Second Avenue Subway on Track

[NYguy]

Daily News...

2nd Ave. line back on track

By PETE DONOHUE

Plans for a Second Ave. subway line are rolling ahead - with two stations in lower Manhattan solidly on the drawing board.

The proposed line would run from 125th St. to the southern tip of Manhattan, with the final two stops - which had been under evaluation - at the South Street Seaport at Fulton and Water Sts. and at Hanover Square and Water St., according to a Metropolitan Transportation Authority document reviewed by the Daily News.

The document is part of a supplemental environmental impact statement that has been completed and will be the subject of public hearings next month.

After public input, the MTA is to complete a final impact statement and, after federal approval, begin the final design early next year. Further study could change the project. Construction is slated to begin at the end of next year.

"It brings us one giant step closer to a shovel going in the ground in 2004," said Manhattan Borough President Virginia Fields, a longtime proponent of the project.

There would be 16 new stations connecting about 8.5 miles of new track. The MTA estimates the $16 billion project will take 12 to 16 years to finish.

The goal is to relieve the stifling overcrowding on the Lexington Ave. line and provide more subway options and connections.

MTA drawings also show a spur from the Second Ave. line that would let trains turn west at 63rd St., then head to Brooklyn via the Broadway line, making its last Manhattan stop at Canal St. before heading over the Manhattan Bridge.

The MTA will conduct two public hearings on the draft next month: May 12, at the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House at 1 Bowling Green, and May 13 at El Museo Del Barrio, Heckscher Building, at Fifth Ave. and 104th St. The hearings begin at 4 p.m.

Proposals to build a subway line along Second Ave. go back as far as 1929 but never got very far. Construction of some tunnel segments began, but work stopped in the 1970s because of the city's fiscal crisis.

The MTA's 2000-04 capital program commits more than $1billion toward the project for preliminary and final design, and the start of construction. The next capital program is expected to continue funding for the project, and officials are hoping for large amounts of federal funds in future years.

[Fabb]

12 to 16 years to finish

I like that kind of never-ending stories.
Good luck to the 2nd Ave. line !

[TLOZ Link5]

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/planning/sas/index.html

Everything you need to know about the project, including maps and a construction timeline.

[DominicanoNYC]

I doubt it:(. Transportation is so much more difficult due to the fact that the closest train is on Lexington! Well for me any way.

[TLOZ Link5]

I live on Second Avenue, so it's somewhat more convenient. *But I'd still need to walk several blocks in either direction to get to a station.

[enzo]

I'm on York and this is LONG overdue.

sigh....I doubt I'll be living here TWO DECADES from now!!!!!

[Kris]

Hearings Set For Second Ave. Subway

The Associated Press

May 12, 2003, 11:53 AM EDT

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has scheduled public hearings to address the $16 billion construction of a Second Avenue subway line.

The hearings, scheduled for Monday and Tuesday, are expected to detail the impact of the project, which is intended to relieve overcrowding on the Lexington Avenue line and improve transportation for people on Manhattan's East Side.

The 8.2-mile line would run from 125th Street in East Harlem to Hanover Square in Lower Manhattan and could take between 12 and 16 years to complete.

At the hearings, officials will discuss issues including congested conditions at intersections within construction zones, displacement of residential and business tenants, and noise caused by construction conditions.

The hearings begin on Monday at 4 p.m. at the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House Auditorium at 1 Bowling Green in Manhattan. Tuesday's hearing will begin at 4 p.m. at El Museo Del Barrio on 104th Street and Fifth Avenue.


Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

[NYatKNIGHT]

From NY1 (http://www.ny1.com/ny/Search/SubTopic/index.html?&contentintid=33394&search_result=1)

East Side Residents Complain About Second Avenue Subway
SEPTEMBER 23RD, 2003

Hundreds of Upper East Side residents angered by plans for the Second Avenue subway packed a public meeting with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority Monday night.

"The noise, the pollution, the potential rats," one resident said, ticking off a common list of concerns.

The construction, estimated to take at least 12 years, is scheduled to begin next year, and residents are starting to think about the impact on their community

"We can show statistics saying that your property in 10, 15 years will rise, but for people who are going to be affected on a day-to-day basis, it hits home a little harder,” said Dan Quart of Community Board 8. “And those statistics are not really comforting."

"There are potentially people that are going lose their homes,” said Manhattan Assemblyman Jonathan Bing. “There are businesses that are going to lose their livelihood from decades being here in their locations on the East Side."

From Falk Drugstore, a fixture at the corner of 72nd Street for the last 50 years, to the popular Patsy's Pizzeria on 69th Street, to nationally owned chains like Rite Aid, the Second Avenue Subway could spell doom for dozens of businesses. Then there are apartment buildings like 301 East 69th Street, where construction will affect hundreds of tenants.

"I just bought this apartment six months ago, and now I find out – after I bought the apartment – that they're thinking about putting a subway system in our building, knocking out the restaurant downstairs,” said one resident.

While Monday's public hearing gave them a chance to air their concerns, some residents felt they weren't being heard.

"It seems like everything's set in stone,” said one woman. “They're really not listening to anybody. They're not giving answers. What happens to people who've put all their life savings into an apartment, and they're going to lose everything? The MTA doesn't care about that. They're just moving forward."

Still, local leaders say the need for the Second Avenue subway will make it worth the pain in the long run.

"It's almost like there's no choice,” said City Council Speaker Gifford Miller, whose district is on the Upper East Side. “You're looking at the most overcrowded subway line in the United States of America, which is going to have added to it 40,000 riders when the Grand Central connection occurs. I mean, it's a nightmare."

MTA officials so no final decisions have been made on where to build station entrances for the new line.

Despite the opposition, the project is moving forward. Construction is expected to begin by the end of 2004.

When completed, the Second Avenue Subway will stretch from 125th Street to Water Street in Lower Manhattan.

- Bobby Cuza
Copyright © 2003 NY1 News

[Fabb]

which is going to have added to it 40,000 riders when the Grand Central connection occurs

What's that about ? When will it occur ?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Long Island RR East Side Access Project
Completion 2012

http://www.pbbulletin.com/Volume19_Issue_3/images/lead_map_lg.jpg

http://www.mta.info/mta/planning/esas/description.htm

[billyblancoNYC]

Why does it have to be 2nd ave? Anyone know? Is there a less central, less commercial place to do it?

[ZippyTheChimp]

It has to be east of Lex, so that leaves 3rd or 1st Aves.

It's the east side of Manhattan - no matter where it goes it will be a major disruption.

[Fabb]

Why does it have to be a problem ?
Metro lines are being added to most of the major big cities in the developed world.

[STT757]

East Side access is a project that will allow the Long Island Rail Road to access Grand Central Terminal, right now only Metro North trains from North of the City are able to access Grand Central.

Long Island Railroad , NJ Transit and Amtrak operate out of Penn Station.

The Long Island Railroad will be able to double the amount of trains into Manhattan, right now Penn Station is at capacity so this will allow LIRR to send more trains into Manhattan. It will offer LIRR travelers access to the East Side of Manhattan, LIRR will offer service to Penn Station (34th street) and Grand Central Terminal.

http://www.parsons.com/about/press_rm/potm/08-2001/index.html

There are also plans to build another "new" LIRR connection to Manhattan extending their Atlantic Ave branch under a new East River tunnel to Lower Manhattan

[ablarc]

Stops on the Second Avenue Line are too far apart. The gaps between 72nd and 57th and between 57th and 42nd are both 15 blocks, or three-quarters of a mile. Adding the crosstown walk from some destinations like York Avenue, this will leave many people with still well more than a half-mile walk to the subway. There is also, inexplicably, a big 14-block gap in the densely-populated area between 86th and 72nd Streets. Why make all these people walk nearly twice as far as they need to? Additional stops are needed at 79th, 65th, 49th and 29th Streets.

As the example of Paris so persuasively demonstrates, train speed is MUCH less important to an efficient system than close proximity of stops and train headway. When you are walking to the subway you are approaching your destination at the speed of (at most) 4 miles per hour, and standing on a subway platform, you are progressing at exactly zero mph.

A second shortcoming of the proposed Second Avenue subway design is that it leaves the East Village with most of its presently-desperate subway service situation largely unaddressed. No new subway entrances are proposed over the two that presently exist. Having the additional option of riding the Second Avenue Line uptown will certainly be preferable to today's opportunities, but the walk to the subway will be exactly the same.

South of 14th Street, the Second Avenue Line should loop broadly into the East Village with maybe two stops. Can you imagine being able to hop a subway at Tompkins Square?

If all this money is going to be spent, it might as well be done right.

[Zoe]

Adding to that, those additional stops should be for a local trains while the original proposed stops are for express. Also, I really think it would be money well spent to start the line on the west side of 125th. And have the train travel cross town along 125 first, then go down 2nd ave. Currently everyone north of the park must travel over 60 blocks south on the subway before they can head east or west, kinda silly. And if they are serious about the success of Harlem's resurgence, this would seem like a no-brainer.

[TLOZ Link5]

The big stretch between the 86th Street and 72nd Street stations has to do with community activism. My family live on 78th Street and would have easily been served by the proposed 79th Street station, but the intersection is too heavily-developed. There are large apartment buildings at both northern corners and a major synagogue, Temple Sharaay-Tefila, on the southwest corner. A stop at 79th Street would have been extremely convenient, but now that the closest stop is six blocks away we'd be better off taking the Lex. At the very least it'll be a lot less crowded, though...80th or 81st Street would have been a better bet.

P.S.: I learned from an old NYT article that the Second Avenue Subway will become the 'T' train.

[ablarc]

NIMBYs again. Don't they ever get tired of making places worse? Don't they ride the subway? They can thank themselves for the chance to exercise each time they make their longish trek to the subway. Or do they mostly ride around in taxis?

[TonyO]

A second shortcoming of the proposed Second Avenue subway design is that it leaves the East Village with most of its presently-desperate subway service situation largely unaddressed. No new subway entrances are proposed over the two that presently exist. Having the additional option of riding the Second Avenue Line uptown will certainly be preferable to today's opportunities, but the walk to the subway will be exactly the same.

South of 14th Street, the Second Avenue Line should loop broadly into the East Village with maybe two stops. Can you imagine being able to hop a subway at Tompkins Square?

If all this money is going to be spent, it might as well be done right.

I agree, I live in the East Village and it would be a waste to not bring the line east below 14th. To get to a subway now, you either walk southwest to F/V, west to 6/N/R/Q/W or north to L.

[NYatKNIGHT]

You're right, they should have a stop somewhere between 14th and Houston.

http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/

Map (http://www.mta.info/capconstr/sas/sas_alignment.htm)

[Kris]

October 21, 2003

TUNNEL VISION

Tunnel to Nowhere, Except Maybe the Future

By RANDY KENNEDY

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/10/21/nyregion/21TUNN.pillarxl.jpg
The Second Avenue subway tunnel, looking north. The money to continue to expand it ran dry in 1975.

Frank Jezycki has seen the future of the subway.

In fact, he saw it again yesterday morning, and it was just as dark as he remembered it.

"Here's a flashlight," he said to a visitor, "in case you get lost."

And with no further formalities, he clamped a hard hat on his head, tucked a map under his arm and led the way down into one of the most expensive monuments to thwarted ambition in all of New York City.

To the thousands of people who walk over it every day, the little rusty metal hatch in the sidewalk next to the bodega in East Harlem looks like just another door to another old basement. But this hatch, about as big as the top of a coffee table, is actually one of the only remaining entrances to a forgotten world.

"People who've lived up on the street around here for 20 years, they have no idea this is down here," Mr. Jezycki said.

What is down there, 45 feet below the asphalt, is the Second Avenue subway, or almost 10 blocks of what was to be the Second Avenue subway before the money ran dry in 1975, the digging stopped and the vast, echoing tunnel to nowhere was sealed up like the Cask of Amontillado.

It is the job of Mr. Jezycki and his men to remember that this hole is still there, to keep it company from time to time and to make sure that it is more or less ready to join the rest of the line when it is finally built, which could be any year now, according to state and federal officials. (Of course, that is basically what state and federal officials said in 1993, 1968, 1944, 1931 and 1920, the year a subway under Second Avenue was first proposed.)

But this time, they promise, it really is going to happen. In fact, jackhammers could be in the ground by the end of next year to start building a line from 125th Street to the southern tip of Manhattan, 8.5 miles of brand new subway at a cost of $16 billion, the first major expansion of the system since the 1940's.

One way or another, that new subway will have to rumble through the dim, musty cavern in which Mr. Jezycki stood yesterday, after descending a treacherous metal staircase that was rapidly losing a battle with rust.

At the bottom is what appears to be a seemingly endless unfinished movie set for a subway. The track bed is there, but with no tracks, ties or ballast.

The steel columns are there, set five feet apart, as they have been since the building of the first subway lines. Yellowish incandescent lights are strung from wires, giving the tunnel the strange feel of a nighttime deck party after all the guests have left.

But there is also something else down there, found nowhere in the real subway: absolute silence. The tunnel is lower than many Manhattan lines, and even its sidewalk grates have been plugged with concrete, so in many portions it is impossible even to hear the sounds of trucks roaring overhead. Instead, somewhere in the far distance the metronomic sound of water dripping into a pool can be heard.

Mr. Jezycki, a hydraulics supervisor, remembers going down into the tunnel in the 1980's, before a huge fan was installed to pump out the humid air. "You'd look into the distance, down the tunnel, and all you could see was fog," he said.

In the early 1980's, lacking money, the city — at Mayor Edward I. Koch's urging — considered renting out the tunnel and another completed stretch between 99th and 105th Streets. Among the ideas for putting the $65 million tunnels to use was a disco, a wine cellar, even a mushroom farm.

The tunnel might not be humid enough to grow porcini these days, but along some stretches, in the long concrete corridors that lead to dead ends, there are stalactites and even baby stalagmites that look like scoops of vanilla ice cream rising from the tunnel floor.

As a visitor heads south toward 110th Street, trying to feel out the way ahead in the darkness, he finally comes up against hard evidence of the fiscal crisis: a featureless concrete wall, past which there is only dirt and solid rock.

As if to underscore the dwindling promise of the tunnel at that end, the floor rises, making the ceiling appear much lower. This is so that ground water will drain to the middle of the tunnel, but it creates the disconcerting illusion that the tunnel is shrinking around you.

"It's like Alice in Wonderland or something," said Donald Dowler, a hydraulics maintainer, who had joined Mr. Jezycki in the tunnel yesterday. "Either this thing is getting smaller, or we're getting bigger."

On the way back to daylight, past a crumpled newspaper from the spring of 1999 and an empty bottle of Smirnoff vodka — practically the only signs of any past human presence — Mr. Jezycki pronounced the tunnel to be in pretty good shape, considering its age. Now all it needs to make it feel like home are trains, riders and of, course, rats.

"Trains bring the people, people bring the food, the food brings the rats," he said. "That's how it works."

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/10/21/nyregion/21TUNN.guyxl.jpg
Frank Jezycki, a hydraulics supervisor who watches over the condition of the Second Avenue subway tunnel, entering it in East Harlem.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

[Clarknt67]

South of 14th Street, the Second Avenue Line should loop broadly into the East Village with maybe two stops. Can you imagine being able to hop a subway at Tompkins Square?

If all this money is going to be spent, it might as well be done right.

You're right on both accounts. They should make an effort to space the upper east side stop closer to 10 blocks apart as that area is densely populated (besides, isn't the point of this multi-million expansion to give these people's feet a break?)

And again, I'm not sure why, if they're going to build this subway, they don't use it as an opportunity to give the East Village and Lower East side a break? It should turn East at 14th and follow the contour of the shore to service the alphabet avenues?

[phxmania2001]

Adding to that, those additional stops should be for a local trains while the original proposed stops are for express. Also, I really think it would be money well spent to start the line on the west side of 125th. And have the train travel cross town along 125 first, then go down 2nd ave. Currently everyone north of the park must travel over 60 blocks south on the subway before they can head east or west, kinda silly. And if they are serious about the success of Harlem's resurgence, this would seem like a no-brainer.

Amen to that. I have to go into the Bronx whenever I want to get to the East Side. (Or take the bus, but that's no fun.)

[Kris]

A trolley might be more indicated (and probable).

[Nets7476]

If they built the line on 1st Ave to begin with, you wouldn't have to worry about following Manhattan's coast. Would have made those in Alphabet City and Yorkvile happier too.

[Clarknt67]

If they built the line on 1st Ave to begin with, you wouldn't have to worry about following Manhattan's coast. Would have made those in Alphabet City and Yorkvile happier too.

well as there are already tunnels built beneath 2nd avenue in the upper east side it's unlikely they'll reroute it from 2nd on the UES. there's still hope for the LES.

then again, trains running through the far east village could be the end of the downtown drag/performance artist/starving artist scene down there, as it would inevitably become more attractive to those damn yuppies. it's one of the few remaining areas of Manhattan that is by any stretch of the imagination affordable.

[TLOZ Link5]

Why? Is the stretch of the V and F lines that runs through the East Village/LES gentrified?

[Clarknt67]

Why? Is the stretch of the V and F lines that runs through the East Village/LES gentrified?

Sort of, I mean it follows houston for a while and little italy and the village about Houston and coming along.

My point just being poor access to the subway can keep property values down and lead to more affordable housing. Running a subway through alphabet city would definately lead to higher property values. (what do real estate ads always say? Sunny & near subways.)

[green22]

There are more reasons than poor planning and community opposition for the lack of stops on the latest proposal for the 2nd ave line. Remember that this line was origninally planned as a 6 track, then 4 track and now 2 track line, (meaning no express service). It will be the only major north south line in Manhattan which is only 2 tracks for the length of it's route.

The only reason that the line will not connect to the Bronx yet is because the MTA does not have the funds to build the connection. 16 billion for the proposed portion is already as much as it would be able to take on. However the long term plans for the 2nd ave subway are to take pressure and riders off the Lex and maybe other lines by giving direct connections to the Bronx. The most likely connection would be to go north and east from 125th street to connect in the south Bronx.

The long term connection may not be built for 20 to 40 years depending on future priorities. Once it is built however, in order to get passengers from the Bronx to take the train down 2nd avenue to Manhattan, instead of taking the express trains down Lexington, there will need to be a limited amount of stops along 2nd avenue.

In a better world the 2nd avenue line would live up to its full potential as a 4 track express line with plenty of local stops, (it is very tough to upgrade a line once it is built). Of course in a better world the federal government would be as interested in building transit infrastructure as it was in building the interstate network for cars or in military spending for fuel.

[Clarknt67]

There are more reasons than poor planning and community opposition for the lack of stops on the latest proposal for the 2nd ave line. Remember that this line was origninally planned as a 6 track, then 4 track and now 2 track line, (meaning no express service). It will be the only major north south line in Manhattan which is only 2 tracks for the length of it's route.

The only reason that the line will not connect to the Bronx yet is because the MTA does not have the funds to build the connection. 16 billion for the proposed portion is already as much as it would be able to take on. However the long term plans for the 2nd ave subway are to take pressure and riders off the Lex and maybe other lines by giving direct connections to the Bronx. The most likely connection would be to go north and east from 125th street to connect in the south Bronx.

In a better world the 2nd avenue line would live up to its full potential as a 4 track express line with plenty of local stops, (it is very tough to upgrade a line once it is built). Of course in a better world the federal government would be as interested in building transit infrastructure as it was in building the interstate network for cars or in military spending for fuel.

But even a 2 track subway would go a low way to relieving congestion on the 4/5/6 line, which is really the point of the 2nd ave. subway, yes?

I work freelance, but always dread when I take a job that requires me to take the 4 train. It's just so crowded as to be uncivilized. Somtimes I have to step back and let a train or two go by before one come in that I can actually get into.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I think green22's point is that the widely spaced stops are due to no separate express/local tracks. If the cars are going to fill up anyway, what is needed is maximum passenger movement, and the fewer stations, the more trains you can run.

Ironic, since one of the NYC subway innovations was four track routes.

[TonyO]

It sounds reasonable, practical, to keep this line simple. However the fact remains if they are going to go to the trouble of making that line - they should do it right. Why spend nearly 1 billion burying West Street for a few blocks? With that cash they could upgrade this project, or even provide the JFK rail link from the new main terminal downtown.

[TLOZ Link5]

They could dig an express tunnel on a lower level, I would think. Plus the line branches in two at 63rd Street.

[dchui]

It sounds reasonable, practical, to keep this line simple. However the fact remains if they are going to go to the trouble of making that line - they should do it right. Why spend nearly 1 billion burying West Street for a few blocks? With that cash they could upgrade this project, or even provide the JFK rail link from the new main terminal downtown.

It would cost a LOT more than $1 billion to make any significant upgrades to the current 2nd Ave subway plans or to bring a JFK link to Downtown.

[Clarknt67]

It sounds reasonable, practical, to keep this line simple. However the fact remains if they are going to go to the trouble of making that line - they should do it right. Why spend nearly 1 billion burying West Street for a few blocks? With that cash they could upgrade this project, or even provide the JFK rail link from the new main terminal downtown.

It would cost a LOT more than $1 billion to make any significant upgrades to the current 2nd Ave subway plans or to bring a JFK link to Downtown.

no offence, but I'm also not sure that it's useful to pit one community project against another. Granted there are limited munciple funds to finance them. But if you ask upper east side residents what's more important 2nd ave. subway or tunneling the west side highway? I'm sure you'd get a different answer than you'd get from Lower Manhattan residents.

It's the big picture that counts, and both projects have their merits as they relate to the evolution of New york City and they can be financed from different budgets.

[BrooklynRider]

[quote=dchui]... It's the big picture that counts, and both projects have their merits as they relate to the evolution of New york City and they can be financed from different budgets.

I agree with the "big picture" concept. However, I feel that the enhancement of public transit in NYC with a Second Avenue Subway, Extension of the 7 Train, Downtown and Midtown Access for the LIRR, and Direct Rail links to JFK and LaGuardia weakens an argument for a West Street Tunnel. We need to discourage and diminish car traffic in the city, not hide it. The best way to do it is to build effective public transit that counters the argument that "it is easier to drive there".

[Clarknt67]

[quote=dchui]... It's the big picture that counts, and both projects have their merits as they relate to the evolution of New york City and they can be financed from different budgets.

I agree with the "big picture" concept. However, I feel that the enhancement of public transit in NYC with a Second Avenue Subway, Extension of the 7 Train, Downtown and Midtown Access for the LIRR, and Direct Rail links to JFK and LaGuardia weakens an argument for a West Street Tunnel. We need to discourage and diminish car traffic in the city, not hide it. The best way to do it is to build effective public transit that counters the argument that "it is easier to drive there".

Agreed, but new york will always have car traffic. No amount of public transportation will convince some suburbanites to give up the car keys. Driving their own car is a lifestyle to these people just as taking the subway is for City folk. There will always be heavy traffic on the west side highway with people coming and going from monteclair, fort lee CT or wherever. It's just a fact of life. the tunnel would minimize their impact on the city.

[Ninjahedge]

One thing I have noticed, though, about the whole commuting thing that has me all pissed off.

There seems to be a hell of a lot of places where you can pick up a subway into the city. It is the biggest system in the WORLD for that. But a lot of the areas out in Brooklyn and Queens are not exactly right on top of these areas.

Agreed there are busses to take you over to the station, but that is a PITA and a waste of time.

What would be nice would be some way to drive to the nearest station (from a suburb in Queens or LI) and park there for less than it costs to adopt an ethiopian family of 12. If you want people to leave their cars OUT of the city, you have to make it easier for them to do so.

Build big state parking facilities at the express stops and try to re-engineer the schedules to get the people from where they are to where they want to be as fast as possible.

The quicker you get them there, the less people will be ON the system at one time, reducing congestion....

How to do this, i do not know, but there has to be a better way than this.

[Clarknt67]

It would be a really good idea to build massive parking lots (at least partially underground) in the outskirts of Queens and Brooklyn near major subway stops. commuters could pay a nominal fee for parking or I have an even better plan. If your metrocard shows you road the subway or bus in the city by the time you pick up your car in the evening, that would make your parking fee gratis. I bet we'd see a lot less cars in manhattan. Similar lots could be built in Bronx and near Jersey path trains.

[TLOZ Link5]

You mean like park and ride facilities?

[Ninjahedge]

Exactly like Park and Ride.

Hoboken has the same parking problem. But Hoboken is not the best place to ride in from anyway, being so close to both tunnels (the traffic gets really bad).

Jersey city is not much better.

I think an extension to the path system may be in order to try to get the people coming into the city focused in areas that have the capacity to get them in and out. Having a park and ride on the Parkway (Ironically enough) is probably better than having it right by the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel...

[Kris]

December 20, 2003

New Report Advocates Subway Line for East Side

By PAUL von ZIELBAUER

An influential regional planning group issued a study yesterday that focused on the economic benefits of building a Second Avenue subway line while criticizing another study, released last month, that played down the relative worth of building it.

Standing in front of City Hall yesterday morning, several prominent city, state and Congressional Democrats made it clear that they trusted the new study, by the Regional Plan Association, more than last month's more critical report by the Partnership for New York City, a group representing some of the city's largest employers.

"The partnership is a partnership with the wrong people if they're not with us," said Representative Charles B. Rangel of Harlem, long an advocate for a subway line that would connect part of his district with Chinatown. "I can't wait to have them at the next press conference to explain this misunderstanding."

Beside Representative Rangel were Sheldon Silver, the State Assembly speaker; Gifford Miller, the City Council speaker; and Representative Carolyn B. Maloney, whose district includes the Upper East Side.

In its November study, the partnership said a Second Avenue subway would take 17 years to build and cost nearly $2.7 billion more than the economic development benefits it would create. The study, completed for the partnership by independent consultants, advocated focusing on other large projects, like building a transit hub in Lower Manhattan, extending the No. 7 subway line or relocating Pennsylvania Station.

The Regional Plan Association's study disputed those findings. It said the subway project could be completed in 12 years, not 17, and would create 7 million square feet of commercial development, not the 3.5 million the partnership's study forecast. The association also calculated nearly $1.3 billion in saved time and productivity resulting from a less crowded Lexington Avenue subway line; the partnership estimated a $971 million savings.

"No other project will bring more people to the Lower East Side than the Second Avenue subway," Mr. Silver said yesterday, referring to his own Assembly district. "It's time to get on with it."

Kathryn S. Wylde, the partnership's president, acknowledged in an interview that it might make economic sense to build a part of the proposed subway line, but that other projects would create more development and help more people.

"It's great to advocate for these improvements," she said. "Somebody's got to figure out how to pay for them."

Referring to Mr. Rangel, Mr. Silver and the other Democrats who are against her group's recommendations, Ms. Wylde added: "They're making a political case for the Second Avenue subway. We're looking at the ridership of the future, which doesn't have a voice to speak for it."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

[Kris]

MTA To Build Second Avenue Subway In Stages, Rather Than All At Once

JANUARY 20TH, 2004

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority now says it could have part of the long-awaited Second Avenue subway up and running much earlier than expected.

MTA officials said Tuesday they have decided to build the line segment by segment, rather than building the entire line all at once.

The whole 8.5-mile line would ultimately run from 125th Street in East Harlem down to Hanover Square in Lower Manhattan. However, after meeting today with federal officials expected to provide much of the funding, MTA officials now say they'll start small.

They haven't decided yet which section will be built first.

“There may be at least two or three of them that can be done by 2012, so we don’t know which one of them is going to be the first one,” said Mysore Nagaraja of MTA Capital Construction.

An environmental impact study on the project is due by April, with construction set to begin before the end of the year.

The entire line is expected to cost $17 billion, and won't be complete until the year 2020.

http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentint id=36588#

[STT757]

Having a park and ride on the Parkway (Ironically enough)

There already is a park n ride on the Parkway, it's called Metro Park and it hosts Amtrak and NJ Transit trains.

Park n Rides are mainly for Commuter rail lines, rather than transit systems because transit systems are "too" close to the region's core.

[Ninjahedge]

I know, but where is there one in Forest Hills?

[DougGold]

I love New York City, and want to see this subway get done, but c'mon, $17 billion? Does anyone have any concept of what $17 billion dollars is? Is it really worth it to make life convenient for the people that live on the east side? How many people is that--a million? That's $17,000 of convenience per person! Just buy every one of them a Segway and we'll save a lot of money.

[TLOZ Link5]

Opponents of Houston's new light-rail service said the money spent to build it could have bought all potential users a Lexus :P


The idea of mass transit is to reduce traffic, not add to it by buying everyone their own motorized vehicle.

[dbhstockton]

Some people have no sense of perspective. Yes, you could buy everyone a Segway or a Lexus, as the case may be (regardless of traffic consequences), but how long would they last? 5-10 years tops, then you'll need to replace them. Not to mention the opportunity cost of letting high-density development --the most lucrative kind when it comes to tax revenue per infrastructure dollar-- continue to go to other municipalities. But I'll admit it's different on 2nd avenue because the high-density development is already there. I guess it'll allow even more.

It does boggle the mind, though, how expensive it is to build anything in Manhattan. It just doesn't seem right. Is it the unions? Red-tape? Plain-old corruption?

[Zoe]

The unions most definitely play a large role in why things cost so much in the city. Insurance, attorneys and other cover-your-a__ costs make up another large chunk of these incredible prices.

[STT757]

Digging underground in older Cities is VERY EXPENSIVE.

Just look at Boston's Central Artery (Big Dig) project, $14 Billion.

[TonyO]

If high costs were the dealbreaker for anything happening in Manhattan (or other large cities), everyone would live in the sticks. The subway hasn't expanded in years while the population has grown - its just natural that the subway needs to expand.

Parallel this with the 3rd water tunnel coming into the city. Its long-range planning that keeps things moving here.

[dbhstockton]

Digging underground in older Cities is VERY EXPENSIVE.

Just look at Boston's Central Artery (Big Dig) project, $14 Billion.

Yeah, but isn't the scope of the Big Dig many times greater than the 2nd ave. subway? It's a six-lane highway underground, correct?

[STT757]

Yeah, but isn't the scope of the Big Dig many times greater than the 2nd ave. subway? It's a six-lane highway underground, correct?

True the Big Dig project is much more complicated and had more features than the SAS, but it was also started 10+ years ago. The Second ave subway is yet to get a shovel in the ground yet, each year the project's costs go up.

[billyblancoNYC]

"The project spans 7.8 miles of highway" - http://www.bigdig.com/thtml/summary.htm

How long is the subway?

[TonyO]

"8.5 miles of new track along the length of Manhattan's East Side, from 125th Street to Hanover Square."

from

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mta/planning/sas/sas_alignment.htm

[BrooklynRider]

$17 Billion for NYC / $87 Billion for Iraq - I'll take our $17 Billion thank you.

The cost of not building it will exceed $17B in the same period.

[STT757]

The big dig is/was WAY more complicated than the SAS, first of all the Second ave Subway does not go under water. And second it's virtually a straight line for most of the line under Second Ave, with some segments already completed.

The Big dig includes the Ted Williams Tunnel to Logan Airport, and then a bridge to Charlestown.


http://www.bigdig.com/thtml/images/mainmap.gif

The SAS is costing more because they are taking their sweet time deciding whether to build it or not, they need to start constuction by next year or it's costs are really get to the point where the Feds will say no to providing any funding.

[TLOZ Link5]

If high costs were the dealbreaker for anything happening in Manhattan (or other large cities), everyone would live in the sticks. The subway hasn't expanded in years while the population has grown - its just natural that the subway needs to expand.

Parallel this with the 3rd water tunnel coming into the city. Its long-range planning that keeps things moving here.

That's not entirely true that the subway station hasn't been expanded in years. The most recent expansions was in 1988, when the E, J and Z (I think) were extended to Archer Avenue; and 1989, when the 63rd Street extension was finished. Of course, there was also the reopening of the Franklin Avenue subway in 1999, as well as the addition of the AirTrain.

BTW, I've said this before, but the SAS is going to be classified as the T Train if and when it is finished.

[Zoe]

The 63rd extension did not fully open up until 2001 when the F train was re-routed thru Queens to Roosevelt Island and then on to mid-town. That was the same time that the V train was introduced.

[ube]

I know this had been said before, and because of cost it would be ludicrous at this juncture, but lets big dig the FDR !!!!! :)

[Kris]

I know this had been said before, and because of cost it would be ludicrous at this juncture, but lets big dig the FDR !!!!! :)
Yeah! And the Gowanus! And the Cross-Bronx!

[Gulcrapek]

The Gowanus is being considered for tunneling...

[ZippyTheChimp]

Because they can't shut down the Gowanus and divert traffic to the streets, or build a new one parallel, a rebuild of the elevated would have to be constructed a lane at a time. A tunnel is being seriously considered because it may actually be cheaper and faster to build.

And it has community support.

Third Ave minus the Gowanus would be one of the widest streets in Brooklyn.

[Gulcrapek]

And maybe catalyze revitalization of the area, and I don't mean the Loews finishing up. It's more a degradation.

[TonyO]

That's not entirely true that the subway station hasn't been expanded in years. The most recent expansions was in 1988, when the E, J and Z (I think) were extended to Archer Avenue; and 1989, when the 63rd Street extension was finished. Of course, there was also the reopening of the Franklin Avenue subway in 1999, as well as the addition of the AirTrain.

Not anything major like the SAS. "Over the last 60 years, for a host of reasons, almost nothing significant has been done to expand the city's transit system."

from

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/25/nyregion/25TRAN.html

[TLOZ Link5]

So is there literally no hope for the subway to LaGuardia? :(

[tmg]

The Line That Time Forgot

They call the Second Avenue subway the greatest New York project never built. They may have to think of a new name.

By Greg Sargent

Beloved, believed in, glimpsed fleetingly only to disappear again for decades, the Second Avenue subway has long seemed to be New York City’s version of the Loch Ness monster. The plan has been on the drawing board since the year Babe Ruth hit his first home run for the Yankees—that is to say, since 1920, when it was envisioned as part of a massive subway expansion that brought us the IND, the trains that now run under Sixth and Eighth avenues. But the Second Avenue subway was derailed by the Great Depression, and despite a string of vigorous efforts, the plan just never got back on track.

That, however, may be about to change. The Second Avenue subway is surfacing again, and this time the vision of a new line just may finally be realized.

The project is suddenly enjoying a perfect storm of favorable circumstances. Peter Kalikow, the MTA’s chairman, is committed to expanding the system in a way not seen since—well, not since Babe Ruth hit his first home run for the Yankees. Some of the money is already secured: The MTA has a quarter of the $4 billion or so it needs to launch the first leg. Meanwhile, federal officials are bullish on the plan, partly as a result of lobbying by Kalikow, a major GOP fund-raiser, and many believe the federal government will soon commit to paying at least a third of the first portion’s price tag.

Finally, a big political obstacle has been removed: Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, whose district is on the Lower East Side, is telling colleagues that he’s ready to support the plan even if the MTA decides to begin uptown. “I am flexible on doing stages as long as there’s the understanding that we’ll ultimately do a full build,” he says.

Sure, hurdles remain—it has to clear a final environmental review, and state and federal officials have to actually come up with the money, not just talk about it. But with Silver and Kalikow squarely behind the project, and consensus emerging among pols and civic groups (the Straphangers Campaign, the Regional Plan Association) on how and where to start it, the Second Avenue subway may be closer to reality than at just about any time during its tortured 84-year history.

“We can really build it in our lifetime,” says Mysore Nagaraja, the MTA’s chief engineer charged with overseeing construction. Nagaraja, a slight, bespectacled man with the calming presence of a pediatrician, often hears colleagues joke that he should take a long look at the sun now, because he may spend the next decade or so underground. “You may have a dream, but is it realistic?” Nagaraja wonders aloud. “This is realistic. It’s really buildable.”

With luck, and a last-minute burst of political will, the MTA could break ground as early as next year on the biggest subway expansion in 60 years.

If you want to know why the dream of a Second Avenue subway line has endured, take a ride on the 4 train at 8:30 a.m. on a workday. If MTA rush-hour stats are to be believed, you’ll be sharing a train car with around 180 commuters. While on the West Side there are two and sometimes more lines, on the East Side, the Lexington Avenue line has borne the burden alone since the Third Avenue El came down in the mid-fifties. On any given weekday, the Lex carries 1.5 million passengers, more daily riders than the metro systems in Washington, D.C., Boston, and Chicago—combined.

The Second Avenue subway would change that. The northern terminus would be at 125th Street and Lexington Avenue, allowing proximity to Metro-North, with its connections to Westchester. After traveling down Second Avenue, the line would fork at 65th Street. One line would curve west, to the F-train station at 63rd and Lexington, where it would join an already built tunnel linking to the Broadway N and R lines. The main stem, meanwhile, would continue down Second Avenue to the financial district. The cost of the entire project (which wouldn’t be complete till 2020) would be more than $17 billion, requiring construction of 16 new stations, as well as 28 sophisticated new trains that can travel closer together, thus easing congestion even further.

The MTA wants to build the line—which would ultimately be 8.5 miles long—in small, financially realistic stages. Although the MTA is considering other options, the first portion would likely start at 96th down to the 63rd Street station, where it would join the rest of the system.

The first leg will likely require the drilling of a shaft some seven stories deep into Manhattan at 96th Street and Second Avenue. Then a monstrous tunnel-boring machine—nicknamed “the Mole” by tunnel pros—would be lowered to the bottom. The Mole will inch forward, its spinning blades dislodging chunks of prehistoric bedrock—1.5 million cubic yards of it in phase one—after which the tunnel will be shored up with concrete lining.

The Mole is a technological breakthrough. It enables tunneling to go on far beneath the surface with little impact aboveground, unlike the old “cut and cover” technique, which tore up streets. “We can tunnel without disturbing buildings,” says Nagaraja. “People in the buildings won’t even feel it.”

That’s not to say there won’t be any serious disruptions. The drilling of the shaft would close a lane or two on Second Avenue in the Nineties. And then there are the new stations, which would be built inside existing buildings—not on sidewalks—meaning major problems for those who live or work in those structures. Whole shops are likely to vanish. You might want to drop by for a last look at the Food Emporium supermarket at 86th Street, or the Falk Drug and Surgical Supply store, at 72nd. They’ll likely be gone in a few years, condemned and replaced by state-of-the-art subway entrances. “It’s not a good feeling to think you have to leave the place you’ve been in for 50 years,” says Perry Falk, the drugstore owner. “This has been our home forever.”

And yet there appears to be little organized resistance thus far. “The subway is something that the overwhelming majority of East Siders want,” says Charles Warren, chairman of the Upper East Side’s Community Board 8. “The opposition we’ve seen so far is really to the location of stations, not to the project as a whole.”

The slow, fitful progress of the Second Avenue subway began on an early spring afternoon in 1925, in a park in Harlem, when New York’s mayor, a pasty-faced pol named John Hylan, raised a silver pickax above his head and plunged it into the sod beneath his feet.

He was breaking ground on phase one of a massive new IND subway system that would allow the city to tear down those nineteenth-century relics—elevated tracks—that blocked out sunlight from Manhattan’s major thoroughfares. The Second Avenue line would be phase two of this grand expansion.

Hylan hoped that his swing of the pickax would strike a great blow on behalf of the city’s people against their oppressors: the private companies that ran the IRT and what would become the BMT. Hylan called them “grasping transportation monopolies,” because they refused to risk profits expanding into new residential frontiers. The IND—the first municipally owned line—would challenge their hegemony.

Phase one was built during the mid-thirties, but cost overruns and the Great Depression postponed phase two. In 1941, the hated Second Avenue El was torn down, leading residents of Yorkville to parade in the streets. A new underground line couldn’t be far behind, it seemed—but World War II suspended all construction.

The Second Avenue subway landed on the front page of the Times in 1950 when Democrat Ferdinand Pecora made it an issue in his mayoral run. He lost, but subway overcrowding remained a popular fixation, and a year later, New Yorkers approved $500 million in government bonds for the project. Officials quietly spent most of the half-billion dollars on repairs. When news leaked that the money was gone and there was still no subway, a furor erupted. “It is highly improbable that the Second Avenue subway will ever materialize,” the Times lamented.

A decade later, with conditions on the Lex already intolerable, two men relaunched the project: Nelson Rockefeller and MTA chairman William Ronan, a self-styled Moses-like master builder. In 1972, Rockefeller, Ronan, Mayor John Lindsay, and a young congressman named Ed Koch journeyed to 102nd Street to break ground.

As reporters scribbled, Lindsay drily noted that in the twenties, “some people suggested a transit facility along Second Avenue. And it was such a good idea that I decided to follow up on it immediately.” The pols took their swings with a pickax—but in an uncanny piece of symbolism, none could dent the pavement. A worker with a power rig was called in to break the concrete.

To be sure, workers did build three segments of tunnel—between 99th and 105th streets, between 110th and 120th, and another downtown. But then the seventies fiscal crisis shelved the project yet again, and by the eighties, the MTA was running newspaper ads offering to rent the tunnels to private companies. “I remember being asked by a magazine, ‘What should we do with the excavations?’ ” Koch says. “I proposed growing mushrooms in them. Mushrooms need a dark interior.”

This legacy of failure has meant that New York, a city that prizes all things new and current, has a transit system that was last expanded around the time Paris fell to the Nazis. “The list of new mass-transit projects built in other world cities in recent decades is incredible,” says New York subway historian Clifton Hood. “But here, we’re still riding around on a system built by our great-grandparents.”

For the first time since Rockefeller and Ronan, the Second Avenue subway has two powerful patrons on the state level: Assembly Speaker Silver and MTA chairman Kalikow, a real-estate magnate who’s spent a career building big projects.

Silver has been widely hailed as a Second Avenue subway hero since 1999, the last time the MTA passed a five-year capital plan, when he threatened to block a host of big state projects unless funds for the line were included. The MTA put $1 billion in its budget—a substantial sum still waiting to be spent. Silver’s leverage is again at a maximum, because the MTA this winter will pass its next five-year plan, and Governor George Pataki wants to please his suburban base by funding East Side Access, a tunnel linking the LIRR to Grand Central Terminal. That gives Silver a chance to play let’s-make-a-deal with Pataki and, if necessary, do what he did last time: hold up other big projects—like East Side Access—to win another burst of state funds.

Kalikow, meanwhile, is the first MTA chairman in a generation who badly wants the project to happen; his recent predecessors were too busy rescuing the system from crime, graffiti, decay, and declining ridership. He has been aggressively lobbying (and throwing private fund-raisers for) U.S. senators like Richard Shelby and Patty Murray, who wield influence over transportation funds. Kalikow is engaged in other intricate behind-the-scenes politicking: He’s told colleagues that he may try to use $600 million in funds already earmarked for a train to La Guardia airport (a plan with an uncertain future) for the Second Avenue subway. That may lead to a clash with City Hall, which is likely to want the cash for extending the 7 line west.

There are reasons to be optimistic about the Feds. In a barely noticed development in February, the Federal Transit Administration put the plan on its short list of projects being considered for funding. That’s a big deal, because FTA money comes from a pot of federal dough separate from funds overseen by Republicans who are trying to rejigger transit funding to shaft the city. FTA bucks are less captive to partisan wrangling and actually tend to be doled out to projects based on the merits. The FTA likes the Second Avenue subway because it would serve more than 500,000 and has broad support among New York pols.

Kalikow vows that FTA funds are all but secured for the first leg. “I’m completely confident we will have funding from the federal government by the end of the year,” Kalikow says. If the FTA chips in at least $1.2 billion, and Silver secures another $1 billion, the MTA, with $1 billion already on hand, will be in striking distance.

“If the stars aren’t already aligned right now, they’re pretty damn close,” says Elliot Sander, a senior VP at DMJM+Harris, which would help build the first part.

The Second Avenue subway has its share of high-powered skeptics, to be sure. Michael Bloomberg, for instance, seems far more interested in the 7 line. And the Partnership for New York City, a group of 200 top CEOs, recently slammed the plan, arguing that the new line’s economic benefits didn’t justify its enormous cost.

“Outside of another politically untenable fare increase,” says Partnership CEO Kathryn Wylde, “the business community does not see where the money will come from to pay for the state’s share of projects such as the Second Avenue subway.”

Silver and Kalikow beg to differ.

The Second Avenue subway would alter life in East Side neighborhoods from Harlem down to Alphabet City. Residents would, for the first time, be spared the notorious trek to the Lex line that is known to real-estate brokers as “the walk.” As Regional Plan Association president Robert Yaro points out, the new subway would also grow the so-called hospital corridor—the big medical institutions along Second Avenue in the Twenties that are driving the city’s health-care industry.

It would transform the real-estate market. Pamela Liebman, CEO of the Corcoran Group, predicts it would produce an immediate jump of at least 10 percent in the value of apartments east of Second Avenue from the Nineties down to the Lower East Side. “It would open up the possibility of more luxury housing east of Second Avenue,” Liebman says. “It would stimulate commercial development the whole length of Second Avenue, bringing in a whole new wave of support services.”

Subway construction has often brought gentrification in its wake—the Sixth Avenue line sparked the long-term transformation of a low-slung working-class neighborhood into a wall of office towers—and the Second Avenue line would offer its own twist on the phenomenon. It would further inflate land values in upper-class Manhattan neighborhoods (notwithstanding the grumbling you occasionally hear in the luxe enclave of East End Avenue that the new line would bring in the sort of people current residents moved there to get away from). While some might find themselves priced out of Manhattan as a result, the new line could also stimulate economic development in low-income neighborhoods like Harlem and spur economic expansion in ways that, in the long run, might lift the whole city.

Just as the subways built from 1900 to 1940 shaped the city’s growth through the twentieth century, so a Second Avenue line built now, at the outset of the 21st, could help drive the city’s growth for the next hundred years. The city’s future could hinge on its ability to move people into its ever-expanding business district, and eventually, the Second Avenue line could even revert to its original purpose: a trunk line for a whole new train system. Some planners, thinking deep into the future, envision it as a jumping-off point for subways into neighborhoods in the eastern Bronx and possibly in central Brooklyn—the neighborhoods that could absorb the workforce of the future.

One person who’s thrilled by that prospect is Nagaraja, who’s looking to earn his place in the pantheon of great subway builders. At a celebration of the subway’s centennial, he found himself entranced by a large picture of William Parsons, builder of the first subway line. “One of the people who was with me commented that when they celebrate 200 years of subways, instead of Parsons’s picture, there will be your picture,” Nagaraja says, without a trace of irony. “I feel very proud of that.”

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/features/n_10109//index.html

[Clarknt67]

The Second Avenue subway is surfacing again

Wouldn't that make it an El? :wink:

[Kris]

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com

2nd Ave. stubway for now

By PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Sunday, April 11th, 2004

Transportation honchos plan to kick off the Second Ave. subway with a miniline that runs from 96th to 72nd Sts. and then shoots over to Broadway to bring passengers downtown, the Daily News has learned.

The project could be ready in as few as seven years.

"It makes the most sense," Metropolitan Transportation Authority Chairman Peter Kalikow told the Daily News. "When you are done with that, you have an operating segment that ties into other lines and gives great service over to Times Square and downtown."

Construction could start late this year on the first leg of the long-awaited project.

New stations would be built along Second Ave. at 96th, 86th and 72nd Sts. The line would then curve west - stopping at the 63rd St. and Lexington Ave. F line station, then run downtown along the existing Broadway tunnel.

The plan is included in documents submitted to the Federal Transit Administration. The proposal is expected to be released in the coming weeks, when the public can comment.

Officials have told the MTA it would be easier to get federal cash if the agency built the Second Ave. subway in segments so at least some service will be up and running.

The first segment would attract about 200,000 daily riders and bring much-needed relief to the overcrowded Lexington Ave. line, officials have said.

The next three segments would extend the line from 125th St. to Hanover Square. The entire project will cost about $17 billion and be completed around 2020.

The first part of the project will make life more difficult along the avenue before it makes it better.

There will be lane closures, construction noise and truck traffic. Some businesses and residents will be displaced, either temporarily or permanently, as station entrances would be inside buildings instead of on sidewalks.

"It's going to be a headache with the noise and people running around doing construction," said Philip Roman, an optician at E. 72nd St. and Second Ave.

There is a lot of uncertainty along the avenue, said Francesca Macaraaron, manager of Penang Restaurant at Second Ave. and E. 83rd St., which has an outdoor cafe.

"We may lose a whole season of the cafe and quite possibly the entire restaurant," Macaraaron said. "Quite frankly, we are concerned."

But Charles Warren, an area resident and Community Board 8 chairman, said, in general, the board and many East Siders believe the new line is desperately needed and, after some pain, will benefit the entire city.

[Kris]

April 27, 2004

M.T.A. Expected to Ask for Proposals to Build First Stage of 2nd Ave. Subway

By MICHAEL LUO

The long-awaited Second Avenue subway is expected to clear another important milestone tomorrow, when the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board approves the issuance of a request for proposals for building the project's first segment, from 96th Street to 63rd Street.

The approval would pave the way for a contractor to start work by December, although financing for the project has still not been finalized.

It is the financing - $3.8 billion for the first phase alone, and $16.8 billion for the project's full length, from East Harlem to Lower Manhattan - that supporters have been fretting over. An array of major transit projects are vying right now for limited city, state and federal funds. Their fates will be largely decided in the coming year, after state lawmakers approve the transportation authority's next capital program and the federal government weighs in how much money it will contribute.

But if the transportation authority wants to stay on schedule - officials are hoping to have the first phase ready for riders by 2011 - the board needs to approve the issuing of the request for proposals at its monthly meeting tomorrow, Mysore Nagaraja, president of the authority's Capital Construction Company, told a group of board members during a meeting of the board's Capital Construction Committee yesterday before the committee approved the issuance of the request. It now heads to the full board for its approval, usually a formality.

The Federal Transit Administration, which evaluates mass transit construction projects, is expected to announce its full support for the project next month with what is known as a record of decision, essentially the green light for a construction project to begin securing federal financing. Once that happens, transit officials said, the request for proposals can be sent out immediately.

The awarding of the contract, however, will be contingent on the transportation authority's lining up the financing it needs.

The planning phase of the project is essentially over, William M. Wheeler, the director of special project development and planning at the M.T.A., said yesterday. The Federal Transit Administration signed off earlier this month on the authority's final environment impact statement, which outlines plans for four construction phases over 16 years. The next step is to actually begin designing and building the first segment.

If completed, the Second Avenue subway, expected to carry 560,000 riders a day, would offer two lines of service, one down Second Avenue from 125th Street to Hanover Square, and the other connecting to the F line at 63rd Street, continuing on to the Broadway lines and eventually to Brooklyn.

Planners selected the 63rd-to-96th Street segment to be built first because it would benefit the most riders right away - 202,000 the day the line opens, Mr. Nagaraja said. The section of the Lexington Avenue line from 86th Street to Grand Central Terminal is the most overburdened right now. The first phase of the Second Avenue line would include new stations at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets, and a connector to the 63rd Street station on the F line. It would also tie into the existing track for the Q line and allow a ride on to Brooklyn without having to change trains.

Building this section first would also allow the transportation authority to take advantage of tunnel segments for the Second Avenue subway that were built in the 1970's between 96th and 105th Streets, only to see their financing dry up. Those sections are in good condition, Mr. Nagaraja said, and would be used by the transportation authority to store trains at the northern end of the line.

Of the $3.8 billion needed for the first phase, $1.05 billion has already been allocated as part of the transportation authority's 2000-04 capital plan, and the federal government has committed $9 million. The remaining $2.8 billion, however, will have to come from the next capital program and the federal government. The draft of the next capital program will not be available until July and must then go to Albany in October for approval.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

[billyblancoNYC]

NY Post...

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/23365.htm

April 27, 2004 -- Here's a sneak peek at what the Second Avenue subway will look like as the dream finally gets on track to becoming a reality.
The new T line will feature sleek, brightly lit stations equipped with climate-control ventilation and built with no columns along the platform, officials said yesterday.

"These will be 21st century stations," said Mysore Nagaraja, president of the MTA's Capital Construction Co. "There will be no columns, which will provide for better circulation of riders" on and off trains.

The two-track line will be built in "four phases" starting with a stretch along the Upper East Side that will allow for direct trips to Brooklyn.

The first phase of the 8.5-mile line will start at 96th Street - with stops at 86th, 72nd and 63rd streets - and veer west to 63rd Street/Lexington Avenue, where it will connect to the existing Broadway line.

The opening segment will ease overcrowding on the 4, 5 and 6 Lexington Avenue lines and attract an estimated 202,000 daily riders.

"The first section that we build will serve the most riders," Nagaraja said. "When we build this project, the people will already be there."

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority said construction would start at the end of this year.

The full-length line, which will run from 125th Street in East Harlem to Hanover Square in lower Manhattan, will cost $16.8 billion and is slated for completion by 2020.

The second segment - running from 125th Street to 96th Street - will use existing tunnels that were closed during the 1970s after financial problems forced the city to halt the project.

The third leg will run from 63rd Street to Houston Street, and the final piece will run from Houston Street to Hanover Square.

The line will also offer connections to the Lexington Avenue line at 125th Street and 42nd Street/Grand Central Station, the L at 14th Street and the B and D at Grand Street.

The Federal Transit Administration recommended the line be built in stages to make it easier for the MTA to secure funds for the project and enable riders to benefit from it as soon as possible.

The opening segment will cost $3.8 billion. The MTA has secured $1.8 billion so far from the state and federal government and hopes to get the rest by year's end.

[TonyO]

Looks like DC's stations...very nice. 2011 seems so far off but this is an exciting project. Too bad there will be no express line but us on the east side will be very happy when it finally gets built.

[Clarknt67]

Definately very good news.

I'm wondering what the reasoning is for not slating the 96-125th streets to run until Phase 2? If the tunnels are already there, as the article states, it seems like the hard part is done. They should lay the track and let the gentrification of East Harlem pick up speed. It could help slow the escalation of Manhattan real estate prices

It also seems TPTB are leaving themselves open to cries of racism (or classism), by making the streets above 96 st a "second priority."

[Deimos]

They're only building 4 stops from 96th to 63rd St: 96, 86, 72, 63. Extending the line up to 125 will add stops at 106, 116 and 125. By splitting the line here, they are simply halving the initial construction costs, and attacking the line at the area where it's needed most first.

I'm wondering what the reasoning is for not slating the 96-125th streets to run until Phase 2?

[ZippyTheChimp]

The 125 to 96 st segment only has connecting service at the northern end. The majority of morning commuters will be travelling south, and there will nothing to transfer to at 96 st.

The 96 to 63 st segment has connections at the southern end to existing subway service.

[Kris]

April 29, 2004

METRO MATTERS

A Subway Line Is Suddenly a Bandwagon

By JOYCE PURNICK

IT took the board of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority about 65 seconds yesterday, give or take, to approve the latest step toward construction of the Second Avenue subway, a project around so long (bonds were first floated to pay for it in 1951) that it has become an urban legend.

"It's the most famous thing that's never been built in New York City,'' said Gene Russianoff, the staff lawyer at the Straphangers Campaign, an advocacy group for transit riders.

Now even skeptics are saying maybe this time, it will be built, at least a part of it. It's a hot topic, along with the East Side Access project, which would carry Long Island Rail Road passengers into Grand Central Terminal, as well as Pennsylvania Station on the West Side.

The transportation authority, whose officials have been known to be publicity-shy, has all but invited publicity on both projects. The fact that its board unanimously agreed yesterday to issue requests for proposals for building the first segment of the Second Avenue subway, from 96th to 63rd Streets, is only the latest indication of the project's exalted status.

Why the new push, beyond a desire to relieve crowding on the Lexington Avenue subway line? Politics, money and strategies to deal with the realities of both.

The M.T.A. is about to have a fiscal problem - big bills for maintenance and expansion, with limited sources of income unless the authority raises the base fare again, which is considered a political black hole. At the same time, it can only borrow so much because it is carrying a debt so large that just under 25 percent of its operational costs goes to debt payments.

What to do? Build a rationale and a constituency for more resources. That is clearly what the authority's leaders are up to, championing the two expansions not only on their merits, but also to focus attention. New York is seeing an updated version of the campaign Richard Ravitch mounted when, as the authority's chairman in the 1980's, he mobilized support for dedicated taxes and other charges that saved a badly deteriorated subway system.

Today it is a matter of maintenance and expansion. "It's a slightly bigger challenge because the system isn't breaking down, it isn't at a critical point, but this is critical too,'' said Katherine N. Lapp, the authority's executive director. "We need to make our needs known. It's up to elected officials to figure out how to provide those needs, whether through dedicated taxes or other sources.''

THE two projects - the Second Avenue subway and East Side Access plan - account for only about a quarter of those needs, but they crystallize the problem of uncertain financing. Peter S. Kalikow, the authority's chairman, says he is counting on the federal government to pay for half of the first phase of the Second Avenue subway, a seven-year, $3.8 billion project. Another $1 billion would come from the authority's current capital budget, and $1 billion from its next capital budget.

Mr. Kalikow is also expecting another $3 billion in federal transportation money for the $6.3 billion East Side Access project. That would be a total of $4.9 billion from the transportation bill that's now pending in Washington - the "New Starts" program, which is likely to amount to about $8 billion over six years, for the entire country.

New York could get a substantial piece of the total, but not as much as Mr. Kalikow predicts, some lawmakers said yesterday. That means the authority will need plenty of money from home, and not only for those projects. "We need to have a $20 billion capital plan, at a minimum, of which $15 billion will be for purchase of new cars and system upgrades, $5 billion for expansion,'' Mr. Kalikow said yesterday. "Letting the system slide is not an option. We expect the states, cities and counties we serve to be real, no-fooling-around partners.''

One of those partners is the powerful Democratic Assembly speaker, Sheldon Silver. The shape of the authority's next capital budget is decided in Albany. Mr. Silver, who represents the Lower East Side, is a big fan of the Second Avenue subway, which he sees as some day benefiting his constituents. He is another reason for the sudden attention on construction of that subway line. It is a bargaining chip.

Mr. Kalikow predicts that construction on the first leg of the fabled Second Avenue subway could begin in December. Maybe it really will, given its political utility.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

[NYguy]

Daily News...

Evictions down the line with 2nd Ave. subway

By PETE DONOHUE

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/387-2ndave.JPG
Costa Giorgio fears losing apartment he's lived in for 32 years.

Not everyone is a fan of the Second Ave. subway.

Nearly 400 people who live in the intended path of the East Side line are just now discovering they may lose their homes to the wrecking ball.

"I'm shaking. I'm scared," said Giorgio Costa, a cook who has lived at the corner of 69th St. and Second Ave. for more than 30 years and recently learned his building is doomed.

"What am I going to do?" Costa asked.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority plans to knock down about 30 apartment buildings, many with rent-controlled and rent-stabilized units, to build station entrances, ventilation shafts and other parts of the mega-project, according to a recently released MTA report.

Eleanor Gorczycki, who lives near Costa, has lost about 40 pounds since last summer worrying about her future.

"This is my home," said Gorczycki, a 66-year-old retired businesswoman. "It's where my friends are. This is where my doctors are. I don't want to move ... and I can't afford an apartment that is market rate."

The study says the agency will follow federal law and help an estimated 372 tenants who will be displaced - including finding apartments for them that are comparable in size and cost.

But the study also notes that it "may be difficult, if not impossible" to find comparable rent-controlled or rent-stabilized apartments "because of the relative shortage of such available units in N.Y.C."

The MTA may have to hand out cash to the evicted tenants, the study says.

"It's really very tough and very scary," said Gorczycki. "I just don't know what is going to happen."

A longtime dream of subway riders and urban planners, the new line will stretch from 125th St. to the southern tip of Manhattan.

Construction on the first phase - including stations at 96th, 86th and 72nd Sts. - is set to begin this year and wrap up in 2011.

Relocation of residents in the first stage is at least a year away, MTA spokesman Tom Kelly said.

"Each case will be taken on an individual basis, and we will make every effort to accommodate everyone's needs, keeping in mind the public benefits for hundreds of thousands of our customers whose lives this project will make easier," Kelly added.

"As the plan has been fine-tuned, we have gone from a much higher number of displacements to a smaller number, and we hope that it will get even smaller."

Property acquisitions also will take space now used by about 80 businesses employing more than 500 workers.

[TonyO]

This from the announcement of a new tunnel for LIRR access to JFK.

"The boring of this tunnel will create the capacity to extend additional rail lines - such as the Second Avenue subway and existing services such as the E train - across the East River from their endpoints in Lower Manhattan to Brooklyn and beyond," Mr. Pataki said.

Already being considered for expansion into Brooklyn. Maybe the Bronx end will be next?

[TLOZ Link5]

I feel bad for people who will lose their homes, but this project is a necessity—very badly needed. The next thing that needs to be done is to have an actual, official regional plan for the region.

[Kris]

http://rpa.org/projects/transportation/metrolink.html

[BrooklynRider]

This 2nd Ave Subway / JFK Link, Hudson River Park and Brooklyn Waterfront Park / Queens Watefrfront Development are the most exciting and beneficial projects the city can pursue on behalf of its citizens.

[Kris]

May 16, 2004

NEW YORK TRANSIT/EAST SIDE

A Not-Yet Train With a Quite Real Name

By JEFF VANDAM

This much is true: If the Second Avenue subway is ever built, number-loving East Siders may be disappointed.

In artists' renderings and on official-looking maps, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has already designated a label for the perennially unfinished line, which has a few tunnels dug for it, though construction was halted in 1975 for lack of funds: the letter T. Though the color of the circle behind it varies from sky blue to lime green, the question is whether the M.T.A. has officially named the line.

"Well, no, that was for planning purposes," said John McCarthy, an M.T.A. spokesman, when asked whether T was the letter of choice. "I don't think that's a decision that's been made."

Still, the line will definitely bear a letter, he said. The new subway will fall under the "B Division," containing all lettered lines, which have wider cars than their numbered counterparts.

Yet a letter-only policy leaves few viable options. Of the nine letters not currently in use, T may seem an obvious choice, until you consider that the Boston subway system is already called that. The I? Well, people might confuse it with the 1. The X?

"X isn't a letter that I would want to use," said Charles Seaton, a spokesman for New York City Transit, a division of the M.T.A. "The X Train," he said, testing it out. "I don't know. We use Z already."

They used T already too, in the 1960's. It was called the West End line, and traveled express along the modern-day D route.

Until 1985, there were several double-lettered local trains, like the HH, the JJ and even the TT. But then, Mr. Seaton said, "somebody got the idea that the trains would be easier to keep track of if they just gave every train its own letter."

For the time being, the letter T should stick. Subway planners chose it because "it's an unused letter, and it doesn't sound like anything else," Mr. Seaton said.

Others have already turned their thoughts away from what to call the line.

"I don't spend my time daydreaming about the T or the X," said Gene Russianoff of the Straphangers Campaign. "I find myself thinking, 'How do they get the money to make this thing happen?' "

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

[krulltime]

2ND AVE. SUBWAY WILL WIPE OUT SIDEWALK CAFES


By CLEMENTE LISI
June 30, 2004

Eating outdoors along part of the Upper East Side could be a thing of the past, as portions of sidewalks will be taken over to make room for the construction of the Second Avenue subway, officials said yesterday.

The MTA board will approve a measure today allowing it to start the process of attaining temporary control of 20 spots currently occupied by sidewalk cafes, bike racks, planters and cellars to make room for construction equipment.

"Seems like I can't do anything about it at this point," said Alexander Moon, 58, who owns Bagel Express on 93rd Street and Second Avenue, which has an outdoor seating area. "People like to sit outside."

The spaces could be off limits for as long as five years once construction of the new 8.5-mile line begins in December.

"We will need the space during the construction phase," said MTA spokesman Tom Kelly.

The agency will negotiate with the owners, but said it would use the state's eminent-domain law to evict them.

Owners were upset about losing sidewalk space and having to deal with nearby construction.

"It's a huge part of our business," said Steve Galanis, who owns Cinema Café on Second Avenue at the corner of 70th Street. "People may not want to go inside . . . with work going on outside."

Dozens of other businesses could be permanently taken over down the line as tunneling work proceeds and stations are built.

The Post reported last month that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority had sent letters to business owners telling them their properties could be taken over to make way for the $16.8 billion line.


Copyright 2004 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[NYatKNIGHT]

That's the obvious downside of large construction projects. Still, five years sounds a little long for any one spot to be disrupted. It will definitely have an impact; few avenues in the city are more lively than 2nd Avenue, with restaurants and bars practically the whole length.

[TonyO]

New York Daily News

Eying 20B fixup down tracks

BY PETE DONOHUE
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Friday, July 9th, 2004

Transit officials will propose a record-high capital program of at least $20 billion, with big bucks going to system expansion projects like the Second Ave. subway, the Daily News has learned.

But the core of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's five-year program, which will be unveiled at month's end, will be on nuts-and-bolts items to keep the system reliable, transit officials told The News.

That involves everything from track replacement, signal upgrades and station rehabs to new subways, buses and commuter rail cars.

That's critical, said Gene Russianoff of the Straphangers Campaign, who predicted the plan would come in several billion dollars higher.

"It determines whether you are on a train where the air-conditioning works, that doesn't break down ... and whether you get off at a station that looks decent as opposed to a chamber of horrors," Russianoff said.

Several hundred million dollars in additional funds for securing the system against terrorist attacks also will be in the plan, officials said.

A pet project of former Mayor Rudy Giuliani, extending subway service to LaGuardia Airport, is being scrapped, freeing up some $600 million for other options.

The MTA's current capital program, when first proposed in 1999, was $17.5 billion. It grew to about $19 billion with amendments to increase spending for security and planned projects that emerged after the 2001 terrorist attack - including the Fulton Transit Center and new South Ferry subway station, both of which are to be fully funded by the feds.

How the program will be funded is still to be worked out. The state Legislature, which officials hope will provide a new revenue source, such as a dedicated tax, is not in session. Transit advocates want the state and the city, which have reduced their contributions over the years, to step up their commitment.

The current plan relies heavily on borrowing through bond sales.

[krulltime]

CO-OP FIGHTS MTA PLAN FOR NEW STATION


July 14, 2004

A posh Upper East Side building has hired architects to counter the MTA's plans to take over part of their property to house a Second Avenue subway entrance, The Post has learned.

The tenants of 301 E. 69th St. have come up with "other options" to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's plan to partially condemn their building.

The MTA plans to take over the northeast corner of East 69th Street and Second Avenue.

When complaints to the MTA fell on deaf ears, the co-op's board hired Ross and Bertolini architects to draw up other plans.

They have proposed placing an entrance on the southwest or northwest corner instead.

Clemente Lisi


Copyright 2004 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[Clarknt67]

CO-OP FIGHTS MTA PLAN FOR NEW STATION
They have proposed placing an entrance on the southwest or northwest corner instead.

Do you supposed this solution is preferable to tenants and homeowners of the SW & NW corners?

It's funny to me how often people consider public policy and works with only the myopic viewpoint of how it affects them personally.

[Kris]

The built tunnel:

http://www.satanslaundromat.com/sl/archives/000367.html
http://www.satanslaundromat.com/sl/archives/000368.html

[TonyO]

NYTimes

December 21, 2004

Budget Pressures Put New Subway at Risk, M.T.A. Leader Says

By SEWELL CHAN

The chairman of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority said today that he would be willing to jettison ambitious expansion projects, like the Second Avenue subway, if it were necessary to save the agency's five-year, $17.2 billion core capital program for maintaining the existing transit system.

The chairman, Peter S. Kalikow, said he hoped that state legislators and Gov. George E. Pataki would realize the need to maintain the current system as well as pay for expansion projects, including the new subway line and a link between the Long Island Rail Road and Grand Central Terminal, but acknowledged that that might be impossible.

In an interview with reporters at the authority's Midtown headquarters, Mr. Kalikow made clear that his top priority would be to keep the city's subways, buses and commuter rails in good condition - particularly if state leaders refuse to raise taxes and fees to support the authority.

"I'm O.K. with that, $17 billion for the state of good repair," Mr. Kalikow said. "I'll accept that. I think they're wrong. I think it's foolhardy and shortsighted, but I would accept that."

The comments by Mr. Kalikow, who has been chairman since 2001, were a striking acknowledgment of the political realities facing the authority, which is asking Albany for new revenue to fill a $16 billion gap in the authority's next capital plan. And it also reflected a new level of brinkmanship between the M.T.A. chairman, who has been pressing for more state help for the system, and the governor, who controls the M.T.A. and who appointed Mr. Kalikow.

Mr. Pataki has declared his support for various capital plans, including a rail link that would connect Kennedy International Airport with Lower Manhattan, but neither the governor nor the leaders of the Legislature have gone along with a package of tax increases that Mr. Kalikow proposed. Paying for capital projects like the Second Avenue subway, an airport rail link and the Grand Central Terminal connection to Long Island would add nearly $11 billion to the capital plan.

Mr. Kalikow's comments were the latest twist in the tortured history of the Second Avenue subway, a dream of urban planners since the same avenue's elevated line was demolished in 1942. Construction on the line was abandoned during the city's fiscal crisis of the mid-1970's.

To pay for the authority's capital needs, Mr. Kalikow has proposed tax increases that would provide the authority with about $850 million a year, enough to pay annual debt service on new bonds that would be issued to fill the capital financing gap. But the state would have to authorize those tax increases.

The authority's current five-year capital plan expires next week, on Dec. 31. The proposed plan for 2005 to 2009, totaling $27.7 billion, is now before the Capital Program Review Board, a panel that includes representatives of the governor, the heads of the two chambers of the Legislature and the mayor of New York City.

Mr. Kalikow has warned that the next year may be similar to 1975, when a fiscal crisis forced the authority to halt spending on basic maintenance. The system hit its nadir years later, in the winter of 1980-81, when service was delayed or eliminated altogether because of widespread equipment failures.

"If we don't have the full $17 billion core program, you can write down: 2005 is the day the system reached its zenith, and is now starting its descent," Mr. Kalikow said.

The person given the most credit for the system's recovery is Richard Ravitch, the authority's charismatic chairman from 1979 to 1983, who persuaded Gov. Hugh L. Carey and state lawmakers to pay for a general revitalization of the system.

"Everybody in government in the early 80's had lived through the 70's and knew how really bad it was," recalled Mr. Kalikow, who is 62. "Our problem is that there's a whole generation of New Yorkers that has now grown up and used the system that don't remember when it was horrible."

He said that raising taxes, as the state faces major increases in education and health care spending, would require political will.

"We need to remember that the leaders we have today are no less able, are no less bright, are no less visionary," Mr. Kalikow said. "We need to get them to say, Not only do we think it needs to be done, but if there's political capital to be expended, we're willing to expend it."

Mr. Kalikow suggested that he was frustrated when Mr. Pataki and the Senate majority leader, Joseph L. Bruno, said they were unwilling to raise taxes to pay for the authority's capital program.

"I was disappointed but not surprised," Mr. Kalikow said, "because I know the governor pretty well and I know his abhorrence of taxes."

Mr. Kalikow said he and the authority's executive director, Katherine N. Lapp, have been meeting with business leaders to explain the importance of the transit network to the regional economy.

"The system is very delicate and if we don't support it with these capital plans it will deteriorate, and it will deteriorate very quickly," he said. "A result of deterioration is rider falloff, and rider falloff in a city of this economic vibrancy will cause havoc on the streets."

Robert D. Yaro, the president of the Regional Plan Association, an urban planning group that supports expansion of the region's transportation infrastructure, said he was struck by the forcefulness of Mr. Kalikow's remarks about the capital program's needs.

"This is a cri de coeur from Peter," Mr. Yaro said. "He came forward with a very bold financing strategy and he hasn't heard a response from Albany, which isn't atypical. Peter has done the bold thing in making it very clear that this has to be a front-burner issue."

Governor Pataki is on vacation and not available for comment, but a spokeswoman repeated his opposition to raising taxes. "The governor is an ardent opponent of tax increases and would like to explore other ways of meeting the M.T.A.'s capital needs," the spokeswoman, Lynn Rasic, said in declining to discuss what those other ways might be.

[NewYorkYankee]

Do you guys think that the subway system will ever go into another downfall? Im afraid for it to, its the backbone to this city. :(

[Bob]

Build, build, build!

And...to help pay for it, might I suggest differential pricing, as is done on the Washington Metro system? This way, those who choose to use the new 2nd Avenue line would have to pay a premium to do so, helping to defray the costs of construction.

[ryan]

Why focus perilously limited resources on building a subway through a prosperous area? I think the money would be better spent a) maintaining current infrastructure and avoiding any decline b) paying off the mta's debt so it's more financially stable or c) extending subway service to the west side to encourage development. In that order.

[billyblancoNYC]

Why focus perilously limited resources on building a subway through a prosperous area? I think the money would be better spent a) maintaining current infrastructure and avoiding any decline b) paying off the mta's debt so it's more financially stable or c) extending subway service to the west side to encourage development. In that order.

B/c the 4/5/6 lines are too crowded to support the most densely populated are of NYC. Furthermore, if the line is built, there would be a BOOM on York, 1st, and 2nd avenues that will not happen with people having the "I don't want to walk too far Lexington" stigma. The city needs to maintain and improve what we have AND expand. The 7 train to the West Side would not be financed by the MTA but by the city, so that's no an issue.

[debris]

So shortsighted it makes me sick. There is no leader in New York right now who doesn't understand how important this is. And no one is going to step up to the plate, especially Pataki, because raising taxes is political suicide. Especially tolling the East River bridges, which is only logical from a congestion pricing POV. Even though its the right thing to do, and even though getting rid of these projects will kill us 20 years from now. I can't believe this is the same state the created the Erie Canal, the subway system, all those highways. I guess you have to look to Shanghai for that now... :(

[billyblancoNYC]

So shortsighted it makes me sick. There is no leader in New York right now who doesn't understand how important this is. And no one is going to step up to the plate, especially Pataki, because raising taxes is political suicide. Especially tolling the East River bridges, which is only logical from a congestion pricing POV. Even though its the right thing to do, and even though getting rid of these projects will kill us 20 years from now. I can't believe this is the same state the created the Erie Canal, the subway system, all those highways. I guess you have to look to Shanghai for that now... :(

It's also the state with a $100Billion budget and the city with a $50Billion budget. Taxes and spending need to be cut. It's getting to be a real sinking ship. How much more can you tax and spend without having everyone say "**** this."

[ryan]

Financing the operating expenses of the mta with debt is shortsighted. I agree that expanding the system is needed, and I would support it 100% if it were funded responsibly. I think the mta's capital construction plan makes complete sense... except the finances.

I agree completely about tolling the east side bridges, and I would go a step further with the midtown congestion toll that's been talked around. Idiots who drive into the city should subsidize public transportation.

[TLOZ Link5]

London's done exactly that in the city center. I'm not certain if the money goes to public transportation, but still, why can't we?

[BPC]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this taxes vs. bonds debate is one we need not yet reach. The Governor is still sitting on a billion dollars of federal 9/11 transit funds which he has set aside for a West Street tunnel. The only restrictions on these funds is that they have to be used Downtown and on transit. They could easily be assigned to construct the southernmost leg of the Second Aenue Subway, from Hanover Square to the Seaport, and possibly the second leg to Chathan Square.

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/capconstr/sas/pdf/overview8_18_03.pdf

[TonyO]

NYTimes
January 19, 2005

Pataki's Budget Leaves Transit Projects in Doubt

By AL BAKER and SEWELL CHAN

ALBANY, Jan. 18 - Gov. George E. Pataki proposed a $105.5 billion budget on Tuesday that would dedicate increases in taxes and fees to mass transit but leave in doubt the future of such major projects as the Second Avenue subway and Long Island Rail Road access to Grand Central Terminal.

While the governor proposed spending $15.2 billion over five years to maintain the New York region's subways, buses and commuter railroads, he proposed ways to pay for only three years and suggested that the higher taxes and fees would pay for $3 billion of the total amount. He said he hoped that federal aid, private assistance and "innovative financing mechanisms" would help pay for the remaining two years of the plan.

Over all, Mr. Pataki's budget seeks to close a projected $4.15 billion gap in the state budget, in part by making deep cuts in health care for the state's low-income and poor people, taxing hospitals and nursing homes and giving New York City only a fraction of the education aid a court-appointed panel said it deserved by next year.

Transit and civic groups sharply criticized the budget, saying it would cripple long-awaited transit projects while leaving the financing uncertain for maintenance and upgrades that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority has described as essential.

New York City residents may be most interested in the governor's proposal to spend $2 billion for the Second Avenue subway and the railroad connection to Grand Central. The authority had asked for $3.7 billion to complete the railroad project and finish the first segment of the subway, from 125th to 63rd Streets, by about 2011. Supporters of the projects said the financing decision could mean that both are delayed until 2020 or later.

"This is not going to be done in my professional life and maybe not in my lifetime, which is very disappointing because the state's own economic forecasts can't be fulfilled," said Robert D. Yaro, president of the Regional Plan Association, one of the city's oldest civic organizations.

John F. Cape, the acting director of the state's Division of the Budget, acknowledged that the authority "will continue to face challenges in the coming months and years," but he added, "We are committed to working with them to ensure that they will meet the current and future needs of New York's commuters."

Other aides vigorously disputed the advocates' assertion that the subway and railroad projects would have to be delayed.

For the city and state university systems, the budget proposes to cut $137 million from operating costs at the senior colleges and gives the trustees the authority to offset those cuts by raising tuition.

The governor would allow increasing tuition at the State University of New York by $500 and at the City University of New York by $250, and some Republicans and Democrats in the Legislature said the schools would have to use the entire increase because of the governor's changes.

In his budget address, delivered to lawmakers and officials in a theater at the Empire State Plaza, the governor said that the state was still facing serious economic trouble and that painful choices were needed to "take the responsible, prudent path to fiscal stability." Under state law, the budget deadline is April 1, which Albany has failed to meet for 20 years in a row.

He proposed about $700 million in tax increases, including a higher excise tax on wine, and he called for an extension of a tax on clothing and footwear priced under $110, a tax that was supposed to end on May 31. He also proposed to lower more quickly than planned surcharges on two categories of income: between $150,000 and $500,000 and those earning above $500,000. The change would cost the state $190 million in revenue.

Mr. Pataki said his tax cuts would encourage economic growth, but this proposal raised objections from one of the governor's chief antagonists, Sheldon Silver, the speaker of the State Assembly. "This is all about the wealthy," said Mr. Silver, a Democrat. He added that the capital plan for the transportation authority was "totally undefined," though it counts on increases in vehicle registration fees and the mortgage recording tax, which is paid by homeowners when they buy a home or refinance their mortgage.

The governor said his budget, the 11th of his tenure, increases state spending by 2.4 percent, which he said was less than the 2.7 percent rate of inflation. But that figure assumes that the state will spend $103 billion in the fiscal year ending March 31, although lawmakers had previously put the amount of this year's spending at about $101 billion. Aides to the governor said the spending increase was primarily caused by an accounting change that added the full $4.4 billion cost of the Health Care Reform Act to the state's regular operating budget. That program, which used money from tobacco industry settlements and other revenue to pay for several expensive but politically popular items, like hospital subsidies and health insurance for low-income workers, is set to expire on June 30.

Edmund J. McMahon, a policy analyst with the Manhattan Institute, a conservative policy group, said that spending was still too high in New York, with projected gaps of $2.7 billion in fiscal years 2007 and 2008. The governor proposes to increase spending of state funds - exclusive of federal aid - by 5.4 percent, Mr. McMahon said.

In seeking to close the budget gap, the governor focused on health care and Medicaid, the health insurance program for the poor, to trim nearly $1 billion in spending, including the reimbursement rates for the state's hospitals and nursing homes. That lower state spending would cause local cuts and lead to about $3 billion in reduced spending on health care across New York, said Jennifer Cunningham, the political director of 1199/S.E.I.U, the health care workers' union. That is because the state's contribution generates matching money from the federal government and localities.

The governor was under increased pressure this year to comply with an order from the State Court of Appeals to increase school spending significantly to provide New York City's 1.1 million public students with a sound basic education. A court-appointed panel said that would mean about $1.4 billion in new funds for the city next year alone. In his budget, the governor proposed expanding video gambling to increase money aimed at educating the neediest children around the state. That fund would provide $325 million in the first year, which is the precise amount Mr. Pataki proposed last year.

Beyond that, he proposed providing $4.7 billion in state, local and federal funds for New York City schools over five years, a plan that mirrors one that he submitted to a panel of court-appointed referees last fall, and which the panel rejected. That plan relies on tapping gambling revenues for $1.2 billion, relying on the federal government for $1 billion, and counting on the city to contribute $1.5 billion more, though the Bloomberg administration has vociferously resisted contributing any additional money.

Michael Rebell, the executive director of the Campaign for Fiscal Equity, the group that brought the lawsuit that led to the court order, said of the governor's plan: "It's an incredible rehash. It's a disappointment. This warmed-over budget plan has already been rejected by the Legislature."

Still, aides to the governor said his budget would increase state education aid to $15.9 billion next year, an increase of $526 million for the entire state and a number they contended was the largest increase any governor has ever proposed.

"My goal is to solve the question of how we fund those 207 high-needs districts without raising taxes on New Yorkers, and I've offered this as a solution, and I'm willing to listen to other nontax solutions, but I haven't seen them," the governor said.

Mr. Pataki also called for allowing New York City to open an unlimited number of charter schools by exempting the city from a statewide limit of 100 such schools that was established in 1998. That limit threatened to be an obstacle for Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg in his effort to open 50 new charter schools and the city cheered the governor's comments yesterday.

"We applaud the governor," said Michele McManus Higgins, a spokeswoman for Schools Chancellor Joel I. Klein. "Charter schools provide our children with additional educational opportunities, and we are pleased that we will be able to build upon our efforts and expand these much-needed opportunities for students in our city."

[kliq6]

Speaking as a UESider who takes the 6 train, ive got to admit that the 7 line extension is much more important then this 2nd ave subway. The 7 line will bring transit to a area that needs to be developed for the health of NYC to continue. This and the East Side Access should take precedent over the Downtown JFK, 2nd Ave and West street Tunnel projects.

[pianoman11686]

Speaking as a former high school student who used to take the 4/5/6 to and from school everyday from Grand Central, I think the 2nd Avenue Subway is really necessary. Though they've done a good job at renovating some of the stations, it's still way too crowded. Plus a new subway line could boost development near the East River in that area, where there hasn't been anything new built in a while.

[Clarknt67]

Speaking as a Brooklynite who uses the 4/5 to get to East side midtown on occaision I can say there are mornings I have to let 2 or 3 trains pass before I can get one that is empty enough to board. The east side lines seem MUCH MUCH more crowded than the west side lines (which I never have that problem with).

[Deimos]

The 6 is a nightmare during rush hour, I'm on it 4-6 times daily shuttling from my apartment to my office and out to my sales territory. I'm not sure if the 2nd avenue subway will really help out too much in the near term however, it really will just spurn development onto 1st and especially 2nd avenue. The project that's being developed for the L train should be rapidly expanded instead to increase the capacity of the lexington avenue line... granted th