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Kris
September 11th, 2003, 02:33 PM
P.A. to revamp PATH train fleet

Officials set aside $809M for cars, security

Thursday, September 11, 2003

BY RON MARSICO
Star-Ledger Staff

The entire fleet of aging PATH rail cars will be replaced or rebuilt under an $809 million expenditure authorized yesterday by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

Nearly three-quarters of the trains are more than 30 years old, some of the oldest rail cars in the nation.

Port Authority commissioners approved the spending over the next seven years to replace the 246 oldest cars, overhaul the 94 cars that were bought in 1986 and replace the railroad's signal system.

"Providing new PATH cars will greatly improve the commute for tens of thousands of people who live and work in this region," said Port Authority Chairman Anthony Coscia. "It is a critical component of our $8.7 billion capital plan that will allow the Port Authority to fulfill its regional mandate to strengthen the transportation system in New York and New Jersey."

PATH began collecting its current $1.50 fare -- up from $1 -- in March 2001 to help pay for the new trains and signals, but the project was delayed after declining revenues following the economic downturn and 9/11. The initiative, first planned in the mid-1990s, is scheduled to be completed by September 2010, according to Michael DePallo, the PATH's director/general manager.

The signal system, which also was supposed to be replaced sooner, dates to the late 1960s but some components are 90 years old. Service on the old Hudson & Manhattan Railroad was opened by President Teddy Roosevelt in 1908 and the Port Authority acquired the bankrupt 14-mile line in 1962, renaming it PATH.

Under the current timetable, the first new cars will be in service by the end of 2006 and will have a design life of 30 years.

"Sixty percent of the fleet is essentially the oldest in the nation," said DePallo, explaining the average PATH car is 31 years old. He said the Staten Island Railroad has the nation's oldest fleet, with an average age of 32 years.

PATH ridership is expected to reach 54 million passengers this year, significantly down from the 74 million riders in 2000. Ridership has suffered from the loss of the World Trade Center station, where some 67,000 PATH passengers traveled on weekdays. But that station is set to reopen in November, while the Exchange Place station -- also closed after 9/11 -- reopened in June.

With security a paramount issue, DePallo said the revamped PATH will include detection systems for chemical and biological agents, as well as a video recording system on trains and live camera feeds. The new trains will meet federal rules for access by individuals with disabilities.

The Port Authority also approved spending $47 million to develop an environmental impact analysis and preliminary engineering for replacement of the deteriorating Goethals Bridge between New Jersey and Staten Island.

The ultimate cost of a new bridge will exceed $900 million, according to Anthony Cracchiolo, the agency's director of priority capital programs. Officials have considered renovating the span but Cracchiolo said he and his staff now believe "it might make more sense to completely replace it."

Similar environmental impact studies, costing some $25 million, were done for the project in 1997 but the U.S. Coast Guard did not issue a bridge permit, according to agency officials. That work is now outdated and must be redone, according to Steve Coleman, a Port Authority spokesman.

Ron Marsico covers the Port Authority. He can be reached at rmarsico@starledger.com or (973) 392-7860.

Copyright 2003 NJ.com. All Rights Reserved.

NYatKNIGHT
September 11th, 2003, 03:13 PM
Finally, those vehicles are so outdated. Though it's relatively clean, it is not a smooth ride compared to most city subways.

Eugenius
September 11th, 2003, 03:32 PM
Nowhere does it say that the new cars will be faster... Oh, well.

I am very excited about a refurbished Goethals bridge. The old one isn't all that stellar-looking. Could we be in for something that is architecturally distinctive?

normaldude
September 11th, 2003, 05:17 PM
I'd rather they spend the money to extend the PATH trains to Newark Airport/Airtrain.

TLOZ Link5
September 12th, 2003, 12:34 AM
First things first. It would be quite embarassing to have a state-of-the-art rail link with cruddy trains from the early '70s.

JCDJ
September 12th, 2003, 11:32 AM
When I first heard about this, I only heard of the replacement of the railcars. My first reaction was that perhaps there were more essential things the Port Authority could use the money for, but now I see the railcars are just part of it, in addition to the redevolopment of the bridge (where is that thing anyway?), it's also the new signals, and the new safety measures. I still maintain that new cars don't really seem to be all that important, but I do look foreward to it :)

I hope they'll be as nice as the L train, or the HB Light Rail :D

NYatKNIGHT
September 12th, 2003, 12:39 PM
PATH also has a problem with with station capacity, particularly at Christopher Street and 9th Street. During rush hour they have to close Christopher St. in one direction because there are only 3 turnstiles and not enough room for the amount of people who use it. Very inconvemient.

TLOZ Link5
September 12th, 2003, 02:18 PM
From what I've heard, the PATH stations are also poorly ventilated and can be quite stifling in the summer.

TonyO
April 1st, 2005, 08:19 AM
NYTimes
April 1, 2005

Port Authority to Replace PATH Fleet for $499 Million

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/04/01/nyregion/path.span.jpg
The Port Authority hopes to put new PATH cars into service between 2008 and 2011. Some cars in the present fleet are 40 years old.

By PATRICK McGEEHAN

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey decided yesterday to spend $499 million to replace its fleet of PATH trains, some of which are 40 years old, with 340 cars built by a Japanese company, Kawasaki Rail Car.

The contract to design and build the cars, which was approved during a three-minute public meeting of the Port Authority's board of directors, will be the single biggest investment in the PATH system since it was created in the 1960's, said Anthony R. Coscia, chairman of the Port Authority.

It is part of an $809 million program to renovate the PATH system, which runs from downtown Newark to Lower Manhattan and Herald Square. The system carries about 200,000 riders each weekday.

The new fleet, which is expected to go into service between late 2008 and 2011, would sharply improve the PATH's reliability, Mr. Coscia said. Kawasaki has guaranteed that, on average, its cars will travel 160,000 miles between breakdowns, he said. They will also be more comfortable and easier to clean, he added.

Mr. Coscia would not say if Kawasaki's bid was the lowest of the three the board considered, but he said it offered the "best value" because the total cost of acquiring, operating and maintaining the trains would be lowest with the Kawasaki cars. He also declined to identify the other bidders.

Michael DePallo, the general manager of the PATH system, said the contract would provide a "tremendous economic boost" to the local economy because Kawasaki has promised to spend $128 million in the region on labor and parts. Kawasaki has an assembly plant in Yonkers, but makes the shells of its cars in Lincoln, Neb., a Port Authority spokesman said.

Hiroji Iwasaki, a senior vice president at Kawasaki Rail Car's American headquarters in Yonkers, attended the meeting, but declined to comment about the contract. The company is a unit of Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., which is based in Kobe, Japan.

Kawasaki's first big assignment to build subway cars in America came from the Port Authority two decades ago. In 1986, it built the 94 cars that make up the fourth generation of the current PATH fleet. The oldest PATH cars were built in 1965.

With an average age of 33 years, the fleet is the oldest of any heavy rail line in the country, Mr. DePallo said.

Kawasaki also built many of the newest New York City subway trains, including the R142A cars that run on the Lexington Avenue line and the R143 cars on the L line. Kawasaki also formed a partnership with Alstom Transportation, a French company, to produce cars that will be known as R160's under a $961.7 million contract the Metropolitan Transportation Authority awarded in 2002.

Mr. Coscia said the new PATH cars would be an updated version of the R142's the MTA bought. "Our price on a per-car basis is actually lower than they paid, but we're getting better cars," Mr. Coscia said with a grin.

He said the Port Authority has no plan to raise fares or tolls on the Hudson River bridges and tunnels to cover the cost of the trains. The money will come from $809 million the agency allocated in late 2003 for PATH improvements. He added that the agency had been hunting for ways to cut its annual expenses by $150 million, or about 10 percent, and has already identified potential savings of about $100 million.

NYatKNIGHT
April 1st, 2005, 10:50 AM
This can't happen soon enough. Those PATH cars wobble, buckle, jolt, and careen out of control like a runaway train when they get going fast.

STT757
April 2nd, 2005, 11:37 AM
This can't happen soon enough. Those PATH cars wobble, buckle, jolt, and careen out of control like a runaway train when they get going fast.

That's what makes them so fun

Next time I ride the PATH im going to load Ozzies "Crazy Train" into my Ipod Mini, blasting "Im going off the rails on a crazy train" somewhere along the 33rd street line.

The World Trade Center line is nice and smooth since the rebuilding of the tunnel between the World Trade Center and Exchange Place.

NYatKNIGHT
April 4th, 2005, 12:11 PM
You're right, in a way it is sort of like a thrill ride, like a rickety roller coaster - the fun is in the fear that the vehicle just may fly off the tracks. "Crazy Train" is a good theme song for plenty of subway rides as well.....

Ninjahedge
April 4th, 2005, 02:39 PM
You ride on it long enough you know where the curves are.

You have a switch over, and then two curves before Christopher. You then have one turn and a straitening between 9th and 14th, teh rest I am not so sure of.

Going back there are two curves coming into hoboken. One they have lights for and is relatively smooth. The second, if you are in the back car, can throw you off. Just be ready for it if you feel the train go faster and you only counted one curve after the hudson tunnel....


I think they need new cars primarily from the lack of security at the door switches. I will not talk anymore about that, but it is not comforting.

They should also see if there was any way to link to Newark Airport (as suggested, nevermind the air-train or whatever that link is...). It woudl also be handy to have the WTC site linked up to 33RD. I know you have the subway for that, but there would be fewer stops AND it would be cheaper to go from DT to MT... ;)

Hell, take it all the way up to CP!!!! Would be nice to get to the park from Hoboken w/o the 20 block walk.

JCMAN320
July 31st, 2006, 01:57 PM
http://www.panynj.com/CommutingTravel/path/images/new_cars1.jpg

New Cars are Part of $3.1 Billion Investment to Create a "New" PATH System

On October 27, 2005, the Port Authority unveiled the design for the new fleet of PATH rail cars that will replace the system's aging 340-car fleet beginning in 2008. The new cars are part of $3.1 billion in investments in PATH either completed or planned since 9/11.

Kawasaki Rail Car Inc. is designing the cars under a $499 million contract to build a new fleet. The new cars will feature:

* Three-door sets on each side to allow for faster entrances and exits
* On-board video
* Closed-circuit television recording capability
* Improved lighting, air conditioning and heating
* Prerecorded station announcements
* Better signs
* Capability for passengers to communicate with the crew

The new cars are part of an $809 million PATH modernization program that also includes car maintenance equipment, renovations to PATH's Harrison Car Maintenance Facility and preliminary work on a new signal system. It is the largest single investment in the rapid-transit system since the Port Authority acquired the Hudson and Manhattan Railroad in 1962.

The Port Authority expects to have the first of the new PATH cars in service in 2008. The entire fleet will be replaced by 2011.

http://www.panynj.com/CommutingTravel/path/images/new_cars2.jpg
Artist's rendering of PATH new railcar

Ninjahedge
July 31st, 2006, 02:17 PM
I think they really need to concentrate more on the stations than the cars.

Instead of cladding the Christopher and 9th street station hallways with an additional 4"-6" worth of cover, they should have spent the extra $$ to do it right and repair the existing walls. Now those stations are even harder to get in and out of at rush hour.


What is the point of having more doors if the platform is full when they unload?

JCMAN320
July 31st, 2006, 02:33 PM
Excellent point Ninja. :)

ablarc
July 31st, 2006, 07:32 PM
Kawasaki Rail Car Inc. is designing the cars under a $499 million contract to build a new fleet...The entire fleet will be replaced by 2011.
Would it be too much to ask for a little glamour in the style?

z22
July 31st, 2006, 08:09 PM
Very sad to see that they spend $499 million to get exact same look as their current cars. I guess they can cut cost by not having to design the new one. Plus they can reuse parts (if not the whole trains themselves) for the new fleet. You see, the chains hanging in front of the front door are exactly the same :)

Well, we shouldn't complain too much. As long as the A/C works in the summer, no black water dripping to the seats when itís raining, no super seat heater that burns you a$$ in the winter, and no loud noise from the wheels like they are about to come off any time soon, we should be happier than today.

ablarc
July 31st, 2006, 08:41 PM
Very sad to see that they spend $499 million to get exact same look as their current cars.
So why did they even bother with an artist's rendering? They could have just taken a photo of an existing car.

JCMAN320
July 31st, 2006, 08:50 PM
These cars will be different. I never said the renderings were good. They will be different and better than the current MTA cars.

TimmyG
July 31st, 2006, 10:08 PM
One of the reasons they want to update the cars is probably to cut down on maintenence time and breakdowns. It must be getting expensive to maintain a 30+ year old fleet.

z22
July 31st, 2006, 10:32 PM
So why did they even bother with an artist's rendering? They could have just taken a photo of an existing car.

You are right. At least fresh blue paint looks nicer :)

OmegaNYC
July 31st, 2006, 11:05 PM
You are right. At least fresh blue paint looks nicer :)

Hell, as long as it can get me from point A to B, then who cares how it looks?? :D

MikeKruger
August 3rd, 2006, 12:05 PM
I take the Path almost every weekend. This is what I'd like money to be spent on

Extend the Path deep(er) into Jersey. 24h service is great for us tunnel trash (for now...) who want to party in the city without driving back for half an hour at 3am from the Path station. At least make it run north past Hoboken, maybe up to Weehawken or Fort Lee.

A/C the bloody stations! Especially the small ones like 9th street. I know it's hard since it's not an enclosed area but at least could provide some air circulation.

Put trash cans in the stations. I haven't seen any in the small stops.

stache
August 3rd, 2006, 01:26 PM
You're stuck with light rail for Weehawken, and I agree about the trash cans.

Ninjahedge
August 3rd, 2006, 02:45 PM
I take the Path almost every weekend. This is what I'd like money to be spent on

Extend the Path deep(er) into Jersey.

YES! To Newark Airport!!!


24h service is great for us tunnel trash (for now...) who want to party in the city without driving back for half an hour at 3am from the Path station. At least make it run north past Hoboken, maybe up to Weehawken or Fort Lee.

I would like that too, making it easier to get around (say bring it up to 14th street with all the new developments, then another station at the ferry, and then further up to the light rail station at the tunnel/ferry...

But the difficult thing is that it would be all by the waterside, and a lot would be under existing constructions and infrastructure, not an easy combo.

The easiest would be to extend it past Newark Station to Newark Airport, and the benefit would be most easily quantified.


A/C the bloody stations! Especially the small ones like 9th street. I know it's hard since it's not an enclosed area but at least could provide some air circulation.

Agreed, they need breather stacks or vent tubes or something to try to get that air out of there! It is the hottest station I have been in (The back of Christopher is probably one of the worst!).

Putting all the fans blowing in one direction might help a little too, instead of just circulating hot air around and around.


Put trash cans in the stations. I haven't seen any in the small stops.

You aren't supposed to be eating or drinking ni the PATH train. If they put trash there (like they had in the past) people abuse it. Trust me, it is neater w/o the trash cans (not like people use them in the NYC Subways!!!)

MikeKruger
August 4th, 2006, 08:25 AM
Yeah, going to Newark airport would definitely be helpful. I think the PATH gets pretty close to it,into downtown Newark, and from there there's a train? service to the airport but I don't know if that runs all night.

JCMAN320
August 5th, 2006, 01:30 AM
Here is a PDF link to show the studying is being done for the 2 mile extension of the PATH to Newark Airport. It is on Page 7 of the PANYNJ Captial Improvments report.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/capital/stip04-06/sec5/PANYNJ.pdf

My father who has been working for PATH for 30 years now says that when he started at the age of 19 in 76', they were talking about extending it then. So this has been on the table for a long time. It only makes sense if you consider that both PATH and EWR are owned and operated by the PANYNJ to link them to together.

Also Mike you are right. The PATH ends at Penn Station, then you must transfer to a NJ Transit Train on either the North Jersey Coast or North East Corridor lines that will take you one stop further to EWR where you get on the Air Train to take you into the terminal. I'm pretty sure the service runs all night as well.

ablarc
August 5th, 2006, 09:08 AM
the studying is being done for the 2 mile extension of the PATH to Newark Airport. It is on Page 7 of the PANYNJ Captial Improvments report.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/capital/stip04-06/sec5/PANYNJ.pdf

My father who has been working for PATH for 30 years now says that when he started at the age of 19 in 76', they were talking about extending it then. So this has been on the table for a long time.
Cost is just $31 million, and they still haven't done it???

Must be the taxi lobby.

STT757
August 6th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Cost is just $31 million, and they still haven't done it???

Must be the taxi lobby.

The cost is $550 Million, the $31 Million is for the enviromental and Enginering study.

Whats holding up the PATH extension to Newark Airport is the NY commisioners of the Port Authority who fear the building of a Lower Manhattan-Newark Airport rail link would some how cause the Lower Manhattan-JFK rail link project to falter.

AT $550 Million the Lower Manhattan-Newark Airport rail link is a bargain and a great return on investment compared to the $6-8 Billion Lower Manhattan-JFK rail link.

Ninjahedge
August 7th, 2006, 09:07 AM
It would cut the transit time down about 20 minutes and make it a one-train trip to get to the airport.

It REALLY stinks to have to switch trains several times in a trip/commute, it sucks even more when you are carrying around luggage.


I wonder if they could have saved some $$ on the trains and only put in a few "travelers" cars for the eventual expansion (ones with luggage racks)...

JCMAN320
January 22nd, 2008, 11:17 AM
New and upgraded PATH cars coming

Monday, January 21, 2008
By AMY SARA CLARK
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

By the end of the year, some PATH commuters can plan to watch the morning news on their way to work, will have an easier time getting on and off the train, and will know when the next train is coming as soon as they hit the platform.

The changes will come with new train cars that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey has promised to begin adding by the end of the year.

A full-sized model of the new cars will be unveiled to the press tomorrow but here's a sneak preview.

Each car will include video screens, said Port Authority spokesman Marc La Vorgna.

La Vorgna assures riders that the video programming will be - perhaps mercifully - without sound. The content, which will include news, weather, sports programming and, of course, advertising, will be provided by NBC, which has promised the Port Authority $1.5 million over seven years for the privilege.

New screens on the platforms will provide the same programming, but will also inform riders when the next train is coming. Both onboard and platform screens will also alert commuters to delays and other problems.

The new cars will also include better lighting, air conditioning and heating, pre-recorded station announcements and the capacity for passengers to communicate with the crew, said La Vorgna.

La Vorgna could not yet say exactly when the new cars will be added, how many will be in the first batch, or to which lines.

The new cars are part of a planned $3.3 billion upgrade over 10 years that will also increase passenger capacity by 25 percent.

AMY SARA CLARK can be reached at aclark@jjournal.com

ramvid01
January 22nd, 2008, 03:13 PM
Good to see these upgrades being applied on the PATH. I wonder if by 2050 the MTA would implement half of these...nah.:(

Ninjahedge
January 22nd, 2008, 04:41 PM
The path trains, during rush hour, are crowded. Having a little vid screen in the car showing news and traffic is a waste of $$. they have already tried with LCD screens at 9th and Christopher. Within a month or two they were warping, bleeding and having other problems (maybe poor power filtration, humidity, overheating or strong dynamic magnetic fields).

I think it is good that tehy will try to do things like announce arrivals and departures, but spending the extra cash on fancy-dancy cars when the old ones (seem) to work fine is a waste.

I would rather have better ventilation in the stations, a cleaning up of the station at Pavonia, a better control system to allow better traffic flow (and higher volume). A bigger stair exit at Christopher, etc etc.

I really do not need anything else on a 12 minute (on average) ride. Especially not something that ha not fared well (LCD monitors) in the past.

NYatKNIGHT
January 23rd, 2008, 12:01 PM
To me the cars are the most important upgrade, but they need all those improvements. Perhaps the LCD screens in the cars are bottom of the list, but the cars are only barely adequate for the short rides, and inadequate for the ride out to Newark (and hopefully one day to the airport). It feels like it's going to go careening off the tracks at any second, and it roughly pitches back and forth so you need to hold on for dear life. The brakes are uncomfortably abrupt. Compared to the other rail transports out there, it looks and feels like the cheapest and most outdated. The increased passenger capacity is absolutely necessary, and will help pay for the new cars.

kevin
January 23rd, 2008, 12:18 PM
I would rather have better ventilation in the stations, a cleaning up of the station at Pavonia, a better control system to allow better traffic flow (and higher volume). A bigger stair exit at Christopher, etc etc.

I second better ventilation, and Pavonia is a mess, but there is little they can do at Christopher, as there is little room for expansion. The PATH is already running at peak capacity during rush hour, there's little they can do to put more trains on the line.

The new trains will be nice. I can tell the difference between the newer cars and the older ones in the fleet. For example, yesterday on my way into the city I was reading an assignment for my remedies class. I take the Path from Newark to JSQ, then switch to Christopher St. The ride was relatively smooth, I was able to make notes and underline passages in the book.
The ride home from class (I walk down to WTC and take it straight shot to Newark) was a different story. It's a mess. The struts on the train I was in last night were horrible. Is this something a simple upgrade could fix? possibly. But I think these trains have been around since the 70s, it's time for new stock.

West Hudson
January 23rd, 2008, 10:43 PM
What would increase capacity is if they made the WTC and 33rd St lines totally separate; and all they would need to do is add a parallel set of tracks under Columbus Drive to the point where the 33rd St line currently diverges from the WTC line. That way, they could run 33rd Street trains and WTC trains constantly since they would be on completely different sets of tracks, and delays caused by trains waiting at the intersection of the two lines would be eliminated. They would basically just have to set up Grove Street station as the Journal Square station is arranged.

The Grove St station would have to be expanded to have another platform for the 4-track configuration, and Columbus drive might have to be excavated (if tunneling proved too difficult), but it would be worth it (wouldn't it be nice to have nearly doubled capacity without having to tunnel under the Hudson?).

JCMAN320
January 23rd, 2008, 10:57 PM
Future PATH: Info, ads, more doors

Wednesday, January 23, 2008
By AMY SARA CLARK
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

HARRISON - PATH commuters can expect to see new cars that will have video screens, design improvements that make sitting and standing more comfortable, and video screens in stations that will eventually tell passengers what time each train will leave.

They can also expect to see new video screens on the platforms and upper levels of stations that will eventually let commuters know exactly when the next train is coming and on which track.

The PATH train cars of the near future were unveiled yesterday at a news conference at the company's maintenance facility in Harrison.

Port Authority of New York and New Jersey plans to beginadding the new cars by the end of the year, beginning with the Newark-World Trade Center line.

The goal is to add an average of 15 new cars a month, said Susan Bass Levin, the Port Authority's first deputy executive director.

The video programming, which will include news, weather, sports programming and ads, will be silent with captions along the bottom or other kinds of text. NBC has promised the Port Authority $1.5 million over seven years to provide the content.

Some commuters said they won't mind the televisions, even though they will include ads. "I think that's great. It kind of breaks the monotony of the trip, even though it's short," said C.J. Kim, a Jersey City attorney who lives in Manhattan.

Others were skeptical. "I pay for the trip, and then I have to pay for advertisements?" said Klaus Wiegner, a Jersey City accountant who lives in Manhattan.

Shelley Roberts, who works in public relations in Newark and lives in Brooklyn, agreed. "I'm bombarded all day long by stimuli, and I cherish this time," she said. "I find it very invasive and intrusive."

But riders polled were uniformly enthusiastic about the potential for platform video screens to let them know when the next train will leave.

"That's what I love about London," said Roberts. "At least (there) I have a choice as to what's going on, so if I need to make a choice, I can make it based on how soon it looks like a train might be coming."

But that ability is still awhile off because it is tied to an overhaul of PATH's antiquated signal system, said spokesman Marc La Vorgna.

A timetable has not been set, but it is a top priority, he said.

Other improvements include seats with better lumbar support, more vertical polls, allowing shorter riders to hang on more comfortably and ceilings a few inches higher for taller riders.

All of the new cars will have three doors per side.

In addition, cars will include technology that returns energy to the train when it brakes, better lighting, air conditioning and heating, pre-recorded station announcements, a better intercom system and the capacity for passengers to communicate with the crew.

AMY SARA CLARK can be reached at aclark@jjournal.com

JCMAN320
January 23rd, 2008, 11:05 PM
http://blog.nj.com/hobokennow_impact/2008/01/large_30e9792d1b134aa981c1a902fb3374f7.jpg
AP Photo/Mike Derer
A video screen displays an advertisement for 3Forty Grill in a new PATH train car during today's press conference.


http://blog.nj.com/hobokennow_impact/2008/01/large_f35f1f461ef644e2ba833e9125d1855b.jpg
AP Photo/Mike Derer


http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2008/01/large_apath.jpg
Noah Addis/The Star-Ledger
Mike DiPallo, PATH director and general manager, looks at the inside of a new PATH car during a press conference at the PATH maintenance facility in Harrison today.


http://blog.nj.com/ledgerupdates_impact/2008/01/large_bpath.jpg
Noah Addis/The Star-Ledger
A new PATH car, center, at today's press conference.

Ninjahedge
January 24th, 2008, 10:10 AM
They don't look any bigger.

And it looks like those LCD's would be more concerned with ad revenue than news/traffic/weather/scheduling......

kevin
January 24th, 2008, 11:56 AM
What would increase capacity is if they made the WTC and 33rd St lines totally separate; and all they would need to do is add a parallel set of tracks under Columbus Drive to the point where the 33rd St line currently diverges from the WTC line. That way, they could run 33rd Street trains and WTC trains constantly since they would be on completely different sets of tracks, and delays caused by trains waiting at the intersection of the two lines would be eliminated. They would basically just have to set up Grove Street station as the Journal Square station is arranged.

The capacity issues aren't simply time issues, they're power issues as well. If they built a second set of tracks, they'd have to build a second power station.

What I'd love to see is the trains go back to the post-9/11 setup, where there's a train that runs direct from Newark-33rd. It's ridiculous getting on a packed train in Newark, then having even more people squeeze in at Harrison, only to see half the train get off in JSQ. With a 33rd direct train from Newark, a lot of the "should I switch at JSQ?" confusion would be resolved.


They don't look any bigger.

And it looks like those LCD's would be more concerned with ad revenue than news/traffic/weather/scheduling......

How is that a bad thing? one of your complaints was that the lcd was a wasted expense, but if they display ads, they can pay for themselves.

Ninjahedge
January 24th, 2008, 02:02 PM
I HATE ads.


I hate the video ads they are putting on teh train stations, I hate all the ads all over times square that I walk through every day, I did not like the motion ads they tried on the wall in between stations (in the tube) although the idea was cool.

I want to have some part of my day not constantly bombarded with more ways to clean my teeth, lose weight, make money on the net, learn TV/VCR repair or any other generic advertisment blitz.

But wait, there's more.

They have not ONCE said that these thnigs would be used for ads. Why? Because I think there are other people that would not like this. They are saying that they will be for all these good things and neglect to tell you that you will also be seeing pictures of swimsuited individuals at Club Med as you slog to work in February.



Anyway, back to the others. The problem is, the PATH train is at capacity. The stations cannot load and unload any faster. Teh entire ontrol system and means of egress need to be improved. They need to build that second stair for Christopher (they narrowed the one they had for "improvement"). They need a second, or wider corridor for 9th. They need a better switching system (I looked at the control room, it looks like something from the Bionic Man era.)

They need optimization, or a grand overhaul and expansion to handle the extra volume.

I am all for it. I would pay extra if the train went all the way to Newark Airport or up to Times Square (40's). I don't think the latter is physically possible, but I would still love it!

But $$ spent on new cars when the cars they have are, in most cases, much nicer than the average NYC subway car? (The new cars on the subway are nice, but the generic voices are sappy. They are easier to understand than the mumbled speech of the old doormen, but still...).

I am all in favor of making a smoother ride, but the cars themselves are nowhere near what NYT had with the old red-cars and their need for replacement!!! ;)

kevin
January 24th, 2008, 04:33 PM
I HATE ads.
I hate the video ads they are putting on teh train stations, I hate all the ads all over times square that I walk through every day, I did not like the motion ads they tried on the wall in between stations (in the tube) although the idea was cool.

I want to have some part of my day not constantly bombarded with more ways to clean my teeth, lose weight, make money on the net, learn TV/VCR repair or any other generic advertisment blitz.

But wait, there's more.

They have not ONCE said that these thnigs would be used for ads. Why? Because I think there are other people that would not like this. They are saying that they will be for all these good things and neglect to tell you that you will also be seeing pictures of swimsuited individuals at Club Med as you slog to work in February.

Advertising is a way of life in the city, and a source of revenue that actually doesn't cost us anything in terms of money. I don't know anyone who actually enjoys looking at ads all the time, but I think unless you can come up with a substantially better argument, you'll lose that one every time. :)

Ninjahedge
January 24th, 2008, 05:52 PM
Advertising is a way of life in the city,

So are potholes, it does not mean I have to like it, or ask for it.


and a source of revenue that actually doesn't cost us anything in terms of money.

There is where you are wrong. It costs us in the programming us into certain belief sets and expectations. They do their research on this, and whether you know it or not, you are influenced by the Wrigley's animated billboard as you walk through the square. You feel like being cool at Target or you think about Americas Top Model on CW11.

THAT is what annoys me more than anything is the way they get in behind your conscious realization and influence what you think later in the day.

Diamonds are NOT forever, but you are a heel if you do not buy your woman one. Whether YOU believe this or not does not matter. Enough people get these ads to make it so that your life is influenced by it indirectly through them.


I don't know anyone who actually enjoys looking at ads all the time, but I think unless you can come up with a substantially better argument, you'll lose that one every time. :)

"lose that one", wth? People do not like it. If they DID like it, they would not object AND the PATH/NJT would have NO PROBLEM saying that the LCD screens were for advertisements.

Did you see them calling that to anyones attention? I didn't. If you are going to give a person a brand new car, you should tell them about the skunk in the trunk before they sign the dotted line.

kevin
January 25th, 2008, 12:11 PM
So are potholes, it does not mean I have to like it, or ask for it.

You can't compare a pothole to an advertisement.


There is where you are wrong. It costs us in the programming us into certain belief sets and expectations. They do their research on this, and whether you know it or not, you are influenced by the Wrigley's animated billboard as you walk through the square. You feel like being cool at Target or you think about Americas Top Model on CW11.

Of course they do their research. Everything in a capitalist society is carefully researched to make the most money. If you don't like it, you're in the wrong country - at least the wrong part of the country.


THAT is what annoys me more than anything is the way they get in behind your conscious realization and influence what you think later in the day.

Diamonds are NOT forever, but you are a heel if you do not buy your woman one. Whether YOU believe this or not does not matter. Enough people get these ads to make it so that your life is influenced by it indirectly through them.

Everything you've said here is correct. But advertising, as far as anybody is concerned, is still free speech. You can place restraints on it, to an extent, but you have to have a legitimate government interest to do so. So a company like DeBeers can sell one of the most common elements on the earth by making people think there's a shortage, that these rocks are precious. You don't have to buy one. You don't have to buy any brand. But unless you're willing to move to a commune, as I stated before, you will lose that argument.


"lose that one", wth? People do not like it. If they DID like it, they would not object AND the PATH/NJT would have NO PROBLEM saying that the LCD screens were for advertisements.

I'll tell you what - you go file a brief with the clerk of the court, stating this cause of action, while Joe will go file a brief stating a cause of action for damage caused by a pothole that wasn't filled in. Who do you think will win their case?


Did you see them calling that to anyones attention? I didn't. If you are going to give a person a brand new car, you should tell them about the skunk in the trunk before they sign the dotted line.

You are not legally obligated to do so. Your only legal obligation is to point out defects that a reasonable inspection would not uncover.

But the Port Authority isn't selling you a car. Actually, they're not selling anything more than a license to ride on their train, which runs on their tracks. Even if it is a government entity, it still has discretion (and, for the most part, a fiduciary duty) to run its business in the manner that is most profitable.

I hate advertisements, for the most part, but the only solution to your problem would be to instate an outright ban on all advertising, which would mean you'd have to pass a constitutional amendment declaring that advertising speech is not covered by the first amendment.

Therefore, we can argue the merits of advertising all you want on this board. But if you want to insist that there's any possible way to prevent such advertisements from gracing the walls of the PATH trains, you're arguing a point that you cannot win.

lofter1
January 25th, 2008, 12:25 PM
Bet you hardly any of the people who make these big decsions ride the trains on a regular basis.

And probably not at rush hour.

Ninjahedge
January 25th, 2008, 01:10 PM
You can't compare a pothole to an advertisement.

I can, and I did! ;)


Of course they do their research. Everything in a capitalist society is carefully researched to make the most money. If you don't like it, you're in the wrong country - at least the wrong part of the country.

Um, that sounds rather exclusionary. If the only thing they hear is happy-happy about the ads they are placing them and where, they will not change them.

So how is me simply moving away (to a different country) going to make it so that I get a bit more of the environment that I want?


Everything you've said here is correct. But advertising, as far as anybody is concerned, is still free speech.

Don't compare the two. You were saying yourself that I should not compare ads to potholes, and now you are comparing capitalist venture to civil rights.

Free speech may be guaranteed, but forcing me to see it by putting it everywhere I go is not.


You can place restraints on it, to an extent, but you have to have a legitimate government interest to do so. So a company like DeBeers can sell one of the most common elements on the earth by making people think there's a shortage, that these rocks are precious. You don't have to buy one. You don't have to buy any brand. But unless you're willing to move to a commune, as I stated before, you will lose that argument.

I hate lying. I hate organic compound ads that advertise crap. I hated the whole "germ" scare that we had a while back that prompted everything from Antibacterial soap to pitri dishes.

Teh AB pitri's did not sell too well.

Anyway, what I am expressing now is my inherent dislike of having ads placed everywhere, in ways that make them harder and harder to ignore.

Yes, you can ignore the ads in Times Square, but crossing the street with your eyes closed will get you run over. ;)


I'll tell you what - you go file a brief with the clerk of the court, stating this cause of action, while Joe will go file a brief stating a cause of action for damage caused by a pothole that wasn't filled in. Who do you think will win their case?

I keep by briefs in my pants. And posting on a NYC web/BBS about my dislike of money being spent to expose us to more ads while saying it is for our own information is completely acceptable.

My point is, and will be, that the PATH, after announcing it has no financial problems, AND that it will be increasing fares, is proposing all these improvements. One of which they say is to help us when all it does is earn them more money. You think all that $$ comes right back to the ridership?

My contension is that I would rather the money be spent on things that would benefit us all immediately, and DO require massive fundage. One is getting a second stair in at Christopher over the wails and cries of the NIMBY's worried that somehow a train access will ruin their property value. Another is to update the 1970 control room to something that could maybe keep track of and safely handle more trains at higher speeds.

Animated billboards with no real guarantee of long-term success is a waste of money to me (go into Christopher and 9th streets and look at the screens there. All are distorted or broken. Have they fixed that, or will this just be more money thrown at money in the hopes of making money?)


You are not legally obligated to do so. Your only legal obligation is to point out defects that a reasonable inspection would not uncover.

I am unsure of why yuo think that they should not be responsible to give us all theinformation on somethingthey are proposing and not sugar coat it so much to hide what we all know would not be accepted a readily.


But the Port Authority isn't selling you a car. Actually, they're not selling anything more than a license to ride on their train, which runs on their tracks.

Which I have to pay to ride. If you are saying that I am not paying them to provide a service, that it is more a civil project funded mostly by the state DoT, thenm I have even more of a right to express my discontent.

You make it sound like it is a priveledge to ride their train. When was I ever allowed to put my own train on there? And when could I walk across water? When either of those are possible then maybe I will reconsider my position about teh ads. Until then, I still do not like them and do notthink they should do this.


Even if it is a government entity, it still has discretion (and, for the most part, a fiduciary duty) to run its business in the manner that is most profitable.

You are really stretching it now.


I hate advertisements, for the most part, but the only solution to your problem would be to instate an outright ban on all advertising, which would mean you'd have to pass a constitutional amendment declaring that advertising speech is not covered by the first amendment.

Um, no. You already have regulations banning ads on things like scaffolding covers and the like. So is that a slight against free-speech? And you are extending my position of dislike over additional advertisement to encompas all of advertisement as a whole. I am not saying that either. I am saying, it is not here, and I would not like it if they decided to do it. Do I have the right to ban it?

No.

Do I have the right to complain and request it not being there?

What do you think?


Therefore, we can argue the merits of advertising all you want on this board. But if you want to insist that there's any possible way to prevent such advertisements from gracing the walls of the PATH trains, you're arguing a point that you cannot win.

What? Holy defeatist batman!! So if there is something I do not like, I cannot voice my discontent and should just sit quietly and bear with it? What world are you from?

stache
January 25th, 2008, 01:55 PM
Please take your debate to PM.

JCMAN320
March 30th, 2008, 07:05 PM
PATH trains' new look will be greener too

by Amy Sara Clark Sunday March 30, 2008, 3:36 PM

When commuters ride the new PATH cars later this year, they will probably notice the on-board TVs, more comfortable seats and brighter lights.

But will they notice the brakes?

Perhaps they should, because the new "regenerative" brakes will save 2 to 5 percent of the trains' total energy consumption, said Michael DePallo, PATH's director and general manager.

In the old PATH cars, many of which were built in the 1960s, the energy created during braking is dissipated as heat. But the new cars are able to recapture that energy and reuse it, fueling functions such as lights, air conditioning and heat, DePallo said.

Energy created during braking can also be transferred from one train to another through the third rail if they are near each other, DePallo said.

Eventually, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs the system, hopes to be able to store the captured energy in substation batteries, which could save 25 percent of the energy used by the trains, DePallo said.

The Hudson-Bergen Light Rail and New York City's newer subway cars already use the energy-efficient brakes, as do most cities with newer train cars, said DePallo. The technology is similar to that which is used in many hybrid cars.

The Port Authority is also installing compact fluorescent bulbs in its train stations, and using energy-saving LED lights on its new cars.

"We're looking to try to save energy any way we can," he said.

The new cars are part of a planned $3.3 billion upgrade over 10 years that will also increase passenger capacity by 25 percent.

The new cars will be added to the Newark-World Trade Center line first, with a goal of adding about 15 cars a month, said Susan Bass Levin, the Port Authority's first deputy executive director.

JCMAN320
June 10th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Port Authority officials hope to have PATH running by morning

by Ron Marsico/The Star-Ledger Tuesday June 10, 2008, 10:50 PM

Work crews toiled into the night in hopes of restoring PATH service in time for the morning rush.

A fire between the Christopher Street and 9th Street stations in Manhattan damaged power cables and forced the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to shut down the PATH between Journal Square and Hoboken and 33rd Street in Manhattan.

Thousands of commuters were forced to find new ways home during the evening rush.

Service operated as usual on the PATH's Newark and Hoboken lines to the World Trade Center, as well as between Journal Square and Hoboken. But stations at Christopher, 9th, 14th, 23rd and 33rd streets were shut down.

Approximately 24,000 riders use the affected line during weekday evening rush hours, said Marc La Vorgna, a Port Authority spokesman.

Most of those commuters seemed to take the service disruption in stride, despite the record heat and oppressive humidity.

"It's inconvenient, but it's OK, I guess,'' said Jill Shah, 23, a student in Westchester County.

One Port Authority volunteer expressed amazement that nobody yelled at him after he had spent an hour-and-a-half telling riders their optons. Those options included taking either a subway downtown to the PATH's World Trade Center station, an NJ Transit train from nearby Penn Station or a bus to New Jersey.

NJ Transit was honoring PATH tickets during the service disruption, and its trains were very crowded by yesterday afternoon, La Vorgna said.

The Port Authority will post information about morning PATH service on its webpage: www.panynj.com

West Hudson
July 17th, 2008, 10:37 PM
I was passing through Harrison on the PATH this afternoon and happened to see what I think are the first full-length new trains. They look strikingly different than the current trains. I can't think of any other way to describe them but "awesome" (...and "overdue"). They look solid (and slightly more "aggressive" in appearance). One train was sitting in the storage yard and it looked like the PA was testing the other (it was moving along slowly eastbound on a storage track). I can't wait to see these things in action.

The exteriors of the cars were made up of alot of chrome still, but they also had alot of (very) dark blue features.

My guess is that they will first go into use on the Newark-WTC line, and then the other routes as they are delivered.

JCMAN320
July 20th, 2008, 02:54 AM
You are correct in your assumption of them going on teh NWK-WTC line first.

Also these cars are MORE advanced versions of the ones on the MTA 4 Line and are more advanced than any of cars on the MTA lines.

STT757
July 21st, 2008, 01:23 PM
The Port Authority is also expanding the Harrison and Grove Street Stations to handle longer 10 car trains along the NWK-WTC line, the World Trade Center, Journal Square, Newark Penn and Exchange I believe can already accomodate the longer trains. I believe the Exchange Place work to accomodate 10 car trains was done when the station was closed from the attacks.

New cars, longer trains, and the improved signaling system announced in October which will increase the frequency of trains each hour will add significant additional capacity to the system.

http://www.panynj.gov/AboutthePortAuthority/PressCenter/PressReleases/PressRelease/index.php?id=988

Now lets get the PATH to Newark Airport!..

Don31
July 21st, 2008, 01:44 PM
Now lets get the PATH to Newark Airport!..

Thats in the works as well.....