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January 24th, 2002, 02:30 PM
220 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm): 49 floor condominium by Costas Kondylis.

The view in December 2001, with 200 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_200_riverside.htm), the 46-floor condo by Costas Kondylis and Philip Johnson, completed in 1999, on the right.


The view on 220 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm) in January 2002.


Construction continues on 140 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm): the view in January of 2002.


More Trump Riverside South development (http://forums.wirednewyork.com/viewtopic.php?t=721)

January 24th, 2002, 03:40 PM
Thanks for the update. Too bad the worst design is also the tallest.

February 18th, 2002, 04:25 PM
Here are the views on the Trump Place on 17 February 2002.

The view of 220 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm) condominium from the riverfront pier.


The view of 220 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm) condo from the waterfront esplanade.


The view on the construction site of 140 Riverside Boulevard (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm) rental apartment building from under the West Side Highway on 17 February 2002.


Construction site of 140 Riverside Boulevard (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm). Behind the construction site is the 160 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place rental apartment building


The view on the Trump Place from the Riverside South Park, with the New York Central Railroad Float Bridges (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=48) on the left.


The view of the riverfront pier that extends 750 feet out over the water and culminates in an observation deck.


February 19th, 2002, 08:29 AM
Are there any plans to do something with the site where the New York Central Railroad Float Bridges are located?
That place is so ugly and I don't think that anyone wants to have a view on them from the new condominium.

February 19th, 2002, 10:47 AM
Some people might find it not ugly but picturesque, as to the plans, take a look at New York Times article in this thread (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=32)

"Under a new plan for Riverside Park South, being built between the Hudson River and the 13-block-long Trump Place development, a 90-year-old New York Central Railroad float bridge at the foot of 69th Street would be turned into a landing for small, high-speed ferries."

February 20th, 2002, 03:56 AM
The broad bases are disturbing. Why not a tower that rises sheer ?
These are pale imitations of old, romantic buildings. Pointless ?

October 28th, 2002, 12:07 AM
The view of the Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/default.htm) from Weehawken on 27 October 2002, with 220 Riverside Boulevard (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm) and 140 Riverside Boulevard (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm) buildings complete.


March 25th, 2003, 01:00 AM
The view of the 140 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm) building from the riverfront esplanade on 24 March 2003, with AOL Time Warner Center (http://www.wirednewyork.com/aol/default.htm) on the right.


The AMTRAK train emerges from underneath the 140 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_140_riverside.htm) building.


March 25th, 2003, 08:07 AM
Interesting building. *I love that view with the AOL/TW center rising...

March 25th, 2003, 12:48 PM
140 RB doesn't look all that interesting to me. It actually looks kind of sickening.

March 25th, 2003, 04:05 PM
The calculated progression of height from South to North is unnatural.

March 25th, 2003, 04:49 PM
Fat bottoms.

March 25th, 2003, 05:02 PM
I'm alll about major development, but this is such a prime location (waterfront) that you would like to see at least some innovation in architecture, some glass and steel!

TLOZ Link5
March 25th, 2003, 06:13 PM
These designs are way too conservative.

March 25th, 2003, 06:19 PM
Construction is in progress on 240 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_240_riverside.htm). The building will block the river views from the Chatsworth, a Beaux-Arts masterpiece where Conan O'Brien now occupies the penthouse. 24 March 2003.


March 25th, 2003, 08:05 PM
Nice pictures, especially the one with the train snaking out from under the building and the one with the niched playground.

This latest addition is so cute. You feel like hugging it, no?

The calculated progression of height from South to North is unnatural.
On the contrary. It's a complete mock Art Deco family, from the father to the newborn baby. It even includes siamese twins. But why are those degenerates showing off by the Hudson?

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 8:14 pm on Mar. 25, 2003)

Just Rich
March 25th, 2003, 09:05 PM
I think they look like some bad Sim City knockoffs.
Pale representations of real buildings.

March 25th, 2003, 09:33 PM
And 10 more to go.

March 26th, 2003, 08:32 AM
Really ?
If they keep being taller and taller, this development will definitely get interesting some time.

(Edited by Fabb at 8:34 am on Mar. 26, 2003)

March 26th, 2003, 10:02 AM
I see what you're thinking.

On that shot from Weehawken: The land slopes downward from north to south. One more building is going up next to the tallest one. That's at 72 St, the northern boundry of the site. It will be shorter than that tallest one.

The development will continue south, where the site also becomes wider. I suspect that the building on the far right will be the shortest, with height gradually increasing. There will be a second line of buildings on the southern portion, along West End Ave.

Looks awkward, in my opinion.

April 23rd, 2003, 09:07 PM

April 23, 2003 -- THE owners of the Chatsworth apartment building on West 72nd St. have appealed a court decision allowing Donald Trump to build a new condo practically up against it.
Trump has the building permits he needs to build his semi-circular keystone condominium within three to 36 inches of the rental's Hudson River-view windows.

The Chatsworth's lawyer, Howard Weiss of Davidoff & Melito, said the lawsuit "isn't about views," because the residents would lose their sunsets over New Jersey even if the new project were constructed "40 feet away."

Weiss said the lawsuit stems from turn-of-the-20th-century agreements between the previous owners of the Chatsworth and the railroad from which Trump purchased the land. Trump dismissed the proceedings by proclaiming, "They have zero case."

April 23rd, 2003, 10:46 PM
Small shot but you can see how the heights will end up generally.


April 23rd, 2003, 10:58 PM
More horrible architecture?

April 24th, 2003, 01:46 AM
How did Trump get this huge tract of incredibly priceless real estate anyway? *I'm sure the railyards had something to do with it.

Maybe I'm too young to have been paying attention when this started, but wasn't there some kind of scandal or uproar about one developer having sole control? *I vaguely remember some furor about how tall he originally wanted it to be, but nothing about the failure of the city to include the public interest in the shaping of such a vast tract.

April 24th, 2003, 10:18 AM
I can imagine just how great it would have been with city and/or public input. *

Look at the great Queens West, among other examples.

April 24th, 2003, 10:39 AM
sarcasm, right?

April 24th, 2003, 10:51 AM
Quote: from dbhstockton on 1:46 am on April 24, 2003
How did Trump get this huge tract of incredibly priceless real estate anyway? *I'm sure the railyards had something to do with it.
The entire 53 acres was the railyard. I think it originally
was owned by NY Central, and when they merged with Penn RR in 1968, it became part of Penn Central. At some point after PC went bankrupt in 1970 (that was fast), Trump acquired the entire site, the largest privately owned land in NYC.

A plan should have been developed before the highway was rebuilt. Trying to make it look like CPW is a big mistake.

April 24th, 2003, 10:51 AM
That's a nice big lawn they've got there.....

April 24th, 2003, 10:53 AM
More sarcasm, right?

April 24th, 2003, 11:33 AM
Granted, the buildings could be a lot better, I just have to think that NOTHING would be done if Trump, or someone like him, did not step up. *At least we have some new towers, more folks living in the city, and a new park to show for it. *

Unfortuately, beggars can't be too choosey.

April 24th, 2003, 11:43 AM
The whole political, NIMBY mess that is Riverside South is the perfect example of how difficult it is to get anything really exceptional built in NY anymore. It is mediocre/average at best.

Other prime examples are AOL/Time Warner which could've/should've been much better. I'd rate it only slightly above average.

Times Sq. is a huge improvement over what whas there and is the best of the new developements in NY but again it took years to get off the ground. Conde Naster shoudl've been taller by at least about 20 floors also. It was really the last great site in midtown for something to really make a skyline impact and should've been the counterpoint to Chrysler.

April 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM
You're awfully negative today.
Exceptional projects happen only once in a generation, therefore I'm mostly happy with Riverside South. Its mediocrity will probably be a valuable lesson for future developments.

But in a way, I totally agree with you.

April 24th, 2003, 01:43 PM
I've lightened up since I wrote that with today's WTC news. :)

Funny though, usually I'm told I'm too much of an optimist. ;)

(Edited by JMGarcia at 1:44 pm on April 24, 2003)

April 24th, 2003, 02:14 PM
Quote: from ZippyTheChimp on 10:53 am on April 24, 2003
More sarcasm, right?
Who me? Never! But seriously, the park is the best part of this development - talk about a vast improvement.

April 26th, 2003, 09:53 PM
The model picture is the SOM designed Riverside South. The current plan is the same concept just different designs for the buildings it.


I wouldn't be surprised in a change of plans though.

April 26th, 2003, 10:36 PM
I like a few and I hate a few. I like the one on the top right in the third picture.

April 27th, 2003, 01:56 AM
The fifth from either side (I think from the right as well) remind me of brick AOLTW towers.

Am I crazy?

April 27th, 2003, 04:29 AM
And the San Remo, the Eldorado...

April 27th, 2003, 10:47 AM
I wish there was more of a siganture tower, something along the lines of Trump World Tower in terms of height, on the West Side. *

April 27th, 2003, 12:26 PM
Naturally you can't look at these buildings individually, it's the project as a whole that needs to be judged. And frankly I think it's not too bad.

April 27th, 2003, 01:21 PM
I agree.
I like the density. Maybe it'll function perfectly in the urban texture, who knows ?

April 27th, 2003, 01:25 PM
This complex is looking good :biggrin:. Already it's up to 6 buildings completed or under construction. Even if the others don't materialize soon this complex has already changed the west side for the better.

Of course It's a shame that we still have NIMBY's :angry: literally protesting the plan and saying how it will ruin the neighborhood or make it a target for terrorists or whatever. I mean, what do these people want?

April 27th, 2003, 01:27 PM
They just want to exist.
They must have a sexual problem.

April 27th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Naturally you can't look at these buildings individually, it's the project as a whole that needs to be judged. And frankly I think it's not too bad.

I think that as a whole is where the project fails aesthetically. *Individually, these beings would be tolerable, or "not too bad," as you say. * They would be typical post-modern contextualism. *But the project is so vast and prominently situated that it is its own context: therefore the architecture needs to be more assertive and well-defined. *

The familiar formula for developers won't work here. *There is no context to hide behind, so there are these huge, rude buildings pathetically trying to hide in plain sight, behind lame immitations of classic Manhattan buildings. *

I'm not naive, and I'm also not opposed to huge, rude buildings. *But I do expect that there should be more than just greed driving how we develop our cityscape. *this is going to be an eyesore for generations, long after the people who built it made all their money and died.

April 27th, 2003, 10:27 PM
"But the project is so vast and prominently situated that it is its own context: therefore the architecture needs to be more assertive and well-defined."

* I absolutely agree. Any building, not just the huge, well-publicized projects in prominent locations should be assertive and well-defined; as you say it should possess it’s “own context.” But unfortunately the reality is that today’s architecture tries to include as many groups and tastes there as possible. Diluting any originality and grandness in the process, and resulting in bland, “rude”, safe buildings.

Really, it’s a feeble attempt to take out the polarizing factor, because when it comes to billion dollar projects it is easier to go the conservative way, knowing at least that the return on this money will be there. But polarization isn’t always bad. Even the world’s best architecture is hated. People will disagree.

If you want to avoid building an eyesore start with the WTC; now that, if built, is going to be ugly.

TLOZ Link5
April 28th, 2003, 04:20 PM
You mean, "if rebuilt, that is going to be ugly," right?

May 28th, 2003, 10:15 PM
Construction is in progress on 240 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_240_riverside.htm), next to 220 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_220_riverside.htm). 26 May 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/images/trump_place_240riverside_26may03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_240_riverside.htm)

May 28th, 2003, 10:20 PM
It's a shame what happened to the building behind it... we'll have to wait and see if it was worth it.

May 29th, 2003, 08:59 AM
Beyond the obvious residential component, is there substantial development of a street level commercial strip? *Not much retail in that area. Supermarkets? Delis?

TLOZ Link5
May 29th, 2003, 05:35 PM
Trump said that about 1 million square feet of "commercial space" (which could be retail, hotel, office, etc) was planned at the southern end of the site along 59th Street. *Relatively recently, however, he said he was in discussions with the zoning board to rezone that space as residential.

July 2nd, 2003, 11:55 AM
Latest at Riverside South:

240 getting taller, though no tower yet.



From under the highway

Interesting view of AOL/TW from here

July 2nd, 2003, 12:12 PM
You have a really good camera-nice pictures

July 2nd, 2003, 12:21 PM
Your pictures almost make the other buildings look good.

July 2nd, 2003, 12:34 PM
It's the camera - I stuck it in my shorts before setting off on my bike. I think the lens has sweat on it, so it gives it that misty quality. But really, the blue sky and the sun at my back helps more than anything.

The park area under the highway is shaping up - should be real nice.

July 2nd, 2003, 12:39 PM
Yes, I can discern the sweat effect.

July 2nd, 2003, 01:52 PM
The second picture is superb.
I posted it in a French forum and made you famous. I hope you don't mind. If you do, I'll remove it.

July 2nd, 2003, 02:51 PM
Maybe I'll become famous throughout France for my trademark sweat affect, merci!

July 2nd, 2003, 04:37 PM
Mais je t'en prie.

I must say the sweat effect is totally invisible for me. Maybe I'm blinded by the beauty of the new skyscrapers. Especially the one with blue corner windows. Not very imaginative, but what a nice place to live in !

July 3rd, 2003, 11:07 AM
Hi, I'm new here, so first here is the master plan for trump place.

and for 240 Riverside Boulevard at Trump Place


and here is Trump World Tower

July 3rd, 2003, 01:43 PM
Welcome here and thanks for the links.
The new building under construction makes me think of the old tower in Antwerp, Belgium, the famous KBC Tower.


What's similar is the contact between the street level and the tower.

July 3rd, 2003, 07:54 PM
Good connection. They really look a lot alike.

July 5th, 2003, 05:02 AM
I know someone who owns a huge tract of land across the river (on the Jersey side) opposite the Trump developments. His family has been trying to develop it for decades and the state won't let him so it remains fallow. He was offered 330 million by the state for a new hospital in the early '90s but declined. He's holding onto it and will likely pass it onto his son who will likely lobby/petition/bribe whoever it takes to get the land developed. Has anyone heard of what's going on the Jersey side?

July 7th, 2003, 10:38 AM
Hard to imagine such a huge tract of undeveloped land that far south of the GW Bridge. Side of a cliff?

July 7th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Nah. I think it's and a bunch of abandoned buildings, railyard, that sort of thing. I remember seeing pictures of it too, it's right on the bank of the river.

July 9th, 2003, 10:46 AM
Here is the next building at Trump Place. It's planned to have 288 rentals.

120 Riverside Boulevard
Trump Place
21 stories
Costas Kondylis & Partners/Philip Johnson Alan Ritchie Architects

Rendering from Philip Johnson Alan Ritchie Architects' website \http://www.pjar.com/
The buildings will start to progress higher after this one.

July 9th, 2003, 12:31 PM
Site of the next building

A look at the backside. W66 St and Freedom Pl

July 9th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Come on. Creativity must be a lost thing.

July 9th, 2003, 02:15 PM
A Disaster. *Utter catastrophe. *Such a vast complex, so prominently situated, so oppressively ugly. *A tragic episode in American history. *

The best undeveloped site in the most important city in the richest and most powerful nation on earth, and this is the best we can do?

July 9th, 2003, 02:17 PM
Complacency. The way to fall off.

July 9th, 2003, 02:18 PM
Oh, and that Belgian building has some subtlety and refinement -- qualities sorely lacking from these monsters.

July 9th, 2003, 02:24 PM
What are you talking about?

TLOZ Link5
July 9th, 2003, 02:24 PM
Mediocre. *That's the only word to describe these buildings.

July 9th, 2003, 02:26 PM
But your pictures are very nice, Zippy.

July 9th, 2003, 03:00 PM
I figured you folks would love this perspective.
Even the street level masonry is of low quality.
And it's only one third complete.

July 9th, 2003, 03:07 PM
What a shame, and in such a prime location too. The second picture almost looks like a rendering. I like how the towers increase in size in that view.

July 9th, 2003, 03:20 PM
This view shows how large this project is.
sorry about the jagged buildings. This wasn't supposed to be a panorama. :)

July 9th, 2003, 05:17 PM
Quote: from dbhstockton on 2:15 pm on July 9, 2003
A Disaster. *Utter catastrophe. *Such a vast complex, so prominently situated, so oppressively ugly. *A tragic episode in American history. *

You can't be serious.
I almost like this complex, although I totally understand that it competely lacks creativity.

But there's something else. You can't deny that, in a way, it's typically New York, that kind of 'ugliness' belongs in the city.

July 9th, 2003, 06:44 PM
I'm completely serious. *I despise Trump Place with every fiber of my being. *It fills me with despair to see it.

TLOZ Link5
July 9th, 2003, 08:39 PM
Quote: from ZippyTheChimp on 3:00 pm on July 9, 2003
I figured you folks would love this perspective.
Even the street level masonry is of low quality.
And it's only one third complete.

I wouldn't necessarily say "low quality." *If you want to see that, then you ought to check out the Metropolitan, which is under construction on 3rd Avenue in the low 90s.

::sigh:: *These buildings are really nothing more than average. *Contextual, at best; yet still incredibly dull. *Kondylis is definitely capable of better, especially if it's a Trump development. *However, I really can't blame Trump for this: NIMBYs shot his Television City complex out of the sky in the early '90s, so he was forced to compromise with...that. *But the new park is definitely welcome.

July 9th, 2003, 08:54 PM
I don't get it. You really want to see bad, look at all those Unite' slabs a block or two east. At one time, that's what we would have gotten.

Time to be grateful: grateful for ground floor commercial, for street wall, for formal variation, for proper endings at the sky, for good proportions. Not every building can or should be a work of genius. This ensemble makes a very acceptable riverfront cliff.

July 10th, 2003, 07:26 AM
what trains go on those tracks?

July 10th, 2003, 01:17 PM

July 10th, 2003, 01:28 PM
The only thing I'm grateful for is the park, and it seems disconnected from the neighborhood. Maybe because it's still new, but there is no sense of place.

The fact that it compares well to the ugly superblock next door is no reason for acceptance. These are not background buildings - the site is prominent.

July 10th, 2003, 01:59 PM
It depends what you mean by prominent.
I think there are at least a dozen sites in Manhattan that are much more prominent.

July 10th, 2003, 02:14 PM
70 acres on a ridge overlooking a park on the river.
Sixteen buildings, two blocks deep on the southern end.
Too much space for mediocrity.

July 10th, 2003, 04:21 PM
OK, the site is large. I'm not denying that.
It would have been a miracle if the whole area had been filled with masterpieces. Of course, I wish there was a tall signature tower...

July 10th, 2003, 04:51 PM
I know I'm being a little picky, but I had high hopes for the site, maybe because it was inaccessable for so long, sort of like Governor's Island.

Of course, the completed project may make me change my mind,
but not so far.

July 10th, 2003, 06:05 PM
Well, it is only about 1/3 of the way done. *Who knows what may be built in the future. *Plus, maybe the sheer size of the total development will make you appreciate it more. *I would just be temporarily satisfied that we are getting more towers and it's not just fallow land and that we are going to get a pretty nice riverside park out of the deal. *There's still a lof left to go in this deal. *Plus, Trump is pushing expensive housing - people seem to like "traditional, brick" towers, especially older, wealthier people. *There are tons of buildings like this and more going up all the time. Of course, why should average be accepted and why should the conventional take over such a prime development spot? *That's not something that can be answered too quickly or thoroughly, unfortunatley.

July 14th, 2003, 08:43 PM
Quote: from dbhstockton on 2:18 pm on July 9, 2003
Oh, and that Belgian building has some subtlety and refinement -- qualities sorely lacking from these monsters.

What Belgian building?

TLOZ Link5
July 14th, 2003, 09:38 PM
Quote: from Christian Wieland on 8:43 pm on July 14, 2003

Quote: from dbhstockton on 2:18 pm on July 9, 2003
Oh, and that Belgian building has some subtlety and refinement -- qualities sorely lacking from these monsters.

What Belgian building?

An art-deco building in Antwerp which is considered Europe's first skyscraper. *Fabb posted a link to its profile on ss.com earlier in this thread.

July 16th, 2003, 07:33 AM
TLOZ, are you crazy ? Christian hates my references, he's going to yell again...

(Edited by Fabb at 1:49 pm on July 16, 2003)

TLOZ Link5
July 16th, 2003, 02:10 PM

Be nice, Fabb. *:)

September 21st, 2003, 11:48 PM
It sure looks better than what it was before!!

September 22nd, 2003, 12:00 AM
Hello, I am new to this site...I think everything you guys talk about is really cool. It is my kind of site.

I am in Philadelphia. But I am about to move to Manhattan in early December hopefully. My family search for a new home (especially in the Upper West Side) and we found 240 Riverside Boulevard as our home. It is a great and beautiful building. (The best one so far in these whole development. Although 240 Riverside looks very promising. The other ones could it have use a better touch. But that's what is great about NY! Not everything is perfect.)

The inside of the building took my breath away. I will tell you we had a little trouble at first coming to this building because of the Trump name. But he sure created alot of great details for his residents. The apartment is wonderful! We are in the 19th floor and have big windows with views in 3 directions. The river (west), north and east. I hope they bury the highway but the broker said not to count on it.

I hope they fill the place with retail. Nothing yet. (A nice supermarket (Whole Foods), drug store (CVS), video store (Blockbusters) will be great!)

Hopefully I am going to be working on 424 W 33th. between 9th and 10th. An old building just redone with beautifull offices inside. Just behid the post office. A very deserted area that needs a big development to happen. Anyone looking for new office space out there with super fair rates this is the place so far.

The cool thing about this is that I can ride my bike from home to work on the Hudson park bike trail on good days and take the subway on bad days.

I am defenetly waiting to have the New York experience again. (Just like I did in the late 80's back in Queens! Of course a different one.)

September 22nd, 2003, 09:11 AM
The inside of the building took my breath away. I will tell you we had a little trouble at first coming to this building because of the Trump name. But he sure created alot of great details for his residents. The apartment is wonderful! We are in the 19th floor and have big windows with views in 3 directions. The river (west), north and east.

Trump knows how to make residents happy.
And on a grand scale too.
NY would probably be not quite the same without him.

September 22nd, 2003, 06:37 PM
I agree with you on that one Fabb. I think NY needs more developers like Trump.

After having a talk to the building's broker, he said that in NY, community leaders and other people get upset about any new construction projects (especially new and tall buildings.) But Trump sort of always manages to wins. Ofcourse with a set back. When he got the project, he was restricted by NY (because of the concern of the comunity leaders and other people in the area) on not building a too tall building in the area. So there were hight restrictions. Knowing trump, he would it build them tall. Also these types of buildings were favor by the so called community after long talks and other building ideas that he had in mind were lost. The community wanted buildings to blend in with what was on the area. He promised the community that they will blend in. (although I think he has change some of the sketches a little.)

So what he is building is what we get.

September 23rd, 2003, 09:05 PM
Trump knows how to make residents happy.
And on a grand scale too.
NY would probably be not quite the same without him.

He's also NYC's best hope for creating a WTB - a true WTB sans spire.

Freedom Tower
September 23rd, 2003, 09:54 PM
That may be true Brooklyn Rider, but with each new rendering the Freedom Tower gets better and better. I hope it continues to only increase in size instead of decrease. If what I hear currently is true, the antenna will be at 2100 feet and roof at 1776 so it is well on its way to a real WTB. In fact, if this is all true, it will be a REAL WTB. Although the office space will end at around 900 or 1000 feet. But the designs are still not final.

October 13th, 2003, 04:04 PM


TLOZ Link5
October 13th, 2003, 05:26 PM
I went by Trump Place a week ago or so. There's barely any space between the Heritage and the fire escapes of the Chatsworth next door. You could probably reach out of a window in one building and shake hands with an occupant of the other.

November 21st, 2003, 01:17 PM
120 Riverside Boulevard started site work last week. I have seen a rendering and it's a short 23 story building with a lot of fussy detail that makes it about as blah as the other buildings.


November 21st, 2003, 02:54 PM
...I am about to move to Manhattan in early December.... My family search for a new home (especially in the Upper West Side) and we found 240 Riverside Boulevard as our home....The apartment is wonderful! We are in the 19th floor and have big windows with views in 3 directions. The river (west), north and east.

Congratulations on not being amongst the poor or middle class in New York City. It sounds wonderful!

November 21st, 2003, 04:07 PM
120 doesn't look that bad. It looks like it takes after 240 more than the other buildings (especially the water tower), and incorporates some 220.

November 21st, 2003, 04:14 PM
Yes, i do see some 220 in that building.

November 22nd, 2003, 07:06 PM
I took these pictures on a rainy day. Hope you will enjoyed!


November 24th, 2003, 03:09 PM
Congratulations on not being amongst the poor or middle class in New York City. It sounds wonderful!

Well, First of all I lived in Queens for 2 years in 1988 & 1989. Until I moved to North Philadelphia (WORST). In Queens I lived on a house on 48 st. and close to the Queens Blvd. It was awlful...with drug addicts and crime. I went to a Junior High School there when I was 11 yrs old. The house was full of people and Rouches and Rats.

After a sucessfull business in Center City Philadelphia after the late 1990's and early 2000's and selling properties in philadelphia and overseas...My family thought about investing in the suburbs or Manhattan. I conviced them to try Manhattan.

Thank You...

November 24th, 2003, 04:44 PM
Congratulations on recognizing sarcasm. :wink:

That's a nice view of TWC. Now take some photos on a clear day.

December 16th, 2003, 01:23 PM
The latest building's site work has started.

It looks like only one building directly behind the ABC studios building is going up. The have been pushing a gargantuan amount of earth around the site and have filled in part of the old parking lot adjacent to the site.
Note all the foundation pilings. Most of that is actually under the street extension. The train viaduct formwork is also starting. An impressive amount of earth moving equipment for a Manhattan site.

December 16th, 2003, 02:45 PM
I watched the construction process of the completed building next door. A thick concrete retaining wall about 30 ft high is built to hold back the earth fill. Once they reach street level, a second steel dam is built on the southern side of the site. As the building goes up, truckloads of soil are dumped between the two dams, forming a hill from the park up to the new street. This took as long as the building construction.

January 10th, 2004, 12:39 AM
January 10, 2004

West Side Highway Exit Lost to Trump Project


The Route 9A northbound exit ramp at West 72nd Street, alongside Trump Place, will close to make way for a new route between West 59th and West 72nd Streets.

New York City officials agreed yesterday to take the extraordinary step of permanently closing an exit ramp off the West Side Highway to accommodate the developer Donald Trump's vision for his $3 billion project on the Upper West Side.

The project, known as Trump Place, is expected to stretch from 59th Street to 72nd Street and include 17 waterfront buildings, 5,700 apartment units, 137,800 feet of retail space and a 21.5-acre park. Several buildings have been finished and tenants have begun moving in.

A key element of Mr. Trump's plan has been the construction of a new north-south throughway, called Riverside Boulevard, that would run parallel to West End Avenue on the east and offer unimpeded passage from Riverside Drive at 72nd Street to 12th Avenue at 59th Street.

To make room for the crucial link at 72nd Street, however, Mr. Trump's plan required the closing of the northbound exit ramp off Route 9A because it was in the way, and yesterday city officials signed off on the closing.

Neighborhood groups and local politicians expressed outrage yesterday at the decision to close the ramp, saying that officials have agreed to redraw the city map to accommodate one person's project. Assemblyman Scott M. Stringer, Congressman Jerrold L. Nadler and City Councilwoman Gale A. Brewer recently met with city officials to lobby against the closing.

"This benefits one individual, Donald Trump," said Mr. Stringer, who represents the Upper West Side. "And the reality is, there is a potential for a traffic nightmare."

Mr. Trump's complex was approved more than a decade ago, after a protracted struggle. But construction on the project has taken time, as he has fought off lawsuits and community opposition, and when he finally asked last February that he be allowed to proceed with the closing of the exit ramp, the New York City Department of Transportation told him he needed to provide new information to prove that traffic, air quality and other conditions had not changed significantly.

"I was a little surprised when all of a sudden they said, `Why don't we review this. Maybe we don't want to do it,' " Mr. Trump said yesterday in a telephone interview. "This was something that was agreed to, signed and sealed."

Only a small section of the boulevard has been built, as Mr. Trump has been coordinating roadwork with completion of the buildings. Recently he began working on Building A, which is on 72nd Street and requires the ramp to be closed.

The developer eventually came back with an assessment that conditions had not changed significantly, and city officials took several months to study it. Yesterday, they issued a letter reauthorizing the closing, provided that Mr. Trump redraw the lanes on West End Avenue to include a turning lane. This will help mitigate the extra traffic on the road, before the full length of the boulevard is finally completed in 2012, officials said.

West End Avenue now has two lanes in each direction, and parking lanes on both sides. The street is already wide enough to hold more lanes, officials said. Lines will be repainted so that there will be three lanes in both directions, along with the turning lane. This will probably mean, however, that parking will be prohibited from 7 to 10 a.m. on the southbound side and 4 to 7 p.m. on the northbound side, something that has upset residents.

Residents are afraid the closing of the exit ramp will force extra traffic onto West End Avenue, which they say is already overburdened with vehicles. Residents also have complained that traffic on Route 9A would back up at the next exit to the north, 79th Street, where they say traffic congestion already exists.

"Our streets really can't handle all the automobiles that we have," said Dale Brown, a member of the West 79th Street Museum Block Association.

But city officials said their analysis showed that traffic congestion would not worsen significantly after the ramp closing. Only about four cars per minute use the exit during rush hour, said Michael Primeggia, deputy commissioner of traffic operations for the city's Transportation Department.

"In Manhattan, that's a sneeze," he said.

In contrast, more than nine cars a minute use sections of busy north-south avenues, he said.

Several community groups had pushed city officials to consider alternative plans that they said would allow the exit ramp to coexist with the completed boulevard, but officials said the plans did not hold up after analysis.

"It seems to me that they're thumbing their noses at the whole west side," said Madeleine Polayes, the president of the Coalition for a Livable West Side, one of the groups fighting the closing. "We'll do what we want to do. We don't have to listen to anybody."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

January 10th, 2004, 03:54 AM
Assholes... he's building 20plus waterfront park acres and 130K sq. ft. of retail. I think it's a fair trade.

January 10th, 2004, 10:17 AM
"Residents are afraid the closing of the exit ramp will force extra traffic onto West End Avenue, which they say is already overburdened with vehicles. Residents also have complained that traffic on Route 9A would back up at the next exit to the north, 79th Street, where they say traffic congestion already exists.

"Our streets really can't handle all the automobiles that we have," said Dale Brown, a member of the West 79th Street Museum Block Association.

But city officials said their analysis showed that traffic congestion would not worsen significantly after the ramp closing. Only about four cars per minute use the exit during rush hour, said Michael Primeggia, deputy commissioner of traffic operations for the city's Transportation Department.

"In Manhattan, that's a sneeze," he said.

In contrast, more than nine cars a minute use sections of busy north-south avenues, he said."

So if nine cars per minute is in contrast to four cars per minute, then 13 cars per minute will be a nightmare.

January 12th, 2004, 11:12 AM
Not only do I support closing that ramp, which is one less option for people from Westchester, Connecticut and Jersey to bring their cars into the neighborhood, I support Trump's proposl to bury 9A under the new park (which is turning out to be a very nice amenity for city dwellers).

January 12th, 2004, 11:36 AM
The intersection (end of Riverside Dr & w 72 st) is a pedestrian blocker. The addition of a new street will only make it worse. The closing is a good idea.

As for the tunnel, it would be nice, but Trump is probably going to have to fund it himself. The highway was completely rebuilt in 1996, and I doubt this is a high priority for the DOT.

Other than blocking some apartment views, the highway isn't really intrusive. It's at least 60 ft high, and creates protected space underneath.

January 12th, 2004, 11:40 AM
The highway was not changed because of a personal quarrell between Nadler and Trump. Nadler blocked funding and changes to the highway.

January 12th, 2004, 11:51 AM
That occurred in 1999. It's unreasonable that there would be any political support to tear down a 3 year old highway.

January 12th, 2004, 11:52 AM
It took them forever to finish that too.

January 14th, 2004, 05:19 PM
The highway was not changed because of a personal quarrell between Nadler and Trump. Nadler blocked funding and changes to the highway.

I believe Trump referred to Nadler as "a Gnat. A Very Fat Gnat." LOL

Nadler and the rest of the Upper West Side NIMBYs are horrible people and anti-anti-development even when it is positive for the neighborhood.

January 15th, 2004, 04:11 PM
I am a little dissapointed in those buildings. They look a bit squarish and clunky, like the other Trump projects I guess.

I think it would have looked a LOT better as almost a continuous curved wall running along the highways curve. The endpiece with that rounded end (I believe they did some creative payoffs to be able to get the building variance given for being so close to the surrounding structures too...) is a nice finishing touch that would have gone MUCH better with the "curved wall"....

January 15th, 2004, 10:20 PM
He had to dumb down the plans and architecture to get the NIMBYs to approve it.

January 15th, 2004, 10:23 PM
Yeah... that was pretty lame. Or is.

January 17th, 2004, 08:30 PM
Alright...it seems like Trump has done it again!!!

It wont take long for him to convice the city to place the highway under a tunnel. He is building a park for the whole city to enjoyed...isnt that alot! Manhattan needs to put more green next to the waterfront...not highways. Just look at other cities...like boston has done.

Then you will have the east side to want to do the same thing and that is alright with me as well. Residents deserve access to river not a highway.

January 17th, 2004, 08:54 PM
Don't hold your breath waiting for that tunnel. Even Trump, when asked by a TV reporter during the opening of the first park segment about replacing the highway, said something like maybe 20 or 30 years

The park he is building is part of the agreement to develop the property. He must also maintain it in perpetuity. There are two plans for the permenent park, one with and one without a tunnel.

The highway itself does not block access to the river. It only blocks views from some of Trump's apartments, so he can't charge more for them. :wink:

February 4th, 2004, 04:38 PM
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentint id=37008
DOT Agrees To Close W. Side Highway Exit Ramp To Accommodate Trump Place


A construction project from real estate developer Donald Trump may force the city to close a ramp on the West Side Highway.

February 25th, 2004, 11:13 PM
Foundation work progresses on 120 Riverside. The newly extended W66 St on the left.

The next segment of the park. Foundation artifacts?

The project so far

February 26th, 2004, 04:14 PM
It would look so much better without the twin pyramid buildings...

February 26th, 2004, 05:03 PM
It would look so much better without the elevated highway!

February 29th, 2004, 12:15 AM
Hmmm... I don't think they look that bad except for the monsterous bases, but then again I have never seen them in person.

March 8th, 2004, 12:47 PM
Phase II of the Riverside Park extension has been completed. Only one more phase left in this park.


March 12th, 2004, 01:50 AM
mr. bloomberg, tear down this road

March 12th, 2004, 06:50 AM
It's eight years old.

March 12th, 2004, 11:20 AM
While the elevated highway is a bit of an eyesore, they've built basketball courts underneath it and it's a nice place to get out of a summer thunderstorm.

March 12th, 2004, 12:17 PM
During last night's "the Apprentice" they had footage of Trump at a presentation for a new skyscraper, telling the people in the meeting that they expect to have the tenants on board before construction starts. The design of the building was on an easel next to him, and I didn't recognize it. Did anyone see the episode, and have any idea what building it was?

March 12th, 2004, 01:05 PM
I think it was the project in Chicago.

March 12th, 2004, 02:09 PM
That's what I thought too. Had that same spire.

April 2nd, 2004, 10:29 AM
nice building

April 2nd, 2004, 10:32 AM
They are taking borings to confirm soil conditions. They were also taking borings south of the current construction site. Initial plans for the the next towers to the south and connection of Freedom Place to 64th street have begun. have begun

April 2nd, 2004, 01:56 PM
thanks for the report! It is kind of cool how they have covered the train tracks already for that building.

April 13th, 2004, 06:54 PM
April 13, 2004

Westsiders sue Trump over exit closing

By Joshua Robin

A West Side community organization filed a lawsuit Tuesday that seeks to block the city's planned closure of a West Side Highway ramp to make way for a new Donald Trump development.

The Coalition for a Livable West Side says in court papers that the Department of Transportation's "arbitrary, capricious" decision to close the 72nd Street ramp will clog other ramps and endanger pedestrians crossing West End Avenue, which is slated to be widened from four to seven lanes in order to accommodate the increased traffic.

"The bottom line is there's no reason that residential streets on the West Side should turn into Queens Boulevard," said Assemb. Scott Stringer (D-Upper West Side), one of several elected officials to join the suit, filed in State Supreme Court in Manhattan.

The City Planning Commission in 1992 approved Trump's plan to build 5,700 new apartments between 59th and 72nd Streets.
After years of delays, city officials in January finally approved the ramp closure, which will make way for a new north-south street through the project, called Riverside Boulevard. Motorists seeking to exit the West Side Highway on 72nd Street would instead be forced to use 79th Street.

The Department of Transportation found in January that Trump "provided the maximum practicable mitigation of the significant adverse environmental impacts."

But the suit alleges that the city dismissed less intrusive ways to build the new road and shut out residents from the process.

"All of this was done privately -- there was no notice to the public or anything else," said attorney Richard Lippes. Trump declined to comment yesterday through a spokeswoman.

The Department of Transportation referred calls to the city Law Department. A spokeswoman there said lawyers were reviewing the suit.

Copyright 2004 Newsday, Inc.

April 13th, 2004, 07:19 PM
West End Avenue, which is slated to be widened from four to seven lanes in order to accommodate the increased traffic.

Is this correct? How are they going to do that?

April 13th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Hello all, :) How tal is this building supposed to be? Thanks!

TLOZ Link5
April 14th, 2004, 01:31 AM
Hello all, :) How tal is this building supposed to be? Thanks!

My, aren't we enthusiastic? j/k :)

Not very. I forget the exact height, but it should be around 300-350 feet high.

April 14th, 2004, 10:18 AM
Hello all, :) How tal is this building supposed to be? Thanks!
23 floors or so


April 14th, 2004, 10:21 AM
Anopther version...oh, which one...I think this one as I attended a pre-cast concrete seminar and the reps said they were providing the pre-cast for this building. this rendering seems to have much more pre-cast rather than the first rendering which seems to be mostly brick.


April 15th, 2004, 12:14 PM
"Westsiders sue Trump over exit closing"

:roll: They are not going to win this lawsuit. Trump has a lot of connections and he will win. Besides they don't speak for the rest of the westsiders...I am all for the closing of that ramp!

April 15th, 2004, 10:49 PM
Why cant Trump build the skyscraper that he's building in Chicago in NYC!? NY deserves it, not Chicago. It would look better in NYC anyways.

April 16th, 2004, 11:13 AM
Why cant Trump build the skyscraper that he's building in Chicago in NYC!? NY deserves it, not Chicago. It would look better in NYC anyways.
NIMBYs. He wanted to put up huge 100 story buildings on the West Side.

April 16th, 2004, 04:43 PM
Nimbys??? Whats that mean? (Sorry) Also, IS HE going to put up 100 stpry buildings on the west side of NY!?

TLOZ Link5
April 16th, 2004, 05:01 PM
NIMBY stands for Not In My BackYard, a label for people who vehemently protest locally undesirable developments in their neighborhoods. This can range from homeless shelters and power plants to more high-profile cases in the City, i.e. the Nets arena in downtown Brooklyn, the Con Ed site, Westway in the '70s and '80s, etc. They ramble on and on about the character of the neighborhood, environmental impacts, traffic, shadows, quality of life concerns, though often they use such complaints to mask concerns about their views being obscured or something else of that nature.

Other forms of NIMBY include TEDAOs (Tear Everything Down At Once) and BANANAs (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Not Anything).

April 16th, 2004, 11:23 PM
So he wanted to put up 100 story towers on the west side but peopledidnt want them? WHY!? It seems NY'ers would be used to skyscrapers by now! And also it seems like Trump would've done it anyways...no matter what the "Nimby's" say.

April 16th, 2004, 11:36 PM
Trump's buildings are over old railyards on the river. The owners of adjacent appartment buildings did not expect skyscrapers to be rising next door (in one case, the building is just 3 ft. from it's neighbor's windows), ruining their expensive river views forever. These are not poor people. They had the means to fight Trump, but Trump always seems to come out on top (He's been stopped a few times. but he doesn't let it slow him down). These buildings are not 100 stories, but they're still hulking beasts.

April 20th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Trump's buildings are over old railyards on the river. The owners of adjacent appartment buildings did not expect skyscrapers to be rising next door (in one case, the building is just 3 ft. from it's neighbor's windows), ruining their expensive river views forever. These are not poor people. They had the means to fight Trump, but Trump always seems to come out on top (He's been stopped a few times. but he doesn't let it slow him down). These buildings are not 100 stories, but they're still hulking beasts.

I don't feel too bad for the people in the building who lost their views. Possibly-illegal Lot line windows that faced on to a deeded parcel that is owned by Trump and his investors. Too bad. That's why they lost in court. That's NY.

April 22nd, 2004, 01:32 PM
building is moving along

April 22nd, 2004, 06:31 PM
:D I see progress!!

June 27th, 2004, 10:02 PM
Trump buildings and the new building going up with 200 Riverside almost finish:


June 28th, 2004, 09:56 AM
which two are they?? And they look pretty tall, how many floors do they have? Height?

June 28th, 2004, 03:33 PM
This whole development is just gross.

June 29th, 2004, 01:12 AM
which two are they?? And they look pretty tall, how many floors do they have? Height?

240 Riverside is the one all the way on the left and 120 riverside is the one you see under construction.

I like the development. I am glad trump made it happen. If it wasn't for him the area will be built with low rises since that is what the upper west side community wanted in the first place. Besides I live in one of those buildings. :wink:

Go Trump!!!

June 29th, 2004, 01:39 AM
I think the development has progressed nicely and looks pretty good -- why don't you like it Christian?

June 29th, 2004, 03:33 AM
I think the row of buildings looks like a toy representation of manhattan. Like a row of buildings along a side of a monopoly board. I'm not sure if that's ugly or cute. Just an observation.

June 29th, 2004, 06:52 AM
like a toy representation of manhattan.
That says it for me. It looks fake.

I'm sure it will be a nice place to live.

June 29th, 2004, 08:56 AM
I'm sure it will be a nice place to live.

It is. But I will tell you a set back for me. Back in the winter trying to get to my building about 40 feet before I got to the door I felt one of those chilly-codest-blowing winds during my walks in manhattan many times. Just remember how cold this past winter was. So with that wind you could freeze to death if you were not prepare to take it.

Otherwise I dont have complaints so far. :wink:

The buildings are fine with me I don't understand what is wrong with them. They all don't look the same. (thank God!) They are tall. Plus they get to hide those ugly bulky looking buildings in their back from the waterfront. You know the russian housing type of buildings you see in eastern europe that are there between 66th st and 70th st.

June 29th, 2004, 09:29 AM
What a waste of an opportunity. :x

June 29th, 2004, 09:45 AM

June 29th, 2004, 02:18 PM
any information on the relocating of the miller highway or when phase III of the park will be completed?

June 29th, 2004, 02:42 PM
any information on the relocating of the miller highway or when phase III of the park will be completed?

No I haven't heard no information yet. I ask two of the workers in the area and they don't know anything...but I hope they know what they are doing.

June 30th, 2004, 12:25 AM
Trump Buildings:


June 30th, 2004, 12:28 AM
240 Riverside:


June 30th, 2004, 12:33 AM
120 Riverside:


June 30th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Great and thorough.

But... when will it stop?

September 24th, 2004, 12:49 AM
Amazing picture of a mediocre development. Many other spectacular pics in this guys album too.


September 24th, 2004, 05:13 AM
Amazing picture of a mediocre development. Many other spectacular pics in this guys album too.


That album has some of the most beatiful pictures of New York I've ever seen :shock: 8) Thanks for the link :)

September 24th, 2004, 09:03 AM
Just wondering if forum members think the designs of these buildings should have been more cohesive to create an identifiable neighborhood, or if the mish mash of styles, colors, brickface, and windows works better. I'm not sure where I stand on it.

September 24th, 2004, 01:14 PM
I LOVE the way 220 looks at the top when it's lit up at night - a very nice shade of blue! Otherwise, I'm mixed on how I feel about this project. It's not 60's brutalist crap but it's not outstanding either. Buildings that strive to "fit in" never stand out on their own and invariably, end up just becoming background fillers. I understand they're on the riverfront, but that doesn't automatically make them wonderful or architecturally notable. Look at Larry Silverstein's apartment tower on the west end of 42nd Street...

September 24th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Hey, I like 1 River Place. ;)

Re BR: I think the way the 3 northern buildings have similar styles is nice. The other buildings however are too crappy to assess in terms of style. They could have been so much better.

September 24th, 2004, 02:44 PM
clears throat

Television City.

September 24th, 2004, 02:58 PM
Well, I was referring to this version. TV City... ah, TV City...

September 24th, 2004, 03:37 PM
Well, I was referring to this version. TV City... ah, TV City...

There was David Child's proposal that was a travesty in the 'retro' style:




May 26th, 2005, 08:01 PM
I know a lot of people don't like this development but I absolutely love Trump Place. My only complaint is I want more height, but especially the three northern most buildings, they are awesome! A couple of the other ones I'm iffy on, but as a whole, I love this new development.

It's better than empty lots!!!

Any new updates??

May 26th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Hey Stern, was that graph you posted earlier (On this thread) the Trump development? Or a Childs vision?

May 26th, 2005, 08:37 PM
Hey Stern, was that graph you posted earlier (On this thread) the Trump development? Or a Childs vision?

I was wondering that myself.

May 28th, 2005, 12:07 AM
Forgive me if this is here already...

100 Riverside Boulevard
30 floors, 344 ft
271 units
Architect: SLCE


May 28th, 2005, 10:42 AM
Hey Stern, was that graph you posted earlier (On this thread) the Trump development? Or a Childs vision?

Are you talking about the graphs on page 12, those are Child's designs.

May 31st, 2005, 11:23 PM

Trump Group Selling Parcel for $1.8 Billion

Published: June 1, 2005
A consortium of Hong Kong investors and Donald J. Trump are selling a stretch of riverfront land and three buildings on the Upper West Side for about $1.8 billion in the largest residential sale in city history and in the latest example of a rocketing housing market.

The Extell Development Corporation and the Carlyle Group have a tentative deal to buy a major swath of developable land at the onetime railroad yard between 59th and 72nd Streets, which has been turned into a luxury enclave known variously as Riverside South and Trump Place, according to real estate executives who have been briefed on the deal. The 77-acre property embraces what will be a 21-acre public park that slopes down to the Hudson River.

The deal comes as the average condominium price in Manhattan has soared to more than $1.2 million and as developable land has become increasingly rare, even as some economists worry that a housing bubble will soon burst.

Extell, which is building the 60-story Orion condo tower on 42nd Street and owns the W Hotel in Times Square, is buying the three rental buildings at the site, as well as lots to build eight more apartment houses and nearly 3,000 apartments. The deal also includes a five-acre parcel between 59th and 62nd Streets that real estate executives said could be rezoned for an additional 1,500 apartments. There are four condo buildings at the site that are not part of the deal.

It is unclear whether any new buildings on the site will bear Mr. Trump's name in characteristic gold letters. Real estate executives said that the new buyers would have to pay the developer for using his name.

"I think the potential for this site is huge, because in the aftermath of Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle, the redevelopment of the Far West Side is happening at an extremely rapid rate," said Nancy Packes, president of Feathered Nest, a residential broker.

The sale price was a huge number, Ms. Packes added. "But at any given point in time, when land and buildings change hands, people always question the potential rise in value," she said.

Allen Weisselberg, chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, declined to comment. Paul Davis, chief executive of Hudson Waterfront Associations, which represents the Hong Kong investors in New York, was unavailable for comment yesterday.

Longtime critics of Mr. Trump and his project welcomed his departure yesterday.

"Even though they're paying an exorbitant price in this overheated market, we hope the new owners will be more responsive to the community," Madeleine Polayes, a leader of the Coalition for a Livable West Side and a longtime opponent of Mr. Trump and his project, said through a spokeswoman. "Can we get the name changed from Trump Place to something else?"

If it is completed, real estate executives said, the deal should be a windfall for the investors and Mr. Trump, who acquired the land for less than $100 million a decade ago during a real estate recession.

There is little question that the market is hot once again. Last year, the 15-story Mayflower Hotel near Lincoln Center and a vacant lot next door sold for $401 million to a group with plans to build a large apartment tower. And in April, a group led by Kent Swig paid $418 million for the 50-story, 845-unit Sheffield apartment house on 57th Street between Eighth and Ninth Avenues.

The former freight yard property has a long and tortured history as the largest parcel of undeveloped land in Manhattan. Mr. Trump first gained control of the defunct freight yard in 1974. Unable to build, he sold the property to another developer, who also made little progress. Mr. Trump regained control of the property in 1982 and later proposed building Television City, a wall of skyscrapers along the waterfront, including a 150-story tower, the tallest in the world.

But that project came under intense criticism from city planners and civic and neighborhood groups and the proposal died in 1987.

With the city in a deep recession in 1991 and Mr. Trump laboring under enormous debts, the developer redesigned the project with his onetime opponents, the Municipal Art Society and five other civic organizations, creating a 21-acre public park along the water and pulling the buildings back to a newly created extension of Riverside Drive.

June 1st, 2005, 01:33 AM
Great news. I hope the new developers build something better and Trump does something worthwhile with the cash.

June 1st, 2005, 03:53 PM
Yeah, maybe we can get some good stuff to balance out the southernmost buildings there. The double pyramid one is really bad. But I doubt it.

June 2nd, 2005, 12:11 PM
Here is a story on how Trump made a good investment on this land! Now he can use that money and invest in more new buildings!


Trump, investors sell property for $1.8 billion
Property mogul bought New York land for $82 million in 1985

By Amy Yee
Updated: 5:46 p.m. ET June 1, 2005

NEW YORK - Property mogul Donald Trump and a group of Hong Kong investors have struck a $1.8 billion deal to sell a parcel of land in Manhattan in another sign that New York's real estate market is booming.

Private equity firm Carlyle Group and Extell Development Corporation, developer of the 60-story Orion condominium tower near Times Square, have tentatively agreed to buy the parcel of land that Trump originally bought in 1985 for $82 million.

Trump and the Hong Kong investors, represented by Hudson Waterfront Associations, are 50:50 partners in the deal.

Carlyle and Extell plan to build as many as 3,000 apartments on the 77 acres from 59th to 72nd Streets near the Hudson River. The land, a former railway yard, already includes three rental buildings.

Trump has other buildings in New York and is building high-rise condos in Chicago and Las Vegas.

His casino company, Trump Entertainment Resorts, separate from his real estate business, last month emerged from Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

With the average price for a condo in Manhattan well above $1 million and land increasingly scarce, investors and developers are eager to snap up property.

Prices for condos have more than doubled in the past five years or so, giving rise to fears that a bubble is forming.

Others say the property market in New York remains strong.

"New York is a unique market in the country. It's not speculative," said Pamela Liebman, chief executive of the Corcoran Group, a leading residential broker. "It's incredibly deep with everyone from first-time home buyers to retirees looking for a place in New York."

Carlyle's part in the deal reflects a trend among private equity firms to invest in real estate as equity markets remain uncertain and unstable.

Some private equity firms are also buying companies specifically for the value of their real estate.

Hotel properties in New York are also prime targets for acquisition as investors convert the buildings into condominiums.

© 2005 MSNBC.COM
© The Financial Times Ltd 2005. "FT" and "Financial Times" are trademarks of the Financial Times.

June 2nd, 2005, 12:12 PM
Yeah, maybe we can get some good stuff to balance out the southernmost buildings there. The double pyramid one is really bad. But I doubt it.

What building is the double pyramid one?

June 2nd, 2005, 04:06 PM
Second from left in this picture.. 180?


June 2nd, 2005, 04:31 PM
Yeah, that building is bad, but then again they all are. I don't have much hope for this new development, if Trump couldn’t get much done then no one will, NIMBY's effectively made this project completely forgettable.

June 21st, 2005, 01:00 AM
The Slatin Report
NYC 06 01 05
Peter Slatin


It's a sweet deal for The Donald, and perhaps even a sweeter one for those who have fought him for so long.

The New York Times is reporting that Donald Trump and the Hong Kong investors who have backed him at the 77-acre Riverside South project on the Upper West Side of Manhattan are selling out at a price The Times puts at $1.8 billion.

Trump has a relatively small minority stake in the project, but could make a huge windfall on the profits for his Hong Kong backers.

The buyers are the Extell Development Corp. of Boston and the Carlyle Group, a deep-pocketed Washington-based fund manager that made heavy investments in telecom-related real estate in the late 1990s.

Despite having been the focus of endless urban design and planning discussions and a strangely celebrated compromise between Trump and a consortium of urban-planning advocacy groups in 1991, the site now boasts some of the ugliest apartment towers in Manhattan, a defect that hasn't prevented renters from grabbing them up even as long-time residents grumble about overcrowded streets and subways. And the apparent success of these view-choking exteriors, designed almost exclusively by the architect Costas Kondylis, belies the current developer vogue for condominiums designed by star architects such as Richard Meier and Charles Gwathmey. Gwathmey, with his green-glass extrusion of a building for The Related Companies at Astor Place, has managed to deaden a lively corner; Trump's buildings, on the other hand, simply refuse to give grace to a place that was a shambles of an industrial zone before his construction crews arrived.

One prize that comes with the deal is a parcel that Trump tried to sell in the late 1990s but withdrew from the market: a five-acre chunk of land at the foot of West 59th Street that stretches to 62nd Street and is bounded by West End Avenue and the Hudson River. CBS, which envisioned a production studio and sound stages there, and a veritable parade of New York institutions of higher learning such as Columbia University and Hunter College, failed to come to terms with Trump and his broker at the time, Cushman & Wakefield. According to The Times, the site, zoned for industrial use, could be rezoned for housing and hold 1,500 units. That's on top of the 3,000 units the new owners could build on eight pads within the parcel. The acquisition also includes the three rental buildings Trump has erected, but not the four condominiums that are on the site.

The deal is yet another major bet on the continued strength of Manhattan's residential market, even as talk about a housing bubble persists and the bond market emits strange economic signals: on Tuesday, the yield on 10-year Treasury notes fell below 4.0% to 3.99%, signaling that some serious investors are not all that thrilled with the pace and direction of the country's economic growth.

June 21st, 2005, 11:30 AM
Equity Residential Buys $816M of West Side Portfolio

By Barbara Jarvie
Last updated: June 21, 2005 07:22am

NEW YORK CITY-Upon closing of a larger deal, Chicago-based Equity Residential will add 1,325 apartments here to its portfolio in an $816-million transaction. The company has entered into a contract to acquire Trump Place at 140, 160 and 180 Riverside Blvd. The purchase price equates to approximately $585,000 per apartment unit and $730 per sf of rentable apartment space.

This transaction is part of a larger transaction in which the Carlyle Group and Extell Development Co. are purchasing the three properties as well as a large tract of developable land on the Upper West Side from a consortium of Hong Kong investors and Donald J. Trump for just under $1.8 billion. The tract of land, which is bounded by 59th and 65th streets and West End Avenue and Riverside Boulevard, can accommodate the future delivery of more than ten buildings, according to Carlyle officials. Both transactions are expected to close in the third or fourth quarter.

The properties, which were constructed between 1998 and 2003, consist of 1,325 apartment units totaling approximately 1.1 million sf, approximately 40,000 sf of retail and 424 parking spaces. Equity anticipates that the initial capitalization rate on this acquisition, based on 2006 projections, will be 4.5%.

"Selling assets in non-core, slower growth markets and using that capital as a primary source to fund acquisitions in high-barrier markets is at the center of our portfolio strategy,“ says Bruce W. Duncan, Equity Residential's CEO. “This acquisition is a prime example of that plan in action."

In August, Equity Residential acquired its first asset here with the $93.1-million acquisition of Hudson Crossing. The REIT subsequently purchased the Lower Manhattan landmark 71 Broadway for approximately $100 million.

© 2005 by GlobeSt.com

TLOZ Link5
June 21st, 2005, 12:16 PM
"Gwathmey, with his green-glass extrusion of a building for The Related Companies at Astor Place, has managed to deaden a lively corner"

I'd venture to guess that a lot of that has to do with the fact that the construction scaffolding is still up, which makes the sidewalks beneath annoyingly narrow.

June 21st, 2005, 01:12 PM
Holy clunky crap batman!

June 21st, 2005, 02:00 PM
has managed to deaden a lively corner

I don't remember what was there before, but most of that intersection was only (excepting Cooper Union students, who I doubt will be deterred by this building) "lively" with people trying to trudge through its waves of traffic between Broadway and the East Village (unless they were also visiting one of the three Starbucks within sight of each other there).

June 21st, 2005, 02:15 PM
" deaden a lively corner;"

A parking lot was there before this building.

June 21st, 2005, 02:47 PM
A parking lot was there before this building.

But it was a LIVELY parking lot!!!!!

TLOZ Link5
June 21st, 2005, 03:31 PM
But it was a LIVELY parking lot!!!!!

Yes, it was lively with students cutting through it on their way to class.

June 22nd, 2005, 10:36 AM
Well, they had to do something there. The property belonged to Cooper Union and they weren't allowed to sell it. A 99 year lease was a good solution.

As for the sidewalk issue, the city seems to be addressing or, at least prepared to address it. There was a recent article in the NY Times (I think this week and likely posted somewhere here in WNY) that stated the city planned on reclaiming street space for sidewalks/pedestrians and landscaping the plaza.

June 22nd, 2005, 11:11 AM
Over 500 protesters and a few people in agreement with the impending changes on Astor Pl. and Cooper Sq. gathered in The Cooper Union's Great Hall on Tues., May 29, some to listen and some to heckle at Cooper Union's construction plans.
The town meeting, the second large-scale one about the tuition-free university's rebuilding plans, the planned Astor Pl. Hotel and reconfiguration of Taras Shevchenko Pl., was scheduled for the 900-seat Great Hall after 100 people were turned away several weeks before at a presentation in the 190-person-capacity Wollman Auditorium in Cooper Union's Engineering Building. That first large presentation also met with anger and skepticism.


Cooper Union reported that 450 people signed in for the forum and they estimate 500 attended. However, Anna Sawaryn, vice president of the Shevchenko Preservation Committee, said that based on her observation and that of others there were closer to 700-800 people. Most of the Great Hall's seats were filled and there were people standing in the back, Sawaryn said.

Last Tuesday's meeting began with Ronni Denes, vice president of external affairs for Cooper Union, noting how the Great Hall is a "national center for public discourse," reminding the crowd that Abraham Lincoln and Susan B. Anthony, among others, spoke there to educate and inform others.

Referring to those precedents and speaking about the future of Cooper Union, Denes said, "tonight's mission is about survival." She said the goal of the university's plans is to provide a "top-tier education for exceptional scholars" by rebuilding inadequate facilities and to put the institution on a "secure financial footing." She said Cooper Union has been running a 14-year deficit.

Then she shifted from Cooper Union's projects to what some have mockingly called "an upside-down piece of Swiss cheese" because of its design: the Astor Pl. Hotel, to be built by hotelier Ian Schrager on a Cooper Union-owned parking lot on Astor Pl. for which the hotel will get a 99-year lease. Hissing and booing ensued and one man shouted, "is that where the students are going to live?"

Paul Travis, managing partner at Washington Square Partners planning group, and Henry Stolzman, of the architectural firm Pasanella, Klein, Stolzman and Berg, followed Denes in explaining Cooper Union's plans.

Travis spoke of the overall plans: to provide modern facilities for Cooper Union's academic programs, remodel its Hewitt Building so that there are more floors and open the ground floor for use as retail space, close Taras Shevchenko Pl. to car traffic, and provide commercial office space and academic space in a taller, rebuilt Engineering Building.

"We want to hear all comments before we start," Travis said. "That's why we're here tonight. We hope that the new plans reflect all comments made."

"Any time you talk about change there will be some controversy about it," Travis continued, as his comments met with hoots and laughter.

Stolzman showed detailed slides of the proposed construction sites.

"But the most important aspect for most of you," Stolzman said, "is the reconfiguration of Fourth Ave."

According to the current plans, some lanes will be eliminated and Fourth Ave. will be changed to run one-way northbound below Eighth St. The eliminated lanes will be part of Cooper Union's and the new hotel's property. The Astor Pl. parking lot will extend to the island that contains "Alamo," the cube sculpture by Bernard Rosenthal; and Astor Pl., between Fourth and Third Aves., will be narrowed. Taras Shevchenko Pl. will become a pedestrian walkway.

Travis said a loading dock for the Hewitt Building - the current 1910 building does not have one - is slated for Sixth St. Under city rules, the loading dock can't be on an avenue, so Third Ave. is out, and it must be 50 feet from a corner, which is part of the reason they want to demap Taras Shevchenko Pl. - so there will technically be no street corner there. If the street isn't demapped, the loading dock would have to go on Taras Shevchenko Pl., Travis said.

Cooper Union has said they plan to keep the name Taras Shevchenko Pl. on city maps. The school has said it is committed to work with the East Village Ukrainian community to plan a commemoration of Taras Shevchenko.

Nonetheless, the crowd, more than three-quarters Ukrainian, reacted with skeptical jeers when Stolzman said the renovations to the one-block-long street - renamed for Shevchenko after years of effort by the Ukrainian community - would result in an even better memorial for the Ukrainian poet.

"There's no reason why there couldn't be a bust or more benches," Stolzman said. "We are looking for input from you to tell us."

The Ukrainians and neighbors also voiced concerns with Cooper Union's need for any construction at all. Audience members became increasingly irritated at the constant mention of additional commercial space in the new buildings.

People didn't buy Travis's argument when he said, "we believe that because there is continuous retail space on Third Ave., we should make the ground floor of the Hewitt Building retail space."

After Cooper Union's representatives spoke, 22 people who had signed up to voice their opinions emotionally shared their thoughts.

"I can see behind all of these lovely pictures," Serhij Hoshowsky of the ad-hoc Taras Shevchenko Pl. Preservation Committee said. "I see years and years of construction. I see trucks and taxis feeding into the hotel. You say someday we'll have the park, we'll have the trees. We will have endless construction in this neighborhood until there is no neighborhood left."

Luther Harris, a Washington Sq. resident, said, "I'm a fan of the Spanish architect [Antonio] Gaudi," in reference to the hotel's design which he says resembles Gaudi's work, "and I never thought I would see anything Gaudiesque in New York City and this new building is and I'm all for it. People hated the Eiffel Tower when it was built. They grew to love it. I think you will grow to love the hotel."

Not dissuaded by the audience's derisive cat calls, Harris said, "this building is going to be a centerpiece, a finial, if you will, for Astor Pl."

"I understand that you all have a lot of animosity," Stan Ries, co-chairperson of the Noho Neighborhood Association, told the audience. "But let me tell you the trouble we've had with N.Y.U. We have to sue them to find out what they're doing. This is the third public meeting Cooper Union has had. I commend them." [He apparently was including a presentation at Community Board 3 as the third public meeting.]

Kathryn Freed, First District City Councilmember, also testified, saying, "we appreciate Cooper Union as an institution of learning. But like so many universities in the city, they have forgotten that we are a city of neighborhoods. They are essentially turning this space into a college campus. I look forward to working with Cooper Union, but you must understand this is a neighborhood and not a campus."

Those opposing the project far outnumbered those for it. "The Ukrainian community is here and we are awake. We are a force to be reckoned with," said one opponent. "Don't tear up our neighborhood. Tear up your plans," said another.

Afterwards, asked how she thought the meeting went, Claire McCarthy, Cooper Union's director of communications, said, "it gave us an opportunity to present the plan to a large number of people so we could hear their concerns. Their concerns were heard."

McCarthy said there have been about 20 meetings, most of them small ones, where Cooper Union has identified and met with numerous people from community organizations and block associations, but, at the moment, the university has no further meetings planned.

Cooper Union has filed the certification application for its site plans and is waiting for Community Board 2 to review the application as part of the city's Uniform Land-Use Review Procedure. The community board will then hold a "scoping meeting" to hear comments from community members. Next, the board will send a written recommendation to the City Planning Commission, the applicant and the Borough President. The Borough President will weigh in on the application. The City Planning Commission must hold a public meeting to either approve or disapprove the application. Approval by the City Council and then the Mayor are the last steps in the application process.

June 22nd, 2005, 11:28 AM

What is the source and date of that article? The parking lot they are referring to is gone - now a shiny new residential tower. Is this from two years ago?

June 22nd, 2005, 12:06 PM
Talk about your combattive, beligerant, TERRITORIAL bastiches!

They do not supply CU with any funding, and tehy are complaining that CU is going to lease out so it can supply free education to those who qualify and all these guys keep saying is that this is a PRECURSOR to the entire neighborhood disappearing.

I think if they tried to draw a line in the sand on this issue, they should not include areas that do not contribute to the whole "neighborhood".

They have a right to express opinion on certain design concerns of the building itself, NOT whether or not it is to be built ("tear up your plans").


I can understand where they would not want some sort of monolithic monstrocity disrupting the area they now call home, but preventing CU from trying to get the funding it needs will only hurt the school, which will end up hurting the neighborhood in the long run.

June 22nd, 2005, 12:47 PM
Insane NIMBYism. Nothing in Cooper Union's plans is anything but good for the neighborhood. Or has perfection already been achieved at Astor Place?

These people would oppose anything that would augment the neighborhood, except of course the sacred cow of parkland.

alex ballard
June 22nd, 2005, 01:17 PM
I was extremely angry reading this article.....

Then I began to chuckle...

and laugh...

And holler...

What these fools don't realize is that if NY stops buidling housing, the housing prices will soar out of control. Prices of goods will skyrocket and cultural and economic diversity goes out the window (can you say 8 million white suburbanites?). HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Bring it on;). When those "activists" are living in Lawnguyland in 20 years, I'll send ya a postcard. MUhahaha! ;D

June 22nd, 2005, 02:27 PM
These people would oppose anything that would augment the neighborhood, except of course the sacred cow of parkland.

Not necessarily, I remember when there was a big protest against planting trees on 8th St.

A lot of NIMBYism is really just control issues and is often used as a "bargaining" chip to extort something unrelated, otherwise known as favor trading.

alex ballard
June 22nd, 2005, 02:59 PM
I agree that many of these people simply want control. Everyone in some sense wants control.

But I say don't give it to them. Not everyone is fit to have control. Use totalitarian regimes as an example of the wrong person having control.

June 22nd, 2005, 03:10 PM
That article is from June of 2001. It has absolutely no relevance today.

June 22nd, 2005, 05:26 PM
I found it quite interesting, never read that before.
This article is actually 4 years old!

July 12th, 2005, 09:56 AM



Donald Trump is so fired up over the low sales price negotiated by his partners for his Upper West Side property, he's suing them for up to $1 billion.

"The Apprentice" star owns a 30 percent stake in the 65-acre former rail yards on the Hudson River, between 59th and 72nd streets — Manhattan's largest undeveloped site slated for residential use.

In a lawsuit filed yesterday in Manhattan federal court, The Donald claims his partners — led by a consortium of Chinese investors — sold the land for $1.76 billion, almost $1.5 billion less than what was offered by competing bidders.

"These guys are either stupid, or far worse than that," Trump told The Post.

Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, said, "something very, very wrong has happened here."

According to the suit, the partnership helmed by Henry Cheng "improperly pressured Trump to surrender his rights" to the land.

Sources close to Trump speculated the buyer, Gary Barnett and the politically powerful Carlyle Group, could be looking to make a fast profit by flipping the property after the deal closes Aug. 16.

Neither Carlyle officials nor the defendants could be reached.

"They informed me they had a deal, and I said it wasn't high enough," said Trump.

"I told them we had higher bids before they went to contract. I said that they had to go out there and deal. This is the most important piece of property in Manhattan [for sale] in one of the hottest real-estate markets in history."

July 15th, 2005, 10:57 PM
New York Is Supported in Ruling on Exit Ramp


Published: July 16, 2005

A state appeals court panel has ruled that the city acted appropriately last year in agreeing to permanently close the 72nd Street exit ramp off the West Side Highway to accommodate a $3 billion building project being developed by Donald J. Trump.

The decision, issued Thursday and made public yesterday, reverses a lower court ruling that barred the city from closing the ramp until officials conducted further studies. A coalition of neighborhood groups and elected officials had sued to stop the closing, citing concerns about increased traffic, pedestrian safety and fewer parking spots.

The ruling leaves the city free to begin closing the exit, city lawyers said. But lawyers for the project's opponents said they planned an appeal to the state's highest court, and would probably seek a stay if the city scheduled work on the exit.

In its unanimous ruling, the five-member appellate panel said that the city's Department of Transportation, which had based its decision to close the exit on a 1992 environmental impact statement and a 2003 update on traffic patterns, had complied with the law and that no further environmental review was necessary.

Madeleine Polayes, the president of the Coalition for a Livable West Side, which led the opposition, said the decision was a blow. "There's a huge difference from 1992 to now in traffic and air quality," she said. "This would create havoc."

Assemblyman Scott M. Stringer, one of several elected officials who have opposed the ramp closing, said a thorough study of the closing's effects on the neighborhood was needed. "It's unfortunate for those of us in the community who are concerned this would create a traffic nightmare," he said of the appellate ruling. "We believe there should be a new environmental impact statement. And I think the D.O.T. should sit down with community leaders."

The project, known as Trump Place, spans a broad stretch along the Hudson River from 59th Street to 72nd Street and is expected to include 17 waterfront buildings, a 21.5-acre park, 5,700 apartments, and 137,800 feet of retail space.

The plan also includes the construction of a new north-south thoroughfare, called Riverside Boulevard, that would run parallel to West End Avenue and offer passage from 12th Avenue at 59th Street to Riverside Drive at 72nd Street. To make room for the 72nd Street link, Mr. Trump proposed closing the northbound exit ramp from the highway.

Mr. Trump's project was approved more than a decade ago, after a long struggle. Several buildings have been finished and tenants have begun moving in. But it was not until 2003 that Mr. Trump formally proposed closing the 72nd Street ramp. City officials asked him for new information to prove that traffic, air quality and other conditions had not changed significantly since 1992. After a review, they approved the closing in January 2004.

Several civic groups and other organizations supported the city's decision, including the Regional Plan Association, New Yorkers for Parks, the Municipal Art Society and the Riverside Park Fund.

City officials have said their analysis shows that the closing would not significantly worsen traffic. Citing those conclusions, the appellate panel said it had no authority to interfere, since the city had adhered to the state environmental review process. The court also observed that no one protested when the ramp closing was first proposed as part of the project more than a decade ago.

But Richard Lippes, the lead lawyer for the coalition, said the initial proposal had stated explicitly that there would be a separate environmental review if and when the ramp closing was proposed.

One thing is clear: The proposal has generated strong opposition. Many Upper West Siders have said they feared traffic on the highway would back up at 79th Street, the next exit to the north. They also said the closing could force extra traffic onto West End Avenue, which many say is already clogged with vehicles.

"Traffic has gotten worse since they first proposed this thing," Ms. Polayes said. "The red tour buses love West End Avenue. And where are all the people living in those new buildings going to park?"

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

July 15th, 2005, 11:16 PM
Hurray another set back for the liveable West Side people!!!

Now it will be easy to walk to the old park from my building!

Several civic groups and other organizations supported the city's decision, including the Regional Plan Association, New Yorkers for Parks, the Municipal Art Society and the Riverside Park Fund.

Well these guys were fine with the closing .. I didn't know this. Great news!

July 20th, 2005, 01:38 PM

Gary Barnett of Extell Development is bringing on a partner to help develop the vacant portion of Trump Place he is purchasing with the Carlyle Group from Donald J. Trump.

Sources tell us Barnett is going to work with Orin >Wilf, president of Skyline Developers, the city affiliate of New Jersey-based Garden Home Development.

Garden is redeveloping the Rockefeller Terraces on W. 54th St. as well as creating a luxury tower across from the landmark Gracie Mansion at 170 E. End Ave.

Neither could be reached for comment at press time.

July 20th, 2005, 02:16 PM
I would like to think that they will be moving on this ASAP. They need to make money on this MAJOR investment and the market has never been like this one. They could proably sell 100% of 2 or 3 nicely rendered buildings just on spec! Get moving...class and glass it up.

July 20th, 2005, 06:47 PM
That area has a LOT of buildings going up or in the pipeline, from CPW to the River.

July 27th, 2005, 01:01 AM
120 Riverside Blvd at Trump Place (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_120_riverside.htm) on 24 July 2005.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/images/120riverside_trump_place.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/trump_place_120_riverside.htm)

July 27th, 2005, 08:41 AM
BTW, what was the original reason for elevating the roadway that far up? Flooding concerns? Existing working pier/dockworks?

Right now it looks kind of like a waste of maintainance dollars.....

July 27th, 2005, 08:59 AM
BTW, what was the original reason for elevating the roadway that far up? Flooding concerns? Existing working pier/dockworks?

Clearance was necessary for the existing rail yards below:


WEST SIDE HIGHWAY 9A -- Historic Overview


July 27th, 2005, 10:31 PM
Does that mean there are plans to bring it down now that the railyard has gone?

July 27th, 2005, 10:48 PM
Trump wanted it to come down and go underground from 59th up to 72nd (and build a park -- or front yard for his buildings there -- on top).

But the project makes for a really expensive 13 blocks of roadway -- and has lots of opposition.

For now I think the idea is DOA.

July 28th, 2005, 10:13 AM
If I haven't done so before, this seems a good time to note that Trump Place is ugly as ugly can be.

July 28th, 2005, 10:29 AM
I agree -- ugly, dull, barely an ounce of creativity in the whole bunch ...


The only plus IMO is the new Riverside South Park along the river ...


July 28th, 2005, 11:10 AM
Trump wanted it to come down and go underground from 59th up to 72nd
There are 2 alternatives for the overall park, which will be completed once the buildings are done - with and without the elevated highway.

If the highway is buried, it will be beneath the new Riverside Blvd, which runs along the edge of the development.

Don't look for this to happen soon. The highway was reconstructed in 1996, and I doubt its replacement is a high priority at DOT.

July 28th, 2005, 11:18 AM
Maybe they can get Extell to bury the platform in exchange for unlimited building heights...um, I think I wet my pants.

July 28th, 2005, 11:48 AM
The elevated highway is currently useful for park purposes. It blocks the basketball courts from rain and the blazing sun and if there's a sudden downpour when you're biking/blading the path, it's useful to avoid getting soaked.

September 12th, 2005, 11:09 AM



Developer Gary Barnett is turning into a flagrant flipper.

Barnett is positioning himself to sell pieces of Trump Place land on the West Side that he is first scheduled to buy Thursday for $1.76 billion.

He has already contracted to flip the three rental properties to Sam Zell's Equity Residential Properties of Chicago for $816 million.

Meanwhile, Donald J. Trump is suing his own Hong Kong partners over both the amount and the distribution of his 30 percent stake in the sale, "which under the Chinese interpretation of their partnership agreement can be used to purchase assets in Siberia," said Mark Kasowitz, a lawyer for Trump.

Sources told The Post that Barnett of Extell Development of New York has been pitching three vacant parcels to other locals, including Aby Rosen, co-founder of RFR Holding LLC, and Tishman Speyer Properties.

None of the developers could be reached for comment but brokers say each potential condo parcel could be worth well more than $100 million — and a larger piece even more.

Sources said Barnett is still in discussions with the Wilf's Skyline Homes to sell three parcels, including the 1.8 million square foot commercial swath on the south end that could be rezoned for several residential towers.

It is unclear if Barnett is pitching these same parcels to the other developers — in an effort to flip them upon closing — or if he is trying to sell different parcels — effectively getting back all or most of his purchase price.

Barnett and the Washington, D.C.-based Carlyle Group are scheduled to close Thursday on the purchase of three rental buildings and undeveloped land between 59th and 65th streets.

Barnett previously told The Post he will construct the next two rentals buildings himself.

Trump developed the previous seven towers, generating $1.5 billion in condo sales. But earlier this year, the Chinese group said they wanted to cash out and were making a deal with Barnett.

Trump, a minority shareholder, warned the partners they were underselling and should put the properties out for bid, but the contract was signed anyway.

That sparked a legal battle that is still under way. At a hearing last week, the parties sparred over the distribution of the proceeds. Along with claiming the property should have garnered more bucks, Trump wants his share paid out to him immediately.

The Chinese say they can take the money and invest it anywhere in the world, including Siberia, as the attorneys admitted last week to the judge, who is yet to rule.

Any U.S. reinvestment must be made within a specific time period or 15 percent of the gains could be eaten up by federal taxes.

The most recent land sales have ranged from $325 to more than $420 a developable square foot.

September 13th, 2005, 01:54 AM
Extell's billion-dollar baby
Developer seeks bids to flip Riverside South parcels at top dollar; condos are king


By Julie Satow
September 12, 2005

Extell Development Corp. is quietly shopping a huge swath of land at Riverside South, the valuable West Side development that it agreed to purchase from Donald Trump and a consortium of investors only months ago, real estate sources say. The price tag could reach as high as $1 billion.

The move has caught industry insiders by surprise. Extell and its partner--Washington, D.C.-based investment fund The Carlyle Group--are planning to build condominium towers in another section of Riverside South and had been expected to develop the rest of the available property.

In June, Extell and Carlyle agreed to pay $1.76 billion for a chunk of Riverside South, in the city's largest residential property sale ever. Extell and Carlyle already have deals to sell three rental buildings for $816 million. Now, if they can get the right price to flip as much as 2.4 million square feet of vacant land, they could recoup their entire outlay.

At least two bidders have submitted offers on the property, which is between West 59th and West 61st streets, say lawyers and brokers who represent them. The names of the bidders could not be determined. Extell and Carlyle declined to comment.

The bids illustrate the persistent strength of the residential real estate market in Manhattan. While the flip is an opportunity for Extell and Carlyle to grab some immediate cash, bidders are betting on a longer-term payoff. Any buyer of the Riverside South parcels will likely use the property to develop its own condominium towers, with pricey luxury units that would not come on line for several years at least.

"The market continues to be very strong; buyers have been aggressive, and prices continue to move upward," says Nat Rockett, a senior vice president at Jones Lang LaSalle. "There is a lot of money out there on both the equity and lending sides."

The property in play includes 1.8 million square feet of developable land that is zoned for commercial use; a buyer would likely seek city approval to rezone it for residential use. The land being marketed also includes more than 570,000 square feet zoned for residential use.

Aiming high

The asking price--approximately $425 a square foot--is near the top of the market. Last month, New York Law School sold 57 Worth St. for $500 per developable square foot.

"At the right number, everything is for sale," says a real estate insider familiar with the Riverside South negotiations. "Extell and Carlyle are sellers, and the deals are price-driven."

Donald Trump purchased Riverside South, a 77-acre enclave that extends from West 59th Street to West 72nd Street, for $100 million in 1985. He proposed the construction of Television City, a 16.5 million-square-foot development for NBC that would have included the world's tallest building, at 152 stories. His plan was shelved after NBC backed out amid stiff community opposition.

Mr. Trump didn't give up. As he moved ahead on a new plan--including 16 residential buildings, commercial space and a waterfront public park--he found his empire in financial turmoil. He sold 70% of his interest in Riverside South in 1994 in order to finance his development there.

The pending sale to Extell and Carlyle helped raise the profile of Extell President Gary Barnett. He soon made a bid to develop a Brooklyn site, going up against real estate heavyweight Bruce Ratner--who was awarded the site, as most observers expected. A major resource enabling Mr. Barnett to aim so high is The Carlyle Group, which has invested in several of his properties, including the 60-story Orion condominium tower on West 42nd Street.

Extell and Carlyle's Riverside South purchase is expected to close by the end of this month. Mr. Trump is taking legal action against his partners, claiming that the sale is below market value.

Barring complications, Extell intends to build condos on vacant plots between West 61st and West 65th streets; it has already begun construction on part of that property, according to a real estate expert familiar with the strategy.

"Their business plan is to build condominiums on the vacant land," says a broker who is familiar with Extell and Carlyle. "But if the right price is put on the table, they will sell."

©2005 Crain Communications Inc.

September 13th, 2005, 02:23 AM
Trump Dispute Spotlights Asian Real-Estate Mogul

The two-pronged building in the foreground
is part of the property being disputed by Mr.
Trump and his Hong Kong partners.


The $1 billion lawsuit filed on July 18 by Donald Trump against a group of his Hong Kong investment partners didn't stop one of them, Vincent H.S. Lo, from unveiling a television show yesterday called "The Winner" -- loosely modeled on Mr. Trump's "The Apprentice."

The two real-estate moguls are a lot alike. While Mr. Trump perfects the art of the deal in New York, Mr. Lo wheels and deals in the one city that may be hotter: Shanghai.

Just as Mr. Trump has emblazoned his surname on marble and glass across the U.S., Mr. Lo, arguably China's most celebrated property developer, is stamping his brand across the mainland. State-owned Shanghai Media Group's Dragon TV and China Business News Channels plan to begin broadcasting Mr. Lo's TV show in September.

Mr. Trump says he is flattered by Mr. Lo's TV plans. "It just shows you how much Vincent respects me," he says. "We've always had a good relationship."

Mr. Trump filed suit against Mr. Lo and other Hong Kong investors who are partners with Mr. Trump in a 77-acre New York property on Manhattan's West Side. The group has contracted to sell the property for $1.76 billion to private-equity firm Carlyle Group and Extell Management Co., in what could be the biggest residential sale in New York's history.

But Mr. Trump says the sum is too low, and he claims in his suit that the partners are either "reckless, uninformed or grossly negligent."

"Someone may say you made a lot of money," Mr. Trump said in an interview. "But that's not how the game is played. You sell it for the proper amount of money. You don't give away an asset."

None of the partners, who include Hong Kong billionaire and New World Development Co. Chairman Henry Cheng, has commented specifically on the lawsuit, filed in federal district court in New York. Several of them are traditionally low-profile Asian tycoons who rarely speak to the news media.

But in an interview on the third floor of his Shanghai mansion, dubbed the Clubhouse, Mr. Lo calmly asserts that the suit lacks merit, as he sinks silver-tipped chopsticks into a five-course Cantonese lunch.

"The shareholders have already done everything possible to get the best sales price for the lot," Mr. Lo says of the real-estate partnership. He goes on to rattle off his current roster of projects, including some of the most-expensive developments in Shanghai, in addition to his new TV show.

He hopes to repeat his success with the $170 million Xintiandi project in Shanghai, a historically themed development that includes restaurants, bars and some of the priciest offices and apartments in China, as well as one of China's first Starbucks. The development, which has influenced projects throughout China, is owned by Mr. Lo's Shui On Land Ltd., which he says he plans to take public as soon as early next year. Last fall, his company had five ongoing development projects in different cities valued at a total of $8 billion.

The partners in the Manhattan property came together in 1994, when Mr. Trump was experiencing financial difficulties. The terms of the original deal prescribed that Messrs. Lo and Cheng and several other Hong Kong investors would purchase the plot from Mr. Trump for $82 million and assume $250 million in debt. Despite having pulled his own money out of the deal, Mr. Trump received a 30% interest in the newly formed partnership, lending his name and expertise to the development.

Since then, Mr. Trump has golfed with the two Chinese billionaires at his course outside New York City and even lent Mr. Cheng his plane to visit his children at private school in Connecticut, people familiar with the matter say. On this year's Forbes magazine list of the world's billionaires, Mr. Trump is No. 228, with $2.6 billion, falling between Mr. Cheng at No. 132, with $4.2 billion, and Mr. Lo at No. 507, with $1.3 billion.

In the current dispute, Mr. Trump, 59 years old, says there have been several offers to buy the property, including bids from developer Richard LeFrak, a close friend, and Barry Sternlicht, chairman emeritus of Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc.

One offer came from Thomas J. Barrack Jr., a friend of Mr. Trump's, who bid $2.9 billion for the property in May. Mr. Barrack, chairman and chief executive of Colony Capital LLC, a Los Angeles-based private-equity group, confirmed the bid yesterday through an assistant. Mr. Trump says that Mr. Cheng turned down every offer.

"He said, 'We are satisfied with the price,' " says Mr. Trump. "I said, 'How can you be satisfied?' " Mr. Trump still bristles when recalling the moment in April when the Hong Kong developers told him they were selling the West Side property. "To this day," Mr. Trump says, "it's the craziest deal I've ever seen."

Mr. Lo, 57, agrees that several offers were made for the site, but he says none received in writing was higher than the $1.76 billion selling price.

A spokesman for Mr. LeFrak says the developer wouldn't confirm or deny any discussions to buy the Manhattan site. Mr. Sternlicht wouldn't comment on any bids he might have made.

Scott Latham, a real-estate sales broker with Cushman & Wakefield Inc., says he had shopped the property to potential buyers for a year and couldn't find a buyer willing to pay more than $1.3 billion. "From my perspective, a sale at $1.76 [billion] was a phenomenal execution for the ownership consortium," he says. Mr. Latham says that he didn't arrange the deal with the Carlyle Group and Extell Management.

George Artz, a spokesman for Mr. Trump's Asian investment partners, said the group received "five written bids and Gary Barnett's was the highest," referring to the president of Extell Management.

One of the first Hong Kong businessmen to invest aggressively in China, Mr. Lo maintains close ties with mainland officials, earning the nickname "the king of guanxi," or connections.

Now he is poised to spread his fame with "The Winner." Like "The Apprentice," in which Mr. Trump tests the business mettle of contestants and revels in firing those who don't measure up, "The Winner" tests the entrepreneurial spirit of contestants in real-life situations. Each of 14 contestants will be given 100,000 yuan, or about $12,000, to launch a business and then will be followed over the course of the season. The one with the best project gets the grand prize of a million yuan.

But there are some telling differences. The winner on "The Apprentice" gets a job with Mr. Trump's company; The victor on "The Winner" will set up his or her own business. Mr. Trump famously appears on each episode of "The Apprentice," while in "The Winner," a panel of experts will evaluate contestants' business proposals weekly, only occasionally consulting Mr. Lo -- who says he has no intention of firing anyone.

"It's not a show for one individual's fame, but rather for the public interest," says Yun Binshu, a spokeswoman for Dragon TV.

Like Mr. Lo, Mr. Cheng is the son of a wealthy Hong Kong property tycoon. Mr. Cheng's multibillion-dollar conglomerate controls several prominent properties in Hong Kong but has suffered from overexpansion, incurring losses and, like many of the region's companies, piling up debt because of the 1997-98 Asian financial crisis. Since then, the company has erased some of its debts and won back the confidence of many investors.

Copyright © 2005 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

September 15th, 2005, 11:25 AM
NYC 09 15 05


Peter Slatin

Donald Trump's suit against his partners in the sale of the Riverside South property has been dismissed.

The dismissal was issued Wednesday by Justice Richard B. Lowe III of the Commercial Division of New York State's Supreme Court, and denied Trump's ten-motion attempt to keep the general partners that control the sprawling West Side site frm selling it – and from dumping the $1.76 billion in proceeds into a tax-free 1031 exchange. Doing so will allow the general partners to avoid paying some $500 million in taxes, according to an affidavit filed by an executive with the general partners.

More to the point for Donald, the 1031 exchange may also allow them to avoid distributing proceeds from the sale to their limited partners, including Trump.

Court papers say Trump's 30% stake in the property through a series of limited partnerships would be worth $528 million if the sale were an all-cash deal.

Essentially, the ruling disagrees with Trump's contention that the sellers were breaching their fiduciary duty to the limited partners by entering into the exchange, and in fact found that they were upholding that duty by avoiding the hardship of a humongous tax burden.

According to the ruling, Trump says that his partners offered to pay him his distribution in cash without putting his interest into the 1031 exchange. But while agreeing to the redemption,Trump, believing that the partners were not being forthcoming about all the money due him, insisted on a peek into the books of the general partner. He declined to sign a document that would have prevented him from taking any action against the group if they let him take that peek. No signature, no look, no cash.

Judge Lowe was apparently also not impressed by documents submitted by Trump to prove that his partners were fraudulently selling the site at a price well below its market value. Trump submitted what he said were unsolicited offers, in the form of a fax and a letter from two independent sources, suggesting that one would buy the property for $2.9 billion (Colony Capital) and the other for $3 billion (Richard LeFrak). But the judge found that these were simply "expressions of interest," and that there was no proof that these parties had done any due diligence or would proceed with an actual deal. On the other hand, the general partners were able to prove that they had received and discussed serious bids from five parties other than Extell/Carlyle – including Vornado Realty Trust and the Related Cos., and three other bidders, all of whom had done extensive research into the site and had made serious offers.

© 2003 - 2004. The Slatin Report.

September 16th, 2005, 04:11 AM
Is it true that Trump constructed space for a subway underneath his buildings at Riverside South adjacent to the Amtrak tunnel as part of the deal with community groups? I heard that he left space for station in the vicinity of 72nd St.

September 16th, 2005, 11:42 AM
Is it true that Trump constructed space for a subway underneath his buildings at Riverside South adjacent to the Amtrak tunnel as part of the deal with community groups? I heard that he left space for station in the vicinity of 72nd St.

There is space for a commuter rail station in the tunnels below Trump Place. No subway lines run anywhere near the property.

There are long-term plans to run Metro-North trains through the West Side rail tunnels to Penn Station. The link would include new Metro North stations on the West Side and in the East Bronx.

September 20th, 2005, 10:11 AM
I didn't see these links on this thread yet, though maybe I didn't go back far enough.






September 21st, 2005, 08:57 PM
Good find vc10! :)

September 29th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Panoramic view of the Trump Place from Weehawken in August of 2005.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/images/trump_place_panorama.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/)

Trump Place and Circle Line boat.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/images/trump_place_boat.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/trump_place/)

September 29th, 2005, 11:29 PM

September 29th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Hate the buildings ... Love the park.

The new area of the park (corresponding to approximately 66th to 63rd Streets if those ran all the way to the river) is really well done and makes a great connection to the river and the old piers.

September 30th, 2005, 07:29 PM
Hate the buildings ...
Could be worse. Could be as bad as the buildings behind them.

October 1st, 2005, 12:26 AM
Lincoln Towers?


Yep, they're not too special are they? But at street level they at least give you room to breath -- set back from the street and green space between.

Unlike Trumps troops, all lined up shoulder to shoulder.

October 1st, 2005, 08:30 AM
...at street level they at least give you room to breathe -- set back from the street and green space between.
You get that in the suburbs too. Maybe Corb and Moses were right.

...all lined up shoulder to shoulder.
That's the urban condition.

October 1st, 2005, 08:50 AM
^ I'm not aching for more towers in the park.

I like my urban spaces a bit messier.

Which is why I'm hopeful about the Gehry plan in Brooklyn (although not so crazy about the extent of Ratner's scheme).

October 1st, 2005, 01:58 PM
I like the Trump Place Buildings... Besides I live in one of them. ;)

So I ask which of the Trump Towers is the best. Even if you don't like any of them... which one do you hate the least?

Oh and those Lincoln Towers are hideous. I though they were project buildings at first.

October 1st, 2005, 06:24 PM
I like the one with the curve and the tallest one, the others are kinda bleh. I really don't like the purple one.

But think about it. Each of the buildings has its own personality and height. If this project were done 30 years ago it would look like Lincoln Towers. Plus Trump really did try to give us a WTB. Don't blame Trump and be, at the very least, content with what we got, plus a huge new park.

October 1st, 2005, 07:07 PM
But think about it. Each of the buildings has its own personality and height. If this project were done 30 years ago it would look like Lincoln Towers.
That's right.

October 1st, 2005, 10:56 PM
... Don't blame Trump...

His name is on this crap (Londonlawyer do you here me?) and he deserves every last bit of blame. I'm glad he's taken his crap show to Jersey City.

October 1st, 2005, 11:30 PM
As if anyone else would have done better? Give me a break. He wanted Television City. This project is all the nimbys doing, blame them.

October 2nd, 2005, 01:16 AM
As if anyone else would have done better? Give me a break. He wanted Television City. This project is all the nimbys doing, blame them.

Exactly MAS instituted this, not Trump.

October 2nd, 2005, 05:01 AM
Well,there is no accounting for taste.

As seen in the above photos, the Trump project looks perfectly fine. Scroll up to Edwards first photo (post #233). On the left side of the photo is the Trump project. On the right side of the photo you can see other residential buildings from the last few decades. Which do you prefer?

The project could have been more imaginative but lets count our blessings: no reflective glass, no "open drawer" style balconies, the sillouhettes are nicely stepped... no boxy slabs, the roofs are nicely finished with no crappy stuff visible... etc. The whole thing has a 1930´s traditional NYC feel to it style-wise. It´s going to age very well.

October 12th, 2005, 09:50 PM
David Child's never-built design for Trump Place:


October 12th, 2005, 09:52 PM
Riverside South Complex - Building "G"

Building: New York, N.Y.
Client: Trump New World
Architect: Philip Johnson / Alan Ritchie Costas Kondylis & Partners, LLP
Structure Type: 18-story plus 3-story underground parking / reinforced concrete
Project Category: Residential

Project Description
The project is located between 65th and 66th and Riverside Boulevard in New York City. The structure, with an approximate gross area of 380,000 square feet, consists of three underground levels used for parking and mechanical space, recreational use at the ground floor, 18 residential floors and two mechanical floors of cast in place concrete flat plate construction, utilizing eight inch thick floor slabs, supported by columns and a limited number of shear walls, which must conform to the architectural layouts.

Part of the tower and low-rise are located over active Amtrak railroad tracks. The columns located on this space are supported by conventionally formed 4 to 6-feet deep pick-up beams on the 2nd floor as well as others methods. The columns and shear walls located outside of the Amtrak easements rest on pile foundations.

All the columns above the 14th floor are supported by A 14" thick concrete slab, and in addition, about 40 out of 100 columns had to be relocated in order to accommodate varying apartment layouts above and below. Columns were repositioned by using "walking columns". This was done by introducing one or two-story walls that transfer the load from one column location above to a different column location below. The eccentricity of the transferred load causes an additional lateral force, which is applied to the structure at the top and bottom of the transfer wall. These additional lateral forces are transferred to the shear walls through the floor slabs.


October 12th, 2005, 10:12 PM
More blandeur by Trump...

Childs' design is just vacant-minded mimicry of various New York landmarks (is that a mini-Chrysler I see?).

October 12th, 2005, 11:22 PM
Child's design is pretty much what we have now ... but with PARTY HATS!