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November 14th, 2002, 03:18 PM
7 WTC renderings will be shown for the first time to the general public on Wednesday Novermber 20.

NYC kid
November 14th, 2002, 04:37 PM
Yes! FINALLY! Ive been waiteing for these for like...forever.

November 14th, 2002, 05:52 PM
what is the source that gave this information?
If this is true, which I hope it is...let's hope they're better than the last!

November 14th, 2002, 07:27 PM
source from the NYPost.

Rich Battista
November 14th, 2002, 10:17 PM
i am sorry to say but the New York Post is not the most reliable paper in the world, if it was for the Times, that i would trust

November 15th, 2002, 01:39 AM
The NY Post is a reactionary rag that would be better located somewhere in the South. That does not mean it's an unreliable real estate source though.

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 8:47 am on Mar. 8, 2003)

November 15th, 2002, 01:55 AM
If this is public, I'd like to go see the unveiling and the public's reaction. Until then, I'll keep wishing that the post wouldn't leave so much ink on my hands when I thumb through it....

November 15th, 2002, 10:14 AM
Who cares about the Post ?
Will the new building be an awful box or a nice one, that's the question.

November 15th, 2002, 10:29 AM
I would trust more that this is true if I'd heard it on NPR or read it in the Times.
In anycase even if the renderings aren't out by Nov. 20 they'll eventually be out.
They can take as long as they want, as far as I'm concerned as long as the new plans are magnificent!

Rich Battista
November 16th, 2002, 12:20 AM
i guess it depends on what you call a "nice box" and an "ugly box" *You have to be optimistic with them, they can be ugly, but sometimes you gotta bear with it.

November 16th, 2002, 06:48 AM
A nice box is not overwhelming and has a pretty skin. The exact opposite of 55 Water Street.

November 16th, 2002, 08:46 AM
I get this source from a NYPOST editior who was invited to the showing. It will be shown at 11am so it will probably be in the Thursday Paper.

November 17th, 2002, 08:11 PM
Yeah, the New York Post is usually somewhere along the lines of the National Enquirer and MTV News in terms of (real) news coverage, though it's still one of the best rags about construction in the city.

I can't wait to see these renderings, though I'm still not expecting anything grand...

(Edited by Daniel8ty8 at 8:12 pm on Nov. 17, 2002)

November 19th, 2002, 06:43 PM

Developer to release plans for first rebuilt trade center tower *

November 19, 2002, 4:46 PM EST

Marking an important step in the rebuilding of ground zero, developer Larry Silverstein was set to release plans on Wednesday for a new 7 World Trade Center, just north of where the twin towers stood.

The 52-story lower Manhattan office tower will incorporate "cutting-edge safety and environmental features," Silverstein's spokesman, Howard Rubenstein, said Tuesday.

The original 7 World Trade collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001, at 5:25 p.m. _ more than eight hours after the twin towers were attacked. The building, which housed a Con Edison power company substation, the mayor's Office of Emergency Management and other offices, had been evacuated, and no one died when it fell.

Silverstein was to release plans for the new building at a news conference Wednesday at the site of the future office tower.

The developer, who owned 7 World Trade and leased the twin 110-story towers from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, at first hoped to start rebuilding 7 World Trade as early as last summer but yielded to community pressure to step back and redesign the building.

The new building will be narrower than its 47-story predecessor so that Greenwich Street, formerly cut off by 7 World Trade Center, can be restored.

November 19th, 2002, 06:46 PM
Tomorrow's the day! *I am so excited!

November 19th, 2002, 08:10 PM
Hard to contain my excitement. I hope to get a summary of the building tommorow, second hand. It shoud be in the papers Thursday.

November 20th, 2002, 12:52 PM
http://www.ny1.com/ny/TopStories/SubTopic/index.html?topicintid=1&subtopicintid=1&contentint id=25986

No good photos yet...

November 20th, 2002, 01:13 PM
No good, but still worth posting.


November 20th, 2002, 01:56 PM
Newday has an article up - but no picture.


November 20th, 2002, 02:18 PM

You can find articles by using the google news search
\http://news.google.com/news?q=%227+world+trade%22&num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UT F-8&as_qdr=all&filter=0

November 20th, 2002, 02:43 PM
Finally a decen pic. Thanks

Another pic from Newsday...


This is a photo of a model of the new 7 World Trade Center, released in New York on Wednesday. The 52-story, 1.6-million-square-foot office tower, scheduled to open in late 2005, has been designed with enhanced safety provisions, including sturdier fire proofing than is required by the current building code, and wider stairs for rapid evacuation.

November 20th, 2002, 02:48 PM
Looks like a nicer box.. and are those corners slightly rounded or is it just me?

November 20th, 2002, 02:55 PM
One more from Newsday...


November 20th, 2002, 03:10 PM
Things are looking up for Downtown. *We now have planned towers of 750, 600, and a potential 1,050 ft. *And thats before the planned redevelopment of the WTC has been revealed.

Wonder if Grasso is having second thoughts about running away from the 900 ft NYSE tower...

November 20th, 2002, 03:20 PM
Some more photos...


All Images from us.news2.yimg.com

Not too bad, sorta like a mini NYTimes without the spire or the great skin...but

November 20th, 2002, 03:23 PM
I like the view in that second pic...

More details from the press conference...

The 52-story lower Manhattan office tower will be 750 feet tall and cast a smaller footprint in order to offer great views of the surrounding area, said architect David Childs of Skidmore Owings and Merrill.

It will also be narrower than its 47-story predecessor so Greenwich Street can be restored as a through street.

Childs noted that a special skin created for the building will allow it to act as a piece of art.

“You see the changing clouds and the color of the sky actually penetrating into the skin, something that’s never been done before that we think will be a dramatic statement about this building being open and strong,” said Childs.

Gov. George Pataki hailed the plans as another step in New York’s recovery from the terrorist attacks.

“We’re not just going to recreate what existed on Sept. 11, 2001, we’re going to move beyond,” he said. “... This building, 7 World Trade Center is an important symbol but more than that, it is a concrete step” toward rebuilding the area, he said.

November 20th, 2002, 03:36 PM
750 ft is a good height for the location. Taller than WFC and 1 Liberty but not too tall to overshadow whatever will be built at the WTC site itself.

It does look a bit like a skewed version of CIBC but will hopefully have a better "skin". In this case though I think a bit boring (like CIBC) is good. Maybe just a white and/or lighted band around the top is enough ornamentation.

BTW, what is the 600 footer planned for downtown?

November 20th, 2002, 04:25 PM
WOW, this is on the same level as NYTIMES. Infact much better...

NYC kid
November 20th, 2002, 04:29 PM
I absolutely love this. :) That design is so...cool!!! Much nicer than the original.

TLOZ Link5
November 20th, 2002, 04:37 PM
The 600-footer proposed for Downtown is 270 Greenwich Street, a bit north of the site of 7 WTC. *It's the one that TriBeCa NIMBYs have been so adamant against being constructed.

Oooh, the new 7 WTC is very nice. *Me like a lot!

November 20th, 2002, 04:57 PM
Ah, of course. I know exactly which one you mean. Thanks TLOZ. :)

November 20th, 2002, 05:24 PM
I have to say that I prefer the old 7 WTC except for one thing. That rendering right above Silverstein's head, the one looking down Greenwich, holds promise. Perhaps Barclay-Vesey, 101 Barclay and the new 7 WTC will form a nice little cluster.

November 20th, 2002, 06:33 PM

Architect David Childs explains his design for a tower at the site of 7 World Trade Center.


Crews prepare the 7 World Trade Center site for new construction.


Gov. George Pataki, center, talks to Mayor Michael Bloomberg, second from right, and real estate developer Larry Silverstein, right, as construction workers look on at the construction site of the new 7 World Trade Center.

November 20th, 2002, 06:50 PM
I do wish that it was not quite as boxy. *Although it is an improvement that it's more slender and taller than the original.
Also, I hope that they don't start fiddling with the skin. *It could come out very cool when looked at from a distance.

Just Rich
November 20th, 2002, 09:54 PM
Shots of it in the skyline



November 20th, 2002, 10:37 PM
Gah, attack of the SOM Boxes. Those shots Just Rich has skillfully put together has got me even more worried. Couldn't we have a little bit of creativity? Nothing excessive. I'm plenty happy with Child's Bear Sterns, or SOM's Citibank in LIC. Even the adjacent 101 Barclay.

SOM seems bent on getting to the Hudson river with a row of boxes... 1CMP, Marine Midland (near box), 1LP, 7 WTC (skewed box). They just have the block gap between 1LP and 7 WTC, which might be filled with Child's work, and 2 of Pelli's WFC buildings before the little box they built (Mercantile Exchange, box with curved glass curtain wall along the Hudson and windows that don't quite match the WFC *grr*).

Hopefully KPF will have a chance to lord over the SOM boxes.

November 20th, 2002, 11:40 PM
Thanks for all the pics everyone! :)

November 21st, 2002, 12:08 AM
Great job with the renderings Rich.

November 21st, 2002, 02:00 AM
Where to start....well, this is big news, and an improvement over what was at 7 WTC. I wish we could have had this buiding planned for another site under better circumstances, but it's time to move on and this is a great start!

Unfortunately, I agree with tugrul 100%. Aren't boxes, of any type a thing of the 60's? It bothers me that this is greatest city in the world and the LVMH and Austrian Cultural towers get more attention and thought than high-profile sites like this.

I don't think it's any secret that this is pretty important, what goes here and that quite a few people around the world are waiting to see what gets put back here. We need excellence. I'm not saying this is bad, but we've had such a rebirth in the last 10 years with postmodernism losing it's tackiness (Bear Stearns) and the deconstrucitivst movement taking root (Conde Nast/Reuters). David Childs has had his turns and his chances to add to our fabric. Seeing this design makes me wonder how much better we could do....God help us in getting Fox and Fowle or Sir Norman Foster to redesign the WTC and get us out of the design abyss. The world is watching.....

November 21st, 2002, 02:02 AM
Agreed very nice renderings, very impressive Just Rich...7WTC bridges the gap nicely between the WFC and the rest of downtown, at least as well as we can hope with the WTC being gone :(.

November 21st, 2002, 07:03 AM
This is just going to be a thinner CIBC tower in my opinion.

As is the case most of the time, the building never looks as good in reality compared to the renderings.

November 21st, 2002, 10:15 AM
Quote: from tugrul on 10:37 pm on Nov. 20, 2002
Gah, attack of the SOM Boxes. Those shots Just Rich has skillfully put together has got me even more worried.

I wouldn't worry. *I think the tower is exactly as it should be. *Don't forget, the WTC will consists of multiple towers. *Should every building have a spire or crown of some kind? *That would be overdoing the World Financial Center bit...

November 21st, 2002, 11:10 AM
It looks like a very nice building, but I have to agree with tugrul and JerzDevl. It doesn't have to have a spire or crown, but does every building have to have shear sides and a flat top?

November 21st, 2002, 11:56 AM
It would have been appropriate if the design had been, in some way, related to the WFC.
But it's not.
It reminds me of 1 Liberty Plaza, but with a lighter skin.

Anyway. It could be nice.

November 21st, 2002, 12:08 PM
It reminded me of 1 Liberty too.

November 21st, 2002, 12:16 PM
its a little disappointing that this building really has no flair a child could have designed it.....a molded box like the goldman sachs would have been nice.

November 21st, 2002, 12:41 PM
Fabb and NYatKnight, I'd have to agree with what ya said regarding the 1 Liberty Plaza reference. The new 7 WTC looks just like it, with the lighter facade. Hopefully, it will NOT turn out anything like it because 1 LP and 55 Water were the two boxes that I feel most destroy the romance and balance of the skyline downtown.

I ask everyone to think of your favorite skyscraper in the city that ya like to see lit up at ngiht. Chances are, it has a nice crown - Chrysler, Empire, 1 WWP, AIG/Cities service, Citicorp, etc. . Lower Manhattan had 40 Wall, AIG, 1 Wall, 20 exchange, 120 Wall, and a bunch of others clustered together for years and most people loved it. Heck, even Singer Tower was nice but I don't wanna get into what's there now. :)

Moving back, CIBC is a big letdown, or so I thought until I saw these plans yesterday. I'm sure David Childs went to a first rate architectural school, interned and apprenticed at the best firms possible, and has a lot under his belt. Was this the best he could do???

November 21st, 2002, 03:06 PM
Again I really like it. The WTC's were far from puny, it shouldnt be comrpromised with postmodern tack. I would be okay with a crown of sorts onsite, if its for a signature building. But 7WTC need not be a freak.

November 21st, 2002, 03:47 PM
What's important is that it succeeds economically. That's what it's built for.
If it fails, the rebuilding process could be delayed by a couple of decades.

November 21st, 2002, 04:17 PM
oh my gosh people. *we dont want lower manhattens tallest building to be a bloody appartment building. ! ! ! ! ! * what has this world come to ? ? ?
if that building is really going up, then i pray to GOD, that the new WTC's 1 & 2 will stand taller. good lord....................... *: (

TLOZ Link5
November 21st, 2002, 04:46 PM
One New York Place is a mixed-use building, and a slim majority of its space is used for office space. *Remember that John Hancock Center was once the tallest building in Chicago.

Just Rich
November 21st, 2002, 06:23 PM
I think you're going to see a lot more tall residential buildings than office buildings in the near future in a lot of cities, what with the vacancy rates and all.

November 21st, 2002, 08:01 PM
Quote: from Fabb on 3:47 pm on Nov. 21, 2002
What's important is that it succeeds economically. That's what it's built for.
If it fails, the rebuilding process could be delayed by a couple of decades.

The PA itself is supposed to be the major tenant for this building, but a deal hasn't been worked out with Silverstein.

Now, with the spirit of rebuilding in effect, a look at the WTC site from nycfoto.com....







Rich Battista
November 22nd, 2002, 08:02 PM
the building looks like it will come alive very well in the skyline, too bad only 1 tower will be built on the WTC site, there should be more to fill up the gaps.

November 24th, 2002, 03:10 AM
What makes you so certain that only 1 tower will be built on the WTC site?

Pelli once said that most cities need more background buildings and fewer signatures. I don't know if I completely agree with that, but I think Pelli would, in a complimentary way, consider this a good background building.

It will likely be another plain glass box with good materials and quality construction. Not Architecture (with a capital "A"), but certainly good real estate. The redevelopment of WTC should be Architecture. If it merely becomes real estate that will be tragedy.

November 24th, 2002, 03:36 AM
Pelli once said that most cities need more background buildings and fewer signatures.

I have to disagree with Pelli's take on that.

(Edited by amigo32 at 3:43 am on Nov. 24, 2002)

(Edited by amigo32 at 3:47 am on Nov. 24, 2002)

November 24th, 2002, 04:37 AM
chris, will New York REALLY try to fill in the skyline? Everything I read seems to indicate no. *It seems that the NIMBYS and the advocates for a large memorial will prevent that from happening. *I hope not!!

November 24th, 2002, 10:19 AM
Quote: from amigo32 on 4:37 am on Nov. 24, 2002
chris, will New York REALLY try to fill in the skyline? Everything I read seems to indicate no. *It seems that the NIMBYS and the advocates for a large memorial will prevent that from happening. *I hope not!!

That's why it is up to all the New York who supports skyscrapers and tall building to voice their opinions and overwhelm the NIMBY's. *There are certainly more advocates of tall builidings, than pure memorials at the WTC.

James Kovata
November 24th, 2002, 12:17 PM
I don't understand the obsession with boxes. *Shouldn't 7WTC represent a prelude to the monumental and creative architecture that (I hope) will be the new World Trade Center? *It seems nondescript.

November 25th, 2002, 05:49 PM
I tthink this bldg is not a masterpiece like Piano's tower or LVMH, or Austrian Cultural Institute or American Folk Museum but is after all not bad. Ok, we need first class projects in NYC expecially in this part of the city, but I think this is a good point to start. This bldg is elegant and most of all has a sort of 'lightness' very appropriate for the plot. The sense of light and brightness will be a good sign for all downtown people who probably will look at it like a symbol of fresh air.

November 25th, 2002, 06:50 PM
Quote: from maxinmilano on 5:49 pm on Nov. 25, 2002
I tthink this bldg is not a masterpiece like Piano's tower ....but is after all not bad. Ok, we need first class projects in NYC expecially in this part of the city,

It may not be a masterpiece, but more importantly, its a new tower to replace what was destroyed. *I disagree that the new towers have to be pieces of great architecture, but Im not a lover of architecture. *Just tall buildings. *New York City style!

BTW, did anybody see the full-page renderings for the new tower in the papers today? It had a simple headline, "7WTC. *The rebuilding begins..". *I almost got chills looking at it...

(Edited by NYguy at 6:51 pm on Nov. 25, 2002)

TLOZ Link5
November 25th, 2002, 07:04 PM
I've seen the renderings. *They're in both the Post and the Daily News, from what I know so far. *Haven't checked any other papers yet.

November 27th, 2002, 04:53 PM
Quote: from Shak on 8:35 pm on Nov. 25, 2002

And I have a question. If the skin sort of reflects the sky, would it reflect the sun alot. So it'd be hard to look at it sometimes?

It depends.
Will it be reflective glass like the Goldman Sachs building in JC or more transparent glass ?

Rich Battista
November 28th, 2002, 12:58 PM
i do not have a problem with the tower too much, just as long as it looks creative and "ORIGINAL" i do not mind if it is a box. But if it is a dreary old box again i will have to hurt someone.

TLOZ Link5
November 28th, 2002, 03:50 PM
From the renderings, it looks pretty light and airy. *Large, clear glass windows, with some nice aesthetic touches...I'm very impressed by this project, I have to tell you.

December 2nd, 2002, 10:40 AM
I'm not overly impressed yet, so far we've only seen some very unrealistic renderings. It does look light and airy, but all the buildings are white and 7 WTC is transparent.

December 5th, 2002, 04:47 AM
That's a good thing.
Transparent buildings are strangely rare in NY.

December 5th, 2002, 09:40 AM
It would be good, I agree, but you know how misleading renderings can be.

January 16th, 2003, 01:13 PM
The new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) will rise to the west of Greenwich Street and to the south of 101 Barclay Street building (http://www.wirednewyork.com/101_barclay.htm). 10 August 2002.


January 16th, 2003, 01:15 PM
New York Times

January 16, 2003
Even as Construction Begins, a New Trade Center Tower Faces Obstacles

Construction workers are laboring busily these days beneath the arc of a crane and the pipes pouring concrete at Vesey and Washington Streets, where the developer Larry A. Silverstein wants to rebuild 7 World Trade Center, one of the skyscrapers destroyed in the terrorist attack 16 months ago.

But it is by no means certain that Mr. Silverstein's planned 52-story skyscraper will rise on the site of the old tower anytime soon.

Mr. Silverstein, a persistently optimistic man, must still contend with a sluggish real estate market, the lack of a tenant to occupy the building, and the uncertainties of talks with his lenders, his insurer and the landowner, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. Any one could delay, or in the worst case scuttle, the $700 million building.

State and city officials are promoting the project because of its symbolic value in demonstrating progress in rebuilding Lower Manhattan, while the debate over the nearby 16-acre site of the twin towers drags on. On Tuesday, the city's Industrial Development Agency approved up to $400 million in tax-exempt Liberty Bonds to rebuild 7 World Trade Center.

"Larry Silverstein is going to build this 1.7-million square-foot tower with no tenants," said Andrew M. Alper, president of the city's Economic Development Corporation. "That's a pretty bold thing to do."

"I have no doubt he'll get commercial tenants over time," he added.

That remains to be seen. In the past decade, no developer has built a major office tower in Manhattan without a tenant for about half the building, typically a requirement of lenders. Mr. Alper acknowledged that vacant office space abounds in New York.

"Larry's under the mistaken notion that he can do this without an anchor tenant," said one real estate executive. "Why would the banks allow that?"

But Mr. Silverstein and city officials contend that unless construction starts now, the building will not be finished when the market improves, perhaps in a couple of years. Insurance money, they say, enables him to start quickly and reduces the risk to any lender.

The developer has told city officials that Merrill Lynch has expressed interest in underwriting the Liberty Bonds, while the Bank of New York and HSBC are interested in guaranteeing the bonds.

"This will be the first building to be rebuilt at the trade center and thus is symbolic of the importance that all New Yorkers attach to redeveloping the area and creating a vital economic engine for Lower Manhattan," Mr. Silverstein said on Tuesday.

At 7 World Trade Center, where Con Edison is building an electric substation to replace the one in the old building, Mr. Silverstein's crews are laying the foundation for a new building. But Mr. Silverstein must work out a number of issues.

According to the financial plan Mr. Silverstein filed with the city, he had an $861 million insurance policy; the insurer was Industrial Risk Insurers, a unit of General Electric's Employers Reinsurance division. He has already spent about $65 million on mortgage payments, development fees and other items related to the project. He plans to pay off the existing mortgage, totaling about $489.4 million. That leaves $306.6 million in insurance money, together with up to $400 million in Liberty Bonds, for construction of the tower.

But Mr. Silverstein has been squabbling with the mortgage holders on the old tower, the Blackstone Group and Banc of America Securities, over what he owes them and what they say was his unilateral decision to build a tower that is smaller than the original building. The sticking point is a provision in the loan agreements that provides the creditors with a 40 percent stake in the equity, and the two sides have been as much as $90 million apart in their estimates. According to people involved in the talks, Mr. Silverstein has contended that there is no equity since there is no longer a building.

The two sides met on Tuesday, according to an executive who was briefed on the negotiations, and outlined a potential deal that would pay the lenders at least $489.4 million, if not more, depending on when the loan is repaid. Mr. Silverstein is paying an interest rate of 10 percent, but city officials say that he should be able to borrow money for the new building at 3 percent interest.

"We are optimistic about reaching an agreement for Larry to pay us off in accordance with our agreements," John Z. Kukral, chief executive of Blackstone Real Estate Advisers, said yesterday.

Another possible sticking point is a clause in Mr. Silverstein's insurance policy that requires him to rebuild within two years. He says he has fulfilled that term by signing contracts for at least some of the work on a new tower, although the insurance company may take a different view, according to a person working on the project for Mr. Silverstein. Mr. Silverstein does not expect to complete the tower until late 2005 or early 2006.

Mr. Silverstein is also negotiating a new ground lease with the Port Authority, which was a big tenant in the old building. The current lease guarantees the Port Authority a minimum rent, payments in lieu of taxes and 40 percent of the property's net income. Mr. Silverstein wants to get rid of the 40 percent clause, said executives who have been briefed on the talks, but the Port is unlikely to give in.

The Port Authority, which had a relatively large and inexpensive lease at the trade center, has expressed an interest in returning to Lower Manhattan under the terms of its old deal. But Mr. Silverstein has demanded a higher rent.

"There are a lot of people feeding at this trough," said one real estate executive. "It's a lot for Larry to handle all at once."

Several real estate executives said they expected the tower to be built, if only for political reasons. "They need to show some sort of progress downtown," an executive said, "and that's the easiest place to do it."

January 17th, 2003, 11:06 AM
Mr. Silverstein does not expect to complete the tower until late 2005 or early 2006.

That's a little surprising, three years? I thought their pace was somewhat more urgent than that due to the "symbolic importance that all New Yorkers attach to redeveloping the area". Since that is not the case and there are no tenants they still can wait a little for a WTC overall plan and modify their design to be more incorporated with it. Get the transfer station running, by then the WTC plan will be much closer, then build that tower at a fast pace - two years. It can still be finished by early 2006.

Still seems crazy that this new tower will not be part of the overall plan. Though the current design is nice, just a little tweak to compliment its neighbors might make it a first class tower that the site deserves.

January 17th, 2003, 02:31 PM
I thought Con Edison needed the tower right away.

January 17th, 2003, 02:40 PM
Con Ed just needs the lower floors, to rebuild the substations.

January 18th, 2003, 10:47 AM

AMD Rendering

January 18th, 2003, 11:07 AM
Oh boy, what a winner.

January 18th, 2003, 11:09 AM
The "shaft of light" is insensibly becoming duller and duller.

January 18th, 2003, 01:02 PM
Do they honestly expect us to get excited about that?

January 18th, 2003, 01:16 PM
Better than the original.
Nothing much else.

January 18th, 2003, 01:42 PM
The original was a hulking 80's postmodern slab - I expect ANYTHING to be better than that. This barely fits that bill, but I guess it's better than nothing.

TLOZ Link5
January 18th, 2003, 01:49 PM
A nice glass box. *Nothing more, really. *The height is good, though, as well as the implications it carries for Downtown's future. *The last major skyscraper to be built in the Financial District, aside from the WFC, was the Millennium Hilton on Church Street, in 1992; and that was a hotel.

...Speaking of which, does anyone know if the Hilton has been reoccupied recently? *It was damaged pretty substantially on 9/11; the media kept saying that it and One Liberty Plaza were going to collapse.

January 18th, 2003, 01:57 PM
I thought the last major skyscraper to be built in the financial district, aside from the WFC, was 60 Wall St...I know that 17 State St was built in the late 80's too.

January 18th, 2003, 03:18 PM
I think the building looks great. *You have to understand that Silverstein has to construct a building with a simple design in order to maximize square footage and minimize construction costs. *Besides, there aren't many glass skinned building in downtown, so 7 WTC will stand out.

January 18th, 2003, 03:49 PM
A taller version of CIBC. Hopefully at least the crown will be a bit interesting.

Maybe SOM should have built one of thier french fries there. ;)

TLOZ Link5
January 18th, 2003, 04:08 PM
Quote: from JerzDevl2000 on 1:57 pm on Jan. 18, 2003
I thought the last major skyscraper to be built in the financial district, aside from the WFC, was 60 Wall St...

That was built in 1989. *The WFC buildings were built in 1986, but some people consider them part of Battery Park City as opposed to the Financial District.

January 18th, 2003, 05:04 PM
Maybe the crown of the Verizon will reflect in it.
Might be nice.

TLOZ Link5
January 18th, 2003, 05:35 PM
Maybe when they finish restoration work on the Verizon Building, they'll floodlight the crown.

January 19th, 2003, 01:30 AM
I think its perfect for the site, and a lot better than the original. *What were people expecting? *Its just a skyscraper. *Too many architecture critics in New York.

January 19th, 2003, 02:07 AM
Some cities would kill for a building of this height, size, and design.

January 19th, 2003, 04:57 AM
In NY you expect more than the commonplace. Especially from a building that will be the first to replace the destruction of 9/11.

January 19th, 2003, 05:07 AM
I am not in NY, and "commonplace", that sounds arrogant?!!! *It *IS a good start, in my opinion.

January 19th, 2003, 05:19 AM
Christian is right.
People have high expectations about the reconstruction. This one is part of the reconstruction. And I'm getting the feeling we won't see much more before long.

January 19th, 2003, 05:28 AM
We may not, and they love to squabble and downgrade, but take it for what it is, for goodness sake! *A start is a start! * That WILL build momentum! * It will make the juices flow! *How sure are you that you know what is best?

(Edited by amigo32 at 5:47 am on Jan. 19, 2003)

January 19th, 2003, 05:48 AM
It won't make my juices flow. Bad humor, I know.

I think people will be disappointed to see another dull box rise as part of the new WTC complex.

January 19th, 2003, 05:52 AM
Something, has to start dosen't it?

January 19th, 2003, 05:58 AM
Well, yes. But it doesn't have to be anything. I'm not saying this is disastrous either. What would be disastrous is the selection Peterson/Littenberg.

January 19th, 2003, 06:11 AM
7 WTC is a good start. *P/L kind of sucks. * Almost every design kind of sucks! *One good cornerstone is this project, this project really matters!

(Edited by amigo32 at 6:25 am on Jan. 19, 2003)

January 19th, 2003, 07:00 AM
There's still the possibility that this project stalls.
In that case there would be a redesign.
I don't know why the general scheme of the reconstruction excludes the site of 7WTC.

January 19th, 2003, 10:53 AM
Quote: from Fabb on 7:00 am on Jan. 19, 2003
There's still the possibility that this project stalls.
In that case there would be a redesign.
I don't know why the general scheme of the reconstruction excludes the site of 7WTC.

Because the reconstruction of the WTC could take many years. *Why should Silverstein have to stall 7 WTC, just because the plans for the WTC have been stalled. *If everything goes according to plan, this building will be completed by 2006. *I think Silverstein's "time table" for the WTC is like 2008. *Those 2 years, would be 2 years Silverstein doesn't make money on his building.

January 19th, 2003, 11:12 AM
To me, the building is a little better than average and is thus perfectly fine for the location. At 750 ft. it continues the downtown table top though.

What I find scary is that no matter which of the other design proposals are chosen as the site plan, there is absolutely not guarantee that the towers will be built as shown in the architect's proposal. The PA/LMDC/Silverstein all keep saying that buildings will be built as needed to the size of what the market wants. This building could indeed be the template of what will eventually get built whether the Libeskind, Foster, or P/L site plan is chosen.

January 19th, 2003, 12:53 PM
Quote: from JMGarcia on 11:12 am on Jan. 19, 2003

The PA/LMDC/Silverstein all keep saying that buildings will be built as needed to the size of what the market wants.

The needs of the market change constantly. It can turn from bust to boom in as little as 2 years or less.
The construction of a big building takes several years, possibly a decade in the case of a super-tall skyscraper.

So, the PA or Silverstein or LMDC will always assess the market conditions inacurately.

I favor the leap of faith.

January 19th, 2003, 01:50 PM
Perhaps they got a variance on "design excellence."

January 21st, 2003, 12:55 PM
Quote: from Fabb on 7:00 am on Jan. 19, 2003
There's still the possibility that this project stalls.
In that case there would be a redesign.
I don't know why the general scheme of the reconstruction excludes the site of 7WTC.
Because the lease on 7WTC was done on different terms than the rest of the complex, Silverstein has absolute say over what goes up there. *Therefore, 7WTC will be built sooner, but not according to a consensus.

January 21st, 2003, 01:13 PM
I think Silverstein built the original 7 WTC.

January 21st, 2003, 04:53 PM
Yes, he did

January 22nd, 2003, 06:06 PM
I am running a poll on 7 WTC.

84 % approve of the new plans

13 % disapprove

2% are undecided

January 22nd, 2003, 06:28 PM
It's a building, and Silverstein has the ability to make it happen. I don't care what anyone says, I think Silverstein could really be the blessing for this whole project. He will give it the momentum to do something, get something done.

I'd really like to see an open design competition for the space, but realistically, I'd be happy if there was an open competition for the memorial and the site plan, and then just let Silverstein do what he wants with the commercial space.

I'm aware this is not going to be a popular opinion here... it might not have even been popular with me if I'd read it posted by someone else, but that's how I feel right now. I'm so disappointed in the process and the outcome thus far.

(Edited by chris at 6:31 pm on Jan. 22, 2003)

January 22nd, 2003, 06:30 PM
Silverstein is left with the $700 million tab here, it is not simple economics. It is a symbol of recovery.

January 22nd, 2003, 06:32 PM
I'm not sure if you were replying to me (Stern) or something else. I was editing my post while you were making yours.

TLOZ Link5
January 22nd, 2003, 07:39 PM
Silverstein covered a lot of the money with his insurance from the Trade Center, and much of the rest the rest was covered by Liberty Bonds.

January 22nd, 2003, 11:59 PM
It might not be a popular opinion, chris, but it kinda makes sense.

January 25th, 2003, 03:36 PM
The new 7 World Trade Center looks cool, but it should be shaped like a trapezoid like the now destroyed 7 World Trade Center.

January 25th, 2003, 04:52 PM
Well it is a parallelogram

TLOZ Link5
January 25th, 2003, 05:47 PM
I prefer the parallellogram shape anyway.

...what was there before the original 7WTC? *Was it some sort of lowrise building affiliated with the Trade Center, or just an empty lot?

January 25th, 2003, 06:42 PM
When the WTC was built, Greenwich St was blocked, and the trapezoidal site housed Con Ed substations. On the northeast corner, there was an entrance ramp to the basement levels.
7WTC was later built over the substations (late80s).

The substations will be rebuilt under the new building.

Construction photos here:


January 27th, 2003, 09:46 AM
Great construction shots. I like this one:


World Trade Center Senior Resident Engineer, Henry Druding, with objects dug from site,4/5/68
A. Belva
Gift of the Port of New York Authority

March 3rd, 2003, 12:06 AM
The view of Ground Zero from Liberty Street, with the construction of 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm). 2 March 2003.


March 3rd, 2003, 11:12 AM
Construction at 7 World Trade - Mar. 2, 03
The damaged Barclay Vesey Building at left.



March 7th, 2003, 05:20 PM

7 WTC was designed first, but was to work with whatever is to follow.

Construction is well underway. Steel should be rising in April I hope.

March 7th, 2003, 05:21 PM
-In response to a question that was asked here.

I have a question. Is WTC 7 considered part of the Libeskind plan? In other words, will the new WTC be the Libeskind plan + WTC 7, or will it be the Libeskind plan(which already has WTC7 in it)?

March 7th, 2003, 05:45 PM
I hope that the final design for the Libeskind towers will be based on the new 7 WTC, only not boxy, and hopefully, the spire will be a reall tower.

March 8th, 2003, 08:56 AM
What's left of it without its boxiness?





March 8th, 2003, 09:22 AM
Zippy is getting upset.

March 8th, 2003, 02:25 PM
After Libeskind, Piano, Rossi, Portzamparc, Meier projects like this are simply 'old'.

March 8th, 2003, 09:22 PM
you know there's something to be said for blending in

TLOZ Link5
March 9th, 2003, 11:18 AM
Is there any agreement on what to do with the triangular plot to the east of the new 7 WTC, which was created when Greenwich Street was planned to cut through the original site?

March 9th, 2003, 11:20 AM
It's a park/plaza in every one of the 15 official proposals we've seen so far. *As for what's going to be in it, I don't know. *I have to double check, but I think libeskind put an entrance to the underground concourse on it. *

(Edited by dbhstockton at 11:21 am on Mar. 9, 2003)

March 9th, 2003, 11:25 AM
Here's the link showing the underground connection:


March 9th, 2003, 11:31 AM
At CB1 meeting on Wed, PA stated it would be a small park, and a possible location of one of the entry points into the concourse/transportation terminal - the others are Liberty Park in SE corner, and Washington/Liberty Sts.

March 30th, 2003, 08:54 PM
The new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) is rising to the south of 101 Barclay Street building (http://www.wirednewyork.com/101_barclay.htm). 30 March 2003.


March 30th, 2003, 09:18 PM
I was expecting it to hug Barclay Vessey. All around this is a good thing, as always there is not a bad thing about this particular building.

April 21st, 2003, 06:37 PM
A side by side look...


TLOZ Link5
April 21st, 2003, 09:12 PM
moreover top to bottom, NYguy ;)

April 21st, 2003, 09:17 PM
I had forgotten how far set back on Vesey St the original was.

April 24th, 2003, 03:59 PM
Barclay Street has reopened! I had seen vehicular traffic on Barclay for 2-2.5 weeks, but today I noticed I could walk down West Broadway to Barclay, and just stand right across the street from 7 WTC. I wish I was packing a camera.

7 WTC looks like its going to be the thinest building in the general area, aside from the Millenium Hotel. Its plot is tiny compared to its neighbors and its old self.

And so far, the construction seems to have reached the first floor on half the site, maybe where the substation will go. I think they were pouring the foundation on the other half.

April 24th, 2003, 05:32 PM
But the rendering doesn't make it look thin.
I'm curious to know how it'll interact visually with the freedom tower.

April 24th, 2003, 06:58 PM
It's a parallelogram. There are two widths.

April 24th, 2003, 07:08 PM
And from certain angles it can look very fat.

May 11th, 2003, 03:59 PM
The portion above ground facing north is in fact the substation, and a small one at that. The site is split, and foundations are still being laid to the south. It will be some time until the other half of the building rises, and more time for the connection to be made to steel above the station. For all the hype 7 WTC will not be rising all that soon.

May 18th, 2003, 04:57 PM
Construction photos May 18, 2003

south on Greenwich

Greenwich & Barclay

west on Barclay

Vesey & (in a few years) Greenwich


Original 7WTC had 2 substations. It appears they are pouring
foundation on Vesey for a structure similar to Barclay.
Substation(s) to rise to 115 ft.

May 18th, 2003, 05:10 PM
Maybe I'm crazy, but wasn't there already a 2 story concrete structure in place?

NyC MaNiAc
May 18th, 2003, 08:27 PM
Well if you are, I am too. Either way, I am very excited about this building...is there an estimation of when it will be completed?

TLOZ Link5
May 18th, 2003, 08:48 PM
The first substation was meant to be finished by this summer, to accomodate the AC needs of the Financial District. *But if the pace is going to be this slow the whole time, I'm somewhat doubtful that it'll be online in time.

The tower is supposed to be finished by 2007.

May 19th, 2003, 08:59 AM
Meanwhile, Silverstein still battles it out with his insurers!

June 10th, 2003, 01:13 PM
I cant belive how long its taking to get started! and the rest of the trade centre, apparentley is going to take ages. Its such a slap in the face!

July 8th, 2003, 10:40 PM
Construction progress of the new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) on 28 June 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/images/7wtc_greenwich_28june03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm)

Construction progress of the new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) on 28 June 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/images/7wtc_west_28june03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm)

Construction progress of the new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) on 28 June 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/images/7wtc_barclay_vesey_28june03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm)

July 8th, 2003, 11:28 PM
Hasn't moved at all.

NyC MaNiAc
July 9th, 2003, 01:32 AM
There's so much going down down there (In that "Ground Zero" area), that it's hard to tell.

July 12th, 2003, 09:47 AM
July 13, 2003

Building Being Reborn Using Part of Old Foundation


The foundation work at 7 World Trade Center.

While discussions continue on how to redevelop the Twin Towers site of the former World Trade Center, construction already is under way to rebuild the adjacent 7 World Trade Center, a building that collapsed in fires touched off by the Sept. 11 attack. Supported in part by elements of the foundation of the destroyed structure, it is the first building at Ground Zero to be rebuilt.

But it will not be the same building. Changing tastes in urban design that favor a normal street grid over streetless superblocks have led to plans to reopen Greenwich Street, which was blocked by the original structure. So the footprint has moved to the west and somewhat to the south of the previous location.

In the new design, the main entrance to the building will face east on the newly reopened Greenwich Street. Where a vehicular ramp that formerly led into the main Trade Center complex and a corner of the previous building once stood, a 15,000-square-foot triangular park is to face the entrance from across Greenwich Street.

At 52 stories, the new building will be five stories taller than its predecessor and more slender, because the building site has been reduced. The $700 million project — paid for largely with insurance settlements — will have 1.7 million square feet of space, compared with 2 million square feet in the old building. Like the old 7 World Trade Center, the commercial office building will sit on top of a Con Ed electrical substation, which will take up the equivalent of the first 10 floors of the structure. And it will sit, at least partially, on foundation elements that are in their second or third use, having supported the substation, the previous building or both.

Although the intense heat of fire weakened the building and caused the collapse, the effect did not extend very far underground. Once the rubble was cleared away, engineers checked the old footings of the substation and building and found them to be in good condition.

"Our conclusion was that the building came down so slowly that it did not destroy what was in the base," said George Tamaro, a senior partner in Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers, a consultant about the underpinning of the project.

But because of the changed footprint, new foundation elements were needed, with the new carefully blended with the old to support the building and enable it to resist the effects of wind and earth movements. Using the old foundations was an important part of the project, said Jack Klein, a vice president of Silverstein Development, a division of Silverstein Properties, the developer.

"It's a necessity really," he said. "As a practical matter, you can't pull them out."

The work was complicated by the fact the new building will have a basement, unlike the old one, which was built on a slab. The land is owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The foundations, known as caissons, are used to support tall buildings by anchoring them to solid rock. To form them, a hollow steel tube is drilled down through loose upper soil until it hits a layer of rock capable of supporting the structure.

Then a hole is drilled into the rock as much as 25 feet deeper and a steel beam is inserted through the tube and into the rock to pin the caisson in place. Then the tube is filled with concrete and capped to support the major columns of the building.

Some caissons are driven in at an angle — battered, in architectural terms — to help resist the tipping effect of winds on the building and to control movement in an earthquake. The effect of winds in the narrow corridors of Lower Manhattan is sufficiently complicated that designers built a model of the structure and tested it in a wind tunnel. "We need to hold the building up and hold it down," Mr. Klein said.

Ultimately, the engineers were able to use 55 existing caissons, some from the previous office building and some from the Con Ed substations. In addition, 92 new ones were added to provide adequate support.

A complicated series of transfer beams was needed to match the loads of the new building to caissons installed for previous structures, said Silvian Marcus, executive vice president of Cantor Seinuk Group, the structural engineer for both the original office building and the current project. "In some cases, the cost of the transfer beams and straps was so high that caissons had to be abandoned," he said.

The new building is outside the boundaries of the original island of Manhattan, whose Hudson River shoreline roughly followed Greenwich Street, Mr. Tamaro said.

Adding the new caissons meant drilling into an area already crowded with utility lines and subways. Indeed, the No. 1 and 9 subway line actually runs under to footprint of the old building; it will be adjacent to the new one. "The biggest risk in construction is what you find in the ground," Mr. Klein said.

In addition, the new building extends 22 feet south of the original structure and that much closer to the slurry wall that keeps the Hudson River out of the pit that remains where the Twin Towers stood, Mr. Tamaro said. Some of the new caissons interfered with the tiebacks supporting the slurry wall, which had to be moved.

Mr. Klein said that builders typically try to do a historical search on sites, but that documentation of old construction projects is often hard to find. In spite of the difficulties, all the caissons have been installed and the building is rising on top of them.

THE foundation for the project is particularly critical because the new 7 World Trade Center will be more substantial than the one it replaces, with a hardened structure intended to increase safety and resist collapse. In addition, the heavy transformer in the electrical substation adds to the load on the foundation.

The new building with have a core — the central structure containing the elevators, stairwells and risers for utilities — made of reinforced concrete the full height of the building, instead of the lighter steel framework covered with wallboard as had often been the practice in the past.

This core will have two stairwells separated by about 110 feet to minimize the likelihood that both would be blocked by the same incident. They will also be pressurized to keep smoke out in case of a fire. The features were added, presumably to assure prospective tenants about the building's safety, even though the older building was evacuated on Sept. 11 with no fatalities.

The fuel tanks for the emergency electrical generators will be underground and outside the structure's footprint, in contrast to fuel tanks in the old building on the fifth, seventh and eighth floors, which may have fed the fires that brought it down.

The reinforced core also has a structural value, engineers say, because it stiffens the building against swaying or twisting in the wind. The previous building required steel cross bracing on the upper floors to minimize movement.

The Con Ed substation will occupy the north and south sides of the building, with a 45-foot stone and glass lobby in between. The truck entrance will be on the west side, on Washington Street, and will be equipped with a loading dock and seven truck bays.

Because the substation floors have higher ceilings than a typical office building, the first office floor for tenants will start on the equivalent of the 10th floor.

Dealing with existing foundations will only become more complicated as sites are redeveloped in Manhattan, Mr. Tamaro said. "Many sites will be so crowded that it will be impossible to install a new foundation," he said. "The prudent thing will be to use the existing foundation with any new foundation that is necessary." *

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

July 12th, 2003, 02:01 PM
Very informative article. Now we know why it's taking so long to rise.

July 13th, 2003, 01:28 PM
Quote: from ZippyTheChimp on 2:01 pm on July 12, 2003
Very informative article. Now we know why it's taking so long to rise.

The article mentioned that a lot of work had to be done to the foundation, installing new caissons, and that the construction had to be done around utilities and the 1 and 9 subway lines. *Also, since Silverstein has no anchor tenants, he is probably in no rush to have the building completed.

July 13th, 2003, 01:49 PM
That kind of reinforced concrete core has been used in Asia and continental Europe since the very early skyscrapers. The Tour Montparnasse has one.

July 22nd, 2003, 10:59 PM


The new 7 World *Trade Center will not merely be the newest office tower in New York, it will be the metaphorical and symbolic representation of the spirit of redevelopment and renewal in Lower Manhattan. A slender glass pylon marking both the entrance to the World Trade Center, and the future of New York’s downtown, the Building is a smaller and more airy tower than its predecessor.



July 23rd, 2003, 09:09 AM
David M. Childs, FAIA of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill L.L.P., working with glass artist and designer James Carpenter, has used natural light and reflectivity to create a shimmering animated façade whose appearance will quietly transform with the changing patterns of sunlight and weather.
I'm still disappointed in the facade of AOL/TW

July 23rd, 2003, 11:02 AM
I'll ditto that Zippy. To not take advantage of the unique massing of AOL but instead to hide it behind a blandly consistent glass wall does not speak well of Childs.

Freedom Tower
July 28th, 2003, 09:21 PM
Are they still working on the foundations? Have they at least begun to raise steel? It sure is taking forever...

July 28th, 2003, 09:23 PM
Steel only starts at level ten I think. As of last week the full building footprint (vaults and core) were in place on the first floor.

August 19th, 2003, 10:00 AM
On the 6th picture down, is that the Trade centre being constructed in the pit, in front of the 7 wtc site?

August 19th, 2003, 12:12 PM
That's the "temporary" PATH station being built.

August 19th, 2003, 06:07 PM
This building is going to be nice. It's a nice replacment for the old one.

August 25th, 2003, 09:14 AM
Was out on Saturday and the site was busy as a hive. *Activity has significantly picked up now that the steel has arrived.

August 25th, 2003, 03:05 PM
That's good news.

Freedom Tower
August 25th, 2003, 11:17 PM
Good. Maybe the steel will start rising soon. They wouldn't have steel brought in just to let it sit there for a month right? So the steel probably will be starting sometime in Early or mid september. Does anyone have any information on this?

August 26th, 2003, 12:43 AM
I walked by the site on Sunday, and I didn't see any steel except rebar.

THe substations will rise to 135 ft. That would be 9-10 floors of Verizon. They appear to be about half way up.

I think that they will change cranes after the concrete is poured.

August 26th, 2003, 09:08 AM
One of the local news stations (ABC or NBC - I can't recall) did a piece on the arrival of the steel into the metro area. *It had interviews with the folks delivering it and the steel manufacturer and took the whole "rebuilding America / fighting back against those that would want to harm America angle. *The steel was not shown on site, but being delivered to a staging area in NJ. *That was the gist of it. Unless of course I actually had Fox news on, in which case whatever it was I heard can be assumed to be a big lie.

(Edited by BrooklynRider at 9:09 am on Aug. 26, 2003)

August 26th, 2003, 10:24 AM
I can't remember which building was the subject, but I remember a TV program that showed how steel gets from the foundry to a Manhattan construction site. A staging area is selected with a convenient route to the site. The sections are delivered overnight on the day they will be installed.

7WTC seems to be rising faster the last few weeks.

August 26th, 2003, 12:40 PM
There was a series on PBS that dealt with the construction of the Worldwide Plaza. *It had similar details....

August 26th, 2003, 02:42 PM
can someone please post a picture of the construction site and how its coming along. thanx

August 27th, 2003, 10:57 AM
New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com

WTC plans got trashed


Wednesday, August 27th, 2003

A Bronx bagel store owner made a stunning discovery in the trash outside his shop: blueprints for the electrical and mechanical systems of the first building set to rise at Ground Zero, the Daily News has learned.
Cops confiscated the 27 pages of documents detailing some of the innards of the planned replacement for 7 World Trade Center yesterday as the tower's developer and other officials expressed shock at the find.

"I would say the guy ... has no brain," the Riverdale bagel store owner, who didn't want his name used, said of the person who tossed the blueprints in the trash.

The merchant turned the documents over to City Councilman Oliver Koppell (D-Bronx), who contacted police. The NYPD launched an investigation.

"Assuming that there's nothing nefarious here, it's just irresponsible and grossly negligent to leave plans like this lying around," Koppell said yesterday. "Let's assume someone saw it who had some gripe, who's sympathetic to terrorists. ... Do we really want them to have it?"

The blueprints detailed the foundation plan for the new 7 WTC, as well as transformer vaults, column widths and the location of a "mechanical penthouse" on one of the building's highest floors, a News review of the documents showed.

The original 7 WTC, built on land owned by the Port Authority, was destroyed in the terror attack nearly two years ago.

In November, developer Larry Silverstein unveiled plans for the new tower, designed by architects at Skidmore, Owings and Merrill.

The original building housed a Con Edison electrical substation, which is being rebuilt in the new tower. Some of the plans are related to those power systems.

Silverstein spokesman Howard Rubenstein said, "Those plans are obsolete and incomplete and of no value to anyone." But he added that the developer "is launching an immediate investigation to find out how this may have happened."

PA spokesman Michael Petralia said his agency would help Silverstein investigate.

Con Ed spokesman Michael Clendenin said, "We have no way of commenting. We don't know what [the documents] are."

The tempest in a trash can started two weeks ago, when the deli owner arrived at his Riverdale Ave. store about 4:30 a.m. and saw the schematics lying on top of cardboard he had set out for recycling.

They were dated March 2003 and stamped "received" by Tishman Construction, which is overseeing the project. They also bore the names "Silverstein Properties" and "Skidmore, Owings and Merrill."

Handed over to pol

The owner picked them up, brought them into the store, wrapped them up with a rubber band — and forgot them for a week while he went on vacation. When he got back, the sight of them nagged at him.

So when Koppell came into his shop Sunday for a nosh, the owner turned the plans over to him.

Yesterday, Koppell contacted cops, who sent two counterterrorism detectives to pick them up. "This is actually an investigation now," said Detective Brian Martin of the criminal investigation section, counterterrorism unit. He added: "We get leads, but not like this."

Tishman officials didn't return calls, and architects working on the project weren't reachable.

Freedom Tower
August 27th, 2003, 12:09 PM
'Silverstein spokesman Howard Rubenstein said, "Those plans are obsolete and incomplete and of no value to anyone." But he added that the developer "is launching an immediate investigation to find out how this may have happened."' That is probably the biggest lie I have ever heard. They want to calm the public into thinking nothing important was released. Sort of like how they said the air at the WTC site was safe. Why would obselete plans actually make it to the construction site and be there during construction?

Freedom Tower
August 27th, 2003, 12:12 PM
Also, I wonder if it was a dropoff arranged to be picked up by some terrorist mastermind or something bad like that. Let's just hope nothing like that happens again.
BTW, Brooklyn Rider, I like Fox News ;)

August 27th, 2003, 08:24 PM
After all of the suspense they trash the plans. I guess the Post was right when they said it would never get built.

September 2nd, 2003, 07:19 AM


September 2, 2003

A STROLL along the narrow Vesey Street walkway between Church and West streets traverses two bustling construction sites: ground zero on the south side, where the Port Authority is racing to complete the new temporary PATH terminal, and Larry Silverstein's 7 World Trade Center site to the north.

And it's about to get a lot busier. Most of what's visible so far above ground at 7 WTC is a structure to house a new Con Ed transformer station. But by the middle of next month, Silverstein's spokesman confirms, the first steel beams are scheduled to arrive for the 52-story, David Childs-designed tower itself.

The raw steel - 70 tons' worth - landed near Baltimore recently, and is being fabricated at a facility in New Jersey.

So much for the off-base speculation that Silverstein would not build 7 WTC without tenants signed up. You do not return 70 tons of steel in a postage-paid envelope.

Freedom Tower
September 2nd, 2003, 03:01 PM
Well now I cant wait for mid october. Then we can start seeing some real progress :)

September 2nd, 2003, 05:04 PM
That's a key-phase of the rebirth. If all the tower is filled fast with tenants, the other part of the project could suddenly become more ambitious.

Freedom Tower
September 2nd, 2003, 07:33 PM
Fabb, on that note, do you have any idea on whether it will fill up fast? Are there any tenants seriously interested? I sure do hope it is bought up quick. Maybe then they'd beef up the spire on the FT?

(Edited by Freedom Tower at 7:33 pm on Sep. 2, 2003)

September 3rd, 2003, 03:31 AM
No. I have no idea.
As a matter of fact, the zeal, (or the reluctance) of Silverstein to find tenants fast, will be the sign of his determination to increase (or reduce) the size of the other buildings.
He'll use that as an argument later.

September 3rd, 2003, 08:25 AM
Silverstein will get his 10 million sq. ft. one way or another. If he is unable to rent it out quickly it may at worst delay the project. It'll be if he can't get people to rent the upper floors that could throw things into disarray. Silverstein will want a redesign to get his sq. footage but all under the 20th floor.

September 3rd, 2003, 09:11 AM
Nice, it could be like a little Sao Paulo in NYC. *We don't need TriBeCa or Chinatown anyway.

September 3rd, 2003, 10:52 AM
What if tenants demand offices with a view ?
Siverstein will be forced to offer them what they want.

September 3rd, 2003, 11:17 AM
What if tenants demand offices with a view ?
Siverstein will be forced to offer them what they want.

That would be fantastic!

September 9th, 2003, 11:03 PM
Construction progress of the new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm) on 6 September 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/images/7wtc_6sept03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm)

September 10th, 2003, 09:23 AM
Still nothing above ground ?
That's a little disappointing.

September 10th, 2003, 11:33 AM
7 WTC is the large cement structure above ground in the background. It looks about 5 stories so far. Considering that the sub-station is going to be 10 stories, I'd say they are halfway done with the substation.

September 10th, 2003, 02:21 PM
Wow! I didn't realize the sub-station was that rising that far above ground. :shock:

October 4th, 2003, 12:26 PM
Is that as far as they've got with 7 wtc? What the hell are they doing?

October 4th, 2003, 12:35 PM
This is very surprising indeed.
At some point, this building was supposed to be rebuilt in a matter of a couple of years.

October 4th, 2003, 12:46 PM
at this rate it'll be a few hundred years!!

October 5th, 2003, 09:41 PM
Sadly, I think we can expect this kind of timetable for the rest of the WTC. We'd better get used to it.

October 5th, 2003, 09:59 PM
I used to work in the old 7 WTC. The view, to the south, was awful; although, the view the north was second to none-it was fantastic (it was the last, unobstructed view in downtown). Especially, from the gym on the 47th floor...the areobics room was on the North side...we're talkin' 40-50 feet of floor to cealing windows. My friend used to bug me to take a picture...I always said I'd "get around to it."

Soly put in a floor, when I was there...the 41st floor was actually a double floor, when Citigroup bought Soly...the brought the steel in from the windows...that was wild.

One other interesting note...one of the building engeneers told me that the executive management at Soly had charcoal air filters installed, back in the late 80s...the the air was cleaner than a hospital's...

TLOZ Link5
October 5th, 2003, 10:32 PM
Really interesting stuff, JMC. Everyone knows about the Twin Towers, but very little has ever been said about 7 WTC.

October 6th, 2003, 09:38 AM
Silverstein and Tishman are in NO hurry, they dont have one inch of space rented out so why ruch. Sadly this will be a porblem that the rest of the site will encounter, nobody is interested in office space in Lower Manhattan anymore

TLOZ Link5
October 6th, 2003, 11:27 AM
No one is interested in flooding the market with office space in Lower Manhattan anymore. The new WTC will be constructed as is demanded by the industry. Right now there's no demand.

October 6th, 2003, 11:29 AM
Yes, but there are paying rent, etc. on the site, so I'm sure there is some desire to build.

October 28th, 2003, 11:08 PM
Any updates on WTC 7?

October 29th, 2003, 08:51 AM
Steel erection starts in three weeks

October 29th, 2003, 11:39 AM
I was down there, yesterday, and saw something (steel) sarting to rise over the north east corner...looked funky...didn't think much of it.

October 31st, 2003, 07:05 PM
Are they still projecting the completion by 2007? (I think thats when I heard it was)...

TLOZ Link5
November 1st, 2003, 01:37 AM
I think it is.

November 1st, 2003, 10:56 AM
Wow...so the 1776' or 2000' Freedom Tower will be finished a year ahead of this much smaller building which already has a huge head start?

November 1st, 2003, 12:13 PM
same reason Goldman Sachs (NJ) isn't ready for occupation...it's a way to manage your inventory against crummy demand in the market.

November 1st, 2003, 08:12 PM
Some images taken today (Nov 1) of construction at 7 WTC...





TLOZ Link5
November 1st, 2003, 10:45 PM
Is that a short Venetian arcade on the Barclay Street facade?

November 1st, 2003, 11:08 PM
If it is an arcade, that would be cool. By the way, when is that orange netting coming off the Barclay-Vesey building?

November 2nd, 2003, 12:18 AM
...there's that steel, rising, I was referring to. The white crane is a good sign. It's the kind that gets taller, as floors are assembled...I'd say we're good to go...

It's gonna be awesome to see 7 wtc, and the new apartments on Gold and John street, rise from the promanade.

November 2nd, 2003, 03:29 AM

November 3rd, 2003, 10:44 PM
Yahoo! I was At the site just a week ago and I'm happy to see the progresion.

Just Rich
November 3rd, 2003, 11:23 PM
Good to see Good to see!!

Thanks NY Guy!

November 4th, 2003, 03:23 AM
Cant wait to see this beaut take shape...Its my favorite of all the renderings done for the downtown buildings @ ground zero....

November 4th, 2003, 06:52 PM
Cant wait to see this beaut take shape...Its my favorite of all the renderings done for the downtown buildings @ ground zero....

You must certainly be refering to the World Trade Center....

November 4th, 2003, 09:16 PM
Cant wait to see this beaut take shape...Its my favorite of all the renderings done for the downtown buildings @ ground zero....

You must certainly be refering to the World Trade Center....

The new WTC 7...The other proposed buildings (including Freedom Tower) don't intrigue me as much as #7 does....I was disappointed with the plan they chose to build for ground zero but this building is the only one I find to be cool....Hopefully the others will turn out better than their renderings....

November 7th, 2003, 05:54 PM
Construction progress of the new 7 WTC (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm). 6 November 2003.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/images/7wtc_6nov03.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/wtc/7wtc/default.htm)

November 7th, 2003, 06:11 PM
That's f*cking fast.

November 7th, 2003, 09:58 PM
I'm hoping for the best now.

November 8th, 2003, 01:02 AM
that crane is nearly 20 stories up..yeah! Cranes rising over lower Manhattan!!

Mr. Mojo rising!

November 8th, 2003, 02:09 AM
I am now getting excited :lol:

November 8th, 2003, 08:01 PM
November 9, 2003

Three Transformers to Bring New Power to Ground Zero


The reconstruction of the World Trade Center site took a small but symbolically important step forward yesterday as Con Edison began to rebuild two power substations that were destroyed in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Three electrical transformers were lowered by crane into cavernous vaults beneath what will once again become 7 World Trade Center. The transformers, each nearly 85 tons and 20 feet tall, are the first of 10 transformers that will be placed beneath 7 World Trade Center in the next few years, said Michael Clendenin, a spokesman for Con Edison.

Transformers take electricity from high-voltage power lines and reduce its potency in order to route it safely to residential and commercial buildings, Mr. Clendenin said. The transformers are not expected to go into full use until next summer, he explained, as utility workers connect them to local power wires and cables.

Many residents and businesses in Lower Manhattan lost electrical power for more than a week after the terrorist attack as emergency workers sought to dig out the substations from the rubble of 7 World Trade Center. To bring power to the neighborhood, Con Edison laid nearly 36 miles of cables to connect the area to working substations, a process that Mr. Clendenin compared to using "one big extension cord."

At first, these cables were above ground, he said. Eventually, they were buried. The new transformers, which are the working heart of an electrical substation, will replace this jury-rigged system, Mr. Clendenin said.

Perhaps more important, he said, the transformers will supply the power needed for the vast reconstruction of ground zero. "As the buildings of the trade center start to rise," Mr. Clendenin said, "these substations will power that."

He said the rebuilt substations would also be able to provide electricity if demand for it grew in other parts of Lower Manhattan.

The transformers had been stored for some time inside a warehouse in Astoria, Queens. On Friday night, they were loaded onto barges and shipped down the East River around the southern tip of Manhattan to a West Side pier. There, the transformers were loaded onto tractor-trailers, each 100 feet long, and trucked to the construction site.

They were placed into the underground vaults by enormous cranes, Mr. Clendenin said. "You're talking about big, big units."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

November 9th, 2003, 06:07 PM
Construction at the 7 WTC site, taken today Nov. 9th. It may not seem like a lot now, but this is really significant
as the first of the 6 new WTC towers begins to rise. At about 750 ft, it will be the shortest of the new towers...





November 10th, 2003, 04:26 PM
It may be the shortest but it will still be significant on the skyline.

November 10th, 2003, 06:01 PM
As the shortest at 750 ft, it makes you realize just how many large towers are on the way Downtown...

NyC MaNiAc
November 11th, 2003, 10:24 AM
Yes, but if the WTC turns out to really be a "Complex" then alot of the buildings will look alike.

I think I'd rather see 4 different 900 Foot glass towers spread around downtown, then Tower 2,3,4,5, all looking the same on the Trade Center site.

Your Opinions?

November 11th, 2003, 11:47 AM
There is something moving about seeing more than one building with a theme. Visually its just more of an impact than a single building next to a building with a contrasting design. Especially in a city with more unique buildings than themed groups of buildings.

That said, I think the Libeskind theme is ugly and his guidelines arrogant. The Times had it right when they said it would make NYC look like Houston.

November 11th, 2003, 01:13 PM
I bet this building is going to finish, resembling one of the TWC towers..

November 11th, 2003, 01:38 PM
No offence guys but this topic is about 7 WTC.

November 23rd, 2003, 06:44 PM
Photos taken today, 11/23...




November 23rd, 2003, 07:20 PM
Those are really thin columns.

November 25th, 2003, 09:25 AM
Yeah but remember that it is going to have a concrete elavator core so really they are just for extra support for the floors. but youre right, they do look awfuly thin for the structure at the base of the building.

December 11th, 2003, 06:10 PM

First Steel Beam Goes Up at WTC

By Christian Murray
Cecember 11, 2003

The first steel beam that will support the weight of office space was erected Thursday at 7 World Trade Center. The occasion marked the first beam of its type to be raised since the 9/11 attacks.

"7 World Trade Center was the last building to go down, and it will be the first building to go up," said Gov. George Pataki, at a ceremony marking the occasion.

It collapsed seven hours after the Towers fell, after it erupted into flames after it was hit by ruble.

"Raising steel beams here at 7 World Trade Center is emblematic of yet another milestone on our aggressive timetable," Pataki said.

Larry Silverstein, the leaseholder of the site, said that the building's steel will be topped out by the end of 2004, with it being completed by the end of 2005.

Pataki, Silverstein and the building's architect David M. Childs signed the white beam, while throngs of workers in blue, hard hats called on these high-profile men to sign their construction hats. [A large crane dropped down and picked up the beam, despite the wind and rain.

Hanging below the beam, an American flag was draped, which was made by local craftsman in Afghanistan to mark Sept. 11.

The beam was erected for the 11th floor, where the first office tenants will rent space. The first ten floors will house transformers for a Consolidated Edison substation, which will supply electricity to much of lower Manhattan.

"David Childs knows how to build high-class expensive buildings," Silverstein said, with a smile. "This is the most expensive building built in the U.S.," he said.

In 2002, he estimated the cost would be $700 million; however, a spokesman for Silverstein would not update that number.

But its high cost is most likely to be on a per-square foot basis. He is building 52 floors, of which only 42 will be leased – containing 1.6 million rentable square feet. On a square foot basis it would be well over $400.

However, Childs plan is also costly because it incorporates a number of safety measures.

Earlier this week, Silverstein said the fires stairs will be widened, well beyond the 55 inches specified by the New York code – to make room for two-way traffic. Landings would be larger than required, and the stairwells pressurized, he added.

The two stairwells will put further apart than code requires to reduce the chances that both are damaged.

The contractor for the job is Daniel Tishman, president of Tishman Realty & Construction; Tishman's father, John, was in charge in the 1980s when it was created the first time.

But Daniel Libeskind, the master planner for Ground Zero, wasn't left of the proceedings altogether.

"We thank you for your vision," Pataki said. He later said that Childs and Libeskind have one more week to come up with design [of the Freedom Tower]." There are "two strong minds and two strong personalities," he said.

After the event, Childs acknowledge that the design for the top of the Freedom Tower is likely to change. "It won't have a glass top," he said, which was originally planned. It is likely to incorporate windmills and open air. He said that "it's important to utilize new energy-saving technologies and safety standards."


The first beam, signed by Gov. George Pataki and Larry Silverstein, in place at 7 World Trade Center. Gov. Pataki joined Larry Silverstein, president of Silverstein Properties and other dignitaries at a ceremony marking the start of steel erection for the tenant floors at 7 World Trade Center.

December 11th, 2003, 06:18 PM
More from the ceremony...(NEWSDAY)


Larry Silverstein and Gov. George Pataki pose with workers at a ceremony marking the start of steel erection for the tenant floors at 7 World Trade Center.


Gov. George Pataki (R), Larry Silverstein (C-L) and architect Daniel Libeskind (L) watch the raising of a beam at a ceremony marking the start of steel erection for the tenant floors at 7 World Trade Center.


Gov. Pataki and Larry Silverstein sign the beam at a ceremony marking the start of steel erection for the tenant floors at 7 World Trade Center.


Construction workers pose with the first beam to be raised at a ceremony marking the start of steel erection for the tenant floors at 7 World Trade Center.

December 11th, 2003, 07:06 PM
why does Leibeskind insist on wearing that get-up, every time he makes an appearence? He looks like David Copperfield and, rightfully, gets treated like Rodney Dangerfield.

Go buy a suit, Daniel!

December 11th, 2003, 07:18 PM
Childs, Silverstein, Libeskind, and Pataki should go on tour together. They would make a GREAT comedy routine. Think of the possibilities...(who gets to play NINA Libeskind in the movie?)


December 11th, 2003, 07:27 PM
Is that Childs in the beige?

December 11th, 2003, 07:28 PM
Is that Childs in the beige?

Yep. I saw them on television...Childs and Libeskind stood next to each other, all smiles. Meanwhile, you knew they were fighting the temptation to strangle each other...

December 12th, 2003, 01:27 PM
The columns are not that thin. Realize that the larges comercially manufactured steel shape is the W14x730 (that is general form size 14", 730 lbs per foot) measuring in at 22.42" high by 17.89" wide.

Now take that piece of steel, capable of holding approximately 8.320,000 pounds in pure axial force (50 KSI steel, 14 feet floor to flor unbraced) and span it 30 to 40 feet between columns and it will look relatively small.

But in all fairness, with that set of pictures does not look like that building is going to be very tall. I am guessing about 20 stories, at most? (And I could be very wrong with that).

I would not know until I went on site and looked for myself...:)

December 12th, 2003, 01:29 PM
750', I think.

December 12th, 2003, 08:50 PM
Yes and I think that its fifty or fifty-two floors.

Freedom Tower
December 12th, 2003, 09:54 PM
If the new wtc7 was to be only 20 stories I would've given up hope on the reconstruction process a long time ago :wink:. If it was any less than than 50 stories you would no doubt see a long line of complaints in this thread.

December 12th, 2003, 09:57 PM
52 floors.

December 14th, 2003, 06:52 AM
So far this seems to be the only definite/good/final idea to come out of the whole world trade centre. I hate what they're doing with the WTC, faffing around and everything! :x

December 15th, 2003, 01:25 PM
So far this seems to be the only definite/good/final idea to come out of the whole world trade centre. I hate what they're doing with the WTC, faffing around and everything! :x

You're not alone in this regard. I for one hate the way Pataki has hijacked the rebuilding process for his own ends. Either I'm dreaming or he's developed this phallic love affair for the 'spire'.

December 17th, 2003, 04:45 AM
I know its a disgusting thought but the man who wants a taller spire is compensating for smaller............things.

January 1st, 2004, 06:34 PM
Not a lot of change, but I figured Jan 1 was a good reference point...here's a couple of shots...



January 1st, 2004, 06:40 PM
Thanks for the photos, but is it just me or is this building being constructed extremely slowly?

January 1st, 2004, 08:56 PM
Once they finish the concrete to steel connection is should really start to rise.

January 2nd, 2004, 06:20 AM
Yeah, its so slow that my hairs turned gray since it started.

January 5th, 2004, 11:35 AM
Concrete requires a few days (7) to reach minimal strength for further construction. 28 days for full...

Depending on the size of the building, they may be doing it in several pours, so they need to lay out the formwork, reinforcement and all that ahead of time on the one section to be poured.

They pour that, and while waiting, set up the next pour section. The pours are usually spaced out by a week.

Now the second pour is ready to go. The second goes in, and the first pour area is hardened and ready to set up the formwork for columns and walls.

They finish the pour on the second section, start framing the third, and start framing the first pours walls and such, etc etc. They try to time it so that the walls and columns will be ready to set the next stories formwork up by the time they are finished with the lower floor.

And comparitively, steel erection flies.

January 5th, 2004, 06:45 PM
This building wont be done til 2008? 2010? Whats the date for it?

January 6th, 2004, 09:44 AM
i think its 2007 but i cant remember.

January 6th, 2004, 04:37 PM
late 2005....ver very fast construction :D

TLOZ Link5
January 6th, 2004, 06:32 PM
I know its a disgusting thought but the man who wants a taller spire is compensating for smaller............things.

It has nothing to do with phallic symbols; it's just that a building shaped like a vagina doesn't have as much structural integrity as one that tapers upward.

...BTW, are you male or female? That's actually a question I've wanted to ask of many people on this board; a lot of us are very asexual.

January 6th, 2004, 06:40 PM
...BTW, are you male or female? That's actually a question I've wanted to ask of many people on this board; a lot of us are very asexual.

How are we asexual?