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NYatKNIGHT
March 24th, 2003, 04:13 PM
It was the Commissioners' Plan of 1811 that organized the famous street grid of Manhattan, but below 14th Street, with a few notable exceptions, the street layout was left undisturbed.

There are obviously very famous big streets that bend: Broadway, Bowery, and Riverside to name a few. However, they have mostly been realigned to bend at street intersections. These photos are taken of streets that bend mid-block, often along the boundaries of former colonial land grants, each developed separately before the city devised an overall street plan for Manhattan.


GREENWICH VILLAGE

St. Luke's Place
This street bends twice off 7th Avenue. The park to the left is named for Mayor Jimmy Walker who lived on this street.

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512391.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512393.jpg

A row of 15 Italianate town houses lines the north side of the street overlooking James J. Walker Park. The one to the left of the white one, No. 10, was made famous for being the Huxtable residence on the Cosby show.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512396.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512398.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512399.jpg

No. 6 St. Luke's Place was the home of Mayor Jimmy Walker.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512351.jpg


Morton Street

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512379.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512380.jpg


Barrow Street

Although Barrow Street bends at the intersection of Commerce Street, I included it anyway because it's such a great little street.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512358.jpg

Eugenius
March 24th, 2003, 06:43 PM
Fabulous photos. *I lived in the West Village for a year, and still remember how charming and atypical the streets were. *I would frequently take a side-trip along Commerce street, just to follow the bend. *Interesting observation on the Minetta Brook, will have to remember that one.

ZippyTheChimp
March 24th, 2003, 07:53 PM
Great stuff. That corner on Commerce is my favorite place in the Village.

NYatKNIGHT
March 25th, 2003, 09:40 AM
Mine too. I take people there from out of town to show them just how quaint Manhattan can be. Plus its right there by Chumleys, a required stop on any Village (bar) tour.

Bennie B
March 25th, 2003, 01:36 PM
Great tour, NYatKNIGHT! *Now which way to the gift shop? *:)

Kris
March 25th, 2003, 07:33 PM
I cannot praise you enough for this presentation.

Merry
March 26th, 2003, 04:49 AM
You're a gem, NYatKnight. *This is a wonderful post. *Thank you for the gorgeous photos and informative commentary. *This has made my (birth)day.

I've got a photo somewhere of that Cherry Street scene strewn with rubbish. *Glad to see things have improved (well I guess cars are better than garbage...).

(Edited by Merry at 4:59 pm on Mar. 26, 2003)

amigo32
March 26th, 2003, 05:59 AM
Some very quaint pics! *A couple of those photos reminded me of Eureka Springs. :)

NYatKNIGHT
March 26th, 2003, 06:15 PM
Happy Birthday Merry, and thanks everyone, I'm glad you enjoyed.

North2South
January 24th, 2004, 04:56 PM
Neat thread. You know, West 28th Street and West 24th Streets between 8th and 9th Avenues bend as well (though I don't have any pics).

Gulcrapek
January 24th, 2004, 05:01 PM
I've been on that part of W28 and I didn't even think it was a street; it looked more like a cul-de-sac-ish road in a complex..

YesIsaidYesIwillYes
January 24th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Excellent, excellent photos! Thanks

phxmania2001
January 26th, 2004, 11:14 AM
Plus its right there by Chumleys, a required stop on any Village (bar) tour.

Yeeeah... we have to do that again sometime. :wink:

Very nice job. The Five Points bit was especially good-it's always been one of the more fascinating parts of Manhattan's history.

NYatKNIGHT
January 26th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Plus its right there by Chumleys, a required stop on any Village (bar) tour.

Yeeeah... we have to do that again sometime. :wink:

Okay :D

DougGold
January 26th, 2004, 05:30 PM
I've been on a few movie studio lots, and each of them have a "street" made up to look like NYC, and I gotta tell you, any one of those curved streets from the village could be one of them if you hadn't told me otherwise. Pretty weird.

professionalx
January 28th, 2004, 07:47 PM
Nice photo tour - thanks.
Minetta Brook still flows in a culvert under Minetta Street, by the way - after a heavy rain there are a whole line of basements in the West Village which it sometimes floods, including that of the Minetta Lane Theatre and (15 min. downstream) the Cherry Lane Theatre.

AmeriKenArtist
June 9th, 2005, 05:32 PM
excellent presentation! thank you!

NYatKNIGHT
August 19th, 2005, 12:06 PM
I saw that too. They aren't gone, I still have the originals somewhere, but it may take a while to reorganize. Thanks for being so distraught!

oldNYC
August 24th, 2005, 03:30 AM
Hi, I was also wondering where the photos have gone (and am equally distraught ;))... I actually really like the doyers street area, just because of it's history and reputation, and was wondering where i could find photos!

Thanks!
-n

GVNY
August 24th, 2005, 04:25 AM
I was equally curious where your tour had disappeared to. I am glad you have decided to put your photos back up.

ablarc
August 30th, 2005, 09:03 PM
Still no pix?

NYatKNIGHT
August 31st, 2005, 05:04 PM
I need to find them still, sorry...they're around here somewhere.

ZippyTheChimp
August 31st, 2005, 05:34 PM
This reads like a Google Desktop Search promo.

If you weren't a moderator, I'd nuke this thread.

:)

ablarc
April 29th, 2006, 09:06 AM
NYatKNIGHT, any chance of an encore presentation of your pics? I remember thinking how interesting they were when they were up. They'd be great to see again.

If it helps, I'd be happy to host them on my server; I have near-infinite capacity.

NYatKNIGHT
May 1st, 2006, 04:54 PM
Commerce Street

The Off-Broadway theater was built as a farm silo in 1817, and also served as a tobacco warehouse and box factory before Edna St. Vincent Millay and other members of the Provincetown Players founded the Cherry Lane Theater in 1924.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512367.jpg

Commerce Street has a 90 degree bend.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512366.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59513118.jpg


Grove Street

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512373.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512374.jpg

At the bend of Grove Street lies this alley leading to Grove Court built around 1850. Originally known as Mixed Ale Alley, the Greek Revival mews was built as working-class homes.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512375.jpg


Gay Street

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512371.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512372.jpg


Minetta Street

This little street bends because it follows the course of Minetta Brook, now underground. Once a pristine trout stream, it originated in swamps that covered what is now Washington Square Park and flowed to the Hudson.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512377.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512378.jpg

NYatKNIGHT
May 1st, 2006, 04:55 PM
Lafayette Street

Though a larger thoroughfare, Lafayette Street has some mid-block bends.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512376.jpg


LITTLE ITALY / CHINATOWN

Baxter, Mulberry, Mott, and Elizabeth Streets all have minor mid-block bends as they meander through Little Italy and Chinatown.

Baxter Street

A slight bend just south of the old Police Headquarters.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512360.jpg

The famous Five Points intersection was just south of this bend in Baxter Street (once Orange St.). Columbus Park on the east (right) side of the road is an entire block that was once the city's most notorious slum.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512363.jpg

Columbus Park looking toward the famous "Mulberry Bend".
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512385.jpg


Mulberry Street

The famous "Mulberry Bend" of the Five Points slum was widely known as the roughest block in all New York. In the 1890s, journalist Jacob Riis called Mulberry Bend "the foul core of New York's slums … where nothing short of total demolitions will ever prove of radical benefit." So it happened that the entire block was razed and made a park.
Here's a photo of this bend in the slum years:
http://www.geocities.com/synergy_two/chinatown/history/photos/mulbend1.html

The Bandit's Roost, right at the bend (now part of the park) was the scene of many brutal gang brawls. Now it's a brightly lit Chinatown street.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512386.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512387.jpg

Mulberry Street bends north into Little Italy.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512389.jpg

Mott Street

A bend in Mott Street north of Canal Street. Today Mott Street is the "main street" of Chinatown.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512384.jpg

South of Canal Street and parallel to the Mulberry Bend, this part of Mott Street was the site of New York's first tenements.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512382.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/59512383.jpg

NYatKNIGHT
May 1st, 2006, 04:55 PM
Doyers Street

This tiny street in the heart of Chinatown has no less than three bends.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512368.jpg

Another famous bend, the “Bloody Angle” on Doyers Street becomes notorious for murderous ambushes. Even as late as the 1980's, clashes between gangs in today's Chinatown occured here.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512370.jpg

Down to the Bowery
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512369.jpg


THE LOWER EAST SIDE

Allen Street

Wide Allen Street with a median bends from the East Village grid to the Lower East Side grid.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512356.jpg

Manhattan Bridge in the background
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512354.jpg

Cherry Street

Under the Manhattan Bridge overpass, Cherry Street bends to follow the East River shoreline
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512364.jpg


Hope you enjoyed. There are more streets in the Lower East Side along Division Street that I have not yet visited, and Downtown needs a whole other day.

NYatKNIGHT
May 1st, 2006, 05:05 PM
NYatKNIGHT, any chance of an encore presentation of your pics? I remember thinking how interesting they were when they were up. They'd be great to see again.

If it helps, I'd be happy to host them on my server; I have near-infinite capacity.

Thanks for the offer ablarc, but it was just a matter of ending the laziness and locating the photos on my hard drive out of the hundreds.

I had to break up the post into four, so the last three posts are obviously part of the original. Since then, I've noted so many more bending streets and even photographed a few, so hopefully I'll add those later.

ablarc
May 1st, 2006, 05:47 PM
Thanks, NYatKNIGHT; your pictures are every bit as interesting as I remembered.

Michi
May 1st, 2006, 07:22 PM
I've eaten in the Viet Nam Restaurant. It's great. Really cheap and good food.
It's on the 2nd pic of the Doyers Street.

milleniumcab
May 27th, 2006, 06:26 AM
Doyers Street

This tiny street in the heart of Chinatown has no less than three bends.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512368.jpg

Another famous bend, the “Bloody Angle” on Doyers Street becomes notorious for murderous ambushes. Even as late as the 1980's, clashes between gangs in today's Chinatown occured here.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512370.jpg

Down to the Bowery
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512369.jpg


THE LOWER EAST SIDE

Allen Street

Wide Allen Street with a median bends from the East Village grid to the Lower East Side grid.
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512356.jpg

Manhattan Bridge in the background
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512354.jpg

Cherry Street

Under the Manhattan Bridge overpass, Cherry Street bends to follow the East River shoreline
http://www.pbase.com/image/59512364.jpg


Hope you enjoyed. There are more streets in the Lower East Side along Division Street that I have not yet visited, and Downtown needs a whole other day.
I enjoy driving through those streets even more now... And that house on Commerce bend before it meets Barrow, you know, the one with the Red Bricks.. She is mine the minute I hit the Megga....:)

brianac
December 6th, 2008, 06:16 AM
The alignment of buildings on 30th Street between Broadway and the Avenue of the Americas is off from the grid alignment.

By CHRISTOPHER GRAY (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=CHRISTOPHER GRAY&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=CHRISTOPHER GRAY&inline=nyt-per)
Published: December 5, 2008

The angled Bijou Building, above, at West 30th Street and Broadway, as it was in 1938 and, below, as it appears today. It follows the line of a vanished street, laid out before the establishment of a grid.
The block was not part of a park, but a street — Stewart Street, created by an estate owner who sought to redevelop his land before Manhattan’s grid plan existed.

In the early 19th century, three irregular north-south roads went up Manhattan Island past what is now 30th Street: Middle Road, roughly at Lexington Avenue; Broadway, in its present location; and Fitz Roy Road, at about Eighth Avenue.

...

Full text at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/realestate/07scapes.html?ref=realestate

Copyright 2008 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

Derek2k3
December 6th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Thanks for posting, finally an answer to this.

[
The Bijou Building at 1239 Broadway, built in 1915 and 16 stories tall, is particularly striking. Flanked by much lower buildings, its high, angled form, 39 feet wide, is the only trace left of Stewart Street.


Not true, there are other angled lots across Sixth Avenue, between 29th and 30th.

ablarc
December 6th, 2008, 11:10 AM
785 Eighth Avenue is also built on a partly angled lot. What's the explanation there?




Btw, I'm glad this thread got bumped. One of my favorites.

Gives you a vision of how all of Manhattan could have turned out if they hadn't adopted the Commissioners Plan. Labyrinth.

brianac
December 6th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Thanks for the info, Derek and Ablarc.

A few photographs would be good. Anyone?

ZippyTheChimp
December 6th, 2008, 04:33 PM
785 Eighth Avenue is also built on a partly angled lot. What's the explanation there?

Fitz Roy Road started in Greenwich Village, at Southampton Road (about 14th St between 7th and 8th). It ran north, crossed to the west of 8th Ave at 22nd St, swung back and crossed again at 33rd. It ran north just to the west of 8th, and ended at 42nd St between 8th and 9th.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3453/stewartst02ou8.jpg

Plot #92 is the estate of James Stewart.


As it looks today.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/3561/stewartst01mk1.jpg

The buildings to the south didn't front Stewart St, but they follow the alignment of the property that once occupied the vacant lots.

brianac
December 7th, 2008, 04:13 AM
Thanks Zippy, good information.

ablarc
December 7th, 2008, 08:53 AM
So how come Fitz Roy Rd. disappeared and Broadway didn't?

And what was the mechanism whereby the city took land to build the street grid?

And who did the subdivision into lots: government or landowner?

stache
December 7th, 2008, 09:17 AM
Broadway is an ancient Indian footpath that runs along the high point of Manhattan.

lofter1
December 7th, 2008, 12:33 PM
The grid plan (which spelled out the not-so-immediate end of Fitz Roy Road) was the result of the Commissioner's Plan of 1811 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commissioners'_Plan_of_1811) enacted by the NYS Legislature.



The Commissioners' Plan of 1811 was a proposal by the New York State Legislature (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Legislature) adopted in 1811 for the orderly development and sale of the land of Manhattan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan) between 14th Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Street_(Manhattan)) and Washington Heights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Heights,_Manhattan). The plan is arguably the most famous use of the grid plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_plan) and is considered by most historians to have been far-reaching and visionary ...

The plan was formulated by a three-member commission made up of Gouverneur Morris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouverneur_Morris), the lawyer John Rutherfurd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rutherfurd), and the surveyor Simeon De Witt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_De_Witt).

The plan called for a regular grid of streets and property lines without regard to the topography (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topography) of the island itself ...

The old Bloomingdale Road (which is pictured on the original 1811 map) became part of what is now known as Broadway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(New_York_City)).


Before 1807 many parcels had been sold or granted to private individuals, and the configuration of the plots were at odds with a strict grid.

The Commissioners' report of 1807 (http://www.library.cornell.edu/Reps/DOCS/nyc1811.htm) (with a modern introduction and an 1811 map) addressed the issue ...

Under the terms of the Dongan Charter (http://www.nysm.nysed.gov/albany/charter.html) of 1686 the little English colonial city of New York that then occupied only the southernmost tip of Manhattan became the governing authority for the entire island. Equally important, the Charter conferred on the new municipality ownership of all land in Manhattan that had not previously been granted or sold to individuals. Most of this enormous public domain -- probably several thousand acres -- lay north of what is now 23rd Street and included the central spine of Manhattan Island.

From time to time during the next century the city sold parts of its public domain to raise funds for municipal purposes while keeping taxes low. New York faced new needs following the Revolution. At that time at least 1300 acres of municipal land remained of the so-called Northern Commons whose irregular boundaries lay between the modern Third and Seventh Avenues. In 1785 the City Council ordered its surveyors to divide this tract into plots of 5 acres to be sold at auction. Middle Road, now Fifth Avenue, provided access to these parcels.

It was the time to buy real estate in Manhattan. In 1789 nine purchasers bought just under 200 acres for about $70 an acre. One of these areas was bounded by what are now Broadway, Lexington Avenue, and 32nd and 42nd Streets. Another occupied the rectangle formed by the future Third and Fifth Avenues and 42nd and 48th Streets.

The city changed its policy in 1796, directing its surveyor, Casimir Goerck, to locate two additional roads -- now Park and Sixth Avenues -- parallel to Middle Road. Additional five-acre parcels were laid out like the first in long rectangles with their narrow ends fronting the north-south roads. Half of these were put up for sale, and the other half--arranged to alternate with the parcels for sale--were made available for 21-year leases.

While the city's jurisdiction over the Common Lands was absolute, its powers to determine street alignment and widths where private ownership prevailed were less clear. Several maps recorded the existing street pattern early in the l9th century and included unofficial proposals for how new streets and squares might be developed. Evidently these suggestions created a good deal of controversy.

Finally, in February, 1807 the Common Council asked the state legislature for help in planning future streets. In a memorial sent to Albany the Council set forth its ultimate goal as "laying out Streets ... in such a manner as to unite regularity and order with the public convenience and benefit and in particular to promote the health of the City ...." They described their difficulties. One was the lack of authority of the Council to bind its predecessors to follow any plan. Other problems they stated were:

"equally palpable and of very considerable magnitude.
The diversity of Sentiments and opinions which has
heretofore existed and probably will always exist among
the members of the Common Council, the incessant
remonstrances of ... [land owners] ... against plans
however well devised or beneficial wherein their
individual Interests do not concur and the Impossibility
of completing those plans thus opposed but by a tedious
and expensive course of Law are obstacles of a serious
and very perplexing nature."
Attached: A Map showing Manhattan as it appeared in the early 1800s; the somewhat winding Fitz Roy Road no longer exists, but its former configuration is nearly apparent to the west of "The Parade" (an open square which lies in the vicinity of today's Madison Square) ...

*

lofter1
December 7th, 2008, 01:04 PM
Here is a LINK (http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nynewyo2/history/OldMaps1.htm) to a the map from 1852 (part of which Zippy posted previously). It clearly shows almost the full length of Fitz Roy Road from where it starts down in Greenwich Village (near the intersection of today's W 14th Street / Eighth Avenue, the site of a much-discussed Deli (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8629&page=10) ;) ) and then north, somewhat along the path of Eighth Avenue to ~ West 38th Street, where the map ends.

Also found at that web page is a chart which identifies the owners of farms / properties which fronted onto Fitz Roy Road and which are specified on the map by number ...

73. Estate of Bishop Moore, late of Dr. Clement C. Moore.

74. Clarke estate.

92. Estate of James A. Stewart. Stewart street divided it in the centre, running westerly from Bloomingdale road, parallel with the northerly fronting on Broadway, together with Nos. 97, 98 and 99, formed the farm of Peter Van Ordens; that part lying on Fitz Roy Road, was part of Jacob Ordens' farm.

98. Arden estate.

98˝. Estate of Citizen Genet.

99. Estate of Cornelius Ray.

100. Estate of Richard Harrison, Esq., a distinguished lawyer, some fifty years since, late the property of the Hon. David S. Jones, now deceased.

101. The property formerly of Decatur, now, or late, of James Boorman, Esq.

102. Late of George C. Schropel.

103. Formerly of Thomas Tibbett Warner, afterward of Rem Rapelye.

103 b. Late of Isaac Moses.

104. Estate of I. Moses.

105. Codman.

106. John B. Murray.

107. Glass-house farm. Estate of George Rapelye, formerly belonging to Sir Peter Warren; at the northerly boundary line was the Great Kill, so called.

108. Samuel N. Norton.

stache
December 7th, 2008, 06:27 PM
The link is very interesting as it shows the Village before it was raped by the avenues being pushed through it.

ZippyTheChimp
December 7th, 2008, 09:00 PM
So how come Fitz Roy Rd. disappeared and Broadway didn't?In the post colonial period, Broadway's importance was that it connected to the Bloomingdale Road, one of the two principle north-south roads on Manhattan island - the other being the Eastern Post Road (southern section of the Boston Post Road), which ran up the east side. Chatham Sq, the Bowery, and 4th Ave are remnants.

These roads connected to the two principal villages in northern Manhattan, Harlem and Manhattanville. The villages were connected by Manhattan St, now 125th St. At that time, Harlem was populated by wealthy farmers, and Manhattanville was a shipping and manufacturing center, the first stop on the Hudson River Railroad to Albany.

For a time before the entire road was named Broadway, the section of Bloomingdale Road in the Upper West Side was called The Boulevard.

stache
December 8th, 2008, 12:08 AM
I nominate this best WNY thread ever. :)

ablarc
December 8th, 2008, 07:00 AM
Other problems they stated were:

"...The diversity of Sentiments and opinions which has
heretofore existed and probably will always exist among
the members of the Common Council, the incessant
remonstrances of ... [land owners] ... against plans
however well devised or beneficial wherein their
individual Interests do not concur and the Impossibility
of completing those plans thus opposed but by a tedious
and expensive course of Law are obstacles of a serious
and very perplexing nature."

What else is new?

brianac
December 8th, 2008, 09:43 AM
OLD FITZROY ROAD


“Who was Fitzroy?” is the question which has frequently been asked since the announcement was made by the New York Telephone Company that the honoured name of Greeley had been abandoned in the new telephone book for that of Fitzroy.

The new name has given antiquarians an opportunity of showing how much they know of old New York. The name Fitzroy, so far as its association with Manhattan Island is concerned, has long been buried in oblivion. It recalls more or less honoured members of the British peerage who’s name, more than a century ago, was given to two old thorough-fares starting from the upper Greenwich Village section.

There have been many Fitzroys in British history, but the only one remembered in early New York days was Lieut. Gen. Charles Fitzroy, created Baron Southampton in 1780, the first to hold that title. He married Anne, the second daughter of Admiral Sir Peter Warren, to whom, in honor of the success of his fleet in the capture of the French fortress at Louisberg on Cape Breton Island in 1754, the City of New York gave a large tract of land in the Greenwich Village area and where he built a magnificent country home. The Admiral had three daughters. Charlotte the oldest married the Earl of Abingdon, while the third daughter, Elizabeth, married Colonel Skinner. All were honored in having their names given to old city thoroughfares, but the only one visibly remembered today is Abingdon, which survives in Abingdon Square at the southern terminus of Eighth Avenue, where it runs into Hudson Street. A portion of Christopher Street was once known as The Skinner Road.

The Fitzroy Road which is doubtless what the new telephone exchange aims to commemorate rather than the individual, was, prior to 1800, the highway leading from Greenwich to Chelsea and thence northward to the Bloomingdale Road at Forty-second Street, near Times Square. It began at what is now 243 and 245 at West Fourteenth Street between Seventh and Eighth Avenues, running almost due north to 242 and 244 West Twentieth Street, thence sharply northwest crossing the present Eighth Avenue at Twenty-second Street following the line of the Avenue to Twenty-third Street then turning sharply northwest again taking in a portion of the Grand Opera House, to the south side of Twenty-fifth Street at about 312, where the road veered northeast coming back to the Eighth Avenue line at Thirtieth Street which was followed to Thirty-first Street. At that point the Fitzroy Road turned northwest again to Thirty-eighth Street a short distance west of Eighth Avenue where it took a more decidedly northwest slant extending nearly to Ninth Avenue at Fortieth Street. At that point it turned east to seek the Eight Avenue line ending at the south side of Forty-second street, the terminus being at the site now occupied by the buildings at 328 and 340 West Forty-second Street.

Up to a few years ago a few faint marks of the early line could be traced and the late Thomas A. Janvier pointed out several of these vestiges, but recent improvements have practically obliterated all evidences of the ancient Fitzroy Road. There was also at the same time a Southampton Road which began at Seventh Avenue and Fifteenth Street and ran to Eighteenth Street just east of Sixth Avenue and thence parallel with Sixth Avenue to Twenty-first Street.

Charles Fitzroy, Baron Southampton, was the second son of Augustus Fitzroy, whose mother, a daughter of Colonel William Cosby, one of the Governors of the Province of New York, married Charles, the second Duke of Grafton. Charles Fitzroy died in 1797. His wife whose early years had been spent in the Greenwich Village Summer home, lived until 1807. The Baronetcy is still in existence, The present Baron Southampton having succeeded to the title in 1872.

The New York Times
Published July 11th. 1920

Copyright The New York Times.

lofter1
December 8th, 2008, 12:33 PM
Great research ^

A big red ribbon with a gold star to brianac http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

A scouting mission for any little vestiges of the Old Fitz Roy Road has been added to my calendar.

Some additional info (http://www.oldandsold.com/articles13/greenwich-village-3.shtml) about the Greenwich Village home of Sir Peter Warren, which once sat in the neighborhood of the south end of Old Fitz Roy Road:



... Lieut. Gen. Charles Fitzroy, created Baron Southampton in 1780 the first to hold that title. He married Anne, the second daughter of Admiral Sir Peter Warren, to whom, in honor of the success of his fleet in the capture of the French fortress at Louisberg on Cape Breton Island in 1754, the City of New York gave a large tract of land in the Greenwich Village area and where he built a magnificent country home.


... our Peter Warren, throwing his prize money about with a handsome lavishness, and upholding the honour of the British navy as gallantly in American society as ever he had in hostile waters abroad ...

... Warren had lands on the Mohawk River and else-where, but his heart had always yearned for the tract of land in sylvan Greenwich. In that quiet little hamlet on the green banks of the Hudson the birds sang and the leaves rustled, and the blue water rested tired eyes. Peter at this time owned nearly three hundred acres of ground there and now that he had money in plenty, he lost no time in building a glorious dovecote for himself and Mistress Susanna — a splendid house in full keeping with his usual large way of doing things.

Stroll around the block that is squared by the present Charles, Perry, Bleecker and Tenth streets some day, look at the brick and stone, the shops and boarding-houses, — and try to dream yourself back into the eighteenth century, when, in that very square of land, stood the Captain's lovely country seat. In those days it was something enormous, palatial, and indeed was always known as the Mansion or Manse. This is, of course, the basis for the silly theory that Greenwich got its name from the estate. Undoubtedly the Warren place was the largest and most important one out there, and for a time to "go out to visit at Greenwich," meant to go out to visit the Manse. For years the Captain and the Captain's lady lived in this beautiful and restful place with three little daughters to share their money, their affections and their amiable lives. Thomas Janvier's description of the house as he visualises it with his rich imagination is too charming not to quote in part:

"The house stood about three hundred yards back from the river, on ground which fell away in a gentle slope towards the waterside. The main entrance was from the east; and at the rear — on the level of the drawing-room and a dozen feet or so above the sloping hillside — was a broad veranda commanding the view westward to the jersey Highlands and southward down the bay to the Staten Island Hills." The fanciful description goes on to picture Captain Warren sitting on this veranda, "smoking a comforting pipe after his mid-day dinner; and taking with it, perhaps, as seafaring gentlemen very often did in those days, a glass or two of substantial rum-and-water to keep everything below hatches well stowed. With what approving eye must he have regarded the trimly kept lawns and gardens below him; and with what eyes of affection the Launceston, all a-taunto, lying out in the stream! "
I have called the description of the house " fanciful," but it is really not that, since the old house fell into Abraham Van Nest's hands at a later date, and stood there for over a century, with the poplars, for which it was famous, and the box hedges, in which Susanna had taken such pride, growing more beautiful through the years. Not until 1865 was the lovely place destroyed by the tidal wave of modern building.

The Captain kept his town house as well,— the old Jay place, on the lower end of Broadway, but it was at the Manse that he loved best to stay, and the Manse which was and always remained his real and beloved home.

lofter1
December 8th, 2008, 12:48 PM
More history on old streets and connections to Fitz Roy / Warren / Abingdon from a 1921 NY Times article (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E00E3DD1439E133A25754C0A96E9C94 6095D6CF)
(with a pdf link to the full story) ...

SALE IN GREENWICH VILLAGE HOME CENTRE
RECALLS EXISTENCE OF OLD AMOS STREET

More Than a Century Ago It Formed Part of the
Manhattan Holdings Owned by the Earl of Abingdon

Purchaser in 1858 Preferred a Corner at Bethune Street
to a Fifth Avenue and Forty-second Street Parcel

August 7, 1921, Sunday
Real Estate
Page 88, 1568 words

One of the strange yet interesting features which arouse the curiosity
of the casual visitor to old Greenwich Village is the way some of the
numbered streets have of crossing each other at right angles ...

lofter1
December 8th, 2008, 01:06 PM
For anyone thinking of digging deeper:

Per info at Forgotten Streets New York (http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Manhattan/Forgotten.html), the "Fitz Roy Road" was also referred to simply as "Roy Road."

brianac
December 8th, 2008, 01:30 PM
Lofter.

Thanks for the Forgotten Streets link. I shall print that out for further perusal.

ZippyTheChimp
December 14th, 2008, 02:28 PM
At W87th, Broadway jogs a few degrees to the west. this is to align the avenue to the grid, centered between West End And Amsterdam Aves. The Bloomindale Road (shown in red), which Broadway had been tracking, was too far to the east.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/3557/bloomingdalerd01gpj1.jpg


At W104th St, Broadway again tracks the Bloomingdale Road, which curved to the west.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/4031/bloomingdalerd02gsx3.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/8402/bloomingdalerd01id6.jpg

View south from W106th St
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1705/bloomingdalerd02wh0.jpg


The Dutch called all the land west of Central Park from about 23rd to 125 St Bloemendaal. When the British took over New Amsterdam. the name was anglicized to Bloomingdale, and that's how the road built in 1703 got it's name.

Before Straus Park (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=259441) was named in 1913, this area at W107th was called Bloomingdale Square. A 19th century village also centered here, and this part of the Upper West Side is generally the only place where the name survives. The NYPL library branch is called Bloomingdale.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9529/bloomingdalerd03rb8.jpg


Looking north at W108th St, Broadway, now aligned with West End Ave, turns again to conform to the grid. The Bloomingdale Road turned to the left between the two large buildings.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2315/bloomingdalerd04bb0.jpg


The Bloomingdale Road ran along the present Riverside Drive up to W116th St, where it turns east.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/570/bloomingdalerd03gbi6.jpg

It heads down the hill and crosses W125th St (old Manhattan St to Harlem Village). The two green segments are surviving remnants of the road, called Old Broadway.
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7716/bloomingdalerd04gdm2.jpg

It follows the path of Hamilton Pl, ending at St Nicholas Ave & W147th St (shown in blue).
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/284/bloomingdalerd05ggx2.jpg



St Nicholas Ave is another pre-grid important road, called the Kingsbridge Road. It was a branch off the Boston Post Road (light blue). and originated just north of McGowan's Pass.

http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=800210&t=w

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3512/bloomingdalerd08gta5.jpg


From W110th to W123rd St, St Nicholas was known as Harlem Lane.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8982/bloomingdalerd09gtt9.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8744/bloomingdalerd10gag8.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8744/bloomingdalerd10gag8.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3841/bloomingdalerd11grl7.jpg

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5975/bloomingdalerd12gfo2.jpg


At W169th St, there's a name swap. Again, the Broadway name is given to an older road, and the newer gridded street becomes St Nicholas, continuing in a straight line to W193rd St. And Broadway follows the old Kingsbridge route.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2339/bloomingdalerd13gal1.jpg


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4189/bloomingdalerd14gcz7.jpg


Only token adherence is given to the 1811 grid plan in this rocky terrain.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3744/bloomingdalerd15gjq0.jpg

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/2743/bloomingdalerd16gxh3.jpg

We finally arrive at the King's Bridge, but it's not at the same location as the present bridge over the Harlem Ship Canal.

The bridge was oriented east-west over the filled-in Spuyten Duyvil Creek from Marble Head (which was physically and still politically attached to Manhattan) to Kingsbridge Road in the Bronx.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2852/bloomingdalerd17ghk0.jpg

brianac
December 14th, 2008, 05:13 PM
Many thanks Zippy.

I really enjoyed tracking those roads.

I didn't realize the historical significance last year, when I was walking on Broadway up at Dyckman Street and St. Nicholas Avenue when I was in Washington Heights.

stache
December 14th, 2008, 07:08 PM
I didn't realize there were so many roads uptown back in the old days. Zippy, I've always been curious about King's Highway in Brooklyn. Do you have any links I could look at about that?

ZippyTheChimp
December 14th, 2008, 09:21 PM
Brooklyn (actually Kings County) is more complex because of the original six towns.

Kings Highway is a remnant of a larger road system dating from 1704 - Ferry Road, Jamaica Road, Flatbush Road.

Excellent place to get started.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SCENES/kingshwy/kingshwy.html

mariab
June 19th, 2012, 12:15 AM
Beyond-the-Grid Manhattan

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/17/realestate/17COVER_SPAN/17COVER_SPAN-articleLarge.jpgUli Seit for The New York Times
Alan Good lives on Stuyvesant Street, which he calls “a surprise.” It slices through Ninth Street between Second and Third Avenues.

By CONSTANCE ROSENBLUM (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/constance_rosenblum/index.html)

Published: June 15, 2012
THE vast majority of Manhattan (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/classifieds/realestate/locations/newyork/newyorkcity/manhattan/?inline=nyt-geo) residents live on streets that seem to run forever. Twenty-third Street clocks in at about two miles, Second Avenue at nearly seven. Thanks to Manhattan’s grid plan, which is celebrating its bicentennial with an exhibition at the Museum of the City of New York (http://www.mcny.org/), the bulk of the island is laid out in rigid checkerboard fashion.

Multimedia


http://graphics8.nytimes.com//images/2012/02/19/realestate/0617-rea-webHENDERSONbug.190c.pngInteractive Feature (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/19/realestate/20120617_REACOVER.html?ref=realestate)


Five Small Communities Within Manhattan (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/19/realestate/20120617_REACOVER.html?ref=realestate)



But for a few fortunate people (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/02/19/realestate/20120617_REACOVER.html), there is another Manhattan, a handful of short streets that run for just a block, or two or three at the most. Their histories are invariably rich — some were born as driveways for large gated estates — and their charms quickly reveal themselves to both residents and visitors.
Such streets are typically lined with trees and exquisite old buildings, and often adjacent to parks. Many are designated as historic districts. Being off the beaten track and sometimes gated, they tend to be unusually safe. Many have adorable names, like Patchin Place and Sniffen Court, and have been home to celebrated residents (E.E. Cummings on Patchin Place; Irving Berlin on Beekman Place).
Small and tucked away, these streets offer a respite from the hectic city. “They have a special quality,” said Kevin Walsh, the creator of Forgotten New York (http://forgotten-ny.com/) and one of many urban bloggers who find these enclaves irresistible. “You feel it the moment you set foot on these streets.”
And because they break the geometric precision that dominates much of the island, they offer unexpected vistas. “Even if you don’t think about the grid,” Mr. Walsh said, “you’re subconsciously aware of it, and you notice subliminally when it’s interrupted.”
Short streets have a few downsides. They befuddle taxi drivers. To arriving guests, it can be hard to explain exactly where you live. Residents sometimes know their neighbors almost too well; everyone knows when you come home at 2 in the morning. It’s easy for residents to obsess over amenities like outside lighting and other street furniture. As Simeon Bankoff, the executive director of the Historic Districts Council (http://hdc.org/), said, “People on some of these streets take their sidewalks very seriously.”
But residents don’t complain much. They realize they enjoy a benefit not often found in a big and congested city, the sense of being part of a small and exclusive community. “It was as if everyone was part of a large extended family,” said Alicia Bliss, a 39-year resident of Henderson Place (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE6D61531F930A35754C0A9639C8B 63&pagewanted=all), a cul-de-sac north of East 86th Street that is home to dollhouse-size Queen Anne row houses. “Our front door was like a hallway to our neighbors’ houses.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/realestate/beyond-the-grid-manhattan.html?_r=1&hpw

mariab
June 19th, 2012, 12:33 AM
Henderson Place (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE6D61531F930A35754C0A9639C8B 63&pagewanted=all), a cul-de-sac north of East 86th Street that is home to dollhouse-size Queen Anne row houses.

Look at this beauty at the corner of Henderson & E 86th:

http://www.vpike.com/?place=east+86th+st+and+henderson+place+manhattan+ ny

Merry
January 5th, 2014, 02:12 AM
Help! Damsel in distress! (NYat)Knight in Shining Armor, where are you?

I was so looking forward to seeing your awesome pics again after so long <sigh>.


10 Christopher Street

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/01/05/realestate/20140105-OTMNYC-slide-Q7J2/20140105-OTMNYC-slide-Q7J2-jumbo.jpg
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2014/01/05/realestate/20140105-OTMNYC.html?ref=realestate#1

Bob Schwam
June 22nd, 2015, 03:00 AM
This is not the King's Bridge It was the Free Bridge,and it was not (Marble Head ) but Marble Hill.

Bob Schwam
June 22nd, 2015, 03:10 AM
December 14th, 2008, 11:28 AM
#51 (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2982&p=265297&viewfull=1#post265297)
ZippyTheChimp (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/member.php?u=2463) this Bridge was not the King's Bridge but the Free Bridge the the area was Marble Hill not the Marble Head
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18151&stc=1

stache
June 23rd, 2015, 02:07 PM
Also shows a good demarcation of original Upper Manhattan -