Visionaries, Day-Dreamers, Crackpots...

[dbhstockton]

This forum has been a magnet for those who have their own visions for the WTC site, and the website to go with it. *There are others who have specific visions but no website. *I thought it would be nice to start a thread that would allow members to see all the ideas in one place.

I think it says something about this forum -- I'm not sure what, exactly-- that so many people have personally submitted their own lovingly crafted conceptions for our review: *

Chris Grayson's NYC Sky (http://www.nycsky.com/) proposal
The Thomson Plan (http://www.american-journey.com)
A thread started by Thomas: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=406
Another old thread started by GR2NYsoon: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=183
The infamous Big Apple Twins (http://www.oljaivanjicki.com/)
http://www.tedmeeder.com/WTC.htm
http://www.newskyline.net/
http://www.CHAI.TV
"The Towers of Perseverance" (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=4&topic=120)

I also invite anyone to post their ideas here, so that this thread might be a kind of survey of the architectural thought going on in this forum.

Yeah, I was kind of bored this evening...

[Stern]

I wish I had more time and I would include these as parts of my website. I am working on something that would be immensly helpful if I can work it out. A pdf file on all the buildings of New York City. *

Basically its a work in progress. And I try not to overextend. I used to have "news" but this proved too much work, so I replaced it. Also the building entries are concise, but I will write them in lengths of weeks. I will sit down and write if Im inspired, if not it will linger. I have been working on my Bloomberg entry for almost two weeks now. I find it rewarding though, to have a place for all my thoughts. Off the top of my head this forum is still the best place to come...


(Edited by Stern at 6:14 pm on Feb. 12, 2003)

[Stern]

And back to topic, I will leave the World Trade Center site designs to the proffesionals. I am yet to see an "acceptable" amateur design.

[Edward]

I am shocked you did not mention the RatherGood proposal (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/topic.cgi?forum=7&topic=46), a more caring architecture of sweet babies and calmer music. The Colossal Calmer Karma Crab, Big Benevolent Baby Baloon and the Platitudipus are revolutionizing architecture right this moment.

[dbhstockton]

How could I forget? *Well, that's why I started this thread.

[TLOZ Link5]

I wonder what kind of LSD the designer of rathergood was on...

The colossal karma crab looked like a giant spider. *eek...

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

The link below is to my proposal, which is being developed by the art foundry Tallix in Beacon, NY. My proposal is to turn the entire Ground Zero site into a park featuring bronze replicas of meaningful remains of the Towers that stayed standing. You can see the progress of this proposal at: http://www.agroundzeromemorial.info

All the best,
Gilbert

[ZippyTheChimp]

As a resident, I think this is a great idea.

I hope there is enough open area for Little League.

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

Zippy,
I think that is an excellent idea! What if it's an area where kids could also play softball/baseball, soccer, kickball, ultimate frissbee, etc. Does anyone know what the minimum dimensions are for such an area? Could the site accommodate that?
All the best,
Gilbert

[ZippyTheChimp]

"Mummy, I'm tired of the apple. Can I go play on the rusty metal?"

"Not today, dear. You haven't had your tetanus booster shot."

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

Zippy,
These would be sculptured replicas. I keep hearing the concern that these would be rusty, dangerous pieces of metal. Not true!

[ZippyTheChimp]

Well, I'm just too dense to function.
Somebody please shoot me.

[dbhstockton]

Why build replicas when you have many tons of the real thing?

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

DBH,
Ask The Chimp,
Gilbert

[ZippyTheChimp]

Touche!

I haven't heard much about it lately, but there was a plan to distribute WTC steel to various communities, so they could make their own memorials. Your plan would make more sense in this context.

Turning the entire site into a park is completely unrealistic.

However, Stockton is right. The logic of using replicated artifacts escapes me.

[amigo32]

It's nice to see that you haven't given up on your idea, Gilbert. *You certainly are a man of dedication.

[TLOZ Link5]

Gilbert, your idea IMHO is simple, yet very refined and elegant. *I for one think that it is profundity, not excessive symbolism, which defines a great memorial. *Oversymbolic monuments are more often seen in fascist countries, where cities are remade into giant parade grounds to celebrate the power of he regime. *This, however, echoes more along the lines of the Vietnam Memorial--being suggestive as opposed in your face.

If I may make one small suggestion, though. *Sixteen acres is a lot of space for just a nice park and a replication of the Twin Tower's facade. *I know you're against commercial development, so I'd suggest a cultural facility, like a performing arts center, and/or a museum about 9/11 and the history of the WTC site. *Downtown sorely needs cultural facilities if it wants to rival Midtown as a major mixed-use community.

[Agglomeration]

16 acres is a lot of space for a set of skyscrapers (hopefully 1,300 feet or higher) and a nice park to coexist.

[TLOZ Link5]

I don't doubt that, but it's customary to respect the opinions of others.

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

Agglomeration,
Maybe it's just me but when you say the following in your last message on this forum...
"It was the ceaseless whining of mega-memorialists and skyscraper haters like Monica Iken and Jack Lynch that disrupted the rebuilding process in the first place. Even the Port Authority is getting sick of them and I support the PA in this regard"...
I really wonder what kind of misguided fanatics are on this message board.
Gilbert

[amigo32]

Just one big happy family, with a tiny amount of misguided fanatics among our membership. *:)

[Agglomeration]

With due respect to you all, I'm not sure if someone like me who would prefer to have new WTC Twin Towers alongside a memorial park should be called a misguided fanatic. Everyone has a right to express his opinion on the particular subject, however strong, on this forum; I'm only expressing mine. ;)

(Edited by Agglomeration at 1:49 am on Feb. 16, 2003)

[amigo32]

I wasn't referring to you Agglomeration, only to the misguided fanatics who detest construction, and prefer memorialization over skyscrapers.

[Agglomeration]

Monica Iken needs a grief counselor, not a 16-ACRE memorial that will make people collapse in grief or vomit. You're right though. These mega-memorialists have no sense of the city's entrepreneurial spirit or even of its determination to adapt to changing circumstances and move on.

(Edited by Agglomeration at 3:53 pm on Feb. 16, 2003)

[Gilbert Gjersvik]

Agglomeration,
I do find it amusing that people like you who are so critical of victim's families are too cowardly to use your real names on these message boards. It's quite easy to launch diatribes against others anonymously. I doubt you'd ever have the guts to say this stuff to their faces, or post it online with your real name!
Gilbert Gjersvik
Upper East Side

[chris]

Gilbert, while I empathize with your frustration, you have to consider that your position is seen as a bit extreme by most people as well.

I have a memorial proposal with a site plan for commercial development around the memorial:

http://www.nycsky.com

On forum sites, opinions tend to be very polarized.

There are several camps that have "absolute" positions. Several prominent ones are:

1. The buildings must be built back exactly as they were or a few stories taller or the terrorist have won.

2. The entire site must be a memorial. Not one square foot of commercial space should be built because this is sacred ground.

3. We have to build the World's Tallest Building, anything shorter would be to concede defeat

4. We must never ever build tall again, it is reckless, dangerous and irresponsible

All these conflicting camps, and my proposal does not satify any of them. I get a lot of positive feedback from site visitors, but when it comes to forum sites, watch out!

On forums, the reactions for each camp numbered above, the typical response is below:

1. This isn't the twin towers! You're a "mega memorialist" freak, you $##@!!!

2. You left over half the space for commercial development, you sick greedy b@stard! Not one inch of commercial space can ever be built there or the organization I'm with is going to lay in the streets and block the bulldozers.

3. This tower isn't the tallest building in the world! How dare you suggest anything less the the tallest!

4. This tower is way too tall, you're a reckless maniac!



(Edited by chris at 8:58 am on Feb. 17, 2003)

[Zzed]

having thought about the WTC and then reflected for several seconds on those thoughts, i arrived at the perfect low cost solution. assemble all the reports, documents, models, magazine and newspaper articles, video tapes and whatnot into a structure using supertallglue and leave to set for 1776 hours. care must be taken not to include hot air inside otherwise it may all fall apart.

i estimate that this self-reflecting tower should easily exceed the height of the Burj Dubai and possibly even the size of Daniel Libeskind's ego.

(no drawing attached)