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muscle1313
July 10th, 2003, 06:19 PM
There is an article in this weeks Bay News

My Summary


Palm Shore coming down and condos are going up there. Big article on beautiful waterfront condos being built at the old cabana site and across the street as well. As a Bay condo owner I am thrilled with these new construction projects. *Pricing for the condos across the
street from Palm Shore should be between $380 - 410,000 accordingto the Bay News. I am hoping Palm Shore condos are going to be as nice as the new Oceana condos in Brighton. Oceana has some units selling for over $1.2 million!!!

Gulcrapek
July 10th, 2003, 08:36 PM
1) Oceana is unspeakable. Never mention it again.

2) Where does it say beautiful?

I saw the old building coming down on Saturday. It was kind of a landmark but I guess I won't be sad about its departure.

muscle1313
July 10th, 2003, 11:19 PM
Wow I think the Oceana condos are absolutely awesome for Brighton. 15 buildings with *outdoor pools and an indoor pools. $1.2 mill for penthouses. Its about time our waterfront got some luxury living. Joshua Muss did a great thing for Brighton Beach. I hope Palm Shore turns out that good.

Gulcrapek
July 10th, 2003, 11:31 PM
I wasn't dissing the upscale nature, but rather the architecture.

billyblancoNYC
July 11th, 2003, 12:12 AM
Are there any more details about this?

Kris
July 11th, 2003, 05:56 PM
Oceana is a gated communiy in one of the most vibrant neighborhoods of Brooklyn, which speaks for itself. Snobby and exclusive.

billyblancoNYC
July 11th, 2003, 06:03 PM
I meant details on the new condos. *I know of Oceana.

Kris
July 11th, 2003, 07:59 PM
I was responding to Gulcrapek.

muscle1313
July 11th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Details on the Sheepshead condos

Palm Shore - 75 units * *Maximillion condo - not sure


Excerpts From the Bay News

According to architects for the project, the new development will consist of a 3 story, multiple family building followed by smaller one and two family attached houses built in a continuous wave from the bay.

The tallest part of the development- being built as of right - will reportedly stand no taller than the existing 35 ft tall Palm Shore Club.

"Its going to be an exciting project, " said architect Elana Kalman. We will have a visual corridor that will open it up for everyone driving along Emmons Ave. People will be able to see the bay, which is now blocked by the existing building."

Existing plans for the new development now call for a 66 space enclosed parking garage built under the multiple dwelling unit.

Another 3 story condoinium development consisting of 2 and 3 bedroom apartments is in the works directly across the street.

That project will reportedly be able to accomodate one parking spot for each condo unit in a spot accessed from Ford Street.

According to a spokesperson for Maximillion Realty, the condos will cost anywhere form $380,000 to $410,000.

Jacob Pinson (developer of the Palm Shore condo on pricing for that condo) - "Thats a little bit early for me to say... it'll be whatever the market is willing to pay , obviously"

Those who do move will be paying for a view of Sheepshead Bay.

The old Palm Shore Club was built very close to Emmons Ave, with many small cabanas located in the back of the property.

Project architects say the houses will be "more elongated" and "perpendicular" to Emmons Ave.

The property is over 200 feet deep

"We have a west wing and and east wing," said Kalman. The westen wing consists of 13 two family houses and they are approved completely. The zoning is approved for the other part but the Buildings Dept hasn't looked at it yet.



(Edited by muscle1313 at 8:52 pm on July 11, 2003)

Gulcrapek
July 11th, 2003, 11:01 PM
Christian, again, I agree with you - what I said was that it's upscale. Nothing more.

And you should only know about the snobiness... I won't say more because it borders on racism, but I'll just say the people who live there tend to be loud, snobby, and obnoxious.

muscle1313
July 21st, 2003, 10:03 PM
An Unlikely Contender in a Developers' Beauty Contest
THE NEW YORK TIMES
May 25, 2003

By TARA BAHRAMPOUR
The New York Times


Earlier this year, when the National Association of Home Builders announced the five finalists for its 2003 award for the country's best for-sale housing community, most contenders were from places like Carmel-by-the-Sea, Calif., and Bonita Springs, Fla.

But one had a grittier provenance: Brooklyn, N.Y. That development, the Oceana Condominium and Club in Brighton Beach, is, in fact, the only finalist from New York City to be found among all 31 award categories - from best loft development to best garden apartment community - that the association has created.

The project, still under construction, will have 16 buildings with 850 apartments along the oceanfront where the Brighton Beach Baths long stood. The Muss Development Company of Forest Hills, Queens, is building the $250 million complex.

Today, it is a gated, landscaped complex with a gym, a large lawn, and indoor and outdoor swimming pools. With red brick exteriors and decorative cement globes, the design is meant to evoke traditional Brooklyn housing, but among the more modest buildings of Brighton Beach, it stands out like a gleaming resort.

When luxury housing was first proposed for the site, some people argued that local residents would be priced out. After some concessions, like lower building heights (they now range from 7 to 12 stories), Community Board 13 supported the plan.

At $400,000 for a two-bedroom apartment and $1.2 million for a four-bedroom waterfront penthouse with a large terrace, the condominiums are still out of reach for many local residents. But two-thirds of the apartments have been sold so far, said Diana Jabber, senior vice president of the development company.

Manuel Chiuten, a plastic surgeon from the Philippines, moved into the complex with his wife three years ago; since then they have bought two more units there.

"We used to go to the beach often, then we saw the sign," he said, referring to a billboard that presented a rendering of the complex to passers-by on Brighton Beach Avenue. His wife, who is from Ukraine, said the area reminded her of childhood vacations on the Black Sea.

Oceana did not win the home builders award. But Ms. Jabber was not too disappointed, considering the competition.

"These are these beautiful places that they put up in Carmel, Arizona, Florida, where you have these exquisite golf resorts," she said. "For a Northeastern urban community to get this far - it's just not done here very often."

Gulcrapek
July 21st, 2003, 10:15 PM
Oceana is more modest than any of the surrounding buildings. And it's not red brick, it's painted concrete.

Beautiful my ass.

muscle1313
July 21st, 2003, 10:21 PM
Knew you would disagree but thought it was an interesting article. Rumor has it that the new Sheepshead condos at the old Palm Shore site will be called Seaview Gardens. I hope they are as expensive as the Oceana condos. Great for the neighborhood.

Gulcrapek
July 21st, 2003, 10:48 PM
It was an interesting article. I hope you didn't take any offense or anything lol, I don't kill the messenger ;) .

muscle1313
July 21st, 2003, 10:59 PM
No offense taken at all. I agree with just about all of your posts. I have been following this board for a long time. You guys cover Brooklyn development like nobody else.

muscle1313
July 26th, 2003, 05:38 PM
Today a sign went up on Emmons and Nostrand Avenue right next to Il
Forneto (Italian Restaurant with water view) saying coming soon "The
Marina - luxury residence" and it looks like they are building
something right across the street too. Thats in addition to the 2
condo developments being built 4 blocks down at the old Palm Shore
Cabana and directly across. Sheepshead Bay condo development taking
off right on the water on Emmons!

Gulcrapek
July 26th, 2003, 07:42 PM
There's also a 6 story building going up next to the Belt Pkwy somewhere around there.

muscle1313
July 27th, 2003, 11:13 PM
Yes that 6 story building is around Bedford Ave right off Emmons. Its almost complete, as is the Comfort Inn on Emmons near Knapp Street. *With these 4 or 5 new condo developments and a hotel as well I would have to say that Emmons Avenue on the Bay is just about exploding with new development. I like what I am seeing.

Gulcrapek
July 28th, 2003, 12:02 AM
Me too. The Comfort Inn isn't the best piece of architecture, but I supppose it's better than what I expected.

muscle1313
August 17th, 2003, 06:52 PM
Another Hotel construction on Emmons Ave in Sheepshead Bay. This new construction will be just a few blocks from the new Comfort Inn. A work permit was posted yesterday at the site at Emmons and Nostrand. Permit says Hotel. Anybody know which hotel chain this will be?? Days Inn perhaps? Maybe even The Marriott??? Anybody got info?

muscle1313
September 2nd, 2003, 08:46 PM
Palm Shore Condos -

Just talked to the realtor- Wilk Real Estate. There will be 2 and 3
bedroom duplexes with a marina. A pool to go in 2 years out. The 2
bedroom units will go from $390,000 to $550,000. The 3 bedroom units
will start at 700 grand and go all the way up to $1.2 million near
the marina! Those are Oceana condo type prices. $1.2 million for a
condo in Sheepshead Bay! I love it!!!!

Realtor said 77 units, townhouse type buildings no higher than 3
stories and he said nicer than Oceana. Wow!

Gulcrapek
September 2nd, 2003, 08:48 PM
Thanks for the info. I like the marina idea, I don't think there are any docks there right now.

I hope it's nicer than Oceana in architectural terms.

muscle1313
September 2nd, 2003, 08:58 PM
Gulcrapek - Did you see they started building the condos right across the street from Palm Shore. Also down that block a sign went up at the closed Castle Harbor Restaurant with a picture of new luxury condos - 2 bedroom duplexes and 3 and 4 bedroom penthouses. I heard 700 grand for the penthouses. Tell me what you think of the rendering when you see it.

Also have you heard anything about the hotel going up at Emmons and Nostrand Ave?

(Edited by muscle1313 at 9:01 pm on Sep. 2, 2003)

Gulcrapek
September 2nd, 2003, 09:13 PM
Nope, nothing, you were my first source. I saw the condos across the street from PS, the permit said 3 floors.

Also, there's a new 6 floor building nearing completion on Sheepshead Bay Road and E14 that looks pretty nice. My only complaint is the bare sides. The front facade is nice. Here's a pic from two months ago, they've since finished the top and painted the cinderblock.

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/album09/sheepsheadjul.sized.jpg

And a block away between there and the subway station, there's going to be a new 5 story office building. Rendering is on site, all floors have continuous ribbons of windows.

(Edited by Gulcrapek at 9:15 pm on Sep. 2, 2003)

billyblancoNYC
September 3rd, 2003, 08:57 AM
Love to see the Brooklyn renaissance spread so far south. *

Gulcrapek
September 3rd, 2003, 01:10 PM
Well, it's more like a boom; the area was pretty good from the start.

billyblancoNYC
September 3rd, 2003, 02:02 PM
True enough. *Many Brownstone areas are in a renaissance.

muscle1313
September 8th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Checked out the permit at the Hotel construction site on Nostrand and Emmons. Says 4 stories which would make it taller than the Comfort Inn a few blocks away. Dieing to know whats being planned there.

Got an email from the architect of the Palm Shore condos --

The pool is a part of a second phase of
the project, and at this point is planned and will go through approvals in spring
of 04.

Gulcrapek
September 8th, 2003, 08:06 PM
I saw something a long time ago about a 100 room hotel there. That's probably it.

muscle1313
September 8th, 2003, 10:24 PM
Palm Shore condos - Architect said there will eventually be a rendering on her website. Tentative name of the development - "The Breakers"

Here is her website

http://www.kalmandesign.com/

billyblancoNYC
September 9th, 2003, 10:03 AM
Um... isn't that a mansion in Newport, RI? They should think of a better, perhaps more original, name.

A complex like Oceana would be cool, though.

muscle1313
September 11th, 2003, 05:52 PM
This week's Bay News has an article on the new Hotel being built on Emmons and Nostrand. Not much info only that its going to be 4 stories, its being built "as of right" and it may be a motel not a hotel. Basically nobody knows much about it and the community is concerned. I guess I am the only one who thinks hotels are good for a neighborhood. People against Kings Plaza expanding, people against hotel development, people against arena development in Brooklyn. Maybe people like living on farms. I don't.

Gulcrapek
September 11th, 2003, 07:37 PM
The Kings Plaza one isn't good and neither is having something built if you have no idea what it is.

muscle1313
September 11th, 2003, 08:41 PM
Kings Plaza expansion is excellent. It needs to be much bigger to compete with Staten Island Mall, and Roosevelt Field in LI. More retail, big movie theater, restaurants. Definitely in favor of it.

In the Bay News it says residents are against the hotel/motel because its 4 stories and it will cutdown sunlight and air and change the "character"of the neighborhood. Give me a break. I say knock down all the ridiculous little bungalows there and build a block of hotels. If you want to live in Bungalows live in the country. This is Brooklyn!

These anti-development people are living on another planet as far as I am concerned. I am all for big business.

Gulcrapek
September 11th, 2003, 10:11 PM
I wasn't knocking the hotel on the grounds of its height (whose counterargument is ridiculous, if they're not blind the residents can spot the two 7 story buildings going up nearby), I was against building something without having a clue as to what it will be.

As for KP, the expansion is based on a huge, corporate Loews with megaparking. Brooklyn is getting more shopping anyway, with Gateway Center (sadly), Atlantic Terminal, and improvements on Fulton St.

muscle1313
September 12th, 2003, 06:27 AM
Kings Plaza was "the place" to shop in Brooklyn in the 70s and 80s. The fact that there is more shopping in other parts of Brooklyn now only underscores the fact that the Plaza needs to get bigger to compete. My hope is for the Plaza to become the destination that it once was for all of South Brooklyn. Everybody and I mean everybody used to shop there. It was synonomous with Brooklyn. You lived here you shopped at the Plaza, you didn't go to LI or SI.

muscle1313
October 7th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Spoke with the demolition crew working on the property next door to Roll-N-Roaster. They told me more condos going up on that site. Thats right next to the new hotel construction site on Emmons and Nostrand. Something is going on at the old Bay Casino building next to the new Comfort Inn. I heard a restaurant, somebody else told me more condos. By my count we got 6 or 7 new condo construction sites on Emmons and 2 hotel construction sites. Never have seen this type of activity in Sheepshead Bay ever. A century ago Emmons Ave was known as "Millionaires Row". Looks like its heading there again.

Oh by the way passed by the Oceana condos in Brighton this weekend. Prices went up to over $1.5 mil! Wow!

billyblancoNYC
October 7th, 2003, 02:06 PM
This is good news. Do any of the buldings look good, or are they basic brick boxes? How tall are they? Waterfront?

Gulcrapek
October 7th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Oceana is 7 and 12 story buildings which are very painted concrete-PoMo... they're in Brighton Beach though.

Most of the new Sheepshead condos are decent, though one new one sticks out like a sore thumb (boring tan brick, visible fire escapes etc). Nothing with fantastic architecture though.

muscle1313
October 7th, 2003, 05:46 PM
All the condo complexes and the 2 hotels being built on Emmons will have water views. They are either right on the water (Palm Shore condos, another condo called "The Marina", Comfort Inn hotel) or across the street from the Bay with terraces facing the ocean. I counted 6 condo construction sites today. I also saw the work permit went up at the old Bay Casino building today and it says restaurants. Not gonna be condos there and I am glad because its sits right next door to the Comfort Inn and what better place to put a big restaurant then next door to a hotel.

muscle1313
October 7th, 2003, 06:00 PM
Here is a link to the Oceana condos in Brighton. I know Gulcrapek doesn't like the architecture but I think this complex is singlehandedly changing the image of South Brooklyn waterfront property. For condos to be selling in excess of 1.5 million dollars in South Brooklyn is amazing and Joshua Muss should be commended for what he has built. I actually saw people taking pictures of this development this past weekend on the boardwalk.

http://www.oceanausa.com/index_flash.html

ablarc
October 7th, 2003, 07:39 PM
Very nice. Why move to Florida?

muscle1313
October 9th, 2003, 04:50 PM
New Hotel on Emmons will be a Best Western. Few blocks away from the new Comfort Inn.

billyblancoNYC
October 9th, 2003, 05:48 PM
I like Oceana, the whole concept of the community on the beach. NYC needs more of this. Would like to see some more tall, glass condos reflecting the sun, sand, and sea, though, but first things first...

Gulcrapek
October 9th, 2003, 05:53 PM
Yes... I'm going to write a letter about that...

And thanks Mr. Muscle about the info.

muscle1313
October 13th, 2003, 02:33 PM
Brooklyn Skyline

10/13/03
By Elisha Pappacoda

You'd think Emmons Avenue was the new Times Square with all the motels springing up along this strip of Sheepshead Bay shoreline.

A new Best Western motel is set for construction on the corner of Emmons and Nostrand avenues, with residents wondering why the neighborhood needs yet another lodge and what new — or old — problems it will bring.

The three-story motel will be erected just a few blocks away from the Windjammer, a notorious hooker hot-spot, and another hotel was recently built directly in front of it.

Neighbors are worried the Best Western could turn into housing for the homeless if business fails, and lack of parking is always been an issue in the Bay.

"A lot of people were very concerned that if it doesn't do well it might turn into a welfare hotel and they [the developer] said no, it wont turn into that — but who knows for sure?," said Josie Binckes, president of the Plumb Beach/Sheepshead Bay Civic Association. Binckes recently led a meeting where neighbors voiced concerns to developer Sailesh Gandhi and architect Gerald Caliendo.

The project is considered "as-of-right," meaning it already conforms to existing zoning standards.

"It's as of right — they could have built a 7-11 there, they could have a White Castle," said Community Board 15 member Ed Eisenberg, who attended the meeting.

"I'm thrilled that they [Best Western] came before us — it's gotta be monitored carefully, but all in all I think it's going to be good for the neighborhood if it's done properly," said Eisenberg, who thinks the motel could spark a "renaissance" of the Bay.

"We have always said we need people in Sheepshead Bay," he said.

"We need business down here — we need money."

Binckes said she wasn't sure if the motel is a good idea.

"It's overcrowded, the neighborhood, already — it's just crazy," she said. "We'll see what happens."

But Binckes did say she felt the developer and architect were very forthcoming and even toured the site with neighbors, asking about their properties, sewers and blockage of light in their home.

The Best Western will have 48 rooms and 48 parking spots and will ideally be used by travelers flying to and from JFK and La Guardia airports.

"They [the developers] believe that they can get people that are coming from the airports and have them stay here because it's cheaper in Brooklyn for a hotel than it is in Manhattan," Binckes said. "They did a study — they said they think it should work."

muscle1313
October 13th, 2003, 02:45 PM
Found another big condo construction site right off Emmons on Batchelder St behind the Japenese restaurant on Emmons. That makes 7 condo construction sites and 2 hotel development sites on the Bay. South Brooklyn Rocks!

Gulcrapek
October 13th, 2003, 03:56 PM
You mean the same block as the new 3 story one?

Poh-sih-tivity. Goodie.

TLOZ Link5
October 13th, 2003, 05:34 PM
Very nice. Why move to Florida?

Why do that when now you can just move to Brooklyn? :wink:

muscle1313
October 13th, 2003, 06:02 PM
You mean the same block as the new 3 story one?

Poh-sih-tivity. Goodie.

I think its the same block or 1 down. Its right behind a Japanese restaurant named Hoikado or something like that so its just off Emmons. Its going to be a luxury 3 story condo with jacuzzis and the rendering of the condo is blue colored which is really cool looking.

Gulcrapek
October 13th, 2003, 06:46 PM
Blue?? I gotta see this...

TLOZ Link5
October 13th, 2003, 07:10 PM
Hokkaido, I believe. That's the northernmost of the four big islands of Japan.

muscle1313
October 13th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Hokkaido, I believe. That's the northernmost of the four big islands of Japan.

Yep you are correct on the name.

Gulcrapek - I just took a walk there. Its right around the corner from the other 3 story condo construction. Its not big like I thought when I drove by there earlier today, but the rendering is a 3 story ocean blue condo. Really cool looking. Go check it out.

muscle1313
November 3rd, 2003, 07:41 PM
Brighton Beach Beauties

Muss Development Puts Finishing Touches on Oceana Condomiums

By Amy S. Choi

The $250 million project is being lauded as one of the most
successful for-sale residential projects in New York City.
Brighton Beach residents purchasing a home in the Oceana Condominium
and Club aren't just buying a condo.

"There are all kinds of amenities in the buildings," said Jason Muss
of Muss Development Co., the developer of the site in conjunction
with the Carlyle Group LLC. "There is a new outdoor and indoor pool,
a clubhouse and a complete health club with classes including karate
and yoga. It really is a lifestyle that people are buying into."

In May, Oceana was selected as a "Best For Sale Housing Community in
America" in the National Association of Builders 2003 "Pillars of the
Industry" awards. The $250 million project, designed by San Francisco-
based SB Architects and New York City-based Schuman, Lichtenstein,
Claman & Efron Architects, is now lauded as one of the most
successful for-sale residential projects in New York City.

Still, the development process didn't come easily. Muss Development
worked on getting approvals from the city for more than two years
before it was able to go into the ground with the first building in
1999.

In order to develop on the site, which was a former public recreation
facility that had been unused for many years, the company had to
construct new infrastructure to support 850 families in 16 buildings
and the new streetscape.

All new sewer, water, electric, communications, lighting and
emergency systems were installed as the buildings were going up.
Families began moving in as soon as the properties were finished.
Units range from 1,069 to 2,016 sq. ft. and will sell for between
$410,000 to $1.22 million.

"We had to make it safe for people to live directly adjacent to the
construction areas," said Robert Stern, project executive and senior
vice president at Muss Development. "We also wanted to have all of
the community areas ready for the first group of people moving in, so
we had that all completed a year earlier than we were otherwise
required to do."

Currently, there are nine completed buildings. The company has
started the superstructure and foundation for the 10th and 11th
buildings, and is now selling the condominiums in the 12th building.
Despite the difficulties of moving families in during the
construction process, Muss Development has been able to incorporate
new ideas into the design as the development progressed.

In later buildings, for example, the developer switched to poured
concrete from planks, which were used in the first four properties.
By doing so, it created more efficiency in the apartments and can
build faster.

"We've been able to make certain changes as we've learned, such as
adding more glass to certain portions of the apartments so they have
better views of the ocean or of the New York skyline, or upgrading
the finishes and adding more marble in the bathrooms of the condos,"
Stern said.

"We've responded to our purchasers as we move from building to
building. I would say this project is a perfect example of evolving
design."


http://newyork.construction.com/features/archive/0311_Cover_E.asp

muscle1313
November 6th, 2003, 07:24 PM
Add another condo complex construction to the list on Emmons Ave. Thats #8 and its going to be a big one right next door to Bay Plaza restaurant. 2 & 3 bedroom luxury condos on 1 and 2 levels.

Gulcrapek
November 6th, 2003, 07:54 PM
How many floors?

muscle1313
November 6th, 2003, 08:20 PM
Don't know yet. Looks like its going to take up most of E29th St between Shore Parkway and Emmons going right into what was a portion of Bay Plaza's parking lot

muscle1313
November 6th, 2003, 08:23 PM
Gulcrapek did you see the rendering of the Blue condo yet? That construction is starting to grow bigger

Gulcrapek
November 6th, 2003, 08:28 PM
No :?

I haven't been to Emmons in a long time...

muscle1313
November 9th, 2003, 07:05 PM
How many floors?

3 floors. Don't know how many buildings though. 2 and 3 bedroom luxury apartments - 2 balconies, 2 baths, garage

muscle1313
February 8th, 2004, 01:16 AM
Brooklyn Daily Eagle

Development On Emmons Avenue to Include Marina
by Linda Collins (linda@brooklyneagle.net), published online 12-26-
2003


Indoor Pool, Marina, Jet Ski Dock, Water Views, Restaurant

SHEEPSHEAD BAY — "We will be targeting a special kind of market,"
said developer Alon Even-Har, of his family's waterfront development
in Sheepshead Bay.

Obviously, that special market will include those who want
unobstructed water views from their custom-built condominium, a lot
of open space, private entrances to their units, private access to a
marina, and to a spa that includes an indoor pool.

"It will be very, very high end and it's going to look very
European," he added, describing a large open piazza that is planned
for the side of the project facing the street.

The development, at 2908 Emmons Ave., will be called "The Marina at
Sheepshead Bay." It combines two commercial spaces — a large one
where a restaurant is planned and a smaller one that could be a
store — along with the 19 residential units, as well as the spa that
will have saunas, an exercise room and an indoor swimming pool, and
the marina that will have spaces for jet skis as well as boats.

The design is by Scarano & Associates Architects, with a design team
that included Robert Scarano Jr. and Alexander Zhitnik.

"We were going for a modern clean look with traditional elements,"
said Scarano, who added that "the project was developed around the
idea of creating two public spaces: one facing the street, the other
facing the waterfront and marina."

There will be about 57,000 square feet of building space on four
levels, he explained, which does allow for a lot of outdoor space on
the 10,000-square-foot odd-size lot that is wider at the waterfront
than at the street.

The odd shape of the lot and the restriction on height (the property
is within the Sheepshead Bay Special District) created a challenge
for the architects.

"We wanted a view for everybody, we needed to build low, we wanted
the maximum density, and we wanted to give something to the street,"
said design team member Zhitnik. "It was challenging, too, because we
wanted open space."

The residential building ended up being K-shaped, according to
Zhitnik, and with a varity of layouts for the units, which include
triplexes, duplexes with private rooftop patios, and apartments. The
public piazza that faces the street is above the spa; the tenants'
deck that faces the water is above the parking garage (with two
parking spaces per condo). The garage and deck will be built out over
the water.

"We are actually creating a boat," Zhitnik said.

Units will range in size from 800 to 1,200 square feet for the four
apartments; and from 2,500 to 3,000 square feet for the 15 triplexes
and duplexes.

Besides views from every unit, there will be fireplaces in every
unit, floor-to-ceiling windows, French balconies, wood floors,
laundry rooms and top-of-the-line appliances and countertops.
Construction is also creating a challenge for the architects and
developers.

The scope of the work will require more than the usual excavation and
foundation work since they are building over water. Timber piles 35
feet down are part of the plan. "It is not an easy construction,"
said Zhitnik.

With completion estimated at a year from now, it is too soon to
discuss pricing, according to Alon Even-Har.

Community members are not excited about what they say is a trend
toward large residential projects along the Sheepshead Bay waterfront.

Glad to hear that a restaurant is planned that will be visible from
the street at this development, Steve Barrison, president of the Bay
Improvement Group, still has reservations.

"It's sad to see more condos going in where area residents say they
prefer restaurants, yacht clubs, even bait shops, anything that will
enhance the waterfront," he said by telephone yesterday from his
office in Manhattan.

Barrison said his group is actually a coalition of individuals and
groups that are dedicated to preserving the main streets and
waterfront of Sheepshead Bay.

"We don't want to lose the waterfront. It's so precious to the
community and the public and the area's quality of life."

Even-Har, who said his family purchased this property — vacant land —
about a year ago, believes his project will enhance Emmons Avenue.

In addition to the commercial spaces that will face the avenue,
marina slips can be rented by the public, "although condo owners will
have first pick," and membership at the spa/health club will also be
available to the general public.

The Marina at Sheepshead Bay is one of several in the works for the
family, which includes Alon's father, Joseph, and his brother, Oren.

They completed several projects recently in Manhattan, have two very
large properties in the works in the Bronx, and have acquired another
waterfront property in Queens ("now that we are becoming water
experts").

Their largest Brooklyn project to date is still in the planning
stages. It will include the construction of about 93 houses along
Shore Parkway ("not over water"). No architect has been selected for
that project yet, he said.

Alon Even-Har is also a builder. His company is E.H. General
Contractors Corp. of Brooklyn.

Gulcrapek
February 8th, 2004, 12:59 PM
I was wondering how they were going to fit all that onto the site... it's pretty small without a 'pier' element.

Hmm... Shore Parkway and where?

Gulcrapek
April 17th, 2004, 04:42 PM
From the Yahoo! group coneyisland2:

Brooklyn Eagle Excerpt -

The Breakers, at 3112-3144 Emmons Ave., was called that because "the
whole building looks like breakers, or waves," said Kalman.

She is also breaking away from Boymelgreen with this one, a project
of Yachad Enterprises, with Jacob Pinson as the main partner.

Still in the design stage, this is a brand new "over-the-water"
waterfront development with 74 luxury units in three-story town
houses and one three-story separate apartment building.

Kalman's goals were to create "a neighborhood village" of homes and
apartments with views and places for people to congregate; and to
include a 60-foot wide visual corridor extending across the entire
site from Emmons Avenue to the bay, "opening the view of the water to
neighbors walking or driving by along Emmons."

Additionally, the planned landscaping, with benches and picnic
tables, and the marina and boardwalk will create the desired
atmosphere of a resort community, according to Kalman.

muscle1313
May 15th, 2004, 10:48 AM
Brooklyn Eagle -

Condos Selling at $900/Square Foot
At Oceana in Brighton Beach
by Linda Collins (linda@brooklyneagle.net), published online 05-14-
2004


`700' Mark Reached in Total Home Sales at Oceana
BRIGHTON BEACH — Oceana Condominium and Club in Brighton Beach has
achieved two milestones in recent months, the developer, Muss
Development Co., announced this week.

Sales have passed the "700" mark and units have recently sold for as
high as $900 per square foot, which a Muss spokesperson claims is an
all-time record for the borough.

That spokesperson is senior vice president Diana Jabber, who said
that one of the high-priced units was a 2,766-square-foot duplex
penthouse that sold recently for $2.5 million.

"There seems to be more demand for our homes today than there's ever
been," she said. "We just can't build fast enough."

Construction will begin this summer on two eight-story waterfront
buildings at 125 and 135 Oceana Dr., with completion estimated for
summer 2005. These are the 13th and 14th of the 15-building complex,
and will contain a total of 108 more homes.

After just three weeks on the market, homes at 65 Oceana Drive East,
the latest high-rise building available for purchase at Oceana, are
50-percent sold. That building, the 12th, is 12 stories high and is
scheduled for topping out this summer and completion by December. Two-
thirds of the 63 units are sold.

Jabber attributes much of the development's success to its
recreational facilities, including Club Oceana with its outdoor
pools, sundecks, health spa and "dazzling" 70-foot-long indoor pool
which features Roman-style columns and skylights that flood the pool
with natural light.

Designed by architects Sandy & Babcock International of San
Francisco, and Manhattan-based Schuman, Lichenstein, Claman, Efron,
apartment amenities include 9-foot ceilings, oversized windows, large
balconies, marble-cad bathrooms, hardwood strip flooring, European-
style kitchens, most with windows.

The buildings have gabled and mansard roofs and design "inspired by
classic turn-of-the-last-century architecture," Jabber said.

There is also parking for 1,200 cars, a staffed gatehouse,
beautifully-landscaped grounds, 24-hour security, and high-tech
telecommunications.

Ultimately, there will be 850 condos at the 15-acre complex that is
bounded by the beach and boardwalk, Brighton Beach Avenue and the
community of Manhattan Beach.

In 2003, the development was named a finalist for "Best For-Sale
Housing Community in America" in the National Association of Builders
2003 Pillars of Industry Awards competition, sponsored by Freddie
Mac. Oceana was the competition's first New York City finalist in
many years.

In 2002, the development was named a winner in the Brooklyn Chamber
of Commerce's Building Brooklyn Awards competition, in the
residential/multi-family category. For that award, the Oceana was
commended for creating a park-like, beach-like feeling, for
integrating elements of Brooklyn's architectural history (such as its
use of terra cotta and brick, with green gabled roofs), for its
impact on the community around it (new restaurants and retail shops
have sprung up) and for adding to the local Brooklyn economy.

Gulcrapek
May 15th, 2004, 11:52 AM
^There's no brick involved. It's painted concrete.

I'd like it more if the development was more diverse. Something like 85% of its residents are Russian.

muscle1313
May 15th, 2004, 11:57 AM
Daily News

Cruisin' toward future
Kruger praises plans for Sheepshead Bay
By BILL FARRELL
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Now that a longtime eyesore is gone from Sheepshead Bay, plans to
brighten the site's future are emerging.
Last month, The Cartigan - a derelict former Coast Guard cutter that
was submerged in the bay for more than 30 years - was finally hauled
away. Now, a local politician is praising a city proposal to develop
a full-service public marina along Emmons Ave.

"We want to do something to keep the fishing fleet and bring in more
dinner boats and other pleasure boats," state Sen. Carl Kruger (D-
Sheepshead Bay) said last week. "For all too long, Sheepshead Bay has
been the forgotten animal in relation to the city's other marinas."

Kruger met last week with Parks Department officials to review a plan
that calls for the construction of a customer service and staff kiosk
at Pier 10 along with other improvements along Emmons Ave.

Those improvements include floating docks for private recreational
slips, refurbished walkways and fencing and a dedicated dock for
kayaks and canoes.

These upgrades, expected to cost upward of $450,000, will be funded
by the Parks Department and through a grant from the state's Coastal
Resources Local Waterfront Revitalization Program.

The plan comes in addition to numerous other infrastructure
improvements already underway in Sheepshead Bay.
"It is a credit to the Bloomberg administration that they are
creating interest in the area and all along Emmons Ave.," Kruger
said.

Such interest, the senator said, is keen in Brooklyn's nearby Russian
community, where some entrepreneurs want to introduce yet another
dinner cruise boat to the existing fleet.

But with parking already at a premium and many of the boats that once
made up the Sheepshead Bay fishing fleet now gone, not everyone in
the neighborhood is happy with the prospect of another dinner cruise
sailing out of Emmons Ave.

"There are four dinner boats operating there now and there is no
place to park," said Steve Barrison of the Bay Improvement Group.

"Sheepshead Bay is not Boca Raton; it's not the South of
France. ...," Barrison insisted. "Without any new parking, we have no
need for additional recreational or dinner boats."

Originally published on May 4, 2004

muscle1313
May 15th, 2004, 12:00 PM
I'd like it more if the development was more diverse. Something like 85% of its residents are Russian.

Bet the percentage is even higher than that. Still the $2.5 million figure blew me away.

muscle1313
September 25th, 2004, 05:02 PM
Bay Plaza restaurant has been demolished on Emmons Ave. Permit went up this week at the site. 6 stories 48 units waterfront condo. Thats a big one. I have lost count on the number of condo complexes being built on Emmons. Think its over 10 now. A guy at the construction site today said his friend was offered over $900 thousand for a small house right off Emmons stuck between condo developments. I guess the developers are looking to extend their buildings. The guy took the offer. Amazing what is happening on Emmons Ave.

Gulcrapek
September 25th, 2004, 09:57 PM
I'm starting to oppose the new develoments, simply for their nondescript/sucky architecture.

muscle1313
September 25th, 2004, 10:19 PM
I'm starting to oppose the new develoments, simply for their nondescript/sucky architecture.

You are not alone in your opposition dude. Most of the community wants to keep it a "fishing village" with disgusting old beaten down bungalows and empty lots. I love all the new development. I am not so into the architecture aspects as most here. I just want to see the Bay move forward like neighborhoods on the other side of Brooklyn have (ie. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope etc.)

Gulcrapek
September 25th, 2004, 10:36 PM
It has been moving forward at its own pace. I don't oppose development just for the sake of opposing it though. I'd rather no development than ugly scars on the neighborhood.

muscle1313
September 25th, 2004, 11:39 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder dude. You have said many times the Oceana condos are horrible looking. I see people taking pictures of those condos from the boardwalk. I can't count how many times people have told me how great the Oceana looks. Individual tastes. The condos on Emmons look great to me.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 12:02 AM
I may have posted this a few months ago but for those who haven't seen the Oceana here is a look

http://www.oceanausa.com/index_flash.html

ZippyTheChimp
September 26th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Oceana is tacky. The closer you get, the worse it looks. Those white balcony railings appear to be made out of PVC pipe. And the facade is an imitation of...what?

Post some photos of the Emmons Ave developments. Let the forum judge.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 10:33 AM
I would rather judge by the real estate values. $2.5 million for a tacky Oceana condo is kinda cool! :D

ZippyTheChimp
September 26th, 2004, 10:50 AM
Some people think that it is also important that ther area in which they live look good. If a developer is marketing property at top dollar, then that developer can afford to spend a little more on what he builds. You can have both, but developers won't do it on their own. They will mazimize ROI. It's the main reason that what is generally being built across America is mediocre.

Architecture isn't something you go to a museum to see. You live in it.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 02:12 PM
Well since my wife and I live in a condo on Emmons Ave I guess my opinion of what looks good matters a little bit more than the forum's opinion in this particular case according to your last post. Individual tastes my man. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Also since about 80% of the condos being built on Emmons are still dirt lots with construction machinery and materials all over the place it would be a little hard to judge if it looks good before its built! :lol:

ZippyTheChimp
September 26th, 2004, 04:51 PM
The point of the last few points is whether or not the architecture is important, as by your statement

love all the new development. I am not so into the architecture aspects as most here. I just want to see the Bay move forward like neighborhoods on the other side of Brooklyn have (ie. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope etc.)
...not about whether your opinion is more valid than those of this forum. The topic is universal.

If you think that Sheepshead will move transform into Brooklyn Heights by building ugly....oh brother.

I do have some hope for the Venice Marina.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 05:48 PM
So your's or this forum's definition of ugly is universal? How would you explain these articles and architectural awards? Your ugly could be my beautiful. I hope this forum is open to disagreement.

An Unlikely Contender in a Developers' Beauty Contest
THE NEW YORK TIMES
May 25, 2003

By TARA BAHRAMPOUR
The New York Times


Earlier this year, when the National Association of Home Builders announced the five finalists for its 2003 award for the country's best for-sale housing community, most contenders were from places like Carmel-by-the-Sea, Calif., and Bonita Springs, Fla.

But one had a grittier provenance: Brooklyn, N.Y. That development, the Oceana Condominium and Club in Brighton Beach, is, in fact, the only finalist from New York City to be found among all 31 award categories - from best loft development to best garden apartment community - that the association has created.

The project, still under construction, will have 16 buildings with 850 apartments along the oceanfront where the Brighton Beach Baths long stood. The Muss Development Company of Forest Hills, Queens, is building the $250 million complex.

Today, it is a gated, landscaped complex with a gym, a large lawn, and indoor and outdoor swimming pools. With red brick exteriors and decorative cement globes, the design is meant to evoke traditional Brooklyn housing, but among the more modest buildings of Brighton Beach, it stands out like a gleaming resort.

When luxury housing was first proposed for the site, some people argued that local residents would be priced out. After some concessions, like lower building heights (they now range from 7 to 12 stories), Community Board 13 supported the plan.

At $400,000 for a two-bedroom apartment and $1.2 million for a four-bedroom waterfront penthouse with a large terrace, the condominiums are still out of reach for many local residents. But two-thirds of the apartments have been sold so far, said Diana Jabber, senior vice president of the development company.

Manuel Chiuten, a plastic surgeon from the Philippines, moved into the complex with his wife three years ago; since then they have bought two more units there.

"We used to go to the beach often, then we saw the sign," he said, referring to a billboard that presented a rendering of the complex to passers-by on Brighton Beach Avenue. His wife, who is from Ukraine, said the area reminded her of childhood vacations on the Black Sea.

Oceana did not win the home builders award. But Ms. Jabber was not too disappointed, considering the competition.

"These are these beautiful places that they put up in Carmel, Arizona, Florida, where you have these exquisite golf resorts," she said. "For a Northeastern urban community to get this far - it's just not done here very often."


Brooklyn Eagle -

Condos Selling at $900/Square Foot
At Oceana in Brighton Beach
by Linda Collins (linda@brooklyneagle.net), published online 05-14-
2004


`700' Mark Reached in Total Home Sales at Oceana
BRIGHTON BEACH — Oceana Condominium and Club in Brighton Beach has
achieved two milestones in recent months, the developer, Muss
Development Co., announced this week.

Sales have passed the "700" mark and units have recently sold for as
high as $900 per square foot, which a Muss spokesperson claims is an
all-time record for the borough.

That spokesperson is senior vice president Diana Jabber, who said
that one of the high-priced units was a 2,766-square-foot duplex
penthouse that sold recently for $2.5 million.

"There seems to be more demand for our homes today than there's ever
been," she said. "We just can't build fast enough."

Construction will begin this summer on two eight-story waterfront
buildings at 125 and 135 Oceana Dr., with completion estimated for
summer 2005. These are the 13th and 14th of the 15-building complex,
and will contain a total of 108 more homes.

After just three weeks on the market, homes at 65 Oceana Drive East,
the latest high-rise building available for purchase at Oceana, are
50-percent sold. That building, the 12th, is 12 stories high and is
scheduled for topping out this summer and completion by December. Two-
thirds of the 63 units are sold.

Jabber attributes much of the development's success to its
recreational facilities, including Club Oceana with its outdoor
pools, sundecks, health spa and "dazzling" 70-foot-long indoor pool
which features Roman-style columns and skylights that flood the pool
with natural light.

Designed by architects Sandy & Babcock International of San
Francisco, and Manhattan-based Schuman, Lichenstein, Claman, Efron,
apartment amenities include 9-foot ceilings, oversized windows, large
balconies, marble-cad bathrooms, hardwood strip flooring, European-
style kitchens, most with windows.

The buildings have gabled and mansard roofs and design "inspired by
classic turn-of-the-last-century architecture," Jabber said.

There is also parking for 1,200 cars, a staffed gatehouse,
beautifully-landscaped grounds, 24-hour security, and high-tech
telecommunications.

Ultimately, there will be 850 condos at the 15-acre complex that is
bounded by the beach and boardwalk, Brighton Beach Avenue and the
community of Manhattan Beach.

In 2003, the development was named a finalist for "Best For-Sale
Housing Community in America" in the National Association of Builders
2003 Pillars of Industry Awards competition, sponsored by Freddie
Mac. Oceana was the competition's first New York City finalist in
many years.

In 2002, the development was named a winner in the Brooklyn Chamber
of Commerce's Building Brooklyn Awards competition, in the
residential/multi-family category. For that award, the Oceana was
commended for creating a park-like, beach-like feeling, for
integrating elements of Brooklyn's architectural history (such as its
use of terra cotta and brick, with green gabled roofs), for its
impact on the community around it (new restaurants and retail shops
have sprung up) and for adding to the local Brooklyn economy.

ZippyTheChimp
September 26th, 2004, 06:21 PM
So your's or this forum's definition of ugly is universal? How would you explain this? Your ugly is my beautiful. I hope this forum is open to disagreement.

If you think that's what I said, then no, I can't explain it. You completely missed the point.

The topic (whether architecture is relevant) is universal to all of us. I said that in response to your statement, that your opinion ""matters a little bit more than the forum's opinion in this particular case according to your last post." In other words, you don't have to live there to have an equally valid opinion.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 07:14 PM
But you did post this didn't you? And I did say according to your post.


Some people think that it is also important that ther area in which they live look good.
Architecture isn't something you go to a museum to see. You live in it.


If you think that Sheepshead will move transform into Brooklyn Heights by building ugly....oh brother.


I really hope this forum realizes there are a wide variety of opinions on what looks good or doesn't. To say "that is ugly" or "that is fantastic architecture" is only your opinion its not the worlds. And if everybody in this forum agrees on what is great or terrible then it makes for one boring forum and it still doesn't mean you are all right. There are many here that think the Oceana is terrible architecture. There are many in the industry that think the exact opposite as demonstrated by the above articles. I think Gulcrapek is probably the best poster in Wired New York. That doesn't mean I agree with him. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you guys think you are the definitive opinion on architecture I strongly disagree. I know I am sure not but neither is anybody in this forum. For Zippy to say if they "build ugly" is a personal opinion. Tell me why your opinion of ugly is more worthy than the development community that nominated Oceana for the beauty contest? It isn't.

muscle1313
September 26th, 2004, 07:29 PM
I am just waiting for BrooklynRider's comments on my posts and this thread! :lol: :shock: I can only imagine!

BrooklynRider
September 26th, 2004, 10:01 PM
I am just waiting for BrooklynRider's comments on my posts and this thread! :lol: :shock: I can only imagine!

Hi Muscle-

Well, I understand one thing that alot of others posters may not: you are an ardent supporter and advocate of the further development of Southern Brooklyn, specifically the areas of Sheepshead Bay, Brighton Beach and, especially, Coney Island. You're a passionate guy about this and you do attend the community meetings when possible and try to keep up on the latest. For that, I have a lot of respect.

Regarding the architecture issue, I find that there are varying degrees of agreement in this forum. However, I think, in this forum, architectural opinions are less about being "in the eyes of the beholder", and tend to be more "valid" simply because the combined level of knowledge and education on architecture,construction, urban planning and overall New York development is in such high concentration in this forum. Although there are differences of opinion in this forum, for the most part opinions are given with supporting arguments.

I think the weakness of your specific argument here against the opinion of other posters and terming it as "in the eyes of the beholders" is in the fact that your posts and interests (based on your own postings) are limited to Brooklyn and further limited to Southern Brooklyn. That's the area of your focus and the range of your posts. When you begin comparative analysis of what is being built in Southern Brooklyn with what is being built in other areas of NYC and the NYC metro area, suddenly you come around to Zippy's point that developer's have it in their realm to create something good, if not great. And, mediocre or plain "bad" become easier to spot.

The development of Sheepshead Bay reminds me a bit of the development of Long Beach, NY - where I lived for 10 years following high school. It was run down, barren, pretty much a wasteland. The first developments came and, naturally, everyone thought it was great. Further development was supported and, being beach front property, people were flipping the units right and left, driving prices upward. However, the beach front development is nearing its end, with few lots remaining, and, at the end of the day, there's not a "WOW" building amongst the lot. Certainly, it is better than it was when I first moved there. But, when you begin factoring in the comparative analysis of other mid-rise beach front communities, you see how much "architecture" was sacrificed. Here is where you see the impact, or lack thereof, of community boards (which I admit I often deride) and urban planning and development.

I think in the beginning "any indication" of investment in the future of Sheepshead Bay was good. But, now that development has proved viable and a good investment, design standards should be implemented, upheld, and continually raised.

I think a good example of the differences of opinion can be seen in C.I., where a Wal-Mart was proposed. Some people wanted the Wal-Mart built because it symbolized "investment and development". Others vehemently opposed it, because an educated understanding of Wal-Mart tells you you are getting an ugly big-box building, totally out of context with the community it is in, which will suck any vibrancy and quirkiness out of the community. In C.I., that was easier to defeat, because everyone is generally educated about C.I.'s past and, when anyone thinks of C.I., the first thing they reference is its amusement paradise past. Wal-Mart does not make the cut. Oceana is another example. Good in comparison to "nothing" being developed, but why not give us some south Florida type of hi-rise developments on such a big parcel. We got "okay", when the community should have held out for "GREAT!"

I'm kind of rambling here, but, in closing, I think the biggest problem with Sheepshead Bay development is the inability of the Community or City to find a way to re-integrate the Nautical / Fishing History of the canal back into the neighborhood. I think in Sheepshead bay they are stripping the community of a unique identity it once had.

But back to architecture..... expand the realm of your posting and reading at WiredNewYork from threads limited to C.I., Brighton and S.B. and you'll find there are people on here with a great breadth and depth of understanding, experience, expertise, and education. Folks here are more conservative in their posting in that they hold back from posting "throw away" responses. They give and expect consideration and thought to posts, and credibility is built upon those posts. Gulcrapek and Zippy are two great examples of posters who have developed respectable reputations in the forum. I would personally find it hard to discount or trivialize their opinion as they tend to be informative and willing to develop and present arguments to support their posts.

At the same time, you are the most strident and vocal supporter of development in SB, Brighton and CI I have encountered. I suggest you dive in Muscle - read more threads - and you'll see. It'll make you a stronger, more widely educated participant in the forum AND especially at the community meetings you attend. Points of opinion are argued here, not attacked or dismissed. Jump in - I promise you'll be better and stronger at your next community meeting for it!

ZippyTheChimp
September 26th, 2004, 11:25 PM
When I posted...

Post some photos of the Emmons Ave developments. Let the forum judge.
What would have happened is what you posted...

I really hope this forum realizes there are a wide variety of opinions on what looks good or doesn't.
That is exactly what is done here. Someone posts info about a project, and there are a wide range of opinions. And it is ALL opinions, even that of the "development community." No one has stated otherwise.

BrooklynRider
September 27th, 2004, 09:34 AM
So, let's see some photos!

muscle1313
September 27th, 2004, 09:52 AM
I don't believe it! BrooklynRider actually posted to me as if I was human. Wow!

You guys want me to take pictures of dirt lots with cranes? Don't think its going to happen folks :D As I said the great majority of the condo construction is just starting.

muscle1313
October 30th, 2004, 01:38 PM
NY Post

SHEEPSHEAD BAY GOES FROM FISHING TOWN TO UPSCALE MELTING POT

October 30, 2004 -- JUST how hot is Brooklyn real estate? Just how much do people want to live in the original home of the Dodgers and Nathan's frankfurters?
Consider this: People are flocking like sheep to faraway Sheepshead Bay; they're buying condos for three-quarters of a million dollars (or more) and they're loving it.

Sheepshead Bay - the finger of water at Brooklyn's southern edge surrounded by land - is on the rise and its star isn't fading any time soon.

Thirty minutes away from Manhattan on the D-train, Sheepshead Bay has all the trappings of a cute, Russian-language fishing village.

"It feels like you're not in Brooklyn," says Sheri Sadi, 37, who grew up in the neighborhood, moved to Manhattan Beach, but returned, and now lives with her husband and son in her family house.

"As you can see, there's the water, the parks; you can go to Coney Island or to the beaches."

On Shore Boulevard sits a row of two-story houses overlooking the bay, atop lovely green, manicured lawns. Fishing boats and sailboats bob next to the pier. Stacks of freshly caught bluefish flop up and down on the concrete marina.

"My dad goes kayaking," says Saskia Kahn, 16, who has been living in the neighborhood since she was a baby. "Having the water's really nice."

Across the bay on Emmons Avenue (once called "Millionaire's Row") are a line of seafood places. Try Lundy's or Randazzo's, where you can get first-rate fried clams and spaghetti with lobster sauce.

There are also a number of excellent Turkish restaurants and a handful of commercial fishing boats and yacht clubs. (If you demand more of the modern conveniences of a typical Chelsea-ite, there's a Loehmann's department store, an Applebee's, a Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin-Robbins.)



And while it might at first seem difficult to find a non-Russian, native English-speaker walking through the neighborhood, there is a healthy dose of Asians and Arabs, and a smattering of African-Americans. "It's really got everybody," says Pat Kessler, who runs Kessler Realty with her husband, Arthur. "It's a melting pot - it's like going around the world and never leaving ."

The diversity is relatively recent. Sheepshead Bay - called Shanscomacocke by the its earliest settlers, Lenni Lenape Indians - was part of the general resort-like fanfare of Coney Island (it was home to the Sheepshead Bay Race Track) and home to a lot of middle-class, commercial fishermen during the 19th century.

Twenty years ago, most of the people who grew up in Sheepshead Bay were moving out. "Sheepshead Bay was becoming almost a ghost town," says Pat Kessler.

But in the late 1990s, the neighborhood had a huge influx of Russian immigrants, making it the upscale alternative to Brighton Beach or Coney Island. (A lot of the area's pharmacies and groceries have their signs in Cyrillic.)

"I've been to Coney Island once," says Sharon Tsivtsivadze, an immigrant from the Republic of Georgia, who has lived in Sheepshead Bay for the past four years. "I had a run-in with a, like, Mafia gang. I didn't like it."

Tsivtsivadze is manager at Sheepshead Bay Fruits & Vegetables, a tony gourmet shop, where most of her customers are doctors and lawyers, she says.

It's easy to find the signs of yuppification: There is a Fuel health-food restaurant that opened a year ago. "I'd say 80 percent of the people who eat here work out," says Galina Gursoy, 49, who came to Sheepshead Bay nine years ago from Belarus.

There's another clear sign that Sheepshead Bay is not just for 90-year-old Russian bubbes: a spate of luxury condominium projects have been slated for development, and property values have skyrocketed.

"You have builders buying one, two, three, four lots at a clip," says Ethan Exelbert, a broker at Weichert HP Greenfield Real Estate. "The prices are really inflated."

Exelbert is trying to sell a cozy, 560-square-foot, two-bedroom bungalow for $439,000 - a $200,000 jump from what it would have probably gone for four years ago. But the value is not in the bungalow, it's in the property it sits on.

Along Emmons Avenue, there are a string of new developments that will be going up in the next year or two. "About seven or eight companies have been dominating the area," says Albert Wilk, who runs Wilk Realty. "Construction prices are up 30 percent in the last three months."

Two-bedroom condos are going for $600,000; three-bedrooms and duplexes are going for $725,000 - or more.

One of these projects, the Marina complex at 2908 Emmons Ave., sits on the water and consists of 19 units. It has been under development for the past two years. When it is finished, it will include accoutrements one would expect in a luxury condo in Manhattan: gym, garage, a nice view of the water.

Yet a 1,000-square-foot one-family house with two bedrooms and a renovated kitchen can still be found in Sheepshead Bay for less than half a million dollars (provided it isn't near the developments - i.e., near the water).

For those who are not looking to buy, the rents are attractive.

"A one-bedroom goes for between $800 and $1,000," says Arthur Kessler. "A two-bedroom between $1,000 and $1,400; a three-bedroom between $1,500 and $2,000.

And although the neighborhood has more of a quiet, family feel, it has a modest nightlife. Pip's Comedy Club is nestled between the popular seafood joints on Emmons Avenue. Jackie Mason recently appeared on the bill.

"There's a club called 'Heaven,'" says Tsivtsivadze. "I remember getting a cab, and the driver saying, 'Where are you going?' and I said, 'Heaven.'

"He just said, 'Wow.'

http://www.nypost.com/realestate/32979.htm

BrandonUptown
October 30th, 2004, 02:31 PM
does anyone have any, or know where I can find some pics of this unique NY neighborhood?

muscle1313
October 30th, 2004, 03:44 PM
Today's paper edition of the NY Post has some great pics included with the article.

muscle1313
November 10th, 2004, 03:20 AM
I found this link Edward posted in another thread. Did a Brooklyn search and found this listing. A cool $3 Mil for an Oceana condo. Not bad!

120 Oceana Drive W
Brighton Beach

3 beds
3 baths
1,776 sq ft
Condo
$3,000,000

http://www.elliman.com/Listing.aspx?ListingID=645779&SearchType=quick

Edward
November 10th, 2004, 10:05 AM
800+ sf of terrace space - Nice

vroman
November 10th, 2004, 04:00 PM
800+ sf of terrace space - Nice

I live in Oceana. I'll tell you this penthouse for sale was probably purchased for about 900k, 4 years ago. I know someone who bought a penthouse on the other side, 2,000 sq ft 3 bedroom with the 800 sq ft terrace and paid a little over 800k. Of course no direct ocean view. The prices are kinda insane. I live in a 2 bedroom.

muscle1313
November 10th, 2004, 07:00 PM
Vroman - Last I saw the prices were $500,000 to $2.5 million for the Oceana but seeing this $3 million listing makes me think the range has changed. Has the low number risen from $500K?

vroman
November 11th, 2004, 08:06 AM
Vroman - Last I saw the prices were $500,000 to $2.5 million for the Oceana but seeing this $3 million listing makes me think the range has changed. Has the low number risen from $500K?

Well you know, the lower number has risen a little. However you can still find an apt for 500 there I believe. Last week I saw on the market there, a 1 bedroom (they dont build many one bedrooms) for about $450,000. That is the least expensive apartment you can find there now. Decen

Gulcrapek
November 14th, 2004, 02:33 PM
This weeks' Bay News had an article on a site on Knapp Street being sought after by developers for condos. I think it was 94 units or around there. Of course, the residents are fighting it. It's not that far from the proposed Venice Marina redevelopment.

Gulcrapek
November 14th, 2004, 10:32 PM
3148 Voorhies Ave

http://www.masseyknakal.com/search/ > brooklyn > 100,00 sf+ > 3148 Voorhies Ave

Architecture is different for the neighborhood, could be cool. PDF viewing 150% is best for rendering.

billyblancoNYC
November 15th, 2004, 05:29 PM
3148 Voorhies Ave

http://www.masseyknakal.com/search/ > brooklyn > 100,00 sf+ > 3148 Voorhies Ave

Architecture is different for the neighborhood, could be cool. PDF viewing 150% is best for rendering.

I like it. Hope it gets done looking something like this. Very different for NYC, but fits the waterfront surroundings.

muscle1313
November 15th, 2004, 07:24 PM
I like it. Hope it gets done looking something like this. Very different for NYC, but fits the waterfront surroundings.

I doubt this one gets done guys. As much as I would like it, there is a huge NIMBY faction in this neighborhood that is against every single development that is planned (including the Sheepshead Bay Beautification Project if you can believe it :evil: ). The other condos are getting done because they are "as of right". This condo development would need upzoning and this whole neighborhood is fighting for downzoning except me of course :shock: . They are fighting the Venice Marina project like crazy too. They love their little country bungalows these people. I don't believe they can stop the progress though. We shall see. You know I love it guys. I do what I can to keep Sheepshead Bay growing. I have spoken with Brooklyn BP Marty Markowitz and his head of Development Planning and told them not everybody here is a NIMBY. Its an issue I don't know if I can win on but I will keep trying!

muscle1313
January 2nd, 2005, 11:22 AM
NY Post Dec 25th

Excerpt

FOUR years ago, the Oceana luxury condos went up in the decidely non-affluent neighborhood of Brighton Beach. Situated next to the boardwalk, the complex was a success, with 16 prices increases since it went on the market.

Built by the architects behind Miami's super-exclusive Fisher Island, the Oceana's got beautiful finishes, a private club and, of course, an obligatory "celebrity" resident, triple-gold-medalist swimmer Leonard Krayzelberg.

Trust us when we say it's absolutely stunning (if a little faux in a Las Vegas kind of way).

If you want in on this slice of opulent Odessa, you haven't missed out, yet. Currently under construction are buildings 13 and 14, situated closest to the boardwalk. And there's one final building that will be marketed in February. Prices start at $540,000 for a two-bedroom and cap at $3.025 million for a penthouse.

"A lot of people are coming from Manhattan," says sales rep Linda Vetrano. "Many are buying summer homes here. They don't want to commute to the Hamptons from Manhattan anymore."

www.oceanaUSA.com

muscle1313
January 16th, 2005, 01:55 PM
NY Daily News

Luxury has a price in Brighton

Living cost on the rise

BY VERONIKA BELENKAYA
DAILY NEWS WRITER

Living and shopping in Little Odessa now come with a big price tag.
Since the luxurious Oceana condominiums opened in 2000, Brighton Beach food store and real estate prices have skyrocketed, reflecting the wave of wealthier residents.

"Everything is expensive in Brighton now - the fruits, the vegetables," said Alla Sargisyan, as she shopped at a produce store on Brighton Beach Blvd. Tomatoes that she said were once "much cheaper" are now $3.99 a pound.

"The people who live on Brighton are mostly lower-middle-class Russians and seniors," said Sargisyan, a Brighton Beach home attendant. "But who can afford these new apartments? The people who have money, and it's reflected in the new prices."

Oceana Condominium and Club has lured middle- and upper-class Russians and even a few non-Russian-Americans with luxurious units that boast a view of the beach, a gym, a sauna with a pool and private parking garages.

Some of the first two-bedroom apartments sold for as low as $300,000, said Tina Orsini, 56, an ex-condo board member who moved in three years ago.

"Now, the same apartment could go for over $600,000," said Orsini, who teaches English at Kingsborough Community College.

Today, Oceana condo prices range from $540,000 to more than $2 million.

Pat Kessler of Kessler Real Estate, who has been in the business for 30 years, says this is the biggest real estate boom she has ever seen.

"When Oceana posted up a sign, '$1 million for a condo,' we could not believe ourselves - and they sold out. Sold out!" she said.

"That was the opening gate. Brighton Beach just blew right after that. It's golden now. The real estate value here has doubled over the past two years."

With more Oceana buildings under construction and more well-to-do residents - such as Sal Capece, owner of Marciano Cherries - moving in, prices at Brighton Beach shops are soaring as well.

"Before, you used to be able to get three oranges for a dollar. Look, now you only get two," said Bella Oatman, 60, standing at a produce store on Brighton 5th St. "The prices have been rising for about two years ... of course I am not happy about it."

But Yelena Makhnin, executive director of the Brighton Beach Business Improvement District, said the luxury complex with its wealthy tenants is a boon for area merchants.

"It's actually helping the businesses," she said.

City Councilman Domenic Recchia (D-Brooklyn) said the Oceana was helping to revitalize the neighborhood.

"It's been bringing up the whole neighborhood," he said. "A lot of people are moving in."

But for people like Ida Miernarskaya, who has lived in her Brighton Beach apartment near the Oceana for 15 years, the change is not all positive. She worries her rent will increase because of the real estate boom.

A home attendant, Miernarskaya said rents in her building already have increased for new tenants.

"A one-bedroom in my building is now over $950 a month, and I don't think the landlord participates in [federally subsidized] Section 8 anymore," she said.

Originally published on January 16, 2005

alex ballard
January 16th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Well, with Russia moving closer to communism, I would expect a big wave of Russians coming over pretty soon. Especally the well-off ones. So Sheepshead bay and Brighton Beach should really explode off the charts popualtion wise. I wouldn't be surprised if Marine Park, Midwood, and Gravesend all turn Russian (although, from what I hear, Gravesend has an intrenched Italian popualtion). Anyway, I hope the NIMBYs wake up and smell the coffee. More people equals more investment via jobs and services. By the way, Isn't Sheepshead Bay one of Brooklyn's Chinatowns as well?

muscle1313
January 16th, 2005, 03:26 PM
By the way, Isn't Sheepshead Bay one of Brooklyn's Chinatowns as well?

Yes there is a rapidly growing Asian population in Sheepshead Bay as well as a large Russian population. As Emmons Ave get more and more expensive I am expecting the Bay to see a substantial increase in diversity.

Gulcrapek
January 31st, 2005, 09:07 PM
On E16 Street between Ave Z and Sheepshead Bay Rd.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/532/130e17s.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/532/130e16s.jpg

billyblancoNYC
January 31st, 2005, 11:19 PM
On E16 Street between Ave Z and Sheepshead Bay Rd.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/532/130e17s.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/532/130e16s.jpg


Horror show.

Gulcrapek
January 31st, 2005, 11:28 PM
It's not that bad, one of the better looking new things in the area (doesn't say much). It turned out better than I thought it was going to.

muscle1313
February 1st, 2005, 12:15 AM
ugh. Sheepshead Bay Road is not the spot. Emmons Ave please. Oceanfront condos on the marina.

NoyokA
February 2nd, 2005, 03:02 PM
NYPOST:

OCEANA GROWS $ TREE IN BROOKLYN

By LOIS WEISS

THESE days, the double "oo" in Brooklyn stands for moolah.

Muss Development's Oceana apartment development on Brighton Beach has already completed 20 sales of over $1 million each, and more of these two- and three-bedroom units by the Atlantic Ocean are on the way.

Over the years of developing the 15 buildings (they are in construction on buildings 13 and 14 and closing sales in 12), Joshua Muss said the company has learned what the community wanted and made changes accordingly.

"We learned from the buildings' prior and changed pricing and floorplans and finishes," said Muss. "We went from oak parquet floors to oak strips, from synthetic counters in the kitchens to granite, from tile to marble in the bathrooms, from nine-foot penthouse ceilings to 10-foot, from four-foot-wide balconies to six-foot, and from smaller to larger window panes."

muscle1313
February 2nd, 2005, 06:20 PM
Stern - Thanks for the article. There are rumors that Muss wants to build another 2 buildings across the street from the current development area. That would bring the total to 17 but it seems the community is against the expansion. Interesting to note that the Oceana is built on the old Brighton Beach Baths site which was a very popular cabana club for years. Another cabana club on the ocean was Palm Shore that closed a few years ago. That Emmons Ave site will turn into "The Breakers" condo complex with prices approaching the Oceana prices. First building is about half done. Looks like there are going to be ocean wave designs on the upper part of the building. Very interesting aspect.

Gulcrapek
February 2nd, 2005, 07:35 PM
Another 2 across the street? I'm not quite sure, but passing it twice a day, there doesn't seem to be any room there at all. One any side.

NewYorkYankee
February 2nd, 2005, 07:38 PM
Are these buildings pretty tall?

muscle1313
February 2nd, 2005, 08:05 PM
Another 2 across the street? I'm not quite sure, but passing it twice a day, there doesn't seem to be any room there at all. One any side.

The rumor in the papers a few weeks ago was that the old bank building across the street was going to be acquired, demolished and turned into new condos.

muscle1313
February 2nd, 2005, 08:08 PM
Are these buildings pretty tall?

The Oceana buildings are 6 or 7 stories I think. The Breakers building is 3 stories and there will be a bunch of townhouses built on that site as well. Nothing over three stories on that site.

Gulcrapek
February 2nd, 2005, 08:19 PM
Oceana goes from 6-12 floors.

I hope that bank stays. It's a nice modernist building. I'd hate to see it demolished for more cheesy Oceana architecture.

muscle1313
April 5th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Brooklyn Skyline excerpt

Beauty and the Bay at CB15

April 4, 2005
By Marianna Hernandez

Improving the Bay was the theme of last week’s Community Board 15 meeting, during which architectural plans for beautifying Sheepshead Bay were unveiled. The board approved the project 27 to 9.

Architect Susan Doban said plans have been made to start construction in the fall so that boat and restaurant owners in the area do not get shortchanged out of their summer business.

Doban, who presented the plans for the Emmons Avenue “Esplanade Project,” added that the proposal will “beautify the bay” while preserving its existing beauty and culture. The project originally began in 2001 but was halted after the September 11th attacks because most of its funding was cut due to the city’s financial strains.

The “Esplanade Project” will focus on repaving the marina side of the bay, repaving certain areas, planting additional trees, additional benches and new steel sculptures of various fish caught in the bay or at sea.

Funding for the project will be provided through Assemblyman Steve Cymbrowitz’s office.

alex ballard
April 6th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Here's a thought I had about how Sheepshead Bay could have boundless growth without tearing down a lot of houses:

The main streets could have tall condo buildings (9-12 stories) built along them. Anohter set of streets will be zoned for 6-8 story condo buildings. Then some streets will be zoned for 3-4 story townhouses. Then the rest are zoned for 1-2 family houses.

The debate over how to go about designating which streets get what will be tetious. But this allows for huge growth while preserving a great majority of the area's fabric.

Just a thought: the areas going toward the Q should get the really heavy zoning, this puts more people towards Mass transit. The avenues should get the lower condos and some townhouses. Then the rest get some townhouses and 1-2 family homes. I don't really know the area, but this sounds the most logical, following the general principals of smart planning.


What do ya think?

muscle1313
April 6th, 2005, 05:29 PM
Your thoughts are good but all the Nimbys here are fighting for downzoning the whole neighborhood. By the time it goes through however just about all of Emmons Ave will have luxury condos thank goodness. There is oceanfront construction every where you look. It will be funny to see them try to downzone Emmons when the whole avenue has condos on it already. Nimby madness. Downzoning away from the water, fine. They want to downzone by the water. Crazy. Let em try. Its meaningless at this point. Emmons is already built up beautifully.

Gulcrapek
April 6th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Alex: that's basically the plan for the Park Slope rezone.

Bruce: what's the 6-story steel skeleton up somewhere west of the "fire" building?

alex ballard
April 6th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Alex: that's basically the plan for the Park Slope rezone.

Bruce: what's the 6-story steel skeleton up somewhere west of the "fire" building?

Well, it seemed to make a lot of sense to me. Doesn't it?

muscle1313
April 6th, 2005, 09:25 PM
Bruce: what's the 6-story steel skeleton up somewhere west of the "fire" building?

Thats a big one Gul. Bay Plaza restaurant put up a sign that it was being renovated. The next week the restaurant was demolished and a permit went up for a 6 story condo. Nobody I know really liked that restaurant so I wasn't upset. The thing I like about what I am seeing is the terraces on the top 2 or 3 floors are going to have water views right over the Italian restaurant and the night club named Heaven across the street. I like what I am seeing there. I asked if they were going to have a pool but the construction guys said no. Too bad. The new condos right behind it are going for $600,000 - $700,000 and are practically all sold but it looks to me like most of them won't have water views. The best condos being built are at the old Palm Shore club. Ocean wave designs near the top of the building. Love it. Pool, marina. Million dollar babies.

alex ballard
April 6th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Thats a big one Gul. Bay Plaza restaurant put up a sign that it was being renovated. The next week the restaurant was demolished and a permit went up for a 6 story condo. Nobody I know really liked that restaurant so I wasn't upset. The thing I like about what I am seeing is the terraces on the top 2 or 3 floors are going to have water views right over the Italian restaurant and the night club named Heaven across the street. I like what I am seeing there. I asked if they were going to have a pool but the construction guys said no. Too bad. The new condos right behind it are going for $600,000 - $700,000 and are practically all sold but it looks to me like most of them won't have water views. The best condos being built are at the old Palm Shore club. Ocean wave designs near the top of the building. Love it. Pool, marina. Million dollar babies.

Sounds like Sheepshead Bay is turning into another Miami Beach.


:0)

Gulcrapek
April 6th, 2005, 10:23 PM
I liked the Bay Plaza.. =/

Anyhoo, do you know the architect or address? I'm guessing solely by popularity/location that it's Felix Pustylnik.

muscle1313
April 6th, 2005, 11:35 PM
I will get you the address tomorrow Gul.

muscle1313
April 7th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Gul - 2801 Emmons Avenue

Gulcrapek
April 8th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Thanky, k then:

2801 Emmons Avenue
6 floors
48 units
Architect: Georges Associates Inc.(?)

Gulcrapek
April 12th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Not condos but medical offices in the middle of a bunch of new condos: 2571 East 17th Street is gearing up again, after going very slowly for a long time. Architect is Corporate Design of America/Robert Palermo, it's 3 floors and 35 ft. It has some nice rows of floor-to-ceiling, angled glass.

Gulcrapek
April 17th, 2005, 08:21 PM
2784 East 12th Street
5 floors, 70 ft
15 units
Architect: Scarano & Associates


This is on the much-morphed Guider Avenue between Coney Island Avenue and East 12th Street. Almost the entire block is full of new buildings designed by Simino Architects (not bad, it seems each building was better than the one before it), so I assumed the same for this one. However, after looking it up (I passed the site tonight, pre-excavation)... :D !!!!!! Our lovely gods of DUMBO take it down to the bay.

muscle1313
April 17th, 2005, 09:20 PM
Thanks Gul. I was not aware of the development going on at Guider at all as its off the main strip. I will go check it out this week. Appreciate the tip. Markowitz just gave Scarano a "Brooklyn Icon award" last week. Glad he has come to the Bay. Good stuff.

muscle1313
May 19th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Daily News excerpt -

"Every developer I see has a smile on his face," said Joshua Muss of
Muss Development, who works in Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island.
Sales are moving swiftly at two new buildings at his Oceana complex on
the boardwalk in Brighton Beach. A three-bedroom duplex at 125 Oceana
Drive East sold for $2.7 million, the highest price to date among the
14 buildings in the gated community.

http://www.nydailynews.com/business/story/309830p-265110c.html

muscle1313
June 18th, 2005, 09:55 AM
As the neighborhood continues to fight every single condo development that begins, the Best Western hotel on Emmons has finally begun construction as the steel frame has gone up. Comfort Inn on Emmons finished construction last year and has been open awhile now. Nice Italian restaurant - Sofias - opened next door to the hotel. Noticed a Sofias in Bay Ridge as well and I think there are a couple in Manhattan.

My neighborhood fights development like its a disease. A damn shame. Emmons Ave was a ghost town 20 years ago. Now its the hottest property in south Brooklyn.

sfenn1117
June 18th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Those buildings are awful. Bay Ridge is starting to look like that, we have zoning that limits buildings to 3 stories on streets and 8 stories on avenues, and since the avenues are mostly apartment buildings and brownstones, the controversy is on the side streets.

At least pre-war apt buildings had character. These buildings are freakin disgusting. They go up in 2 weeks, done in such a crappy manner, they are going to be an eyesore in 10 years. They are knocking down beautiful, century old victorian houses on HUGE lots in bay ridge, then building a 6-10 family condo building like you showed in the pics. UGLY! They stick out horribly.

I'm all for NYC growing, and obviously we need new housing. But please, build these with SOME character, BETTER materials, and try to make it fit into the neighborhood. A condo that sticks above the other houses and borders every property line with no parking (another huge prob) should not be allowed. Why not build a couple nice townhouses instead?

It's funny, the other day I was walking on 80th street, and there's a new building that was built, and a couple russian ladies were pointing, oh look at the pretty new building! Ughhh let me take you broads to Brooklyn Heights or Ft Greene and show you beauty!

Oh yeah our neighborhood was downzoned thankfully. I'm not a nimby but these ugly buildings were ruining our neighborhood.

muscle1313
June 18th, 2005, 11:45 PM
On Emmons Ave some of the condos are going for over a million bucks. They have pools, private marinas, gyms, ocean wave designs etc. The bungalows that they are near are old, broken down and could blow over with a gust of wind. I don't know 1 person living in Brooklyn that wants to buy a bungalow as a home. I know many who are paying top dollar to live in luxury condos. I have lived in Sheepshead Bay my whole life. Emmons Avenue has never looked better than now. My wife and I loved the condos so much we bought one. My guess is most of the people that are fighting the condos can't afford them so they take an alternative route. They become nimbys.

I will never ever understand people trying to stop wealth from entering a neighborhood, but its common practice in NY. Gentrification is a dirty word. Not to me.

alex ballard
June 19th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Those buildings are awful. Bay Ridge is starting to look like that, we have zoning that limits buildings to 3 stories on streets and 8 stories on avenues, and since the avenues are mostly apartment buildings and brownstones, the controversy is on the side streets.

At least pre-war apt buildings had character. These buildings are freakin disgusting. They go up in 2 weeks, done in such a crappy manner, they are going to be an eyesore in 10 years. They are knocking down beautiful, century old victorian houses on HUGE lots in bay ridge, then building a 6-10 family condo building like you showed in the pics. UGLY! They stick out horribly.

I'm all for NYC growing, and obviously we need new housing. But please, build these with SOME character, BETTER materials, and try to make it fit into the neighborhood. A condo that sticks above the other houses and borders every property line with no parking (another huge prob) should not be allowed. Why not build a couple nice townhouses instead?

It's funny, the other day I was walking on 80th street, and there's a new building that was built, and a couple russian ladies were pointing, oh look at the pretty new building! Ughhh let me take you broads to Brooklyn Heights or Ft Greene and show you beauty!

Oh yeah our neighborhood was downzoned thankfully. I'm not a nimby but these ugly buildings were ruining our neighborhood.



I can see why you'd feel that way. But newcomers are your friends, not an invading force to be afriad of. Maybe if there was a ordanace that said "Build what you want as long as it looks the part", then we'd all be happy.

After all, it's called "private property" people. Respect it.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 01:52 PM
I can see why you'd feel that way. But newcomers are your friends, not an invading force to be afriad of. Maybe if there was a ordanace that said "Build what you want as long as it looks the part", then we'd all be happy.

After all, it's called "private property" people. Respect it.

Alex, you are one of my favorite posters here, but it is absolutely astonishing to me that this board thinks that everybody agrees on what is ugly and what is beautiful. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If everybody thought the construction was ugly would people be willing to pay a million bucks to live there? I have heard many Nimby's and politicians use the same argument about condos- UGLY. Meanwhile many are paying huge dollars to live in these so called ugly buildings with pools, gyms, saunas, jacuzzi's and ocean views. An Oceana condo went for $2.7 mil recently. I don't think its ugly at all. Gul thinks its horribly ugly. Meanwhile I see people on the boardwalk taking pics of the Oceana. Does that mean Gul is wrong? No. Does that mean I am wrong. No. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To each his own. To me bungalows are horrifying looking.

alex ballard
June 19th, 2005, 02:26 PM
Absolutley. To these people, Miami is a astechtic hellhole. That doesn't change the fact that it is growing like a weed and condo's down there are 2-3 mil a pop.

Brooklyn is kinda like a Miami/Paris/Pittsburg all rolled into one. And as time goes on, people will begin to realize that urban areas aren't the "wave of the future" but the are the future. Brooklyn is there to fullfill that role.


And don't get me wrong, houses are wonderful. I will deeply miss those old victorians and colonials. But realistically, if you design a victorian condo, then what's there to miss?


I would like to see more thought put into these buidlings, but with proper zoning, a good balance can be achieved.

Also, the people moving in are preserving Brooklyn. Immigrants are the soul of NY and the more the merrier. So let's start building!:D

sfenn1117
June 19th, 2005, 10:20 PM
Agreed that SOME of the houses knocked down are decrepit eyesores. But don't put more decrepit eyesores in their place. That's my point. NYC needs SOME houses and bungalows for the future, for variety and neighborhood character, but realistically of course new buildings are needed.

They want to knock down a BEAUTIFUL 100+ year old church in Bay Ridge because it needs some work, and replace it with a 7 story condo. That I am NOT supporting.

But we have Bay Ridge towers, two 30 story hi-rses built in the early 70s which are kinda ugly, you know standard brick high rise from the 70s. But Im glad they are there. My grandparents said they fought the towers so much because they were too tall. For perspective........they are next to the Gowanus/Belt highways, on a subway line. That's GOOD, smart development. And they aren't projects, they are for middle class. SO no, I'm not a nimby. But my family is. :(

BTW in the past decade about 30 single or 2 family houses have been knocked down and replaced with condos, most of these condos with 6-12 units. Fair enough, but 80% of them are ugggggly. I'm glad there are a FEW nice ones. We nicknamed them fedders houses because of the a/c's hanging out. But Bay Ridge has hundreds of nice houses, so our neighborhood looks okay.....for now. I need to make a photo thread someday.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 10:42 PM
BTW in the past decade about 30 single or 2 family houses have been knocked down and replaced with condos, most of these condos with 6-12 units. Fair enough, but 80% of them are ugggggly. I'm glad there are a FEW nice ones. We nicknamed them fedders houses because of the a/c's hanging out. But Bay Ridge has hundreds of nice houses, so our neighborhood looks okay.....for now. I need to make a photo thread someday.

I got an idea, why don't you do a photo thread of Emmons Ave in Sheepshead Bay and tell everybody how "ugggggly" the condos are when people are paying a million bucks to have condos with oceanfront terrace views, pools, gyms, jacuzzis, saunas and marinas? This board is beyond belief sometimes. Do you guys actually believe that if you think something is ugly or if this whole board thinks something is ugly then you are all correct? I will tell you guys something, there is a lot of big money out there that disagrees with you.

sfenn1117
June 19th, 2005, 10:56 PM
Give me a break these buildings are put up in 2 weeks with the cheapest materials, the developers are all about the profits, they don't care if the buildings look like crap which they do, they get to go home to their mansion in Westchester or Long Island. The real estate market is ridiculously inflated right now too. My house, a 2 family, brick rowhouse from 1926 on a 2 by nothing lot with 2 bedrooms and 1 bath (each floor) is appraised at over 500,000. If the same house/property was in poughkeepsie it would be apprasied at 100,000. The only thing I like about my house is the subway is literally outside my door (68th/4th) as is the bus lines, and I love my neighborhood. The house itself is a piece of crap, yet we got an offer for 550,000$$ not too long ago. How big are the condos inside? I wouldnt doubt if they had tons of indoor problems too. Oh yeah that's not oceanfront that's Sheepshead Bay front with a view of the much better neighborhood of Manhattan Beach.

Edit my grandparents bought the house ~40 years ago for 26,000$ btw.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:09 PM
Most of the condos on Emmons are still under construction. The average time to build has been around 2 years or more, not 2 weeks. I know there are a lot of people that want the bungalows back. Gentrification is a dirty word in South Brooklyn. $2.7 million for an Oceana condo made some people sick. I say thank goodness its happening. Great for the neighborhood. My avenue used to be a ghost town. Now its Millionaires Row.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:20 PM
Bay Currents

By DIANE PETRYK
Bay Currents Editor
The Emmons Avenue esplanade
will look like a million bucks this
fall, give or take a few thousand.
Plans for a $970,000 facelift,
including repaving, new benches and
additional trees, cleared the final hurdle
Monday, May 16 with approval
by the City Art Commission.
Approval from the public, however,
has been less than universal. Bay
Improvement Group is on record
opposing at least part of the plan;
Sheepshead Bay/Plumb Beach Civic
Association contends the design went
forward without public input.
The Improvement Group doesn't
like the benches, says President Steve
Barrison, because they don't fit with
the style of the area, there are too
many of them, and - above all -
unnecessary. The existing benches
need only a few repairs, not expensive
replacements, he says.
Assemblyman Steve Cymbrowitz
favors the plan and said complaints
are coming from "an isolated few."
He said the intent is to beautify the
pier area and surpass the efforts of
more than a decade ago "that didn't
work."
Barrison called it cluttering up the
street.
The style of the existing benches,
around the necessary vaults that hold
power cables, are legless and in keeping
with a maritime space. Brisson
said they offer three advantages:
They camouflage the vaults, offer a
place to sit and provide a concrete
barrier between the seated person and
vehicular traffic.
The proposed benches have six
legs each and are standard park-issue.
Thirty are to be installed.
"That's 180 legs," Barrison said.
"One hundred and eighty more things
to trip over."
They will also be two feet from the
roadway curb, he said, but facing the
water. "That's dangerous," he said.
The existing benches are close to
the road, Barrison said, but backed by
concrete.
He said his group doesn't like the
idea of cluttering up the area in general,
and the new benches would
block fire trucks from getting to the
piers.
In addition to 30 benches, the
plans call for 25 new trees.
Cymbrowitz released the artist's rendering
of the design concept to Bay
Currents on Monday, May 16.
"Those trees would be great in a
park," Barrison said. "This isn't a
park. They will grow and obstruct the
view and their roots will break up the
pavement."
Barrison said the city should be
spending money to take care of the
unique quality of Sheepshead Bay,
providing for the maritime industry.
"In the '80s we had 42 to 45 fishing
boats. Now we we're down to 13."
Barrison said parking should be
provided for the customers of those
boats, as it is in other fishing communites.
The fishing boats provide jobs
and spin-off jobs, like bait and tackle,
marine supply and repairs.
"Sheepshead Bay has lost all that," he
said.
Ben Akselrod, Community Board
15 manager, said he thinks the idea to
spiff up the street was to attract
tourists. But letting what they come
for -- ships, fishing, the experience of
the bay -- dwindle away, Barrison
said, is counterproductive.
The spruce-up may be "window
dressing on a sinking ship," he said.
The Community Board approved
the streetscape plan, but not unanimously.
The vote, among 37 board
members present, was 27 in favor of
the plan, 9 against and 1 abstention,
Akselrod said.
Personally, he said, he thinks it's a
good way to make the area attractive
to tourists and that's "a proper goal."
The money, Cymbrowitz said, is
being provided by the state. His
spokesman, Ozzie Heymann, said the
benches are "completely falling
apart" and the sidewalk is in a dangerous
state on the shore side. The
construction will be on that side, but
only five feet of width at a time, so
pedestrians would be able to pass
without going into the street,
Akselrod said.
"There will be no hazards," he
said.
The entire project will probably be
done in two stages, he said, starting
after Labor Day until severe winter
weather, then completed in spring
2006.
"Do I think this is a proper way to
spend money in Sheepshead Bay?"
Axelrod rhetorically asked.
"Yes. We want our waterway to be
something."
There will be pier numbering on
the cable vaults, but the benches
around them will be stripped away.
Barrison said that's a waste of money;
they can be repaired for much less
than buying the "standard park issue"
ones.
Cymbrowitz said the majority of
the nearly $1 million to be spent is
for repaving which is "desperately
needed."
Barrison said he doesn't object to
all of the plan, just the part that takes
out serviceable benches and "junks
up" the scene.
Cymbrowitz said the objecttions
seem to be more linked to personal
rivalries than substance.
Barrison and Kathy Flynn, president
of Sheepshead Bay/Plum Beach
Civic Association, said the plans
were kept under wraps until the
process was almost a fait accompli.
Even after the Art Commission's
final approval was in, Barrison said
he still hadn't seen clear plans. He
was given a very small picture, he
said, from which it was hard to make
out details.
Akselrod said that when the
streetscape was on the community
board's agenda, the agenda went out
to everyone on the mailing list and
that has included the Bay Improvement Group for years.

sfenn1117
June 19th, 2005, 11:21 PM
I do like Oceana. And that Barrison fellow from the article is an out of control nimby. Who wouldn't want a new esplanade on the water w/ benches and trees? sheesh.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:30 PM
I do like Oceana.

Well Gul thinks its ugly as sin, and Gul is one of the best, most informative posters on this board. We all got opinions. Wanna know mine??? I say Money Talks! :)

Gulcrapek
June 19th, 2005, 11:33 PM
I never said ugly as sin. I said cheap.

I agree with sfenn about the lack of design effort for most new buildings in Sheepshead Bay. It's one thing to have property values increase and the neighborhood to get better financially but it's nothing if the neighborhood is filled with beige brick boxes all looking alike. I saw one building I liked at Bedford and the Belt, it's thankfully different than most. I'll post a picture soon.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:36 PM
And that Barrison fellow from the article is an out of control nimby. Who wouldn't want a new esplanade on the water w/ benches and trees? sheesh.

It looks to me like thats how far the anti-development sentiment has gone in this neighborhood. People are now actually fighting against new benches. Its mindboggling.

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:38 PM
Sorry Gul, you didn't exactly say ugly as sin :)



1) Oceana is unspeakable. Never mention it again.

Gulcrapek
June 19th, 2005, 11:42 PM
Well to be devil's/NIMBY's advocate their argument is that the benches in place now are fine, and they're actually in good shape.

Anyhoo, this is at Bedford Avenue and Shore Parkway.. it looks a lot better in person.

6 floors

http://img88.echo.cx/img88/9602/bedbelt9zl.th.jpg (http://img88.echo.cx/my.php?image=bedbelt9zl.jpg)

The entire block is full of new/newish townhouse things, they aren't so great though. My camera didn't respond well to the late late afternoon light either.

http://img88.echo.cx/img88/3275/bedbelt27fj.th.jpg (http://img88.echo.cx/my.php?image=bedbelt27fj.jpg)

Gulcrapek
June 19th, 2005, 11:44 PM
Ooh, I said unspeakable... I can speak Oceana now. I can get along with it when I think of it as average architecture in a warm beach city. Like Miami and related (though Miami has a lot of cool stuff now). Heavy use of stucco.

sfenn1117
June 19th, 2005, 11:44 PM
I never said ugly as sin. I said cheap.

I agree with sfenn about the lack of design effort for most new buildings in Sheepshead Bay. It's one thing to have property values increase and the neighborhood to get better financially but it's nothing if the neighborhood is filled with beige brick boxes all looking alike. I saw one building I liked at Bedford and the Belt, it's thankfully different than most. I'll post a picture soon.

Maybe cheap but good for the neighborhood and they look alright in my eyes. It's good for Brighton. BTW what part of Brooklyn do you live in?

muscle1313
June 19th, 2005, 11:48 PM
Well to be devil's/NIMBY's advocate their argument is that the benches in place now are fine, and they're actually in good shape.



Gul, I walk by those benches everyday. They are falling aparting and filthy. I don't think I have ever seen benches in such disrepair.

Gulcrapek
June 20th, 2005, 01:19 AM
???

They must have termites or something cause I saw them a couple of months ago and they were fine...

muscle1313
June 20th, 2005, 07:27 AM
They have been falling apart for years. You must be thinking of other benches besides the ones near each pier.

Gulcrapek
July 14th, 2005, 06:59 PM
802 Avenue U
7 floors
20 units and commercial space
Architect: Felix Pustylnik
Site preparation

Might be more in Homecrest.

mimidee01
December 18th, 2007, 02:57 PM
I didn't get to spend a whole lot of time in Sheepshead Bay, but I was blessed to have my Sweet 16 at the Palm Shore Club on Emmons Ave overlooking all those beautiful boats. I was born in Brooklyn in 1963, adopted to wonderful Jewish parents at the time of my birth, and lived in Queens in Rochdale Village ( for those who may remember it) until 1969. Around that time my Dad bought a brand new house in the brand new Paerdegat section of Canarsie just off East 80th & Ave. N I was 5 & my baby brother, Stephen Dubitsky was only 2. My grandparents lived on Ave N. & East 88th. The nicest thing I do recall about Sheepshead Bay, around the time I was 10, was getting to go to the kid's favorite hang out spot every weekend - who could forget the Sheepshead Bay Roller Skate rink. That was the place to be Fri & Sat nights. I went to PS 115, Bildersee JHS, and South Shore HS. I left Brooklyn in 1983, decided to move to Florida, managed to get in to a whole bunch of unmentionable trouble - but FINALLY came out of it on top! In 1997 I found myself in Key West, got me a beautiful daughter (I was 37 when I had her) who is now 7yrs old, and managed to earn 2 college degrees at Florida Keys Community College. I have the most fondest memories of Brooklyn - all of Brooklyn. Everything from the block parties, which people have no clue about anymore, to the times at Coney Island, and the Boardwalk, Nathan's Famous foot long hot dogs, the rides actually coming to the street you lived on - you got to ride for a quarter or .50, Carvel, all the first run Disney movies in the summer at the Canarsie theater; Benji and Herbie the Love Bug, playing ringolivio and mother-may-I in the street, in the winter time shoveling snow from my neighbors front walk ways, and getting their cars out from all the snow (my brother & I made us plenty of money). I'll never forget the days in the fall watching the leaves change to all those pretty colors of reds, oranges & yellow, raking them all up and then jumping in the pile, the days of birthday parties and playing spin the bottle, and then when I got to be about 15 all the nights I spent sneaking out Mom & Dad's house to ride the LL into "the Village" to see Rocky Horror Picture Show at 8th St. Playhouse. Brooklyn was truly a great place to grow up, I promised my daughter one day I would bring her to see the sights and where I used to live, including Seaview Canarsie Park, and the Brooklyn Museum. Anyone who thinks the recognise me or my brothers name feel free to email and continue to share memories of both Sheepshead Bay and Canarsie. mimidee01@comcast.net

brianac
August 18th, 2008, 07:13 AM
Oceana - a residential resort village off Brighton Beach's main drag

By JASON SHEFTELL
Daily New Real Estate Correspondent
Thursday, August 14th 2008, 8:06 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/15/alg_yh_brighton.jpg
Residents enjoy a Saturday at Brighton Beach's Oceana Condominium & Club swimming pool

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/15/amd_yh_brighton_beach.jpg
The beach directly across from the Oceana's 15 buildings

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/15/amd_yh_brighton_apt.jpg
Inside a model apartment

On a summer Saturday at Brighton Beach (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brighton+Beach+(Brooklyn))'s Oceana Condominium & Club, Bentleys and Lamborghinis (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Automobili+Lamborghini+Holding+SpA) cruised the parking lot, a Russian pro wrestler flirted with skimpy bikini-clad beauties in Chanel (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Chanel+SA) sunglasses, and rumors of $1 million condos selling in four hours on Craigslist (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Craigslist+Inc.) sent whispers around the oceanfront pool. One resident told us how in five years he nearly tripled the $390,000 value of his first apartment purchase.

Whether good timing, good building or both, Muss Development's 15-building, 865-unit gated community bordering the Atlantic Ocean (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Atlantic+Ocean) has become one of the city's real estate success stories. In 10 years, it has contributed to Brighton Beach's transformation from lower middle class neighborhood to South Brooklyn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/South+Brooklyn) affluent stronghold.

"This development is responsible for keeping a wealthier group of people in Brighton Beach and bringing people back from Staten Island (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Staten+Island), New Jersey (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Jersey) or Long Island (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Long+Island)," says Jason A. Muss (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Jason+Muss), the principal of the 102-year-old New York (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+York)-based development firm that has built over 15 million square feet across the five boroughs. "It's by far the most luxurious property in that area. People respond to that."

Visible from the elevated B train that stops five minutes from Oceana's gated entrance, the 15-acre site looms over Brighton (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brighton)'s main drag in Walt Disney (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/The+Walt+Disney+Company)-like fashion. Salmon-colored buildings with white balconies and shapely trees form their own little minivillage amidst a crowded, concrete, Eastern European shopping drag.

In the center of the complex sits an oversized pool, a clubhouse with an indoor pool and gym, and a half-moon-shaped grassy knoll leading to a private entrance to the Brighton Beach boardwalk.

"You don't need the Caribbean (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Caribbean) when you live here," says Yuri Rappaport (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Yuri+Rappaport), a building inspector from Moscow (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Moscow), who says the solid building and waterfront location attracted him. "There is so much culture and resort life."

Muss Development, who purchased the property known as the Brighton Beach Baths in 1998, has a history of building large multi-phase developments. They've built the largest nursing home in New York state on Staten Island, and are in the midst of constructing Flushing (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Flushing+(New+York))'s Sky View Parc, a six-building complex with 800,000 square feet of retail bordering Citi Field (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Citi+Field). At Oceana, this experience smoothed the interaction between building completion and early residents' quality of life.

"We had separate entrances for residents and construction trucks," says Muss. "People living there helped us build better. We catered every new building to market demands. We raised ceilings from 9 feet to 9 feet 8, improved the elevators and finishes, and allowed for larger terraces."

Alex Ustilovsky (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Alex+Ustilovsky), Oceana on-site sales agent since it opened in 2000, remembers when the clubhouse and first buildings were completed.
"You would have this big pool with people swimming and then high cranes right behind it," he says. "And then we had tour-bus-sized groups walking through to see the development every 15 minutes. Sales interest was high."

Despite price hikes that put the development as the highest-priced living option in the neighborhood, interest remains high. A 1,171-square-foot two-bedroom two-bath apartment on a lower floor without water views is priced at $685,000. A three-bedroom 1,676-square-foot corner residence facing the ocean starts at $1,275,000. Rentals seem more affordable, with two-bedrooms going for just less than $2,800 per month. According to Ustilovsky, the 39-minute express train from Brighton Beach to downtown Manhattan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Manhattan) attracts a wider living audience to Brighton Beach.

Stockbroker Ken Williams (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Ken+Williams) rented at Oceana to try it out. Once he knew it was home, he waited for his ideal apartment.

"I wanted an apartment with a balcony right on the pool," says a quick-humored Williams, an African-American who thinks he's whom they mean when they call the development "diverse." "I love taking my friends out here for the first time. They can't believe it's Brooklyn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brooklyn). I go from Wall Street (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Wall+Street) to the beach everyday. I'm putting a hammock on my balcony."

Eastern Europeans, who make up the bulk of Oceana's owners, seem baffled by the fast success of the development, which still evokes strong opinions of local residents.

"Russians are usually very frugal people," says Michael Litovsky (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Michael+Litovsky), who lives with his wife and three children in his fourth Oceana apartment. "They started buying so fast here, some people thought their friends had lost their heads."

Litovsky moved back to Brighton with his family from Staten Island, where his two high-school-age children were miserable. "There wasn't much for them to do there," he says. "This is the city. It's a neighborhood with stores, fashion, clubs and bars. They can walk everywhere."

After buying a two-bedroom for $390,000 in 2002, Litovsky since had another child. Moving apartments four times, he has turned profit on each sale, allowing him to live in a three-bedroom valued around $1 million. One of the apartments, with nearly 3,000-square-feet of terrace, allegedly sold in less than one day.

"The people who live here love it and the people who don't live here hate it," says Litovsky, a former musician whose wife is the daughter of a world-class Russian opera singer. "The ones who didn't buy early and don't want to pay the higher prices today say it's no good to live here."

He's not wrong. Just outside the complex on the beach, Moscow-born Igor Vladimirovich thinks people are crazy to pay these prices to live on top of each other. As he speaks, people from the Oceana fill the boardwalk, called Neil Sedaka (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Neil+Sedaka) Way, walking to outdoor restaurants where a late lunch crowd is dining on grilled fish. Toward 9 p.m., ice-cold vodka bottles will be table centerpieces.

By Oceana's pool, people pack up for the day. Mike and Marlene Fine (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Marlene+Fine), who permanently reside on Manhattan's upper West Side, use the Oceana as a summer residence. Marlene, a published poet, grew up in Brighton.

"In the 1950s, my father would sit on the boardwalk with his friends, talking Russian politics and American radicalism," she says. "This brings me back to those childhood moments, gives us the beach, and is easy to get to."

Oceana resident Irving Cohen (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Irving+Cohen), 98, was a lifeguard at Brighton Beach 73 years ago. After moving from the East Side of Manhattan when the complex opened, Cohen walks the boardwalk or Oceana gym treadmill every day.

"I saw the ad and came down to look," he says. "When you live in the city and hear prices of $295,000 to live on the ocean, it's like they're giving it away. That was a few years ago, but it's still less than there [Manhattan]. Plus, it's the beach that keeps me young. Even in the wintertime, I walk. It's nicer because there's less people."

http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/2008/08/14/2008-08-14_oceana__a_residential_resort_village_off.html?p age=0

© Copyright 2008 NYDailyNews.com.

hockeyp
July 8th, 2010, 01:52 PM
Muscle1313 -- I thought Dell's Cheeries were owned and operated by Mondella, not Sal Capece -- Sal married the owner's sister -- but I don't think he owns the company?????

Gulcrapek
September 24th, 2014, 11:12 PM
YIMBY:

30-Story Tower Planned for Sheepshead Bay, Permits Filed at 1501 Voorhies Avenue
http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/09/30-story-tower-planned-for-sheepshead-bay-permits-filed-at-1501-voorhies-avenue.html

I'm not sure how that works with zoning... I guess they'll find out during plans review. It's certainly odd to be putting up a 30 storey building next to primarily 2 and 3 floor neighbors. Zoning aside, I predict if it goes through this will be a hideous building with exposed floorplates, PTAC units, and a dull brick or EIFS facade - just what we've come to expect from AvalonBay.

antinimby
September 28th, 2014, 10:28 AM
Unfortunately, you're probably right about AvalonBay. They pretty much build tall versions of the cheap-looking Fedders we see throughout the city.