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Kris
August 22nd, 2003, 02:38 PM
http://www.geocities.com/asiaglobe/gallery/niagara-us.htm

TLOZ Link5
August 22nd, 2003, 09:57 PM
The Canadian city of Niagara Falls, from what I've heard, is much more prosperous than its American counterpart. *Sad that so many upstate cities are total rustbelts.

Kris
August 22nd, 2003, 10:38 PM
The Canadian side has what matters: the view of the falls, not that of its own ugly skyline. Add the advantage of the currency.

At least the few visible NY buildings look pretty decent.

TLOZ Link5
August 23rd, 2003, 11:36 AM
Even if most of them are vacant, that is.

Kris
September 11th, 2003, 11:10 PM
http://www.byerlyphoto.com/images/NFalls1-L.jpg

Max Power
October 6th, 2003, 04:03 AM
The Canadian side has what matters: the view of the falls, not that of its own ugly skyline.
I find your comment about the skyline on the Canadian side strange Kris. I don't believe you've ever been to Niagara Falls (correct me if I'm wrong). The skyline on the Canadian side is actually really nice. It's huge for a city of 70,000, and most of it has been built in the last 10 years. The American side doesn't have a skyline. It has 1 tall building (the brown one), and one tall observation elevator thingy that goes down to the river.

The Canadian side is nicer, cleaner, safer, and more exciting, with WAY more stuff to do. This is reflected with far more hotel rooms than the American side, and far more attractions.

Kris
October 6th, 2003, 05:05 AM
Join the office of tourism.

ablarc
October 6th, 2003, 11:25 AM
The American Falls are moving upstream at a fair clip, measured in geological time. Evidence of this is all those boulders that mar the view; most were not there fifty years ago. Eventually, these falls will more closely resemble rapids.

ZippyTheChimp
October 6th, 2003, 12:01 PM
Geology! My other favorite subject. Way to go, ablarc.

It is believed the origin of the falls is 7 miles downstream about 12,000 years ago. The erosion rate was 30 ft per decade until the 1950s when water was diverted for varoious power plants. The present erosion is 1 ft per decade.
http://www.niagara-info.com/erosion.gif


The flow at American Falls was stopped in 1969 to study the feasibility of removing the rock rubble at the base. It was determined to be too expensive.
http://www.niagarafallslive.com/images/American_Falls_1969.jpg

ablarc
October 7th, 2003, 12:42 AM
Fascinating photograph: just switch off the falls. Most of the water runs through pipes and turbines anyway. Still, getting rid of the rocks at the base would enhance the majesty of the American Falls. The Canadian Falls are still OK.

Max Power
October 7th, 2003, 12:47 AM
Join the office of tourism.
Sure Kris. Can you get me an interview? Reading all your comments about New York, it seems you already work for the office of tourism. Or are you New York's official Swiss representative now?

NoyokA
October 7th, 2003, 01:03 AM
The Canadian side has gambling and a skyline....

Go figure>!

Kris
October 7th, 2003, 05:31 AM
Who knew?

Kris
December 27th, 2003, 08:47 AM
December 27, 2003

As Tribe Plans Hotel for Casino, Niagara Falls Weighs Effects

By STACEY STOWE

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/27/nyregion/hote.large.jpg
The Seneca Niagara Casino opened last year in downtown Niagara Falls, N.Y. Casino officials say that construction of a 600-room hotel for the complex will start in the spring and take 16 months.

After opening a casino in downtown Niagara Falls, N.Y., the Seneca Indian tribe will begin construction next spring of a $140 million hotel the tallest building in the city skyline as part of the gambling complex.

The hotel is to stand 26 floors high and have 600 rooms, including those reserved for high rollers, and a full-service spa. A top-floor lounge will have a view of the falls and of the Niagara Gorge. Construction should be completed in 16 months, said Mickey Brown, president and chief executive of Seneca Niagara Casino.

Luring tourists from Ontario, where the Rainbow Falls are more picturesque, to the New York side has never been easy. The Canadians poured money and attention into developing their natural wonder into an attraction, including opening a government-backed casino in 1996. Efforts to promote tourism on the New York side, however, have been rather wan, said Byron W. Brown, a state senator whose district includes Niagara Falls.

So far, the 88,000-square-foot Seneca Niagara Casino, which opened last year, has not inspired a building frenzy in the city, where a chemical and manufacturing industry once thrived. In the 1950's, as many as 100,000 people lived here. Today, the population is about 55,950, said Cynthia Baxter, the city clerk. About 700 of them work at the casino.

The state is expected to receive $40 million based on casino slot machine revenue. Under an agreement between the Seneca Nation and New York State, the state will receive 18 percent of the casino slot revenue from Seneca Niagara Falls Gaming Corporation, which operates the casino. The state is expected to allot the city of Niagara Falls 25 percent of that share or $10 million. The question is how the money will be spent and when it will arrive. A seven-member commission that includes the mayor and three members of the State Legislature, including Senator Brown, one of two nonvoting members, will decide how the money is apportioned.

But some elected officials and business owners are concerned that the new project could hurt downtown businesses and might not help revive its flagging property tax base.

Vince V. Anello, who will become mayor in January, said the city's casino allotment should be used to compensate for property tax revenue lost when the tribe built downtown; the 55-acre parcel owned by the Seneca Nation is exempt from taxes. The city's tax base has been declining for the past 30 years, he said. When he takes office, just $250,000 will be available to pay city expenses until property tax payments are collected. He noted that other commission members have said that all of the money should be spent on downtown redevelopment.

Mr. Anello, who said he was happy to have the casino and hotel downtown, noted that downtown businesses are somewhat in the shadow of the casino, which has its own bar and restaurant, and soon, a hotel.

"The people in Niagara Falls have been struggling for years," said Mr. Anello, who has lived here since 1956. "The casino was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel for downtown development."

But Mr. Brown said those concerns were outside the scope of his casino, which he said brought five million people to Niagara Falls this year.

"We're not a social service agency," said Mr. Brown, who was president of Foxwoods Casino in Connecticut from 1992 to 1997. "I think we've made our contribution. It's up to them to work on private sector development."

Asked about another construction project on the horizon for the city, a state-financed $17 million conference center, Mr. Anello said flatly, "Another nonrevenue-producing project."


Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

TLOZ Link5
December 30th, 2003, 10:56 PM
The casino could very well do more harm than good. People might just be lured to the city for the casino rather than for the city itself. That would hurt Main Street businesses.

Kris
January 3rd, 2004, 09:32 AM
January 3, 2004

Niagara's Trickle-Down Theory: Waiting to Share Casino's Success

By DAVID STABA

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/01/03/nyregion/casino.184.jpg
Steve Fournier Jr., right, whose business at the Cafe Etc. bar is booming, and his father, Steve Fournier Sr., who closed his pizzeria next door in Niagara Falls, N.Y.

NIAGARA FALLS, N.Y., Jan. 2 A year after the opening of western New York's first casino, the drinks are flowing in a decidedly Niagara-like way at Cafe Etc., a martini bar that Steve Fournier Jr. opened just around the corner.

But last Monday, Mr. Fournier's father closed his pizza shop next door after nearly a quarter-century of operating businesses in the decaying downtown tourist district.

The mixed fortunes of the Fourniers are a mirror of the city's as it waits to find out whether the Seneca Niagara Casino will live up to the hopes raised on New Year's Eve 2002 as the first coins dropped in the slot machines: that the Indian-owned gambling hall would help lift Niagara Falls out of its economic tailspin.

Steve Fournier Sr. said the steady exodus of industrial and white-collar jobs over the last 30 years had eroded his customer base. "The casino helped," Mr. Fournier, 52, said as he cleaned out his pizza kitchen. "But it didn't help enough to make up for what we had lost previously."

His son, however, planned on drawing casino workers and executives rather than counting on gamblers to tear themselves away from the slot machines and blackjack tables. He took a former dance club, restored its vintage wood bar, scrubbed and painted it, and started booking live jazz acts. So far, the plan seems to be working.

"Any time you've got 2,000 people working down the street from this kind of place, it's got to be good for business," said Mr. Fournier, 31.

No one doubts the casino is thriving. It took in $4 billion during its first year, casino officials say, and draws an estimated crowd of 10,000 to 12,000 people on weekdays, and double that on weekends.

But it remains to be seen whether the booming trade will spill out beyond the curved shell, reminiscent of an oversize Quonset hut, that houses the gambling operation.

Even the casino's strongest advocates concede that the kind of development boom that transformed the city's Canadian neighbor Niagara Falls in Ontario after a casino opened there in 1996 has yet to take place on the American side.

"It's helped some businesses in the area, but I don't think the general economy of the city has changed at this point," said Mayor Vince V. Anello, who was sworn in on Thursday. "It's certainly brought new attention to our city and attracted new investors."

A state-financed effort to turn a long-vacant downtown building a block from the casino into a high-tech meeting center is scheduled to be completed in the spring.

On Dec. 26, officials of the Seneca Gaming Corporation, which operates the casino, announced plans to build a 26-story, $140 million hotel, restaurant and entertainment complex adjacent to the casino. Some fear that the new complex will siphon customers from other hotels and businesses downtown, without providing revenue to help rebuild the city around it, because the 55-acre parcel owned by the Seneca Nation is exempt from taxes. Others, though, say that the more development, the more tourists and investors the city will draw.

Other projects proposed by private companies and the USA Niagara Development Corporation, a state economic development agency, remain either in planning or stalled by jurisdictional disputes.

It may be too soon to expect the kind of boom that remade the Canadian city, many officials say.

"The major development there didn't happen for two years after the casino opened," said State Senator George D. Maziarz, a vocal proponent of Albany's casino compact with the Seneca Nation. "There hasn't been as much spinoff as we'd like to see, but that's going to take time."

Niagara Falls Redevelopment, supported by the New York City financier Howard Milstein, owns or holds options on 142 acres near the casino. The company announced plans in August to spend $110 million in five years to develop hotels, restaurants and other attractions.

But Roger Trevino, a vice president of the company, said tourism-industry investors were waiting to see if the steady flow of casino patrons continues.

"There's a consistent stream of traffic, which is what developers, retailers and the hospitality industry would like to see," Mr. Trevino said. "Most people we've talked to would like to see a fuller track record, to make sure it's not a curiosity."

Both state and city officials hope to parlay their portions of casino revenues into making the city more attractive to outside investors. Under terms of the casino compact, the state is scheduled to receive $38 million in the next few weeks as its share from Seneca Niagara's first year, with about $9.5 million of that going to the city.

Mr. Anello, a Democrat, and Mr. Maziarz, a Republican, hold two of the five seats on a commission overseeing the distribution of the city's casino money. While they have differed on how the revenue should be spent, both said the bulk should go toward infrastructure and housing projects. Those needs are glaring within a few blocks of the casino, where vacant buildings, crumbling curbs and cracked sidewalks line potholed streets.

"Hopefully, they'll use the money to clean things up a little bit," said Chance Gabrus, 31, a printer who lives here. "It seems like things are changing here, and the casino is putting some fresh air back into the area."

Other businesses near the casino, like Surjit Bajwa's service station, have gotten a lift from casino patrons and employees, as well as construction workers who renovated the former convention center and are building a 2,400-car parking garage, part of which opened this week.

Mr. Bajwa, a New York City native who moved here almost three years ago, said he planned to expand his business to include a fast-food franchise.

"It's been a good boost for business," he said of the casino. "So far, there's been no downside."

USA Niagara announced plans last fall to help smaller entrepreneurs refurbish the Third Street commercial district, where the Fourniers do business. Some private investors are not waiting for government assistance to spruce things up, though.

Daniel W. Vecchies and his family have spent more than $500,000 buying and renovating properties on the same block as Mr. Fournier's bar. Mr. Vecchies's Shadow Martini Bar and Restaurant opened in October, and he plans to have a steakhouse operating across the street by next tourist season.

"Forty years of decline isn't going to turn around overnight," Mr. Vecchies said. "The casino is like a gold mine for this city and people like me have to think, `What's the best way to mine that gold?' "

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Kris
June 29th, 2004, 02:42 PM
http://www.fotop.net/muchswatch/niagara

TLOZ Link5
July 4th, 2004, 03:05 PM
Niagara Falls, New York used to have over 100,000 people at its peak in the 50s and 60s. Now, it has around 50,000. Its decline is similar to that of Buffalo and other upstate cities, though a better parallel might be drawn to Gary, Indiana or Youngstown, Ohio cities of similar size and prosperity that have also lost huge portions of their populations, going from six digits to five.

tmg
December 7th, 2004, 03:47 PM
The Buffalo News
October 11, 2004

FALLS, ONT., GETS GO-AHEAD TO GROW BIGGER, TALLER;
MORE HIGH-RISE HOTELS ARE PLANNED TO HANDLE THE ANTICIPATED GROWTH IN TOURISM

By Bill Michelmore - NEWS NIAGARA BUREAU

NIAGARA FALLS, ONT. - The skyline on the Canadian side of the falls is like an impressive painting that's not even half finished.

Already the envy of frustrated planners and residents on the American side, this city has the green light to grow even bigger and taller.

A second tier of high-rise hotels is planned behind the existing string of skyscrapers in the Central Tourist District, just south of the Rainbow Bridge.

That second string of buildings will be taller and more slender than the current structures, with at least a building-width of space between them. That design has a purpose: It allows the falls' mist to fan out over a greater area and permit more sunlight to stream over the falls, architects believe.

"We want to give the skyline room to breathe," said Douglas Darbyson, the city's director of planning. "The buildings will be taller so people in the second tier can see over the existing tier."

In addition to the aesthetic factor, the city's new urban design has an "over-the-shoulder" effect.

The City Council approved the new concept after commissioning a Toronto consulting firm, the IBI Group, to do an urban design study.

"A greater variety of building heights can contribute to a more varied appearance, especially from the American side," the report stated in its overview. "It will create visual depth and reduce the impression that the Tourist District is creating a wall condition along the escarpment."

No limit will be set on height, but the width of the hotels at the base must not exceed 131 feet -- some existing buildings are considerably more than that -- and the structures must rise in ever narrowing gradations.

Tall, narrow buildings

"Right now, we have a wall effect," Mayor Ted Salci said. "This is a whole new concept that avoids any future extension of that wall. All new buildings will be tall and narrow."

The existing Hilton Hotel at the corner of Fallsview Boulevard and Murray Street is the first example of what the new design plan will bring.

Architects of an $84 million (U.S.) Hilton expansion were asked to get away from the slab-like appearance that officials said characterizes many of the existing buildings, and come up with a tall, slender tower design.

The 58-story expanded Hilton tower will be the city's tallest, outreaching the Skylon Tower, the city's current leading skyscraper, by about 100 feet. Even skyscraper-packed Toronto has only three office towers that are taller.

The new Hilton will be nearly three times higher than the tallest building on the New York side of the border, the 20-story United Office Building.

Construction will start before the end of the year and take two years, Salci said.

Practically all of the major hotel development in the city has occurred during the past 10 years. A dozen hotels have been built in the last six years, and there are eight more proposals for high-rise hotels, Salci said.

"The development has been pretty rapid," said Kenneth Mech, the city's manager of current planning.

"Not many cities of this relatively modest size (80,000 people) have as many high-rise hotels."

The fanciest of them all so far is the Fallsview Casino Resort, which opened on Murray Hill in June. It's the city's second casino and a big moneymaker, providing funds to develop the city beyond even the mayor's expectations.

"I look at what this sleepy little town has become, and I say to myself, 'Who would have ever thought?' " said Salci, a former real estate agent who was born and raised in Niagara Falls, Ont.

The City Council gave discretion to any height limit, based on the quality of a building's architecture.

"The hotels overlooking Queen Victoria Park were built without enough diversity, making the skyline look like a wall of concrete," Darbyson said. "Our objective is to build a variable skyline and change that slablike appearance."

The slablike wall was creating what Darbyson calls a "microclimate effect."

"The sunshine wasn't getting through, and the mist from the falls had nowhere to go," he said.

Mist from the Horseshoe Falls currently drops like a gentle rainshower on people milling about Table Rock.

Although there is no limit on the height of new buildings, developers must give 5 percent of the cost of each floor over 30 stories to the city for community development projects, Salci said.

For example, the city will receive nearly $1 million from the 58-story Hilton Hotel, paying for the $100,000 urban study on new development 10 times over.

Not everyone pleased

Not all city residents are impressed. Slablike or slender, the skyline has destroyed the beauty of the city and diminished the grandeur of the falls, some longtime residents say.

"That was all green space," said Patricia Mangoff, who grew up downtown. "The thing that's so sickening about that concrete wall is that it will always be there."

Mangoff, a member of a group called Preserve Our Parks, is the mayor's sister.

"My brother had nothing to do with the wall," she noted. Salci took office Dec. 1, unseating the 17-year administration of Wayne Thomson.

Still, the damage has been done, said Carol Robertson, a lifelong resident.

"It's absolutely disgusting," she said. "Moreover, many of us don't think they should build any more hotels. Who's going to pick up the tab when there are too many and they start to fold?"

There are currently more than 16,000 hotel and motel rooms in the city, more than four times the number of rooms in Niagara Falls, N.Y. With the current influx of 16 million tourists a year anticipated to swell to 22 million over the next 10 years, hoteliers say there's a definite need for more rooms.

Hilton Hotel owner Vincent DiCosimo sees nothing but a glowing future. He pushed for more than 18 months for expansion, which will add 468 rooms to the existing 492 rooms in his hotel. The expanded property will generate $2.8 million in property taxes for the city.

Unlike its namesake on the American side of the Niagara River, money is not a problem on the Ontario side.

Niagara Falls, Ont., receives $2 million each year from the profits of Casino Niagara, the city's first casino, and the mayor said he is negotiating to get twice that from the new Fallsview Casino Resort. The city's share of the proceeds from Casino Niagara comes to a little under $1 million.

Niagara Falls, Ont.'s share from Fallsview's property tax bill will be $2.3 million, Salci said.

In August, the Preserve Our Parks group successfully blocked a $17 million cable car project that would have carried tourists high above the Niagara River along the gorge wall.

The Niagara Parks Commission n is trying to recover $5.8 million in losses for the 2002-03 fiscal year. Caused by the SARS outbreak, mad cow disease and lingering post-9/11 border concerns, it was the first time the commission has lost money since World War II.

Kirkland, the Toronto architect, said all the hotel development is due to the "great success" of the parks commission in creating a parkland environment and tourist attractions from Fort Erie to Niagara-on-the-Lake.

"The trouble with Niagara Falls, N.Y., is that it has no plan," said Kirkland. "You don't wait for some guy from L.A. or Toronto to come along and ask him what he wants to do. What developers want most of all is a strong plan of what a city wants. Niagara Falls, N.Y. could be a fabulous city, but it's lost."

Dr Funky
June 28th, 2006, 06:00 PM
------

Dr Funky
June 28th, 2006, 06:03 PM
-

milleniumcab
June 28th, 2006, 08:07 PM
These pictures are so sad..:(

Schadenfrau
June 28th, 2006, 08:28 PM
I don't think I've ever seen more abandoned houses and businesses anywhere other than Buffalo/Niagara Falls.

I had no idea until I was riding in a bus down one of the streets, around 8PM, and wondered why none of the houses had any lights on. After about three blocks and a completely shuttered Pizza Hut, I figured it out.

Dr Funky
June 28th, 2006, 10:52 PM
I don't think I've ever seen more abandoned houses and businesses anywhere other than Buffalo/Niagara Falls.

I had no idea until I was riding in a bus down one of the streets, around 8PM, and wondered why none of the houses had any lights on. After about three blocks and a completely shuttered Pizza Hut, I figured it out.

You get used to it....

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/AGhost_/mexico2edited.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/AGhost_/AlQuedaedited.jpg

Schadenfrau
June 28th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Yeah, I'm familiar with abandoned homes and businesses.

I understand that you're concerned with the goings-on in your hometown, but would you like to discuss something in particular? You're clearly dealing with a group that doesn't think the area is filled with cornfields and whatnot.

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 01:28 AM
----------

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 01:28 AM
=extra post-

ablarc
June 29th, 2006, 06:44 AM
"We want to give the skyline room to breathe," said Douglas Darbyson, the city's director of planning. "The buildings will be taller so people in the second tier can see over the existing tier."

In addition to the aesthetic factor, the city's new urban design has an "over-the-shoulder" effect.

The City Council approved the new concept after commissioning a Toronto consulting firm, the IBI Group, to do an urban design study.

"A greater variety of building heights can contribute to a more varied appearance, especially from the American side," the report stated in its overview. "It will create visual depth and reduce the impression [of] creating a wall condition along the escarpment."

No limit will be set on height, but the width of the hotels at the base must not exceed 131 feet -- some existing buildings are considerably more than that -- and the structures must rise in ever narrowing gradations.

Tall, narrow buildings.

"Right now, we have a wall effect," Mayor Ted Salci said. "This is a whole new concept that avoids any future extension of that wall. All new buildings will be tall and narrow."
They need to read this to every member of the city council in Hoboken.

After that: the New York City Council.




Then read it to every NIMBY everywhere.

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 10:26 AM
-----------

MrSpice
June 29th, 2006, 11:38 AM
This is the best-looking Stop sign I have ever seen.

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 12:29 PM
This is the best-looking Stop sign I have ever seen.

LOL, WTF?

MrSpice
June 29th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Very correct:



http://www.urbandecay.ca/Files/Content/NiagaraFallsNY/Niagara%20Falls/Decay/nf2.JPG

This car looks great. Is it for sale? If it only had all 4 wheels, it would be a screaming buy.

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 02:58 PM
This car looks great. Is it for sale? If it only had all 4 wheels, it would be a screaming buy.


HAHAHAHA

Cars come pretty cheap up here, all you need is a Slim Jim :D

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 03:14 PM
-

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 03:15 PM
---

MrSpice
June 29th, 2006, 03:18 PM
http://www.urbandecay.ca/Files/Content/NiagaraFallsNY/Niagara%20Falls/Decay/nf17.JPG



This house reminds me of remote areas of Russia (the country I left many years ago). It really does look like a house you can find 20 miles away from Moscow.

antinimby
June 29th, 2006, 03:27 PM
Are you guys experiencing a population drop?
Because we are experiencing a New yorker increase here.....Not really. We've grown by about 135,000 since the 2000 census. Those New Yorkers that have moved Upstate were most likely priced out here. They are replaced by wealthier outsiders and foreign immigrants. I'd bet you get to hear the true New York accent up there more than I'm hearing here.

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 04:37 PM
-------------

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 04:39 PM
---

Dr Funky
June 29th, 2006, 10:57 PM
----

pianoman11686
June 29th, 2006, 11:27 PM
Jesus. Place is fallin apart, literally.

antinimby
June 30th, 2006, 12:07 AM
OK, Dr Funky, we've seen enough of the abandoned homes. Now show us the better side of Niagara Falls.

MrSpice
June 30th, 2006, 09:45 AM
I must say I could not have imagine so much crap in Niagara Falls, to be honest. For a small city, it has way too many abandoned homes and dirt. So, I think it's been educational. I guess if you show these kinds of pictures to a typical resident of Western Europe or Canada, they would have more reason to believe that the US is the land of utmost inequality...

ryan
June 30th, 2006, 10:30 AM
Niagara Falls is a very depressing place, but I don't know that it's such a bad thing that people don't live in certain areas anymore. It grew to prominence as the earliest electrified industrial center, so it has old, old waste and many areas are rediculously contaminated. They even have famous waste - the remains of the Manhattan Project and Dan Rather's Antrax desk...

kz1000ps
June 30th, 2006, 12:13 PM
^ Not to mention whatever is still in the ground at Love Canal... that site singlehandedly created the Superfund program.

Dr Funky
June 30th, 2006, 01:11 PM
--------------
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y183/DoctorFunky/SCLA.jpg

antinimby
June 30th, 2006, 04:17 PM
C'mon, I know you can do better than that.
Where are the main thoroughfares, shopping districts, outdoor cafes, hip restaurants, schools, churches, train stations? You know, stuff like that.
Heck, I'll settle for a decent looking mall, you guys got to have one of those, don't you?

Schadenfrau
June 30th, 2006, 07:28 PM
If you're going to steal photos from UrbanDecay.ca, you should at least credit them, Dr.Funky.

Dr Funky
June 30th, 2006, 07:30 PM
[------------

kz1000ps
June 30th, 2006, 07:50 PM
Heck, I'll settle for a decent looking mall, you guys got to have one of those, don't you?


Decent looking, I dunno. But here's their mall - lots of people shopping there apparently.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3883/picture13ef.png

And another glamour shot. Those parking lots (yeah, they're parking lots)used to be ringed by apartments.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2253/picture23gp.png

Dr Funky
June 30th, 2006, 08:36 PM
--------

pianoman11686
June 30th, 2006, 11:02 PM
I guess if you show these kinds of pictures to a typical resident of Western Europe or Canada, they would have more reason to believe that the US is the land of utmost inequality...

We have inequality, yes...but utmost? Hardly. Visit any South American, African, South Asian, or Eastern European country. The gap is infinitely wider there. Don't forget, the U.S. has a huge middle class; countries in those areas don't. There are very few wealthy people at the top (usually tied to corruption within the gov't) and loads of dirt-poor at the bottom.

The U.S. may have some inexcusable contradictions, like the abandoned areas we see in these pictures, or the entire city of Camden, somehow existing in the wealthiest state in the wealthiest nation in the world. But we don't have shanty towns, and we don't have the endless slums that are ubiquitous in cities like Sao Paulo or Nairobi.

And...the places you mentioned (Western Europe and Canada) have their own share of horrible public housing projects and abandoned towns.

Dr Funky
July 1st, 2006, 12:48 AM
------------

Dr Funky
July 1st, 2006, 01:01 AM
------------

antinimby
July 1st, 2006, 01:25 AM
A can of worms -> Dr Funky opens...

Dr Funky
July 1st, 2006, 02:29 AM
A can of worms -> Dr Funky opens...

Ask, and ye shall recieve:

http://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/delmontedeal.html

DEL MONTE DEAL SLASHES CITY SHARE OF CASINO CASH, BETRAYS RESIDENTS

ANALYSIS By Mike Hudson
Caving in to pressure brought to bear by state Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, Rep. Francine Del Monte last week signed off on a deal that will see nearly one-third of the local share of casino cash due the city turned back over to a state agency, USA Niagara Development.
For nearly two years, Del Monte vowed that she would never accept such a deal, her resistance causing Albany to withhold all of the money. Her flip-flop last week has caused many to wonder why, if she's the Democratic Party powerhouse she says she is, Del Monte didn't just hold out until January, when Democrat Eliot Spitzer will likely be sworn in as governor and she could have gotten a better deal.
Highly placed legislative sources in Albany told the Reporter that the city's casino cash was used as a chip, and not a very big one, in the high-stakes poker game that led to the passage of the state budget.
"This is politics at its worst," said Gary Parenti, who is challenging Del Monte in September's Democratic Party Primary for the 138th District seat. "Instead of fighting for the best deal she could for the people of Niagara Falls, she bowed to political pressure and sold our city down the river."
Over the past two years, the state has collected $95,708,000 in slot-machine revenue from the Seneca Niagara Casino here. Of that amount, the city was supposed to receive one quarter, or $23,927,000.
Instead, the city will receive just $10.5 million. And even that comes with a lot of strings attached, split roughly into thirds and earmarked for debt service of infrastructure, economic development, and programs and services.
State Sen. George Maziarz said he reluctantly agreed to the deal once it became apparent that Del Monte was throwing in the towel.
"It's disgraceful," he said. "If she was going to settle for this anyway, Niagara Falls could've had the money two years ago."
Other beneficiaries of the casino cash include the Niagara County Industrial Development Agency, the Niagara Tourism and Convention Corp., the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority, Niagara Falls Memorial Hospital and the Niagara Falls City School District.
But the amounts doled out to those institutions are dwarfed by the amount of aid the state basically decided to award itself.
In all, USA Niagara -- the state's development arm here -- will receive $7.25 million, or 30 percent of the "local" total.
Some of this money is earmarked for such poorly planned projects as the nebulous Niagara Experience Center -- which is currently no more than a vague proposal -- and the operation and maintenance of the awkwardly named Conference Center Niagara Falls, a hastily built white elephant on Third Street that has yet to attract a major event since opening two years ago.
But much of USA Niagara's cut will take the form of a slush fund, allegedly to be used for things like promoting "private investment, job creation and expansion of the tax base within the city." Where have we heard all that before?
The state's record of encouraging private investment, creating jobs and expanding the tax base in Niagara Falls has been dismal, to say the least. And, for the past six years, the representative we elected to look after our interests in Albany, Francine Del Monte, has done little to stem the city's malaise.
In fact, many people here believe Maziarz is our elected representative, despite the fact that his district lies completely outside the city.
Del Monte's problematic relationship with Mayor Vince Anello -- who is at the center of an ongoing federal corruption probe -- further eroded her bargaining position, Albany sources confirmed. Earlier this year, Del Monte joined Anello in a poorly attended public-protest demonstration that served only to harden the state's position.
"Let's face it, if you want someone to send millions of dollars, the last thing you probably want to be doing is to appear on television standing next to a guy who's being investigated by the FBI," one source chuckled.
Like Del Monte, Anello also swore he would never sign off on a deal that didn't provide the city with 100 percent of the local share. And like Del Monte, he did just that last week.
"Maybe she was afraid she wouldn't be around when Eliot Spitzer gets in office," said Dan Bazzani, who will face the winner of the Del Monte-Parenti primary on the Republican line in November. "With her primary coming up, it looks like she felt she had to come up with something, even if it is a bad deal for the city."
Perhaps the first fruits of Del Monte's myriad betrayals of Niagara Falls and its citizens appeared last week, in the form of an expensive, full-page advertisement taken out in the Niagara Gazette.
The ad was paid for by a shadowy New York City-based political action committee called New Yorkers for Fiscal Fairness. The group serves as a front for the National Education Association -- a teachers union whose Albany-based New York chapter lavishes money on Democratic legislators and has especially close ties to Speaker Silver -- and other public employee unions.
"She's totally controlled by Sheldon Silver and the downstate interests," Parenti said while taking a break from the door-to-door campaign he's been waging in recent months. "What we're left with is another raw deal."
With Del Monte's assistance, Silver has successfully stymied efforts to open new charter schools throughout the state, despite public-opinion polls showing that a majority of New Yorkers are in favor of them.
And powerful NEA lobbyists, pockets stuffed with taxpayer dollars, are only too happy -- in true Albany fashion -- to return the favor.
In the corridors of power at the state capital, it is not at all unusual for elected representatives to trade off the interests of their own constituents for promised support during the next election cycle.
One recent example is the state's draconian anti-smoking law, passed during the night and with no public debate by Del Monte and other politicians on both sides of the aisle in order to appease a powerful restaurant lobby funded by national chain eateries such as Applebee's and Chi-Chi's.
Since the law's passage, dozens of small neighborhood taverns and mom-and-pop restaurants have closed in Del Monte's district, while many others have had to cut back drastically on staff, sending the very people the law was supposed to protect to the unemployment line.
"Take a look at all this," Parenti said. "The state takes 100 percent of the revenue from the state park, they take our hydropower to benefit the rest of the state and other parts of the country, and now they're taking the bulk of the money generated at the casino. We have all the tools here to be successful, but until we get some representation in Albany, we're going to continue being left holding the bag."
Bazzani said Del Monte's capitulation is just the latest in a long series of poor decisions made since she was elected six years ago.
"She gave in to political pressure and it's too bad for the city of Niagara Falls," he said. "In the six years she's been an Assembly person, I don't see any difference here." Del Monte herself has refused to speak to the Reporter since 2001, when her close fiduciary relationship with the soon-to-be-indicted leadership of Laborers Local 91 was revealed on these pages.

lofter1
July 1st, 2006, 08:07 AM
... the problem is that New York State politicians like our good friend Pataki are still doing what they have been doing for years. They are whoring us out to make money for places like New York City.

No where in the article ^^ you submitted is there any mention of Buffalo $$ going to NYC.

Any back-up for your theory?

Dr Funky
July 1st, 2006, 11:50 AM
No where in the article ^^ you submitted is there any mention of Buffalo $$ going to NYC.

Any back-up for your theory?

Niagara Falls money, not Buffalo money

Jake
July 1st, 2006, 04:24 PM
Does anybody know the exact tax numbers w/ regards to collection and distribution? I'd think that NYC pays the most and gets the least. I very much doubt that Niagara Falls residents are paying for NYC schoolbuses.

kz1000ps
July 1st, 2006, 06:01 PM
Actually that's where Lasalle High School used to be

Which picture? I'm almost positive that mall didn't replace a high school, so I'll assume you're talking about the second one, in which case, no there was no high school there either. What I posted is over by 95th St, next to the Love Canal site.

Dr Funky
July 1st, 2006, 10:18 PM
Which picture? I'm almost positive that mall didn't replace a high school, so I'll assume you're talking about the second one, in which case, no there was no high school there either. What I posted is over by 95th St, next to the Love Canal site.

There are 2 malls, there is one called the Prime outlets near where the Lasalle High school used to be, and the other is the Summit that is on Williams road.

I got the pictures confused...


Does anybody know the exact tax numbers w/ regards to collection and distribution? I'd think that NYC pays the most and gets the least. I very much doubt that Niagara Falls residents are paying for NYC schoolbuses.

Do you remember those commercials for that new arena they wanted to build in New York for the Olympics? Well our taxes were going to pay for those and we ran commercials against it.

Then I was in Albany one weekend and I was stunned at what I saw. You guys had commercials running FOR the arena, making it look like we were the ones holding you back from obtaining it.

Why the hell would we pay taxes for an arena that we would never use?

ZippyTheChimp
July 1st, 2006, 10:40 PM
To support your contention, you would have to show that NYC draws more in NYS budget allocations than it contributes to NYS revenue.

In other words, would NYS and Niagara Falls be better off without the "drain" of NYC on its budget.

Got any data?

Dr Funky
July 2nd, 2006, 12:51 AM
To support your contention, you would have to show that NYC draws more in NYS budget allocations than it contributes to NYS revenue.

In other words, would NYS and Niagara Falls be better off without the "drain" of NYC on its budget.

Got any data?

Here's the closet thing I could find, and I think I screwed up, what I meant was property tax. However ever since the casino has opened up, we still have not recieved any of the revenues.

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/03/17/story1.html

Taxing situation: Upstate rates highest in U.S.

Nowhere in America are the property-tax rates higher than in upstate New York. And almost nowhere across upstate are those rates higher than in the Buffalo-Niagara Falls area. That's according to a new Business First analysis of recently released U.S. Census Bureau data. It shows that Syracuse has America's steepest property-tax rate, with Buffalo-Niagara Falls running a close No. 2.

The seven metropolitan areas that have the nation's highest tax rates can all be found upstate.
"That points out the fundamental problem, which is that government in New York spends too much. That's true at both the state and local levels," says Robert Ward, research director for the Public Policy Institute, an arm of the Business Council of New York State.

Business First compared median home values and median property-tax payments in all 276 U.S. metropolitan areas. (Median is the midpoint, with half of all values or payments being higher, and half being lower.) Each area's results are expressed as a ratio of taxes per $1,000 of home value.
The Buffalo-Niagara Falls metro, which includes Erie and Niagara counties, had a median home value of $89,100 in 2000, the latest year for which figures are available. The area's median property-tax payment was $2,525, covering all county, school, city, town and village tax bills.

That yields a local rate of $28.34 in property taxes for every $1,000 of home value. Only Syracuse is higher, with a ratio of $28.82 per $1,000.
Rounding out the nation's top seven are Rochester, Jamestown, Elmira, Utica-Rome and Binghamton, all with tax rates that are more than twice the U.S. average of $11.15 per $1,000 of home value.

Rockford, Ill., has the highest property-tax rate outside of New York. Its ratio of $23.58 per thousand ranks eighth nationally

Dr Funky
July 9th, 2006, 01:14 AM
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lofter1
July 9th, 2006, 01:44 AM
Nice to see they're still mowing the lawn ;)

Dr Funky
July 10th, 2006, 12:47 PM
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MidtownGuy
July 10th, 2006, 03:37 PM
WOW, these pictures are so depressing. I remember taking a family road trip to Niagara Falls when I was a kid, and we were all dismayed by the difference between the American side and the Canadian side. Actually, we were ashamed.
Now that I'm older, I understand that America has money to build bombs and military bases around the world, but little else. It also sucks to know that our money helps build and maintain shiny new settlements in the West Bank, but millions of our own people live in slums like you see above.
Totally twisted.

ryan
July 10th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Eh, I really don't think the emptiness of Niagara Falls really says that much about poverty in the U.S. Sure these images are depressing, but Niagara Falls isn't even the poorest part of the state.

To paraphrase someone I don't remember: Niagara Falls, Canada is the front door to Canada, so they keep it nice. Niagara Falls, NY is the end of America, something we don't like to think about, so we neglect it.

MidtownGuy
July 10th, 2006, 04:38 PM
I really don't think the emptiness of Niagara Falls really says that much about poverty in the U.S.

I think it speaks volumes.
Don't get caught up on just Niagara Falls, those images are only a drop in the bucket, obviously.

but Niagara Falls isn't even the poorest part of the state.
Do you really think I'm just talking about Niagara Falls? I couldn't give a rat's ass about one stinkin' town.
My statement was an observation that BILLIONS of dollars are found when we want to stage an invasion, but supposedly we don't have the money for housing, education, or beautification. No need for heavy analysis here, it's a simple case of priorities.
Don't even get me started on tax cuts for the ultra-rich, while the people who live in places like the above are struggling to make ends meet.

I'm not a communist, I just think that America has very screwed up priorities. That's all.

ryan
July 10th, 2006, 05:03 PM
Well, sure I agree with you that our country's priorities are clearly misplaced (http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm):

http://www.warresisters.org/images/pieFY07.jpg


I just don't agree that Niagara Falls demonstrates any significant lesson about poverty in America. Its urban decay is more of a lesson about demographic shifts and suburban sprawl (when cities sprawl in depopulating areas, they leave decaying, abandoned centers).


Do you really think I'm just talking about Niagara Falls? I couldn't give a rat's ass about one stinkin' town.

Well, yes, I did think you were talking about Niagara Falls, given the title of the thread.

MidtownGuy
July 10th, 2006, 05:48 PM
Do you really think I'm just talking about Niagara Falls?

Well, yes, I did think you were talking about Niagara Falls, given the title of the thread.
"just talking" , the operative word being "just", as in only.
You left that part out for the sake of your quip. Yes, I was talking about Niagara Falls(as per the thread title, smart ass), but I was going after a larger picture. Like your big graph.

I'm well aware of the patterns of urban decay in this country, I don't need a lesson.

Dr Funky
July 12th, 2006, 12:41 AM
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Dr Funky
July 12th, 2006, 12:55 AM
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lofter1
July 12th, 2006, 08:55 AM
http://www.urbandecay.ca/Files/Content/NiagaraFallsNY/Niagara%20Falls/Decay/nf32.JPG



Inspiration??

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1156574/photo_11_hires.jpg (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/10005292-monster_house/gallery.php?page=10&size=hires&nopop=1)

ryan
July 12th, 2006, 09:10 AM
What is the poorest part?

I've read Allehany and Cattaraugus counties.

ZippyTheChimp
July 12th, 2006, 09:49 AM
Here's the closet thing I could find, and I think I screwed up, what I meant was property tax.
Property tax rates are not a good indicator to prove that New York City is a draw on New York State funds, which adversely affects Niagara.

ryan
July 12th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Property tax rates are not a good indicator...

Especially since they are levied by local governments - not the state.

Dr Funky
July 12th, 2006, 01:44 PM
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Dr Funky
July 12th, 2006, 01:46 PM
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Dr Funky
September 21st, 2006, 11:45 AM
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http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/AGhost_/shooting.jpg

ryeler
September 23rd, 2006, 08:43 PM
Eh, I really don't think the emptiness of Niagara Falls really says that much about poverty in the U.S. Sure these images are depressing, but Niagara Falls isn't even the poorest part of the state.

To paraphrase someone I don't remember: Niagara Falls, Canada is the front door to Canada, so they keep it nice. Niagara Falls, NY is the end of America, something we don't like to think about, so we neglect it.


We don't make Niagara Falls look nice so it's pleasing for Americans to look at, and it's deffinetly not the front door to Canada. We take pride in our cites, (now I'm sure somebody will start listing bad things aout Canada.) Niagra Falls U.S.A. isn't as nice do to NY State politicians, not it's geological postion, and deffinetly not its economical relation to Canada

ablarc
September 23rd, 2006, 10:00 PM
Canada's just generally more orderly.

Dr Funky
January 24th, 2007, 06:33 PM
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antinimby
January 24th, 2007, 10:37 PM
Dr Funky, why don't you tell us what is going on in NF?

Anything new? What's being planned?

NoyokA
January 26th, 2007, 08:47 PM
Dr Funky, why don't you tell us what is going on in NF?

Anything new? What's being planned?

Maybe Dr. F can confirm this, but I'm going to guess no is the answer to your first question, and probably not the answer to the second.

antinimby
January 27th, 2007, 12:42 AM
No all the way around?

How sad. :(

But then again, this place would be a paradise for NYC NIMBYs. :D

MidtownGuy
February 22nd, 2007, 12:53 PM
I went looking for photos of the skyline on the Canadian side. I found one, along with other nice photos of the area at
http://www.city.niagarafalls.on.ca/about_niagara_falls/photo_gallery/index.asp#1

the official website I guess. Lots of beautiful photos there, these among them:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/398921654_1e6e2a6ddb_o.png

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/398921657_04feeccfbf_o.png

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/398921660_985c473b70_o.png

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/158/398921665_272b173fbc_o.png

kz1000ps
February 23rd, 2007, 08:07 PM
Very lovely little city, although, like Atlantic City, if you walk more than say 5 blocks in from the riverfront, conditions deteriorate considerably. But it's incredible how their skyline (and fotunes) has exploded in the past 5-10 years. Too bad the American side is still waiting for the 1960s to happen..

NoyokA
February 23rd, 2007, 10:21 PM
Very lovely little city, although, like Atlantic City, if you walk more than say 5 blocks in from the riverfront, conditions deteriorate considerably. But it's incredible how their skyline (and fotunes) has exploded in the past 5-10 years. Too bad the American side is still waiting for the 1960s to happen..

Really? From what I saw it looked pretty nice away from the central core. Also from what I've heard people from the Buffalo-Niagara Region call that part of Canada the Hampton's of Canada.

kz1000ps
February 24th, 2007, 12:05 AM
Perhaps I didn't get out from the core enough. My memories of the place (which are about 3 years old) were of a lot of parking lots and houses that looked to be in the same condition as those across the river in NF/Buf, and by that I mean they looked decent at best. Then again, about 85% of the time I spent on the Canadian side I was nowhere near being sober, so maybe I'm not remembering so well :o

Dr Funky
March 16th, 2007, 12:07 AM
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