New York Times Tower - 620 Eighth Avenue

[antinimby]

They've completed floor 33, working on floors 34-35.
The building is 63% up.
At this rate, the estimated topping out date should take place in middle to late May.

[vc10]

So how long is it going to take Hollywood to make a movie where the hero and/or heroine ends up hanging from the ceramic rods on the new Times building?

[transplant]

Many thanks to everyone posting comments and great pictures of the building, I've been working on a structural analysis on the NYT tower and have managed to complete a good project with the aid of the photos and banter. I can't wait to see it in person! Although, the building seems a bit more masculine to me than the past comparisons to females. It's a strong man wearing a sheer linen shirt. Thanks to all!

[TLOZ Link5]

So we have a tower which is, at best, "interesting" on sunny days and, at worst, fugly on cloudy ones?

That's more buildings in New York than you think. On cloudy days the aesthetics can be really grim.

[MidtownGuy]

Luckily we have so many crystal clear days here in winter compared to other northern cities.

[BrooklynRider]

By the way, how the H are they going to clean the windows behind those ceramic tubes?

Little spider monkeys with rags will climb up the tubing.

[lofter1]

^ Really? That's just genius!! Renzo is Da Man!!!!

[kz1000ps]

Now that's my laugh out loud moment of the day. The image keeps replaying in my mind haha!

[hella good]

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4764/nytglass38nx.png

[Fabrizio]

"It's a strong man wearing a sheer linen shirt".

Wooof!

[lofter1]

hella good: Nice ... but after staring at it for a chunk of time -- and doing the blur thing -- seems your rendering has induced a flashback :cool:

[TLOZ Link5]

"It's a strong man wearing a sheer linen shirt".

Wooof!

Yes, sounds like this tower would just be fabulous in Chelsea. :D

[londonlawyer]

I noticed today that the side portions of the tower (where the X's are located on the exterior) have bars on the inside. Therefore, what I thought would be transparent glass on either side of the central screen. Piano really likes bars.

[hella good]

yes but if you look closely the west side of the tower does have transparent glass, whereas the east side has windows with horizontal stripes on them.

[Kris]

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/02/22/renzos_nyt_symphony_update_jlo_or_hell_no_.php

[londonlawyer]

yes but if you look closely the west side of the tower does have transparent glass, whereas the east side has windows with horizontal stripes on them.

I noticed that, but I think that the interior panels have not been installed yet on the west side. I hate to sound equivocal again, but some transparent glass would have been nice.

All I know is that when I walk by Hearst, Time Warner, Bear Stearns, Conde Nast, Reuters, etc., I think: "Wow! That's a nice building!" regardless of the weather conditions.

[MidtownGuy]

That's pretty funny- the write up about the thread on Curbed. Thanks for posting.

[TLOZ Link5]

The commentary is less than flattering at times:

1.
idiots. all of them. probably the same people who LOOOVE that banal piece of a hearst tower over up on 57th street.

By lovin' that renzo at February 22, 2006 05:02 PM

[ZippyTheChimp]

"Idiots!"

As the Man With No Name said to Tuco,

"It's for you."

[CARLOS]

Time to time - lapse !! :)


june 2005

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/1bc1bd54.jpg



july 2005

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/41604bb8.jpg





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/7821d3af.jpg





august 2005

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/75af5391.jpg



september 2005

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/a95a79fc.jpg



january 2006

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01128.jpg


february 2006

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01196.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01287.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01285.jpg

[lofter1]

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/02/22/renzos_nyt_symphony_update_jlo_or_hell_no_.php
Congrats to all my fellow posters for getting quoted on CURBED!

(but it seems one has to be having a heart attack or something in order for CURBED to pay attention :cool: )

[londonlawyer]

After doing a 180, I am now going to withhold judgment on this building. I thought that, at least the sides would have clear glass (but for the X's). However, as is evident in these photos, that's not necessarily the case. On the eastern bank of X's, it appears that bars have been applied inside the windows resulting in a greyish appearance to the glass. Note the contrast between the left and right sides.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg

Having no luminous, transparent glass strikes me as somewhat drab.

I genuinely hope that the left side temporarily is not transparent because there's some sort of protective paper on the glass that will come off, and that it does not appear grey because bars were added to the inside. How knows with this building?

[CARLOS]

mmm i wonder , how will they clean the windows..with all those pesty little bars infront of the glass...????

:confused:

[Stern]

For the record I think this building will be gorgeous from the outside, I always have. My complaint is that the beauty is debauchee, the beauty forsakes the tenants. Instead of a view of the Westin to the north, tenants will have a view of the Westin to the north obscured by ceramic rods.

As such this building lacks integrity. Which raises the question if a building cannot be beautiful and functional at the same time what goal should be set higher, that it appears outwardly beautiful, or that it provides the utmost in a modern working environment?

For my sake I’m glad that it’s a looker although it’s false, it’ll look good on the skyline and cityscape nevertheless.


Congrats to all my fellow posters for getting quoted on CURBED!

(but it seems one has to be having a heart attack or something in order for CURBED to pay attention :cool: )

I think its mostly londonlawyer who was quoted on Curbed, although I gave them the heads up about the entire debate...

[londonlawyer]

Hopefully, they'll post my Maria Sharapova photos too. She looks really hot in the bikini.

Seriously though, Stern, look at the photo below and tell me if you prefer the side portions with the x's with clear glass (i.e., the right side) or with bars applied to the interior giving the glass a more opaque look (i.e., the left side)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg
I much prefer the former. I had thought until Feb. 22nd that the glass on either side of the central mesh would be clear giving the building some contrast.

At any rate while this tower may turn out nicely (and I hope that it does), I really don't like Piano. I hate what he did to the Morgan Library.

PS: I can see some elements of the Pompideau Centre in this in terms of the mechanical, cluttered nature of the exterior.

[Stern]

Hopefully, they'll post my Maria Sharapova photos too. She looks really hot in the bikini.

Seriously though, Stern, look at the photo below and tell me if you prefer the side portions with the x's with clear glass (i.e., the right side) or with bars applied to the interior giving the glass a more opaque look (i.e., the left side)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg
I much prefer the former. I had thought until Feb. 22nd that the glass on either side of the central mesh would be clear giving the building some contrast.

At any rate while this tower may turn out nicely (and I hope that it does), I really don't like Piano. I hate what he did to the Morgan Library.

Obviously the glass on the right side which is more transparent. Im a little perplexed as to why the right side is different from the left. Im sure most everyone will agree with me that whether its the gray glass or the transparent glass it should be one or the other and not both in an asymmetrical fashion. That said, blocking the sun on the northside is completely pointless since the sun in NYC is always to the south.

[londonlawyer]

Obviously the glass on the right side which is more transparent. Im a little perplexed as to why the right side is different from the left. Im sure most everyone will agree with me that whether its the gray glass or the transparent glass it should be one or the other and not both in an asymmetrical fashion. That said, blocking the sun on the northside is completely pointless since the sun in NYC is always to the south.

It appears to me that they're placing some sort of bars inside the windows on the parts of the facade with the x's. It seems that they've already started to do so on the left side, and I assume that they will do so on the right side of the building. Therefore, the facade will be uniform, but it will also lose any luminous appearance that I thought the sides would have.

Alternatively, as I mentioned above, perhaps the glass on the left side is covered with a protective paper of some sort that will come off (and that has already come off on the right side).

One of the things that sucks with this project is that there were no reasonably realistic renderings that showed what the tower might look like. Instead, there were ultra-glossy renderings that suggested it would have a skin as luminous as 7 WTC, Hearst or Conde Naste. Clearly, that's not the case.

[Stern]

This is what the building will look like when completed:

http://www.amdrendering.com/new/projects/renzo/nytimesb.jpg

[londonlawyer]

That rendering illustrates my point: it's so cartoonish. One can't get a sense as to what the facade will look like in terms of clarity of the glass, etc. The obscurity of the renderings is demonstrated by the fact that the overwhelming majority of us (if not all of us) were surprised by what the screens actually look like.

[czsz]

Was there a design change? Were the previous renderings deceptions? What was this one?

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/125d-images5Cprojects5Cmainnytimesb.jpg

[palmtree]

Did anyone happen to see the fire on the 10th floor of the tower Wednesday night? I tried to walk down 8th Ave. toward the building, but the cops turned everyone around. I couldn't tell much, but the plastic sheet seemed to have melted.

[Fabrizio]

With these new photos I´m really starting to like this tower. It´s going to be industrial... a little gritty...maybe even a little grim ( too cool to be cheerful). It´s not going to be prissy and shiney.... or "luxurious".... this tower is an intellectual... it´s a snob. It´ll make the new towers in Times Square like the Conde Nast look crass. It doesn´t have the early 2000 cliched styling cues of asymetrical cuts and slashes...and no reflective glass, thank God. I don´t see the usual star-architect ego here. It´s going to sit beautifully with it´s older neighbors... it´ll be "contextual" without apeing the past. I´m liking it!

[lofter1]

Did anyone happen to see the fire on the 10th floor of the tower Wednesday night? ... the plastic sheet seemed to have melted.
Pics, anyone??

Somewhat ironic, as the sheeting at the floor you mention is there to enclose the area as painters apply the fire-proofing paint onto the exposed steel.

[londonlawyer]

I'm curious about other peoples' opinions about the lack of any translucent glass whatsoever on this tower.

Look at the photo below and indicate if you prefer the side portions with the x's with clear glass (i.e., the right side) or with bars applied to the interior giving the glass a more opaque look (i.e., the left side)?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg

I much prefer the former. I had thought until Feb. 22nd that the glass on either side of the central mesh would be clear giving the building some contrast. However, they've started installing bars inside the windows also.

[londonlawyer]

With respect to the lack of reality with Piano's renderings, can someone tell me how he possibly produced these renderings:
http://www.gawker.com/thumbs/NYT.jpg
http://www.fcrc.com/images/projects/mainnytimest.jpg
http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/31big.jpg

This is the reality:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01288.jpg

Also, Piano falsely describes this tower as follows on his website: "Each architecture tells a story, and the story this building proposes is one of lightness and transparency...."

Is this light and transparent in your opinion?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01288.jpg

[lofter1]

...they've started installing bars inside the windows also.
From what I've seen close up I don't think they are installing bars inside, but rather some of the window panels are comprised of glass with etched / frosted lines.

[aural iNK]

Without having seen the building first hand, I'm under the impression that they're not bars inside of the windows that you're seeing but some sort of etched glass that gives it that effect:

http://www.pbase.com/image/55257529.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes12c5dw.jpg

Its amazing how opaque this makes the windows appear in certain light. The effect is quite noticable on the right side of this shot:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01288.jpg

[Fabrizio]

Re: "Light and transparent": Yes, in that photo it indeed looks "light".... the mesh adds depth, a 3d quality and it looks like it´s floating over the surface. As far as transpaent goes... we´ll see. How many renderings often show beautiful transparent glass and then the reality is dark or reflective... you might want to take a look at the original renderings of the Time Warner or the Astor Place tower.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Transparent (http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=transparent) is a subjective term.

[lofter1]

Piano falsely describes this tower as follows on his website: "Each architecture tells a story, and the story this building proposes is one of lightness and transparency...."

Is this light and transparent in your opinion?
Lightness and transparency are dependent upon a light source...

With the building in the current uncompleted stage the interior is basically a black hole, so neither the lightness nor the transparency are now apparent.

Everything will be different when this beauty is fully formed.

[Fabrizio]

Especially in Italian... it´s very "trasparente".

[lofter1]

Transparent (http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=transparent) is a subjective term.
Aha, so what Piano really meant by "transparency" and "lightness" ( http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=lightness ) was:

SHAMELESS SHENANIGANS !!

[londonlawyer]

From what I've seen close up I don't think they are installing bars inside, but rather some of the window panels are comprised of glass with etched / frosted lines.

I don't think so. Whatever the applied to the inside of the glass on the left side, they've started to apply to the inside of the glass on the right side.

If enormous floodlights are focused on the exterior of this building at all times, it will look luminescent!

Anyway, this will be a unique building and might turn out to be quite nice.

Moreover, the grey facade is an appropriate home for the Gray Lady!

[MidtownGuy]

With these new photos I´m really starting to like this tower. It´s going to be industrial... a little gritty...maybe even a little grim ( too cool to be cheerful). It´s not going to be prissy and shiney.... or "luxurious".... this tower is an intellectual... it´s a snob. It´ll make the new towers in Times Square like the Conde Nast look crass. It doesn´t have the early 2000 cliched styling cues of asymetrical cuts and slashes...and no reflective glass, thank God. I don´t see the usual star-architect ego here. It´s going to sit beautifully with it´s older neighbors... it´ll be "contextual" without apeing the past. I´m liking it!


nicely put Fabrizio!

[NYatKNIGHT]

I thought those bars you guys are referring to were some sort of blinds, either inside a double pane or just on the interior side. Looks like it anyway.

[macreator]

You know what I realized? Piano never presented a daytime rendering of the Times building..... Does anyone else find that odd?

[MidtownGuy]

The debate over the transparency of this building reminds me that the operations of the newspaper to occupy it aren't all that transparent either.

You know, all the stories they have been sitting on/ignoring/obfuscating. As a news source, I lost my respect for this paper long ago, now I look to it only for cultural items. Oh, and hopefully a handsome skyscraper....

[smackfu]

That one photo showing the struts crossing in an X over the nearly opaque windows looks so familiar. Especially the exposed beams. I swear I've seen that before, although it was with real metal panels or louvers, not glass.

[Citytect]

There aren't bars inside the windows. What you are seeing are the mechanical shades.

Seems like there's a lot of misinformation and speculation going on in this thread. There is a great article from Metropolis Magazine (http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0504/nyt/index.html) posted earlier that provides extensive information about the lighting system used on this tower. Take a look back at it. It answers a lot of questions. It also has a nice rendering that shows what I believe to be a more accurate representation of what the building will look like when finished.

http://www.metropolismag.com/images/images_0504/nyt/NYT_southelevation.jpg

[NYatKNIGHT]

Mechanical shades, that's what I meant. Blinds, shades, whatever.

Great link, thanks. I think it reinforces that this building will be great inside and out.

[Teno]

Sometimes we forget about the Awesome Crazy that can bubble up at discussion board Wired New York.


Seems Curbed at best is entertained by comments made here on Wired and at worst is laughing at them.

[londonlawyer]

Seems Curbed at best is entertained by comments made here on Wired and at worst is laughing at them.

Whor cares what those idiots think? I doubt that Herbert Muschamp is the anonymous hand behind Curbed.

We are the guys who loved NYC and love architecture.

[czsz]

Loved?

[TLOZ Link5]

Seems Curbed at best is entertained by comments made here on Wired and at worst is laughing at them.

Who the hell cares? If the best that some commentators there can do is snicker about us from the safety of their own site, that says plenty about them.

As they say, enemies are a sign of character.

[Fabrizio]

The official rendering of the Time Warner:

http://www.onecentralpark.com

Does that skin look ANYTHING like the finished product? Why so hard on Renzo?

[TLOZ Link5]

The official rendering of the Time Warner:

http://www.onecentralpark.com

Does that skin look ANYTHING like the finished product? Why so hard on Renzo?

I think it's more of a reputation issue. TWC was designed by Skidmore, which is a pretty generic, if prolific, firm. Renzo Piano is a "starchitect", so the expectations for his design were much higher.

[londonlawyer]

The official rendering of the Time Warner:

http://www.onecentralpark.com

Does that skin look ANYTHING like the finished product? Why so hard on Renzo?

It looks close. The TWT has a very high gloss, shimmering facade. Piano's renderings suggested that the NYT tower would also, and he describes the tower as "light and transparent." Firstly, the tower's facade, unlike the TWT's, is not glossy and shimmering. It is extremely smoky.

Moreover, the NYT tower is anything but light and transparent. It might turn out to be an interesting (though not necessarily) beautiful building, kind of like the Pompideau Center or Lloyd's. Nevertheless, it is absolutely nothing like what he claimed it would be.

Regardless of what happens with the NYT, his addition to the Morgan Library is horrible, and I pray that his plans for the Whitney are not fulfilled. That he wanted to tear down magnificent brownstones on Madison leads me to question his motives. Also, the horrible metal box that he proposes for the Whitney and the horrible addition that he ruined the Morgan Library with truly belies his false claim that he's interested in a building's surroundings.

As I said, I hope that the NYT emerges as a great building, but I don't like his work. The Morgan addition utterly sucks.

[Fabrizio]

"It looks close."

Well then look again.... that rendering and the finished product are two COMPETELY different buildings. In the renderings the skin is so translucent that the individual floors are defined.... the finished building is a solid reflective mass. A huge difference.

Star architect or no..... we can go on and on with glamourous renderings that look nothing like the finished product.

[londonlawyer]

http://www.bus.umich.edu/RossB-SchoolGift/img/Exterior-Taxi_lg.jpg

http://www.arrakeen.ch/usacan/028%20%20Time%20Warner%20Center.jpg

I walk by it every day. How often do you see it?

[Fabrizio]

Post a pic under full daylight... does it ever look like this? : http://www.newsday.com/nyc-timegallery0218,0,7835203.photogallery?index=1


I´m sure the Times´ full glory will also come out during the right lighting conditions.

[londonlawyer]

Piano's debacle at the Morgan Library:

http://www.usemenow.com/web-log/renzo5.jpg
http://www.arup.com/lighting/images/morgan1_416.gif
http://www.nyc-architecture.com/MID/model_36_st.jpg

He should not be allowed to touch the Whitney. For some reason, he loves opaque metal panels. How he could have marred a magnificent, classical building with solid, metal boxes is beyond me.

[Fabrizio]

I have to admit I like this:

http://www.usemenow.com/web-log/renzo5.jpg

It looks like the old E J Korvettes.

[londonlawyer]

By the way, Fabrizio, are you originally from NY? How do you know Korvettes?

PS: I'd like to address light and traslucenst qualities with respect to another topic, namely: Maria Sharapova.
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/features/2006_swimsuit/images/galleryindex/bk_model_msharapova_02.jpg

Could she be any more perfect?

[vc10]

Looks like the facade of a small power station or other boring industrial facility.

I have to admit I like this:

http://www.usemenow.com/web-log/renzo5.jpg

It looks like the old E J Korvettes.

[londonlawyer]

It's horrible. While the NY Times Tower might turn out to be a masterpiece (albeit different from what we expected), the addition to the Morgan Library is putrid, and the renderings that I've seen for the Whitney are even more horrific.

[lofter1]

Is that the final exterior material for the Morgan Library?

[londonlawyer]

Yes, and it's horrible. The magnificent Morgan Library deserved more than a 3 story story cube in which the top 2 floors have a white metal facade and the first floor is a glass panel.

It would be nice if the Morgan Library recognizes its mistake in hiring Piano and retains someone competent like Gehry, Calatrava or Foster to add a new facade over the cube. This is no Bilbao Guggenheim!

[ZippyTheChimp]

33 floors

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/4127/nytimes14c6ob.th.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes14c6ob.jpg) http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/8084/nytimes15c5iq.th.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes15c5iq.jpg)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/434/nytimes16c5zc.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes16c5zc.jpg) http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6642/nytimes17c9gx.th.jpg (http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes17c9gx.jpg) http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9746/nytimes18c9mt.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes18c9mt.jpg) http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1383/nytimes19c8fn.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes19c8fn.jpg)

[lofter1]

At about 3PM Friday I was walking south down 8th Ave. towards the TT -- and seeing the sun playing off of the few pieces of the rod curtain that have gone up on the west facade actually did give the building a lacey, ethereal and shimmering presence. Then as I passed the tower and looked back it was great to see all of the shadow effects that the sun made shining through the rod screens and onto the glass in the cut-away corner rising up from 40th & 8th. The lines of the shadows cutting across the etched lines in the windows makes for some very graphic effects.

The surface of this building were be ever-changing -- as the sun moves across the sky -- and from season to season --from day to night.

Hoping that nothing too big goes up to the west that will hide this beauty -- for a while, at least -- so the view shown in Zip's pictures can remain a part of NYC skyline.

[londonlawyer]

While I am not a Piano convert (due to my nausea caused by the Morgan Library), the NYT Tower has grown on me. I hope, however, that the facade on the sides of the screens where the x's are will look like it does in the right portion of the following photo (i.e., transparent) and not as it does on the left side (i.e., smoky).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/image/55257529.jpg
Someone suggested that the mechanical shades may be deployed on the left side which gives it the opaque appearance. The possible difference is evidenced by the following photos from the model in Queens:

http://www.metropolismag.com/images/images_0504/nyt/B26V0173.jpg

versus

http://www.metropolismag.com/images/images_0504/nyt/B26V0606.jpg

[antinimby]

This is what it should look like by that time.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/2404nytimesbase.jpg

[krulltime]

Great photos ZippyTheChimp!

Now I don't want anything to be built on 42nd and 8th. You know that empty lot.

[raskolnikova]

Liberty Science Center is creating an exhibition called Skyscraper! Achievement and Impact.

They are filming and photographic the whole construction of this NYT building for one of the exhibits. A sample of the time-lapse video, some interviews and pictures can be seen at

http://www.lsc.org/skyscraper/highlights.html

:)

[TallGuy]

It strikes me that the surfact color, with 'New York Times' splashed across it, does indeed resemble the same color of news stock. This may indeed turn out very striking!

[lofter1]

Liberty Science Center ...

A sample of the time-lapse video
cool -- but only showing the tower up to ~ floor 16. It will be great to see this as it's updated ...

[ZippyTheChimp]

It strikes me that the surfact color, with 'New York Times' splashed across it, does indeed resemble the same color of news stock. Good observation. I wonder if they realize that.

Maybe you should sell the description to NY Times PR.

[lofter1]

It strikes me that the surfact color, with 'New York Times' splashed across it, does indeed resemble the same color of news stock. This may indeed turn out very striking!
::ahem:: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=74395&postcount=751

[londonlawyer]

This building really is pretty cool.

I'm relieved also to learn that the opaque glass on the northeastern part of the tower, unlike the clear glass on the northwestern part of the tower, is due to the blinds being installed and that they will move up and down giving the northern facade clear glass at times.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg

[lofter1]

I hate to break it to you, LL, but what you're seeing there are not the blinds (who in their right mind would be installing blinds at this stage of construction??).

That section of windows on the NE corner has lines in the glass. You'll see it in various areas through out the building.

[londonlawyer]

I hate to break it to you, LL, but what you're seeing there are not the blinds (who in their right mind would be installing blinds at this stage of construction??).

That section of windows on the NE corner has lines in the glass. You'll see it in various areas through out the building.

That's what I thought, but someone sais that they're the electronic blinds. It made no sense to me.

[londonlawyer]

I hate to break it to you, LL, but what you're seeing there are not the blinds (who in their right mind would be installing blinds at this stage of construction??).

That section of windows on the NE corner has lines in the glass. You'll see it in various areas through out the building.

Do you know if thenorthwest corner will also have lines in the glass? Personally, I much prefer the northwest side. It would be odd, however, to have two different looking facades on either side of the screen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg

[TallGuy]

Do you know if thenorthwest corner will also have lines in the glass? Personally, I much prefer the northwest side. It would be odd, however, to have two different looking facades on either side of the screen.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01291.jpg


The back of the building with either have a large ad for this week's sale at Pathmark or the latest rebates from your tri-state Ford dealer! :)

[lofter1]

Do you know if thenorthwest corner will also have lines in the glass? Personally, I much prefer the northwest side. It would be odd, however, to have two different looking facades on either side of the screen.
From what I've seen at the building site and on various websites it appears that the "lined" glass will be installed on the NE & SE indents. Seemingly un-"lined" glass will be going in on the NW & SW corners (the SW corner houses an interior stair case that serves the NY Times offices -- and is shown on the vid that they used to do light studies for the automatic lighting & interior shading systems).

It also appears that some additional "lined" glass will be installed at various other places thru out the building. It seems that the different types of glass are being used to delineate the spaces -- and how the use of those spaces relate interior <> exterior.

[lofter1]

more on the windows ...

[BrooklynRider]

The back of the building with either have a large ad for this week's sale at Pathmark or the latest rebates from your tri-state Ford dealer! :)

That cracked me up.

[krulltime]

From the top of the Empire State Building. March 1, 2006:


http://i.pbase.com/o4/55/435155/1/56705819.18.JPG

http://i.pbase.com/o4/55/435155/1/56705855.19.JPG

[londonlawyer]

This building has grown on me. It's awesome.

Also, I now think that the cladding on the north-south facades, which started taking shape first, looks great. However, the cladding on the east-west facades, which is now becoming visible, truly is superb!

[Stern]

Dude, you change your mind on this building every two seconds...

[londonlawyer]

I know. I'm firmly in the "yes" camp now though. It's a very unique, industrial-looking building and reminds me somewhat of Lloyd's and the Pompideau Centre. It's not a traditional beauty, but it's quite cool.

[antinimby]

For those of you who may be wondering, the building will top off close to where the top of those cranes are right now.

[czsz]

Impressive.

[sfenn1117]

A new westside landmark in the making....A beautifully unique tower.

http://i2.tinypic.com/ouw6qv.jpg

http://i2.tinypic.com/ouw6yd.jpg

[pianoman11686]

Those four floors at the bottom of the building, to the right of the X braces, look so well done in that angle. I think this building will look sleek. Residential developers take note: that is how you want floorplates to look.

[antinimby]

I would still like to see the steel go behind the glass.
If only we could have 7WTC's glass with the NYT's shape...wow!

[lofter1]

The magnificent Morgan Library deserved more than a 3 story story cube in which the top 2 floors have a white metal facade and the first floor is a glass panel.
I walked by the Morgan today -- looking at the 5th Ave. facade from directly across the street I gotta admit it looks like the box the Hulk came in.

However, from every other angle -- other than direct on -- it looks good.

Maybe when they plant the trees as are shown in the renderings ...

[lofter1]

sfenn: good shots.

gives new meaning to the status of a corner office, eh?

[londonlawyer]

I walked by the Morgan today -- looking at the 5th Ave. facade from directly across the street I gotta admit it looks like the box the Hulk came in.

However, from every other angle -- other than direct on -- it looks good.

Maybe when they plant the trees as are shown in the renderings ...

While I am a convert to the NYT, I still don't like the Morgan. It deserved something much better.

[londonlawyer]

Those four floors at the bottom of the building, to the right of the X braces, look so well done in that angle. I think this building will look sleek. Residential developers take note: that is how you want floorplates to look.

Bear in mind though the the X's look best in the northwest and southwest corners because the glass in those sections is clear. In the northeast and southeast corners, it's smoky and does not look as good.

Do you see the difference in the following photo?

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1545&d=1141055856

[ddjiii]

Someone questioned earlier whether the designers had thought of ice and snow formation on the rods. This from the Metropolis article linked earlier: (http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0504/nyt/index.html)

"Countless studies have been completed, even an extensive one on ice and snow formation on the ceramic rods."

The article goes on to call the building possibly "the most analyzed, tested, and studied building scheme in the country."

I think it's great that the designers and owners had the foresight to do all this before the building was built. The usual practice is to experiment on the tenants and the public, with (at best) lessons being applied to the next building.

[HoboGuy]

Walked by the building today and a couple of observations

-The building looks way better in person than in the pictures
-The rods do look white and really good
-The clear glass withought those blinds plays off the rods better than the smokey look of the glass with the blinds

-One really big point is that they are going to have to repaint the steel b/c they did a really terrible job on some of it. You can see the dark of the steel coming through the whitish / gray color they painted on.

-Also I think this building is going to weather terribly b/c of all the exposed steel. It will take a lot of maintenance and it will be hard with all those rods and small spaces to work in.

It is going to look tall and commanding because there is nothing really around it.

btw. Hearst looks fat and awkward looking up 8th. but I like that building regardless.

[finnman69]

Walk by it and see it in person. It looks horrible at this stage, and it looks NOTHING like the renderings. When a 750 foot curtain of steel rods has fully risen, it will look horrific. Gehry must be laughing hard.

Piano really should be banned from NY. I hope that the Whitney -- seeing this disaster -- comes to their senses and fires him before he defiles the Upper East Side with his ridiculous 20 story, windowless, metal box.

Gehry is an overrated skin obsessed sculptor. All surface, no scale, no space.

The NY Times Tower will be a great building, especially when it's lit up at night.

BTW, Im not happy with the Morgan addition.

[londonlawyer]

I've really come to like the NYT from when I initially wrote that. As I mentioned recently, it's really unique and reminds me of Lloyd's or the Pompideau Centre.

[Jake]

I'm already getting ready for a dissapointment. Here's my logic...

NYT promised a glowing, entirely lit tower that eminated light into the sky....yet they are implementing energy saving devices all over this building, in fact the whole building is designeded as energo-efficient. I hardly think that a company so concerned with lighting costs will light this thing at night.

Just as every building in NYC, they all promise lit spires and changing colors a-la-Empire State, and nobody goes through with it.

In addition crowns and spires are most often the components that are where builders look to save costs as teh building's price tag runs over.

[LeCom]

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440188.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440192.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440198.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440190.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440191.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440189.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440193.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440196.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440197.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440194.jpg

[Stern]

Great pics. I have to admit I really like the way this building looks from the outside.

[MidtownGuy]

Saw it in person again. It will be exquisite, I am now convinced.

[londonlawyer]

Saw it in person again. It will be exquisite, I am now convinced.

I agree.

This angle shows its delicious, Maria Sharapova quality:

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440189.jpg

[antinimby]

Does anyone else notice the column that's to the left of these guys, don't look like it's exactly straight? Which leads me to ask, do construction work get inspected for quality or workmanship?

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/440196.jpg

[lofter1]

It seems that it looks crooked due to the uneven coating of fireproofing material that has been sprayed onto the column. If you look at the close-up (below) you can see it more clearly -- and that the straps from the safety lines apparently have cut into the fire-proofing and knocked some of it off.

Also interesting is the reflection of the one workers head in the steel hat of the other ...

[lofter1]

An even closer look ... who is that reflected in the hat???

[ZippyTheChimp]

NY Times from the Farley Building
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/2980/nytimes20c4ql.th.jpg (http://img349.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes20c4ql.jpg)

[jiw40]

Mr. Nimby,to answer your question,yes there compliance inspectors on erecting jobs.Usually it means checking bolts for proper torque,ultrasound testing of full penetration welds and general compliance with current installation procedures.The "straightness" or plumb of the building is measured by survey engineers for documenting by the erector to verify to the trades that follow that the iron is within acceptable tolerances for plumb.Such as the two guys in the picture.They're ornamental ironworkers preparing attachment clips for the curtain wall.In the case of the piece they're sitting on,though,it should have been checked for level before the bolts were tightened.Don't want droopy cantilevers,as mom used to say.
The plumbing up is done on the top of the building,before tightening bolts and welding.That's what all the cable X's are for on top.They usually are left in place until the concrete is poured on those floors.

[czsz]

I hope someone replaces that little Duane Reade across from Penn Station someday...

[antinimby]

jiw40 - Thanks for the info. That's reassuring to know. I'm always worried about something disasterous happening. Remember the parking garage in Atlantic City that was under construction collapsed a couple years ago? And also the story with the Citigroup building?

czsz - It's amazing that much potential building space is not used when it's just across the street from Penn Station!

[jiw40]

That parking garage in Atlantic City was concrete.As was the Galleria that collapsed in Connecticut about 16-17 years ago.That was a lift slab job where they pour the floors then jack them up the columns.They lifted a floor and the concrete collapsed.This technique is not permitted in the city,but it is used in Westchester.
The Citigroup situation was a 1 in 10,000,00 situation that needed to be dealt with because it became documented and made public.(The building was substantially reinforced after this and again in 2002,due to post 9/11 concerns).That building was way ahead of it's time considering that it has a dampener on top and no corner support at the lower floors.It's hard to appreciate the forces at work when all four corners of a building that size are cantilevers.(Try that with concrete!)
You could also take note of the cantilevers on the Times building.That's what all those X braces are dealing with.But I'm starting to carry on, because you seem interested and I like to talk about the job.So,"Carry on Dudes".

[ZippyTheChimp]

I hope someone replaces that little Duane Reade across from Penn Station someday...
Vornado/Related transferred the air-rights from the Farley annex to the Duane Reade site. Expect something big there, unless someone decides that the millions of Duane Reades around the city need to be landmarked.

[antinimby]

Vornado/Related transferred the air-rights from the Farley annex to the Duane Reade site. Expect something big there, unless someone decides that the millions of Duane Reades around the city need to be landmarked.Happy!!:D
Now we just need the tenants to come.

[antinimby]

This technique is not permitted in the city,but it is used in Westchester.In your opinion, do you think the city's construction codes/standards/practices is up to par with the leading international standards?

[NewYorkYankee]

I went by this building yesterday, isnt it supposed to be up to about 30 storeys by now? It looks short.

[lofter1]

It's up to about 36!

[antinimby]

It looks short.The three words men are the most scared of hearing.

[NYguy]

Vornado/Related transferred the air-rights from the Farley annex to the Duane Reade site. Expect something big there, unless someone decides that the millions of Duane Reades around the city need to be landmarked.

Right, that plan included about 1 msf for a residential tower. But with Vornado's new plans for the MSG site, who knows exactly what will get built where...

[antinimby]

Right, that plan included about 1 msf for a residential tower. But with Vornado's new plans for the MSG site, who knows exactly what will get built where...Please God NO!
No residentials in that area.
Office, office and some more offices.

[londonlawyer]

Vornado/Related transferred the air-rights from the Farley annex to the Duane Reade site. Expect something big there, unless someone decides that the millions of Duane Reades around the city need to be landmarked.

The Duane Reade site is one of the sites that I want to see redeveloped. Another one in that area that I want to see redeveloped is the horrible corner just north of it with all of that Riese crap.

[lofter1]

The NE corner of 34th & 8th is ripe for something terrific -- but from the looks of it there are about 12+ different building lots (from just west of the Pennsylvania Building at 225 W. 34th up to the McDonalds around the corner on 8th) so acquiring all those bits will take some foresight and fortitude.

http://www.14to42.net/images/pennbldg.jpg

Who knows, maybe somebody is already wrapping that up.

But I agree: If this corner doesn't get changed it will be a huge minus for the area.

And then, after that's done, there is that skeezy block just south of Farley on the west side of 8th (parking lot, etc.) ...

[londonlawyer]

I agree that it would be difficult to acquire the whole site. Maybe a developer can hire John Gotti, Jr. to torch all of the crap, and thereby free up a huge development site in a matter of hours.

PS: That Pennsylvania Bldg. in the background is superb!

[antinimby]

Believe it or not, I'm hoping they won't develop those sites too soon. Maybe when all this residential demand blows over, we can get some nice office towers out of it, along with lots of retail on streetlevel, of course. Kind of like what happened with Times Square. With proper vision and great execution, the whole 34th St./Penn Station corridor can potentially be even more successful than even TS. It's got subways, Penn Station (TS doesn't), shopping (more than TS) and sports (MSG).

[czsz]

Office tower streets are more likely to be like 6th Avenue than Times Square, IMO. Over time, at least, residential neighbourhoods will be more lively.

[londonlawyer]

I walked by this project today (March 8th) and am becoming extremely fond of it. Its facade is actually quite luminous (especially in bright sunlight like we had today). This building initially took me by surprise, but it is awesome. It makes up for Piano's crap design for the Morgan Library.

[antinimby]

Office tower streets are more likely to be like 6th Avenue than Times Square, IMO. Over time, at least, residential neighbourhoods will be more lively.Why does it have to resemble 6th? On the other hand, residentials can be like Park Ave. too, so it goes both ways. It all depends on how it is done.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Times Square did not become the way it is today because of the office towers. It was a lively entertainment center for most of the 20th century. The crime and decay drove away the entertainment, but the tradition was always there. The office towers removed the blight, and Times Square returned to its traditional role - although a little too scrubbed up.

[antinimby]

Right. That's my point, office buildings don't necessarily mean 6th Ave. sedateness and Times Square is a good example. In fact, if you were to make that area residential, you would actually make it less bustling. Besides, we know residential community groups are never fond of crowds so if you move residents in, it'll be like a death knell to the area, as they will no doubt work to make the area less vibrant.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Well, I was agreeing with czcz.

There is a greater chance that too much office development will lead to a 6th ave environment.

To restate, Times Square liveliness has nothing to do with the office towers. If you remember the original EDC redevelopment plan, there was concern that the office towers would kill the entertainment nature of the area, and it was scrapped. Times Square developed haphazardly while the city and state debated what they should do next.

One or two residential towers is not going to turn this stretch of 8th ave into a residential community - not with Penn Station and MSG nearby.

Don't be surprised if you see a mixed-use hotel.

[antinimby]

My point was never to say that the office towers in TS is what made it lively. My point is that office towers don't necessarily make it sedate either, which is what czsz's is saying it will do. My reply is that it doesn't necessarily have to be sedate if done properly, such as to continue with the current practice of blending a lot of shopping, restaurants, hotels, entertainment, sports and so on. The buildings in and around the Herald Square/34th St./Penn Station area are currently occupied by a lot of offices and yet the area is just as bustling as Times Square. I never thought a few residentials would make the area dead, but too many residentials will.

[jeffpark]

were is the D/W store

[lofter1]

Whats does "the D/W store" mean?

[londonlawyer]

Whats does "the D/W store" mean?

I was wondering the same thing.

[lofter1]

Office tower streets are more likely to be like 6th Avenue ...
The big difference between 8th Ave / 6th Ave is that before 6th was cleared in the 60s to make way for the current towers that area was much more low rise than 8th Ave is now.

The majority of the buildings now lining 8th Ave between 34th <> 40th are ~ 20 stories.

The pics below give an idea of what the area just to the west across 6th Avenue looked like back then in the 1930s, 40s and 50s (sorry for the distortion; some were pretty tiny so I blew them up).

[CARLOS]

as of today March 8, 2006



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01357.jpg





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01359.jpg





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01363.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01364.jpg

[czsz]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01359.jpg

A prison rises...

[alonzo-ny]

Hopefully this will be topped out for my arrival in june

[RS085]

it should be. by that time BOA should be above ground.

[antinimby]

Looks like the glass installers are starting to catch up to the fire protection applicators.

[lofter1]

it should be. by that time BOA should be above ground.
The steel is above street level for the Tower at BOA now ;)

[mgp]

Hopefully this will be topped out for my arrival in june

I had heard that they were topping out in August, but maybe with the relatively mild winter they picked up a couple of weeks in their schedule...

[panderson]

here's a nice series of times tower pics, including some close-up shots of work being done on the curtain wall (these aren't mine -- i just spotted them on flickr. thanks to emilygeoff, whoever you are)

http://flickr.com/photos/emilygeoff/110639903/in/photostream/

[michelle1]

here's a nice series of times tower pics, including some close-up shots of work being done on the curtain wall (these aren't mine -- i just spotted them on flickr. thanks to emilygeoff, whoever you are)

http://flickr.com/photos/emilygeoff/110639903/in/photostream/
Thanks for the link

[alonzo-ny]

The steel is above street level for the Tower at BOA now ;)

Its about time i was still in new york when the cranes went in and that was september

[antinimby]

Hopefully this will be topped out for my arrival in juneAlonzo-ny, not only will it be topped out by June, the facade will have already reached 2/3 of the building. Two months after that, in August the facade will be complete all the way to the top. The spire will make an appearance before the end of the year.

[CARLOS]

March 12, 2006
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01372.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01373.jpg

[ablarc]

Too bad all that shimmering emphasizes the horizontal.

[NYguy]

MARCH 12, 2006

Rainy Sunday...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203326/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203331/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203502/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203519/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203583/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203693/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203730/medium.jpg_http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203791/medium.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/57203502/large.jpg

[Fabrizio]

"Too bad all that shimmering emphasizes the horizontal".

It´s beautiful...but uh... can we take off those damn screens already? Compared to those great old loft buildings in the foreground, the window openings of the Times are starting to look like horizontal slits. Oh well....

The x-frame part is brilliant though.

Hey... anybody up for tearing down the Westin? London?

[lofter1]

But when it's all up and that shimmering continues up 50 floors it will be the verticality that you notice ...

[NYguy]

The x-frame part is brilliant though.

Its the best part of the building, and what will pull it through...


Hey... anybody up for tearing down the Westin? London?

I guess we have to take the good with the bad, especially on 8th Avenue. For every Hearst Tower, there may be a Westin. But its 42nd St, so I give the colors a pass...

[evil_synth]

I was driving down the west side highway saturday afternoon and this building looked pretty cool from a distance. All the white bars are definately a unique look, especially from far away.

[debris]

Is the Westin really that bad? I know its a bit tacky, but it is 42nd street and to me it says that New York has a sense of humor and is not serious all the time :)

Also, it accenuates the beauty of the NYT building by comparsion. Sorta like how a group of beautiful women always take one ugly girl along with them to the bar.

[macreator]

Personally, I have nothing against the Westin.

The colors are fun. And we could have gotten a Bryant Park Tower instead. So let's be thankful for what we have.

[antinimby]

Very true. One thing this forum does not seem to lack are a bunch of professional critics that could pick apart just about anything.

Btw, I'm counting 18 X's, meaning it is up to 37 floors now.
That means there are 15 floors left or 7 more X's to go.

[Fabrizio]

"Is the Westin really that bad?"

Yes.

[ablarc]

But when it's all up and that shimmering continues up 50 floors it will be the verticality that you notice ...
No, you won't; look at the recent photographs.

I'm talking about the openings, which read as horizontal slots. That's almost always the wrong thing to do with a skyscraper in an established urban area, where vertically proportioned openings compose themselves into vertical thrusts. Deco buildings --truly urban-- often emphasize that by collecting windows into vertical bands. You can think of the examples for yourself since they're so ubiquitous. Or you can just look at the photos that show this building in its surroundings.

[lofter1]

One thing that doesn't seem to be considered regarding the window "slots" is that behind the screens this building is virtually all glass -- so when it is finished and light is emitted from inside the "slots" will simply transmit more light than the areas above and below -- yet the entire facade will have a glow from the light being transmitted from inside.

Also, the verticality of this building is what will dominate due to the open "unscreened areas" at the corners and insets -- as well as the continuous vertical line of the exposed steel.

But we'll just have to wait and see ...

[NYguy]

One thing that doesn't seem to be considered regarding the window "slots" is that behind the screens this building is virtually all glass -- so when it is finished and light is emitted from inside the "slots" will simply transmit more light than the areas above and below -- yet the entire facade will have a glow from the light being transmitted from inside.

Also, the verticality of this building is what will dominate due to the open "unscreened areas" at the corners and insets -- as well as the continuous vertical line of the exposed steel....


This tower is mixed. You get the "vertical" with the "X's" at the corners, meanwhile, the rods are placed so closely together they appear solid, which leads to the horizontal "slots". It could go either way really. Sort of like the lovechild between the Citicorp and the Hearst...

[vc10]

Thoroughly repulsive. Grotesque.

"Is the Westin really that bad?"

Yes.

[londonlawyer]

"Too bad all that shimmering emphasizes the horizontal".

It´s beautiful...but uh... can we take off those damn screens already? Compared to those great old loft buildings in the foreground, the window openings of the Times are starting to look like horizontal slits. Oh well....

The x-frame part is brilliant though.

Hey... anybody up for tearing down the Westin? London?

I've come to like the screens. They're interesting.

I like the Westin's shape but am not a fan of its odd mix of glass.

[Fabrizio]

I will say this: Compared to Salma Hayek, I do prefer Renzo Piano´s glorious shaft.

[londonlawyer]

I will say this: Compared to Salma Hayek, I do prefer Renzo Piano´s glorious shaft.

No way!!! Are you straight?

PS: I respect all lifestyles.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8995/nytimes21c5vq.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes21c5vq.jpg) http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/489/nytimes22c7de.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes22c7de.jpg) http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8350/nytimes23c6hc.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes23c6hc.jpg).

[lofter1]

Zips first two pictures show this just ain't true (at least not when viewed from the north) ...

the rods are placed so closely together they appear solid

... the rods almost seem to disappear.

I've noticed that this is much more pronounced when viewed from 41st St. and above --

Waiting to see what effect light will have on the south and east facades as the sun moves across the sky.

Those first two photos also give a first inkling of what effect the rods might create when the interior lighting is up and running.

***

[mgp]

The History Channel is premiering a show called Super Tools on Sunday at 8 PM. At least a portion of this (not sure how much) will talk about the Times building... and the rest will probably be interesting from an educational standpoint. The History Channel's summary of the show is below:

Skyscrapers are an extraordinary feat of human engineering: exposing millions of pounds of concrete and steel to the enemy forces of wind and gravity. Starting with the foundation and on through the support structures and concrete flooring, every piece of these superstructures has to be super-strong. We'll soar high to spotlight the construction of three new buildings: a 30-story hotel tower for the Palms Casino in Las Vegas; a 52-story office building in Manhattan, the new headquarters of The New York Times; and a 92-story residential and commercial building in Chicago, the Trump International Hotel and Tower. Along the way, we go behind the scenes with the five tools that make these buildings possible: the foundation drill rig, the tower crane, the impact wrench, the power trowel, and the total station. Each of these tools has evolved over the 100-plus year history of the skyscraper era.

[Dagrecco82]

^^^ I'm going to have to TiVo that!

[LeCom]

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8995/nytimes21c5vq.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes21c5vq.jpg) http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/489/nytimes22c7de.th.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes22c7de.jpg) http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8350/nytimes23c6hc.th.jpg (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes23c6hc.jpg).
Nice pics

[antinimby]

Like this building or not, you have to agree that it's like no other building in the world and certainly won't be mistaken for any other, anywhere else.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3231/nytimes24c9ow.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes24c9ow.jpg) http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3893/nytimes25c8cd.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes25c8cd.jpg).

[larven]

I think this is one of, if not the finest skyscraper under constuction in the world at the moment. I love the expressed structural X bracing and the detail in the fenestration is extrordinary. It just seems to be getting better and better the higher it gets and as more of the facade is added slowly revealing the full effect it will have upon completion. It may lack a bit of colour but I don't think it needs it, a very slick tower indeed.

[TallGuy]

I think this is one of, if not the finest skyscraper under constuction in the world at the moment. I love the expressed structural X bracing and the detail in the fenestration is extrordinary. It just seems to be getting better and better the higher it gets and as more of the facade is added slowly revealing the full effect it will have upon completion. It may lack a bit of colour but I don't think it needs it, a very slick tower indeed.


'X' = 'Times', as in 2 X 2. The whole bracing is a big pun for the corporate name, just as the grey color of the exterior almost mimics news stock, which i previously mentioned.

[NYguy]

Zips first two pictures show this just ain't true (at least not when viewed from the north) ...

... the rods almost seem to disappear.

I've noticed that this is much more pronounced when viewed from 41st St. and above --
Those first two photos also give a first inkling of what effect the rods might create when the interior lighting is up and running.***


Obviously up close that won't be the case, but from a distance, the rods give a solid appearance.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Obviously up close that won't be the case, but from a distance, the rods give a solid appearance. So far, it depends on the light and the angle. It will be interesting to see how the rods will appear from 11th ave, with the glass in place and the sun hitting the building.

[Deimos]

Is the tower visible from NJ yet?

[Zoe]

From Hoboken
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4647/img44764ca.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9434/img44793zt.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JCMAN320]

Yes it is clearly by the photos. I saw it from Downtown JC today, quite impressive. I just don't think it is going to be that pleasant for the people working there.

[Deimos]

Wow.. i've gotta get off of this island a little more frequently!!! The building looks great so far.... I can't wait to see the finished product

[ablarc]

Yes it is clearly by the photos. I saw it from Downtown JC today, quite impressive. I just don't think it is going to be that pleasant for the people working there.
Maybe if they moved it to Jersey City...

[lofter1]

Why ^^ not???

[NYatKNIGHT]

View from across the river:

http://www.pbase.com/image/57522584.jpg

[ablarc]

^ Skyline looks dull in this view. Everything rises to about the same height. Plenty of height but it makes a plateau. Plateaus are dull, peaks are interesting.

The Empire State Building in this photo is interesting. The rest --remarkably-- is not.

[JCMAN320]

All I meant was that the rod across the windows may not look great from the inside and may diminish the experience of the building from the inside with the rods making it difficult to look out the windows.

[Fabrizio]

Curbed stoops to new lows ! .... Look who they´re quoting:


http://curbed.com/index.php?page=2


(Under the article titled "W 43rd's Ink-Stained Byways Going Upscale")

[ablarc]

All I meant was that the rod across the windows may not look great from the inside and may diminish the experience of the building from the inside with the rods making it difficult to look out the windows.
Your meaning was clear. Moving things to Jersey City seems to have a miraculous effect, however.;)

Just toying.

[JCMAN320]

Lol I know I was just reinforcing my position. :) Thx for the compliment by the way.

[antinimby]

^ Skyline looks dull in this view. Everything rises to about the same height. Plenty of height but it makes a plateau. Plateaus are dull, peaks are interesting.A result of zoning. Tends to make everything uniform. Now, they've got this idea that things should also be contextual...

[ZippyTheChimp]

Or maybe evertone wants to build up to the economic sweet-spot.

[antinimby]

That may be the case for the vast majority of buildings but I remember there were some proposals like the Travelstead Tower, original Columbus Circle project, One World Wide Plaza and Trump's Television City that would have poked through that plateau.

[lofter1]

They have installed a cantilevered beam (girder support is way off-center and it appears that there are counterweights on the short end) on top of the lower portion of the building in the area just north of the atrium (41st St. side). It is visible if you look at the Times building from sidewalk in front of PABT midway between 41st / 42nd.

Anyone know what this is for?

[ZippyTheChimp]

That may be the case for the vast majority of buildings but I remember there were some proposals like the Travelstead Tower, original Columbus Circle project, One World Wide Plaza and Trump's Television City that would have poked through that plateau.Nothing to do with zoning.

[Stern]

That may be the case for the vast majority of buildings but I remember there were some proposals like the Travelstead Tower, original Columbus Circle project, One World Wide Plaza and Trump's Television City that would have poked through that plateau.

Each project you mentioned was downsized do to community reaction and subsequent zoning. Ofcourse we are all familiar with Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy Onassis’s protest in central park over the height and size of Moshe Safdie’s design for Columbus Circle. Her protest is directly responsible to the city enforcing a 750 foot ceiling at Columbus Circle. One World Wide Plaza was originally going to be a 3 million square foot monster, but community groups effectively cut that project in half. We all know about the community opposition and subsequent zoning at Television City now known as Trump Place. Travelstead Tower was effectively killed by the city’s complicated zoning rules.

[Johnnyboy]

I hate to even think about those projects. Imagine how New York would had been if those projects would had been build. Well, we can't stay thinking about the past. The future will pobably hold many more monster towers that will get build.

[Fabrizio]

An interesting side-line about the Safdie project. While Onassis was trying to get the project killed, another group of society ladies (friends of Safdie) were campaigning for it. One of them ( I think it was Georgette Mosbacher if I remember correctly ) had cristal glasses made with the Safdie design etched on them... and gave them away as gifts. Gotta check e-bay....

[MidtownGuy]

It's so true about the plateau aspect. I was looking at old pictures of the downtown skyline from the harbor , and all of the peaks jutting out really were majestic. Now they are all blocked by a monotonous row of boxes.
Same thing in the above view. Too bad we're not running things, our little group of aesthetes could really shape(and shake) things up:D .

[lofter1]

^^ Mainly due to the revised zoning regs that went into effect @ 1961 [ http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/zone/zonehis.shtml ] and resulted in larger floor plates and loss of many of the previously required set-backs.

ERGO: bye bye to the graceful upward-rising classic NYC buildings, hello to The Box ...

The pioneering 1916 Zoning Resolution, though a relatively simple document, established height and setback controls and separated what were seen as functionally incompatible uses -- such as factories -- from residential neighborhoods. The ordinance became a model for urban communities throughout the United States as other growing cities found that New York's problems were not unique.

The current Zoning Resolution was enacted after lengthy discussion and public debate and took effect in 1961.

[antinimby]

An interesting side-line about the Safdie project. While Onassis was trying to get the project killed, another group of society ladies (friends of Safdie) were campaigning for it. One of them ( I think it was Georgette Mosbacher if I remember correctly ) had cristal glasses made with the Safdie design etched on them... and gave them away as gifts. Gotta check e-bay....Fabrizio, I'm guessing if given a choice between Safdie's CC design versus the current Childs' glassy TWC design, you'd pick the former, right?

[antinimby]

One World Wide Plaza was originally going to be a 3 million square foot monster, but community groups effectively cut that project in half.Wow. 3 million?!! That's bigger than even FT. Was there specs released for this proposal? Any renderings?
IMO, 1 WWP, Astor Plaza and Conde Nast is what makes the view of the Midtown skyline from NJ and the Hudson interesting. It wouldn't be much without them.

[Stern]

Wow. 3 million?!! That's bigger than even FT. Was there specs released for this proposal? Any renderings?
IMO, 1 WWP, Astor Plaza and Conde Nast is what makes the view of the Midtown skyline from NJ and the Hudson interesting. It wouldn't be much without them.

I dont think renderings were ever released. I read about the 3 million square foot scheme in the book that was dedicated to the buildings construction.

[lofter1]

If no plans / renderings were ever drawn up then that ft. sq. # was more likely than not tossed about by the developer with the knowledge that it would be negotiated downwards ... never a "real" number, but rather a wide-end starting point to allow the plan to get to an acceptable resolution.

[Stern]

If no plans / renderings were ever drawn up then that ft. sq. # was more likely than not tossed about by the developer with the knowledge that it would be negotiated downwards ... never a "real" number, but rather a wide-end starting point to allow the plan to get to an acceptable resolution.

That was most likely the case.

[LeCom]

Cross-bracing makes a comeback
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8316/pict0021small1rb.jpg

Getting ready to put up another floor of curtain wall
https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/445725.jpg

https://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2006/03/445727.jpg

[lofter1]

It's a shame that they put up those dinky grids over the magnificent X's at PABT.

I know the plan was that the grid would support lots of signage, but that has not come to pass -- and we're left with an empty lattice-covered thang.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[czsz]

Kinda like how disappointing it is that the NYT is being covered with permanent exterior Venetian blinds...

[lofter1]

Kinda like how disappointing it is that the NYT is being covered with permanent exterior Venetian blinds...
naaahhh ... apples <> oranges

[antinimby]

Kinda like how disappointing it is that the NYT is being covered with permanent exterior Venetian blinds...I don't think it necessarily has to be permanent. If the rods turn out to be unsuccessful, they can always get rid of it one day. Not that it's going to happen anytime soon because it's a huge investment and they don't want to look dumb, but as we can see from the 6th Ave. Verizon building re-cladding, facelifts are always possible.

[lofter1]

Why and from where does anyone get the idea that the rods will be "unsuccessful"??

[alonzo-ny]

Are any of us going to working inside? I doubt it so we can admire the effects from outside so what if it blocks their views

[Stern]

Are any of us going to working inside? I doubt it so we can admire the effects from outside so what if it blocks their views

That's rather selfish.

[alonzo-ny]

I suppose but there are slots for those people inside to see out

[lofter1]

Piano et al have done extensive testing of the facade treatment ...

No doubt they've taken into consideration the placement of the rod openings and how they will effect both the view to the exterior and the interior experience for those who will be working there.

Or maybe they just winged it ;)

[NYatKNIGHT]

The posts relating to Washington Square have been moved to that thread (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4299&page=6).

[lofter1]

Good move, NYatKnight.

A question here: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=89841#post89841

[krulltime]

RATNER COURTS TOP TIMES TOWER TENANT


By LOIS WEISS
March 30, 2006

It looks like Bruce Ratner may finally have a big tenant interested in taking space in The New York Times Tower now under construction opposite the Port Authority bus terminal.

The Post has learned the law firm Dechert is in the market for some 200,000 square feet, where they would move from 30 Rockefeller Center.

Dechert has looked at several city offerings through a team led by Mitchell Konsker of Cushman & Wakefield.

"We are looking at all the alternatives in the marketplace and have not finalized the location yet," Konsker insisted.

Other sources said a lease had been issued for the Times space but it would not be unusual for a group of lawyers to negotiate on several spots at once.

Disney's ESPN is another 200,000 foot tenant seriously considering the 708,000 feet Ratner has available. The entertainment group would consolidate from several locations, sources said.

Ratner is being represented by a team led by CB Richard Ellis Tri-State honcho Mary Ann Tighe, who could not be reached.

Asking rents at the Renzo Piano-designed glass tower are over $70 a foot with occupancies scheduled for the end of 2007.


Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[kliq6]

this along with Durst getting more sf out of Bank of America, makes Midtown even tighter as all new projects are practically filled

[RS085]

how many floors to go? pics?

[Fabrizio]

Has there been any talk of what businesses are going to be on the ground floor?

Also: I really don´t want to bump up the Hearst thread... but any news there of shops at street level?

[lofter1]

how many floors to go? pics?
They're just finishing up around floor 40 -- only 12 more to go.

[lofter1]

Workers ar the red brick building (SRO Hotel on the upper floors) seen at the lower right \/ have recently erected a sidewalk scaffolding; DOB states that this is preliminary step for facade work, so hoping she'll clean up nice:

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/50226899/large.jpg

[londonlawyer]

The red brick building is really nice. I would like to see the rest of that block razed, however.

[Myron]

They made great progress with the Times Tower since I last saw it. I think they plan to erect a transmission antenna too. Unfortunately, I don't own a digital camera. I wonder if they will get any tenants. The new Times Square Tower on the next block appears to have few tenants. Why so much office space? Times Square could use more theatres or other attractions; more business space is the last thing that's needed.

[alibrot]

They made great progress with the Times Tower since I last saw it. I think they plan to erect a transmission antenna too. Unfortunately, I don't own a digital camera. I wonder if they will get any tenants. The new Times Square Tower on the next block appears to have few tenants. Why so much office space? Times Square could use more theatres or other attractions; more business space is the last thing that's needed.

although you may want more theatres, high quality office space is what midtown needs badly at this point, closely followed by hotels. if the price of office space climbs, business start to look outside of nyc. only half of the building will be occupied by the ny times, which owns so many print and online news outlets - its so much more than the one newspaper.

image is april 2, from the victory roof deck
http://www.adam2000.com/wired/nytimes.jpg

[Fabrizio]

Times Square was built on entertainment (and in it´s earlier years fine dining). That must remain a prority. Interesting to note that zoning laws in the 6o´s required that new skyscrapers in the area include legit theatres or cinema. The Gershwin, the Minskoff, the National were the result of these laws. I wonder what happened to those requirements?

[lofter1]

Theatres in TS area are now owned by a select small group. Although business is booming on Broadway (waiting lists for theatres) I wouldn't be surprised if the current owners are happy to keep the number of theatres as is -- and keep their corner on the market.

[macreator]

It's possible that office builders don't want a public space, like a theatre, at the base of a big building which might be a terrorist target.

I think many perspective tenants view any public space as equal to putting a public parking garage under the building.

[CARLOS]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01439.jpg

[MidtownGuy]

It's possible that office builders don't want a public space, like a theatre, at the base of a big building which might be a terrorist target.


If that's true, we're doomed. You know what? When they want to blow us up, they will. This is the most stupid reasoning I've ever heard. They have plenty of targets to choose from. Stadiums,(maybe we should cancel the two new ones just announced), SHOPPING MALLS, trains, the bus on which I just rode up Madison, ... and on and on and on. Why don't we just stop building altogether? PUBLIC SPACES ARE EVERYWHERE.

[James Kovata]

How many floors are up so far? Any guesses as to a topping out date?

[macreator]

If that's true, we're doomed. You know what? When they want to blow us up, they will. This is the most stupid reasoning I've ever heard. They have plenty of targets to choose from. Stadiums,(maybe we should cancel the two new ones just announced), SHOPPING MALLS, trains, the bus on which I just rode up Madison, ... and on and on and on. Why don't we just stop building altogether? PUBLIC SPACES ARE EVERYWHERE.

Hey, I'm not saying the idea is credible, I'm just saying that these are the things companies are worried about. We should be aware of this.

[ablarc]

You know what? When they want to blow us up, they will.
Right now, they're busy in Iraq, doing each other. When that ends they'll be able to concentrate on us.

[MidtownGuy]

ablarc! Your being sarcastic, of course, right?

[ablarc]

^ Well, you said it; I was just agreeing:

When they want to blow us up, they will.
Right now they have other fish to fry.

.

[MidtownGuy]

When I said that, I meant that whether or not we build theaters in buildings, they will strike when it is right for them. They already have plenty of potential targets.

It should be obvious to anyone that what's going on in Iraq is different than what happened on September 11. It's wrong to think that there are some certain number of them, all moving together from place to place as one unit.

The ones who will attack in the U.S. are probably here now, living quietly without attention, and most of them have probably never even BEEN to Iraq.

Rumor has it that some of them even know how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ablarc]

When I said that, I meant that whether or not we build theaters in buildings, they will strike when it is right for them. They already have plenty of potential targets.
Oh, I knew what you meant.

It should be obvious to anyone that what's going on in Iraq is different than what happened on September 11. It's wrong to think that there are some certain number of them, all moving together from place to place as one unit.
Well, it depends whether you mean hardcore Al-Qaeda or the enthusiasts currently most active. For a while there, Zarqawi, a Sunni, was getting too bloodthirsty, so rumor is he got reined in by the home office and may not even be in Iraq any more. The amateurs have more than filled his shoes, however; he gave effective example. The Shiites are reciprocating tooth for tooth through their spiritual militias and government forces.

Those guys are homebodies; it's unlikely they'll come after us unless we attack Iran, their sponsor.

But it's ominous we're not hearing much from Zarqawi; he must be plotting something theatrical from his cave in Pakistan, so we should get ready for a big bang.

The ones who will attack in the U.S. are probably here now, living quietly without attention, and most of them have probably never even BEEN to Iraq.
Right; geography's pretty much irrelevant these days; you can get your instructions on the net.

Rumor has it that some of them even know how to walk and chew gum at the same time.
That I don't doubt, though I guess they're not in flight school any more. They must be studying chemistry.

[antinimby]

How many floors are up so far? Any guesses as to a topping out date?It's actually quite easy to figure, provided you get a shot where you can see the entire building. Just count the number of X's, multiply this number by 2 and add 1 (the first floor) and you'll find the number of floors.
From my observations, there are currently 21 X's, so they are at the 43rd floor. Nine more to go, or 4 more X's.
I'd say the end of May or early June is about right for the topping out.

[alonzo-ny]

al-qaeda doesnt exist anymore there is no big collective organisation of terrorists anymore but this is for another thread

[ZippyTheChimp]

View from W40th St & Broadway
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/1283/nytimes26c0zr.th.jpg (http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nytimes26c0zr.jpg)

Floors 41 and 42 are currently being erected. According to the stacking diagram, the double-height mechanical floor is counted as 28.

[Drexel]

How many stories is the New York Times Building going to be?

[ZippyTheChimp]

52

Floor 51 will also be double-height.

There is a stacking diagram on page 15 of this document:
http://newyorktimesbuilding.com/pdf/FactSheet2007.pdf

[vc10]

Meanwhile, Craigslist is tearing the heart out of newspaper economics. Be interesting to see if the NYTimes can weather that storm.

[BrooklynRider]

NY Times classified has actally been restricting the number of ads compamies can post, giving Corcoran, Halstead and Elliman a disprportionate lion's share of the advertising space, regardless of other forms desires to pay to play. There is an anti-trust suit down the line. The Times has become quite a sleazy rag in the last 5 years. They are also becoming largely irrelevant in the age of independent news sources. They and WaPo are still blinded by their own former glory. They don't realize that, given all the choices out there, they are no longer the primary choice. Both are corporate whore press release machines.

I like the building. I look forward to its conversion to residential units.

[czsz]

You sound like a blog propagandist. That rhetoric feels so 2003.

[SilentPandaesq]

Took a pic looking down 41st and 6 ave.

[bkmonkey]

yes, I definatly disagree. Even though they may not be the only source of information, they still are doing quite well. I attend a boarding school in delaware, and the NY Times is widely considered the "Paper of record". The school orders about 200 copies every day. The NY times if anything has weathered the Internet quite well, nytimes online has been very succesfull

[CARLOS]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01448.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01449.jpg




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01450.jpg





http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nyctowers/2006/DSC01451.jpg

[NYatKNIGHT]

Thank you Carlos - exceptional as always. Looking better and better