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TREPYE
July 20th, 2012, 05:12 PM
July 20, 2012
12 Killed in Shooting at Colorado Theater
By DAN FROSCH, WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM, TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT
AURORA, Colo. — A gunman dressed head to foot in body armor and brandishing three weapons, including an assault rifle, opened fire in a theater crowded with families and children at a midnight showing of the Batman movie “The Dark Knight Rises” in a Denver suburb early Friday morning, killing at least 12 people and wounding 59 others, police and federal officials said.

The suspect, James Holmes, 24, told the police after his arrest that he had booby-trapped his Aurora apartment with explosive devices, leading the police to evacuate five buildings in the neighborhood as they sought to disable what they described as “incendiary devices” rigged to trip wires.

Mr. Holmes’s only criminal history was a traffic summons, said Aurora’s police chief, Dan Oates. Mr. Holmes earned a bachelor’s degree with honors in neuroscience in 2010 from the University of California, Riverside.

During the attack, witnesses said Mr. Holmes had entered through a side door of the packed theater and first set off at least two smoke devices before firing randomly at audience members, who had just settled into their seats. Within minutes, he was arrested in a parking lot behind the theater near his car, the police said.

Mr. Holmes had apparently planned the attack for some time: He wore a gas mask, body armor, a tactical helmet and was dressed completely in black. He entered the theater with an AR-15 assault rifle, a Remington 12-guage shotgun and a 40-caliber Glock handgun. A fourth gun, another Glock pistol, was found in his car. The authorities believe that Mr. Holmes acted alone, and that the death toll may increase because some of the injuries were serious.

The police and witnesses described a scene of utter chaos inside the darkened, smoke-filled theater as bullets resounded loudly around them, and people who had gone to see a PG-13-rated action movie were suddenly forced to scramble to safety as friends and loved ones were felled around them.

Chief Oates said he did not know how many shots Mr. Holmes had fired, saying only that it was “many, many rounds.”

Jordan Crofter, 19, said he had felt lucky to have snagged a seat in the front row at the midnight screening. But about five minutes into the movie, he said, a side door swung open and a man in black wearing a gas mask calmly strode through.

At first, Mr. Crofter thought perhaps the man was part of the movie. But within a few seconds, he said, the man hurled two gas canisters down the theater aisle.

“He walked in so casually, like he knew what he was doing,” said Mr. Crofter. “I heard two pops. Everyone was distracted. That was when the panic and the chaos started.”

Mr. Crofter said that once he noticed that the man was also carrying a rifle, he ran in the opposite direction as fast as he could.

“He started shooting, and everyone ducked and started screaming,” he said. “He looked like he was ready to go into battle, It was like he was walking around and having fun. Emotionless.”

With the investigation in its earliest stages, the authorities said they were unsure what prompted the attack, or whether Mr. Holmes had ties to any hate groups.

“No motivation yet,” one senior law enforcement official said, adding, “The kid’s not talking.”Mr. Holmes however, did tell the police that he had explosives at an Aurora residence, which led F.B.I. agents, along with agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the local police to cordon off a north Aurora neighborhood, focusing attention on a third-floor apartment in a red brick building.

Firefighters perched on a cherry picker were seen breaking the window with an ax.

The police described the apartment as being full of wires.

“It’s something I’ve never seen before,” said Chief Oates.

John Priest, who lives in the neighborhood, said that his 21-year-old son had been in the movie theater with two friends during the shooting, but was unharmed. The two friends, however, had been wounded — one was hit by a bullet in the buttocks and grazed in the leg, and the other was shot in the leg. Neither injury is life threatening, he said.

“How could people do something like this?” he said. “I don’t understand this.”

Aurora, which has a population of about 325,000, had only six killings in all of 2011, according to F.B.I. crime data.

At Gateway High School, where the authorities have directed people to gather to get news about friends and family members, Rosemary Ratcliff said she had so far been unable to find her son, Abdullah, 17, who she believes had been at the midnight screening.

“I haven’t heard from him, and none of his friends are picking up their phones,” she said in a near-whisper as she left the school.

The authorities have not released the names of victims, but Pentagon officials said that some members of the military were among the casualties. The officials said they did not yet have an accurate count, or know what branches of the service the victims were from, or whether they were dead or injured.

The injured were sent to six hospitals in the region, including Children’s Hospital Colorado and the University of Colorado Hospital.

“The entire emergency department staff was called in,” said Dr. Comilla Sasson, who said that even though the emergency room was full before the shooting happened, it admitted 20 victims who ranged in age from 3 months to 45 years. The victims’ injuries included gunshot wounds and shrapnel injuries, Dr. Sasson said. Nine people were in critical condition.

At least three other people were in critical condition at other hospitals, officials said.

The shooting erupted at the Century 16 Theater during the first showings of “The Dark Knight Rises.” Throngs had gathered, some dressed as characters from the highly anticipated Batman sequel.

The police and witnesses said after the gunman entered the theater through an exit door that there was the smell of either pepper spray or tear gas in the theater as gunshots rang out.

Chief Oates said the device made “a hissing sound” before starting to emit smoke.

President Obama, in southern Florida as part of a campaign swing, was notified of the shooting by his top counterterrorism adviser, John O. Brennan, at 5:26 a.m., the White House said. He later released a statement saying that he and his wife, Michelle, were “shocked and saddened by the horrific and tragic shooting in Colorado,” and vowed to bring those responsible to justice.

Mr. Obama was briefed Friday morning by Mr. Brennan, Robert S. Mueller III, the F.B.I. director, and Jacob Lew, the White House chief of staff. “We do not believe at this point there was an apparent nexus to terrorism,” Jay Carney, the White House press secretary, told reporters on Air Force One.

Mr. Obama returned to Washington on Friday afternoon, cutting short his Florida trip, his campaign said.

In remarks in Fort Myers, Fla., Mr. Obama talked in highly personal ways about the tragedy. “My daughters go to the movies,” he said. “What if Malia and Sasha had been in the theater as so many of our kids do every day? Michelle and I will be fortunate enough to hug our girls a little tighter tonight.”

He reflected on the fragility of life and the triviality of so much of what passes for daily existence, calling on the country to remember what really matters. “The people we lost in Aurora loved and were loved,” he said. “They were mothers and fathers, they were husbands and wives, sisters and brothers, sons and daughters, friends and neighbors. They had hopes for the future and they had dreams that were not yet fulfilled.”

He asked for a moment of silence and asked the crowd to “spend a little time thinking about the incredible blessings that God has given us.”

Both Mr. Obama and Mitt Romney, the presumed Republican presidential nominee, said they planned to pull television campaign advertisements in Colorado.

The movie studio Warner Bros., which is owned by Time Warner, released a statement Friday morning, saying that the company and the filmmakers were “deeply saddened” and “extend our sincere sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims at this tragic time.”

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg of New York, who has waged a national campaign for stricter gun laws, called on President Obama and Mr. Romney to more concretely address the issue of gun violence in their campaigns.

“You know, soothing words are nice,” Mr. Bloomberg said during his weekly radio program, “but maybe it’s time that the two people who want to be president of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it, because this is obviously a problem across the country.”

On Friday morning, television images showed several ambulances moving about and dozens of police officers gathered at the Century 16 complex in the early morning darkness. A police robot could be seen inspecting a white compact sedan, its two doors and trunk wide open, in the parking lot of the movie complex, television images showed, though it was unclear whether the car belonged to the gunman.

Cellphone video appeared to show the traumatic scene outside of the large multiplex immediately after the shooting. Some people wandered away with bloodstained shirts as others could be heard screaming, “Get out of here!”

Dan Frosch reported from Aurora, William K. Rashbaum and Timothy Williams from New York, and Michael S. Schmidt from Washington. Reporting was contributed by Peter Baker from West Palm Beach, Fla.; Elisabeth Bumiller from Washington; and J. David Goodman, Victoria Shannon and Thomas Kaplan from New York. Kitty Bennett and Sheelagh McNeill contributed research.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/us/colorado-mall-shooting.html?hp

TREPYE
July 20th, 2012, 05:13 PM
July 20, 2012

We’ve Seen This Movie BeforeBy ROGER EBERTJAMES HOLMES, who opened fire before the midnight premiere of “The Dark Knight Rises,” could not have seen the movie. Like many whose misery is reflected in violence, he may simply have been drawn to a highly publicized event with a big crowd. In cynical terms, he was seeking a publicity tie-in. He was like one of those goofballs waving in the background when a TV reporter does a stand-up at a big story.
James Holmes must also have been insane, and his inner terror expressed itself, as it often does these days, in a link between pop culture and firearms. There was nothing bigger happening in his world right now than the new Batman movie, and in preparation for this day, or another like it, he was purchasing firearms and booby-trapping his apartment. When he was arrested after the shootings, he made no attempt at resistance. His mission was accomplished.
I’m not sure there is an easy link between movies and gun violence. I think the link is between the violence and the publicity. Those like James Holmes, who feel the need to arm themselves, may also feel a deep, inchoate insecurity and a need for validation. Whenever a tragedy like this takes place, it is assigned catchphrases and theme music, and the same fragmentary TV footage of the shooter is cycled again and again. Somewhere in the night, among those watching, will be another angry, aggrieved loner who is uncoiling toward action. The cinematic prototype is Travis Bickle of “Taxi Driver.” I don’t know if James Holmes cared deeply about Batman. I suspect he cared deeply about seeing himself on the news.
Should this young man — whose nature was apparently so obvious to his mother that, when a ABC News reporter called, she said “You have the right person” — have been able to buy guns, ammunition and explosives? The gun lobby will say yes. And the endless gun control debate will begin again, and the lobbyists of the National Rifle Association will go to work, and the op-ed thinkers will have their usual thoughts, and the right wing will issue alarms, and nothing will change. And there will be another mass murder.
That James Holmes is insane, few may doubt. Our gun laws are also insane, but many refuse to make the connection. The United States is one of few developed nations that accepts the notion of firearms in public hands. In theory, the citizenry needs to defend itself. Not a single person at the Aurora, Colo., theater shot back, but the theory will still be defended.
I was sitting in a Chicago bar one night with my friend McHugh when a guy from down the street came in and let us see that he was packing heat.
“Why do you need to carry a gun?” McHugh asked him.
“I live in a dangerous neighborhood.”
“It would be safer if you moved.”
This would be an excellent time for our political parties to join together in calling for restrictions on the sale and possession of deadly weapons. That is unlikely, because the issue has become so closely linked to paranoid fantasies about a federal takeover of personal liberties that many politicians feel they cannot afford to advocate gun control.
Immediately after a shooting last month in the food court of the Eaton Centre mall in Toronto, a young woman named Jessica Ghawi posted a blog entry (http://jessicaredfield.wordpress.com/2012/06/05/late-night-thoughts-on-the-eaton-center-shooting/). Three minutes before a gunman opened fire, she had been seated at the exact place he fired from.
“I was shown how fragile life was,” she wrote. “I saw the terror on bystanders’ faces. I saw the victims of a senseless crime. I saw lives change. I was reminded that we don’t know when or where our time on Earth will end. When or where we will breathe our last breath.”
This same woman was one of the fatalities at the midnight screening in Aurora. The circle of madness is closing.

Roger Ebert is the film critic of the Chicago Sun-Times and the author of “Life Itself: A Memoir.”




http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/opinion/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html?hp&pagewanted=print

scumonkey
July 20th, 2012, 05:27 PM
it was reported that this loon also dyed his hair red, and told the police he was the joker...

stache
July 20th, 2012, 07:04 PM
What is it with Colorado?

lofter1
July 20th, 2012, 11:47 PM
I hope we're all in agreement that the shooter's photo should NOT be posted here.

OmegaNYC
July 21st, 2012, 02:59 PM
What is it with Colorado?

My question would be, "What is it with America?" Untill we as a nation address the issue of the ease that guns are available, we can expect more horrible shootings such as this.

mariab
July 21st, 2012, 03:26 PM
‘Dark Knight Rises’ shooting: Cops deactivate elaborate booby trap in gunman James Holmes’ Colorado apartment

Bomb squads on Saturday morning successfully used a “controlled detonation” to disarm tripwires rigged to set off a maze of mysterious liquids and mortar shells.

By Bill Hutchinson (http://wirednewyork.com/authors?author= Bill Hutchinson) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:52 PM
Updated: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 1:52 PM


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1119226.1342893086!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/detonate22n-1-web.jpg

BOB PEARSON/EPA

An officer in bomb protection gear walks outside the apartment of suspected gunman James Holmes in Aurora, Co. Holmes was apprehended following a shooting incident at the premiere of the latest Batman movie 'The Dark Knight Rises' at the Century 16 Theaters in Aurora. Twelve people were killed and 58 injured, making the shooting the worst since the Virginia Tech shootings in 2007.

Cops have started the process of deactivating an elaborate booby trap in Colorado gunman James Holmes (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/James+Holmes)’ apartment.
Bomb squads on Saturday morning successfully used a “controlled detonation” to disarm tripwires rigged to set off a maze of mysterious liquids and mortar shells.
They said they might have to use at least one more controlled detonation to dismantle the rest of the explosives the accused mass murderer jerry-rigged to maim and kill.
“We have been successful in defeating our first threat,” Sgt. Cassidee Carlson of the Aurora Police Department said at midmorning press briefing. “This is some serious stuff they're dealing with.”
“Detonation was successful,” the Aurora Police Department Tweeted at 1:40 p.m.
Carlson said firefighters were put into place and police evacuated the adjacent blocks around the apartment building.
“We have no idea how long any of this is going to take,” Carlson said. “We don’t need to rush anything.”
She said bomb techs hope to disarm the 800-square-foot apartment with as little damage as possible.
“We don’t want to lose evidentiary value,” Carlson said. “We’ll be cautious about how we deal with things.”
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1119222!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/detonate22n-5-web.jpgKevork Djansezian/Getty Images

Seen from the air, police surround the booby-trapped apartment of suspect James Holmes after he went on a shooting rampage at nearby Century 16 movie theatre during an early morning screening of the new Batman movie, 'The Dark Knight Rises' on July 21.
Carlson said firefighters were put into place and police evacuated the adjacent blocks around the apartment building.
“We have no idea how long any of this is going to take,” Carlson said. “We don’t need to rush anything.”
She said bomb techs hope to disarm the 800-square-foot apartment with as little damage as possible.
“We don’t want to lose evidentiary value,” Carlson said. “We’ll be cautious about how we deal with things.”
Carlson admitted police have still not identified the contents of the some of the canisters in the apartment.
“There is still unknowns,” Carlson said. “We are aware of some jars that may contain accelerant.”
Now that the tripwires are dismantled, bomb-squad cops will tackle a second set of problems.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1119224!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/detonate22n-3-web.jpgChris Schneider/Getty Images

Law enforcement officials tow nearby cars as they prepare to disarm the booby-trapped apartment of suspect James Holmes after he went on a shooting rampage at nearby Century 16 movie theatre during an early morning screening of the new Batman movie, 'The Dark Knight Rises' on July 21, 2012 in Aurora, outside of Denver, Colorado. According to reports, 12 people have been killed and over 59 injured. Police have the suspect, twenty-four year old James Holmes of North Aurora, in custody and are now dealing with various devices and trip wires in the apartment.


Sources told the Washington Post cops face up to 30 softball-size canisters packed in explosive powder. Other canisters appear to be large fireworks, some containing what is believed to be “smokeless powder.”
Finally, police will be confronted by a series of containers filled with mysterious brown liquid, bullets and black powder. Some of the liquids are as dark as Guinness beer topped with a layer of lighter colored liquids.
Officers hope to dismantle the explosive devices and move them to a dump truck filled with explosive-deadening sand.
Holmes, a neurosciences student, apparently set up a timer that triggered his stereo system to play loud techno music, hoping to prompt neighbors to call 911 and draw cops at the same time he was killing people at a movie theater five miles away.
Police believe Holmes set his apartment to blow up responders as they crashed through the door.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dark-knight-rises-shooting-cops-deactivate-elaborate-booby-trap-gunman-james-holmes-colorado-apartment-article-1.1119227#ixzz21HowFNQK

Fabrizio
July 21st, 2012, 06:33 PM
The shootings in Norway were a shock ...but this? No surprise here.

There are enough mass shootings in the US to make last week's Tuscaloosa incident already forgotten (17 shot).

That one was also carried out with a military-style assault rifle.

Obama's speech of condolence to the families of the victims in Colorado was a disgrace.

The leader of a country were this shit takes place all too frequently might want to mention that there's something wrong with a system that allows some jerk-off kid to legally buy 6,000 rounds of ammunition and an AR-15 assault rifle (equipped with a high capacity drum style magazine).


-----

The AR-15:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/AR15.jpg

Fabrizio
July 21st, 2012, 08:46 PM
And of course the American media kicks into 24hour overdrive and stops at nothing.

Below I'm posting a link to the Today Show with Savannah Guthrie interviewing a young woman who was at the screening.

The poor girl seems to be in shock and on the edge of a breakdown... but Ms. Guthrie barrels through.

If that's not enough, a few minutes into the interview a 3D enactment of the tragedy is shown.

My heart goes out to the poor girl, but the Today Show should be ashamed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/42048305#48268617

And speaking of stopping at nothing: the Today Show has brought back Ann Curry to cover the tragedy.

Just a couple of weeks ago they dumped her... but hey, no one has a soothing "I-understand-your-pain" voice quite like Ann.

eddhead
July 22nd, 2012, 11:24 AM
Your last two posts were spot on. What has to happened before gun control reform becomes a reality in this country? Unfortunately, we'll never see the day; the gun special interests groups in this country are too strong and our leaders lack the political will to take them on, Obama included. It makes me sick. And your right; NBC's coverage was disgraceful.

mariab
July 22nd, 2012, 04:21 PM
Veronica Moser: The youngest of theater shooter James Holmes's victims in the Aurora 'The Dark Knight Rises' movie screening attack

Veronica's mother remains hospitalized with a bullet lodged in her neck, unaware that her daughter is dead. 'Nobody can tell her about it,' a family member said. 'She is in critical condition, but all she's asking about is her daughter.'

By Erin Durkin (http://wirednewyork.com/authors?author=Erin Durkin) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Published: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 11:33 AM
Updated: Sunday, July 22, 2012, 1:29 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1119599.1342975413!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/veronica23n-2-web.jpg

Veronica Moser was the youngest child killed by Colorado madman James Holmes during his movie theater attack outside of Denver.

The youngest victim of the Aurora shooting was a vibrant 6-year-old girl who had just learned to swim.
Veronica Moser, 6, was among the 12 people shot to death by madman James Holmes.
Her gravely injured mom Ashley Moser, 25, was in critical condition at Aurora Medical Center, drifting in and out of consciousness.
After calling out for daughter, unaware she had died, she was reportedly informed on Sunday that Veronica had been killed in the shooting, NBC's Kate Snow reported (https://twitter.com/tvkatesnow/status/227069236751761409).
Veronica loved school, dressing up and was bragging to her family about the swimming lessons she just started, said her great-aunt Annie Dalton.
“She was a wonderful 6-year-old girl — proud that she learned how to swim this summer,” Dalton told Bloomberg News. “She loved to go to school, loved her grandpa who just passed away recently — that was hard for her.”
"She loved to dress up and read and was doing well at school. She was beautiful and innocent,” she told The Denver Post. “It’s a nightmare right now.”
Ashley Moser, who had recently been accepted to medical school, was shot in the neck and abdomen, and doctors have been unable to remove the bullet in her neck. She was expected to suffer some paralysis, though the extent was unclear.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/veronica-moser-youngest-theater-shooter-james-holmes-victims-aurora-dark-knight-rises-movie-screening-attack-article-1.1119600#ixzz21Nu30qfp


And another story about guys who died protecting their girlfriends:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/aurora-shooting-died-bullets-sweeties-article-1.1119395

Ninjahedge
July 23rd, 2012, 10:25 AM
There is a simple problem.

it is not just in the allowance of guns and ammunition being sold in the US, but the lack of ANY kind of filter or warning system to be set up to alert us about this.

Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?

Buying that much that fast is usually a sign. Also, someone who has these things setup in a way that would be feasible for direct use (3 weapons that could all be carried, etc) is another warning sign that should have had a background check on him.

As for pictures of him, not posting, but he looks a lot like a bunch of other social rejects that just demanded attention. We had one in our HS way back that ran through the school with a fire axe and smashed up a $250K planetarium machine (he was also known for burying cats up to their head and running over them with lawnmowers, but I digress).

We spend so much time and money tracking down pot smokers and mexican illegals and we seem to lose site of these things that really can hurt us much more directly.


As for our "rights", that is such a stupid paranoid argument. Until we get back to local militias (get RID OF THE NATIONAL GUARD!), the need for anything more than a small revolver is fiction.

But people like holding their mechanical penis in their hands. And although 99% of the people out there can stroke it the right way, there is still that 1% that feels they need to bend other people over with it.

eddhead
July 23rd, 2012, 12:45 PM
Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?


The NRA lobby is too strong and the political will of our elected officials is too weak. They're all a bunch of damned cowards.

BBMW
July 23rd, 2012, 12:51 PM
There is a simple problem.

it is not just in the allowance of guns and ammunition being sold in the US, but the lack of ANY kind of filter or warning system to be set up to alert us about this.

Somehow, you buy a bag of fertilizer and you could be shipped off to Guantanamo. But you buy 6000 rounds of ammo, 3 guns, extended clips, riot armor and a gas mask and you are hunkey-dorey?


There are enough people doing this, the trying to keep track of them would be functionally useless. When Obama came into office there was a wholesale panic in the shooting community that the bulk buying created serous shortages. Even if the sales were tracked, what would be done about the data? Go ask each one if they're planning a massacre.

And even trying to set up a system would kick a political hornets nest. Even if that could be done, trying to take action agains someone for just purchasing what is essentially a legal commodity would create even a bigger firestorm. Gun control has become politically radioactive for a reason.




Buying that much that fast is usually a sign. Also, someone who has these things setup in a way that would be feasible for direct use (3 weapons that could all be carried, etc) is another warning sign that should have had a background check on him.

As for pictures of him, not posting, but he looks a lot like a bunch of other social rejects that just demanded attention. We had one in our HS way back that ran through the school with a fire axe and smashed up a $250K planetarium machine (he was also known for burying cats up to their head and running over them with lawnmowers, but I digress).

We spend so much time and money tracking down pot smokers and mexican illegals and we seem to lose site of these things that really can hurt us much more directly.


Whatever you think about pot smoking and illegal immigration, these people have actually done something illegal. What you're talking about is trying to predict who will do something illegal. That's a big step.



As for our "rights", that is such a stupid paranoid argument. Until we get back to local militias (get RID OF THE NATIONAL GUARD!), the need for anything more than a small revolver is fiction.


Sorry that ship has saled. With the SCOTUS Heller and McDonald decisions, the question of whether there's an individual right to gun ownership (and not just your small pistol) has been decided, and not in the way you'd like.



But people like holding their mechanical penis in their hands. And although 99% of the people out there can stroke it the right way, there is still that 1% that feels they need to bend other people over with it.

eddhead
July 23rd, 2012, 01:02 PM
There are enough people doing this, the trying to keep track of them would be functionally useless. When Obama came into office there was a wholesale panic in the shooting community that the bulk buying created serous shortages. Even if the sales were tracked, what would be done about the data? Go ask each one if they're planning a massacre.

And even trying to set up a system would kick a political hornets nest. Even if that could be done, trying to take action agains someone for just purchasing what is essentially a legal commodity would create even a bigger firestorm. Gun control has become politically radioactive for a reason.

We could legislate waiting periods, background checks, restrictions on certain types of weapons such as assault weapons, types of ammunitions etc...


Whatever you think about pot smoking and illegal immigration, these people have actually done something illegal. What you're talking about is trying to predict who will do something illegal. That's a big step.

That is not the point. We focus tremendously high amounts of resources policing activity that is illegal but harmless at the expense of activity that is legal but harmful. Our society has lost its compass. We have no idea why we don't like people smoking pot but we outlaw it. We have no idea why people need assault weapons, but that is OK.



Sorry that ship has saled. With the SCOTUS Heller and McDonald decisions, the question of whether there's an individual right to gun ownership (and not just your small pistol) has been decided, and not in the way you'd like. Not quite. The SCOTUS decision was very focused on people owning hand guns to protect their property. Scalia went out of his way to define the parameters of his decison in very narrow terms and to not address issues such as waiting periods, registration requirements, assault weapons and certain types of ammo.

BBMW
July 23rd, 2012, 01:41 PM
We could legislate waiting periods, background checks, restrictions on certain types of weapons such as assault weapons, types of ammunitions etc...


In the wake of Heller and McDonald, a lot of these that are in place will be challenged. More likely than not, they'll go down. So from an LE standpoint, as tools, these will likely be unavailable.






That is not the point. We focus tremendously high amounts of resources policing activity that is illegal but harmless at the expense of activity that is legal but harmful. Our society has lost its compass. We have no idea why we don't like people smoking pot but we outlaw it. We have no idea why people need assault weapons, but that is OK.


Not quite. The SCOTUS decision was very focused on people owning hand guns to protect their property. Scalia went out of his way to define the parameters of his decison in very narrow terms and to not address issues such as waiting periods, registration requirements, assault weapons and certain types of ammo.

In terms of dealing with the narrow questions that that were the basis of the suits, they established that the 2nd amendment confers a right directly to individuals, and that it applies to laws passed at any level of government. Other that that, they didn't determine much else. How these rulings will apply to other gun laws will be determined by future president. But no one in the antigun community thought these rulings would go the way the did, so I think predictions that they won't be used to remove other gun restrictions sound pretty hollow now.

But getting away from specific gun issues, the question seems to be how could this have been stopped beforehand. Really, I don't think it could have been. This was one guy acting alone, who had essentially no prior interactions with the criminal justice system, who was never judged mentally ill, and who had significant scientific/technical skill. If all the antigun measures you'd love to see imposed were in place, he'd simple find someother way to commit his massacre, most likely some sort of bomb and/or incendiary device (which is what he rigged at his apartment.)

eddhead
July 23rd, 2012, 01:50 PM
I think it is a stretch to suggest that efforts to legisalte restrictions on AW, certain types of ammo, and to add more rigerous registraton and filtering disciplines will be challanged. In both instance, the votes for the majority were 5-4, and each majority opinion contained differing views on elements of the law. What is lacking is he polictical will on the part of our coward legislators.

What is interesting however is that the SCOTUS rulings have had very little effect on local gun control efforts in places like, well NYC for instance.

In terms of how this could have prevented before hand, you have a case where an individual purchased a great deal of assault and other automatic weapons, tactical riot gear including a bullet proof vest, tear gas, and many, many rounds of ammo in a very short period over the internet with no backgound check, registration, or requirements by the sellers to report to these large purchases to law enforcement, despite the high volume and nature of what was purchased. What do you think?

BBMW
July 23rd, 2012, 02:40 PM
I think it is a stretch to suggest that efforts to legisalte restrictions on AW, certain types of ammo, and to add more rigerous registraton and filtering disciplines will be challanged. In both instance, the votes for the majority were 5-4, and each majority opinion contained differing views on elements of the law. What is lacking is he polictical will on the part of our coward legislators.


I have a feeling we'll find this out experimentally.



What is interesting however is that the SCOTUS rulings have had very little effect on local gun control efforts in places like, well NYC for instance.


Yet. There are cases challenging NYS gun control laws percolating up the judicial food chain. It might take a few year for one to get to the SCOTUS.



In terms of how this could have prevented before hand, you have a case where an individual purchased a great deal of assault and other automatic weapons, tactical riot gear including a bullet proof vest, tear gas, and many, many rounds of ammo in a very short period over the internet with no backgound check, registration, or requirements by the sellers to report to these large purchases to law enforcement, despite the high volume and nature of what was purchased. What do you think?

Let's say that there was some sort of tracking for this, and the Aurora PD got an email at some point before the attack, with just that information. What are they going to do about it? None of the stuff is illegal. The purchaser didn't do anything illegal. Also, if they were getting this information, I'm sure this guy would be far from the only one that would get on the radar. So what action would they take, considering no laws had been broken?

eddhead
July 23rd, 2012, 02:56 PM
ILet's say that there was some sort of tracking for this, and the Aurora PD got an email at some point before the attack, with just that information. What are they going to do about it? None of the stuff is illegal. The purchaser didn't do anything illegal. Also, if they were getting this information, I'm sure this guy would be far from the only one that would get on the radar. So what action would they take, considering no laws had been broken?

You just made my point. AW possession should be illegal. You should have to register to buy ammo, and the purchase of large volumes of certain type of ammo should be illegal. And why does anyone need tear gas or riot gear?

Ninjahedge
July 23rd, 2012, 04:10 PM
Good cops would put him on the radar.

One of the reasons why many crimes are prevented is because the cops start looking at certain tell signs that the individual is ready to move.

Him dying his hair orange, calling himself "joker" and asking for sex "before he goes to jail" would definitely be enough to get a warrant for possible terrorist activities.

What, you have to be a Muslim before shooting dozens of people is a terrorist activity? Otherwise it is just a "crime"?

The issue here is also not whether they could have done anything, but the fact that they COULDN'T DO ANYTHING with our current system. THAT is a sign that it is broken, not stipulating "Well what would they have done if they knew?"

I would rather have the options available to me to make a difference than to argue that I could not do anything even if I had them.

ZippyTheChimp
July 23rd, 2012, 04:41 PM
Nevermind.

Ninjahedge
July 23rd, 2012, 05:17 PM
The point being that there were many events that were prevented BEFORE they happened because of information like this.

The Time Square bomber would be one example.

The difficult question would be this: What steps could be done to prevent this without proceeding into a totalitarian state?




On a side note, I always laugh at people who say that the reason that guns are allowed is so that they can protect themselves, and that the only way to protect yourself is to have the right to have them with you at all times. So at an event like this, where people are ALLOWED to have firearms, not a single person pulled one out to fire back at the guy.

I bet they all felt safer knowing they could have if they wanted to.

mariab
July 23rd, 2012, 08:42 PM
'Today' sent undercover investigators around CO & AZ to show how easy it is to acquire an assault rifle. It included a night meeting in a parking lot with a man who sold them a 50 calibre sniper rifle capable of piercing armored vehicles. The man who sold it to the investigators, like the ones shown before him, gave not a damn about whose hands the weapons could fall into.

After the ad it's a 4.5 min video.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/48283194#48283194

mariab
July 25th, 2012, 07:52 PM
Apparently there were warnings by Holmes himself. Heard on the news it was addressed to a campus psychiatrist.
Source: Tip from accused Aurora shooter leads FBI to package

By Mike Kosnar, NBC News

The FBI recovered a package that apparently was mailed by James Eagan Holmes after the shooting suspect told investigators to look for the item on the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus, a senior law enforcement official told NBC News on Wednesday.
The source told NBC that the package contained writings about killing people, but could not go into more detail.
Holmes, a 24-year-old who was in the process of withdrawing from a graduate program in neuroscience at the university, has been arrested in connection with the killing of 12 and the injuring of 58 in a shooting spree at the midnight premier of the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises" in Aurora, Colo. on Friday.
Police recovered the package on Monday after getting a search warrant for the medical center mail room and then getting a second warrant to actually open the package, the law enforcement source said.

Police found the package as Holmes described it, including his name in the return address, and it's now being analyzed, the source said.
It was unclear how long the package had been in the mail room before its discovery.
In response to reporters' queries about the package, the Anschutz Medical Campus issued a statement saying it could not comment on anything regarding the ongoing criminal investigation into the theater shooting, under order of Arapahoe County District Judget William Sylvester.
The statement did provide general information about how mail is handled on campus.
"The University centrally receives mail from the United States Postal Service. The University then delivers the mail to the address on the Anschutz Medical Campus the same day it is received," the statement said. "The University's mail service is not open on Saturday. Saturday mail is sorted and delivered Monday morning. The University does not log or track mail/packages unless it requires a signature from the United States Postal Service."...

Read the rest:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/25/12950440-source-tip-from-accused-aurora-shooter-leads-fbi-to-package?lite

mariab
July 30th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Ashley Moser, injured in 'Dark Knight' shooting, suffers miscarriage

Moser, who took a bullet to the stomach, also lost her 6-year-old daughter during the Aurora massacre

By Rich Schapiro (http://wirednewyork.com/authors?author=Rich Schapiro) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

Sunday, July 29, 2012, 1:44 AM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1124259.1343540933!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/miscarriage29n-2.jpgAshley Moser


A pregnant Colorado woman who took a bullet to the stomach and lost her 6-year-old daughter in the “Dark Knight” rampage has suffered a second tragedy: the death of her unborn child.

News that Ashley Moser’s baby was safe in her womb after the shooting had been hailed as a miracle.

But the 25-year-old Moser suffered a miscarriage after undergoing surgery related to her neck and abdomen wounds, her family said in a statement Saturday.

Moser’s daughter, Veronica Moser-Sullivan, was the youngest person killed in the attack at a midnight showing of the new Batman movie in Aurora July 20.

The family says funeral plans for Veronica remain pending.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1124256!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/miscarriage29n-1.jpgCourtesy Moser Family. Six-year-old Colorado shooting victim Veronica Moser.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ashley-moser-injured-dark-knight-shooting-suffers-miscarriage-article-1.1124254#ixzz226ijHKJR

Ninjahedge
July 30th, 2012, 08:57 AM
I feel bad for her, but i wish the news would stop mentioning that the guy will not be charged for killing the unborn kid.

If that was the only death in this I would protest it, but with so many others, it is a moot point. The guy killed men, women and children. Bringing up that Colorado does not consider an unborns death as murder... that gets too political too fast.

mariab
July 30th, 2012, 03:47 PM
Of course it does. Picture the scene in the courtroom:

"Well, if she wasn't past the first trimester, there's a possibility it could have been a fish, or a houseplant, so no, the defendant wouldn't be responsible."

"It?

"Um, meaning the fetus."

"Well, is there a definitive way of telling the exact day & hour she entered the second trimester?"

And on and on until gun control morphs into arguments on fetus lifecycles.

Ninjahedge
July 30th, 2012, 05:10 PM
Go on until it morphs into banning Abortion in rape victims.

Which it will. Conversations like that are only a few steps away from Hitler. :p

stache
July 30th, 2012, 06:24 PM
Does not even go into 'what the hell are parents doing taking young children to midnight movies?'.

mariab
July 30th, 2012, 07:28 PM
I was wondering that but in light of what happened I thought why rub salt in. It was reported on the news that she will likely be paralyzed.



Go on until it morphs into banning Abortion in rape victims.

Which it will.

Those conversations usually get quashed fast.

Ninjahedge
July 31st, 2012, 09:13 AM
Well here they do...... ;)

mariab
August 7th, 2012, 09:28 PM
They caught one, but it's only a matter of time before they miss one.


‘Dark Knight’ copycat arrested at Ohio movie theater

Police found suspect with loaded 9mm Glock and several knives while waiting in back of theater for show to start.

By Ryan Gorman (http://wirednewyork.com/authors?author=Ryan Gorman) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Tuesday, August 7, 2012, 2:05 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1130753.1344362415!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/copycat8n-2-web.jpgWestlake Police Department

Scott Smith, 37, was arrested Saturday night for carrying multiple weapons into a “Dark Knight” showing at an Ohio movie theater.



Scores of movie goers may have been spared from a "Dark Knight" copycat killer arrested this past weekend at an Ohio movie theater (http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/255119/45/Westlake-Man-arrested-in-movie-theater-with-loaded-gun-and-knives).
A man was arrested at the Regal Cinemas at Crocker Park, in Westlake Saturday after he was discovered to be in possession of multiple weapons while sitting in an empty theater waiting for the 10 p.m. showing of "The Dark Knight Rises" to start.
Scott Smith (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Scott+Smith), of North Ridgeville, had a beige satchel that raised suspicion when he entered the theater. After Smith took a seat, an off-duty Westlake police officer who was providing security to the movie theater asked to search the bag.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1130752!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/copycat8n-3-web.jpgWKYC TV

Police providing security at the Regal Cinemas Crocker Park found a loaded 9mm Glock handgun, multiple loaded magazine and four knives on Scott Smith.


The officer found a loaded 9mm Glock handgun, multiple loaded magazines and three knives inside, Westlake Police Lt. Ray Arcuri said. An additional knife was found underneath his clothes.
"He sat in the last row, right in the middle," said Arcuri. "If he was going to try to assault anybody, he'd have a full range of victims."
Arcuri added that being in the back row prevented anybody from being able to come up from behind Smith, giving him a "tactical advantage."
News of the arrest stunned moviegoers.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1130751!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/copycat8n-4-web.jpgWKYC TV

Police prevented a possible “Dark Knight” copycat killer from carrying out an assault at a 10 pm show Saturday night.


"That's really scary," Jennifer Moore told WKYC. "We were just talking about copycats … it definitely puts you on high alert."
Police searched Smith's truck in the parking lot and found a tactical vest, the station reported.
"That was luck," Lillian McNulty told the station, "or divine intervention."
In a statement emailed to the Daily News, Regal spokesman Russ Nunley said the cinema chain takes "safety and security very seriously." He added that Regal prohibits all patrons from carrying firearms or concealed weapons into theaters and that the theater reserves the right to search anyone's backpack, package or bag.
In the wake of the Colorado "Dark Knight" attack, many theaters made decisions to restrict the types of costumes customers were allowed to wear. Nunley wrote that Regal will enforce "stricter controls" over attire and accessories.
Cops searching Smith's home Monday night found an additional arsenal of six to eight pistols, rifles and shotguns and hundreds of rounds of ammunition, said Arcuri. Officers also discovered prescription medication in the home that may have prevented Smith from being able to own firearms.
Smith told police he was unemployed after being downsized from the military due to a previous injury, Arcuri said officials could not confirm if Smith ever served.
The FBI and the ATF are assisting with the investigation, Arcuri said, but only in state charges have been filed.
Officials have charged Smith with one felony count of carrying a concealed weapon, one felony count of having weapons under disability - because of the medication - and four misdemeanor counts of carrying various weapons.
Arcuri declined to confirm the medication found in the home.
Smith has no prior criminal record and no motive has been established.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dark-knight-copycat-arrested-ohio-movie-theater-article-1.1130755#ixzz22ui2S35w

Ninjahedge
August 8th, 2012, 09:08 AM
After Smith took a seat, an off-duty Westlake police officer who was providing security to the movie theater asked to search the bag.

OK, here's the scary part.

Did the cop have the right to search that bag?

It is scary on two levels. First is obvious. If the guy refused, but did not make a scene, would he have been able to stay? Would he have carried this out?

Second. Will cops be allowed "search and seizure" in any public place, on or off duty, on suspicion?

Such a small group of people can destroy freedom for everyone.

mariab
August 8th, 2012, 04:40 PM
After CO they're all on edge, & probably thinking I can't wait til this frigging movie disappears. Sadly, someone out there is waiting for the right trigger to do it all over again, & it will have nothing to do with Batman.


Btw a guy with a mug like that one, I'm surprised he doesn't have three names.

mariab
October 1st, 2012, 04:13 PM
Access link on bottom for video.

Aurora shooting survivor teams up with Bloomberg to push for presidential gun control debate

Stephen Barton wants Obama and Romney to make gun control a top talking point in upcoming debate.


By Kristen A. Lee (http://wirednewyork.com/authors?author=Kristen A. Lee) / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Monday, October 1, 2012, 1:20 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1172033.1349111367!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/aurora2n-3-web.jpg

maigcoalition via YouTube

“This past summer in a movie theater in Colorado I was shot — shot in the face and neck,” says Aurora victim Stephen Barton as he pushes for gun control as a topic of the presidential debates.

A young man who was shot in the neck during the Aurora movie theater massacre this summer is teaming up with Mayor Bloomberg (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Bloomberg) to get the White House candidates talking about gun control during the debate this week.
Stephen Barton sits in an eerily empty movie theater in a new national ad urging voters to "demand a plan" from both President Obama and Mitt Romney to stop gun violence.
The “Demand a Plan” campaign is an effort by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which was co-founded by Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.
“This past summer in a movie theater in Colorado I was shot — shot in the face and neck (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-07-20/news/32768150_1_movie-theater-ny-ties-bullet-wound),” Barton says as he sits alone in a theater, with some scarring visible on the left side of his face.
“But I was lucky. In the next four years, 48,000 Americans won’t be so lucky, because they’ll be murdered with guns in the next president’s term,” he continues. “Enough to fill over 200 theaters.”
“So when you watch the presidential debates, ask yourself: Who has a plan to stop gun violence? Let’s demand a plan,” he concludes.
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1172035!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/aurora2n-1-web.jpgRobert Ray (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Robert+Ray)/AP

Stephen Barton, of Southbury, Conn., was one of the victims wounded when a gunman opened fire at a midnight showing of the new Batman movie, "The Dark Knight Rises," in Aurora, where 12 people were killed.


A dozen people were killed and about 60 injured in Aurora, Colorado, this July when accused killer James Holmes allegedly opened fire on moviegoers (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dark-knight-rises-screening-shooting-leaves-20-injured-deaths-feared-reports-article-1.1118289) at a midnight screening of “The Dark Knight Rises.”
Bloomberg and others urged Obama and Romney to promise a crackdown on gun violence after the mass shooting, but neither presidential campaign has made the issue a top priority.
The two White House contenders face off for the first time on Wednesday at the University of Denver, just about 10 miles from Aurora.
The ad will air nationally during the week of the debate.
"When the candidates walk into that auditorium, I hope they'll be thinking about another theater a few miles away where a dozen people were murdered, and dozens more were injured like Stephen," Bloomberg said in a statement. "He deserves a straight answer about what the candidates plan to do about it."
http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1172034!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/aurora2n-2-web.jpgRobert Ray/AP

Barton, a Fulbright Scholarship winner and recent Syracuse University graduate, was on a cross country bike trip with a friend when they stopped to see the latest Batman movie.


Barton, a Fulbright Scholarship winner and recent Syracuse University graduate, was on a cross country bike trip with a friend when they stopped to see the latest Batman movie (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/aurora-shooting-victims-dark-knight-hero-article-1.1119157).
"I never thought I'd be a shooting victim until I was bleeding on a floor in Aurora," Barton said in a statement. "I was lucky, but I've seen what happens when dangerous people get their hands on guns. And I think it's fair to ask the men who want to lead the country to get past the platitudes and give us a serious plan to address a serious problem."
klee@nydailynews.com


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/aurora-survivor-teams-bloomberg-gun-control-article-1.1172036#ixzz2850srJKH

Ninjahedge
October 1st, 2012, 04:35 PM
Ouch.


Literally.