View Full Version : Silver Towers - 600 West 42nd Street @ 11th Ave - Rental - by Costas Kondylis

Pages : [1] 2

January 13th, 2002, 01:40 AM
Does anybody have any information about River Place II development? *In this (http://www.newyorkconstructionnews.com/NYCN/NYcover/NYcover-003.html) article Larry Silverstein mentions it, and it says it should begin construction mid-2001. *And in this graphic it is listed as under construction. *I can't find any info on it, though. *Anybody? Anybody?


January 14th, 2002, 12:59 AM
On January 12th there was an active parking lot on the site of Riverplace 2, as you can see on the photo below. The start of the construction of Riverplace 2 might be delayed because 1) rental real estate is currently depressed, 2) at 921 apartments in Riverplace 1 (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/riverplace/), they might have difficulty renting out all the apartments, and 3) Brodsky just finished 41-story 420 W 42nd St (The Zebra) (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/420w42nd/) rental apartment building just 2 blocks away, and the Victory building (also on the picture) will be finished in 2002 (although I do not know whether it is going to be a rental, if anybody has any info, please post it)


January 14th, 2002, 05:00 PM
That's too bad, thanks for the update.

April 11th, 2005, 10:57 AM


April 8, 2005 -- A 42nd Street development site that Gov. George Pataki envisions as a convention hotel gateway to an expanded Javits Center is going on the block.

Landowner Larry A. Silverstein is interviewing the city's top real estate brokers for the sales assignment expected to be awarded next week.

A sale could bring the World Trade Center leaseholder about $300 a foot or around $240 million that he could use towards that development.

Sources say the parcel on the eastern end of 11th Avenue between 41st and 42nd Streets is zoned "for anything" and can be built to about 800,000 square feet.

Silverstein Properties previously developed the western end of the block with the River Place rental tower and expected to build a companion apartment building.

Silverstein could not be reached for comment.

July 1st, 2005, 09:23 PM
They've started excavation but the permit says the owner is River Place II LLC, which means the convention center hotel will have to be built elsewhere.



Notice a crane is up for the 46 story 625 West 42nd Street.

July 1st, 2005, 09:38 PM
I'd rather the hotel be built, but at least this building is pretty tall too. 625 fifth looks like a cool building, so let it rise:)

July 16th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Derek2k3 in New Far West 42nd Street Developments thread:

Project #17

River Place Phase II
600 West 42nd Street
53 stories 522/559 feet
Costas Kondylis & Partners
Dev-Silverstein Properties
Residential Rental
882 units 854,683 Sq. Ft.

http://www.silversteinproperties.com/images/2rpelevsml%20copy.jpg http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/41199874.jpg

Silverstein Properties

Slated for development in 2004, this new sister building to One River Place will offer 882 residential apartments on West 42nd Street at 11th Avenue.

The New York Times
March 17, 2004

Developer Balking Over Plans for West Side Convention Hotel


The long-awaited plans for an expanded $2.8 billion convention and stadium corridor on Manhattan's far West Side have hit a snag, even as state and city officials prepare to formally announce the project.

Government officials want to build a 1,500-room convention hotel and ballroom at 42nd Street and 11th Avenue as part of a $1.4 billion expansion of the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center nearby. They view the hotel as a critical element of their plans to attract more conventions and trade shows to New York.

But Larry A. Silverstein, the developer who owns the block where officials plan to build the hotel, is balking. "Larry Silverstein has not heard from either state or city government concerning that property," said Howard J. Rubenstein, his spokesman. "Therefore, he thinks it's premature to discuss what he might do."

Mr. Silverstein built a 900-room apartment tower on the western half of the block several years ago and has said he plans to build a similar tower on the parking lot next door. But in recent weeks, two people active in the hotel industry have said that Mr. Silverstein talked to a developer working with the Hyatt hotel chain about building a tower with condominiums and hotel rooms, though on a much smaller scale than a convention hotel. Mr. Rubenstein said, "He has spoken to no one about a hotel on his property."

In any event, Charles A. Gargano, chairman of the Javits development corporation, said the state would condemn the property if necessary.

"We've recognized all along that a convention hotel would work well with an expanded Javits," he said.

The hotel industry has lobbied for a decade to expand the Javits center, which stretches along 11th Avenue from 34th to 38th Street. And Robert Boyle, chairman of the Javits operating corporation, has long wanted to put a large convention hotel at 42nd Street and 11th Avenue.

The proposed expansion of the convention center would bring it up to 40th Street and nearly double the size of the exhibition space. On the south side of the center, the Jets are proposing a $1.4 billion football stadium that would provide an additional 200,000 square feet.

Jonathan M. Tisch, chairman of the city's convention and visitors bureau, said yesterday at a forum sponsored by Crain's New York that the executive board of the city's Hotel Association had agreed to a $1.50-a-night hotel tax to help pay for the Javits expansion. The state and city are each expected to contribute $300 million. He said he expected the project to be announced very soon.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Javits Convention Center Hotel
600 West 42nd Street
50 stories 664 feet
HOK Architects
Commercial Hotel
1,500 rooms







July 16th, 2005, 11:06 PM
The site of 600 W 42nd Street. 16 July 2005.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/600w42nd/600w42nd.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/600w42nd/)

The site of 600 W 42nd Street. 16 July 2005.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/600w42nd/riverplace2.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/600w42nd/)

August 1st, 2005, 05:34 PM
Actually, all of the work being done on the River Place II site isn't to build River Place II. Unfortunately, it's part of a Brownfield Clean-Up program, because the ground is contaminated underneath the lot (and under River Place I as well). I think Silverstein may have sold the land, but this excavation isn't to build, it's to clean up. And man, it's noisy.

August 2nd, 2005, 10:04 AM
I thought that funding to clean brownfield sites was tied to development of the affected area. So, the clean-up implies development to immediately follow. Yes?

August 2nd, 2005, 01:43 PM
I thought that funding to clean brownfield sites was tied to development of the affected area. So, the clean-up implies development to immediately follow. Yes?

Yes - can't develop without it. But - from what they are telling us here there's no River Place II going up on it.

August 9th, 2005, 01:53 PM
The site stinks.

In foreground, with the existing fat thing

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/9078/riverpl7vm.th.jpg (http://img320.imageshack.us/my.php?image=riverpl7vm.jpg)

August 11th, 2005, 09:58 AM
I have a feeling there will be many more clean up projects on other Westside lots as well, that area is a mess

August 15th, 2005, 09:01 PM
Whats going up here? The Riverside II or the hotel?

August 16th, 2005, 11:00 AM
Whats going up here? The Riverside II or the hotel?

Planned Riverside II. Silverstein is looking to sell. City/State looking for it to be a 1500 room mega-hotel. I think it will be a hotel.

October 27th, 2005, 01:29 PM
I live at Riverplace, and everyone there has said it's River Place II. While the brownfield clean-up is part of it, I always took that to be a fancy name for 'construction site'. They have been driving in the steal piling walls to hold back the land around the edges and the shape appeared to be fairly representative of the artist renderings...which means nothing, I realize. I was told by one of the 'senior' doormen that construction, originally, was to begin mid-October. Considering he hangs out with the building manager all day, I expect him to know more than most.

I hope the hotel gets built personally. Or something ridiculously huge. Won't block my view any and the more people it brings to the block, the more likely I'll get a subway stop to call my own...dreams.

November 13th, 2005, 12:53 AM


November 16th, 2005, 02:59 PM
Larry’s Revenge: Silverstein Digs A Hole At Javits

By Matthew Schuerman
November 16, 2005

Real-estate developer Larry Silverstein has laid the groundwork for a 53-story residential tower at 42nd Street and 11th Avenue—right on the spot where a $1.4 billion plan by the state to expand the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center calls for a hotel.

Over the past six months, Mr. Silverstein’s company has been doing remediation work for what his spokesman says will be a residential tower, with no hotel rooms—the sequel to River Place I, a 40-story steeple of luxury rentals that Mr. Silverstein built four years ago right next-door.

More than a year ago, convention-center planners sketched a new hotel on a vacant plot of land along West 42nd Street without bothering to tell the man who owned it: Larry Silverstein.

Nor has the state approached Mr. Silverstein about buying the lot since then. And either because the price is too high, or because officials have had second thoughts, the new leader in charge of convention-center planning told The Observer that the site is now just one of several possible locations for the hotel. Of course, with each passing day, it will get harder—and more expensive—to wrest the property from Mr. Silverstein’s hands. Instead of the state driving the plan, it’s looking more like the market is.

“It’s his property,” said Charles Gargano, chairman of the New York City Convention Center Development Corporation. “He can do what he wants with it. This in no way affects our decision about where to put the hotel.”

Bid-’Em-Up Larry?

So far, behind tall walls of blue plywood at the southeast corner of 42nd Street and 11th Avenue, Mr. Silverstein’s contractors have dug a pit about 30 feet deep. According to Bud Perrone, the spokesman for Mr. Silverstein’s company, the developer expects to start construction sometime next year. And while the state could still exert its power of eminent domain in order to buy the property away from him, each day of progress makes that effort harder.

But some observers see a gambit in this remediation work.

Mr. Silverstein has been roiled by delays and a lack of tenants downtown, and he recently endured a drubbing by the Mayor, who told the Daily News editorial board earlier this fall that the best thing to do at Ground Zero might be to pay Mr. Silverstein to abandon his interests in the site.

Here, too, Mr. Silverstein’s interests clash with powerful government figures. Beginning work on a residential tower could raise the stakes for the state if it were to buy him off the site. It could also raise the prices he could expect if he’s able to sell the land unbuilt and for residential use, if it looked as though the state were eager to buy from the new owner.

A confidential offering brochure, obtained by The Observer, calls the lot “Midtown West’s Premier Development Site” and boasts that it comes with already “approved plans for a 53-story building of approximately 854,000 square feet.” An additional 150,000 square feet could be added if affordable housing were included. “Buildings such as the Orion, Lumiere, and Central Park Place provide compelling evidence that condominium units at 600 West 42nd, with the appropriate design, will easily achieve prices of $1,100-$1,500 per square foot,” the brochure states.

Two real-estate sources said that Mr. Silverstein was asking between $300 and $325 a square foot, or up to $278 million for the property—which would put it well out of range for the New York City Convention Center Development Corporation, which projected that only $350 million would be needed to buy the land and construct the hotel.

Mr. Silverstein’s company spokesman wouldn’t comment on pricing or whether any offers were made. “Larry did put out feelers, but he said he had a change of heart and decided to build it himself,” Mr. Perrone said. Plans for the tower, including the number of floors, are in development, he added. The excavation permit on file at the city Department of Buildings says the tower will rise 53 stories.

Mr. Gargano said that the price Mr. Silverstein was asking was indeed one reason to look for alternative sites, though the two never negotiated with each other.

Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff said it wasn’t so much Mr. Silverstein’s asking price that prompted the look-around as the fact that 42nd Street has become an expensive location, dominated by luxury condos..

“We have a fixed amount of money, and I think the appropriate thing to do is to really assess where we can best afford to put a hotel,” he told The Observer.

Either way, Mr. Silverstein’s below-ground work and offering plan demonstrate the precariousness of the Javits expansion project a year after the state legislature and the Governor consigned $1.4 billion to a plan that included a hotel on Mr. Silverstein’s property.

In addition to the location of the hotel, officials are uncertain whether they will ever be able to relocate a city bus garage, which is needed for the second phase of the expansion. At the same time, the local community board and a university research institute are pushing for a radical redesign that would use the M.T.A. rail yards once intended as the site of a new stadium for the Jets football team.

That switch seems unlikely, but the lack of a final schematic plan is annoying one of the chief legislators who saw the financing through the State Assembly last fall.

“It’s almost a dereliction of duty that they haven’t presented the operating corporation with a plan by this point,” said Assemblyman Richard Brodsky, a Westchester Democrat running for State Attorney General. “We aren’t saying that plans don’t change, but if that’s what they want to do, they better tell us. All we are hearing are rumors of lack of resources.”

Mr. Gargano told The Observer that the expansion project is still on track, and that the outlines of Phase 1 are clear except for the location of the planned hotel component.

Conventional Planning

The expansion of the Javits Center already rates as one of the state’s most massive development projects, requiring $800 million in state bonding and a new $1.50-a-room hotel tax. It’s a big job. The first phase of the expansion calls for enlarging the exhibition space by 44 percent, from 760,000 to 1.1 million square feet. But the architects will have to do that by adding just one extra block onto the center: Instead of stretching from 34th to 39th streets, as it does now, the center will extend up to 40th Street.

The larger Javits Center will be able to accommodate more and larger shows, but it will still be a midget compared to the three-million-square-footers that other cities are now constructing,.

In addition, the first phase of the expansion calls for about $150 million in public funds to go toward the hotel, which the final environmental-impact statement (as well as the preliminary sketches) stipulates will be located on Mr. Silverstein’s property.

But both of those documents were drawn up under the direction of the agency running—rather than expanding—the convention center. Once Mr. Gargano, a close aide to Governor George Pataki and also chairman of the Empire State Development Corporation, took charge of the expansion about a year ago, he essentially tore up the old plans, which had been drafted by Hellmuth, Obata & Kassabaum.

“We looked at what they had done and determined it was very minimal,” Mr. Gargano said.

He has spent much of the previous year staffing the development corporation, which is headed by Mike Petralia, a former Port Authority administrator. The agency conducted a two-stage selection process for architects and awarded the contract to three: Richard Rogers, the British lord who is expected to bring some flash to the project; FXFowle, a New York boutique firm that will contribute local knowledge and environmental savvy; and A. Epstein & Sons International, a Chicago firm specializing in convention-center design. Members from the three outfits have been in New York since mid-October conducting a charette.

Mr. Gargano’s agency chose the three firms in September, and a preliminary design scheme is expected by the end of the year.

But along the way, Mr. Gargano began to consider locating the hotel elsewhere, especially along 11th Avenue. While he wouldn’t discuss specific parcels, one possibility, between 36th and 37th streets, is owned by Steve Witkoff; another, at 34th Street, was recently purchased by Joseph Moinian.

The original planning team chose 42nd Street because it’s a better place to hail a cab—and feels more central. “We are kind of isolated where we are. When you come out of Javits Center, you have to walk five or six blocks before you find anything,” said Bob Boyle, the chairman of the New York City Convention Center Operating Corporation.

The 42nd Street location has its own shortcomings, however—chiefly the fact that the hotel would be separated from the expanded center by a block-long city bus garage, between 40th and 41st streets, and no one seems confident of being able to persuade the M.T.A. to move it.

“The city is desperate for bus garages,” said Mike Davies, an architect on the project, at a community meeting on Nov. 14. “It is not something we are counting on.”

Another reason to move the hotel from 42nd Street has to do with neighborhood character: The locals aren’t eager to see a hotel along the old Deuce.

“The stretch of 42nd Street west of Eighth Avenue has become solidly residential—everything that has been built and those that are in the pipeline,” said Anthony Borelli, district manager for Community Board 4. “We believe that 34th Street is the future of the expanded corridor. That corridor is going to have a lot more density than is already there.”

The new designers are talking about greatly improving one of the numerous architectural mistakes dotting the city’s landscape—although when it was built in 1986, its architect, I.M. Pei, was quite a star. But they’re hampered by the fact that, instead of starting anew, they’ll be adding another 340,000 square feet to a long shed that blocks off the water for five blocks and is a half-mile from the subway. At the Nov. 14 public meeting, Christopher Harrison, the founder of a dance troupe with a studio nearby, told of how, every day at 4 p.m., hundreds of dazed and confused conventioneers pour west, dragging suitcases of documents, arms flailing, from 11th to 10th and finally to Ninth Avenue, hoping to find a cab somewhere.

Chuck Lauster, an architect who worked on a plan by the Newman Real Estate Institute, housed at Baruch College, was also at the meeting. He argued that the Newman plan—which would turn Javits horizontally between 30th and 34th streets, where the stadium was supposed to go—would open up the Hudson River waterfront and connect the center to the city. (The Newman plan has been dismissed as too costly.)

“Architect to architect, do you really think it is better from an urban-planning perspective not to do east-west, but to build north-south and block more waterfront?” he asked.

The assembled architects laughed, but wouldn’t answer the question.

copyright © 2005 the new york observer, L.P.

November 16th, 2005, 06:40 PM
Oh boy. Get ready for another housing-project looking brick monster.
Greedy developers, moronic city officials, and throw in some NIMBY community boards and you've got a perfect recipe for disaster.
I can't even finish reading that article.

Another reason to move the hotel from 42nd Street has to do with neighborhood character: The locals aren’t eager to see a hotel along the old Deuce. “The stretch of 42nd Street west of Eighth Avenue has become solidly residential—everything that has been built and those that are in the pipeline,” said Anthony Borelli, district manager for Community Board 4.Oh I see, 42nd St. is now theirs to decide as they see fit.

November 24th, 2005, 01:16 PM

November 28th, 2005, 09:43 AM
Its so typical, the State wants to buuild something without owning the land, good for Larry, this development is much better then the planned hotel. The state should not be wasting money building a hotel for Javits, over time and with the Hudson yards rezoning, hotels will come soon enough and big ones at that

March 23rd, 2006, 10:49 AM
The excavation for the foundation for RP2 looks to be nearly complete. It is now a deep square hole with fresh dirt covering the entire surface. All that remains is the pile of dirt leading to the entrance on the north side of the site to allow for bulldozer access.

March 23rd, 2006, 11:28 AM
So, remediation is done? I thought this was a brownfield.

April 2nd, 2006, 07:01 PM


April 2nd, 2006, 08:04 PM
Looks brown to me.

Carting off the soil: is that the remediation?

Where do they put the soil?

April 3rd, 2006, 11:12 AM
OK, so having dug a nice square hole, is anything going to fill it in the immediate future?

April 3rd, 2006, 06:05 PM
Carting off the soil: is that the remediation?

When I walked by last week and looked in it seemed that this was "new" dirt to cover over the lot after clearing the site.

Hoping so anyway -- that way they can get on with building UP.

April 7th, 2006, 05:36 PM
I'm confused...is the property at 600 West 42nd Street suppose to be a rental called Riverplace II or is it suppose to be a hotel for the Jacob Javits Center?

April 7th, 2006, 06:00 PM
I'm confused...is the property at 600 West 42nd Street suppose to be a rental called Riverplace II or is it suppose to be a hotel for the Jacob Javits Center?

For a while it was planned as River Place II, but the owner (Silverstein) was probably holding out for a better market. This is the likely outcome, but its still very unclear.

It is very unlikely to be a hotel for Javits. First, this plan was just decided without ever consulting Silverstein. Second, there is a bus depot between Javits and the plot, which makes it a poor choice - would be hard to have a direct link from the hotel to Javits. Third, they already have plans for a 1500 room hotel at 37th and 11th in the recent Javits plan.

April 7th, 2006, 06:35 PM
So, are they starting construction at this site, or is the plot of land up for sale?

May 25th, 2006, 02:11 AM
Can someone give an update on the RPII construction?
I am moving to NYC this summer and am looking into renting at RPI. I am concerned with the noise from the construction, so any insight would be appreciated.

May 27th, 2006, 01:46 AM
Two River Place:


May 27th, 2006, 01:48 AM
They look very tall!

May 27th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Awesome, where'd you find the rendering? I counted over 60 floors and look how it looms over the Atelier.

May 27th, 2006, 07:42 AM
WOW! That sure is news to me. Looks great! Much better than a clone of Riverplace I. It looks like it's right on top of RP I too, there go some views.

I'm impressed.....is this a Costas Kondylis building?

May 27th, 2006, 09:26 AM
DOB RECORDS (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001117287&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt) show this to be a "53 Story" Building ...

This will certainly wipe out any views from the Atelier (even from that building's highest-level units) of the Times Tower / Empire State Building to the SE.

The RPII site:


May 27th, 2006, 09:36 AM
Two River Place:


Wow! Will RPII be a two-two edifice (like the TWC) or is that supposed to be RPI in the background?

May 27th, 2006, 09:59 AM
Seems to be two towers from a single base ...

RPI is that squatty looking tannish block in the background.

May 27th, 2006, 10:02 AM
DOB RECORDS (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001117287&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt) show this to be a "53 Story" Building ...

That was the count for the previous design.

May 27th, 2006, 10:22 AM
Awesome, where'd you find the rendering? I counted over 60 floors and look how it looms over the Atelier.

I found it at http://www.silversteinproperties.com/ then click on Two River Place. :)

May 27th, 2006, 01:27 PM
The website says completion will be in June 2006(!). I wonder if that's a typo and they mean 2007, or it's left over from the original River Place 2 plan. Also, I could not find the architect anywhere. Emporis still has the old, one-tower rendering for the project by Costas.

May 27th, 2006, 07:06 PM
wow it blows the old 2 river place(:mad: ) out of the water:D ! i'm so happy!:D

May 27th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Seems to be two towers from a single base ...

RPI is that squatty looking tannish block in the background.

That's what I thought. This project looks great.

May 31st, 2006, 02:17 AM
They appear to be Orion-nesque in size.
Is Silverstein really serious with this one or is he just throwing this plan out there in the hopes of selling it to another developer?
Hmmm...I wonder :rolleyes:

June 27th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Hmm, I'd never seen the new rendering. I live in RPI now, well, and have for 2.5 years. The pit next to the building is almost like a staple -- a nasty, rotting, blue fenced staple. No one knows quite what is happening with RPII (at least from RP mgmt). The last rending I remembered looked a lot like RPI, but a tad slimmer and taller, this one is much better. Either way, they need to build it and build it now, RPI is below 5% vacancy -- not too shabby for a 900+ unit building.

Anyone hear anything new on RPII recently? I've seen nothing work-wise when I walk by the pit.

August 23rd, 2006, 09:36 PM
I got a letter last week from River Place Mgmt talking about the brownfield clean up next door at the River Place II lot. It said after examination and so forth, that the site, cleaned and overseen by ConEd and River Place Holdings was about to be approved by the city as 'clean'. I hadn't realized before that this was still going on -- I skipped over the fact that some verification of the clean-up may be done (and evidently was done after this project in particular).

Hopefully this will clear the way for either RPII or whatever to go forward.

September 1st, 2006, 01:01 PM
So, to continue my stalking of the hole next to my building....

There has been actual activity at the pit lately, with a few bull dozers and such moving a new layer of dirt over the site. They said something about having to do this in the Brownfield Cleanup letter I mentioned previously.

I swear, if they don't start construction soon, I'm going to go insane.

October 1st, 2006, 12:23 PM
I was walking past the site last night and there was a new crane appearing over the top of the fence. Maybe something is really going to start here, fianlly.

October 10th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Finally some news.

Here's an excerpt from a Daily News article (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124871&postcount=153) that was talking about the Atelier across the street:

On the corner of 11th Ave., World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein has dug up and removed 41,000 cubic yards of contaminated soil. His cleanup project should be done next month, said Lori O'Connell, a state Department of Environmental Conservation spokeswoman.

In December, he'll start foundation work for 57-story twin towers with a total of 1,350 rental apartments, said his spokesman Bud Perrone. They'll be completed in 2009.

October 30th, 2006, 01:13 PM
Some new pilings are being driven into the center of the site, which would back-up that foundation work will begin in just over a month. Currently its just one line about 15 feet from the south wall.

October 30th, 2006, 02:45 PM
Is this the latest DOB permit (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001237427&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt=)?

So it has shrunk a bit?

October 31st, 2006, 10:58 PM
I think it may be 6-7 stories shorter...just going off prior posts, info, etc. I attached some pictures of the new piling walls going in, if you look, you can make out the darker edge of the tops of the new, inner/deeper wall. Not the most amazing pictures, but this is what you get trying to zoom through a hole in the privacy canvas while rushing to work...

October 31st, 2006, 11:30 PM
Id876: I take it you live in River Place 1 --

Any idea what's up with the long-empty retail area at the West St. side of the building?

(IMO they should tear it out and rethink the design of that entire part of the building ;) )

November 1st, 2006, 02:25 PM
Yep, I am in River Pl. I. Since we are so far west...pondering the fate of the hole is what we do most in the building.

They had a second deli-type place in the retail section to the east of the dry cleaners, but that only lasted 5-6 months. As for the huge retail area...it's been sitting there for the three years I've lived there and I've heard nothing about it that whole time. One possibility is that with the opening of the pier across the street a few weeks back, and with the new buildings (once built), the foot traffic in the area could lead to that space being utilized.

As it is now, I can only see a car dealership working well there. With some major changes, a whole foods would be a great addition. Food Emporium on 10th/42 is just far enough away to be annoying, and too expensive to justify not using Fresh Direct.

Units on or coming to the area on w42/11th ave:
RPI: 921
RPII: 882
River Bank West: 418
Atelier: 478
Moinian Phase II: 950 (from the last it was reported anyway)
That gives just that 42nd street strip 3649 units, not too shabby, and could probably support a real supermarket.

November 3rd, 2006, 05:30 PM
Is this the latest DOB permit (http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobDetailsServlet?requestid=2&allisn=0001237427&allboroughname=&allnumbhous=&allstrt=)?

So it has shrunk a bit?

Nah, the NB Permit is old. The 522 foot number is from when it was a single 53 story tower. The newer foundation permits show some updated figures, it's now 59 stories and contains 1266 units

November 4th, 2006, 02:36 AM
How'd they do that?

That's almost doubling the buildable space.

In New York, proposals usually shrink over time, not get larger.

November 4th, 2006, 09:31 AM
The previous design was before the West Side rezoning. These twin 59 story buildings will look huge from the waterfront, just wish they weren't so generic. Silverstein could've built something quite spectacular since he bought the entire block dirt cheap.

November 8th, 2006, 09:16 AM

November 8, 2006

LARRY Silverstein will soon be developing another set of twin towers.

This time, however, the project, worth nearly $1 billion, will not rise from the World Trade Center site downtown but instead farther north at his River Place site between 41st and 42nd streets near the Javits Convention Center.

Located exactly at 600 W. 42nd St., Silverstein's $917.6 million project will involve constructing a common base that will serve as the foundation for two 57-story towers.

Inside will be 1,157 residential units, 18,277 feet of commercial space and a 194-car underground garage.

A Silverstein spokesperson declined to comment.

Silverstein is applying to use $656 million in Multi-Family Housing Revenue Bonds from the New York State Housing Finance Agency in return for offering 20 percent of the housing units to lower income families.

His daughter, Lisa Silverstein, has been overseeing this development for many years.

A snaking tower with Hudson River and city views was previously planned for the most westerly portion of the site, but development got held up by Gov. George Pataki, who was leaning on Silverstein to make the land the site of an official Javits Center hotel.

Condemnation plans for a sky bridge over 41st Street that was to connect to a new hotel to an expanded Javits Center had begun but weren't finished in part because the additional expansion of the convention center has run into roadblocks.

Chief among them is figuring out where to relocate an MTA bus garage that currently takes up the block between 40th and 41st street.

Copyright 2006NYP Holdings, Inc.

November 9th, 2006, 01:52 AM
Nearly one billion dollars! It's unreal how expensive it is to build in this city....and these are just a couple of boxes.

These are going to have some presence on the West Side...The Orion looks huge and it's on 9th.

November 9th, 2006, 10:31 AM
And let's not forget the real return the city will see once this sucker is built: the obstruction of that damn Zebra Building from the Hudson river!

November 9th, 2006, 12:24 PM
we're talking 800k per apartment. and i assume thats not counting land costs, since he already owned the site? i dont have a sense of per apt prices, but this seems rather high.

November 9th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Something doesn't seem right. That's a lot of money for rentals.

November 9th, 2006, 08:51 PM
I don't know, is a rental tower supposed to be that much cheaper than a condo?

I think it'd be useful to compare this project to Atelier or the Orion, on a unit-by-unit, or square footage basis. I think they'll end up being pretty similar.

November 9th, 2006, 09:17 PM
No, I wasn't talking about the cost to build it. They should be comparable.

Rather, I was questioning the financial feasibility of doing rentals versus condos.

How many months and years of rent do you have to collect in order to get back your investment, let alone turn a profit?

November 9th, 2006, 09:55 PM
Just assuming that 800k figure is right, per apartment, and to simplify, lets say all the units are studios or 1-br...current River Place alcoves are $2200, minimum...

1157 Units:
925.6 Units at market rate
231.4 Units Affordable

1157 x 800,000 = $925,600,000

925.6 x 2200 = $2,036,320/month
231.4 x 1100 = $254,540/month
Totaling $2,290,860 in rent per month, or $27,490,320 per year
Minus 25 doormen/maint. @ $45k each/yr, or $1,125,00 per year in salary
Minus, lets say $3 million a year for water (really random guess, sorry)
Leaving $23,365,320 profit/yr

925,600,000 / 23,365,320 = 39.614 years without bonds
(925,600,000-656,000,000 )/ 23,365,320 = 11.538 year with bonds

There is a ton missing there, but doesn't sound horribly off...

November 11th, 2006, 11:14 PM
Aren't bonds just another form of a loan that the issuer must pay back?

How can one deduct the bond amount from the cost if you still end up having to pay it back?

Anyway, 40 years just to break even just doesn't sound right.

November 12th, 2006, 04:22 PM
I was wondering the same thing -- because I've seen bonds both ways, but you are right, I think these are just tax free loans.

I rounded way up on the salaries, didn't factor for anything other than a large studio/single bedroom, so paying lower cumulative salary plus receiving higher rents per month can change the whole thing.

If the average rent for the market rate apartments was even $800 higher, the break even (going off the prior calculation) is only 29 years, vs 39 years, with no bonds. For every $500 increase in average rent price per month, the break even is 4 years shorter (no bonds):

$2200 is the 39 year break even above
$3000 leads to a 29 year break even
$4000 per month is 21 years

So really, I don't think the 800k per apartment is overly high. My friend, who also lives here in RPI, was speaking with a leasing agent downstairs, and the new building is supposed to put the old one to shame (which isn't overly hard, but could lead to HUGE rents). Guess we'll see!

December 13th, 2006, 02:01 PM
After awhile of speculation...it appears construction is going forward, with more than just the single crane at the site. Seems like foundations are being dug, maybe we'll see some concrete soon.

December 14th, 2006, 05:04 AM
From my observations over the years, the digging will take more than just a couple of months.

Figure anywhere from six to twelve months.

Btw, you used to take pictures.

What happened?

December 21st, 2006, 02:23 PM
I can easily see a few more months of digging -- the concrete comment was just hope. Once good thing about w42 is how close to the surface the bedrock is -- very little dirt to go through (aside from the toxins they were cleaning out originally).

I think the picture comment was to me or lofter...it seems we both go in spurts. When we take them, there's a flood, when we don't, it's a complete drought.

Either way, I will try to get a few of the site & Atelier across the street soon.

December 21st, 2006, 07:14 PM
It was directed at you. ;)

lofter hasn't been around here lately.

January 4th, 2007, 01:30 AM
Some big construction/security guy tried to stop me but I took the picture anyway. Still no correct height on the permits either.



Hopefully Silverstein has had an epiphany and does not choose Costas Kondylis again for 99 Church. I shudder to think that 6 Barclay may get a twin.


January 4th, 2007, 09:35 AM
Some big construction/security guy tried to stop me but I took the picture anyway.

That happens to me all the time -- even when standing on the sidewalk (happened to me yesterday at the Trump Condo-tel site).

I want to say, "WTF are you to tell me what I can or can't do on a public street?" ...

Usually I just say, "oh, OK" -- and take a pic anyway ;)

January 4th, 2007, 11:11 PM
heh yea, I get it a lot in Brooklyn. Probably due to the amount of shoddy construction done there. Often I have to explain myself to someone from the trailer. I should start telling them I accept bribes.

January 4th, 2007, 11:26 PM
Up close, RP1 doesn't look too bad, however in a skyline view, it just looks horrible.

Another brown blob, out of many on W. 42nd.

January 5th, 2007, 11:08 AM
The sunlight on the building in that last photo is just so complementary to the building. Rarely does it look that good. Of course, the photos can never capture the gale force winds facing any pedestrian in front of the building on the best of days.

January 13th, 2007, 01:00 AM
Silverstein Adds "Maids' Quarters" to 42nd Street Towers

Larry Silverstein wants to add a 12-story, 83-unit, low-income rental building on West 42nd Street that will let him add an extra 10 stories or so on his planned River Place II next-door.

The low-income building, for households earning 80 percent of the area median income, gives Mr. Silverstein a 20 percent zoning bonus, enabling two 57-story towers at 600 West 42nd Street. The affordable-housing building comes in addition to 235 low-income units proposed for the high-rise towers, which will make Mr. Silverstein eligible for cheap state financing and another zoning bonus that he can then sell to other developers nearby.

Community Board 4, however, has asked the city to block the zoning bonus in large part because the entrance to the low-income building is on the 41st Street side, which is fairly bereft of anything interesting other than a bus garage.

"As planned, it will look and feel like the maids' quarters for the rest of the project," the letter, sent last week, said.

The two high-rises, arranged on the north and south sides of the block, will be entered from a plaza in between the two of them, which, in turn, will be reached via sidewalks or driveways accessible from both 41st and 42nd streets. There will also be some retail on the 41st Street side, according to a source familiar with the development.

Silverstein spokesman Dara McQuillan defended the plan, saying in a statement, "We have designed a residential community that will add 318 exquisite apartments for moderate- and low-income residents and families of the community, and we have no doubt that each of the units will be highly sought after."

- Matthew Schuerman

Posted by The Real Estate on January 8, 2007 (http://therealestate.observer.com/2007/01/silverstein-adds-maids-quarters-to-42nd-street-towers.html)

copyright © 2006 the new york observer, L.P.

January 13th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Community Board 4, however, has asked the city to block the zoning bonus in large part because the entrance to the low-income building is on the 41st Street side, which is fairly bereft of anything interesting other than a bus garage.Shows how retarded these community boards are and what their true ulterior motives are: to obstruct any increase in development as much as they can.

They don't give a rat's behind about affordable housing either, just using it for their arguments against development.

Because if they did, they wouldn't care if the entrance to the additional affordable units will open to 41st or not, just that there are more affordable units.

As it is, their argument is that if the units don't open up into a more lively street, then there shouldn't be any units at all.

January 13th, 2007, 01:19 AM
Btw, that's the first time I've heard of this new argument against development: you can't build because the entrance to the building is located on an uninteresting street.

Just freakin' unbelievable.

And you know what's more unbelievable?

The city will problably listen to them, too!

January 15th, 2007, 11:37 PM
It's not like RPI on 42nd has all that exciting of an entrance...what, we have the folan gong people? or the white mass that is the Chinese consulate (which doesn't look too horrifically different from the white-mass that is the MTA depot)? or have to walk 4 avenues to get to a subway?

Deal with it. It's Manhattan, you can't have all access points on 42nd street. It still is fairly cheap housing in the (somewhat) middle of the city -- I wish I wasn't so 'well-off' that I could qualify for low income housing. I mean, my 110k in student loans gets me no leeway?

January 16th, 2007, 10:13 AM
"low-income" and "middle-income" housing are defined as multipliers of a neighborhood's average income; the threshholds change, so you might qualify for "low-income" housing in some areas and not in others.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

January 16th, 2007, 10:16 AM
I'm on the fence about their ojections. The 80/20 plan was to build integrated housing, because sociological studies showed that individuals (particularly children) living "low incme" lives were more likely to educate themselves and advances themselves from prior familiar generaerrations ranks within the class system.

It is not JUST about housing. It is about integration and responding to data of sociological sciences that provides evidence to support it.

We argue science and what's best for the city so often without understanding that the "city" is the population - not the buildings. Building smart means looking at every science to build apprpriately for th future. Filling a building with 20% low income (which in these cases usually favors low-income WHITE applicants like teachers and social workers) does not place the 80% wealther in any danger.

Also, by allowing the height bonus, the building ultimately diminishes the 80/20 rule - completely undermines it.

April 27th, 2007, 01:35 PM
There has been actual work being done lately -- with a larger crane on the site and some foundations and rebar on the floor of the hole. The entrance gate even has a fancy sign on it saying 'open driveway' (by fancy, I mean a piece of paper taped up). I'll get pictures sometime.

May 22nd, 2007, 04:02 PM
New rendering at http://www.kondylis.com/ (I wish their renderings were bigger)


May 22nd, 2007, 04:03 PM
My bad job in resizing...


May 22nd, 2007, 04:07 PM
New rendering at http://www.kondylis.com/ (I wish their renderings were bigger)


These towers are impressive. Silverstein has far more taste and pride in his projects than Macklowe does.

May 22nd, 2007, 05:17 PM
I think it is too bad that these towers are so far west. They should be on 57th str. or 8th ave and 55th st. as opposed to the boring boxes going up on these sites.

May 22nd, 2007, 05:29 PM
I'll take them anywhere!

May 22nd, 2007, 05:30 PM
Speaking of Silverstein's anti-Macklowe pride in his development, someone who has seen the renderings for 99 Church Street informs me that it will be a beautiful tower with a crown.

May 22nd, 2007, 06:36 PM
They look nice to me and much better than what was originally going to be RP II. I bet they are close to 700 feet tall too, they are going to look huge.

I think they'll start to rise soon....foundation work must be nearly complete by now.

June 2nd, 2007, 09:21 AM
Carlos posted this view of the River Place 2 site at SkyscraperCity.


June 2nd, 2007, 09:41 AM
My bad job in resizing...


Looks decent. Notice how the tower configuration is similar to the old WTC. Coincidence?

June 21st, 2007, 11:40 AM
anyone been by this site lately?

June 22nd, 2007, 12:33 AM
What I'm not too happy with with this development is that these buildings are 57 floors high, yet the buildings are only about 510 feet.

June 22nd, 2007, 01:24 AM
What I'm not too happy with with this development is that these buildings are 57 floors high, yet the buildings are only about 510 feet.

DOB has it listed as slightly taller and the permits I'm referencing appear to be for the (shorter) old design, so I would imagine this revised design will be quite a bit taller.

I don't see any permits that match the new design, though I could be misreading the applications.

June 22nd, 2007, 07:09 AM
Foundation work is going on.

June 23rd, 2007, 07:44 PM
These towers look fantastic from the rendering. Much classier than River Place I, that's for sure. I just wish they were 1000 feet tall each. One can dream, right?

June 27th, 2007, 09:46 PM
:-) I know, I'm useless. Here are a few phone-pics. Sorry for the delay, but concrete is-a-pourin at the site. These aren't brand new, but the first is most recent, you can see the walls are lined now. After the first, you can see the same sheets exposed for the corrugated walling.









June 28th, 2007, 09:46 AM
I was at the Atlier last week, and the salesperson that works there took me on a tour of some of the units that are still available at the Atlier...He told me that they are only building one tower at this site, and it will be at the most easternly point on that lot....since there is only one tower it would not block the views of the units facing south at the Atlier....Is he right or wrong..I thought they were building two towers there, or is he a typical real estate person and lied..?

June 28th, 2007, 09:57 AM
I would not trust the salesperson. What makes you think they know more than the forumers at Wired NY?

Personally, I don't see why you think one tower would block fewer views. The original tower was a single bulky mass, while the revised scheme has two separate towers that contain about the same amount of space but will block fewer views because they are individually less bulky.

June 28th, 2007, 10:35 AM
Any NYC salesperson who tells a potential buyer that your views will be OK in the future should be made to sign an affidavit swearing to that information.

See how quickly they balk at that option :cool:

June 28th, 2007, 10:46 AM
Plus, why would any developer in their right mind use only a small fraction of the lot to build on. If it were just one tower, it would likely use up the majority of the lot.

June 29th, 2007, 12:52 AM
He was directing your attention across the street, because Joe Moinian (who built Atelier) is throwing an even taller tower up immediately to Atelier's east (on the old gas station lot. In 4-5 years, figure that Atelier will have no unobstructed southern views and no east views.

June 29th, 2007, 02:22 PM
The pits definitely have the look of two major foundation areas. And ^ exactly, if the view included an east facing window, they were just saying your south view would be less obstructed than your east. I really doubt the salesperson even mentions the Moinian tower going up soon. Good times.

June 29th, 2007, 06:41 PM
What do salespeople know about development anyway, especially ones that are not theirs?

There are over 1000 units and over 1 million square feet in this project. In order to fit this much space into one, single 58-story tower, it would have to one big fat one.

If I was an Atelierian, I would prefer to see two thin towers as opposed to a single fat one.

June 30th, 2007, 12:06 AM
I think a double tower residential / hotel is most likely. Silverstein toyed with a convention center hotel and he would beat all the Far West Side planners to the punch (with a hotel in walking distance and on a main ave with good transportation.)

August 9th, 2007, 03:38 PM
I walked by this site today and it was very busy, with lots of cement being poured in the foundations. Should start to rise soon.

August 10th, 2007, 03:29 AM
I think a double tower residential / hotel is most likely. Silverstein toyed with a convention center hotel and he would beat all the Far West Side planners to the punch (with a hotel in walking distance and on a main ave with good transportation.)

i dont think silverstein was ever seriously considering a hotel. i think the state just assumed they could put one there, as part of their javits plan, without speaking to silverstein first. what kinda made the plan less attractive to the state was that the bus depot was in between javits and the silverstein lot, and the MTA wasnt going to let go of the depot. the state wanted a hotel where people didnt have to go outside to get into javits.

for now, its supposed to be all residential, and every time i read about the apartment count, it grows. last article said 1340. its at least 1200 apartments though.

August 10th, 2007, 11:35 PM
^ Those figures have changed again. ;)

$700M Funds II River Place Construction

By Melissa Kress
August 8, 2007 (http://www.globest.com/news/966_966/newyork/162956-1.html)

NEW YORK CITY-Six years after I River Place reached completion, $700 million is now in place to fund the construction of II River Place. All total, the luxury residential project will contain 2.3 million sf.

Cushman & Wakefield Sonnenblick-Goldman LLC acted as the financial advisor for project developer Larry Silverstein, in what may be the largest single residential construction loan to close. According to a statement from CWSG, the loan will be led by the Bank of New York and the Allied Irish Bank. New York State Housing Bonds will finance a major portion of II River Place, with the 107 corporate units included in the plan set to be financed conventionally, CWSG says.

The New York office of law firm Morrison & Foerster LLP represented Bank of New York, as lead administrative agent, in connection with the $700-million financing. Attorneys from Morrison & Foerster involved in the deal include Mark Edelstein, John McCarthy and Christopher Delson.

Arthur Sonnenblick, senior managing director of CWSG, tells GlobeSt.com construction has just begun and II River Place should reach completion in approximately 30 months. He declined to reveal the total project cost or the terms of the $700-million loan. II River Place, with two 58-story towers, is rising at West 42nd Street and 11th Avenue. It will include 1,359 rental apartments, 21,000 sf of retail, a 13,000-sf amenity center/health club with an Olympic-size swimming pool and 194 parking spaces. I River Place contains 921 rental apartments in a 42-story tower. That tower was completed in 2001. Costas Kondylis designed the development project.

II River Place will have 934 luxury market-rate apartments, 107 corporate apartments, 235 low-income apartments, 83 inclusionary housing moderate income units and retail space. I River Place and II River Place will have a common 22,500-sf park, but each residential tower will have its own entrances, lobbies and elevators.

“River Place II will be an outstanding success which can be attributed to its high-quality design, outstanding amenities, and the strong Silverstein sponsorship as well as the tremendous growth in the office and residential midtown-west real estate market," Sonnenblick says.

Copyright © 2007 ALM Properties, Inc.

August 14th, 2007, 01:15 AM




August 14th, 2007, 01:44 PM
I am so gald to see these twins go up. Thanks for the updates Derek2k3.

August 17th, 2007, 01:33 PM
They are working away, even on weekends. There is now scaffolding going up on the edge of the site, along with Derek's pic of the crane, there are a few smaller cranes in the pit...rather exciting site.

August 17th, 2007, 04:11 PM
Finally, some new serious construction on this end of 42nd again. It had a break for like what, two years of nothing going on? Now if they would only proceed with that Related site a couple of blocks to the east.

August 17th, 2007, 05:02 PM
Finally, some new serious construction on this end of 42nd again. It had a break for like what, two years of nothing going on? Now if they would only proceed with that Related site a couple of blocks to the east.

RP2 was stagnated because of 9/11. Specifically, silverstein waited to see how the new WTC development plan would turn out before starting on RP2. He owns both sites.

August 17th, 2007, 05:04 PM
It had a break for like what, two years of nothing going on?What are you talking about? The Atelier was only finished earlier this year.

August 19th, 2007, 03:53 PM
Atelier is nice I like it, I just think the night lighting needs a lil work.

August 19th, 2007, 05:08 PM
RP2 was stagnated because of 9/11. Specifically, silverstein waited to see how the new WTC development plan would turn out before starting on RP2. He owns both sites.

RP2, along with other plots in the area, were not delayed by 9/11, but by the recession, which cased rental prices to drop from 2002 to 2004. But at the same time, construction costs were rising rapidly, making it a difficult market to work in.

Although atelier and orion were built, some developers waited for ideal conditions. With rental prices high again, so many projects have started. Even condo projects can turn into rentals if the condo market sways, providing insurance.

August 19th, 2007, 09:53 PM
RP2, along with other plots in the area, were not delayed by 9/11, but by the recession, which cased rental prices to drop from 2002 to 2004. But at the same time, construction costs were rising rapidly, making it a difficult market to work in.

Although atelier and orion were built, some developers waited for ideal conditions. With rental prices high again, so many projects have started. Even condo projects can turn into rentals if the condo market sways, providing insurance.

OK, but I contacted the people at RP1 a couple of years ago, and they told me that LS was waiting to see how the law suit over the WTC site would turn out and how things would turn out there before doing anything about RPII. Of course, the crash in rental prices was also fueled by 9/11.

August 20th, 2007, 12:57 AM
It'd be great to figure out exactly what the impact on the view of the corner units would be in the Atelier. A rep said to me that we'd definitely still see the empire state, etc, and that it'd only cover up the tunnel entrance.

August 25th, 2007, 03:47 PM
These buildings remind me of element. Glad they're being built! Are they designed by the same person/architectural firm?

August 25th, 2007, 05:26 PM
They are not by the same architects. The Element was by SLCE, while Costas Kondylis did the Atelier and River Place I/II.

August 29th, 2007, 08:36 PM
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6169/riverplaceue7.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=riverplaceue7.jpg)

August 29th, 2007, 09:40 PM
These tower will be a VERY welcome GlASS:D additon to the area that is filled with brick buildings seen in the backround of that pic! They should rise fast from now on.

September 23rd, 2007, 02:20 PM
from sept. 20th. (sorry it's a little blurry - cellphone pic)


September 23rd, 2007, 09:27 PM
Looking forward to seeing the twins :)

September 23rd, 2007, 10:17 PM
1.One floor is up...

2. Peeking insider (Lofter-style)

September 24th, 2007, 12:25 AM
^Thanks. I'm looking forward to this one.

September 24th, 2007, 12:27 AM
Love to see NYC pedestrians running against the light :cool:

October 3rd, 2007, 09:02 PM
There is a sign up at River Place I saying 41st st, btw 11/12th aves will be closed one day this coming week because another crane is going up. They're really cranking at this site the last month. With a second crane the floors should stack on even faster. Hot.

October 3rd, 2007, 10:06 PM
2 tower cranes? Love it.

October 8th, 2007, 12:40 PM
^ went up this past Saturday.

Two tower cranes makes the two tower Silverstein plan look more and more realistic (not that it was doubted).

October 24th, 2007, 01:04 PM
I like the new renderings, as seen on Curbed:


Silver Rush in Midtown's Wild West

Wednesday, October 24, 2007, by Joey
http://curbed.com/uploads/2007_10_silver1.jpgDeveloper Larry Silverstein sure is a swell guy. A bowling alley is opening in the ground floor of his 1 River Place (http://curbed.com/archives/2007/09/24/its_official_bowling_is_the_new_starbucks.php) rental tower on a still-barren stretch of Far West 42nd Street, so he's doing the bowling company a solid by infusing the neighborhood with thousands of new customers. The Post's Lois Weiss has the big reveal (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242007/business/twins_for_deuce.htm?page=1) today of Silverstein's—ego alert!—Silver Towers at River Place, twin 60-story towers being constructed at 600 West 42nd Street, near Eleventh Avenue. The rental complex will boast 1,359 units in all, with all of those amenities that could get someone to actually consider moving to 42nd Street and Eleventh Avenue: gym, pool, spa, parking garage, etc. The architect is Costas Kondylis & Partners, a given for any huge project in Manhattan right now. A 20,000-square-foot park with an "interactive mist fountain" will accompany the twin towers, as will some much-needed retail. The subway station (http://curbed.com/archives/2007/10/23/mta_to_western_trailblazers_neener_neener.php) is a whole separate headache. The Kondylis website (http://www.kondylis.com/) has some more images of "River Place II," and you can see them...
· Twins for Deuce (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242007/business/twins_for_deuce.htm?page=1) [NYP]

October 24th, 2007, 03:00 PM
You know they should just change the street names of far west 42nd street to "Costas Klondys Way". :rolleyes:

Gee Silverstein didnt you get some sort of satisfaction when you saw the great architetural design of WTC 2, 3 by great self respecting architects??? Why would you regress in such a lamentable way.

Oh!! Thats right! Its cost a little more to design beautiful architecture, specially when there are not Liberty Bonds involved. Silverstein, I count my blessings that Childs talked you out of your own cheap stupidity.

October 24th, 2007, 03:07 PM
This is a beautiful tower though. I am impressed.

October 24th, 2007, 07:17 PM
Let's post that Lois Weiss NY Post article here, shall we?


TWICE AS NICE: Costas Kondylis & Partners'
design for Larry Silverstein's 60-story Silver
Towers at River Place (above), which will have
1,359 units and more than 20,000 feet of
retail space.


October 24, 2007 (http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242007/business/twins_for_deuce.htm) -- SILVERSTEIN Properties has finally started construction of 600 W. 42nd St., and we're now unveiling the design for its $700 million twin-towered plan at the corner of Eleventh Avenue.

The 60-story Silver Towers at River Place will be a sleek neighbor to its 40-story cousin next door, 1 River Place. Both were designed by Costas Kondylis & Partners for Silverstein.

In the north tower, 107 units on the second through seventh floors will have corporate housing and hotel-like services.

The entire rental project will have 1,359 units, with 317 of them, or 20 percent, classified as more affordable housing.

There is a mix of studio, one- and two-bedroom apartments connected through a six story base that will host a fitness center with an Olympic-size swimming pool, spa, lounge, library, parking for 194 cars, and more than 20,000 feet of retail. Many of the units have balconies.

As part of the Inclusionary Housing Program - a city-run program designed to promote affordable housing in new developments - an adjacent 12-story new building will have 83 units set aside for moderate-income tenants earning approximately 80 percent of the city's median income.

A new 25,000-foot public park designed by Thomas Balsley & Associates will include an interactive mist fountain for children and a dog area.

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc.

October 24th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Is this the 2 River Place under construction or a separate development in the area?

October 24th, 2007, 07:48 PM
It has always been River Place II but according to that Post article it's now been christened, the Silver Towers. ;)

October 24th, 2007, 08:44 PM
This design resembles the original 10 Columbus Circle design from the late 1980s.

October 25th, 2007, 09:06 AM
You know they should just change the street names of far west 42nd street to "Costas Klondys Way". :rolleyes:

Gee Silverstein didnt you get some sort of satisfaction when you saw the great architetural design of WTC 2, 3 by great self respecting architects??? Why would you regress in such a lamentable way.

Oh!! Thats right! Its cost a little more to design beautiful architecture, specially when there are not Liberty Bonds involved. Silverstein, I count my blessings that Childs talked you out of your own cheap stupidity.

Comparing this to his first phase of River Place and the initial design of this 2nd phase, I'd say he's had an architectural epiphany. Maybe not enough, and now too late to give this side of 42nd street any dignity.

October 25th, 2007, 01:30 PM
... it's now been christened, the Silver Towers.

IM Pei lays claim to that ^^^ name (http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GV/GV016UniversityVillage.htm).

October 25th, 2007, 07:16 PM
After viewing the latest and larger rendering of the Silver Towers, I think it is just a taller version of the Rushmore (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12039&page=2), which coincidently (or not coincidently) is also by none other, Costas Kondylis.

There are just so many similarities between the two. Just illustrates how Kondylis just uses a template for his designs now. :(

http://www.pbase.com/image/72639117.jpg http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242007/photos/biz040.jpg
The Rushmore _______________________________The Silver Towers (aka River Place II)

October 25th, 2007, 09:17 PM
Not much progress. 10/21/2007


October 25th, 2007, 10:31 PM
It will start going up fast now -- just in time to kill views for some new folks over at The Atelier :cool:

October 25th, 2007, 11:41 PM
Anyone have any clue what the height for this project is? I am guessing in the mid 700' at best?

October 25th, 2007, 11:51 PM
I'd say about 690'

October 26th, 2007, 12:02 PM
My guess is under 600 feet. I recall the height per floor on RPII being less than 10 feet, but I would not mind to see an adjustment upward.

October 26th, 2007, 01:38 PM
The lobby and amenity levels won't be 9' tall and the mechanical space at the top of the towers are like 40 feet.

6 Barclay is another Kondylis-designed rental with 58 stories and is about 680 feet.

October 26th, 2007, 09:03 PM
The base in the rendering of 2 RP looks terrible and appears to have little to no relation to the towers above.

If CK pulls a Barclay on this one and ends up giving us two bulked-up faux-masonry crowns then he should be tarred and feathered -- then tossed off the end of Pier 84.

October 26th, 2007, 09:46 PM

October 26th, 2007, 11:49 PM
DOB lists the towers at 57 floors and 580 ft.

Since they don't include the mechanical equipment/floors at the top, I'll generously add in 70 more feet to that total and that should equal to about 650 feet +/- 10 feet. :)

November 5th, 2007, 03:23 PM

NOVEMBER 3, 2007





December 2nd, 2007, 01:48 AM
this building is moving along. the tower is up to the eigth floor.



December 2nd, 2007, 12:23 PM
These buildings actually look nicer than the similar (but dramatically more expensive) Rushmore.

December 22nd, 2007, 05:17 PM
The Real Deal

Lucky Strike bowling alley rolling out at One River Place

By Charles Lyons
December 21, 6:32 pm

After a seven-year vacancy, the 40,000 square-foot retail space under One River Place has finally found a tenant -- Lucky Strike Entertainment.

The lease for the Hell's Kitchen spot at 12th Avenue and 42nd Street was signed earlier this month, and Lucky Strike plans to be open for business in the fall of 2008.

New York real-estate mogul Larry Silverstein completed 40-story, 921-unit rental apartment tower in 2000. The Costas Kondylis-designed building was fully occupied by 2003, while the 40,000 square feet of ground floor retail space languished.

The retail space faces the West Side Drive, the Circle Line ferry and the Hudson River.

Lucky Strike said it plans to open a massive entertainment complex. The space will include state-of-the art bowling lanes; a bowling lounge and eatery, with dining available at all lanes; high-resolution video screens to showcase artwork of emerging artists; and a private party area called Lucky Strike Luxe.

"We are ecstatic to open in Manhattan," said Dolf Berle, president of Lucky Strike Entertainment, in a statement.

"I was not worried at all that the space was vacant for so long," CEO Steven Foster said. "That space was waiting for Lucky Strike Lanes."

Silverstein originally purchased the property back in 1980. In October, the developer broke ground on companion project, Silver Towers at River Place. The two 60-story residential towers will have 1,359 rental units and will be connected by a six-story base at 600 West 42nd Street.

"The fact that a second tower is going up shows more development on the West Side and that is very exciting to us," Foster said. By Charles Lyons

January 12th, 2008, 02:06 PM
quote=After viewing the latest and larger rendering of the Silver Towers, I think it is just a taller version of the Rushmore (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12039&page=2), which coincidently (or not coincidently) is also by none other, Costas Kondylis.

There are just so many similarities between the two. Just illustrates how Kondylis just uses a template for his designs now. :(

Thankful for small favors in that the chunky hideous base on the Rushmore is not as tall --only 6 stories on this new one. From the street it looks like a hulking mass of ugliness with the 6-8 stories it has. At least there will be some sunlight to the south between the two buildings

http://www.pbase.com/image/72639117.jpg http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242007/photos/biz040.jpg
The Rushmore _______________________________The Silver Towers (aka River Place II)[/quote]

January 12th, 2008, 11:07 PM
... the chunky hideous base on the Rushmore is not as tall --only 6 stories on this new one. From the street it looks like a hulking mass of ugliness with the 6-8 stories it has.
Verifying the chunky ugliness of the Rushmore base, having done recon in that area this past week.

Hopefully Kondylis learned a thing or four from what he did wrong at Rushmore and we'll see something better at RP2.

January 30th, 2008, 10:09 PM
Today 1/30/08 taken from 38th st.

January 30th, 2008, 11:41 PM
A shadow grows ^ over the Atelier ...

(how ticked off are the silly folks over there who bought a south-facing unit for the great city views :confused: )

January 31st, 2008, 07:56 AM
In this city you have to look around before you buy, if you really care about the views. Any word on the plot at the corner of 42nd and 10th?

January 31st, 2008, 10:41 AM
It's still in the works and it'll be another Kondylis, which will make that an all-Kondylis area.

January 31st, 2008, 11:14 AM
OK..More Costas....I'm so excited.:(

February 1st, 2008, 02:20 PM
Believe it or not, it looks like glass has already begun to go up on the SE corner facing 11 Ave.

February 1st, 2008, 04:11 PM
This was late Saturday 01/26/08. More Wavy glass.



February 1st, 2008, 05:09 PM
More Wavy glass.

Does Kondylis ever use any other type :confused:

Sadly this one may end up looking like a mega-version of his hulking pile (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91060&postcount=14) at 88 Leonard (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71365&postcount=6) http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

February 1st, 2008, 05:20 PM
Oh no...and I had such high hopes for this one, too. :(

February 1st, 2008, 05:39 PM
Didn't we all?

They inundate us with pretty pictures.

and then ...........

February 2nd, 2008, 09:08 AM

That huge boxy base is going to look dreadful with that cheap-ass glass and windows.

And check out how the windows are installed and resting on the floorplates instead of covering over them. Another sign of its cheapness.

February 2nd, 2008, 09:20 AM
The floor to ceiling height looks kinda low too.

February 2nd, 2008, 09:26 AM
It's a rental, so Silverstein knew he can cut corners and still have no trouble renting the whole darn thing out, and at an exorbitant price, I might add.

February 3rd, 2008, 12:34 PM
I am an Ironworker with Local 46. I am working on River Place 2. I've been taking pictures with my camera phone so if you would like I could post pictures of the progression of the project

February 3rd, 2008, 12:47 PM
yankee9507: Welcome aboard.

And, YES! Please post all the pics you want. Especially from up top.

February 4th, 2008, 01:52 AM
Does Kondylis ever use any other type :confused:
Nope, since using classy materials requires 1) spending more money and 2) being a competent architect.

And Yankee, welcome aboard indeed, and please do share photos.

February 4th, 2008, 02:09 AM
Hi Yankee, welcome. I'd love to see more building pics. I walked by on Saturday everyone was working. Almost every site in the city had major activity. This project seems to be up to the 15th floor. I think it will look nice, but the towers are much closer together than the rendering would have yo believe.

February 5th, 2008, 10:40 AM
I am very confused as to the permits the city has given for the two 42nd street projects... is it legal for them to begin work at 6am? what about the fact that several nights per week the work goes thru the night and jackhammers can be heard at 2 and 3 in the morning? What in heaven's name are the residents to do about this? I have called 311 twice to report work in the middle of the night. Would this be tolerated on the east side? When i lived there, work began promptly at 7 am and was done by 5 or 6 the latest. Any illumination for me?

February 5th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Are you sure that those sounds are coming from this construction site? I would think that they've gone way past "jackhammering" by this stage.

Maybe it's emergency street/road/utility repair that you are hearing?

February 6th, 2008, 10:12 AM
I live at Orion and hear the same thing. I thought that the noise was coming from the site at 42nd and Eighth.
Where do you live?

February 6th, 2008, 10:44 AM
I live at Orion and hear the same thing. I thought that the noise was coming from the site at 42nd and Eighth.
Where do you live?

no this is definitely coming either from my own site in front of Atelier or across the street. DEFINITELY construction sounds and jackhammers (I held the phone to the 311 operator!) but not street drilling bc i can hear where its coming from. Its also random nights of the week. Always midweek. The official work seems to start well before 6am. Last night was all about the trucks back and forth at 2am. I can take the time to call 311 every night i hear it but there seems to be enough residents of 3 buildings affected by this noise...Im wondering how they feel?

February 6th, 2008, 12:06 PM
Wow...I can't believe it's coming from all the way over there. It's definitely faint from my apartment, but still annoying. You must be livid!

February 7th, 2008, 08:19 PM
the north tower is up to the 16th floor and the south tower is at 13. There are a lot of guys up on the deck so it is really crowded but it does seem to be really small space-wise. I will take some more pics tomorrow and hopefully have them up soon

February 8th, 2008, 09:48 PM
here are some pics

February 9th, 2008, 01:29 AM
Your pics are greatly appreciated. It's from an angle that not many here can do from.

Keep us updated regularly.

February 10th, 2008, 04:07 PM
Thanks, Inside Man Yankee.

February 14th, 2008, 12:19 AM

Can't wait to see your progress pictures. Thanks for uploading those for us.:)

February 14th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Indeed, they do start early, but I figure the earlier they start, the sooner the building is done. I face the south in RPI and I get to listen to the beeping of buses at the MTA depot all night -- yet hear absolutely no jackhammering.

I was walking home saturday night around midnight and they were jackhammering the street, fixing a hole, so that could be it. Also, on the Atelier side there is more jackhammering, though I haven't noticed them ever working early (ie the site will sit forever - they're probably waiting for the last few east facing units in the atelier to go, ha).

I was a little surprised, my rent renewal for this year only went up 3%, up about $60. Hopefully all these new units will help keep the area somewhat affordable (I laugh to myself when I write the word 'affordable' in reference to 2K+ rents).

My friends unit faces the construction, I'm watching his dog this weekend, hopefully can snap a few pictures. They should be to floor 21 or so by Saturday (I *think* they were around 19-20 today, I was rushing, so counting was jerky).

Now if we could just get that damn subway over here!

February 15th, 2008, 01:43 PM




February 15th, 2008, 03:50 PM
Thanks for the photo update.

Comparing that facade to the old and new renderings:

February 15th, 2008, 07:58 PM
So Costas has designed the Platinum, the Silver Towers and nearly got a gold bar built for Trump.

February 17th, 2008, 03:19 PM
I was way off before -- they are just starting on the 18th floor now (with the white tarps drapped over the 18th).

Here are a few pics of the RPII site and the site next to the Atelier (they are about one level below street level, for reference).





February 17th, 2008, 04:18 PM
Thanks for that shot of the site next to Atelier, I was wondering what was happening there.

February 17th, 2008, 06:13 PM
I really hope Moinian dumped Kondylis' design for Atelier II.

February 18th, 2008, 10:42 PM

lori smith (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorismith/)

February 18th, 2008, 10:52 PM
Forming a nice cluster over there; I agree with you AN, but you know Moinian is keeping costas.

February 24th, 2008, 09:06 PM
A few snapped today...





March 1st, 2008, 01:55 PM
Hey just letting you guys know we are pouring one floor each day now. One day we pour a floor on the north tower and the next day the south tower. Pending the weather, the process will be repeated til we top out

March 1st, 2008, 02:23 PM
They should rename this part of 42nd, Costas Kondylis Way.

March 1st, 2008, 05:57 PM
Hey Yankee9507, how thick are the floor plates and how come the project on 37th and 10th seem to have much thicker ones?


37th & 10th

March 4th, 2008, 07:41 PM
I have no idea. I just build what they tell me to build, lol. I'll ask about it though

March 22nd, 2008, 09:30 PM

March 23rd, 2008, 09:14 AM
Odd angle ^

Both Time Warner and Hearst appear to be SOUTH of 42nd in that pic :confused:

March 26th, 2008, 05:30 PM
as you can see the south tower "my tower" is now visible from the larger tower in Riverplace 1. If anyone has any views of the workers can they please take some photos. I would love to show them to the guys! Thanks

April 1st, 2008, 06:23 PM
mid-March '08



April 9th, 2008, 01:35 AM
653 ft tall according to emporis

April 13th, 2008, 04:54 PM
a couple of shots taken today...
from 38th st

Looking west across 41st

April 13th, 2008, 06:37 PM
Is it just my perception or are the two towers shaped differently?

It seems like the western tower looks to be more rounded (cylindrical) whereas the eastern tower looks more rectangular.

If that is the case, I prefer the shape of the western, cylindrical tower more.

April 13th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Possibly the same design for each tower, but each turned on a different axis?

April 13th, 2008, 07:19 PM
both round on sides facing each other, and squared off on the outer perimeters.

April 13th, 2008, 10:30 PM
^ Should be the reverse.

Yup, that would be Kondylis.

April 17th, 2008, 09:41 PM
the towers are mirror images of each other. the prints are exactly the same, just turned 180 degrees. Its getting hot up there. 32 stories high there is no sun cover so we are roasting up there! Love this weather

April 17th, 2008, 11:01 PM
yankee, couple of questions...

How thick are the floor slabs?

Has the work slowed down somewhat now that the requirements by the DOB has been implemented requiring an inspector to be on hand each time the crane needs to be raised?

April 19th, 2008, 07:28 PM
i believe the floor slabs are 8 1/2" but i could be wrong. again i just lay out the steel and stuff.

with all the accidents recently on construction sites, there are more safety guys on the job. if you notice, a floor gets poured every day; one day the north tower, the next day the south tower. the job is still going at a good pace so it should top out in 2 months or so.basically the safety guys are making sure we wear proper gear and stuff

April 19th, 2008, 08:20 PM
Those "safety guys" -- are they from the Developer or from the City?

April 26th, 2008, 01:36 AM




April 28th, 2008, 09:57 PM

Hopefully, all of this crap will be gone in 10 years.

April 28th, 2008, 10:03 PM
Please not Met lumber!
(my second home)

April 30th, 2008, 11:39 AM
dacruz33 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15853567@N00/2452024986/sizes/l/)

May 25th, 2008, 07:35 PM


May 27th, 2008, 09:03 AM

May 31st, 2008, 08:04 AM
nice shot, derek

can you spot it?


May 31st, 2008, 08:44 AM
dacruz33 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15853567@N00/2452024986/sizes/l/)
The buildings that sit directly fronting the river are mostly scale-less crap. Why?

May 31st, 2008, 10:02 AM
Because there used to be an elevated highway than ran the full length of the waterfront. When most of that "scale-less crap" went up along the Hudson in mid-town it were hidden behind that roadway.

June 2nd, 2008, 10:34 PM
That area is now prime for development. I am amazed that the Chinese government hasn't redeveloped that crappy building yet. I hope that the ship terminals are razed and that all ships go from Brooklyn.

June 2nd, 2008, 10:41 PM
cheery as ever ^ :cool:

June 2nd, 2008, 10:42 PM
Do you disagree?

June 3rd, 2008, 03:50 AM
Yes I do. One of the things that makes Manhattan so exciting is because there are so many things going on, including passenger ships.

Getting rid of everything you don't personally use or like would make it one dull and dead place.

By the way, that Chinese Consulate & residence building is relatively new. They're not going to redevelop it anytime soon and even if they did, it's not likely to be that much better.

They're not Chinese for nothin'. ;)

June 6th, 2008, 08:21 AM
Chad Reed (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadreed/2542983311/sizes/l/)

June 8th, 2008, 12:03 PM
The glass looks drab and cheap in person. I find this whole stretch disgusting, a testament of what developers will do when noone is watching.



Two River Place
New York, NY

Architect: Costas Kondylis and Partners LLP

This new residential development consists of two rental towers encompasses approximately 1.1 million square feet as well as a separate 12-story building containing 78,000 square feet of affordable housing.

June 8th, 2008, 01:04 PM
Rising along the West 42nd Street Canyon...


View from southeast


View from south


June 8th, 2008, 01:05 PM
Corner of 41st & Eleventh


Street Wall on Eleventh


June 8th, 2008, 01:09 PM
Nice pics. At the least it takes attention away from River Place I and doesn't have any blank walls. When is the barren street level neighborhood of Far West 42nd going to catch up with all these new luxury high-rises?

June 8th, 2008, 01:13 PM
Nice pics BR. I guess it will look better when they cover up the exposed floor slabs. I don't like those a/c vents though.

June 18th, 2008, 01:15 AM
From today...



June 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM
~5 more floors to go by my count. Really wish they used a good curtain wall for this...

June 18th, 2008, 10:11 PM
Especially for the base, where it's most visible from streetlevel.

The tower portion they can go cheap like what they have now (cheap wiggly glass, AC vents, exposed floorplates) and I won't mind as much but that base has got to look better than it does now.

June 22nd, 2008, 09:16 PM
This little cluster at the end of 42nd is very impressive. Once 605 W 42md is done, this will be a rather exclusive hamlet in the sky.

July 3rd, 2008, 04:49 PM
it looks like the towers have now reached the setbacks toward the top

sorry no pictures

July 3rd, 2008, 06:48 PM
I hate Kondylis. He must be the most prolific high-rise architect ever in this city. SAD.






July 3rd, 2008, 07:35 PM
The city's once beautiful and classy landscape has definitely been taking a beating from the deadly foursome: Kaufman, O'Hara, Kondylis, Poon.

July 3rd, 2008, 07:40 PM
No, I wasn't talking about the cost to build it. They should be comparable.

Rather, I was questioning the financial feasibility of doing rentals versus condos.

How many months and years of rent do you have to collect in order to get back your investment, let alone turn a profit?

I know this is an old post, but it makes me a bit confused... By making it a rental building couldn't Silverstein (or any other developer for that matter) turn it into a condo building later and then sell it, and reap double rewards? Or are there regulations against that in New York?

It's quite common in Norway at least that developers set up new buildings as rentals for a good few years and then down the line convert either building or apartment by apartment to for-sale apts?

Just like I don't see any (financial) reason for a person to rent their apartment, I don't really see any pitfall for a developer to make their apartments rentals? No matter how you look at it a rent-situation is a win for the owner and a lose for the renter?

Of course if there is some building regulations where once a building has been made rental it has to stay that way of course. But even so, in the long scheme of things 20 years or so isn't that bad, even less so with good financing of the construction etc.

July 3rd, 2008, 07:49 PM
To answer your question Ken...

No, there isn't a law against converting a rental into condos later on (assuming the rental units aren't rent regulated as that will throw a whole different kink into the matter).

What I was talking about there was that condos = a quick return whereas rentals, like you said, you'd have to wait.

July 3rd, 2008, 07:54 PM
Ok, cool. appreciate the answer :)

July 13th, 2008, 09:14 PM



July 26th, 2008, 02:40 AM
July 25, 2008

(click on pic to open larger version)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2702134981_705ea34abd.jpg?v=0 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3035/2702134981_705ea34abd_b.jpg)
sabeth718 (http://flickr.com/photos/sabeth718/2702134981/)

August 3rd, 2008, 05:15 PM
The eastern tower now looks like it is - or is very close to being -topped off.

August 7th, 2008, 11:06 PM
pmarella (http://flickr.com/photos/pmarella/2740211669/)

August 8th, 2008, 01:52 AM
there's no reflection on that water lol

August 8th, 2008, 06:59 AM
A nice set of twins with Time Warner Center behind it.

August 8th, 2008, 12:49 PM
How it looks like from the roof of the Atelier across the street...

(click on pic to open larger version)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/2744030728_159664f0d8.jpg?v=0 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/2744030728_159664f0d8_b.jpg)
Michael Cory (http://flickr.com/photos/khouri/2744030728/)

August 10th, 2008, 01:02 PM
My little contribution from 08/09/08:



August 10th, 2008, 07:08 PM
A skybridge could have made things more interesting, like our own little, waterdowned Petronas Towers on the West Side.

August 11th, 2008, 09:05 PM
North Tower topped out. South Tower to be finished within the next 2 weeks. Here are some shots I took while on the 60th floor.