Coney Island "Renaissance"

[ablarc]

I simply do not believe that this City cares so little for its history as to allow this atrocity to happen. Coney Island may be down on the heels, but it still brings joy to hundreds of thousands of persons every year. To transform this priceless piece of NYC history into a backdrop for a oceanfront condo development is just plain obscene.
Problem is, you can't make the business model work for a gateless amusement park.

I live in a much smaller city than New York, my kids have [very expensive] season passes to the huge local Paramount amusement park, to which I or another parent have to drive them (30 minutes on the interstate). Once you're in, all the dozens of rides are free, and the park makes its money --like a movie theater-- at the refreshment stands.

If Coney Island's Boardwalk were inside a fence, Nathan's could also charge an arm and a leg for a hot dog and Coney Island would be a gold mine.

That will never happen, and probably shouldn't, but New York could use an amusement park somewhere with a sound business model. Think how much money could be made in such a big city if the kids could get to it by subway.

[tmg]

Problem is, you can't make the business model work for a gateless amusement park.

Works just fine in Santa Cruz.

[GowanusGuy]

This is the only C7 district left in the city and it is the Coney Island C7 Amusement Zone. Housing and Hotel buildings do not belong there AT ALL.

Are there any hotels near Coney Island now?

[BrooklynRider]

Problem is, you can't make the business model work for a gateless amusement park.


Take a trip to Wildwood, New Jersey or Seaside Heights and you'll see some classic seaside amusement parks - free general admission (pay as you go) - that are PACKED and thriving. Morey's Piers in Wildwood has three HUGE amusement piers with rides packed very tightly in, some of them quite unique. The have a great seaside roller coaster, The Great White. This place is booming and the boardwalk has EVERY kind of retail, food and entertainment option you ca imagine - EXCEPT bars. No bars can operate on the boardwalk. It is a very effective model and one C.I. ought to emulate.

[lofter1]

Works just fine in Santa Cruz.

My thoughts, exactly ^^

SC is a fun, open place that was down on its heels -- but is now seemingly doing just fine ...

http://www.themeparkbrochures.net/maps/2004/scruz2004.html

http://virtualglobetrotting.com/pic/578.jpg

http://www.destination360.com/north-america/us/california/images/s/california-santa-cruz-boardwalk.jpg

http://www.soocool.com/gallery/photos/exhibitregular/Santa_Cruz_Boardwalk.jpg

http://www.qedata.se/bilder/gallerier/kalifornien/boardwalk.jpg

How she used to look ...

http://www.ci.santa-cruz.ca.us/pl/hpc/hpcsite/images/bwalklg.jpg

Description: Swimmers and sunbathers on the beach by the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk and Casino.

Date: 1920s?

Place: Santa Cruz City

[BigMac]

New York Sun
August 8, 2006

Multiple Architecture Firms Work on Coney Island Overhaul

By LEON NEYFAKH - Special to the Sun

The architects responsible for the 45-story Westin Hotel in Times Square have been quietly working on plans for a new Coney Island.

The flashy Miami-based firm Arquitectonica said yesterday that since March it has been working with the city's Coney Island Development Corporation on plans to restore the area surrounding the storied but relatively rundown amusement park. The project stretches roughly from Surf Avenue to the boardwalk, all the way from the Brooklyn Aquarium to 24th Street.

The crown jewel of the area, the corner of Stillwell and Surf avenues, is being simultaneously developed by Thor Equities and designed by architects at Ehrenkrantz Eckstut and Kuhn. A spokesman for EEK and Thor Equities, Lee Silberstein, said yesterday that the developer is collaborating with the city on the site.

A recent error on the architectural firm's Web site, however, illustrated a lack of communication among the various parties involved in the redevelopment project.

EEK recently posted a preliminary rendering for the 10-acre site on showing that a residential high-rise, a luxury hotel, and a new pier, complete with a new ferris wheel, have been proposed during the planning process.

Mr. Silberstein said yesterday that the renderings were "inaccurate" and that they had been posted "erroneously."

He called the posting of the proposal "unauthorized," saying that it "was not accepted by Thor."

He added that an updated proposal for the site may be released in about three weeks.

Arquitectonica would not comment on its vision for the surrounding area, directing all inquiries to the Department of City Planning.

EEK's renderings for the Stillwell site, since removed from the firm's Web site, show the lot from several different perspectives, offering some clues about what the condo high-rise and the luxury hotel that the developers have discussed may look like.

The rendering places a massive entertainment complex there, including a movie theater, dense signage, an indoor waterpark, and scattered concession booths shaped like Coney's storied Parachute Jump. A plaza would be enclosed by two tall beachside buildings, which would presumably house the condominium apartments and the 500-room hotel that the New York Times has reported that Thor Equities is considering.

Mr. Silberstein said the corner has been allowed to deteriorate over time, and that whatever ends up going there will "enliven" it.

The EEK renderings were labeled "conceptual" plans and dated to June. A caption called the site "a mixed-use entertainment complex which will include residential, hotel, retail and a new waterpark."

The caption also noted that the redevelopment "fits into the master plan as developed by the Coney Island Development Corporation."

The director of public affairs for the CIDC, Andrew Brent, said the city had not seen the renderings.

"While we have not seen their specific renderings, we are encouraged that Thor Equities is looking to bring private investment to the area," Mr. Brent told The New York Sun in an e-mailed statement. "At the same time, we are also working to ensure that the goals of the City's strategic plan and the interests of the community are a priority as we move through the rezoning process, and we will work with any private investor including Thor to ensure that a balance is met."

Mr. Brent did not specify when a final plan for the site would be announced, and the CIDC's Web site does not provide a schedule for upcoming board meetings.

EEK's renderings were first linked and discussed on the Wired New York online forum, where Brooklynites anonymously but vehemently criticized the plan.

© 2006 The New York Sun, One SL, LLC.

[lofter1]

WiredNewYork ROCKS ^^^ !!!

Scoops-R-Us :cool:

[spconeyi83]

Im hearing coney island is revamped, I haven't been back in a few years to see the drastic changes. Everytime I search for pics I just see the same old boardwalk and the cyclone. Where the pics of the projects? I know they still exist. It seems like coney island is trying to become a vaction spot, only showing you the positive pics & then when you get there they tell you to stay in one area. Instead of trying to get more people to move in and vacation they should continue to create job opportunities. There are a lot of family owned stores that only employ family, which force people to find work outside of brooklyn, which is hard already, then the commute. I grew up on 80's & 90's coney island, crack house Next to my building, and 1 across the street. In my eyes the people who love coney island the most are the ones barely keeping their head above water, not the people in the duplexes and condos. Instead of building new shit, why not improve on the poorer areas. Carey Gardens, the "pink" building, 2828, 2955. I don't think it will happen because there is a negative view of that area (from the train station down to sea gate), but that's the heart of coney right there. The people may be poor, but they bust their ass daily to barely make it. From $1 cabs, chineese food establishments, pizzeria's to the bodegah's these are the people of coney island that i'll always have love for.

[Eugenious]

Im hearing coney island is revamped, I haven't been back in a few years to see the drastic changes.

Nothings happening yet, the two big things that have happened is the rebuilt Subway terminal and the Cyclones stadium. Besides that the area is as dangerous and dirty as ever.

As I said before I dont see how you can remake the area without addressing the poor/ghetto projects and rundown streets, they need to clean that up before they start building mega hotel residential projects. I drove through the area last week and I accidentally turned down on of the streets and heard gunfire very close by. Safe to say I will not be going to coney island anytime soon again.

[TREPYE]

^ That is an issue of paramount impact. I dont see how they plan on making this area all glitsy when you have a bunch of projects that run down the area. I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to put those housing projects there?? :rolleyes:

[krulltime]

Coney Island: Revival For the ‘People’s Playground’
Historian Michael Immerso Calls Redevelopment ‘Long Overdue’


by Brooklyn Eagle
published online 09-01-2006

CONEY ISLAND — America’s most famous seaside amusement resort is preparing for a billion-dollar makeover.

“A century ago Coney Island was the epicenter of America’s mass amusement industry,” according to Michael Immerso, author of Coney Island, The People’s Playground. “It was the home of Luna Park, Dreamland, and Steeplechase Park, the birthplace of the hot dog and the roller coaster. But it long ago fell into decline. After decades of neglect New York has at long last committed itself to Coney’s revival.” This past year, the City of New York unveiled plans for a billion-dollar revitalization of Coney Island’s amusement district and surrounding neighborhoods. The city wants to transform Coney Island into a “year-round visitor destination.”

The plan outlined by the Coney Island Development Corporation (CIDC) anticipates a billion dollars in private investment over the next ten years that is expected to generate 2,000 permanent jobs and 10,000 construction jobs over the next 20 years. The redevelopment envisions new amusement and entertainment venues along Surf Avenue, an amusement park midway on Stillwell Avenue, and an expansion of the New York Aquarium.

The focal point of the redevelopment is Coney Island’s historic amusement district. As the Eagle has mentioned in the past, Thor Equities has acquired $100 million in property in the heart of the amusement zone. Its chairman, Brooklyn native Joe Sitt, wants to build a year-round resort and amusement complex with a luxury hotel, a water park and other rides and attractions. Sitt envisions a 100-foot-tall waterslide, a giant carousel, amusement arcades and a landing pad for blimps atop the complex. Another developer, Taconic Investment Partners, has acquired property along Surf Avenue and hopes to spearhead redevelopment beyond the amusement district. Both developers must conform to the city’s redevelopment master plan.


Ferry Service a Possibility


One of many ambitious ideas under consideration is a proposal advanced by the New York Aquarium to rebuild the historic Iron Pier and initiate ferry service to Coney Island. At one time Coney Island had two piers extending 1,200 feet out into the ocean where steamboats docked bringing tourists to the beach.

“Coney’s piers were engineering marvels and were attractions in their own right,” according to Immerso. “The new Coney Island will require additional means of transportation for the many new visitors the city hopes to lure. A state-of-the-art amusement pier at Coney makes perfect sense.” The CIDC is presently conducting a feasibility study to determine whether ferry service to the resort is viable from an engineering and marketing standpoint.

The city’s redevelopment plan marks the third time Coney Island has undergone a nearly complete makeover. Coney Island was first transformed in 1875 and in the years immediately thereafter when Manhattan Beach and Brighton Beach opened, and the Iron Piers, Ocean Parkway and Coney Island Concourse were built.

Two decades later (1903-1904), it underwent another transformation when Luna Park and Dreamland opened, prompting many to dub it the New Coney.

“The Coney Island landmarks most of us are familiar with — the Boardwalk, the Cyclone roller coaster, the Wonder Wheel and Parachute Jump — are in fact vestiges of the Coney Island that existed between the two World Wars when the resort had already begun to fall upon hard times,” Immerso explains.

Despite years of decline, Coney Island continues to attract large crowds that come to walk its beach, ride the historic Cyclone roller coaster, and dine on a hot dog at Nathan’s. As many as ten million people visit each year, and the city hopes that the redevelopment will greatly increase that number.

Others worry that redevelopment threatens to trade away the honky-tonk that has long defined Coney Island for a flashy new resort.

“Redevelopment is long overdue,” according to Immerso, “but it must respect Coney Island’s legacy as the people’s resort and preserve some of the features that made it so unique.”


© Brooklyn Daily Eagle 2006

[lofter1]

Ferry Service to CI would be a great thing ...



Coney Island: Revival For the ‘People’s Playground’

Ferry Service a Possibility

One of many ambitious ideas under consideration is a proposal advanced by the New York Aquarium to rebuild the historic Iron Pier and initiate ferry service to Coney Island. At one time Coney Island had two piers extending 1,200 feet out into the ocean where steamboats docked bringing tourists to the beach.

“Coney’s piers were engineering marvels and were attractions in their own right,” according to Immerso. “The new Coney Island will require additional means of transportation for the many new visitors the city hopes to lure. A state-of-the-art amusement pier at Coney makes perfect sense.” The CIDC is presently conducting a feasibility study to determine whether ferry service to the resort is viable from an engineering and marketing standpoint.

[BigMac]

Gothamist
October 26, 2006

Some Coney Island Rides Won't See Another Summer

By Jen Chung

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2006_10_coneyislandnight.jpg

As the redevelopment of Coney Island keeps moving ahead, it's starting to become clear what will be around next summer and what won't. Thor Equities (http://www.thorequities.com/), the developer with 10 acres of Coney Island land, has been letting various tenants know whether their leases are up or if they get to stick around. The NY Post put a positive spin on things (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10262006/news/regionalnews/new_life_for_coney_i__faves_regionalnews_rich_cald er.htm), noting that "11 boardwalk businesses would be allowed to remain open at least one more summer" and that the attractions - "including Ruby's Bar and Grill, Cha-Cha's and Shoot the Freak paintball - will be given the opportunity to move into the proposed complex."

The Daily News takes a more dire approach (http://www.nydailynews.com/10-26-2006/news/story/465248p-391493c.html), reporting that eight tenants were given notice, including the Zipper, the Spider, go-carts, batting cages and carny games. "Six tenants are in the Henderson Building on Stillwell Ave., a turn-of-the century structure that once housed a dance hall and hotel. The other two are are along W. 12th St. and Stillwell Ave. Combined, they operate more than a dozen businesses."

Kinetic Carnival spoke to Dick Zigun (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2006/10/thor-begins-to-stomp-out-development.html) of Coney Island U.S.A. who said:

"Although this all breaks my heart...it is not unexpected. If tenants are seasonal and do not have leases...and if Thor is the new owner of property then they have a right under the American system of capitalism and private property to do this. If they are going to build something new then we all know they have to demolish what is old and not land-marked. Let us not be naive and admit that this is what is coming to some of old Coney Island whether for summer of 2007 or 2008".
More about Coney Island redvelopment here at the Coney Island Development Corporation (http://www.thecidc.org/) and Curbed's been wondering if the new Coney Island will be Glam Rock or Empty Death Rock (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/10/24/coney_island_clean_out_starting.php). And there's more redevelopment afoot as the New York Aquarium in Coney Island is reviewing new designs (http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2006/10/06/proposed_redesi.php).

Photograph of Coney Island at night by chinycjo on Flickr (http://flickr.com/photos/chinycjo/202195722/)

2003-2006 Gothamist LLC.

[ablarc]

Just keeps on shrinking.

Is this thread correctly titled?

[Fahzee]

still - as long as the area is zoned for amusement, only amusement related businesses will be built - and as far as I can tell the zoning will remain in place.

I do feel bad for the little guys that are getting pushed out.

[krulltime]

NEW-WAVE CONEY


http://www.nypost.com/seven/10312006/photos/news028.jpg


By RICH CALDER
October 31, 2006

Here's a sneak peek at Coney Island's glamorous future.

Architectural renderings obtained by The Post show a grand vision of the famed summer amusement area's rundown streets being transformed into a glitzy year-round playground and public attraction.

In one image, Stillwell Avenue becomes a fantasy-filled boulevard marked by larger-than-life street furniture, such as a mermaid swimming in a martini glass and a gigantic tattooed elephant.

The landmark Cyclone roller coaster can still be seen from down Bowery Street - which itself is reinvented as a permanent festival and sideshow area.

Thor Equities has purchased 10 acres of boardwalk land in the hope of building a $1.5 billion entertainment destination.

The project is awaiting city approval, but the company hopes to break ground in 18 months and wrap up in about five years.


http://www.nypost.com/seven/10312006/photos/news028a.jpg


Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[MrSpice]

The biggest problem with this and other projects like that one is that approval and red tape take such a damn long time.

[krulltime]

More Coney Island Aquarium Redo Renderings


http://ruiz-geli.com/media/11%20Competition/NYaquarium01.jpg


Wednesday, November 1, 2006

After yesterday's publication of a couple of more "visions" of the future Coney Island in all of its odd dystopian glory, the additional renderings and models from one of the finalists vying to redesign the butt ugly utilitarian New York Aquarium are almost a breath of fresh air. (At least, there are no mermaids with pumpkins on their asses.) It may or may not win and get built, but they're pretty cool. This is the propsal from WRT and Cloud9. More images after the jump if you click through.

Aquarium Design Proposal (http://ruiz-geli.com/)

BONUS: The city digs the Thor Coney vision. Coney Island Development Corp. interim president Joshua Sirefman tells the Post their latest renderings "show the right kind of energy that we've always talked about for Coney Island." But, Coney blogger Kinetic Carnival says they look like "lesser quality rejects" of drawings mistakenly released this summer and a "rehash."


Copyright © 2006 Curbed

[antinimby]

Hopes soar for Coney coaster


http://www.curbed.com/2006_11_Coney%20One.jpg
Futuristic plan for Coney Island's redevelopment envisions new roller coaster twisting
over Boardwalk.


Originally published on November 14, 2006 (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/471284p-396528c.html)

Hold on to your hats, Coney Island fans.

A new state-of-the-art roller coaster could someday be weaving between buildings and bulleting along Coney's famed Boardwalk.

With more than 4,000 feet of swirling steel tracks, the yet-unnamed coaster would soar above Stillwell Ave. and spiral along the Boardwalk at breakneck speeds.

The coaster, which would be an instant rival to Coney's classic Cyclone, is part of a massive redevelopment plan by Thor Equities, which has bought property in the Brooklyn amusement mecca.

"In its heyday, Coney Island always had the biggest, best, most futuristic attractions in the world," said Thor Equities spokesman Lee Silberstein.

"As envisioned, the new coaster will be the ride of a lifetime and will propel Coney Island into the next phase of its life," Silberstein said.

Thor's $1.5 billion vision for Coney would add residential, retail, entertainment and other amusement components, including an indoor water park and a glassed-in carousel. The proposal still needs city approval.

Designers at the Switzerland-based amusement firm Intamin AG are devising a plan that would allow the tracks to be extended if it's decided later that the coaster should be bigger.

Folks walking along the Boardwalk yesterday mostly praised the idea for a new coaster, though some said they feared the high-tech ride would ruin the area's honky-tonk feel.

"This will surpass any roller coaster out now," said retiree Tyrone Scott, 67.

"I haven't been on a roller coaster in five years, but I'd try it if it goes slow."

Mike Alvarado, 50, said no to slow: He wants to see a coaster that hangs upside down, swirls and soars high above the Boardwalk.

"They should build it," said Alvarado, 50, a counselor who lives in Marine Park, Brooklyn. "It would bring more business and people. It should be like the kind at Great Adventure."

Denise Romano and Jotham Sederstrom

All contents © 2006 Daily News, L.P.

[BrooklynRider]

I've never seen so much "nothing happening" get so much press.

[antinimby]

Why set Coney Island's goals so low? A mere amusement park by the sea?

C'mon, there are bigger and loftier goals to strive for.

If I was the city, I would allow gambling in Coney Island.

That's right, you heard it, CASINO GAMBLING.

This will almost certainly give this downtrodden area a jolt of life that one can only dream about.

Resorts, rides, hotels, games, restaurants, shows, etc. all going on 24-hours a day.

Face it, many New Yorkers go to Atlantic City, Connecticutt casinos anyway and spend billions each year there.

Why not keep some of that dough in the city and make a little from the tourists as well?

Give the unemployed in the nearby housing projects the jobs and you've rejuvenized and revitalized another, once-derelict neighborhood.

[Kris]

November 19, 2006
Living In | Coney Island, Brooklyn
Safety Belts On? Renewal Has Its Hazards
By DAVID SCHARFENBERG

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/11/19/realestate/19livi.1.600.jpg
SYMBOL OF REVIVAL The Parachute Jump, restored and newly lighted in July, is a symbol of the change that Coney Island seems poised for.

Audio Slide Show: Coney Island's Revival (http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/realestate/20061119_LIVI_AUDIOSS/blocker.html)

UNCHECKED for decades, decay has left Coney Island a motley jumble of vacant lots, forbidding bodegas and shabby, if lovable, amusements. But change is on its way to this scruffy slice of south Brooklyn seafront; the signs are everywhere.

KeySpan Park, a handsome minor league baseball stadium, has drawn steady crowds since it opened in 2001. Developers are plotting Ocean Dreams, the neighborhood’s first large luxury condominium complex, on Surf Avenue. And a certain Seattle-based coffee giant — a familiar harbinger of change — recently opened a branch on Coney Island.

“We’ve come up in the world,” said Linda Pontolillo, a real estate agent who lives in Sea Gate, a private community on the western edge of the neighborhood. “We’ve got a Starbucks drive-through.”

But the project inspiring the most excitement — and dread — is the $1.5 billion brainchild of Joseph J. Sitt, a developer who grew up in the Gravesend section of Brooklyn, just north of Coney Island.

Mr. Sitt’s real estate company, Thor Equities, has bought about 10 acres in the heart of the neighborhood’s amusement area and is planning an entertainment complex that, in its most recent version, would include an indoor water park, light and water shows, a three-story carousel and a still-to-be-defined residential component that could include hotels, time shares, rentals and condominiums.

Zoning changes and approval are required before work can begin. But the Bloomberg administration, eager to revitalize Coney Island, has generally been supportive.

The prospect of new life and hundreds of new jobs has stirred excitement in some corners. But neighborhood veterans like Charles Reichenthal are worried that the area could lose its democratic character.

“Such a big thing is probably not really Coney Island,” said Mr. Reichenthal, district manager of Community Board 13, a neighborhood panel that advises city government. “Coney Island,” he said, “is a people’s paradise.”

Thor Equities, at least 18 months from the start of construction, is already clearing away go-cart tracks and batting cages to make room. But the neighborhood’s best-known landmarks — the Cyclone roller coaster, the Wonder Wheel Ferris wheel and the original Nathan’s Famous hot dog stand — will remain untouched.

Lee Silberstein, a Thor spokesman who describes the project as “something like Bourbon Street, before Katrina,” sees it as restoring vitality. “That’s exactly what we’re trying to recapture,” he said, “a place where people can just have fun.”

What You’ll Find

Coney Island, which has a residential population of about 53,000, is bounded by the Belt Parkway to the north, Ocean Parkway to the east and the Atlantic Ocean to the south. Sea Gate, a 97-year-old gated community that some consider a separate neighborhood, is on theneighborhood’s far western flank.

The main drag, Surf Avenue, is home to the neighborhood’s honky-tonk amusements. Visitors tempt fate on the Cyclone, fire paintballs at a live human target at the “Shoot the Freak” booth and, when they have had enough, walk down to the beach or take a stroll along the boardwalk.

The two other east-west arteries, Mermaid and Neptune Avenues, do not quite live up to their names: a jumble of low-rise sneaker stores and coin-operated laundries dominate the commercial stretches.

But there are a few treasures. On one block of Neptune Avenue, locals can drop off a car for repairs, pick up a bowl of split pea soup at the Soup Shop and wrangle a bird at Neptune Pigeon Supply in minutes.

Much of the housing stock is of the high-altitude variety. A series of public housing projects tower over the west end, just outside Sea Gate, while high-rise rental, co-op and condo buildings dominate the eastern section, where Coney Island bleeds into Brighton Beach.

Trump Village, built in 1963 and 1964 by Donald J. Trump’s father, Fred, with support from the state’s Mitchell-Lama affordable housing program, is a collection of limited-equity co-op towers with lengthy waiting lists and rental buildings.

Brightwater Towers, a pair of 23-story buildings on Surf Avenue with views of the Atlantic, is a Mitchell-Lama project that converted to market-rate condominiums in 1992.

About 1,000 modest single-family row houses line the central and western sections. Built from 1981 to 2004 with city, state and federal subsidies, the houses were originally available to income-restricted buyers. But the owners are now allowed to sell them on the open market.

Sea Gate, separated from Coney Island proper by a chain-link fence, a gate and a quasi-private police force, is a minisuburb of sorts, complete with sprawling Tudor houses, synagogues and a private beach club.

What You’ll Pay

Coney Island housing prices, though still reasonable by New York standards, have risen sharply in the last five years — fueled in part, according to real estate agents, by an influx of well-heeled Russians from neighboring Brighton Beach.

The median sales price for a one- to three-bedroom house, for instance, was $369,000 in the first six months of the year, according to the Brooklyn Board of Realtors, more than double the price in the same period in 2001.

Linda Vallely, an associate broker with the Pullini Realty & Development Corporation in Gravesend, has made a cottage industry of selling Coney Island’s row houses. “I think these houses are fabulous,” she said. “They’re cute little duplexes.”

Ms. Vallely said the houses, most fully attached, with a small yard or driveway out front, sell for $385,000 to $470,000. And the prices do not appear to be dipping. “Coney Island is untouched by the weakening market,” she said, “because the houses are so cheap to begin with.”

At Brightwater Towers, whose amenities include a doorman and a pool, a one-bedroom condo is listing for $375,000. The owner of a three-bedroom condo is asking $649,900. In Sea Gate, single-family houses sold for $385,000 to $695,000 over the last 12 months, according to the Brooklyn Multiple Listing Service.

As for property taxes, a Neptune Avenue house that sold for $381,000 in May has an annual bill of $1,022.

In Trump Village I and Trump Village II, the development’s two rental towers, rent-stabilized studios are commanding $1,100 a month. One-bedrooms go for $1,299 to $1,499, two-bedrooms for $1,700 to $1,999 and three-bedrooms for $2,100 to $2,300.

What to Do

In June, the Mermaid Parade kicks off the summer. Then, until September, baseball fans flock to KeySpan Park to cheer on the Brooklyn Cyclones, a Mets-affiliated team that has developed a rivalry with the Staten Island Yankees.

KeySpan is also a concert site, having showcased Bjork, the White Stripes and the Across the Narrows music festival in the last few years.

Coney Island quiets down considerably in the winter, when the amusements shut down and the Cyclones hibernate. But the locals still flock to Totonno’s, opened in 1924 by Anthony (Totonno) Pero and still a beloved pizzeria. Gargiulo’s, a fancier Italian restaurant on West 17th Street, also has a broad following.

Kaiser Park, with baseball fields, tennis courts and views of the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge, is a neighborhood favorite. And a community center, to include an Olympic-size pool, is in the works.

The New York Aquarium moved to Coney Island in 1957. Last month, city officials unveiled three finalists in a design competition that could bring man-made sand dunes or an enormous glowing jellyfish to the aquarium’s exterior.

The History

Coney Island turned into a full-fledged resort after the Civil War. At the turn of the 20th century, three amusement parks set up shop along Surf Avenue: Steeplechase Park, Luna Park and Dreamland.

By 1920, there were a million visitors a day in the summer, according to the Encyclopedia of New York City. But by 1944, two of the three parks — Luna and Dreamland — had succumbed to fire.

The increasing popularity of Jones Beach hastened Coney Island’s decline. Urban renewal at midcentury brought public housing and thousands of low-income tenants.

Steeplechase Park closed in 1964. But its towering Parachute Jump ride, restored and lighted in July, has become a symbol of revival.

The Schools

Coney Island’s elementary schools are a mixed lot, with only some exceeding citywide averages on the state’s testing regimen.

At Public School 100, 87 percent of third graders met state standards in math and 82 percent in English. At P.S. 188, by contrast, 66 percent of third graders met math standards and 50 percent hit English targets. Citywide averages were 75 percent in math and 62 percent in English.

Mark Twain Intermediate School for the Gifted and Talented is highly regarded. Of its eighth-graders, 89 percent met state standards in English and 92 percent in math. Citywide averages were 37 percent in English and 39 percent in math.

The major public high schools in the area scored below average on the SAT reasoning test last year. At John Dewey High School, for instance, students averaged 433 on the verbal section of the test and 485 on the math. Statewide averages were 497 on the verbal and 511 on the math.

In September 2005, two specialty high schools opened in Coney Island: the Rachel Carson School of Coastal Studies and the High School of Sports Management. Both are open to students citywide. Test results are not yet available for either school.

The Commute

The Q, D, F and N lines all terminate at the neighborhood’s lone subway station, Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue, which recently received a $294 million facelift.

A midday subway ride from the Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue station to Union Square in Manhattan on the Q line takes about 45 minutes, according to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

What We Like

The rickety pleasures of the Cyclone and the tranquil atmosphere of the boardwalk are still solid attractions. And the neighborhood’s isolation, whatever its drawbacks, has created a sense of community.

Going Forward

The neighborhood is missing the cafes and movie theaters that could make it a more livable place. But their arrival seems inevitable.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/11/17/realestate/19livi.OTM.L.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/11/17/realestate/19livi.map.L.jpg

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

[lofter1]

Cyclone saved, but beloved Astroland will close

nydailynews.com (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/breaking_news/story/475336p-399820c.html)
ASSOCIATED PRESS
November 28th, 2006

The vintage Astroland Amusement Park, one of the anchors of Coney Island since its 1962 opening, was purchased Tuesday by a developer intent on restoring the Brooklyn beachfront as a $1.5 billion year-round resort.

The Albert family, owners of the well-known park, will close the 3.1-acre attraction at the end of the 2007 summer season under the deal reached with Thor Equities. The Alberts will continue to operate the landmark Cyclone roller-coaster, which turns 80 next year, under an existing agreement with the city.

The decision to sell was "very difficult and made only after months of extensive discussion," said Carol Hill Albert, co-owner of Astroland with husband Jerome. The park was launched by her late father-in-law, Dewey Albert.

In the end, the cost of converting Astroland to a year-round operation was too steep. The family had turned down larger bids last year "in the hope of finding an alternative that would enable us to keep our current location," Albert said — but it didn't pan out.

Thor Equities plans a $1.5 billion, year-round facility in Coney Island. Although no price was given for the Astroland purchase, Thor had already spent $100 million snapping up properties along the venerable boardwalk.

Thor's plans include a mix of amusements and attractions, including a new roller coaster and a new hotel to accommodate the anticipated arrival of new tourists.

The site of the amusement park is renowned for another reason. Local legend has it that restaurateur Charles Feltman invented the hot dog there in 1874.

The Alberts, although they sold their property to Thor, retained ownership of attractions like the water flume and the Astrotower in hopes of adding some new rides and relocating to another section of the neighborhood. The amusement park employs about 300 workers every summer, and Albert was hopeful that city and Brooklyn officials could help with relocation costs. "The Albert family is proud to have provided so many wonderful memories for so many generations and to have been such an important part of New York's world famous Coney Island," Albert said.

All contents © 2006 Daily News, L.P.

[SuddenImpact]

Can someone explain this story to me?

I thought the guy in charge of Thor had bought the land which holds Astroland, Deno's Wonder Wheel, as well as all of the boardwalk booths way back in early 2005?

In fact, I thought Thor owned just about everything in between the ballpark and the roller coaster.

With Astroland holding out until yesterday,,, why was city/media/we in WiredNYF giving Thor so much play?

Can anyone tell me, aside from Astroland, what does Thor actually own right now?

Is Deno's Wonder Wheel park, and other areas, like the land where the Thunderbolt coaster once stood (now a holding lot for city school busses) still privately owned, or have they been bought out by Thor as well?

[MrSpice]

Why set Coney Island's goals so low? A mere amusement park by the sea?

C'mon, there are bigger and loftier goals to strive for.

If I was the city, I would allow gambling in Coney Island.

That's right, you heard it, CASINO GAMBLING.

This will almost certainly give this downtrodden area a jolt of life that one can only dream about.

Resorts, rides, hotels, games, restaurants, shows, etc. all going on 24-hours a day.

Face it, many New Yorkers go to Atlantic City, Connecticutt casinos anyway and spend billions each year there.

Why not keep some of that dough in the city and make a little from the tourists as well?

Give the unemployed in the nearby housing projects the jobs and you've rejuvenized and revitalized another, once-derelict neighborhood.

I think it's obvious to any logical and business-friendly person that gambling should be legal, at least in some areas. It would bring money and people into this poor neighborhood and will lead to the creation of many new jobs and a huge inflow of tax dollars. However, for a reason that's beyond me, most citizens of the State of New York don't think so. In fact, the New York State constitution states that gambling cannot be legalized, even though New York lottery is a form of gambling that is ruthlessly promoted by the state and run by a private company.

It does not make sense.

[BrooklynRider]

Can anyone tell me, aside from Astroland, what does Thor actually own right now?


Thor Basically owns everything from the lot behind Nathans all the way east to the Aquarium. There are a few hold-out owners, such as Deno's Wonder Wheel Park that still hold their land. It is my understanding that El Dorado Bumper Cars has not yet sold out.

There's much speculation that, if Thor has it's way, the landmarked rides (i.e., the Wonder Wheel and Cyclone) will be relocated on the lot behind Keyspan Park (where the current Little League/Soccer Field is located). That would put these rides at the foot of the Parachute Jump and would be joined by the B&B Carousell, which the city bought last year and is restoring to be moved near the Parachute Jump.

The issue of "Landmark Status" has come up and it means nothing. The Hayden Planetarium had landmark status, but that status was lifted to demolish it for the Rose Center. The landmark status of the Foley POst Office will need to be revoked as well, if MSG is to be rebuilt atop the structure. Landmarking isn't forever.

The other issue is Thor's determination to get a significant housing component into the development. This and the glitzy hotel are not permitted in the C-7 Amusement Zone (in which all this land falls). However, by acquiring nearly all of the amusement zone, Thor can now emulate what Fred Trump did at famed Steeplechase Park: raze the whole area and build NOTHING until he gets his zoning variance.

Most speculation is that the whole scheme (building the hotel and getting a partial residential variance) paves the way for Thor to build a high-end hotel and, when it fails, easily convert it to condos.

Big picture: this is the end of Coney Island as an amusement park. Although mentions a new 4,000 steel rollercoaster and a three-tiered carousel in it's ubiquitous press releases and the waterpark has been downgraded to a giant "waterslide" in their last press release, the those are the only amusement rides in the entire proposal.

Many of the renderings to date have shown blow-up rendering of the Stillwell Avenue concourse to the boardwalk and very little else. Thor, however, has a page on its website that seeks acquisition sites. If you want a better idea of what we can expect to come from Thor, click on the link below and look at the Coney Island Development. For all the hoopla about whales and mermaids in martini glasses, it is a development in the amusement zone that primarily consists of hi-rise buildings. There's nothing amusing in that.

http://66.45.42.20/handlers/pdfViewer.asp?p=1&pdf=../properties/files/3593/ThorUrbanEBlast1006%2Epdf

[BigMac]

Curbed
December 4, 2006

More Coney Island Goodness

by Robert

http://www.curbed.com/2006_11_Coney%20Arquitectonica1.jpg

We don't know for sure what this is or, even, how long it's been around, but it's a Coney Island rendering and it's weird interesting enough to share. The Coney blog Kinetic Carnival (http://www.kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/) found it and some others on the ArquitectonicaGEO (http://www.arquitectonicageo.com/portfolio.asp) site. (Arquitectonica is doing some work for the Coney Island Development Corp. (http://www.thecidc.org/)) They're, uh, quite unlike the Coney Island v 2.1 (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/11/13/heres_coney_island_v_21.php) renderings released by Thor Equities. Here's what Kinetic Carnival has to say:

The recent Thor releases seemed cluttered and whimsical but these look vague and tamely dismal. The mini-parachutes that appeared to be a running theme seem to have morphed into jellyfish on sticks or mushroom lamps.

Looks like some design elements we saw at West Elm over the weekend. In any case, get them while they're hot. Last time odd Coney drawings showed up, they were immediately pulled (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/08/08/left_hand_says_right_hand_made_boo_boo_in_coney_is land.php). (Note the highrise action in the drawings.)

BONUS: There are many conspiracy theories floating around about what Thor Equities is planning with its big Coney Island redevelopment, but SpongeBob has not been among them. Until today. Turns out that Nickelodeon (http://www.nick.com/), spurned in its proposal for a Governor's Island theme park (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/441939p-372232c.html), is interested in building a "theme hotel" (http://www.nypost.com/seven/12042006/news/regionalnews/spongebob__pals_eyeing_move_to_coney_regionalnews_ rich_calder.htm), according to the Post, on the site of Astroland.

BONUS #2: Noses appear to be getting slightly bent out of shape because Thor Equities is being "pushy." Specifically, an unidentified "city official" tells Courier Life (http://24sevenbrooklyn.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17532557&BRD=2384&PAG=461&dept_id=560112&rfi=6) that the developer "should just stop pushing us." Sounds like much fun awaits.

http://www.curbed.com/2006_11_Coney%20Aquitectonica%203.jpg

http://www.curbed.com/2006_11_Coney%20Arquitectonica2.jpg

Copyright © 2006 Curbed

[SuddenImpact]

Thanks for the sobering (BrooklynRider) and somewhat more positive (BigMac) looks to the future of Coney.

What I still don't get, however, is how Thor was already making all of these public plans without having purchased Astroland, until just last week.

Before this recent purchase, was there ever any talk of Astroland and Deno's Wonder Wheel Park merging? Will Astroland remain open in 2007?

As for the future, who can best block re-zoning laws? Parks Dept? City? State? Sheldon Silver? Anyone?

[BigMac]

Gothamist
January 25, 2007

Cyclone, Meet the Leviathan at Coney Island Park

Posted by Jen Chung

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_01_cipark.JPG

The Daily News received renderings of what Coney Island may look like (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/local/story/491663p-414179c.html), if developer Thor Equities has its way. Thinkwell Design & Production designed a 6-acre plan for "Coney Island Park." Thinkwell creative director Chris Durmick said, "Whatever you come looking for at Coney Island, it's all going to be there." What happens in Coney Island, stays in Coney Island?

The centerpiece of the plan is the "Leviathan, a 100 foot roller coaster with loop-de-loops that dips under the Boardwalk before flying back aboveground." That's pretty cool, but consider this ride that News mentions: "The Aviator...would soar 120 feet, with gondolas guided individually by hand-held joysticks." You Wii can't do that!

The Coney Island Park plan, which replaces the Astroland lot that Thor bought bought, also includes "21 rides, a hotel, a manmade canal for boat rides, a glass-encased atrium and commercial space." All exciting news, even if the rendering makes Coney Island look like Atlantic City.

Kinetic Carnival wonders about that other Coney Island Park (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2007/01/welcome-to-new-coney-island-park.html). And Curbed had renderings of other Thor ideas for Coney Island (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/11/13/heres_coney_island_v_21.php), garish ideas make made many gag.

2003-2006 Gothamist LLC.

[lofter1]

Gothamist

Cyclone, Meet the Leviathan at Coney Island Park


hmmmm: Welcome to Coney Island Park (http://www.coneyislandpark.com/)

[antinimby]

Those silly wabbits, rides and games can keep an adult's interest for only so long.

This amusement park thing will get tired very quickly.

Who's going there to stay in that hotel if kiddie games are all there is to do?

Bring in casino gambling.

An almost guaranteed boon for the City, Coney Island, and the area's unemployed residents.

[lofter1]

CITY THREAT TO BEACH CONEY ISLAND REVAMP

nypost.com (http://www.nypost.com/seven/01312007/news/regionalnews/city_threat_to_beach_coney_island_revamp_regionaln ews_rich_calder.htm)
By RICH CALDER

January 31, 2007 -- The developer planning a $2 billion Vegas-style makeover for Coney Island's boardwalk strip says the project will have to be scrapped if City Hall won't let him build a luxury apartment building in the heart of the seaside district.

The Coney Island project "isn't a financially feasible investment" without the inclusion of high-rise housing along Stillwell Avenue just off the fabled seaside boardwalk, Thor Equities spokesman Lee Silberstein - speaking for company chief Joseph Sitt - told The Post.

"Everybody wants Coney Island to be revitalized, and housing has got to be part of it," Silberstein said, adding that from a planning perspective the project needs guarantees that there will be people on the boardwalk year-round.

The news that the city faces losing its biggest private investment in Coney Island's future if it doesn't meet Thor's request comes while the developer this week took a calculated gamble by beginning to clear some of the land where its planned construction would occur.

Bulldozers have begun removing longtime attractions on Thor property along Stillwell Avenue. In doing so, Thor is banking on city officials granting necessary land-use changes.

Beside housing, Thor's project calls for a water-park-themed hotel, another full-service hotel, time-share facilities, new retail, a multilevel carousel and a 4,000-foot roller coaster.

Chuck Reichental, a member of the agency that will determine how Coney Island is rezoned, said a majority of residents opposes housing in the amusement district as well as any new development exceeding the height of the 262-foot landmark Parachute Jump.

Sources familiar with informal talks between the city and Thor say these are the two biggest obstacles to the developer's plan.

A city Economic Development Corporation spokesman said, "Our priorities remain to preserve and enhance Coney Island's historic amusement area, make sure it stays open to the public and create economic opportunities for local residents - and we have serious concerns that a predominance of residential towers . . . would work against those goals."

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc. All rights reserved.

[BPC]

good riddance -- this project sucked

[Eugenious]

good riddance -- this project sucked

Coney Island is a dead area, I still can't understand how they are going to deal with the projects and the crime. They are never going to make any money there, the area is deserted in the winter and most of the year. The population that's there is mostly immigrant's, elderly and poor people. Even if you build luxury housing it will not make the area any better.

Poor planning + City meddling= Disaster

[Empire State]

We forget that Atlantic City/Miami/Las Vegas have soem pretty nasty places right off the beach too. The fact is that this area should be strictly zoned amusement and should be filled with theme parks, casinos and attractions. Thor looks like it was going to pull back on the amusements and simply put up housing. Good move by residents complaining.

[MidtownGuy]

good riddance -- this project sucked

Coney Island is a dead area, I still can't understand how they are going to deal with the projects and the crime. They are never going to make any money there, the area is deserted in the winter and most of the year. The population that's there is mostly immigrant's, elderly and poor people. Even if you build luxury housing it will not make the area any better.

I wouldn't start playing the bagpipes just yet.

[macreator]

I wouldn't start playing the bagpipes just yet.

I agree. Thor has spent some $100 M buying up land in the neighborhood -- don't think they're backing out just yet. Just throwing around their weight to make sure they get exactly what they want.

[tmg]

New York Daily News
Feb. 1, 2007
Beep sets stage for new venue
Amphitheater push in tonight's speech
BY RACHEL MONAHAN
DAILY NEWS WRITER

Creating a world-class summer amphitheater in Coney Island to rival Jones Beach will be one of Brooklyn's top priorities in 2007, Borough President Marty Markowitz said yesterday.

As he prepared to unveil his plans in his State of the Borough address tonight, Markowitz told the Daily News he wants to create a roofed venue at Asser Levy Park, on the spot where he has sponsored concerts since 1991.

"When the major, major summer tours occur ... I propose that Brooklyn - Coney Island - be an additional seasonal concert venue," Markowitz said a day ahead of his speech to be given at the Brooklyn Navy Yard's Steiner Studios.

"I'm going to be making a major investment - and working closely with the Department of Parks and Recreation and the New York City Economic Development Corporation - to make this proposal a reality."

The borough president - though often relegated to what Markowitz called being the "chief nudge" - has a capital budget of nearly $58 million for this fiscal year.

The amphitheater would fit well with other developments proposed for Coney Island after a rezoning to occur in the next year, he said.

Markowitz also has other ambitious designs for making Brooklyn a concert mecca.

By revamping Flatbush's long-shuttered Loew's Kings Theatre, Markowitz also hopes to bolster the neighborhood's economy.

"What I envision is the Beacon Theater and the Apollo Theater rolled into one," he said.

The Kings Theatre, which opened in 1929, has stood vacant for 30 years.

In its heyday, the theater hosted up to 3,000 people for movies and vaudeville acts.

Markowitz also hopes to get the ball rolling on creating a new high school dedicated to training students for well-paid careers in advertising.

In addition to new commitments, Markowitz's speech is expected to highlight his notable achievements in the last year, including the inauguration of the Brooklyn Book Festival and the docking of the borough's first cruise ships in Red Hook.

Originally published on February 1, 2007

[SuddenImpact]

Marty's plan for a theater sounds cool, but much more importantly, what's his position on the new housing? And more importantly than Marty's position on anything, will the mayor back yet another plan for more luxury housing?

I've seen new condos pop up on Stillwell and of course all the South Beach styled towers in Brighton Beach, so obviously no matter what one might think, the market is there. Question is, is this (more luxury housing) what the majority of New Yorkers want for the world's first ever amusement park?

Who said Coney Island had to be a 12 month a year entertainment district to begin with? How about just 3 or 4 months, but with good rides
like the old Thunderbolt, or Hurricane, or Parachute Jump, or Steeplechase, or the smaller ones inside the old Steeplechase Park, or many others which Coney has seen come and go over the decades.

[Dynamicdezzy]

Because in order for this to become a "real" success, business has to be year round. If you're going to invest all of that money, you're not going to want to make profit for only 3 or 4 months. I also beleive that by developers injecting coney with luxury condos, prices within the island will begin to go up. Some of the poorer residents will be financially forced to leave.

[SuddenImpact]

Because in order for this to become a "real" success, business has to be year round.

If that's the case, Thor never should have bought the land. Why should laws be changed so that they can become a "real" success? Aside from losing a piece of history, as well as some open land, what does the general public gain by turning parts of an entertainment area into more space for luxury condos.

Chasing out the poor is cool, but usually works in brown stone areas like Bed Stuy and Harlem. In areas which feature thousands of units of public housing, the poor become a tad bit harder to drive out.

[Dynamicdezzy]

Maybe I should quote next time. That's not my personal opinion. It just seems that way from my point of view. The coney island thats there now is far from great. Its a shadow of its former self. It really needs to be revitalized. I won't even argue as to whether this is the way to go or not. But, in order for these developers to have a truly successful entertainment district, the area needs to be open year round. I don't see the vegas strip open for only 3-4 months (that might have been a bad example but you know what i'm trying to get at...I hope). If brooklyn is trying to become a destination in its own right, one should be able to visit coney island during the dead of winter and not only during the summer season. As for the condos, I don't see why they shouldn't build them. Just as long as it doesn't overwhelm the area/

[MidtownGuy]

from http://www.brooklyngraphic.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=2384&dept_id=552852&newsid=17797781


02/01/2007
No fun: Coney Island demolition begins
By Stephen Witt


Such mainstay Coney Island amusements as the go-cart track and the batting cages were bulldozed last week as developer Thor Equities readies the property for its plans to transform the area into a year-round amusement/retail/residential hub.

“Thor is committed to implementing its vision for Coney Island as soon as the city finishes the rezoning process,” said Thor Equities spokesperson Lee Silberstein.

“It therefore believes it is important to complete as much site prep work as possible now,” he added.

Silberstein further explained it is clear that during construction there is going to be a time of adjustment.

“Those sites were not going to be active this summer, so rather than wait to do the site prep work at a future time, Thor made a decision to do it now,” Silberstein said.

Norman Kaufman, who runs the go-cart racing and batting cages, could not be reached for comment.

But Dennis Vourderis, spokesperson for the family-run Deno’s Wonder Wheel Amusement Park, which also controls a good-sized portion of the amusement district, said the demolition created a wide swath of open area.

“Now you can see straight through from West 12th Street all the way to the ballpark (KeySpan Stadium),” said Vourderis.

“It looks like a huge piece of property. Before, with the fencing up, you couldn’t see straight through, but now it’s all in perspective,” he added.

Vourderis said he expected the demolition as he was told he had to be out of his go-cart track, which Thor also controls, by the end of January.

“In my mind, it’s kind of exciting and I’m glad it [Coney Island redevelopment] is starting,” he said.

Vourderis said the demolition will have an impact and there will be a few painful years, but these are growing pains and ultimately the end result will be wonderful.

“It might actually be busier this summer with less venues to grab the entertainment dollar,” he said.

Vourderis, however, does not agree with Thor that the city should move quickly on rezoning the amusement area.

“I’m glad they [city] are taking their time so we can be heard as well. Things don’t happen overnight. Developers would like it [rezoning done quickly], but it’s still a democratic process,” Vourderis said.

Vourderis said he would like the rezoning done in a way that Thor can build the $2 billion amusement park he wants, but that also provides similar opportunities for Denos Wonder Wheel and other amusement owners in the district.

In regard to allowing some residential housing within the amusement area, Vourderis said it can be done, but he favors time share type housing over luxury condominiums.

Adding a retail and residential component can be done in good context and design, while still maintaining the historic aspect and amusement flavor of Coney Island, he said.

Vourderis said he sees the luxury housing going up west of the Parachute Jump and north of Surf Avenue, but not close to the boardwalk around Stillwell Avenue.

“My feeling is if you put luxury housing among all this noise, someone will have to go,” Vourderis said, adding that any zoning change should apply to all amusement owners so everybody can stay competitive.

Meanwhile, Thor Equities has also hired Christopher Woods to develop and implement a program to prepare and train residents of Coney Island for jobs that will be created as part of Thor’s vision for the revitalization of Coney Island.

Woods, a longtime Brooklyn resident, has been involved in several large development projects in to ensure that local construction and after-construction jobs go to minorities and minority- and women-owned businesses in the area.

Woods previously worked as the liaison between developer Forest City Ratner Companies and the local community in the development of the MetroTech Center in downtown Brooklyn.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Thor's Hammer.

[benzapp]

Because in order for this to become a "real" success, business has to be year round. If you're going to invest all of that money, you're not going to want to make profit for only 3 or 4 months. I also beleive that by developers injecting coney with luxury condos, prices within the island will begin to go up. Some of the poorer residents will be financially forced to leave.

The "profits" come from the increased exposure of Brooklyn, and the improved standard of living of the city.

This will help the poor people in that it will provide jobs and an increase in the quantity of housing. The poor are hurt by the housing shortage. There isn't enough housing for everybody, so a bidding war has errupted and the poor are squeezed out. As long as Brooklyn continues to accept Manhattan style zoning, the continued urbanization of the borough can only help poor people.

[Dynamicdezzy]

After taking Benzap and Sudden impacts comments into consideration, I don't see how individuals living in the projects would go anywhere (anytime soon) or be affected. They live in price controlled homes. Only those who live in houses would probably be driven out due to rising real estate prices. Coney island would have a mix of luxury condos, side by side with housing???

[antinimby]

Markowitz's speech is expected to highlight his notable achievements in the last year, including the inauguration of the Brooklyn Book Festival and the docking of the borough's first cruise ships in Red Hook.Wow.

Watch out world, here comes Markowitz. :rolleyes:

That was really his most notable accomplishments the whole year as Brooklyn Borough Prez?

A book festival?

And since when did the decision to have the Queen Mary dock in Red Hook even his?

[SuddenImpact]

Yes, Dynamic, luxury condos, side-by-side with the projects. Nothing wrong with that anywhere else on the peninsula. My beef is with (as Deno's Wonder World's Dennis Vourderis states above) putting the condos right on the entertainment district.

Supposing the new indoor water park and rest of the amusement area, despite being open 12 months out of the year, still fails to make it as a "real" success. Supposing most reading this right now are not jonesing for a February ride on the Cyclone. Even it if were open. Supposing most reading this right now, are not down for an hour long subway ride for a splash in an indoor water ride. Even if it were built.

What would then stop Thor from tearing down their own amusement park for yet more luxury condos and becoming even more of a real success?

I have nothing against luxury condos per say (though I'd love to hear Benzapp's "trickle down" theory on how it helps housing for the poor) but does it belong in what once was, and what could again be, the world's greatest amusement park???

[Dynamicdezzy]

I would personally say no, unless theres something I'm missing or not understanding. But I guess if the whole amusement park thing doesn't meet expectations, they can always fall back on those condos.

[BrooklynRider]

Sorry, the C-7 Amusement Zone ought to be preserved. Thor is already flipping their Downtown Brooklyn property - which was hailed as the "centerpiece to Brooklyn's renaissance." He's doing this after getting zoning variances.

Joe Sitt is not to be trusted. Sorry Joe.

He is going to fight for those variances and, if he gets them, flip the property. I agree with the suggestion that the lots across from Keyspan can be zoned for housing. Along the boardwalk ought to be retail and amusement - period.

To say it is not profitable flies in the face of one hundred years of history. C.I. can and will be profitable if the city would invest further in the area and make low-interest loans available to business owners there.

Thor is going out on a limb and I hope it snaps out from under them. Their arrogance ought to be slammed - hard.

[BigMac]

Gothamist
February 8, 2007

The "New Coney Island" Gets A Website

Posted by Jen Chung

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone1.JPG

If technology can see into the future, then the future is clearly Vegas for Coney Island. Gowanus Lounge looks at the new Coney Island website (http://gowanuslounge.blogspot.com/2007/02/thors-coney-island-website-launches.html) launched by Thor Equities' PR firm to trumpet the New Coney Island: THE FUTURE OF CONEY ISLAND (http://www.thefutureofconeyisland.com/).

GL notes, "The site focuses on new amusements, job opportunities, community and retail opportunities. It omits mention of more controversial plans to develop luxury housing highrises on the boardwalk." And, boy howdy, does it! The site has an entrancing sound bite-heavy Flash Intro. Here are some screencaps:

http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone2.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone3.JPG
http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone4.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone5.JPG
http://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone6.JPGhttp://www.gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2007_02_cone10.JPG

And, for some other Coney Island delights, did you realize there are Nathan's Gummi Hot Dogs (http://jschumacher.typepad.com/joe/2007/02/nathans_not_so_.html)?

2003-2007 Gothamist LLC.

[tmg]

AMEN:

http://meathaus.com/2007/02/08/coney-island-to-turn-into-shitty-mall-for-jerks/

[BrooklynRider]

The new C.I. website is a Thor tool. Comments cannot be posted, but must be submitted for review and approval. It shows lots of blurry images of crowded areas that, given Thor's history, are most likely retail areas.

Under Thor's proposal, the amusement area in C.I. will be smaller than at any other time in C.I.'s history.

The "new C.I. website" says nothing about the Taconic Investment's property sites west of Keyspan Park.

This is Thor emulating Bruce Ratner's Atlantic Yards tactics and Thor is proving to be second rate. Thor went from the company of promise to the company of lies. They want to build housing and hotels on 2/3 of the land they own. The amusement area will be less than a third of what it is now.

Developers are scumbags.

[undertoes]

So has anything changed yet. i haven't been there in a few years and the only that that had changed was the subway station....

any pics?

[ZippyTheChimp]

City Signals No-Go for Coney Island Luxury Tower
Land Use

BY ELIOT BROWN - Special to the Sun
February 15, 2007
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/48692

Developer Joseph Sitt's plan to revitalize Coney Island with new amusements financed with profits from luxury housing is facing new resistance from the city.

Yesterday, the chairwoman of the Department of City Planning, Amanda Burden, criticized Mr. Sitt's plan to include a luxury tower in the beachfront district that is zoned for amusements.

"Amusements are incompatible with immediate adjacent residential use," Ms. Burden said at a Crain's New York breakfast presentation in Midtown.

Mr. Sitt's Thor Equities has planned a $2 billion complex for the area, which would contain a large amusement component, both indoor and outdoor, and retail. The developer says it must finance the amusements with the inclusion of about 700 luxury condominiums along the boardwalk. Market studies show that they need both the extra people and added revenue from the units to make the development financially viable, Thor Equities has said. Last month, the developer threatened to scuttle its plans for the amusement park if the city disallows the residential apartments.

The city is in the midst of creating a comprehensive plan for the area, which would include rezoning to allow for the amusement complex and nearby residential development. Ms. Burden said rezoning the area for the allowance of residential units in the surrounding area is important for the project, but apartments in the heart of the amusement district would detract from the overall revitalization of Coney Island. Any zoning change would need to pass through the city's uniform land use review process, and requires approvals from the Planning Commission and the City Council.

A spokesman for Thor Equities, Lee Silberstein, said that discussions with the city are ongoing.

"We continue to work with the administration to formulate a plan that can be implemented for Coney Island," Mr. Silberstein said.

As the company dances with the city over the possible inclusion of condominiums, it has been ramping up efforts to sell the project to the community. Thor Equities launched a website for the project last week, which does not mention plans for the residential units, and recently sent out cards to neighbors promoting the potential development.

In her talk yesterday morning, Ms. Burden also said that a plan for a rezoning in the Manhattan's Garment district would soon be revealed. The rezoning would not call for the addition of residential in the area, she said, once a thriving apparel manufacturing district.

[pianoman11686]

"Amusements are incompatible with immediate adjacent residential use," Ms. Burden said at a Crain's New York breakfast presentation in Midtown.

Why?

[ZippyTheChimp]

There's enough trouble when bars and clubs are unavoidably thrown in the mix together. There are inevitable conflicts.

It's another thing to actually plan a coexistence.

I can't comment on Mr Sitt's contention that he needs the extra revenue from condos to finance the project, but that he needs these people in the mix is a big stretch.The idea behind the revitalization is to attract people to use the 4 subway lines to Coney Island year-round, not to have it supported by area residents.

And even if you accept Sitt's argument, why do these people have to be on the Boardwalk.

As I suspected, this project is a trojan horse for Sitt to introduce luxury beachfront condos. It's still the easiest way for a developer to turn a nice profit.

[lofter1]

Yeah, right, Mr. Sitt :rolleyes:

Of course all those occupants of $1M + condos will be lining up daily to ride the Cyclone.

Trojan Horse indeed ...

[SuddenImpact]

Heard there was a small article in the Metro (free daily newspaper) earlier this week about boardwalk shops being torn down. Apparently the former shop owners have all signed confidentiality agreements, but I haven't seen the article myself. If anyone has, or has an online link, please post.

[tmg]

Not quiet on Coney Island
Thor wants towers, woman says

by amy zimmer / metro new york

FEB 28, 2007

brooklyn. Dianna Carlin has been making her funky Coney Island-themed T-shirts for her Lola Staar Souvenir Boutique on the boardwalk for seven years.

She hoped to stay there after Thor Equities began buying up area property — including her building — to redevelop Coney Island. She was reluctant to sign a lease when she saw Thor’s confidentiality clause barring tenants from speaking about neighborhood plans.

Though she signed the lease last month — “I so badly wanted another summer in Coney Island” — the agreement was never executed. She was evicted days later.

“They’re trying to deceive everyone into believing they will create amusements,” Carlin said. “They just want to play hardball with the city to get the zoning changed so they can build condos on the boardwalk.” Current zoning does not allow that.

“Thor has forced everyone to sign the confidentiality clause, so when people go to the businesses and ask about it, all you can do is shrug your shoulders,” she added.

Before the confidentiality issue, Carlin had a “good relationship” with Joe Sitt, principal of Thor. When Carlin contacted Sitt’s office about her eviction, “The lawyer said the eviction had to do with negotiations with the city. I just feel like I’m this prop. It’s this game for [the developer], but it’s my business.”

And those of others.

“They’ve torn down the go-karts, bulldozed the batting cage and part of Shoot the Freak’s walls,” Carlin said. “The entire block from the subway station to the boardwalk will be vacant. When you and your family get off the train, it will look horrible. People should be aware of that so something can be done.”

She is looking for another Coney Island space.

“It’s businesses like Lola Staar’s that have given Coney Island its unique flavor and authenticity, and we hope to see it relocate and succeed in the area for many years to come,” said Yonit Golub, spokeswoman for the city’s Economic Development Corporation. “The city is committed to preserving and enhancing Coney Island’s historic amusement area, making sure it stays open to the public and creating economic opportunities for local residents. We have serious concerns that residential uses are not compatible with that vision.”

Thor declined to comment on Lola Staar, but spokesman Lee Silberstein said, “We continue to work with the city on a plan that can be implemented.”

Thor's vision

Thor Equities plans to build amusement rides, an indoor water park, retail space and hotels in Coney Island. It also wants to build luxury condos.

[BrooklynRider]

Lola gives a very detailed explanation of what Thor did to tenants and what their game plan is, here:

http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1172752990

[ZippyTheChimp]

The design for the NY Aquarium renovation has been selected.

Moved BrooklynRider's post here (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5212&page=3&highlight=aquariuml).

[lofter1]

Rather than a "Coney Island Renaissance" this might be turing into a little bit of a "Coney Island Revolution" ...

Catch the 'Save Coney Island' Wave

CURBED (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/13/catch_the_save_coney_island_wave.php)
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
by Robert

http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Coney%20Mermaid.jpg




Don't look now, but that little $2 billion Coney Island redevelopment plan seems to be attracting some opposition. Of course, last week we had the developer taking his problems public (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/07/coney_island_2_thor_boss_says_haters_just_dont_get _it.php) and suggesting that questions we being raised by "folks at the junior-most levels of government," by which we think he might have meant Planning Director Amanda Burden. Then, an e-mail started making the rounds about a "No Condos in Coney Protest Party" that "will be hosted by some of New York's most colorful burlesque performers!!" Now, the group is online as "Save Coney Island" with a a myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/saveconeyisland). A sample:Thor Equities, the developers who have bought most of Brooklyn's legendary Coney Island, are attempting build luxury high rise condo buildings right in the heart of our Amusement District. They are trying to bully the City of NYC into rezoning the Amusement District to allow them to build these exclusive high rise condos on the boardwalk. Thor Equities is silencing the Coney Island business community so that they cannot speak out about this redevelopment. They are threatening the City with the blight of vacant land and evicted businesses. These hardball negotiating tactics are just the beginning of what is to be a vicious war over the rezoning of Coney Island.Oh, and someone has started a "Save Coney Island" online petition (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/167257276?ltl=1173706373). More to come.

· Save Coney Island (http://www.myspace.com/saveconeyisland) [myspace]
· Save Coney Island: The Party Begins (http://britinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2007/03/save-coney-island-party-begins.html)
· Coney Island #2: Thor Boss Says Haters Just Don't Get It (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/07/coney_island_2_thor_boss_says_haters_just_dont_get _it.php) [Curbed]

***

What Can You Do To Save Coney Island- Part One

Please write a letter to Planning Director, Amanda Burden

Amanda Burden is NYC's Planning Director. She plays a very important role in determining whether or not Thor Equities will get the rezoning they desire to build luxury condos on the boardwalk in Coney Island. She has made a bold stand against Thor Equities. You can read more about her position in the article that came out in the New York Observer today!

http://www.observer.com/20070312/20070312_Matthew_Schuerman_finance_newsstory1.asp

[B]Please write to Amanda Burden to let her know that you support her position that there should be NO CONDOS in the Amusement District. The area is currently zoned C7 for Amusements only! This C7 zoning should be preserved!

You can email her at:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcp.html

Even if it is just a brief note to show your support!

Please let her know that she has the support of the Coney Islands community!

Or, please sign this online petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/167257276?ltl=1173754589

[Eugenious]

Rather than a "Coney Island Renaissance" this might be turing into a little bit of a "Coney Island Revolution" ...

Catch the 'Save Coney Island' Wave

CURBED (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/13/catch_the_save_coney_island_wave.php)
Tuesday, March 13, 2007
by Robert

http://www.curbed.com/2007_03_Coney%20Mermaid.jpg




Don't look now, but that little $2 billion Coney Island redevelopment plan seems to be attracting some opposition. Of course, last week we had the developer taking his problems public (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/07/coney_island_2_thor_boss_says_haters_just_dont_get _it.php) and suggesting that questions we being raised by "folks at the junior-most levels of government," by which we think he might have meant Planning Director Amanda Burden. Then, an e-mail started making the rounds about a "No Condos in Coney Protest Party" that "will be hosted by some of New York's most colorful burlesque performers!!" Now, the group is online as "Save Coney Island" with a a myspace page (http://www.myspace.com/saveconeyisland). A sample:Thor Equities, the developers who have bought most of Brooklyn's legendary Coney Island, are attempting build luxury high rise condo buildings right in the heart of our Amusement District. They are trying to bully the City of NYC into rezoning the Amusement District to allow them to build these exclusive high rise condos on the boardwalk. Thor Equities is silencing the Coney Island business community so that they cannot speak out about this redevelopment. They are threatening the City with the blight of vacant land and evicted businesses. These hardball negotiating tactics are just the beginning of what is to be a vicious war over the rezoning of Coney Island.Oh, and someone has started a "Save Coney Island" online petition (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/167257276?ltl=1173706373). More to come.

· Save Coney Island (http://www.myspace.com/saveconeyisland) [myspace]
· Save Coney Island: The Party Begins (http://britinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2007/03/save-coney-island-party-begins.html)
· Coney Island #2: Thor Boss Says Haters Just Don't Get It (http://www.curbed.com/archives/2007/03/07/coney_island_2_thor_boss_says_haters_just_dont_get _it.php) [Curbed]

***

What Can You Do To Save Coney Island- Part One

Please write a letter to Planning Director, Amanda Burden

Amanda Burden is NYC's Planning Director. She plays a very important role in determining whether or not Thor Equities will get the rezoning they desire to build luxury condos on the boardwalk in Coney Island. She has made a bold stand against Thor Equities. You can read more about her position in the article that came out in the New York Observer today!

http://www.observer.com/20070312/20070312_Matthew_Schuerman_finance_newsstory1.asp

[B]Please write to Amanda Burden to let her know that you support her position that there should be NO CONDOS in the Amusement District. The area is currently zoned C7 for Amusements only! This C7 zoning should be preserved!

You can email her at:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/maildcp.html

Even if it is just a brief note to show your support!

Please let her know that she has the support of the Coney Islands community!

Or, please sign this online petition:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/167257276?ltl=1173754589


OH GAWD...JUST SHUT UP ...there is NOTHING to save over there...

http://www.gothamist.com/images/2005_04_shootthefreak-thumb.jpg

:D

[antinimby]

I'm with them. Don't think condos belong there.

Surely there are enough underutilised land in the outlying area where they can build the condos instead.

[lofter1]

Exactly ^^^ this is about what Coney Island will become for the next 100 years. Million dollar condos with ocean views have plenty of other options.

Not here.

[ZippyTheChimp]

It's only one small section of Coney Island that's at issue - the area zoned C7, south of Surf Ave, east from Keyspan. There are other residential development opportunities in Coney Island.

Joe Sitt has already turned over property he owned west of Keyspan. My impression is that he's an amateur in NY real estate politics, and may have gotten in over his head. His "gag order" on leaseholders was clumsy; anything they might have said is less a story than the act itself.


From Kinetic Carnival (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2007/03/city-planner-amanda-burden-stands-in.html)

City Planner Amanda Burden Stands In Sitt's Way

Thor Equities' Joe Sitt spoke with Matthew Schuerman at the New York Observer last week. "We’re stuck in the bureaucracy," exclaims Sitt. He wants Planning Director Amanda Burden to get out of his way.

At a Crain's New York Business breakfast last month Burden said that condos should not be 'adjacent' to amusements regarding the plans Thor Equities has for Coney Island. The city has recently been more poised than ever to stand firm for keeping the amusements in Coney. However, the city has made reservations for some residential to be part of the project.

Sitt told the New York Observer, “It’s just crazy that somebody from government would want us to mothball this entire thing for five or 10 years, to leave it to another administration to make it happen.”



The NY Observer reported:

In some ways, Mr. Sitt jumped into the game too late to replicate the way another Brooklyn developer, Bruce Ratner, convinced the city and state to support a sports arena right next to a massive apartment village. Mr. Ratner saw a desolate rail yard in central Brooklyn and used it as a wedge to create an eight-million-square foot development. Mr. Sitt began buying property only four years ago, after the city constructed a minor-league baseball stadium and had already made its mind up to forge a community-led master plan for the neighborhood.

On the other hand, Mr. Sitt—unlike Mr. Ratner—never needs to use eminent domain. He has spent $150 million buying out dozens of land owners, according to reports, prying heirlooms from the families which created Nathan’s Hot Dogs and brought the Ferris wheel to New York City with the promise that he would put them to worthy use. After flipping land west of Keyspan Park to a residential developer for $90 million, Mr. Sitt is left with the four-block area next to the Cyclone roller coaster, the so-called amusement core.

Mr. Sitt contends that 975 residential units—an unspecified mix of time-shares and condos—would provide the eyes and ears (and pocketbooks) that would make the complex work year round, to say nothing of compensating for the losses he expects from running the amusement area. On a total square-foot basis, according to figures from Thor Equities, Mr. Sitt’s development firm, the apartments would constitute 34 percent of the square footage of the complex, while amusements would constitute only 14 percent. (Hotels, retail and parking would make up the rest.) The actual land area covered by the footprints of the residential towers would be much smaller, however—in part because one of the towers would rise 50 stories.



Seems the units have jumped another 275 more than last reported by Thor. And they are open about the obvious diminished amusement area which now would consist of only 14 percent.

In the report, Dick Zigun who for the most part supports Thor, said, “Thor is not necessarily the enemy. A lot of what they are proposing is exactly what we want.”...“We want affluent people from around the world to come and spend a week here and spend a lot of money. But people who come here for a week want the noise and excitement; people raising families complain. People renting apartments across the street complain on a regular basis as it is.”

He added, “If Thor presented a plan that was 85 percent amusements and 15 percent condos, I would not vote for it—but it would not surprise me if it went through.”

The debate which until recently has been dubious, now stands between what specific area Thor is intending to use as residential.

Laid out in September 2005 the CIDC approved a "Strategic Plan" which permitted residential construction north and west of Keyspan. But Thor is continually focusing on the area that is reserved for "active and historic amusements" Though the city still stresses that the two types of zoning next to each other: amusements and residential would not be appropriate, they are leaving open the question of how they would co-exist. Which leaves the debate still wide open and not much further ahead. At least until the Department of City Planning issues zoning recommendations by this summer. And the CIDC begins the land-use process by the end of the year. The process itself takes almost a year.

Though, Joe Sitt said he was led to believe that the city would approve residential uses after a statement by Bloomberg calling for "a diverse use of a piece of land if it’s really going to succeed.” The city said they will be carefull to make sure that all the constituencies are on board.

In the article Joe Sitt demonstrates that he will not be intimidated by the city. Thor will go to the extent of blighting Coney Island by flattening everything it owns. This is the weapon they will use to make the city relent and give in to their demands. It's now a matter of seeing how strong and tough Ms. Burden will be in standing up against Thor's hammer.

[Eugenious]

City Planner Amanda Burden Stands In Sitt's Way

At a Crain's New York Business breakfast last month Burden said that condos should not be 'adjacent' to amusements regarding the plans Thor Equities has for Coney Island.




Is'nt it funny how these urban planning officials dont have anything to say when an area rots and lays dormant like ConeyIsland has for decades and all of a sudden when a developer musters enough guts to take on this project they threaten to mothball the whole thing over such a ridiculous notion as that there should not be condos next to the amusement area.

LISTEN PEOPLE THERE ARE CONDOS EVERYWHERE, LET IT GO...

This Amanda Burden needs to stop trying to get her name in the papers and do something constructive to make sure everyone is satisfied with the conclusion. Because if Thor backs out the whole city of Brooklyn and Coney Island will take a hit for a long time, all because of some Ivy League educated upper west side high society "dame" who's Bloombergs pal.

[ZippyTheChimp]

LISTEN PEOPLE THERE ARE CONDOS EVERYWHERE.That's the point we're making.

[BrooklynRider]

I got an idea of what Sitt envisions as a "amusement complex." There's a place n Denver called "The Pavillions." Please God, don't let C.I. turn into that kind of horrible place.

[NIMBYkiller]

I think they might actually do this one right. The only thing I'm worried about is that since it's going be on the beach, and so far north, it wont draw too many people in the winter. The fact that the water park will be indoors will help stave off the winter losses, but I'm still a little concerned. For the summer monthes though, it'll be insane.

BTW, what's up with the Randalls Island water park? I have a feeling that will be a bit more of a success than a water park at coney island, almost to the point I'd say screw the water park, just go with roller coasters(or maybe a mixed ride???). So far, I like the plans.

The stuff about condos though, are there any solid plans for that?

I'm glad to see they put a ferry link into the plan. Hopefully it'll also run out to Long Island and down south to Jersey. Perhaps something connecting all the area amusement attractions(Randalls Island, South Street Seaport, Coney Island, Seaside Park(Toms River, NJ)), and Jones Beach. Obviously other stops would be made, but I think having all these waterfront attractions is just screaming ferry.

[rincony]

yes coney island look kind ugly but I love to go there. I love going away from the big city to nice ocean breeze and walk with russians. Jajaja. :) well when I move to nyc I will visit more. I see new plans to change. Well that is good. make more beautiful for new people and kids. :cool:

[BPC]

... This Amanda Burden needs to stop trying to get her name in the papers and do something constructive to make sure everyone is satisfied with the conclusion. Because if Thor backs out the whole city of Brooklyn and Coney Island will take a hit for a long time, all because of some Ivy League educated upper west side high society "dame" who's Bloombergs pal.


Sorry, this does not work as a class struggle. The people who enjoy Coney Island are not WASPy Ivy Leaguers, they are regular working folks of all colors. Try visiting that stretch of beach during a warm summer weekend to see who is using it. I agree that it needs sprucing up, but there must be some way to preserve this historic part of the City for everyone.

[pianoman11686]

CYCLONE SWIRLS AROUND CONEY ISLAND BUILDER

By RICH CALDER

New York Post Online Edition (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262007/news/regionalnews/cyclone_swirls_around_coney_island_builder_regiona lnews_rich_calder.htm)

March 26, 2007 -- City officials have come out swinging against the developer promising a Vegas-glitz makeover for Coney Island's prime real estate - saying he's nothing but a huckster with a history of flipping properties for a fast buck.

Several officials told The Post they're concerned that Joseph Sitt's next selling spree could involve the massive assemblage of beachfront land his Thor Equities has bought up in Coney Island - especially if City Hall doesn't allow his planned $2 billion entertainment complex to include luxury housing.

"The guy has a track record of flipping land for big bucks," said one source close to the project. "He's done it already in Coney Island and other Brooklyn projects like [Downtown Brooklyn's] Albee Square Mall, and who's to say he won't play the city again?"

Chuck Reichenthal, a member of the city's Coney Island Development Corp., is worried Thor will hold up the plan either by selling out or by holding out to see if the next mayor is willing to allow the housing.

"I look out my [Surf Avenue] office window, and what I see now is very sad," he said. "They're beginning to create a ghost town."

The war over Coney Island's future came to a boil last month when City Planning Chairwoman Amanda Burden said at a Crain's breakfast presentation that there was no room for housing in the seaside plan.

"Amusements are incompatible with immediate adjacent residential use," Burden said.

Lynn Kelly, president of the CIDC, was more cautious about criticizing Sitt.

"Is there a concern? Sure. But we're moving forward with our rezoning plan, and we're hopeful that, once it's complete, the developer will create something great for Coney Island," she said.

Other officials were more skeptical.

They note that when Sitt bought the Albee Square Mall on Fulton Street five years ago for $24 million, he talked about giving the gritty site the same type of Vegas-style makeover he's now pitching for Coney Island.

Instead, Sitt spent $10 million rehabbing the mall - which he renamed The Gallery at Fulton Street - but never followed through on his grand plan.

Then after the city rezoned to allow for larger development there, Sitt sat on the mall before finally agreeing last January to sell it for $125 million.

"It's a great deal for him and it's going to bring larger-scale development there by the new buyer, but it's not going to be the 'Bellagio of malls' that Sitt said he was going to turn it into," a source said.

In Coney Island, Sitt last year sold one of the properties he bought for $90 million - a 168,000-square-foot tract known as the Washington Bath House site - after the city said it would allow residential development there.

A spokesman for Thor Equities, Lee Silberstein, insisted that the company isn't planning to back out of Coney Island.

Thor is "confident that working [with the Bloomberg administration], it will be able to rebuild Coney Island as a place worthy of its great legacy," he said.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03262007/photos/news002.jpg

rich.calder@nypost.com

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[antinimby]

CONEY IS. CONDO PULLBACK

By RICH CALDER

March 28, 2007 (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03282007/news/regionalnews/coney_is__condo_pullback_regionalnews_rich_calder. htm) -- A developer proposing a $2 billion, Vegas-style entertainment complex for Coney Island is desperately trying to convince City Hall to back it by shifting more than 900 planned luxury condo units away from the boardwalk and into one 40-story tower.

Project spokesman Lee Silberstein revealed at a recent community meeting that Thor Equities is considering confining the project's controversial residential housing to Stillwell Avenue's west side near Surf Avenue.

That's a change from the previous proposal, which called for spreading the housing out in four Stillwell locations within the proposed 425,000-square-foot amusement complex.

The new plan would dramatically reduce a 515-foot-high tower slated for the Stillwell boardwalk to a height similar to the nearby 262-foot Parachute Jump; that tower would contain time-share residences.

The revisions would allow riders of the nearby Cyclone roller coaster to retain Parachute Jump views.

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[NIMBYkiller]

Any move for upper class housing, or even time shares, IMO, is a dissaster.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://www.wnyc.org/news/articles/76404

Protest Against Coney Island Development

by Kathleen Horan

March 30, 2007 —The beach, the boardwalk and the Cyclone are just days away, as Coney Island prepares to open for business this Sunday. But before the season begins, a group against some of the area's proposed development will protest later today. WNYC's Kathleen Horan has more.

REPORTER: The protesters are part of a group called “Save Coney Island.” They're fighting the plan to build luxury condominiums on the boardwalk. The condos are part of the new re-design of Coney Island by Thor Equities, the company that's bought much of Coney Island's prime real estate over the past few years. Diana Carlin owns a popular souvenir shop on the boardwalk and says she's not against change but it should be suited to the environment.

CARLIN: I think it should be a lot more but it should be an amusement park - not luxury condos.

REPORTER: A spokesman for Thor Equities says the company shares the view that Coney Island needs to be saved which is why it has proposed a plan to invest $2 billion in its future. A spokesperson for the city's Economic Development Corporation says they're still doing outreach with all the stakeholders and have not yet approved a final strategic plan.


http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=9&aid=68231

Protesters: No Condos In Coney

March 30, 2007

Costumes and color lined the steps of City Hall Friday in protest of redevelopment plans for Coney Island.

Protesters marched in a "No Condos in Coney" demonstration, to fight part of real estate developer Thor Equities' $2 billion plan to rezone the area for residential use -- which they say will take away from the park's character.

"What we do not want to have happen is to have condominium development for the well-to-do to have a great white-sound, south-facing beach as their own playground,” said Richard Egan, the co-host of the annual Mermaid Parade on Coney Island.

“It's an amusement district, it's for the community, it's for people to come to and visit,” said Miss Cyclone 2007 Angie Pontani. “It's not a place for luxury condominiums. It really speaks against its history and I think the real promise of its future."

Thor Equities says the majority of the land they purchased will be used for an indoor water park and other related entertainment uses.

[Eugenious]

http://www.villagevoice.com/images/logo.gif (http://www.villagevoice.com/)

Coney Island's Last Ride? The Bulldozer!
Behind the scenes, a scary game of chicken between the city and a developer who dreams of high-rise condos that won't amuse you
by Neil deMause
April 10th, 2007 11:48 AM

The season's first visitors to Coney Island can already see that the batting cages and the go-karts along Stillwell Avenue are gone, as is a miniature golf course that went up just a few years ago. From the base of the Wonder Wheel on West 12th Street all the way to the bus lot behind Nathan's, bulldozers have cut a large swath, leaving little more than barren asphalt and a few stray tires surrounded by a plywood fence. It looks like a construc- tion site. And that's what it's meant to be, according to its owner, Thor Equities.

Two summers ago, Thor CEO Joseph Sitt announced a huge redevelopment project in Coney Island, featuring an indoor water park, a hotel, and even a rooftop landing pad for blimps. All this would be financed by beachfront condos towering as high as 50 stories over the boardwalk.

Sitt says high-priced housing is vital to his business plan; the city insists that condos in Coney Island would violate the hard-fought rezoning plan that the community and the city's Economic Development Corporation have hashed out over the past several years.

Thor's plans sparked a recent "Save Coney Island" protest on the steps of City Hall, including marching bands and at least one mermaid (with sideburns).

But what's at stake is far more than a view of the Parachute Jump unobstructed by balconied towers. While Thor denies it, denizens of the amusement district fear the developer is preparing to raze and leave fallow as much as two-thirds of Coney's amusement district. The idea would be to hold the heart of Coney Island hostage to force the city to rezone and let Thor cash in on condos.

If Sitt follows through with stated threats to wait for a new mayoral administration in 2010, Coney Island's already diminished amusement district could spend years as a torn-up wasteland, leaving only the Cyclone, Dino's Wonder Wheel Park, Sideshows by the Seashore, and Nathan's standing amid a vast empty plain.

"You're still going to have a beach," Charles Denson, an author of two books on Coney Island history, says of a post-Sitt era. "You're still going to have a boardwalk, if they still fix it up. And the memory of Coney Island will survive. But I think people will be disappointed when they come down and just see vacant lots."

Dianna Carlin, a boardwalk shopkeeper who was forced to close last month after a run-in with Thor, says company officials "are sacrificing the livelihood of small businesses such as mine and using the prospect of a shut-down Coney Island as leverage against the city in their negotiations." This summer's demolitions, she warns, are just "the beginning of what is to be a vicious war over the rezoning of Coney Island."

Coney Island has been considered ripe for redevelopment seemingly ever since there was a Coney Island. By the 1940s, two of Coney's three Golden Age amusement parks, Dreamland and Luna Park, had succumbed to fire; Robert Moses, the city's great redeveloper who never hesitated to remake a neighborhood with a sweep of his hand, replaced them with the New York Aquarium and the Luna Park Houses. Moses also bulldozed the ancient working-class neighborhood known as the Gut, handing over the land to Fred Trump, father of Donald, to build still more high-rise housing.

Once Steeplechase Park, with its famed mechanical horse-race ride and soaring glass gaming pavilion, shut down in the mid '60s, all that was left was an echo of the beachfront's onetime glory: the landmarked Cyclone and Wonder Wheel, and around them a collection of small-time amusements offering arcade games, Skee-Ball, and the occasional carnival ride and spook house.

But the crowds never stopped coming. In the 1970s, when the great old bathhouses along the boardwalk seemed to be burning daily, millions of people a year still visited. Even now, the tattooed hipsters who visit Sideshows by the Seashore or the annual Mermaid Parade are still far outnumbered by the throngs of mostly working-class families who descend on Coney Island every summer for the same reasons they always have: sand, sun, and entertainment, all for the price of a subway ride and a fistful of game tokens.

"It's always been popular with people of small means who can't afford to go anywhere else," Denson says. It's also served as a place for new immigrants to gain a foothold in running businesses. "You didn't need a lot of money to get in," he adds. "You could run a game or an attraction for the season and make enough money to get ahead."

Rumored casinos and other phantom developments never materialized, and for decades it seemed Coney Island would remain in slowly crumbling stasis. Then, in 2001, Mayor Rudy Giuliani spent $39 million to build KeySpan Park for the minor league Brooklyn Cyclones on the old Steeplechase site. (He also razed the derelict Thunderbolt next door, sending in bulldozers at 6 a.m. to pre-empt those who were hoping to have the 75-year-old wooden coaster landmarked and perhaps reopened.) Another $240 million in MTA money followed to build the airy new Stillwell Avenue subway terminal, and city-built comfort stations and playgrounds began sprouting along the beachfront.

In 2003, the city convened the Coney Island Development Corporation (CIDC), made up mostly of well-connected local business owners and city functionaries, to help shape the neighborhood's future. The strategic plan that emerged presented a bifurcated Coney: West of Stillwell Avenue, on the mostly vacant blocks around the baseball stadium, would go mixed-income housing, with the ground floors devoted to "entertainment-oriented" retail such as restaurants and gaming arcades. To the east, the area currently zoned "C7" for amusements would remain sacrosanct, to protect Coney Island's traditional attractions from neighbors who might complain about "Bump-bump-bump your ass off!" blaring into their apartment windows every night.

Joe Sitt, however, had plans of his own. In March 2005, Sitt bought the old Washington Baths site west of the stadium for $13 million; 14 months later, once it had become clear that the CIDC plan would allow housing on that site, he flipped it to an investment group for $90 million. Thor poured this money into more purchases, this time in the heart of the amusement district. By the time he purchased the land under the Astroland amusement park last fall, Sitt had title to virtually all of central Coney Island save for the isolated islands of Nathan's and Dino's, whose owners decided to stay put, and the city-owned Cyclone, run by Astroland under a long-term lease.
A big-box-store developer who made his name and fortune with the Ashley Stewart line of plus-size clothing stores, Sitt reassured anyone within earshot that he was a local boy, having grown up in nearby Gravesend; he skipped school so often to head for the boardwalk, he said, that his friends called him "Joey Coney Island." He boasted of talks with movie theater chains, with Ripley's Believe It or Not, with Nickelodeon for a "family hotel" (with time-shared condos). For the amusement district, Thor issued a steady stream of artists' renderings, each more dazzlingly grandiose than the last, featuring futuristic buildings surrounded by holographic mermaids, a giant elephant with a "Mom" tattoo, and, inexplicably, Batman. Locals, who had seen so many plans come and go over the years, were cautiously optimistic. "It is the natural order of things for New York City to keep rebuilding itself," Coney Island USA director and Mermaid Parade impresario Dick Zigun told the Voice two summers ago regarding the early plans. "It could be exciting."

The first signs of trouble came last year, when Thor handed out month-to-month leases at increased rents to tenants of its newly acquired three-block stretch of storefronts along the boardwalk. Two refused to sign: Steve Bitzekas, who runs the Ocean Grill House west of Stillwell, and Carlin, proprietor of the Lola Staar Souvenir Boutique next door to the historic Ruby's restaurant. For Carlin, the main sticking point was a gag order that would prohibit her from saying anything in public about Coney Island redevelopment. Worse yet, she says, violations would be decided by Thor Equities, not a court of law.

Finally, in January, Carlin gave in and agreed to Thor's lease. "I went to their office and met with them and signed the agreement," she says. "The following day, Sam Sabin from Thor Equities called me up—he had to talk to me about something really important. I asked him, 'Did this have anything to do with the agreement I signed yesterday?' And he said, 'No, no, everything's fine with that. I just have to talk to you about something private.' "

The next day, she says, "he came to my studio and served me with eviction papers."

Thor spokesman Tom Corsillo wouldn't comment on Carlin's situation, beyond saying that "all tenants on the boardwalk were offered the same opportunity to renew their agreements" and "a couple did not." What seems likely, though, is that Sitt had gotten fed up with the city's refusal to allow condos on his land and decided to start playing hardball. On January 30, Thor spokesman Lee Silberstein told the Post that without condos, the entire construction project would be scrapped. Two weeks later, at a Crain's breakfast meeting, city planning director Amanda Burden countered that "amusements are incompatible with immediately adjacent residential use." It was about then that Thor's bulldozers arrived on West 12th Street and the demolitions began.

"Joe Sitt had always been very friendly with me and told me that if I ever needed anything, just to give him a call," Carlin recalls. "So I called him every hour to try to get through to him." Finally, she reached Thor lawyer Joseph Matalon, who, according to Carlin, "said that their decision on whether or not they were going to proceed with this eviction against me was contingent upon the results of their negotiations with the city"—no condos, no lease. "He was telling me," she says, "that I was being used as a bargaining pawn: We're serious about building these condos on the boardwalk, and if we can't do that, we're just going to destroy Coney Island."

At the same time, Astroland operator Carol Hill Albert, who'd sold out to Thor for $30 million in November, was approaching her new landlord with an offer to extend her lease into 2008 if development plans were stalled. Instead, she was told, the park her family had operated since 1962 had to be out by the end of December so Thor could "clear the property."
According to Corsillo, the company intends to turn the land into a "Coney Park" with a hotel and a roller coaster that would dip under the boardwalk. Thor hasn't supplied opening or groundbreaking dates, though, and given that this is a company that has previously floated such ever-changing plans as an offshore Ferris wheel and a roller coaster that would run through buildings, locals are dubious. "I haven't seen any plans," Albert says. "What they're going to put here is very much a question."

For historian Denson, it's a familiar story. In 1966, he recalls, Fred Trump bought Steeplechase Park in hopes of building high-rise apartments. Then, when the Lindsay administration balked at a zoning change, Trump razed the historic complex, hosting a party where guests smashed the Steeplechase pavilion's famed glass facade with bricks. "He figured once it was torn down," Denson says, "they would have to let him build it. The city didn't—they took it over for a park—but Trump made a huge profit."
Joe Sitt, says Denson, "has taken a page from the Fred Trump playbook: If you don't let me have my way, I'm going to tear everything down, and you'll have a vacant lot."

The most damning indication that Joe Sitt is a mere "flipper"—less interested in building anything than in buying land, getting it rezoned, and selling it for a quick buck—is that he's done that before, say his detractors. At the other end of Brooklyn is another working-class mecca that was likewise purchased by Thor Equities amid promises of a rebirth, only to end up the target of a get-rich-quick condo scheme, while local business owners were left struggling to survive.

The Albee Square Mall off Fulton Street, with its mix of discount jewelry shops, fast-food joints, and a venerable Toys "R" Us, may seem an unlikely cultural icon. As the focal point of the nearby Fulton Mall shopping drag, though, it's long been a popular hangout, earning a memorable shout-out from Biz Markie on his 1988 debut album Goin' Off ("Any other shoppers that try to compare/There ain't no way they could hang out with Albee Square"). Two decades later, even as neighboring Fort Greene and Boerum Hill fill up with young white gentrifiers, the mall's clientele remains overwhelmingly African American, as are many of its shopkeepers and cart vendors.

In 2001, Sitt bought the mall from Forest City Ratner for $25 million and, say merchants, promised to rehab it. Some changes were made: The entrance got a new facade, and the apparel store Forever 21 took up residence in the outdoor storefront along Fulton Street. Thor claims it spent $10 million on what it renamed the Gallery at Fulton Street but did not respond to repeated requests for an itemized accounting.
Inside, there's little sign of an influx of cash. Escalators are out of order (for more than a year, shopkeepers say), the half-empty food court bears a jury-rigged patchwork of floor tiles, and the bathrooms are a disaster. "Before [Sitt] got there, it was ragtag, but the place was full, and it was making money," says Randy Leigh, a board member of Families United for Racial and Economic Equality (FUREE), which has been organizing the mall's shopkeepers and customers. "When Thor bought it, [Sitt] got rid of all the amenities. He got rid of the restaurants, so people coming to shop had no place to eat. He claims he does so much, and all he does is run the place down."

Shortly after Sitt bought Albee Square, the Bloomberg administration launched a massive rezoning of downtown Brooklyn intended to carpet the district with office towers. Sitt presented the city with plans for a 60-story combined hotel/office/condo tower on the site of the mall's parking garage. Instead, in early February, a different consortium of developers announced they had agreed to buy the mall, demolish it, and erect a still larger skyscraper to take advantage of the new zoning. Thor's take: $125 million, for a profit of a cool 400 percent.

Albee Square's shopkeepers only learned their stores were targeted for the wrecking ball when they read about it in the paper. Eric Waltower, a former street vendor along Fulton Street who made the leap to a storefront selling women's accessories two years ago, says his time in the mall "has been great—other than they're trying to sell the place without informing me." He and his wife have put at least $15,000 into the store, he says, an outlay they'll have to eat if evicted.

Whether that will happen is anyone's guess. The city's Department of Housing Preservation and Development, which must sign off on the condo plan because it involves city-owned land in an urban renewal site, abruptly canceled a scheduled hearing last month without explanation; FUREE organizers say they later learned it was because the consortium's housing developer had backed out. Now shopkeepers are in limbo, waiting to hear from their landlord about their future. "You cannot get in touch with them," says Teddy Priftakis, who has run the Top Potato in the mall's food court for the past 26 years. "Since three years ago, nobody returns my calls."
FUREE has likewise struck out in repeated attempts to meet with Sitt or other Thor officials. "If what he's doing here happens in Coney Island," says Leigh, "Coney Island's in a lot of trouble."


Escapades like the Albee Square bait and switch haven't won Joe Sitt any friends at City Hall, according to sources who've spoken with city officials. Publicly, both sides say that "negotiations continue," but it looks more like a game of chicken, with Sitt and the city each waiting to see who blinks first. Last month, Sitt told the Observer that the city was forcing him to "mothball this entire thing for five to 10 years." (Asked under what conditions Sitt would be forced to "mothball" it, Thor spokesman Corsillo said he'd get back to the Voice, then never did.) In the past week or so, Sitt has switched to a more conciliatory tone, offering to condense his condos into one building west of Stillwell—albeit a 40-story one—and approaching some Coney merchants, including Carlin, about new leases.
The city, meanwhile, has held firm, with CIDC president Lynn Kelly's public statements swearing allegiance to the strategic plan—which means no residential buildings in the amusement zone. Yet the city itself isn't blameless for the mess. By declaring at the very beginning of the CIDC's deliberations that Coney Island should become a "year-round" attraction—in part to provide more than seasonal jobs for residents of the economically depressed housing projects that Moses scattered across the beachfront in the '60s—the city set in motion two powerful forces.

First, it attracted the attention of developers like Sitt, who would never have thrown around multimillion-dollar offers without the prospect of evicting the kiddie rides for more lucrative ventures like restaurants and movie theaters, which haven't been allowed previously under C7 zoning. Simultaneously, the city spooked the traditional amusement operators, who saw little room for their inherently seasonal attractions in the new Coney Island. Asked why she sold the land her family had owned for nearly 45 years, Astroland's Albert says that "all the discussion was that the city wanted a year-round entertainment area"—and roofing over Astroland wasn't in her budget.

For now, Astroland sports "Open for 2007" signs, and its pirate ship will swing thrill-seekers high above Surf Avenue for one fi nal season. Albert, who says that before Thor came to town she was about to embark on a set of major purchases ("We were going to buy a new spinning coaster—I loved that ride"), is instead scrambling to find a smaller space where she can relocate some of her rides. "You can't support a payroll of 350 people surrounded by a construction site," she says, "whereas a smaller operation could survive that." Though Sitt declared last week that he's willing to keep Astroland open in some form for 2008, Albert says she's heard nothing from the developer. She's asked the Parks Department about renting out West 10th Street, which runs between her current property and the Cyclone, but so far nothing has been finalized. Meanwhile, she says she has to decide within weeks whether to sell off her remaining rides and close up shop for good.

"Although half of Coney Island as we have known it will not be here next year, Coney Island will be alive and open next year," insists Zigun. He rattles off the places that will still be around: the Cyclone, Dino's, Zigun's Sideshows by the Seashore, the El Dorado bumper cars, Nathan's, the aquarium. "There will be a smaller Coney Island, but plenty to do here next year."

Others are less optimistic. Albert says others in the amusement industry have told her that even if Thor started construction promptly, the disruption would drive attendance down by 25 percent to 50 percent, particularly among school groups that would face traffic and parking tie-ups. In a low-margin business like amusements, she worries that could leave the remaining operators one rainy summer away from economic ruin.
Meanwhile, the biggest game being played on Coney Island is the game of chicken between Sitt and the city. Privately, many Coney Islanders say that if Bloomberg really wants to call Sitt's bluff, he'll threaten to swoop in and seize any vacant land by eminent domain. But no one thinks that's likely. More realistically, the best-case scenario is that once the city starts the rezoning process in June, Sitt will realize his condo dream is a non-starter and either quickly agree to build something that fits the CIDC's vision or sell to someone who does. In the worst, the stalemate drags on for years, with Sitt shuttering every building he owns—or flipping the land to another developer who likewise sits on the property while deciding how to develop it.

Even that, though, would be preferable to many than the city allowing condos on the boardwalk, which they see as the death knell for Coney Island as New Yorkers have known it. "An amusement area like Coney Island is organic," says Denson, who runs the Coney Island Historical Society and with Carlin is the driving force behind the Save Coney Island movement. "It's transformed year by year—new rides are brought in, new attractions. But once residential is put in there, it's fixed. For a hundred years, that property is gone."
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[BrooklynRider]

Excellent article.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I wish Joe Sitt would get up and leave.

[NIMBYkiller]

Very good article. This dude definately seems like bad news. Hopefully CIDC will have enough power to save the area

[BrooklynRider]

It's interesting, because this is a situation where EVERYONE supports development and the developer is balking. Joe Sitt is bad, bad news - and a liar to boot.

[Eugenious]

It's interesting, because this is a situation where EVERYONE supports development and the developer is balking. Joe Sitt is bad, bad news - and a liar to boot.

The city ain't the best news either. It allows this to keep happening to this priceless area which will be kept in this sorry state for years to come now.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Early summer at Coney Island
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4254/coney24um0.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coney24um0.jpg) http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/816/coney25da9.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coney25da9.jpg) http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4005/coney26de8.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coney26de8.jpg)

Sitt's handiwork
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/1898/coney27fj6.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=coney27fj6.jpg)

[BrooklynRider]

Parks Dep’t in Talks To Transfer Coney Land To Developers

Should Be Used for Parks, Say Locals
By Sarah Ryley
Brooklyn Daily Eagle

CONEY ISLAND — Taconic Investment Partners is looking to expand the footprint of its planned waterfront development, anchored by the former Child’s Restaurant, and is negotiating with the city to do so by using adjacent land controlled by the Parks Department.

Ari Shalam, a Taconic senior vice president, says the negotiations are complicated because the transfer of land controlled by the city’s Department of Parks and Recreation requires state legislation, and the replacement of an equal amount of land elsewhere in the vicinity.

Several people in the community, when made aware of the negotiations, say a private developer shouldn’t get control of the land. They say the vacant land and waterfront parking lots should be turned into a public park or used for amusements accessible to the working class, such as a new home for Astroland Park.

“They want to put luxury housing in, but when you come down here it’s a very democratic place — you see every variety of human being that you can imagine,” says Coney Island resident Ida Sanhoff. “When they put in this luxury housing, how are those people going to feel about going to the beach and sitting next to all these poor people?”

Taconic, which controls a 99-year lease of the landmarked Child’s building and owns an adjacent vacant block, in addition to vacant property north of KeySpan Park, plans to build a mixed-use development on the waterfront site. Plans include ground-floor “entertainment retail ,” housing and “food-related uses” in the restaurant.

“If the city is thinking of trading valuable parkland that’s on the waterfront, the most important questions are, what is the community getting out of that and how is the public being included in these decisions,” says Geoffrey Croft, president of NYC Park Advocates.

“I’m very wary of parkland being taken away for non-park purposes,” says Croft. “There’s very little park space and playgrounds in the community, so any opportunity to utilize that land and build a playground should be top priority.”

Broken Promises
The parkland east of Taconic’s property is a parking lot for KeySpan, and represents a history of broken promises to the community.

Until a decade ago, it was to be part of a year-round amusement fantasyland, spanning from West 15th to West 21st streets, that would have revived rides from the famed Steeplechase Park destroyed by Fred Trump in the late 1960s. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani nixed that idea during his second term, instead promising a community “SportsPlex” on the property, a contingency for the approval of his less-popular minor league stadium.

SportsPlex died shortly after the first Cyclones game, but some say the money’s still allocated for it somewhere in the cosmos of city budget. Today, a small soccer field and the recently re-lit Parachute Jump are nestled alongside the sloping entryway to KeySpan and its expansive parking lot, a small fulfillment of both those promises.

The Parks Department also controls a waterfront vacant lot next to Child’s — overgrown, at least shoulder-high, with weeds — and a parking lot behind the building. Combined, at 144,905 square feet, the two lots are slightly larger than the property now occupied by Astroland Park, which will be evicted by developer Thor Equities after this season.

Carol Hill Albert, whose family has operated Astroland for 45 years, says she’d be very interested in moving her rides west of KeySpan, to land owned by the Parks Department. For more than three decades, the family has held the operating agreement to run the city-owned Cyclone, which occupies parkland next to the New York Aquarium.

Albert has, in the past, offered to help the city pay to move Astroland’s rides anywhere in Coney Island, and recently agreed to take them off the auction block in response to pleas from elected officials.

But despite the ostensibly fervent effort on the part of the city to keep Astroland in Coney Island, Albert says she often feels put on the back burner, in favor of the big developers like Taconic and Thor Equities, and left to fend for herself.

“The reality is that there’s not a lot of land that the city owns within the amusement district [besides the street beds],” says Lynn Kelly, president of the Coney Island Development Corporation (CIDC).

Tale of Two Coneys
The “incredible branding opportunity” found in Coney Island, with its storied past and distinct graphic identity, has been held hostage over the decades by disparate ownership, vacant parcels and patchwork ownership, says Kelly. “Without enhancing the amusement district, we’ve lost that brand.” “Coney East” is the term Kelly uses for the area on that side of KeySpan Park, where she says the “enhanced amusements” should go. Thor Equities purchased most of that property, with controversial plans for a $2 billion mixed-use amusement development that would also include residential housing, although these plans are in the process of being modified after the city rejected the housing portion.

Thor Equities has already cleared away the miniature golf course, go-cart tracks, flea market and batting range; Astroland Park and the boardwalk businesses are looking at their last season.

Taconic owns property in “Coney West,” and the vacant lots north of Surf Avenue.

All of this property is within the city’s only district zoned exclusively for amusements — while Deno’s Wonder Wheel Park (which has not been sold) and Astroland are certainly the heart of that district, KeySpan Park is squarely in the center.

CIDC spokesman Jorge Montalvo says the agency is working very hard to find a new home for Astroland, but that locating the park in Coney West wouldn’t be feasible.


© Brooklyn Daily Eagle 2007

[lofter1]

Coney Island Project Is Scaled Back,
but Critics Are Skeptical

NY TIMES (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney.html?ref=nyregion)
By CHARLES V. BAGLI
June 18, 2007

The developer who wants to remake Coney Island’s amusement district has a new plan and says that you’re going to love it.

Joseph J. Sitt, who says his company has spent $120 million buying up land underneath and around the rides, said on Friday that he had “rolled over” in response to the criticism of his earlier plans for an entertainment and residential complex.

So the looming 40-story tower planned for the Boardwalk at Stillwell Avenue is gone. So are the hundreds of rental apartments and luxury condominiums in the old plan. The new proposal is less dense, he said, but has more of “the new, the edgy, and the outlandish” rides and attractions that America’s first resort was once known for.

“This is our way of showing the New York community that we’re responsive to what they want,” said Mr. Sitt, the founder of Thor Equities, which buys and develops commercial, residential and retail properties nationwide. “Our design, in all its greatness, is a way of showing the world what Coney Island can be.”

Who could complain?

Well.

Robert Lieber, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation, described Mr. Sitt’s new plan as a “wolf dressed up as a sheep.” Mr. Lieber, along with neighborhood leaders and other city officials, had expressed fears that residents of new apartment buildings would not fit comfortably with the noisy, all-hours amusement district that would be preserved between West Eighth Street and the Aquarium and the minor league baseball stadium at West 16th Street.

The new plan keeps the concept of a new glass-enclosed water park, but instead of apartments calls for three hotels, including more than 400 time-share units, along with restaurants, shops, movie theaters and high-tech arcades.

The latest renderings depict a pulsating entertainment complex with an Elephant Colossus statue and architecture that evokes the old Luna Park and Dreamland amusement parks.

Mr. Lieber and others say that the time-share units look an awful lot like apartments and that the complex looks more like a mall than Coney Island.
“He came in last week and presented a plan that had essentially the same density, but dressed it up with hotels and time shares,” Mr. Lieber said. “The building heights still exceed the 271-foot Parachute Jump,” a Coney Island landmark. “And he’s looking for a huge subsidy from the city. North of $100 million.”

The city has been working with local residents and property owners for nearly three years on a master plan for what everyone agrees is a dowdy area. The idea, they say, is to preserve the democratic, open-air quality of Coney Island’s culture and amusement district on the south side of Surf Avenue, while allowing for high-rise residential and retail development set apart from the rides, on the north side of Surf.

The Economic Development Corporation, along with the City Planning Department and the Coney Island Development Corporation, have been devising a rezoning proposal for Coney Island that will go through a public review process later this year.

“The community and the Coney Island Development Corporation have all indicated that residential and amusements don’t go together,” said Chuck Reichenthal, district manager of Community Board 13.

But Mr. Sitt says he believes the changes being proposed are too restrictive and would undercut his ability to redevelop the area.

Everyone agrees that the shrunken hulk of the amusement district is worth preserving, at the edge of a beach that still draws tens of thousands of people on the summer weekends. The question is how to turn it into a year-round attraction.

“Coney Island has changed its faces many times,” Mr. Reichenthal said. “The last Luna Park was in the mid-1940s. Steeplechase came down in the ’60s. But that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t remained a magnet. There’s a lot to do when people come down here. It’s still the place for people who don’t have a huge amount of money in their pocket to come and have a good time.”

Mr. Sitt, who is equal parts real estate entrepreneur and supersalesman, has been engaged in a game of chicken with the city over the future of Coney Island. Earlier this year, his team claimed that his project “isn’t a financially feasible investment” without high-rise housing. Over the winter, he knocked down the batting cages and the go-kart park in a move that harked back to the bad old days of empty lots.

Now he has taken the housing, at least all the units labeled apartments, out of his proposal, and he is betting that his new $1.5 billion plan will win the overwhelming support of local residents, if not all the officials at City Hall. The hotels, which range from 25 to 32 stories, have been moved to mid-block, away from the Boardwalk.

Mr. Sitt has already spent a large sum buying up 10 acres behind the Nathan’s Famous hot dog stand from 30 different families, including the descendants of George C. Tilyou, founder of Steeplechase Park, and the owners of Astroland, an amusement park that embraces the 270-foot Astro Tower. Astroland is scheduled to close in September. The Cyclone roller coaster, which is a city landmark, will remain open.

Hear his pitch:

The hotels, Mr. Sitt said, would offer black residents not only jobs, but careers. Russian immigrants, who enjoy a “quality of life and activity by the water,” would flock to the hotels and nightclubs. Jewish and Italian-American residents would get “quality retail, bookstores and entertainment venues. ”

As for everyone else, “what’s better than having fabulous restaurants, catering halls, shows and concerts?”

“Tell me, what issue any one of these constituencies would have with our plan,” he said. “We’re asking for motherhood, motherhood. Apple pie, Chevrolet and Coney Island.”

Pause for breath.

“Maybe I sound like a salesman,” Mr. Sitt said, “but I’m passionate about this.”

Jeff Persily, who has worked in the amusement district since 1960 and owns a penny arcade and other property on Bowery Street, agrees with the notion that the amusement area must be turned into a year-round attraction to survive. The city needs to change the zoning to allow for larger buildings, hotels, apartments, parking and retail, he said.

“They have a vision of open-air amusements,” Mr. Persily said. “We can’t afford to spend millions on new rides and only be open three months of the year.”

Would he sell out to Mr. Sitt? “At the end of the day, combining all the properties and building amusements, hotels and residential would be a wonderful thing for New York,” he said. “We’re talking about creating not hundreds of jobs but many thousands of jobs. I love Coney Island. I’d love to see it become what it once was when I was a kid.”

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company

[lofter1]

NEWS ALERT! Major Announcent From Thor Equities

http://bp1.blogger.com/_9Gsu_hMGnVk/RnW_Wc-96WI/AAAAAAAAA7c/E9PZO35o_Pg/s400/thor%252Bwebsite.jpg (http://www.thefutureofconeyisland.com/)

http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/ (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/)

Kinetic Carnival has received an exciting e-mail announcement from The Marino Organization (http://www.themarino.org/index.html) with great news from Thor Equities that may make Joseph Sitt and Thor Equities (http://thorequities.com/) as the hero of Coney Island's rebirth.

The announcement from Thor Equities spokesman e-mail read:

After listening to the comments, questions and concerns of members of the Coney Island community, as well as people all over the country and throughout the world, Thor Equities has completely eliminated the residential component of its proposed plan. Thor will instead focus on amusement and entertainment uses worthy of Coney Island's spectacular legacy. Thor now has a plan that is compatible with the City's strategic plan and looks forward to working with the community and the City to return Coney Island to its former glory.


-Tom Corsillo Spokesman, Thor Equities
This is super exciting news for Coney Island. Now we are all anxious to see what new preliminary plans and designs Thor Equities will release.

It's been said by many that there are ways to make profit on amusements. And that residential components in Coney Island is not a solution to Coney's seasonality issues. Coney was never about building amusement retail for the residents down the street. Coney (like a CIUSA poster pointed out) has always been about going to Coney Island. There have been many wonderful ideas talked about on the Coney Island USA bulletin board (http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news).

Therefore, it's time to set up a new kind of forum where the community would specifically be able to express their creative ideas in order to further connect to Thor Equites, the city, and the design team(s) and help generate ideas. Even though Thor Equities will continue to hire the experts in the amusement industry - there has also been a good degree of opposition to previous drawings and plans. A positive critical mass could establish a creative collective that would greatly add to the survival of the Coney Island spirit and character.

We thank Joe Sitt and Thor Equities to face the courage and dare to dream to make a reality, the tough business that is amusements.

Follow discussion on: CIUSA board (http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news;action=display;num=1182116288)

[antinimby]

Well, that's good news.

Condos just don't belong there. Maybe a few blocks away, but just not right where the main amusement area is.

[macreator]

I'm skeptical that having no condos whatsoever is such a good thing. I think you need a mix, it's that simple.

[ablarc]

Condos just don't belong there. Maybe a few blocks away, but just not right where the main amusement area is.
Why?

[antinimby]

They just don't mix and if they do, the amusements end up losing because tenants will eventually complain (especially with the onset of 311) about noise, crowds, litter, lights, etc., etc., etc.

By the way, I thought we (not necessarily you and me, ablarc) went through this discussion somewhere here before.

[NewYorkDoc]

I took a friend visiting to the city to Coney Island yesterday. We loved it, although it was really windy. I have a few pics if anyone would like to see.

[antinimby]

Sure, why not. No one here ever dislikes pics. ;)

[Empire State]

/\Putting residential in this area is a sure fire way to give yourself a new generation of Nimbys. Residents won't put up with the nosie and cahos of a typical North American resort area. Not to mention that the 40 mintue ride on the D/Q/F/N is not going to appeal to the typical condo buyer. For that kind of distance, I'd want one of those charming Bensonhurst townhomes.

I like his revisions and think they should be given a shot.

[NewYorkDoc]

We started out with Nathans! I love it myself so I had to let her try this New York delight.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/4236/pictures006jy0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A shot from the Boardwalk:



http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5831/pictures007ma3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The beach:

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6464/pictures011xc6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4017/pictures009pe5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[BrooklynRider]

The following quote from Sitt is truly stunning in it's racist stereotyping. To break it down by race and enthicity is truly astounding and so patently offensive to those groups as to be incredulous. Note that no where in this statement are amusements noted. This scumbag has no commitment to the integrity of the C-7 zone.

The hotels, Mr. Sitt said, would offer black residents not only jobs, but careers. The Russian immigrants, who enjoy a “quality of life and activity by the water,” would flock to the hotels and nightclubs. Jewish and Italian-American residents would get the “quality retail, bookstores and entertainment venues” that they want. As for everyone else, “what’s better than having fabulous restaurants, catering halls, shows and concerts?”

What an absolute creep! Beyond the fact that his design looks like Victoria Garden in Central Park, only a person with no knowledge of the existing amusement zone would say that this is an exciting improvement.

Finally, time-shares are residences. The best measure of a hotel is whether the city's occupancy and other lodging taxes can be applied. Time shares would not generate those taxes for the city. The footprint of this plan is the same as the previous with non-amusement buildings filling most of the square footage.

Sitt listened to no one. His descriptive narrative has slightly changed, but it is the same plan.

[Punzie]

I read the Joseph Sitts quote ^^^ in the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney.html

Was it printed anywhere else?

Sitts' quote is so bigoted that it reminds me of Interior Secretary James Watt's description of his cabinet in 1983: "I have a black, a woman, two Jews and a cripple. And we have talent."

Sitts' stereotyping needs to be widely disseminated throughout the community.
Any idea how could this be done?

[Punzie]

The links for to the NY Times disappear so quickly that I posted the full article (cited above^^):


The New York Times
June 18, 2007

Coney Island Plan Is Scaled Back, but Critics Are Skeptical
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney-600.jpg
An artist’s rendering of an aerial view of Surf Avenue at Coney Island
under a new plan for a renovated amusement complex there.


By CHARLES V. BAGLI (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/charles_v_bagli/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

The developer who wants to remake Coney Island’s amusement district has a new plan and says that you’re going to love it.

Joseph J. Sitt, who says his company has spent $120 million buying up land underneath and around the rides, said on Friday that he had “rolled over” in response to the criticism of his earlier plans for an entertainment and residential complex.

So the looming 40-story tower planned for the Boardwalk at Stillwell Avenue is gone. So are the hundreds of rental apartments and luxury condominiums in the old plan. The new proposal is less dense, he said, but has more of “the new, the edgy, and the outlandish” rides and attractions that America’s first resort was once known for.

“This is our way of showing the New York community that we’re responsive to what they want,” said Mr. Sitt, the founder and chief executive of Thor Equities, which buys and develops commercial, residential and retail properties nationwide. “Our design, in all its greatness, is a way of showing the world what Coney Island can be.”

Who could complain?

Well.

Robert Lieber, president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation, described Mr. Sitt’s new plan as a “wolf dressed up as a sheep.” Mr. Lieber, along with neighborhood leaders and other city officials, had expressed fears that residents of new apartment buildings would not fit comfortably with the noisy, all-hours amusement district that would be preserved between West Eighth Street and the Aquarium and the minor league baseball stadium at West 16th Street.

The new plan keeps the concept of a new glass-enclosed water park, but instead of apartments calls for three hotels, including more than 400 time-share units, along with restaurants, shops, movie theaters and high-tech arcades. The latest renderings depict a pulsating entertainment complex with an Elephant Colossus statue and architecture that evokes the old Luna Park and Dreamland amusement parks.

Mr. Lieber and others say that the time-share units look an awful lot like apartments and that the complex looks more like a mall than Coney Island.
“He came in last week and presented a plan that had essentially the same density, but dressed it up with hotels and time shares,” Mr. Lieber said on Friday. “The building heights still exceed the 271-foot Parachute Jump,” a Coney Island landmark. “And he’s looking for a huge subsidy from the city. North of $100 million.”

The city has been working with local residents and property owners for nearly three years on a master plan for what everyone agrees is a dowdy area. The idea, they say, is to preserve the democratic, open-air quality of Coney Island’s culture and amusement district on the south side of Surf Avenue, while allowing for high-rise residential and retail development set apart from the rides, on the north side of Surf.

The Economic Development Corporation, along with the City Planning Department and the Coney Island Development Corporation, have been devising a rezoning proposal for Coney Island that will go through a public review process later this year.

“The community and the Coney Island Development Corporation have all indicated that residential and amusements don’t go together,” said Chuck Reichenthal, district manager of Community Board 13.

But Mr. Sitt says he believes the changes being proposed are too restrictive and would undercut his ability to redevelop the area.
Everyone agrees that the shrunken hulk of the amusement district is worth preserving, at the edge of a beach that still draws tens of thousands of people on the summer weekends. The question is how to turn it into a year-round attraction.

“Coney Island has changed its faces many times,” Mr. Reichenthal said. “The last Luna Park was in the mid-1940s. Steeplechase came down in the ’60s. But that doesn’t mean that it hasn’t remained a magnet. There’s a lot to do when people come down here. It’s still the place for people who don’t have a huge amount of money in their pocket to come and have a good time.”

Mr. Sitt, who is equal parts real estate entrepreneur and supersalesman, has been engaged in a game of chicken with the city over the future of Coney Island. Earlier this year, his team claimed that his project “isn’t a financially feasible investment” without high-rise housing. Over the winter, he knocked down the batting cages and the go-kart park in a move that harked back to the bad old days of empty lots.

Now he has taken the housing, at least all the units labeled apartments, out of his proposal, and he is betting that his new $1.5 billion plan will win the overwhelming support of local residents, if not all the officials at City Hall. The hotels, which range from 25 to 32 stories, have been moved to midblock, away from the Boardwalk.

Mr. Sitt has already spent a large sum buying up 10 acres behind the Nathan’s Famous hot dog stand from 30 different families, including the descendants of George C. Tilyou, founder of Steeplechase Park, and the owners of Astroland, an amusement park that embraces the 270-foot Astro Tower. Astroland is scheduled to close in September. The Cyclone roller coaster, which is a city landmark, will remain open.

Hear his pitch:

The hotels, Mr. Sitt said, would offer black residents not only jobs, but careers. The Russian immigrants, who enjoy a “quality of life and activity by the water,” would flock to the hotels and nightclubs. Jewish and Italian-American residents would get the “quality retail, bookstores and entertainment venues” that they want. As for everyone else, “what’s better than having fabulous restaurants, catering halls, shows and concerts?”

“Tell me, what issue any one of these constituencies would have with our plan,” he said. “We’re asking for motherhood, motherhood. Apple pie, Chevrolet and Coney Island.”

Pause for breath.

“Maybe I sound like a salesman,” Mr. Sitt said, “but I’m passionate about this.”

Jeff Persily, who has worked in the amusement district since 1960 and owns a penny arcade and other property on Bowery Street, agrees with the notion that the amusement area must be turned into a year-round attraction to survive. The city needs to change the zoning to allow for larger buildings, hotels, apartments, parking and retail, he said.

“They have a vision of open-air amusements,” Mr. Persily said. “We can’t afford to spend millions on new rides and only be open three months of the year.”

Would he sell out to Mr. Sitt? “At the end of the day, combining all the properties and building amusements, hotels and residential would be a wonderful thing for New York,” he said. “We’re talking about creating not hundreds of jobs but many thousands of jobs. I love Coney Island. I’d love to see it become what it once was when I was a kid.”

But not everyone trusts Mr. Sitt to deliver. They are concerned that he would convert his time-share units to apartments or flip the property to another developer who would change the plans.

Charles Denson, who grew up in Coney Island and now heads the Coney Island History Project, is fond of saying that Mr. Sitt could be a hero by saving the amusement district. But he said residential towers would overwhelm the amusements and “a big shopping mall is not Coney Island.”

The history project is running a show in the museum underneath the Cyclone roller coaster titled “Land Grab.” It depicts the development of Coney Island since the 1800s through aerial photographs.

“It’s the last ungentrified place in New York,” Mr. Denson said. “It’s still a poor man’s paradise. There’s something magical about it, the name, the reputation and the history.”

Copyright 2007 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/18/nyregion/18coney.html


** Sitts's Shits in sick-doody brown.

[Eugenious]

I don't see a problem with this plan, the city needs to stop trying to roll back the clock and support this guy so that Coney Island is something other than a lowest common denominator playground.

eh, whatever...they don't have a problem giving Goldman Sachs and other investment banks billions in tax breaks to occupy prime space downtown and they balk at giving much less to a developer of a blighted area that has been a dump for decades and that is building a hugely risky development.

[antinimby]

Can those towers in the rendering look any more blocky and boxy?

They look like the red brick housing projects a few blocks away, except they're shiny.

[MidtownGuy]

Yeah, what boxy, boring crap they are. If that's as good as it gets, I'll stick with the current sleazy but fun atmosphere.

[fioco]

To enjoy the Coney Island of yesteryear, I guess we'll all have to head to Australia and Luna Park (in both Melbourne and Sydney). They trace their roots to Coney Island in Brooklyn (history here (http://www.lunaparksydney.com/visitor_info/history_story.html)).

Luna Park, Melbourne:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/378779515_40344a32d0.jpg

There's gotta be a way to develop Coney Island, make boatloads of money, and do it through something more imaginative, playful, and stimulating than timeshares and condos. Isn't there?

[ZippyTheChimp]

We need a George C Tilyou (http://history.amusement-parks.com/steeplechase.htm)

[MidtownGuy]

For sure. The Coney Island documentary mentioned at that link is absolutely fantastic. So much footage of Coney Island history! I couldn't believe the magical images of Luna Park or the fun of Steeplechase.
They have it at the NYPL if anyone wants to check it out.

[ablarc]

“It’s the last ungentrified place in New York,” Mr. Denson said. “It’s still a poor man’s paradise."

I don't see a problem with this plan, the city needs to stop trying to roll back the clock and support this guy so that Coney Island is something other than a lowest common denominator playground.
One man's paradise is another man's dump.

I'll stick with the current sleazy but fun atmosphere.

[Eugenious]

One man's paradise is another man's dump.

It's a dump, if you have been there you know it's a dump there's no other way to describe it. Un-gentrified my @$$, it's undeveloped lot that has been left to rot for decades. Now that someone is interested in it all of a sudden the nostalgia hits...wake up and smell the garbage, this area was forgotten and nobody cared..now that someone wants to make something of it everyone wants to get in on the action...

[ablarc]

It's a dump, if you have been there you know it's a dump there's no other way to describe it. Un-gentrified my @$$, it's undeveloped lot that has been left to rot for decades. Now that someone is interested in it all of a sudden the nostalgia hits...wake up and smell the garbage, this area was forgotten and nobody cared..now that someone wants to make something of it everyone wants to get in on the action...
Funny, that was my reaction when I visited a few years ago. Ugly, neglected, tedious and boring. Unless it's changed, I wouldn't recommend it to a visitor or take friends there. In fact I cringed a bit when Brianac from across the pond announced it as a prime destination for his day in Brooklyn.

But all this rhapsodizing made me wonder if it had changed its spots. Maybe the Mermaid parade...

At the end of the day, I'm inclined to your view, Eugenious.

[Eugenious]

Funny, that was my reaction when I visited a few years ago. Ugly, neglected, tedious and boring. Unless it's changed, I wouldn't recommend it to a visitor or take friends there. In fact I cringed a bit when Brianac from across the pond announced it as a prime destination for his day in Brooklyn.

But all this rhapsodizing made me wonder if it had changed its spots. Maybe the Mermaid parade...

At the end of the day, I'm inclined to your view, Eugenious.

I think there are many people who just like to keep everything the way it is, they think any change is usually for the worst. But the thing about life is that everything changes always - you cant keep things from changing you can just hope it's for the better. I know people are concerned about too much development and so on, but you are talking about a totally forgotten area of NY which only the poor folks and lower middle class and immigrants used to frequent and here comes someone who wants to open it up for all new yorkers and make it nice again so that people want to come there and the city is fighting him all the way through. Has Sitt done anything that would warrant this? I mean if you look at his projects is there anything warranting this kind of reaction? No I don't think there is, and I think in the end people will see it.

[MidtownGuy]

Now wait a minute, Eugenious, just slow your roll. You seem to be presenting this as a false dichotomy:

(1) languid, dirty, Coney Isand as "a lowest common denominator playground"

OR

(2) Whatever Sitt wants to do with it, because "change" is inevitable.:rolleyes:

Do I really need to explain why this is a misrepresentation of the opinion of those of us with concerns about which way development proceeds? I'm not a luddite, man, so don't try to paint my opinion as some sort of reactionary desire for a bygone era.

It wasn't helpful when ablarc quoted me as saying "'l'll stick with the current sleazy but fun atmosphere" omitting the crucial qualifying phrase "If this is as good as it gets". (referring to the latest rendering of stupid boxes barely better looking than the projects behind them.)

I think there are many people who just like to keep everything the way it is, they think any change is usually for the worst. But the thing about life is...

Oh come on, nobody here is romanticising the overflowing garbage pails or advocating the preservation of Coney Island in amber. You're right about change being inevitable. What you left out is that we have brains for a reason, we can intelligently guide progress and change instead of leaving it up to the willy-nilly whims of a questionable developer who is (understandably) thinking of his own benefit before the benefit of most New Yorkers.

you are talking about a totally forgotten area of NY which only the poor folks and lower middle class and immigrants used to frequent and here comes someone who wants to open it up for all new yorkers

This statement is inaccurate rubbish, making it sound like Coney Island was ever and always an undesireable lowclass sleaze pit, and here comes the beatific vision of Joe Sitt, who is going to liberate it for the entertainment- and-condo-starved masses. PUHleez. Watch the documentary on Coney Island put togeher by PBS and you might get a more accurate idea of Coney Island's past, and a bit of inspiration for what it could be.

New York needs Coney Island. It needs a place where for a couple of bucks you can get on the subway and enjoy some good old, low-brow, and colorful fun at the seaside. Amusements and cheap delicious food, excellent people watching and a down-to-earth amosphere. Take those condos and shove 'em.

I'm as enthusiastic for new development at Coney Island as anyone could possibly be. The latest plan is a bit better than the other presentation, but it still isn't right. It's unfortunate that when one asks for something to be done right, people make it seem like one wants nothing at all done. Let's not stoop to that level of misrepresentation, OK?

[BrooklynRider]

MidtownGuy neatly sums up my opinion as well, although I do not think the new plan is any better than Thor's old plan. Thor's vision is the destruction of the amusement zone. No two ways about it.

[Eugenious]

It's all fine and good to talk out of your @$$ and such, but in my 15 years living in Brooklyn I have NEVER heard ANYONE talk of Coney Island as anything but a run down dump that you cant even take a date to because she will NEVER go out with you again. Just because Coney Island was something 100 years ago doesn't mean it is that now.

I mean do you restore a 100 year old car because it used to be the best in its time and used to run all good and was a beautiful car or do you own up to the fact that you need a good modern car and buy a new one because you know it will be better?

Hell I'm saying that change is inevitable and that by not doing anything you're changing it for the worst. I mean do you see developers lining up to do this project? Why is Sitt the only one? Have you heard of any alternatives? I haven't because nobody wants to touch this area with a ten foot pole.

My girlfriend lived right next to Coney Island in a house with her family and I cant tell you how many time I heard gun shots and saw prostitutes. It's just such a bad area.

[MidtownGuy]

I mean do you restore a 100 year old car because it used to be the best in its time and used to run all good and was a beautiful car or do you own up to the fact that you need a good modern car and buy a new one because you know it will be better?

First of all, the analogy is weak. But let me entertain it for a second:
I would get a well-designed new car that isn't boxy, is fun to drive, and lives up to the great cars I've owned in the past. You see, I've had legendary cars that everyone had fun in. I'm not about to settle for anything less. I would definitely get a car that amuses me, not something boring or similar to the other guys in town. Naturally, after I declare my desire to get this new car, some unscrupulous fast-talking salesman might try to get me to sign on the first piece of crap he can unload from his lot and make some money from. BUT I, you see, have good taste, and know when something is a really good deal, and when something sucks. Don't want to get stuck with a lemon! Because I am thoughtful and patient, I pass this shyster up and find the real car of my dreams soon afterwards.

[pianoman11686]

I mean do you see developers lining up to do this project? Why is Sitt the only one? Have you heard of any alternatives? I haven't because nobody wants to touch this area with a ten foot pole.

I haven't heard anyone ask this before, and I couldn't be sure of the answer. I recall Sitt stating a while back that the project had personal motivations, of the sort relating back to his history in Brooklyn. I doubt those play a larger role than the ca$h in his decision making, but still: why, in an era of history-making development, is Coney Island languishing?

[ZippyTheChimp]

If Joe Sitt is to be believed at all, the personal motivation relating back to the history of Brooklyn may be the mid-1960s.

That's when Fred Trump did the same thing at Steeplechase Park - he bought the property, asked for a zoning change to build residential buildings, and razed the site to force the issue.

The problems with Coney Island in the 60s and 70s were not caused by the nature of the entertainment zone, but what was happening in the city. Crime was increasing, the population was decreasing, and the subways (the lifeblood of CI) were unsafe. People had to tolerate taking the subway to work, but not many were going to choose to take the subway to CI, especially at night.

But like the city in general, Coney Island might have held on and survived if Steeplechase had remained. That was the nail in the coffin.

It was as large as the WTC site, and anchored the entire zone. At the time it was closed, it looked nothing like the CI you see today, and its sale was mostly the result of Tilyou family bickering. Once the site was razed, the effect on the rest of the zone was immediate, and it never recovered.

Curiously, all this transpired at the same time Penn Station was being dismantled. Steeplechase had an equal historical legacy, and was being considered for landmark status when Trump destroyed it.

why, in an era of history-making development, is Coney Island languishing?Precisely because we're in an era of history-making development.

The easiest way to make money anywhere in a hot market is to develop luxury housing. While the CI site is viable as housing or entertainment, there are other places for developers to go and make the same money.

As for the 100 year old car analogy: Those of us who want to save Coney Island realize more than most that the present condition is not the Coney Island we want. They can raze all the buildings. It's the idea of Coney Island we want to save. We don't want to repair a 100 year old car; we want a new car.

But Eugenious wants us to buy a truck.

[ablarc]

First of all, the analogy is weak.
But then you put it to great use ...


I would get a well-designed new car that isn't boxy, is fun to drive, and lives up to the great cars I've owned in the past. You see, I've had legendary cars that everyone had fun in. I'm not about to settle for anything less. I would definitely get a car that amuses me, not something boring or similar to the other guys in town. Naturally, after I declare my desire to get this new car, some unscrupulous fast-talking salesman might try to get me to sign on the first piece of crap he can unload from his lot and make some money from. BUT I, you see, have good taste, and know when something is a really good deal, and when something sucks. Don't want to get stuck with a lemon! Because I am thoughtful and patient, I pass this shyster up and find the real car of my dreams soon afterwards.
... and Zippy hones it to perfection:

As for the 100 year old car analogy: Those of us who want to save Coney Island realize more than most that the present condition is not the Coney Island we want. They can raze all the buildings. It's the idea of Coney Island we want to save. We don't want to repair a 100 year old car; we want a new car.

But Eugenious wants us to buy a truck.
LOL!

[Fabrizio]

mmmm.... a fun-for-all low-priced day resort that mixes all classes? You can't go home again.

Is it really possible today? Coney Island, like the old Atlantic City, grew out of social/economic conditions that just don't exist anymore.

Do you guys know Ocean City NewJersey? Obviously different than the old ConeyIsland, but I think it's as close to that feel as it gets today.

It's pretty much like it was when I was a kid, but luck, preservation and yes, it's strict alchohol laws, have helped:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_City,_New_Jersey

http://www.baltimoresun.com/travel/beaches/bal-beach-ocnj,0,6910107.story?coll=bal-bayandbeach-storyutil

I love this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/infinitejeff/38563030/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/infinitejeff/6143592/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/justindula/266277892/in/set-72057594137532938/

(note BTW, that it's population has GROWN over the decades. Compare that to AC, Asbury Park and other old shore resorts)

But I doubt anyone can recreate that sort of ambience anew.

I think the only company that could get Coney Island on it's feet again...give it the best shot... the only company with the money, know-how, and taste is Disney.

Ok clobber me.

5...4...3...2...1... go!


---

[Eugenious]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidtownGuy http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=172294#post172294)
First of all, the analogy is weak.

I should have explained the circumstances better what I meant is that it would cost way more to restore an old car and in the end it would not be anywhere near as good as a new modern car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MidtownGuy http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=172294#post172294)
I would get a well-designed new car that isn't boxy, is fun to drive, and lives up to the great cars I've owned in the past. You see, I've had legendary cars that everyone had fun in. I'm not about to settle for anything less. I would definitely get a car that amuses me, not something boring or similar to the other guys in town. Naturally, after I declare my desire to get this new car, some unscrupulous fast-talking salesman might try to get me to sign on the first piece of crap he can unload from his lot and make some money from. BUT I, you see, have good taste, and know when something is a really good deal, and when something sucks. Don't want to get stuck with a lemon! Because I am thoughtful and patient, I pass this shyster up and find the real car of my dreams soon afterwards.

What if your credit is shot, you live in a slum that has been condemned and you have defaulted on the last 5 loans you got? What if this sleazy salesman is the only guy in town willing to sell you a car? I mean really, your old car is rotting but you need a new car but the guy is charging a bit more would you go for it? I would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=172341#post172341)
As for the 100 year old car analogy: Those of us who want to save Coney Island realize more than most that the present condition is not the Coney Island we want. They can raze all the buildings. It's the idea of Coney Island we want to save. We don't want to repair a 100 year old car; we want a new car.

But Eugenious wants us to buy a truck.

I don't mind having a truck when you don't have any other choice. Just imagine you need something and your mother is telling you no you cant have a truck but you cant get a car since nobody is selling cars to you.

But anyway enough with the analogies, you guys have a nice day.

[fioco]

Zippy gave some important historical background to the recent debates.
Here's some images for the record also:

Entrance to the Park (remind you of anything?)
http://history.amusement-parks.com/Steeplechase/main/gate.jpg


Surf Avenue and Steeplechase Park:
http://history.amusement-parks.com/Steeplechase/main/steeplechasecrosssurf.jpg



For more historical background and images of Steeplechase Park, go here (http://history.amusement-parks.com/steeplechase.htm).

Coney Island was also a topic among the PBS series The American Experience. Link here. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/coney/)

[ZippyTheChimp]

I read somewhere that when Tilyou was a teenager in Coney Island, he made money by selling salt water and sand to tourists.

After the first Steeplechase fire, he charged admission to see the charred ruins.

Fioco, do you remember Steeplechase?

[ablarc]

If Coney Island turned out to be an OK truck, would there be strip clubs?

[Ninjahedge]

First of all, the analogy is weak. But let me entertain it for a second:
I would get a well-designed new car that isn't boxy, is fun to drive, and lives up to the great cars I've owned in the past. You see, I've had legendary cars that everyone had fun in. I'm not about to settle for anything less. I would definitely get a car that amuses me, not something boring or similar to the other guys in town. Naturally, after I declare my desire to get this new car, some unscrupulous fast-talking salesman might try to get me to sign on the first piece of crap he can unload from his lot and make some money from. BUT I, you see, have good taste, and know when something is a really good deal, and when something sucks. Don't want to get stuck with a lemon! Because I am thoughtful and patient, I pass this shyster up and find the real car of my dreams soon afterwards.

I agree on several points.

1. The analogy is weak. We are not talking about a 100 year old P.O.C. (I would use "S", but that would be wrong ;) ). If I had the choice between a 100 year old model T or a brand new SmartCar, what do you think I would chose?

The T would not be practical for communting, but since when was coney a "practical" place?

2. Not ONE person here has said NO development. Tehy just do not want cheap condos and a demolishing of the old park.

Restoration of a classic is sometimes worth more than simply putting a plaque where it was. And given the area, I do not see anything worthwile being built there unless teher was some kind of "encouragement".

We are not in teh early expansionist days where just about anything was allowed to be built wherever anyone whanted to. The city is also not in dire financial need that they need to sell parts of it off to the highest budder.

The time to demand extra is when you daamn well know you are going to get it. Were you one of the ones that was asking for free economic development? If the city has the power to ask for more, and the market will still bear it, why should we let the developers walk away with all the $$?

[Ninjahedge]

>sigh<

/me sees a "ritzier" Jersey boardwalk.

hat looks sweet, and even if it was only Coney, I guarantee you if you did it like it was "vintage" you could probably attract the gentrified crowd looking for novelty.

We have enough carnivals/fairs in this town. Having a slice of the past that is just plain FUN to go to might actually be able to make some money!


Right now the place is just a dump. It is that old wreck you see while driving upstate. Out on blocks in someones front yard with a "for sale" sign on it.

Zippy gave some important historical background to the recent debates.
Here's some images for the record also:

Entrance to the Park (remind you of anything?)
http://history.amusement-parks.com/Steeplechase/main/gate.jpg


Surf Avenue and Steeplechase Park:
http://history.amusement-parks.com/Steeplechase/main/steeplechasecrosssurf.jpg



For more historical background and images of Steeplechase Park, go here (http://history.amusement-parks.com/steeplechase.htm).

Coney Island was also a topic among the PBS series The American Experience. Link here. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/coney/)

[ablarc]

The analogy is weak...
Maybe, but it sure gets a lot of mileage put on it. ;)

[BPC]

Those old photos make me sad. Mr. Moderator, in the title of this thread, can we put the words "Renaissance" in quotes, just like we did for the thread on Greenwich Street "Restoration"? Otherwise, I feel we are giving this sleazy developer far more credit that he is due.

[lofter1]

Agreed ^^^ about "Renaissance" ...

And since the creator of this thread is a "banned member" (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/member.php?u=2326) a moderator can make the call ...

[BrooklynRider]

I'm certain we can get one of the moderators to change the name. There's an avalanche of arbitrary thread changes and thread moving going on. I'm certain we can one moderator to do it. Who should we get?

[Ninjahedge]

Maybe, but it sure gets a lot of mileage put on it. ;)

"Ba-dum-bum - Kissssh!"

[NIMBYkiller]

Isn't having a hotel going to be just as bad as apartments for the consumer? You're still dealing with all this noise from the amusement park. Time shares, please. Otherwise, I think Sitt is making a somewhat decent effort. It's just he's relying on residential type properties too much, or atleast, putting them too close to the amusement park. I'd rather see Randalls Island be the water park and Coney Island be the amusement park, but that's just my little fantasy.

[fioco]

I need to visit the board more often, it's hard to keep up. Here goes.

"Right now the place is just a dump. It is that old wreck you see while driving upstate. Out on blocks in someones front yard with a "for sale" sign on it."
Hey! I resent that! I was born and raised in West Virginia. You're trashing our state icon. :D

And Zippy, I don't remember Steeplechase because I was still a child in West Virginia exploring junked cars, moonshine stills and outdoor privies. Had no shoes but a dirt floor which we shared with the livestock in the winter (Folks used to believe these tales . . . Isn't that sad.) :o

I enjoy adding links to further background and history because I'm able to make a contribution, being neither architect, engineer, nor professional critic (they might not get paid, but by the way they criticize they must spend all their time doing it to become so expert. ;)

Even if someone were to pine for the good ole days of 1910, I don't think any of us could entertain that practically. But Coney Island offers more than a moldy history and a forlorn appearance. Its past flavors its present (bad but also good) and can help it achieve something of distinction for the future.

That is why I pleaded for creativity, imagination, and stimulation as key components to whatever might rise along the seashore. I would prefer a noble experience that permitted the mixing of the classes. Once New York built something sublime and elegant like Central Park, then too, it built today's Times Square. But as far apart as they are in experience, both are quintessentially New York and flooded with people who delight in them.

That's a tall order for Coney Island and perhaps too much to hope for. But wasn't that part of the charming idiocy behind the new "hat/air dress/Jonah's whale" for the Aquarium? -- Something with Coney outrageousness to call attention to a dowdy attraction?

I actually support new housing at Coney, but not in the amusement area, or at least not along the Boardwalk. For so many Manhattan projects, people here have bemoaned not going for the "big idea" -- the grand design that epitomized the Golden Age of New York followed by the broad and reaching scope of Moses (Mr.) himself.

Now a days, a project doesn't receive constructive criticism and conditional support, but outright hatred. The developer is demonized and only the pure in heart may attain paradise (Ahem. I have to stamp your card first).

Yes. Please ignore me. But somewhere in the piles of wasted threads, my meek little voice asked for creativity, imagination and stimulation -- Something of the heart of Coney that should beat into its future.

[BrooklynRider]

Good post. We like to get the hillbilly perspective every once in a while. (Only kidding...)

Actually, I agree with all your points.

[ablarc]

^ He always makes sense. He's like Hof.

[Punzie]

New Yorkers Wish Coney Island's Cyclone Happy 80th Birthday!

http://www.travelhero.com/commonImages/destinations/coney-a.gif


June 26, 2007

New Yorkers went for a thrill ride Tuesday on Coney Island's Cyclone to celebrate the coaster's 80th birthday.

The coaster first opened on this day back in 1927 and has given millions of New Yorkers the ride of their lives ever since.

A brass band played, stilt walkers showed off their talents, Miss Cyclone made an appearance, and some octogenarians took a ride, all for the birthday bash.

"It still hasn't lost that feeling that it has. It's a feeling you get on none of the new coasters,” said Stan Fox of The Coney Island History Project. “You get in there and you become part of the ride, as it drops down and makes the turns. You become one with the ride, and you have the greatest view when you're on top of Coney Island beach and boardwalk.”

“The interesting thing about the cyclone is back when I first rode it – and I was 13-years-old at the time okay and it was like 1939, the World's Fair was open – this was the smoothest roller coaster any place you went,” said 81-year-old Cyclone rider Ed Murman. “There were roller coasters all over Coney Island; none of them could compare to this one for smoothness."

Longtime area resident Sandy Malachowsay says she never gets sick of the ride. She says the Cyclone is a beautiful part of growing up in the area.

“I was a little girl and I lived in Brighton and I lived here all my life, and I love Coney Island,” said Malachowsay.

The Cyclone was named a New York City Landmark in 1988 and is listed in the National Register of Historic Places.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=71107

[fioco]

Excerpted from The Gowanus Lounge: (http://gowanuslounge.blogspot.com/2007/06/ready-for-freakenspeil-tower-and.html)

Wednesday, June 27, 2007

Will the Freakenspeile Tower and Bizarre Bazaar Come to Coney Island?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1403/638311701_c6f8d89874_o.jpg

The Coney Island presentation made by developer Joe Sitt and by Thinkwell Creative Director Chris Durmick about Thor Equities Coney Island plans contained a number of new details. The presentation leaned heavily on the designs for Stillwell Avenue, the Bowery and a passage that has been dubbed Front Street as well as Coney Island Park. (The latter would replace Astroland.) It avoided mention and depiction of the hotels and time share buildings up to 40 stories in height and with nearly 1,000 rooms and units that would rise west of Stillwell Avenue.

(Kinetic Carnival, who was also in attendance, offers an image slideshow (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2007/06/thor-town-meeting-image-slide-show.html) of the presentation and well as a rundown (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2007/06/joe-sitt-seeks-community-approval-at.html).)

Mr. Durmick, whose firm has been hired to design the project, chafed at comparisons that have been made to a "Las Vegas theme park." He said the firm was designing an "amusement park" and that "it must be authentic Coney Island. Every theme park in the world has a pedigree that's Coney Island." Mr. Sitt himself several times said that "We're not just building a fairytale garden." He described the product as "urban, New York and Coney Island."

In its latest iteration, the plan would divide the amusement area into several "neighborhoods." Stillwell Avenue would serve as its main retail area. It will have an "Emporium" where visitors can buy tickets, burn photo CDs and rent lockers and strollers. It will also have "a vertical dark ride." There will be a giant elephant fountain outside.

The feature sure to provoke discussion, however, is the planned Freakenspiele Tower ("Freakenspiele" is one of the few words that you can Google which will produce zero results.) The tower will have 40-foot LED screens on all four sides and a "launch tower ride" in the interior. It would be at the boardwalk end of Stillwell Avenue.

Halfway down Stillwell toward the boardwalk, the developer plans a performance plaza. A glass-enclosed water park would be six stories above street level. In this vision, Stillwell avenue would be transformed into a "walking promenade" with street performers, bistros, shopping and a multiplex theater. The tall buildings on the west side of Stillwell Avenue would have street fronts of four-six stories, but would rise up to 40 stories.

Mr. Durmick mentioned there would be another roller coaster in this vicinity, an "overhead steeplechase" that would be a high-speed launch roller coaster.

The Bowery (previously unpublished rendering above) was described as Coney Island's "subculture suburb." "This place wants to be designed by the local people," Mr. Durmick said. "This is where the circus sideshow people would live." The would include a high tech "Vertical Fun House" and something called the "Bizarre Bazaar," which was described as a "sub-culture souk." We're not sure what a sub-culture souk is, but it sounds like it might be an attempted recreation of St. Mark's Place in the old days.

The final element described by Mr. Durmick was Coney Island Park, the project that would replace Astroland. It would be an indoor-outdor park with 21 rides on multiple levels. It would include old school rides like the Tilt-A-Whirl as well as a new roller coaster called the Leviathan that is envisioned as looping through buildings and under the boardwalk. It would also include a 120 foot tall Aviator tower ride. W. Tenth Street would become a pedestrian area.

"We want to create a whole menus of neighborhoods and flavors because this is Coney Island," Mr. Durmick said.

The photo below, which is courtesy of Adrian Kinloch (http://flickr.com/photos/akinloch/) of the blog Brit in Brooklyn (http://britinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/), shows Mr. Durmick on the left and developer Joe Sitt at the podium on the right.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1410/639188752_115e0f0028_o.jpg

[fioco]

Just think if Thor Equities would provide housing for the circus performers and freaks amongst their high-rise community. Just imagine: sharing the elevator with the bearded lady; getting your mail and chatting with the sword swallower; running the treadmill alongside a snake charmer; or running out for milk and running into "Shoot the Freak" on his way in with ice cream. Aaahh. Now that would be Coney Island luxury. Would they dare?

[lofter1]

Once I stayed at a hotel with Cirque de Soleil folks -- lots of Eastern Europeans -- moody, but liked to party. And for the most part a darned good looking gang.

[Eugenious]

Honestly, I don't think Sitt will build anything. All these drawings are just a circus illusion, he's got everyone hopped up on this stuff and once he gets the zoning changes he's going to flip the land and make a whole lot of easy $.

1. Amusement parks are not profitable, especially in NYC :)
2. Nobody is going to touch Coney Island until they can build High Rise Hotels, and Condos there like Miami.
3. Sitt is not an idiot, he will never build anything that will lose money (like an amusement park).
4. With global warming threatening coastal areas of east coast, only an idiot would take a risk building anything so close to the water. Especially when you wont be able to insure any of it :)

[MidtownGuy]

^How come amusement parks are so unprofitable? Seems everytime I've been to one, I saw a lot of folks spending money.:confused:

There seems to be a lot of them all around the country too, from north to south. Are you telling me those parks are all running charities, just in it for the laughs and good times?

[ablarc]

^How come amusement parks are so unprofitable? Seems everytime I've been to one, I saw a lot of folks spending money.:confused:

There seems to be a lot of them all around the country too, from north to south. Are you telling me those parks are all running charities, just in it for the laughs and good times?
There's a big amusement park a half-hour's drive from where I live. They make oodles of money.

But they have a mechanism for taking your money that Coney Island doesn't have: an extremely steep admission fee to a gated compound (or a high-priced season's pass). Once inside, all rides are free, but there's a second mechanism that's an outgrowth of the first: all food concessions are owned by the management, and they charge five bucks for a frank and the same for a coke.

To get their money's worth of rides, folks stay all day, enriching the management through food and beverage purchases --like the refreshment stand at the movies.

Coney Island doesn't have this lucrative business model.



... But Disney World does.

[unknown memory]

1. Amusement parks are not profitable, especially in NYC :)

Amusement parks are not profitable, eh? Then what do we call Six Flags, Disney World, Busch Gardens, Knott's Berry Farm, Sea World, etc.? Even a mini Six Flags sitting in the middle of a string of Texas highways is actually profitable.

Of course, when it comes to Coney Island, it's been shadowed by time. When I look at it, it's to me a simple city looking park. A bit run down. It's nothing like the Jersey shore amusement parks (which are profitable too).


2. Nobody is going to touch Coney Island until they can build High Rise Hotels, and Condos there like Miami.
Yeah, I don't quite understand developers these days. They think condos are all that. Hotels are alright because they help bring in tourism business. Disney re-doing Downtown Disney and Pleasure Island was a success (which lacks condos). [/quote]


3. Sitt is not an idiot, he will never build anything that will lose money (like an amusement park).
How does a spanking new looking amusement park compared to the old looking Coney Island lose money? It's the whole point of re-developments these days. >_>


4. With global warming threatening coastal areas of east coast, only an idiot would take a risk building anything so close to the water. Especially when you wont be able to insure any of it :)
Ever been to the Jersey shore? Atlantic City? Virginia Beach? Any coastal community with an amusement park right along its coast? :)

I like Sitt's fantasy idea dream. Just the condo idea is also iffy with me. Just like someone here says. Let Randalls Island be a water park. Coney Island an amusement park/resort.

[MidtownGuy]

more at: http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/issueoftheweek/20070611/200/2205


Opportunity Around a Great Building

By Ari Shalam

In 2004, we looked around Coney Island and saw what it could be. We saw the new Stillwell Avenue subway station. We saw the Cyclones stadium, which was a great public investment although not necessarily planned the way we would have done it. We could see the Parachute Jump go into motion and the aquarium. We saw a lot of public investment and initiative.

We saw the wonderful history of Coney Island. We saw the beaches. A lot of money had gone into rebuilding those beaches and the Boardwalk. And yet just behind the beaches, there’s all this land lying fallow. You have to ask yourself why. Some of that land was orphaned – cut off from other properties. In particular, the stadium development took land that might have been used for new amusements and cut it off from the amusements already there.

The last thing we saw was a good transportation infrastructure. If New York City is going to accommodate the growth that it needs and the housing formation that the mayor has called, it has to site residential opportunities close to public transportation. Whether it is vehicular transportation or subway transportation, that is where the homes need to be. We need to have sustainable development in the city, and not develop things far away, where people have to drive.

Our first acquisition was in the spring of 2005. The strategic plan came out just around that time. Everything that we are thinking about doing is fixed with that plan. We are going to do what we can to put it together and really bring about the reality of change in Coney Island, rather than some of the failed plans that have come and gone over the years.

Now to something that is near and dear to my heart and to many of the people here: the Childs building. The Childs building is really one of the remarkable landmark structures of Coney Island. In the development community, you hear a lot of people say, “Gee, that shouldn’t be a landmark.” But it is. With the Childs building, there are no doubts. It is a wonderful building.

There are a couple things about it that are particularly important. It happens to be at a place on the Boardwalk where there is a natural bend. Trying to draw people from the narrow, reduced footprint of the amusement area, around the stadium and into some of the more transitional areas, people will look down the boardwalk and see the Childs building. We see that as a kind of gateway piece.

The Childs building has a great history. It was once part of the Childs restaurant chain. Since it closed in 1947, various people have owned it. The person we bought it from was a bookseller. It was an extraordinarily complicated transaction. The person did not really want to do anything with it. Many organizations have tried to talk to this owner. We were successful in August of 2006, finally consummating a long-term ground lease with the option to buy.

We see it as a as a marquee food operation with catering and opportunities for people to come in and not only eat on kind of a passer-by basis, but actually have reservations and sit down. If you look over to Brighton Beach side, you see some restaurants that come out on the Boardwalk. As you walk by, they really pull you in.

We have proposed restoring the fascia of the building. There are some beautiful medallions on there and great detail work. The interior of the building was a mess. It was dark and dingy. We have cleaned it up made it safer, installed security.

We are trying to get in a position where it could be used very soon. Because we don’t know how the ultimate rezoning and development will occur on Coney Island, we have to be careful of what money we spend now. But we are working on a way to open up the historic parts on a temporary basis this summer or at least open up the front portions of the building for that.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1332/687505587_f2c50d57e7.jpg
Childs Building: Restoring a onetime jewel of the Boardwalk

One of the ideas we kicked around is to try to create access to a second floor, or the roof, for a catering facility. Wouldn’t it be great to have a wedding or an event and come out to the roof and look at the ocean? If you look at some of the old pictures, you can see that there was almost a beer garden up there. We’re going to try and restore that. But the plan for that building really has to be taken in context with everything that’s going to happen around it, not only the plans for the parachute jump, but also for Steeplechase Park which is a block or two away. We have to see what happens with the rest of Coney Island.

[mosesnbklyn]

I would like to thank the other members for posting news items - its hard to find good local news - but I am always especially interested to hear about Coney Island. We need to get News 12 - brooklyn to hang around the hood more.

Over time I have kept track of the revitalization plans for Coney Island, and enjoyed the interest from multiple groups in the hopes that the neighborhood would be improved upon, and perhaps even restored to its former glory. Seeing yellow school buses parked on beach front property was an embarrassment and led many residents to believe nothing would ever be done. However, I am glad to see that someone is taking initiative to change things for the better.

As an engineer in the design and construction industry, I have spent some time considering options, plans, and schemes for the larger context- a Coney Island Master Plan. This would fit within the guidelines as set forth by Mayor Bloomberg's PlaNYC2030. This is part of the opening to a letter I am writing to planners and the CIDC in the hopes I can contribute to the 'renaissance'. The major issues with the area will be addressed in detail, and these are summarized:

*ENVIRONMENTAL - flooding, erosion, pollution(CI creek), preservation**
*TRANSPORTATION - traffic is a nightmare and limits all kinds of positive growth, needs major attention before any new development is added. There are plenty of options available for improvements - some are long term some are far out there...
*ECONOMIC DIVERSITY - why is this a ghetto(duh)? can we focus on the middle class...
*ENERGY - in a nutshell this coastal community has access to all 4 elements - 3 of which can be used to harvest renewable energy. Enough potential exists to replace annual electrical usage for the entire community. New developments can and should exhibit this.

Some new innovations that I would like to bring to the table - Environmental Guidelines for all New Development. How would we like all new buildings to be 'green', or environmentally sustainable and naturally attractive? I would! This is very simple - Joe Sitt (if he is still serious) should jump on board.

Basic problems with current development plan:
-buildings are too high compared to parachute jump
-buildings do not have boardwalk frontage, but this is essential for cafes/restaurants/lounges
-needs to show facility and infrastructure info(pre-schematic engineering)
-how is this going to draw people here in the winter?
-does not address any transportation issues, CIDC needs to be more thorough here (please dont refer to the DOT - get a private consultant who has a clue)

I have to admit - I think what Thor is working on can benefit the community - amusements, hotels and retail are the key - even commercial. But it must be carefully considered in the big picture - ie what is the future of all of coney island? its more than the few acres that make up the amusement district. If we rebuild the central amusement district, how do we preserve the identity and the assets (people, environment etc), and provide new facilities for entertainment and hospitality. Were doing some work for Wyndham on a hotel with timeshares in Port Imperial NJ - this is one possibility, and we know that the only reason people go to NJ is to sleep and get a nice view of NYC.

Eugenious has some very interesting and good points. Economics and environment are key issues - and Sitt is no slouch. I would prefer that anyone stating facts should indicate their source - Eugenious is full of opinions - please dont confuse this with facts. If they think they make an annual ROI better than 10% for the next fifty years they will do it. Whether the neighborhood is underwater or struck with major hurricanes - they want to make money. I think the sale of some of these properties was totally over-priced/inflated, and if Thor can flip for a profit they will. If thats the case - I would recommend the NYC-EDC use the laws of Eminent Domain to strip the land from Thor. Theres nothing easier for the Feds to make headlines by protecting a community filled with public housing from a real-estate developer who caters to the rich.

I have many interesting ideas for the community - from housing to energy to commercial development. We also have many opportunities to preserve our natural assets, and enhance them as well. This will make the place much more pleasant.

I just wanted to get some feedback from my neighbors and Coney Island enthusiasts what they think about a 'Green Coney Island' and if they agree with some of the current issues. What else is there? The CIDC has left many holes with their strategic plan including all of the issues I mentioned - were going to have to help them along by voicing these concerns. I like the strategic plans they currently have on their website but they are not very thorough - and that leaves too many questions unanswered, as well as potential options limited.

[unknown memory]

Eugenious has some very interesting and good points. Economics and environment are key issues - and Sitt is no slouch. I would prefer that anyone stating facts should indicate their source - Eugenious is full of opinions - please dont confuse this with facts. If they think they make an annual ROI better than 10% for the next fifty years they will do it. Whether the neighborhood is underwater or struck with major hurricanes - they want to make money. I think the sale of some of these properties was totally over-priced/inflated, and if Thor can flip for a profit they will. If thats the case - I would recommend the NYC-EDC use the laws of Eminent Domain to strip the land from Thor. Theres nothing easier for the Feds to make headlines by protecting a community filled with public housing from a real-estate developer who caters to the rich.


I respect his opinions. It's just that the way he puts it makes it sound almost like Coney's the only one that should worry about hurricanes. The Jersey shore survived as well with the hurricanes and they're still rolling like it's nothing. Although, yes, I agree with his concerns about the environmental issues just like yours about the project. As well as how it's going to cater to who exactly... And money's no surprise.

I hope Sitt takes the environment really into aspect of his project. I want to see Coney Island thrive much better than its current condition and to become something that really makes me want to go there. ^__^

[NIMBYkiller]

I really don't think transportation is much of a problem. There's a plethora of subways. Yes, getting there from, Jersey or even Queens is a bit of a pain. For Jersey, run a ferry. Sitts original plan called for a ferry terminal anyway. Have a ferry running between Coney Island and the new water park on Randalls Island. For Queens, I guess a bus will have to do.

And when you say commercial development, you mean like offices, or retail? While I think accessibility wise, Coney Island is PERFECT for high rise offices, I'm not so sure how compatible the two(amusements and offices) are.

[fioco]

Click on the following banner for a multimedia presentation:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/interactives/coneyportrait/454_ts.jpg (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/interactives/coneyportrait/index.html)

A Sea Change at Coney Island?
Plan to Redevelop Aging Resort Pits Kitsch vs. Cash

By Anthony Faiola (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/anthony+faiola/)
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 11, 2007; Page A01

NEW YORK -- The rumors waft along the boardwalk, floating from the lips of gossipy locals, strong as the scent of ketchup and sauerkraut on frankfurters under the scorching Brooklyn (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Brooklyn?tid=informline) sun. Didyahear? The rides may soon be closing. See, the go-karts, they're already gone. What's that you say? They're going to knock down the place and rebuild? Whadayatalk. This can't be the last summer of Coney Island (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Coney+Island?tid=informline). No. By most accounts, it is not. But it could be the last summer of Coney Island as we know it.

The birthplace of the roller coaster and the American hot dog is set to fall into the same powerful grip of New York City (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/New+York+City?tid=informline) gentrification that cleaned up Times Square (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Times+Square?tid=informline) and brought luxury lofts to Hell's Kitchen. Thor Equities, a mall and commercial real estate developer, has amassed much of Coney Island's six-block-long amusement area, with public hearings expected later this summer on a $1.5 billion redesign of the area into an upscale techno theme park with retail space, high-rise timeshare towers and hotels.

True, Coney Island has seen better days. From its glittering start as a pioneer of American amusement -- a turn-of-the-last-century menagerie of racetracks, novelty rides and vice -- the magical sandbar on the edge of Brooklyn has morphed into a shrunken husk of kitsch.
It nevertheless hung on as a bastion of old-time New York (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/New+York?tid=informline) shtick and a refuge in this hyper-priced city for families and lovers seeking shoestring laughs. Chuy the Mexican Wolf Man still performs his high-wire act at Sideshow by the Sea. A ride on the storied wood-and-steel Cyclone costs $6. Add a greasy lunch on the boardwalk and you're out just 10 bucks.

Change is already afoot. Landlord disputes and squabbles with the eager developers, who hope to break ground within 18 months, caused the operators of Coney's Island's miniature golf course, boat ride and go-karts to close this year, leaving parts of the area boarded up. More plan to hit the road by summer's end.

Talk now is of luring the likes of Starbucks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Starbucks+Corporation?tid=informline) and T.G.I. Friday's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/TGI+Friday%27s+Inc.?tid=informline) to a district long famous for independent food stalls with hand-painted signs. A modern "Coney Island Park" with a vertical roller coaster and digital hall of mirrors would replace the cheap carny rides and decidedly low-tech game arcades that dot Astroland, Coney Island's largest surviving amusement park.

Supporters of the snazzy redevelopment say the run-down place needs a new look -- "a Coney Island for the 21st century," better suited to New York's evolution into a city that is safer, cleaner and richer than at any point in its modern history. But other New Yorkers are aghast, seeing it as the symbolic last nail in the coffin of the rough-edged fun that once made New York New York.

This city's once-serendipitous streets, they say, have gradually devolved into a bland collection of chain stores, over-conceptualized restaurants and upscale retail spaces that, while larger and higher-priced, increasingly have little else to separate them from similar fare elsewhere in America. They point to redeveloped Times Square, now kid-safe and complete with the world's largest Toys "R" Us, but bereft of urban vibe. They look at SoHo, once an edgy artists district with affordable lofts now fully transformed into multimillion-dollar spaces for Wall Street (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Wall+Street?tid=informline) executives and the stores that love them, including Dolce & Gabbana, Prada (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Prada+SpA+Group?tid=informline) and Chanel (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Chanel+SA?tid=informline).

The cheap thrills at Coney Island stood apart from the ubiquity.

"It's all a chain of sad events," said Fran Lebowitz, the noted New York denizen and author. "Manhattan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Manhattan?tid=informline) has become psychotically expensive, turning Brooklyn, where no one used to go, into the home of the $8 million condo. Now they've set their eyes on Coney Island and we'll lose that, too. . . . What we are losing -- no, have already lost -- is the authenticity of New York."
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/07/11/GR2007071100065.gif

Not fair, say some on Coney Island, who look to the unabashed wealth elsewhere in the new New York with envy and desire.

"Look, I think Coney Island needs to be more ritzy; you know, do something that's gonna bring in the people with the money," said Anthony Berlingieri, operator of Shoot the Freak, a boardwalk game where paying customers shoot paintball guns at a live human target. He is an outspoken supporter of the redevelopment proposal presented by New York-based Thor Equities.

"You got some people out here, they're just opposed to change, ya see," he continued in his heavy Brooklyn accent. "But I say, look at the rest of New York. Look at the progress and all these affluent people everywhere. Hey, why shouldn't Coney Island get a piece of that?"

In fact, they argue, Coney Island would merely be going back to its roots as a place to amaze the masses with the latest entertainment technology.

That is the way it started. When the 19th-century rich of New York were retreating to the grand hotels of nearby Manhattan Beach, the working class found refuge from lives of hard labor at Coney Island's beaches, vaudeville houses, music halls and revolutionary amusement parks. Decades into the 20th century, they gaped at Luna Park, a fantasy city of brilliantly lighted minarets, domes, globes and spires. They rode the mechanical horses at Steeplechase Park and delighted in esplanades filled with exotic Middle Eastern dancers, snake charmers and fire eaters.

That Coney Island later went downhill is not in dispute. Luna Park burned down in 1944. The cult classic film "The Warriors" captured the gang violence that engulfed Coney Island and much of New York during the 1970s. A small collection of rides built next to the Wonder Wheel in the 1980s was the major upgrade to the area.

"Everyone's fear is that I'm going to turn this thing into Fairyland Parkland or something, with lots of trees and grass with some la-la idealistic vision," said Joseph J. Sitt, the Brooklyn-born chief executive of Thor Equities. "But that's not what I'm going to do. I'm not going to take away that urban feel of Coney Island. I want to bring it back."

Sitt's initial plan also called for high-rise condominiums. It sparked immediate fears that his real aim was to reduce the attraction component of Coney Island, given that residential real estate is unlikely to coexist well with a loud amusement zone.

He has since turned those condos into plans for high-rise timeshares and hotels instead. But many critics -- including city officials who must pass judgment on the project -- remain skeptical. His sharpest critics have said he may simply be seeking zoning changes to flip the land at a higher price. Others insist he will make Coney Island too upscale, rendering it unaffordable for the working-class citizens who now frequent the boardwalk. Sitt, however, insists neither will happen.

Some attractions -- including the Cyclone roller coaster and the old Parachute Jump -- are historic landmarks protected by the city and cannot be torn down. But preservationists have criticized Sitt for what appear to be plans to tear down two other, unprotected spots -- including the Grasshorn Building, the oldest standing structure on Coney Island.

The biggest controversy, however, remains Sitt's contention that he needs hotels and timeshares as high as 40 stories to make his redeveloped Coney Island financially viable. They would, he says, help him turn Coney Island -- now open only during the summer months -- into a year-round destination.

But critics say such structures would dwarf the island's landmarks, ruining its quaint appeal. Meanwhile, his plans to spruce up the joint -- "you know, like bring in a bookstore with a Starbucks in it," he said -- have many crying foul.

"He wants to bling it up; he wants to bring in all this retail and create a kind of enclosed mall with high-rise towers," said Robert Lieber, president of the New York City Economic Development Corp. "That isn't consistent with the historic nature of Coney Island."

If he fails to win approval for his vision, many still fear for Coney Island's fate. Will the land just sit vacant and unused? Will another developer come in? If so, with what designs?

"We all want a revitalized Coney Island, but what they're proposing would change the nature of a place that touched the hearts of millions of people," said Charles Denson, executive director of the Coney Island History Project. "We all want to see improvements, but all those high-rises? That's not Coney Island."

© 2007 The Washington Post Company

[SuddenImpact]

(cut-n-paste from the Post)

CONEY LAND SWAP EYED TO END SAND-STILL

By RICH CALDER


August 7, 2007 -- A boardwalk land swap is on the table that could salvage the fast-fading dream of returning Coney Island to its glory days, The Post has learned.

With the Bloomberg administration and developer Joe Sitt at loggerheads over whether housing should be included in his $1.5 billion glitzy makeover plan, Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff has offered an olive branch, sources said.

Under Doctoroff's compromise, Sitt would give the city the 10 acres of boardwalk land he owns along both sides of Stillwell Avenue so that the city could sell or lease it to amusement operators.

In return, the city would give Sitt about 350,000 square feet of land a few blocks west - the parking lot at KeySpan Park and the Abe Stark Rink.

Such a deal would ensure the amusement district can be revived without the luxury condos or time-share homes that Sitt has said he needs to make the plan financially viable.

A source at Sitt's Thor Equities company said, "Joe is up for anything that will get this project going." Doctoroff declined comment.

[SuddenImpact]

I'd make this trade in a heart beat. Couple of questions to think about tho...

1) Why would Sitt sell his 10 acres (it's actually 13 acres and it cost his company about $1.5B) for "only" 350,000 square feet?

Keep in mind that Sitt sold another 350,000 square acres (located just west of the stadium's parking lot which is now being offered) last year for "only" $90M.

2) The ice rink is on the city/park land, but so is the Parachute Jump. What would become of that?

3) How will this effect KeySpan Park itself? The 7,000 seat stadium often sells out, but without a parking lot, could the Mets/Cyclones opt out of Coney?

[BrooklynRider]

Anything that involves Sitt is a losing deal for the city. He's a first-rate scumbag and is an established property flipper - on EVERY property he owns or has owned.

No deal.

[antinimby]

350k square feet is equal to about 8 acres.

[ZippyTheChimp]

1) Why would Sitt sell his 10 acres (it's actually 13 acres and it cost his company about $1.5B) for "only" 350,000 square feet?It seems to me that Sitt wants to build luxury housing on the Boardwalk (or at least own the rights, which he can sell), and the entertainment component is just to get him access. Losing a few acres in a swap to avoid a drawn out fight may be worth it.
The ice rink is on the city/park land, but so is the Parachute Jump. What would become of that?Parachute Jump is a city landmark and on the National Register.

How will this effect KeySpan Park itself? The 7,000 seat stadium often sells out, but without a parking lot, could the Mets/Cyclones opt out of Coney?A surface parking lot is a waste anywhere, but especially off the Boardwalk. Don't know who owns them, but there are two vacant lots across Surf Ave from Keyspan. A multilevel garage could replace the lot.

One possible problem: a big building close to the Parachute Jump.

[BrooklynRider]

More Departures from Thor's Coney Island Team

Friday, September 07, 2007

Yesterday, we noted in a post on Curbed that Thor Equities and developer Joe Sitt had parted company with spokesperson Lee Silberstein and the Marino Organization. It was unclear who had initiated the split. This morning we can report, based on a tip from another reliable source, that Thor has also parted ways with Kramer Levin, the firm acting as its land use attorney. In fact, our source reports that the lawyers "abandoned ship," which would seem to indicate that they jumped rather than were pushed. However, the cause of the abandonment is unclear.

Even if you are not into personnel moves, the changes are interesting. With the Coney Island process and negotiations seemingly at a critical juncture, the departure of key team members certainly would seem to raise the possibility that things may not be going as well as the developer had hoped. Or that they may, in fact, be going quite badly and that creatures are abandoning the USS Sitt. This is pure conjecture on our part, but it would seem odd that team members would be quitting or being fired if things were going well and the developer was on the verge of announcing that things will be moving forward as planned.


Weekend Team Thor Update

Saturday, September 8, 2007

There is an important update in the still developing story of the roster of the Thor Equities Coney Island team. You might recall that, on Wednesday, Lee Silberstein of the Marino Organization, which has handled public relations for the embattled Coney Island redevelopment plan, let people know that he was no longer on the Thor job. The next day, we found out that the firm working as Thor's land use attorney, Kramer Levin, was also off the Coney job. Yesterday, Crains filled in some important detail on the identity of the new players:

In a sign that Thor Equities is gearing up for a fight over the Bloomberg administration's proposal for rezoning of Coney Island, the company has hired James Capalino of Capalino & Co. and Knickerbocker SKD to handle its lobbying, public relations and outreach moving forward. Landowner Thor has submitted several designs for remaking the amusement park, but the Department of City Planning has rejected them and is expected to present its own vision this fall. A Bloomberg administration spokesman says, "We remain committed to our objectives for Coney Island and are looking forward to working with stakeholders to achieve them."

Mr. Capalino is a former commissioner in the Koch Administration. One of our very informed Coney sources confirmed that both the Marino Organization and Kramer Levin were dismissed by developer Joe Sitt. "Joe apparently isn't listening to anyone who isn't telling him what he wants to hear," he observes.

http://gowanuslounge.blogspot.com/

[Eugenious]

Anything that involves Sitt is a losing deal for the city. He's a first-rate scumbag and is an established property flipper - on EVERY property he owns or has owned.

No deal.

The city has done such a great job on this project I think we all know what will happen if Sitt is forced give up this project. Coney Island's future will be finally dead, as in DEAD.

[BrooklynRider]

I don't agree with the doom and gloom forecasts of people who have no recognition of the Coney Island name and brand. I would guess that anyone who thinks that C.I. would be dead has not been following development very closely.

[Eugenious]

I don't agree with the doom and gloom forecasts of people who have no recognition of the Coney Island name and brand. I would guess that anyone who thinks that C.I. would be dead has not been following development very closely.

Lol. what Coney Island brand? Are you serious? Have you been to the present day Coney Island? I love all you people who sit there with your nice coffee table books with black and white pictures of the Coney Island 100 years ago and crap on everything that doesn't fit in to the way Coney was 100 years ago. Well wake the hell up, Coney Island has been a dump for well over 30 years and as much as everyone loves to talk how it's going to be great again it doesn't change the fact that no respectable developer would touch this area. Where are the alternate proposals? Where is the corporate zeal to restore the area? There is none, corporate America and mainstream companies stay away from politicized minefield that is legacy projects like Coney Island. This is all politics and that's why no one in their right mind will touch this.

I'm not saying Sitt is right, I'm just saying what city has done to this area is far worse and it does NOT have a game plan should Sitt abscond from the project. Think twice before you rush to judgment.

[Ninjahedge]

CI is a dump. The aquarium is also. The area could be so much nicer!

Somethingthat was a major attraction is now rendered to something less than the immitators down the Jersey Shore (not that they are BAD, but they just did not have the same chutzpah).

And the surrounding area? Beachfront (practically) property next to a boardwalk and it all looks like tenement houses.


Hell, even Nathans looks like a Roach Motel.... :(

[MidtownGuy]

Where is the corporate zeal to restore the area? There is none, corporate America and mainstream companies...

screw corporations. we don't want Disney on the boardwalk

[BrooklynRider]

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=9&aid=73425

NY1 updated the story from Sunday, 9/9/2001. Now it says:

Thor Equities didn't comment on camera for this story. But off camera, an employee who says he's familiar with negotiations says Albert wants to pay too little considering how much the park makes every summer. Albert wouldn't say how much that is.

“Just one more year. That's all we're asking,” said a protestor.

At this point, it looks like protestors just might get their wish.

“Thor Equities is putting together and trying to decide what their next offer will be to Carol Albert and Astroland to keep it open,” said Brooklyn City Councilman Domenic Recchia.

Both sides will have to act fast. As things currently stand, Albert is supposed to have the property cleared off by January. She says that means she'll have to put her rides on the auction block in a week and a half if there's no deal by then.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

So, now Thor wants $3Million in rent per year from Astroland, because Astroland makes too much money. Wasn't Thor's original argument that amusements don't make money?

[ZippyTheChimp]

I was in CI 2 weeks ago. Astroland was packed. Went on a ride called Top Spin.

Good ride if you're 16 or an idiot.

[BrooklynRider]

^ The pink thing where they squirt water in your face?


TOP SPIN

Unlike regular rides with a vertical rotation axis, the main rotation axis of the Top Spin lies horizontal at a height of approx. 10 meters above the ground.

Each passenger is held by two hydraulically operated shoulder and lap bars with body-hugging cushioning which, after the smooth closing movement, are themselves locked in position by an additional pneumatic catch.

Both ends of the bench supporting girder are connected to so-called spin girders through floating pendulum bearings. The spin girders in turn are connected to the main rotation axis via a ball-and-socket joint.

The thrust bearings of the spin girders with the connecting shaft are two uprights consisting of welded box girders with one flange joint each. These uprights are bolted onto a robust base structure- which on roadmodels is mounted on a transport chassis.

http://www.hussrides.com/52aTopSpinMoreInfo.htm

[ZippyTheChimp]

Yeah, that's the bad boy.

[SuddenImpact]

Making Coney Island Green

by Tom Angotti
September 2007



Photo by: Herb Bar-David.

The city took a step toward sustaining historic Coney Island this summer when it put a roadblock in front of a $1.5 billion plan by Thor Equities to turn the legendary area into a resort enclave. As New Yorkers warmed up on Coney’s beaches, the administration threw cold water on the proposal to speed up the rides and bring in hotels and time-shares. Thor’s scaled-back plan, which included a glass-enclosed water park, three hotels and 400 time-share units, restaurants, movie theaters and high-tech arcades, was a bit much even for a city administration that likes to think big.

Now the question is whether the city can come up with an alternative that helps to sustain and build up what is left of the storied amusement area. Will they be able to do it without a mega-developer like Thor? And will the city continue to react to the schemes put forth by private developers rather than coming up with ideas of its own?

As incongruous as it might seem, Coney Island, with its honky-tonk image, could become a model of sustainable development. If the city wants that to happen, it could look to some key decisions already made at Coney.
Where’s the Plan?

New York City’s long-range sustainability plan, PlaNYC2030, says little about unique areas like Coney Island, which don’t fit in the category of residential neighborhood or an average business district. However, Coney Island redevelopment could play an important role in meeting the plan’s objectives of insuring that all New Yorkers live within a 10-minute walk of open space, cleaning up the city’s waterways, improving mass transit and air quality and reducing global warning.

If the past is any indication, the way to accomplish these objectives is through carefully thought-out small steps over a long period of time instead of giant commercial adventures and “big ideas.” For example, long before PlaNYC2030, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority renovated the Stillwell Avenue subway station, making it the greenest, most energy-efficient subway station in the city. Completed in 2006, the station has photovoltaic panels that provide solar energy and an open design that maximizes the use of natural sunlight. This example of smart design and public policy has given a small boost to the private amusement area and to many nearby public facilities.

Previously, the city preserved the Cyclone, Coney Island’s famed roller coaster that opened in 1927. It became a city landmark in 1988 and a federal landmark in 1991. This mostly wooden structure remains an icon of the amusement area, marking its identity as distinct from the kind of high-tech, high-priced theme parks epitomized by Six Flags.

The corporate amusement giants also cannot replicate the non-profit, Coney Island USA, a focal point for many unique cultural and civic groups that have helped keep the historic area alive. And in yet another small step, the city government and the Coney Island Development Corporationnow plan to develop Steeplechase Plaza, a public park that would feature a restored B&B Carousel.

So it may be smarter for the city to think smaller and move one step at a time. The popularity of the relatively tiny Nellie Bly Amusement Park, only a couple of miles from Coney Island near Bensonhurst’s waterfront, suggests that many small parks might work better than one big one.
Stadiums On The Island?

In an earlier effort to spark development at Coney Island, the city encouraged the building of Keyspan Park, where the Brooklyn Cyclones minor league baseball team plays. This was a questionable addition to Coney Island’s waterfront when it was built during the Giuliani administration. The minor league field broke the classical Coney Island model that combined amusement park, beach and boardwalk. Stadiums for professional teams and leagues are great for team owners and the health and welfare of the small number of athletes who play in the stadiums, but do little more than encourage the sedentary lifestyle and junk food binging that contribute to the city’s epidemics of obesity and diabetes.

Still, compared to the monster Shea and Yankee Stadiums, Keyspan Park has opened the door to a different kind of professional sports. Much smaller than the baseball behemoths, Keyspan is only a stone’s throw from the boardwalk, beach and the Abe Stark skating rink and within walking distance of the amusement park. With affordable ticket prices and easy access via mass transit, it attracts families with limited recreational options in their neighborhoods and works as part of a daily outing. On the other hand, Shea and Yankee stadiums function as enclosed enclaves, attracting a large fan base that drives to the games, and they funnel people in and out as quickly as possible.

And why not put the arena for the Nets basketball team in Coney Island, as planner Simon Bertrang proposes? Two previous studies recommended Coney Island as a location for a professional arena, and until recently that view was held by Brooklyn’s political establishment. Wouldn’t the 18,000 seat arena that the basketball team’s owner, Forest City Ratner, now proposes to cram in between the Prospect Heights and Fort Greene neighborhoods make more sense nested in Coney Island’s amusement area?

If this were to happen – the Nets could lose $35 million every year the Atlantic Yards projectis delayed -- a Coney Island arena should not go the way of the New York Aquarium, which is isolated from the amusement park. Nor should it be dropped in next to Keyspan Park, thereby creating a big enclave of professional facilities. But if properly designed, the home court for the Nets could be physically integrated with Coney Island’s recreational facilities.

The City’s Role

The heart of Coney’s surviving amusement area, Astroland Amusement Park, closed for the season on September 9. The owner of the land, Thor Equities, may very well decide not to renew Astroland’s lease for next year’s season, although a petition campaign is underway to prevent this from happening.

Lacking the kind of public or private commitment given to the Cyclone and B&B Carousel, no amusement park can survive and keep prices affordable to average New Yorkers. Thor wants public subsidies to support any amusements it puts on the site.

In light of this, it is hard to imagine any steps at Coney Island going forward until the administration takes a more direct role in development. Planes to rezone the area are simply not enough. Zoning leaves the door open for development but can’t make it happen, nor does it guarantee preservation.

For a number of reasons, Coney Island cries out for an active city role. If we look to the year 2030 and beyond, Coney Island will probably be one of the most vulnerable areas to rising sea levels. While Coney’s 60,000 residents may be willing to risk flooding and evacuation, it certainly makes no sense to encourage more permanent housing there. Millions of dollars in public subsidies already go to maintain Coney Island’s beach and protect it from erosion. When will the cost of such efforts exceed the public benefit?

Beyond this, a strong public role is imperative if Coney Island is to remain affordable to New Yorkers, both as a place to live and a place to play. Today the park and recreation areas are a boon for New Yorkers with limited incomes and for Brooklynites. Preserving affordability on what was once known as America’s playground is as important as saving the Cyclone and is consistent with PlaNYC2030’s aim of preserving affordable housing.

[SuddenImpact]

Meant to say the GotHam Gazette.

Anyway, good article. I find the (once planned) Nets to Coney Island idea particularly interesting.

I say once planned because in January of 2003, Marty Markowitz, in his state of the borough speech, talked of expanding the proposed Sportsplex Arena from 14,000 to 18,000 so that Coney Island could get an NBA team. Coney councilman Domenic Recchia endorsed Marty's vision soon later.

Sportsplex was to be built by Bruce Ratner but sometime between January and October of that same year, when Ratner's Atlantic Yards plans were memorably announced at a Junior's press conference, the entire Sportsplex idea went missing. In December of 2003, Ratner had another press conference (with Marty, Bloomberg, Schumer all in attendance) to unveil the Gehry designed Atlantic Yards Arena.

By January of 2004, he officially purchased the Nets. It's been a struggle ever since but the Atlantic Yards Arena (uhm, Barclay's Center) should be up and running by October of 2009.

Meanwhile neither Marty nor Recchia, nor Ratner, nor Bloomberg has ever mentioned Sportsplex since. The official web site doesn't even exist anymore. As if it never happened. In fact, I'm not even sure if it was to be a venue for Bloomberg's failed 2005 attempt to snag the 2012 Olympics.

Personally, I agree with most here in not trusting Thor. Personally, I don't want to see America's First Playground turn into yet another high rise condo development. But what happened to the other plans? Where is Sportsplex and the $60 million dollars of state and city money that was earmarked to build it?

[mosesnbklyn]

Great Article - I wonder if he was reading this forum...

As incongruous as it might seem, Coney Island, with its honky-tonk image, could become a model of sustainable development. If the city wants that to happen, it could look to some key decisions already made at Coney.
Where’s the Plan?

New York City’s long-range sustainability plan, PlaNYC2030, says little about unique areas like Coney Island, which don’t fit in the category of residential neighborhood or an average business district. However, Coney Island redevelopment could play an important role in meeting the plan’s objectives of insuring that all New Yorkers live within a 10-minute walk of open space, cleaning up the city’s waterways, improving mass transit and air quality and reducing global warning.
I think honky tonk is somewhat generous given that the area is pretty run-down. Personally we could do with less subsidized units but the buildings are just OLD - I know russian immigrants paying near market rate for these units - its scary. At least they dont get utility bills.

Green is a virtue that is easily attainable - but it has to be carefully planned if its going to be done properly. Thats a long discussion in itself - but the area is geographically perfect between two bodies of water and having local parks and public land. Some options are Sustainable Dev. / Environmental Guidelines modeled after Battery Park City. whats interesting is that every property along the beach/boardwalk has the potential to be LEED Platinum. I know several EDC employees who are LEED certified but eventually they give design work to consultants - they can plan a great deal. I know that Hines, Durst, Tishman, and some other developers are into sustainable development - we need more. The current laws are going to require some LEED certification if public subsidies are given, but I think the goal should be ZERO subsidy - or some kind of partnership where the city gets more bang for its buck. I like Ratners plan for Atlantic yards but its too big and they city gave him way too much money to build a bunch of Condos btw I wonder if those are going to be Hotels with the way the market is turning out.

I like the idea of sports stadiums but NBA? I dont think Coney Island can currently accommodate 80,000 fans - we already have the police directing traffic on neptune, West 17th and surf during Cyclones games [On September 7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_7), 2007; during the final regular season game (a 5-4 victory over the Lowell Spinners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowell_Spinners)), the Cyclones set an all time single game attendance record of 10,073; 2,573 people over the seating capacity of the stadium in 2001]....The normal rush hour traffic (I want to shoot down every light and put in stop signs!!) is getting worse. I think we really need better bus service, some dedicated thru streets with no parking 7-9am, 7pm-12am. How about mermaid going HOV or bring back the trolleys?

A lot of people are coming back to the beach - the water is cleaner this year than in over a decade. Im still going in so long as the air is over 70. We still dont get the huge multi-million crowds like in the old days - Im not sure it will ever reach that...

Mixing all these different types of facilities - hotels, commercial, amusement, entertainment,dining - its very difficult for architects, developers and planners today. We really need a team/group with a vision - hard to find with todays conformists and those in total lala land (its funny when those projects go to construction and the owner is basically SOL!).

[BrooklynRider]

Given the fact that Thor is forcing the further degradation of this area and its future is positively in limbo, I highly doubt any developers are going to go through the rather extraordinary expense of even comtemplating LEED certification. In addition to increased costs in just about every area of planning and implementation, the process requires LEED consultants and enough paperwork to kill a forest in the process of being certified "Green."

My guess is that projects will claim to be designed with "Green Building" technology, but it will all be unsubstantiated.

[brianac]

New York
Brooklyn: One More Season for Astroland

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS


Published: October 25, 2007
The venerable Astroland amusement park in Coney Island will remain open for one more season under a deal announced yesterday with the developer behind the neighborhood’s planned $2 billion makeover. The agreement came after it appeared that the park’s classic rides had gone dark for the last time on Sept. 9. But weeks of talks between the developer, Thor Equities, and the family that owns Astroland, the Alberts, produced a short-term lease. The terms were not made public yesterday. The Alberts, who opened Astroland in 1962, sold the 3.1-acre property off the Boardwalk to Thor last year as part of the developer’s effort to turn 10 acres of Coney Island into a year-round tourist attraction.

[BrooklynRider]

Coney Island dies a long toturous death... :mad:

How many "one more season's" are there?? :confused:

[Alonzo-ny]

As much as coney ilsand is a part of NY character the one time i went there it was horrible, but id rather see it refurbished as an amusement park than turned into condos.

also why is it called island when it isnt one?

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
Yeah, it's misnamed now, but it was an island until the early 1940s, separated from the rest of Brooklyn by Coney Island Creek.

The creek was always misnamed. It was really a strait connecting Gravesend Bay and Sheepshead Bay. The section from the EL at McDonald Ave east to Sheepshead Bay was filled in when the Belt Parkway was built.

The western section to Gravesend Bay still exists. It's still misnamed. It should now be called Coney Island Inlet.

[mosesnbklyn]

Given the fact that Thor is forcing the further degradation of this area and its future is positively in limbo, I highly doubt any developers are going to go through the rather extraordinary expense of even comtemplating LEED certification. In addition to increased costs in just about every area of planning and implementation, the process requires LEED consultants and enough paperwork to kill a forest in the process of being certified "Green."

My guess is that projects will claim to be designed with "Green Building" technology, but it will all be unsubstantiated.

BrooklynRider brings up an important distinction. LEED and the USGBC have been criticized very recently - FastCompany had some interesting points on how many green buildings are only partly green.

Of course the whole concept of green building is innovative and subject to various interpretations - look at the short list of green building guidelines used by various countries:

USA, Canada, China (many): LEED/USGBC
UK: BREAME
France: HQE
Australia: Green Star

Each has different pros/cons - "theres more than one way to skin a cat"...
I think LEED has a very effective focus on site selection and construction waste reduction/efficiency - but others like HQE really take into account local social factors. But thats where science becomes psychology - and I think we can all agree sometimes its just harder to quantify and come to conclusions/agreements.

Im not the biggest proponent of LEED - in fact Battery Park city has its own environmental design guidelines that go way beyond LEED/HQE/BREAME - and I think thats even more effective (less paperwork?) in making real changes to building practices and large developments/communities. Pick one or all - the basic ideas are going to be the same - be efficient, effective, human scale, eco-friendly, and mindful of the larger picture (NYC, Brooklyn, etc.).

FastCompany: "The Green Standard?"
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/119/the-green-standard.html
GreenBiz: "...Green just a marketing tactic"
http://www.greenbiz.com/news/news_third.cfm?NewsID=36003
USGBC Response:
http://www.bdcnetwork.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6486491&rssid=203
Battery Park City Green Guidelines:
http://www.batteryparkcity.org/page/page23.html

Enjoy all the links. There is ALOT of information to digest - CIDC needs some professional help with this - and other aspects. I hope to find out to what extent they have done the research/considerations. Recently around the office I heard that they have http://www.beyerblinderbelle.com/ Architects working on something in the area. More to follow.

[investordude]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/11/08/2007-11-08_city_to_air_new_vision_for_future_of_con-2.html

I personally think the city is making a mistake by separating residential from the resort. If there is no residential component, I think the city should expect a Las Vegas style resort to lead to Las Vegas style activity at the resort - like adult entertainment. I'm not oppossed to that, but I imagine the city is.

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
Explain why that would happen.

Only a small part of Coney Island is the entertainment zone. There are plenty of brownfields outside the zone for residential development.

[investordude]

Without pressure from residents, there will be no stakeholders to block adult entertainment after hours there, and plenty of businesses with a powerful incentive to invite it. I'm all for that, but if the city isn't, they should make sure there are stakeholders who want the place to be wholesome at night.

[ZippyTheChimp]

What do you consider adult entertainment, and when is after hours?

[investordude]

Zippy, I'll leave it to your imagination :)

brownstoner and curbed are reporting plans to build at amusement park in the area on 15 acres. My take - that's not really enough land to build a modern amusement park that could compete with Six Flags, etc, and do it next to hotels But it might be enough to provide people with a different kind of entertainment when the kids go home ...

[ZippyTheChimp]

I'm not following your line of thought - concerning a residential component inside the zone.

If there will be adult entertainment inside the zone after the kids go home, what's the problem?

In a broader sense, why would you want to mix any type of entertainment and residents? That always causes problems conflicts.

[investordude]

Zippy, that I actually agree with. I don't think the city should block adult entertainment. I'm just saying I doubt the city feels the same way...

[investordude]

I don't see why New York City should subsidize an amusement park or run the land. Just give it to Six Flags and be done with it. I don't see why the city should try ot acquire land for this.

[antinimby]

Bloomberg unveils Coney Island plan

The rezoning would create a 15-acre outdoor amusement park east of KeySpan Park,
thwarting plans by developer Thor Equities to build condominiums on the land.


http://cnimg.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CN&Date=20071108&Category=FREE&ArtNo=71108010&Ref=AR&Profile=1102&maxw=319&border=0
__________________NYC Economic Development Corp.


November 08. 2007 (http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071108/FREE/71108010/1102) 3:32PM
By: Kira Bindrim

Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Thursday unveiled a rezoning plan for Coney Island that would create a 15-acre outdoor amusement park and edge out property owner Thor Equities, which wants to build hotels and time-shares -- a $1.5 billion project that would also require rezoning.

Mr. Bloomberg’s 47-acre rezoning would divide Coney Island into three development zones surrounding KeySpan Park. Coney Island North would contain 1,800 residential units and 100,000 square feet of retail space, while Coney Island West would include 2,700 units of housing and up to 360,000 square feet of retail.

The real changes lie in Coney Island East, a 21-acre segment of land owned primarily by Joseph Sitt’s Thor Equities. The city’s plan would zone Coney East for amusements, hotels and restaurants, potentially thwarting Mr. Sitt’s plans to build hotels that include more than 400 time-share units.

But Mr. Bloomberg will have to get approval from the state legislature, and acquire the land from Mr. Sitt through a cash or land swap deal. Only then could the city issue its request to developers for proposals to build the amusement park. If Mr. Sitt doesn’t cooperate, he would be entitled to rebuild his lots according to present zoning rules, which prohibit condo or time-share developments.

“We’re disappointed by the mayor’s presentations, but are optimistic that a deal can be reached between the city, the landowners and the community to make Coney Island an even greater place to live and visit,” Mr. Sitt said in a statement.

City planners will start a public review process next year, and anticipate that construction could start by mid-2009. Construction would take up to 20 years to complete.

“Just imagine the economic impact on this community if a new, revitalized Coney Island, with its exciting new attractions, could hold just a fraction of our city’s 44 million annual visitors,” Mr. Bloomberg said during a speech before the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce at Coney Island’s Gargiulo’s Restaurant.

Mr. Sitt’s development plans were never without controversy. An original blueprint that included a 40-story tower on the boardwalk, as well as hundreds of rental apartments and luxury condominiums, was lambasted by city officials and local leaders.

Although Mr. Sitt dressed down the development plan in June, eliminating the tower and the apartments, community leaders have still say his design for an enclosed amusement park seemed more like a shopping mall, and claim there is little difference between residential apartments and the proposed time-shares. http://www.crainsnewyork.com/images/diamond.gif

© 2007 Crain Communications, Inc.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Existing zoning (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/coney_island/existing_zoning.pdf)

Proposed rezoning framework (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/coney_island/proposed_rezoning_frame.pdf)

Parkland (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/coney_island/parkland_strategy.pdf)

Land use framework (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/coney_island/landuse_frame.pdf)

Dept of City Planning Rezoning Documents (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/coney_island/coneyisland5.shtml)

[SuddenImpact]

This from New York 1. Click on the link for the video. Seems like the land swap with Thor is now officially on the table. Deno's Wonder Wheel, who never sold out to Thor, is left asking questions.

Look closely and notice that the Abe Stark ice rink is "missing" from the video presentation.


http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=75412

City Leaders Unveil Vision For Coney Island
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/images/homepage/video_icon_02.gif
November 08, 2007

The city unveiled sweeping plans to redevelop Coney Island Thursday afternoon.

Under the plan proposed by the mayor, Coney Island would be reborn as a year-round destination with amusements and a comprehensive rezoning of the neighborhood for new housing, hotels, stores and park space.

“We all recognize that Coney Island just isn't what it could be,” said Bloomberg. “Its amusements haven’t kept pace with changing times and tastes, and for much of the year, activity in the area lags badly.”

The plan calls for rezoning the northern end of Coney Island for hotels, residential and retail space, and transforming the streetscape on the west. On the east, the city wants to rezone 21 acres as parkland, much of which is now privately owned. It would be designated as a giant amusement park, with a looping, high-speed roller coaster spanning the area.

The famed cyclone and the parachute jump, as well as the wonder wheel, would stay put.

The city says it is searching for a new developer to lease the amusement area, challenging the role of current developer Joe Sitt of Thor Equities. The city has blocked his mega-proposal because of objections to his plans for time shares and luxury condos.

“What we expect his part to be, and certainly we'll have negotiations with him and other land developers will be offered the opportunity to, in the case of Joe, swap the his property for another parcel or for cash that will represents a substantial premium over the value of the property,” explained Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff.

"We're disappointed by the mayor's presentation, but are optimistic that a deal can be reached between the city, the landowners, and the community to make Coney Island an even greater place to live and visit,” said Thor Equities in a statement.

Dennis Vourderis, co-owner of Deno's Wonder Wheel Amusement Park, says he is open-minded about the city's plan, but has his reservations.

“We're not living in a Democratic society right now,” said Vourderis. “We might be victims of eviction, condemnation, who knows.”

The city hopes to have a formal public review of the plan by early next year.

- Shazia Khan

[mosesnbklyn]

The meeting was well received. Every single one of my points was mentioned and touched upon at the last meeting. I even liked most of the proposed re-zoning plans. The problem is now how to really address these new and existing issues - I get the feeling that the board will need help with this.

Summary from my notes:

New development stats:
*Coney West - 3 Million SF mixed-use Res/Retail
*Coney North - 1.9 Million SF mixed-use Res/Retail
*Coney East - 1.4 Million SF amusement, hotels, restaurants, commercial, retail
Totals:
*6.3 Million SF construction (can we estimate 1 year per 500k SF for construction time = 12.6yrs - better than never? 15 years is more likely - but not too shabby).
*4500 new housing units; ie 4500 new cars mostly off-peak but need parking in new development.they mentioned this can be accomodated - its tight but possible. The problem is what happens when some of these people try to drive around. Lets hope there isn't a parade or baseball game....
*10,000 construction related jobs and 3,000 FT jobs. (off-season included?) can we get a breakdown on this? what kinds of jobs? etc

New & Noteworthy
*mention that new community center (100 more low-income units to help the balance; not cool) will have olympic swimming pool - I love it! is this for real, doubtful. 50meters is BIG! check one out Eisenhower State Park LI.
*mention that Abe Stark is in a bad location. Consider relocating - very interesting..the presenter offered moving it into the amusment area - for winter ice skating and summer roller skating? hmm. But how and whats the cost in terms of amusement area lost and construction. not Cheap I promise. tough choices. how about we move it 50ft into the current parking lot and build more cafes on boardwalk behind it that capture the waste heat from the ice-chillers?
*365(24/7?) Activity-cant seem to find any good info on this, but you get the idea - make it a year round destination. This could be a big limitation of outdoor amusements, but fine for indoor stuff. nice poster - need to take a better look at it. weak on festivals - lots of MTV like crap - sports great but what else? cinqo de mayo?? its not cancun but nyc is full of corny happy hours...how about a JAZZ FESTIVAL? Montreal baby!
*may want to limit building heights to below parachute jump - but there are many tall buildings in trump, luna, and projects in coney (sea park) - not sure if they are taller though...

So - what are you people thinking about all this?

[justfabulouslyme]

That's all well and good, but do any of you miss the seediness of it all? I am born and raised in NYC and I must admit, I love Coney for its sheer shadyness. :)

[lofter1]

Spoken ^ like a true NYer http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Welcome aboard, justfabulouslyme

[antinimby]

So - what are you people thinking about all this?I didn't read through your whole post because the parking you talked about stopped me in my tracks.

Regular New Yorkers probably like yourself don't realize it but when you make accommodations for cars, then you are just inviting people to drive and therefore, create more cars and ultimately that leads to more traffic.

Once this happens, those very same people will then at that time in the future, complain that growth is bad and that it must be contained because traffic is bad.

That is very poor planning, shortsighted and not very intelligent. What is best since this area is served by many subway lines is to discourage the use of the automobile. You do this by NOT providing for extra parking.

When there isn't enough parking spaces both on and off street to go around, people will be less likely to buy and use their cars since there would be no place to park it.

If I were the community, I would be arguing against extra parking, not more.

And by the way, the parachute jump height limit is silly. All it would lead to is a table top skyline and a bunch of squat buildings. I don't think that the parachute jump is so sacred that this is so necessary. You want first and foremost Coney Island to be attractive.

[justfabulouslyme]

Spoken ^ like a true NYer http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

Welcome aboard, justfabulouslyme

Thanks Lofter! I've been looking for a good NYC forum for quite some time now. I'm up in Stony Brook for college and I'm dying out here.. I really miss the city!

[mosesnbklyn]

I didn't read through your whole post because the parking you talked about stopped me in my tracks...then you are just inviting people to drive and therefore, create more cars and ultimately that leads to more traffic...the parachute jump height limit is silly...You want first and foremost Coney Island to be attractive.

I agree and disagree. Your comments are timely since gasoline prices are shooting upwards!! We dont want more cars - and the streets probably cant handle them. I hope the predictions are right and the continued increase in petrol stimulates more alternative transport methods.

Part of the problem during peak season is that all the driving is to the parking lots that are all in the center of the activity - because they are vacant lots and being used for parking instead of more useful activity/development. I dont think you will be able to sell condos to middle and upper income families without some dedicated parking. Let me make it humorously clear - there should be no FREE PARKING (as stated by Tim Moerman <http://postcarboncities.net>). If you noticed on real busy days all those lots get filled with paying customers. Would they come if there wasnt any parking? We should start asking people - and perhaps perform some serious transport capacity studies - how many cars is really too many? Additionally - when more and more people arrive at Stillwell - how are they going to cross the congested surf avenue?

Other important factors are the demographics of visitors - many drive. Yes, the subway is a great way to get to/from Coney unless you live in NJ, Long Island, the Bronx, Queens, Staten Island, etc. Soccer moms, bikers, youth leagues...unfortunately the subway service is too slow for people who can afford gasoline and are traveling from further than Brooklyn or Manhattan. I cant stress the importance of express service to Stillwell enough - WE NEED IT!!!

We have to be realistic about travel - there are better options like more bus service and trolleys etc. We want to discourage driving as much as possible - but these services are not up to par yet. Bike lanes are nice - I find its distracting to drivers sometimes, but for many of us its only 1 mile or less to stillwell - an easy ride or walk when the weather is nice. Are there other tranport alternatives? Rickshaws? Mopeds? These gypsy cabs are sometimes dangerous. Yellow school buses now with stop-signs - what a great way to destroy traffic flow!

Please feel free to read the rest of my post - parking is one aspect of the plan and I think there are more important issues at stake. Im not sure I agree with your comment about building heights - there is such thing as too high. Its not the character of the area for all these high rises. They dont fit in context next to the beach and boardwalk. I would say 25 stories is plenty to accomodate various developments. Dont forget the footprints are potentially deep (except the city is planning on breaking them into smaller footprints and encouraging tall, dense buildings). Thats another good discussion to have actually.

[antinimby]

There should be some provisions for underground parking but not 4500. That is much too excessive.

The problem we have in this city is that we're never forward thinking enough. Those "concerns" you raised sound more like excuses to go back to the same old mindset of the driving culture.

For an example of where they are more progressive thinking and not hampered by the old mentality revolving around cars and driving and the fears that things wouldn't work without it, just look at London and how they go about planning the transportation needs for Wembley Stadium.

Keep in mind that stadium holds over 90,000 people. I doubt that many people will be coming from NJ, LI and Westchester to Coney Island all at once (if at all).




Unlike all American Football stadiums, Wembley has a grand total of 0 parking spaces. No fewer than 3 train stations serve the stadium to compensate for that, Wembley Park station is off in the distance.


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2189/1795519827_b01f223d0f_b.jpg


As for your other point, housing in this city is at a premium. I wouldn't worry about whether they would sell or not. If they are quality and there's a lot of retail and amenities in the neigbhorhood to serve the residents, it will sell.

[NewYorkDoc]

Having no parking spaces is great! I wish Yankee Stadium could have the same amount.

[ZippyTheChimp]

From mosesnbklyn's notes:
4500 new housing units; ie 4500 new carsThere's a difference between parking for visitors and commuters, and parking for residents.

The former is car use, the latter car ownership. There are other ways to discourage excessive car usage besides limited parking options, but denying the right to own a car is a tough sell.

And at some point down the road, parking can be eliminated. Much more difficult the other way around.

[mosesnbklyn]

There should be some provisions for underground parking...Keep in mind that stadium holds over 90,000 people. I doubt that many people will be coming from NJ, LI and Westchester to Coney Island all at once (if at all).

I like your arguments - it would be a great sell.

Some problems
-existing traffic is a nightmare (school buses)
-cant build underground in a flood zone w/o WTC style bathtub walls

If we are going to start planning for big crowds we might look at 90,000 fans coming from all angles....no? As part of the 365 (year-round activities) we might think of Coney as the future host of a Jazz Festival (Montreal anyone?)...now were talking crowds. We already have some stage locations and can build more.

I'm surprised the new plan doesnt show bustling cafes and restaurants on the boardwalk - that would be nice - plenty of options for hungry sports fans leaving the stadium (or late nite beachgoers).

Is it just me or does that picture look like a potential hazard / security nightmare? no wonder people die at those games...

[ASchwarz]

Its not the character of the area for all these high rises. They dont fit in context next to the beach and boardwalk.

Have you ever been to Coney Island? There are more highrises in Coney Island than anywhere else in Brooklyn (excepting downtown Brooklyn).

It would absolutely be appropriate to build large, tall, bulky towers. That's the current character of the neighborhood.

[yuriymen]

I live on Neptune Ave and West 8 Street, there is a huge project going on accross the street from my house by the train yard, workers seem to be draining a river and strenthening swamp land. This has been ongoing for several month now. Does anyone know what the city is planning to do there? I heard several things like they plan to park garbage trucks there but I have no concrete answer. If someone can let me know and maybe provide an article or something.

Thanks.

[BrooklynRider]

Some good news!

The City has hired Rockwell for the new Master Plan. Hooray!:)

[BrooklynRider]

Kruger Asks ‘How Much, How Long, Who Pays?’ For Coney Island, City Doesn’t Answer
by Sarah Ryley

The Coney Island Development Corporation, starting Monday, will be holding three public meetings regarding its redevelopment plan, and the agency’s newest worst enemy, Sen. Carl Kruger, plans to show up at the first one, angry posse in tow. Kruger, vowing to stop the plan By Any Means Necessary, effectively shut down the last meeting by busing in hundreds of people, many wearing hats emblazoned with the slogan, “Bloomberg’s Plan: How Much? How Long? Who Pays?”


This time, despite his questions going unanswered, Kruger said he’s going to focus on a costly and time-consuming state environmental impact study the city must conduct for the plan to move forward. “This plan is DOA — Dead On Arrival,” he said. “Not because we don’t want to see Coney Island developed. Far From it. We want to see Coney Island and Brighton Beach developed with a plan that makes sense.”

Central to the city’s plan is the creation of a 15-acre waterfront amusement park leased to a single operator, but retail magnate Joseph Sitt, president and CEO of Thor Equities, owns most of that land. Last November, Mayor Michael Bloomberg dropped the bombshell announcement that Sitt’s land would either be bought out or “swapped” with city parkland now used for parking during Brooklyn Cyclones games. Alienating city parkland requires state approval.

The Eagle attempted to get answers to Kruger’s original questions, some of which were addressed during the mayor’s original presentation, and will no doubt come up on Monday evening.

When asked how much public money would be spent on the amusement district if Sitt accepts the land swap or buyout deal, CIDC spokeswoman Janel Patterson responded, “This represents on-going negotiations. We do not discuss details of negotiations.” As for who would pay for the project, she said that couldn’t be answered for the same reason.

“I guess that’s a good way of not answering the question,” scoffed Kruger, adding that he had recently spoken to an official from Thor Equities and was told the company is not in negotiations with the city.

A Thor Equities spokesman confirmed that the company is not in negations with the city.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg, at a recent event where he spoke about the city’s looming fiscal crisis, also couldn’t say how much public money would be spent on the plan. “I have no idea whatsoever. Ask the [Economic Development Corporation],” he said.

Thor Equities spent roughly $150 million acquiring businesses and property within the amusement district. Under the city’s plan, the company could still build high-rise hotels on the land it owns along Surf Avenue, so the cost of a buyout would depend on how much land the city purchases.

If Thor Equities accepted the land swap offer, the company would acquire the KeySpan Park parking lot and possibly other unused parkland within the direct vicinity. Previously, the city had talked about transferring the same parkland to another developer, Taconic Investment Partners, so that company could expand on its already massive adjacent project.

As for how long the process would take, Patterson referred to the Department of City Planning’s Web site, which has a description of the plan. According to the timeline, the city estimates its own land use review process would be completed by early next year and the state process of alienating parkland would take six months starting this month. Building the amusement park would take 10 to 20 years. But that timeline was posted during more optimistic times, before Kruger, for the first time, began weighing in on the Coney Island proposal days after its unveiling.

The state alienation process hasn’t started yet, and Kruger said at a recent press conference that the city hasn’t applied to conduct an environmental review on the state level. “They are not going to be able to fast track their proposal,” he said.

So, to answer Kruger’s questions, so far there is no answer.

Public information sessions are scheduled Monday, Jan. 7, 6:30 p.m. at Lincoln High School Auditorium, 2800 Ocean Parkway; Tuesday, Jan. 8, 3 p.m. at Coney Island Hospital Auditorium, 2601 Ocean Parkway; and Tuesday, Jan. 8, 7 p.m., at Lincoln High School Auditorium.
— Compiled by Sarah Ryley

© Brooklyn Daily Eagle 2007

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=17630

[BrooklynRider]

Firm tapped for Steeplechase Plaza

By Jotham Sederstrom
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Friday, January 4th 2008, 4:00 AM

A plan to create a plaza beneath Coney Island's Parachute Jump inched closer to reality Thursday as city officials named a design firm to redevelop the long dormant site.

Once designs are completed, Steeplechase Plaza could include a water park, open-air stage and restaurants in and around a glassy, multilevel pavilion, officials said.

The 2.2-acre site, which will eventually house the restored B&B Carousel, also could include an amusement ride and an observation deck for viewing Brooklyn Cyclones games.

"The idea is to do this in a new and innovative way while retaining a little of that grittiness and fun that everybody equates to the iconic Coney Island," said Timothy Delorm of EDAW, the design firm tapped to reinvent the long vacant patch of grass near the Boardwalk.

The project was first announced in 2004 as part of a design competition that drew 864 designs from across the world.

It is expected to be included in the first phase of construction projects planned for Coney Island.

© Copyright 2007 NYDailyNews.com

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/01/04/2008-01-04_firm_tapped_for_steeplechase_plaza.html

[BrooklynRider]

Kruger booed at Coney hearing

By Dana Rubinstein
The Brooklyn Paper

The principal opponent of the city’s plan to revitalize Coney Island was booed down at a public meeting on Monday night, prompting city officials to cut off the blustery politician mid-speech.

State Sen. Carl Kruger (D–Brighton Beach) was the first in a parade of Brooklynites to come to the mic at a boisterous “public information session” at Lincoln HS, but he was the only one shouted down by the crowd.

Kruger later told The Brooklyn Paper that his opposition to the plan was based upon its unfeasibility.

“It’s like so many concepts that the Bloomberg administration has put forward,” said Kruger. “Why are we going through all of these gyrations of advancing a plan, getting people’s hopes and aspirations up, creating a firestorm of controversy, instead of just advancing a simpler solution?”

The majority of the dozens of speakers did not share Kruger’s contention that Mayor Bloomberg’s plan for the People’s Playground represented “a crime committed on our community.”

Rather, they expressed a tepid hope that the city’s plan represents the best chance for the long-suffering amusement area to finally get back on track.

“I’ve lived in the area for eight years, and I do want to see this go through,” said Noah Campbell. “For my kids and their kids, to have something wonderful like this in the community would be great.”

Amos Wengler, the unofficial poet laureate of Coney Island, used his allotted three minutes to sing a song called, “Save Coney Island.”

The two-and-a-half hour meeting began with a more detailed explanation of the city’s vision, which was first unveiled to the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce in November.

“This is not your suburban Disney park, and we want to keep it that way,” promised Purnima Kapur, the Department of City Planning’s Brooklyn director.

The centerpiece of the plan calls for turning the faded amusement district between West Eighth Street and Stillwell Avenue — most of which is owned by private developer Joe Sitt — into a 15-acre public park, surrounded by hotels, retail and more amusements.

The city would have to buy out Sitt — who spent more than $100 million to acquire the land — in order to make that happen.

The plan also calls for rezoning the area bounded by West 20th Street and Mermaid, Surf and Stillwell avenues to allow for 1,800 new apartments and 100,000 square feet of retail space.

A third area, bounded by the Boardwalk, West 19th and West 24th streets and Surf Avenue, much of which is currently mapped as parkland, would be de-mapped to stimulate the private construction of 2,700 apartments and 360,000 square feet of retail space.

Kapur and Lynn Kelly, the president of the Coney Island Development Corporation, offered even more details of how the city’s plan would move forward:

• The city optimistically predicted that the state environmental review, the legislation required for the demapping of some parkland and the creation of new parks, and the uniform land use review process would be completed by early 2009.

• The city also said a request for proposals for an amusement operator to run the new amusement park would be issued by 2009.

• All work will be done by 2012.

• The city estimates that the project will create about 20,000 temporary construction jobs, and more than 3,000 permanent jobs.

• The city claims the plan will draw, over the next 10 years, more than $2.5 billion in private investment, and will generate about $6.5 billion in tax revenue for the city over 30 years.

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/2/31_02krugerbooed.html

[ablarc]

"The idea is to do this in a new and innovative way while retaining a little of that grittiness and fun that everybody equates to the iconic Coney Island," said Timothy Delorm of EDAW, the design firm tapped to reinvent the long vacant patch of grass near the Boardwalk.
Don't expect much from these guys. They're the ones who came up with what is universally agreed to be the dullest stretch of Boston's Greenway.

Anticipate all the inspiration of a dead fish.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Kruger booed at Coney hearing]

Tough getting booed on your own turf.

http://www.nyssenate27.com/districts/27/images_WMS/kruger04.jpg


I wonder if ipods will be allowed on the Boardwalk.

[brianac]

Coney Island area near Nathan's could be rezoned for towers

BY JOTHAM SEDERSTROM
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Monday, February 4th 2008, 4:00 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/04/amd_nathans.jpg Handschuh/News
Nathan's Famous at Coney Island

A little-known section of Coney Island's redevelopment plans could turn legendary hot dog haven Nathan's Famous into a towering wiener wonderland with clubs, stores and hotel rooms.

Buried deep in the plans is a provision that says of the 50 blocks being rezoned in Coney Island, only the block that contains Nathan's - at the corner of Surf and Stillwell Aves. - and one block immediately west would be rezoned for towers.

That means the two-story building, which has drawn millions of hot dog lovers since 1916, could expand to 14 stories - or more - when detailed plans are approved next year.

"Nathan's would be given more opportunities for development on its property, which could lead to any one of a number of scenarios, including the expansion of Nathan's or its redevelopment as a new building," City Planning spokeswoman Rachaele Raynoff confirmed.

She said a new tower could house "entertainment-related, retail, amusement or hotel use."

People familiar with the redevelopment plans says Nathan's could bulldoze the building and erect a tower that would keep the wiener emporium at street level, leave the iconic store as is or put up a new place elsewhere in the neighborhood.

In any event, it would substantially alter the skyline and change the corner's character.

Nathan's President Wayne Norbitz insisted the hot dog house wasn't leaving, but he said the company has not developed any potential expansion plans.

"At the current time, we have our flagship store there and we really have no plans to make any changes, either by discontinuing or expanding," Norbitz said. "We're waiting to see what happens with zoning."

Last November, Mayor Bloomberg unveiled plans that include a 15-acre, year-round amusement park, 4,500 new apartments and condos and blocks of glitzy new stores - turning down on its luck Surf Ave. into a grand concourse of shops and hotels.

Frankfurter fans dining there last week mostly approved of the development plans - as long as city officials keep their mitts off Nathan's, of course.

"It won't change the quality of the food," said Coney Island resident Brad Wagman, 48, who was noshing on fries. "I'm sure they'll keep as much of the nostalgic design as possible, but it's time for a change in Coney Island."

Michael Owen, a Long Island native visiting Coney Island with his wife, disagreed, saying that while he approved of development, Nathan's neon-lit building needed to stay.

"It's the original," said Owen, 39. "They should try to incorporate it into the modern theme."

Copyright 2008 The Daily News

[NewYorkDoc]

Nathan's should be kept as is.

[brianac]

I have only been there once, but I agree Nathans should remain.
It's the first thing you see when you get off the train at Stillwell Avenue.
It would be a pity to change that.

[brianac]

One more summer of busted boardwalk

BY AMANDA COLEMAN and ELIZABETH HAYS
daily news staff writers

Tuesday, March 11th 2008, 4:00 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/11/amd_coney-boardwalk-1.jpg Joyce for News
Walkers maneuver around holes and broken planks on Coney Island's boardwalk.

Talk about too little, too late.

City Hall has finally come up with a plan to fix the decaying Coney Island (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Coney+Island) Boardwalk — but work won't likely begin until after the busy summer season, and will only focus on two-and-a-half blocks in the main amusement area.
"By that time it will probably have collapsed," quipped Coney Island regular Dianna Carlin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Dianna+Carlin), who runs the kitschy beach shop Lola Staar (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Lola+Staar), and has seen visitors trip on the broken planks, gaping holes and protruding nails outside her store.

"It's horrific. We fix the boardwalk ourselves so people don't injure themselves," she added. "There's a huge hole outside my store that's been gated up for at least six months."

The city's new plan also calls for replacing a portion of the iconic wooden boardwalk with a mix of concrete and a synthetic material meant to look like wood.

Under the city's plan, workers will begin replacing the worst stretches of the aging boardwalk between W. 12th and W. 15th Sts. this fall.

But a recent Daily News review of the full boardwalk found broken boards, caved-in planks and exposed nails beyond the targeted zone — such as near Brighton First St.

"It's terrible," said Jacqueline Fenwick (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jacqueline+Fenwick), 86, of Brighton Beach (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brighton+Beach+(Brooklyn)). "Many times, I've fallen."

Community leaders signed off on the fake wood plan at a meeting last month — but regulars charge the city should have finished the work this spring to avoid a repeat of last summer's dilapidated, headline-grabbing conditions.

"A lot of places are broken; a lot of people have problems walking," said Margaret Schvartz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Margaret+Schvartz), 60. "Someone has to take care of it. Let's do it now."
Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-Manhattan) (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jerrold+Nadler) and three other local elected officials fired off a letter last week urging the city to move quickly to "repair the present boardwalk right away . . . to ensure that we do not have a repeat of 2007's deplorable and dangerous conditions."

Using imitation wood planks is part of a pilot program unveiled by Mayor Bloomberg (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Bloomberg) as a way to cut down on the city's use of non-renewable tropical hardwood, of which the boardwalk has been composed for many years.

A Parks Department spokesman said officials would like to do the repairs "as soon as possible," but decided they had to wait to avoid closing portions of the boardwalk at the busiest time.

"It's probably not going to start until after the season," said spokesman Phil Abramson (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Phil+Abramson).

In the meantime, Abramson said, workers will continue to make emergency patches.

He said city officials are working to come up with a plan to rehab the entire boardwalk, with a price tag put at $200 million.

ehays@nydailynews.com (ehays@nydailynews.com)

Copyright 2008 The New York Daily News.

[brianac]

Boardwalk lawsuits pile up as Coney Island icon deteriorates

BY ELIZABETH HAYS
daily news staff writer

Tuesday, March 11th 2008, 4:00 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/03/11/alg_coney-boardwalk.jpg Joyce for News
While replacing Coney Island's Boardwalk has been put off until fall, the icon continues to fall apart.

The aging Coney Island (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Coney+Island) Boardwalk isn't just an eyesore - it's dangerous and getting worse.

Last year, as the deplorable conditions on the iconic wooden beachfront path made headlines, the number of pricey lawsuits filed against the city spiked.

In 2007, 10 notices of claim were filed for injuries allegedly caused by the broken boards, gaping holes and exposed nails that have turned the boardwalk into a minefield.

Meanwhile, in 2006, just one such claim was filed - five in 2005 - according to data from the city Controller's office.

One claim has already been filed this year, by a Texas (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Texas) woman who said her leg went through the boardwalk when aging planks collapsed beneath her last November.

She is suing for $2 million.

"If they pay all the money to the injured people, they won't have the money for the boardwalk," said Sam Kalika (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Sam+Kalika), 70, a retired limo driver and Coney Island resident who filed a $1 million suit against the city last fall.

Kalika said he fractured his toes when he tripped on a broken plank near W. Fifth St. during an evening stroll last July.

"It was bad. There was a broken board," Kalika said. "The entire boardwalk needs a renovation."

Little Khalil Muhammad (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Khalil+Muhammad) was another boardwalk casualty last summer.

During an outing to Coney Island in August, Khalil, then 9, tripped on an uneven board near the Nathan's hot dog stand and broke his left ankle, his lawyer said.

"What happened to Khalil Muhammad could have been avoided if they had fixed the boardwalk when they first became aware of the problems," said lawyer Alex Nocerino (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Alex+Nocerino), who is suing the city for unspecified damages.

"And even today, they could prevent another Khalil Muhammad from happening if they fixed it now, instead of waiting until next fall."

ehays@nydailynews.com (ehays@nydailynews.com)

Copyright 2008 The New York Daily News.

[brianac]

Posted: Monday, 17 March 2008 7:53AM

Coney Island Amusements Open for Last Season?

NEW YORK (AP) -- Astroland isn't history yet, and the Wonder Wheel is spinning once again.

The Coney Island amusement district is back for what many believe is its last season.

The amusement district opened early Sunday with its trademark sideshow, an organ rally and Cyclone roller coaster.

City plans to revitalize the beloved but slightly seedy amusement district may be delayed by a year or more for a required environmental review.

In the meantime, the fun goes on.

Joining the amusements this year is Lola Staar's Dreamland Roller Rink on the Boardwalk. It is scheduled to open March 22.

Copyright 2008 1010 wins.

[brianac]

For Troubled Coney Plan, City May Need to Backpedal

byEliot Brown (http://www.observer.com/2007/author/eliot-brown)
March 20, 2008

http://observer.cast.advomatic.com/files/imagecache/article/files/cyclone.jpg

The Bloomberg administration’s plans to revitalize and reinvent Coney Island (http://www.observer.com/2007/bloomberg-wants-joe-sitts-land) have been through a noticeable evolution. A year ago, the city wanted to partner with the private landowners in the amusement district at Coney to give the historic hub a makeover, establishing the neighborhood as a regional destination.

Then the city determined that the private landowners—one in particular, Joe Sitt of Thor Equities—were not the perfect partners they had imagined. In November, the mayor announced a plan that would put the city in the captain’s seat by taking control of the entire amusement zone, buying out or trading property with the owners.

Then last night, at a forum at the Museum of the City of New York, a city official acknowledged there were talks going on to reach some sort of agreement where the city would realize a remade amusement district in conjunction with the private landowners, which would represent a reverse from the November announcement. The official, Coney Island Development Corporation (http://www.thecidc.org/index.html) president Lynn Kelly, said she could not expand much beyond that, but did say of the plan that “the different landowners could partake in all of this.”

Why the shift since November?

As often with development fights, local politics reign supreme.

Some key colorful local elected officials greeted the city’s plans with some displeasure, with State Senator Carl Kruger vowing to block (http://www.observer.com/2007/brooklyn-senator-kruger-steps-quest-halt-city-s-coney-plans) a crucial measure that moves around parkland designation. Mr. Kruger became an immediate outspoken opponent after the plan was unveiled, though he did not say much about it while it was being crafted in a relatively public manner.
Then there is Councilman Domenic Recchia (http://council.nyc.gov/d47/html/members/home.shtml). Also at the forum last night, Mr. Recchia believes a city-led rezoning is the right answer, but does not want to see the city force out the existing landowners, particularly Mr. Sitt, whom Mr. Recchia called a good friend.

Mr. Recchia made clear last night that he was unmoving in his opposition to a large city-owned amusement district (the city would turn it into parkland and lease it to an amusement operator), saying the proposal was unfair to the owners and it would not work financially.

“By making it parkland it only really adds value to one party and that’s the city,” he said.

To complete its plans, the city would need the support of the City Council, which often defers to the local council member.

Copyright 2008 The New York Observer.

[mosesnbklyn]

Personally I liked the concept of the city taking ownership/management - it would vastly improve the local conditions of the amusement area. Even if the city allows private developers to retain control, they may mandate strict management, such as BIDs provide (Business Improvement Districts) to other neighborhoods. The city does not have a good track record of maintaining low-income neighborhoods, but there already is a sanitation/cleaning contract out there - a good start. Private developers may not be so squeeky clean - but they will be under such public scrutiny that lawmakers will be well-informed. Lets hope these developers dont have all of city-council in their pockets!

[brianac]

Coney Island

300,000 Gallons of ‘Jaws’

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/23/nyregion/aqua600.jpg Béatrice de Géa for The New York Times
On the horizon for the New York Aquarium, more sharks and a new home for them.

By ALEX MINDLIN
Published: March 23, 2008

THE New York Aquarium is a notoriously unwelcoming structure: a walled seaside compound with no sea view and a parking lot for an entrance.

All that seemed about to change in October 2006, when the city announced three finalists in a design competition to reshape the aquarium’s exterior.

“The aquarium can be iconic,” Joshua Sirefman, then interim president of the city’s Economic Development Corporation, said at the time. “We want to change it into a 21st-century institution.”

Early last year, the city chose a winning design: an airy, whalelike shell, spangled with thousands of pinpoint lights, that seemed to engulf the aquarium.

But last week, city officials said the whale design was essentially dead. “We are not proceeding on that concept,” said Madelyn Wils, the agency’s executive vice president for planning and development. Instead, she said, the city will contribute about $50 million for a new shark exhibit. Aquarium officials said their shark population would more than triple, to at least 40, and the exhibit would include an arching, 300,000-gallon tank that visitors could walk beneath. The aquarium, on Surf Avenue in Coney Island, is operated and partly financed by the Wildlife Conservation Society (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/w/wildlife_conservation_society/index.html?inline=nyt-org), a nonprofit group.

The earlier concept was scrapped, Ms. Wils said, because the city was concerned about both the cost of the whale design and its practicality.

“Once you built it, how would you make improvements inside of it?” she asked. “If you wanted to make a new exhibit, how would you do that, now that the space is covered?”

City officials also decided that the shark exhibit would attract more visitors than would a revamped exterior.

The strongest proponent of that view has been City Councilman Domenic Recchia Jr., whose district includes the aquarium and who is chairman of the Council’s Cultural Affairs Committee, which controls 30 percent of the aquarium’s financing. “The perimeter should not be going forward,” said Mr. Recchia, whose position on the aquarium was reported in The Brooklyn Eagle.

“We should build up the exhibits instead and put in this beautiful new shark tank.”

Said Ms. Wils: “Does the public want to look at a whale engulfing the aquarium? Maybe. But would more people enjoy the aquarium if there was a new shark exhibit? Probably.”

Copyright 2008 The New York Times.

[brianac]

Taxpayers shelling out $4M for Coney Island Parachute Jump

BY JOTHAM SEDERSTROM
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Friday, April 11th 2008, 4:00 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/04/11/amd_parachute.jpg Archphoto.com
Maybe they should rename it the Golden Parachute.

Taxpayers are shelling out a staggering $4 million for a redesign of the historic Coney Island (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Coney+Island) Parachute Jump - and that's even before construction begins.

The price tag at the 2.2-acre site - which would be spread among eight design firms, including lighting experts and water specialists - is triple the average cost for a typical city project, architects told the Daily News.

"It shouldn't cost the city $4 million to push the design envelope," said architect Benjamin Ellis (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Benjamin+Ellis), who is unaffiliated with the plan to spruce up the 262-foot Brooklyn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brooklyn) landmark.

"It seems like the [city] is hiring as many design specialists as is required to justify a $4 million design fee," he said. "What they've done here - hiring eight guys - it's pigs at the city's trough."

The design team made up of EDAW Inc. (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/EDAW+Inc.), the Rockwell Group (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Rockwell+Group), MRA International (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/MRA+International), ARUP, DMJM Harris (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/DMJM+Harris+Inc.), Jason Bruges Studio, WET Design and Li/Saltzman Architects was announced in January.

It includes landscape artists, preservation experts, water specialists, entertainment-based developers and a lighting designer to overhaul an earlier 2006 lighting scheme at the Parachute Jump that is expected to be scrapped.

When designs for the Steeplechase Plaza plan are complete, the site could include a water display, an open-air public space and restaurants in and around a glass pavilion.

The site, which will eventually house the restored B&B Carousell, could include an observation deck for viewing the ocean and Boardwalk when it is completed in 2010.

"A $4 million project may seem like a lot, but this is a critical piece to Coney Island's future," said Coney Island Development Corp. (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Coney+Island+Development+Corporation) President Lynn Kelly (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Lynn+Kelly), who insisted the project was highly specialized. "And why shouldn't we invest? It's about time we reinvest in Coney Island."

Architects say the $42 per square foot it will cost taxpayers is as much as triple what city design projects typically cost after competitive bidding.

Brooklyn architect Sanjive Vaidya didn't balk at the price tag, but suggested hiring New York (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York) firms rather than California (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/California) and London (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/London) firms might have lowered costs.

"These are all pretty huge companies, so I could see them eating up fees," said Vaidya, who noted that building so close to the ocean and expediting the design process to meet a 2010 deadline were also reasons for the cost.

"I think if they went local, they might have saved a little."

jsederstrom@nydailynews.com

Copyright 2008 The New York daily News.

[Derek2k3]

Reading anything on this forum has become so depressing. Residents of this city complain about everything. Bloomberg is our only visionary.

[brianac]

Parks Department on Coney Island Barricade: 'Preserving Access Wherever Possible'

byChris Shott (http://www.observer.com/node/36088) | April 11, 2008

http://observer.cast.advomatic.com/files/imagecache/article/files/Barricade.bmp
Coney Island merchants

Coney Island merchants sent out a terse press release Friday afternoon in response to "an ominous fence which is obstructing the entrances to an entire block of businesses on the boardwalk (http://www.observer.com/2008/breaking-coney-island-boardwalk-merchants-blocked-parks-department-barricade)."
The Parks Department, which erected the fence a day earlier, issued the following explanation via email to The Observer:
The Parks Department is currently doing maintenance work along the boardwalk including the area between West 12th Street and Stillwell Avenue to reinforce its support structures and repair decking material. The affected areas will be repaired or replaced, and fencing will be removed, prior to the start of the busy beach season. While we regret any inconvenience this may present to adjacent business owners, safer structures will be a benefit in the long run and, in the meantime, we are preserving access wherever possible.

Copyright 2008 The New York Observer.

[brianac]

City’s Coney Island Design Revised to Break Deadlock

By CHARLES V. BAGLI (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/charles_v_bagli/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: April 17, 2008

The Bloomberg administration has revised its redevelopment plan for the Coney Island waterfront in an effort to break a deadlock with some landowners and elected officials while still preserving the area’s historic amusement district, which includes the Wonder Wheel and the Cyclone roller coaster.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/04/17/nyregion/coneylarge.jpg

The proposal, which would turn the area into a year-round attraction, still calls for a lot of stores and as many as 5,000 apartments along Surf Avenue, but it would reduce to 9 acres from 15 a city-owned open-air amusement park north of the Boardwalk between KeySpan Park and the New York Aquarium.

The city would buy the land for a permanent amusement district from local property owners including Thor Equities and the Vourderis family, which owns Deno’s Amusement Park and the Wonder Wheel.

But in a departure from the original plan unveiled in November by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/michael_r_bloomberg/index.html?inline=nyt-per), those owners would be able to develop the remaining parts of their property themselves as long as they followed the city’s master plan, which must still undergo an environmental review and a land-use review.

The city’s plan for the area north of the amusement district calls for a series of buildings that could include a glass-enclosed water park, games and amusements, a bowling alley, restaurants and entertainment-oriented businesses like House of Blues, Dave & Busters, NikeTown and movie theaters. Finally, the new zoning would allow for hotel towers on the south side of Surf Avenue.

“This is a plan that will preserve the iconic nature of Coney Island and enhance the amusement district, while generating economic opportunities and jobs for local residents,” Deputy Mayor Robert C. Lieber said. “We’re trying to bling it up.”

The revised plan is the result of meetings with local property owners and others since November.

“I’m guardedly optimistic,” said Jesse Masyr, a real estate lawyer for Thor Equities, which has been at loggerheads with the Bloomberg administration.

“We have to look at the size of sites we have left and what we could build.”
As the largest landowner in the area, Thor was in a position to block the city’s redevelopment plan, and appeared willing to wait out the Bloomberg administration. Thor’s chairman, Joseph J. Sitt, has spent more than $120 million in recent years buying about 10 acres in the heart of Coney Island’s traditional amusement district and developing his own $1.5 billion proposal for the area.

Mr. Sitt proposed a glitzy amusement park, as well as stores, game rooms and condominium hotels. But the city and some urban planners opposed generic retailing and any housing near the Boardwalk, saying that it would inevitably crush a noisy, late-night amusement district.

In recent months, the two sides have been discussing a mutually acceptable compromise. Mr. Sitt’s recent counterproposal called for a smaller, 6.5-acre amusement area and far more stores and hotels — 2.9 million square feet — spread over 24 acres. The city’s revised plan allows for 1.9 million square feet.

Councilman Domenic M. Recchia Jr., a critic of the original plan who has supported Thor, said the city was headed in the right direction, as did Dennis Vourderis, of the family that owns the Wonder Wheel.

“We’re optimistic,” Mr. Vourderis said. “We’re hoping that they’re going to let us develop our own properties.”

The glory days of Coney Island’s amusement parks are long gone, and the area is speckled with empty lots and dingy buildings. But the old-fashioned rides, sword swallowers, go-carts, wide-open beaches and cool breezes still attract hundreds of thousands of visitors in the summer months.

The “stars may finally be realigning,” said Brooklyn’s borough president, Marty Markowitz (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/m/marty_markowitz/index.html?inline=nyt-per), a longtime advocate of revitalizing Coney Island.

“Coney Island was always a working-class playground,” he said. “We should preserve the amusements for future generations. I welcome a water park, movie theaters, a bowling alley and House of Blues. I do not want to see another generic shopping mall.”

The key issue for all sides is how to attract visitors to Coney Island in the winter, when the area is cold and windswept. Mr. Sitt had insisted on traditional retail space and housing to offset the cost of the amusements. But the redevelopment plan goes beyond the amusement district. There are plans for housing and retail businesses on the north side of Surf Avenue and west of the KeySpan ballpark.

In recent months, the Bloomberg administration has sought to redesign and refurbish the historic 271-foot-tall Coney Island Parachute Jump, which sits on 2.2 acres west of the amusement district. The centerpiece of the new plaza would be the restored Bishoff & Brienstein carousel, and could include a glass pavilion, an observation deck and restaurants.

Mr. Sitt is bringing the Reithoffer Shows traveling carnival to Coney Island from May 22 through June 1. The Astroland amusements, which Mr. Sitt bought and planned to close, will also reopen for one more season.

Both sides need a victory. Many of the city and state’s development plans have been battered by a slowing economy and the credit crisis, which has effectively ended lending for large-scale real estate projects.

So if Mr. Sitt fails to compromise on Coney Island, he risks alienating City Hall and jeopardizing two other projects he would like to build on the Brooklyn waterfront. He has proposed a $100 million shopping center at a former bus depot along Shore Parkway in Bensonhurst, where he lives. In Red Hook, Mr. Sitt bought the long dormant Revere sugar works, and would like to build a marina and luxury apartments there, next to the soon-to-open Ikea furniture store.

Copyright 2008 The New York Times.

[Floyd Bennett Field]

Floyd Bennett Field offers over 1,200 acres with controllable access for Six Flags Great Adventure and Hurricane Harbor sized amusement parks and resorts.

Too little amusement park land remains to support the historic crowds that once made their way to Coney Island.

Despite a 1953 zoning reprieve, Coney Island amusements were already dealt a death blow by Robert Moses: he had projects built upon and the New York Aquarium relocated to huge parcels of legendary amusement land.

Sure, amusements can still work in Coney Island, but not on a scale equal to that which they did over the past 40 years.

The Nickel Empire and Steeplechase Park era's are gone forever. Unfortunately, the Astroland and Deno's Wonder Wheel Park era's will soon be gone forever too.

Instead of trying to undo what Robert Moses did, why don't you focus on doing it bigger and better at Floyd Bennett Field?

[ablarc]

Instead of trying to undo what Robert Moses did, why don't you focus on doing it bigger and better at Floyd Bennett Field?
Hmmm...

But how's the subway access?

[BPC]

Nonexistent. But the architecture is beautiful Art Deco. It would be good to see those structures put to some sort of more productive use.

[BrooklynRider]

An amusement park shouldn't be built adjacent to a wild life preserve.

Coney Island is a name brand with international recognition. This city is completely without vision and leadership on this issue.

[ZippyTheChimp]

There are plans being developed to transform Floyd Bennett field and the rest of GNRA into a recreational area more appropriate than a Six Flags.

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=168459

[brianac]

Coney Island Mayor on Latest Bloomberg Plan: It 'Sucks'

by Eliot Brown (http://origin.observer.com/2007/author/eliot-brown) | May 1, 2008

http://origin.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/dickzigun.jpg gilly youner via flickr
Dick Zigun

The Bloomberg administration is getting squeezed from all sides with its Coney Island plan, as its most recent proposal is taking fire from both advocates of the historic amusement hub and the area’s major landholder, Joseph Sitt.

Key advocates who once rallied behind the Bloomberg administration are now coming out strongly against the city’s proposal, expressing dismay that it would further shrink down the amusement district, putting retail and some hotels where city-owned land for amusements was once planned.

“The new plan sucks,” said Dick Zigun (http://www.coneyisland.com/per.dick.shtml), the director of the nonprofit Coney Island USA (http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=news) who is often called the unofficial mayor of Coney Island. “They initially came together and came up with a plan that everybody got on board for … This is so watered down it is unacceptable.”

The criticism of Mr. Zigun, who joins boardwalk boutique store owner Dianna Carlin in his opposition, comes on top of Mr. Sitt’s dissatisfaction with the plan, at least as currently presented. The city wants Mr. Sitt’s land to have a large “entertainment retail” component for shops such as Hard Rock Café and movie theaters, though Mr. Sitt’s attorney told us earlier this week (http://origin.observer.com/2008/coney-island-conflict-cont) that an element of standard retail is needed in order for the plan to be economically viable.

Mr. Zigun is a board member of the Coney Island Development Corporation (http://www.thecidc.org/), a group founded by the city’s Economic Development Corporation and other stakeholders as a means to come up with a community-crafted strategic plan for the area.

“After my private briefing with EDC I offered to resign from the CIDC, making it very clear that I cannot support a compromise of a compromise of a compromise, and was told that I am entitled to remain an opposition member on the board, so I have not resigned,” he said. Mr. Zigun also promised “a lot of noise” this summer in opposition.

The city’s next course of action depends in large part on Councilman Domenic Recchia (http://www.observer.com/2008/domenic-recchia-takes-city-ride-coney), the local legislator who has thus far sided with Mr. Sitt, and whose refusal to support the Bloomberg administration’s earlier plan led the city to come up with the alternative plan.

Any land-use change would require approval from the City Council, which is expected to defer to Mr. Recchia, a Democrat running for Congress in a traditionally Republican district that encompasses Staten Island and parts of Brooklyn.

http://origin.observer.com/2008/coney-island-mayor-says-latest-city-plan-sucks

© 2008 Observer Media Group

[antinimby]

I'm in agreement with Dick Zigun. You can't shrink the one thing that makes Coney Island special and not just another beach with a boardwalk: the amusement area.

It's already pretty limited in area as it is. If anything they should expand it, not shrink it.

No need to give into this Joseph Sitt creep. He is a dime-a-dozen developer that will come and go but there is only one Coney Island.

[antinimby]

From the brownstoner today (http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/2008/05/funding_secured.php)...


May 12, 2008

Funding Secured for $36M Coney Amphitheater

http://www.brownstoner.com/brownstoner/archives/coney-amphitheater-05-2008.jpg

Move over, Jones Beach! City funding to the tune of $36 million has been secured for a 10-acre makeover of Coney Island's Asser Levy Park that will result in the construction of a "world-class" amphitheater, according to Sheepshead Bay News. The development will run between Sea Breeze Avenue to the north, Surf Avenue to the south and West 5th Street to the west. The formal review process for the project is supposed to start sometime this year, and officials are looking to break ground by August 2009 and possibly be finished with it by summer 2011. English architecture firm Grimshaw, which designed the new Cemusa bus shelters, will be the architect for the amphitheater.

[brianac]

May 22, 2008

City Wants Control of Coney Island Wonder Wheel


http://gothamist.com/attachments/nyc_arts_john/052208wonderwheel.jpg
Above Wonder Wheel photo courtesy NYCviaRachel (http://flickr.com/photos/nycviarachel/1555325123/)

As part of a plan to turn over 9 privately-owned acres (http://gothamist.com/2008/05/07/shrinking_coney.php) of Coney Island amusements to the Parks Department, the Bloomberg administration is trying to wrest control of the landmark Wonder Wheel from the family that has owned and operated it since before Coney Island’s comeback. According to amNY (http://www.amny.com/news/local/am-wheel0522,0,5902671.story), it was in 1948 that Coney Island hot dog vendor Denos Vourderis promised his girlfriend that if she married him, he would buy her the Wonder Wheel; 35 years later he’d saved up enough money to make it happen.

http://gothamist.com/attachments/jen/2008_05_wondwheel.jpg

Vourderis passed away in 1994, leaving his sons to manage the refurbished Wonder Wheel and a number of other rides that make up Deno's Wonder Wheel Amusement Park (http://www.wonderwheel.com/). Bloomberg’s plan would give the Vourderis family one acre in the new amusement area, while turning operations of the Wonder Wheel and tDenos Kiddie Park over to a “world class operator” who would find a way to maintain rides year-round.

Though the Vourderises would receive “fair market value” for the property, but Denos’s son Dennis is not amused, telling amNY (http://www.amny.com/news/local/am-wheel0522,0,5902671.story), “It's important to keep his dream going. This is something that grew from being a little hot dog stand into an empire. They don't need to protect it from us. We made it a landmark.” But Coney Island Development Corp (http://www.thecidc.org/). president Lynn Kelly argues “if we don't change the zoning now and make the surrounding area parkland, in a few years someone could say, ‘I want to put a giant high-rise building right next to the Wonder Wheel.’”

Coney Island officially opens for the summer this weekend; if you ride the Wonder Wheel, choose the sliding car; it's well worth the wait.

By John Del Signore (http://gothamist.com/staff.php#nyc_arts_john)

http://gothamist.com/2008/05/22/city_seeks_cont.php

2003-2008 Gothamist LLC (http://www.gothamistllc.com/).

[brianac]

Jeers Drown Out Cheers at Coney Island Beach Party

by Chris Shott (http://www.observer.com/node/36088) | May 22, 2008

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/Wreckia.JPG
Chris Shott
Protesters to Politician: You suck!

"How about making some noise for opening the beach?" Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe said from the podium, as brightly dressed protesters standing behind a police line chanted, "Thor no more! Thor no more!"

So began another politically charged season at Coney Island (http://www.observer.com/2007/coney-island-worth-saving) under appropriately gloomy skies on Thursday morning.
"I was so glad to see the folks from Save Coney Island (http://www.myspace.com/saveconeyisland) come out to support me," joked local Councilman Domenic Recchia, an ally of much-maligned Thor Equities developer Joe Sitt (http://origin.observermediagroup.com/2008/domenic-recchia-takes-city-ride-coney) and, thus, the recipient of some loud boos and shouts of "You suck!" from the placard-wielding demonstrators.

Mr. Recchia has taken some heat lately for his role in brokering a controversial compromise between the developer and the city (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/17/nyregion/17coney.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion&oref=login) on plans to revamp and rezone the ancient seaside amusement district.
amNY reported Thursday that, under the new deal, the city would sacrifice the iconic Deno’s Wonder Wheel (http://www.amny.com/news/local/am-wheel0522,0,5902671.story), an otherwise protected city landmark, in exchange for turning nine acres of the carnival area into parkland. The city originally envisioned a 15-acre park.

“SIZE DOES MATTER,” read one protester’s sign. “Don’t SHRINK the AMUSEMENT District.”

The developer Mr. Sitt, Mayor Michael Bloomberg, and Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz were all no-shows.

Protesters included merchant-activist Dianna Carlin (http://www.observer.com/http://www2.observer.com/2008/accidental-queen-coney-island), Brooklyn burlesque queen Angie Pontani, Coney Island USA founder Dick Zigun, historian Charlie Denson, and, of course, the Reverend Billy of the Church of Stop Shopping (http://www.revbilly.com/).

“We are here representing the not necessarily completely commercialized part of Coney Island’s soul,” the reverend preached, “the creative, freaky part of each of us that needs to be built up at this time because we’re being hemmed in at all sides by the demon monoculture that’s trying to privatize our souls, and we say, 'Nooooooo! Carnival stalls! Not mega-malls!'”

http://www.observer.com/2008/councilmember-recchia-jeered-coney-island-beach-party

© 2008 Observer Media Group,

[brianac]

Coney Island 'mayor' resigns over redevelopment plan

By Jotham Sederstrom
Daily News Staff Writer
Wednesday, June 4th 2008, 4:00 AM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/06/04/alg_mayor.jpg Showalter for News
Dick Zigun, aka the mayor of Coney Island, says he'll resign from the Coney Island Development Corp. to protest a revised city development plan that includes a shopping mall.

The Mayor has submitted his resignation.

Dick Zigun, the so-called mayor of Coney Island plans to resign from the group charged with redeveloping the amusement mecca, the Daily News has learned.

Zigun said he would bow out of the 13-member Coney Island Development Corp. to protest a revised city development plan he charged could include a shopping mall near the center of the 47acre plan.

"This spring, without the CIDC ever having a discussion or ever taking a vote, the strategic plan that I had been a major cheerleader for was totally changed and compromised in a way that no amusement park lover could possibly be happy with," said Zigun, founder of Coney Island USA, which runs a world-famous sideshow.

In a blistering attack, Zigun said that the revised city plan would also mean a significantly smaller amusement park if passed by the City Council next year.

The shopping mall, which would usher in retailers such as a Toys "R" Us with its looming Ferris wheel or an FAO Schwarz with its giant floor keyboard, is a concession to developer Thor Equities, Zigun and other critics contend.

"The CIDC plan promised a world-class tourist attraction with an entertainment core - lots of rides complemented by year-round nightclubs and enclosed water parks," said Zigun in a letter to Mayor Bloomberg.

"Instead the core will now be rezoned for a shopping mall full of Niketowns, Toys 'R' Us and four 30-story hotels."

City officials unveiled ambitious plans in November for a 15-acre, year-round amusement park, 4,500 new apartments and condos and blocks of glitzy stores along Surf Ave.

But in a departure, the plan also called for only one amusement park operator for the entire amusement district, an idea that infuriated Thor Equities' developer Joe Sitt, who intended to operate his own amusement park at the site.

The rift forced city officials to revise the plan in April, which they did by allowing a reduction of parkland and by working more closely with Thor and other businesses.

CIDC President Lynn Kelly balked at Zigun's complaints, insisting the role of CIDC members was to create a development plan for the area, not vote on its merits - a job that will be left up to the City Council.

Kelly defended the revised zoning plan and a shopping mall, but said the use of so-called entertainment retail across 15 acres of Coney Island was still being debated.

"We're still writing the zoning text, but if there is going to be any type of entertainment retail, the driving force is the entertainment," said Kelly, who used as an example a rock climbing wall at a Niketown store or a Sony electronics store that provides video game demonstrations.

"It's really about the interactivity with the item," Kelly added. "We're carefully considering how you define entertainment retail because that's really key."

Fellow CIDC board member Sol Adler defended both the CIDC and the city's revised plan, but said he respected Zigun's position.

"The CIDC is doing just fine in an extraordinarily complex environment that is made more difficult because private developers have swooped down," Adler said, referring to Thor Equities' purchase in 2005 of property in the area.

"The city is trying to work with [Thor] and not do anything that is going to jeopardize the quality of that area, the gestalt of that area. You don't want to create an environment that would destroy the feel of Coney Island."

A spokesman for Thor declined to comment.

jsederstrom@nydailynews.com (jsederstrom@nydailynews.com)

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/06/04/2008-06-04_coney_island_mayor_resigns_over_redevelo.html

© Copyright 2008 NYDailyNews.com.

[brianac]

Big City

Visions for Coney Island Differ: Breathtaking Rides, or Shopping?

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/09/nyregion/09bigcity.xlarge1.jpg Ozier Muhammad/The New York Times
EMBRACING CHANGE Dick Zigun says he supports plans to redevelop Coney Island on a grand scale, but not if it means turning it into a mall. More Photos > (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/09/nyregion/20080609BIGCITY_index.html)

By SUSAN DOMINUS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/d/susan_dominus/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: June 9, 2008

Friday was a perfect beach day, warm and sunny but not as hot as the weekend to come, so proximity to water still felt like a luxury or a lark, not a health imperative. Maybe because it was a weekday, the stands and rides at Coney Island were mostly empty, but some of the barkers did not let that lull them into a torpor.
Multimedia

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/09/nyregion/20080609BIGCITY.190.jpgSlide Show (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/09/nyregion/20080609BIGCITY_index.html)Different Visions for Coney Island (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/09/nyregion/20080609BIGCITY_index.html)


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/09/nyregion/09bigcity.large4.jpg
Ozier Muhammad/The New York Times
OLD-TIMEY FEEL Relics from another era at Coney Island: top, the stairs at the Coney Island Museum list famous attractions; a wheel of chance game. More Photos » (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/06/09/nyregion/20080609BIGCITY_index.html)

“Young lady, I want to talk to you,” said a man with longish gray hair, sitting in front of a game involving a basket and a ball. “Young lady, do you have a minute? I want to explain something to you. Come on, give it a try. I guarantee you’ll get a prize just for trying.” When the woman waved and kept walking, he kept it up. “You don’t understand, I promise, you can’t lose!”

What city was this? What century? All that energy, that personally delivered, individually tailored salesmanship, all for the possibility of a $2 fee? It would have been a fun moment of street theater under any circumstances, but it also already felt, given its total lack of irony, given the inevitably of change to come, like a particularly vivid historical re-enactment, a scene from an urban, 20th-century equivalent of Colonial Williamsburg: Coney Island, back in the days before the great Bloomberg-led redevelopment of the early 21st century.

For the past 25 years, Dick Zigun, the founder and artistic director of Coney Island USA, an arts organization, has found a way to capitalize on that kind of small-scale seediness, the area’s overlay of dissolution and current decay, and to elevate it to an aesthetic defining the area’s art and entertainment. Back in the early ’80s, Mr. Zigun created the Coney Island Circus Sideshow (complete with fire-eaters and contortionists) and launched the annual Mermaid Parade, both events that are hipster must-sees as well as good old-fashioned entertainment for the irony-free.

Mr. Zigun, a major figure in the revitalization of the area and a frequent informal spokesman for the amusement industry’s various proprietors, was willing to see Coney Island’s particular grittiness, cherished by some, obliterated in the name of a major redevelopment plan announced by the city in 2003.

“People find the seediness charming, and I realized that in terms of the way capitalism works and real estate works, you can’t become enamored of the seediness,” he said.

“That’s not what Coney Island was in its heyday.”

Mr. Zigun was invoking the Coney Island of the early 20th century, when the amusement park sprawled across 70 acres, drawing both high-end and mass clientele to its spectacular state-of-the-art-rides and restaurants, its standing-room-only beach.

The possibilities of the city’s strategic plan for Coney Island seduced Mr. Zigun, who signed on and joined the board of the Coney Island Development Corporation. For the future he saw grandeur, spectacle, phantasms. He saw, specifically, 15 acres of open-air amusement park, a significant expansion over the current space, and, in that acreage, the possibility for the world’s greatest urban amusement park.

Last April, the city reduced the area dedicated to an open-air amusement park to nine acres. Last week, frustrated with the plan and its trajectory, Mr. Zigun resigned from the board.

The president of the corporation, Lynn Kelly, points out that 15 additional acres will still be zoned to allow for the possibility of amusements (including indoor venues that won’t lose their appeal in the winter, a major concern about the earlier plan), as well as what the city is calling “entertainment retail.” Mr. Zigun’s disappointment turns, in some part, on what he fears that will entail: a generic Coney Island inevitably overrun by stores like Niketown (which would be permitted, provided there’s a climbing wall) or F. A. O. Schwarz (with a large keyboard the public can play on), rather than world-class rides. Stores with strong entertainment value would be welcome in numbers that would eventually be defined, said Ms. Kelly, who also envisions bowling alleys, an Imax theater and indoor bumper cars.

“We have to create a balance to accommodate people’s tastes and a regional draw,” Ms. Kelly said.

Mr. Zigun and his team had hoped for a vast area where the commodity would be exclusively “an experience, rather than a product,” as Aaron Beebe, the director of Coney Island USA’s museum put it. The corporation seems to be taking into account the reality that for this generation, shopping has become both an experience and an entertainment, a cheap or expensive thrill that can compete with any vertiginous high-speed ride.

Of course, as the history of Coney Island proves, entertainment tastes change, and the familiar shopping experience at, say, Abercrombie & Fitch, might lose its luster for the next generation of young people as the economy continues to darken; but that same economy might also make it hard to come by millions of dollars for investment in open-air (or enclosed, for that matter) amusement park rides.

Mr. Zigun’s vision for Coney Island was imaginative and ambitious: Why not create the world’s largest indoor swimming pool, with wave action for surfing, or indoor skiing, like they have in Japan? The ideas would sound outlandish, except to those familiar with the scope of Coney Island’s offerings at the turn of the last century: theatrical re-creations of naval battles and tenement fires, scenic railways, a mechanical racetrack ride, a seemingly endless variety just as ambitious for its time.

When Mr. Zigun imagined the future of Coney Island, he said, “I saw a fantasy land.”

And that’s what it may very well remain.

E-mail: susan.dominus@nytimes.com

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/nyregion/09bigcity.html?ref=nyregion

Copyright 2008 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

[antinimby]

Coney Island (and surrounding area) from an airplane...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3262/2680995827_67ecfd8400_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3149/2680998579_95e4d71163_b.jpg
jwilly (http://flickr.com/photos/jwillys/2680998579/)

[NYC4Life]

Looks alot bigger from the air than street level.

[Triborough]

These shots taken last year should give a closer in look.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1122/1228617934_fdc415b5bf.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1228617934/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1222/1228624290_baa77a1592.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1228624290/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1097/1228637196_2a2087c317.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1228637196/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1024/1227700735_6099eb89e3.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1227700735/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1239/1228604898_29c7886552.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1228604898/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1216/1227693073_f7a78ff58a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1227693073/)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/1228547676_167ba53f0a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/1228547676/)

[unknown memory]

Coney Island really doesn't look that impressive even from the air. I've seen it from the ocean point of view already. The parachute drop sticking out like a thumb.

I don't want to see Coney Island turned into a park land and a shopping mall. (And of course, who wants more high rise buildings...?) I want to see Coney Island turn into Coney Island.

Increase the amusement area, yes. Improve the boardwalk and cut the tall grass, yes. Improve the rides, yes. Make sure the beach is clean daily. Leave the Cyclone and Wonder Wheel to its current owners as they know what they're doing. Coney would then look so much better without retail shopping and a park. >_> An entertainment related area, like a video game booth place or a climbing wall doesn't sound so bad. Maybe, a Coney Island museum should be set up too?

I suppose no one wants to learn from the Jersey shore. I mean, some ideas that are coming from the original plans almost reminds me of what they have in Tokyo. But then, these plans are being butchered horribly by either a mall or a park.

[ablarc]

What a sorry remnant.

[Stroika]

With all the hate for Coney Island, I'd like to provide the old area with some defense.

It is very easy to walk around the area and lament what a mess it's become. There are far, far too many empty lots/lots full of schoolbuses -- for which I believe we can thank Joe Sitt who is Sitt-ing on them while he waits for permission to build a strip mall. The boardwalk is crumbling in many places. And the opportunities -- for more rides, better refreshments, restaurants, clubs, boat/jet ski rental, and so on -- are both clear and sadly untaken.

But honestly, the area is a lot of fun. For all the missed potential, I can't think of any other part of New York that so embodies the idea of a melting pot that the country is supposed to be. Walking on the boardwalk you see Pakistani immigrants with women in scarves, Dominican families blasting music, Russians riding bikes, Chinese walking with their children, hipsters and artists with blue hair smirking to themselves ironically at "Shoot the Freak," Mexicans drinking Jarritos, and so on. In no other area do people of different backgrounds and ages mix so freely, openly or publicly.

My guess is that it is the area's accessibility -- its surplus of cheap rides, cheap drinks, a free beach, public bathhouses/toilets, and the (beautifully renovated) subway stop there -- that makes it so appealing to so many people. And the numbers and diversity of the people there make it a thrilling, lively place, despite all the missed opportunities. The mix of people and their enthusiasm for the water, sand and, yes, shitty rides (for some people they're actually a luxury) makes Coney Island feel like the LES of the 1920s -- a hopeful, if not necessarily "upmarket place," and that's not a bad thing.

So instead of decrying Coney Island -- a successfully vibrant place whose utterly American uniqueness would be slaughtered by building shopping malls, hotels and Gucci boutiques on the boardwalk -- decry the missed opportunities.

And the ones worth chewing out here are the Sitts and Thors that "sitt" on vacant land and parking lots, forcing their parcels to be fallow, undeveloped eyesores for years in the hope that they can one day use them to turn a lively, accessible Coney Island into SoHo By The Bay.

[Triborough]

I rather have a flawed Coney Island with a mish mash of various amusement parks and a bit of rundown character than some horrid shopping mall and an amusement park that you have to pay through the nose to get into.

[Stroika]

Besides Sitt & Co., the other "culprit" in not maximizing Coney Island's potential is the city's housing authority. A large proportion of the area abutting the water is wasted on housing projects.

As is the case with all housing projects across New York, these places represent a financial, social and moral failure that segregate the poor and essentially put the area off-limits for non-residents.

The Coney Island projects should be knocked down and developers allowed to build the hotels and condos they want to build on those plots, with the stipulation that they mix in low-income housing for those currently in the projects. Sitt and the others pressing to build condos over the current amusement areas would then be able to have their condo cake while the amusement area would remain/be expanded.

[spatulashack]

It's sad that Coney Island has become such a hole that the city thinks the only way to fix it is to hand it over to a greedy developer. I wish there was a way to keep the flavor of the area while cleaning it up and yes, adding some new things. New Yorkers don't want malls, luxury high-rises and ridiculously overpriced shopping. They want Coney Island cleaned up, improved, and expanded. Now if it takes an overpriced mall and high-rise condos to make that happen, I think most people will be fine with it. The issue is making sure the developer does what he promises with the things that matter most. As of now, it seems like there will be a whole bunch of nothing going on in the foreseeable future.

[unknown memory]

With all the hate for Coney Island, I'd like to provide the old area with some defense.
Don't worry. No hate. ;) Just wish to see something good happening to Coney Island, but I can't help to feel sad about the place. I mean, the place has so much potential and rich history, but so much debate at the same time. >_<

[Triborough]

It's sad that Coney Island has become such a hole that the city thinks the only way to fix it is to hand it over to a greedy developer. I wish there was a way to keep the flavor of the area while cleaning it up and yes, adding some new things. New Yorkers don't want malls, luxury high-rises and ridiculously overpriced shopping. They want Coney Island cleaned up, improved, and expanded. Now if it takes an overpriced mall and high-rise condos to make that happen, I think most people will be fine with it. The issue is making sure the developer does what he promises with the things that matter most. As of now, it seems like there will be a whole bunch of nothing going on in the foreseeable future.

Actually, the greedy developers wield way too much power in the city. They come up with lies, ruses (like basketball teams), and estimates of increased city revenues to make it attractive to politicians.

[NYC4Life]

I was at Coney Island yesterday and it felt so dirty, rundown, boring, empty, it really needs an overhaul.

[Triborough]

Part of the reason that Coney Island is so empty and run down begins with T, ends with R and has HO in the middle.

[NYC4Life]

Surf and Stillwell avenues 8/14/08.

http://a938.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/15/l_d1596c1346bed59821fd8ab8fb2b9e41.jpg

[Triborough]

Well the sidewalk shed on the old Shore Theater has been there for over a year now. It is owned by the Kansas Fried Chicken mogul.

[brianac]

Coney Island Journal

Roller Skaters Revel in a New Rink in the City

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/18/nyregion/18roller1.600.jpg Joshua Lott for The New York Times
Lola Staar’s Dreamland is in the landmark Childs Restaurant building in Coney Island.

By CARA BUCKLEY (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/cara_buckley/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: August 17, 2008

The skies over Coney Island put on a spectacular show on Saturday evening, with the sunset casting violet hues and a fat yellow moon disappearing and reappearing through clouds.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/08/18/nyregion/18roller0.650.jpgJoshua Lott for The New York Times
Roller skaters at Dreamland’s “Purple Rain” theme party. Skaters were bereft when the Roxy and Empire rinks closed in 2007.

But for a row of spectators lined up along a lonely section of the Boardwalk, the real entertainment was happening opposite the beach, inside an ornate yet decrepit building. There, under disco lights and mirror balls, and displaying varying degrees of agility, roller skaters were circling, circling around a makeshift rink that offered a taste of the glory years of indoor roller-skating in New York City.

“Skaters have been so horribly sad, being orphans,” said Beth Emerson, who was one of the original roller-skate dancers at the Roxy, the beloved nightclub in Manhattan and one of two popular roller rinks to close in the city in 2007. “Now, we’re not going to be orphans anymore.”

The site of Saturday night’s roller-skating was Lola Staar’s Dreamland, the brainchild of Dianna Carlin, an entrepreneur who runs a tiny and bustling souvenir shop on Coney Island’s Boardwalk. Lola Staar is Ms. Carlin’s alter ego, and this year Ms. Carlin’s dream came true when she won a contest sponsored by Glamour magazine and the designer Tommy Hilfiger (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/tommy_hilfiger/index.html?inline=nyt-per) that helped her open a roller rink in Coney Island. Ms. Carlin is also the founder of the Save Coney Island organization, formed to stave off overdevelopment, and she wants to help breathe new life into a blighted area of the Boardwalk. Roller-skating, she believed, would be the ideal fix.

The rink opened in March in the Childs Restaurant building, an 80-plus-year-old terra-cotta landmark that has spent much of the past half-century closed to the public. A floor of interlocking plastic tiles was laid and about 200 pairs of roller skates were donated, Ms. Carlin says, by “a family whose grandfather was active in the roller-skating world.”

The plan, at first, was to open the rink for just one night, but the response from the public, and the city’s legions of bereft roller skaters, was so overwhelming that Ms. Carlin resolved to reopen the place on a semi-permanent basis.

“It was amazing,” Ms. Carlin said of the rink’s inaugural night, which drew luminaries like the singer Ashanti (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/a/ashanti/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and the actress Marisa Tomei (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/t/marisa_tomei/index.html?inline=nyt-per). “Over 1,000 people RSVP’d for the party, but we could only allow 300 people in. It showed how passionate people are for roller-skating.”

It took nearly four months for Ms. Carlin to navigate a thicket of building permits and insurance needs to reopen the rink, but finally, in July, she did. The rink is scheduled to open every weekend until October, at least.

Longtime roller skaters who showed up at Dreamland on Saturday night said they had yet to find a new home since the Roxy and the Empire roller-skating rink in Crown Heights, Brooklyn, closed within a month of each other last year (a third rink, Skate Key in the Bronx, closed in 2006).

Some make their way to rinks in New Jersey and on Long Island and Staten Island. Some skate on the weekends in Central Park, though several said they avoided outdoor skating because they did not like rolling on asphalt.

Yet no rink, the skaters said, has filled the void left by the Roxy and Empire.

“Empire was the love of our life,” said Yvonne Blugh, who showed up at Dreamland shortly past sunset on Saturday with her husband, Ian — the two met and fell in love at Empire. The night’s theme at Dreamland was “Purple Rain,” the 1984 movie starring Prince, and the Blughs dressed accordingly: she in a shiny black leather minidress and fishnet stockings, and he in a purple velour pantsuit with leopard-print flares.

Alex Kirby, a 63-year-old who wears 38-year-old custom-made roller skates, drives on most weekends to rinks in New Jersey. But Mr. Kirby, who polished his roller-dancing technique over decades at the Roxy and other rinks in the city, finds the New Jersey skaters too fast.

Irving Rollins, 52, who lives in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, said he had not been able to find a rink that equaled the Roxy’s all-inclusive vibe.

“People from all over the world, upper-end people, lower-end people, there was no place like Roxy’s,” he said.

And Angela Pinder, who showed up at Dreamland with her friend Lecia Williams, finds the New Jersey rinks too far away, the Long Island skaters standoffish and the Staten Island rink too hard to find.

“We need something in New York,” said Ms. Pinder, who used to skate at Empire. “Urban children have nowhere to skate.”

It remains to be seen whether Lola Staar’s Dreamland will fill the void.

Attendance has been erratic, possibly because people are unaware that the rink is there. Ms. Carlin is hoping to build enough momentum to open a permanent rink in Coney Island after Taconic Investment Properties, which holds the lease on the Childs Restaurant space, reoccupies the building. She also envisions finding a sponsor and laying a wooden floor in the rink.

The place might see some competition from a new rink being planned by Lezly Ziering, a 75-year-old roller-skating teacher who plans to start a skating night called “Crazy Legs” in September at an old gym in Bedford-Stuyvesant. But Mr. Ziering, who showed up at Dreamland on Saturday, said his skating nights would be on Wednesdays, and Ms. Carlin’s rink is open only on weekends.

Indeed, Julio Estien, who was the D.J. at the Roxy, was spinning at Dreamland on Saturday night, and suggested that there was enough demand to fill both venues.

“They’re still broken-hearted,” Mr. Estien said of the city’s skaters. “But now they have Lola Staar’s Dreamland.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/nyregion/18roller.html?ref=nyregion

Copyright 2008 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

[brianac]

Be 'Very, Very Scared' of Coney Island Without Rezoning, City Warns

by Eliot Brown (http://www.observer.com/2007/author/eliot-brown) | September 18, 2008

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/Shott-ConeyIslandSadElmo1H_2.jpgChris Shott.
Coney Island two Labor Days ago.

Back in the late spring, the city added a few new slides to its Coney Island redevelopment plan PowerPoint (http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/coney_island/presentation_06_2008.shtml), presumably to assuage critics, that showed successively how the core amusement area has shrunk decade after decade to become just a pitiful shadow of what it once was. With the city's planned rezoning, the pitch went, Coney could come closer to its heyday and be large and lively by historic standards.

Now with Astroland apparently headed to amusement park heaven (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09042008/news/regionalnews/astroland_is_closing_for_good_on_sunday_127490.htm ), the city added a new slide.

"Coney Island: 2009?" the slide read, showing an overhead view with active amusements highlighted in orange, and a big swath missing where Astroland is today.

With this month's news that Astroland owner Carol Hill Albert has proclaimed the signature Coney Island amusement park closed forever after she couldn't secure a lease with landlord Joe Sitt, the Bloomberg administration seems to be that much more intent--or desperate, perhaps--on pushing forward with its rezoning for the area. The planning action, for which the city wants to secure Council approval in about a year, would take a large area zoned for amusements and make space for over 4,000 units of new housing, a retail center, hotels, and a central amusement district characterized by "entertainment retail," indoor and outdoor rides.

And what happens if there is no rezoning under the Bloomberg administration?

"We all should be scared--we all should be very, very scared," said Lynn Kelly (http://www.thecidc.org/About/PresidentsBio.html), president of the city-run Coney Island Development Corporation.

"If we don't get that rezoning done now, what will happen is there will be more vacant property," she said. "We won't have anything to talk about but whether we want to go shopping at Bed Bath and Beyond."

As Ms. Kelly and other officials have emphasized before, city officials seem terrified that a future administration might change their plans or not have the fortitude to hold firm against Mr. Sitt, and thus want to get the rezoning done themselves before the end of 2009.

The problem at Coney, from the city's vantage point, is a recalcitrant property owner who owns most everything in the central amusement area (including the Astroland site) and won't agree to a deal to sell his land and give up his vision of redeveloping Coney Island himself. (From the point of view of the landlord, Joe Sitt, the city is boxing him into a position where he is forced to sell much of his land, and develop potentially unviable uses on the rest of it.)

Key to the city's plan is its intention to designate as parkland a central 9-acre swath of property by the boardwalk, much of which is owned by Mr. Sitt. Thus far the landlord has rejected the city's offers of tens of millions for the property, and his attorney has said the city's proposed zoning for the rest of Mr. Sitt's land would likely be unviable and may be impossible to finance given its specificity.

Earlier this week, Deputy Mayor Bob Lieber told us (http://www.observer.com/2008/real-estate/bloomberg-agenda-endgame) he was very much prepared to move forward on the rezoning, with or without Mr. Sitt's cooperation. Without him, the city's plan would change some: the 9-acre strip of land by the boardwalk would be left with the current zoning, and would not be given the parkland designation that the city has said is so vital.

http://www.observer.com/2008/real-estate/be-very-very-scared-coney-island-without-rezoning-warns-city-0

© 2008 Observer Media Group

[brianac]

Municipal Art Society to Solve All of Coney’s Problems With Charrette

by Eliot Brown (http://www.observer.com/2007/author/eliot-brown)
October 24, 2008

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/bowery%20illustration1_1.JPG NYCEDC

In the works for years now, the city's planned redevelopment of Coney Island has never been short on input. A sampling of what we've seen in the last year: A self-proclaimed "bombshell" press conference (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.observer.com%2F2007%2Fbrookly n-senator-kruger-steps-quest-halt-city-s-coney-plans&ei=3NkBSeW-HaPmvQX3oMHWDQ&usg=AFQjCNFsuLSUQWL2ILDqfx6TNTUJBsFEyQ&sig2=9-0UDGFtUl9lIyncasouEw) by a dissatisfied state Senator, an environmental "scoping" hearing (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/06/scoping-meeting-vids-reverend-billy.html) with a stream of freaks, musicians, a hunger striker and the Reverend Billy; an info session that attracted busloads of protesters (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/46/30_46coneybaloney.html), many of whom were apparently unfamiliar (http://www.observer.com/2008/big-trouble-little-odessa) with the issue.

Now, the Municipal Art Society (http://mas.org/)is stepping deep into the muck, with plans on Monday to kick off its own charrette—a pow-wow of designers and amusement experts—as part of its larger recent focus on the Coney issue.

The initiative will "feature a global Web-based call for ideas, and a charrette (an intense design workshop) featuring international amusement and design experts from Tivoli Gardens in Denmark, Broadway theater in New York City, and former Disney executives," the group said in a release.

The civic group has previously been rather critical of the city's plan, saying the proposed amusement zone of nine acres is rather small (here's the detailed, 17-page testimony (http://mas.org/images/media/original/ConeyScopingCommentsFinal%20(2).pdf)).

"We are not aware of any other amusement areas of a comparable scale that come close to achieving the number of visitors that is the market for a revitalized Coney Island or even Coney Island today," the group said in testimony this summer.

Results are due back Nov. 17. Release below.

MAS GATHERS TOP WORLD DESIGNERS TO
DEVELOP NEW IDEAS FOR VISION FOR CONEY ISLAND

Effort Seeks to Identify Designs, Uses & Events
for Long Term and Interim Development Period

The Municipal Art Society, working with a team of world-class architects, amusement designers and economists, will launch an initiative to develop new ideas for the design and programming of Coney Island this Monday, October 27 2008.

Titled "Imagine Coney," the new initiative will feature a global Web-based call for ideas, and a charrette (an intense design workshop) featuring international amusement and design experts from Tivoli Gardens in Denmark, Broadway theater in New York City, and former Disney executives.

MAS hopes that by leveraging global ideas and creativity it can help identify the novel uses that will spark new life in Coney Island and build on the remarkable strides Mayor Bloomberg has made toward a revitalized Coney Island. The charrette team will draw from creative and entrepreneurial ideas submitted during public workshops and on a Web-based call for ideas that will be open to all.

The team will participate in a briefing session on Coney Island on Monday, October 27 from 9 am - 12 pm with Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz, the Coney Island Development Corporation, the Department of City Planning, Coney Island USA, the Astella Development Corporation, the New York Aquarium, Creative Time, and other groups and local stakeholders. The team will return on November 13 and 14 for the charrette, and the results will be publicly presented on November 17.


http://www.observer.com/2008/real-estate/municipal-art-society-solve-all-coney-s-problems-charrette

© 2008 Observer Media Group

[BrooklynRider]

The New York Aquarium should really be excluded from this initiatives. They have been incredibly uncreative in developing a long range capital or redesign plan. The Aquarium is antiquated and a highly unpleasant relic of the distant past.

[Stroika]

Ditto ^^ The aquarium is one of the worst aquariums I've ever been to in a major city. Even the New England Aquarium in Boston, which has been outdated for 25 years and has been roundly criticized by many in the city for years for becoming so out of date, is leagues ahead.

[mosesnbklyn]

Municipal Art Society to Solve All of Coney’s Problems With Charrette
http://www.observer.com/2008/real-estate/municipal-art-society-solve-all-coney-s-problems-charrette




I like the concept of a group commenting and working with the CIDC, but is the MAS credible and experienced in development? I would have liked PICCED/PRATT to get involved here...MAS has a 17 page position paper with nice concepts and statements but no real meat - but let me finish - I only ready 50%. Another important item not mentioned, is any public group going to take part in the charette? you know like actual residents and stakeholders?

[NYC4Life]

Gowanus Lounge

Sitt & Thor Literally Trashing Coney Island

November 12th, 2008 · 1 Comment (http://www.gowanuslounge.com/2008/11/12/sitt-thor-literally-trashing-coney-island/#comments)

http://www.gowanuslounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sitt-trashing-coney.jpg (http://www.gowanuslounge.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/sitt-trashing-coney.jpg)
These are photos of Thor Equities property in Coney Island posted to the Coney Island Message Board by Captain Nemo (http://www.coneyisland.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1226376245). Our friends at Kinetic Carnival also had a post about it yesterday (http://kineticcarnival.blogspot.com/2008/11/thor-cant-seem-to-clean-up-its-stinky.html). We’re not suggesting that developer Joe Sitt is dumping garbage on his property, only that it is so poorly secured and maintained that it makes a convenient spot for illegal dumping. It’s among the many reasons that so many people are so nervous about the firm having a prominent role in Coney redevelopment. Kinetic wondered if this is what an empty Astroland lot would look like next year. It underscores the point that the city needs to act fast to develop an interim plan to keep Coney Island intact between rezoning and the point at which the economy recovers to allow any significant redevelopment–which could turn out to be many, many years from now. Thor demolished the rides on this property two years ago.

[NYC4Life]

Updated On 11/12/08 at 04:21PM
Thinkers offer ideas for Coney Island

http://s3.amazonaws.com/trd_three/images/37268/coney_articlebox.jpg (http://ny.therealdeal.com/assets/37268)
Coney Island



The Center for an Urban Future issued a report yesterday with opinions from architects, urban planners, historians and writers on the future of Coney Island. Jonathan Lethem, author of "Motherless Brooklyn" and "The Fortress of Solitude" criticized the Atlantic Yards project, calling developer Bruce Ratner's leadership of the project a "mistake." Lisa Chamberlain, executive director of the Forum for Urban Design, suggested an express train from Times Square to Coney Island to draw some of Times Square's tourists to Coney Island.


http://atlanticyardsreport.blogspot.com/2008/11/in-coney-island-visions-report-new.html

[ablarc]

Since Thor's land is blighted, the City should take it by eminent domain.

[BrooklynRider]

I'll second the vote for emminent domain. We have anoher developer in the vein of Horace Bullard and Fred Trump. Pull the plug on them before they ull the plug on us.

[ZippyTheChimp]

The past is prologue.

Steeplechase Park was bought by Fred Trump after its close in 1965. His intention was to build housing along the boardwalk, but the amusements-only zoning had to be changed. To undercut an attempt to landmark the property, Trump demolished its signature structure, the 5 acre pavilion.

http://history.amusement-parks.com/Steeplechase/main/steeplechase@night.jpg

Trump arrogantly hosted a demolition party on the site, but he never got his zoning change. In 1968, he sold the land to the city. The A-baseball Keyspan Park now occupies the site, and while itself a success, has done little to restore Coney Island.

All that remains of the original park is the Parachute Jump, which ironically, is now a NYC landmark.

[spatulashack]

Haha. So much for learning from past mistakes. :mad:

[NYC4Life]

Brooklyn Paper

November 20, 2008 (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/sections/31/46/)
[/URL]
Coney Sitt down: City moves to buy out Joe

By Mike McLaughlin
The Brooklyn Paper

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/assets/photos/31/46/31_46_coneyislandcityplan1_z.jpg
NYC EDC

A rendering of the city’s vision for Coney Island. But first, Mayor Bloomberg needs to buy the land from Joe Sitt.


The city is moving forward with a controversial plan to spend hundreds of millions in taxpayer dollars to buy out Coney Island’s principal landowner and end a years-long standoff to control the amusement area’s destiny.

Joe Sitt’s company, Thor Equities, has gobbled up 10-1/2 acres of land since 2005 in the hopes of developing a Vegas-style resort of hotels, rides and shopping — but Sitt’s plan, which would require a rezoning, was blocked by the Bloomberg Administration in favor of a city-owned theme park along the Boardwalk.

The city, of course, couldn’t realize that vision without first acquring Sitt’s land. And now, it appears that the developer will welcome an offer.

“We are having positive discussions with the city,” said Thor’s spokesman Stefan Friedman in a statement.

The New York Post [URL="http://www.nypost.com/seven/11172008/news/regionalnews/astroland_hope_139140.htm"]reported on Monday (http://www.brooklynpaper.com/sections/31/46/)that the city might pay up to $250 million for Sitt’s land, which he bought for about $100 million, but several sources said the city would pay less.

The two camps were at loggerheads over who would control Coney’s destiny, with the city interested in acquiring five acres from Sitt that fell within the area targeted for the city-owned theme park.

But now, the city is willing to also buy the Thor holdings in the area designed for private developers to build hotels, restaurants, arcades and other attractions that the city says would make Coney Island a tourist magnet throughout the year.

These additional acres will cost the city tens of millions extra than it had intended to pay to launch its grand plan.

Still, the city’s plan is held in higher esteem than Thor’s among a vocal group of Coney Island boosters who want to see as many rides and games in the area than high-rise hotels and shopping — though the city plan includes both.

The city has long held Sitt in low esteem, even as he bought up Coney’s core.

Without mentioning Sitt or his company by name, the mayor suggested that his rival had no interest in preserving the beachfront amusement area.

“There are private developers [in Coney Island] who have their own economic interests and … we’re trying to reconcile property values with what’s in the public interest,” he said in September (http://brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/36/31_36_mm_coney.html).

The mayor has momentum on his side.

The Coney Island Economic Development Corporation last month purchased an acre (http://brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/41/31_41_mm_denos.html) of land used by Deno’s Wonder Wheel Park that Sitt had failed to buy for $11 million.




©2008 The Brooklyn Paper