Nathaniel Moore - Street Names

[JonnyMac]

I was perturbed when real estate companies change the name of Nathaniel Moore Street in Tribeca to North Moore Street, even though there was no official sanction to do so. *Because of the length of Mr. Moore's first name, the street signs simply state "N Moore." *In the same fashion that real estate interests created names such as SoHo, NoHo, DUMBO, TriBeca, wtc., they made up a more-catchy name to help sell or rent apartments and other properties. *Unfortunately, this made-up name disrespects one of our country's greatest Revolutionary War heroes, who was executed by the British after being captured and held prisoner on a ship in Brooklyn for several months. *While I do not know what to do to rectify this situation, if anything, I do want to let it be know through this forum that I resent the fact that real-estate interests are not only blighting some of New York City itself in a physical sense, but they are also demolishing history by re-writing it to serve their narrow interests. *That being said, does anyone else out there object to the creation of catchy-cutesy neighborhood names and morphing of street names for no other reason than to raise the prices of real estate? * * *

[Kris]

Isn't the city government responsible for street signs? I doubt it succumbed to pressure from the real estate industry in this case.

[JonnyMac]

The street sign remains the same, but real estate developers are calling their new buildings such thing as the NoMoore or the NorthMoore. *There is even a bar/restaurant called the NoMoore! *By inference, the real esate folks are changing the meaning of the sign that reads "N Moore" from Nathaniel Moore to North Moore. * When JFK, Jr. died, he had an apartment on N(athaniel) Moore Street that was reported in the papers as North Moore Street. *And when 9-11 happened, the papers mentioned the firehouse on the corner of N Moore and Varick Streets as being on North Moore and Varick. *So, you see what I'm sayuing is that the real estate interests have changed our perception of N Moore Street. *The reality is that while the street sign and the official name remain the same, people are obliterating the history and good memory of Nathaniel Moore by changing the interpretation of the sign the reads: "N Moore" *

[Kris]

I see. Yes, it's a shame. However I think SoHo and TriBeCa, for instance, may have received their new names from the artists who revitalized those areas before they were gentrified. Sometimes the name changes are disrespectful of history, sometimes they are simply an adaptation to the current identity of the place.

[JonnyMac]

Acronyms and abbreviations for almost everything seems to be the order of the day.

[billyblancoNYC]

I think SoHo and TriBeCa were given the names by artists, but all the "new" names were real estate all the way - NoHo, NoLita, SoHa, DUMBO. *It never ends. *Then there are all the names like Hudson Heights that are made up so it's not called Harlem. *It's pretty funny, but I guess it's interesting in some ways to have all these "new neighborhoods."

[Edward]

"Taking his cue from the names SoHo and TriBeCa, Mr. Walentas began to promote the name Dumbo. The neighborhood had always been known as Fulton Landing." See this thread (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=71).

By the end of the 1950s developers rejected the Hell's Kitchen designation in favor of a name resurrected from the past: Clinton, after former mayor and governor DeWitt Clinton.

[Eugenius]

Quote: from billyblancoNYC on 10:50 am on Jan. 27, 2003
I think SoHo and TriBeCa were given the names by artists, but all the "new" names were real estate all the way - NoHo, NoLita, SoHa, DUMBO. *It never ends. *Then there are all the names like Hudson Heights that are made up so it's not called Harlem. *It's pretty funny, but I guess it's interesting in some ways to have all these "new neighborhoods."
I haven't yet heard of "SoHa." *Is that South of Harlem?

[billyblancoNYC]

Yes, but I'm really not 100% sure what the boundaries are. I think it's on the west side, kinda by Morningside Heights.

Anyone know for sure?

[billyblancoNYC]

Here's one SoHa reference...

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0047/johnson.php

[JonnyMac]

There's a bar between 108th and 109th Streets on Amsterdam Avenue named SoHa for South of Harlem. *I grew up in the neighborhood and always assumed that Harlem went as far south as 110th Street on the East Side of Morningside Park. *As for the West side of the park, it was always called Morningside Heights. * Heading North on Amsterdam, I always thought Harlem began at 125th Street. * Other than that, I do not know the other boundaries for Harlem.

[Eugenius]

I thought that the Upper East Side ended at 96th Street. *What's between that and 110th? *Is it Spanish Harlem?

[JonnyMac]

On the far East Side between 96th and 116th, it is commonly Spanish Harlem. *However, as you go to the West Side, the lines blur. *Luxury buildings are now on the North Side of 96th at Third Avenue, and on the West Side there are now upper-middle-income buildings *on both sides of 110th Street at Central Park West. * Just as Chinatown took over most of Little Italy, apartment development for upper-middle-income and luxury apartment seems to be the order of the day, rather than preserving what remains of Harlem and Spanish Harlem. *I'm sorry that I don't know what the definitive border lines of these two areas really are. *

[Hof]

Why not dub Northern Manhattan as SoBro,and South Bronx as No Man?
We could refer to City Island as EBRON Isle,and the south of Brooklyn as SOB.There could be SOB Beach,the SOB Expressway,and businesses would use the area to develop trendy,thematic places like:SOB Pizza(where the waiters are real pricks),SOB Car Sales(you get a lousy deal and feel bad about it).
The SOB Police Department would arrest everybody,at least once,and be mean when they do their work.
East of East New York would be EEny,Manhattan becomes MANny;Queens,east of Manhattan,of course becomes QUEEny (take the QUEEny to the SOB,exit at the first LIE you come to) etc....

[NYatKNIGHT]

"...SOB Pizza(where the waiters are real pricks),.."

I like it, New York theme dining - you're onto something good there.

Or maybe you're on something good there. * ;)

[The Brain]

The area between CPW and 9th ave at 106th street is now being referred to as Mahattanville. I believe this was always until recently a part of traditional West Harlem. More real estate scum rewriting our culture. As far as Nathaniel Moore. Johnny is 100% correct. It is a collosal disrespect to the Great Nat Moore to have his name evaporated and gone unchecked by the new denizons of the area. In a city where Thallonius Monk the Jazz artist has a 20 letter street sign (W61st) Nat Greene goes undefended. By the way is there a "Moore st" that is south of Tri becka ?

[billyblancoNYC]

I heard thw worst one yet...

BoCoCa - Boerum Hill, CObble Hill, and Carroll Gardens.

There's actually a website (not too nad, though):

http://www.bococa.com/

[ZippyTheChimp]

I remember having debates about N.Moore St when Tribeca was called the Washington St Market. The pioneers who inhabited Tribeca as the food companies moved out get the credit for the name Tribeca. They were battling urban renewal (indepenence Plaza) and wanted to give the area an identity.

The Nathaniel Moore North Moore issue has more (no pun intended) to do with ignorance than a real-estate scheme. And the city is not without guilt:

http://www.pbase.com/image/14298521.jpg

And the proper historic signage
http://www.pbase.com/image/14298530.jpg

The restaurant with no sense of history
http://www.pbase.com/image/14298566.jpg

[cpv204]

The thrust of this argument assumes that the N. actually does stand for Nathaniel and not North. Is there any source to back this up?

This map from 1870 (http://www.bklyn-genealogy-info.com/Map/1870/1870.NYC.html) clearly shows the street called North Moore, so if it is a mistake, it's a mistake that was made more than 100 years ago.


Edited to update map link

[ZippyTheChimp]

There's a third component to this argument. Some say the street was named for Benjamin Moore (not the paint guy), president of Columbia University c 1800.

[cpv204]

I see!

I asked about this question over on gothamcenter.org (http://www.gothamcenter.org/discussions/viewthread.cfm?ID=709&ForumID=33) and got the following replies which seem to corroborate your version of the story, Zippy:

From Henry Moscow's GREAT book, The Street Book, . . .Manhattan's Street Names and their Origins:

Pg 79 - North Moore Street

"Namesake: Benjamin Moore . . . Episcopalian Bishop of New York and President of Columbia College from 1801 to 1811.
. . . Father of Clement C. Moore who wrote 'Twas the night Before Christmas' The Street is called North Moore to distinguish it from Moore Street."

pg 76

"Moore St. is no relative to North Moore Street. . . Moore St.'s name . . . is attributed almost certainly erroneously to a Col. John Moore.. . "

Older maps make this Moore St. "MOOR" street.

And just to add to the confusion, the Benjamin Moore mentioned above is NOT the paint guy. . .

This book is back in print and is a lot of fun.

and
I believe that the current N. Moore St. IS North Moore St. but on older maps there was ANOTHER Moore St. further downtown that was named after Nathaniel Moore.

(Edited by cpv204 at 9:18 am on June 4, 2003)

[ZippyTheChimp]

Thanks for the link. Nice site.

I love the ambiguity. Some businesses on the street list their address as xx Nathaniel Moore St.

[ZippyTheChimp]

According to several sources:

North Moore Street - This Tribeca cross street was named for Bishop Benjamin Moore, who served as the sixth rector of Trinity Church (from 1806 to 1816) and as president of King's College, which later became Columbia. The "North" was added later to eliminate confusion with the Financial District street of the same name.

The confusion arose because...

Moore Street - Before landfill changed the shape of Manhattan, Moore Street was the location where boats were moored. The final "e" was added to the name over time