Hoboken

[JCMAN320]

Just curioius what is everyone's opinion of Hoboken?

[dbhstockton]

Really cool city, getting outrageously expensive, constant parking shortage. *Lots of nice blocks of old brownstones. *Unofficial sixth borough, or is it seventh, after JC? *Really nice old train station. *Best views of Midtown anywhere. *Youthful, fun city, rapidly gentrifying and thus losing its edge to young stockbrokers. *Frank Sinatra's home town. *Moody, atmospheric industrial ruins. *
Maxwell's is a venerable music venue for up-and-comers, and is where Bruce Springsteen shot his "Glory Days" video.

(Edited by dbhstockton at 11:43 am on June 6, 2003)

[NYatKNIGHT]

I lived there for a while after college, as did most of my friends. It was the perfect time to live there as there are SO many bars and young, beautiful girls walking around, plus it was affordable back then. And Greenwich Village is a ten minute PATH train away. One block I lived on was a not-yet-gentrified Italian neighborhood where I actually heard a lady yelling "Anthonyyyyyy!" out the window (like the Prince spaghetti commercials). GREAT pizza - as good as anywhere in New York. I loved it there, and occasionally still enjoy the restaurants and the many cool bars. It definitely has that less vibrant but neighborhoody outer-borough feel, obviously a little quieter than Manhattan for the most part, and safe. Parking is, and always has been, a living nightmare.

There are some beautiful blocks of brownstones, as dbh said, and still plenty of creepy projects back near the cliffs. Most of the redevelopment in the backstreets is successful and architecturally interesting, but I'm not crazy about the waterfront development aside from the fabulous new parks and piers.

Baseball's first officially recorded organized game was played there (by two New York clubs) at the Elysian Fields.

[Zoe]

Developement is non-stop in Hoboken. *I agree that the waterfront office buildings are not so hot. *But the town will soon build a W hotel on the water and add another peir next to the one already there. *
Public transportation is getting better. *The PA approved funding to renovate the old Lackawana Ferry terminal. *The lightrail will open 2 new stops along the west-side of Hoboken in early 2004 and there is a new elevator structure they are currently building that will connect the 9th street lightrail stop to JC heights. *In that same area they are building out several new developments including a project called Village West. *That project will be along the lightrail and will be an artist community with several fountains, etc... *Obviously I now live there (but miss Astoria) and enjoy the neighborhoods. *It is extremely gentrified and probably the most Yuppie area in NJ.

[Kris]

New tower and hotel: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/08/realestate/08NJZO.html

[JCDJ]

Development finishes fast in Hoboken, one time I checked out skyscrapers.com and it listed one project as proposed, and before I knew it (or even saw any of the construction), I saw the real thing complete, one day when I looked in its direction.

[STT757]

My Girlfriends father own a couple houses in Hoboken, when we get married we hope we can move into Hoboken.

Hoboken is like the City, more like the Village, but safer and smaller.

The night life is excellent in Hoboken, and there are more outside cafes on Washington street than I've seen anywhere in Manhattan.

It's getting expensive but it just adds to it's prestige.

The Lackawanna terminal is excellent, it's the second nicest rail facility after Grand Central.

Also the Port Authority is investing Hundreds of Millions in restoring the orginal ferry landings which will greatly expand the ferry service from Hoboken. Also NJ Transit connects Hoboken with many towns as far away as Port Jervis NY, Hopefully the proposes Lackawanna Cut-off project will get the go-ahead which will restore passenger rail service from Scranton PA to Hoboken.

http://hobokenterminal.com/webpix/hobokenferryslips.jpg

http://hobokenterminal.com/webpix/hoboken_waitingroom_night_small.jpg

http://hobokenterminal.com/photos/snowboken/snowboken_njt_4112_gp40ph-2_12-95_decesare.jpg

[Zoe]

City and grassroots citizen's group file appeal to stop already-built buildings
Tom Jennemann - Hoboken Reporter
Reporter staff writer September 28, 2003

Both the City of Hoboken and a citizens' organization called the Hudson County Alliance have filed appeals of a dismissal of their suit against the developer of two 17-story towers at 101 Marshall St. on the city's southwestern border. The project is commonly referred to as the Gateway Towers.
Construction on the 326-unit high rise was approved by the city's Zoning Board in 1998 and construction began nearly a year and a half ago. Both towers now stand 17 stories tall, and construction of the exterior is nearly complete.
The plaintiffs argue that approvals for the project were given illegally, and that the tall towers will add to congestion and sewer problems.

Uphill fight continues
At this point, the odds of success are stacked against the city's and the HCA's appeal. The first obstacle is that the project was approved back in 1998, meaning that it is going to be exceedingly difficult to argue that the statute of limitations hasn't run out. Normally plaintiffs have one year to file.
The HCA continues to argue that because Jersey City, whose border is within 200 feet of the project, was never notified that the project was before the Planning Board, "the clock [for possible litigation] never started."
Jersey City had joined the HCA and Hoboken in earlier litigation, but has since dropped out after reaching a six-figure settlement with the developer, Gateway I LLC and Harrison Street Apartments.
The second thing working against the city is that Superior Court Judge Arthur D'Italia on August 21, 2002 threw the HCA, Jersey City and Hoboken's case out, and in his ruling scolded Hoboken, Jersey City and the HCA for filing years after the project was approved. In his ruling, the judge said that all parties involved failed to act "with due diligence and dispatch" an that even under "the most liberal" interpretation the city "slept soundly on its rights."
The judge added that stopping work would be an "onerous" hardship on the project's builder, which has received $58 million in bank loans to erect the buildings.
The final obstacle that faces the HCA and the city, and maybe the most obvious, is that the buildings are already built.
While there is a precedent of developers being forced to shave floors off the top of buildings, it's highly unlikely, according to one high-ranking city official, that any judge is going to make a developer tear down 326 units of already-constructed housing.

What's to gain
All of these factors beg the question to be asked, what is there to gain from appealing the approvals for a building that is already built?
One reason is to show current developers, and those who might want to develop in the future, that there are watchdog groups scrutinizing development closely.
"We still strongly feel the [Zoning Board and the North Hudson Sewerage Authority] were wrong and that still needs to be addressed," said Eric Volpe of the HCA. "We believe that it is important that court hears our arguments and rules on the legality of these approvals."
A second rationale for continuing litigation was presented by Councilwoman Carol Marsh. She said that the issues of legality and of possible remediation should be looked at separately.
"Let's first find out if these approvals were illegal," she said. "Then we can talk about what can be done." She added that the buildings being nearly finished shouldn't be a reason to stop litigation. If a wrong was committed during the approval process, it should be brought to light no matter where the construction is.
Neither the HCA's nor the city's appeal gives any suggestions as to what a possible remediation might entail. Also, both Marsh and Volpe both declined to speculate what might be an acceptable resolution if their appeal is successful.

History of the project
Foundation permits were granted in September of 2001 by the city of Hoboken for two 17-story towers at 101 Marshall St. The original zoning approval was granted in 1998. Developer Rene Abreu, the owner of several real estate, mortgage, and tax appraisal companies, submitted and got approval for the 17-story towers for one of his companies, Gateway 1 LLC. He sold the properties and the company and the company in 2001. In May 2002, Abreu was indicted by the U.S. Attorney's Office on charges of bank fraud, mortgage fraud, check kiting, money laundering and bribery of bank officials.
While 101 Marshall was not listed in the indictment, there were checks cited that were deposited into the accounts for "Gateway 1 LLC," which is the name of Abreu's company that was developing 101 Marshall. Those checks were dated before the sale of the property. The current owners are in no way related or linked to Abreu's alleged indiscretions.
Variances approved for the project in 1998 included parking height and lot coverage. Gateway was allowed to have a 17-story height and 100 percent lot coverage, while city ordinance stipulated a five-story building with only 60 percent lot coverage. Similarly, parking ordinances called for 484 off-street parking spaces, and the project got approval for only 431 spaces.
On July 1, 2002 litigation was initiated by the Hudson County Alliance (HCA), a local citizens' group, to stop construction. On July 9, 2002, both Hoboken and Jersey City joined the litigation. The lawsuit aimed to overturn the project's Zoning Board approvals and those from the North Hudson Sewerage Authority that will allow the builder of the project to connect the building to the city's sewer lines.
The buildings - which will feature 326 rental units, two restaurants, a health club, retail space and an enclosed seven-story garage - are nearly complete. The suit filed against the property owners named the Hoboken Zoning Board and the North Hudson Sewerage Authority as defendants. The Hoboken City Council and the HCA were co-plaintiffs along with Jersey City.
Members of the Hudson County Alliance have stated in previous reports that the organization's resistance to the project is due to both possible improprieties in securing variances and permits and also the traffic and flooding problems the complex may cause.
Property values are also at stake, as the 158-foot towers would obscure sight lines to Manhattan and New York Harbor from the Jersey City Heights neighborhood at the edge of the Palisades.
On August 21, 2002, Judge Arthur D'Italia dismissed nearly every count of the case. On Sept.5, 2003 the HCA filed its appeal with the state Appellate Court, and on Monday the city filed its appeal.

[NYatKNIGHT]

Manhattan views from the Hoboken waterfront.

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/Waterfront1.sized.jpg

Downtown from Hoboken:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/DowntownfromHoboken.sized.jpg

Reshaping the watefront:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/waterfront2.sized.jpg

From Stevens Institute of Technology:
The Howe Center, superb views of the city high up on a cliff:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/stevens.sized.jpg

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/Skyline1.sized.jpg

Waterfront soccer field:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/soccer.sized.jpg

Marina
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/marina.sized.jpg

Midtown from the 13th Street pier:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/pier13.sized.jpg

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/13StPierView.sized.jpg


Brownstones:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/brownstones.sized.jpg


Train Station waiting room:
http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/waiting_room.sized.jpg

[STT757]

I Love Hoboken, and I love Hoboken Terminal. Great job with the interior shot, they are begining work to restore the outside of the terminal as well as the original ferry slips.

Should be awesome.

[Gulcrapek]

Gruzen Samton is busy here..


1118 Adams Street
Mixed-use structures in Hoboken, New Jersey
461,165 Square Feet
Hoboken, New Jersey - 2005

http://www.gruzensamton.com/images/project_thumbs/Hoboken-Devleopment_Block_104_Rendering_1_2005t.jpg

Hoboken Northwest Development - Block 88
Mixed-use structures in Hoboken, New Jersey
461,165 Square Feet
Hoboken, New Jersey - 2005

http://www.gruzensamton.com/images/project_pops/Hoboken_Devleopment_Rendering_1_2003_p.jpg

Hoboken Northwest Development - Block 87
Mixed-use structures in Hoboken, New Jersey
461,165 Square Feet
Hoboken, New Jersey - 2005

http://www.gruzensamton.com/images/project_zooms/Hoboken_Northwest_Rendering_Block_87_1_2004_1.jpg

Hoboken Northwest Development - 1100 Adams Street
Mixed-use structures in Hoboken, New Jersey
461,165 Square Feet
Hoboken, New Jersey - 2005

http://www.gruzensamton.com/images/project_zooms/Hoboken_Property_Block_104_3D_Rendering.jpg


www.gruzensamton.com (http://www.gruzensamton.com/)

[Ninjahedge]

A lot of the new development is dissapointing.

You have some of these really nice brownstones all over, and then you get these aluminum stud-wall pre-fab units growing like weeds all over the place and going for upwards of $600 a sf because they have marble countertops in the kitchen...

The general rule with most of these developments is to buy new and sell within 5 years before the window weatehrstripping starts to peel, or the pressboard cabinets start to "loosen".

It is a nice place to live (been there 8 years) but it has its own problems. Parking being one of them.

One of the hardest things to give up here will be the proximity of so many good restaurants within walking distance!

[mluetke]

I have a friend that just moved to NYC and got an apartment in Hoboken, New Jersey. Anyone ever been there? If so, anything fun to do there aside from going into the city?

I'd love to know!

[ebrigham]

I have only been a few times, but Hoboken definately has it's own nightlife that doesn't involve going into Manhattan. Restaraunts, bars, outdoor spaces, etc. Parking is a bitch though from what I have seen and heard...

[ablarc]

Parking is a bitch...
Forget parking. Hoboken has an excellent subway connection to Manhattan via PATH. It's also acessible by frequent ferry service.

[Ninjahedge]

Hoboken, never heard of it... ;)


Fun to do? Yes:

Hoboken Ski Club
Volleyball
Soccer (although I don't know where to sign up)
Bars all over the place.
Live music (some really good, the rest are covers)
FOOD!

But Hoboken is SO close to the village and central mid-town that you should have no problem getting around.



As for food, I reccomend these places in Hoboken:

Augustinos - Italian
Sri-Thai - Thai
Satay - malaysian
Arthurs - CHEAP steak
Helmers - Beer
Maxwells - New/Up and coming performers. So-so food
Baja - Mexican. Do NOT go to East LA.
Margharitas - PIZZA!!!!

And there are a few others.


www.kannekt.com has some listings.

[jiw40]

Dude,if your friend moved to New York City they would have an apartment in New York,not Hoboken,New Jersey.

[NYatKNIGHT]

I merged this thread with a new one started by mluetke so there aren't two Hoboken threads.

[STT757]

I have a friend that just moved to NYC and got an apartment in Hoboken, New Jersey. Anyone ever been there? If so, anything fun to do there aside from going into the city?

I'd love to know!

Personally I find Hoboken more fun than the City, Younger crowd with a Wall Street/Party College vibe.

[STT757]

Hoboken, never heard of it... ;)

As for food, I reccomend these places in Hoboken:

Augustinos - Italian
Sri-Thai - Thai
Satay - malaysian
Arthurs - CHEAP steak
Helmers - Beer
Maxwells - New/Up and coming performers. So-so food
Baja - Mexican. Do NOT go to East LA.
Margharitas - PIZZA!!!!

And there are a few others.


www.kannekt.com has some listings.

Nirvana played Maxwells right before they hit it big with "Smells Like Teen Spirit". There's a band called Eugene based in Hoboken I like to see.

For food..

Precious (Chinese/Sushi)
East LA (Mexican)
Qadoba (Mexican fast food)
Tutta Pasta (Italian)
Malibu Diner
Benny Tedinos (Pizzaria)
Fiores (Mortadella Sandwiches)
Black Bear (Steak)
Chock Full of Nuts (Coffee/Pastry)


My favorite restaraunt that I took my Fiance all the time is/was Flavia which is a lite Italian Fare, however they have not been open the last couple times I was there but I hope they come back!.....

[Schadenfrau]

Karma Kafe (forgive the queer name) is great for Indian:

http://www.karmakafe.com/

Also, Zafra is wonderful for Cuban:

http://www.hobokeni.com/zafra.asp

[Ninjahedge]

Nirvana played Maxwells right before they hit it big with "Smells Like Teen Spirit". There's a band called Eugene based in Hoboken I like to see.

For food..

Precious (Chinese/Sushi) It is OK. I used to live across the street. And take it from my GF, there is no true Chinese outside of Chinatown...

East LA (Mexican) NONONONONO!!!!! It is Cockroach heaven! You go there to drink! They have a VERY bad cleanliness rap!

Qadoba (Mexican fast food) It's OK. MUCH better than TB and not owned by McD's (Chipolte)

Tutta Pasta (Italian) Um, no. Sorry, but that is NOT true italian. It is a chain. Saporitoes is better, although it is hard to understand the specials. Margharitas is good, Augustino's is GREAT, and Michelinas. Tutta is so-so.

Malibu Diner Diner, what can you say. If you have a car there are much better greasy spoons out on the highway. the greasiest I have been to beingthe Bendix Diner out on route 17 by route 46.

Benny Tedinos (Pizzaria) I have to agree, to a point. They have the best simple Jersey slice I have tasted in Hoboken. They are a genuine Italian Suburb pizzaria.

Fiores (Mortadella Sandwiches) I think I heard of that one. Is that teh one with the Au Jus sandwich specials twice a week? Pick your own bread?

Black Bear (Steak) Nah, they are a good burger bar. I used to hang out there almost every weekend, but they kinda tried to become a sports bar. Some of the specials are good, and it is a great place to get something like a beer and a sandwich and sit outside on a summer afternoon, but I would not call it the greatest for steaks.

Chock Full of Nuts (Coffee/Pastry) Hehehe. And I think Landmark had better coffee than StarPlucks, but that is just an opinion...


My favorite restaraunt that I took my Fiance all the time is/was Flavia which is a lite Italian Fare, however they have not been open the last couple times I was there but I hope they come back!.....

Flavia is OK, but very dry . they make things lite by not putting much on it that is fatty.

So it is great for a light pasta or bruchetta, but if you want a true Parmigana you need to go uptown.


Sorry for ranking on some of the places in your post STT, but I just had to offer my opinion on the places you commented on... ;)

[STT757]

They are all good, I love Hoboken. Im getting married there in October '06, my fiance was born there and her father owns some properties on the West Side of Town . His business has a real driveway, where I can park for free when we visit:)

[STT757]

Fiores (Mortadella Sandwiches) I think I heard of that one. Is that teh one with the Au Jus sandwich specials twice a week? Pick your own bread?.

That's the place, real old world sandwiches. I love the Mortedella but it comes back to haunt you after you eat it.

[STT757]

One more place I forgot is City hall bakery, Carlo's.

They are doing our wedding cake.

The two best places in the tri-State area for Italian pastries are Mona Lisa Bakery in Dyker Heights Brooklyn and City Hall/ Carlo's bakery.

[Zoe]

Here are a few other places to check out

Illusion
Trinity
House of Sushi
Pita Grill
OdeFellows (cajun)
Venue
Amanda's

[Ninjahedge]

Here are a few other places to check out

Illusion Trendy, $$$

Trinity See above

House of Sushi Ubu, right across from The Sushi Bar, is better. Robongi on Washington gives you more food, but does not taste as good...

Pita Grill Decent, but weird. Not truly middle eastern, but reminiscent.

OdeFellows (cajun) Pretty good, but go on a weekday. Weekends are very yuppie-drinker-out-of-towner

Venue $$$$$!!!!!!!

Amanda's Very good, but also expensive. If you are going for expensive, you could also go to Frankie and Johnnies.


There are also a few Prix Fixe that are good as well at:

Amandas - Very small window of opportunity though.
Madison B+G
City Bistro

That is all I can remember now.


I do recommend Karma for indian though. Bombay West is not bad either.

And Cuban? get your butt to La Isla!

I just miss Carmalitoes! Charitoes is OK, but it is much more expensive, and ever since the owner "left" (He worked there all the time when it opened), the guys that are left are HORRIBLE at cleanup (I used to live above them).

Roaches in the hallway! Dragging leaking garbage through the foyer from the back to the front curb! Smoking and drinking IN THE HALLWAY!

When the boss is away, the kids will play.



Oh, outside the city, two places I have been to that are nice:

The Iron Monkey (remember the stupid ads?) - Fusion food of all sorts
Prestos - GREAT Italian at can't be beat prices.

There is also a pretty good , I think it is Korean place in JC right next to a decent Korean Grocery, and Fort Lee has a pretty good Kimchee/Soup place right near the GWB (parking is a beast, and the neighbor owns the lot across the street and gets pissey when people park there).

Anywho, GL!

(And I have to try out the bakery. I remember walking along, I think it was 1st or 2nd and smelling this small bakery, all in white tile, baking up some fresh breat one day. smelled so good!)

[arbeiter]

My first place was in Hoboken when I moved to the NYC area. I *hated* it. Absolutely hated it.

Sure, the brownstones were pretty, the waterfront nice, and all of the asian-fusion restaurants palatable, but the people, my god, the PEOPLE!
These are the people who are either too scared to live in New York or too name-obsessed to live in Queens or Brooklyn, or Harlem or somewhere else. The town was so homogenous in the worst way possible. Hoboken types are generally one of the following:

1. the B.A. degree white girl from suburban philadelphia, suburban new jersey or somewhere else. likely went to villanova, northeastern, or another second-tier university. was probably in a sorority. sticks largely to manhattan west of 6th ave. if possible.

2. the frat-boy young wall street worker who only lives there to meet type 1. Can be seen starting fights at an overpriced bar where they serve beer in really large mugs with really large TV's showing really large football players.

Needless to say, I was neither, so I moved to Brooklyn and don't regret it. I didn't move to New York to live in a place like Hoboken... it was basically suburban Dallas with brownstones and a subway.

[TLOZ Link5]

Needless to say, I was neither, so I moved to Brooklyn and don't regret it. I didn't move to New York to live in a place like Hoboken... it was basically suburban Dallas with brownstones and a subway.

Ouch.

[TonyO]

My first place was in Hoboken when I moved to the NYC area. I *hated* it. Absolutely hated it.

Sure, the brownstones were pretty, the waterfront nice, and all of the asian-fusion restaurants palatable, but the people, my god, the PEOPLE!
These are the people who are either too scared to live in New York or too name-obsessed to live in Queens or Brooklyn, or Harlem or somewhere else. The town was so homogenous in the worst way possible. Hoboken types are generally one of the following:

1. the B.A. degree white girl from suburban philadelphia, suburban new jersey or somewhere else. likely went to villanova, northeastern, or another second-tier university. was probably in a sorority. sticks largely to manhattan west of 6th ave. if possible.

2. the frat-boy young wall street worker who only lives there to meet type 1. Can be seen starting fights at an overpriced bar where they serve beer in really large mugs with really large TV's showing really large football players.

Needless to say, I was neither, so I moved to Brooklyn and don't regret it. I didn't move to New York to live in a place like Hoboken... it was basically suburban Dallas with brownstones and a subway.

Tell us what you really think of Hoboken...

In all seriousness though, your description is basically on the money.

[Ninjahedge]

You do not go to Hoboken for the people.

You forgot to mention the clique-ey nature of the town.


People are really nice when you start to break down the barriers, but that is hard to do. Most people come in with their own cadre of friends and do not bother looking for any more.

But if you wanted to meet some better people you had to follow some simple rules:

1. Do not go to ANY of the trendy bars.
2. Visit places like Scotland yard to listen to the blues
3. Try clubs or other social organizations
4. Talk to the LOCALS, not the ones that just moved in!!
5. Dont even try to get some open space at the parks on a nice weekend.
6. Visit NY a lot... ;)


I think I like it for a few reasons:

1. It is VERY close to work.
2. A LOT of places to eat, all within walking distance.
3. Nice brownstones.
4. Still close enough for me to easily drive to visit family.

But I do have to agree with you about the people. They seem to be mostly suburbanites coming into Hoboken right after college because it is a shorter commute with more bars, look for someone from the same genre, going out, getting hitched, having a kid and moving out when that kid turns 2.

;)

[Morrissey]

I've visited Hoboken several times - and it definitely reminded me of Brooklyn. Your thoughts? I went to several open houses in Brooklyn and the price is more affordable and you definitely get more space.

[Ninjahedge]

I've visited Hoboken several times - and it definitely reminded me of Brooklyn. Your thoughts? I went to several open houses in Brooklyn and the price is more affordable and you definitely get more space.

Depends on the area. Hoboken had a price boom with all the development running rampant (all you have to do is go back by 10th and Monroe and see the maze of 6 story plain jane condos that are going up.).

Brooklyn Heights compares very favorably to Hoboken, as well as other areas nearby. Park Slope is probably pretty close a comparison as well. There are even 2 or 3 blocks near the projects in Hoboken that remind me of areas of the OLD east village/Bed-Sty.

But it is hard to compare Brooklyn with Hoboken in that Brooklyn seems to have held itself together a little more. Depending on where you go, it is a little more crowded, but more neighborhood-y.

I don't know how else to describe it. I liked areas of both, quite frankly. And the Blues Fest in the Heights had me sold on BH. If it wasn't for the $$ I would be living there now!

[Morrissey]

Depends on the area. Hoboken had a price boom with all the development running rampant (all you have to do is go back by 10th and Monroe and see the maze of 6 story plain jane condos that are going up.).

Brooklyn Heights compares very favorably to Hoboken, as well as other areas nearby. Park Slope is probably pretty close a comparison as well. There are even 2 or 3 blocks near the projects in Hoboken that remind me of areas of the OLD east village/Bed-Sty.

But it is hard to compare Brooklyn with Hoboken in that Brooklyn seems to have held itself together a little more. Depending on where you go, it is a little more crowded, but more neighborhood-y.

I don't know how else to describe it. I liked areas of both, quite frankly. And the Blues Fest in the Heights had me sold on BH. If it wasn't for the $$ I would be living there now!

What are your thoughts on SKY CLUB? i almost purchased a condo there

[Ninjahedge]

Sky Club?

You would have to give me the addy on that one.

There are a lot of new things going up in the area, and it is hard to say which ones are better than others.

The GF and I bought the top floor of a Brownstone on Washington Street. Over 1200 SF, skylights, 10' ceilings, and (now newly replaced by us) hardwood floors.

I like it much better than the newer condos in many ways. The only downside is that we do not have a modern washer/dryer (we have a stacked electric) and that things like the whirlpool tub is also not included.

But, quite frankly, things like marble countertops and whirlpool tubs mean very little when it comes to a new place. Look at what the cabinets are constructed of (wood or pressboard). Take a look at the molding and see if they did it right, or if they just did it as fast as they could to meet deadline. Look for cracks at seams indicating insufficient rigidity (flexible structure, possible longterm damage/leaks/drafts).

Look at the windows. Hell, look at everything! I have seen so many "quick and dirties" in the new construction and the renovations it is not funny.

You may find something worth getting, but you really have to look hard!

[Morrissey]

Sky Club?

You would have to give me the addy on that one.

There are a lot of new things going up in the area, and it is hard to say which ones are better than others.

The GF and I bought the top floor of a Brownstone on Washington Street. Over 1200 SF, skylights, 10' ceilings, and (now newly replaced by us) hardwood floors.

I like it much better than the newer condos in many ways. The only downside is that we do not have a modern washer/dryer (we have a stacked electric) and that things like the whirlpool tub is also not included.

But, quite frankly, things like marble countertops and whirlpool tubs mean very little when it comes to a new place. Look at what the cabinets are constructed of (wood or pressboard). Take a look at the molding and see if they did it right, or if they just did it as fast as they could to meet deadline. Look for cracks at seams indicating insufficient rigidity (flexible structure, possible longterm damage/leaks/drafts).

Look at the windows. Hell, look at everything! I have seen so many "quick and dirties" in the new construction and the renovations it is not funny.

You may find something worth getting, but you really have to look hard!

That's on first street and jackson i believe. i cancelled it because it was next to the projects and is not close to washington street.

when did you purchase the brownstone? how many bedrooms?

[Ninjahedge]

Last year, 2BR (although it was 3 a while back. One of the previous owners tore down a wall).

I would look for some of the older ones before going for the new construction unless you are looking at a quick turnaround.

The pre-fabs only last about 5-7 years before needing replacements/repairs (or you start to see unsightly staining onthe facade and the like).


Also, I am hearing word of the makret slowing up a bit, places staying on the market longer or going off the market. So who knows what that means.

I do not see Hoboken really dropping in price, but a bubble flattening may be coming. Look for what you want, in your price range, and then jump on it.

And you are right about Jackson, it is a DIVE!

[Morrissey]

Last year, 2BR (although it was 3 a while back. One of the previous owners tore down a wall).

I would look for some of the older ones before going for the new construction unless you are looking at a quick turnaround.

The pre-fabs only last about 5-7 years before needing replacements/repairs (or you start to see unsightly staining onthe facade and the like).


Also, I am hearing word of the makret slowing up a bit, places staying on the market longer or going off the market. So who knows what that means.

I do not see Hoboken really dropping in price, but a bubble flattening may be coming. Look for what you want, in your price range, and then jump on it.

And you are right about Jackson, it is a DIVE!

I guess about 8 months ago i was pretty adamant about moving to hoboken. I went to 14 open houses. but it just didnt work out. hence i am in murray hill now! i think in a 5-6 years i want to move to gramercy - you know when the prices are not as crazy!

[macmini]

Hoboken rolls out W-elcome mat

Ground broken for luxury hotel to open in 2 years

Thursday, December 01, 2005By JARRETT RENSHAW


JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

HOBOKEN - The Mile Square City now has something in common with San Francisco, Seoul, Sydney, Barcelona and neighboring New York City.

Hoboken will become the next city to boast a luxury W Hotel following yesterday's groundbreaking ceremony on the city's southern waterfront.

The W Hoboken, a sleek, wedge-shaped, 25-story building, will feature 225 rooms plus 37 luxury condos with unobstructed views of the Manhattan skyline, and an upscale bar and spa. Condo owners will enjoy all the luxuries of hotel life, including 24-hour room service, a daily maid and concierge service. It is scheduled to open in fall 2007.

Hoboken-based Applied Development will develop and own the facility, but it will be operated by Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide.

Local civic and political leaders proudly hailed the coming of the W Hotel as a historic and transforming event in the city's history.

"This is a great milestone in the history of the city, and it solidifies that Hoboken is one of the most favored destinations in the state of New Jersey," said Mayor David Roberts, one of the biggest supporters of the project over the years.

The ground-breaking attracted political leaders from all corners, including Hoboken resident Rep. Robert Menendez, who said the W Hotel's presence "exemplifies the city's enormous potential and all the great success it has already realized."

"It's giving us an icon on the waterfront," boasted City Council President Chris Campos.

Michael Barry, president of Applied Housing, said before yesterday that the $62 million hotel would itself bring the city more than 200 jobs, not including construction work, and that guests would spend roughly $100 in Hoboken per visit.

Rumors were buzzing at the press conference that one of W's newest tenants will be newly elected Governor and Hoboken resident Jon Corzine, whose spokesman refused to confirm or deny.

Menendez was asked if he thought about moving into one of the luxury condos, and replied: "I live on a public servant salary, I don't think I could afford to live there."

Although the W Hotel is still to be built, it has already attracted at least one entrepreneur.

"When I was looking for a site for my restaurant, I looked all over Hoboken, but I chose this spot because of the W Hotel," said Richard Browne, owner of Quays restaurant, located less than a block from the site.

Browne, like others, believes the W Hotel will draw some attention away from Washington Street and cast some light on the night life on River Street, where many upscale restaurants have found homes in recent years.

"It's a huge plus for us, and for the town," Browne said.

JARRETT RENSHAW can be reached at jrenshaw@jjournal.com

[czsz]

But...but...why?

Talk about Hoboken's renaissance all you want, but it's no world cosmopolis and never will be.

Unless of course the W is just planning to "go Starbucks". In which case we'll probably see some pop up in places like Trenton and Bridgeport in no time.

[Schadenfrau]

I think the W was sold recently, but that would have been after the construction on this started.

Still, the idea of a Hoboken W will never fail to crack me up. If anyone's the betting type, who'd like to wager against that being a HoJo's within three years?

[Ninjahedge]

The plot was being discussed for about 3 years or more now.

I saw the tent set up on the way to work and I was wondering what sane person would have a wedding reception in a flooded construction site, then it hit me. This was the ground breaking.


Or, rather, the digging up of a shovelful of dirt that was just back-hoes and leveled to give a flat, dry place to stand.

Anyway, Hoboken has some great opportunities to make an entire riverside plaza from the large buildings it recently put up, but in the greed that is Development, they made only the riverside habitable. the other side is flush with the sidewalk. If they had just left the buildings first bay open it would have made a wonderful open atrium kind of feel, with large dining plazas all around the buildings.

Now all we get to do is look at people working out in Club H, Jos A Clothier, or Chase Bank (among others).

River Street should be named Canyon Street at the rate they are going. Aside from Castle Rock, there is not a single length of the Hoboken Waterfront that is not, or planned to be, blocked by mid-hi rise structures.

It is good to build new stuff, but they just saw the $$ and not the long term impact.....

[Ninjahedge]

I think the W was sold recently, but that would have been after the construction on this started.

Still, the idea of a Hoboken W will never fail to crack me up. If anyone's the betting type, who'd like to wager against that being a HoJo's within three years?

As cynical as I am, I would wager against it.

have you been to Hoboken recently? I realize you are exaggerating to be sarcastic, but the average place there is now going for a bundle and the overall affluence of the area is above most of Queens and large sections of Brooklyn.

It is also close to a central rail station, and has what might be a direct link to Newark Airport without having to be located in Raritan.

Please do us a favor Schade and make fun of the "wholesome" Hoboken city hall rather than NJ in general...... ;)

[Schadenfrau]

I'm not making fun of Hoboken. I've certainly spent time there and the place has its own charm.

However, charm doesn't translate into tourists wanting to spend $400 a night on a hotel room, only to have to schlep it on the PATH the next day.

[Ninjahedge]

That's why they have the ferries.....


I can see them spending $$ to be in Hoboken, MUCH better view of NYC, but looking at the $$ of the restaurants and clubs that opened up along the riverside, I think that $400 a night is a little expensive too.

There has got to be a line somewhere between Luxury and Motel 6.....

(PS, that post was a little unclear.... I do agree with you Schade.... Hoboken is nice, but not Luxury. I guess that is just where the Mayor will have all his friends stay when they come to visit... ;) )

[Schadenfrau]

Middleground, thy name is HoJo's.

Seriously, please don't think I'm mocking Hoboken, but the town is not built to house a W hotel. A great record store, sure. Nice restaurants, of course. Lots of bars? Indeed.

The only market I can imagine for something like that would be entry-level bankers who've got college buddies visiting from out of town. And even then, former frat brahs are not known for turning their noses up at a couch.

[Schadenfrau]

I just read your last post and have to say, finally: we agree on something.

[RandySavage]

The hotel will have more impressive views than any Manhattan hotel... I lived in Hoboken years ago and commuted by Ferry... the hudson view of the Manhattan skyline (which will only get better with BofA, NYT, FT, etc.) never fails to impress.

[Schadenfrau]

But who stays in a hotel for a skyline?

An apartment I can understand, but visitors want to go out.

[Ninjahedge]

But who stays in a hotel for a skyline?

An apartment I can understand, but visitors want to go out.

I think they will not be able to get what they want out of it unless they get a major presence from places liek Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan (I believe they are both in JC now).

THAT would be the money maker, as I do not see too many hotels springing up in JC.

If JC can build up more like a downtown Brooklyn, Hoboken can easliy be compared to a Brooklyn Heights.


But now? $400?

I agree, too much for a night in NJ.

[JCMAN320]

Jersey City will be at that level soon. Once we complete all the artist housing in Powerhouse Art District which has almost been completed and we have the artists move in 2006, it will be a step in the right direction. Also, with the money going to and around Newark and Grove St. right now, it will only be a matter of time.

As for the hotel issue, the last one we have built is the Hyatt on the waterfront which usually houses sports teams when they come to Jersey and other celebrities. On top of that, we have Candlewood Suites, Doubletree, and the Courtyard Marriot. There are plan for two more hotels to go up in Downtown JC. One in the Liberty Harbor North development on Marin Blvd., possibly Sheraton or Hilton and one at the corner of Sixth and Washington Blvd., built by Newport Development. Also there possibly might be a third in the Powerhouse Art District.

Trust me I think the W Hotel would have been more appropriate here somewhere by Paulus Hook or by the Grove St. PATH.

http://jerseycityvibe.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=5&Itemid=63

I'm really sry didn't mean to get off topic.

[czsz]

This is the problem. Once Hoboken gets a W every little resurgent burg thinks it's entitled to one.

[Zoe]

There are no other hotels near. The residents of Hoboken have been waiting for a place in-town to have people be able to come and visit and stay at a hotel (you only have room for so many people, like during the holidays). Every woman I know in Hoboken is excited to finally be able to have a shower or some other function there.
I'm not sure who you all know from Hoboken, but almost every person I know here is well off. Many more millionaires live here than you think.

[Zoe]

Oh, but I agree it will not be $400 a night. My guess, low three hundreds...

[millertime83]

W Hotel
http://www.gwathmey-siegel.com/projects/architecture/corporate_projects/whotel/images/thumbs/w_hobo_r01.jpg
http://www.gwathmey-siegel.com/projects/architecture/corporate_projects/whotel/images/pop-ups/w_hobo_r03.jpg

[czsz]

That's quite the photorealistic rendering. Not the most imaginative building, but handsome nonetheless.

[Ninjahedge]

You see that road behind it?

It is called River Street. many are getting pissed though and think it should be called "Hoboken Canyon".

[TimmyG]

Is that building to the left (south) of the hotel actually being planned, or is it just space filler for the rendering?

[Ninjahedge]

It is being planned, but I do not know of any solid construction plans.

They were talking about it being exactly like the other two, but three flourescent pyramids would be a little much for me.... :P

[STT757]

In the Region | New Jersey
A Destination Hotel for Hoboken

Published: December 18, 2005
AS Hoboken continues its notch-by-notch niche-by-niche climb from slummy to sophisticated, this month's groundbreaking for a 25-story W Hotel on the refurbished waterfront has to be counted as another significant step.

The stylish new W beside the Hudson River will be Hoboken's one and only major hotel. None survive from the dockside city's less refined past, and city officials have been pressing to get a new one built for nearly a decade. The W is to open next fall.

With 225 first-class rooms, 40 elegant hotel residences and a signature array of amenities, the W Hoboken is expected to zoom to the four-star status now enjoyed by only one other hotel in New Jersey, the Short Hills Hilton - and add new credibility to Hoboken's claim to cutting-edge cachet.

"The city has gone from a place known for its college-age bars," with their stereotypical excesses, "to becoming the height of a hip urban scene," said John Avoletta, proprietor of Lua, a sleek restaurant and bar fronting the Hudson River that opened last year.

Only four years ago, there were not yet any restaurants or nightspots beside the river, but now there is a row of very nice establishments, Mr. Avoletta's Lua among the nicest.

"We have begun focusing on a more mature and discriminating clientele," he said, "and the W will be a terrific addition to the scene."

The W brand, begun in 1998 with the opening of the first W New York, now operates in 20 cities - 16 in the United States and one each in Australia, Canada, South Korea and Mexico. Ross A. Klein, president of the hotel company, which is owned by Starwood Resorts and Hotels Worldwide Inc., said hotels are currently in various stages of construction in Las Vegas, Hollywood, South Beach, Phoenix, Vieques and Barcelona. The W Maldives-Fesdhu, W's first resort, is scheduled to open in next June.

Hoboken is a little city, just a mile square, with only about 40,000 residents. But it is ready for the big time, in Mr. Klein's view.

"We do not see the W in Hoboken as a case of us taking an urban-city product and installing it in a suburb," Mr. Klein said. "We consider it to be a world-class property in the same way as we think of W's in London, Hong Kong, Dallas and Denver."

At the same time, Mr. Klein said he thinks it is "neat" that the W chain is creating a hotel just across the river from Manhattan that will face "the city of its birth."

Michael Barry, a principal of the Applied Development Company, the hotel's builder, noted that the building is designed to provide maximum views of the New York skyline. The wedge-shaped structure, designed by Gwathmey Siegel & Associates Architects of Manhattan, will be angled on its site near the Hoboken PATH and ferry stations so that huge bay windows will provide a panoramic view of Manhattan from all of the higher floors.

The tall slim tower will rise well above adjacent office buildings put up by SJP Properties during commercial development of the waterfront several years ago. Its gleaming metal-and-glass surfaces will provide a contrast to the traditional brick-and-masonry look of the city.

The hotel residences - featured in all newer W hotels - will occupy the top nine floors and have views north and south along the river.

The two-, three- or four-bedroom residences, which will have prices starting around $1.5 million, according to Mr. Barry, will offer all the amenities and services attached to a hotel stay: a striking lobby with a street-level bar, a fine restaurant, a shopping area, a glamorous upstairs bar, a Bliss spa, ballroom facilities and "Whatever, Whenever" concierge service.

Mr. Klein said that the hotel chain has discovered that its business draws as much from local communities as from travelers.

"We find a lot of people using our properties as weekend homes - urban escapes with great dining and lounges and the Bliss spa," he said. "We try to keep W exciting, so you can always find something to intrigue and delight you." Mr. Klein said he recently dropped into one of the two New York W's - they are at Union Square and Times Square - and was tickled to see a special on "manly-cures" at the spa.

The W Shop at the hotel offers spa products for sale, as well as items used in furnishing the rooms: down comforters, linens, piqué bathrobes, slippers, etc.

Mr. Klein talked of his hotel's becoming a cornerstone in Hoboken, and Mr. Barry predicted it would become an icon for residents on both sides of the Hudson. The president of the Hoboken City Council has already taken to referring to the skyscraper as "Hoboken's exclamation point," Mr. Barry said.

"The building will give New York something exciting to look at," he said, "and locally, people can look at it and think: 'Wow! This is Hoboken!' "

http://www.nytimes.com

[pianoman11686]

Rendering of the hotel from the same article:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/12/18/realestate/18njzo.jpg

[TimmyG]

I was by the W Hotel site in Hoboken today. It looks like they are getting ready to do foundation work. There was also a sign up showing a rendering of the building there that will be next to the hotel. Thankfully, no pyramid on the top of it.

[Ninjahedge]

I was by the W Hotel site in Hoboken today. It looks like they are getting ready to do foundation work. There was also a sign up showing a rendering of the building there that will be next to the hotel. Thankfully, no pyramid on the top of it.

I walk by it twice a day on the way to and from work.

They had two large stacks of things on the site for a while. I guess that was for surface consolidation/compaction, but I am not sure. Also, it looks like they have a bunch of standpipes and a few trial piers (probably site survey, checking blow count and water table levels).

I just wish they would start already. It is just collecting garbage now.....

[macmini]

The most exciting culturally anchored, transit-based, mixed-use community in Hoboken’s hottest market is yours to call home.
Immediately adjacent the 9th Street/Congress Street NJ Transit Light Rail Station and the core of Hoboken’s bourgeoning Northwest sub-market; Monroe Center is a luxury mixed-use development project with 435 condominiums, 125,000 square feet of retail, 1,120 parking spaces and the internationally renowned Monroe Center for the Arts. Monroe Center offers city living with a softer edge™. Features include stunning views of NYC, an emphasis on the arts, ample open space, rooftop gardens, a sense of community, and the charm of Hoboken.

http://www.monroecenter.com/images/residences-photo.jpg
ABOUT TO BREAK GROUND? The developers of the Monroe Center believe that their artist friendly and transit-accessible project will attract area home buyers.

Monroe Center Development, LLC is ready to break ground on Jan. 27 on a high-rise condominium tower at 800 Monroe St.
This will ultimately be part of a 435-unit development on a 5.5-acre site just steps from the Ninth Street stop of the Hudson Bergen Light Rail.

Not only is this one of the largest projects in the city, it is also one of the most ambitious. Just a decade ago the city's west side was filled with blighted and underutilized properties. But with Hoboken's real estate boom, and the western alignment of the Hudson Bergen Light Rail, the conditions were right for construction.
The developers hope to create a mixed use transit village, with condos, restaurants and shopping, while supporting and bolstering the local artist community.

Nuts and bolts

When completed, the Monroe Center project, which will be built between Seventh and Ninth streets on Monroe and Jackson streets, will include four high-rise residential buildings of between 10 and 13 stories, with ground floor retail, commercial arts space, and mezzanine space. The residential component will be built in several phases.
On Jan. 27, the developers are scheduled to break ground on the 123 unit tower at 800 Monroe St. This building will take between 16 and 18 months to complete, said the developers.

In addition, two former industrial buildings at 700 Monroe St. which house the Monroe Center for the Arts' office and loft spaces, theaters and galleries, are being completely renovated.
The total project also will include be 125,000 square feet of retail space.
Dil Hoda, the managing partner of the development team, added that he is looking forward to finally starting construction. "When we started out, many people this property was really far out on the west side of the city," Hoda said. "But now it's an area that is blossoming."

Artists and small businesses

Already underway is the renovation of the interior of the existing Monroe Center for the Arts at 720 Monroe St. Since opening in 1990, the converted Levelor Blinds Factory has maintained an eclectic mixture of businesses that now include ad agencies, interior designers, cake bakers, architects, toy makers, dance instructors, and yoga studios.
Over the years, the Monroe Center has gained the reputation for attracting some of the city's best artists and most innovative small businesses and entrepreneurs.

Currently, 95 percent of the 110,000 square feet of office space located within the center is being leased by 70 artists and 130 small businesses.

Hoda said that featuring the artists will helps everyone involved. "[The condo owners] will have full access to all of these services. Imagine being able to walk next door to take lessons from a Julliard-trained musician, or take a pottery or dance class. But the artists also benefit because they have a new customer base just steps way," Hoda said.

The new construction of the project will also include seven new artist work and live loft spaces, a two-screen independent movie theater, and a public open area with outdoor performance space.
An 'urban transit village'

Another selling point, said Hoda, is the project's location. Hoda said that because of the property's proximity to the light rail, this project will be a good example of the "smart growth" principle of a "transit friendly community."
A transit village is a state-promoted planning initiative to redevelop and revitalize communities around transit facilities, making them appealing choices for people to live in, while lessening their reliance on cars.
More than required parking

In Hoboken, parking is always an issue, and this is one of the few projects that will provide more parking spaces than the zoning requires. When fully built out, the project will have 1,120 garage parking spaces to complement the surrounding off-street parking.

Park space

According to the developers, outdoor areas at Monroe Center will include one large plaza with stylistic fountains, seating decks and a "hammock park." Each new building at the community will also feature rooftop gardens. "Monroe Center's appeal as a destination will be enhanced by its substantial outdoor public areas," points out Gerard Saddel, a partner of Monroe Center Development, LLC. "A series of public parks and a plaza will be scattered throughout the entire development."
According to the developers, condominiums will run between $450,000 and $1.5 million, and they expect to have a Web site and sales office open in the next month or so.

[JCMAN320]

This is where Hoboken fails to be a good neighbor and becomes pig headed and self-centred. Those towers better not be taller than the Palisades of the JC Heights above. JC has been trying to fight these stupid towers and Hobokens pompus mayor shurggs us off. Hoboken already f'd around with us with the those ugly towers near the 2nd Street Light-Rail station (which is in JC not Hoboken, they just try to make it their own, same as the 9th/Congress St. Lightrail station but atleast they included the Heights St. where the elevator goes to). Hoboken has some nerve they are not good neighbors at all. Again JC is still fighting to get those towers lower than the Palisades if they aren't already.

[macmini]

Sorry JCman I have to disagree with you why should people in the Heights be guaranteed views of NY. Alot of people in Downtown JC had views of NY before they started building 40 to 50 storey buildings. If it's any body being pigheaded it's people from the Heights. Think of the people who are going to buy at Trump Plaza who are paying 1mil + for their great views. Who don't know if Harborside 7 is built their views are gone no one is guranteed a view.

[Ninjahedge]

Sorry JCman I have to disagree with you why should people in the Heights be guaranteed views of NY. Alot of people in Downtown JC had views of NY before they started building 40 to 50 storey buildings. If it's any body being pigheaded it's people from the Heights. Think of the people who are going to buy at Trump Plaza who are paying 1mil + for their great views. Who don't know if Harborside 7 is built their views are gone no one is guranteed a view.

I partially agree with both of you on this.

I hate the "great wall of Hoboken" that is being built along River/Sinatra/Whatever they want to call it today, but at the same time, they have been doing this for a while on a lot of projects.

Also, somehow Hoboken should be the one made to feel guilty about building up when places like the Galaxy, the Doric and other multistory high rises have already been built OVER the edge of the Pallisades, blocking EVERYONE'S view behind them?

I do agree that they should try to keep hoboken's skyline below the pallisades if for one reason, keeping them visible to all, rather than building up. But calling Hoboken pompous while downtown JC is trying to be the next Downtown Brooklyn, especially with high rises built ON the water, is not exactly fair.

[JCMAN320]

Mac they shouldn't be sacrificed up there. What the hell did they do. That view has been there for centuries. The Palisades have been there since prehistoric times and the Heights has grown there over hundred years. So just because they are up there and "out of the way" that they should be spurned, I think not. I undertsand with Downtown but if you know anything about JC history where all those highrises were were rail yards and terminals and warehouses. So the people may have had the view from Grove and Newark, but they couldn't even get to the waters edge with out risking their lives. The waterfront has always been a reflection of the national economy. Back in the day it was industrial and in todays worlds it service jobs.

Ninja the highrises aren't built ON the water as you put it, they are built on the land that was once occupied by railyards and factories. Long Island City is starting down the same course as we did. When we were building it was building up a new economy when our city was in crisis and it just snowballed. I'm not saying Hoboken can't have a skyline, it think it's awesome. But right at the base of the Palisades is pushing the limit. I also agree that Guttenburg and West New York ruined their section of the Palisades.

[Ninjahedge]

I am talking about that monolith right at waters edge.

If that is not on the water, I do not know how you could get any closer without pontoons.

And yes, I have also worked on the design of several of the buildings that have gone up ON the piers, so I know what "on the woter" means literally.

Also, it still does not address the Doric, or the one building a bit further up, or the Galaxy, all high rises built not only on the edge of teh pallisades, but over them, constructing ugly scaffolding all over the side.

And then there are the popcorn condos going up all over the waterfront which do not block the view of the pallisades, but do mar their original stark profile.

I guess what I am saying JC is try not to demonize any one municipality. That never gets things done and only starts a fight. ;)

[JCMAN320]

Yea i agree the Dorifc and Galaxy and Troy towers suck. I still long for the day that they get torn down. I hear ya us Jerseyans especially in Hudson County have to stick together. :)

[TimmyG]

I hope the city council votes against using eminent domain on this factory. Aside from all the arguments for/against this type of eminent domain, Hoboken doesn't really need another block of apartments that will probably be exactly the same as all the other buildings put up on the west side of town.

Hoboken factory sits in city's crosshairs

HOBOKEN - D. Kwitman & Son is one of the last vestiges of the Mile Square City's industrial past.
But the factory - which has produced drapes and other home furnishings for the past 23 years - may soon be on its way out as the City Council is expected to vote tonight on whether to use the power of eminent domain to take the property, as well as a neighboring self-storage facility, and turn it over to condominium developer Ursa/Tarragon.
The Kwitman factory sits on a quiet cobblestone stretch of Grand Street near 10th Street in what was once an area of vacant and abandoned factories and warehouses.

In 1998, a 20-block area that included the old factory was condemned and slated for redevelopment by Ursa/Tarragon, which aims to build a six-story, 150-unit building with one level of parking. In return, the developer offered givebacks including open space, a supermarket, 200 units of affordable housing and a community center and swimming pool.
City officials say they have no choice but to honor the deal or face mounting legal challenges.

"This was not the dream of the developers; this was the dream of a community advisory panel," said Councilman Michael Cricco. "The agreement was done in 1998 and the town already appreciated the reward from the plan."

But some area residents say what seemed like a no-brainer a decade ago now has to be rethought given Hoboken's red-hot real estate market.
"This area is hardly in need of economic development," said Thomas Pini, a Grand Street resident who blasted the city's plan at a public meeting held last week. "I have a great problem with two viable businesses being seized by the government and turned over to developers."

Harold Kwitman, whose family has owned the business for 70 years, said if he's forced to sell, he will likely reopen in another location. However, he doesn't know where or when, and he worries some of his several dozen employees won't be able to follow him.

"The government and real estate developers are in a close relationship, and unfortunately this is the way it is," Kwitman said.

[Ninjahedge]

ONE parking level?

What frigging planet are they coming from?

They need at least 2 if you have 6 floors of residential above it!!!!


hell, I am in favor of developing these things, but you have to make sure that it does not make life harder for everyone else around it just because the developers are too greedy to build a functional attractive living space!

[TimmyG]

Originally Posted by Ninjahedge: They need at least 2 if you have 6 floors of residential above it!!!!
I think the six floors listed in the article includes the parking level (1 level of parking, 5 of housing). That would match the design of the other buildings in the area.

[TimmyG]

Hoboken Council greenlights seizure of two businesses



Friday, March 03, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN

JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
HOBOKEN - The City Council introduced an ordinance Wednesday to use eminent domain to seize two businesses on Grand Street and turn them over to a condominium developer, angering area residents who say the 150-unit building will destroy the character of the block.

"We purchased the condo specifically because it's a quiet neighborhood," said Maxie Plant, who lives across the street from the two properties. "By constructing a massive complex, it will extremely alter the character of the neighborhood."

The two properties - a factory and a self-storage facility - sit in the Northwest Redevelopment Zone, a 20-block area that runs from Seventh Street at the western edge of the city to the 14th Street Viaduct. In 1998, when the city approved the redevelopment plan, the area was overrun with vacant factories and warehouses.
Eight years later, the northern part of the city is rife with development, leaving many to wonder how the city can justify taking the property for the economic good of the city.
"We do understand that the plan was put into place eight years ago," said Grand Street resident Rick Hemmer. "We appreciate that fact, but things have changed."

City officials say they have no choice but to honor the redevelopment plan because the city has already realized benefits from the developer, Ursa/Tarragon.

In exchange for redevelopment rights to several parcels within the district, Ursa/Tarragon offered give-backs, including 200 units of affordable housing, open space, and a supermarket. The developers have also promised to build a community center and a swimming pool.

"It would be easy to say, 'let's not do it,'" said Councilman Michael Cricco. "But we are trying to do something right, and to do that we have to follow through with the process."

Stuart Deutsch, the dean of Rutgers Law School-Newark, said the law does not specifically address how long a redevelopment plan can remain in place.
"That is one of the questions unanswered in Kelo," said Deutsch, referring to the recent Supreme Court case that reaffirmed the government's right to hand over private property to developers as long as it provides for the public good.

Mark Settembre, a principal of Ursa/Tarragon, tried to allay residents' concerns at a meeting last week, promising to keep the style of the building in line with the architecture of the neighborhood and to preserve the cobblestone streets and trees.

"We have no problem designing it like a factory building," Settembre said. "But the buildings have to come down. This is part of a contract we made with the city and we have to fulfill it."

While all nine council members voted to introduce the ordinance, Councilman Peter Cammarano said his mind is not yet made up.
"I have concerns at the general level about the city using its eminent domain power to accomplish what we are trying to accomplish here," Cammarano said. "I am sympathetic to business owners who don't want to go out of business. I can't say we are not listening to their concerns."

Harold Kwitman, owner of D. Kwitman and Son, which has manufactured drapes and home furnishings in Hoboken for 23 years, said he does not want to relocate his business, which employs several dozen workers.
"I'm not thrilled," he said. "The cost to move is expensive and the cost to find a new place is expensive. I own the property outright and I can't even develop it myself. I can only sell it to one person."

[Ninjahedge]

I think the six floors listed in the article includes the parking level (1 level of parking, 5 of housing). That would match the design of the other buildings in the area.

Tim, I live there.

The other buildings in the area made the parking situation worse, not better.

Therefore, they should be building places, especially LARGE places, with more parking capacity than the TOTAL anticipated resident load. (IOW, Hoboken is filled with people between 25 and 40 years old. A lot of them meet someone and move in together in this area before they move out. Most have cars. So even a 1 unit to 1 parking space ratio is not enough. But I believe the current ratio required for building is some small 1 for every 2 or something similar.)

So the current regulations, and current building scheme does not work, therefore it should not be used as the standard for other structures being built in the area.

[Ninjahedge]

The two properties - a factory and a self-storage facility - sit in the Northwest Redevelopment Zone, a 20-block area that runs from Seventh Street at the western edge of the city to the 14th Street Viaduct

I hate to say it, but this area is not quiet, really. It is on the edge of the popcorn development going on around ShopRite.

Go for a walk around there and see how much neighborhood it will ruin.

The only thing that would be able to make that area worse would be flaming clown ninjas.

[NYatKNIGHT]

I agree, they blew it with this one.

[kitchie]

Hoboken is a nice place. If you want to spend time at ease there are great clubs by night and the crowd is great. Lots of pretty girls and of course lets talk about the food...pizzas are superb! They are right it is a much quieter place than Manhattan. :)

[ablarc]

Lots of pretty girls
You ain't kidding! Where do they all come from?

[Ninjahedge]

I will tell you one thing though. Most of them do not go out at night. I think they are werewolves or something.

If you want those women, you will have to go to the more expensive bars, or listen for dance, but not heavy dance music.

If they do not have a cosmo/martini menu then you will probably not find the Homo Yuppieus females in attendance ;)

Oh, the pizza is great. Grimaldis out on 1st (I think) is excellent thin pizza. I reccomend the basil and Mozz. Fillipos is decent. There are two of them (different guys). One on 1st again, and the other is up by 4th and Washington. Brnny Tudinos is great too, up near 5th-6th on Washington. And a great Super-Pizza can be had at Margharitas on the corner of 8th and Wash.


I would avoid Dominos (obviously) and an islamic pizza joint called 7 star (REALLY BAD!!!!). But there are still so many little places in there to find that you would like.


As for that back area, latest word is that it is going to be mostly residential and "6 restaurants". What a waste. We do not need any more restaurants. We need more mall-space (And I mean traditional outdoor shopping plazas and the like). All we have now is main street wiich is 90% realty agencies, cell phone stores, restaurants and bars.

Oh, word is also out on the Toll Brothers website about their development at MAxwell Place (right around the corner from me). They are selling, with no details on the SF, 1 bedroom places for a half mil and 2 bedroom for $900K.

It is rediculous. Luxury my butt!!!!

[macmini]

It is rediculous. Luxury my butt!!!!
If you think thats rediculous Ninjahedge then I'm sure you'll be happy to know that one bedrooms with direct views of NY are going for 700,000 - 800,000. An 2bd are well over 1mil and taxes for some units 12k but from the renderings it looks nice.

http://maxwellplace.com/media/residences/landscape_aerial.jpg

[ablarc]

http://maxwellplace.com/media/residences/landscape_aerial.jpg
Big, fat clunkers. Ought to be mix of slender towers and lower-rise on small footprints.

Elephantine. I bet the NIMBYs don't like them, and I bet they're the NIMBYs' children.

[Marv95]

Hoboken is expensive but nice, on the east side of town. You go toward the projects by Jackson Street, totally different story.

[ablarc]

^ Isn't it time they tore those down?

[JCMAN320]

^Why so no one can afford to live in Hoboken. Just for the super rich. I hope they replace them with affordable housing so those people can still enjpy Hoboken.

[Ninjahedge]

If you think thats rediculous Ninjahedge then I'm sure you'll be happy to know that one bedrooms with direct views of NY are going for 700,000 - 800,000. An 2bd are well over 1mil and taxes for some units 12k but from the renderings it looks nice.

http://maxwellplace.com/media/residences/landscape_aerial.jpg

Well, take that view, go left a block, and that is where I live.

I have been watching this develop since day one. +/-$900K for a 2BR.

They are already pre-ordered out by a bunch of real estate peeps who wnat to flip. I hope they all get burned.

[Ninjahedge]

^Why so no one can afford to live in Hoboken. Just for the super rich. I hope they replace them with affordable housing so those people can still enjpy Hoboken.

Oh, you mean like the Church Towers. The rent controlled low income housing that has a parking lot with Cadillacs and Lexus's just sitting there for the poor minimum wage workers to drive to work in?

The projects themselves are very bad. 7 foot fences all around the lawns so that people do not, well, use them. They made the same mistake they do with all projects. They stuck them all together. It is like day and night if you drive through Hoboken over in that section.

The best way to encourage and assimilate these people is make them feel like they belong rather than they are entitled to something they aren't. Build the projects, but make them comparable to the surrounding area AND make them more dispersed so as to not isolate and segregate them from the rest of the town.

There are other things that could be done, but not on a city level (such as only offering these places to people who help construct them ala houses for humanity, etc etc).

People have a tendency to appreciate things more when they have to work to get them, not when they are given to them, and that goes for all socioeconomic classes, not just the poor.

But that is off the subject.

Bottom line: The projects suck, they are too isolated and only concentrate the disparity. The suckiness is not the fault of the people living there, although they DO contribute to it (most of the car damage, such as smashed mirrors, broken antennas, key-ing and the like are from teens in these projects) the main cause of the deplorable situation is the town of Hoboken, and probably Hudson county, for their typical myopic way of "helping" the poor.

[czsz]

The rent controlled low income housing that has a parking lot with Cadillacs and Lexus's just sitting there for the poor minimum wage workers to drive to work in?

What's with those project parking lots? The ones in Manhattan ar filled with ridiculously expensive cars as well. Do project residents sell the rights to their spots? I'm not ready to believe they actually own those cars.

[antinimby]

I think fancy cars are status symbols in those communities. Psychologically and socially, poor people feel better about themselves and also to get respect from their peers by having expensive things. A down payment and monthly payments can get you the nicest cars.

[ablarc]

poor people feel better about themselves and also get respect from their peers by having expensive things.
So do the rest of us.

A down payment and monthly payments can get you the nicest cars.
But let me get this straight: they can afford expensive things and the nicest cars. Those are poor people, right?

.

What do you call people who can't afford expensive things and the nicest cars?

[antinimby]

So do the rest of us.More so for poor people.

But let me get this straight: they can afford expensive things and the nicest cars. Those are poor people, right?Poor does not mean they are without means. People manage, however difficult it may be for them, to get expensive things. Is it the wisest use of one's limited income? No, but self-esteem, pride and respect is very important when the rest of your life is bleek. In the ghettos, it is not uncommon to see designer clothes and shoes and a lot of jewelry in addition to the nice cars.

What do you call people who can't afford expensive things and the nicest cars?The middle class. ;)

[ablarc]

The middle class. ;)
LOL!!!

[Zoe]

I used to live on the same block as Church Towers. A lot of the people that live in that building got in from knowing someone. My neighbors said that a lot of city workers live in that building. The Fire chief and others in the city of that rank I also heard at one time or another lived there.

[ablarc]

Fool's gold?

At the end of the day you're still living in public housing.

[Ninjahedge]

What do you call people who can't afford expensive things and the nicest cars?

Immigrant Laborers. :o (Um, since when is a : o symbol a smileyface???)

[Ninjahedge]

I used to live on the same block as Church Towers. A lot of the people that live in that building got in from knowing someone. My neighbors said that a lot of city workers live in that building. The Fire chief and others in the city of that rank I also heard at one time or another lived there.

I heard something similar. Between the towers down on 2nd street and river to the church towers there are a lot of people that got in from knowing someone.

As for the cars and stuff, a lot of them are minimal on bling-age so they do not seem to be cars that were deliberately bought for show. But you are right. I see guys that are driving pimped escalades through the city that do not look like they can afford lunch at Burritoville. People lease and buy beyond their means. Why do you think our average credit card debt is so high?

[Hoboken411]

Hey Ninja, this is where you ended up? (FKI previously from HobokenChat)...

I've been running this new site (Hoboken411.com (http://hoboken411.com)) and there have been some posts regarding the Housing bubble and the overdevelopment in Hoboken/Jersey city.

How long can it last? You check the MLS listings and it only shows 500 or so on the market in Hoboken. I find that to be BULL. With all the new construction plus existing units for sale, I'd guess to say that number is more like 2000.

Hoboken411 got mentioned on this Bubble Tracking site. (http://bubbletrack.blogspot.com/2006/04/more-on-hoboken-housing-bubble-plus.html)

What is going on? Corporate Greed? Buyer/Seller anxiety? Peer pressure?
The costs are WAY out of line, they should be 2.5x annual income.. not 10x or higher. I can imagine 4x at most for a top of the line place.

There will be a bigger correction then they predict. They can only fudge the statistics for so long, no?

Take a look and share your thoughts please.

Oh, and if anyone one care to allow me to take some pictures of their units at the Zephyr, I'd appreciate it.

[zephyrgirl]

"Oh, and if anyone one care to allow me to take some pictures of their units at the Zephyr, I'd appreciate it."

seeing as you're not a fan of the zephyr (from your posts on the other site regarding it & 700 grove) what pray tell would you do with said photos of the zephyr interior? just wondering/confused why anyone would oblige after you sort of trashed it?

[JCMAN320]

Zephyr is in Jersey City.

[Hoboken411]

Sorry if I came across as "trashing" them. I'm sure they're nice properties, that wasn't my point. You know the housing market is a very hot topic these days, and perhaps the more discussion that takes place it can shed more light on what the situation is, as well as what we, as members of society are thinking, what motivates us, where we get our data, etc. Life is a learning process. It's nice to know what others are thinking, in my opinion.

Although there are personal and editorial observations and opinions on the site, we invite conversation as well and provide information about the locations, so people viewing can see more than just a random rant. I guess it's one step beyond a phone book or directory. And it's not one-sided, as you can see by the welcoming of comments.

I know they're in JC, but the close proximity to Hoboken makes it relevant. The site will expand to the surrounding cities and towns over time.


Thanks and have a great week.

[injcsince81]

Sorry if I came across as "trashing" them. I'm sure they're nice properties, that wasn't my point. You know the housing market is a very hot topic these days, and perhaps the more discussion that takes place it can shed more light on what the situation is, as well as what we, as members of society are thinking, what motivates us, where we get our data, etc. Life is a learning process. It's nice to know what others are thinking, in my opinion.

Although there are personal and editorial observations and opinions on the site, we invite conversation as well and provide information about the locations, so people viewing can see more than just a random rant. I guess it's one step beyond a phone book or directory. And it's not one-sided, as you can see by the welcoming of comments.

I know they're in JC, but the close proximity to Hoboken makes it relevant. The site will expand to the surrounding cities and towns over time.


Thanks and have a great week.

Hoboken411 - you are railing about "corporate greed" on your site which you are pushing here.

Are you also driven by greed?

I don't go to wirednewyork.com to be spammed by you.

Go away (or post like everyone else and don't push your blogs).

[Hoboken411]

First of all, my site is non-profit.

Secondly, I referenced the posts because they were relevant to the topic at hand. I just stumbled upon this site, and posted innocently. If I expected to be chastised by the senior members of the site, I wouldn't have posted. Pardon me for expecting a more welcoming group.:confused:

Is this a forum to boast about JC and surrounding areas or is it receptive to open discussions regardless of viewpoint?

Believe me, I'm not the only one with certain opinions, there are countless others that feel similarly.

And there are other sources outside of this board that some people may find interesting. Considering "reference" SPAM is a bit conceited, no?

I happen to find this board very interesting, regardless of whether I agree with what's being stated.

If you think I'm here to "promote" something, you're wrong. I'd like to hear what others have to say. Plain and simple.

But I won't mention any blog anymore, I'll just quote without pointing reference to them. But it doesn't hurt to look around from time to time.

Thanks for the receptive welcome.

[Ninjahedge]

Actually H411, some of these people that are "welcoming" you are not the meat and potatoes of this site....

That being said, you also have to realize, from the very get-go that this is not (for the most part) a heated site. Peolpe do not rant at each other (witha few exceptions). The very things that drove me from the other site are the things that keep me coming back here.

So long as you keep that in mind, there shouldn't be much of a problem.

As for what is going on at the Zephyr, I have no clue. I have not been following that one. As for development in Hoboken and the paucity of listings, I am wondering if it is a controlled release, or, as in most cases, the houses and units are "pre-listed" and sold before they are even officially on the market.

The "flipper" crew is starting to want (most of them real estate agents themselves) and we should start to see more of an emergence of available housing as the market slows, and possibly gluts with teh completion of Maxwell Place, the buldings along Observer, and the whole slew of Box-Condos going wp out by the old former warehouse district (near 10th and Madison).


My major dissapointment in all of this is the lack of quality construction on most of these developments. They all smack of fast-track design-build projects that put in a marble countertop and jacuzzi tub to jack the price up by $50K-$100K and call it "luxury" while at the same time their generic windows and doors have their sealant start to fall out 5 years after construction.

Add to it the fact that I have seen, and heard NOTHING about infrastructure improvement. Unless, of course, you count that useless traffic light by the Path station as "infrastructure", in which case we probably spent too much. ;)


On that note, Welcome to the forum!

[JCMAN320]

I'm welcoming you Hoboken 411, I was just saying that Zephy was in JC thats all. :) In all seriousness welcome to the forum bro.

[Hoboken411]

cool. thanks.

[TimmyG]

Does anyone know what's going on with the old shell of a building on 15th street in Hoboken? It's the ten floor building near the Lipton Tea buildings that has been an empty shell for a number of years. I have noticed workers there lately. It looks like they are cleaning off the outside. My guess is, it's going to be more apartments like the Lipton Tea buildings are now.

[NYatKNIGHT]

It's about time, that shell of a building has been an eyesore for way too long.

[TimmyG]

Hoboken OKs garage plan in rush to sell


Thursday, May 11, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN

JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
HOBOKEN - The City Council approved a "compromise" plan for the 1-acre municipal garage site last week, sparking a mad dash to sell the property in time to infuse $5 million into the city coffers before the end of the 2006 fiscal year.
"We tried to put together a plan that is broad enough to attract developers and narrow enough to let the city do what it needs to do," said Lane Bajardi, chairman of the Observer Highway Advisory Committee. "This is not the end of the process; it is the beginning of the busiest part of the process."
The ordinance was adopted May 3; a day later, officials had already posted a request for proposals on the city's Web site - which must be received by 11 a.m. on May 26.
In order to use the revenue to plug the budget, the city must complete the sale by June 30.
The RFP calls for a 240-unit complex that will stand seven stories, with a nine-story component on the southwestern portion of the lot.
The ground floor level calls for 10,000 to 15,000 square feet of ground floor retail, community services, artists' studios, or "certain other uses to provide convenient shopping and services to the surrounding community."
In addition to winning a 25-year tax abatement, the developer must enter into a 24-month leaseback agreement, giving the city time to relocate its municipal garage to another location.

[Ninjahedge]

Fire at Helmers last night at about 4:30.

From what I could see (from my window) looks like it was on teh 2nd floor and went upwards from there.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4162056#

[TimmyG]

Fire rips through Hoboken building (from the Jersey Journal)

A woman and her cat were trapped on the fourth floor of a burning building this morning in Hoboken, as 20-foot flames on the fire escape blocked her exit, officials said.

Officials are unsure how the fire started at the four-story apartment building on 11th and Washington streets but heavy flames, smoke and water damage left the tenants temporarily homeless, said Battalion Chief Joseph La Bruno.

The fire started at 4:42 a.m. in a second floor unit above Helmer’s restaurant, reports said.

The fire quickly spread to the top three stories but firefighters were able to prevent the blaze from reaching other attached buildings, said Deputy Chief August Schwarz.

Flames as high as twenty feet burst out the windows and the smoke could be seen throughout Hoboken, said La Bruno.

In the midst of fighting the blaze, La Bruno heard a woman screaming from the top floor of the building, he said.

“She was standing near the window and I thought she was holding a baby in her arms,” said La Bruno. “I don’t know if she was panic-stricken . . . there were 20-foot flames coming out of the window onto the fire escape two floors down. She couldn’t get down that way.”

La Bruno said firefighters rescued the woman using a ladder and saw it was a cat, not a baby, she had bundled in her arms.

She was taken to a nearby hospital for smoke inhalation, said La Bruno.

Other tenants in the building escaped on their own and many have been given shelter by the Hudson County Chapter of the Red Cross, said La Bruno. Three firefighters also sustained minor injuries, said Schwarz.

North Hudson Regional Fire and Rescue and Jersey City fire departments helped Hoboken firefighters extinguish the blaze by 6 a.m.

Carly Baldwin

[Zoe]

The building you are asking about on 15th is part of the Hudson Tea Building project. It will be converted into residences and there are 2 or 3 other buildings that will be built where some of those parking lots are now between 14 and 15th.

[TimmyG]

(From the Jersey Journal)


Radio tower removal begins



Friday, June 02, 2006

HOBOKEN - NJ Transit will begin demolishing the radio tower on the Hoboken Terminal today, making way for a replica of the clock tower that stood on the terminal when the building was constructed in 1907.
"The plan to reconstruct the historic tower is great news for the City of Hoboken," Mayor David Roberts said. "I have long been an advocate of historic preservation and restoration, and I applaud every effort to celebrate Hoboken's past, as well as one of our community's most historic landmarks."
NJ Transit officials expect to have the radio demolished by Monday, weather permitting.
In the fall, NJ Transit will erect the steel framework for the new clock tower, modeled after the 1907 design by artist Kenneth Murchinson. Officials expect the new clock tower to be completed by next summer.
"Replacing Hoboken Terminal's clock tower is a milestone in our effort to transform the facility to better serve residents, visitors, and customers," NJ Transit Executive Director George Warrington said.
The replacement of the clock tower - which was weakened by a storm and removed in 1950 - is part of a $53.9 million restoration project to restore the terminal to its original design.
BONNIE FRIEDMAN

[TimmyG]

Hoboken sets vote on redeveloping 15-block area



Wednesday, June 21, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN

JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
HOBOKEN - The City Council is expected tonight to designate 15 blocks in the southwestern portion of the city as an area in need of redevelopment - the latest in a string of new redevelopment zones.
The vote comes one day before the state Assembly is likely to vote on a bill that would significantly curb the power of municipalities to take private property.
But Mayor David Roberts said the 13-acre area - bounded by Paterson Avenue and Observer Highway to the north, and Jersey City to the south and west - would likely meet the more stringent criteria.
The 31 properties within the area comprise a mix of industrial and commercial uses, surface parking, stacked car storage, vacant lots, two residences and a holding area for police horses and other animals.
Roberts said the city will look to create mixed-use commercial and residential, improve the streets and sidewalks, and add trees and open space.
But unlike another longtime redevelopment zone in the northwest, Roberts said the city will not look to award the entire 15-block area to a single developer, choosing instead to encourage individual property owners to develop smaller sites.
"This is not a hostile takeover of private property to a second private developer," Roberts said.
The decision to allow for numerous redevelopers fits with the proposed Assembly bill.
John Buonocore, an attorney specializing in eminent domain lawsuits, faulted the administration for failing to simply re-zone the district.

[Ninjahedge]

Crap.

What they need over there is a set of SOCCER FIELDS! Nevermind "rows of trees" and all that crap. We have enough places to walk up and down and have sunbathers lie there doing nothing. We need a legit sports area for all the people here. FCS, we only have one small basketball area in the main park and one soccer field that used to be just an open grass area (Sinatra Park).

What we need is a rec field. One with some cameras and fences (unfortunately) but a rec field none-the-less.

[Zoe]

I agree with you. Open space is what the town needs. The Northwest area is really starting to look lame with those entire city block developements that have been going up back there. I fear more of the same

[Ninjahedge]

I agree with you. Open space is what the town needs. The Northwest area is really starting to look lame with those entire city block developements that have been going up back there. I fear more of the same

You mean those rubber-stamp full-block condos?

One of the worst, in regards to space, is that one right by the HS park. They built it so close to all the property lines you can graba kid off the swingset from your balcony.

OTOH, you have the east side, which is building the "great wall of Hoboken".

I am just wondering when they are going to build ones completely out in the Hudson.

[ablarc]

Open space is what the town needs.
Parking lots are open space. Replace parking lots with parks.

The parking can be put in handsomely-styled multi-story garages with ground floor shops.

[Ninjahedge]

Parking lots are open space. Replace parking lots with parks.

The parking can be put in handsomely-styled multi-story garages with ground floor shops.


Heh.

Heheh.....

HAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAAA!!!!!


Oh, sorry. Trying to get Hoboken to build parking lots is like trying to get politicians to be honest and serve their electorate....in Hoboken that is.

Anyway, they have lots of open lots here and there, one of the most obvious being right next to the PATH station. They have a small lot and an abandoned 2 story row-building that is just doing nothing. If the PA just sold that building with teh stipulation for a shared parking space in a new lot to be built at that corner it would help a lot of things.

First, the lot would be close to the train station, the path, and close to the Turnpike/Holland tunnel.

People, if they wanted to, could opt to take the TP down to Hoboken and park at the station for rush hour. This would also make it easier to ask the state for extra $$ to fix up Observer Highway to enable things like new pavement and timed lights that would facilitate such a traffic pattern.

It would also reduce the amount of people that would try to do things like spot surfing on the local roads.

So long as the lot itself was regulated to reasonable charges (say in lieu of a percentage of their tax) it could help the area signifiantly.

Include the plaza level as you are saying (at least along that first little strip there, I forgot its name...) would also be nice, but sometimes that is difficult to accomplish (the ramp needed to get to the upper floors does take some space)....


I just wish they take some time and think about what the area needs and how they can get it with as little burden to the taxpayer as possible. They have a lot of money being made in real estate in this tiny little town, they should concentrate on how some of it could be spent to keep Hoboken a desirable area for a long time coming, not just for the last throws of the bubble and before the pre-fab units start to evidence their "workmanship".

[ablarc]

^ When you use the word "lot" do you mean "garage"? There's all the difference in the world between the two. One can be an integral, productive and efficient use of land in the city, the other is invariably a destructive waste: the very absence or amputation of the city.

[Ninjahedge]

Abl, is there any real reason for focusing on the little somantics used in my presentation?

Lets move on with this, K? You know what I am talking about, don't get me started with nit picking (we know where that usually ends up)... ;)

[ablarc]

Abl, is there any real reason for focusing on the little somantics used in my presentation?

Lets move on with this, K? You know what I am talking about, don't get me started with nit picking (we know where that usually ends up)... ;)
Sorry you thought I was nit-picking; I went to some pains to explain why I thought it was important to distinguish a lot from a garage.

For decades the Census Bureau referred to suburbia as "urban." We all know the damage that caused. Among other things, it encouraged use of the oxymoronic term, "urban sprawl." Thank God, that's over, and the culprit is now correctly identified.

Just so, parking lots are bad and parking garages are OK. All they have in common is storing cars, but otherwise they're opposites.

Btw, at the risk of setting you off, it's "semantics." ;) :)

[lofter1]

... focusing on the little somantics ...

The emerging artistic movement of SOMA (http://www.drugs.com/cons/Soma.html) + Detroit Rock (http://www.romanticsdetroit.com/)

http://www.romanticsdetroit.com/music/images/xlittle-white-lies-front.jpg (http://www.romanticsdetroit.com/music/little-lies.html)

[Ninjahedge]

nit nit nit

[TimmyG]

Hoboken moving to take block for new park near Light Rail


Tuesday, June 27, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN

JOURNAL STAFF WRITER
HOBOKEN - The City Council is expected to adopt a resolution tomorrow night that will allow the city to begin the process of taking an entire block in the southwest - part of Mayor David Roberts' plan to add 20 acres of park land to the Mile Square City.
The administration's move to acquire the 4-acre parcel - which serves as a parking storage facility and abuts the Hudson Bergen Light Rail at Observer Highway between Marshall Drive and Harrison Street - comes one week after dozens of angry residents flocked to a City Council meeting to oppose designation of a redevelopment zone in that portion of the city.
Roberts said he hopes this latest action will show he is committed to adding sorely needed parks.
"I need to demonstrate to the neighborhood and the people of Hoboken where the parks are going to be," said Roberts, who crafted the plan alongside Councilman Ruben Ramos. "I believe the public will have a higher level of tolerance to new development when they are able to enjoy an upgrade of the neighborhood in general."
According to the resolution, the property - which is owned by Academy Bus Company - is assessed at $4.2 million.
Once the resolution passes, city officials can begin reviewing environmental records, titles and appraisals in anticipation of eventually taking the property through eminent domain.
Roberts said he isn't expecting a drawn-out battle with Academy, given that the company owns large swaths of property throughout the city.
One of the other properties Roberts is looking to take is also owned by Academy and sits near the Light Rail at 15th Street.
Representatives at Academy Bus Company did not return phone calls seeking comment.
The other properties Roberts is eyeing are an 81/2-acre site at Jefferson and 13th streets, and a 6-acre site just east of the future Maxwell House Park.
The new southwest park is the first of four properties the administration is looking to acquire with revenue from the sale of the city's municipal garage on Observer Highway.

[Ninjahedge]

Maxwell House Park is on the river. How far east can you go?

Are they thinking of the drydock? Or the land that is part of the Maxwell House development.

Man, Toll Brothers is nito EVERYTHING now! I would have more respect for them if they would have done things like show renderings of the buildings proposed rather than smiling models nowhere near the site and spending $$$$ on a storefront downtown that costs more than a condo.

As for the parks, I see where they are proposing, and I am all for it. But they also need to do a bit more commercial development around the Shop Rite. All these buildings going in and there are little, if any new restaurants, shops, or other stores in the area. The development going up right next to Shop Rite looks like a slightly sunken garage at ground floor with little, if any windows or storefront development. It will be yet another box to join all the other boxes up in that area.

Roberts et. all. need to think of the long term here or we will just have "Yuppie Short Term Storage" in hoboken until the pre-fab condos start to deteriorate and all the flippers divest their holdings.

[TimmyG]

Maxwell House Park is on the river. How far east can you go?
Maybe it means the little tongue of land where the construction workers park their cars now. I think there is a sign near the development showing that as a park.

[Ninjahedge]

You mean another sunbathers parking lot.

:(

[TimmyG]

You mean another sunbathers parking lot.

:(

Probably. I would be surprised if it had a playing field.

[hello]

fire on 14th between bloomfield and garden (above shuttered la scala) - anyone have details/info? seemed helmers-style. big, maybe from second floor.

[hello]

My first place was in Hoboken when I moved to the NYC area. I *hated* it. Absolutely hated it.

Sure, the brownstones were pretty, the waterfront nice, and all of the asian-fusion restaurants palatable, but the people, my god, the PEOPLE!
These are the people who are either too scared to live in New York or too name-obsessed to live in Queens or Brooklyn, or Harlem or somewhere else. The town was so homogenous in the worst way possible. Hoboken types are generally one of the following:

1. the B.A. degree white girl from suburban philadelphia, suburban new jersey or somewhere else. likely went to villanova, northeastern, or another second-tier university. was probably in a sorority. sticks largely to manhattan west of 6th ave. if possible.

2. the frat-boy young wall street worker who only lives there to meet type 1. Can be seen starting fights at an overpriced bar where they serve beer in really large mugs with really large TV's showing really large football players.

Needless to say, I was neither, so I moved to Brooklyn and don't regret it. I didn't move to New York to live in a place like Hoboken... it was basically suburban Dallas with brownstones and a subway.

lol, needs an update. families, families, families. many more established professionals (vs. newly-minted wall-st-ers). and now, indeed, evidence that some residents work in midtown manhattan (vs. wall st).

[TriHobo]

HOBOKEN - A four-alarm fire in a 14th Street building damaged two apartments and injured a firefig