New York Times Tower - 620 Eighth Avenue

[noharmony]

By LOIS WEISS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York Post (http://www.nypost.com)

December 12, 2001 -- On Real Estate

The Gray Lady expected to unveil its - until now - unseen final designs for the Renzo Piano and Fox & Fowle 52-story New York Times tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm) tomorrow at a politically -studded event at The New 42nd Street Studios (http://www.wirednewyork.com/duke.htm). The project, at 1.5 million square feet, is being developed and co-owned by Forest City Ratner.

The dramatic, ethereal looking structure has been slenderized from the original scheme that called for four, expensive exterior glass staircases. Now, the curtain walls and what they expect will be a slender telecommunications antenna will rise above the lighted roof terrace. The ground level features a covered atrium garden and public spaces.



The site of the future New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm): South (left on the photo) of 41st Street at 8th Avenue, with the clock at the right at the entrance to Hilton Times Square Hotel (http://www.wirednewyork.com/hilton_times_square.htm)

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/ny_times_tower_41st_8dec.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm)

New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm) will replace adult entertainment center on this block of 8th Avenue

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/ny_times_tower_8th_41st_8dec.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm)

[noharmony]

This is a machine translation by Google of Italian article http://www.trama.com.ec/T76/rev76f.html

Renzo Piano:
Host Rascacielo of the New York Times

"Light, It is transparent and immaterial", thus it defines Renzo Piano to his recent creation, rascacielo for New York. One is the new seat of made famous the periodic The New York Times. The building will begin to be constructed in the 2002.

Of rectangular plant, of 250 meters of stop, one will be prolonged by a great antenna. In the top a garden will be constructed that will serve as observatory of the city. The volume glass finish will be perceived as it is transparent, will use in addition ceramic white that takes the color from the atmosphere and that changes second to second, reflecting a new color as the conditions of light become. She is ceramic contributes to that the volume is power sustainable from the ecological point of view, when reducing the heat transmission, a chronic problem in the skyscrapers.
In order to make this Renzo work Piano it had to win to other 3 great names of the international architecture, To stop Pelli, Norman Foster and Frank Gehry. This building promises to become new ícono of New York and to occupy a preponderant place in the contemporanea architecture. It is the work prolongation most important of the Italian architect, designer of the famous center George Pompidou in Francia and of the Aeropuesto the International of Osaka in Japan.
Piano says, "it will be a building that sings, that vibrates and that is mirror of the time".

http://www.wirednewyork.com/images/renzo_piano_ny_times_tower.jpg

[noharmony]

New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com)

December 14, 2001

Times Goes Forward on Plan for Tower on Eighth Avenue

By DAVID W. DUNLAP

At a moment when skyscrapers have never seemed more vulnerable, The New York Times Company and Forest City Ratner Companies declared their intention yesterday to build a 52-story tower described by its designers in terms of lightness and transparency.

"We do not believe that is inconsistent with security at all," said Michael Golden, vice chairman and senior vice president of the Times Company.

The final design of the tower was made public at a news conference at the New 42nd Street Studios (http://www.wirednewyork.com/duke.htm) less than an hour after the Times Company and Forest City Ratner posted letters of credit worth $106 million to guarantee they would meet the cost of acquiring the site, across Eighth Avenue from the Port Authority Bus Terminal. New York State will condemn 10 properties to create the site, which it will lease for 99 years. Mr. Golden would not put a price on the construction project.

The Times will move its headquarters to the Eighth Avenue tower in 2005 from 229 West 43rd Street, which it will sell. It will own and occupy 800,000 square feet of space in the new building, from the 2nd through 28th floors. Forest City Ratner will own 600,000 square feet and lease floors 29 through 50 to office tenants, asking rents of $75 to $85 a square foot annually.

There are to be restaurants on the 40th and 41st Street sides, stores at the Eighth Avenue corners and a 350- seat auditorium with views of a courtyard filled with birch trees across its stage.

At the summit will be a small grove of maples outside a rooftop conference room, above which a lightweight mast will rise, with no broadcasting or technical function, and will sway in the wind. "It shows where the fresh air comes from," said Renzo Piano, the Italian architect who designed the building with Fox & Fowle. "That is a good enough reason to exist, for me."

Two skins will clad the building: one of transparent glass and another of some 250,000 white ceramic rods, one and five-eighths inches in diameter, arrayed in screens suspended one and a half feet from the exterior wall, spaced at varying intervals to allow people inside to see out — and the other way around.

"From the outside to the inside, the inside to the outside, there is a permeable feeling," said Mr. Piano, whose works include the exoskeletal Pompidou Center in Paris. "The building talks about movement to the street and the street sees it."

Mr. Piano said Times executives had decided in the wake of the attack on New York to stick with the concept of transparency and visibility "not really as defiance to terrorism but because it was correct."

To the top of the mast, the tower will reach 1,142 feet, almost 100 feet taller than the Chrysler Building. The ceramic screens will reach a height of 840 feet and the building itself will be 748 feet, slightly shorter than Carnegie Hall Tower at 152 West 57th Street.

"It breaks new ground," Gov. George E. Pataki said at the news conference. "This moves the Times Square redevelopment process further to the west" — exactly the outcome feared by many in the Clinton neighborhood, one of the last low-rise and moderate-income pockets in mid-Manhattan.

Some 55 businesses — sex shops, trade schools, a student dormitory, architectural and engineering firms and third-generation hatters and fabric dealers — will be displaced to make way for the tower.

The project will benefit from $26.1 million of government incentives: sales-tax exemptions on the equipment and materials used in the new building, a waiver of the mortgage- recording tax and a discount on electricity rates.

Though the developers will pay acquisition costs up front for the 200- by-400-foot site, they will ultimately be liable for only $85.56 million. The excess will be refunded over time as a credit against the rent they pay for the site, made as a payment in lieu of taxes, meaning that the city is likely to forgo millions in future revenue.

Citing that deal, Gary Barnett of the Intell Management and Investment Company, who owns a parking lot on the development site, filed suit last week against the project. He charged that the "sweetheart arrangement" between the government and the developers amounted to "fraud, bad faith and collusion against the taxpayers of the city" and a waste of taxpayers' money.

A spokeswoman for the Times Company, Catherine J. Mathis, said the lawsuit was without merit.

Lawyers were busy Wednesday as partnership agreements were signed between Forest City Ratner and ING Real Estate, a subsidiary of the ING Group, a financial concern in the Netherlands. They then signed a partnership agreement with the Times Company. Then the developers signed agreements with the city and state.

Bruce C. Ratner, president and chief executive of Forest City Ratner, said yesterday, "The hardest part has really been done."


http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/ny_times_tower_42nd_dec14.jpg

[noharmony]

GlobeSt.com (http://www.globest.com) UPDATE: Optimism Reigns at Unveiling of Times Tower Design
By Glen Thompson
Last updated: Dec 14, 2001 *07:47AM

NEW YORK CITY-Yesterday's press conference introducing the final design for a new New York Times headquarters building turned into a celebration of the city itself, with an ebullient Governor George Pataki persuading a packed house at 42nd Street's Duke Theater (http://www.wirednewyork.com/duke.htm) that happy days, if not quite yet here again, are certainly within reach.
Introduced by Times Co. vice chairman Michael Golden, Pataki hailed the deal as a triumph for the city. "This is an important day because a decade or two from now people are going to look back and say this is another symbol that New York is coming back stronger than ever."

The dramatic, Renzo Piano-designed office tower is being developed through a network of joint ventures between the New York Times Co., Forest City Ratner Co. and financial partner ING Real Estate. Arranged by Insignia/ESG vice chairman Mary Ann Tighe and executive managing director Gregory Tosko, the three-pronged deal includes an alliance between the Times and FCRC; a separate deal between FCRC and ING; and the 99-year, $85.6-million ground lease and land acquisition agreement between the Times, FCRC and the City and State of New York. The lease gives the joint venture the option to purchase the site after 29 years. FCRC will be the developer of the project, which will open in two phases during 2005 and 2006.

The building will be located on the east side of Eighth Avenue between 40th and 41st streets, opposite the Port Authority Bus Terminal. The 79,000-sf parcel, which will be acquired via condemnation by the state of 10 land parcels, occupies the entire block along Eighth Avenue and extends roughly half a block east toward Seventh Avenue. The condemnation and relocation of business on the site is expected to take up to one year.

Construction on the 840-foot tower is expected to begin in early 2003 and delivery is scheduled for 2006. The Times Co. will own and occupy roughly 800,000 sf of space on floors two through 28. The Times newsroom will occupy floors two through seven. FCRC will own approximately 600,000 sf of office space on floors 29 through 50 and 20,000 sf of ground-floor retail, all of which will be leased out. The project is expected to generate 2,300 construction jobs and 3,500 permanent jobs. Of the latter, 2,500 will be Times employees and 1,000 will work in the stores and offices leased by FCRC.

Piano, winner of the 1988 Pritzker Prize in Architecture, is collaborating with Fox & Fowle Architects on the project, which features a glass curtain wall designed to give the building a transparent appearance. Thin horizontal ceramic tubes placed on a steel framework in front of the glass will take on the changing color of the sky during the course of the day as light focuses on them from different angles.

"At street level," Piano says, "the building will be open, transparent and permeable." Glass-enclosed retail spaces along the ground floor will allow passersby to view the lobby and ground-floor gardens. The ground level will also house a 350-seat auditorium that will be operated by the Times Co. and used for cultural and civic events. The design also incorporates a rooftop conference center.

While yesterday's event was ostensibly a kick-off party for the just-closed Times deal and a chance to see what the tower will add to the Midtown skyline, Pataki seized the opportunity to tout the project's greater impact on the area, both fiscally and philosophically. The building, he said, is an expression of "belief in tomorrow, belief that this great city is the center of commerce and finance and the media for the 21st century. It's also important because it breaks new ground. This moves the Times Square redevelopment process further to the west, including Eighth Avenue."

Positioning the Times project as an anchor for the westward push envisioned in the just released city/state plan for the redevelopment of Far West Midtown, Pataki expressed hope for "building a new tower over the Port Authority Bus Terminal, building a new Penn Station, extending the subway line so that we can open up the west side to the type of investment and commitment in the future that will make this great city even stronger."

Sharing the dais with Pataki, Golden and Piano were New York City Economic Development Corp. president Michael G. Carey, developers Bruce and Albert Ratner, and Empire State Development Corp. chairman Charles A. Gargano.

[Derek2k3]

Wow, 1,142 ft....so this model is really in scale

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/036/Je/WJ/EJ/NN64110.jpg

[Kris1]

I must say I wish Gehry had won. His proposal:

http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/past_exhibitions/gehry/images/projects/projects_images/ny_times13_lg.jpg

[noharmony]

Another photo of the New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm) location - North-West corner at intersection of Eighth Avenue and 41st Street:

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/new_york_times_nw_amc.jpg

[Rich Battista]

The NY Times Tower is gonna be a great addition for the city and the Times Square Redevelopment further west to eighth and ninth avenues, i wonder if the pole which will bring the tower over 1100 ft. will be lit up??????

[Rich Battista]

The NY Times Tower is gonna be a great addition for the city and the Times Square Redevelopment further west to eighth and ninth avenues, i wonder if the pole which will bring the tower over 1100 ft. will be lit up??????

[Rich Battista]

I have one question about this huge building going up in the near future,

Will the pole that sends the building to over 1100ft. in height be lit up??????????
please e-mail me at
rmbattista@nyc.rr.com

[MikeV]

Ugh, I hate the Ghery proposal. *It has no order or orginization of any sort; its just an abstract hunk of glass plopped down in the middle of manhattan. *Maybe if it was 1/10th the size, but 800 feet? *I don't think so. *The current version has really grown on mean, and i beleive they made the right choice.

[Rich Battista]

Will someone please answer my question about if the pole at the top of this building will be lit up!!!!!!!

thanks rich

[noharmony]

Kris, thanks for these excellent pictures. The last picture shows well the screen of ceramic tubes at the top of the building.

A quote from DesignArchitecture.com: "One of the most striking features will be the curtain wall. Much of the double thermal-pane glass will be screened by thin, horizontal ceramic tubes placed on a steel framework positioned one to two feet in front of the glass; in other places, this screen will be made of metal and glass louvers."

Does anybody know whether the screen of ceramic tubes was used as a design element before?

As to the use of metal louvers in some parts of the screen, just a block away from New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/new_york_times_tower.htm) is The New 42nd Street Studios (http://www.wirednewyork.com/duke.htm) building designed by Charles Platt and Ray Dovell.

A quote from New York Magazine: "The hallucinatory rainbow on most of its skin results from computerized uplights reflecting off perforated stainless-steel fins crossing the front. Programmed to mix and shift colors in continuous play, the lights project onto blades that are silhouetted against a blue backdrop created by yet more lights washing an interior scrim." See the picture

http://www.wirednewyork.com/images/new42nd_lights.jpg

[Edward]

The New Yorker (http://www.newyorker.com)

SPIFFING UP THE GRAY LADY

Issue of 2002-01-07
Posted 2001-12-31

Before last month, you could believe that the Times was never going to go through with it. Yes, the paper had sponsored a major architectural competition a year and a half ago for its new headquarters (http://www.wirednewyork.com/new_york_times_tower.htm), on Eighth Avenue, but the design it selected—a shimmering tower of transparent glass by Renzo Piano—was the last thing you would expect to be built by a conservative corporation, let alone the one that publishes America's most serious newspaper. This was a skyscraper for Gianni Agnelli, maybe, but not for Arthur Sulzberger. But, then again, the Arthur Sulzberger who is in charge of the Times today is not the Arthur Sulzberger who was in charge of the paper a generation ago, when it redid its newsroom with fake-wood Formica furniture and orange carpeting. Arthur Sulzberger, Jr., who took over as chairman of the New York Times Company in 1997, has an eye for design, and he saw the disjunction between the way the Times has regarded its own surroundings and the way the paper's critics preach the virtues of great architecture for other people.

Still, even if Sulzberger was behind Piano's unusual skyscraper, he and his colleagues had to figure out how to get the design approved by the city and state agencies that oversee the Forty-second Street development project, and convince the paper's partner, the real-estate developer Forest City Ratner, that the fifty-two-story tower would attract tenants for the upper floors. After September 11th, when almost every corporation became architecture-phobic, the Times would have had an easy excuse to fold up its glass tent, send Piano back home to Genoa, and build something ordinary, or nothing at all.

What nobody expected was the splashiest announcement of a new skyscraper since Donald Trump gave us Trump World Tower. The Times building is the biggest project to be unveiled in New York since the destruction of the World Trade Center, and it would have drawn plenty of attention even if it had been just another corporate box. When the Times held a press conference to reveal the final plan for the building, which Piano designed in association with the New York firm Fox & Fowle, Governor George Pataki showed up to hail it as "creative and brilliant," and Bruce Ratner, the president of Forest City Ratner, repeatedly referred to the tower as "really pretty."

The true sign that the Times had got religion about architecture was the way Renzo Piano, and not one of the Times executives or public officials who were present, turned out to be the star of the show. Piano, who has a gray beard and never seems entirely comfortable in a business suit, speaks with a mellifluous Italian accent. Even though he was trained as an engineer, he is probably better than any architect at convincing people that buildings are not just objects of shelter but exercises in poetry. For fifteen minutes, he held his audience rapt as he explained the rationale of the building, which is to be a slender tower of transparent glass, sheathed in a webbing of white ceramic rods that will form a protective sunscreen.

"For no reason, I prefer things that are light," Piano said, sauntering back and forth beside a set of renderings and floor plans, on easels, and a six-foot-high model of the building. "An architect fights all his life against gravity—this is our destiny, a building that is light and transparent and vibrant. It is like it is breathing, and it keeps changing. . . . Architecture is, of course, about making buildings, but it is also about telling stories, and the story I hope this building tells is not about arrogance and power. I hope this building will tell a story about transparency and lightness."

The outer mesh of ceramic will give the tower a soft texture and make it appear almost like mist against the sky. Piano said the rods would look like lace, and at one point he spoke of his desire to juxtapose "the 'precarity' of the lace and the strength of the steel." He thought for a moment, and then turned to Michael Golden, the Times company's vice-chairman, and said, "Don't worry, Mike. The lace won't really be precarious."

Piano had to make some adjustments to his earlier design in order to both survive the city's ruthless approval process and convince the Times and the developer of its practicality. The original tower was to have been cantilevered over an open piazza, but it will now rise directly up from Eighth Avenue, and behind it there will be a low wing, wrapped around a garden, containing the Times' newsroom. And Piano has come up with a new top: another garden with full-size trees and a three-hundred-foot-high central mast, which will sway slightly in the wind.

"Renzo absolutely demanded the garden and the mast," Bruce Fowle, one of the architects, said. "The mast has no function—it is kinetic sculpture. Renzo says it gives you something to love."

— Paul Goldberger

[redbrick]

The 42nd St Studios building is highly under rated.

[Stern]

Rich Battista: it will definetly be lit, I know this for a fact.

[Fabb]

I'm not so sure. The crown of Bear Stern was supposed to be lit too.

[Stern]

This is what I've heard from Lois Weis of the NYPOST

[Rich Battista]

thanks, Stern


Its great to have something built in my lifetime that is over 1100 feet. I am only 17

[Edward]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/20/nyregion/20BLOC.html

Blight Is Issue at Proposed Home for The Times
By DAVID W. DUNLAP

WELL-REHEARSED drama is a staple of 42nd Street, even in the legal battles that have accompanied each step of its state-sponsored redevelopment.

The acts play out like this: The government condemns properties as blighted. Owners sue, in part for bargaining leverage. The state prevails. Cases are settled. Awards, fees and expenses are paid. Sites are cleared. And new towers emerge

At first, Prof. Marci A. Hamilton of the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law of Yeshiva University, who specializes in constitutional law, said she discerned another "cut-and-dried application of the law" in the case involving owners on the block of Eighth Avenue, between 40th and 41st Streets, whose property has been acquired by New York State to create a development site for The New York Times Company's new headquarters.

But this case differs from earlier battles in that it is being fought at a time when blight and Times Square are no longer synonymous.

Professor Hamilton is persuaded that the case presents an important federal issue and is hoping, against high odds, that the United States Supreme Court will agree to hear the matter, which it is expected to review soon.

"The real question is: can a government take private property for the benefit of other private owners when the blight findings they're relying on are done after the decision to take the property?" Professor Hamilton said.

By that, she meant that the official determination of blight was issued in November 2001, after a tentative agreement reached by the Empire State Development Corporation with the Times Company and its development partner, Forest City Ratner Companies. Earlier blight findings, she said, were of questionable relevance since they were in some cases almost 20 years old.

Professor Hamilton argued in her petition to the Supreme Court that federal and state courts were split on whether the constitutional requirement of a public purpose for the taking of property could be satisfied by blight findings that were, in essence, a pretext for economic development plans.

Her clients are Sidney, Markus and Joseph Orbach, brothers and partners in Three O Realty, who owned a 110,000-square-foot office building at 265 West 40th Street that the state condemned in August, along with 10 other properties, to create a development site for The Times. Their tenants included a Donna Karan Home showroom and the richly stocked B & J Fabrics store. "This whole 16-story building — they offered $7 million," Markus Orbach said. "That's a nice bargain."

And an unconstitutional one, Professor Hamilton said. "The taking was not a taking for the public purpose of removing blight, but solely for the purpose of transferring private property to another, more powerful and `connected' private owner, The New York Times," she said in her petition. In response, Empire State Development dismissed the federal claim as preposterous. "No case has ever held that a pretextual blight finding is sufficient to satisfy the constitutional public use requirement," the state said in its brief, prepared by Carter, Ledyard & Milburn.

And no pretext was involved, state officials argued. "Without public intervention, there is no reason to believe blight will cease to exist," they said, meaning prostitution, drug use and loitering; the "shabby gateway" that the buildings present to Times Square; and the general underdevelopment of the block.

"The fact that the project may advance incidental private interests of The New York Times Company and the developer of additional office space is not unlawful and does not detract from its public purpose," the state said.

As for the Orbachs' building, the state said that even if "isolated pockets" of the block were not blighted, the whole site was.

Speaking for the Times Company, Catherine Mathis said yesterday: "The courts have repeatedly upheld, as recently as last year, the state's determination that the area is blighted. We believe that our proposed new headquarters will significantly enhance the area."

HAVING prevailed in state courts, Empire State Development is now clearing the block. Sussex House, a private 140-bed dormitory at 260 West 41st Street, has already closed. Officials say that residents received relocation payments and the owner accepted a multimillion-dollar settlement.

From the building at Eighth Avenue and 40th Street, the Taylor Business Institute and the SAE Institute of Technology have found new quarters, said Michael Rikon of Goldstein, Goldstein, Rikon & Gottlieb, which represents eight owners and 37 businesses, none of which have yet settled their claims. Arnold Hatters, the most distinctive store on the block, is searching for space it can afford, Mr. Rikon said, but has not found anything.

The Donna Karan showroom will be moving and B & J Fabrics will have a new home nearby on Seventh Avenue after 48 years in the Orbachs' building.

As they watched their property empty, the Orbachs reflected on their efforts not long ago to renovate it and build up its tenancy. "Besides the money," Sidney Orbach said, "we invested an awful lot of ourselves."

[Stern]

NYTIMES and Hearst Magazine Tower should rise together, a few blocks apart. Personally I am a bigger fan of Hearst.

[DominicanoNYC]

I can't wait to see the NY Times Tower rise. It's a great piece of architecture.

[Anonymous]

When is construction slated to begin? *I love the plans for this building. *Although by a technicality, it will be NY's number 2. *

[Gulcrapek]

I might have heard construction will begin early 2004, maybe I'm wrong.

This is a wonderful building. It'll introduce something completely new to the city while sticking to the basic shapes of the old. Like others, I'd be fine with an extra hundred feet to rooftop, but it's just fine the way it is to me.

[TomAuch]

It's an interesting building, considering what the Times has done to eliminate it's competition.
Notice how they talk down Lower Manhattan's economy (they claim there is 17 Million sqf. of office space vacant, but only 11.9 Million is listed as "available" while 8-9 million are actually vacant) To prevent anything from getting built in Lower Manhattan.
They would stand to loose a lot of money if the WTC was rebuilt, especially with tall towers. Did anyone read that NYTime's article on Louis Epstein back in November? Noticed how the coverage was very slanted. *

[Kris]

You really have to be a sucker to believe that idiotic plot theory made up by the Post.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/8ny_times_tower_skyline_rendering.jpg

[TomAuch]

While the NY Post does write some articles specifically to attack their competitors, this particular arguement about the Times actually has teeth. BTW, the Post didn't say that only 8-9 Million sqf. of space was vacant, Insignia/ESG published the report recently. And why is it that the NYTimes articles are so slanted towards doom and gloom for Lower Manhattan, while recently, they also ran an article promoting Midtown. They talk about how there is a "glut" of office space in Lower Manhattan, but hardly mention the economic reallities regarding their tower. They're also defending Forest City Ratner, which is helping the Times build their tower. *They write articles praising Ratner's projects (like the Metrotech complex in Brooklyn) at the expense of Ratner's competitors.

[Kris]

That must explain why the Times sponsored a study project for Downtown titled "Thinking Big" and published an article about the rebuilding titled "Rediscovering and Celebrating the Vertical Life", for instance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/magazine/08REBUILD.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/19/nyregion/19APPR.html

It all makes sense now.

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 6:04 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)

[Evan]

1 Bryant Park (equal height to Conde Nast?) is supposed to rise in 2005. *Just imagine the Hudson River view with the Conde Nast, 1 Bryant Park, and NY Times Tower.

[TomAuch]

Quote: from Christian Wieland on 5:57 pm on Feb. 22, 2003
That must explain why the Times sponsored a study project for Downtown titled "Thinking Big" and published an article about the rebuilding titled "Rediscovering and Celebrating the Vertical Life", for instance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/08/magazine/08REBUILD.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/19/nyregion/19APPR.html

It all makes sense now.

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 6:04 pm on Feb. 22, 2003)


Of course Muschamp's project from September was a big joke, and the current plans are bullshit too. Notice that most of the nine LMDC design finalists worked with Muschamp, including members of the THINK team. He's also been criticized for being too close with the THINK team. Why else would he praise a plan that will never get built in NYC? While Muschamp has endorsed THINK, everyone else at the paper has endorsed Libeskind, most noticably the editorial board.

BTW, does anyone have any renderings of One Bryant Park? There arn't any pics of it on your regular website, only pics of the construction site.

[Bennie B]

Court Rejects Challenge To Times Building
By David W. Dunlap (NYT)

The United States Supreme Court declined yesterday, without comment, to hear challenges by four landowners near Times Square that their properties were unconstitutionally condemned to make way for the new headquarters building planned by The New York Times Company. *The Empire State Development Corporation, a state development agency, had condemned 11 properties on Eighth Avenue and on 40th and 41st Streets to make a site to be leased to the Times Company and Forest City Ratner Companies. *Three owners, including West 41st Street Realty, said the state effectively prevented them from developing their property. *The other owner, Three O Realty, said the state's finding of blight was merely a pretext. *Charles A. Gargano, chairman of the development corporation, said yesterday that the state used its condemnation power ''to improve areas of our city where the majority of the public benefits.''
Published: 02 - 25 - 2003

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/12/173295.jpg

anyone know if they've started excavating?

(Edited by Bennie B at 11:18 am on Mar. 22, 2003)

[Zoe]

No, the old buildings are still standing and still have tenants in them. *I would love to see the above picture with the Milstein and Times Square Tower in it. *Anyone have a picture like that?

[Fabb]

The other owner, Three O Realty, said the state's finding of blight was merely a pretext.

I believe him.
But he should be proud to be sacrificed for the beauty of Manhattan.

[Kris]

Our own cynical esthete.

[Eugenius]

Quote: from Zoe on 2:17 pm on Mar. 22, 2003
No, the old buildings are still standing and still have tenants in them. *I would love to see the above picture with the Milstein and Times Square Tower in it. *Anyone have a picture like that?
I'd imagine that now that there is no place else to appeal (Nothing above the Supreme Court), the construction should start any day now.

[yanni111]

i walked past the NY Times site today and saw that the discount clothing store on the south corner on 8th ave had huge signs across its front saying, "Going out of business sale, after 18 years, building being demolished" Also the surface parking lot and the elevated 5 story parking garage have been completely emptied and the gates are locked. So it looks like the Supreme Court decision closed the deal.

[Fabb]

Good.
Hopefully, cranes will be busy before long.

[AJphx]

Three owners, including West 41st Street Realty, said the state effectively prevented them from developing their property.

- What are they saying? They made plans to develop AFTER they were condemned, then were prevented? That doesn't seem like a convincing arguement, or am I missing something?

(Edited by AJphx at 12:48 am on April 4, 2003)

[Fabb]

They just want more money.

[enzo]

Hmmmmm, has anyone seen this in Atlanta?

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte510j/KandS.jpg

Midtown's Symphony Center to get 41-story tower

By TONY WILBERT
and MARIA SAPORTA
Atlanta Journal-Constitution Staff Writer


The heralded Symphony Center project in Midtown will get off the ground early next year with the tallest office tower built in Atlanta in more than 10 years.

Development firm Hines plans to build a 41-story tower at Symphony Center that will contain 625,000 square feet of office space.

The building, designed by Jon Pickard of Pickard Chilton, would have the stature of a much taller office building, said Bob Voyles, a senior vice president who heads Hines' Southeast region.

Hines is moving forward with plans after reaching an agreement with law firm King & Spalding, which plans to lease about 400,000 square feet at the tower. Hines will file plans for the building with Atlanta officials Thursday and expects to complete the King & Spalding lease within 45 days, Voyles said.

Construction would start early next year, and King & Spalding would move from 191 Peachtree Tower around April 1, 2006.

Hines' decision to move forward with the $125 million office project, even with an anchor tenant in tow, is risky.

Atlanta's overall economy and job market continue to struggle, and projections for a turnaround have been pushed backed several times. As a result, dozens of office buildings across the metro area sit with financially dangerous amounts of empty space.

The Midtown office market has been hit particularly hard because it has not been able to replace technology and telecom companies that folded in the past couple of years. Midtown's overall office vacancy increased to 25.5 percent last year, ranking it as the area's weakest behind north Fulton County, according to Cushman & Wakefield, the real estate firm that represents King & Spalding.

But Hines is confident Midtown's current oversupply of office space will be filled by the time it opens the tower at Symphony Center in 36 months. Hines already is meeting with prospective tenants, said John Heagy, a Hines vice president.

"This is a unique building," Heagy said. "The connection it has to the symphony will, in and of itself, draw a lot of prospects to the building."

The as-yet-unnamed tower would be the first phase of the Symphony Center project proposed for Peachtree and 14th streets on six acres owned by the Woodruff Arts Center. Hines has contracted to buy about two of the acres for its building at a price that would cover a substantial portion of investment Woodruff made when it acquired the land for a new symphony hall two years ago, Voyles said.

The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra plans to open its new hall in 2008.

"The building will work with or without the Symphony," Voyles said. "It's a better building with it."

Hines' project would be connected to the new symphony hall building by a 1.5-acre plaza area that would become "a major public space" shared with other office properties including Promenade II, Voyles said.

King & Spalding has been downtown since it was founded in 1885, but a Midtown location, the Symphony Center and the chance for brand-new, efficient space proved tempting enough to leave.

"We are very proud to play a supporting role in the development of the Symphony Center project and this vibrant cultural hub in Atlanta," said Walt Driver, managing partner. "We are committed to participate fully in the Atlanta community, and being part of a project that will benefit both the business and arts communities is an exciting prospect for us."

When it opens, the 650-foot office tower would be the tallest office building erected in Atlanta since the 1,023-foot Bank of America Plaza and 871-foot SunTrust Plaza opened in 1992.

"We want a building that will have a very strong vertical lift to it," Voyles said. "Our building is a free-standing statement, but it respects the architectural vernacular of the hall."

Hines needs a special administrative permit to build the tower. It also plans to file for a permit to remove two American linden, or basswood, trees for the project.

The plans would be subject to the review by the Atlanta Regional Commission and the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority because the project would qualify as a development of regional impact.

King & Spalding would occupy the building's top 14 floors and have options to expand.

The office floors would sit atop 12 levels of parking. The parking deck would have spaces for street-level retail and restaurants.

King & Spalding would leave downtown just as the area gains momentum from the Georgia Aquarium, scheduled to open in 2005 just north of Centennial Olympic Park.

Some with downtown interests expressed disappointment at the prospect of losing the venerable law firm.

"They're making a very, very foolish mistake," said Richard Bowers, a downtown booster and developer who owns the 260 Peachtree office tower.


Look familiar????????

[Stern]

NYTIMES doubled there...lame.

[Kris]

They often make weak copies in the provinces.

[Fabb]

At least they won't have a heated debate over the spire.
Are we sure the Atlanta version was designed after that of the NY Times ?

[Stern]

no.....

Im sure, Pritzker Prize winner Renzo Piano copied the very corporate designs of the world famous Jon Pickard.... only transfiguring the corporate identity, to that of quality.

This imitation is lame. Materials set aside, this is the NYTIMES tower just doubled, nothing simplistic, no clean lines. This building sucks...

[Fabb]

Jon Pickard will never forgive you.

[Stern]

good, he sucks too...

[Kris]

Quote: from Fabb on 4:14 pm on April 7, 2003
At least they won't have a heated debate over the spire.
I don't think there are that many out there with such concerns.

[Fabb]

I meant, among skyscraper fans.
The other ones don't know what they're talking about. They'll buy anything they read or hear.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Quote: from Christian Wieland on 3:31 pm on April 7, 2003
They often make weak copies in the provinces.

The provinces. :)

[Fabb]

... he said, with a touch of contempt.

[ZippyTheChimp]

It reminded me of my history with Atlanta in the early 90s.

Nothern visitors were referred to as Yankees and Damn Yankees. When asked the difference, the reply was,
"The Yankees go back home."

[enzo]

LOL.
Atlanta has always longed to be like NYC. I was a little suprised at this particular rip-off though, usually they like to copy buildings from the 20's and 30's!

Here's another funny one......a dead proposal from Charlotte....
http://www.photoways.com/photos/0/3/036501/zoom/248036501.jpg

[DominicanoNYC]

Wow. That's a nice piece of archtecture right there.

[NYguy]

Quote: from enzo on 2:25 pm on April 10, 2003
LOL.
Atlanta has always longed to be like NYC. I was a little suprised at this particular rip-off though, usually they like to copy buildings from the 20's and 30's!

Here's another funny one......a dead proposal from Charlotte....
http://www.photoways.com/photos/0/3/036501/zoom/248036501.jpg

Why didn't they just propose an exact replica of the Chrysler and be done with it.....

[enzo]

I don't want to corrupt this thread....and I did do one about all of Santiago's NY copies here http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=6&topic=3

But here's 60 Wall Street in Monterrey, Mexico!
http://www.agimmobilier.com/resource-center/images/Monterrey/Monterrey-SanPedro-sm.jpg

[Stern]

holy shit...blatant!~

[Bennie B]

Hey Charlotte has a couple of real enchilladas
http://www.skyscraperpicture.com/charlotte29.JPG

[NyC MaNiAc]

Wow, that sure does look like the real 60 Wall Street down in Mexico. I like how they changed the top a little though. Still, a blatant rip-off.

[AJphx]

What is the purpose of the low-rise portion of the NYT tower? From pictures it looks like they are going to have to demolish a rather tall(comparetively) building(s) in that place.
http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/ny_times_tower_8th_41st_8dec_s.jpg
http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/ny_times_tower_40th_8dec_s.jpg
although, from these pics, I can't really tell if the taller brown buildings are on the site or not.

(Edited by AJphx at 6:02 am on April 11, 2003)

[Eugenius]

Yeah, B&J Fabrics has to go. *I think that they are actually going to demolish a 16-storie building as part of the process.

[dbhstockton]

The newsroom, a courtyard, and an auditorium are going to be in the low-rise portion of the tower. *The larger footpint also allows them to make the building taller, in accordance with zoning and architectural practices (more light and air, etc.).

[Derek2k3]

RPWF updated their site nicely and there are some pictures of the NYT Bldg..

\http://194.185.232.3/works/064/index.asp

[Bennie B]

Now THAT'S a highrise.
http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/25big.jpg

[Stern]

thanks derek.

[Derek2k3]

your welsome Stern-the site is down but the images still show up.

http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/10big.jpghttp://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/05big.jpg


http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/34big.jpg
The ceramic tubes...suppose they were flourescent lights and did a little light show at night.


(Edited by Derek2k3 at 4:56 pm on April 18, 2003)

[dbhstockton]

Those models compare it to ESB, Chrystler Bldg, and the other Times Square towers.

[Gulcrapek]

I absolutely positively cannot wait..

[Kris]

The statement:

Each architecture tells a story, and the story this building proposes is one of lightness and transparency. While designing a tower fulfils the greatest challenge in the upward reach, it also contributes a presence in the skyline that is both vibrant and changing with the winds.

The 52-storey building’s basic shape is simple, primary, similarly to the Manhattan grid. It is slender, does not use mirrored or tinted glass which render towers mysterious and hermetic subjects. On the contrary, the use of clear glass combined with a pattern of thin ceramic cylinders placed on a steel framework, positioned one to two feet in front of the glass, from bottom to top. This curtain wall will permit a high degree of energy efficiency in heating and cooling the building, and will make it get a different color, according to the atmosphere: bluish after the rain, shimmering red at sunset.

For vertical circulation, in addition to 28 elevators, people will use stairs located on the side facades, whose flow will be visible from outside. This is only appropriate, as it is from the street itself that the newspaper metaphorically gathers its inspiration.

Another notable feature is that the lobby of the building is very open, transparent and permeable. At ground level, a large internal garden will be accessible to all, visible from the street, thereby creating multiple transparencies throughout the block from 40th to 41st streets. The lobby will also include a semi-public auditorium, restaurants and shops at that level, in its desire to participate in the street’s everyday life.

The idea to install a roof garden, which is in consideration, would be the opposite of that on the ground floor. While the ground level of the building engages the street and its daily rites, the roof garden would be a place of silence and contemplation. The meeting rooms at this level would give an enjoyable panorama of New York City through a glass and ceramic screen, that would shelter the garden from the winds.

The New York Times is a news factory, the newsroom (located in the “podium”, the base of the tower) being the real machine plant for the entire system. It will occupy the 2nd, 3rd and 4th floors, overlooking the surrounding streets like a magic lantern, continually lit and constantly active.

On all other floors, work conditions have guided our design: transparency, flexibility, ease of movement between floors, while privileging the sense of community and guaranteeing privacy. The tower would reach a height of 748 feet, and a mast on the roof would bring it up to 1,140 feet.

[Fabb]

For vertical circulation, in addition to 28 elevators, people will use stairs located on the side facades

I really like that.
But it also means fewer offices with a view.

[Stern]

so instead of a single occupant stealing the view...

[Stern]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p48e0429bce3c10172d7433b94afdaacd/fc4e63a9.jpg
After 18 long years of buisness, closing, finally.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p8469d69250d9057b691d9f3ed392b002/fc4e6134.jpg
Another welcome sight, among the last of TXSQ's sex buisnesses closing, several vacating here.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p7219aa49ffee66e7cce08b7cc89dd041/fc4e612d.jpg
Behind the fences, a miniature ghost town, the last dormant site among the hustle of TXSQ.

Farewell to the surface parking, the porno, and welcoming the next coming attraction.

[Kris]

It's heartbreaking, but life goes on.

[Stern]

lol...very good Christian.

But is there something as too much sarcasm?

[Kris]

I don't know. Let's make a survey.

[Derek2k3]

from \http://enr.construction.com/features/buildings/archives/030210.asp

http://enr.construction.com/images/030210-29A.jpg
ELABORATE SCREEN Mockups of the New York Times building's ceramic rod "veil" informed the curtain wall bid documents. (Photo courtesy of Benson)


http://enr.construction.com/images/030210-26A.jpg
They also talk about a hypothetical 150 story tower for New York.

Although glass curtain walls are becoming more and more thermally efficient," says Gregory Kiss, a founder of Kiss + Cathcart Architects, Brooklyn, the goal of creating an energy-conserving facade is one of "diminishing returns." His firm has designed a hypothetical 150-story tower to be built in New York City in 2020 with a skin that would be a source of power. The structure, clad entirely in photovoltaic (PV) panels, would generate 60% of the building's electricity requirements. Wind turbines enclosed in PV louvers would supply the rest.

Although the 2020 tower may seem more like a fantastic vision, Kiss maintains that photovoltaic technology "is ready for prime time." Even now, the least-expensive building-integrated panels cost about $12 per sq ft. "There are many more expensive cladding materials," he says. And despite the fact that many recent high-profile projects use PVs to generate only a small portion of their total power requirements, building-integrated photovoltaics could be common-place in three to five years, he predicts. "The number-one limitation is education," Kiss says. Click here to view rendering.

[Fabb]

I guess the PV panels wouldn't generate much electricity on cloudy days, or during winter when luminosity is weak and demand is high.
Well, if it helps build a 150-story building, then OK, I believe them.

[Kris]

The recent destruction of the World Trade Center in New York casts an ominous shadow on high-rises everywhere, especially those that aspire to landmark status. Earlier this year, well before the tragic events of September 11, Record's editor Robert Ivy spoke with Renzo Piano at his glazed-roofed offices overlooking the Ligurian Sea outside of Genoa. Although the topic of terrorism and its impact on skyscraper design did not arise, Piano discussed his views on building in New York, his approach to design, the problem of urban sprawl, and the role of memory in architecture. What follows are excerpts from that interview.

Architectural Record: You have worked in many great cities in the world—Berlin, Paris, Turin, Osaka—and now you are designing projects for New York, San Francisco, and Chicago. Do you think it's going to be hard to achieve what you want in a city like Manhattan, which has the reputation of being a tough place to build?

Renzo Piano: This is what architecture is about. Architecture is not an art independent from reality. Real architecture, real painting, real poetry, real music is never detached from physicality. In architecture, that’s it. Architecture is at the edge, between art and anthropology, between society and science, technology and history. Sometimes memory, too, plays a part. Architecture is about illusion and symbolism, semantics, and the art of telling stories. It’s a funny mixture of these things. Sometimes it’s humanistic and sometimes it’s materialistic.

AR: So you’re not worried about working with tough New York developers on a project like the New York Times Tower?

RP: No. Of course they are developers. But what is wrong with that? In some ways the best client is a tough client who knows what he wants. That doesn’t mean you give the client exactly what he wants. You are responsible for doing your job well. But a good building needs a good program. I don’t think there is one single good building without a good plan. It’s impossible. Certainly you need a good architect, but that’s not enough.

AR: You have studied ceramics and tiles more than most contemporary architects. How will you use them in New York?

RP: Ceramics are metamorphic materials. They have a great ability to bleach and change, to echo the weather. For me, the most beautiful quality of Manhattan is its ability to change with atmospheric changes. One of the most poetic views of Manhattan is of its forest of buildings as they take the quality of the weather. New York is a peculiar place because it’s very hard, very tough when you touch the ground. It’s made of stone and steel. But as soon as you break from the ground and go up, you can see it’s one of the softest cities in the world.

AR: What will the New York Times building do to advance your thoughts and work? Where is it going?

RP: This is exactly the question we ask each time. We are lucky to be able to decide what projects we want to do—not because we are snobs but because we are in a lucky position. Let’s talk about expression in architecture. I like fighting gravity. Magic is essential in architecture. Working in Manhattan, I love the idea that we accept the clear and simple geometry of a building. We accept that logic. But complexity comes from texture, from vibration, from the metamorphic capacity of the building to transform, to change, to breathe. Sometimes buildings even make sounds. You know, in New Caledonia we learned from the local culture that buildings sing. And we were actually able to do that, to make our building [the J.M. Tjibaou Cultural Centre in Nouvéa] make a sound when the wind blows. So the complexity doesn’t necessarily come from geometrical complexity. The building is actually very simple. But the complexity comes from the skin, the surface of the building actually vibrating, working with the weather. In Manhattan, I think the Times building will be tough when it touches the ground and then become more light, more vibrant, more metamorphic as it disappears in the clouds. I’m working on the idea of putting a garden on the roof, so there’s a garden in the sky. On the street level there will be a lot of activity: a small auditorium, a small museum for the Times collection of pictures and documents, shops—lots of street life.

AR: Your work often centers on complex issues that are resolved simply. Can you explain your approach to design?

RP: I came to architecture as the son of a builder, so when I was a young architect I was devoted to developing objects. I was attracted to the physicality. The piece-by-piece approach was essential to me. Then I began to understand that this is not enough. Architecture is more than just putting things together. It’s about the organic, about illusions, a sense of memory, and a textural approach. I must admit, though, that I still love the idea of putting parts together. That is why my office is called the Building Workshop. I love the idea that you go from the general to the detail and then from the detail to the general. It’s a double process. You cannot think about the presence of the building in the city without thinking about materiality. And when you think about materiality, you start to think about detail.

AR: There is a lot of talk about architecture becoming virtual. What is the role of the computer in architecture today?

RP: The computer is essential. When you make a building like, for example, Kansai Airport in Osaka [RECORD, JULY 1994, Pacific Rim section, page 26], you need a computer to optimize everything—the structure, the form. You know, computers are getting so clever that they seem a bit like those pianos where you push a button and it plays the cha-cha and then a rumba. You may play very badly, but you feel like a great pianist. The same is true now in architecture. You may find yourself in the position where you feel like you’re pushing buttons and able to build everything. But architecture is about thinking. It’s about slowness in some way. You need time. The bad thing about computers is that they make everything run very fast, so fast that you can have a baby in nine weeks instead of nine months. But you still need nine months, not nine weeks, to make a baby.

AR: Let’s jump around a little here. What do you think of the role of the architect in today’s world? Where do we stand as a group?

RP: This touches on the ethics of the profession and how we go about our work. Can I confess one thing? I take pleasure in what I do. Pleasure is one of the most important things. You may say this is selfish. It is not selfish.

AR: When you accepted the Pritzker Prize in 1998, you described architects and yourself as explorers. Do you take an idea or a line and rework it or are you always looking for the new?

RP: I think it’s important to note the difference between style and coherence. If you’re talking about coherence, I love it. If you’re talking about style, then I start to be more suspicious. Coherence is about the experience, about using what you’ve been learning and reapplying it. It’s not about making yourself recognizable. But architecture is necessarily about exploring. Every place is different, every client is different, every society is different. Culturally, historically, psychologically, anthropologically, and topographically, every job is different. So the real risk is that as an architect you end up imposing your stamp before you understand what is the reality of a place. I never take a new job without visiting the place, without trying to understand, without trying to get a basic, fundamental emotion. Because that’s what it’s all about—building emotion. I try to understand what is the real nature of a place, what is the context. My goal is not necessarily to integrate with the context. Sometimes architecture should not integrate but should make a contribution to the context.

AR: Do you ever worry that you won’t find the genius of a project or make it work?

RP: Oh, yes, you worry about that. And the next thing you worry about is staying on track, because architecture is a very long, complex process. There are two things I worry about. In the beginning, it’s finding the emotion, the basic emotion. But then, you need to find the direction and stay with it for sometimes five or six or more years.

AR: Tell us a little about how your firm operates. What is your role here?

RP: One of my favorite roles, though not necessarily the main one, is spending time—my colleagues might say losing my time—in the model-maker’s shop. I love watching things and touching. If you look around my workplace here, I have all my small working models on the wall. What I do is mentally I touch each one. They’re like my children, and I go and touch each one to understand what is going on.

AR: You’ve spent a lot of your career working on cities such as Genoa and Berlin. What is the state of the contemporary city today?

RP: Right now I’m working with Milan, helping it plan its peripheries. This is going to be one of the biggest challenges in the next 50 years. How do we transform the periphery? It’s not just about form, it’s about content. The real trouble is that these urban peripheries are monofunctional, they’re all about just one mode—production or business or housing. But after the city’s big explosion, now we’re seeing it start to implode. I like the idea that sustainable growth is about implosion not explosion.

AR: There are some architects who have made careers of mostly talk.

RP: Yes, there’s nothing wrong about that. But for me, I prefer to build.

Piano comments on the WTC disaster

In an interview published in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica on September 21, Piano spoke about skyscraper design in the wake of the World Trade Center attacks.

When asked “Is it possible to build safer skyscrapers?” he replied, “We already know how to build skyscrapers that can resist earthquakes. Now we must devise ways to protect buldings from the kind of fires that occurred at the twin towers. The necessary technology exists and is employed at offshore oil-drilling platforms where protective coatings such as polypropylene fibers are used. There’s a need to rethink security systems and make fire egress easier.”

Asked what should be built on the WTC site, Piano said, “Whatever is built, there should first be a great deal of thought and reflection. It’s not only an economic issue but a cultural one. What is at stake is saving the soul of a city, its spirit.”

http://archrecord.construction.com/people/interviews/archives/0110piano.asp

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 9:55 pm on May 5, 2003)

[Fabb]

I’m working on the idea of putting a garden on the roof, so there’s a garden in the sky.
It would hardly be visible from the street. But what a magical place for the lucky few.

(about the WTC site) It’s not only an economic issue but a cultural one.
Thanks Renzo.

(Edited by Fabb at 2:49 am on May 6, 2003)

[Kris]

JM, do you still have the renderings you scanned for the old forum? If so, could you please post them again?

[JMGarcia]

I still have them but they are not on-line. I'll try to find space to upload them later and post them.

[Kris]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

[Stern]

Christian I have both renderings at my website.

[maxinmilan]

Piano and Rossi were (I use 'were' cos Rossi dead in a car crash probably drunk) the biggest italian architect. Rossi has designed in NYC that masterpiece which is the Scholastic bldg in SoHo). Piano is very elegant and has got a very deep sense of proportions and details: I'm sure his NYTimes bldg will have a strong presence in the NYC skyline and will probably considered the new Seagram bldg. Lightness and absence of gravity will be the most evident typology of this project. I like them.

[JMGarcia]

Thanks Stern. :)

[Derek2k3]

http://images2.fotki.com/v14/free/b619/3/39399/245775/TimesTower24FoxFowleRenzoPiano-or.jpg
Arte-Factory
http://images2.fotki.com/v14/free/b619/3/39399/245775/NewYorkTimesTower38ArteFactory-or.jpg
Arte-Factory
http://images2.fotki.com/v15/free/b619/3/39399/245775/TimesTower25FoxFowleRenzoPiano-or.jpg
Arte-Factory
http://images2.fotki.com/v15/free/b619/3/39399/245775/ewYorkTimesTower39AMDRendering-or.jpg
Advanced Media Design

[Kris]

Thanks, Stern. But they're small. (Do you think I don't visit your site?)

God bless you, Derek. Just what I wanted (plus a bonus).

[Stern]

Notice in both renderings the NYTIMES space has a finer facade treatment, the higher floors are different to say the least.

[Evan]

Is tha garden on the roof going to be open to the public, or is that a New York Times executive perogative?

[Fabb]

We're not even sure there will be a garden. Piano is working on it.

[Stern]

No Fabb, there will be a garden. The article/interview was written shortly after his selection a couple of years ago.

[NYatKNIGHT]

In that rendering, it stands directly in front of the (unseen) Times Square Tower.

[Edward]

New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm) will replace this building at the corner of Eighth Avenue and 41st Street.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/new_york_times_tower_amc_10may03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm)

[Eugenius]

Was this picture taken from the Westin hotel?

[Edward]

It was taken from the promenade of the AMC 25 movie theater.

[yanni111]

recently signs saying "going ut of business sale" were put up in front of the porn dvd/video store and the peepshow on the site. After those two close the only stores left open on the site will be a hat store and a small deli on the corner. I wonder what the final date is for everyone to leave the property.

[DominicanoNYC]

Is there going to be an observation deck?

[TLOZ Link5]

I doubt it. *The garden might not be open to the public, except possibly on special occasions. *The roof isn't really high enough to be used as a good observatory, anyway.

[James Kovata]

What's going on with this building? *Is there an start date for building? *Or are the developers waiting for another large leasee other than the Times?

[Derek2k3]

http://images3.fotki.com/v29/free/fbdd1/3/39399/245775/orkTimesTower65RPBWArteFactory-or.jpg
Rendering by ArteFactory \http://www.arte-factory.com
Renzo Piano Building Workshop

[DominicanoNYC]

Seems quite comfortable for a work place.

[NYatKNIGHT]

Apparently it will be haunted.

[Gulcrapek]

Heh. Artistic license I guess.

But I'd love to work there. Any place without cubicles is good for me.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Ghost writers

[Zoe]

I dropped by the SAE school today and they told me that they are starting their move soon (one of the last remaining tenants). *They will be completely out of the building by the end of August and moving into Herald Square. *So we could start to see the site cleared in either September or October. *There looks to only be the hat shop and one porno shop remaining on the 8th avenue side.

[billyblancoNYC]

Developer Wants 9/11 Bonds for Times's Project in Midtown
By CHARLES V. BAGLI


he New York Times Company's development partner in building the newspaper's new headquarters on Eighth Avenue has asked city officials for $400 million in tax-exempt bonds that were designated for rebuilding New York after the attack on the World Trade Center.

The developer, Forest City Ratner, has told city and state officials that it needs the special federal financing, known as Liberty Bonds, because it is nearly impossible in the current economic environment to obtain a conventional construction loan for its portion of the planned 52-story tower on Eighth Avenue, between 40th and 41st Streets.

A spokesman for the Times Company noted that the newspaper would not benefit directly from the bonds. But some critics questioned whether a project in Midtown, which embraces some of the most valuable real estate in the world, should receive another round of subsidies.

The federal government provided up to $8 billion in Liberty Bonds in 2002 as part of an initiative to provide tax-exempt financing for major projects to revitalize Lower Manhattan in the wake of the September 2001 attack. The legislation for the bonds set aside up to $1.6 billion for residential projects downtown and up to $2 billion for commercial projects outside Lower Manhattan.

The Times and Forest City reached an agreement with city officials more than two years ago to build the Eighth Avenue skyscraper as part of a deal in which the newspaper got $26.1 million in sales tax breaks and other subsidies.

Under the terms of their partnership, The Times will own the 2nd through 27th floors of the tower, totaling about 875,000 square feet, while Forest City Ratner will own the upper floors, 725,000 square feet. With millions of square feet of vacant space in Midtown Manhattan today, Forest City has been unable to find a tenant for its space, making it difficult to secure financing.

Bruce Ratner, chief executive of Forest City Ratner, declined to comment on the application yesterday. The partners are scheduled to take possession of the land for the project at the end of August and to begin demolition immediately. The tower should be completed in the third quarter of 2006, about a year behind schedule.

Michael Golden, vice chairman and senior vice president of the Times Company, said the Liberty Bonds would be a valuable investment for the city. The Times, he added, would not be involved in the bond financing. He said the original deal for the project was drawn up several years ago amid a real estate boom. "The real estate world has changed," he said. "There's a lot more space out there. I think anything the city and state can do to make the development of this office building happen is a legitimate expenditure. It's a good thing for the city to have this building go up."

Bettina Damiani, project director of Good Jobs New York, an advocacy group that evaluates economic projects, disagreed, saying the city had already struck a deal for the Times project that required The Times and the developer to proceed.

"It's disappointing," she said. "They're certainly taking advantage of everything that's out there. But the whole point of the Liberty Bonds was to rebuild downtown and create back-office space in Brooklyn and Queens so companies don't flee to Jersey. It wasn't about Midtown."

Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff confirmed yesterday that the city had received an application from Forest City Ratner. He declined to discuss the specifics of the proposal, but he did say that the city would employ two criteria in evaluating its merits: whether the project has boroughwide or citywide importance, and whether the project would not be built without Liberty Bond financing.

Like Forest City, the developer Douglas Durst hopes to get tax-exempt financing for a Midtown project. He wants $700 million in Liberty Bonds to build a two-million-square-foot tower with Bank of America at 42nd Street and the Avenue of the Americas.

City and state officials have approved a number of residential projects, but there have been few commercial applicants because of corporate layoffs and an anemic economy. The developer Larry A. Silverstein has received tentative approval for $400 million in Liberty Bonds to rebuild the skyscraper at 7 World Trade Center, and Forest City Ratner received approval for $113 million in bonds to build an office building for Bank of New York at Atlantic Center in Brooklyn.

[Fabb]

The tower should be completed in the third quarter of 2006, about a year behind schedule.

If that's the only delay, it will be OK, but... Forest City has been unable to find a tenant for its space. That's worrisome.

[Freedom Tower]

Has construction begun yet?

[Fabb]

That would be great, but no.

The partners are scheduled to take possession of the land for the project at the end of August and to begin demolition immediately.

[James Kovata]

Any new news on this project? *

[JACKinNYC]

Quote: from Derek2k3 on 12:04 am on June 21, 2003
http://images3.fotki.com/v29/free/fbdd1/3/39399/245775/orkTimesTower65RPBWArteFactory-or.jpg
Rendering by ArteFactory \http://www.arte-factory.com
Renzo Piano Building Workshop



That's a really annoying website.

[NYguy]

Here's a look at the site as of Sunday (8/17/03). *Demolition is supposed to begin by September...


http://www.pbase.com/image/20401941/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/image/20401969/large.jpg

[Fabb]

The 3-story, white building was cute.

[dbhstockton]

Yep. *Say goodbye.

[dbhstockton]

The tall building around the corner has a nice art-deco doorway, too.

[DominicanoNYC]

Delays...Delays...:(

[Fabb]

Nothing to be worried about.

[Stern]

GlobeSt.com RealShare EXCLUSIVE: NYT Building Gets the Go Ahead
By Barbara Jarvie
Last updated: Sep 17, 2003 08:05AM

NEW YORK CITY-"It's now time to begin," CBRE's Mary Ann Tighe, CEO, New York Metro Region, told the crowd at RealShare New York, when she revealed that she had just received word that morning from New York State officials that the condemnation was complete for the Eighth Avenue site proposed to be the new home of the New York Times.

Tighe was speaking about deals that were meaningful to her and mentioned that the process for this endeavor began in 1995. "I like transformation deals--deals that change the landscape," she said.

Tighe and Gregory Tosko of Insignia/ESG with Timothy Dempsey won the Real Estate Board’s Henry Hart Rice Most Ingenious Deal of the Year Award for the development of The New York Times’ proposed 52-story headquarters.

When the New York Times moved its presses to Queens in the mid-1990s, the company’s leaders began to consider transferring the newspaper’s editorial and administrative offices from its current headquarters on 43rd Street to a new facility that would require less maintenance and offer a more efficient workplace.

The Rice award winners designed a transaction that will produce a distinctive building that satisfies the Times’ objectives. The brokers also structured a partnership with developer Forest City Ratner that will give the Times opportunities to expand within its new, partially speculative building.

RealShare New York was produced by Real Estate Media Inc., parent company of GlobeSt.com.

[James Kovata]

PROGRESS.... If the NYT Tower is complete in 2006 and the Freedom Tower (don't like the name...sounds corny) is topped out in 2006, the skyline, combined with a finished Blooberg Tower, will look very different than it does today!

[BrooklynRider]

September 2003 NY Construction News

Designing the New York Times
Steel Grid Visible Inside and Out

By Amy Choi

At a news organization, truth is the top priority.

The design of a signature, headquarters property for The New York Times Co., one of the most prominent news organizations in the world, required truth as well.

"There are great modern architecture principles of honesty," said Dan Kaplan, senior principal at Fox & Fowle Architects, PC. "It's a celebration of the way things are constructed and turning that into architectural design. For The New York Times, we're putting the structural frame of the building on display."

To execute this vision of honesty, Fox & Fowle worked with world-renowned architect Renzo Piano, who designed the 52-story, 1.54-million-sq.-ft. exposed-steel tower, and the Renzo Piano Building Workshop.

The new development on Eighth Avenue between 40th and 41st streets is expected to break ground this fall and be ready for occupancy by summer 2005.

Aesthetically, it will express utility and grace simultaneously. Kaplan likened the exposed-steel idea to a sailboat mast—"It's totally structurally derived, but it's very light and expresses lightness and elegance."

The purity of the material itself was crucial in the design. "The best buildings have a limited palate of materials and systems," said Kaplan. "So in this building, whether it's painted steel, columns on the outside or in the lobby, or a steel storefront, the basic elements (of the building) are all true to the material. Steel becomes one of the integral architectural expressions."

Structural steel is, of course, the most common building material for office buildings in New York City, but it is usually buried by a curtain wall, concrete or façade of some sort. Because each structural piece of steel will be visible in the New York Times building, close attention is being paid to what each member will do and how it appears.

"The main challenge wasn't the steel itself," said Tom Scarangello, managing principal of Thornton-Tomasetti Engineers, the structural engineers on the project. "The challenge was the high degree of visibility the steel was going to have."

Steel helped achieve Piano’s primary design expression – the quality of lightness and fading into the sky as one looks to the upper reaches of the tower, joined with the quality of strength and stability anchoring the tower to the ground.

"There was an extra level of scrutiny and awareness that we had to have on the detailing and the proportioning and connecting of the material to make sure that it met with Renzo's and Fox & Fowler's intent," Scarangello said. "The ability to sculpt steel and turn it into an art on the scale of a building like this couldn't have been done with a concrete system in any way.

"Steel was the only material to go with to have something this inviting that lets in light and air because it's got strength and the ability to form and shape into expressions."
Bob Sanna, executive vice president of design, development and construction at Forest City Ratner Cos., the developer of the property with partner ING Real Estate, added: "We have assembled a kind of erector set that you can look into. It is bridge-like in its beauty."

Retaining the beauty of the exposed steel created some obstacles for the design and engineering teams. Some less complex issues included how to abide by New York City fire codes, which require that all of the steel be fireproofed, while still maintaining the aesthetic qualities of the material. As a result, the steel on the Times building had to be finished with a special paint that can take both cosmetic exterior finishes but can also maintain the fire integrity of the beams.

The structure overall creates a vocabulary of large and small steel columns extending from the 80,000-sq.-ft. footprint to support the vertical and horizontal loads, growing slimmer as they reach higher into the sky. Rather than taking the smaller columns and fitting them with standard available shapes of beams and floorplates as the tower grows higher, the design team took the reduction in size and choreographed it so that the plate sizes drop off in a controlled manner to help create building’s feeling of lightness.

Similar attention was paid to the diagonal tie rods on the upper floors of the building. The rods control the sway of a high-rise tower and make it more comfortable for the occupants, although they do not support the building structurally.

These braces, which are usually hidden in the façade of the building, were exposed on the exterior walls in keeping with the design philosophy of honesty and additionally were kept extremely slender in order to perpetuate the critical feeling of lightness as one looked up the building.

"All of the exposed shapes were shapes that we designed," Scarangello said. "Every connection and member that we chose had to meet the design intent. It was a challenge but it was an enjoyable process because usually the design gets buried, but it'll be great to be able to see a lot of elements."

The exposed steel also played a major role in the design of the interior and ground-floor lobby of the building. The storefront of the property is steel, which is unusual in the United States, and the lobby itself has steel cladding and columns.

"The steel was exposed in the building as well as in the lobby, which was a very deliberate attempt to bring these members in," Sanna said. "You see the very strong grid and the elements from within as well as from outside."

[Fabb]

These braces, which are usually hidden in the façade of the building, were exposed on the exterior walls in keeping with the design philosophy of honesty

Good choice.

[ZippyTheChimp]

It will be interesting to watch this description transformed into a building.

[Fabb]

I'm reasonably optimistic.
I'm afraid this building might make AOL-TW and 7WTC look incredibly dull. Maybe they should consider dumping Piano and hire SOM instead.

[JonY]

Stick with Piano. What is the saying? Ah yeah!! "You're only as good as your last job." This is one of the last of the larger Piano designs. Aurora Place (Sydney).

It is more than likely of what to expect in finishes with the NY TIMES building as far as the white laminated glass. Also with the predominant staff (approx. 300 ft on Aurora).

Since being completed, this tower is generally well liked (I find the base a little sterile in parts but as a tower, it's great!!).

Although obviously a different shape (and different context), many of the fundmentals will remain (only updated).

http://www.renzopiano.com/works/project52/09.jpg

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/01/137277.jpg

[Chicagoan]

Yeah I agree. If anyone can get a photo of Debis Tower in Berlin, you can see why expectations should be high. Debis has a stair tower that is pulled off to the side of the building and it is simply exquisite.

I only have high hopes for NYTT.

[Fabb]

Aurora Place offers an interesting preview indeed.
I expect a very different texture though.

[Freedom Tower]

It's ironic. They facade will be see through in order to show how the building is constructed. They said it is because the NY Times values "honesty" in their news reports. Hopefully they've already fired all those reporters that made up false stories. This way it'll have some real meaning and not just be false. This, IMO, is 1000 times cornier than freedom tower. It's cornier because it in itself is a blatant lie. If they value honesty so much they might as well admit they haven't been honest in the past. At least the freedom tower does represent freedom. There is a lot of debate as to whether there is honesty at the NY Times.

With all that said, Im still extremely excited about the project. :lol: Also, I agree with Kovata on one important thing. When the Freedom Tower is done, the NY Times tower is done, and the Bloomberg tower is done, the NYC skyline will look very different. Especially Lower Manhattan, which will look completely different. Let's hope they are all done by 2006 or sooner. But I dont think the Freedom Tower will be done until 2008.

[JonY]

Aurora Place offers an interesting preview indeed.
I expect a very different texture though.Fabb, If you don't mind me asking, in what sense do expect a very different type of texture?

Aurora Place in Sydney was only completed in 2000.

@ Chicagoan. Here is the only pic of Piano's Debis Tower in Berlin that I could find; completed 1997/1998:

http://www.pritzkerprize.com/piano/IMG0019.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

Debis
http://www.courses.psu.edu/nuc_e/nuc_e405_g9c/berlin/potsdamerplatz/potsdamerplatz4.jpg http://www.usc.edu/dept/architecture/gesundheit/leelopez/debis2.jpg

http://www.dcue.dk/Files/Billeder/Billedarkiv_Tyskland_Berlin_Potsdamer_Platz_Debis. jpg

[Fabb]

Aurora Place offers an interesting preview indeed.
I expect a very different texture though.Fabb, If you don't mind me asking, in what sense do expect a very different type of texture?

Aurora Place in Sydney was only completed in 2000.



I was refering to the exposed steel and the transparency of the NY Times Tower.
Even though Aurora Place is very beautiful, I have the impression that its texture is more conventional. The top of the building, on the other hand, is of the kind envisioned for LBT and the NYTimes Tower.
Was it the first time Piano tested this elegant solution ?

[JMGarcia]

Here's is a closeup of the prototype of the facade. These floating louvers that cover the building are what will make is so unusual and textured.

http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/34Big.jpg

[JonY]

Thanks for your reply Fabb :D

I expect a very different texture though.
"I was refering to the exposed steel and the transparency of the NY Times Tower. Was it the first time Piano tested this elegant solution ?In regard to Aurora Place, I believe so ie. in regard to "testing this elegant soultion", as I previously posted it was his last major project in regard to office buildings."

In regard to the exposed steel rods for the NY Times Tower, I guess this in regard to the last pic post that JM Garcia posted (as you can see by the above Aurora Place [once again only completed 3 years ago] pic posts, the edifice isn't lined with horizontal steel rods):

Posted by JM Garcia: Quote "Here's is a closeup of the prototype of the facade. These floating louvers that cover the building are what will make it so unusual and textured."

http://194.185.232.3/works/064/pictures/34Big.jpg

[Kris]

September 23, 2003

Land Transfer Is Under Way for Times Site

By CHARLES V. BAGLI

The New York Times Company and its development partner are expected to take control tomorrow of a large parcel on Eighth Avenue, across the street from the Port Authority Bus Terminal, where they plan to build a new 52-story headquarters for the newspaper company.

On Friday, the state's 42nd Street Development Project notified the Times Company and its partner, Forest City Ratner, that it was ready to transfer the land, setting the stage for the demolition of the 11 buildings on the site, between 40th and 41st Streets.

Michele de Milly, a spokeswoman for Forest City, described the land transfer as a crucial step in an important development.

The partners have put down a $20 million nonrefundable deposit and are required by the state to begin construction within a year. But Forest City is still negotiating with city officials for tax-free bonds.

The state has spent the last year relocating some 55 businesses — including trade schools, sex shops, fabric dealers and a hat shop — that once called the block home.

"We're very pleased that all the businesses have been able to find new homes," said Michael Golden, vice chairman and senior vice president of the Times Company, "and glad the project has crossed this milestone.`

Under a deal struck more than two years ago, The Times and Forest City are required to pay the acquisition costs of the land, but are liable only for $85.6 million.

When the tower is completed, the partners will pay about $14 million a year in lieu of taxes. The Times, which will occupy about 875,000 square feet on the lower floors, obtained $26.1 million in tax breaks from the state and the city.

Forest City recently asked the city for $400 million in Liberty Bonds, special tax-free financing, for its share of the skyscraper. But the two sides are still negotiating over the amount, according to people on both sides of the talks. This month, officials offered $100 million, providing that Forest City gave the city a stake in its project. Forest City objected, contending that the city had reneged on a compromise of $150 million.


Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

[Kris]

http://www.meccapixel.com/images/0309/030926_1.jpg

www.meccapixel.com

[Kris]

VictorG has told me that "tomorrow's 60 minutes news program on CBS will have a segment on the Times Tower and how the land was taken." Some of you may be interested.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/1998/07/08/60minutes/main13502.shtml
The 36th season premiere of 60 Minutes will be broadcast Sunday, Sept. 28 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.

[...]

In the third story, Correspondent Mike Wallace investigates controversial eminent domain policies, where the government is forcing private citizens to sell homes and businesses in cases that seem to benefit private rather than public interests.

[Edward]

The parking garage will be soon demolished to clear the way for New York Times Tower (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm). 28 September 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/images/new_york_times_tower_28sept03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/skyscrapers/new_york_times_tower/default.htm)

[JonY]

Well sayonara fugly parking station and the peek-a-boo shows that occupy the site. However, are any major art-deco buildings going down under the 'wrecker's ball' so-to-speak for the tower?

[JMGarcia]

There's absolutely nothing of any architectural merit being torn down for the new tower. Its a pretty crappy block all in all.

[BrooklynRider]

There's absolutely nothing of any architectural merit being torn down for the new tower. Its a pretty crappy block all in all.

True, but I think the 60 Minutes spot was a real eye opener. Despite my desire to see new interesting architecture go up, I am appalled at the use of emminent domain to do it. It's abuse of power.

[Chicagoan]

There's absolutely nothing of any architectural merit being torn down for the new tower. Its a pretty crappy block all in all.

True, but I think the 60 Minutes spot was a real eye opener. Despite my desire to see new interesting architecture go up, I am appalled at the use of emminent domain to do it. It's abuse of power.

I agree. I saw the 60 Minutes piece and was appalled myself. The old Renaissance catherdrals in the denser Italian cities were built at the expense of private owners, but that was for the public good. This was the intention of eminent domain. But when it is used to further private interests I do not care what the result.

[matt3303]

I think we all agree that this building is not in the 'public interest'. Still, it'll keep the Times in New York (unlike the Wall Street Journal) and further develop the Times Square area

[Stern]

The focus was on Ohio and their mayor was a witch.

The area encompassing Times Square was blighted, does anyone need to be reminded of the prostitutes, pimps, peep shows, and the other unsavory social aspects of 1970's New York City. Time Square redevelopment was extended far beyond Brodway and includes the land where NYTIMES will now rise. If it wasnt for NYTIMES someone else would build there anyways.

It is important that this entire district is extended to the PABT. A few legit. buisnesses, a parking lot, and adult shops in the way of progress, and this is an important final step in the entire TXSQ transformation.

[kliq6]

Since Forest City cant get a tenant for the upper portion of the building and the city wont give this project any Liberty Bonds, i would not expect to see this built anytime soon. I talked to a friend that works for the Architect of this building, they may start demoltion but not construction soon

[Freedom Tower]

They've just given BofA liberty bonds, do you think maybe they'll now give liberty bonds to this construction project?

[Fabb]

That would be fair.

[kliq6]

the head of the IDA at yesterday's BOA meeting said no way that the Times would get the funding. They have already been given massive subsidies and tax breaks and unlike most office developments, the state will turn over the land to Forest city in 10 years and they dont have to pay other taxes on it then.

[Freedom Tower]

Wow, thats amazing that they're gonna have it tax free in 10 years. But do you think with NYTT never paying tax and the UN never paying tax that eventually this will badly impact NYCs economy? I mean if every gets a tax free deal then pretty soon what taxes will they be collecting?

[Fabb]

That's right.
But the top priority is not taxes but jobs. That's what NYC needs right now.

[Freedom Tower]

You're right. I forgot about that. More jobs in NYC would mean more people moving in... then more taxes from residential buildings. Not to mention the taxes on the lunch they eat while working, the transportatoin they pay for (trains, etc.) The jobs will also have the salaries taxed. And it will bring more people into the city. It seems I overlooked something that important. Thanks for reminding me Fabb :). Now I'm going to ponder why I forgot something so basic ;).

[Fabb]

I hate it when I make people ponder over themselves.
Please Freedom Tower, don't do it !

[Freedom Tower]

I'm sorry Fabb I believe I've already done the pondering :oops:. But I'm sure you'll be relieved that I at least came up with no reason for my mistake... so the pondering was useless anyway. I shall never ponder about myself again ;)

[Fabb]

You're done ? Already !
That was fast.
You sure didn't ponder much... OK, how about that : tax breaks for all the new tall buildings in Manhattan (say, over 900 ft).
That could work and help the local economy.

[Freedom Tower]

Definately. Great idea Fabb! It'll not only improve the economy job-wise in NYC, but the steel industry will get some business too, not to mention architectual firms, etc.! And after all this the skyline will improve with some nice 900+ foot buildings. Fabb, this an ingenious idea. FABB FOR MAYOR! :D

[krulltime]

I vote for FABB as mayor!!!

Good thinking! :D

[Fabb]

Stop it !
I can't feel my legs.

[kliq6]

This project will never get built

New York Times Co. delays occupancy for HQ

by Wendy Blake

The New York Times Co. has pushed back the occupancy date for its new headquarters building, because the project’s developer has had delays in getting financing for the project.

The Times Co. said in its earnings release today that it expects to occupy the building in 2006 or 2007, citing delays on the part of developer Forest City Ratner in securing backing. It had previously targeted 2006 as the occupancy date. Forest City has been seeking authorization from the city for $400 million in tax-exempt Liberty Bonds to help pay for the 52-story, Times Square-area skyscraper, but the city has balked at disbursing that much.

Forest City could not immediately be reached for comment.


Copyright 2003, Crain Communications, Inc

[emmeka]

Oh jesus christ!

is this becoming a pipedream?

[Kris]

October 17, 2003

Times Tower Is Delayed as Partner Awaits Loan

By CHARLES V. BAGLI

The New York Times Company said yesterday that it would delay construction of a new headquarters on Eighth Avenue until its development partner obtains financing for the 52-story project.

The Times said its partner, Forest City Ratner, had had difficulty obtaining a construction loan in the current economy for the portion of the tower that Ratner will own. The tower will be on Eighth Avenue between 40th and 41st Streets.

Russell T. Lewis, chief executive of the Times Company, said in a conference call yesterday with stock analysts that he did not anticipate moving into the new building until late 2006 or early 2007, about two years later than the company had originally anticipated.

Last month, the partners took possession of the property across the street from the Port Authority Bus Terminal where the skyscraper will be built. The 55 businesses on the site have all been relocated. But Forest City has been unable to land an anchor tenant for its space. Its negotiations with city officials for special tax-free financing known as Liberty Bonds are also at a standstill.

"Obviously it's a difficult climate for large commercial projects of that nature," Mr. Lewis said. "As long as there's no financing, the project will not go forward. We certainly expect that the market will improve in the future and then we would be prepared to move forward. Projecting exactly what will happen is not something I want to do."

But later in the day, Michael Golden, vice chairman and senior vice president of the Times Company, said he expected that Forest City would be able to get financing within the next year.

More than two years ago, the Times Company and Forest City reached a deal with the state's 42nd Street Development Project to build a new headquarters. The Times will own the 2nd through 27th floors, about 875,000 square feet, while Forest City will own the upper floors, about 725,000 square feet.

The partners are required to pay the acquisition costs of the land, but are liable only for $85.6 million. Anything above that will be refunded with interest over time. They are also required to demolish the existing structures and begin construction within a year after taking over the property.

But with rents falling and vacancy rates at relatively high levels, Forest City has not found a prime tenant.

In recent months, Forest City began negotiating with city officials for $400 million in Liberty Bonds, which were designated for rebuilding New York after the attack on the trade center. Forest City ultimately applied for $150 million in bonds, but has been unable to get city approval.

Forest City declined to comment yesterday.

Some good government groups, urban planners and executives involved in downtown rebuilding have criticized plans to use Liberty Bonds they say were meant for Lower Manhattan. Regulations may allow it, they say, but Forest City should be forced to live by the deal it struck more than two years ago.


Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

[Just Rich]

Geez, wouldn't you think they should have had all the financing issues dealt with before "relocating" 55 businesses.

[kliq6]

Forest City is having finacial problems, so they cant risk building on spec

[NYatKNIGHT]

We're looking at least another year? WTF

[enzo]

I'm not suprised. But I also do not fear this project being scrapped.

We can live with a delay. Look how long it took for Bloomberg?

[DougGold]

I have to say it seems that asking to get Liberty Bonds to help finance this building is at least obnoxious, at most reprehensible. If anything like that is ever approved, it would be tantamount to outright theft.

[matt3303]

I'm not suprised. But I also do not fear this project being scrapped.

We can live with a delay. Look how long it took for Bloomberg?

Yeah, they have to build now too because people were evicted. If the site is left empty, the people who were evicted will make a huge stink. Then we'll have the questioning of all new construction projects, espically those that use eminant domain.

[kliq6]

i dont want to defend this action but look at it from a developers stand point. After 9/11 many projects planeed fell apart because of the new economy, insurance problems and banks not giving construction loans out. This is all still going on as big name develpers like Durst cant get bank loans to build because the banks say NYC is to much of a target. SO in a way the Liberty Bonds will help get around this issue until the government comes down on the banks for this action

[Stern]

Why doesnt Ratner just build condo's ontop? The 42nd corridor is a hot-bed for "real" real-estate development.

[JMGarcia]

I think the floorplates are too deep for condos. Plus, he'd still have to get financing.