush supporter or an Obama hater ... I was just put off a bit by all of the references to what "I" did to get Bin Laden.

And if you look at the text of Bush's 2003 "Mission Accomplished" speech (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/05/01/iraq/main551946.shtml) (8 years, to the day, prior to Obama's speech), you'll see that Bush used "I" about 6 times, "we" about 35 times and "our" about 30 times. That speech lasted about 2-1/2 minutes.

If you remember, Bush's speech declared that we had "prevailed in Iraq" - despite the fact that an additional 3,400 US service members were still to die (http://antiwar.com/casualties/) in that conflict.

No Americans were killed in the action described by Obama on this May 1st.

May 3rd, 2011, 02:41 PM
Death of a Madman

... he and his fellow psychopaths did succeed in killing thousands in North America and Western Europe, but in the past few years, their main military triumphs have been against such targets as Afghan schoolgirls, Shiite Muslim civilians, and defenseless synagogues in Tunisia and Turkey ... Obama's speech will be entirely worthless if he expects us to go on arming and financing the very people who made this trackdown into such a needlessly long, arduous and costly one.
What Obama does next will help define the legacy of Osama Bin Laden.

SLATE (http://www.slate.com/id/2292687/)
By Christopher Hitchens
May 2, 2011

There are several pleasant little towns like Abbottabad in Pakistan, strung out along the roads that lead toward the mountains from Rawalpindi (the garrison town of Pakistani's military brass and, until 2003, a safe-house for Khalid Sheik Muhammed). Muzaffarabad, Abbottabad … cool in summer and winter, with majestic views and discreet amenities. The colonial British—like Maj. James Abbott, who gave his name to this one—called them "hill stations," designed for the rest and recreation of commissioned officers. The charming idea, like the location itself, survives among the Pakistani officer corps. If you tell me that you are staying in a rather nice walled compound in Abbottabad, I can tell you in return that you are the honored guest of a military establishment that annually consumes several billion dollars of American aid. It's the sheer blatancy of it that catches the breath.

There's perhaps some slight satisfaction to be gained from this smoking-gun proof of official Pakistani complicity with al-Qaida, but in general it only underlines the sense of anticlimax. After all, who did not know that the United States was lavishly feeding the same hands that fed Bin Laden? There's some minor triumph, also, in the confirmation that our old enemy was not a heroic guerrilla fighter but the pampered client of a corrupt and vicious oligarchy that runs a failed and rogue state.

But, again, we were aware of all this already. At least we won't have to put up with a smirking video when the 10th anniversary of his best-known atrocity comes around. Come to think of it, though, he hadn't issued any major communiqués on any subject lately (making me wonder, some time ago, if he hadn't actually died or been accidentally killed already), and the really hateful work of his group and his ideology was being carried out by a successor generation like his incomparably more ruthless clone in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. I find myself hoping that, like Zarqawi, Bin Laden had a few moments at the end to realize who it was who had found him and to wonder who the traitor had been. That would be something. Not much, but something.

In what people irritatingly call "iconic" terms, Bin Laden certainly had no rival. The strange, scrofulous quasi-nobility and bogus spirituality of his appearance was appallingly telegenic, and it will be highly interesting to see whether this charisma survives the alternative definition of revolution that has lately transfigured the Muslim world. The most tenaciously lasting impression of all, however, is that of his sheer irrationality. What had the man thought he was doing? Ten years ago, did he expect, let alone desire, to be in a walled compound in dear little Abbottabad?

Ten years ago, I remind you, he had a gigantic influence in one rogue and failed state—Afghanistan—and was exerting an increasing force over its Pakistani neighbor. Taliban and al-Qaida sympathizers were in senior positions in the Pakistani army and nuclear program and had not yet been detected as such. Huge financial subventions flowed his way, often through official channels, from Saudi Arabia and other gulf states. As well as running a nihilist international, he was the head of a giant and profitable network of banking and money-laundering. He could order heavy artillery wheeled up to destroy the Buddhist treasures of Afghanistan in broad daylight. A nexus of madrassas was spreading the word from Indonesia to London, just as a nexus of camps was schooling future murderers.

And he decided to gamble all these ripening strategic advantages in a single day. Then, not only did he run away from Afghanistan, leaving his deluded followers to be killed in very large numbers, but he chose to remain a furtive and shady figure, on whom the odds of a successful covert "hit," or bought-and-paid-for betrayal, were bound to lengthen every day.

It seems thinkable that he truly believed his own mad propaganda, often adumbrated on tapes and videos, especially after the American scuttle from Somalia. The West, he maintained, was rotten with corruption and run by cabals of Jews and homosexuals. It had no will to resist. It had become feminized and cowardly. One devastating psychological blow and the rest of the edifice would gradually follow the Twin Towers in a shower of dust. Well, he and his fellow psychopaths did succeed in killing thousands in North America and Western Europe, but in the past few years, their main military triumphs have been against such targets as Afghan schoolgirls, Shiite Muslim civilians, and defenseless synagogues in Tunisia and Turkey. Has there ever been a more contemptible leader from behind, or a commander who authorized more blanket death sentences on bystanders?

Theocratic irrationality is not so uncommon that defeats like this are enough to render it unattractive. No doubt some braggarts will continue to tell instant opinion polls in the region that they regard him as a holy sheik or some such drivel. (Funny how those polls never picked up the local appetite for constitutional democracy.) With any luck, there will even be demented rumors that Bin Laden is not "really" dead. Fine: He'd probably already done the worst damage he was going to do. In anything describable as the real world, his tactics were creating antibodies and antagonists, or no longer matched observable conditions, or had at least hit diminishing returns. From Baghdad to Bali, it has been conclusively demonstrated that Bin-Ladenism is the cause of poverty, misery, and unemployment and not—as some know-nothings used to claim—a response to it.

The martyr of Abbottabad is no more, and the competing Führer-complexes of his surviving underlings will perhaps now enjoy an exciting free rein. Yet the uniformed and anonymous patrons of that sheltered Abbottabad compound are still very much with us, and Obama's speech will be entirely worthless if he expects us to go on arming and financing the very people who made this trackdown into such a needlessly long, arduous and costly one.

© 2011 The Slate Group, LLC.

May 3rd, 2011, 05:31 PM
This seems to be the current meme, that it was all about Obama. But it's a bunch of bunk ...

If you look at the transcript of Obama's speech (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-dead-obama-speech-video-transcript_n_856122.html) you'll see he used "I' about 10 times in the course of the nearly 10-minute speech. Many referred to what Obama personally did, leading up to and after getting OBL:

"... I directed Leon Panetta, the director of the CIA, to make the killing or capture of bin Laden the top priority of our war against al Qaeda"
Only the President can give such a direction.

"Tonight, I called President Zardari, and my team has also spoken with their Pakistani counterparts."
Note how he immediately credits his "team' for their actions.

This excerpt contains the most concentrated use of "I" (he said it 3 times here). But he's describing the actions he took as Commander in Chief. That's a one-person gig ...

... last August, after years of painstaking work by our intelligence community, I was briefed on a possible lead to bin Laden. It was far from certain, and it took many months to run this thread to ground. I met repeatedly with my national security team as we developed more information about the possibility that we had located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside of Pakistan. And finally, last week, I determined that we had enough intelligence to take action, and authorized an operation to get Osama bin Laden and bring him to justice.

I guess it would have gone better for the pundits (polarizing Republicans in hiding) if he had referred to himself as the third person... "the President of the USA did this", "the President called so and so"

Like Jimmy:

May 3rd, 2011, 05:52 PM
The SOB even had the nerve to grab a woman and try to shield himself behind her, and SHE was killed as well!!!

May 3rd, 2011, 05:53 PM
They're all cowards every single last one of them!

May 3rd, 2011, 06:07 PM
Yes they are, and they could give a crap less who goes down with them!!

When they are about to be killed, one or more very unfortunate souls are also taking the fall with them!!

May 3rd, 2011, 07:51 PM
It's been said that the woman who he pulled in front of him to shield himself was one of his wives.

May 3rd, 2011, 09:15 PM
The Mrs. Bin Ladens

<LI class=postDate>Posted: May 3, 2011 at 2:15 PM
By Noreen Malone (http://www.doublex.com/users/noreen-malone)
http://www.doublex.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large-image/110503_XXF_abaya.jpg More details have emerged this morning on who was inside the Abbottabad* complex (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/03intel.html?hp=&pagewanted=all) where Osama Bin Laden was killed on Sunday. The White House has corrected an erroneous earlier statement from official John Brennan (http://www.doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/bin-laden-used-wife-human-shield-says-white-house), who said that the woman who died in the gunfight was Bin Laden’s wife, and that he’d used her as a human shield. A wife of Bin Laden’s was injured but not killed (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54162.html), they’ve now clarified; it was “another guy’s wife” who died, according to the White House official who provided reporters an updated briefing last night. The official further said that he didn’t think any woman had been used as a shield. According to Pakistani intelligence as relayed by the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13263270) (with a grain of salt), survivors of the attack included a Bin Laden wife, a daughter of 12 or 13 who saw her father get shot, and eight or nine children of unidentified parentage; they’d been in the compound for “several months.” (Time reports, via Leon Panetta (http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g60827-d1007626-Reviews-Hotel_Le_Jolie-Brooklyn_New_York.html), that the Bin Laden family had in fact probably been in the compound since 2005.)
The human shield detail was seized on so eagerly yesterday perhaps because it seemed a fittingly monstrous an end to Bin Laden’s life. But the narrative wasn’t quite so neatly tied up after all—and neither was Bin Laden’s relationship with his wives quite so black-and-white, at least as portrayed in the 2009 book co-written by his first wife and fourth son, Omar, Growing Up Bin Laden (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312560877/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=slatmaga-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399349&creativeASIN=0312560877).

It’s a rather reticent account. I kept waiting for the dramatic turn in which Najwa renounced the husband she’d left shortly before 9/11. It never came. The exact reasons she left her husband remain a little murky: pressure from her son, worry about her children’s safety, her husband’s increasing distraction from family life. Never, though, does she say clearly that she found anything morally repugnant about the terrorism network he’d built. She writes: “I was not seeking a divorce. In fact, on the morning I was leaving, I presented my husband with a round ring, a token of our years together.”

Najwa participated in the book at the request of Omar, who has publicly renounced his father. But she herself didn’t want to “hurt” Osama, according to the ghostwriter. Instead, she offers up a series of domestic details from the initially “sun-drenched” marriage that started when she was 15: Osama’s timidness ("shyer than a ‘virgin under the veil’")the zucchini dish that was Bin Laden’s favorite, the care he took with his appearance.
Najwa also discusses her initial resistance to Osama’s desire to take another wife. Eventually, it was his argument that he wanted more children to carry on the Muslim faith that convinced her. He’d take several more wives throughout the '80s and '90s—two teachers from Jeddah, the sister of one of the men he’d fought with in Afghanistan, an unidentified woman with whom the unconsummated marriage was annulled after 48 hours, and Amal Al-Sadah, the Yemeni wife (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article6999835.ece) presumed to be with him in the compound—and would father anywhere between 19 and 26 children, according to various accounts. Two of his wives even went into labor at the same time, with Bin Laden speeding them both to the hospital in his beloved Mercedes.
While Omar Bin Laden is less kindly toward Osama, he admits that “I never heard him shout at his mother, his sisters, my mother, or my sisters. I never saw him strike a woman. He reserved all the harsh treatment for his sons.” But Osama didn’t totally treat them delicately; at one point, after he’d moved the family to Khartoum, Bin Laden had his daughters and wives join in survival training, and he even taught them how to use guns, convinced they might need the skill to protect themselves. His second wife divorced him during this period.
Najwa isn’t the only Bin Laden wife who offered an account of life with the terrorist. In 2002, the pseudonymous A.S., rumored to be the Yemeni bride who was also probably the woman wounded on Sunday, told London-based Arabic-language weekly Al-Majallah (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/media_reports/1871182.stm) that she didn’t know about the 9/11 attacks and Bin Laden didn’t talk to her about the embassy bombings even after the fact, though he talked about the U.S. as enemy No. 1 constantly. Separated from him at the time, she said, "I feel deep inside me that he is still alive." It’s an odd thing to consider the domestic life of a man who was such a force for evil in the world—and even odder to ponder the loyalty his wives, through whatever combination of personal connection and cultural mores, seemed to feel for him.
Photograph of a woman in an abaya by STR/AFP/Getty Images.
*Correction, May 3, 2011: Abbottabad was misspelled in the original version of this post.


I'm surprised he didn't order his wife beheaded when she asked him for a divorce.

May 3rd, 2011, 09:27 PM
As heard earlier this evening:

"DT, BO here. Who got fired? I was otherwise detained.

Oh, and one other thing ..."


That's hilarious!

May 3rd, 2011, 09:42 PM
The Mrs. Bin Ladens

The Arab wing of Branch Davidians (http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_branc.htm):

... He’d take several more wives throughout the '80s and '90s—two teachers from Jeddah, the sister of one of the men he’d fought with in Afghanistan, an unidentified woman with whom the unconsummated marriage was annulled after 48 hours, and Amal Al-Sadah, the Yemeni wife presumed to be with him in the compound—and would father anywhere between 19 and 26 children ...

Probably a very different flag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidians), though.

May 4th, 2011, 01:40 PM
CNN is now reporting that the White House will NOT be releasing the photos of a dead Osama...

May 4th, 2011, 01:43 PM
There's no good reason to.

May 4th, 2011, 02:09 PM
There's no good reason to.

The only reason is to appease the doubters, but the White House obviously realized that those people would never be satisfied

May 4th, 2011, 02:55 PM
If they were to release them, no matter who releases them, there will always be people who say "How do we know that's not doctored, or one of his doppelgangers?" I also wouldn't be too surprised if they were leaked.

Even if they were to put his body on display to the public, some people wouldn't believe it was him anyway.

Didn't know the Davidians were still around. Wow. Checked out the link for a minute or two & decided I didn't want to go any further.

I was afraid bin laden had more than a few offspring. More chances of a mini-me being groomed as the next leader in the family.

May 4th, 2011, 03:13 PM
Obama decides against releasing bin Laden death photos

By the CNN Wire Staff
May 4, 2011 3:09 p.m. EDT


White House spokesman says the decision came after a full discussion
"We don't trot out this stuff as trophies," Carney quotes Obama as saying
Security interests a major factor in the decision, Carney says

Washington (CNN) -- President Barack Obama has decided not to release any of the photographs of "the deceased Osama bin Laden," White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said Wednesday.
The decision came after a lengthy discussion with top Cabinet and security officials, Carney said, reiterating "there is no doubt we killed Osama bin Laden."
Carney cited security concerns as well as the desire to avoid a perception of U.S. gloating.
"We don't trot out this stuff as trophies," Carney quoted Obama as saying in an interview earlier Wednesday with the CBS program "60 Minutes."
"This is somebody deserving of the justice he received," Obama said in the interview, according to Carney. "But we don't need to spike the football."
In particular, Carney cited a heightened national security risk from release of the photos and said Obama's top priority remained the safety of Americans at home and abroad.
"There's a discussion to be had about pros and cons, and the president engaged in that discussion and made the decision," Carney said.
Later, he said: "There is no question at all that Osama bin Laden is dead. He will not walk this Earth again."

May 4th, 2011, 03:22 PM
So was he on dialysis after all or was that just a bunch of BS? People assumed he died in a cave because he needed a lot of medical attention he wouldn't be able to get access to

May 4th, 2011, 04:40 PM
The Obama Administration has just recently confirmed that it will NOT allow the pics of Binladen after he was killed, to be shown, for fear that doing so might spark an outbreak of outrage and maybe retaliation from Islamic groups who supported Binladen in his terrorist beliefs.

May 4th, 2011, 04:56 PM
Slept in today?

May 4th, 2011, 05:21 PM

May 4th, 2011, 05:32 PM
No pics, but there is this:


May 4th, 2011, 05:39 PM
Three guesses (no peeking!): Who can't wait to see the photos (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/05/obama-i-wont-release-bin-laden-death-photos.html)?


"This should be a campaign platform for any GOP hopeful: release the monster's photos."


May 4th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Fragmenting? Cut off the head & work our way down.

Wed May 4, 12:03 pm ET
Al Qaeda member surrenders, Saudi Arabia says

By Laura Rozen (http://news.yahoo.com/bloggers/laura-rozen)

In the wake of Osama bin Laden's demise, is al Qaeda falling apart?
The Saudi Interior Ministry said today that a senior al Qaeda member on Riyadh's most-wanted list named Khaled al-Qahtani called from abroad and turned himself in.
"Interior Ministry's spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour Al-Turki said in a statement Wednesday that Khaled Hathal Abdullah al-Atifi al-Qahtani contacted the security authorities from an undisclosed country and expressed his wish to come home," the Associated Press reports (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/dailynews/news/yblog_theenvoy/ts_yblog_theenvoy/storytext/al-qaeda-member-surrenders-saudi-arabia-says/41334968/*http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110504/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_saudi_al_qaida).
"Al-Qahtani was reunited with his family and his surrender will be taken into consideration while looking into his case,(?!?) Al-Turki said."
The Saudi Interior Ministry spokesman did not indicate when Khaled al-Qahtani gave himself up, but many members of the group's Yemeni wing, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), have recently fled from Yemen, the AP writes.
It wasn't immediately possible to ascertain whether Khaled Al-Qahtani is the brother or relative of Mohammed al-Qahtani, a Saudi-born al Qaeda militant detained at the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Mohammed al-Qahtani, now 32, had been picked up in the battle of Tora Bora in Afghanistan from which bin Laden is believed to have escaped.
UPDATE: The two men are not brothers, Gregory Johnson, a Yemen expert with Princeton University, told the Envoy:
"Al-Qahtani is a common Saudi name and there are many individuals in AQAP with that name...They may be related in some other more distant way."


May 4th, 2011, 08:40 PM
Not going to happen. Nor should it; they'll be marked men for the rest of their lives.

Americans yearn to talk to SEALs in bin Laden raid

By JULIE WATSON, Associated Press Julie Watson, Associated Press – 27 mins ago

SAN DIEGO – Patrons in bars across the country are raising toasts in the air, hoping the gesture of gratitude would somehow reach the clandestine Navy SEAL team that took down Osama bin Laden. Millions of others are turning to social networks with their thoughts.
For many of them, it feels frustratingly incomplete to be deprived the chance to see the faces of those they consider heroes for killing the world's most-wanted terrorist.
Scores of people responded to the question posed by The Associated Press on its Facebook page: "What would you tell the Navy SEAL team that killed Osama bin Laden if you could convey a message?"
"I don't know what is more impressive — that you did this with such excellence and secrecy, or that this was just another day at the office," Pamela Jardieu-Aderman responded. "Thank you to all of the SEALS for a lifetime of sharp swords and full hearts... you guys make America extremely proud, even though we never get to tell you to your faces."
The 40-year-old freelance grant writer and photographer from Utica, N.Y., said in a follow-up e-mail to the AP that she is glad the SEALs' identities are not being revealed to protect them, but she wishes there was some way the nation could show its gratitude on a large-scale. She suggested a tribute in the form of a White House electronic bulletin board for messages, or a national day of volunteerism, or a ceremony for the SEALs.
Chicago alderman James Balcer, a Marines veteran, said he would like the city to hold a ticker-tape parade for the unit.
Obama planned to visit New York City's ground zero on Thursday and meet privately with family members of the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks at the hands of bin Laden's al-Qaida organization.
Jardieu-Aderman said she and her husband donated to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in honor of the elite group that raided the compound Sunday in Pakistan. The Virginia-based Navy SEAL Foundation, which helps the families of SEALs, says their donations have surged dramatically since the news of the raid.
Nick Flener, 26, a veterinarian in Buena Park, Calif., said he was skeptical, and that the government's limited information was only feeding suspicions.
"First I would like to know their names and find out why such a historic event is shrouded in so much secrecy," Flener told the AP in an e-mail.
Gauging how much to tell is a challenge as military special operation groups increasingly work side-by-side with the intelligence community, as the SEALs and the CIA did Sunday. Such covert operation groups are being relied upon more to go after terrorists, and any publicized details of their investigations could make their jobs harder, officials say.
But touting their success also has benefits: A U.S. House committee on Wednesday approved $10.5 billion for Special Operations Command, which oversees the Navy SEALs unit in the bin Laden mission. The amount represents a 7 percent increase from current levels.
That elite SEAL unit is known as Naval Special Warfare Development Group, or "DEVGRU." It is made up of a few hundred personnel, and revealing their names would make them a target, Navy officials say. The SEALs are now resting at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, D.C., and will likely be honored privately.
In Virginia Beach, Va., where the team is based, the mayor wanted to throw a parade. City spokeswoman Mary Hancock said the Navy told them that it appreciated the offer but the secretive force — who call themselves "the quiet professionals" — would rather avoid the attention.
That's understood by those who live in Virginia Beach, many of whom served in the military or know someone who does. Neighboring Norfolk is home to the world's largest Naval base.
"These guys are local boys, and I'm sure that they won't ever take credit for it, being the type of people that they are," said Michael Doyle, a 39-year-old former operations specialist aboard the USS Mount Whitney. "But it makes you proud to be an American — that's for sure."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_heroes (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden_heroes)

May 4th, 2011, 10:13 PM
Obama Ground Zero visit details: President to visit first responders, lay wreath amid tight security

BY Alison Gendar (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Alison%20Gendar), Rocco Parascandola (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Rocco%20Parascandola) AND Corky Siemaszko (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Corky%20Siemaszko)
Originally Published:Wednesday, May 4th 2011, 1:28 PM
Updated: Wednesday, May 4th 2011, 3:06 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/05/05/alg_obama_ground_zero.jpg Chris Carlson/AP
President Obama visited Ground Zero as a presidential candidate in 2008.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/05/05/amd_sept_11_rubble.jpg Ted Warren/AP/AP
Rescue workers sift through the wreckage of the World Trade Center in 2001.

President Obama will make no triumphal speech when he visits Ground Zero on Thursday to mark the death of Osama Bin Laden - the monster who brought the Twin Towers down.

Instead, Obama will lay a wreath in the memory of the thousands who died in the Sept. 11 attacks and save his words for private chats with relatives and friends of the victims gathered in the crucible of New York City's pain.

"The power of that requires no words," White House spokesman Jay Carney said of the planned wreath-laying ceremony. "It will be a bittersweet moment for many of the families."

Obama is expected to spend about three hours at Ground Zero - his first visit to the site since 2008, when he was running for president.

The President has marked subsequent 9/11 anniversaries in Washington and was expected to return to New York this September for the 10th anniversary.

The successful killing of Bin Laden on Sunday, which capped a frustrating, decade-long manhunt for the terrorist, changed Obama's itinerary, officials said.

Before going Downtown, Obama will meet with some of the city's Bravest who lost colleagues in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Although the police have received no credible reports of threats against Obama, there will be numerous street closings wherever the presidential motorcade rolls, sources said.

Mailboxes and garbage cans along the motorcade route will be removed to deny would-be terrorists a place to plant a bomb - and manholes covers may be welded shut.

Police sharpshooters will be patrolling the rooftops, sources said.

In addition to a "major uniformed police presence," sources said plainclothes cops will be out in force to protect the President.

Also, PATH service in and out of the World Trade Center will be suspended while Obama is in the neighborhood.

Obama's visit comes just days after he green-lighted the Navy SEAL assault that wiped out Bin Laden at his hideout in Pakistan.

Obama's upcoming visit harkens back to then-President George W. Bush's journey to the site days after the 9/11 attacks, when he famously grabbed a bullhorn and rallied the nation from atop the pile of rubble.

Bush, who was one of the first people Obama called when Bin Laden was bagged, declined an invitation to join in the visit to Ground Zero.

Obama has also invited Rudy Giuliani, who was New York's mayor during those dark days, sources said.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/05/04/2011-05-04_obama_ground_zero_visit_details_president_to_vi sit_first_responders_lay_wreath_a.html#ixzz1LRLkmC bQ

May 4th, 2011, 11:06 PM
Bali bomber Umar Patek helped lead world to Osama bin Laden's hideaway (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bali-bomber-umar-patek-helped-lead-world-to-osama-bin-ladens-hideaway/story-fn8ljzlv-1226050116997)

Amanda Hodge in Abbottabad and Peter Alford From: The Australian May 05, 2011 12:00AM

The arrest in Abbottabad of Patek, the last major figure who was still at large for the 2002 Bali attacks that killed 202 people, including 88 Australians, has raised a critical question: did Patek give vital information to the mission to kill bin Laden, or did his arrest by Pakistani intelligence risk upsetting the American operation?

Patek was arrested on January 25, nine days after stopping in the mountain garrison town on his way to meet senior al-Qa'ida leaders in North Waziristan.

Indonesia Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro said yesterday: "The information that we have with Umar Patek (and about) why he was in Pakistan . . . is (he was) trying to meet with Osama bin Laden."

That information will spark intense interest from intelligence authorities, given suggestions that Patek, an explosives expert with high-ranking contacts within al-Qa'ida, may have been hoping to confer with bin Laden over a planned terror strike to mark the 10th anniversary this year of the September 11 attacks.

The revelations came as US officials provided more details of the Special Forces raid that killed bin Laden early on Monday.

US security officials admitted yesterday that, contrary to earlier reports, bin Laden had been unarmed and did not use a woman as a shield when he was shot dead by US Navy SEALs.

Bin Laden's body was buried at sea soon after the raid, which also killed one of his sons and several other occupants of the sprawling compound in Abbottabad.

Questions were being raised yesterday about the welfare and fate of bin Laden's wives and children. Pakistan's Foreign Ministry said the bin Laden family was "all in safe hands and being looked after in accordance with law".

"Some of them needing medical care are under treatment in the best possible facilities," a spokesman said. "As per policy, they will be handed over to their countries of origin."

The Australian understands that Saudi authorities have refused to accept custody of as many as nine children found in the compound. The Islamic kingdom rescinded bin Laden's citizenship in 1994 for suspected terror activities. Yemeni embassy officials in Islamabad said yesterday that the Pakistani government had not approached them about the welfare of the children and would not comment any further.

At least one of bin Laden's wives in Pakistan is a Yemeni doctor and as many as nine children are believed to have been living at the sprawling Abbottabad compound, although it is not known how many of them were fathered by the Saudi-born terrorist.

It is believed bin Laden's oldest child at the compound, a 13-year-old, watched her father die.

In Abbottabad yesterday, Pakistani security officers once again closed off the leafy suburb of Bilal Town where bin Laden and his family lived - according to US authorities - for up to five years. Intelligence officials sifted through the compound and Army chief General Ashfaq Kayani flew in to inspect the site.

As many as 50 Bilal Town residents are believed to have been detained and questioned since Monday's raid.

Yesterday, more details emerged about the secret life of the bin Laden family behind the 5.5m security walls and barbed wire. One neighbour told The Australian the residents were virtually self-sufficient, growing their own vegetables and digging their own water well.

Despite all attempts to fly under the radar in the close, affluent suburb of businessmen and serving and retired army officers, occasional trips by the women outside the compound always sparked curiosity, given the fact that they emerged in darkened vehicles in full burkas.

The inevitable question now is whether bin Laden was able to come and go in one of Pakistan's most secure cities - under the noses of senior army officers and police - under cover of a burka.

Several analysts yesterday conceded the fact that two of the world's most wanted terrorists - who fought the Soviets together in Afghanistan in the 1980s - were hiding in the same Pakistani town at the same time was a remarkable, even improbable, coincidence.

While US authorities have maintained they tracked bin Laden through his courier, Pakistan's highest selling Urdu newspaper, Jang , yesterday reported, without attribution, that the final clues leading to bin Laden's hideout were extracted from Patek under ISI interrogation and handed to the CIA.

Retired Pakistani general turned security analyst Talat Masood told The Australian yesterday "it is highly possible" that Patek's arrest was the final nail in bin Laden's coffin. "His arrest was almost certainly quite significant in that sense," he said.

But Indonesian Defence Minister Purnomo Yusgiantoro, when asked yesterday whether Patek had yielded information leading to bin Laden, said: "We don't yet have that information from the US."

Speculation that Patek gave up information that assisted the US mission has been fanned by Pakistani officials desperate to rebut US accusations that people in their intelligence and military community helped bin Laden to settle and remain hidden in Abbottabad.

US officials claim - and it is not denied by Pakistan's Directorate of Inter Services Intelligence, which is notorious for its continuing associations with bin Laden's Afghan Taliban allies - that Patek was caught on a tip-off from the CIA. It was ISI, however, that captured and "processed" Patek and still holds him incommunicado in Lahore.

The Americans principally suspect ISI of helping bin Laden hide, which raises the possibility the leaking of Patek's arrest in Abbottabad might have jeopardised the US mission by alerting bin Laden that his Indonesian admirer had been caught close by - as the result of a CIA tip-off. As it turned out, the fact of Patek's arrest remained secret for nine weeks, until a US news agency found out.

Even then, though rumours were widespread that Patek had been taken well before late March, as the Pakistanis and Indonesians claimed, the place of his arrest remained secret until several hours after bin Laden was killed.

Indonesia's Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa's refused "for operational purposes" to confirm Patek's arrest when it leaked out on March 30. Mr Natalegawa, sitting beside Kevin Rudd at a Bali press conference that day, did not explain what operational ramifications he was referring to.

But he was visibly annoyed by the Australian Foreign Minister's statement: "For us, it is clear that Patek has been arrested . . . a potential major step forward in the fight against terrorism."

May 5th, 2011, 09:45 AM
The pictures would be overkill (no pun).

You do not provide a group with a propensity for martyrdom a picture of their dead (former) leader.

As for the nay-sayers... well we all know that people who neigh too much are all a bunch of.... donkeys anyway.

May 5th, 2011, 11:42 AM
Osama Bin Square Pants


May 5th, 2011, 01:32 PM
I looked at the photos of a couple of other guys taken out during the raid on Bin Laden's lair.

Not pretty and looks really painful. Kind of belies the idea that death of this sort is some sweet end leading to paradise.

Could make a kid think twice about pursuing a life of martyrdom. Or not.

May 5th, 2011, 01:49 PM
He's being being devoured by 20 million virgins (maggots) right about now. Enjoy

May 5th, 2011, 02:15 PM
"There's already been some trouble for Osama bin Laden in the afterlife. There was a mix up and he was greeted by 72 vegans."
_David Letterman

May 5th, 2011, 02:37 PM

May 5th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Dead Man of the Year?

May 5th, 2011, 02:44 PM
for those that must see, here is a link that shows actual pics of bin laddens associates killed by team 6 - WARNING: VERY graphic

May 5th, 2011, 03:06 PM
By associates... do you mean, you know, like "Associates". [/Brooklyn accent]

May 5th, 2011, 04:32 PM
Posted by hbcat:

Bali bomber Umar Patek helped lead world to Osama bin Laden's hideaway (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bali-bomber-umar-patek-helped-lead-world-to-osama-bin-ladens-hideaway/story-fn8ljzlv-1226050116997)

This guy's as good as dead.

May 5th, 2011, 05:45 PM
A son of his, according to the computer animation on the news, was also shot and killed. Binladen took 2 bullets; one in the chest and one in the head.

The woman who was said to be his wife, had started coming toward the officers. She was taken out by a bullet in the ankle and then one in the chest as well, I think.

May 5th, 2011, 06:51 PM
As long as we're speculating...

Bin Laden had 6 wives, about a dozen children, and never went out.

When the kill team entered the compound, Bin Laden said, "Please shoot me."

I think.

May 5th, 2011, 09:29 PM
seen on the web:
A guy walks into a bar and asks the bartender for a BIN LADEN. The bartender asks what's a BIN LADEN. The guy replies 2 shots and a splash of water

May 5th, 2011, 09:53 PM
We have a bit of a problem, in the OBL raid the Navy Seals used a top secret stealth helicopter that no one had ever seen before. They tried to destroy the one that stalled but left behind lots of pieces including all of the tail fin:


Some are speculating the Pakistanis are going to sell the technology to the Chinese. Kids were seen running away from the compound in abbottabad carrying little pieces of the chopper

Numerous media organizations, including CNN, ABC News and the Army Times, reported the Stratford-made Black Hawks had secret stealth features that included noise-canceling modifications. Domes above the rotors and devices that lowered the decibel sounds of the motors created the illusion that the helicopter was moving away from the observer, while in fact, it was actually approaching.

Using a special radar-evading variant of the special operations MH-60 Black Hawk, the SEALS were able to land undetected in bin Laden's Abbottabad, Pakistan, compound. Residents of Abbottabad -- and the Pakistan military -- did not report hearing the helicopters approaching their city.


May 5th, 2011, 10:03 PM
That would have happened sooner or later.

May 5th, 2011, 10:24 PM
Domes above the rotors and devices that lowered the decibel sounds of the motors

They should make those a requirement for all the choppers that fly low around NYC.

May 5th, 2011, 10:37 PM
I bet that eventually this will become a standard feature.

May 6th, 2011, 01:52 AM
new pic of that secret new stealth chopper

May 6th, 2011, 08:01 AM
Is that a compound wall behind it, or did it crash somewhere else?

May 6th, 2011, 08:33 AM
It is a start, but the materials were probably already known and the tail fin is not the makings of a complete vehicle....

I am hoping that enough of what makes that vehicle possible was not surrendered to hostile hands (that, coincidentally, own a good portion of the US and, most likely, the companies that helped make this thing anyway.....).


May 6th, 2011, 09:40 AM
Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death, vows revenge (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-binladen-qaeda-confirmation-idUSTRE74528A20110506)

May 6th, 2011, 10:18 AM
Al Qaeda confirms bin Laden death, vows revenge (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/06/us-binladen-qaeda-confirmation-idUSTRE74528A20110506)

"We warn the Americans not to harm the corpse of the sheikh or expose it to any indecent treatment or to harm any members of his family, living or dead, and to deliver the corpses to their families," it said.

"Any harm done will open the doors of evil upon you doubly, and you will not have anyone but yourselves to blame."

Don't worry holy warrior folks, you can have the body and do whatever you want. This will get you started:


May 6th, 2011, 11:44 AM
"Open the doors of evil upon you DOUBLY" ???

They're either open or not.

May 6th, 2011, 11:46 AM
Right now they're closed



May 6th, 2011, 11:59 AM
And they think it's now like this - 12916

May 6th, 2011, 12:21 PM


National Journal cover story here (http://nationaljournal.com/magazine/the-cost-of-bin-laden-3-trillion-over-15-years-20110505?print=true).

May 6th, 2011, 12:29 PM
"Open the doors of evil upon you DOUBLY" ???

They're either open or not.

That's right, smart-alecky infidel -- keep in up ;-).

I think it means "two-fold" + metaphorical door -- i.e. evil will be meted out in this world and the next.

May 6th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Threats usually lose something in the translation.

Basically they want something they know they will probably not get, and know that with that rejection they can raise ire and objection to with the locals.

Win-win for their mantra. We give him, they have a martyr and a memorial. We do not, they have something "to fight for" or against, however you may want to frame it.

The one thnig we must always realize is that poo is poo. You can take poo very seriously, it is a solid substance and can cause you harm, but allowing it more consideration than what poo is worth and you have already elevated it to something it is not.

Lesson? Keep your shoes on and remember to wipe, but don't put poo on a pedestal on in the spotlight. For some strange reason, that seems to make it happy.

May 6th, 2011, 01:39 PM
Mystery stealth chopper


May 6th, 2011, 01:48 PM
Re: Cost of "Public Enemy"

National Journal cover story here (http://nationaljournal.com/magazine/the-cost-of-bin-laden-3-trillion-over-15-years-20110505?print=true).

Ho Chi Minh is on the list but not Mao?

btw: Both those guys won, whereas the rest on the list are big losers.

May 6th, 2011, 02:46 PM
The US never went to war against China (except indirectly in Korea) during Mao's time in power.

May 6th, 2011, 02:47 PM
Osama bin Laden > cost (43 trillion) > economic benefit (none).

Not if you're an oil company.

May 6th, 2011, 02:53 PM
The US never went to war against China (except indirectly in Korea) during Mao's time in power.

The entire basis of our adventure in Viet Nam was to stop Mao's Chinese dominoes.

May 6th, 2011, 05:37 PM
LOL @ Zippy!

May 6th, 2011, 10:42 PM
The entire basis of our adventure in Viet Nam was to stop Mao's Chinese dominoes.

True, but the National Journal list is meant to provide a basis of comparison of the cost for "getting" bin Laden. Mao was behind Ho & the Vietnam war (at least in our imaginations, which is pertinent), but behind Mao was the Cold War & anti-Communism. They might have just as well put up pics of Marx & Engels, or just the label "THEM," but then it would be kind of hard to make the point of what this hunt for the FBI's most wanted man has cost in wars, lives, time, and dollars.

May 7th, 2011, 02:37 AM
The twisted mind of yore ...

John Yoo: Obama Afraid To Capture Bin Laden

Talking Points Memo (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/john-yoo-killing-bin-laden-was-a-bad-idea-video.php?ref=fpb)
May 6, 2011

John Yoo says President Obama is too afraid of the politics of Guantanamo Bay to capture and interrogate terrorists.

The former George W. Bush administration lawyer, Yoo wrote the infamous torture memos used to justify the "enhanced interrogation techniques" that were a central legacy of Bush's Global War On Terror. He now says that the killing of Osama bin Laden will go down in history as one of President Obama's biggest national security fails.

Yoo told CNN on Thursday night that the special forces team sent to kill bin Laden should have instead taken him alive and kept him as a source of future intelligence. Failing to do that, Yoo says, cost the U.S. a valuable asset. That was a mistake, Yoo says.

"If they were going in with no options other than to kill him, then that's a problem," Yoo told CNN's Eliot Spitzer.

In an op-ed published in the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703834804576301032595527372.html) Wednesday, Yoo wrote that shooting the unarmed bin Laden meant "one of the most valuable intelligence opportunities since the beginning of the war has slipped through our hands."

Yoo told Spitzer "that a deliberately small force was sent in" to Abbottabad, Pakistan by the White House because "they don't want to capture high-level al Qaeda leaders."

Why? As Yoo said in his op-ed, the administration is terrified of backing the Bush administration's moves in the war on terror.

"Capturing [bin Laden] alive would have required the administration to hold and interrogate bin Laden at Guantanamo Bay," Yoo wrote, "something that has given this president allergic reactions bordering on a seizure."

© 2011 TPM Media LLC. All Rights Reserved.

May 7th, 2011, 02:09 PM




May 7th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Yoo told Spitzer "that a deliberately small force was sent in" to Abbottabad, Pakistan by the White House because "they don't want to capture high-level al Qaeda leaders."GW Bush, March 2002


GW Bush, Oct 2004 (oops)


May 7th, 2011, 04:05 PM
The arrogance of Yoo is stunning. Does he truly think that bin laden would given up intelligence? That after some heavy persuading by our guys, that he would have said "Ok ok I'll talk!" I wonder if he brought up the the cost & logistics of not only holding him before trial, but getting him up here, plus the cost of the trial itself.

All I've been hearing on the news for years is how another high-level al qaeda leader has been captured. So many that I began to wonder how many there actually were. Not that they didn't mean anything, but this was the prize & everyone knows it, & he would not have given so much as a shred of intelligence. The right decision was made.

May 7th, 2011, 08:22 PM
First sour grapes from "Torture is good for 'em" Yoo (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24739&p=359632&viewfull=1#post359632) and now Bush's Chief of Staff (how'd that work out?) Andrew Card (the guy who whispered sweet somethings into GWB's ear on 9/11 and still on deck for "Mission Accomplished") piles on -- and declares torture to be A-OK (to a German newspaper, of all places) ...

Interview with Former Bush Adviser Andrew Card

'Obama Has Pounded His Chest a Little Too Much'

Der Spiegel (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,761162,00.html)
May 7, 2011

Card: ... I honestly do not believe that the president neglected the hunt for bin Laden ...

SPIEGEL: But now President Obama is the big winner…

Card: I think he has pounded his chest a little too much. He can take pride in it, but he does not need to show it so much.

SPIEGEL: He didn't appear triumphant while announcing bin Laden's death.

Card: I thought his statement was subdued, but I think his schedule is not subdued. Personally, I think it is premature to go to Ground Zero, in New York. I think my role model in this would be George H. W. Bush, when the Berlin Wall came down in 1989. It was a day to celebrate, but we did not dance on the Wall.

SPIEGEL: Still, if the operation in Abbottabad had failed, it could have cost Obama his presidency. Has he not shown precisely the courage that his political opponents insinuated he lacked?

Card: President Obama made a courageous decision because so many things could have gone wrong. What would have happened if bin Laden had not been there or if the Pakistani military had intervened? With imperfect knowledge, I would say that this was probably a 50-50 chance.

SPIEGEL: The Afghan war, which was launched to capture bin Laden, is now in its 10th year. In hindsight, would it not have been better to forego an invasion and, instead, to try to take out bin Laden with Special Forces operations?

Card: When you say "take him out," that is good in theory; it makes for an interesting video game for the people watching events unfold from afar. But there is no joystick controlling the outcome of the game. It is hard to predict. Believe me, if we could have gotten Osama bin Laden on day one of the war, it would have made a big difference.

SPIEGEL: But, instead, he continued to be a symbol for al-Qaida until now. He was the face of terrorism.

Card: I'm not sure if I would say "face," but he was the personification of terrorism ...

SPIEGEL: Now that bin Laden is dead, debates have been reignited about whether the interrogation techniques used in Guantanamo succeeded in eliciting important clues about bin Laden's hiding place. In this case, do you think the end justifies the means?

Card: I honestly believe that waterboarding, or the enhanced interrogation techniques that we used, produced intelligence that was extremely valuable in protecting America and our allies. So I am an advocate of the president having the ability to allow enhanced techniques to be used in selective circumstances to protect America.


May 7th, 2011, 08:27 PM
Card: I thought his statement was subdued, but I think his schedule is not subdued. Personally, I think it is premature to go to Ground Zero, in New York. I think my role model in this would be George H. W. Bush, when the Berlin Wall came down in 1989. It was a day to celebrate, but we did not dance on the Wall.

I had totally forgotten that Bush 1 was the guy behind the fall of the Berlin Wall (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall#The_Fall).

Funny what time will do to one's memory. :cool:

May 7th, 2011, 11:00 PM
Daddy Bush just happened to be holding office when the wall came down. Russia's war with Afghanistan (lesson for us) collapsed the wall.

May 8th, 2011, 11:01 PM
These idiots think it's all so easy. Sure the POTUS could have just said "Drop a Bomb on Osama's House." Woulda killed the MFer, too. But no, he did it the SMART way, used the resources at his command, and ended up with a treasure trove of intelligence to boot. Mr. Koch: How'd those 7 years of repugniks failing to get OBL work out?

Gonna spit on the AHole's name next time I go to Lincoln Center.

David Koch: I Don't Think Obama 'Contributed Much At All' To Bin Laden Killing

TPMMuckraker (http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/david_koch_i_dont_think_obama_contributed_much_at. php?ref=fpb)
By Eric Lach
May 5, 2011

Billionaire Republican financier David Koch told (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/billionaire_conservative_david.html) New York magazine he doesn't think President Obama "contributed much at all" to the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, and the military and intelligence agencies deserve all the credit.

"[A]ll that Obama did was say 'yea' or 'nay,' we're going to take him out or not," Koch said, while attending the Society of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center Spring Ball on Wednesday evening. He went on:

He just made the decision, it was obvious where the guy is. He was one of the worst terrorists organizing attacks on the United States. I mean, no president in his right mind would not approve that decision to go eliminate him. So he's getting a lot of recognition and his polls have jumped up, but his decision was the easiest of them all. The real hard work was done by the intelligence and the SEALs.

Koch also called Obama a "hardcore socialist" and said "he's scary to me."

Read the rest here (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/billionaire_conservative_david.html).

© 2011 TPM Media LLC. All Rights Reserved

May 8th, 2011, 11:36 PM
They are really grabbing at straws. Obama is 'scary' to Koch because Obama is not under his thumb. Boo hoo!

May 9th, 2011, 12:09 AM
He just made the decision, it was obvious where the guy is. He was one of the worst terrorists organizing attacks on the United States. I mean, no president in his right mind would not approve that decision to go eliminate him. So he's getting a lot of recognition and his polls have jumped up, but his decision was the easiest of them all.In August 2007, Obama said:
Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.

I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear: There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.Feb 2008, after Wisconsin Primary, McCain said:
Will we risk the confused leadership of an inexperienced candidate who once suggested bombing our ally, Pakistan?

The first thing you do is, you don't tell people what you're gonna to do. You make plans and you work with the other country that is your ally and friend, which Pakistan is.

You don't broadcast and say that you're going to bomb a country without their permission or without consulting them. It's just fundamentals of the conduct of national security policy," McCain added.And then candidate Hillary Clinton chimed in:
Last summer, he basically threatened to bomb Pakistan, which I don't think was a particularly wise position to take.This theme carried on into the presidential debates, with McCain making charges that Obama wanted to cut off aid to Pakistan and invade the country. At the Sept 26 debate, McCain said:
I'm not prepared at this time to cut off aid to Pakistan. So I'm not prepared to threaten it, as Senator Obama apparently wants to do, as he has said that he would announce military strikes into Pakistan.

Now, you don't do that. You don't say that out loud. If you have to do things, you have to do things, and you work with the Pakistani government.Obama responded:
Nobody talked about attacking Pakistan. Here's what I said, and if John wants to disagree with this, he can let me know: That, if the United States has al Qaeda, bin Laden, top-level lieutenants in our sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we should take them out. Now, I think that's the right strategy; I think that's the right policy.This went on right up to the election. By this time, Sarah Palin was on the scene, but her comments were too dumbass to deserve a quote. Just grouped in the "pallin' around with terrorists" meme.

Some people forget that going into Pakistan to get bin Laden became a big campaign issue.

May 9th, 2011, 08:35 AM
Oddly enough, both candidates still kept funding Pakistan..... :p

I don't think either, however, had any illusions about what that money was for (the pacification and partial stabilization of a potentially volitile, nuclear capable national entity). I do not think anybody really thought that Pakistan was truly an "ally".

If you have to pay someone to be your friend, they aren't your friend.

May 9th, 2011, 09:24 AM

Obama and the role of restraint.

The NEW YORKER (http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2011/05/16/110516taco_talk_remnick)
by David Remnick
MAY 16, 2011


“Rubbed Out”
by Gürbüz Doğan Ekşioğlu

May 10th, 2011, 09:53 AM
May 9, 2011

U.S. Braced for Fights With Pakistanis in Bin Laden Raid


WASHINGTON — President Obama insisted that the assault force hunting down Osama bin Laden last week be large enough to fight its way out of Pakistan if confronted by hostile local police officers and troops, senior administration and military officials said Monday.

In revealing additional details about planning for the mission, senior officials also said that two teams of specialists were on standby: One to bury Bin Laden if he was killed, and a second composed of lawyers, interrogators and translators in case he was captured alive. That team was set to meet aboard a Navy ship, most likely the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson in the North Arabian Sea.

Mr. Obama’s decision to increase the size of the force sent into Pakistan shows that he was willing to risk a military confrontation with a close ally in order to capture or kill the leader of Al Qaeda.

Such a fight would have set off an even larger breach with the Pakistanis than has taken place since officials in Islamabad learned that helicopters filled with members of a Navy Seals team had flown undetected into one of their cities, and burst into a compound where Bin Laden was hiding.

One senior Obama administration official, pressed on the rules of engagement for one of the riskiest clandestine operations attempted by the C.I.A. and the military’s Joint Special Operations Command in many years, said: “Their instructions were to avoid any confrontation if at all possible. But if they had to return fire to get out, they were authorized to do it.”

The planning also illustrates how little the administration trusted the Pakistanis as they set up their operation. They also rejected a proposal to bring the Pakistanis in on the mission.

Under the original plan, two assault helicopters were going to stay on the Afghanistan side of the border waiting for a call if they were needed. But the aircraft would have been about 90 minutes away from the Bin Laden compound.

About 10 days before the raid, Mr. Obama reviewed the plans and pressed his commanders as to whether they were taking along enough forces to fight their way out if the Pakistanis arrived on the scene and tried to interfere with the operation.

That resulted in the decision to send two more helicopters carrying additional troops. These followed the two lead Black Hawk helicopters that carried the actual assault team. While there was no confrontation with the Pakistanis, one of those backup helicopters was ultimately brought in to the scene of the raid when a Black Hawk was damaged while making a hard landing.

“Some people may have assumed we could talk our way out of a jam, but given our difficult relationship with Pakistan right now, the president did not want to leave anything to chance,” said one senior administration official, who like others would not be quoted by name describing details of the secret mission. “He wanted extra forces if they were necessary.”

With tensions between the United States and Pakistan escalating since the raid, American officials on Monday sought to tamp down the divisions and pointed to some encouraging developments.

A United States official said that American investigators would soon be allowed to interview Bin Laden’s three widows, now being held by Pakistani authorities, a demand that Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, Thomas E. Donilon, made on television talk shows on Sunday.

American officials say the widows, as well as a review of the trove of documents and other data the Seals team collected from the raid, could reveal important details, not only about Bin Laden’s life and activities since he fled into Pakistan from Afghanistan in 2001, but also information about Qaeda plots, personnel and planning.

“We believe that it is very important to maintain the cooperative relationship with Pakistan precisely because it’s in our national security interest to do so,” said the White House spokesman, Jay Carney.

In an effort to help mend the latest rupture in relations, the C.I.A. director, Leon E. Panetta, will talk soon with his counterpart, Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, head of the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate, or ISI, “to discuss the way forward in the common fight against Al Qaeda,” an American official said.

On Sunday, Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called the Pakistani Army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. “Mullen just wanted to check in with him,” said an American military official. “The conversation was civil, but sober, given the pressure that the general is under right now.”

In describing the mission, the officials said that American surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft were watching and listening to how Pakistan’s police forces and military responded to the raid. That determined how long the commandos could safely remain on the ground going through the compound collecting computer hard drives, thumb drives and documents.

American forces were under strict orders to avoid engaging with any Pakistani forces that responded to the commotion at the Bin Laden compound, senior administration officials said.

If a confrontation appeared imminent, there were contingency plans for senior American officials, including Admiral Mullen, to call their Pakistani counterparts to avert an armed clash.

But when he reviewed the plans, Mr. Obama voiced concern that this was not enough to protect the troops on the mission, administration officials said.

In planning for the possible capture of Bin Laden, officials decided they would take him aboard a Navy ship to preclude battles over jurisdiction.

The plan, officials said, was to do an initial interrogation for any information that might prevent a pending attack or identify the location of other Qaeda leaders.

“There was a heck of a lot of planning that went into this for almost any and all contingencies, including capture,” one senior administration official said.

In the end, the team organized to handle his death was called into duty. They did a quick forensics study of the body, washed it, and buried it at sea.

But the officials acknowledged that the mission always was weighted toward killing, given the possibility that Bin Laden would be armed or wearing an explosive vest.

© 2011 The New York Times Company

May 10th, 2011, 10:50 AM
^ I saw this report earlier today. I am glad it didn't come to that -- would have been a big mess. Releasing this info looks to be part of an elaborate coldish war emerging between the govts and intelligence agencies in both countries.

Yesterday Pakistan outed the head US spy guy in Islamabad --

May 10th, 2011, 12:51 PM
In revealing additional details about planning for the mission, senior officials also said that two teams of specialists were on standby: One to bury Bin Laden if he was killed, and a second composed of lawyers, interrogators and translators in case he was captured alive.

I am sorry, but this is just sad.

That somehow LAWYERS were vital to the capture and interrogation of a war criminal. (kind of a loose definition of "war criminal", I know, but still...). Quite a bit different than the original systems we used under GWB.......

Good or bad it just seems odd that we need to send a Lawyer along on a military mission.......

May 10th, 2011, 01:00 PM
Why is that sad? Such a set up worked very well for us, and the rest of the world, after WW2 at Nuremburg.

May 10th, 2011, 01:15 PM
If bin Laden was Mirandized, they would have had to allow him to get lawyered-up.

"You have the right to remain silent [before we kill you]. Anything you say or do [before we kill you] can and will be held against you in the court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney [before we kill you]. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you [before we kill you]. Do you understand these rights as they have been read to you? [before we kill you]"

May 10th, 2011, 01:58 PM
I know what you are saying, but it is just very strange to have a MILITARY OPERATION where one (or more) of the members is a Lawyer.

There have been no movies I have seen where a bunch of special-op military units are shipped off into a warzone and has included legal council.

There are no games where I have seen the Black Ops rush a compound....followed by a lawyer or two in FLAK gear.

Never have I heard of a Navy Seal Team infiltrating a military base to bring back an enemy commander to be introduced to his lawyer.....(until now....)

It is kind of like having your appendix removed with a lawyer standing in the operating room. You may very well NEED it these days, but it is just plain weird.

May 10th, 2011, 05:50 PM
I know what you are saying,Really? My post was complete nonsense.

There have been no movies I have seen where a bunch of special-op military units are shipped off into a warzone and has included legal council.

There are no games where I have seen the Black Ops rush a compound....followed by a lawyer or two in FLAK gear.This ain't no movie. This ain't no game-boy. This ain't no foolin' around.

So you envision a lawyer who shows up in a Brooks Bros suit, and they give him a flak-jacket, and send him off with an assault team? Did it ever occur to you that these units may have people who have legal expertise, especially in international law, and also happen to have some sort of military training?

May 11th, 2011, 08:30 AM
Really? My post was complete nonsense.

Sometimes things that are intensional nonsense make more sense than those that arent. I know sarcasm when I read it zip! ;)

This ain't no movie. This ain't no game-boy. This ain't no foolin' around.

This ain't no mud club? Or CBGB's?

So you envision a lawyer who shows up in a Brooks Bros suit, and they give him a flak-jacket, and send him off with an assault team?

In a Zucker brothers sort of way, yes. But more sarcastically I envisioned a Navy Seal with a briefcase.

Did it ever occur to you that these units may have people who have legal expertise, especially in international law, and also happen to have some sort of military training?

No. Never. :rolleyes:

May 11th, 2011, 10:00 AM
We should email Jon Stewart. Maybe some good material (http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/bulletin/2006/fall/cn_05.php) for him.

May 11th, 2011, 12:05 PM
May 11, 2011

Pakistani Opposition Leader Calls for Bin Laden Inquiry


ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The leader of the main opposition political party called Wednesday for an independent inquiry into why the Pakistani Army had no knowledge of the American raid that killed Osama bin Laden.

The demand by Nawaz Sharif, the head of the party, the Pakistan Muslim League-N, for an independent judicial commission to report to the public within 21 days stood in contrast to the announcement by the civilian government that the army would conduct its own inquiry.

Since the May 2 Navy Seal operation that killed Bin Laden there has been unusual criticism of the army, Pakistan’s best-financed and most revered institution.

“If the government refrains from setting up this commission, they will disappoint the public,” Mr. Sharif said at a news conference in Islamabad, the capital.

Mr. Sharif, who served twice as prime minister in the 1990s, was ousted from his second term by a military coup led by Gen. Pervez Musharraf in 1999. He has since been distrustful of the military, and his call Wednesday was interpreted as an attempt to strengthen the hand of civilian rule in the face of the powerful military.

The call for an independent commission came after Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani told Parliament earlier this week that a high-ranking army general would lead an in-house army inquiry. The prime minister did not say when the inquiry would be finished or whether it would ever be made public, and critics of the raid and the military’s performance have so far felt the government’s explanations inadequate.

Mr. Sharif said he rejected the idea of the military investigation, which is to be led by Gen. Javed Iqbal, a confidant of the head of the army, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, who is scheduled to address a closed joint session of Parliament on Friday.

Farooq Sattar, the leader of the M.Q.M., a party that is part of the governing coalition, said Wednesday that he was also demanding an independent commission that would consist of members of the judiciary, retired judges and parliamentarians.

The fact that the Pakistani Army was not told of the raid by the Americans was the biggest shock for Pakistanis who have complained that the army allowed an infringement of the country’s sovereignty.

The army was not told of the raid by the Obama administration before it had started, on the grounds that Pakistan could not be trusted, said the head of the Central Intelligence Agency, Leon E. Panetta. During the operation, Pakistani radar failed to detect the helicopters that carried the Navy Seal team in and out of Pakistan, and the military failed to react during the 40-minute raid at the compound where Bin Laden was hiding.

That Bin Laden was hiding in Pakistan —either with or without the knowledge of the Pakistani intelligence agencies — caused slightly less alarm. Even so, Mr. Sharif said Pakistanis wanted to know how it was that Bin Laden had lived in the small garrison city of Abbottabad, near the nation’s premier military academy, for at least five years.

It was not immediately clear whether a judicial commission would actually be established. “The judiciary would probably be reluctant,” said Babar Sattar, a lawyer who writes about legal affairs and politics in the Pakistani news media.

It could be possible to assemble a panel of retired judges, depending on the terms of reference Mr. Sharif has suggested, Mr. Sattar said.

Mr. Sharif, who has annoyed American officials with his seeming tolerance of militant groups that have gained strength in his political base, Punjab, said he wanted the judicial commission to also address the American drone campaign against militants in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

Mr. Sharif and his brother, Shahbaz Sharif, the chief minister of Punjab, called for an end to the drones even before the killing of Bin Laden. The army chief, General Kayani, told the Americans last month that he wanted the drones stopped. But the Obama administration has said it has no intention of halting the drone attacks.

In his statement, Mr. Sharif said he was upset at the growing isolation of Pakistan.

“Except for China, no one is supporting us,” he said. “Look at the state of the country and what the rest of the world is saying about us.”

© 2011 The New York Times Company

there has been unusual criticism of the army, Pakistan’s best-financed and most revered institution.Just like North Korea

May 13th, 2011, 03:19 PM
Porn Found in Osama Bin Laden Evidence Trove

By MARTHA RADDATZ (http://abcnews.go.com/author/martha_raddatz) (@martharaddatz (http://twitter.com/martharaddatz))
May 13, 2011

A stash of pornography was found among the trove of evidence (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/13/us-binladen-porn-idUSTRE74C4RK20110513) seized from Osama bin Laden's Abbottabad compound by U.S. Navy SEALs, according to a report confirmed by ABC News.
The existence of the pornography stash, which one U.S. official told ABC News was "huge," was first reported by Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/13/us-binladen-porn-idUSTRE74C4RK20110513). The official said the pornographic material was found in a wooden box in bin Laden's bedroom and included electronically recorded videos.

for full story and video:

May 13th, 2011, 03:44 PM


May 13th, 2011, 03:44 PM
The intelligence treasure trove they mention at the end of the video should be very useful.

May 13th, 2011, 11:12 PM
... the pornographic material was found in a wooden box in bin Laden's bedroom and included electronically recorded videos.

OBL always seemed like a modern kind of guy. Would have been surprised if they found old style hand-cranked videos.

May 14th, 2011, 12:56 AM
He was hand cranking something else.

May 14th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Some say they used the porn to imbed information and pass it around ...

Talk about killing two birds with one stone.

May 16th, 2011, 08:19 AM
Well, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.......

That makes no sense on so many levels.

May 16th, 2011, 09:46 AM
Show a little respect for the dead.


May 16th, 2011, 10:06 AM
I am.

Very little.

May 17th, 2011, 07:30 AM
Given that he had conspired and had thousands of innocent people killed, innocent young children as well, he doesn't even deserve very little.

Zilch, zero, nata, zippo! Not one thin dime!!!!! He NEEDED to die!!! :) :)

May 17th, 2011, 09:03 AM
Learn about sarcasm.

May 17th, 2011, 09:03 AM
Um..... not a good attitude Daq.

That kind of hate NEVER brings any resolution but more hate. You don't have to like him in any way or feel bad for his death, but dancing in the street over it is not going to make his followers just lay down their arms and say "You know, the US is not that bad, really...".

We have to be satisfied that this happened, that we succeeded, but not to be joyous or smug in our victory.

Did he "deserve" to die? Yes. There is no doubt about that, but the difficult part comes in not using a term that can be easily bent to different purposes. In the eyes of the radicals, everyone in the WTC also "deserved" to die. We need to stay away from emotional association and sentencing.

He was a threat to our safety.
He threatened the lives of more US citizens.
He killed many US citizens.

That is pretty much all we need to say.

May 17th, 2011, 02:54 PM
Ninja, I kind of agree with you, but also, I'm sorry for a disagreement on the other hand, but in your list at the bottom of your post, you left out one thing;

The most wanted and most hated man in the world.

We all knew that someday, he would be caught. We just didn't really know when, because he kept himself hidden so stealthfully for nearly 10 years. That is, until his luck ran out.

May 17th, 2011, 03:53 PM
We all knew that someday, he would be caught.Glad you were so sure.

Many people thought he was already dead from natural causes.

Check out this blog (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread698864/pg1)

"Kidney failure killed Osama bin Laden"

Started 04/05/2011
Wow! I wonder what the reason is behind the CIA keeping the dead man's story alive 10 more years, There must be an agenda behind it and I think the CIA wanted to bankrupt America. So basically it isn't Osama wanting to bankrupt America but the CIA. The CIA was created by Harry Truman a British agent or something as in the documentary 1932, the real history of America by Lyndon Larouche.

etc, etc.

The thread just sort of ends on 05/05/2011.

Alex Jones from out there on Infowars and PrisonPlanet is always entertaining


May 17th, 2011, 04:55 PM
Posted by scumonkey:

Porn Found in Osama Bin Laden Evidence Trove

By MARTHA RADDATZ (http://abcnews.go.com/author/martha_raddatz) (@martharaddatz (http://twitter.com/martharaddatz))
May 13, 2011

So, regardless of what part of the world men come from, in the end, all they care about is looking at knockers, among other things.

Unrelated to the above, but I wonder of they'll also find a bootleg copy of A Christmas Story. :D

May 17th, 2011, 08:35 PM
Former President George Bush had said THIS QUOTE a few days after 09-11-01;

"We will smoke him out of his hole." Guess finally, he was indeed smoked.

I think that this guy, Alex Jones just wants publicity, and just like the wildfires in California, incompetent sources are spreading unconfirmed rumors around about how Binladen died. They are eating this up and trying to convince people that the U.S did not really kill Binladen, that he was supposedly already dead.

June 4th, 2011, 04:50 PM
US strike 'kills' key Pakistan militant Ilyas Kashmiri...


June 5th, 2011, 04:18 PM
Ninja, I kind of agree with you, but also, I'm sorry for a disagreement on the other hand, but in your list at the bottom of your post, you left out one thing;

The most wanted and most hated man in the world.

He was only the most wanted and hated man in the world because the Bush administration told us he was supposed to be, though. Now, I'm not going to line myself up with any conspiracy nuts, but experience tells me that whenever someone want someone dead badly enough, it's usually because they don't want to hear what he has to say.

At the end of the day, it would have been better for all parties if he was taken alive, he wouldn't be a martyr, we'd find out the truth, there wouldn't be any issues over "kill and dump" before anyone could even see the corpse. The secrecy that the goverment keeps perpetuating is not good, and will only breed further institutions like WikiLeaks etc.

One of the most famous Supreme Court Justices said "Sunshine is the best disinfectant." I believe this quote to be more true than pretty much anything else I've heard in my life.

June 5th, 2011, 04:48 PM
For my money the treasure trove of intelligence that we got on disks, etc. from the OBL compound is disinfectant enough.

June 5th, 2011, 05:13 PM
For my money the treasure trove of intelligence that we got on disks, etc. from the OBL compound is disinfectant enough.

Maybe I'm just too damn cynical, but I generally don't put a lot of faith into digital evidence, it's just way too easy to manipulate (or completely fabricate) to be of my value.

June 5th, 2011, 06:47 PM
From a strategic point of view, where that info is used to penetrate and destroy those working to kill us, there'd be little reason to manipulate anything.

June 6th, 2011, 08:20 AM
Loft, what he is saying is that if that finger points to some of our own, that finger may not see the light of day, or the people it belongs to, ever again.

June 6th, 2011, 10:16 AM
He was only the most wanted and hated man in the world because the Bush administration told us he was supposed to be, though. Now, I'm not going to line myself up with any conspiracy nuts, but experience tells me that whenever someone want someone dead badly enough, it's usually because they don't want to hear what he has to say.You could also view it from the perspective of pure politics.

Getting OBL as quickly as possible played to the emotion of the moment. After a brief time, the political capital was invested in removing Saddam Hussein and making Iraq a model of democracy. OBL became relatively unimportant to the Administration.

If in their eyes, it was imperative to get him, all those resources would have been poured into Afghanistan. Ironically, that would have been the smarter course of action.

June 6th, 2011, 10:25 AM
He was only the most wanted and hated man in the world because the Bush administration told us he was supposed to be
Yeah, that must be it. He was probably a humanitarian and all around crusader of love & peace

June 6th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Don't forget he kept folks employed, making and using armaments of various sorts. You think they work for free?

June 6th, 2011, 01:52 PM
GG, seriously speaking, I think I know where Ken is coming from, but I think he posed it rather bluntly.

I do not agree that this guy was any form of humanitarian whatsoever (although, from what I heard, AlQueda had some REALLY good "benefits" for health care and family support.... pretty damn ironically funny to tell you the truth), but to think that nobody anywhere else had any contact with him is also a bit too trusting.

I really do not know how much dirt is still left on guys like Rummies' hands after shaking so many he set up (enemy of enemy), but I would not be surprised at finding an Ollie North or two somewhere in the mix if we dug hard enough.

June 6th, 2011, 01:55 PM
I think that regardless of any insider goings on, we should be able to agree that OBL was the mastermind and funding source of the attacks on September 11, 2011 and a global leader for a violent prolonged campaign against innocent civilians in the distorted name of religion. There should be no Bush effect seen on the perception of that reality

June 6th, 2011, 02:06 PM
Bush effect?

/me keeps bird in hand......

June 6th, 2011, 02:11 PM
or perhaps Ken is questioning how his powerbase was built. Remember the mujahideen?

June 6th, 2011, 03:37 PM
Only as the worst name you could use in "The Name Game".

June 6th, 2011, 04:01 PM
or perhaps Ken is questioning how his powerbase was built. Remember the mujahideen?

For sure, and you can see the same mistakes being repeated in other foreign policy initiatives. The government has always engaged in bogus policies of "lesser of two evils". Always comes back to bite us in the ass

June 6th, 2011, 04:36 PM
or perhaps Ken is questioning how his powerbase was built. Remember the mujahideen?That debate is already out there. The question is, what information are you going to get out of bin Laden if you capture him alive.

I would think the last thing bin Laden would want to do is admit that he is a product of the CIA.

The practical matter to consider is that a small force went into a relatively populated area of a foreign country, a country with a substantial military, some of it in the immediate vicinity. I don't think they wanted a standoff about who has jurisdiction over a prisoner.

June 6th, 2011, 08:00 PM

From a pure logistics perspective, the operation was immensely successful and impressive as hell. Better than Entebbe. And to your point on jurisdiction, there was no way he was coming out alive.

June 7th, 2011, 09:35 AM
I am just dissapointed in the bad destruct mechanism on the "top secret" stealth helecopter.

Unless that was a deliberate fake dumped over the line to lead the reverse engineering in the wrong direction......

June 7th, 2011, 09:57 AM
I am just dissapointed in the bad destruct mechanism on the "top secret" stealth helecopter.

Unless that was a deliberate fake dumped over the line to lead the reverse engineering in the wrong direction......

Didn't the tail crash and separate over the other side of the wall? The Seals weren't going to leave that compound unless they were flying out

June 15th, 2011, 07:20 PM
Why Has Pakistan Targeted Informants Who Helped Track Bin Laden?


In the days following the raid that discovered and killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan's top spymaster recalled that he had long made his feelings plain to his American allies. Where the two countries' interests meet, Lieut. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha told a select group of journalists, there would be co-operation. But where the U.S.'s interests were deemed to be acting against Pakistan's own, it would be a very different matter. "We'll not help you," the head of Pakistan's Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) quoted himself as telling his American counterparts. "We'll resist you."

Now, Pasha seems to be making good on that promise. Stung by the embarrassment of bin Laden's discovery in a garrison town just two hours away from the Pakistani capital, and the humiliation of the U.S. carrying out a unilateral raid, the ISI has apparently gone after the Pakistanis who helped them pull it off. Five Pakistani informants, including an Army major, who furnished the CIA with crucial leads about bin Laden's compound have been taken into custody by the ISI, the New York Times reported.

The Pakistani military angrily denies that a major - reported to have tracked the license plates of cars visiting bin Laden's compound - has been taken into custody. But a Pakistan army officer says that some 30-to-40 civilians in total were being interrogated, some of whom were released on Tuesday. And there is speculation that the detained major, thought to be an army medic, may have been the occupant of a house near bin Laden's compound, where a nameplate said that the property belonged to a Major Amir Aziz. The nameplate was later taken down.

The move against the informants appears to be an attempt to stand up to what the ISI sees as American unilateralism and, in particular, an unauthorized expansion of the CIA's footprint in Pakistan. The ISI, says a senior Pakistani official, is "trying to lay down the rule that the CIA does not operate independently in Pakistan." Beyond the humiliation of bin Laden being discovered a mere kilometer away from Pakistan's equivalent of West Point Academy, the Pakistani security establishment has been angered by widely-voiced but unproven suspicions of complicity. But what appears to have angered the powerful generals most is the lack of trust displayed by the unilateral raid - and the strategic vulnerability that it exposed.

At the time of the raid, senior Western diplomats in Islamabad predicted that the Pakistani security establishment would react in two ways. To efface the shame of the bin Laden raid, it would try and demonstrate its commitment to fighting al-Qaeda and other Islamist militants on its soil. Yet, aggrieved for the same reasons, the generals were seen just as likely to react aggressively in less helpful ways. The roundup of the informants and others suggests that more emphasis is being laid on being seen to stand up to the U.S.

Since the Raymond Davis affair, when a CIA contractor unknown to the ISI killed two Pakistani men in the city of Lahore in January, Pasha and his boss, Army Chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani have been keen to minimize the CIA and US military's presence in Pakistan. Last week, they expelled a group of U.S. military trainers who had been invited to the country to help enhance the counterinsurgency capabilities of Pakistani troops fighting militants in the tribal areas along the Afghan border.

Pasha has long been angered by what he sees as an uncontrollably expanding and independent CIA footprint in Pakistan. At the same May briefing with journalists, the embattled spy chief complained indignantly that his spies were on the verge of being "outnumbered" by foreign agents. It's a scenario that spookily echoes the theme of David Ignatius' latest spy thriller, Bloodmoney. In the novel, the fictionalized ISI chief learns of a new capability being run by the CIA beyond his knowledge. "It was an insult," Ignatius writes. "The ISI chief had considered whether he should do something to hurt the Americans back."

Reality is now rivaling fiction as relations between the two spy agencies plunge to fresh depths. The informants' arrests come on the heels of the CIA's allegation that the ISI may have tipped-off militants based at bomb factories in Waziristan. As first reported on TIME.com, CIA chief Leon Panetta (and the likely successor to Defense Secretary Robert Gates) traveled to Pakistan last Friday to confront Pasha with satellite images showing the militants flee the two sites within 24 hours of the CIA passing on their location to the Pakistanis. When Pakistani troops later arrived at the facilities used for the manufacture of improvised explosive devices, the pro-Afghan Taliban militants were long gone. The Times reported that it was at the same meeting with Pasha that Panetta raised the arrests of the informants. See if the U.S. can trust Pakistan.

Such alleged failures at intelligence sharing and action against militants who attack U.S. forces in Afghanistan are what led President Barack Obama to clear the intensification of CIA operations in Pakistan. Shedding the reliance on the ISI, Obama charged the CIA to proceed independently. One manifestation of that change of policy was an intensification of drone strikes, which almost daily continue to target suspected militants in the tribal areas along the Afghan border. Despite the Pakistan Army and government's loud denunciations of the covert program, they have not tried to put a halt to them.

By striking a defiant nationalist pose, Pasha may be hoping to stanch the wave of pressure that has been piling on his institution, and his own position, over the past month. The ISI chief had offered to resign on three occasions. The Pakistani military as a whole has been made the focus of unprecedented criticism from civil society campaigners, journalists and opposition politicians. There is also tremendous pressure from below, with the military's lower ranks registering anger at the U.S. in the wake of the bin Laden raid.

And yet, for others, there was always an element of inevitability about the ISI's relations with the CIA. "They have been deteriorating for a long time," says retired Lieut. Gen. Asad Durrani, a former ISI chief. "With every such event, they take a nosedive. It's not surprising. We did not have the same objectives, and we didn't have the same strategies."

Copyright © 2011Time Inc

June 15th, 2011, 07:41 PM
Yeah, that must be it. He was probably a humanitarian and all around crusader of love & peace

Yeah, because the world is entirely black and white. Either someone is evil, or they're good. Nobody is in between.

How many Iraqi civilians is one WTC victim worth? If you want to start comparing civilian body count, the United States really dwarf any comparison to OBL.

From a pure logistics perspective, the operation was immensely successful and impressive as hell. Better than Entebbe. And to your point on jurisdiction, there was no way he was coming out alive.

What objective basis do you have for that statement? An unarmed, 54 year old half-cripple would just Kung-Fu the shit out of some of the best trained soldiers in the world...?

June 16th, 2011, 07:59 AM
Ken, they were not talking about OBLs ability to fight, just that it was not a possibility to bring him out for MANY reasons, the least of which being the difficulty of transporting live cargo.

You know this.

Also, please step back from the direct 9/11 comparisons. They are old and tired and do not directly relate. I am fully aware of our own war crimes against Iraq, a country that had nearly NOTHING to do with the WTC attack (no more than Rumsfeld did), but siting the casualties in a, what is this now, 9 year conflict in direct comparison to a single attcke from a 3rd party radical is not exactly linear.

Both are bad, but you will never convince anyone who has not already made this association that anything you say after that comparison is right......

June 16th, 2011, 11:09 AM
You want the structure to crumble, then you take out the key stone. By any means necessary.

June 16th, 2011, 11:57 AM

As evidenced by the refusal of release of the photos, they are quite aware of what cound be used against us in the future "in the name of our leader". You do not allow any easy method of Martyrdom (solitary confinement, etc).

Of all the military ventures we have taken, this is probably the most defendable, NOT our unrelated attack on Iraq.

June 16th, 2011, 12:26 PM
Ken, they were not talking about OBLs ability to fight, just that it was not a possibility to bring him out for MANY reasons, the least of which being the difficulty of transporting live cargo.

You know this.

I really don't. I can't for the love of my life see how the "difficulty of transporting live cargo" in terms of one prisoner being difficult for the largest military force in the world. Lord knows the US has managed to pick up other prisoners of war around the world and bring them home just fine. I do not believe for a second that it would be difficult to bring OBL to justice in the US, alive, if anyone had actually wanted to do that.

Also, please step back from the direct 9/11 comparisons. They are old and tired and do not directly relate. I am fully aware of our own war crimes against Iraq, a country that had nearly NOTHING to do with the WTC attack (no more than Rumsfeld did), but siting the casualties in a, what is this now, 9 year conflict in direct comparison to a single attcke from a 3rd party radical is not exactly linear.

It isn't, but anyone outside of the US sees this conflict from both sides. And I'm not just talking about the Saudis, but all over Europe and Asia as well. The fact that any death of American lives is heralded as the end of the world, yet the civilian body count in Iraq has reached over 100,000 people, nobody seems to care about. We get video evidence of US army personnel just slaughtering down civilians, laughing about it, and nobody is held accountable.

That doesn't mean there's a direct connection between the two, but it's also inevitable that people will draw the connections, and it will only serve to breed more hatred for America, not less.

That debate is already out there. The question is, what information are you going to get out of bin Laden if you capture him alive.

I would think the last thing bin Laden would want to do is admit that he is a product of the CIA.

The practical matter to consider is that a small force went into a relatively populated area of a foreign country, a country with a substantial military, some of it in the immediate vicinity. I don't think they wanted a standoff about who has jurisdiction over a prisoner.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not a conspiracy nut, I don't think the Jews were behind 9/11, but I also find it pretty clear that the government is very creative in what information they give us. I am, certainly, a strong supporter of WikiLeaks and similar organizations, because reality is that people with power serve their own ends to a very large degree.

You want the structure to crumble, then you take out the key stone. By any means necessary.

OBL wasn't really a key stone, and taking him out will not make AQ crumble, on the contrary. What might have hurt them, would be putting him in jail and letting him rot as a common criminal. Killing him, disposing of the body and refusing to release pictures will only serve to make him a martyr, a symbolic hero, and a recruiting tool for AQ. Everything about this operation increased the level of threat towards America, not reduced it.

As for the key stone part; not really. If you look at the history of AQ, the only importance of OBL was that he happened to be a rich playboy, and they invited him in to play with his Mastercard. AQ existed before OBL, it will exist after OBL, and his importance to the organization has been overstated considerably.

June 21st, 2011, 07:27 AM
A wrongful death lawsuit has been filed against Logan Int'l Aiport, United Airlines and American Airlines, holding THEM all responsible for the 09-11-01 terror attacks by the relatives of one of the victims who was on board Flight 175.

In that lawsuit, it says that the airport, its then security co in place and the 2 airlines involved in the attacks are clearly held accountable for;

1. Not knowing what mace is.

2. Being completely unaware and not mindful that Osama Binladen had targeted commercial airliners to be used in the attacks.

3. The lack of knowllege by airport security personel that allowed terrorists to board the 2 planes (Flights 11 & 175) that were used as guided missles to bring down the WTC's Twin Towers.

4. Not speaking English was also one of them.

There could also be more wrongful death lawsuits resulting from this.

June 21st, 2011, 09:09 AM
This should be thrown out.

This is hateful and actually hurting the very country and people that the attack was on.

Stupid blind hatred. Who the hell is going to pay for the Airline legal fees? Al Queda?


June 22nd, 2011, 08:07 AM
A while back, not too long after the terror attacks, the gov't DID hold al Quaeda responsible for the massacre, and began draining the neteork's members' bank accounts to pay for some of the damages and murderes.

June 22nd, 2011, 08:40 AM
Um, completely unrelated.

They seized the assets that were being used to fund Al Queda. They did not start paying personal "pain and suffering" claims by the victims families.

What is going on right now is that Lawyers are being paid to get money from an AMERICAN COMPANY THAT HAS ALSO LOST SIGNIFICANT $$ DUE TO THE ATTACKS, buth in sheer personnel and hardware cost AS WELL AS significant loss of buisness due to reduced traffic. So now the price of a ticket is going to have to reflect that (or we will have to start paying for carry on baggage as well!)

All these lawsuits are doing is making the american PEOPLE pay for an attack that someone else did. It is also paying Lawyers to somehow "give solace" to the victims families when they are primarily interested in their cut.

Bad all the way around and one of the signs of the fall of Rome......

June 22nd, 2011, 08:50 PM
Victim's families already got a nice payout. :mad:

June 27th, 2011, 11:52 PM
Victim's families already got a nice payout. :mad:

Since when has that stopped anyone from wanting more?

June 28th, 2011, 04:06 AM
Wanting and getting are two different things.

July 14th, 2011, 11:53 PM
JULY 15, 2011

Bin Laden Plotted New Attack


Osama bin Laden was working to assemble a team of militants to attack the U.S. on the 10th anniversary of 9/11, according to communications Navy SEALs seized from his Pakistani hideout when they killed the al Qaeda leader this spring.

Bin Laden and his operations chief, Attiyah Abd al-Rahman, swapped views about the composition of the attack team, with bin Laden repeatedly rejecting names that Mr. Rahman suggested, according to U.S. officials familiar with the intelligence taken from the bin Laden compound.

The plans were only in the discussion phase, U.S. officials said. They haven't seen any signs the nascent plot ever went beyond the early planning, the officials said.

Still, earlier this month in his first meeting with senior staff at the Central Intelligence Agency, acting Director Michael Morell told his staff that one of their top priorities would be to make sure that neither that plan nor any others were carried out.

Plans for an anniversary attack were one of the few specific potential threats to emerge from the trove of documents and other materials taken from bin Laden's residence in Abottabad, Pakistan, in the May 2 raid. An initial analysis of the evidence said al Qaeda hoped to attack trains in the U.S., possibly on the anniversary of Sept. 11.

Other plotting with Mr. Rahman focused on recruiting attackers who had legitimate passports and other travel documents.

Bin Laden communicated with Mr. Rahman largely via documents saved to flash drives that were delivered by trusted couriers, according to people briefed on the communications.

Much of the other threat information in the trove of materials was general in nature or well known, such as al Qaeda's interest in attacking trains.

In the days following the bin Laden raid, officials said the materials seized from the compound showed enthusiasm for carrying out attacks on dates of symbolic significance, prompting U.S. officials to worry about July 4 and Sept. 11. But officials didn't disclose at that time that there had been specific planning for another attack on Sept. 11 this year.

Mr. Rahman ascended within the terrorist organization after al Qaeda's third-in-command, Sheik Sa'id al-Masri, was killed last year in a CIA drone attack in Pakistan. Mr. Rahman has long been on the list of al Qaeda leaders targeted by the U.S.

The bin Laden documents show how central a figure Mr. Rahman had become for the al Qaeda organization, said people briefed on the documents. "Many were not aware of the day-to-day operations role that Attiyah played," said one person.

U.S. intelligence agencies don't know whether al Qaeda ever fielded an attack team or if other details were discussed. For instance, the U.S. doesn't know what targets, if any, bin Laden considered attacking.

Some U.S. officials cautioned that other materials in the trove showed bin Laden was often ignored by his underlings.

"What we found was that he was very isolated, and it is clearly the case he was struggling to continue to hold on to the type of influence and to direct operations in ways he may have been able to do in the past," a U.S. official said.

Counterterrorism officials from half-a-dozen U.S. agencies have completed their reviews of the bin Laden materials, much of which were held at a secure facility at CIA headquarters in Langley, Va.

Beyond the planning for an anniversary attack, the bin Laden trove produced few concrete leads of any sort, largely because information that might have located other terrorist leaders, such as phone numbers, ceased to have value almost the instant the U.S. government obtained it, officials said.

"The treasure trove has not led to any big takedowns, because the bad guys knew we had it" and adapted, a senior U.S. official said.

For example, the two phone numbers that bin Laden had sewn into his clothing at the time he was killed didn't provide actionable leads, the official said. One connected to a public phone center in the tribal areas of Pakistan. The other turned out to be a dead end.

Phone numbers retrieved from phones obtained at the bin Laden compound also led nowhere.

The Obama administration, worried about leaks inside the Pakistani government, did not warn Islamabad prior to the bin Laden raid, and the mission has incited a backlash of anti-U.S. anger. U.S. officials believe some elements of the Pakistani government knew bin Laden's whereabouts.

Since the raid, CIA officials have met repeatedly with their Pakistani counterparts to repair relations.

The most recent such meeting came on Thursday, when Pakistan's intelligence chief, Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, met with Mr. Morell at CIA headquarters. U.S. officials said the two men agreed on several steps to improve counterterrorism cooperation between the two nations. Gen. Pasha also met with lawmakers on Capitol Hill.

Past meetings have had mixed results. At a previous meeting, Mr. Morell provided Gen. Pasha with the locations of two bomb-making facilities. American officials were dismayed to discover subsequently that the militants abandoned the facilities before Pakistani authorities raided them.

Write to Siobhan Gorman at siobhan.gorman@wsj.com

Copyright 2011 Dow Jones & Company,

July 15th, 2011, 01:54 PM
This was one sick demented depraved SOB who made a career out of masterminding attacks that killed scores & scores of innocent people!!

Like Giuliani once said; Some people deserve to die, he NEEDED to die!

July 16th, 2011, 01:12 PM
According to ABC 7 he was also planning an attack on Obama, in particular Air Force One. He was not degraded to a point of being a benevolent grandfather Don Corleone figure. He may not have been as directly involved, but he was pulling the strings, & all of his 2nd-in commands that we've taken out so far show he was already transferring power, or at least doing some heavy delegating.

September 30th, 2011, 08:24 AM
http://www.nypost.com/rw/SysConfig/WebPortal/nypost/images/nyp_logo_230x32.png (http://www.nypost.com/) Updated: Fri., Sep. 30, 2011, 7:53 AM http://www.nypost.com/images/icon_home.png

US-born Al Qaeda cleric al-Awlaki killed in airstrike: Yemeni governmentLast Updated: 7:53 AM, September 30, 2011
Posted: 5:49 AM, September 30, 2011

SANAA, Yemen — Anwar al-Awlaki, a U.S.-born Islamic militant cleric who became a prominent figure in Al Qaeda's most active branch, using his fluent English and Internet savvy to draw recruits to carry out attacks in the United States, was killed Friday in the mountains of Yemen, American and Yemeni officials said.

The Yemeni government and Defense Ministry announced al-Awlaki’s death, but gave no details. A senior U.S. counterterrorism official said American intelligence supports the claim that he had been killed. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters.

American forces targeted Al Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki’s convoy with a drone and jet attack and believe he’s been killed, a U.S. counterterrorism official said Friday.
The counterterrorism official was not authorized to speak publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.

Al-Awlaki would be the most prominent Al Qaeda figure to be killed since Osama bin Laden’s death in a U.S. raid in Pakistan in May. In July, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said the Yemeni-American was a priority target alongside Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden’s successor as the terror network’s leader.

The 40-year-old al-Awlaki had been in the U.S. crosshairs since his killing was approved by President Barack Obama in April 2010 — making him the first American placed on the CIA “kill or capture” list. At least twice, airstrikes were called in on locations in Yemen where al-Awlaki was suspected of being, but he wasn’t harmed.

Al-Awlaki, born in New Mexico to Yemeni parents, was believed to be key in turning Al Qaeda's affiliate in Yemen into what American officials have called the most significant and immediate threat to the Untied States. The branch, led by a Yemeni militant named Nasser al-Wahishi, plotted several failed attacks on U.S. soil — the botched Christmas 2009 attempt to blow up an American airliner heading to Detroit and a foiled 2010 attempt to main explosives to Chicago.

Known as an eloquent preacher who spread English-language sermons on the internet calling for “holy war” against the United States, al-Awlaki’s role was to inspire and — it is believed — even directly recruit militants to carry out attacks.
He was not believed to be a key operational leader, but as a spokesman. His English skills gave him reach among second and third generation Muslims who may not speak Arabic.

Yemeni officials have said al-Awlaki had contacts with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the accused would-be Christmas plane bomber, who was in Yemen in 2009. They say the believe al-Awlaki met with the 23-year-old Nigerian, along with other Al Qaeda leaders, in Al Qaeda strongholds in the country in the weeks before the failed bombing.

Al-Awlaki’s death “will especially impact the group’s ability to recruit, inspire and raise funds as al-Awlaki’s influence and ability to connect to a broad demographic of potential supporters was unprecedented,” said terrorist analyst Ben Venzke of the private intelligence monitoring firm, the IntelCenter.

But Venzke said Al Qaeda in the Arab Peninsula will remain the most dangerous regional arm “both in its region and for the direct threat it poses to the U.S. following three recent failed attacks,” with AQAP leader Nasir al-Wahayshi still at large.
Venzke said al-Awlaki was due to release a new article in the next issue of AQAP’s Inspire magazine justifying attacking civilians in the West.
“The article, which may already have been completed, was announced by AQAP on Tuesday as being entitled, ‘Targeting Populations of Countries at War with Muslims,’” he said.

In New York, the Pakistani-American man who pleaded guilty to the May 2010 Times Square car bombing attempt told interrogators he was “inspired” by al-Awlaki after making contact over the Internet.

Al-Awlaki also exchanged up to 20 emails with U.S. Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, alleged killer of 13 people in the Nov. 5, 2009, rampage at Fort Hood. Hasan initiated the contacts, drawn by al-Awlaki’s Internet sermons, and approached him for religious advice.
Al-Awlaki has said he didn’t tell Hasan to carry out the shootings, but he later praised Hasan as a “hero” on his Web site for killing American soldiers who would be heading for Afghanistan or Iraq to fight Muslims. The cleric similarly said Abdulmutallab was his “student” but said he never told him to carry out the airline attack.

In a statement, the Yemeni government said al-Awlaki was “targeted and killed” 5 miles (8 kilometers) from the town of Khashef in the Province of al-Jawf. The town is located 87 miles (140 kilometers) east of the capital Sanaa.

The statement says the operation was launched on Friday around 9:55 a.m. It gave no other details.
The Yemeni Defense Ministry also reported the death, without elaborating, in a mobile phone SMS message.

Yemen, the Arab world’s most impoverished nation, has become a haven for hundreds of Al Qaeda militants. The United States has been deeply concerned that militants will take advantage of the country’s political turmoil to strengthen their positions. In recent months, militants have seized control of several cities in Yemen’s south.

A previous attack against al-Awlaki on May 5, shortly after the May raid that killed Osama bin Laden, was carried out by a combination of U.S. drones and jets.

The operation was run by the U.S. military’s elite counterterrorism unit, the Joint Special Operations Command — the same unit that got bin Laden. JSOC has worked closely with Yemeni counterterrorism forces for years, in the fight against Al Qaeda.

Top U.S. counterterrorism adviser John Brennan says such cooperation with Yemen has improved since the political unrest there. Brennan said the Yemenis have been more willing to share information about the location of Al Qaeda targets, as a way to fight the Yemeni branch challenging them for power. Other U.S. officials say the Yemenis have also allowed the U.S. to fly more armed drone and aircraft missions over its territory than ever previously, trying to use U.S. military power to stay in power. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.

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November 7th, 2011, 09:21 PM
This version seems like the version you'd think they would have wanted to tell in the first place.

Correcting the ‘fairy tale’: A SEAL’s account of how Osama bin Laden really died

The Daily Caller – 10 hrs ago

Forget whatever you think you know about the night Osama bin Laden was killed. According to a former Navy SEAL who claims to have the inside track, the mangled tales told of that historic night have only now been corrected.
“It became obvious in the weeks evolving after the mission that the story that was getting put out there was not only untrue, but it was a really ugly farce of what did happen,” said Chuck Pfarrer, author of Seal Target Geronimo (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=14ad18uvj/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//www.amazon.com/SEAL-Target-Geronimo-Inside-Mission/dp/125000635X/ref=sr_1_1%3Fie=UTF8%26qid=1320639782%26sr=8-1): The Inside Story of the Mission to Kill Osama Bin Laden.
In an extensive interview with The Daily Caller, Pfarrer gave a detailed account of why he believes the record needed to be corrected, and why he set out to share the personal stories of the warriors who penetrated bin Laden’s long-secret compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan.
In August the New Yorker delivered a riveting blow-by-blow of the SEALs’ May 1, 2011 raid on bin Laden’s hideaway. In that account (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=13ass7qth/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle%3FcurrentPage=all), later reported (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=152o0n928/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/freelance-journalist-scores-coup-with-account-of-bin-laden-raid/2011/08/02/gIQAEiaeqI_story.html) to lack contributions from the SEALs involved, readers are taken through a mission that began with a top-secret helicopter crashing and led to a bottom-up assault of the Abbottabad compound.
Freelancer Nicholas Schmidle wrote that the SEALs had shot and blasted their way up floor-by-floor, finally cornering the bewildered Al-Qaida leader:
“The Al Qaeda chief, who was wearing a tan shalwar kameez and a prayer cap on his head, froze; he was unarmed. ‘There was never any question of detaining or capturing him—it wasn’t a split-second decision. No one wanted detainees,’ the special-operations officer told me. (The Administration maintains that had bin Laden immediately surrendered he could have been taken alive.) Nine years, seven months, and twenty days after September 11th, an American was a trigger pull from ending bin Laden’s life. The first round, a 5.56-mm. bullet, struck bin Laden in the chest. As he fell backward, the SEAL fired a second round into his head, just above his left eye.”

Chuck Pfarrer rejects almost all of that story.
“The version of the 45-minute firefight, and the ground-up assault, and the cold-blooded murder on the third floor — that wasn’t the mission,” Pfarrer told TheDC.
“I had to try and figure out, well, look: Why is this story not what I’m hearing? Why is it so off and how is it so off?” he recounted. “One of the things I sort of determined was, OK, somebody was told ‘one of the insertion helicopters crashed.’ OK, well that got muddled to ‘a helicopter crashed on insertion.’”
The helicopters, called “Stealth Hawks,” are inconspicuous machines concealing cutting-edge technology. They entered the compound as planned, with “Razor 1″ disembarking its team of SEALs on the roof of the compound — not on the ground level. There was no crash landing. That wouldn’t occur until after bin Laden was dead.
Meanwhile, “Razor 2″ took up a hovering position so that its on-board snipers, some of whom had also participated in the sea rescue of Maersk Alabama captain Richard Phillips, had a clear view of anyone fleeing the compound.
The SEALs then dropped down from the roof, immediately penetrated the third floor, and hastily encountered bin Laden in his room. He was not standing still.

“He dived across the king-size bed to get at the AKSU rifle he kept by the headboard,”(??) wrote Pfarrer in his book. It was at that moment, a mere 90 seconds after the SEALs first set foot on the roof, that two American bullets shattered bin Laden’s chest and head, killing a man who sought violence to the very end.
President Obama stepped up to a podium in the East Room of the White House that night to announce bin Laden’s death. That rapid announcement, explained Pfarrer, posed a major threat to U.S. national security.
“There was a choice that night,” Pfarrer told TheDC. “There was a choice to keep the mission secret.” America, Pfarrer explained, could have left things alone for “weeks or months … even though there was evidence left on the ground there … and use the intelligence and finish off al-Qaida.”
But Obama’s announcement, he said, “rendered moot all of the intelligence that was gathered from the nexus of al-Qaida. The computer drives, the hard drives, the videocasettes, the CDs, the thumb drives, everything. Before that could even be looked through, the political decision was made to take credit for the operation.”
And in the days that followed, as politicians sought to thrust their identities into the details of the bin Laden kill, the tale began to grow out of control, said Pfarrer.

“The president made a statement, and as far as that goes, that was fine, that was the mission statement,” he explained. “But, soon after … politicians began leaking information from every orifice. And it was like a game of Chinese telephone. These guys didn’t know what they were talking about. Very few of them had even seen the video feed.”
Pfarrer suggests that much of the misinformation was likely born out of operational ignorance, even among those sitting in the White House.
“One of the things that happened was that there were only a handful of people who know about this mission,” he said. “On the civilian side, there were only a handful of people in the situation room who were watching the drone feed. They were looking at the roof of a building taken from a rotating aircraft at 35,000 feet.”
“None of those guys, not a single one of them, had a background in special operations, with the exception of General Webb who was sitting there running a laptop,” Pfarrer went on. “No one knew or could even imagine what was going on inside the building. They didn’t know.”
“There was an alternative feed going to CIA headquarters where Leon Panetta sat there with the communications brevity codes [a guide sheet for the mission's radio lingo] in his lap and a SEAL off-screen by his side to be able to tell him what was going on,” he said. “But these guys, none of them, really knew what they were looking at.”
As the media raised more questions, officials gave more answers.

Whether or not bin Laden resisted ultimately developed into a barrage of murky official and unofficial explanations in the days following. And statements from as high as then-CIA Director Leon Panetta offered confirmation (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=130710brl/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//thepage.time.com/2011/05/03/panetta-public-likely-to-see-obl-picture/) that the endeavor was a “kill mission.”
Pfarrer dismisses that assertion.
“An order to go in and murder someone in their house is not a lawful order,” explained Pfarrer, who maintains that bin Laden would have been captured had he surrendered. “Unlike the Germans in World War II, if you’re a petty officer, a chief petty officer, a naval officer, and you’re giving an order to murder somebody, that’s an unlawful order.”
Pfarrer also suggests some of the emerging claims were simply self-aggrandizing “fairy tales.”
“The story they tried to tell — it’s preposterous. And the CIA tried to jump in. About mid-June the CIA tried to jump into the car and drive the victory lap. There’s this whole stuff about the CIA guy joining the operation, the gallant interpreter — he couldn’t even fast rope!” exclaimed Pfarrer, referring to a technique (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=11sgu51hf/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast-roping) for descending from an airborne helicopter.
“There’s this fairy tale about him walking out of the compound during the operation to tell crowds of Pakistanis to go home and everything’s OK.”
Pfarrer tried to put this in perspective: “Do you mean that during the middle of this military operation at night, with hovering helicopters over this odd house in this neighborhood, that people came out of their houses to ask what’s going on, instead of [remaining] huddled in their basement?”

“And I think that there were so many of these leaks that were incorrect, the administration couldn’t walk them all back,” Pfarrer explained. “And so, in the middle of May, they froze everything.”
It was that freeze-out that left Chuck Pfarrer with nowhere to turn for the real story but the SEALs themselves.
Seal Target Geronimo (http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/SIG=14ad18uvj/EXP=1321927453/**http%3A//www.amazon.com/SEAL-Target-Geronimo-Inside-Mission/dp/125000635X/ref=sr_1_1%3Fie=UTF8%26qid=1320639782%26sr=8-1) delivers an account of the night Osama bin Laden died with a level of detail unlike anything previously reported. Pfarrer bills the story as “absolutely factual.”
“That’s the other thing. I’m prepared for the White House to say, you know, ‘this is full of inaccuracies,’ et cetera,” offered Pfarrer. He told TheDC that in order to protect American interests, his book is “full of names that are made up, and it is full of bases that are not quite where they really should be.”
“But the timeline of my events,” he cautions, “and the manner in which it happened is 100 percent accurate. And they’ll know that.”


November 7th, 2011, 09:25 PM
“He dived across the king-size bed to get at the AKSU rifle he kept by the headboard,”(??) wrote Pfarrer in his book. It was at that moment, a mere 90 seconds after the SEALs first set foot on the roof, that two American bullets shattered bin Laden’s chest and head

How did they get a clean shot to the head & chest if he was diving across the bed?

November 9th, 2011, 08:57 AM
You know something....

I really do not care.

When the truth comes out that he choked to death on a twinkie and was found dead by navy seals... the story will lose some of its oomph.

November 9th, 2011, 09:19 PM
Either way he died a violent death, but there really was no need - if what this guy says is true - to change the story. If the original story was that he just stood there, but it really turned out that he was diving for a weapon, that's the strangest embellishment, or de-embellishment, I've ever heard.

November 10th, 2011, 08:33 AM
He was actually involved in the Penn State sex crime scandal and the seals were only there to let him know that he was being brought up on charges.

I guess he took it the wrong way...

November 10th, 2011, 03:50 PM
Yep, sh*t happens. Tough luck.

March 7th, 2012, 08:51 PM
The Bravo channel may want to branch out. Introducing: The Real Housewives of Pakistan

In bin Laden's lair, his wives split by suspicions

Posted: 03/07/2012 01:20:36 PM MST
March 8, 2012 12:42 AM GMT Updated: 03/07/2012 05:42:15 PM MST
By KATHY GANNON Associated PressAssociated Press

Click photo to enlarge http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site333/2012/0307/20120307__ASPakistanBinLadensLastDays~1_VIEWER.jpg (http://www.denverpost.com/portlet/article/html/render_gallery.jsp?articleId=20122182&siteId=36&startImage=1)

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site333/2012/0307/20120307__ASPakistanBinLadensLastDays~1_VIEWER.jpg http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site333/2012/0307/20120307__ASPakistanBinLadensLastDays~2_VIEWER.jpg http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site333/2012/0307/20120307__ASPakistanBinLadensLastDays~3_VIEWER.jpg http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site333/2012/0307/20120307__ASPakistanBinLadensLastDays~4_VIEWER.jpg
RAWALPINDI, Pakistan—Osama bin Laden spent his last weeks in a house divided, amid wives riven by suspicions. On the top floor, sharing his bedroom, was his youngest wife and favorite. The trouble came when his eldest wife showed up and moved into the bedroom on the floor below.
Others in the family, crammed into the three-story villa compound where bin Laden would eventually be killed in a May 2 U.S. raid, were convinced that the eldest wife intended to betray the al-Qaida leader.
The picture of bin Laden's life in the Abbottabad compound comes from Brig. Shaukat Qadir, a retired Pakistani army officer who spent months researching the events and says he was given rare access to transcripts of Pakistani intelligence's interrogation of bin Laden's youngest wife, who was detained in the raid.
Qadir was also given rare entry into the villa, which was sealed after the raid and demolished last month. Pictures he took, which he allowed The Associated Press to see, showed the villa's main staircase, splattered with blood. Other pictures show windows protected by iron grills and the 20-foot high walls around the villa.
Qadir's research gives one of the most extensive descriptions of the arrangements in bin Laden's hideout when U.S. SEAL commandos stormed in, killing bin Laden and four others. His account is based on accounts by an official of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency who escorted him on a tour of the villa, the interrogation transcription he was allowed to read, and interviews with other ISI officials and al-Qaida-linked militants and tribesmen in the Afghan-Pakistan border region.

The compound where bin Laden lived since mid-2005 was a crowded place, with 28 residents—including bin Laden, his three wives, eight of his children and five of his grandchildren. The bin Laden children ranged in age from his 24-year-old son Khaled, who was killed in the raid, to a 3-year-old born during their time in Abbottabad. Bin Laden's courier, the courier's brother and their wives and children also lived in the compound.
The 54-year-old bin Laden himself seemed aged beyond his years, with suspected kidney or stomach diseases, and there were worries over his mental health, Qadir said he was told by ISI officials and an al-Qaida member he interviewed in the border regions.
Bin Laden lived and died on the third floor. One room he shared with his youngest wife, Amal Ahmed Abdel-Fatah al-Sada, a Yemeni who was 19 when she married the al-Qaida leader in 1999. Another wife, Siham Saber, lived in another room on the same floor that also served as a computer room, Qadir told AP.

The arrival of his eldest wife, Saudi-born Khairiah Saber, in early 2011 stirred up the household, Amal said in her ISI interrogation, according to Qadir.
There was already bad blood between Khairiah, who married bin Laden in the late 1980s, and Amal because of bin Laden's favoritism for the younger Yemeni woman, Qadir said he was told by tribal leaders who knew the family.
Even ISI officials who questioned Khairiah after the raid were daunted by her.
"She is so aggressive that she borders on being intimidating," Qadir said he was told by an ISI interrogator.
Amal stayed close to bin Laden as he fled Afghanistan into Pakistan following the 2001 U.S. invasion. She took an active role in arranging protection for him and bin Laden wanted her by his side, the tribal leaders told Qadir.
Khairiah fled Afghanistan in 2001 into Iran along with other bin Laden relatives and al-Qaida figures. She and others were held under house arrest in Iran until 2010, when Tehran let them leave in a swap for an Iranian diplomat kidnapped in Pakistan's frontier city of Peshawar.
Khairiah showed up at Abbottabad in February or March 2011 and moved into the villa's second floor, Amal told her interrogators.

Khalid, bin Laden's son with Siham, was suspicious, according to Amal's account. He repeatedly asked Khairiah why she had come. At one point, she told him, "I have one final duty to perform for my husband." Khalid immediately told his father what she had said and warned that she intended to betray him.
Amal, who shared Khalid's fears, said bin Laden was also suspicious but was unconcerned, acting as if fate would decide, according to Qadir's recounting of the interrogation transcript.
There is no evidence Khairiah had any role in bin Laden's end. Accounts by Pakistani and U.S. intelligence officials since the May 2 raid have made no mention of her. Instead, U.S. officials have said the courier inadvertently led the CIA to the Abbottabad villa after they uncovered him in a monitored phone call.
The courier, a Pakistani known by his pseudonym Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, lived with his wife and four children on the villa's first floor. His brother, his wife and three children lived in a guest house in the compound. Al-Kuwaiti, his brother and the brother's wife were killed in the raid.
Bin Laden had two marriages before Khairiah that ended in divorce and had more than 20 children with his various wives.

Amal gave her interrogators details on bin Laden's movements after fleeing Afghanistan. Her account underscored that bin Laden did not stay long in Pakistan's tribal-run regions on the border where the United States long presumed he was holed up.
She and bin Laden hid for several months in 2002 in Salman Talab, a suburb of Kohat, a northwest Pakistani border town. There bin Laden was visited at least once by Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind arrested in Rawalpindi on March 1, 2003.
Amal said they moved constantly to avoid being spotted for several months in South Waziristan, a border region. In 2004, she and other family members went to Shangla, a town in the Swat Valley, 80 miles (128 kilometers) northwest of the capital Islamabad. Bin Laden joined them by doubling back through Afghanistan because it was feared he could be identified if he crossed Pakistan.
Later in 2004, they moved to Haripur, only 20 miles (33 kilometers) from Islamabad, according to the interrogation transcripts. After several months there, they moved in the summer of 2005 to the villa in Abbottabad, a town 30 miles (50 kilometers) from the capital and home to a large military base.

ISI officials contacted by the AP refused to comment on Qadir's account. The wives and bin Laden family members who were in the villa during the raid remain in Pakistani custody.
Qadir, a 35-year veteran and now a security consultant, took it upon himself to research what happened in the May 2 raid. He relied on contacts in the ISI and in the border regions where he was long based.
An old friend who is a brigadier in the ISI allowed Qadir to read the transcripts of the interrogations of Amal. Qadir asked that the ISI brigadier not be identified because the information remains classified.
Qadir said he was allowed to visit the villa four times, most recently in November. He described the bin Laden bedroom, saying one wall was peppered with bulletholes and splattered with blood, which his ISI escort told him was from Amal, who was shot in the leg during the raid. There was also blood on the ceiling, which Qadir presumed was from bin Laden, who was shot through the eye.
Qadir said he was struck by the lack of defenses—no basement, no warning system, no escape routes. "It was a death trap if it were ever attacked."

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March 16th, 2012, 05:17 PM
Barack Obama, the "head of infidelity" (says the man with 3 wives)

March 19th, 2012, 08:48 AM
They turned him into a Newt.

February 11th, 2013, 12:12 PM
The man who shot bin Laden

Interview of "The Shooter" (http://cironline.org/node/4139) by Phil Bronstein.

The Man Who Shot Bin Laden Breaks His Silence

Demolition of bin Laden compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan
AP Photo/Anjum Naveed

Dashiell Bennett

Phil Bronstein got the first interviews (http://cironline.org/node/4139) with the man who actually fired the bullets that killed Osama bin Laden—a man who is a hero to most Americans, but whose story since leaving the Navy has not been a happy one. Bronstein, the former editor of the San Francisco Chronicle, talked to multiple members of the Navy SEAL team that carried out the famous mission, and says he has confirmed the identify of the man who pulled the trigger, though he won't be revealing his name.

"The Shooter," as Bronstein refers to him in the piece, was a long-time veteran of the Navy who is well aware of the gravity of what he did, but is now forced to live a life of obscurity and financial instability after leaving the military with almost nothing to show for his heroic deeds. Bronstein's story adds a ton of fascinating first-person details about the mission to kill bin Laden, taken directly from the man who was the last to see him alive. But perhaps, even more interesting than the raid, is the fate of those who lived to tell about it.

Unlike Matt Bissonette, the outed SEAL teammate who immediately wrote a book about his story (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/08/despite-death-threats-navy-seal-author-shows-his-face/56361/), The Shooter has avoided any attempts to cash in on his fame—partly because of "the code of the 'quiet professional'" and partly because he fears reprisals from terrorists should his identity become known. His wife, who he is separated from, and kids are considering changing their names to legally distance themselves from The Shooter. He also taught her how to use a shotgun, should she have to defend herself in an attack. But The Shooter, mired in anonymity, finds himself out of work and unable to use his most marketable asset to his advantage.

Even more shocking is the treatment he's getting—or not getting—since leaving the Navy. The Shooter retired last year after 16 years in the service. Unfortunately, you have to stay 20 years to get a Navy pension, so by leaving four years early he gets nothing. Even if he had stayed, The Shooter's pension for half a lifetime of dangerous combat work would be the same as a member of the Navy choir. The government cut off his health insurance the day he quit, and it takes an average of nine months for the Navy to adjudicate disability claims, of which he has several.

Despite President Obama's frequent assertion that "No one who fights for this country overseas should ever have to fight for a job," The Shooter is yet another veteran who appears to be left to his own devices. His only real option for steady employment is as a security contractor, which means more guns and more overseas deployments, a career path he says no longer interests him.

There's much more to find in Bronstein's piece, which appears in the March issue of Esquire (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/08/despite-death-threats-navy-seal-author-shows-his-face/56361/) and at the Center of Investigative Reporting, which he is chairman of. With Zero Dark Thirty still in theaters and on the minds of many Americans, the details of the raid from someone who lived it are riveting—including his review of the movie itself. (According to The Shooter, the filmed version of the raid is too long; nobody talks in the middle of missions like that; and "Maya," the CIA agent at the heart of the story, is just as tough in real life. And actually a woman (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2012/12/wait-what-apparently-zero-dark-thirty-character-actually-dude/60037/). The Shooter says he gave her his gun clip as souvenir of the raid.)

For the first time we also get The Shooter's thoughts about taking down one of the most wanted men in history. He claims that for most of his life he believed he was put on Earth to do something special and now he's done it. Though he isn't about to spend the rest of his life bragging about it.

I remember as I watched him breathe out the last part of air, I thought: Is this the best thing I've ever done, or the worst thing I've ever done?

Copyright © 2013 by The Atlantic Monthly Group

March 7th, 2013, 01:41 PM
[size=4]Bin Laden son-in-law arrested in Jordan is brought to New York/size]

1:23pm EST

By Mark Hosenball

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A son-in-law of Osama bin Laden who served as al Qaeda's spokesman was arrested in Jordan and then brought to New York in an operation led by Jordanian authorities and the FBI, U.S. government sources said on Thursday.

The sources said Suleiman Abu Ghaith, a militant who appeared in videos representing al Qaeda after the September 11, attacks on New York and Washington in 2001, had initially been picked up in Turkey.

The Turkish government deported him to Jordan, said the sources, where local authorities and the FBI took custody of him. He had been brought to the United States in the last few days, a law enforcement source said.

Abu Ghaith is now being held in a detention facility in the New York City area and is expected to be charged and eventually brought to trial in federal court. The trial would most likely be in U.S. District Court in lower Manhattan, only blocks from the site of the World Trade Center, which was destroyed in the September 11 attacks, a law enforcement source said.

The Justice Department declined to comment and the FBI did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Initial public confirmation of Abu Ghaith's capture came from Representative Peter King, a senior Republican member of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee and former chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security.

"I commend our CIA and FBI, our allies in Jordan, and President (Barack) Obama for their capture of al-Qaeda spokesman Sulaiman Abu Ghaith. I trust he received a vigorous interrogation, and will face swift and certain justice," King said in a statement.

"Propaganda statements in which Abu Ghaith and his late father-in-law, Osama bin Laden, praised the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 are alone enough to merit the most serious punishment."

U.S. sources indicated that, while a CIA role in the capture of Abu Ghaith could not be ruled out, the FBI took the lead role in the operation under the auspices of an interagency body known as the High-value Detainee Interrogation Group.

The group was created by Obama's administration after the president ordered the shutdown of a CIA program in which militant suspects were detained and held in a network of secret prisons, during the administration of President George W. Bush.

The suspects were sometimes subjected to controversial and physically coercive "enhanced interrogation techniques," and also were sometimes transferred without trial to third countries under a procedure known as "extraordinary rendition."

Records compiled by a United Nations sanctions committee show that Abu Ghaith was born in Kuwait in 1965, but that he left Kuwait for Pakistan in June 2001.

After the September 11 attacks, Abu Ghaith first surfaced as one of al Qaeda's main spokesmen. Later, U.S. officials believe he was part of a group of top al Qaeda figures that included one of bin Laden's sons, Saad, who allegedly traveled to Iran, where the Iranian government claimed they were being held "in custody."

The Long War Journal, a counterterrorism blog published by the conservative Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, reported in 2010 that Abu Ghaith had been released by Iranian authorities and supposedly had returned to Afghanistan.

(Editing by Warren Strobel and Christopher Wilson)

© Thomson Reuters 2011