Dream Cars

[Kris]

I don't even know how to drive, so this clearly belongs to the realm of fantasy. And I believe most New Yorkers don't own cars, but assume this forum appreciates fine design. If you have one, post your little motorized dream here. Mine:

http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/mer0309101bmg.jpg
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/mer0309101cmg.jpg
http://us1.webpublications.com.au/static/images/news/aw/mer0309101dmg.jpg

http://mbspy.bacosys.be/c219cls.htm

The Vision CLS: a hybrid (coupe-sedan) currently introduced to the public in Frankfurt.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://www.ferrari.it/ferrari/images/360_spider/780x490/photo_rearred.jpg

http://www.ferrari.it/ferrari/images/360_spider/780x490/photo_threequarterfrontred.jpg

My only inconsistency as a Manhattan resident - I love cars.

[TLOZ Link5]

::sings::

O Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?
My friends all drive Porsches; I must make amends!
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends.
O Lord! Won't you buy me a Mercedes-Benz?

[ablarc]

Anyone who lives without wheels in a real city has at one time wished to just hop in a car, conveniently parked at the curb, and pick up his date. In the Eighty-eight.

Or maybe in the Smart Car.

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/01.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/02.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/04.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/03.jpg

The cute and now-fashionable Smart car is made by a division of Mercedes for the growing city-car market in big European cities. People pay more for one of these than for a Hyundai or Renault with four proper seats and four cylinders. They do this not just to save on fuel but because almost all parking in real cities is curbside, and they all know the frustration of having a car that is just a tad too big to squeeze into that alluring spot right beside their destination.

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/z.jpg

Most cars were always minuscule in Italy with its medieval streets, but for a decade or two the average auto has been shrinking in both Paris and London. This market is what kept the original Mini (10’-0”, 4 seats) alive till last year, and this market has now been taken over by the two-foot-shorter Smart. After a slow start occasioned by skepticism, it now sells briskly. At Daimler/Chrysler there is sporadic talk of US import. In the “European” cities of America it might make good sense.

The genius of the Smart is that though it is exactly one half the length of a Chevy Malibu, it drives pretty much like any other car. I have driven one myself; it was comfortable, even luxurious with its peppy engine, automatic transmission, air conditioning, supportive bucket seats, quiet interior and great stereo. The Mercedes tuner, Brabus, even offers a tweaked performance version that is a true pocket rocket. But this car is so short that you can park it nose-in to the curb.

Extremely small cars have been around for a very long time, but in the past they always came with a heavy penalty in drivability and comfort. The last time two-passenger versions sold in large quantities was during and after the gasoline panic occasioned by the Suez Canal Crisis of 1956. At that time, BMW was on the scene with the brisk-selling Isetta, which also functioned as a starter car for the nascent European trend towards universal car ownership. Unlike the Smart, this car was a primitive death-trap:

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/05.jpg http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/06.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/07.jpg

Other microcars had four (very cramped) seats, like this BMW 600:

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/21.jpg http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/73.jpg





The two-passenger urban runabout format has been around for an awfully long time. In the US, the American Austin, American Bantam and Crosley companies attempted to storm the city-car market in the Depression years. The War and widespread parking lots put an end to potential demand for this product.

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/41.jpg

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/42.jpg

If you think about it you can see that these cars with modern running gear such as you find in the Smart car would make a very attractive little package as a modern retro-car. It was not the packaging that made these cars fail in the marketplace but the technology. That has now been aced. Wouldn’t you just love to have one of these little beauties waiting for you at the curb, with a decent modern complement of creature comforts built in, and a zippy powertrain?

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/43.gif http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/44.gif

Austin, Bontam and Crosley cars also came in other body styles for urban use, including delivery and pickup:

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/45.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/46.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/47.gifhttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/77.jpg

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/78.jpg http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/79.jpg



Japan’s government formally recognized the city-car category by establishing specifications and extending privileges to these cars. Length was limited to 319.5 centimeters, and privileges included overnight parking on Tokyo’s congested streets, and designated parking spaces. Some of these cars found their way to the US, including the first Subaru sold on these shores, and an early raft of Hondas that might seem familiar:

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/58.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/74.gifhttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/75.jpg

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/60.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/61.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/59.jpg

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/62.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/63.jpg

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/64.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/65.gifhttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/76.gif

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/69.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/70.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/71.jpghttp://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/72.jpg

Here is a fantasy: you walk up to a waiting Smart car in a designated micro-parking space at the sidewalk, and you insert your electronically-coded microcar-renters subscription card into a slot in the door. The door opens, you take your seat and insert your card into a dashboard slot, your valid drivers license into another, and your thumb into the computerized thumbprint identifier. You can now push the starter button and drive off. Taking possession of the car has caused your account to be charged $10. This will provide you with a car for one hour or until you log out at a higher price, which activates the “available” indicator for the next user. Cars can be left or found all over town.

The taxi industry will hate it.

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/68.jpg
http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/66.gif

An alternative conveyance for two passengers (and maybe an alternative dream car):

http://ablarchitecture.com/images/tom/city-cars/67.jpg

[DominicanoNYC]

I don't even know how to drive, so this clearly belongs to the realm of fantasy. And I believe most New Yorkers don't own cars, but think this forum appreciates fine design.
Only 36% of New Yorkers own cars. Well the last time I heard.

[DominicanoNYC]

http://www.autohjelpen.dk/dodge-charger.jpgThe revived Dodge Charger is one of my personal favorites.

http://www.edmunds.com/pictures/247185.jpg The new BMW 5. :o I really like the sleek design of this car.

[Kris]

If you think about it you can see that these cars with modern running gear such as you find in the Smart car would make a very attractive little package as a modern retro-car. It was not the packaging that made these cars fail in the marketplace but the technology. That has now been aced. Wouldn’t you just love to have one of these little beauties waiting for you at the curb, with a decent modern complement of creature comforts built in, and a zippy powertrain?
I dislike retro design very much, which is why I hope the Smart will replace the Mini in the niche American market. The concept car was called the Swatchmobile, because Swatch was behind it and formed a partnership with Mercedes. Swatch later withdrew from the project. The Smart started its career in Europe as an advertisement device, which is how it survived the initial skepticism (its originality was exploited). It is now a common sight.

Your idea is interesting and expands this topic's scope to include the political. Small cars are still a nuisance to the pedestrian however, and I wouldn't consider one as an alternative to the freedom of walking and using mass transit. I would buy a car to escape from the city once in a while if I were loaded.

Zippy, your choice is spectacular. Too garish and sporty for me though - I prefer luxurious living rooms on wheels. I would choose the burgundy in the pictures I showed, with a black interior. I always thought a Benz should be black, but this color contrast is so flamboyantly sexy and suits the model perfectly.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Well, we are talking fantasy cars. Even if I could afford one, buying it would be followed immediately by divorce and homelessness.

If I lived in the suburbs, I would buy one. The house would look like crap, the kids would be dressed in rags - but if I have to drive to get milk, it's gonna be in a Ferrari dammit!

I have been lucky to drive a few - it's better than sex. :mrgreen:

[Kris]

Nothing's better than sex, which makes life rather democratic after all.

[Jasonik]

BMW Z8
http://www.isize.com/carsensor/CSphoto/ca/fex/image_grade/BM_300_2_1_front.JPG http://www.isize.com/carsensor/CSphoto/ca/fex/image_grade/BM_300_2_1_rear.JPG http://www.isize.com/carsensor/CSphoto/ca/fex/image_grade/BM_300_2_1_inpane.JPG http://www.posternow.com/j/j2362.jpg

The BMW Z8 has the absolute latest in intercepts, surveillance and counter measures. Fitted with Titanium plating and armor, a multitasking head-up display, and six beverage cup holders, the Z8 truly is a secret agents' dream vehicle.*
The Z8 also boasts a maneuverable ground-to-air missile launching pad, and a needle thin "sonic" laser beam which allows 007 to listen in on conversations taking place in buildings in the vicinity of the car. As usual, rockets are fitted behind the headlamps. What's more, the car can be driven by a remote handset, and it is even able to drive itself to the handset by using sensors built into the car.* :wink:

[Freedom Tower]

Nothing's better than sex, which makes life rather democratic after all.

You must've known I'd reply to this one. I want to know what sex has to do with being democratic. I really am lost as to what you mean.

And while we're on the topic: I'd love to have a Dodge Viper. I doubt I'll ever be able to afford one though :cry:. A link since I can find no site to host my pictures: http://www.dodge.com/viper/index.html?context=homepage&type=top

[Kris]

Believe it or not, I don't have you in mind when writing each of my posts and I credited you with a minimum of wit.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I want to know what sex has to do with being democratic.
Words have multiple meanings.

Democratic: relating to social equality.

More people have sex than own Ferraris.

If nothing is better than sex...can you take it from there?

[Kris]

March 19, 2004

DRIVING

Get Smart: Buyers Try to Jump the Queue

By DAN McCOSH

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/19/automobiles/19smart.xl.jpg
CURB APPEAL The 61-horsepower, three-cylinder Smart car, center, popular in Europe, will soon be sold in the United States. But some Americans don't want to wait for the officially imported versions.

MOST automotive fantasies involve a lot of horsepower, preferably wrapped in sheet metal hammered to shape in a small town in Italy. But the car that Joan Hurley of Baltimore daydreams of owning one day is a diminutive two-seater with a three-cylinder engine and just 61 horsepower. It also gets 60 miles a gallon.

"It's sort of a romantic notion," she acknowledged of her infatuation with the Smart City-Coupe, which she first saw while on vacation in Spain.

As a romantic icon, the Smart car is more Woody Allen than Humphrey Bogart. Its beguiling appearance exudes a Jetsonesque quality that would be at home in a supporting role in "Sleeper." The two-seater, also marketed as the ForTwo, is short enough to park on congested city streets with its bumper to the curb. End-to-end, two could share a single metered parking space.

But for a few hard-core American enthusiasts, the Smart has become the automotive equivalent of a Cuban cigar, gaining cachet partially because it is hard to get. The eco-friendly commuter car is one of the trendiest fashion statements on European roadways today, and is on sale in 30 countries, including Mexico. But though its maker, DaimlerChrysler, plans to begin selling a version in the United States in 2005 through its Mercedes dealerships, so far, like good Cohiba Coronas, Smarts are unavailable on these shores — legally, anyway.

That may soon change. In January, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration agreed that two would-be Smart importers could bring in the cars because they had shown they were capable of making Smarts meet United States safety standards. "It's a magnificent car," says Jonathan Weisheit, president of J. K. Technologies in Baltimore, one of the companies planning to sell Smarts in the United States. And while he only envisions selling 1,000 or so of the cars annually, George Gemayel, president of G & K Automotive Conversion in Santa Ana, Calif., said he might be able to sell as many as 15,000 Smarts a year at $18,000 to $20,000 each.

The importers will buy their cars from dealers in Europe or Canada (Smarts are scheduled to go on sale there in September) and then sell them on what is, essentially, the gray market. (They will also have to service them because DaimlerChrysler said it would not take responsibility for cars it hadn't imported.) Technically, conversion companies become manufacturers, assuming the responsibility for making any modifications necessary to meet American safety and emission standards. While European standards are similar, the differences that exist make it an expensive and time-consuming process for those hoping to bring in just a few cars.

That's what John Bristol of Dallas said he discovered when he looked into importing several Smarts with the intention of driving one and selling the others. "I looked into importing a few," said Mr. Bristol, who trades oil leases. "But it was too difficult. I'm in the oil and gas business, and I can see a need for economical cars like these." The Smart would not be his first gray-market car. In 1991, he bought a military Hummer direct from the factory, before a retail dealer network had been established.

The Smart line was originally conceived by Switzerland's Swatch watch company 10 years ago as an exercise in minimalist transportation. The idea was to create an economical yet stylish alternative form of transportation for crowded city streets. After a slow start in 1998, they are now selling briskly, with about 120,000 on the road.

Today, the cars are built by a division of Germany's DaimlerChrysler in France near the German border. The company announced last year that it was setting up a United States subsidiary, and it has been signing up Mercedes dealers in the United States to begin selling Smart models next year. Canada will be getting a two-seat Smart car this fall, but Americans won't be getting City-Coupes. Instead, they'll get small four-seat S.U.V.'s, "about the size of a Honda CRV," said David Schembri, vice president for Smart USA.

The American cars "will be designed with the U.S. in mind," he added, meaning a lineup, at least initially, of more conventional, four-seat cars, rather than the funky two-seaters many Smart enthusiasts love.

But the bigger cars don't interest many of the Smart fans. "We don't have any kids, and my wife drives seven miles to work. I drive 10 miles. We aren't really interested in the larger car," said Patrick Masterson, an architect from Virginia Beach, Va., who rented a Smart convertible while on vacation in St. Barts and is now on J. K.'s waiting list. The way the small car is designed to be both extremely compact and yet relatively crashworthy also appeals to Mr. Masterson. "I have a respect for an unusual way of solving a problem," he says.

Practicality and economy don't quite explain the passion some people feel for Smarts, which seems to approximate the early enthusiasm for the New Beetle and the Mini Cooper. Sally Jessy Raphael, the former TV talk show host, fell in love with one when she saw it in a French showroom in 1999 and put it on her credit card — then it took her more than five months to get it through United States Customs.

Ms. Hurley, who is also on J. K.'s list, acknowledges having an almost irrational fascination with the car. She has even made a picture of one her computer's screen saver. "Not everyone agrees with me. Some think it's downright ugly — an ugly golf cart." She said she once saw a Smart parked in front of the Cafe Hon, a popular Baltimore spot, and while she was admiring it, a passerby stopped and asked, "What did you do with the other half of the car?"

And fans say they're not worried about driving a car seemingly designed for a Munchkin on American highways, despite the current rage for tank-size S.U.V.'s and six-passenger pickup trucks. "Mostly, I'm concerned about parking," said Hernon Lucas, whose principal commute is the 12 miles from Yonkers to Midtown Manhattan. His current car is a full-size Dodge pickup, with a Hemi engine, the big V-8 that epitomizes the horsepower race.

"Some people look at it and have concerns about safety. I say if you get hit by an S.U.V., the S.U.V. will have a dented fender, and you will be bumped out of the way," said Mr. Weischeit, the Baltimore importer. (In Europe, Smart cars carry a three-star, out of a possible five-star crash rating, but a European insurance study notes that the cost of repairing the all-plastic body is roughly half that for fixing other small cars.)

Meanwhile, a few Smart car owners are already driving their cars on the streets in the United States, after bringing them in on the automotive equivalent of a tourist visa that assumes the cars will eventually go back to Europe. One, who goes by the online name of NJChuck, has even posted photos of himself with the car, posing with it in Times Square, in front of the lighthouse in Montauk, N.Y., and with the Jefferson Memorial in the background.

"I like to drive it into Manhattan," NJChuck said in a telephone interview. He insisted that his name not be used because of concerns about his vehicle's registration.. "I parked it alongside a stretch S.U.V. limo and took its picture."

But the charm of novelty is already wearing thin. "Frankly," he added. "I'm kind of tired of posing for pictures, I'm tired of putting my thumb up when the guy alongside does. I'm tired of waving back."

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/19/automobiles/19smar2.184.jpg
STREET SCRUTINY The rare Smart car that does show up in the United States is almost sure to draw at least a quizzical stare or a somewhat more thorough interior inspection.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company


The smart Invasion (http://edmunds.nytimes.com/advice/specialreports/articles/101361/article.html)

[NewYorkYankee]

I cant see myself driving the smart car, Its ugly. (IMO) But it would be conveinient in urban areas such as NYC. But 61 HP???? I think my 2003 Hyundai Tiburon with 140 HP dosnt have enough, I can see myself at a redlight trying to take off...LMAO....Ill pass this one up for a new V8 Benz

[Freedom Tower]

Ablarc do you own a smart-car?

[Kris]

June 4, 2004

Cute, Clean, Quiet and Legal (in Most States)

By CHRIS DIXON

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/06/04/travel/04gem.318.jpg
LOCAL ATTRACTIONS John Trevino, left, and Tim Brown get a lot of stares with their GEM's. "I have dogs bark at me because they've never seen a car like this," Mr. Trevino says.

ON most mornings when he thinks there might be a swell, Tim Brown, who lives in Laguna Beach, Calif., takes a cup of coffee and his labradoodle and heads out to check the waves. His three-finned surfboard is strapped down and ready, overhanging the tiny roof of a curious metallic-gray-and-white machine that looks one part Volkswagen Beetle, one part iMac and one part golf cart.

He climbs in, settles the dog in the passenger seat, turns a key, hits the "forward" button and rolls away in near silence through tree-lined streets toward the beach, ready for neighbors' friendly waves and tourists' dumbfounded stares. It's another day in a GEM car.

GEM stands for Global Electric Motorcar, and since 2000, when it bought the company, DaimlerChrysler has turned out thousands of them at a shiny factory in Fargo, N.D. A tiny insect-like electric with a stripped-down, surprisingly tall body on which even doors are optional, the GEM looks like an outsized Happy Meal toy. "I have dogs bark at me because they've never seen a car like this," said John Trevino, another Laguna Beach GEM owner.

But it is a real automobile — all 5 horsepower and 48 volts of it — legal in 30 states, including New York, Florida, Michigan and California. And it has been quietly creeping onto American streets, assisted by a low-key but deliberate marketing campaign and, lately, by enthusiastic owners.

"Besides being fun and adventurous getting to cruise around town without any doors, you can put four people in for double dating." said Mr. Brown, a chiropractor, who shares his GEM with his wife, Becky. "I could be on the payroll for GEM." Since he's been showing his around, he said, "I'm sure that no less than 20 people have told me that they're going to buy one."

Mr. Trevino and his wife, Kerry, defy the barking dogs to ride out often in their GEM, with their 20-month-old son in a car seat. They liked the car so much that they bought three more, which they rent out to vacationers at nearby hotels.

"Our son loves it," Ms. Trevino said. And Mr. Trevino added, "Most of our renters have kids because the kids are like, `Oh, let's go rent that thing.' "

The GEM has obvious environmental and economic advantages — no emissions, and so what if gasoline prices rise — and Mr. Trevino points out that it's visible on the road, "as tall as a minivan." But it won't replace the family car. Its maximum speed is 25 miles an hour, and the federal government classes it as a neighborhood electric vehicle, limited to roadways where the speed limit is no higher than 35. It is not required to have heavy-duty bumpers or air bags, though it does have to carry three-point seat belts, headlights, brake lights and turn signals. And though it can be recharged in the family garage, plugged into an ordinary 120-volt household outlet, for as little as 50 cents, Daimler said, depending on local electric rates, it needs a recharge after 20 to 30 miles. Where the cars are street legal, they are subject to registration and insurance rules that apply to ordinary vehicles.

So far, at least, Daimler has no plans to make the GEM faster or to increase its range, and no strategy to use it as a wedge into selling full-size electric cars. Many of the 28,000 GEM's the company estimates are now being driven in the United States are used on internal roadways at places like college campuses and state parks, or by police officers giving out parking tickets, and many of those were donated to government agencies or nonprofit groups in an aggressive 18-month giveaway program begun in 1998 to put them into circulation. (Some, like the four at Grand Central Terminal in Manhattan, spend most of their time inside buildings.) Daimler's initial interest in GEM's was to meet a mandate, now defunct, that a small percentage of automobiles distributed in California and New York would have to produce no emissions.

The company still makes occasional donations. It is lending 38 GEM's for use by delegates at the Group of 8 economic conference on Sea Island, Ga., next week — one, an American-flag-festooned four-seater, is for President Bush. But, to Daimler's delight, the GEM is also attracting customers at dealerships (dozens of GEM dealers, in several states, are listed at www.gemcar.com). Buyers pay $7,000 for a base model to $13,000 for one that's fully loaded.

According to Richard Kasper, president of the GEM division, the car is turning a profit. And though he wouldn't release actual sales figures, he said in an interview in Fargo last month that sales for 2004 were running 30 percent above projections.

The Global Electric Motorcar was the brainchild of Dan Sturges, now director of Mobility Lab, an automotive research center in Southern California that he founded in 2001. He first envisioned the GEM when he was an automotive-design student at the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena in 1986. "I was just interested in the future," he said in a telephone interview last month. "When I couldn't find any manufacturers to produce any prototypes, I set about to start up a company."

That company attracted backing and made the trans2, a GEM forerunner, in Livonia, Mich. But after 350 were sold, at $7,000 each, the molded plastic body panels began to weep an oily fluid that ruined the finish, required a recall and essentially bankrupted the company. A private investor from Fargo bought its assets for under $300,000 to start Global Electric Motorcars, began production and sold GEM for "somewhere north of $30 million" two years later, Mr. Sturges said. He is philosophical about missing the windfall, expressing gratitude that the car was kept alive.

On a stormy afternoon last month, Mr. Kasper proudly showed off the sparkling 100,000-square-foot plant in Fargo, which employs 80 people and is capable of turning out 200 GEM's a day. Skeletal, evolving cars hung from a mobile assembly line.

At the early stages, components like disc brakes and the G.E. engine, which spins backward to charge the battery during braking or coasting, were bolted to a tubular steel frame. Soon came the windshield and six lead-acid batteries, rechargeable through 3,500 to 5,000 miles. Toward the end of the line, cars picked up options like doors, a pickup truck bed, a plastic trunk or a clip-in carrier for golf bags.

Inside a door-equipped $10,000 GEM, Mr. Kasper pointed out the slide-down windows, windshield wiper and stereo, and a heater-defroster that the GEM communications manager, Christopher Mohs, said was powerful enough to get him comfortably to work in a North Dakota winter. Mr. Kasper showed off the simple controls — a fast-or-slow switch, blinkers, horn and a digital display of speed and charge level.

Off for a ride with four people aboard, the little GEM surged forward, creating a pleasant whirring hum. Like any electric, it produces prodigious torque, which gets it up to speed in a hurry, yet it rides smoothly. There is no shifting of gears or engine smoke, just pure, quiet energy. At speed, it was at once reminiscent of a golf cart and a small sports car.

With this little car, suited to the short trips that are most common for Americans, Daimler is staying in a business others have left. Ford and General Motors both sold electrics, including larger cars, in the 1990's, but have ended their programs and called back their full-size models for crushing. (Many big automakers focus instead on gas-electric hybrids and fuel-cell vehicles.)

LARRY OSWALD, GEM's chief executive, said that at first Daimler's attitude was "simply the realization that these cars would qualify and with minimum investment, at least meet the letter" of the no-emissions mandate. Then, he said, "I think there was a transition of thinking."

Now GEM's seem to be finding niches in the market.

Don Jenkins an entrepreneur in Key West, Fla., rents them to tourists and locals who quietly ply the streets of Key West, and more recently, Myrtle Beach, S.C. He said that electricity to charge the 30 cars on his main lot runs only around $140 a month. He gets $29 to $39 for two-hour rentals and $139 to $189 overnight, and has no trouble finding customers. "It feels good to drive one," he said. "They're not real cheap to rent, but 99 percent of renters seem very happy that they did."

Two years ago, Larry Dustman of Chandler, Ariz., bought a GEM to get around his home at Stellar Air Park, a fly-in community of 500 homes where, he said, there are now at least 11 other GEM's. A loophole in Arizona law at the time allowed buyers a $10,000 state refund on a new clean-air vehicle, making GEM's essentially free. The state soon closed the loophole, but Mr. Dustman was so smitten that he started NEV Accessories, a GEM accessories business, alongside his longtime sales of add-ons for the Thing, a utilitarian VW sold in the United States in the 1970's.

Today, he offers GEM add-ons like front and rear towing hitches, roof racks and high-performance wheel setups, including burly off-road knobbies or larger-radius wheels with low-profile tires, that can speed a GEM up to 30 or 35 m.p.h. Custom gearing can make them go even faster, though Mr. Dustman warns that this is not for use on public roads. He also builds custom steel beds, boxes and a hot box for GEM-based food vendors and is trying to develop rooftop solar energy collectors that will let the car recharge itself.

Back in Laguna Beach, the section of the Pacific Coast Highway that runs through town is often full of Hummers, BMW's, Cadillac Escalades and other vehicles far larger and faster than the GEM. While this tends to keep the Trevinos on the back streets, Mr. Brown motors along on the main drag unconcerned.

"People come up close behind you because you're only going 25 miles per hour," he said. "I know they have to get places quickly, but at the same time, I want to make them aware that there's a different way of doing things. Plus, I mean, you get to stop and smell the roses."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

[flat head]

...I wouldn't mind a new mini!...

...but I think that the smart car is just a little on the small side... I mean what if you were to accidentaly have children?, where would you put them, in the boot?...

boot = trunk

[Kris]

How can you "accidentally" have kids nowadays?

The CLS is now available:

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/com/e/home/products/passengercars/clsclass/images/15882.jpg

http://www.mercedes-benz.com/com/e/home/products/passengercars/clsclass/index.html

So suave.

[ZippyTheChimp]

October 29, 2004
DRIVING

The Hot Color for Cool Cars? Yellow

By LISA KALIS

DALE EARNHARDT JR.'S Corvette. Nicolas Cage's Lamborghini. Liz Claiborne's Porsche. Eric Clapton's Ferrari. The Pagani Zonda S7.3 on the cover of this month's Robb Report (one of the magazine's "10 new luxuries" for 2005, it's priced at about $300,000). They're all quintessential trophy cars — sporty, assertive and flamboyant.

And they're all yellow.

Forget about that little red sports car. Yellow shouts louder and, increasingly, it's the color of choice for the driver who wants to make an unmistakable statement on the road. Yellow is muscling in not only for high-performance cars, but on the shiny surfaces of compacts and sporty pickups — the hot models that young car buyers like to deck out with cladding and chrome.

Even the names catch the eye. Ford brought out Screaming Yellow for its 2004 Mustang. Hyundai showcased a concept car, the two-door HCD-8, earlier this year in Ballistic Yellow. Nissan has introduced Ultra Yellow for its 350Z coupe for 2005. The Porsche Boxster's egg-yolk-toned option is called Speed Yellow.

Ron Tonkin, the owner of 14 automobile dealerships in Portland, Ore., said he had seen yellow sales grow over the last year, particularly in sports cars.

Two kinds of people buy it, he said: "One, the young, and two, the young at heart." Somewhere in there is Mr. Tonkin himself. Earlier this year, he bought a yellow Ferrari, and his wife bought a yellow Maserati. "It seems to fit the sporty image," he said.

In 2003, yellow showed up as a top-10 car color for the first time in North America since 1992, popping into the lineup in the sport/compact category, according to DuPont Automotive. The company, which makes automotive paint, has tracked the most popular colors for 52 years.

No one claims yellow is likely to overtake silver, the leading car color in the United States, or to edge out subdued stalwarts like the whites and tans that clog the highways. But more and more, it is grabbing the role that red used to play in the automotive world.

Yellow is "a hot color, a fast color," said Quinton Q. Dodson, sales manager of West Coast Customs, a car customizer in Los Angeles. He sees it most, he said, in import tuner cars — the kind favored by fans of "The Fast and the Furious."

"It's for someone who's daring and wants to be noticed," said Toby Ristau, manager of J. C. Whitney, an aftermarket parts store in LaSalle, Ill. The vehicle for these people, he said, "used to be a red car."

"These are not shy and retiring vehicles," said Christopher Webb, exterior color and trend designer for General Motors, assessing the role of yellow as a Corvette color. "They're for the owner who likes everyone to know they're driving a Corvette."

Red, once the shocker that advertised this kind of personality, has become common, even sedate. It is still popular in sports cars, but it is no longer a signature for those who want to rise above the mainstream. In the DuPont survey, medium red ranked sixth for full-size and luxury cars.

Laurie Reiter, 49, an ultrasound technician from Youngstown, N.Y., is from the school of car buyers who thrive on attention. She considered red when she was buying a 2003 Mini Cooper, but decided it was too common. As she browsed the showroom, "Liquid Yellow" jumped out as the perfect fit.

"People just buy cars for transportation," she said. "But there are still a few of us who really love our cars."

When she and her husband, Jack Empson, also 49, drive their Mini to nearby Niagara Falls, they sometimes feel like the main attraction. "People turn around and stare at us," Mr. Empson said, "after they came hundreds of miles to see the falls."

AUTOMAKERS and dealers also appreciate the power of yellow.

"That's a real impulse color," said Mike Childs, the operations manager of the Dayton Auto Center in Dayton, N.J. When the dealership (which sells about one yellow vehicle a month) recently put out a yellow Dodge Ram Rumble Bee for display, he said, "one guy literally was not planning on buying anything, and drove in and said, `I have to have that truck.' "

It wasn't always this way. When Steve Levine set out to buy a used Ferrari three years ago, he was ahead of the curve. His one requirement was that the Ferrari be bright yellow, and at first all he found was frustration.

"I searched the whole country for yellow — it was not easy to find," he said. "They were all red." And red, of course "gets boring."

Mr. Levine, a real estate agent from Northboro, Mass., finally found a 1994 model — now nicknamed "Mid-Life Crisis" — in Scranton, Pa. "Yellow just screams," he said. "I love yellow."

It might be a good sign for everyone that other drivers are now buying into his philosophy — at least according to the analysis of Terrence Cressy, a marketing manager at DuPont. He called yellow "a representation of fun, spirit, and a certain sense of optimism that's started to creep back."

Manufacturers have taken to yellow, too, using it in promotional materials and when introducing new models.

"Carmakers are needing to redefine their brands," said Lorene Boettcher, a global design and color marketing manager at PPG Industries, a paint manufacturer. "There's no better way to do it than with a bright yellow."

And Mr. Cressy says yellow complements the new, hard-edged car designs: "It makes that shape pop."

The more distinctive the car, the better yellow works to define it. Hummer, an aggressive car if there ever was one, used a statement-making yellow two years ago when it introduced the H2. The reasoning: "Boldness is a Hummer trait, so why not just go for it," said David Caldwell, a spokesman for the brand.

Aside from its powerful psychological messages, yellow's flashiness can also have practical effects. Randy Chase, 46, a product designer from San Diego, picked saffron yellow for his 2005 Lotus Elise, which he bought in August, partly because the car sat so low to the ground. "I didn't want to get run over," he said. "I thought yellow would stand out more."

He hasn't had any problems standing out so far. In the first month that he owned the car, he was pulled over twice by police officers — but not for speeding. They only wanted to ask him about the car. "It screams out for attention a little more than I expected," Mr. Chase said. "It's hard to drive down the street without people yelling at you."

The color's power seems to extend to the insect world — or so some owners say. Steve Shrader, 28, of Charlotte, N.C., a fan of yellow Mustangs and the founder of a club called the Yellow Mustang Registry, recalls being in a yellow caravan stuck in traffic when a cloud of gnats descended. "They were coming in the windows," he said. "They were all over the dash and all over us, but there were no bugs on the blue and black and silver cars."

Gnats are probably not the reason, however, that some auto models are not showing up in yellow at all — notably the conventional sedans.

The color is great for a Dodge Viper, said Mr. Dodson, the West Coast Customs manager; his shop recently did one in yellow and black. But there are models he doesn't expect to see it on.

Yellow, he said, "would make a Mercedes-Benz look like a taxicab."


Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company


All sports cars are red. 8)

[Bob]

My somewhat-short list of dream cars, in no particular order:

1. 1969 Shelby Mustang GT500 convertible
2. 1969 Mustang -- all types, particularly Mach 1
3. 1966 Mustang 2+2
4. 1967 Mustang GT-A
5. 1971 Dodge Challenger R/T
6. 1965 Ford Galaxie Station Wagon (yep!)
7. 1965 Lincoln Continental
8. 1970 Ford Torino Cobra
9. 1988 Honda Accord Coupe LXi
10. Chrysler Atlantic (sp?) show car
11. Dodge Entrepid ESX show car
12. 1968 Camaro RS
13. 1968 Firebird 400
14. 1971 Boss 351 Mustang
15. 1974 AMC Concorde DL (with California emissions) -- just kidding!!

[Kris]

http://www.mercedes-benz.de/content/media_library/hq/hq_mpc_reference_site/passenger_cars/products/new_cars/_cl-class_coupe/gallery/CL-Coupe_Gallery_03_1280x1024_07-2006_jpg.d3d3Lm1lcmNlZGVzLWJlbnouZGU~-RGllIG5ldWUgQ0wtS2xhc3NlLg~~-object-Single-WALLP.jpg

[Fabrizio]

WOW a thread about cars. I do not drive....but I love automobiles... when I doodle, I draw cars.

Best styled post WW2 American cars IMHO. They still look modern... not nostalgic:

1965 Corvair

(this is the purest design of an American 4 door sedan ever )

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.vex.net/~guru/corvair/ad65/ad65show.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.vex.net/~guru/corvair/ad65/ad65.htm&h=620&w=727&sz=136&hl=it&start=22&tbnid=4LVZpJfm_vHTBM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcorvair%2B1965%26start%3D21%26ndsp%3D 21%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26client%3Dsafar i%26rls%3Dit-it%26sa%3DN

---------------

!953 Studebaker

Rotten car but the styling is timeless... a work of art. There is not a line out of place:

http://www.leoemm.com/images4/images2/studstar.jpg

--------------

1964 Avanti

Another Studebaker. Perfect design. Still ready to roll. An American Ferrari:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://autotelegraaf.nl/infoenadvies/klassiekercatalogus/images/groot/stud0090.jpg&imgrefurl=http://autotelegraaf.nl/infoenadvies/klassiekercatalogus/%3Fid%3D260&h=229&w=350&sz=15&hl=it&start=144&tbnid=qglIt4kbW7EzFM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstudebaker%2Bavanti%26start%3D126%26n dsp%3D21%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dit%26lr%3D%26client%3 Dsafari%26rls%3Dit-it%26sa%3DN

http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/Maxbarn/1963%20Avanti%20Ad-05.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Morocco



----

[lofter1]

My first car (drove it into the ground :( ) ...

1958 MGA -- British Racing Green, just like this one (but mine had black interior) ...

http://www.pauldeppermgs.com/Jpg%20files/carsales/roadsterpics/USL688LHF.jpg

[lofter1]

It was downhill from there ...

My next car: the wondrously bad Opel Kadett

http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/A4530.jpg

[lofter1]

Always wanted one of these (not very practical in NYC):

http://www.oldgmctrucks.com/photos/53gmc.jpg

[lofter1]

The car I was supposed to learn to drive in (but my older brother totaled it before I was old enough to drive :mad: ) ...

http://www.corvettes4sale.net/Images/Listings/c9dbb757023a5c4f79bf342907fb06b5.jpg

[lofter1]

so lucky me learned to drive in one of these ...

http://www.cougargulch.com/images_home/NathanCougar2(3).jpg

[Bob]

1. New Dodge Challenger (am already negotiating with the Mrs. on this.)
2. 67 Ford Galaxie XL w/429 CI V-8
3. 68 Cadillac Eldorado
4. Ford GT
5. 81/82 Thunderbird (or, for more excitement, a 79 Fairmont Futura 2.3L!)

Guess which one of these is the phony listing.

[lofter1]

Now-a-days I'm often found riding around in one of these :cool: ...

http://images.nycsubway.org/i28000/img_28759.jpg

[Bob]

What's the zero to 60 time on that baby? And, how's the cornering?

[kz1000ps]

WOW a thread about cars. I do not drive....but I love automobiles... when I doodle, I draw cars.

I think you stole those sentences right out of my head! No joke.

Without a doubt, this is my dream car:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/5338/dsc04155codu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1998-03 BMW M5. Widely considered to be one of the the best "saloons" to ever exist. And the best part is I can fit a girl AND my drums in the car at the same time, unlike, say, a Ferrari Challenge Stradale.

[Fabrizio]

Bob: some observations on your list:

3. 1966 Mustang 2+2
Why the 1966 over the original 64/65? The originals had that nice honeycomb grill. Everytime Detroit updated a hold-over design, it was usually unnecessary.

7. 1965 Lincoln Continental
Another "refreshed" design while waiting for the all-new 66s. Ugh...that flat side glass and squared off roof-line. A grille that looks like the 65 Mercury. The crome covered rear lights.

You want the impeccable, classic 1961 through 63s.

12. 1968 Camaro RS.

Again check out the original 67 with its nice simple grille and no running lights on the sides to mess up its clean design (My brother in the US recently bought a 69 Z28 to add to his collection).

Ditto for the Eldo.

---

Lofter: that truck (and its Chevy cousin) was also one of the great Detroit designs.

[pianoman11686]

One of my previous roommates is also obsessed with Beamers, especially the M3 and M5. He's sorta lucky though, because his dad actually owns one, and he gets to drive it sometimes when he goes home. All I get to drive is a Chrysler Sebring coupe.

I've always loved cars, but I don't know if I have a dream one. As of now, though, I definitely favor cars coming out of the Axis powers. The Allies are just not very exciting.

[kz1000ps]

As of now, though, I definitely favor cars coming out of the Axis powers. The Allies are just not very exciting.

HAHA! Very much agreed! Design is a very important consideration for me, and Audis currently top the cake, although their reliablility is spotty. But then there's BMW.. what can be said against them (other than costly maintenance/repair bills)..? Purposefully sporty yet sexy as hell. Can't wait to have one of my own.

[Punzie]

My first car, '72 vintage, only mine was S-brown:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791708_7.jpghttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/791000-791999/791708_5.jpg

It's good to be alive!

[ablarc]

Some like ‘em clean.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0001.jpg
56 Lincoln. Color could be better. (Or maybe not)

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0002.bmp
52 Siata Barchetta.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0003.jpg
26 Bugatti Type 38.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0003a.jpg
58 Chrysler 300.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0004.jpg
57 Citroen DS.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0005.jpg
35 Jaguar Airline.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0006.jpg
66 Pontiac GTO.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0007.jpg
49 Delahaye.


http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0008.jpg
06 Bentley Continental.

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0009.jpg
57 Facel Vega.

[asg]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/349398220_cae464bc20_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/349398248_2c438ecef3_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/349398278_f4c6b94f82_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/349398300_a098e12a29_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/349398318_0f14bcabe3_o.jpg

[Bob]

66 over the 65 Mustang...I like the brick grille over the honeycomb, plus I like the decorative side bar treatments. I think the 66 featured the optional styled steel wheels, too, which were carried over into 67.

65 Lincoln...best Lincoln EVER? This massive baby with its 400+ CI V8 was a true "turnpike cruiser." Massive. Presidential. All it needs is flags on the front fenders and watch Marines snap to a salute!

67 v. 68 GM products...either year is just great. Some phenomenal stylists at work back in the 60s. Where did all that talent go?

[OmegaNYC]

My dream car. Ferrari 360:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/36/360_Spider_F1.jpg/800px-360_Spider_F1.jpg


Yeah, son! :)

[Luca]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/349398220_cae464bc20_o.jpg



This is your DREAM car ? :eek:

Real car: Vovlvo V70 (kids, etc....)
'Dream' car: any of the old , small Merc convertibles

http://z.about.com/d/vintagecars/1/8/q/2/oldtimers_com.jpg

[kz1000ps]

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7739/1961lincolncontinentalbat8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
1961 Lincoln Continental

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4002/1962fordthunderbirdredcux5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
1961-63 Ford Thunderbird

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/778/1969fordmustangfastbackop2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
1969 Mustang - I like the looks of this year the best

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7282/1963buickrivierafq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
influenced the styling of the late 60s into the early 70s

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/8862/09nt9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
DB9

[kz1000ps]

I don't know if this is an answerable question, but what happened to auto design in the mid 70s? There's hardly a single good looking car to come about from the entire latter half of that decade. I know 5-MPH bumpers had an impact (pun somewhat intended) on styling, but man was that stuff atrocious.

[Punzie]

In the latter half of the 1970s we thought the cars coming out were the most beautiful ever. We were in love with their mileage, the new technologies seemed really cool, and the cars themselves were often called "sleek and sexy." We always poked fun of the "clunkers" of the 60s-early 70s.

Which goes to show that everything is relative. A generation from now, the cars of today may be called Ugly Betties.

[kz1000ps]

Makes sense, and I suppose that's the case with every generation. Maybe it's just my taste far removed from when these were new, but I don't see how this

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3743/volareey5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

could be considered more sleek or sexy than this

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7773/1971plymouthroadrunnerfk9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I used the Roadrunner as an example because it in my opinion best embodies the "fuselage" look that was popular around the beginning of the '70s. And the Volare, well, I suppose it's more upright stance could be seen as being more "formal" and "dignified," but I just see a lack of clean lines.

A generation from now, the cars of today may be called Ugly Betties.

I'll be one of those people calling this generation of autos ugly. Too many car designers have gone overboard with their work in an effort to create "brand identity." While nobody can accuse today's cars of looking alike (unlike, say, the early '90s), it's really resulted in some grotesque, bling-y styles that are mildly fugly today and I'm sure will age horribly. Look to today's lineup of BMWs as a perfect example (thanks Bangle!). My choice of the previous generation M5 as my dream car has much to do with the look of the current 5 series.

[Bob]

I suspect Rapunzel is pulling our leg. I certainly don't think anybody would argue that the following were "sleak and sexy" cars:

1. 1974 Vega
2. 1975 Nova
3. 1976 Buick Regal
4. 1977 AMC Concorde DL
5. 1978 LTD II
6. 1979 Ford Fairmont Futura
7. 1980 Cimarron
8. 1981 Thunderbird

Well, you get the idea. (I might be off on these years, btw.)

[kz1000ps]

The Fairmont Futura was the other car I was thinking of using as my example of typically bad late-70s styling, but I chose to stick with two Plymouths.

And the 1980-82 Thunderbird.. my God is that thing clunky looking

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5084/2373gm6.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

I haven't owned an American car since 1973.

[Bob]

Here's my lineup of cars owned since I got my driver's license in 1972:

66 Ford Galaxie -- sold
69 Mustang Grande -- sold
69 Mustang Mach 1 -- sold
69 Mustang convertible -- sold
88 Honda Accord Coupe (deceased after -- get this -- 538,000 miles)

00 Honda Accord Coupe (still the daily driver)
05 Mustang GT (weekends/no rain only)

A lot of people like myself stayed away in droves from owning an "American" car since 1973, and who could blame them? As for the new Mustang -- well, I just had to have it. The retro looks are terrific, the car is a blast to drive, and the workmanship isn't too bad. Sure, its technology doesn't hold a candle to your run-of-the-mill Honda, but I'm glad I bought it, and pleased that Ford finally built a car I wanted. If Ford updates the Mustang to compete with the new Camaro and Challenger, then I might be in the market to buy another!

[Punzie]

I suspect Rapunzel is pulling our leg. I certainly don't think anybody would argue that the following were "sleak and sexy" cars:

1. 1974 Vega
2. 1975 Nova
3. 1976 Buick Regal
4. 1977 AMC Concorde DL
5. 1978 LTD II
6. 1979 Ford Fairmont Futura
7. 1980 Cimarron
8. 1981 Thunderbird

Well, you get the idea. (I might be off on these years, btw.)

I'm taking the 1974 Chevy Vega out of this list because it was a particularly flawed car, and most people wised up to it quickly.

Of course the cars on the list are not sleek and sexy. They are ugly. (And even uglier to drive.)

I said that at the time, we thought they were sleek and sexy -- next to the gas-guzzling klunkers and station wagons of the '60s-early '70s. At the auto shows, the men wiped the cars lovingly with rags and called the cars the "ultimate-performing beauty queens." Few people knew any better.

Bob, considering that you're a baby boomer too, I'm suprised that you don't remember how much at awe you must have been with many of the cars that came out in the latter half of the 1970s. Unless you had some sort of foresight... ?

[Fabrizio]

Rapunzel you are a woman. I think its a guy thing. After 1972,3,4 guys knew the party was over.

Detroits dark, dark days:

Ford Tempo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tempo_1986-87.jpg

Chevy Chevette
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevette

"The Standard of the World"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1988_Cadillac_Cimarron.jpg

"The Car of Presidents":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lincoln_Versailles.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

As a teenager, my autoworld was dominated by GTOs, Camaro Z28s, and Road Runners.

One day on Long Island, I was in the back seat of my uncle's unassuming foreign sedan. At an antrance ramp tp the Northern State, he hit the apex (something I did not yet know about) perfectly, came out of the turn, and blasted onto the parkway. Not a rattle was heard inside the car. I asked, "Uncle Carl, what car is this?"

"A Bavaria."

In 1973, when I was looking for my first new car, I remembered that ride. I bought a 2002tii, the car that put BMW on the US map, and led to the term sports sedan. It evolved into today's 3-series.

A few years later, it was briefly stolen. The radio was surgically removed, and aside from the broken vent window, there was no damage.

I got a one month rental from the insurance company, and actually drove past where the thief parked my car on Flatbush Ave. the rental was a Mercury Bobcat, a Ford Pinto with cosmetic upgrades. Worst piece of crap I have ever driven.

Three days after it was stolen, the police found my car. I brought the Bobcat back to the rental company, and was advised that I couldn't get a refund for the remaining time. I said that I didn't care.

Currently own a BMW 330i.

[Ninjahedge]

If you look carefully at some of these guys you can see the trend.

It looks like they were trying to bring back som eof the muscle of teh early 50's kind of car, but in a different way. They kept the front wide and solid, and boxed out the edges. They also used parts that has less sleek and swoop to them.

It is hard to say exactly why they did all this, but looking at the wide front of teh new Mustang, you can see the feeling they were probably trying to get.


Unfortunately, cars like the Cimmaron established the standard for the "New" american car for a while.

Anyone remember the K car?


Skippy the station wagon was one biatchin blue plastic 4 cylinder plastic powerhouse, I gotta tell ya! And the women went WILD!!!! ;)

[Kris]

The Gullwing:

http://www.bergoiata.org/fe/voiture-roadster-60-80/Mercedes%20Gullwing%20300sl%201.jpg

[Punzie]

Today's Gullwing is clipped:
http://www.mbusa.com/media/images/microsite/slr/slr_800x600.jpg (http://www.mbusa.com/media/images/microsite/slr/slr_800x600.jpg)
This isn't my dream car because the brakes don't handle well --
I posted it to show the gull's evolution.

[kz1000ps]

Today's Gullwing is clipped

But you can open its doors in a parking garage without banging them into the vehicles next to you. Important stuff on a car that's 75" wide!

[CMANDALA]

My dream car is a 4-speed 1968 Plymouth GTX. I don't think I'll ever own one unless I win the lottery.

Here's a photo of my daily driver. I've owned it for 20 years.

[asg]

[quote=Luca;140223] http://farm1.static.flickr.com/164/349398220_cae464bc20_o.jpgThis is your DREAM car ? :eek:

This is the reason it is a DREAM car for me:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/163/355344639_07d28304a3_o.jpg

My fantasy car is this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/355355939_11f311704d_o.jpg

But I think I could be very happy to settle for this one:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/355355942_89f6dbab7a_b.jpg
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/355355942_89f6dbab7a_b.jpg)

[ZippyTheChimp]

I never realized there were so many car people here.

The first (really only) supercar I've ever driven, back in 1973.

1972 Lamborghini Miura SV. Just about the same color.
http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//miurasv30.jpg

The car debuted at the 1965 Turin auto show without a body. Inspired by thr racing Ford GT-40, it was one of the first road cars with a mid engine layout (behind the driver, but forward of the rear suspension).

At the time, Giorgetto Giugiaro had left the Bertone design company for Ghia. Bertone gave the job of crafting a body for the Miura to Marcello Gandini, who was trained as an interior designer. In 6 months, he came up with the body that was shown at the 1966 Geneva show.

I think it's one of the most beautiful cars ever built.

http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//sv1598.jpg

http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//sv1478.jpg

Opens like a GT-40
http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//sv4587.jpg

A lot smaller than it appears. The roof is only 41 inches high.
http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura//sv005488.jpg

And a thrill to drive, (almost) better than sex. A double thick plexiglass screen separates driver from engine. It was a bit noisy, but the whine of a V12 just over your shoulder was not a negative experience. And the Weber carburetors in the rearview mirror.
http://www.kldconcept.com/photos/Miura/web-cars.com//miura_www.web-cars.com%20%2821%29.jpg

Small production companies like Lamborghini could not afford wind tunnel equipment, so the car experienced some front-end lift, but that was near its top speed of over 170 mph. I barely got into 4th gear.

Production stopped in 1973 to make way for the Countach. Lamborghini facilities could only build one model. Although radical, I thought the Countach was too "Power Rangers."

[musicial]

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6010/dikkatanadol042aj.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/278/classc2005069rv.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1037/autoshow0608berberoglustc038pr.jpg

This car ,which was produced between 1973-1975, is Coupe version of Anadol. there are only 176 of them. Anadol , which was produced in between 1966-1986,is the only car mark of Turkey.

[kz1000ps]

^ Oh my goodness -- do I spy an M5 wagon?! Me waaaaaaant one. Imagine the cop's reaction when they see a station wagon blow by at 155. They'd say to themselves, "that's unpossible!"

Now if only BMW would ditch Bangle and his kooky styling.

[ablarc]

Now if only BMW would ditch Bangle and his kooky styling.
The styling is kooky, but it's worth noting that BMW supplanted Mercedes-Benz as the world's highest-volume manufacturer of premium automobiles during the Bangle era. At least folks know you're driving a Beamer when one of these lumpy chariots rolls by. Have you noticed the Bangle-ization of new models from Lexus and Acura?

As you see more and more of these, they look less and less strange as they become mainstream. Thus always with pathfinders. Folks didn't like Van Gogh at first either.

I can see BMW's board congratulating themselves that they had the sense to recognize the worth of that *harumph* adventurous young Bangle.

What do you think of the Z4?

[Fabrizio]

Zippy: "I never realized there were so many car people here."

These are just 3 from dear (boomer-with-too-much-money) brother's drag racer collection. These BTW, are restored to their original early 60s condition as they appeared at the drag strip. The 1963 Dodge "Maverick" was quite a legendary racer. It has since been sold to a museum in Nevada.

The whole thing is soooo red-neck butch:


---

[Fabrizio]

This is the 64:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BILL-GOLDEN-MAVERICK-1964-DODGE-330-SUPERSTOCK_W0QQitemZ280069489719QQihZ018QQcategory Z47190QQcmdZViewItem

[Punzie]

Detroits dark, dark days:

Ford Tempo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tempo_1986-87.jpg

Chevy Chevette
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Chevette

"The Standard of the World"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1988_Cadillac_Cimarron.jpg

"The Car of Presidents":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lincoln_Versailles.jpg

Fab, if you recall, I was addressing Kz1000ps's comment about cars in the latter half of the 1970s being ugly. That knocks the Tempo and Cimarron out of the box.

The Chevette was an ugly, poorly built accordian, and nobody ever thought it was anything but. That said, it was not considered to be a marketing failure, a "darkness" for Detroit. Its rock bottom price and relatively good mileage made it the only car many people could afford, and it stayed in production for 11 years.

The Versailles was a marketing disaster (squarely in the late 1970s) because it was almost immediately apparent that it was a knockoff of the lower-priced Ford Granada. From a purely physical appearance perspective, though, many people considered the car to be attractive. Not attractive enough to buy...


Rapunzel you are a woman. I think its a guy thing.

Having dwelled in a predominantly male environment my whole life, I have heard countless times that all gay men know more about baking cookies than cars. I never believed it, and don't you go believing that there aren't a few females out there who have a "guy thing" about cars.:)

[lofter1]

The Chevette was an ugly, poorly built accordian, and nobody ever thought it was anything but ...

So true ... a spawn of THIS (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=139285&postcount=25)

[Fabrizio]

Rapunzel: "Having dwelled in a predominantly male environment my whole life.."

yeah... I've found that if you know how to talk cars AND bake cookies, it doubles your chances.

[kz1000ps]

The styling is kooky, but it's worth noting that BMW supplanted Mercedes-Benz as the world's highest-volume manufacturer of premium automobiles during the Bangle era.

True, but that has also coincided with a noticeable downturn in quality over at M-B. And, perhaps a function of BMW's Bangle-ization, their styling has become rather staid (to me the current E-class blends in with the crowd as much as a Camry).

At least folks know you're driving a Beamer when one of these lumpy chariots rolls by. Have you noticed the Bangle-ization of new models from Lexus and Acura?

I most certainly have. The question should be more like - can you not notice it?

As you see more and more of these, they look less and less strange as they become mainstream. Thus always with pathfinders. Folks didn't like Van Gogh at first either.

True to an extent, and while Bangle did more than help to push things towards this decidedly baroque period of styling, designers were going in this direction long before the 2002 7-series came out. For instance, I think of the 2000 Nissan Maxima as one of the first to purposely go for a more grotesque look, especially in the butt:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/8/812imagess9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beides Bangle, I'd say two, perhaps three, other major factors have brought about this current kookiness: 1 is the sheer need to get away from the jellybean conservative look that was everywhere by the mid 90s (see the 2000 Maxima compared to the '99 model); 2 is the influence from the tuner culture (again, the taillights on the 2000 Maxima come straight from SoCal); and 3 would be the influence of current architectural trends. Bangle has freely admitted that Gehry has shaped (no pun intended) his work, which is a total non-surprise when you give it even one second of thought.


What do you think of the Z4?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7818/bmwz41xy9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The big thing that stands out is how visually all of its weight is put towards the front. The bulging "shark" nose, the shoulder line that gradually sinks as it meets the real wheel hump combined with the concave curves in the doors; it makes the back third of the car look sort of like an appendage without much of a clear (or at least BMW-serious) purpose.

This stands in direct contrast to the wedge stance that has been the standard in sports car design for however long, and that stance has been the standard because that's how moving vessels logically (and naturally) organize themselves. To me, it's just a bit too awkward for my tastes, and I really don't like those concave curves on the sides: they make the doors look weak and relaxed, not ready to pounce on the asphalt and make it pay.

[asg]

^ Oh my goodness -- do I spy an M5 wagon?! Me waaaaaaant one.
:)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/356612029_35dda9ab11_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/149/356604966_106e1643f8_b.jpg


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/356604969_dee16eb591_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/143/356612032_a4e56ee14f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/356604967_7b5059151e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/147/356604963_519dbd418f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/356604973_867713a39c_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/356604976_945a3a31c8_b.jpg
:D

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7818/bmwz41xy9.jpg

A big problem is the poor relationship between the front and rear wheel openings-fender flares. Despit its front-heavy appearance, the car looks like it's about to do a wheelie.

The concave surfaces and creases (what Bangle calls flame surfacing) are an eye-catching gimmick. When you see the car for the first time, and this is more pronounced in person than from a photo, the random shadows look interesting. But after getting accustomed to the car, the lack of unity in the overall design becomes apparent.

The Bangle Butt.
http://www.abcars.13tka.com/samochody/bmw/645/bmw-645ci-015.jpg

[ablarc]

Bangle also greatly altered the twin kidneys.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I'm not gonna pin that whole thing on him.

More or less evolving into vestigial organs.

BMW 501 (the Baroque Angel)
http://www.auto.cz/plakaty/2004-33/1bm2_411cce6c30709.jpg

I wonder if any future designer will have the guts to eliminate them.

[ablarc]

^ I meant Bangle's latest standard version of the kidneys is a big change from the immediately previous standard iteration (somewhat vertical rounded rectangles, no slats). That one had been around in mildly evolving form since the 1800, 1600, 2002 generation.

That Czech website is great. Makes you realize how many interesting cars we don't get in the USA.

[Punzie]

ASG, is that your M5 wagon? (Is that you driving it?) If so, please indulge us with a few details on what it's like to be behind that wheel.:cool:

[kz1000ps]

Despit its front-heavy appearance, the car looks like it's about to do a wheelie.

When I look at the Z4 I'm reminded of a trike, and I think this comment plays to the same exact notion.

The concave surfaces and creases (what Bangle calls flame surfacing) are an eye-catching gimmick. When you see the car for the first time, and this is more pronounced in person than from a photo, the random shadows look interesting. But after getting accustomed to the car, the lack of unity in the overall design becomes apparent.

Bangle himself has said that his vehicles are to be experienced in person, and, again, this speaks to his drawing inspiration from buildings and architects, namely Gehry. While Audis are sensually drawn from the Bauhaus tradition, BMWs are now firmly in the realm of Gehry and seemingly nobody else. And unfortunately (yet not surprisingly) Gehry's aesthetic doesn't translate well onto moving metal boxes.


About the Bangle Butt, I personally like it on the 6 series and perhaps also on the new Mercedes-Benz S-class. Those examples are well executed and look like a coherent part of the form. Plus, I appreciate the bustle-backed vehicles they make me think of. But take the current watered down 7 series:

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/7544/e66013cr8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It looks like the shoved a box down onto the bumper, painted it, and called it a day. Same with the new generation Camry. But on the whole, I find the Bangle Butt to be one of the least controversial issues.

Probably most controversial of all for me (although those "expressive" headlights are a close second) would be the side sculpting. Take the current 5 series:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3941/5series2kj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Although there's a lot of subtle curves going on, it's simply too much, and the overall effect is deadening to the point that I see nothing but a slab side between the shoulder line and the rocker panel, be it in pictures or driving by on the street. And on a BMW, whose body has always bulged with purposeful muscularity, I'm left with a wierd feeling inside. (and those headlights.. oh my)

Also, I came across this while searching for images.. the new Mecedes-Benz CL. I see so many things wrong with this design, but the biggest taboo for me are those tapering C pillars. If there's one element I can't stand it's C pillars that grow thinner as they reach the rear quarter panel... no no no no NO!

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/5121/41449a4dd8bc051yr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[kz1000ps]

Oh, and Zippy, since I'm on a Bangle-bashing rant, I gotta ask: is your 330i an E46 (pre-2006) or an E90 (post-)

?

[ablarc]

... the biggest taboo for me are those tapering C pillars. If there's one element I can't stand it's C pillars that grow thinner as they reach the rear quarter panel... no no no no NO!
Like this?

http://66.230.220.70/images/post/dreamcars/0100.jpg

[kz1000ps]

Yes, although it should be noted that on a two-tone vehicle like that, the problem isn't as important since the different colors divide the roof and body into two separate components.

But on the C class I posted, that tapering C pillar looks weak and puny, and when it's a major structural element to keeping the roof up, I think it should look the part.

[ablarc]

Swoops and tapers: it's the return of the boomerang style.

[kz1000ps]

I hope Bangle never gets his hands on this book:

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7499/googiesn1.jpg

[Fabrizio]

I dont think many Americans know that Bangles first high-profile job was this hideous looking Fiat (1994)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fiat_Coupe_vl_blue.jpg

Bangle also worked on this spyder... it was a success:

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immagine:Fiat_Barchetta_black_l.jpg

---

Tapering C-pillars:

The first American hartops (GM 1949) had tapered c-pillars and remained that way until 1959:

http://www.misterw.com/Cadillac/49Cad2Dr07.html

Chrysler continued useing the tapering C-pillar style through the 60s (it was their signature hardtop look) and on into the early 70s:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1967GTX.jpg

---

Kz1000 about the wedge shape writes: "This stands in direct contrast to the wedge stance that has been the standard in sports car design for however long, and that stance has been the standard because that's how moving vessels logically (and naturally) organize themselves. "

The wedge shape for sportscars is a development from the 1970s. This is the car (a rather horrid vehicle) that really introduced it in a big way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_TR7

Before then, sports cars were about the looooong hood / short rear deck.

The sillouette of the BMW, with its cut-off rear deck and "power-surge" front-end, is a nostalgic throwback, recalling THIS (minus the grace):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1950_Jaguar_XK120_34.jpg

-------------------

In other words: stern down, prow up:


---

[asg]

ASG, is that your M5 wagon? (Is that you driving it?) If so, please indulge us with a few details on what it's like to be behind that wheel.:cool:

Yes, it's mine and I'm driving it in those photos. With my $365k bonus this year from Goldman Sachs, I bought this car and hired some photographers to take pictures of me in it!

[Bob]

365K? Geesh...I'm in the wrong business!

[ablarc]

Yes, it's mine and I'm driving it in those photos.
European license plates?

[asg]

European license plates?

Well, you see...I purchased it with European delivery, so that I could spend the holidays skiing at my villa in Arlberg.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Oh, and Zippy, since I'm on a Bangle-bashing rant, I gotta ask: is your 330i an E46 (pre-2006) or an E90 (post-)?
E46, so have at him.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Concave sheetmetal.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Corvette-je-1958.jpg

[CMANDALA]

This was somebody's dream car, a 351ci Mustang Convertible. Plenty of parking space in Alley Pond Park, Queens.

[kz1000ps]

I dont think many Americans know that Bangles first high-profile job was this hideous looking Fiat....

Chrysler continued useing the tapering C-pillar style through the 60s (it was their signature hardtop look) and on into the early 70s.....

The wedge shape for sportscars is a development from the 1970s......Before then, sports cars were about the looooong hood / short rear deck.

Thanks for the history lessons on Bangle's work, my hated tapering C pillars (another "stellar" example would be the original Starship Enterprise), and the wedge look. I never thought about car design as related to speedboats. Of course now with aerodynamics as a chief concern that shape would hardly pass muster.

Concave sheetmetal.

Done right.

[Fabrizio]

hard to imagine today but boats where a design inspiration for sports cars. The "boat-tail" was a body style used during the 20s and 30s:

http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/aubr3303.htm

http://www.packardmuseum.org/store/images/10054_lg.gif

[kz1000ps]

The boattail look is one of several reasons why I don't mind the Bangle Butt, even if the current incarnation is a truncated one.

And as long as we're talking about cars with boattails, we can't forget about this land barge:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2757/15riv2036sl7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

1971-73 Buick Riviera

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://www.vettepics.com/images/65/1965_silver_092605.jpg
Corvette Stingray


Its rival for sports car status in 60s America.

http://passionlegende.free.fr/www/guppy/Passionlegende/Collection/competition/Le_mans_classique_2004/Net_G_IMG_4800.jpg
Jaguar E-type

[Fabrizio]

Jan&Dean 1964:

"I was cruisin' in my Stingray late one night,
When an XKE pulled up on the right
He rolled down the window of his shiny new Jag,
And challenged me then and there to a drag

I said "You're on buddy -- my mill's running fine,
Let's come off the line now at Sunset and Vine
But I'll go you one better, if you've got the nerve,
Let's race all the way -- to Dead Man's Curve"

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif :)

[lofter1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcDtobKr-_M

[Fabrizio]

The outsider. Hardcore cool in 64:

http://www.pbase.com/image/31737428

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKFraNWanxM

[dancermama]

one of my dream car is a mercedes G500 SUV. I love big trucks and suv's but I have a small car. the benz is over 80 thousand so im probally better off getting the Hummer H3, which is much cheaper.

[Bob]

Check out the lines on that 63 Riviera...wow. The car looks like it's going 100 mph, just sitting still. Bill Mitchell was such a genius!!

[Stern]

I'm a big fan of german cars (except for Mercedes), I love there mostly understated and timeless styling, I'm a big fan of the boxed look, there engineering, sound, and pick-up. If I'm ever in the market to buy another car it would probably be an Audi, BMW, or Porsche.

Audi.

RS4:

http://www.caradisiac.com/media/images/le_mag/mag262/audi-rs4-s2b.jpg

Faster than practically anything that BMW or Mercedes makes and faster than a Porsche Cayman, it’s no coincidence as Porsche is now a majority share-holder in Volkswagen.

BMW:

1 Series:

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2007_geneva/0701_z+2008_bmw_1_series_3_door+front_side.jpg

I really like the looks of this pocket rocket. It reminds me a lot of the 318ti, which while it never, took off in America it was probably one of my favorite Bimmer’s of all time. It was cheap and fun with a lot of cool features, such as the California Edition which came with a folding canvas roof. While I don’t expect this version to have that feature, I wholly expect it to be a blast to drive nevertheless.

M6:

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2005_geneva/0503_05+2006_BMW_M6+Front_Passenger_Side_View.jpg

This is the ultimate driving machine. For me, nothing tops this car. I would probably feel too guilty driving this. The only thing I would possibly change is to give it larger rims and drop it ever closer to the ground. Not that its stock 19" rims are anything too scoff at, like I said I would definetly feel too guilty driving this.

Porsche:

Targa:

http://www.automobilemag.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0607_z+2007_porsche_911_targa+03.jpg

The Targa solves the compromise between a hardtop (speed) and preference and a convertible (fun). And its the closest to the classic Porsche styling that many of its models have since strayed from.

Lastly....

Volkswagen R32 (Four Door):

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2005_frankfurt/0509_frankfurt_049+2006_volkswagen_golf_r32+front_ left_view.jpg

The original pocket-rocket and all around fun car to drive. The fact that its now offered as a sedan doesn't change its allure, it only adds to its utility.

[Stern]

Also since we're on the subject of car design, I’m wondering what everyone’s opinions are on the new Lincoln’s. I would never buy an American car, but I appreciate that some are going in the right design direction such as Saturn, the Aura, the Sky, and the Outlook, and Pontiac, the Solstice, and the G6. My question is with Lincoln, I understand that Ford is in dire straits economically, so my question is why they are coming out with quite possibly the ugliest new cars I have ever seen. Maybe it’s my fondness of modernism and understated design, but for me the new Lincoln’s aren’t so much overdone, which they are, as they are just plain ole’ ugly.

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_chicago/0603_chicago_039+2007_lincoln_navigator+front_view .jpg

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2006_chicago/0603_chicago_019+2007_lincoln_navigator+front_righ t_view.jpg

And this one...

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.com/images/mkx/mkx_2_1024.jpg

The word Gremlin pops into my head whenever I see it.

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.com/images/mkx/mkx_1_1024.jpg

[ablarc]

My question is with Lincoln, I understand that Ford is in dire straits economically, so my question is why they are coming out with quite possibly the ugliest new cars I have ever seen?
Because they don't know they're ugly?

[kz1000ps]

They're trying to restore some of the glory the brand once had, and they think that can be done by copying the looks of their grilles from the '60s and pasting them onto thoroughly modern forms, and surprise! it's not exactly meshing. It's incredibly similar to what Buick (another company on the verge of utter insignificance) is doing using Portholes on the front quarter panels - recall a better time to make up for having mediocre-at-best products now.

Especially in the Navigator's case, the original had a very clean, dignified look to it, and I still think it's attractive today. But this one.. it's obvious it's trying so hard to one-up the Escalade in the "bling" department that it ends up looking rather comical, like it has braces on its teeth.

[ablarc]

Does the American auto industry have a future?

[kz1000ps]

.......................no comment

[Punzie]

A sports car that is environment-friendly and not dependent on gas.

Meet the first electric sports car ever, the Venturi Fetish:

http://www.clean-auto.com/IMG/jpg/Fetish1-600.jpg

Price: About one-half million dollars.:(

[Fabrizio]

Stern: that grille is from exactly 1963. Compare side by side:

http://www.dreamcarclassicsonline.com/cgi/displaydetails.pl?stockno=0085-1449&allphotos=L04

Ford trashed Lincoln long ago. For young people the brand really means nothing now. People old enough to remember its glory days, buy European.

[ZippyTheChimp]

A sports car that is environment-friendly and not dependent on gas.

Meet the first electric sports car ever, the Venturi Fetish:

Price: About one-half million dollars.:(
Well, it is a dream car.

Good performance too: 0-60 in 4.5 sec. Constant torque. Top end only 100 mph, though (only one gear).

[kz1000ps]

Assuming American automakers absolutely need to restructure and simplify things, what brands should go? Oldsmobile and Plymouth already bit the dust back at the beginning of the decade.

Currently:

GM
Chevrolet
GMC
Cadillac
Pontiac
Buick
Saturn
Hummer
-----
Saab

Ford
Ford
Mercury
Lincoln
-----
Volvo
Jaguar
Aston Martin
Land Rover

Daimler-Chrysler
Dodge
Chrysler
Jeep
-----
Mercedes-Benz

[ZippyTheChimp]

These are just 3 from dear (boomer-with-too-much-money) brother's drag racer collection. These BTW, are restored to their original early 60s condition as they appeared at the drag strip. The 1963 Dodge "Maverick" was quite a legendary racer. It has since been sold to a museum in Nevada.

The whole thing is soooo red-neck butch:---I never cared much for drag racing, but I remember summer weekends at street races on 1st Ave in Brooklyn (along the piers near the Bush Terminal buildings).

At one point, there were food vendors, and rudimentary staging lights, The night shift at the DSNY garage used to sit outside and watch the races.

Every once in a while, police would block off all the side streets, then come in one end, forcing everyone to scramble toward the southern "exit," where they were waiting to hand out tickets.

A bonanza.

[Fabrizio]

KZ: IMHO...eliminating well established brand names is not the way to go.

GM could have done without Saturn. Look how theyve trashed Saab.

Oldsmobile, even Buick, could have become specialty brands with one or two offerings.

Toyota becomes almost the worlds biggest car company selling just 7 car models (Im talking about cars... not trucksand SUVs)... just they way GM did in the 50s: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.

They should simplify things by eliminating models...not brands.

[ablarc]

Currently:

Daimler-Chrysler
Dodge
Chrysler
Jeep
-----
Mercedes-Benz
Add Maybach and Smart.

KZ: IMHO...eliminating well established brand names is not the way to go.

Oldsmobile, even Buick, could have become specialty brands with one or two offerings.
American car execs are stupid at the very top and yes-men just below. In aggragate, they don't know how to run a car company; plummeting sales and undesirable cars prove that. Sales are actually much higher than they should be; that results from customer loyalty.

Toyota becomes almost the worlds biggest car company selling just 7 car models (Im talking about cars... not trucksand SUVs)... just they way GM did in the 50s: Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
Have to add Lexus and Scion.

They should simplify things by eliminating models...not brands.
And make each brand name stand for something distinct --but certainly not via badge engineering; look what that did to mighty Leyland (BMC).

[Stern]

Assuming American automakers absolutely need to restructure and simplify things, what brands should go? Oldsmobile and Plymouth already bit the dust back at the beginning of the decade.

Currently:

GM
Chevrolet
GMC
Cadillac
Pontiac
Buick
Saturn
Hummer
-----
Saab

Ford
Ford
Mercury
Lincoln
-----
Volvo
Jaguar
Aston Martin
Land Rover

Daimler-Chrysler
Dodge
Chrysler
Jeep
-----
Mercedes-Benz


From what I've read GMC while still struggling is doing the best of the big 3. Chevrolet is the staple product. GMC produces a quality truck product. Cadillac will always have an allure. Pontiacs serve young professionals and Saturn attracts an even younger crowd and the new family set. Buick serves the retired who don’t want the self-image of a Cadillac. The only company I would eliminate is Hummer; there is no need for them in this day and age. I have never liked any product that Ford has come out with, although their entire product in rebadged throughout their line I would drop Mercury. Lincoln is hardly a luxury product anymore and I wonder where Mercury falls. I would focus attention on creating an attractive entry market through Ford, i.e. drop the 500, I believe the Escape and Focus are there respective biggest sellers and then create a range of affordable to outlandish luxury products all under the Lincoln badge. I would keep the current hierarchy at Chrysler; even though the new Dodge’s are butt ugly they do have an appeal to the NASCAR, Jethro-named market and they would be wise to stick by it. Chrysler did well with the introduction of the 300, Crossfire, and Pacifica, they should stick to cars though and continue to introduce innovative products and drop the tired and hideous, Jethro-chromed Aspen. Jeep should be the only company under the Chrysler umbrella that creates SUV’s, they should come out with some bare-bones models such as the legendary, original Cherokee, as well as venture into the cross-over market but to be careful in creating a product that retains the classic Jeep look.

[Punzie]

You selfish bastards.:)

Your dream cars are everybody else's nightmares: harmful to the environment, dependent on foreign oil. If you're not interested in my Fetish, at least dream about hybrids!

[Fabrizio]

My dream company would be called American Motors.

Its 1967. Im a billionare and start buying. This is the result.

The line-up in 2007:

Rambler (Toyota Camrey type car... plus.... with a cool early 70s Saab allure.)

Avanti (competes with BMW and Lexus)

Harley-Davidson ( motorcycles ...and cars that compete with Porsche)

Mack (pick-up trucks)

Airstream (suvs, crossovers)

( BTW: this year we are buying a piece of Lockheed Martin and will use the name for our new sports car)

---

[Bob]

Dreaming about hybrids is like dreaming about margarine or Caro. Butter is better. And so is 100% pure maple syrup. Ain't nothing like the real thing.

[Stern]

Dreaming about hybrids is like dreaming about margarine or Caro. Butter is better. And so is 100% pure maple syrup. Ain't nothing like the real thing.

I dont agree with that at all. Hybrid technology only returns energy to the car, it’s more or less new technology attached to a conventional engine. Toyota showed us what’s possible with hybrid technology with their FT-HS concept at the Detroit Auto Show. This beast provides 400 horsepower with about an additional 5 miles in gas mileage than its competitors. Not having to fill up as often and getting the same output, I could see that being an attribute of my dream car. Not so much the cost, because if you can afford a 400 horsepower car you can afford the gas, but the convenience of not having to fill up as often is also a luxury feature.

Also not to nitpick but according to recent research butter happens to be nutritionally healthier than Margarine, nowadays.

http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/2007_detroit/0702_z+2007_toyota_ft-hs-concept+4.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

Shopping Denied

Lat summer in the Meatpacking District.
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9239/meatpacking013hl.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=meatpacking013hl.jpg)

[Jasonik]

I saw one of these parked on the street recently and stared at it and walked around it examining the lines for like 5 minutes...

http://photos.ebizautos.com/6259/1409185_2.jpg (http://www.europeancoachcompany.com/detail-2005-bentley-continental-gt-san_diego-1409185.html)

[lofter1]

Spotted today on the streets of NoHo ...

If you're going to have a truck in NYC it's smart to have a small-ish one -- and bein' stylish never hurts ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/NoHoChevy_01a.jpg

Nice wood in the bed ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/NoHoChevy_01d.jpg

Chrome reflecting the buildings across Great Jones Street ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Greenwich%20Village/NoHoChevy_01c.jpg

[asg]

What is the best garage in Manhattan below 14 ST? The lowest monthly price to park a car below 14 ST?


264hp, 28MPG, $23,955:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/176/376942320_423e639d2d_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/376451142_6bdd0233e9_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/376451147_5f2d0dae90_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/376451154_170085bb78_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/376451156_6357a1e6c5_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/376451144_a425b30b9b_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/376942381_2c8c2705b4_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/141/376942443_ea1b15ed70_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/376942360_a6ac0adf81_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/160/376942481_24f1eb826d_o.jpg

[kz1000ps]

New Mercedes-Benz C Class, in the designer's words:

"In 2005 Mercedes-Benz introduced a new design idiom with a focus on clarity of expression: the designers were guided by the principles of purism, which were interpreted in keeping with the times."

"This means concentrating on what is important, i.e. surfaces and lines, and dispensing with all superfluous embellishments or visual detours.

"Less is more: the dialogue between tautly drawn lines and large, tranquil surfaces is enough to convey the message of effortless superiority and serenity. The new C-Class is a further representative of this design idiom."

That is NOT a pure, taut shoulder line
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/5299/mercedesbenzcclass2lgct8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4044/mercedesbenzcclass3lgyl2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Jeep Trailhawk concept:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7852/jeeptrailhawkconcept2lgvw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Chevy Volt concept:

The Volt Concept is the first application of GM's E-Flex System, in which electricity can be produced from different types of fuel. It is equipped with an electrical motor coupled with a compact 1-liter gasoline engine that can re-charge the battery, increasing range and fuel economy.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6176/chevroletvoltconcept4lgfj2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

more info can be found here: http://www.carbodydesign.com/news.php

[ZippyTheChimp]

November 30, 2006

First Glance

Finally, a Fuel Cell Car That Doesn’t Look Like a Science Fair Escapee

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/11/29/automobiles/30fcx600.jpg
Jamie Rector for The New York Times
The Honda FCX fuel cell design study. After years of fiddling and fine-tuning, Honda’s hydrogen fuel cell technology is tantalizingly close to production.

By JERRY GARRETT

Introduced on Wednesday: Honda FCX Concept

Is it real? As real as the future.

What’s the point? You don’t have to be a scientist, rocket or otherwise, to grasp the significance of hydrogen. The universe positively reeks of it. Figure out a way to pump it into cars and you will be the energy baron of tomorrow.

The company line: “The FCX Concept achieves a new dimension in environmentally friendly driving pleasure not found with gasoline-engine vehicles,” said John Mendel, senior vice president of American Honda.

The view from here: After years of fiddling and fine-tuning, Honda’s hydrogen fuel cell technology is tantalizingly close to production. Three times more efficient than a gas engine? Twice as thrifty as a hybrid? Sign me up.

What makes it tick? In his round of advances, Honda introduces the vertical-flow fuel cell stack, a design that is smaller, lighter and more efficient than earlier efforts. Performance also improves in the critical area of cold start-up, and range is improved by using a more powerful lithium-ion battery.

How much, how soon? If you have to ask how much, you couldn’t afford it. The first FCX production vehicles, due in Japan and the United States in 2008, will be selectively leased, not sold.

How’s it look? Beyond cool. Defies contemporary beliefs that any hybrid or alternative-fuel vehicle must be as homely as a 1977 Lada Niva.

Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company


[mg]http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/tokyo/0510_tokyo_039+2006_honda_fcx_concept+rear_side_vi ew.jpg[/img]

Earlier version:
http://auto.pege.org/2006-hannover/honda-fcx-wasserstoff.jpg

[shocka]

http://longisland.craigslist.org/car/273938613.html (http://longisland.craigslist.org/car/273938613.html)

Unfortunatly, I have to let go of this beauty, my loss is your gain!

[Ninjahedge]

So Sticka, Shocka?

[Punzie]

Very nice car, Shocka. When were those pictures taken? I see full green lawns and deciduous trees with leaves.

P.S. Three more posts and you become a Senior Member!

[shocka]

Thanks, I wish I could afford to keep this car in LIC, just not going to happen. I know I am going to regret selling it!

Those pictures were taken in January, one of those random 60 degree weeks.

[AMBITION]

interesting thread. Mustang Celline 2007 just bought it :D don't have the picture right now, but i'll post it later.

[shocka]

interesting thread. Mustang Celline 2007 just bought it :D don't have the picture right now, but i'll post it later.


Saleen?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Celine - isn't that the one with the annoying squeak?

[Punzie]

... That is, nightmares!

Forbes: Slideshow of Most-Recalled Cars of 2006:

http://www.forbes.com/vehicles/2007/02/16/vehicle-recall-safety-forbeslife-cx_dl_0219recall_slide.html?partner=yahooautos


.

[Punzie]

No joke: U.S. comedian wrecks rare Ferrari

March 27, 2007

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Maybe Eddie Griffin should leave the driving to his chauffeur. The comedian destroyed a rare million-dollar Enzo Ferrari on Monday [3/26/07] when he crashed it into a barricade while promoting a movie. He was unhurt in the low-speed incident, at Irwindale Speedway, about 20 miles (32 km) east of Los Angeles.

"The brother's good at karate and all the rest of that, but the brother can't drive," Griffin told reporters.

He was practicing for a celebrity charity racing event tied to his upcoming film, "Redline."

The car, one of just 400 manufactured, belonged to the film's producer, Daniel Sadek. Sadek estimated that the car was worth $1.2 million, and seemed philosophical about the loss, saying he was just happy that Griffin was unharmed.

The real-estate investor has put up his own money for the $26 million picture, and allowed one of his two $200,000 Porsche Carreras to be destroyed for a scene in it.

News Source:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070327/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_comedian_ferrari



The limited edition Enzo Ferrari was shown at the 2003 New York International Auto Show, April 16, 2003:
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20070327/i/ra2580177340.jpg
(Does anybody remember seeing it?)




The videorecording of the Eddie Griffin crash is posted in this clip:
MILLION DOLLAR TEST DRIVE (http://www.yahoo.com/s/542315)

.

[ZippyTheChimp]

When Dreams Collide

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide4.jpg
1938 BUICK Y-JOB Considered the first concept car.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide1.jpg
FUTURE SHOCK The 1955 Lincoln Futura, which became the Batmobile.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide2.jpg
The 1961 Ford Gyron.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide3.jpg
TWO ENGINES The 2005 Jeep Hurricane.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide5.jpg
1956 DODGE DART Only the name made it into production.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide6.jpg
1956 PACKARD PREDICTOR Made with Ghia of Italy. The car caught fire before its debut.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide7.jpg
1958 FORD NUCLEON A nuclear dream.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide8.jpg
1959 CADILLAC CYCLONE The jet-fighter look, without wings.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide9.jpg
1962 FORD MUSTANG I Some of its ideas are in the Porsche Boxster.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide10.jpg
1990 CERV III Never produced, but made it into a video game.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Continued

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide11.jpg
2000 GENERAL MOTORS PRECEPT A diesel-electric hybrid.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/01/05/automobiles/07conc.slide12.jpg
2003 DODGE TOMAHAWK With four wheels and the V-10 engine from a Dodge Viper, was it a car or a motorcycle?

[NewYorkDragon]

A flying DeLorean! Nah, not really. THIS would be my dream car:

http://carsmedia.ign.com/cars/image/article/711/711993/the-fast-and-the-furious-tokyo-drift-car-of-the-day-neelas-rx-8-20060609025855229.jpg

But,...seeing as I don't even know how to drive -- that won't happen until I get my license and become rich.

[ablarc]

1938 BUICK Y-JOB Considered the first concept car.
That's Harley Earl at the wheel, and his ghost might dispute your characterization. After all, at Chicago's 1933 "Century of Progress" Exposition Earl himself had unveiled the Cadillac Aero-Dynamic Show Coupe.

http://www.pierluigisurace.it/imagerie/images/GCOC0036_1936_Cadillac_Aero_Dynamic_Coupe.jpg

Breathtakingly ahead of its time (just like the Y-Job), dramatically streamlined, pontoon fenders, fastback, V16, V-split windshield, amazingly clean lines --well before Gordon Buehrig's second-generation Cord.

This car would influence designers for years to come (just like the Y-Job) and showed that Earl had a visionary view of automobile design. While intended only as a show car, it went into limited production and twenty were built between 1934 and 1937.

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
Not my characterization, but as a technicalit