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ZippyTheChimp
March 12th, 2003, 08:00 AM
Congratulations to our new moderators, Stern and Christian.
I have always found their posts to be insightful and sometimes, sharply humorous.

(I know, I'm shamelessly self-serving)

NoyokA
March 12th, 2003, 09:32 AM
And thankyou for the compliment. I give this site alot of my time, I only wish I could devote so much time to my own.

Kris
March 12th, 2003, 02:13 PM
Flattery will get you nowhere, Zippy. You've been a very bad chimp.

Gulcrapek
March 12th, 2003, 02:16 PM
Yeah congrats! Here finally are moderators with the reasoning and ability to moderate, I can only pity those at the TrekBBS and others...

(I've been a bad crapek?)

NoyokA
March 12th, 2003, 02:30 PM
For those of you who dont know I had moderated my own New York forum. Considering my daily traffic Im guessing alot of you are oblivious. It was popular after the Sept. 11th attacks. But after I relaunched my website it hasnt been posted at. Moderating a section of this forum feels good in that way.



And for all those New York skyscraper nerds I will have all buildings over 250 feet at my website by April, courtesy Marshall Gerometta.

(Edited by Stern at 2:31 pm on Mar. 12, 2003)

DominicanoNYC
March 12th, 2003, 04:01 PM
Where is your website?

dbhstockton
March 12th, 2003, 04:12 PM
Click on the little red house icon on top of his posts, or look at his profile.

DominicanoNYC
March 12th, 2003, 07:20 PM
Thanks and by the way ppl. can still become moderator for sections like Beyond the City right?

Kris
March 12th, 2003, 09:07 PM
Email Edward. He's on vacation though.

Fabb
March 13th, 2003, 03:33 AM
Can we use bad English while he's away ? (please)

Kris
March 13th, 2003, 06:56 AM
We'll make an exception for you, because we know you can't help it. ;)

(Edited by Christian Wieland at 8:24 am on Mar. 13, 2003)

NYatKNIGHT
March 13th, 2003, 09:29 AM
You shoulda scene that won coming Fabb.

Fabb
March 13th, 2003, 02:53 PM
Nope.
I always let Christian surprise me. Never anticipate or you kill the fun.

But, I'm disappointed in him because he posted at 6:56 am and edited 88 minutes later. That indicates afterthoughts. A moderator should react fast and accurately.

You got much to learn young Jedi.

Gulcrapek
March 13th, 2003, 03:57 PM
aiiiiiiiiight wes blowin dis joint now HOLLA

NoyokA
March 13th, 2003, 04:16 PM
and your going to have to calm down...

Gulcrapek
March 13th, 2003, 04:39 PM
You're no fun.

NoyokA
March 13th, 2003, 05:04 PM
My crazy days are over. sorry...

(Edited by Stern at 5:05 pm on Mar. 13, 2003)

Fabb
March 13th, 2003, 05:23 PM
I hope I didn't open Pandora's box...

DominicanoNYC
March 13th, 2003, 05:42 PM
How long will Edward be on vacation

NoyokA
March 13th, 2003, 05:59 PM
Edward will "be on a cruise ship starting this Saturday for a week, far from the internet."

His life is somewhat shrouded in mystery, but that's his personal buisness. As one of his cronies, I can only speculate its the good life....

Gulcrapek
March 13th, 2003, 06:05 PM
Lucky ****. Cruise ship. ****

NoyokA
March 13th, 2003, 06:44 PM
Hey you're lucky I have no control over forum issues ;)

As a moderator I will remove any implied swearing, not for principle, but to expand upon thoughts.

(Edited by Stern at 6:45 pm on Mar. 13, 2003)

Kris
March 13th, 2003, 07:19 PM
Fabb, I just added the emoticon in case you would be offended. You're sensitive and I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

ZippyTheChimp
March 26th, 2003, 08:20 PM
I gotta start paying attention...
and I need to change this POST-IT note on my monitor:

* * * *"Be nice to Stern, Christian, and NYatKNIGHT"

* * * * * * * * * * *:biggrin:

Bennie B
March 27th, 2003, 12:09 AM
¡¡dbhstockton too woo hoo!! *way to go guys!!

Fabb
March 27th, 2003, 05:53 AM
I don't want to be nice.
The moderators might outnumber the regular forumers soon.

Now, what could be amusing with this situation ?
Us vs them ?
Or : let's have them fight and see who wins.

ZippyTheChimp
March 27th, 2003, 07:05 AM
We could proclaim you the Anti Moderator. A battle of biblical proportions.

I'm running out of post-it notes.

amigo32
March 27th, 2003, 09:25 AM
:) *It is very probable that we have all disagreed with each other*at some point in time.
So let's continue to do so.
It makes for a great family.

(Edited by amigo32 at 9:39 am on Mar. 27, 2003)

Kris
March 27th, 2003, 09:36 AM
Anyone interested in Real Estate?

Fabb
March 27th, 2003, 12:33 PM
Yes, my good friend Donald.

Kris
March 27th, 2003, 02:55 PM
Call him up.

NYatKNIGHT
March 27th, 2003, 03:11 PM
Quote: from ZippyTheChimp on 8:20 pm on Mar. 26, 2003
I gotta start paying attention...
and I need to change this POST-IT note on my monitor:

* * * *"Be nice to Stern, Christian, and NYatKNIGHT"

* * * * * * * * * * *:biggrin:
Forget nice, just send cash.

* * * * * * * * * ** :cool:

Gulcrapek
March 27th, 2003, 03:53 PM
But then we'd have to rename it The Trump Real Estate Section.

Fabb
March 27th, 2003, 04:35 PM
Good idea.
Well, maybe he's already one of us.
Maybe he's one of the moderators...

I'll ask him when we have dinner later.

NyC MaNiAc
April 23rd, 2003, 11:30 PM
So, what are the requirements to being a moderator, Edward? I am quite interested in being an assistance in any section of the forum you need help in.

P.S. I will try not to abuse the "Moderator" powers. Ha. Seriously, do you have a "job" opening?

Freedom Tower
August 22nd, 2003, 10:07 PM
I would like to point out an abuse of moderating power that has been going on for quite some time now. I posted something in the Guantanamo Bay forum in Anything Goes. My exact post was:

Let's not forget why they were put there in the first place. Anyone in Guantanamo in some way or another threatened the lives of the troops in Afghanistan. They were either detained for shooting at the troops, or doing something clearly dangerous. They weren't just arrested for being in Afghanistan. If that was the case there'd be millions of prisoners in Guantanamo. And anyone who would shoot at our troops in Afghanistan was either Taliban or terrorist, so should be locked up anyway. It's ridiculous that people who obviously in one form or another (terrorist, or taliban) killed innocent people are being treated this nicely. Not only do they eat three meals a day and have fresh water, but they get prayer time, doctors visits, etc. Homeless people in the USA don't have some of the things these terrorists do. Not to mention, if they were released and then found to be dangerous what harm they could cause us. Hey, 2 years isn't too long to be holding someone who could potentially assist in the killing of thousands of innocent people. Give it a rest and stop defending terrorists.

Basically that was just an argument disagreeing with Christian's posts. A while later two undisclosed membors told me they were surprised my post wasnt deleted, because their similar posts had been deleted. Well, a few hours later all those posts had been deleted. Then a while later I received a threatening PM from Christian Wieland stating:

"Tell me, young idiot, do you want to get banned?"

This is abusing moderator powers. I had done nothing wrong. Simply because I disagreed with Christian my posts were deleted. I now may also get banned for it. Am I not allowed to have an opinion?

Kris
August 22nd, 2003, 10:35 PM
That isn't the post that prompted my PM. If you think you're going to make a case with dishonest bullshit, think again. A brief but sufficient explanation for the deletions is provided in the thread in question.

Freedom Tower
August 23rd, 2003, 06:44 PM
Then may I ask what did prompt your disrespectful PM to me? I also would like you to point out what is wrong with my post. Is that so much to ask?

Jasonik
August 26th, 2003, 12:25 PM
Some rule suggestions for the 'nothing goes' forum section:

1. *No sarcasm
2. *No poking fun
3. *No criticism of the moderator
4. *No member critique of posted articles
5. *No dissenting opinions, unless aimed at the USA


Also an explanation of, "...nationalistic fever that isn't tolerated here. " would be helpful to those of us who seem to unwittingly invoke heavyhanded moderation.

Kris
August 26th, 2003, 01:06 PM
There is a topic named Section Rules in Anything Goes, which has been created in advance to end the bitching. I will reopen the thread as soon as I have the time to write content for it. So no need to post baloney here.

FT, I think you know the reason for the PM. If you don't, I can't help you.

Jasonik
August 26th, 2003, 02:15 PM
I posted here so others can view my post for a change without it being deleted first. *The topic is moderators, and I am speaking of none other than you Christian. *

BTW it's only baloney if posted in your forum, here it's sarcastic criticism, something clearly beyond your grasp. *Sarcasm and irony can be offensive, but certainly not uncivilized. *If I am overstepping my bounds here I would like to hear it from other moderators and forum members; I can take criticism.

Kris
August 26th, 2003, 09:02 PM
I know what irony and sarcasm are. They imply criticism and I stated that yours was baloney, anywhere - I will explain why in Section Rules in Anything Goes. Get it? You may think your vacuous pedantry is the height of sophistication, but it is as common as the crudest vulgarity.

I also know pretentious windbags depend on an audience, which they believe they deserve, convinced that their issues hold important universal significance. And you're obviously insecure to the point of not bearing being ignored. So I sort of imagined why you posted here.

Well, guess what? I and this forum don't owe you anything. Moreover, there's only an audience, not a jury, and few seem to care. Whatever is said here will not determine the outcome of your pathetic attempt to gain respect. Perhaps you should know that chris - who at least had the sense to follow the proper procedure - complained to me, then Edward, who sided with me after a discussion. Therefore it's somewhat surprising and certainly pointless that chris keeps performing his charade. As your case is basically the same, I'm not obliged to another justification.

I will however make clarifications for the rest of the forum in order to avoid any confusion, but I'm in no hurry - I'll try to formulate rules by the end of the week. Not to worry, you'll receive your little moment of semi-public attention (besides this one, thanks for wasting my time); but I doubt you'll enjoy it. So don't be impatient.

(I intended to use the thread you had started as an opportunity to make those clarifications. Unfortunately you began spewing venom, so I removed it. You don't have a thing to teach about civility; cut the crap. I expect you to be a bit smarter from now on.)

Freedom Tower
August 30th, 2003, 01:37 PM
I just posted in the "Anything Goes" and under "Current Status of War on Terror". I posted the article that can be found here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96086,00.html
As is obvious, the article is all facts and isn't left or right wing. It is also extremely on topic for the war on terror. It was deleted by Christian. I did not repost it. However I sent Christian a PM asking why it was deleted. He still has not responded. Christian, we don't think you owe us anything, except for a little respect. That article was just facts of what is going on. I think it is fair to say that in this case you were abusing your powers. I'm not complaining about nothing here. People are complaining so much because you are treating us badly. I really found no basis for that post being deleted. I think it really is a shame that you go so far as to delete anything I post on the war on terror without even reading it. I know you didn't read it because it was deleted within a minute or so. This is really quite immature. I am not even trying to insult you, I'd just like a fair shot to post articles without being harassed.

LF22
August 30th, 2003, 07:43 PM
This is very interesting. The fox news article that you alledgedly posted was done in a professional manner and had no specific political undertones. If what you say is true, then Christian is obvoiusly not fit to moderate the forum. If you feel discriminated against by Christian maybe you should PM Edward about it. I'm just wondering, are private messages moderated?

Freedom Tower
August 30th, 2003, 08:25 PM
I don't belive PMs are moderated. Thank you for being fair LF22. I know many people refuse to take a stand on these issues out of fear. Thank you for checking out my link to see for yourself that the article wasn't biased. I hope more people will see that what I posted was a professional article. I reposted a similar one in the same topic because Foxnews came out with an updated article. Hopefully that one will not be deleted. We shall see. That article, you will find, is also professional.

Kris
August 30th, 2003, 08:40 PM
The topic is the general status of the fight against terror, not more or less related daily developments. The thread would now be a few pages longer and not any richer had I left FT's articles, which you can read in the news. It's a place for critical analysis, not one to gather the latest partial and positive information.

You are so patient, FT. You waited so long for a reply before posting here that you must have been avid to show off scandalous evidence that would surely cause a revolt. Apparently you at least duped someone. You did repost the article, twice. Righteous indignation, I suppose.

"People are complaining so much because you are treating us badly." With respect to Anything Goes, the people in question are FT, Jasonik, chris and others who have been banned. Should I be worried?

Kris
August 30th, 2003, 09:45 PM
And a third time. Dumb as hell.

Freedom Tower
August 30th, 2003, 09:46 PM
Great, I just posted again before reading this. The point of posting there a daily update was to show the war in afghanistan hasn't ended. It shows that even though people criticize and say we forgot about afghanistan, we are still working to keep that country free of taliban and al qaeda. Because recently there have been few developments in Afghanistan, I decided to post that since it was the first news in months on the country. Christian, in regards to your question, you shouldn't be worried about anything as long as you are fair. If you are biased I'm sure complaints will pop up in this section. In addition, because I sent you that PM long before posting the article a second time and hadn't received a response from that PM even though another one of my posts was deleted, I was assuming you were being stubborn and ignoring me. Seriously though, you don't consider it important to show that the "status" of the war on terror in afghanistan is ongoing?

Freedom Tower
August 30th, 2003, 09:48 PM
I agree. It is extremely dumb of you to delete my post for a third time. I just explained why it was important.

Kris
August 30th, 2003, 10:03 PM
Thanks to your dishonesty, disrespect and sheer stupidity, you should be on your way out. My question was a rhetorical one.

Freedom Tower
August 31st, 2003, 11:37 AM
MY DISRESPECT! haha. how many PMs have you sent me calling me an idiot? How many times have you said stuff like "Dumb as Hell"? And it must be my stupidity that realizes new actions in afghanistan are part of the status of the war on terror. And dishonesty!? Phew. You are the master of that Christian. If you can "honestly" say that you are just not out to get people supporting Bush than you are more dishonest than anyone. No matter what I post supporting Bush, you almost always find a reason to delete it. That time it was just supporting the war on terror, which you should in no shape or form be against. And i dont care if your question was rhetorical. I was merely pointing out that Jasonik, Chris, and I all have had problems with you because you disrespected us all. We are not out to get you, but you are definately out to get us. I don't understand why you can't just let us be and give it a rest. What did I personally do to get you so angry?

By the way, I'm not even going to argue this with you anymore. If you have a problem with me or my posts why don't you send me a civilized PM. Not some PM warning you will ban me, or criticizing me. Send me a professional PM stating why you are disgruntled. I have sent you many respectful PMs requesting information on what I have done wrong. You have replied to none of them. I don't know if you have a communication problem, or are just looking to get me into trouble, but try and be fair for a change. It would be nice if you'd do this more professionally. In my opinion, you are degrading the quality of this forum with your relentless anti-bush babble, your harassment of people you don't like, and your disrespectful nature. I am now asking you nicely to stop harassing me.

(Edited by Freedom Tower at 11:42 am on Aug. 31, 2003)

Jasonik
September 2nd, 2003, 12:16 PM
Christian Wieland Posted on 8:40 pm on Aug. 30, 2003

"It's a place for critical analysis, not one to gather the latest partial and positive information."
*****
Is the critical analysis spoken of here only tolerated if critical of the current administration? *

If the forums are off limits to critical analysis of the positions stated within them, at least be honest about it. *Don't masquerade as impartial and unbiased, when in fact moderator authority is used to control content by attempting to discount, discredit, and discourage free exchange of ideas.

As I have brought up before, the title 'Anything Goes' is misleading if an intolerant agenda underpins all moderation. *Perhaps a title like 'Christian's Corner' would be more accurate if such a narrow spectrum of content is permitted. *I am not against this designation, I am for calling it what it is, and right now, anything does not appear to go.

Kris
September 2nd, 2003, 02:01 PM
Edward has warned FT that he would be banned if he kept posting his trash, which only the most gullible members will believe it isn't. Do you need a personal notification?

Jasonik
September 2nd, 2003, 02:48 PM
Still waiting for the section rules, and a fair stake in the gullible members' fodder.

Kris
September 2nd, 2003, 02:54 PM
Keep waiting for the former.

Edward
May 28th, 2007, 07:31 PM
I would like to welcome our new moderator in 4 years, Rapunzel (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/member.php?u=8869).

infoshare
May 28th, 2007, 08:30 PM
Welcome;and congratulations to you Rapunzel.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7854/tinsight2ob7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

pianoman11686
May 28th, 2007, 10:02 PM
Been a long time comin'. Congrats, Rap. :D

BrooklynRider
May 28th, 2007, 10:05 PM
Congrats! We have the best moderators around - fair, thoughtful, and working seemlessly without bravado. I trust you'll meet Edward's very high standards. May the force be with you!

lofter1
May 28th, 2007, 10:35 PM
Congrats, Rap ...

(do you have your own infraction rules?)

Punzie
May 29th, 2007, 01:27 PM
Hey everyone, thanks for the booster.


(do you have your own infraction rules?)

Yes, as a matter of fact. Any member who makes fun of my pet cats will be subject to a... hissy fit. Repeated offenses will be subject to... repeated hissy fits. Other than that, Edward rules my rules.

clubBR
May 29th, 2007, 01:39 PM
Cool! Rapunzel is a Moderator! I know I've only been here for a couple of months but seeing "moderator" under Rapunzels name seems wierd
hahaha good luck & congradulations

Alonzo-ny
May 29th, 2007, 04:17 PM
How does one become a moderator out of interest?

macreator
May 29th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Congratulations Rapunzel! :)

Front_Porch
May 29th, 2007, 05:32 PM
A welcome addition!

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 09:30 AM
Rap.

Seriously.

You need to back off a few steps. I know you are trying to help, but you are starting to get very intrusive.

I know you mean well, but seeing posts moved all over, deleted and otherwise altered is very frustrating.

I don't know what else to say without it coming out as insulting, which is not the intent of this post. Suffice to say I think moderator moderation is my request.

Punzie
June 20th, 2007, 09:50 AM
Note: Ninja posted this ^^ right after I deleted his post -- a deletion that was Zippy's new policy on this thread:

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171302&postcount=61

Punzie
June 20th, 2007, 10:52 AM
The threads that you've authored, to which you are referring, have the following characteristics:

- Non-descriptive titles (unhelpful for online searches).

- Links that break almost immediately

- No text of the "leading article" to be discussed.

- Little or no followup/update from you.

- Posted in the incorrect forum.

One example is your "Not so fast there, Skippy..." thread. Here's my response:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171323&postcount=4


None of this would be a problem if you answered my PMs addressing these threads. They're good subject matter and we could fix them up. But instead of answering my past PMs, you are first publicly posting your dissatisfaction now.

I'll make a deal with you, Ninja. We'll work together, through PM, to revive/revamp the topics in question.

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2007, 10:59 AM
Rap.

Seriously.

You need to back off a few steps. I know you are trying to help, but you are starting to get very intrusive.I read your post in the Trash Bin; any one of the moderators would have deleted it.

You did exactly what I wanted to stop: Get in the last word.

I made the point about the air freshener as objectively as I could.

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 11:21 AM
I know what you are saying, but it is not just this.

I am expressing my discontent. I am FULLY aware of what the rules are, but I am also aware of what this place has been like since I joined.

I had two posts up that were appropriately named. One was a statement of how people were apprehensive about Nanotechnology, that was NOT about it specifically. The link was dead and removed (instead of being asked to be updated). I had no way of updating it w/o an idea of where it came from in the first place, so now the thread is dead.

The name was also changed. I did not WANT a thread on Nanotechnology. My point was the misinformed reaction of the public. A general statement, not a specific one. The same went for my vaguely associated camera thread. The original had a dead link that instead of being reminded of, it was simply edited and moved and renamed.

I feel like my own thoughts and property are now subject to change at the discrimination of the board.

While this has always been somewhat the case, I feel it more-so now and quite frankly, I feel invaded.

I really do not feel like posting anymore, which is a shame because I like this site, and recommend it to many friends and colleagues.

I know that some semblance of order needs to be kept here. I am just letting you know that that effort is starting to encroach into at least my own sense of intellectual property.


As for the post, like I said, if you had an objection to where the thread was headed, you could have removed the flame-bait that MTG placed there rather than force me to read it (by keeping it there. Don't start with the classic "noone forced you to read it" stuff. If it is on a thread I am reading, I will read it. If it is left up there, you are, in a sense, making me read it...) and warn me against replying.




Like I said, I know you guys mean well, but I seriously feel violated. :(

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 11:23 AM
And Rap, I got back from vacation after your PM.

I went to each of the threads linked and posted on them.

You didn't read my responses? Don't say that I should have responded to the PM when I responded to your posts on each of the threads you linked.

Punzie
June 20th, 2007, 01:33 PM
I had two posts up that were appropriately named.
The idea behind descriptive titles: people can find the subject matter when they do a title search. Thus, you did not appropriately name your threads. Witness:

(1) "People are idiots" - originally posted in the News Forum. Your first post indicates that the appropriate title is more like: "The public's misconceptions about nanotechnology." Also, since it's a feature/opinion piece, it belongs in Anything Goes.

(2) "Not so fast there, Skippy..." - originally posted in the News Forum. Your first post indicates the appropriate title is more like: "Two car thiefs caught by long lense camera users." Your slant: it's 'amazing' how criminals could be caught this way -- and, in general, how many useful and important things can be accomplished this way. Again, it's feature/opinion and belongs in Anything Goes.

I told you in PMs that I gave your threads temporary titles. I'm still waiting for you to give me permanent titles for them. (Perhaps the ones I just suggested?)

You are now saying that your threads are "dead" and that I was the one who killed them. In fact, I brought them back to life. The subject matter in both of them is inherently interesting, (my opinion, anyway). I think that you're going to see more people taking interest and posting on them. (If you'd prefer not to be the author, however, that's your right, and I can make alternative arrangements.)

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 01:58 PM
I have said what I have said.

I do not like your style of moderation Rap. Take it or leave it.

BrooklynRider
June 20th, 2007, 02:01 PM
I think there is some subjective moving of posts going on. I think the forum needs to remain objective and that there ought to be a measure of respect for the fact that this forum is driven by adults.

My issue is the movement of news threads like "Gay Devastion Bomb" and "Affluence and Class." In both cases, the ORIGINAL post was clearly news. My understanding is that the threads were moved because of the responses they generated. In the "gay bomb" thread, every post was directly tied to the original post, even if folks did find it humorous and responded in kind.

Nothing in either thread went off topic. If it does, my experience indicates a moderator would step in and MODERATE to get it back on topic. Moving it is not "moderating."

I appreciate that Rapunzel has taken her role to heart and I know moderators do a lot of work around here. I can't speak directly to Ninja's concerns or necessarily offer support there, but I think the sudden change in direction ought to be reconsidered. I think Rap should be given a break as she gets up to speed, but I think we need to consider that, before her appointment, changes in the forum were suggested in threads and members allowed to comment on them. I think the movement of threads due to topic "responses" is extremely arbitrary and needs to be addressed in TOS. Most people here are pretty logical in there posting of threads in sub-forums. The moves are not.

ManhattanKnight
June 20th, 2007, 03:36 PM
New moderator candidate:

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 03:40 PM
You forgot the bread........

NoyokA
June 20th, 2007, 04:13 PM
As for the post, like I said, if you had an objection to where the thread was headed, you could have removed the flame-bait that MTG placed there rather than force me to read it (by keeping it there. Don't start with the classic "noone forced you to read it" stuff. If it is on a thread I am reading, I will read it. If it is left up there, you are, in a sense, making me read it...) and warn me against replying.

MTG didn't post anything wrong, that's why his post was allowed to stay. He simply stated the truth, while one might not like to be reminded that they made a mistake in reading a post and perhaps over-reacted because of it, we do not moderate for such reasons, it is your responsibility to take it in jest and let it drop, or if you insist to have the last word to refrain from personal insults.

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 04:35 PM
I did not personally insult him.

He was not able to take my original comment with a grain of salt and just deal with the issue. He comes in 11 posts later, after things seem to have settled, and starts poking.

"I don't know what your problem is" is OFFENSIVE to me and is baiting Stern. How would you like me to address you in a similar manner inferring a topic that was previously a hot button with you?


Ninjahedge, you go ballistic every time smoking is mentioned. Your ridiculous, over-the-top grandstanding about smoking is, at this point, ridiculous. Someone mentions smoking, and you're typing so many symbols
"&^*@&*(@#&*" that I can imagine the steam coming out of your ears and fingertips as you type. RELAX. It's the advice you've given to some of us.
I've said it before, and I will say it again... the idiotic bit about air fresheners and smoke smells that last until -forever- is just OVER THE TOP.

How many times can you say IDIOT to someone before they get offended?

"Don't take this the wrong way, but you are an idiot, what you say is idiotic, and you have nothing to contribute but idiocy :smileyface gif: "

It is VERY subjective. You said you wanted to keep things on topic. I requested you remove the bait.

I see that carries no weight.

So does that mean I am allowed to bait people so long as it is subtle enough not to raise your (moderator) ire but enough to raise theirs?

Rhetorical question. Just something to think about.

The main issue is, and will be however, that I believe that Rap is pushing too hard too fast. This is not the kind of reaction I have seen in the 3+ years I have been here. As a MEMBER OF THE COMMUNITY I am expressing my discontent.

This is not an evil I am trying to castigate. I am just expressing discontent and asking for moderation in the moderation of this forum.

NoyokA
June 20th, 2007, 04:56 PM
MTG perhaps baited you (it worked) but he carefully worded his post so that nothing was blatantly insulting. You can do the same, infact you did with Scandenfrau. I'd rather we all got along, but I know in reality that's not going to happen. My advice is to state your point of view in a most unconfrontational manner, as such these problems will circumvent and your point of view will be held with a greater regard.

As far as the changing of thread titles, I rarely if ever change thread titles. From what I've read Rapunzel is anxious to answer you're concerns and reach a happy understanding. She has offered to discuss the matter privately and I'm sure a solution that satisfies both of you can be reached.

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 05:13 PM
My only worry is not to receive a lengthy explanation detailing the individual rules and how she perceives them to be. (Which I have received).

I am not branding her a criminal. I am just telling her how I feel. I have posted my feelings on the other threads, but they seemed to fall off into nowhere (for whatever reason).

I am not the 'owner' of this forum, and I do not profess to be. I do not make the rules, I am not a moderator. But, after being here for so long in the sub-forums that I habitate, I think that her enthusiasm needs to be tempered a bit.

I am expressing this now only after the MTG and thread deletion motivated me enough to do so. I am not expressing some right I have to do anything in regards to that thread, but when a bunch of small things happen, sometimes they can add up.

I am not asking for her to leave. Nothing of the sort. She can also attest I have not done so in PM's or any other manner. I am just trying to get this in open discourse so that everyone is aware of this and can possibly let her know what they think in a mannerthat does not seem to be overly critical or aggressive.

I did not want to PM you, Zip, Ed and the others to express my concerns, as that would be seen as being rather belligerant. I agree that this is a little strong coming out in "public", but I believed this would be the best way to let you all know.


I would just like her to be another extension of this forum. Not a mirror image, mind you, but similar to those that have gone before her. Who better to address it than the ones I would like her to be more akin to?

That being said. Message delivered, ad nauseam.

We now return you to your normal whatever-you-were-doing program. ;)

Punzie
June 20th, 2007, 06:13 PM
In total, I edited and/or moved three threads authored by Ninja because they had these characteristics:


- Non-descriptive titles (unhelpful for online searches).

- Links that break almost immediately

- No text of the "leading article" to be discussed.

- Little or no followup/update from you.

- Posted in the incorrect forum.
If moderators (in this case, I) continue to let Ninja let post this way, they must let everybody post this way.

(100% Rhetorical) Question: What happens when everybody posts on a message board this way?

lofter1
June 20th, 2007, 06:37 PM
my twopence ...

RE: Non-descriptive titles (unhelpful for online searches)

The titling of threads is IMO the area that needs (needed) attention above all else -- and not just for Ninja.

BUT ...

It seems something is wrong with the SEARCH Function ...


For example if I do an advanced search and type in the "key word" as "Fifth" the search tells me:
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different termsAnd if I type in as "key words": "Fifth Avenue" I get pages of results (seemingly 84 threads total), all with "Avenue" in the title but only some which contain both words "Fifth Avenue" in the title.

And if I type in "Third" I get "Sorry - no matches". Same with "First" and "Tenth".

So one might think that any key word with 5 letters or less would result in "Sorry - no matches".

But that is not so ...

If I type in "Sixth" I get loads of matches. Same with "Ninth".

Wondering why this is -- as it really is not helpful when searching NYC (and ssems to lack consistency) ...

FINALLY -- When typing in a two-letter "key word" for a search (GV for Greenwich Village) the following was the response, where in it claims that a 3-letter search should yield results (but my experience tells me otherwise):





vBulletin Message
The search term you specified (GV) is under the minimum word length (3)
and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

ablarc
June 20th, 2007, 06:39 PM
I think there is some subjective moving of posts going on. I think the forum needs to remain objective and that there ought to be a measure of respect for the fact that this forum is driven by adults...

Nothing in either thread went off topic. If it does, my experience indicates a moderator would step in and MODERATE to get it back on topic. Moving it is not "moderating."

I appreciate that Rapunzel has taken her role to heart and I know moderators do a lot of work around here. I can't speak directly to Ninja's concerns or necessarily offer support there, but I think the sudden change in direction ought to be reconsidered. I think Rap should be given a break as she gets up to speed, but I think we need to consider that, before her appointment, changes in the forum were suggested in threads and members allowed to comment on them...
^ What he said.

:) Lighter moderation, please.

Hover less. ;)

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2007, 06:45 PM
In total, I edited and/or moved three threads authored by Ninja because they had these characteristics:

If moderators (in this case, I) continue to let Ninja let post this way, they must let everybody post this way.

(100% Rhetorical) Question: What happens when everybody posts on a message board this way?


OH THE HUMANITY!!!!

People will be running in the streets running higgledy piggledy!!!

Rap, the thread was entitled something to the line of "stupid people" because it was about PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING SCIENCE, not the science in and of itself.

The other, which you spelled "Lense" wrong in the edited title, was not about cameras, but what picture was taken.

As for links, this happens on MANY BBS's. And on MOST of teh ones I have been to, someone mentions "broken link" and lets the ORIGINAL AUTHOR correct, change or delete it.

With all due respect Rap, you are not my mother. Please do not "clean up" my rooms unless they pose some sort of health hazard!!! ;)

Rhetorical answer: You get a bunch of people who LIKE POSTING. Don't straw man the issue Rap.

/me starts looking for W.O.Oz pics on Google......

kz1000ps
June 20th, 2007, 07:18 PM
Now this isn't meant as a sign of disrespect to Rapunzel at all, but I'd like to know where was the need for another moderator here? And I mean this at the most basic level -- does/did this place need (not want) another moderator? Having been here for four years now (I lurked the first year :p), I find myself saying "no." So I'd like to know what the back-room discussions were in making this decision.


Rapunzel, you made it perfectly clear that you wanted to be a moderator here months before the decision was made in the form of various comments and suggestions (which I'm not discrediting at all), so when the announcement was made I found myself very unsurprised (didn't see that one coming). I say this not to create a bad taste in your or anyone's mouth, but the whole time you were pushing to become a mod I just didn't see the need for it. And I use the word "pushing" because that's sort of what it felt like to me. You can call me entrenched in my old ways to a fault, but I was content with the way things were.

This isn't to say that I don't want you as a moderator, but I guess I'd just reccommend what the others have -- ease off a little bit. Ideal moderation should be invisible and unnoticed to the average user, and as of late it's been a bit less than ideal.

So, to reiterate my initial question - what was discussed in bringing Rap into the fold?

Edward
June 20th, 2007, 07:51 PM
Let us try to bring some order to this chaotic exchange.

1. Regarding the smoking thread, I suggest to stop the fruitless discussion about who said what at some point and how it was misunderstood.

2. Ninja, as a member of this community, you are not showing much effort to make the life of moderators easier - and that's a consensus among moderating staff. Please be calm and restrained in discussions and more open to moderators comments.

3. Rapunzel raised several valid issues where I agree with her judgement, these issues will be discussed and some policy eventually developed; hence I prefer the discussion in terms of issues and not personalities.

4. Re where the thread belongs is not such a trivial question, it is discussed among moderators, it would be discused with forum members and more clear guidelines will be developed.

5. If there is a problem with search function, it should be brought up in appropriate thread.

6. Re the need for new moderator - yes there was a need, and still remains, so there will be new moderators in the future.

BrooklynRider
June 20th, 2007, 09:55 PM
In total, I edited and/or moved three threads authored by Ninja because they had these characteristics:

If moderators (in this case, I) continue to let Ninja let post this way, they must let everybody post this way.

(100% Rhetorical) Question: What happens when everybody posts on a message board this way?

With all due respect, this forum was not falling to pieces prior to you joining the ranks of Moderators and it certainly has not been declining in quality up until now. From this side of the forum, it seems to be well policed by members for spam posts and posts started in wrong threads. I've certainly seen other folks like Lofter, Ablarc, and Macreator point out if threads are duplicate or if discussions belong elsewhere. I want to be really sensitive to the fact that you are really putting tremendous effort and time into creating a better forum. However, the negative and very unrealistic prediction that everyone might suddenly start posting threads or responses with those characteristics is simply reaching for thin air.

I was wondering if Edward or some of the other Moderators could comment on my post about moving threads based on "responses" as opposed to "topic." If a thread name needs to be very matter of fact, that can certainly be done. If it is not a proper thread name, am I correct in believing that Moderators can change it? Although Rapunzel was kind enough to respond very quickly to my initial response about the aforementioned threads, her explanatiion seems to imply that a series of responses in a thread can summarily result in it being moved to "Anything Goes." A thread is started and categorized based on the topic, not the response. The long time members here have seen many threads stray way off topic, sometimes in humorous ways and at other times in deep debate and discourse about heated issues. Moderators have typically nudged it or demanded it go back on topic, but never moved it.

If we take the moving of threads a step further into the extreme, why not just have Moderators approve threads before they are posted. It is really hard to justify moving threads a week or more after they've been posted and responded to multiple times in a sub-forum.

Merry
June 21st, 2007, 07:59 AM
Although I respect Edward's deliberations, I must agree with the sentiments expressed by other members. In my opinion, Rapunzel's moderating style is out of place on this forum and is a very obvious and inappropriate intrusion. We're not children and we all have (or had) our own mothers.

Ninjahedge
June 21st, 2007, 09:18 AM
Ed, with all due respect, I dropped the issue about my deleted post a while ago. Enough people have said so, so there is no need to rub salt in any further.

Bottom line is, the moderation here has always been rather formal and strait line, but I have never really seen it as intrusive. Having many other threads moved, edited or otherwise altered gives me an uncertain uncomfortable feeling. Like someone is changing things on my computer.

I do not know how others feel. I am just asking for a little respect when it comes to how things are handled.

I feel like I am being treated like a child.

Feelings are important.

BrooklynRider
June 21st, 2007, 01:57 PM
^I second that.

Edward
June 21st, 2007, 06:18 PM
The threads and posts on this forum are not a personal property of a poster, the forum is not a personal computer or folder. By definition, the purpose is a discussion, an exchange of ideas and information - this process is not trivial and for it to work a certain framework has to be established.

The information has to be well organized and labeled for users to find it and for search engines to index it. So for the forum to work, for most of the users, most of the time, the forum is moderated - that means threads will be moved, renamed, split, merged, deleted etc. No one is excepted from this moderation - please understand sooner or later your posts will be in some way moderated.

Another point I would like to mention is that there bound to be times when it is not obvious how to deal with a particular post, and different users and different moderators would have a differing opinion. In such cases it would be wise not to dwell too much on difference of opinion, but work together on developing clearer guidelines that would work for everyone.

Alonzo-ny
June 21st, 2007, 06:31 PM
Saying "Don't quote me" does not give you carte blanche to give any opinion you want any time you want.

I wrote to you nicely and politely before, witness in bold:

Since being polite didn't work, I'll repeat it plainly:

You must give your inflammatory opinion of the Scots vs. the English in a new thread, or not at all.

Any more discussion of this subject on this thread will be deleted.

I moved this here for fear of rapunzel wrath.

I find the fact you are not bothered by the inflammitory (i suggest you research english fans conduct at the world cup 98 in france) comment but its relevance in the right thread disturbing.


Forums are mostly opinions, without there would be cold facts and not alot else. As i said before i did NOT want to start a thread on this subject. many times i have read comments like these in every thread at some point and they are not called out by our more battle hardened moderators.

I support Ninja and I think your moderating is heavy handed.

If you are bothered by the way i commented then say that but the relevance is not enough to warrant this over the top response. If anyone IS bothered by my comment PM me or start a thread for healthy discussion.

BrooklynRider
June 21st, 2007, 09:55 PM
The idea of deleting a post because it is off-topic seems very extreme. I suggest that posts only be deletedif they contain graphiuc sexual material, use derogatory comments, or are infused with foul language. I am absolutely amazed that this lock-step approach is being introduced. It is not the continuation of the moderation we have seen nor an ipmprovement, but rather an abuse of a forum community that has been very observant of rules, courtesy, and good sense. There is nothing clear here except that the new style of moderation is going to arbitrarily cut into threads. Nothing has been communicated beyond "do what I say or else." There is a conversational nature to the threads and ultimately they might zig and zag, but they always return to topic or die out.

With all due respect to Rapunzel, she made numerous suggestions about reorganizing this forum in a couple of threads. The majority of regular forum members responding disagreed with those suggestions and they were dropped. Personally, I think I'm now more inclined to lurk and read than post. I look at Zippy (because he rather ubiquitous here) and I think his guidelines for moderation are very effective. I've disagreed with him in a number of threads over the years and he has never threatened me and we work it out via PM. I would venture to guess that most people find him very fair and a tremendous help. When I have an issue that needs moderator attention, he is the "go to" guy. I'm not asking for a clone, because he also conveys a very distinct personality. I hope we'll find moderation in the moderation here.

I have two suggestions to make going forward:

1) New Moderators Have a Minimal "Active User" Status of at least two years and a Minimal Amount of Posts. This will demonstrate an understanding of the community, the nature of posting here, and prevent individual subjectivity from setting into, what should be, objective moderation.

2) Please ban the use of flash cartoons in posts. I used to be able to read this forum at work and recommend it to professional colleagues. Now, I have to be conscious of these graphics that kind of transform this visually into a kiddie palace. Please limit attached images to JPEG or TIF images. The flash cartoons have, thankfully, never been a part of this forum and our communication has always been written -expressing ideas and opinions. It's fun in the right context, but at WNY it strikes me as litter in the threads. Let's keep it adult.

Thanks for allowing us to toss our two cents in. (Actually, I think I've given you about a buck-fifty.)

Fabrizio
June 22nd, 2007, 04:09 AM
"2) Please ban the use of flash cartoons in posts. I used to be able to read this forum at work and recommend it to professional colleagues. Now, I have to be conscious of these graphics that kind of transform this visually into a kiddie palace. Please limit attached images to JPEG or TIF images. The flash cartoons have, thankfully, never been a part of this forum and our communication has always been written -expressing ideas and opinions. It's fun in the right context, but at WNY it strikes me as litter in the threads. Let's keep it adult."

I second that. We can't all be brilliant all of the time, but this forum generally has a witty, sophisticated tone. It's just not a place for dancing pandas.

Ninjahedge
June 22nd, 2007, 08:57 AM
My OP will not help things on this.

Suffice to say that sometimes the OP wants to make the thread go in one direction or another. When someone comes on and changes it because they think it should go another is intrusive.

If you want people to share articles, that is one thing. But if you want them to give their opinions about things, changing stuff will make them less likely to do so in the future.

Front_Porch
June 22nd, 2007, 12:04 PM
The level of chatter about all this raises one further point: perhaps being a moderator is tougher than it looks.

I don't want to take sides in any Rapunzel-should-or-shouldn't-delete argument, mostly because I haven't been paying attention, but I do want to say it raises issues about how tough it is to perform with the grace and even-handness of a Stern, Knight, Chimp, etc.

Let's pause and say thank you to Punz for trying to step up before we box her ears some more.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Mohamed
August 16th, 2007, 04:06 PM
Congratulations for all new Moderators