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NYguy
January 7th, 2003, 10:07 AM
Daily News...

Skyscrapers won't be early risers at Ground Zero

A top lower Manhattan planner predicted last night a memorial for terror victims, a transit hub, stores and cultural institutions would be the first structures to rise from the ruins of Ground Zero.

Giant office towers will only be rebuilt after the initial round of contruction has been completed, Alexander Garvin told downtown's Community Board 1.

"You have to do the memorial first, along with the streets and the railroad station," said Garvin, lead planner for the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

Garvin also said the ambitious plans unveiled last month were merely "illustrative" and that the buildings may not look exactly like any of those portrayed in the plans.

The LMDC is set to announce guidelines for a memorial this week. The agency and the Port Authority expect to make a joint recommendation on the rebuilding plan by the end of the month.

JMGarcia
January 7th, 2003, 12:03 PM
Maybe in 2 years after 7 WTC has filled up they'll announce another 50 story tower to be built. That's of course only if by then the memorial hasn't expanded to fill the site.

These people are pissing me off! :angry:

To the majority of people the more important memorial is going to be new towers, not the tribute to the dead which is more for the families.

Fabb
January 7th, 2003, 05:02 PM
Quote: from JMGarcia on 11:03 am on Jan. 7, 2003
Maybe in 2 years after 7 WTC has filled up they'll announce another 50 story tower to be built. That's of course only if by then the memorial hasn't expanded to fill the site.


There's always a risk.
Especially if too many influential people express different opinions.

JMGarcia
January 7th, 2003, 05:52 PM
There's always a risk.
Especially if too many influential people express different opinions.

As long as there are too many different groups demanding different things out of the rebuilding it will play right into the hands of the PA/LMDC/Silverstein effectively letting them ignore the squabbling and build what they want.

Only when there is majority consensus (like there is with the idea that a memorial must be built) are they forced to act.

Before their release, I was hoping that there would be consensus on one of the plans that could then force those in charge into a direction the public wants. This doesn't seem to be happening with everyone being stubborn about their narrow interests. I really believe that the public is losing its best and perhaps last chance to significantly influence the rebuilding.

NYguy
January 7th, 2003, 07:43 PM
We'll see how this is going once public discussion begins...


A top lower Manhattan planner predicted last night a memorial for terror victims, a transit hub, stores and cultural institutions would be the first structures to rise from the ruins of Ground Zero.

Makes sense. *These things are not dependant on market conditions. *But with the construction of 7 WTC already began, I expect other office *buildings to *begin construction by 2005 at least. *The final plan will give us the "appearance" of the new WTC....

JMGarcia
January 7th, 2003, 07:51 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 6:43 pm on Jan. 7, 2003
We'll see how this is going once public discussion begins...


A top lower Manhattan planner predicted last night a memorial for terror victims, a transit hub, stores and cultural institutions would be the first structures to rise from the ruins of Ground Zero.

Makes sense. *These things are not dependant on market conditions. *But with the construction of 7 WTC already began, I expect other office *buildings to *begin construction by 2005 at least. *The final plan will give us the "appearance" of the new WTC....

I agree that building the ground level and below stuff first makes sense. Really, how else could it go when you think about it.

I really do hope the plan will give us the appearance of the new WTC. My fear is we'll get a site plan with no mention of heights or even sq. footage in the parcels.

I'm definitely going to be at the Jan. 13th meeting.

NYguy
January 7th, 2003, 08:11 PM
The PA will set the final amount of space to be built, they exact height of the tallest building may differ, but if its the "world's tallest" chosen, expect it to be within a hundred ft of whatever's built.

Some pics of original WTC construction from

http://savethewtcgalleries.tripod.com/construction.html

JMGarcia
January 7th, 2003, 10:04 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 7:11 pm on Jan. 7, 2003
The PA will set the final amount of space to be built, they exact height of the tallest building may differ, but if its the "world's tallest" chosen, expect it to be within a hundred ft of whatever's built.


Do you really think the PA will announce plans to put the world's tallest building on the site? I sure hope you have some inside informatuon and you're right!! That'd be fantastic. :D

jb nyc4 ever
January 8th, 2003, 03:58 AM
These people are pissing me off! :angry:

To the majority of people the more important memorial is going to be new towers, not the tribute to the dead which is more for the families.
[/quote]no the memorial should be for the dead first cause you cant bring them back and no one should ever forget w

jb nyc4 ever
January 8th, 2003, 04:01 AM
Quote: from jb nyc4 ever on 2:58 am on Jan. 8, 2003

These people are pissing me off! :angry:

To the majority of people the more important memorial is going to be new towers, not the tribute to the dead which is more for the families.
no the memorial should be for the dead first cause you cant bring them back and no one should ever forget what those animals did i think both the memorial and new towers should be created w equal consideration

jb nyc4 ever
January 8th, 2003, 04:02 AM
Quote: from jb nyc4 ever on 2:58 am on Jan. 8, 2003

These people are pissing me off! :angry:

To the majority of people the more important memorial is going to be new towers, not the tribute to the dead which is more for the families.
no the memorial should be for the dead first cause you cant bring them back and no one should ever forget what those animals did i think both the memorial and new towers should be created w equal consideration

amigo32
January 8th, 2003, 04:33 AM
Welcome, to the forum, jb nyc4 ever! * :)

(Edited by amigo32 at 3:36 am on Jan. 8, 2003)

NYguy
January 8th, 2003, 09:11 AM
NY Post...

DEEP-SIX ‘PIT' PLAN: KIN
By WILLIAM NEUMAN


A Ground Zero design proposal to preserve the empty pit where the Twin Towers once stood is getting a cool reception from a surprising quarter - the 9/11 families who have campaigned for months to set aside the trade center "bathtub" area for a memorial.

"We don't want to leave a hole in the ground," said Lee Ielpi, a member of the Coalition of 9/11 Families, whose firefighter son Jonathan was killed.

"I don't want to go below grade for the memorial. I want the memorial to be up in the sunlight."

Unique among the nine new proposals for Ground Zero, the plan by architect Daniel Libeskind calls for leaving about two-thirds of the excavated bathtub as an immense, seven-story deep pit, which would be used for a memorial and museum.

Libeskind's focus on the bathtub area appeals to relatives like Ielpi, who have crusaded to have it declared "sacred ground" and reserved for memorial uses all the way down to bedrock.

But the most distinctive aspect of the plan - to preserve the pit, leaving its concrete walls visible - has not resonated.

"I don't think it should be a hole in the ground. It should be a living memorial. There should be green space, water. It can be up on ground level," said another coalition member, Jack Lynch.

Several relatives envision a combination of above- and below-ground tributes.

"On the top, you build a memorial. Below grade, down to bedrock, we can show the enormity of it, the sadness of it," said Ielpi. "Put a cover on it, it makes for a beautiful setting, a reverent setting. It gives you a feeling of life."

The families are also keenly aware that Libeskind's design - which has drawn strong interest from officials at the LMDC and the Port Authority - is a non-starter with many downtown residents.

"We don't want to be living next to this big hole in the earth," said Sudhir Jain, president of the WTC Residents Coalition.

"We're living next to a big hole now. We want to live next to something that's living, that's part of day-to-day Manhattan life. Exposing the bathtub walls is absurd."

Madelyn Wils, a Lower Manhattan Development Corp. board member who also heads downtown's Community Board 1, said, "From a practical point of view . . . it's a big space to leave empty."

Family members have also criticized the LMDC for seeking to complete the Ground Zero site plan before designing the memorial.

The LMDC will release proposed guidelines for a memorial competition today.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/web01080306.jpg

CRITICISM:
A controversial new proposal would leave the underground WTC "bathtub" intact - raw concrete walls and all.

TLOZ Link5
January 8th, 2003, 05:38 PM
I, for one, think that it's appropriate for the memorial, grade-level facilities, and streets to be built first. *There has to be a blueprint, per se, for whatever is built at Ground Zero (hopefully the WTB, or at least in the Top Five). *And stages need to be set to ensure an orderly process. *Satisfy short-term needs first: a profound, dignified—and not necessarily giant—memorial (to shut the families up); a partial restoration of the former street "grid" (to better integrate the site to the rest of the city, yet not to the extent that it's simply a bunch of unrelated plots); and cultural facilities like an opera house or performing arts theater (to give Downtown a head start on nightlife).

Remember that the original WTC wasn't constructed all at once either; the Towers were obviously built first, along with one plaza building; the two others followed a few years after. * *The Marriott wasn't built until 1981, and 7 WTC was finished in '85.

ZippyTheChimp
January 8th, 2003, 07:01 PM
Whatever family (and other) groups object to a "hole in the ground" memorial may miss the opportunity to create a powerful symbol.

It's difficult to predict how a memorial will work. I can offer the example of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. When the winning design was announced, it was widely criticized as being too small, too minimalist, unheroic. It didn't help that the designer was a 21 year old Chinese-American woman.
Fortunately, it got built anyway. It's the most emotionally powerful place I've ever visited, full of subtle symbolism. Since it's chronological, the path downward is like going deeper into the war; the wall becomes higher and the casualties greater. The path out is just the way the war ended. No decisive battle, just a gradual winding down.

I walk by the WTC every day, and the people I see are all looking at the wall. For me it has an "archaeologic" quality.

Agglomeration
January 8th, 2003, 07:12 PM
If there are any slight hints of plans for a 16-acre memorial or even a 9-acre memorial as part of the plans for ground Zero, there will be sure to be stiff opposition from many quarters, and there should be.

NYguy
January 8th, 2003, 09:24 PM
Newsday...

9/11 Memorial Draft Calls For 'Final Resting Place'

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The memorial to the Sept. 11 terrorist attack should include space set aside for the unidentified remains of the World Trade Center victims, according to draft guidelines announced Wednesday.

The draft also calls for a memorial that will preserve the footprints of the twin towers and recognize each of the more than 3,000 victims of the attacks at the trade center, at the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania.

Separate committees made up of victims' family members, local residents, architects and others drafted the memorial program and its accompanying mission statement, which will be incorporated into the competition guidelines for designing the memorial.

The draft memorial program and mission statement are generally vague, full of phrases like "respect this place made sacred through tragic loss" and "acknowledge all those who aided in rescue, recovery and healing."

"What the committees really felt strongly about was the opportunity to provide participants with the flexibility to interpret and transcend what was presented," said Anita Contini, who heads the memorial process for the Lower Manhattan Development Corp., the agency in charge of revitalizing the area around the trade center site.

Diana Balmori, a member of the program committee, said: "The whole ethos of the thing was to see if one really could leave the hands of the designer free. The whole point was to give some general sense of the concepts or the principals and not tell them what to do."

The inclusion of a final resting place for the more than 1,300 victims whose remains have not yet been identified is important to many of the victims' family members.

"There has to be a provision in this memorial to inter the remains of those people who were never identified and who were never recovered," said Sally Regenhard, whose son Christian Regenhard, one of 343 firefighters killed at the trade center, was never found.

Gov. George Pataki praised the draft memorial guidelines in his State of the State speech Wednesday, saying, "The guiding principals rightly call for an area of the memorial as a dignified, final resting place for all those who are known only to God."

When they are made final in the spring after a period of public comment, the guidelines will form the basis for an international design competition. A design for the memorial is scheduled to be chosen by Sept. 11 of this year, the second anniversary of the attacks.

LMDC officials have said that the memorial will be built before any office buildings are constructed at the site.

A public hearing on the memorial is scheduled for Jan. 14 at Pace University.