New York City Street Names

[JonnyMac]

I was perturbed when real estate companies change the name of Nathaniel Moore Street in Tribeca to North Moore Street, even though there was no official sanction to do so. *Because of the length of Mr. Moore's first name, the street signs simply state "N Moore." *In the same fashion that real estate interests created names such as SoHo, NoHo, DUMBO, TriBeca, wtc., they made up a more-catchy name to help sell or rent apartments and other properties. *Unfortunately, this made-up name disrespects one of our country's greatest Revolutionary War heroes, who was executed by the British after being captured and held prisoner on a ship in Brooklyn for several months. *While I do not know what to do to rectify this situation, if anything, I do want to let it be know through this forum that I resent the fact that real-estate interests are not only blighting some of New York City itself in a physical sense, but they are also demolishing history by re-writing it to serve their narrow interests. *That being said, does anyone else out there object to the creation of catchy-cutesy neighborhood names and morphing of street names for no other reason than to raise the prices of real estate? * * *

[Kris]

Isn't the city government responsible for street signs? I doubt it succumbed to pressure from the real estate industry in this case.

[JonnyMac]

The street sign remains the same, but real estate developers are calling their new buildings such thing as the NoMoore or the NorthMoore. *There is even a bar/restaurant called the NoMoore! *By inference, the real esate folks are changing the meaning of the sign that reads "N Moore" from Nathaniel Moore to North Moore. * When JFK, Jr. died, he had an apartment on N(athaniel) Moore Street that was reported in the papers as North Moore Street. *And when 9-11 happened, the papers mentioned the firehouse on the corner of N Moore and Varick Streets as being on North Moore and Varick. *So, you see what I'm sayuing is that the real estate interests have changed our perception of N Moore Street. *The reality is that while the street sign and the official name remain the same, people are obliterating the history and good memory of Nathaniel Moore by changing the interpretation of the sign the reads: "N Moore" *

[Kris]

I see. Yes, it's a shame. However I think SoHo and TriBeCa, for instance, may have received their new names from the artists who revitalized those areas before they were gentrified. Sometimes the name changes are disrespectful of history, sometimes they are simply an adaptation to the current identity of the place.

[JonnyMac]

Acronyms and abbreviations for almost everything seems to be the order of the day.

[billyblancoNYC]

I think SoHo and TriBeCa were given the names by artists, but all the "new" names were real estate all the way - NoHo, NoLita, SoHa, DUMBO. *It never ends. *Then there are all the names like Hudson Heights that are made up so it's not called Harlem. *It's pretty funny, but I guess it's interesting in some ways to have all these "new neighborhoods."

[Edward]

"Taking his cue from the names SoHo and TriBeCa, Mr. Walentas began to promote the name Dumbo. The neighborhood had always been known as Fulton Landing." See this thread (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=71).

By the end of the 1950s developers rejected the Hell's Kitchen designation in favor of a name resurrected from the past: Clinton, after former mayor and governor DeWitt Clinton.

[Eugenius]

Quote: from billyblancoNYC on 10:50 am on Jan. 27, 2003
I think SoHo and TriBeCa were given the names by artists, but all the "new" names were real estate all the way - NoHo, NoLita, SoHa, DUMBO. *It never ends. *Then there are all the names like Hudson Heights that are made up so it's not called Harlem. *It's pretty funny, but I guess it's interesting in some ways to have all these "new neighborhoods."
I haven't yet heard of "SoHa." *Is that South of Harlem?

[billyblancoNYC]

Yes, but I'm really not 100% sure what the boundaries are. I think it's on the west side, kinda by Morningside Heights.

Anyone know for sure?

[billyblancoNYC]

Here's one SoHa reference...

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0047/johnson.php

[JonnyMac]

There's a bar between 108th and 109th Streets on Amsterdam Avenue named SoHa for South of Harlem. *I grew up in the neighborhood and always assumed that Harlem went as far south as 110th Street on the East Side of Morningside Park. *As for the West side of the park, it was always called Morningside Heights. * Heading North on Amsterdam, I always thought Harlem began at 125th Street. * Other than that, I do not know the other boundaries for Harlem.

[Eugenius]

I thought that the Upper East Side ended at 96th Street. *What's between that and 110th? *Is it Spanish Harlem?

[JonnyMac]

On the far East Side between 96th and 116th, it is commonly Spanish Harlem. *However, as you go to the West Side, the lines blur. *Luxury buildings are now on the North Side of 96th at Third Avenue, and on the West Side there are now upper-middle-income buildings *on both sides of 110th Street at Central Park West. * Just as Chinatown took over most of Little Italy, apartment development for upper-middle-income and luxury apartment seems to be the order of the day, rather than preserving what remains of Harlem and Spanish Harlem. *I'm sorry that I don't know what the definitive border lines of these two areas really are. *

[Hof]

Why not dub Northern Manhattan as SoBro,and South Bronx as No Man?
We could refer to City Island as EBRON Isle,and the south of Brooklyn as SOB.There could be SOB Beach,the SOB Expressway,and businesses would use the area to develop trendy,thematic places like:SOB Pizza(where the waiters are real pricks),SOB Car Sales(you get a lousy deal and feel bad about it).
The SOB Police Department would arrest everybody,at least once,and be mean when they do their work.
East of East New York would be EEny,Manhattan becomes MANny;Queens,east of Manhattan,of course becomes QUEEny (take the QUEEny to the SOB,exit at the first LIE you come to) etc....

[NYatKNIGHT]

"...SOB Pizza(where the waiters are real pricks),.."

I like it, New York theme dining - you're onto something good there.

Or maybe you're on something good there. * ;)

[The Brain]

The area between CPW and 9th ave at 106th street is now being referred to as Mahattanville. I believe this was always until recently a part of traditional West Harlem. More real estate scum rewriting our culture. As far as Nathaniel Moore. Johnny is 100% correct. It is a collosal disrespect to the Great Nat Moore to have his name evaporated and gone unchecked by the new denizons of the area. In a city where Thallonius Monk the Jazz artist has a 20 letter street sign (W61st) Nat Greene goes undefended. By the way is there a "Moore st" that is south of Tri becka ?

[billyblancoNYC]

I heard thw worst one yet...

BoCoCa - Boerum Hill, CObble Hill, and Carroll Gardens.

There's actually a website (not too nad, though):

http://www.bococa.com/

[ZippyTheChimp]

I remember having debates about N.Moore St when Tribeca was called the Washington St Market. The pioneers who inhabited Tribeca as the food companies moved out get the credit for the name Tribeca. They were battling urban renewal (indepenence Plaza) and wanted to give the area an identity.

The Nathaniel Moore North Moore issue has more (no pun intended) to do with ignorance than a real-estate scheme. And the city is not without guilt:

http://www.pbase.com/image/14298521.jpg

And the proper historic signage
http://www.pbase.com/image/14298530.jpg

The restaurant with no sense of history
http://www.pbase.com/image/14298566.jpg

[cpv204]

The thrust of this argument assumes that the N. actually does stand for Nathaniel and not North. Is there any source to back this up?

This map from 1870 (http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Map/1870/1870.NYC.html) clearly shows the street called North Moore, so if it is a mistake, it's a mistake that was made more than 100 years ago.


Edited to update map link

[ZippyTheChimp]

There's a third component to this argument. Some say the street was named for Benjamin Moore (not the paint guy), president of Columbia University c 1800.

[cpv204]

I see!

I asked about this question over on gothamcenter.org (http://www.gothamcenter.org/discussions/viewthread.cfm?ID=709&ForumID=33) and got the following replies which seem to corroborate your version of the story, Zippy:

From Henry Moscow's GREAT book, The Street Book, . . .Manhattan's Street Names and their Origins:

Pg 79 - North Moore Street

"Namesake: Benjamin Moore . . . Episcopalian Bishop of New York and President of Columbia College from 1801 to 1811.
. . . Father of Clement C. Moore who wrote 'Twas the night Before Christmas' The Street is called North Moore to distinguish it from Moore Street."

pg 76

"Moore St. is no relative to North Moore Street. . . Moore St.'s name . . . is attributed almost certainly erroneously to a Col. John Moore.. . "

Older maps make this Moore St. "MOOR" street.

And just to add to the confusion, the Benjamin Moore mentioned above is NOT the paint guy. . .

This book is back in print and is a lot of fun.

and
I believe that the current N. Moore St. IS North Moore St. but on older maps there was ANOTHER Moore St. further downtown that was named after Nathaniel Moore.

(Edited by cpv204 at 9:18 am on June 4, 2003)

[ZippyTheChimp]

Thanks for the link. Nice site.

I love the ambiguity. Some businesses on the street list their address as xx Nathaniel Moore St.

[ZippyTheChimp]

According to several sources:

North Moore Street - This Tribeca cross street was named for Bishop Benjamin Moore, who served as the sixth rector of Trinity Church (from 1806 to 1816) and as president of King's College, which later became Columbia. The "North" was added later to eliminate confusion with the Financial District street of the same name.

The confusion arose because...

Moore Street - Before landfill changed the shape of Manhattan, Moore Street was the location where boats were moored. The final "e" was added to the name over time

[Merry]

I couldn't find another thread about street names.


April 20, 2009

Reliving the Sean Bell Case by Renaming a Street

By ANNE BARNARD (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/anne_barnard/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/20/nyregion/20bell_xl.jpg
William G. Bell, at Liverpool and 97th Streets in Queens, near where his son, Sean, was killed.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/20/nyregion/20bellB_normal.jpg
Street signs that memorialize two celebrities and two auxiliary officers.

New York politicians love to rename streets, and the battles that ensue range from the explosive to the mundane.

The City Council’s vote in 2007 to reject renaming a street in Bedford-Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, after the black activist Sonny Carson came closer to dividing the Council along racial lines than any issue that members could recall. On the other hand, when Rose Feiss, the founder of a lampshade factory, was honored in 1987 with an eponymous boulevard in the South Bronx, the main objection was that the change might confuse people looking for the former Walnut Street.

So William G. Bell is prepared for anything as he pushes for a Sean Bell (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/sean_bell/index.html?inline=nyt-per) Way in Jamaica, Queens. “I can’t get no more disappointed than what I already went through,” said Mr. Bell, who is seeking to rename several blocks of Liverpool Street for his son Sean, 23, who was killed there in a barrage of police bullets as he left a nightclub on what would have been his wedding day, Nov. 25, 2006.

Police officers testified that in a chaotic scene outside the club they believed that a friend of Sean Bell’s had a gun. No gun was found. When a Queens judge last year acquitted the three detectives involved, the decision spurred protests that led to hundreds of arrests.

But Mr. Bell’s campaign has proceeded largely without controversy.

Community Board 12, the neighborhood advisory body, approved the proposal on Wednesday, sending it on to the City Council, which will vote on a package of name changes later this year. The Council usually approves proposals backed, like Mr. Bell’s is, by the local community board and council member.

Still, street names resonate as symbols of identity. So the prospect of a Sean Bell Way — named for a man whose death renewed anger over police shootings of black men — has unleashed a flood of conflicting emotions.

“A small measure of justice for the Bell family,” said Shawn Williams, a crime victims’ advocate who has worked with the Bells on community projects, and who cried with them after the community board vote.

“Absurd,” countered Michael J. Palladino, the president of the Detectives’ Endowment Association, a police union. He noted that Mr. Bell’s blood-alcohol content was above the legal limit when his car hit a detective before the shooting.

On Liverpool Street, lined by neat, wood-framed houses and small front yards, a few residents balked at renaming it for the ugliest date in its history. But more relished the idea. “I think it’s good — so we can remember what happened,” said Esriee Seepersaud, 46, who drives a school bus.

Advocates of the renaming differ on the meaning of the move. Does it simply commemorate a tragedy and comfort a family? Or does it wrest from the city a new admission that the police did wrong?

The Bells’ city councilman, Leroy Comrie, said the proposed name change would not be an indictment of the police. “I’m not trying to condemn the police or say that Sean Bell was a saint, but I think that what happened there was a unique tragedy,” he said.

But for many of the scores of people who showed up from all over New York to support the Bell family at the community board hearing — some wearing T-shirts that read “I Am Sean Bell” in tall silver letters — the vote repudiated, in a small way, the acquittal of the police officers.

“The police were mostly responsible,” said Jamel McClain, 32, one of the members of the Escalade Krown Holdaz, a social club for sport utility vehicle owners, whose members arrived in force. “I feel like I am Sean Bell, because we are all black males.”

The proposal passed the community board, 30 to 2, with 5 abstentions.
The board chairwoman, Adjoa Gzifa, said she voted no because many young men die in shootings — including her own son, killed in a robbery in North Carolina.

“We have sewer problems, we have drainage problems, we have foreclosure problems, we have things that we need to be focusing on, and street renamings are not one of them,” she said.

She said she had no quarrel with the Bell family, but wanted to maintain a high bar for renaming streets, reserving the honor for those who have made significant contributions to the city.

But the annals of street renamings include both the hefty and the trivial.
And there is precedent for memorializing someone more for the manner of his death than for the grandeur of his achievements: Earlier this month, the Council approved (http://council.nyc.gov/downloads/pdf/spring_09_street_renaming.pdf) naming a street in Bushwick, Brooklyn, for Jose O. Sucuzhañay, an Ecuadorean immigrant beaten to death there last year.

Last month, part of 53rd Street in Manhattan was temporarily named U2 (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/u2/index.html?inline=nyt-org) Way in honor of the band’s appearance on “The Late Show With David Letterman (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/david_letterman/index.html?inline=nyt-per).” The actor Jerry Orbach (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/jerry_orbach/index.html?inline=nyt-per) got a corner in Midtown — not without a fight — but a proposed Big Pun Street in the Bronx for the rap MC Big Punisher was rejected over some of his lyrics.

Last week, a corner in Murray Hill in Manhattan was named for Jan Karski, a Polish diplomat who was the first person to bring news of the Holocaust to President Franklin D. Roosevelt (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/r/franklin_delano_roosevelt/index.html?inline=nyt-per).

Police officers and others who die in the line of duty are often honored. Two corners at Sullivan and Bleecker Streets in Greenwich Village were recently named for two police auxiliary officers, Eugene Marshalik and Nicholas T. Pekearo, killed nearby in 2007 as they chased a gunman.

Sometimes, opposition comes when it is least expected: Eric N. Gioia, a Queens councilman, encountered fierce community opposition to renaming a street for an advocate for Irish immigrants who died while serving in Iraq.
One critic worried that if streets were renamed for everyone who died in Iraq, street signs would look like totem poles, Mr. Gioia recalled. The proposal ultimately passed.

The Council battled over Sonny Carson, who once described himself as “antiwhite.” Only one white council member, Tony Avella, voted for the name change. Councilman Charles Barron (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/charles_barron/index.html?inline=nyt-per) recalled it as “the most racially divisive vote” he had seen in eight years on the Council.

At least navigational confusion is no longer an issue. Nowadays, in a gesture of mercy toward postal workers, the original street name stays, along with the new one.

But in 1903, a city councilman told The New York Times that a proposal to rename the Bowery — local merchants thought the name had unsavory connotations — had gone nowhere because soldiers and sailors would get lost looking for the famous party zone.

“The efficiency of the Army and Navy will be impaired,” the councilman lamented. “Change the flag of the country, but don’t change the name of the Bowery.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/nyregion/20bell.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

[NYatKNIGHT]

I'd remembered the thread "Nathaniel Moore - Street Names", so I merged them.

[Merry]

I'd remembered the thread "Nathaniel Moore - Street Names", so I merged them.

Thanks, NY@K, I was going to put it here but thought the original title was too specific.