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infoshare
June 11th, 2011, 11:16 AM
I have been waiting for someone to start this thread - so I decide to take the initiative. Good article by Tibor here (http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Machan/The_Weiner_Paradox.shtml).

Quote from Anthony Weiner
"Please understand i am a very important man. I'm always busy but i promise i will make time for you soon! Don't the pictures I send keep you satisfied?"

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/ga_peach_you_can_pluck_me_K5iYxKG2zMIXp3y8xswstK#i xzz1OyreVca3

The issue is not so much that this guy takes part in kinky internet activities: the issue is that he is a 'politician' and a 'crazy-person'. This is more common than most are willing to acknowledge - but when the truth is exposed, the 'pol' has got to go.

Let's see 'how long' before we get a picture of the 'wiener' posted here on this thread.

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Machan/The_Weiner_Paradox.shtml

stache
June 11th, 2011, 11:26 AM
There is a cock shot of him available online. It's healthy. I find it difficult to understand how anyone could possibly think stuff like this would not get picked up by the media.

infoshare
June 11th, 2011, 11:29 AM
I find it difficult to understand how anyone could possibly think stuff like this would not get picked up by the media.

Thank you so much for addressing the 'main contention' of my post: he is a total 'crackpot'. Nothing wrong with a little sexual perversion - but his actions show an almost complete detachment from reality.

Sadly, that quality now seem to be prerequisite to becoming a politician.

cheers

infoshare
June 11th, 2011, 11:42 AM
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7464/weinertorso.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/weinertorso.jpg/)

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 12:43 PM
At least he keeps pictures of the family in the background :cool:




... an almost complete detachment from reality.

Sadly, that quality now seem to be prerequisite to becoming a politician.


Detachment or Compartmentalization to the Nth Degree? (maybe the same thing)

Whichever, given that this seems to be true across the board, then why should Wiener, who fights hard for causes important to his constituents, be tossed aside?

Polls in his district show that his people want him to stay.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, isn't it far worse to give a pass to politicians and others who lie about money and war? Those mega-liars are still in office, but the media is all in a Twitter over this and has been playing Wiener All The Time.

ZippyTheChimp
June 11th, 2011, 01:56 PM
I have no problem with this for only one reason.

No hypocrisy.

I know of no instance where Weiner has made a political issue of "family values."

Families are complex.

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 02:31 PM
Democratic leadership is now calling for Weiner to go (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/11/pelosi-israel-tell-weiner-he-should-resign/).

Apparently the breaking point is due to on-line contact (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56740.html) with a 17-year old girl in Delaware.

Age of Consent for a woman in Delaware is 16 (http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/delaware-age-of-consent-lawyers.html).

stache
June 11th, 2011, 03:18 PM
At least he keeps pictures of the family in the background :cool:


Also a photo of Bill Clinton in that group. lol!

ZippyTheChimp
June 11th, 2011, 03:35 PM
Apparently the breaking point is due to on-line contact with a 17-year old girl in Delaware.Well, that's it.

Age-of-consent may keep him out of criminal trouble, but politically, he's dead.

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 03:51 PM
If the pics never happened, the 17 y/o would've been a non-issue. I've read there was nothing inappropriate about the communications between them - strictly political - but after all that's gone on, I'm sure mama bear is separating her cub.

Politically, if he's not dead, he'll take a massive hit & be a lifetime congressman, like Ted K. because of Chappaquidick. His local people will always support him, but he won't get any further.

Not only looking at the fact that he did it in the first place, but in the age of instant worldwide access does show a detachment from reality. There's not one of us out there who doesn't have a dirty shirt hanging somewhere, but someone in his position, it's "wtf was he thinking?" all over again.

As far as the male psyche, the thing I always wonder when these things happen is, wouldn't anonymous internet porn have been enough?

infoshare
June 11th, 2011, 04:13 PM
Breaking news: he has agreed in go into therapy. Ultimately I hope he resigns from politics: for good - and certainly not resurface as a talk show host as did Eliot Spitzer. Breitbart is now vindicated: and rightfully so, Weiner shamefully (and others) tried to pin this whole thing on him and operatives at his website. (http://biggovernment.com/tag/andrew-breitbart/)

http://biggovernment.com/tag/andrew-breitbart/

ZippyTheChimp
June 11th, 2011, 04:18 PM
Why shouldn't he be a talk-show host?

Like it's a stellar group?

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Too bad; Weiner may have been the only one to save NYC from the horrid fate of Christine Quinn becoming our next mayor.

Hoping Alec Baldwin really will run (http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20110608/pl_dailycaller/alecbaldwintorunfornycmayorinweinergateaftermath).

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 04:26 PM
Breaking news: he has agreed in go into therapy ...

Breitbart is now vindicated ...

Unfortunately for Breitbart, the dour Andrew B has a sluggish personality.

And seems he can't differentiate between a real news story (such as this) and the other made up stuff he hocks around.

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Loft, Weiner posted sexual pics on twitter from his own home, but Alec Baldwin called his daughter a pig. Even if most of his anger was really directed at the ex, that's not something you can really take back. Don't worry, there will be plenty of libs to run in the next mayoral without having to worry about Christine Quinn. Baldwin seems a little too unstable.

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah, but how many will have Bloomberg's machine behind them? That was the deal when Quinn OK'd the Bloomberg 3rd term coup -- whether or not he's a man of his word and will make good on it remains to be seen.

I'd prefer unstable over a corporate whore of the worst sort.

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 08:01 PM
whether or not he's a man of his word and will make good on it remains to be seen.

You mean not pushing for a 4th term?

lofter1
June 11th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Don't think he'd dare do that. Meant giving his all to assure a win for Quinn.

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 08:12 PM
Got it. Anyway, I don't think he'd try either. He knows he wouldn't win. Especially after snow-gate, closing firehouses, etc.

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 08:25 PM
Gratuitous weiner shot!!

13282:D

mariab
June 11th, 2011, 11:00 PM
Weinergate: Cops probe Rep. Anthony Weiner's Tweets to minor, pol's team says it was G-rated

BY Alison Gendar (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Alison%20Gendar), Reuven Blau (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Reuven%20Blau) AND Corky Siemaszko (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Corky%20Siemaszko)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
Saturday, June 11th 2011, 4:00 AM


http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/11/alg_anthony-weiner-ascan-avenue.jpg Joe Marino for News
Congressman Anthony Weiner wades through a throng of reporters as he leaves his Forest Hills, Queens, apartment Friday.

Creepy congressman Anthony Weiner (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Anthony+Weiner) exchanged private tweets with a 17-year-old high school girl - but he insists he kept his pants on.


Two officers from the New Castle County Police Department (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Castle+County+Police+Department) in Delaware (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Delaware) went to the girl's house Friday and interviewed the teenager, who the Daily News is not identifying, and looked over her computer.
She told them Weiner kept it clean, police said.
"They were made aware of an alleged contact between Congressman Anthony Weiner and an area teen," said Officer Tracey Duffy (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tracey+Duffy), a New Castle (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Castle) police spokeswoman. "The teen has been interviewed and disclosed no information regarding any criminal activity."
She said the investigation was continuing.
A spokeswoman for Weiner said "his communications with this person were neither explicit nor indecent."
A source close to the girl, who has just finished her junior year, backed him up.

PHOTOS: Meet the women involved in Weinergate (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/galleries/weinergate_2011_/weinergate_2011_.html)

"She was not targeted in any way and did not receive any inappropriate messages or photos or anything from the congressman," the source told The News. "If she had, her family would have filed charges."
But the girl and Weiner did exchange a handful of private direct messages, and in one he described himself as a superhero and wrote: "I came back strong. Large. Tights and cape. ..."
Weiner has admitted committing virtual adultery with six ladies he met on the Web and insisted "to the best of my knowledge they were all adults."
Some conservative bloggers have zeroed-in on an excited tweet the girl posted on April 13 in which she declared, "Seriously talking to Representative Weiner from New York (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York) right now! Like is my life real?"
Two days later, she complained that Weiner was no longer following her on Twitter (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Twitter+Inc.).
"The blogs have taken a few tweets from a 17-year-old kid and put their own twist on messages that were just kid stuff," the source said.
Last night, media gathered outside the girl's house north of Wilmington (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Wilmington), and a shirtless man threatened reporters with an ax. He was taken into custody.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/12/alg_axe_wielding_guy.jpg
(Suchat Pederson/AP)
The developments came as Weiner got his first shoutout of support from a prominent Democrat - Harlem (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Harlem) heavyweight Rep. Charlie Rangel (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Charles+Rangel) - since his sexting scandal erupted.
"Not one person has given any reason for a resignation," Rangel said.
Rangel, who refused to quit last year after he was censured by the House for failing to pay taxes on his rental income, said he doesn't condone Weiner's X-rated computer conduct.
"I know one thing, he wasn't going with prostitutes," Rangel said. "He wasn't going out with little boys. He wasn't going into men's rooms with broad stances."
Rangel was referring, in order, to Louisiana Sen. David Vitter (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Vitter), who cheated on his wife with hookers; Florida Rep. Mark Foley (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Mark+Foley), who sent sleazy e-mails to teenage boys; and Idaho Sen. Larry "Wide Stance" Craig, who got busted for lewdness in an airport rest room.
All three are Republicans (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/U.S.+Republican+Party). Vitter remains in the Senate.
Weiner, 46, whose district encompasses parts of Queens and Brooklyn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brooklyn+(New+York+City)), has a solid majority that wants him to stay, according to a recent New York 1 (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/NY1+News)/Marist poll.
With George Miller (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/George+Miller), Erin Einhorn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Erin+Einhorn), Celeste Katz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Celeste+Katz) and Anjali Mullany (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Anjali+Mullany)
csiemaszko@nydailynews.com (csiemaszko@nydailynews.com)



I think they'd better heed the warnings of the guy with the ax. Custody or not, he looks like he wouldn't hesitate.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/06/11/2011-06-11_the_twit_tweeted_a_teen_cops_probe_contact_with _minor_weiner_camp_says_it_was_gr.html#ixzz1P1jANi eB

lofter1
June 12th, 2011, 11:53 AM
That woman is not a "minor" under Delaware law. But it sounds so much nastier when she's called a "girl."

KenNYC
June 12th, 2011, 12:02 PM
Democratic leadership is now calling for Weiner to go (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/06/11/pelosi-israel-tell-weiner-he-should-resign/).

Apparently the breaking point is due to on-line contact (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56740.html) with a 17-year old girl in Delaware.

Age of Consent for a woman in Delaware is 16 (http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/delaware-age-of-consent-lawyers.html).

As soon as the contact crosses state borders, federal law is in play, however. And federal age of consent is 18.

That being said, there's no indication (as far as I can tell) that he had any form if inappropriate contact with this 17 year old.

ZippyTheChimp
June 12th, 2011, 12:09 PM
Politically, he's toast. Showing Mr Johnson online + contact with a teenager online is a volatile combination. It may not be fair, but that's the way it is.

stache
June 12th, 2011, 12:12 PM
They will make the argument (and who knows) that he was grooming the young lady.

dougm
June 12th, 2011, 04:12 PM
Politically, he's toast. Showing Mr Johnson online + contact with a teenager online is a volatile combination. It may not be fair, but that's the way it is.

Although I can tell at least most of the folks on this thread are Rep. Weiner supporters, the way he is being treated is hardly unfair. Sending naked pictures of yourself when you are a US Congressman, then lying about it, is not a small thing. He could easily be blackmailed or manipulated, and if this was not illegal, it was right on the edge. It also calls his judgement into question -- why in the world would he have thought this would not be discovered at some point? He either had a death wish for his career, or he considered himself above us regular people.

Either way, I would be looking for someone else if people want the issues he supported put forth. This is bad judgement on steroids.

dougm
June 12th, 2011, 04:17 PM
Too bad; Weiner may have been the only one to save NYC from the horrid fate of Christine Quinn becoming our next mayor.

Hoping Alec Baldwin really will run (http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailycaller/20110608/pl_dailycaller/alecbaldwintorunfornycmayorinweinergateaftermath).

If Weiner or Baldwin are the best candidates, you have BIG problems!

ZippyTheChimp
June 12th, 2011, 04:23 PM
Mrs Weiner is in Africa with Hillary. Wonder what they're talking about.

ZippyTheChimp
June 12th, 2011, 04:28 PM
"She was not targeted in any way and did not receive any inappropriate messages or photos or anything from the congressman," the source told The News. "If she had, her family would have filed charges."

But the girl and Weiner did exchange a handful of private direct messages, and in one he described himself as a superhero and wrote: "I came back strong. Large. Tights and cape. ..."If the wife found out that I sent that message to a 17 year old, I'd have to hide all the cutlery.

dougm
June 12th, 2011, 04:29 PM
Mrs Weiner is in Africa with Hillary. Wonder what they're talking about.

A good person to be with, Mrs. Clinton. She's been there, and done that, although under somewhat different circumstances.

dougm
June 12th, 2011, 04:31 PM
if the wife found out that i sent that message to a 17 year old, i'd have to hide all the cutlery.

lol!

KenNYC
June 12th, 2011, 05:50 PM
Sending naked pictures of yourself when you are a US Congressman, then lying about it, is not a small thing.
It kinda is. But the American hypocrisy when it comes to things sexual will always blow this out of proportion.

I'd take 10 congressmen who like to send pics of their peepees over one congressman paid by the tobacco lobby. Yet, you never see days and days of reportage over the latter one.


and if this was not illegal, it was right on the edge.
Say what? In what sane world would it be illegal for one adult to send sexual pictures to another? Not saying it is good idea, but even arguing that this should potentially be illegal is beyond absurd.


It also calls his judgement into question -- why in the world would he have thought this would not be discovered at some point?
Do you know why he thought that? Because this stuff happens all of the time, and 99 out of 100 times, nobody finds out.


Either way, I would be looking for someone else if people want the issues he supported put forth. This is bad judgement on steroids.

Well, again, I'll take my politicians with minor private faults over politicians bought and paid for any day. But I'm not American.

Fabrizio
June 12th, 2011, 06:35 PM
Do you know why he thought that? Because this stuff happens all of the time, and 99 out of 100 times, nobody finds out.

^ If a politico sends body part photos over the internet to women he does not know... and wasn't one a porn actress? It is going to be discovered. it's practically guaranteed.

lofter1
June 12th, 2011, 07:24 PM
If ya got it, flaunt it. It's the American way.

mariab
June 12th, 2011, 09:19 PM
...and he's got it all right.

Rep. Anthony Weiner finally considering he may have to resign amid sexting scandal, says source

BY Alison Gendar (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Alison%20Gendar)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, June 12th 2011, 6:26 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/06/13/alg_weiner_overexposed.jpg Andrew Burton/Getty; biggovernment.com
Anthony Weiner is reportedly now considering the possibility that he may have to step down.

WASHINGTON (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Washington%2c+DC) - As a cache of embarrassing new photos appeared Sunday, Rep. Anthony Weiner (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Anthony+Weiner) finally began considering the possibility that he may have to resign.

A source close to the congressman told the Daily News that Weiner had been adamant about keeping his seat - even as the Democratic leadership urged him to quit amid daily new revelations of reckless sexting.
But the unrelenting media coverage, the demands he step down from his party's leadership, and the appearance of more humiliating photos made Weiner realize he may not be able to bull through the crisis after all, the source said.
TMZ (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/TMZ.com+Inc.) published a new slew of squirm-inducing self-portraits, including several full-body shots taken in the House gym - some clothed, some not.
Several show Weiner showing off his naked body holding only his camera and his privates.
Another source close to Weiner said the congressman was surprised it took two weeks for the gym photos to surface.
Weiner shrugged off calls from top Democrats (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/U.S.+Democratic+Party) - including House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Nancy+Pelosi), Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Democratic+Congressional+Campaign+Committee) Chairman Steve Israel (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Steve+Israel) and Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Debbie+Wasserman+Schultz) - worrying more about what his rank and file colleagues think, a source said.
The source said one person Weiner would listen to is his mentor, Sen. Chuck Schumer (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Charles+Schumer). Schumer says he is "heartbroken" but has stopped short of telling Weiner to quit.
The other person Weiner will take advice from - his wife, Huma Abedin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Huma+Abedin) - is in Africa (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Africa) with her boss, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Hillary+Clinton).
Weiner is still convinced Abedin won't divorce him, and is still telling people she wants him to stay in Congress, sources said.
The lusty lawmaker is afraid of what Clinton, who has some experience with misbehaving husbands, may be whispering to Abedin, the source said.
The last two weeks have taken a toll on the congressman, who isn't sleeping and spends hours pacing his apartment, friends said.
He told his staff he was taking a few days off to be evaluated for mental health treatment and get some clarity.
Staffers say they expect he won't decide what to do until after his wife comes home Wednesday.
He is all-but-resigned to being redistricted out of a seat, a source said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/06/12/2011-06-12_rep_anthony_weiner_finally_considering_he_may_h ave_to_resign_amid_sexting_scanda.html

KenNYC
June 12th, 2011, 11:46 PM
^ If a politico sends body part photos over the internet to women he does not know... and wasn't one a porn actress? It is going to be discovered. it's practically guaranteed.

So, you really don't think there's tons of politicians doing this that we haven't heard about?

Maybe I'm overly cynical, but I'm very confident a large number of people in politics are doing the same, they're just more careful about picking the recipients.

stache
June 13th, 2011, 01:16 AM
Just my humble opinion but my guess is the smart ones are not doing this. I think as more young people enter the field, sexting will become an accepted practice but probably will still be a problem if marital infidelity is involved.

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 03:55 AM
So, you really don't think there's tons of politicians doing this that we haven't heard about?

Maybe I'm overly cynical, but I'm very confident a large number of people in politics are doing the same, they're just more careful about picking the recipients.

You really think that sending pictures of your penis to random women, who may or may not welcome that, is minor? You are damn right it is borderline illegal, and although it may not be technically, all you need is one who is offended, and it can be contrued as harrassment instead of a come on.

I said before this is bad judgement on steroids, but I was being polite. This is out and out stupid, or the dude has a problem. This is not overreacting about sex, this is not sex. If they guy had been cheating on his wife, that is between him and her, but if he is sending naked pictures out to women who he doesn't even know, of course people were going to find out. And Weiner is now totally ineffective as a congressman -- no one will want to co-sponsor any bills or even be seen with him.

What I find so strange is this phenomenon of "sexting" anyway. When all we had was film or poloroid pictures, which were less public, did people hand out pictures of their genitals to members of the opposite sex? No.

Fabrizio
June 13th, 2011, 05:01 AM
What I find so strange is this phenomenon of "sexting" anyway. When all we had was film or poloroid pictures, which were less public, did people hand out pictures of their genitals to members of the opposite sex? No.

^ This is very true. Somehow because it's the internet and all technological and modern, some think it's benign... but it's really much worse. Those pics are not going to go away. They are not going to fade over time or be tucked away in a drawer somewhere. They will always be there.

I kinda think a lot of celebrities, politicians, people in the public-eye have already figured that out by now. No I don't think "tons of politicians doing this". Uh....no.

This guy is just dumb.

Merry
June 13th, 2011, 07:10 AM
Although I generally agree that


...This is out and out stupid, or the dude has a problem.

I also agree with these sentiments:


...the American hypocrisy when it comes to things sexual will always blow this out of proportion.

I'd take 10 congressmen who like to send pics of their peepees over one congressman paid by the tobacco lobby...

Well, again, I'll take my politicians with minor private faults over politicians bought and paid for any day.

Would I want someone like Weiner representing me? If he's doing his job well, looking after his constituents and contributing something useful politically, then yes.

If his behaviour, whatever label you attach to it, adversely affected any of the above, then the situation needs to be remedied (and I mean an attempt made in a supportive way to help the man to help himself - let's not be so quick to judge and pass sentence) or, if that fails, he needs to go. If he's also no good at his job, then just the latter - poor judgement coupled with poor performance = bad news for everyone and a waste of taxpayers' money.

Lying about it was definitely a no-no, though. As was the case with Bill Clinton. Own up and move on, whatever the consequences.

Damn technology doesn't lend itself very well to discretion these days ;).

Don't get me wrong. I detest politics and most politicians. I would prefer good government. But the constant media saturation of situations like this, and inevitable stirring up of the already ignorant and hypocritical masses (not just in the US) just hanging out for something to get on their soapboxes about, instead of concentrating on what's actually important is just so damned counter-productive.

Ninjahedge
June 13th, 2011, 08:14 AM
This is a weird story, and more than his penis has gotten bent out of shape over it.

Do I think it is smart or appropriate?

No.

Do I think it shows a lack of political decorum and discretion (such as soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom when you yourself decry the same as "inappropriate")?

Yep.

I do not like what he did, but that does not make me feel like he is unable to do his duty (heh) as a congressman.

OTOH, him actually sending full frontals online is just plain sad. If he was single and doing a long distance relationship, that might be a bit different, but he was doing what most YOUNGER politicians do, going after as many women as possible. Alpha male.

Dems seem to do this more than Repubs, but then again, most repubs are OLDER than most dems, so.......


So, do I think he should step down? Not really. I think he is in enough hot water and should just lie low for a while. His constituents will decide if all the other stuff he did was appropriate.

ZippyTheChimp
June 13th, 2011, 08:24 AM
Do I think it shows a lack of political decorum and discretion (such as soliciting gay sex in an airport bathroom when you yourself decry the same as "inappropriate")?

YepAccuracy: To my knowledge, Weiner has never made sexual behavior a political issue. And he hasn't been charged with a crime.

Ex-senator Larry Craig was arrested in the Minneapolis airport. His congressional record showed a history of support of anti-gay legislation.

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Accuracy: To my knowledge, Weiner has never made sexual behavior a political issue. And he hasn't been charged with a crime.

Ex-senator Larry Craig was arrested in the Minneapolis airport. His congressional record showed a history of support of anti-gay legislation.

Agree. Weiner never crusaded on sexual issues, so this is not a hypocrasy issue. My position (posted earlier) also does not have to do with sex, or whatever the dude wants to do in his personal life. It is connected to poor judgement, extremely poor.

If he wants to hang around in Congress, and the people of his district want to re-elect him, they should be allowed to do it. I would just think that they should be able to find someone else that could fight for the same issues, who does not do things that are so foolish.

MidtownGuy
June 13th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Generally, my opinion about this is no "big deal" to me, a different one no doubt than that of his wife, but that is none of my business.

His constituents hired him, let them fire him.

On Chris Matthews, Erica Jong was a guest discussing this, and at one point she said "I don't believe in virtual sex." Me either.

I think "sex" means you have to be in the same room with someone else. Otherwise it's masturbation. This is not a sex scandal, it's a consensual-exchanging-of-soft-porn-scandal... from what I've seen. I don't think the nation needs to grind to a halt for that.

MidtownGuy
June 13th, 2011, 12:25 PM
Agree. Weiner never crusaded on sexual issues, so this is not a hypocrasy issue. My position (posted earlier) also does not have to do with sex, or whatever the dude wants to do in his personal life. It is connected to poor judgement, extremely poor.

If he wants to hang around in Congress, and the people of his district want to re-elect him, they should be allowed to do it. I would just think that they should be able to find someone else that could fight for the same issues, who does not do things that are so foolish.

I do agree with some of this. It was incredibly foolish and showed poor judgment.

Yet he is a progressive voice in Congress and has shown a commitment to issues and a willingness to really fight.

I wonder if sex (or simply sexual desires, in this case) is just something we can all be really foolish with sometimes, in a way that's different from the mental process around decisions you make in a congressional debate and vote.

Weiner is a fighter for progressive causes in Congress. He's shown a willingness to get up there and spit some fire on the Democratic side.

Somewhere, deep in the male psyche, wrapped up tightly with the warrior archetype is the instinctual element of sexual conquest.
In some men, it manifests itself in ways that are ultimately self-destructive or harmful to others. In this case, the urge seems to have been satisfied with relatively harmless soft porn and dirty talk with strangers on the internet. What are you gonna do? There are so many people that do that these days.

I don't think he should be forced out by colleagues because of it, but the voters will decide anyway if he doesn't want to resign. It's better that way.

As far as the argument that he will be ineffectual after this...I don't know. It could work either way. Maybe he'll be doubly determined to be a mensch and make good.

Then again, a good deal of this rests on his wife. What will she want him to do when she gets back from Africa and they sit down together? If she forgives him, other people need to as well.

MidtownGuy
June 13th, 2011, 12:38 PM
no one will want to co-sponsor any bills or even be seen with him.

An unfortunate possibility. If this is what plays out, he will soon be fired by the people.

I do think Republicans have a greater sense of team loyalty.

mariab
June 13th, 2011, 01:05 PM
Letting his own constituents reelect him or not is as it should be, without regard to the presence or absence of hypocrisy. If that wasn't an issue - which in this case it isn't - it would have been something else. Such as, now, in light of the latest batch of released pics, people are making noise about the misuse of the congressional gym. Grasping at straws, splitting hairs, whatever.

I'm neither questioning his morality nor championing his cause. I am questioning his judgement. I can't be sure that if I supported him in the past that I would again. I'd almost feel sorry for the b*stard if it wasn't for the fact that he's a married man. As far as that goes, that's something he's got to work out with Huma.

As far has the sex issue, phone sex has probably been going on since the ladies at the switchboards disappeared & politicians didn't have to worry about prying ears. It's just that now, people, especially the press, think they have the right to hear EVERY snippet of every conversation every minute of every day. No. You really don't, & it has nothing to do with transparency. I heard decades ago someone saying "The press doesn't care about the people's right to know, they only care about their right to tell you." It's about being left out that pisses everyone off. You don't think right now some politician somewhere (Please, it doesn't matter what political bent they're on) isn't having electronic sex with someone somewhere? Hell yes they are, & if they're discreet enough, there's not a damn thing we're going to do about it.

Only time will tell what will finally happen to Anthony Weiner. During or after his congressional career. But whatever happens, it's of his own creation, & not the responsibility of those who judge him.

Ninjahedge
June 13th, 2011, 02:43 PM
Accuracy: To my knowledge, Weiner has never made sexual behavior a political issue. And he hasn't been charged with a crime.

Ex-senator Larry Craig was arrested in the Minneapolis airport. His congressional record showed a history of support of anti-gay legislation.

That was kinda what I was getting at Zip. As a comparison to not only what was deemed inappropriate, but also the scale to which it can be compared AND to the fact that Leisure Suit Larry there was one that cried out against the "Gay movement" and all its "evil ways"......

stache
June 13th, 2011, 02:49 PM
As far has the sex issue, phone sex has probably been going on since the ladies at the switchboards disappeared & politicians didn't have to worry about prying ears.

Interesting side note, some of the first people to have telephones installed at home were prostitutes, and they became call girls way back when.

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 04:03 PM
What every American boy wants -- his own action figure!!

http://dailycaller.com/2011/06/12/weiner-doll-now-available-for-purchase/

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Some folks here have posted that this does not have anything to do with his affectiveness in doing his job, or in getting things done that are part of the agenda he supports. Looks like someone named "Barack" does not agree.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110613/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_weiner

DUMBRo
June 13th, 2011, 07:06 PM
It's a shame but it's really not possible to separate this cretinous behavior from the Anthony Weiner that his supporters like. A bold prima donna on the political stage is going to be just as bold satiating those carnal impulses (see: Elliott Spitzer). The mounting distraction is consuming a summer that the Democrats needed to hone their message going into the fall political season. As Junior Soprano said: "A dog you love catches rabies..."

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 07:37 PM
It's not even a question of whether Weiner is good, bad, or whatever. It is not that he can never recover from this. It is that right now, he is the guy who comes into the room, and everyone decides they suddenly have to be somewhere, anywhere, but in that room. I personally don't think he needs to resign, but if he doesn't, his colleagues in the party are going to keep putting pressure on until he does resign, or finds some other way to get the media off of this story.

stache
June 13th, 2011, 10:10 PM
The only way the media will get off this story is when the next politician gets caught in a sex trap, or maybe when the John Edwards story gets bigger.

dougm
June 13th, 2011, 10:53 PM
The only way the media will get off this story is when the next politician gets caught in a sex trap, or maybe when the John Edwards story gets bigger.

That would be a good strategy -- I wonder if Weiner has any scandals he could tip the media off to? It worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger!! He's thanking Weiner every day!!

stache
June 14th, 2011, 02:33 AM
True but Arnold is toast any way you look at it.

Ninjahedge
June 14th, 2011, 07:52 AM
Maybe the thread should be the "Weiner Para-pants?"

KenNYC
June 15th, 2011, 11:17 AM
Some folks here have posted that this does not have anything to do with his affectiveness in doing his job, or in getting things done that are part of the agenda he supports. Looks like someone named "Barack" does not agree.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110613/pl_nm/us_usa_politics_weiner


Not sure why you attribute Barack with some indisputable sense of ethics. He's a politician, approaching an election year. Of course he isn't going to stand by a man in the middle of a scandal, no matter what his actual beliefs are. Moreover, Obama has shown very clearly that he's just another politician. And what are politicians main goal? (re)election.

That would be a good strategy -- I wonder if Weiner has any scandals he could tip the media off to? It worked for Arnold Schwarzenegger!! He's thanking Weiner every day!!


I doubt that, there's nothing Weiner or anyone else can do that will ease the pressure of Arnie. Not to mention, only reason Arnie ever got elected was because of his extremely politically savvy and connected wife, who happens to no longer be around.


More than anything, what really killed Arnie was the hypocracy though. He's been on the Republican holier-than-thou wagon for a while, and that always comes back to bite you in the ass. At least Weiner never campaigned on anything that goes contrary to his "bachelor lifestyle".

BBMW
June 15th, 2011, 11:39 AM
Arnold is on hiatus. He picked the perfect time to air out his dirty laundry and get it out of the way. He'll be on the beach a year or two, and then jump back into something, by which time no one will care.


True but Arnold is toast any way you look at it.

KenNYC
June 15th, 2011, 12:37 PM
Arnold is on hiatus. He picked the perfect time to air out his dirty laundry and get it out of the way. He'll be on the beach a year or two, and then jump back into something, by which time no one will care.

I think stache was thinking about his political career. If he wants to do other, non-public things, I am sure that will work out just fine. Just as it will for Weiner, just as it did for Spitzer etc.

dougm
June 15th, 2011, 09:05 PM
Oh no, here is something new: http://beta.news.yahoo.com/porn-star-reveal-links-weiner-154157892.html

I wonder if this woman also hooked up the Tiger Woods? :rolleyes: She has Gloria Allred as her attorney. Why do these dudes get hooked up with porn stars anyway?

stache
June 15th, 2011, 09:54 PM
Fantasy?

Ninjahedge
June 16th, 2011, 08:01 AM
They see a gorgeous woman being shctupped and they want some.

They are easier to find than a random person, have "professional training", and are somehow more of a "catch" than your average sex-for-money type individual.


Further news, out of context photos of Anthony in womens undies from his High School days... I am wondering what the actual context actually WAS....

eddhead
June 16th, 2011, 09:47 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/17/nyregion/anthony-d-weiner-tells-friends-he-will-resign.html?hp=&pagewanted=print

WASHINGTON — Representative Anthony D. Weiner (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/w/anthony_d_weiner/index.html?inline=nyt-per) has told friends that he plans to resign his seat after coming under growing pressure from his Democratic colleagues to leave the House in the wake of revelations of his lewd online exchanges with women, said a person told of Mr. Weiner’s plans.

The news comes as Democratic leaders prepared to hold a meeting on Thursday to discuss whether to strip the 46-year-old Congressman of his committee assignments, a blow which would severely damage his effectiveness.

Mr. Weiner, a Democrat, came to the conclusion that he could no longer serve after having long discussions with his wife, Huma Abedin, when she returned home on Tuesday after traveling abroad with her boss, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Pressure on Mr. Weiner to leave the House has been building for days, with top House Democrats, including Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic leader, coming forward over the weekend publicly urge him to spare himself, his family and his party any more embarrassment.
But that pressure intensified earlier this week when President Obama publicly suggested that he should step down and Ms. Pelosi told reporters that she was prepared to strip Mr. Weiner of his committee assignments if he did not leave.

At the same time, the House ethics committee had formally opened an inquiry into Mr. Weiner’s conduct, including trading private messages with a teenage girl in Delaware. The investigation raised the prospect that he would face formal charges and sanctions, including expulsion. But with his decision to resign, the investigation is expected to end, since the committee has jurisdiction only over the actions of members of Congress.

Ninjahedge
June 16th, 2011, 10:53 AM
including trading private messages with a teenage girl in Delaware

The slander house is in full effect.


"Weiner sends nude pics across net"

"Weiner messages underage girl"

The two do not have anything to do with each other, but the inference is made.

stache
June 16th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Where there's smoke...

GordonGecko
June 16th, 2011, 11:50 AM
Weiner's mistakes were, in this order:

1) Sexting & sending pictures online (what moron wouldn't know it would get out, especially with sending a face pic!!)
2) Lying about it for days when confronted
3) Not giving the press everything when he did fess up

He could have survived #1, he would have survived #2, but #3 really killed him. Every day a new woman is in the paper with more details about this and that. He should have listed every single person he chatted with from the getgo and revealed every last pervy thing he could have said. The slow leak of info is ultimately what forced his hand

Ninjahedge
June 16th, 2011, 12:04 PM
Where there's smoke...

There's weiners?


Seriously though, GG, I don't believe he ever came out 100% against what people were saying. That was one thing that was brought up on the Daily Show.

When confronted, he just kept saying "I can't say" etc etc....


I am not sure if he lied about the Schwingeer pic in particular....


And right now, the only reason these women are giving is because they can get $$ or recognition for being the info giver. Kind of sad. I know what he did, and if all we get now are more embarassing pics it really does not change anything.


Maybe he can run as a Born Again Republican in 8 years.....

eddhead
June 16th, 2011, 12:41 PM
Technically, he may not have lied, but he was not exactly forthcoming either. Truth be told, I am not all that offended by what he did (exception being the interaction with the 17 year old) assuming he was not harrassing the female recepients of his various messages. That is a big assumption, but I mean I don't think any of it is illegal. Still, you have to question his judgement.

Too bad, hew was one of my favorites. A rere fiesty liberal dem

MidtownGuy
June 16th, 2011, 01:56 PM
I agree.

KenNYC
June 16th, 2011, 02:51 PM
What do you mean he didn't lie?

He said he was hacked, he wasn't.
He said he didn't send the pictures, he did.
He said he wasn't sure if the penis-boxer picture was him; he knew. There isn't a man on this planet who doesn't recognize his own penis.

Ninjahedge
June 16th, 2011, 03:09 PM
Please provide the quotes.

As your own paraphrase (at least on the third item) shows, he hedged at a lot of the questions.

As soon as he said "he was not sure" I knew it was him.

KenNYC
June 16th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Only in America does one not lie if one "hedges" the answers.

So because he said that he cannot with certitude say that the picture is him, he didn't lie?

Really? You couldn't recognize your own penis, in a picture you took, and you know you sent, with certitude?

C'mon now. I can, with certitude, recognize every single picture of my penis ever taken. And so can he.

mariab
June 16th, 2011, 04:33 PM
Congressman Weiner resigns'I make this apology to my neighbors ... but I make it particularly to my wife, Huma'

Video: Watch Weiner's full resignation announcement (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/#slice-1)(on this page) complete with the passive-aggressives cheering in the background


C'mon now. I can, with certitude, recognize every single picture of my penis ever taken. And so can he. Better make sure they don't fall into the wrong hands! Pardon the pun.

eddhead
June 16th, 2011, 04:39 PM
^ that is why i wrote 'technically' and that he was not forthcoming. But let's say he did lie. I am still not put-off by it unless the recipients of messages were harassed.

mariab
June 16th, 2011, 04:59 PM
The Dems came down hard on him & forced him to resign because they didn't want their party to look like the (gasp!)Republicans. They were, in so many words, saying: "We want to be the pure party for which we are so famous. A beacon of morality in a cesspool of immoral hypocrites, so we can't have this heathen here mucking up the works." That's the way I see it anyway.

I'm not defending what he did. I'm not even defending all of his politics. But what's with the double standard with no defined outlines? E.g., Wrengel's found guilty on 11 of 12 counts by the House Ethics Committee, & he's only censured? Why? The charges against Wrengel were far more egregious than those against Weiner. No, it doesn't clean Weiner's slate, but making him resign? From what I've seen so far, their logic is twisted.

lofter1
June 16th, 2011, 10:14 PM
The difference is photos. Show me a photo of any of the other guys doing their deeds and they're toast, too.

Photos of Gary Hart with what's her name are what did him in.

stache
June 16th, 2011, 10:36 PM
;)13347

lofter1
June 16th, 2011, 10:48 PM
The shot that did him in ...

13348

lofter1
June 16th, 2011, 10:50 PM
Donna Rice Hughes is now a born again Christian and an advocate for internet safety for kids (http://www.protectkids.com/donnaricehughes/bio.htm):



Hughes, President and CEO of Enough Is Enough (EIE), is an author and speaker on Internet safety.

GordonGecko
June 16th, 2011, 10:52 PM
I must be the only person left who doesn't care about Weiner. Talk about a hyped up story, the guy made some serious mistakes and wasn't able to mitigate the damage. So long and don't let the door hit you on the way out, lets move on to actual issues facing the country

Ninjahedge
June 17th, 2011, 08:46 AM
But but but... this is something a majority of men in the US would probably love to be ABLE to do in their OWN lives but do not have the cajones (literally) to do it, or the women (incl. a porn star) that would ever accept it.

The thing that gets me about many rules of conduct and morality are that they have this niggling little bit that seems to indicate that they should not be done mainly because not everyone can do it. This may not be the entire reason for their being, but you can't tell me that there are few men that would NOT like to have Ginger Lyn (I think that was her "name") sending them E-mail/Tweets and not running away screaming at the sight of your nads.


The Dems here are just trying to make sure they do not scare away teh narrow margin of moralists from the polls before their election. They weally do not care too much about the issue itself, they care more about what it will do to them. Odd bit of morality there.

dougm
June 17th, 2011, 09:27 PM
But but but... this is something a majority of men in the US would probably love to be ABLE to do in their OWN lives but do not have the cajones (literally) to do it, or the women (incl. a porn star) that would ever accept it.

The thing that gets me about many rules of conduct and morality are that they have this niggling little bit that seems to indicate that they should not be done mainly because not everyone can do it. This may not be the entire reason for their being, but you can't tell me that there are few men that would NOT like to have Ginger Lyn (I think that was her "name") sending them E-mail/Tweets and not running away screaming at the sight of your nads.


The Dems here are just trying to make sure they do not scare away teh narrow margin of moralists from the polls before their election. They weally do not care too much about the issue itself, they care more about what it will do to them. Odd bit of morality there.

Although I don't much care what Weiner did in his spare time, I have to disagree with you. What I see here is incredibly poor judgement, and the idea that other men would get a charge out of sending weinie picks to a porn star has little to do with that. Most men would not do it, and that is not because they want to or don't want to, it is because said porn star can easily blackmail them or send the emails to their employer, the press, etc.

This is a guy who had a good chance to be the next Mayor of NYC, and he sends out pictures to women he doesn't even know (except online)? This is not taking a chance, this is almost a guarantee that one of these will be revealed, and if he did not know that, he should have.

I think he needs to go away for awhile, then he can come back -- I don't think Americans will punish him forever. I am also annoyed at the hypocrites in the congress and media who said he had to resign so they could stop talking about the story. It was interesting for about one day, but they had to give it wall to wall coverage.

stache
June 18th, 2011, 12:30 AM
In this day and age I think it would be difficult to blackmail someone in the private sector for posting their own genital images online, if the photos were made and sent during off working hours. Obvious exceptions would be someone working for a charity such as the boy scouts or a rape crisis center.

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2011, 08:09 AM
Dougm.... I was not saying that this was an outright desire that most men would actually perform, but the one thing I have noticed is that USUALLY the loudest protests come from those that desire it themselves the most.

That somehow yelling very loud against it balances or forgives your own desires for it.

There are several "moral" issues that run in the same vein.

Now, am I saying that what he did was not incredibly stupid and more than a bit disconnected? Nope. Just that, when compared to the acts that many have done, on both sides of the aisle, this is nothing.

Call me back about his bastard kids, his affairs, or his relations with an underage minor (I mean ADULT relations, not pen-pals...) and maybe we can have something.

This was just a joke on all sides....

eddhead
June 20th, 2011, 12:03 PM
umm ... has he broken any laws? Who really cares what he chose to do in his own time with other consenting adults (assuming they ARE consenting and adults). That is between him and his wife, and really of no one else's concern

It is amazing what we get hung up on. For years, Charlie Rangle got away with playiing fast and loose with the New York City Rent control laws. Where is the outrage? I mean really, which is more harmful to the public good?

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2011, 12:58 PM
It is amazing what we get hung up on. For years, Charlie Rangle got away with playiing fast and loose with the New York City Rent control laws. Where is the outrage? I mean really, which is more harmful to the public good?

>Ding!<

One point.

dougm
June 27th, 2011, 12:55 AM
Dougm.... I was not saying that this was an outright desire that most men would actually perform, but the one thing I have noticed is that USUALLY the loudest protests come from those that desire it themselves the most.

That somehow yelling very loud against it balances or forgives your own desires for it.

There are several "moral" issues that run in the same vein.

Now, am I saying that what he did was not incredibly stupid and more than a bit disconnected? Nope. Just that, when compared to the acts that many have done, on both sides of the aisle, this is nothing.

Call me back about his bastard kids, his affairs, or his relations with an underage minor (I mean ADULT relations, not pen-pals...) and maybe we can have something.

This was just a joke on all sides....

Ninja -- I pretty much agree with all of what you wrote. I just thought that people who were treating this like he got caught with a Playboy mag under his mattress were misunderstanding the level of foolishness he was engaged in. This is a dude who had very high level aspirations for his career, and he pretty much destroyed that, either on purpose in some way (not a psycologist!!), or if not, he was not too bright not understanding this would come out. From what I have seen of him, agree or disagree with his politics, but he was not dumb, so there was something amiss here.

Your comments remind me of the Clinton impeachment hearings, where the GOP congressman who was screaming about Clinton the loudest turned out to have been a serial affair-man. Forgot the guys name, but these people just have to get over themselves. There must be something about being a congress person that makes you forget what real life is actually like.

Ninjahedge
June 27th, 2011, 08:11 AM
Some feel that by persecuting another for their own crimes that they will be forgiven (or somehow overlooked).

It just looks to me like a bunch of people that never understood just what a glass house was.....

GordonGecko
June 27th, 2011, 12:09 PM
Every time I see this paradox thread I immediately think of how the sausages come in packs of 7 and the buns come in packs of 8.

Ninjahedge
June 27th, 2011, 12:47 PM
Weiners come in 10's........



I just sayin'....

GordonGecko
June 27th, 2011, 02:39 PM
Depends on the weiner company, Hebrew National comes in 7's, others come in 10's, few come in 8's. Therin lies the paradox ;)

ZippyTheChimp
June 27th, 2011, 07:43 PM
Reasons:

1. Meatpackers like to deal in pounds. Ten hot dogs to the pound. Bakers like to deal in dozens, or parts of dozens.

2. Meatpackers, bakers, and consumers are stupid.

3. It's a conspiracy by the meatpackers and bakers to keep us endlessly buying meat or bread to make up for leftovers. To solve this, get a dog, and toss him a couple right off the grill. Dogs hate bread.

scumonkey
June 27th, 2011, 09:33 PM
Dogs hate bread.
you must not have a dog...mine gobbles it up ;)

Ninjahedge
June 28th, 2011, 09:45 AM
I know, Black Bear started their own sausages/wurst packagin that are 6 or 7 too....


But the convention was 10 to start, so even packs of foot-longs are still kept in 10's even though they are no longer a pound.....

Stupid stupid stupid.

GordonGecko
June 28th, 2011, 10:33 AM
Stupid stupid stupid.
http://img.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/anthony_weiner-300x300__oPt.jpg

ZippyTheChimp
June 28th, 2011, 10:44 AM
Let's see, Weiner isn't an attorney. He really has no career skills, but needs to earn a living.

If he teamed up with Spitzer in a TV show, it would have the best ever title for a show hosted by two politicians forced out of office for sexual peccadilloes.

Ninjahedge
June 28th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Bosom Buddies?

ZippyTheChimp
June 28th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Weiner & Spitzer

Ninjahedge
June 28th, 2011, 01:21 PM
I hear Charlie Sheen is looking for work......

lofter1
June 28th, 2011, 01:52 PM
There were rumors yesterday, now denied (http://www.hotmommagossip.com/2011/06/28/rumors-of-new-charlie-sheen-show-denied/), that Charlie got himself a job ...

Ninjahedge
June 28th, 2011, 02:02 PM
What kind of "job" would you be referring to Loft? ;)

dougm
July 6th, 2011, 09:39 PM
Weiner & Spitzer

How about SpitzerWeiner ?

ZippyTheChimp
July 7th, 2011, 12:07 PM
So CNN cancels Eliot Spitzer.

Are they making room for a Weiner?

dougm
July 9th, 2011, 04:59 PM
Here is a new job Weiner can get! Who would be more qualified?

http://mybirdie.ca/files/053876ec195de708070ae5472102bb65-7889.php

scumonkey
September 14th, 2011, 12:16 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/republican-bob-turner-wins-new-york-special-election/2011/09/13/gIQAPL72QK_blog.html
Republican Bob Turner wins New York special election
Posted by Rachel Weiner (http://www.washingtonpost.com/rachel-weiner/2011/03/08/ABDMyKP_page.html) at 11:58 PM ET, 09/13/2011


Businessman Bob Turner (R) defeated state Assemblyman David Weprin (D) in the special election for the House seat held by former New York Rep. Anthony Weiner (D).
Turner’s victory is regarded as an upset given the Democratic history of the 9th district, which takes in portions of Brooklyn and Queens, as well as the fact that President Obama carried the seat by 11 points in 2008.
Weprin has yet to concede, but the Associated Press has called the race for Turner.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2011/09/13/National-Politics/Images/NY_Special_Election_034c1-3925.jpg?uuid=O_hSRt3NEeCEdSrrIfoXWw
Republican Bob Turner won a New York seat that Democrats expected to hold. (Mary Altaffer - AP)

Although the district may well be eliminated by Empire State line-drawers tasked with cutting down New York’s congressional delegation by two seat before 2012, the result will buoy Republicans hopes heading into 2012 and spur anxiety among Democrats.

The seat, which was vacated by Weiner earlier this year following relevations of his involvement in a series of online liaisons with women who were’t his wife, was initially considered safe for Democrats.

While it’s conservative by New York City standards, Democrats still have a 3-to-1 registration advantage here.

Republicans sought to turn the race into a referendum on President Obama, tying Weprin to the surprisingly unpopular commander-in-chief at every turn. (Obama’s approval rating was at 43 percent in the district, according to a survey conducted by Siena Research Institute (http://www.siena.edu/uploadedfiles/home/Parents_and_Community/Community_Page/SRI/SNY_Poll/9th%20CD%202011%20Special%20Poll%20Release%202%20--%20FINAL.pdf)).

Obama’s position on Israel became, fairly or not, an effective wedge against Weprin. The Democratic candidate tried to distance himself from Obama’s assertion that Israel should return to its pre-1967 borders (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-19/politics/obama.israel.palestinians_1_israel-palestinian-conflict-borders-settlements?_s=PM:POLITICS)but Turner effectively linked that position, deeply unpopular in the district’s Jewish community, to his Democratic rival.

Former New York City Mayor Ed Koch, a Democrat, endorsed Turner and explained that a victory by the Republican would be the best way for Democrats to send a message to the President.

“New Yorkers put Washington Democrats on notice that voters are losing confidence in a President whose policies assault job-creators and affront Israel,” said National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Pete Sessions (R-Texas) in a statement after Weprin’s win.

In the run-up to Tuesday’s vote, Democratic party leaders were doing everything they could to de-couple those vote from any sort of national trend.

As evidence they cited the fact that Democratic performance in the district has been eroding for years. In the 2000 presidential election, Al Gore got 67 percent of the vote; Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) got only 56 percent in 2004, and Barack Obama 55 percent in 2008.

Moreover, Democratic strategists noted that they had a fairly weak candidate (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/why-the-new-york-special-election-is-close/2011/09/06/gIQAIb2o9J_blog.html) in Weprin, whose campaign was plagued by gaffes. He was chosen by party leaders largely because he promised not to challenge another incumbent in 2012, should his seat be eliminated in redistricting.

With the state slated to lose two seats due to growth over the last decade that lagged the national average, the 9th is considered ripe territory to be eliminated although no formal redistricting discussions have taken place.

As we’ve written, special elections are notoriously unreliable (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/special-elections-reveal-a-fickle-electorate/2011/09/12/gIQAFbHNNK_blog.html) as predictors of future results. But for now, Democrats have reason to be spooked.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 01:15 AM
Or as reported on the web:

REVENGE OF THE JEWS; DEM SEAT TURNS IN NYC (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republican-wins-democratic-new-york-house-seat/2011/09/13/gIQAoos5QK_print.html)

eddhead
September 14th, 2011, 06:46 AM
Bad omen for Obama.

Ninjahedge
September 14th, 2011, 08:34 AM
You know what, let the entire nation be run by Repubs for 2 years.

I am tired of this finger pointing bullsh!t. It is akin to idiots chorusing on "Global warming, eh?" in the middle of a cold snap in winter (you do not hear them taking it back after the record of consecutive days above 100 in Texas, now do you?).

Maybe we need a predominantly Republican EVERYTHING to show that they do not wield magical powers that can make money grow on trees and solve our debt problems.

The only thing I truly worry about is that neither house has a great record on reversing the taps the previous administrations have installed. The "Temporary" tax break being a great recent example.... Repubs might dismally fail at their proposed public goal, but not before getting a few sweet deals into the legislature crippling our rights further or granting less regulation and more sway to the corporations of America (like treating a corporation like a citizen?)

Feh.

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 09:21 AM
^
They're still only one house of Congress. One of the big failures of the Dems is their inability to figure out how to stand up the to the Republicans. The Republicans have just be more effective.

The main reason Obama should lose in '012 is that, even if you ignore idiology, he just doesn't have the balls to be President.

stache
September 14th, 2011, 10:26 AM
Repubs might dismally fail at their proposed public goal, but not before getting a few sweet deals into the legislature crippling our rights further or granting less regulation and more sway to the corporations of America (like treating a corporation like a citizen?)


This goes WAY back.
From Wikipedia:

By the beginning of the 19th century, government policy on both sides of the Atlantic began to change, reflecting the growing popularity of the proposition that corporations were riding the economic wave of the future. In 1819, the U.S. Supreme Court granted corporations a plethora of rights they had not previously recognized or enjoyed.[13] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#cite_note-12) Corporate charters were deemed "inviolable", and not subject to arbitrary amendment or abolition by state governments.[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#cite_note-13) The Corporation as a whole was labeled an "artificial person," possessing both individuality and immortality.

************************************************** *****************************************

Maybe we can blame this on the Whigs?] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation#cite_note-14)

ZippyTheChimp
September 14th, 2011, 10:38 AM
(like treating a corporation like a citizen?)The problem is that, while corporations were granted quasi-citizen status, they were never held to the responsibility of acting like citizens.

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 10:44 AM
^
In what way?

ZippyTheChimp
September 14th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Corporations benefit from the stability of their country. From a population that's content and not prone to social and political unrest. By threat from foreign aggression by sending its citizens to fight and die in wars.

In that light, taking jobs overseas could be considered treasonable.

dougm
September 14th, 2011, 11:08 AM
What is the New York perspective on this election result? The media likes to say these things reflect the same things people are talking about nationally, and they are often wrong, but in this case, it appears to be clearly a reflection of dissatisfaction with Obama and his policies. I say that given a Republican, and one that did not pretend not to be, winning in a Democratic leaning district.

I just saw someone on TV speculate that sometimes when people (Dems in this case) are angry with their own party, they are willing to vote for someone from the other party to send a message. I am not sure about that one, but of course, each person has their own reasons.

Sometimes it is just that the losing candidate was not a very good candidate, and the media misses this point.

Any thoughts?

Ninjahedge
September 14th, 2011, 12:04 PM
The main reason Obama should lose in '012 is that, even if you ignore idiology, he just doesn't have the balls to be President.

And we all know it is more important to have balls than brains.

We all know how well testosterone works in figuring out solutions to complex problems. Maybe our next president should be a cage fighter.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 12:06 PM
The core of this election is in regard to the perceived future situation in Israel.

This particular Election District is going to be gerrymandered before the next election. No doubt the Dems, who control that process, will draw the District lines to assure a split in that Israel Above All Else bloc.

I wonder what Anthony Weiner tweeted today? Seems only insiders can know. But AW might want to update his Twitter profile (http://twitter.com/#!/anthonyweiner).

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 12:06 PM
That shouldn't be all a President brings to the tables. But, as we're witnessing, his lack thereof is not doing him any good.


And we all know it is more important to have balls than brains.

We all know how well testosterone works in figuring out solutions to complex problems. Maybe our next president should be a cage fighter.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 12:08 PM
And especially since those big Texan Neo-Con balls really did the job in taking down OBL.

Sometimes just spewing your stuff, as the prior team did so boastfully, doesn't do what's needed, but simply results in death, destruction and despair.

Perhaps the more discrete Obama Doctrine should be used in the House.

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 12:09 PM
IIRC, this will be controlled by the state legislature. With a Republican now controlling that seat, the State Senate might feel the need to protect it. Then again, who knows if Turner can defend it in '012

And as a bigger issue, if this is an indication that they've lost the Jewish vote (and Jewish monitary support), this is a bad omen for the Democrats.


The core of this election is in regard to the perceived future situation in Israel.

This particular Election District is going to be gerrymandered before the next election. No doubt the Dems, who control that process, will draw the District lines to assure a split in that Israel Above All Else bloc.

I wonder what Anthony Weiner tweeted today? Seems only insiders can know. But AW might want to update his Twitter profile (http://twitter.com/#!/anthonyweiner).

Ninjahedge
September 14th, 2011, 12:17 PM
Nope.

Most of the US "conservative" areas are antisemitic. (As well as sexist and racist, to varying degrees). IN NYC, the Jewish "community" has spoken out about its feelings involving Israel. They know a republican here is not like a republican in Kansas, although it is a shame they seem to put foreign affairs above domestic policy in their representory votes.

Will this mean Obama will not carry NY? Nope. Will it be used by the GOP to try and say that this is evidence of a country-wide dissatisfaction of Obama and his stance on things like Debt and Health Care? Yep (even though, as said before, this is more an Israel thing than a national policy issue....).

What....evah.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 12:19 PM
When the Jewish voters here and elsewhere understand that the Tea Partiers don't give a damn about Israel except as the site of the Resurrection then maybe they'll see things from a better perspective. Especially when they look at what the TP gang believes about non-believers. No doubt Conversions will go over really big as a campaign issue.

Besides, current residents of Israel seem to be a few steps ahead of their brethren on this side of the Atlantic in terms of what the future of Israel should hold.

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 12:22 PM
The point is that this is a VERY Democratic district. If they're getting dinged here, nowhere is safe for them. Yes, Obama will carry NY. But the dems did the two time Bush won also. But will he carry the swing states?


Nope.

Most of the US "conservative" areas are antisemitic. (As well as sexist and racist, to varying degrees). IN NYC, the Jewish "community" has spoken out about its feelings involving Israel. They know a republican here is not like a republican in Kansas, although it is a shame they seem to put foreign affairs above domestic policy in their representory votes.

Will this mean Obama will not carry NY? Nope. Will it be used by the GOP to try and say that this is evidence of a country-wide dissatisfaction of Obama and his stance on things like Debt and Health Care? Yep (even though, as said before, this is more an Israel thing than a national policy issue....).

What....evah.

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 12:25 PM
You might be a little surprised. There's a lot of appreciation of Israel in the conservative community. This has has the effect of ameliorating some of old school right wing antisemitism.


When the Jewish voters here and elsewhere understand that the Tea Partiers don't give a damn about Israel except as the site of the Resurrection then maybe they'll see things from a better perspective. Especially when they look at what the TP gang believes about non-believers. No doubt Conversions will go over really big as a campaign issue.

Besides, current residents of Israel seem to be a few steps ahead of their brethren on this side of the Atlantic in terms of what the future of Israel should hold.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 12:31 PM
Take a look at the new "conservative" community as embodied by the TP gang.

Self serving "appreciation of Israel" at best.

scumonkey
September 14th, 2011, 01:04 PM
lets not forget:

Although the district may well be eliminated by Empire State line-drawers tasked with cutting down New York’s congressional delegation by two seat before 2012...
so in the end does it really matter?

BBMW
September 14th, 2011, 01:18 PM
^
From the standpoint of legislative action in the house? No. As a bellweather of the 2012? Yes.

But here's and interesting side effect of this. NYS is losing two seats in Congress. From what I understood, it was agreed that the Dems would give up one of there, and so would the Republicans.

Now one would think that given the normal politics of this district that Turner would be a one and done term congressman, and this would go back to being a reliably democratic seat. But for now, it's a Republcian seat.

The Republicans can now "give up" this seat to redistricting. Protecting their reliable ones, where the Democrats will have to likely give up a one of their "real" seats.

lofter1
September 14th, 2011, 02:16 PM
Fundamentalism In NY-9 (http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/jewish-christianism-in-new-york.html)

The Daily Dish (http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2011/09/jewish-christianism-in-new-york.html)
September14 2011

Robbie George celebrates (http://mirrorofjustice.blogs.com/mirrorofjustice/2011/09/the-rabbonim-speak-in-new-york-9.html) its role in the special election (http://www.cityhallnews.com/2011/09/anti-gay-marriage-forces-converge-on-ny-9/):

In the run up to the election, a group of Orthodox rabbis, most from Brooklyn, but including others, notably Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky and Rabbi Simcha Bunim Cohen, two nationally prominent Orthodox Jewish authorities, published a letter stating that "it is forbidden to fund, support, or vote for David Weprin." The reason? As a member of the New York state legislature, Weprin, despite his Orthodox Jewish beliefs, voted to redefine marriage to include same-sex partnerships. This, the rabbonim declared, was chillul Hashem---a desecration, or bringing of shame, on God's name. The rabbis went on to say that "Weprin's claim that he is Orthodox makes the chillul Hashem even greater"...The letter from the rabbonim went farther than anything I recall Catholic bishops saying.



Naturally, K-Lo (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277168/congratulations-and-thanks-too-kathryn-jean-lopez) and Maggie Gallagher (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/277183/congrats-marriage-maggie-gallagher) chime in. I'm sure some generic national factors - the economy primarily - played a role in the Democratic disaster here. But it may not be too wise to extrapolate too much from a population dominated by older, more paranoid Jewish voters and hardcore Orthodox homophobes.

Ninjahedge
September 14th, 2011, 02:40 PM
The point is that this is a VERY Democratic district. If they're getting dinged here, nowhere is safe for them. Yes, Obama will carry NY. But the dems did the two time Bush won also. But will he carry the swing states?

The opinion of a few districts in NY, involving issues that are not of national concern, does NOT reflect the attitude of the nation.

Again, the GOP will try to relate them, but they do not apply here.

Ninjahedge
September 14th, 2011, 02:46 PM
Loft: We all know how much religion should play a role in our governance.

:mad:

scumonkey
September 14th, 2011, 02:51 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20106163-503544.html
September 14, 2011 1:35 PM
New York special election: How Bob Turner won
By Anthony Salvanto (http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-503544_162-503544.html?contributor=45614) Topics Congress (http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-503544_162-503544.html?categoryId=10378) ,Campaign 2012 (http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-503544_162-503544.html?categoryId=10457891)
.
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2011/09/13/bob_turner_124843718_244x183.jpg
Republican Bob Turner speaks with the media at a polling station on September 13, 2011, in New York City.
(Credit: Spencer Platt/Getty Images)

Because far fewer people vote in special elections (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20106028-503544.html?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel), they're always at least partly about turnout. Although without exit polls we cannot say precisely who voted or for whom, the Republicans took advantage of a strong environment for them while an early look suggests plenty of Democrats' regular voters seem to have stayed home, as Weprin failed to take advantage of a substantial numerical registration edge.

In terms of turnout and the Democratic base, consider: Around 60,000 votes were cast in NY-9 last night, or just over half those cast in the 2010 general, or only about 30 percent the figure in a presidential year (Tallies are still coming in as this is written.) But Democrats have a registration edge of 3 to 1 in NY-9 and there are 180,000 registered Democrats. Weprin only got just under 28,000 votes thus far. (There are 60,000 registered Republicans. Turner got just over 32,000 votes.)

Bob Turner did what he had to do, winning handily in the more conservative Brooklyn portion of this district (by about 2 to 1) and ran almost even with Weprin in Queens - while Weprin really needed bigger turnout and support in the larger Queens portion to have been competitive.

It's not a perfect comparison, but contrast last night to NY-26, the upstate district where Democrat Kathy Hochul won a special election in Republican territory in May. In that district Republicans have an edge in registration. 102,000 total votes were cast, or about 40 percent of the 2008 general - a pretty substantial turnout. There are 140,000 registered Democrats there and the Democrat managed 43,000 votes. Meanwhile in California's 36th, where Democrats also won a special election this year to hang on to a Democratic leaning seat in a tough race, 76,000 votes were cast, also 30 percent of the general election, but Janice Hahn got 41,000 votes in a district with 150,000 registered Democrats and a almost 2 to 1 registration edge.

The Republicans' opening here, which they made work to their advantage, started with having a district with a higher conservative composition than other nearby NYC districts. Obama carried 55% here - solid, to be sure, but compare that to about 90 percent in nearby House districts. Although local issues matter - they usually do in special district elections - the national environment as measured in the pre-election polls was clearly unfavorable to an incumbent party, and Turner sought to make national themes part this campaign. In a Siena Poll (http://www.siena.edu/sri)of likely voters just before election day, three-quarters said the country was on the wrong track. Most had an unfavorable opinion of President Obama (including three in ten Democrats.)

So with this the GOP evens the score in this year's New York special elections this year. Interestingly in both this and NY26 some of the nationally-oriented themes were much the same, with Democrats' message toward the end of each saying that they'd protect Medicare and Social Security. As for what special elections forecast for national trends...

It's pretty inconsistent, at best. Aside from the other two contests mentioned, you'll recall that in early 2010 Democrats won a special election in Pennsylvania (PA12) that many thought tested a winning formula for them in November 2010...