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noharmony
November 29th, 2001, 03:16 PM
The Biltmore Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm) is a new development located at 261 West 47th Street, between Broadway and Eighth Avenues, under the partnership of The Moinian Group and Jack Parker Corporation.



$155-Mil Hell's Kitchen Apartment Tower Clears First City Council Hurdle
By Glen Thompson (http://www.globest.com)
Last updated: Nov 19, 2001 09:54AM

NEW YORK CITY-A controversial residential project slated for development in Manhattan's Hell's Kitchen neighborhood won a crucial battle Friday, passing a City Council subcommittee vote despite vehement opposition by a number of neighborhood groups.

What was planned as a 62-story residential tower next to the dilapidated Biltmore Theater at 47th Street and Eighth Avenue has been lopped down to 51 floors with 20% of the units designated as affordable housing. But area residents protested the project vigorously at today's meeting of the Land Use Subcommittee on Zoning and Franchises in an effort to get the developer to agree to drop the building's height to less than 50 stories.



Construction site of the Biltmore Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm) on 9 September 2001. The Paramount Hotel (http://www.wirednewyork.com/hotels/paramount_hotel/default.htm) in the background

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_hotel_digging.jpg



The site of the future Biltmore Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm) on 25 August 2000. The new W New York - Times Square Hotel (http://www.wirednewyork.com/hotels/w_times_square_hotel/default.htm) in the background.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_hotel_25august2000_8th.jpg

noharmony
December 12th, 2001, 10:18 PM
From today's New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com)

December 12, 2001

Dawning of a New Age for the Biltmore
By DAVID W. DUNLAP


It seems like ages since the Age of Aquarius dawned at the Biltmore Theater and recent years have not been kind. Fire swept through it. Water penetrated its walls. Scavengers made off with its fixtures. And all along, the abandoned playhouse seemed to resist every attempt to resuscitate it.

Until now. Ground will be broken today — or at least shovelfuls of glitter will be tossed during a news conference — to mark the impending renovation of the Biltmore, a landmark theater at 261 West 47th Street, which is to be occupied by the Manhattan Theater Club when it reopens in 2003.

The rehabilitation of the Biltmore is tied to the construction of a 51- story apartment tower next door, on Eighth Avenue. Both are being undertaken by Biltmore 47 Associates, a partnership of the Jack Parker Corporation and the Moinian Group, which owns the Biltmore, where the nonprofit Manhattan Theater Club will be a tenant.

Once home to "Hair" and "Barefoot in the Park," but dark since 1987, the Biltmore will emerge from the renovation with a smaller auditorium. The rear wall is to be moved about 22 feet forward, reducing the seating to 650 from 950 and yielding a more intimate space.

"You want the audience to feel as if they're in the same room as what's happening on stage," said Lynne Meadow, artistic director of the Manhattan Theater Club. "We're trying to create a theater that's warm, hospitable and first-rate."

In the space gained by shrinking the auditorium, there will be room for an upper lobby and patrons' lounge, an important amenity for a subscription-based theatrical organization. Another lounge will be gained by fully excavating the basement, in some places through bedrock.

Although the project began to take form more than a year ago, Barry Grove, the executive producer of the Manhattan Theater Club, said it had a special symbolism after the attack on New York, whose awful toll is evident at the firehouse just around the corner from the Biltmore.

"After 9/11," Mr. Grove said, "it's an important project for the theater as we go forward in this difficult and exciting time."

But neighbors are concerned about the impact of a new high-rise on Eighth Avenue — once a low-rise and low-rent area — particularly since the tower next to the Biltmore will be 20 stories taller than zoning would ordinarily allow, a bonus permitted by the city because the developers are rehabilitating the theater.

"When you bring in luxury housing, you change the demographics," said John Fisher, president of the Clinton Special District Coalition, a neighborhood group. "What does a developer need financially to rehab the Biltmore and make a profit? My feeling was, give him what he needs and not a penny more."

The theater renovation has been designed by Polshek Partnership Architects. While the firm is best known for the strikingly modern Rose Center for Earth and Space at the American Museum of Natural History, the Biltmore project is more akin to its work at Carnegie Hall, in which existing features were restored and highlighted.

The rake, or angle, of the orchestra floor will be increased and the stepped seating areas of the balcony will be stretched a bit to create extra leg room. Otherwise, said Duncan Hazard, the partner in charge from the Polshek office, the auditorium will be largely restored and recreated. The project was unanimously approved by the City Landmarks Preservation Commission.

More modern touches will be found on the exterior of the building, which does not have landmark status. For example, there will be a new glass canopy, glass doors and small pinpoint spotlights in the sidewalk.

Even after the Biltmore opens, the Manhattan Theater Club will continue operating its 150- and 299-seat theaters at City Center on West 55th Street, between the Avenue of the Americas and Seventh Avenue.

The organization will announce a $35 million capital campaign today with the goal of raising $8 million for an endowment and $27 million to pay for the renovation and eventual purchase of the building from Biltmore 47 Associates, which Mr. Grove said he hoped to do after five years.

A good deal of the money has already been raised. Mr. Grove said the Manhattan Theater Club board had pledged about $10 million and New York City had appropriated $5 million. Biltmore 47 Associates will also discount the purchase price by $4.65 million, which is counted as a contribution.

The new tower, designed by Schuman Lichtenstein Claman Efron, will have 464 rental apartments, 30,000 square feet of commercial space, 6,000 square feet of retail space and an underground garage with about 60 spaces, said Robert S. Skolnick, executive vice president of the Jack Parker Corporation.



The view of Biltmore Theater (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm) from 47th Street

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_theater.jpg

Rich Battista
December 19th, 2001, 06:09 PM
I feel it is a good thing for this tower to be built, i also beleive in NYC zoning laws, but sometimes they can be a real pain. I hope when this building is built, it will bring a new wave of developments to the area!

Edward
January 24th, 2002, 02:02 PM
A crane is up on the site of construction of The Biltmore (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm). 19 January 2002.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_tower_19jan02.jpg

redbrick
January 27th, 2002, 08:18 PM
Why do people seem to think that a few stories will make a difference?

Derek2k3
February 8th, 2002, 05:55 PM
http://www.moiniangroup.com/images/TheBiltmore.jpg

Rich Battista
February 9th, 2002, 06:05 PM
that is an attractive looking building, sort of Art- Deco with color, how tall are we talkin here?????

Edward
February 18th, 2002, 01:53 PM
Here is the construction update on The Biltmore (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm). 17 February 2002.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_tower_49th_17feb02.jpg

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_tower_48th_17feb02.jpg

Rich Battista
February 19th, 2002, 01:39 PM
nice picture! What is that building to the left side of the page. It looks like off white concrete and i do not think i have seen it before

Edward
February 19th, 2002, 02:06 PM
I think you are referring to Hotel Edison (http://www.wirednewyork.com/hotels/edison_hotel/default.htm). I posted some pictures in this thread (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=98).

Rich Battista
February 19th, 2002, 08:00 PM
thanks Edward, can you answer my question about how tall Biltmore Tower will be?????

Derek2k3
February 19th, 2002, 08:40 PM
Before it was going to be 62 stories but now it's 51 stories, so i guess it's somewhere between 520-550 feet.

Edward
November 19th, 2002, 11:01 AM
Building's website opened at www.thebiltmoreny.com (http://www.thebiltmoreny.com/)

[hr]

New York Times reports:

At the Biltmore, leasing is expected to start in February, said Kimberly Cafaro, a vice president at Jack Parker. The average rents for the studio to two-bedroom units are to be $1,900 to $3,900 a month.


[hr]

The Biltmore Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm) is at 51 floors on August 1st, 2002. The view from Worldwide Plaza (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/350west50th/default.htm) apartment building.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/images/biltmore_tower_wwp_1aug02.jpg

Rich Battista
November 22nd, 2002, 09:13 PM
when will the project be considored "completed" and how far along is it now, have they finished putting up the walls and paneling.

Fabb
January 19th, 2003, 08:06 AM
Picture by TowersNYC :

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3df36b3127cce9385a4e578d60000001410

Rich Battista
January 21st, 2003, 09:32 PM
great picture

JerzDevl2000
January 22nd, 2003, 02:15 AM
Nice pics, the tower is just another in the sea of West Side newbies, but I'll take anything that cleans up 8th Ave....speaking of which, ya gotta love the giant "8 Ave" Street sign bannner on the building, in the last pic. With WWP and the Gershwin, this is turning into a nice residential area!

Eugenius
January 22nd, 2003, 01:18 PM
This thing got built so fast.
Interesting how the tagline to this thread is "receives City Council approval."

Fabb
January 22nd, 2003, 01:43 PM
It doesn't look like the rendering posted above by Derek2K3 in february 2002 :

http://www.moiniangroup.com/images/TheBiltmore.jpg

I must say I like the real thing better.

(Edited by Fabb at 12:44 pm on Jan. 22, 2003)

Kris
January 22nd, 2003, 02:33 PM
You don't like kitsch?

Fabb
January 22nd, 2003, 02:58 PM
You read my mind.

Edward
February 18th, 2003, 09:49 PM
The rental office of the Biltmore is open, however construction still continues on the upper floors. The studios and 1-bedrooms on the lower floors are in move-in condition, and 2-bedrooms on the upper floors will not be ready until June.



The 38-story Worldwide Plaza (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/350west50th/default.htm) apartment building. The northwest view from the 41st floor A-line 2-bedroom apartment of The Biltmore (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm). *15 February 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/350west50th/350w50th_biltmore_15feb03.jpg


The floor plan of the A-line 2-bedroom apartment of The Biltmore (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/biltmore/default.htm). The apartment rents for $6,000/month.

http://www.thebiltmoreny.com/images/pix/twobedpl_a_40-ph.jpg

JerzDevl2000
February 19th, 2003, 02:20 PM
Edward - the last pic looking west to WWP shows why that was maybe the most important building for the 80's. Still looks pretty good today, and not that dated!

Biltmore *isn't bad either, but I think it's high time we got some better residental architecture on the West Side.

Oh yeah, $6,000 a month for an apartment there. Where do I sign?

Edward
March 29th, 2003, 12:43 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/28/nyregion/28REAL.html
NEW YORK TIMES
March 28, 2003
New Eighth Ave. Building Towers Over Neighbors
By RACHELLE GARBARINE


The Biltmore is the latest — and at 51 stories, the tallest — of a string of rental buildings to spring up in recent years along Eighth Avenue in the West 40's and 50's.

The partnership that constructed the $134 million building named it after the neighboring historic theater, which has been closed since 1987 and is being renovated by the same group.

In return for the partnership renovating the theater and purchasing additional development rights, authorities permitted the rental building to soar 18 stories higher than zoning would normally allow.

Situated on the northeast corner of the avenue at 47th Street, the building will have 464 apartments, 35,000 square feet of commercial space in its three-story base and a 61-car garage underground. The building replaces abandoned tenements that stood next door to the 1925 theater.

The construction and renovation projects are being done by a partnership of the Jack Parker Corporation and the Moinian Group. The partnership also owns the theater, where the nonprofit Manhattan Theater Club will be its only tenant.

The Biltmore is one of four rental towers on Eighth Avenue from 47th to 54th Streets that have opened since 1997 and have a total of 1,338 apartments. It is a so-called 80-20 project, where 20 percent of the apartments are offered at rents affordable for low- and moderate-income tenants and the remaining 80 percent are to be leased at market rates.

For setting aside the units below market rate for 30 years, the partners received $134 million in low-rate financing from the New York State Housing Finance Agency.

Jean Pierre Vaganay, chief operating officer at Jack Parker, the managing partner for the building, said the Biltmore overlooks the low-rise Clinton neighborhood, providing clear views of the area and the Hudson River.

Last month, the company began renting out the building's studios, one-bedroom and two-bedroom apartments, with 416 to 1,265 square feet of space. Since leasing began, 62 of the market-rate units have been leased at rents of $1,840 to $7,100 a month, said Kimberly Cafaro, a vice president at Jack Parker. Rents for the lower-income units are $403 to $660 a month.

Andrew Heiberger, president of Citi Habitats, a residential brokerage firm, said that rents per square foot along Eighth Avenue have fallen in the last year by $4 to an average of $50 a square foot annually, and that concessions of one to two months free rent continue. With up to 1,500 more apartments set to be built within a dozen blocks of the Eighth Avenue rentals in the next two years, he said, "All area buildings, in the short term, will be fighting for the same tenants."

Nancy Packes, president of Halstead/Feathered Nest Leasing Consultant and the Biltmore's leasing adviser, added that "with very little new demand, developers have to build a better building to encourage people already in apartments to move." She and Mr. Vaganay said that besides offering competitive concessions, the building is drawing tenants because of its design and amenities like hotel-style valet services and a 13,000-square-foot club that includes an exercise room, terrace and lounge.

James Davidson, a partner at SLCE Architects, which designed the Biltmore rental building, said its facade is angled "to recall the angle Broadway takes through this part of the theater district, enhance the building's shape and create many windows as well as corner views." Some apartments above the 20th floor on the southwest corner of the building angle out by 10 degrees, 5 feet at the maximum, giving impressive views, in many cases through floor-to-ceiling windows.

Getting the project to this point has taken six years. In 1997 the Moinian Group contracted to buy the site, including the theater, if it could acquire development rights over nearby properties. By 1999, however, the group sued the site's owner, the Nederlander Organization, over the initial purchase agreement. The suit ended in a settlement in 2000.

Mr. Vaganay said his company got involved with the project that year because "we had always been interested in the Eighth Avenue corridor as an emerging location," given the redevelopment of the Coliseum site to the north and the revival of 42nd Street. The Biltmore marks the initial residential foray into Midtown Manhattan for the Parker Corporation, which owned or has built 14 residential buildings, totaling 4,546 apartments, elsewhere in the city.

Existing zoning allowed a 33-story building on the Biltmore site. But since the developers had bought additional air rights and agreed to pay $17 million toward the approximately $25 million renovation of the theater, the city allowed more floors to be built.

The theater, once home to such plays as "Hair," is expected to reopen in its refurbished space in October, Mr. Vaganay said. "We look forward," he said, "to giving back to Broadway a historic landmark."

Kris
September 23rd, 2003, 10:39 AM
September 23, 2003

For Venerable Theater, It's a Body Transplant

By DAVID W. DUNLAP

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/09/23/arts/23bilt.span.jpg
The Biltmore Theater's landmarked features have been meticulously restored or replicated as part of a $35 million project.

The Biltmore Theater has not so much been renovated as recreated.

When it reopens next month as an additional home for the Manhattan Theater Club, its ivory-toned and gilt-edged gleam may fool audiences into thinking that the 78-year-old playhouse has had a welcome burnishing. In truth, not much was left to burnish after more than a decade of neglect, vandalism, fire and flooding.

"There was a plaster waterfall coming down the stairs," said Andrew Hamingson, development director of the theater club, recalling his first visit to the Biltmore, 261 West 47th Street, in 2000. "Everything was washing away. Most of the beauty was gone. There was three feet of standing water in the mechanical room and rats swimming around it."

"It reminded me," he said, "of `The Poseidon Adventure.' "

Time was when the Biltmore reminded people of "Hair," "Barefoot in the Park," "My Sister Eileen" and "Deathtrap"; of George Abbott, a co-owner who used it as a showcase; Jean-Paul Sartre, whose "No Exit" was staged there; and Mae West, whose "Pleasure Man" brought in the police.

This season, as the theater club's third stage — the other two are at City Center, 131 West 55th Street — the Biltmore will house "The Violet Hour" by Richard Greenberg, beginning Oct. 16; "Drowning Crow" by Regina Taylor; and "Sight Unseen" by Donald Margulies.

Just how long it will stay the Biltmore remains to be seen. "These things are not only expensive to create but to operate," said Barry Grove, the executive producer. "We're open to a dialogue about naming opportunities."

A new name could be fitting because the theater is new in many respects. There are far fewer seats, more steeply raked floors and a lower stage to foster the intimacy appropriate for theater club productions, which highlight new works and talent. There are ample restrooms and three new lounges, one hewn from bedrock.

But the Biltmore's landmarked features — from the proscenium arch to a vaulted second-floor gallery to the smallest anthemion leaves — have been meticulously restored or replicated as part of the $35 million project, designed by Polshek Partnership Architects.

Such an ambitious undertaking had a high price. Literally.

It was made possible by the construction next door of a 51-story apartment tower, also called the Biltmore, by the Jack Parker Corporation and the Moinian Group. Eighteen of those floors, above and beyond what zoning rules would ordinarily allow, were awarded to the developers by the City Planning Commission as a bonus for rehabilitating the theater.

So tall that it can be seen from Hell's Kitchen Park on 10th Avenue, the Biltmore tower has brought 464 new apartments and an influx of wealthier tenants to a corner where abandoned tenements stood. It adds to the growing sense of gigantism along the Eighth Avenue, to which The New York Times Company will contribute with the 776-foot headquarters it plans to build seven blocks to the south.

"It's nice to see the theater rehabbed, but what's the cost?" asked John Fisher of the Clinton Special District Coalition, which opposed the project. Addressing his own question, he cited the displacement of small businesses and affordable apartments, a greater strain on the infrastructure and a loss of daylight. "The Biltmore is yet another example of how they're dismantling the neighborhood, piece by piece," Mr. Fisher said.

Councilwoman Christine Quinn, whose support of the Biltmore project was deemed crucial by advocates and opponents, said, "That building could have been too tall and too large from the get-go without the public getting any artistic or theatrical benefit.

"Given that reality, it seemed reasonable to say, `Let's let it get bigger' and get a tremendous amount of money dedicated to rehabilitating a landmarked Broadway theater, to take an unused and practically condemned building and make it a beautiful, shining light on Broadway."

As part of its deal with the Manhattan Theater Club, the developers provided $15 million in financing: $10.35 million as an advance on construction costs that is to be paid back with interest and $4.65 million as a contribution. On repaying the advance, the theater club can buy the auditorium for $1.

"When we started the project, we needed somebody to front-end the money," said Peter J. Solomon, chairman of the Manhattan Theater Club. Before donors make good on their pledges, in other words, construction costs have to be met.

With financing in hand, followed by $12 million from the board, $6.4 million from the city and gifts from other foundations and individuals, the theater club was able to reclaim the Biltmore, a goal that had eluded owners and lessees since the 945-seat theater closed in 1987 along with the musical "Stardust." Later that year a fire was set inside the auditorium.

Within a year scavengers and derelicts were entering and leaving the theater with impunity. And with chandeliers and wall fixtures.

The theater club was one of the prospective tenants that decided against the Biltmore in those lean years. "I was concerned that it wouldn't be hospitable to new works," said Lynne Meadow, the artistic director. The auditorium was too long and narrow, with a deep balcony overhang.

What changed things was an idea by Duncan R. Hazard, a principal in the Polshek firm, to move the rear wall closer to the stage by as much as 20 feet and eliminate 295 seats. (His experience at the theater club dates to 1971 when, as an aspiring actor, he appeared in "All Through the House," directed by Ms. Meadow.)

Four broad openings were cut into the central dome. Above them is a network of catwalks supporting the stage lights, eliminating the need for an obtrusive lighting truss suspended in front of the proscenium arch.

And that, in turn, puts the focus on ornament. About 70 percent of the original plaster, including 6,000 feet of molding and 2,500 square feet of ornamental panels and rosettes, was replaced by EverGreene Painting Studios, which employed 18 plasterers for almost a year.

The result is an auditorium whose details would be familiar to Herbert J. Krapp, the original architect, and Irwin S. Chanin, who built it. That is a far cry from the theater club's first home, a three-story rabbit warren on East 73rd Street.

"We'll adjust to what the space demands from us and what we'll demand from the space," Ms. Meadow said. "The theater often tells you what to do, if you listen carefully."


Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

Derek2k3
September 24th, 2003, 12:45 PM
Great news about the renovation. I wonder if the new 776 ft height they gave for the Times' tower is to the roof or to the glass panels.

NoyokA
September 24th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Derek, thanks for pointing that out.

Christian, what's the source?

Kris
September 24th, 2003, 04:03 PM
What do you mean? It's a Times article.

Gulcrapek
August 21st, 2004, 05:12 PM
Early August

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/album50/biltmore.sized.jpg

Derek2k3
August 21st, 2004, 07:22 PM
:x
:::shakes head:::

NewYorkYankee
August 21st, 2004, 08:47 PM
I like it! Nice height! :D

Gulcrapek
August 21st, 2004, 09:08 PM
In my opinion the 8th Ave side is fine, the glass wedge makes it a little more different than the typical residential. The backside, however, is deathly boring.

billyblancoNYC
August 22nd, 2004, 04:01 AM
That is horrid. That slight glass wedge is this only nice part about this lifeless slab.

Lemonsoda
August 22nd, 2004, 07:57 AM
There are buildings that can instill a sense of awe and wonder, or that can impart a spring in one's step. Then there are the countless fillers of varying quality whose overall level of execution can result in a solid median or soulless mediocrity.

This thing sucks the life out of its surroundings. A natural progression when the non-existant quality of execution west of this stretch of Bway is considered.

Who knows, maybe one great building going up ten years ago would have seeded the area with better ideas and fundamentally altered the fabric of "Depression Alley".

A very good reason not to let skyscrapers rip in Hell's Kitchen.

Grrr.

ZippyTheChimp
August 22nd, 2004, 08:09 AM
Cheesy.

Looks a little like...
http://members.aol.com/smurphy110/apts/tribecap.jpg

BrooklynRider
August 23rd, 2004, 11:04 AM
For me, the most disappointing result of these towers is the lifeless commercial strip they create. They come on the market with jacked up rents and we get things like "Staples" or, yet another, "Commerce Bank" replacing the Mom & Pop shops. It really does nothing to create a "vibrant community".

Derek2k3
May 12th, 2005, 01:43 PM
http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/43282622.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/43282648.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/43282644.jpg

Fabrizio
May 12th, 2005, 04:43 PM
The ENTIRE theatre district between b´way and 8th in the 40´s shoulda been landmarked. Low historic buildings and theatres.... a buffer between midtown and the new west side that is to come. This is just another cheap junkey apt. building with those concrete floor lines that they are too cheap to cover over, flimsy window casings and lousy brick work.

The theatre district should retain some of it´s funkiness... fine with the big new buildings on B´way and on 42nd street, but these side streets and 8th avenue should retain some of their patina of history.... if that means a little dirt and grime... fine with me.

sfenn1117
May 12th, 2005, 05:10 PM
I like it :confused:

Not every building can be extravagant or innovative. This is just a nice looking building and it's nice to see some height on 8th ave

BrooklynRider
May 13th, 2005, 10:52 AM
The ENTIRE theatre district between b´way and 8th in the 40´s shoulda been landmarked. Low historic buildings and theatres.... a buffer between midtown and the new west side that is to come. This is just another cheap junkey apt. building with those concrete floor lines that they are too cheap to cover over, flimsy window casings and lousy brick work.

The theatre district should retain some of it´s funkiness... fine with the big new buildings on B´way and on 42nd street, but these side streets and 8th avenue should retain some of their patina of history.... if that means a little dirt and grime... fine with me.

I think the theaters themselves need to be preserved, but the building of this tower financed the renovation and restoration of the historic Biltmore Theater. The theater is one of the best and most comfortable on Broadway (especially because the reduced seating from 850 to 600). Comfy - leg room - bars on every floor - elevator for accessibility.

The Biltmore Tower seems the unfortunate template for ugly buildings on Eighth Ave like that that heap between 53rd & 54th over the old municipal parking lot. That is ugly. U-G-L-Y.

Fabrizio
May 13th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Sorry but the renovation of the Biltmore should have been taken care of with national government funds, tax breaks and other creative incentives.

Would you ever see such cheap flimsy stuff go up in London´s theatre district or in the center of Paris? No.

TLOZ Link5
May 13th, 2005, 07:08 PM
Would you ever see such cheap flimsy stuff go up in London´s theatre district or in the center of Paris? No.

What about Barbican Centre? It tops the "ugly list" in London. Granted that it opened in stages from the '70s to 1982, but it makes Biltmore look like Carnegie Hall. (I speak both of the theaters themselves and their respective tower additions).

BrooklynRider
May 16th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Sorry but the renovation of the Biltmore should have been taken care of with national government funds, tax breaks and other creative incentives.

Would you ever see such cheap flimsy stuff go up in London´s theatre district or in the center of Paris? No.

I'm sorry to say I've not been to London or Paris, so I can't comment.

It's hard for me to buy the argument that the renovation should have been provided for by a government that can't provide medical care to the sick, body armor for its troops, or grant cost of living increases to Social Security recipients and on and on. Thankfully, the Biltmore Tower and Biltmore Theater, in the end, are separate entities.

PHLguy
May 16th, 2005, 03:44 PM
The apartment's are probably quite nice to be honest, I'd live there.

Fabrizio
May 16th, 2005, 03:57 PM
"It's hard for me to buy the argument that the renovation should have been provided for by a government that can't provide medical care to the sick, body armor for its troops, or grant cost of living increases to Social Security recipients and on and on. "

But it can find billions to rebuild Iraq.

kliq6
May 16th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Fabrizio, I partially agree, the side streets with the theaters should be maintained and not ruined. However 8th ave from 42 to 49 looks awful and the buildings have no historical values, they should rip that whole area down and build all new towers

Fabrizio
May 16th, 2005, 05:47 PM
"...they should rip that whole area down and build all new towers".

You might want to consult the folks who actually live in Hell´s Kitchen about that.

I lived on west 46th Street between 8th and 9th (Restaurant Row) all through the 70´s. Times change and some of the transformation of the area is very nice to see, but can´t we protect some of it´s traditional funkiness?.... must everything be squeaky clean and suburbanized towers?

Let´s also remember that plenty of commercial buildings on the streets of Greenwhich Village have "no historical value" but are not going to be torn down anytime soon. Like the Village, Tribeca, SoHo...the Theatre Distrtct (side streets and 8th) should be protected as well, with height restrictions and guidelines for materials and style of new construction and incentives to restore and re-use what is already there.

kliq6
May 16th, 2005, 06:02 PM
like i said not the side streets, just those dilapidated porn shops and othe rurn down buildings right on 8th ave, not the side streets, i go ou tto eat on those streets all the time afterwork. You cant tell me youd rather have those building on eigth then lets say the NY times and the Hearst Tower?

Fabrizio
May 16th, 2005, 06:26 PM
Unlike the Biltmore Tower, The Hearst Building and the Times Tower are high quality buildings by noted architects... but even so, who wants 8th to become a row of them? Also if you're talking about the stretch between 42nd and 49th both buildings fall out side of that area.

kliq6
May 17th, 2005, 11:33 AM
what I ment was to use hearst and times as an stepping stone as to what should go in the 42-49 street areas. Anyone think im wrong, besides fabrizio that that area of the city needs shall we say, HELP

Fabrizio
May 17th, 2005, 12:05 PM
kliq6 you wrote : " Anyone think im wrong, besides fabrizio that that area of the city needs shall we say, HELP"

Can you read English?

NOWHERE in my posts do I say this area does not need help.

I specifically wrote: "the Theatre Distrtct (side streets and 8th) should be protected (......) , with height restrictions and guidelines for materials and style of new construction and incentives to restore and re-use what is already there"

I do not feel as you do however that, "they should rip that whole area down and build all new towers."

kliq6
May 17th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Fabrizio, i dont want to argue thats not my style, but we both have different ideas on what should be done on 8th ave, lets leave it at that. May i ask what area of the city you live in now?

Derek2k3
August 18th, 2007, 03:55 PM
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1238/1161628233_25b104c7cd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1161628233&size=o) http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/1161628241_d267d4c59a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1161628241&size=o)


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1425/1161628173_dc32b98ed0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1161628173&size=o) http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1308/1161628207_f3993183ab.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=1161628207&size=o)