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JMGarcia
March 5th, 2003, 02:13 PM
I realized that using the higher option, the Libeskind towers are about the height of the Meier towers pictured here. They would also be wider than the individial vertical shafts of Meier.

The Garden Tower itself would of course be much taller and, on its wide sides, would be about the width (a little larger if you can believe the site plans) of the individual shafts here. Compare them to Woolworth and the other historic downtown towers.

http://www.renewnyc.com/images/plan_des_images/firmg_sig1.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/images/plan_des_images/firmg_sig3.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/images/plan_des_images/firmg_sig2.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/firm_g/slides/images/Slide20.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/firm_g/slides/images/Slide21.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/firm_g/slides/images/Slide26.jpg

http://www.renewnyc.com/plan_des_dev/wtc_site/new_design_plans/firm_g/slides/images/Slide39.jpg

Kris
March 5th, 2003, 03:01 PM
The critical difference spire aside is the dynamism of Libeskind's plan. This one is static and serene whereas his rises "triumphantly" in a spiraling motion. The towers will also likely be varied, which depending on the guidelines might break the coherence of the complex's impact on the skyline.

Anonymous
March 5th, 2003, 03:05 PM
Something that is the same about these two is that they are both weak substitutes to the Yamasaki's Twins, though this is my opinion.

Kris
March 5th, 2003, 03:08 PM
Please get rid of him.

Anonymous
March 5th, 2003, 03:16 PM
I was only stating what I thought about those designs. *I only feel that you can't build something in place of the Twins. *This does not mean that you have the right to throw a temper tantrum. *They don't even look very realistic. *They belong in Sim City. *I'm tired of all these guidlines of what the WTC site should have.

TAFisher123
March 5th, 2003, 03:49 PM
TalB, you have a one track mind.....thats why your annoying everyone....your not bringing anything intelligent to the conversation....

Anonymous
March 5th, 2003, 04:57 PM
So sue me if I'm for having back exactly what was there rather than redesigning it, now let's agree to a truce here and don't make unwarranted assumptions about what you read.

Gulcrapek
March 5th, 2003, 05:03 PM
Tal, the point is to keep posts specifically voicing support for your cause in the thread devoted to it. Please avoid posting the same opinion in threads where it isn't necessarily relevant.

chris
March 5th, 2003, 05:06 PM
I'm a very big fan of Richard Meier. I don't think this design is representative of his work. There were other people on this team, let us not forget. Peter Eisenman, Steven Holl and Gwathmey Siegel had some input I'm sure... maybe too much input.

Gwathmey Siegel's IBM building in North Carolina...
http://www.gwathmey-siegel.com/projects/architecture/corporate_projects/ibm/images/pop-ups/ibm_p02.jpg

Peter Eisenman first WTC proposal for the NYT's magazine...
http://www.thecityreview.com/nytdes3.gif

Steven Holl's new MIT dorms, interior view...
http://stevenholl.com/media/room.jpg

Kris
March 5th, 2003, 05:59 PM
I'm not throwing a tantrum, I'm making the request that your moronic litany be removed from this forum in the only possible way - your banishment, since you're apparently beyond reasoning.

Kris
March 5th, 2003, 06:06 PM
Eisenman's design for a 48-story office tower on the Friedrichstrasse in Berlin:

http://www.archiguide.de/f_archi_eisen.jpg

It's the same site for which Mies proposed his visionary skyscraper and is even inspired by it.

Fabb
March 5th, 2003, 06:07 PM
Peter Eisenman had interesting ideas. (Not appropriate for that site of course...).

How come skyscrapers that actually get built are so unimaginative ?

Kris
March 5th, 2003, 06:14 PM
The real estate business is generally conservative and highrises involve a lot of money. But this one to my knowledge is still a possibility.

NYatKNIGHT
March 5th, 2003, 06:20 PM
Some imaginative skyscrapers look costly to build. I'm sure another reason is that some owner's lack either an eye for art or the balls to go for it. That awesome Eisenman Tower looks sexy by the way.

Like JMGarcia so keenly observed, Meier's city renderings are better than the Libeskind ones, so it is easier to picture the relationship on the skyline of the spiraling towers using the Meier plans. Excluding the needle, the Meier towers are 1,111 feet and the Libeskind towers are about 1,100 down to 750 (like the tallest WFC tower).

http://www.renewnyc.com/images/plan_des_images/firmg_sig2.jpg

Fabb
March 5th, 2003, 06:27 PM
Conservative ?
Yes they are. I'd even say frigid.

About the renderings : Meier's are good indeed, but I think Libeskind's were intentionally vague and troubling. The man is clever.

(Edited by Fabb at 5:28 pm on Mar. 5, 2003)

Eugenius
March 5th, 2003, 06:55 PM
I think that Meier dug himself a hole when he intentionally made the five buildings of uniform height. *I can just as easily see them increasing in height, for example, from South to North and from West to East for a much more dynamic ensemble, perhaps even to rival Libeskind.
Of course, this design also suffers from the frigid and user-unfriendly plaza at the base of the towers. *Not much you can do about that.

chris
March 5th, 2003, 09:05 PM
Christian, thanks for sharing. On a personal level, I think Peter Eisenman is an ass, but it's nice to see he can produce a nice tower. That Mies tower you speak of also inspired a firm founded by a group of his students at IIT to design Lake Point Tower in downtown Chicago:

http://www.december.com/places/chi/images/lakeptwr.jpg



(Edited by chris at 8:14 pm on Mar. 5, 2003)

chris
March 5th, 2003, 09:09 PM
Below is an image of Mies' model of his unbuilt design. Is Eisenman's tower being built?

http://www.designmp.com/archivos_htm/magazine_img/m_20_2_0g.jpg

TLOZ Link5
March 5th, 2003, 09:21 PM
Quote: from Kris on 5:06 pm on Mar. 5, 2003
Eisenman's design for a 48-story office tower on the Friedrichstrasse in Berlin:

http://www.archiguide.de/f_archi_eisen.jpg

It's the same site for which Mies proposed his visionary skyscraper and is even inspired by it.
It looks a lot like the DGA Tower, albeit obviously not by the same architect. *However, I like this Berlin proposal better; it's very sinuous and quite elegant. *It would be interesting to see it in Berlin; there aren't any buildings there that are tall by New York standards.

TonyO
March 5th, 2003, 09:59 PM
Ahh, the Lakepoint Tower of Chicago. *The disco tower! * I like the design of the three tubes put together.

The Mies tower you included a picture of, TLOZ, is a great design IMHO. *A bit like the Lakepoint tower, but very original.

chris
March 6th, 2003, 12:47 AM
Yes, as I stated before, the Lakepoint tower was based on the unbuilt tower designed by Mies.


(Edited by chris at 2:45 am on Mar. 7, 2003)

dbhstockton
March 6th, 2003, 01:44 AM
Just for some historical perspective, I'd like to add that the unbuilt Mies design is from 1922.

Fountainhead
March 6th, 2003, 05:25 AM
I actually worked on a stadium competition scheme that was a collaboration between HOK Sport (when I was working in London) and Eisenman. We did two stadium competitions for Bayern Munich and La Coruna in Spain. Neither got built and I never met the man, but Eisenman came up with some very interesting sculptural fluid shapes for the roof and facade. It was my job to interpret their 3d images and translate them into floor plan and section shapes.....about the most frustrating thing I have had to do!

He is a good shape maker, which is why I was surprised by the WTC design being so conservative - he must have taken a back seat in the tower designs.

I do like Meier's work most of the time - he produces some remarkable light filled spaces, and Holl is also a very interesting architect. All up, their scheme had some interesting masterplan ideas, but just was not seductive enough.... Just stating the obvious!

dbhstockton
March 6th, 2003, 12:00 PM
t was my job to interpret their 3d images and translate them into floor plan and section shapes.....about the most frustrating thing I have had to do!

I feel your pain, Fountainhead. *I always wondered whose job it was to do that.

TLOZ Link5
March 6th, 2003, 04:50 PM
Heh, I didn't post it. *Christian did; I was just quoting his post.