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JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 09:56 AM
May 8, 2003, 7:36 AM EDT
Newsday

NEW YORK (AP) _ More than half of the city's registered voters say building the world's tallest building at the World Trade Center site is a "bad idea," according to a poll released Thursday.

The Quinnipiac University poll found that 57 percent said redevelopment at the site should not include the tallest structure in the world, compared with 36 percent who said it should.

Architect Daniel Libeskind's plan for the site, chosen in February, includes a 1,776-foot spire that would be the world's tallest structure.

Fifty-two percent said the building should be shorter so it is not a terrorist target, while 39 percent said a taller building would be a statement of the city's recovery, the poll found.

"Low marks for the high building planned for the World Trade Center site," Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, said in a statement.

"New Yorkers don't want to tempt terrorists to attack a third time," he said.

Seventy percent of New Yorkers said there should be just one memorial to the victims of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attack, and not a separate memorial for the rescuers who were killed.

The poll also found that 58 percent said Mayor Michael Bloomberg should have the major role in decisions about redeveloping the site, while 23 percent said Gov. Pataki should have the major role.

The poll surveyed 757 New York City registered voters between April 29 and May 5, and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.6 percentage points.


Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press

-----------------

Idiots.

Kris
May 8th, 2003, 10:22 AM
Glorious times.

NYatKNIGHT
May 8th, 2003, 11:24 AM
Morons. Say what you want about the rebuilding process so far, but at least they had the foresight not to put the general public in charge of it. And all these polls about which design the public likes the best are pointless. Too many people have their heads up their asses - you know them and I know them - thankfully these major decisions are not in their hands.

The 52% who thought the building should be shorter so it isn't a terrorist target forgot about the Pentagon, I guess.

(Edited by NYatKNIGHT at 1:04 pm on May 8, 2003)

JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 11:32 AM
at least they had the forsight not to put the general public in charge of it. And all these polls about which design the public likes the best are pointless.

Here, here. :)

The public can't see beyond the quality of the rendering and how something looks from afar. There's more to all the plans than that needless to say.

Fabb
May 8th, 2003, 11:45 AM
The Quinnipiac University poll found that 57 percent said redevelopment at the site should not include the tallest structure in the world

This is really misleading.
Most of the New-Yorkers were probably aware that the former WTC was NOT the world's tallest building.
When asked if the site should include a record breaking structure, they probably have in mind an even taller 120-story mammoth building.

If only they knew what is currently considered as a WTB...

Anonymous
May 8th, 2003, 11:50 AM
If the general public had been in charge of making decisions, many of the marvels of the world would probably never have been built.

Lightning Homer
May 8th, 2003, 11:59 AM
I think voters are pretty smart. We should never build tall buildings again. I'd say, we should also DESTROY all the tall buildings we already have to prevent such attacks. The message to terrorists must be clear : YOU'VE WON, GUYS !

P.S. I'm *i-r-o-n-i-c *!

(Edited by Lightning Homer at 11:00 am on May 8, 2003)

JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 12:00 PM
I'll agree with Fabb. Most people probably have no idea of the specifics of the tower or how high will be occupied. They probably never think it through before answering.

Fabb
May 8th, 2003, 12:07 PM
We shouldn't blame them. They're misinformed.

NYatKNIGHT
May 8th, 2003, 12:10 PM
The polls are pointless too.

Agglomeration
May 8th, 2003, 12:13 PM
(Fifty-two percent said the building should be shorter so it is not a terrorist target, while 39 percent said a taller building would be a statement of the city's recovery, the poll found.

"Low marks for the high building planned for the World Trade Center site," Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, said in a statement.

"New Yorkers don't want to tempt terrorists to attack a third time," he said.)

This is the attitude this great metro area's residents need to shed, for their own good. Does that mean the residents of this great city are turning into cowards? I hope not. And whoever came to these conclusions need to go see a counselor.

ZippyTheChimp
May 8th, 2003, 12:17 PM
Logical thinking is not always the domain of public opinion.

America's tallest building is not even in NYC. Washington DC and NYC were attacked because they are the political and economic symbols of the country. If NYC had no WTC or ESB, the plane would probably have hit the NYSE.

But it doesn't matter. That's not the public perception. I hope those who complained about the undemocratic selection process take note.

Personally, I think the majority are ambivalent about the WTB, and only when confronted with a choice (poll), they may reason, "well, no sense in having another terrorist target."

Lightning Homer
May 8th, 2003, 12:19 PM
Let's forbid commercial flight over America, then. Rather than erasing ev'ry tall building in the country. Actually, wouldn't be that bad. Train is less polluting and carry mush more people and stuff for much less waiste of energy...

Don't be a sucker. THINK !

TonyO
May 8th, 2003, 02:04 PM
People are sheep, there is no doubt in that. *It just takes someone with vision and clout to lead them to something better. *Sad to say that doesn't exist right now.

The spire is not even a building...say anything to make a headline. *It should have asked, "do you think its a good idea to have a radio tower with an observation deck that is tall at the WTC site?"

They should take a new poll when we come out of this economic mess.

JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 02:08 PM
A google news search shows the poll showing up in lots of papers. Here's what the Daily News had to say.


New Yorkers afraid of building tallest terror target

Poll also shows residents overwhelmingly want single memorial for all WTC victims

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

The majority of New Yorkers think building the world’s tallest building at Ground Zero is a bad idea, according to a poll released Thursday.

The new buildings on the site of the World Trade Center should be shorter so as not to become a possible terrorist target again, the Quinnipiac University poll shows.

Architect Daniel Libeskind’s plan for the site, chosen in February, includes a 1,776-foot spire that would be the world’s tallest structure.

“New Yorkers don’t want to tempt terrorists to attack a third time,” said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute that conducted the survey.

With 7 percent not expressing an opinion, New Yorkers oppose constructing the world’s tallest building at ground zero 57 percent to 36 percent.

However, 39 percent said a taller building would be a statement of the city’s recovery. Fifty-two percent said it could become a target; 9 percent of those polled expressed no opinion.

Sixty-two percent of New Yorkers said the redevelopment of Lower Manhattan after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks are going “very well” or “somewhat well,” while 28 percent said it’s going “somewhat badly” or “very badly.”

In a March 28 Quinnipiac poll, 78 percent said the redevelopment was going “very well” or “somewhat well.”

On a topic that has become a sore point — the memorial to be built at the site — 70 percent of New Yorkers said there should be just one memorial for all the victims, from civilians to rescue workers who died on Sept. 11. Some families of rescuers have lobbied for a separate tribute.

The opinions were fielded from April 29 to May 5, with 757 registered voters surveyed. The margin of error is plus or minus 3.6 percentage points.

Originally published on May 8, 2003

--------------------------------------

As Zippy said


I hope those who complained about the undemocratic selection process take note.

There doesn't seem to be any sort of popular uprising likely against how things are going any time soon.

I sure hope Pataki doesn't take these poll numbers too seriously though. Libeskind is in no position to fight to keep 1776ft after the "Wedge of Light" and "Nine Lies" slams.

Edward
May 8th, 2003, 02:33 PM
If you look at the detailed results of the Quinnipiac University poll at
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x5942.xml
there is very interesting difference how men and women answer the two questions about the world's tallest building.


For the question: Do you think it is a good idea or a bad idea to build the world's tallest building at the World Trade Center site? 50% of men think it's a good idea (vs 43% of men who think it isn't) while only 24% of women think it's a good idea (vs 68% who think it isn't)

For the question: Which comes closer to your point of view --
A) A shorter building should be built at the World Trade Center site so it is not a target for future terrorist attacks.
or *
B) A taller building should be built at the World Trade Center site as a statement of New York's recovery.

53% of men (vs 38%) think it should be taller, while 63% of women (vs 28%) think it should be shorter.

NYatKNIGHT
May 8th, 2003, 02:36 PM
Interesting. Our city is becomming over-femanized!

To be perfectly honest, I think calling it a 1776 foot tower is every bit as misleading as the Wedge of Light and all the rest. Dan uses symbolism to evade calling it was it really is - a 1300 foot tower with a big needle.

(Edited by NYatKNIGHT at 1:38 pm on May 8, 2003)

Lightning Homer
May 8th, 2003, 02:42 PM
It'll still be the world's taller human construction. I'd prefer to have a 1776 tall tower with a needle on it but as I know, it's cheap to talk...

"Would I work in an office located on the 110 th floor ? Only if there would be none available on the 120 th !"

Agglomeration
May 8th, 2003, 02:47 PM
I just hope we don't have NIMBY's using this poll as fuel to join forces to flatten all skyscrapers in Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn. I just came back from a trip to Wasington DC, and the suburban areas there are exactly what the NIMBY's want. I'll get to it another time.

Overall NY Knight is right; this city is becoming way too feminized (no offense to the females on this board). If anyone has suggestions about injecting the city's residents with adrenalin and helping them shed their fear of tall buildings, I'll gladly help.

(Edited by Agglomeration at 2:00 pm on May 8, 2003)

Fabb
May 8th, 2003, 03:04 PM
Overall NY Knight is right; this city is becoming way too feminized

But none of the decision-makers involved in the rebuilding process is a woman I think.

Agglomeration
May 8th, 2003, 03:08 PM
Even the men in the WTC process are losing their courage to build tall, that's what I think. Silverstein's persistent 70-floor height limit is one unhealthy sign. Monica Iken and her allies obviously didn't help matters; neither did all those Paris and Boston-loving NIMBY's.:angry: Maybe we should start a grassroots movement to reverse this fear and help New Yorkers rediscover the importance of skyscrapers again.

(Edited by Agglomeration at 2:09 pm on May 8, 2003)

Lightning Homer
May 8th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Anyways, "feminized" should never mean gutless !

NYatKNIGHT
May 8th, 2003, 04:24 PM
Quote: from Fabb on 2:04 pm on May 8, 2003[br
But none of the decision-makers involved in the rebuilding process is a woman I think.
Right, it's really those polled I was referring to. Also, I stole Bill Maher's (Politically Incorrect) line about the over-femanized society, it came back to me when reading the poll results that Edward pointed out. Woman are more fearful of a tall building at WTC, but you're all correct whether it be a man or woman, to me it's gutless.

JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 04:36 PM
Silverstein's persistent 70-floor height limit is one unhealthy sign.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the problem is insurance rates for going higher are astronomical.

TomAuch
May 8th, 2003, 04:54 PM
Quote: from JMGarcia on 11:00 am on May 8, 2003
I'll agree with Fabb. Most people probably have no idea of the specifics of the tower or how high will be occupied. They probably never think it through before answering.


You're right JM, the public doesn't even know that the tower will be unoccupied at the top, nor do they know it will be a 1,776 foot SPIRE, not a 1,776 roofline.

Still, this poll concerns me, because the only reason why the LMDC supports the spire is for a concession towards Pro-Rebuilders (which we ultimately rejected) and now, the Ultra-Low Rise NIMBYS, who unlike Silverstein, arn't just concerned about people working up so high for real estate concerns, but they believe that ANY tower- be it a Space Needle clone, or occupied monolith, is a target. They're basically the "no towers, period" crowd. They've NEVER accepted the success Pro-Rebuilders have had over the last year at public hearings.

Ironically enough, if the media starts talking about how the tower is only a spire, the anti-wtb numbers in this poll would go down.

JMGarcia
May 8th, 2003, 06:10 PM
Go take the Newday poll on the same subject. Let's give them a different position to report on.

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/ny-bc-ny--attacks-redevelop0508may08,0,6278948.story?coll=nyc-topheadlines-span

NYguy
May 8th, 2003, 06:48 PM
Its a ridiculous poll, I wouldn't get worked up about it. *If the results had been the opposite, the poll would have been discarded. *Besides, even if 80% of New Yorkers were against a tallest building, what percentage of New Yorkers would actually work in the building?

TomAuch
May 8th, 2003, 06:58 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 5:48 pm on May 8, 2003
Its a ridiculous poll, I wouldn't get worked up about it. *If the results had been the opposite, the poll would have been discarded. *Besides, even if 80% of New Yorkers were against a tallest building, what percentage of New Yorkers would actually work in the building?

Still, these Ultra-Low Rise NIMBY's have Pataki's ear, and he could pressure Libeskind to drop the Freedom Tower, and pressure Silverstein not to pay for it. Although the "No Towers, Period" crowd has been quiet ever since LTTC, I think they're re-emerging, and will now try to pressure Pataki.

ZippyTheChimp
May 8th, 2003, 07:02 PM
So, do you still want to discredit Libeskind?

NYguy
May 8th, 2003, 07:32 PM
Quote: from TomAuch on 5:58 pm on May 8, 2003[brStill, these Ultra-Low Rise NIMBY's have Pataki's ear, and he could pressure Libeskind to drop the Freedom Tower, and pressure Silverstein not to pay for it. Although the "No Towers, Period" crowd has been quiet ever since LTTC, I think they're re-emerging, and will now try to pressure Pataki.

There's a greater chance of HELL freezing over. *Its just a poll, one of many that can be manipulated to get any result. *Remember all those polls that showed Fosters towers being the prefered design of the new WTC? *What happened to those polls anyway...

TomAuch
May 8th, 2003, 07:52 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 6:32 pm on May 8, 2003

Quote: from TomAuch on 5:58 pm on May 8, 2003[brStill, these Ultra-Low Rise NIMBY's have Pataki's ear, and he could pressure Libeskind to drop the Freedom Tower, and pressure Silverstein not to pay for it. Although the "No Towers, Period" crowd has been quiet ever since LTTC, I think they're re-emerging, and will now try to pressure Pataki.

There's a greater chance of HELL freezing over. *Its just a poll, one of many that can be manipulated to get any result. *Remember all those polls that showed Fosters towers being the prefered design of the new WTC? *What happened to those polls anyway...

The difference between the Foster polls and this one, is that there is a bias in many media outlets towards building small. The Anti-Rebuilding spin-doctors have the leverage in the media, and we don't.

NYguy
May 8th, 2003, 07:59 PM
The Anti-Rebuilding spin-doctors have the leverage in the media, and we don't.

We don't need it. *The pro-rebuilding spin-doctors have their leverage as well. *The New York Post, for example, is almost entirely pro-rebuilding. *Its a non-issue.

Slowly the media gets the point....(Newsday)
http://www.nynewsday.com/nyc-ellis0509,0,7704935.realaudio?coll=nyc%2Dtopheadli nes%2Dspan

DominicanoNYC
May 8th, 2003, 08:38 PM
I think that it's that people don't like how these buildings look or they're afraid of another attack. We should follow how Asia is building thier buildings. They seem very reliable in strength having the concrete center and all.

phxmania2001
May 8th, 2003, 08:52 PM
Man, people need to sit down and use their brains.

If they've already successfully destroyed one incarnation, do they really need to do it again? Chances are they wouldn't use planes again either.

Build 'em tall, baby!

NYguy
May 8th, 2003, 09:00 PM
Also, you would be surprised at how many people don't actually know that Libeskinds "freedom tower" is mostly unoccupied on the upper floors. *I'm always amazed at how many people who visit wintergarden are shocked to see the "empty" building model. *What rock have they been under?

TomAuch
May 8th, 2003, 09:23 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 8:00 pm on May 8, 2003
Also, you would be surprised at how many people don't actually know that Libeskinds "freedom tower" is mostly unoccupied on the upper floors. *I'm always amazed at how many people who visit wintergarden are shocked to see the "empty" building model. *What rock have they been under?

Under the rock of "Free Media" ;)

DominicanoNYC
May 8th, 2003, 09:40 PM
Quote: from NYguy on 8:00 pm on May 8, 2003
Also, you would be surprised at how many people don't actually know that Libeskinds "freedom tower" is mostly unoccupied on the upper floors. *I'm always amazed at how many people who visit wintergarden are shocked to see the "empty" building model. *What rock have they been under?


It's too true. I mean what has NYC come to if there's no WTB. We started building skyscrapers and now were letting China and other places in Asia take over. We can't go out without a fight. We need more 1000-footers. NYC forever!

StevenRosenow
May 9th, 2003, 04:44 AM
Quote: from DominicanoNYC on 7:38 pm on May 8, 2003
I think that it's that people don't like how these buildings look or they're afraid of another attack. We should follow how Asia is building thier buildings. They seem very reliable in strength having the concrete center and all.


More wiser words couldn't have been spoken.

We can't also forget thatAsian skyscrapers have a far more advanced elevatoring system, and instead of emergency stairwells as a primary egress route, there's what they call "Dedicated Fireman's Lifts," which are elevators in a reinforced shaft, for use by Fire Department Personnel only. *

I think that we can pressure Silverstein to raise the heights of his building limits if we raised that issue with him - albeit in a "logical" manner.

JMGarcia
May 9th, 2003, 09:16 AM
Pleasing Everyone Is One Tall Order

May 9, 2003
Newsday

Mickey Carroll probably has a point.

Terror-rattled New Yorkers aren't looking for extra trouble these days.

"I live in a tall building, I love tall buildings," said my old friend Mick, who used to toil as a reporter around here and is now director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

But Mickey hasn't lost his hack's nose for news. He and his pollster pals were wondering not long ago: Are people in New York really all that keen on recapturing the title "World's Tallest Building" from Chicago or Kuala Lumpur or whatever second-tier city happens to claim it now?

Architect Daniel Libeskind, as you might have heard, has vowed to build a 1,776-foot tower - an office building with a spire on top - at Ground Zero. The various hype materials are boldly portraying the vision as "the tallest structure in the world."

We'll get to specifics of that claim in a moment.

In the meantime, the people who talk to pollsters are responding with a resounding "No!"

"World's tallest building? Bad idea!" they say, 57 percent to 36 percent.

"Yes, we want to make a statement," Mickey Carroll was interpreting yesterday. "Yes, we're not gonna let people push us around. But why stick your finger in somebody's eye for the fun of it? Why wave a red flag? Twice now, terrorists have gone after the World Trade Center."

A sensible answer, perhaps.

But there's an even deeper question buried here, a question that makes this whole frantic race for world's tallest building seem a little silly in the end.

The question is, how would the terrorists know which building to hit?

The world's leading architects - not to mention chambers-of-commerce and freelance boosters all over the place - certainly can't seem to decide.

In fact, this whole notion of tallest building is a lot harder to pin down than most people realize. It's what the experts call a "definitional conundrum." No one has studied it harder than Hans Netten.

Netten is a wild-eyed architect and a major skyscraper buff who lives in Amsterdam. He gets credit for much of what follows.

There is, he notes, the still-raging tallest-building debate between Chicago and Kuala Lumpur: The Sears Tower (1,454 feet) or the Petronas Twin Towers (1,483 feet)? Both seemed to have bested New York's late World Trade Center, whose towers topped out at 1,368 and 1,362 feet tall.

But wait!

"The answer to this question seems so easy," Netten says. "Just measure both buildings from bottom to top, and the tallest one gets the title. Question answered, case closed, no more debate needed."

Well, not quite, Netten goes on.

Do spires count?

What about antennas?

Start including them, and you'll get different tall-ests.

And are we including only buildings with floors and walls? Or freestanding structures of any sort?

Yikes!

If we play this right, the terrorists will never get around to bombing anything again, they'll be so exhausted by the never-ending debate.

And what about the Canadians? Pretty soon, they'll be complaining, too.

The CN Tower in Toronto, the Canadians say, is 1,816 feet tall, taller than anything in New York, Chicago or Kuala Lumpur.

Fine, but is the CN Tower really a building?

It does have a restaurant and a couple of gift shops in the bulging part up top. But mostly, the CN Tower is just a concrete shaft with elevators inside.

And if you count the CN Tower, what about the KTHI-TV tower in Fargo, N.D.?

At 2,063 feet, it's nothing but a big antenna. Some purists might complain that a TV tower isn't "free-standing." And that's true. Without stabilizing cables, it would come crashing clear to the Black Hills.

But it's still pretty tall.

No one said this was going to be simple.

And please, don't get me started on offshore oil rigs. The Amerada Hess Corporation says its Baldpate Compliant Tower, standing 1,900 feet from the floor of the Gulf of Mexico, is the "tallest free-standing structure in the world."

Free-standing? Only if you don't count all that gulf water that is supporting it.

If that's not enough, there's the Seoul Tower in South Korea, which is only 777 feet tall but stands on a mountain. The Koreans count the mount, of course.

And then there's a fellow named Steven Enz. He was so disgusted with all this one-upsmanship, he tied a helium balloon to a string 3,280 feet long and started taking bows.

So now New York is looking for the World's Tallest Building?

Tallest according to whom?

Hans Netten puts it best - and simply.

"Many cities quarrel about who is the winner," he said.

Let the terrorists just try to sort that out.

Email: henican@newsday.com

Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

-----------------------------------------------

Daily News - Nothing new here but the headline is nasty.

NY.ers: Shrink towering WTC idea

By GREG GITTRICH
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Think smaller: New Yorkers fear that building the world's tallest tower at Ground Zero would provoke another terrorist attack, a new poll shows.
More than half of registered voters polled believe constructing the 1,776-foot spire designed by architect Daniel Libeskind would be a "bad idea."

"Terrorists have hit this place twice, and a majority of New Yorkers feel that building another tall building there is looking for trouble," said Maurice Carroll, director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.

The poll found 57% of New Yorkers oppose constructing the world's tallest tower, compared with 36% who support the plan.

Fifty-two percent say they would like to see something shorter built, while 39% believe building taller would be a grand statement of the city's recovery.

The poll also revealed that 58% of the city voters want Mayor Bloomberg to be the top decision-maker in the rebuilding process. Just 23% say Gov. Pataki should be in charge.

City Hall has been pushing for a greater role in rebuilding, and voters sided with the mayor even as his approval rating has fallen to 32%, a near-record low.

Still, 62% say the overall redevelopment of lower Manhattan is going "very well" or "somewhat well." By comparison, 28% think it's going "somewhat well" or "very badly."

The approval rating has declined since a March 2002 poll that showed 78% thought redevelopment was going "very well" or "somewhat well." But Carroll said the dip should not be considered significant.

When asked about the permanent memorial at Ground Zero, 70% of those polled said they favor a single tribute. Only 25% feel the memorial should include separate recognition for rescue workers.

The question of how the memorial should honor the victims has fueled an emotional debate since rebuilding officials declared in March that all the dead would be treated equally. Some families of rescue workers have lobbied for a separate tribute.

Quinnipiac surveyed 757 registered city voters between April 29 and May 5. The poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.6 percentage points.

Originally published on May 9, 2003

--------------------------------------------

I am appreciating more and more the importance of picking a symbolic height of 1776ft. Its impossible to chop even 100 feet off of it without causing a big news story. At least they can't sneak a cut in like the 250 feet the shrunk the THINK towers by.

(Edited by JMGarcia at 8:54 am on May 9, 2003)

TomAuch
May 9th, 2003, 12:40 PM
Yeah, and if the public is aware that 1,776 feet is just the spire, there won't be so much hubris about how we're just provoking Bin Laden.

We have to get that message out to the media. I could picture Reuters picking up a headline that says

"WTC tower 'Considerably Lower' than Advertised
* -1,776 is not the roofline"

Kris
May 9th, 2003, 12:57 PM
At Ground Zero, Reaction Mixed to Soaring Size

By Pete Bowles and Bryan Virasami
STAFF WRITERS

May 9, 2003

For Police Officer Brenda Santos, yesterday was an emotional day as she returned to Ground Zero for the first time since being dispatched to the scene shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attack on the World Trade Center.

"This is the first time I was able to come this close," said Santos, 31, who was loaded down with bags after shopping at Century 21. "I attempted numerous times and I wasn't able to come back ... Time heals all wounds."

Like others interviewed near the excavation site yesterday, Santos said she believes Ground Zero deserves to be rebuilt with the world's tallest building - disagreeing with 57 percent in a Quinnipiac University poll who said the proposal is a "bad idea."

"Even though they brought us down, we are going to go back even higher," the off-duty officer said. "That was a symbol of the city, the Twin Towers, and for a lot of people it was a sense of direction. They were guided by the Twin Towers."

Alex Delgado, 25, a visiting firefighter from Miami, agreed. "They should build the biggest building they possibly can," said Delgado, who was in town for a friend's wedding. "It was there once before. If I would have died there, that's what I would have wanted."

But Darrick Johnson, 56, of Staten Island, a security guard supervisor, said something shorter should be erected.

"It should be about half the size" of the 1,766-foot spire envisioned by architect Daniel Libeskind, he said. "Because if something like that happens again, not a terrorist thing, but something in the building in general, there wouldn't be so many casualties."

Deighton Harper, 24, of Brooklyn, an investment banker, said "considering what happened here" a tall structure should go up. "But let the focus be on the memorial," he added.

"We should build it bigger and better because that is what we are about," said Erik Sinhart, 25, of Woodside. "New York is the center of the earth, so in my opinion we should have the best of everything, including the tallest building."


Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

Fabb
May 9th, 2003, 01:43 PM
They should build the biggest building they possibly can

We should build it bigger

Big as well as tall ? That's madness !
Don't they know that anemic buildings are trendy these days ?

JMGarcia
May 9th, 2003, 02:04 PM
Don't they know that anemic buildings are trendy these days ?
I thought heroin chic is passe. ;)

Fabb
May 9th, 2003, 02:08 PM
Heroin chic ?
You lost me.
But I don't want to know, it could harm my fragile, little mind.

Lightning Homer
May 9th, 2003, 02:23 PM
Yeah ! Today's time for burgers, cola and... DOUGHNUTS, yum ! :cheesy:

NYguy
May 11th, 2003, 05:14 PM
Time for more lunacy from the anti-rebuilding crowd. *I've read this article more than once, and still can't figure out how this guy's story relates to the World Trade Center. *Maybe someone else can, and will explain it.
.................................................. .................................

(Newsday)

Higher To Soar, Farther To Fall *
May 11, 2003

Vicki was a heavy young woman who worked in the Municipal Building, on one of the top floors. She had plants on the windowsill alongside her desk and took much care of them. One day she did not come to work because she had tried to commit suicide by going out the 15th-floor window of her family's apartment in the Greenpoint Houses.

When she came back to work, after a long convalescence, she put her coat on a hanger, said hello to people as if nothing had happened. The others in her department acted the same with her.

Then she walked to the windowsill, 12 stories above Centre Street. "Vicki!" somebody screamed. The nearest man grabbed her. The whole office was up and grabbing and tugging her away from the window. "I wanted to water my plants," Vicki said.

For the rest of the day, people barely worked. They were like alert border guards waiting for her to make a move.

I think of this today because of the plans for the World Trade Center replacement, a 70-story building and a 1,776-foot spire, the sheer insanity of it raising cold fear, for the vision of being on the top floor of that building, attempting to hold a job, and then we all happen to look out and see in the sky, the great wide beautiful sky, a plane.

Do you sit there, confident of life, or do you do what everybody else is doing, and that is running, running, running for the exit sign?

In Vicki's case, from that first scare on, the plants were attended to long before she arrived in the morning. One woman had to be in the office early anyway, and she took care of them.

Once, the woman did not get there early and in came Vicki, on time, and she walked right to the window 12 stories over Centre Street and the only two people in the office shrieked and ran for her.

That did it. Everybody on the office signed a petition requesting that Vicki be transferred to a job on the second floor. Vicki seemed oblivious. While everybody waited for her to be reassigned, she kept trying to get to her plants by the window. Soon, they needed an armed guard to keep her away from her plants 12 stories over Centre Street.

Vicki then went home and that night she waited until her sister wasn't looking and opened the window of that 15th-floor apartment and went into the Greenpoint night.

There was a crash down on the street that was heard for a block as her body went through the roof of a vinyl-topped car. She went through the roof and into the car.

The first cop on the scene did not want to look. He had to be prodded and then he tiptoed up to the car, expecting a mess.

Here was Vicki sitting upright in the back seat and babbling.

They took her to the old Greenpoint Hospital. I got there to start the story at about 10 a.m. There were cops in the lobby arguing with the cop who had been first on the scene. He was on overtime, so he didn't care if they fought forever.

"She's upstairs," he said again.

"That woman is in a thousand pieces," another cop said.

"Bet me she's upstairs," the first cop said.

"Impossible," one of them said.

"Go up and look for yourself," the cop said.

"Never."

I believed the cop. I went up a flight or two and opened the door to a ward. I paused. What if the cop was wrong? I had to get myself ready for some horror. Then I stepped in.

Here she was, sitting up in bed. Her black hair was uncombed but aside from that there were no tubes or monitors or bandages. When I got to the bedside, she reached out and threw her arms around my neck.

"What's your name?" she said.

"Jimmy."

"I love you, Jimmy."

"That's nice. Now, let me... " I tried to get out of the grip. Instead she shifted in bed and threw her shoulders into the grip.

"I love you all my life, Jimmy."

A nurse had to free me.

"Fifteen stories," the nurse said. "We can't believe it. They say that the car roof can save you. I guess so."

"Please don't leave me," Vicki said. "You saved my life. I have to talk to you."

"I have to go," I said.

"Then I'm coming with you." She started struggling out of bed.

"No, no. Here. You can call me."

I gave her my home phone number. Yes, I did. I am a smart, streetwise guy. I gave her my home phone number.

She called my house six times the next day.

"Collect from Vicki."

"I love you, Jimmy."

She called four times. She called five times a day. She then called me collect every day for the next year. The full year. "I love you, Jimmy." She was in one mental facility after the other and she always was being killed by a monster or stabbed. In the beginning, a doctor had given me Vicki's sister's number. I never used it. All calls were collect. Finally, as it had to happen, one day she called and my wife took it and Vicki told her:

"I love you, I love you. You filthy, lousy... "

I got on. "I love you. Jimmy, you are the worst... "

We had the phone company put a block on collect calls. I was not going to let her force me to change my number.

The phone rang once before the block took effect. It rang once all day every day until our nerves quit. Finally, I had the phone number changed.

Yes, it was sad, but there was no other way.

I didn't think about her. But as I looked at this imbecilic tower at the World Trade Center, right away there was the vision of Vicki, flying out of a window at the new trade center and heading down for a car top and calling into the sky, "I love you, Jimmy ... you are the one worst ... "

http://www.newsday.com/media/thumbnails/columnist/2001-05/369948.gif
Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

ZippyTheChimp
May 12th, 2003, 09:52 AM
:confused:

So Jimmy, me boy. Been bendin' the elbow, have ya?

NYatKNIGHT
May 12th, 2003, 02:21 PM
:biggrin: You nailed it.

This story is the fear factor personified. Vicki's co-workers can't pretend nothing happened, and are fearful it will happen again. And in fact, it does. Jimmy is haunted by it. (Then off to the bars, as Zippy suggested).

Some people opposed to rebuilding a replica of the twin towers have used this argument; that it would simply be too eerie to see them again, let alone work up high in them. That you simply would not be able to get the image out of your mind of what happened there.

Though it's entirely different, this Libeskind tower evokes the same skittishness and dread for some people. I'm not sure if there is anything to be done to convince them that these feelings will subside in time, but they certainly ought to be aware that their emotions aren't universally shared.

Obvioulsy the 1776 feet, and the "world's tallest building" label evoke a tower much taller than the twins were. To ease their fears, perhaps the city should come right out and tell everyone that this building isn't really as tall as they make it out to be. Or better yet, go ahead and make this building as tall everyone thinks it is. The population seems to have braced themselves for something supertall. Put that roof at 1776'.

Lightning Homer
May 12th, 2003, 04:10 PM
"Put that roof at 1776'."

Bloodywellsaid, couldn't say more...

TLOZ Link5
May 12th, 2003, 05:27 PM
Does Jimmy Breslin have an e-mail address listed with his article?

I'd like to give him a little piece of my mind, so to speak :)

ZippyTheChimp
May 12th, 2003, 05:28 PM
I know it's not scientific, but outside of places like this forum, and the various pro and con groups, I sense complete ambivalence about the height of the buildings. The poll didn't ask a general question, but a specific question about height - reminding people of the issue.

In Tribeca and BPC, there are several forums with a wide range of topics, but not one about building height.
People ask me, "How's the neighborhood?" never "How high will the buildings be?"

Yeah, make the roof 1776.

ZippyTheChimp
May 12th, 2003, 05:31 PM
And there's gotta be an outdoor observatory, some sort of break in the facade.

NyC MaNiAc
May 12th, 2003, 05:34 PM
If they put the roof at 1776' I'll back down and admit the loss of the twins. I mean, seriously...we would be getting the "world's tallest building..."

And not every city and their people get that every day. :)

NyC MaNiAc

Lightning Homer
May 12th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Yep ! A building, a real one, not a spire or TV antenna...
And a huge flagpole on the top !

NYguy
May 12th, 2003, 07:22 PM
this Libeskind tower evokes the same skittishness and dread for some people. I'm not sure if there is anything to be done to convince them that these feelings will subside in time, but they certainly ought to be aware that their emotions aren't universally shared.

Exactly. *A lot of people aren't even aware that Libeskind's tower is mostly unoccupied on the upper levels. *They hear "world's tallest" and immediately think of a 150-200 story tower.