TORONTO VS SYDNEY

[SUPREMO]

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/ca00478.jpg?x=x&dasite=GETTYIMAGES&ef=1&ev=1&dareq =4C2723345C0212434055444B5C534D

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/10192658.jpg?x=x&dasite=GETTYIMAGES&ef=1&ev=1&dare q=4C353A315C50434249534546484D414D

Now this is more worth comparing! Both are medium-size cities, have a space-needle like tower. One rules the north and the other, the south. Which skyline is better?

[alejo]

sidney

[WZ1]

sidney

You need to be able to spell before you can vote,


I vote for Toronto! Much larger city, bigger skyline, fuller, way nicer and taller buildings.

[TLOZ Link5]

Sydney quite possibly has the world's most beautiful urban setting. Nothing else compares.

[SUPREMO]

Seattle also has a beautiful setting. Anyway, if we're talking about skyscrapers and skylines in general, I voted for Toronto because they have taller buildings and that the CN tower is the tallest structure in the world which dominates the skyline! But Sydney on the other hand has more skyscrapers but not as tall as Toronto's.

City-wise, I think Sydney looks more attractive. The quality of life is better as well.

Here are some noticable skyscrapers in both cities.

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files_transfer/6/2003/06/195531.jpg
The Citicorp Center, currently the tallest office building in Sydney which is 797 ft tall.

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files_transfer/6/2002/11/172050.jpg
First Canadian Place, the tallest office building in Toronto and the whole of Canada. 978 ft tall.

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/TR000430.jpg?x=x&dasite=GETTYIMAGES&ef=1&ev=1&dare q=4C31373A224D27214051434743515F414E
The CN Tower dominating the Toronto skyline

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/ca25326.jpg?x=x&dasite=GETTYIMAGES&ef=1&ev=1&dareq =4C2723345C021241455241455C534D
The Sydney Tower over the Sydney skyline

http://delivery.gettyimages.com/comp/AA028369.jpg?x=x&dasite=GETTYIMAGES&ef=1&ev=1&dare q=4C31373A374D323240534B4046585F414E
Toronto at night

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files_transfer/6/2000/11/111474.jpg
Sydney at night

[JonY]

Gosh, this seems to be quite an age-old versus scenario.

I'm a Sydney-sider yet I love both skylines. Sydney has a variety of shapes on its talls and Toronto seems to have many conservative 'flat-tops' which are really classy.

Decisions, decisions......

Hmmmm, think I'll keep my vote Top Secret

[LF22]

I vote toronto. ALthough Toronto's skyline doesn't seem as big from the picture, it's because the gargantuan CN tower dwarfs all human structures on earth, with the exception of TV towers. Toronto's Canada one plaza is just a few feet shy of 1000 feet. Also Toronto has a massive 30 billion dollar waterfront reconstruction under way.

[DominicanoNYC]

This is one hard choice. I'll be back while I think about it.

[JonY]

2 pics of Toronto's beautiful skyline:

http://www.ensc.sfu.ca/coop/stories/Toronto.jpg

http://www.mackoo.com/canada/images/toronto_night.jpg

My all time favourite Torontonian scraper is Scotia Plaza, the 2nd tallest office building @ 902ft.
My nick-name for it is "The Flat-bed Scanner Building":

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/11/168718.jpg

SUPREMO,

The Citygroup Tower is not the tallest office building in Sydney.
The tallest office structure is Governor Phillip Tower @ 833ft:

__________http://skyscraperphotos.com/cit/dsy01/a/izsy119.jpg__________http://skyscraperphotos.com/cit/dsy03/a/izsy306.jpg

...and an aerial of G.PT. amongst some other Sydney talls in the north-eastern skyline:

________http://www.renzopiano.com/works/project52/09.jpg

....and some pics taken from Sydney Tower:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/509/379sydneytower2.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/509/379sydneytower1.jpg

http://www.urbanaustralia.org/photos/cp/119-1921F_IMG.JPG[/img]

[Chicagoan]

Toronto!!

The CN Tower eally distorts the perspective of the skyline of the city, but the towers of downtown are quite tall. Also, the collection of building, FCP, SP and CC form the tallest collection of towers closely together, and only such assemblage I recall, outside of Manhattan ( Cityspire, Carnegie Hall Tower, and Metropolitan Tower).

Syndey does have a more beautiful and varied natural setting, but that, for me, is not enough.

[emmeka]

As much as I love toronto, i had to go for Sydney because I ts more the kind of style of city that I like and Its a personal favorite of mine for certain reasons.

[NyC MaNiAc]

I visited Sydney last summer (August 2003)

I fell in love with the place. Great Buildings, Great Area. Amazing.

Toronto dulls in comparison.

My vote goes to Sydney, Hands Down.

[ablarc]

Toronto has a disappointing number of parking lots, which makes walking in many parts of the city a chore. I have not been to Sydney, but aerial photos show it to be free of parking lots.

Sydney.

[WZ1]

wait till toronto get the new trump building planned and approved!

[rocco]

I live in TO so I'll have to vote for Sydney...no wait, FRANKFURT!

[Pottebaum]

Toronto. The night shots are amazing.

[JonY]

Recent pics of Sydney City @ night:

http://www.boltdj.com/300d2.jpg

http://www.boltdj.com/300d1.jpg

http://www.boltdj.com/300d5.jpg

http://www.boltdj.com/300d6.jpg

http://www.boltdj.com/300d3.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

Spectacular Harbour Bridge. Beautiful city. Thanks.

[JMGarcia]

Wonderfuly shots. I'm second home sick. :(

Especially because its the start of summer rather than winter. ;)

[emmeka]

Oh, how I miss sydney....... :cry:

[ZippyTheChimp]

A nice Sydney panorama from John McKay (http://www.pbase.com/image/5496735) at pbase.

[Paul451]

Toronto has a better skyline

[emmeka]

actually, Sydney has a better skyline.

[globetrekker]

I say we call it a tie! They both have great skyline and building structures.

[Toonami]

Toronto has the nicer skyline, with the CN Tower and the cool looking Skydo- I MEAN ROGER'S CENTER being the centerpiece of the city. Of course, that area of town isn't the "true" part of Toronto.

[dirty-pete]

Toronto is a gross city. It is plagued by political corruption, disorganization, antiquated infrastructure, and general mismanagement.

The skyline is a complete joke, there is a few miles of disturbingly polluted "beach" which is absolutely disgusting. You would never swim in it, and nobody does. You can smell it before you see it, that's how bad it is. Of course there is a 60 year old highway separating the waterfront from the city, which "might" be torn down 30 years from now. None of this ever makes it into the skyline pics you see depicting the CN tower and surrounding buildings. The CN Tower which btw, is more TV antenna than "building".

Toronto is just like any other big city, only uglier, colder, and way less fun. Now that violent crime has equalled or exceeded other major cities, there really isn't much point in putting Toronto on a pedestal anymore.

[antinimby]

You are being sarcastic, right?

[TLOZ Link5]

Crime in Toronto is still lower than in most American cities; it has half New York's murder rate, even with the recent spike in crime. It's probably safer than Sydney, also. Plus it's clean.

The architecture, however, isn't exactly top-notch, I'll give you that.

[globetrekker]

Toronto

[Movie-fan]

Sydney, Sydney, Sydney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sydney is possibly one of the most beautiful cities on earth!!!

[Jake]

Here's some images of Toronto buildings that have either been constructed or will be approved/constructed shortly


http://www.globalphotos.org/toronto/20050326/RIMG0389.jpg


http://img115.echo.cx/img115/1484/cityplace5jx.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y111/Zoso_69/CityPlace.jpg

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/547/2507night_shot_lights.jpg

http://www.urbandb.com/canada/ontario/toronto/tiff_rendering.jpg

http://www.inclearimage.com/buildto/ritz1.jpg

http://backup.sevenl.net/%7Ecassius/CassiusAdams.SapphireTower.web.jpg


and the skyline in 2015, I agree the CN tower makes unreasonable demands of the height of the other buildings but hey they've even got a 55 Water lookalike down there

http://www.adamwillson.com/cassiusadams/Toronto2015/Cassius.Adams.com.Toronto.Skyline.2015.Full.jpg

[spyguy999]

I don't think Sapphire Tower is happening anymore. It is being redesigned and somewhat significantly downzoned.

[Citytect]

There are a lot of twinned towers and/or like-designed groupings of towers in the Toronto skyline. Makes it look a little monotonous.

[Alonzo-ny]

Sydney has more scrapers and it looks amazing at night, although i do like the cn for its height. What is the story with all the new proposed towers to the left in that photo

[MrSpice]

Sydney is way too far from New York. Who is going to spend 20 hours in the plane to appreciate it? So, Toronto wins hands down (for having the CN tower and being closer to NY).

[Movie-fan]

Well tell me why Sydney get's over 16 million visitors a year and Toronto is closest to New York and only get's 10 million a year???-Explain that:rolleyes: And I'm gonna say (now that Sydney is winning) Toronto's skyline is looking rather dull with all this similar buildings....which are dwarfed by this ugly [not even skyscraper] building-which is the CN TOWER

[jabman]

Toronto is still developing every year about 3 skyscrapers are being built and planned on being built.

Skyscrapers coming to Toronto.

-TRUMP Tower
-Ritz Carlton Hotel and Residence
-Maple Leafs Square

thats just 2006-07

I VOTE TORONTO

[OmegaNYC]

Toronto

[lesterp4]

I was in Sydney last year and it is simply stunning. The harbor, opera house and the skyline is very colorful at night. In addition, the weather is a hundred times better.

[HoboSapian]

With Q1 and Eureka Towers finished in Qld and Melbourne respectively, when is Sydney going to construct itself a behemoth to dominate its skyline. I like Sydney tower but its old hat and I really think they should be developing skyscrapers that go beyond the height of Sydney tower. (even if its just for the sake of saying "we got the tallest tower") :D

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Sydney's natural landscape is much nicer than TO's, but the city is a typical new-school ugly one filled with uninspired modern buildings. The opera house is a horror show. Yes, I said it.

That said, Toronto has torn down most of it's nice old buildings (at least, in the downtown core) to replace them with hideous skyscrapers. The Scotia Tower and a few other central edifices are a few rare exceptions in a very uninspired, ugly central skyline. To see Toronto's charm you really have to leave the core and travel to the 'real' neighborhoods, which are mostly low rise and never visible in those postcard skyline shots.

Really though, most of the buildings over five stories in Toronto are hideous. CN Tower included.

The new buildings slated for construction in Toronto are just as awful as many of the already existing ones. It makes me want to cry to think of how they will waste that huge stretch of land just north of the Gardiner with more towering glass condos.

All in all, there are only three tall buildings in the city of Toronto which could be compared to those in a city like NY or Chi: the King Eddie, 1 King W, and the building just west of 1 King W.

Both cities are ugly, but Toronto is uglier.

BL, BC

furthermore

[macreator]

Those new buildings to the left of the CN look atrociously artificial. It's like a city-in-a-can. They may add some bulk to the skyline but I don't think it's worth it -- they definitely don't impress me.

[The Beam Doc]

Why do people keep saing that sydney has "more skyscrapers" than Toronto? Toronto has OVER 1000 more highrises and skyscrapers than sydney does. Don't believe me? check www.emporis.com (http://www.emporis.com) and compare the two.

Whats all the big hype about Sydney anyway? A lot of people didn't even know where sydney was after the 2000 summer olympics. The skyline looks horrible, just a bunch of boxy type buildings with wierd designs on top of them. All the pics I have seen of the sydney skyline have been AT NIGHT. yeah sure any city's skyline no matter how big or small looks 100 times better what with the glowing lights and all. Ever seen a pic of sydney during the day? Yikes.

And this goes to that guy who said Sydney gets 16 million visitors a year as opposed to "Toronto's 10 million". As far as made up stats go, this one takes the cake. LAWL who are you trying to fool? First Canadian Place (look it up on emporis) gets 16 million visiters a year. Thats right just that building ALONE gets as many as the entire city of sydney. What does that tell you? And I highly doubt millions of people are going to spend 1000's to fly to some remote island for a city you can pretty much see elsewhere in europe, north America etc.

Every Australian I talk to always pushes this city as the greatest thing like no tommorrow. The city is nothing special.:confused:

[Movie-fan]

Sydney has always been recognizable and famous; didn’t you know the Sydney Opera House is a pop culture phenomenon? The 2000 Olympics are gone now and Sydney will remain one of the most recognizable cities on earth, it was also the setting of one of the highest grossing animated films ever, Finding Nemo….and has Toronto been the setting for any highest grossing movies…or any movies at all, to my recollection...NO!

And did you know that work on Finding Nemo was started in 1995, which is 5 years before the 2000 Olympics…and they still chose Sydney. Also, has Toronto even hosted the Olympics, don’t think so! What does that tell YOU!

Look, who the hell gives a crap about how many skyscrapers Toronto has, Sydney will win hands down! Skyscrapers hardly add anything to a city, does Paris need skyscrapers to be good in anyway, and NO…the same applies to Sydney. I visited the city about a month ago and there are VERY few places on earth that have any more beauty than the city, Toronto is not one of them!! Who wants to visit Toronto anyway? It’s basically a paper cut out off New York City and the climate is really terrible, the skyline is full of copy cat buildings and hardly any of them are that noticeable.

Sydney has a beautiful temperate climate, and you can enjoy the city when it’s hot by visiting its world renowned beautiful beaches. And, um hello Sydney Opera House, everyone knows where that is, which makes the skyline unique and recognizable, the CN Tower isn’t that rare or uncommon, there is something almost identical in Johannesburg, Seattle and various other cities. Sydney has one of the world’s most spectacular settings, harbors, skylines, culture, arts, climate and entertainment; I would spend about 30 hours on a plane to get there if I had to. Also, global city wise, Sydney will become higher, as San Francisco and Sydney are predicted to become Alpha global cities in the next 10-20 years, while Toronto will be stuck with the “BETA” status….I wonder why?

Get over the city skylines and which one is larger thing, and think about which one has more qualities and admiration!

Plus, if I ever wanted to go to Canada, I’d go to Vancouver, a city which at least has some class and beauty.

SYDNEY, SYDNEY, SYDNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, in this picture I’d just like to point out how ridiculous the skyline is, all of those buildings are the same, except smaller and then bigger for some, looks awful!

[Movie-fan]

Sydney is not an island retard, it is a sprawling city which earns the #3 most money from the tourism each year, and in this list in a book entitled "the big book of lists", Toronto didn't make that list, also the calculation for Sydney having 16 million visitors a year, well that was from 2002, and do you know how much that could of doubled or trippled since then??????:rolleyes:

Sydney has always been recognizable and famous; didn’t you know the Sydney Opera House is a pop culture phenomenon? The 2000 Olympics are gone now and Sydney will remain one of the most recognizable cities on earth, it was also the setting of one of the highest grossing animated films ever, Finding Nemo….and has Toronto been the setting for any highest grossing movies…or any movies at all, to my recollection...no!

And did you know that work on Finding Nemo began in 1995, which is 5 years before the 2000 Olympics…and they still chose Sydney as the setting. Also, has Toronto even hosted the Olympics, don’t think so! What does that tell YOU!

And about this skyscraper thing, who the hell gives a crap about how many skyscrapers Toronto has, Sydney will win hands down! Skyscrapers hardly add anything to a city, does Paris need skyscrapers to be good in anyway, and NO…the same applies to Sydney. I visited the city about a month ago and there are VERY few places on earth that have any more beauty than the city, Toronto is not one of them!! Who wants to visit Toronto anyway? It’s basically a paper cut out off New York City and the climate is really terrible, the skyline is full of copy cat buildings and hardly any of them are that noticeable.

Sydney has a beautiful temperate climate, and you can enjoy the city when it’s hot by visiting its world renowned beautiful beaches. And, um hello Sydney Opera House, everyone knows where that is, which makes the skyline unique and recognizable, the CN Tower isn’t that rare or uncommon, there is something almost identical in Johannesburg, Seattle and various other cities. Sydney has one of the world’s most spectacular settings, harbors, skylines, culture, arts, climate and entertainment; I would spend about 30 hours on a plane to get there if I had to. Also, global city wise (which ranks cities in order of importance), Sydney will become higher, as San Francisco and Sydney are predicted to become "Alpha" (the highest) global cities in the next 10-20 years, while Toronto will be stuck with the “BETA” status (the 3rd highest)….I wonder why?

Get over the city skylines and which one is larger thing, and think about which one has more qualities and admiration!

Plus, if I ever wanted to go to Canada, I’d go to Vancouver, a city which at least has some class and beauty.

SYDNEY, SYDNEY, SYDNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.zeta.org.au/~obbyonie/graphics/sydney1.jpg

http://www.4greatreasons.co.uk/images/sydney.jpg

http://www.travelphoto.net/photos/pictures/australia/i3.jpg
http://www.notsogreenthumb.org/travelogue/australia/Sydney/photos/Sydney-skyline.jpg
http://www.my.opera.com/silvian11/homes/albums/24865/thumbs/460025%20-%20Dusk,%20Sydney%20skyline.jpg_thumb.jpg
This is a view from my friends apartment:
http://www.rastahari.de/benji/Bilder/1604/night3skyline.jpg
http://www.hit.bme.hu/~pfliegel/sydney/mixed/night.jpg
http://zuchow1.webpark.pl/RysunkiM/Sydney.jpg
http://www.navis.gr/recreati/millecel/images/sydney.jpg
Also, in this picture in post by "Jake", I’d just like to point out how ridiculous the skyline is, all of those buildings are the same, except smaller and then bigger for some, looks awful!

[pianoman11686]

This thread has the makings of a trademark SSC piss-match. You both should tone down your posts before the moderators get word of this. There's absolutely no need for the type of language you're using.

[Alonzo-ny]

^^ definitely the most offensive racist post ive ever read

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Sydney is not an island retard, it is a sprawling city which earns the #3 most money from the tourism each year, and in this list in a book entitled "the big book of lists", Toronto didn't make that list, also the calculation for Sydney having 16 million visitors a year, well that was from 2002, and do you know how much that could of doubled or trippled since then??????:rolleyes:

Sydney has always been recognizable and famous; didn’t you know the Sydney Opera House is a pop culture phenomenon? The 2000 Olympics are gone now and Sydney will remain one of the most recognizable cities on earth, it was also the setting of one of the highest grossing animated films ever, Finding Nemo….and has Toronto been the setting for any highest grossing movies…or any movies at all, to my recollection...no!

And did you know that work on Finding Nemo began in 1995, which is 5 years before the 2000 Olympics…and they still chose Sydney as the setting. Also, has Toronto even hosted the Olympics, don’t think so! What does that tell YOU!

And about this skyscraper thing, who the hell gives a crap about how many skyscrapers Toronto has, Sydney will win hands down! Skyscrapers hardly add anything to a city, does Paris need skyscrapers to be good in anyway, and NO…the same applies to Sydney. I visited the city about a month ago and there are VERY few places on earth that have any more beauty than the city, Toronto is not one of them!! Who wants to visit Toronto anyway? It’s basically a paper cut out off New York City and the climate is really terrible, the skyline is full of copy cat buildings and hardly any of them are that noticeable.

Sydney has a beautiful temperate climate, and you can enjoy the city when it’s hot by visiting its world renowned beautiful beaches. And, um hello Sydney Opera House, everyone knows where that is, which makes the skyline unique and recognizable, the CN Tower isn’t that rare or uncommon, there is something almost identical in Johannesburg, Seattle and various other cities. Sydney has one of the world’s most spectacular settings, harbors, skylines, culture, arts, climate and entertainment; I would spend about 30 hours on a plane to get there if I had to. Also, global city wise (which ranks cities in order of importance), Sydney will become higher, as San Francisco and Sydney are predicted to become "Alpha" (the highest) global cities in the next 10-20 years, while Toronto will be stuck with the “BETA” status (the 3rd highest)….I wonder why?

Get over the city skylines and which one is larger thing, and think about which one has more qualities and admiration!

Plus, if I ever wanted to go to Canada, I’d go to Vancouver, a city which at least has some class and beauty.

SYDNEY, SYDNEY, SYDNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Hmmm....interesting post man.

I'm not Toronto's biggest fan (even though I live here), but your post is BS, and you obviously don't know much about Toronto at all. I'm glad that an animated movie that mostly took place underwater had some scenes in Sydney harbour, but even if Toronto doesn't feature prominently in many movies, it's the third biggest movie town in North America after LA and New York, and I can't even count the number of blockbuster feature films that have been filmed here in the last five years, including many Academy award winners. We also have one of the best film festivals in the world, often acclaimed as the second most important after Cannes.

I would also argue that Sydney is not one of the most recognizable cities on Earth - the opera house is one of the most recognizable buildings on earth, and without it most of the world would have no idea of what Sydney looked like.

I get that you like your city, but you don't really seem to know what you're talking about. Have you ever really been to Toronto to know so much about it? I've managed to visit many major cities all over the world, and I still think Toronto - though it has its flaws - can hold its own in a number of arenas. I'm not going to get involved in this silly pissing contest and say my city is better than yours, but it's obvious you don't know a damn thing if you think Vancouver is a better city than Toronto. That's one of the more laughable statements I've heard in a while. Certainly, the landscape and natural environment of Vancouver is far superior to Toronto's but the city itself can't be compared to Toronto as a center of culture, the arts, entertainment, business, etc., etc. Vancouver may be beautiful, but it will never be a major city. As for Toronto, the only thing holding it back is it's beauracracy and intransient civic officials. With the right money and vision, Toronto could be a major player on the world stage in a heartbeat. Unfortunately, all levels of government in Canada have stifled its potential, bled it of money and resources, and left it to fend for itself. If this were not the case, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

BL, BC

[pianoman11686]

I recently visited Vancouver, after having visited Toronto on a number of occasions in the past. And in my objective opinion, I think Vancouver is hands down a better city, for everything from surroundings to quality of life to cleanliness, to streetlife...basically everything. I was blown away at how close it came to perfection. And I think your assumption that it can never be a major city is very shortsighted indeed. I think it's only beginning a prolonged time of growth, and the Olympics in 2010 will doubtless help that process.

[lofter1]

Agreed ^^^ Vancouver has positioned itself to be one of the great cities for the 21st Century.

[Bright Lights, Big City]

My prediction that Vancouver will never be a major city is in response to movie-fan's assertion that Toronto will never be more than a BETA city. As the business and culutral center of Canada, as well as its largest, most vibrant city Toronto will never be second to Vancouver because Vancouver's geographical isolation from eastern Canada (where the majority of the population and political power is located) and it's relatively late start as a major urban center in Canada.

I also think it's hard for an occassional visitor to a city to make the comparisons the last two posters have made. Walking around and seeing the attractions doesn't really give one more than a superficial idea of what the city's all about. Having lived and travelled extensively in both cities, Vancouver has its charm but it's too West Coast and insular. If I were to say to a New Yorker that Seattle is a better town in almost every way, I might be right, but I'd be laughed at nonetheless. But this is a pretty apt comparison I think, and goes a long way to showing my rationale: Seattle has a more beautiful natural setting than New York, the quality of life is mich higher, the cost of living is more manageable, traffic and pollution are both much better in Seattle, crime is low, and yet it still has plenty of culture and street life. But would I ever say Seattle is a better city than New York? No, I wouldn't, because it's not, and to compare the two doesn't make a lot of sense to anyone who's familiar with both cities.

Same with Toronto and Vancouver - you might prefer one over the other, but Toronto is a better city just like New York is a better city than Seattle. Some might disagree and think Seattle is better, but most would agree that as the urban center of America, New York has more to offer, is much more cosmopolitan, is more diverse, has greater employment opportunities, more cultural events, and essentially more of everything that cities generall offer. This is precisely the same with Toronto vs. Vancouver. Vancouver may be a pretty town with a laid back atmosphere, but it doesn't compare to Toronto because it's about a third the size, is not the business and cultural centre of Canada, does not have nearly as many cultural institutions, lacks the major post-secondary institutions of Toronto (UBC may be a decent school, but York U and U of T are two of the biggest and best universities in the country and they're both located in Toronto), has very little night life or street life in most parts of the city (this is something that most Vancouverites who visit Toronto routinely observe), has far less integration and a less cosmopolitan and multicultural atmosphere than Toronto, lacks the numerous unique old neighborhoods of Toronto (since it's such a new city) and the bustling ethnic enclaves that make Toronto unique, and has no where near as many cultural events - Vancouver has no Caribana, no major film festival, does not have the largest gay pride parade in North America, or more than three annual festivals that routinely attract over a million visitors. I could go on and on and on with this list.

I'm not saying Vancouver is not a nice place to live, and I'm not saying some people can't or don't prefer Vancouver over Toronto. But for the same reasons I think New York is a better city than, say, Seattle, Toronto is a better city than Vancouver, Olympics notwithstanding. I mean, the Olympics don't make a city - they make a city bankrupt. Hell, Atlanta had the Olympics, but I wouldn't say Atlanta is one of the great American cities because of it. Atlanta is a tier-two city at best, along with Seattle. As far as Canada goes, Montreal and Toronto are nearly equals in most respects, but Vancouver despite its charms, is a ways behind these two and will continue to be for the forseeable future. Keep in mind that Toronto is expected to grow by half-a-million people in the next two decades. Soon it will be the same size as Chicago, while Vancouver will still be under 2 million.

BL, BC

[lofter1]

To clarify: I've never been to Toronto and only meant to agree that Vancouver seems to be doing many things right.

We're only 6 years into the 21st Century ... many geo-political / economic shifts will take place over the coming decades. Mother Earth might hold in her hands the now unknown fate of many West Coast cities -- but absent that, it seems that Western cities that play it smart will be very well positioned to rise in both influence and livability.

[Alonzo-ny]

I would also argue that Sydney is not one of the most recognizable cities on Earth - the opera house is one of the most recognizable buildings on earth, and without it most of the world would have no idea of what Sydney looked like.

BL, BC

an north american view. being someone who lives thousands of miles from both cities sydney is much more famous, i have never even considered toronto a famous city which i have always considered sydney, the CN tower isnt even that famous a landmark i doubt many people would know what you were talking about if you asked us europeans, where as the opera house everyone would know.

[OmegaNYC]

Sydney:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Sydney_Harbour_Bridge_night.jpg/800px-Sydney_Harbour_Bridge_night.jpg


Toronto:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Toronto_Skyline_Photo.jpg/250px-Toronto_Skyline_Photo.jpg

The Winner???

CHICAGO!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Chicago_Skyline_at_Sunset.png/700px-Chicago_Skyline_at_Sunset.png

I love playing spoiler! :D But to be honest, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people like Sydney. Some like Toronto. So guys, no more fighting or name calling? Please? :)

[Bright Lights, Big City]

an north american view. being someone who lives thousands of miles from both cities sydney is much more famous, i have never even considered toronto a famous city which i have always considered sydney, the CN tower isnt even that famous a landmark i doubt many people would know what you were talking about if you asked us europeans, where as the opera house everyone would know.

I don't know where I ever said that Toronto is more famous that Sydney, but the last line of your statement seems to support what I said: it's the opera house that's famous, not the city. I can't think of anything other than the opera house and funnel web spider that Sydney is famous for.

My view might be North American, but yours is totally European. Outside some parts of Western Europe (and I emphasize some, because Eastern Europe, Italy, and Greece would all have much more familiarity with Toronto because of the massive ex-pat populations from these countries living in Toronto) Toronto is much better known than Sydney because of its huge immigrant population. as one of the three most multicultural cities in the world, there are huge populations of Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Pakistani, Afghani, Turkish, Greece, Polish, Serbian, Croatian, Portuguese, Italian, Columbian, Mexican and Guatemalen, Argentinian, El Salvadoran and Chilean, Jamaican, Trinidadian, Guyanese, African (Ghanan, Nigerian, Somali, Ethiopian and Eritirean primarily), Filipino, etc., etc. Many of these ex-pat populations are the largest outside their home country. Others are the second largest after cities like London and New York - major cosmopolitan centres with much larger populations.

I would say that your viewpoint isn't even a European one - it's a United Kingdom one. Sydney has no where near the immigrant population of Toronto, which means that far more diverse regions have familiarity with Toronto because of family connections and the many residents who have moved there from these countries. We may not have an opera house, and I wouldn't say the CN Tower is a very famous structure (or doesn't deserve to be), but a city's fame is not based strictly on its edifices - or edifice, in the case of Sydney.

Now I'm done arguing about this crap.

BL, BC

[Alonzo-ny]

I don't know where I ever said that Toronto is more famous that Sydney, but the last line of your statement seems to support what I said: it's the opera house that's famous, not the city. I can't think of anything other than the opera house and funnel web spider that Sydney is famous for.

My view might be North American, but yours is totally European. Outside some parts of Western Europe (and I emphasize some, because Eastern Europe, Italy, and Greece would all have much more familiarity with Toronto because of the massive ex-pat populations from these countries living in Toronto) Toronto is much better known than Sydney because of its huge immigrant population. as one of the three most multicultural cities in the world, there are huge populations of Chinese, Vietnamese, Indian, Pakistani, Afghani, Turkish, Greece, Polish, Serbian, Croatian, Portuguese, Italian, Columbian, Mexican and Guatemalen, Argentinian, El Salvadoran and Chilean, Jamaican, Trinidadian, Guyanese, African (Ghanan, Nigerian, Somali, Ethiopian and Eritirean primarily), Filipino, etc., etc. Many of these ex-pat populations are the largest outside their home country. Others are the second largest after cities like London and New York - major cosmopolitan centres with much larger populations.

I would say that your viewpoint isn't even a European one - it's a United Kingdom one. Sydney has no where near the immigrant population of Toronto, which means that far more diverse regions have familiarity with Toronto because of family connections and the many residents who have moved there from these countries. We may not have an opera house, and I wouldn't say the CN Tower is a very famous structure (or doesn't deserve to be), but a city's fame is not based strictly on its edifices - or edifice, in the case of Sydney.

Now I'm done arguing about this crap.

BL, BC

the size of an immigrant population doesnt guarentee fame, i know sydney because of the opera house but also because it is regularly talked about being one of the best cities in the world to live, although ive never bothered to research why. the only reason i know toronto is my love of tall buildings upon which i discovered the cn tower and that is the only reason, also just because a movie is filmed somewhere doesnt mean people necessarily know where that place is

[Movie-fan]

I agree with you Alonzo ny, seriously I haven't known about Toronto for a while (I only found out about it in a book because it was the home of the CN Tower), it isn't particularly a city that everyone knows about. Whereas Sydney is, oh and "Bright Lights, Big City", it seems YOU don't know much about Sydney (but what can I say, you're a North American). You're saying that Toronto has some prestigious film studio, the third largest in NA, well Sydney has Fox Studios, which has produced well over 100 international and national big budget blockbusters including Moulin Rouge, Star Wars II, Star Wars III, Superman Returns, That Matrix and Mission Impossible II (which was also set in the city) to name a few, so stop going on about Toronto having some influential studio when Sydney has also undoubtedly produced major films.

Anyways, you where going on about the Opera House being the only thing that makes the city famous, well that is totally ridiculous, Sydney is known internationally and always has been regardless of the Opera House being in the city, just to name a few reasons why people easily know of the city when hearing the word “Sydney”: it was the setting for 2000 Olympic Games, it has a beautiful world renowned harbor, it is regular declared to be one of the most spectacular/livable cities on earth, it is the location of the Harbor Bridge, do any of those things have anything to do with the Opera House? Sure, the Opera House is world famous, however it doesn't represent Sydney internationally, it has only boasted its fame overseas, Sydney has also been well known with or with out the Opera House anybody knows that, GOD I can't believe where even arguing over this, it is so obvious that EVERYONE knows where Sydney is with or without its iconic structures, unless you've spent your whole life in a cave. I agree that now I’ve learnt more about Toronto, it seems to be a nice city, however it doesn’t come close to Sydney, I’ve herd that from so many people….it probably never will either, but who knows?

[Bright Lights, Big City]

I agree with you Alonzo ny, seriously I haven't known about Toronto for a while (I only found out about it in a book because it was the home of the CN Tower), it isn't particularly a city that everyone knows about. Whereas Sydney is, oh and "Bright Lights, BigCity", it seems YOU don't know much about Sydney (but what can I say, you're a North American). You're saying that Toronto has some prestigious film studio, the third largest in NA, well Sydney has Fox Studios, which has produced well over 100 international and national big budget blockbusters including Moulin Rouge, Star Wars II, Star Wars III, Superman Returns, That Matrix and Mission Impossible II (which was also set in the city) to name a few, so stop going on about Toronto having some influential studio when Sydney has also undoubtedly produced major films.

Anyways, you where going on about the Opera House being the only thing that makes the city famous, well that is totally ridiculous, Sydney is known internationally and always has been regardless of the Opera House being in the city, just to name a few reasons why people easily know of the city when hearing the word “Sydney”: it was the setting for 2000 Olympic Games, it has a beautiful world renowned harbor, it is regular declared to be one of the most spectacular/livable cities on earth, it is the location of the Harbor Bridge, do any of those things have anything to do with the Opera House? Sure, the Opera House is world famous, however it doesn't represent Sydney internationally, it has only boasted its fame overseas, Sydney has also been well known with or with out the Opera House anybody knows that, GOD I can't believe where even arguing over this, it is so obvious that EVERYONE knows where Sydney is with or without its iconic structures, unless you've spent your whole life in a cave. I agree that now I’ve learnt more about Toronto, it seems to be a nice city, however it doesn’t come close to Sydney, I’ve herd that from so many people….it probably never will either, but who knows?


Okay, okay... this is getting ridiculous.

Movie-fan: At no point did I ever say the Opera house was the only thing people know about Syndey (there's also the funnel web spider and the olympics, right?:p). I said it was the only thing that made Sydney a recognizable city to most people - visually, that is. If you took out the opera house from the skyline shot, I doubt most people would recognize the city without it. The same can probably said about the CN Tower in Toronto, and many other cities with well-known landmarks.

Second, I never at any point said Toronto was a better city than Sydney, or that Sydney was a better city than Toronto. I'm not foolish enough to think I can make that judgment without visiting Sydney, even if "so many people" tell me that one is better than the other. If I were to say Toronto was better than Sydney, I would be little more than a provincial ignoramis, passing judgment on a place I knew little about out of some arrogant belief that my city was better simply because I happened to live there. This would be even more apparent if I readily admitted I had only known about Sydney for "a while," and only found out about it when I recently came across it in a book. Even more ridiculous would be if I claimed that Sydney "isn't particularly a city that everyone knows about" when this statement clearly reflected my own experience rather than that of "everyone" I appeared to speaking on behalf of.

Indeed, the whole point of my posts in this thread was to provide some overlooked details about Toronto and correct some misperceptions, rather than come here to cheerlead for my hometown. My intention was never to claim that Toronto was superior to Sydney, but simply to respond to a few of the things movie-fan and others posted.

Movie-fan, I'm not going to respond to your silly comments about cave-dwelling, but I do want to point out that your stupid comment about me being a North American (as if that's some kind of insult) is one of the most bizarre things you've said so far. I don't know all that much about Sydney, but being a North American has little to do with it. You don't know that much about Toronto, but I don't expect you to - not because you're from a different hemisphere, but because not everyone knows everything about every city, even major ones. How about Bogota and Houston? How much do you know about these two major cities? Probably not very much...must be 'cause you're Australian (sounds stupid, doesn't it?)

Finally, you seem to be directing this bizarre comment about my North American ignorance at my statement about Sydney's film industry - or at least, that's how it appears. But just so you know, I decided to look up the figures and discovered that the production value of films and television programs shot in Toronto in 2005 was greater than the production value of all the films and tv programs shot on the entire continent of Australia in both 2004 and 2005 put together. That means the annual production value of films made in Toronto is more than double the annual value of all the films made in the whole continent of Australia.

Here's the figures:

$898.245 million dollars worth of film and television productions were shot in the city of Toronto during 2005. (http://www.toronto.ca/tfto/stats.htm)

$811 million dollars worth of film and television productions were shot in the continent of Australia during 2004 and 2005. (www.dfat.gov.au/facts/pdfs_2006/film_australia.pdf (http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/pdfs_2006/film_australia.pdf))


So please, remember I have not at any point said my city is better than yours or vice-versa. I'm just trying to provide some factual information. Can you say the same?

Okay, I think I've said enough now....Bye!

BL, BC

[Alonzo-ny]

Here's the figures:

$898.245 million dollars worth of film and television productions were shot in the city of Toronto during 2005. (http://www.toronto.ca/tfto/stats.htm)

$811 million dollars worth of film and television productions were shot in the continent of Australia during 2004 and 2005.

the original debate was regarding the cities recognisability worldwide which seems lost now under irrelevant facts and self correcting

[lofter1]

... the production value of films and television programs shot in Toronto in 2005 was greater than the production value of all the films and tv programs shot on the entire continent of Australia in both 2004 and 2005 put together.

Most likely that number for Toronto / Canada ^^^ will drop in 2006 and later as, over the past few years, the Directors Guild of America and the Screen Actors Guild (along with other film trade unions) have been successful in getting NYC and other areas of the US to come up with business-friendly packages -- mainly in an effort to minimize what is called in the industry "Runaway Production (http://dga.org/thedga/leg_rp.php3)" and bring US-financed productions back to the USA.

[cheesburger]

youd have to be kidding by saying Sydney is only famous for the opera house!!!

Sydney harbour bridge is the biggest and one of the most famous bridges in the world.

Bondi beach and manly are also very well known

im not saying everyone in the world knows these things but alot of people do

[cheesburger]

oh yeh..i also forgot to mention that Sydney's harbour is commonly refered to as the most beutiful natural harbour in the world and the new years celebrations are the 2nd biggest in the world with one of the best fireworks displays.

So think again before saying Sydney is only famous because of the opera house

[canguy23m]

Just to put things in perspective the tallest building in Sydney would be close to tied as the 6th tallest building in Toronto That means there are 5 other structures in Toronto taller than Sydney's tallest building but it doesn't seem that way in most pictures.
Toronto is really underrated it seems outside of North America because I'm sure many people even in the US know more about Toronto
The one thing that makes the Sydney skyline stand out over Toronto's in most photos are all those multi colored lights which is not going to affect the way I vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Toronto
The City of Toronto's gross domestic product (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product) (GDP) is US$225 billion and Metropolitan Toronto's GDP is US$305 billion. Compared to other global metropolises, the size of Metropolitan Toronto's economy is 7th in the world. That's about half the size of Austrlia's economy or one quarter the size of Canada's economy.
First nba game ever played in Toronto
Alliance Atlantis is headquartered in Toronto and it produces shows like CSI and the Outer Limits (I think it did the xfiles too) and distributes most of the major hits.
If Toronto covered the same area as Metro Chicago it would have over 7 million people. Sydney could triple its area and it probably wouldn't add more than 200 thousand people.
Syndey is home to just a couple famous celebrities (Nicole Kidman, Mel Gibson, Kylie Minogue) Toronto is home to hundreds, including Jim Carrey, Keannu Reeves, Avril Lavine, Shania Twain, Pam Anderson, Mike Myers, Howie Mandel, Catherine O'Hara, Mary Pickford, Alex Trebec, Peter Jennings, Dan Akroyd, Eugene Levy, Neve Campbell and many others
Many more movies were filmed in Toronto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_filmed_in_Toronto
like True Lies, Residence Evil, Cold Creek Manor, Blade, Home Alone 2, Dark Water, Ginger Snaps, Moonstruck, Mission Impossible 3, New York Minute, the Pacifier, Cinderella Man, Harold and Kumar white castle, My big fat Greek wedding, Police Academy, Resident evil, Trading Places, Welcome to Mooseport, and many others. That's the reason why the Toronto International Film Festival is the 3rd best in the world.
About 10 thousand people work in each of its 2 of tallest buildings (both at or around 1000+ feet tall)
Toronto is home to teams in the nba, mlb, and nhl
Despite having a very small harbour and bad weather it attracts more educated immigrants than most of the other major world cities.
Has the largest Italian community outside Italy
3rd/4th largest Jewish community in the world outside of Israel and the US http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/concepts/demography/demtables.html
One of it's skyscrapers the Royal Bank Plaza has a million dollars in Gold melted into its 14 thousand windows
At one time the CN Tower and First Canadian place were 2 of the 8 tallest buildings in the world both were built in the 1970's.
Toronto's buildings and skyscrapers are classy, Toronto doesn't sugar coat them with cheap multicolored lights like most Asian cities do. That's what makes the city so attractive to film producers. Its skyline looks American with a European touch.
The founder of basketall was from Toronto.
It's now the largest city in a country that is home to the mvp of the nba, mlb, and nhl.
In North American fox entertainment is known more for its biased news and Bill O'Reilly
The harbour, Bridge, and Opera house is nice but shouldn't make a big difference when it comes to the skyline. Toronto also has a much better skyscraper history.
I think if you replaced the CN Tower and Toronto's 3 tallest buildings with the Sydney tower and Sydney's 3 tallest buildings Toronto's skyline would look better just because the CN Tower and those other buildings in Toronto are so tall that they make the other skyscrapers (which are still tall Sydney wise) look very small in pictures. You have to go to Toronto to really see how beautiful and futuristic the city looks. Sydney's tallest skyscrapers are smaller, and most aren't older than 10 years old. Not to make Sydney's skyline look bad but I think the shapes of most of its buildings and all those lights are tacky.
And Toronto is less than a day drive away from major cities like NYC, Chicago, Philly and only 2 hours drive from Detroit.
I think Toronto is an olympics away from being in the same league as LA.
I'm also reading posts like Vancouver has a better skyline than Toronto. I think its votes from these kinds of people that are giving Sydney the edge. In Canada Calgary is much better than Vancouver skyline wise. I thought skyscrapers how they look how ordered they are, classy, how futuristic they look are things that are considered when skylines are compared not average sized bridges which gain recognition mainly because they're in a city that celebrates new years in a time zone with no other major city or because of the olympics.
Toronto is in a league closer to Chicago than it is with Sydney.
I just don't think a city whose tallest building is 244 m high should even be compared with cities like Toronto. Before 1992 there were only 2 buildings taller than 192m and the tower. Since then Sydney's population has only grown by about 13 % http://www.demographia.com/db-metro3newworld.htm Toronto grew by over 20 %
Buildings like Toronto's city hall or casa loma are not being given any recognition when they are just as unique as some of Sydney's major landmarks.
It seems like the stuff that people are saying gives Sydney the edge like beaches, pretty oprah house, and famous bridge are the same things that many other cities that aren't even being considered for their skylines, have. PEI has the longest bridge in the world and nice beaches too why not mention it ? In the end it's the height and look of the skyscrapers in the downtown core that's all that matters and Toronto owns Sydney there. A skyscraper covered with 14000 gold plated windows which is also head quarters of one of the world's largest banks, 3 structures next to each other each about 1000+ feet tall and for 2 of them there is no antennae or spire that overrates its height. A 65 thousand seat stadium with a fully retractable roof where the 2 time world champion Blue Jays play next to a state of the art facility where guys like Lebron and Kobe play the raptors. This is the kind of stuff that with Toronto's growing reputation will take the city to the next level.

[Alonzo-ny]

^ Seriously almost nothing you have have said really has any relevance, 1 olympics away from being in the same league as LA, what does that mean. Toronto has more mediocre celebrities big deal, things like GDP and population dont make a city BETTER. im pretty sure a big harbour and nice weather isnt what attracts immigrants its better opportunities. Sydney isnt Asian. Being closer to better cities like NY and Chicago doesnt make a difference, being close to detroit is not a good thing. and i hate to tell you that only torontos 5 tallest buildings are taller, after the 6th tallest sydneys building are bigger. It is perfectly logical to compare any two skylines of anywhere in the world because everyones definition of beauty is different

[canguy23m]

More mediocre celebrities ? How is any of those Canadian celebrities mediocre ? Sydney has like 3 in total, I just wanted to point that out after reading some of the posts. The Sydney people come here and post comments like Toronto isn't even famous for anything and people from Toronto don't respond so I just had to say something. How are people like Avril Lavine, Jim Carrey, Pam Anderson, Shania Twain, Mike Myers, Peter Jennings, Alex Trebec, even Kristen Krauk from Smallville mediocre ? There's just so many and that's probably what makes you think they're so mediocre but they're not. Less than 5 years ago the 3 top selling singers in the world were Allanis Morrisette, Celine Dion, and Shania Twain but people never really talked about where they're from. Toronto has accomplished a lot and its time it gets its recognition.
I know we're suppose to be comparing the skylines but there have been a lot of other posts talking about accomplishments and things that make the city famous and I just wanted to bring some of this stuff up.

[canguy23m]

^ Seriously almost nothing you have have said really has any relevance, 1 olympics away from being in the same league as LA, what does that mean. Toronto has more mediocre celebrities big deal, things like GDP and population dont make a city BETTER. im pretty sure a big harbour and nice weather isnt what attracts immigrants its better opportunities. Sydney isnt Asian. Being closer to better cities like NY and Chicago doesnt make a difference, being close to detroit is not a good thing. and i hate to tell you that only torontos 5 tallest buildings are taller, after the 6th tallest sydneys building are bigger. It is perfectly logical to compare any two skylines of anywhere in the world because everyones definition of beauty is different

Exactly but then why compare these cities ? I guess their skylines really do have nothing in common since it's not the number and height of the skyscrapers people choosing Sydney consider. Toronto has nothing else to offer but skyscrapers.
Here's another link that even compares the number of skyscrapers and gives a huge edge to Toronto over Sydney (with almost twice as many points)
http://www.emporis.com/en/bu/sk/st/sr/
Emporis which is probably the most reliable source for skyscraper information on the internet ranks ranks cities by the visual impact of their skylines.

[pianoman11686]

I'm also reading posts like Vancouver has a better skyline than Toronto. I think its votes from these kinds of people that are giving Sydney the edge.

I was one of the more vocal people who spoke about Vancouver. As someone who has been to both Toronto and Vancouver, I can say that Vancouver was unequivocably the more impressive city - in terms of skyline, natural surroundings, cleanliness, street life, recreation, etc. Toronto may be a larger city, but there was hardly anything about it that left a lasting impression; in other words, I don't think I'd ever consider moving there for a particular reason. Vancouver, on the other hand, was one of the nicest modern cities I've ever visited. That is only my opinion, although it is also shared by the members of my family who have visited both cities.

For the record, I have not voted in this thread (so you don't have to worry about Sydney getting an unfair "edge") because I don't think these kinds of polls prove anything except people's ability to be boosters for their favorite city or hometown. That being said, I think the recent posts prove that point. There's absolutely no need to be talking about what celebrities live in which city. Knock it off, please.

[canguy23m]

I was one of the more vocal people who spoke about Vancouver. As someone who has been to both Toronto and Vancouver, I can say that Vancouver was unequivocably the more impressive city - in terms of skyline, natural surroundings, cleanliness, street life, recreation, etc. Toronto may be a larger city, but there was hardly anything about it that left a lasting impression; in other words, I don't think I'd ever consider moving there for a particular reason. Vancouver, on the other hand, was one of the nicest modern cities I've ever visited. That is only my opinion, although it is also shared by the members of my family who have visited both cities.

For the record, I have not voted in this thread (so you don't have to worry about Sydney getting an unfair "edge") because I don't think these kinds of polls prove anything except people's ability to be boosters for their favorite city or hometown. That being said, I think the recent posts prove that point. There's absolutely no need to be talking about what celebrities live in which city. Knock it off, please.


I was mostly responding to the post that mentioned Sydney being an alpha city in 10-20 years and Toronto being 2 levels lower than that. It also said something about no major movies being filmed in Toronto. I answered that with facts.
About Toronto being a lower city than Sydney that must be a joke
In 1992 metro Toronto and metro Sydney had the same population
since then Sydney has had an olympics and in 2005 considering the same area Toronto had 1.5 million more people than Sydney. Also Toronto is in a G8 country, Sydney is not. Toronto is world famous for its film industry, great universities and having the most ethnically diverse population in the world. So the only difference left is the weather but Toronto's weather is no different than it is in cities like Paris, London and NYC.
And another thing the wealthiest man in Toronto is the 9th wealthiest in the world
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/10/Citizenship_2.html
The wealthiest person in Australia is the 114th weathiest in the world.

[Alonzo-ny]

Also Toronto is in a G8 country, Sydney is not.

Toronto isnt a country, the same as sydney isnt in asia.

Toronto is world famous for having the most ethnically diverse population in the world.

Im pretty sure everyone knows new york has that accolade. I know it has a large chinese population which i only know because of the SARS outbreak.

And another thing the wealthiest man in Toronto is the 9th wealthiest in the world. The wealthiest person in Australia is the 114th weathiest in the world.

another irrelevant fact

[Zanenyc]

Sydney takes your breath away. The pristine streets and beautiful harbor, and inspiring. Toronto is full of glass and steel, with a suburban, working class vibe. Why are we comparing these cities? Comming from a Toronto native here!

[Zanenyc]

Sydney takes your breath away. The pristine streets and beautiful harbor, are inspiring. Toronto is full of glass and steel, with a suburban, working class vibe. Why are we comparing these cities? Comming from a Toronto native here!

[antinimby]

I think I'll take Sydney over Toronto.

Now the question is: Sydney or Melbourne?

[pianoman11686]

From what I've heard, Melbourne is the more culturally refined city. And while both score really high on quality of life, I think Melbourne has a slight edge in most categories, except maybe weather.

[canguy23m]

From what I've heard, Melbourne is the more culturally refined city. And while both score really high on quality of life, I think Melbourne has a slight edge in most categories, except maybe weather.

You could say the same thing about Montreal, except Montreal is also the 2nd largest French speaking city in the world, and its location (an hour or so drive from Vermont) makes it much more accessible to Western cities.
And this is to alonzo,
an alpha city should be home to one of the wealthiest people in the world.
About the sars outbreak that you said about Toronto, not sure if you realize this but the closest major country to Australia is communist china, after that it's probably Russia. The closest major countries to Toronto are the US, Mexico and the countries of Western Europe. Not sure about you but I'd rather be as far away from China and Russia as possible and as close to the US as I can get with everything going on today.
I still haven't seen one website on skylines or skyscrapers that has Sydney ranked higher than Toronto. There just seems to be more of a bias towards Sydney in here for some reason. I think it's just because there's a lot of people here who like Sydney's weather or are from Australia or who prefer Sydney because people there have more in common with people in places like Scotland and England.
http://www.skyscraperpage.com/cities/
that page also points out how dominant Canada is as a whole when it comes to buildings and skyscrapers. Look through the other thread about ranking world skylines links there pretty much put Toronto in a whole other level higher than Sydney.

[Alonzo-ny]

And this is to alonzo,
an alpha city should be home to one of the wealthiest people in the world.
About the sars outbreak that you said about Toronto, not sure if you realize this but the closest major country to Australia is communist china, after that it's probably Russia. The closest major countries to Toronto are the US, Mexico and the countries of Western Europe. Not sure about you but I'd rather be as far away from China and Russia as possible and as close to the US as I can get with everything going on today.

This still doesnt make a better city, i would venture that there are many better cities than toronto and sydney IN russia and china nevermind other cities like tokyo for example which is extremely close. also toronto is not an alpha city like new york, london tokyo and the like. my comment about sars was refering to how id never really heard of toronto being well known for diversity until sars brought it to my attention that it had, i think, the largest chinese community outside china. Being 5 hours from new york, etc doesnt make a city better than one which is 10, 20 hours away.

I still haven't seen one website on skylines or skyscrapers that has Sydney ranked higher than Toronto. There just seems to be more of a bias towards Sydney in here for some reason. I think it's just because there's a lot of people here who like Sydney's weather or are from Australia or who prefer Sydney because people there have more in common with people in places like Scotland and England.

I have never really said that i like sydney more than toronto. It may seem i was attacking toronto but i was questioning the way toronto's case was being presented, more celebrities for example?

[atomik]

My vote is for Sydney.

I find the majority of architecture in Toronto and Sydney bland in similar ways. Both have their one iconic building, the CN Tower and the Opera House respectively, and then lots of boring glass boxes littered around the downtown core.

However, the Opera House works with the rest of the skyline in Sydney very nicely. Similar to the way the Guggenheim in New York works with the buildings that surround it. There was a great article in the New Yorker about a year ago about the Sydney Opera House - if anybody is interested they should check it out - about how the architect, Utzon, was run out of town during the construction and has never been back.

The CN tower is a monumental concrete pole that seems like the only reason it was built was to make Toronto seem important to the rest of the world. There are interesting areas in Toronto - Kensington Market, The Beaches etc but it never feels like a cohesive whole to me.

However the scale in Sydney is smaller and the layout feels more organic. The harbor and the beaches are great. It moves at a different pace and the quality of life seems better there.

I will chime in here also saying that Vancouver is a wonderful city.

[glennstewart]

So hard to compare, but you couldn't go wrong in either city.

Statistically both Australia and Canada are considered the best countries to live for quality of life. Sydney and Toronto are their respective largest cities.

Both have pros and cons.
Skyline-wise, Toronto has an edge over Sydney with larger buildings and the CN tower. Sydney mixes buildings with an amazing harbour, the Opera House (which is considered to be one of the 8 modern wonders of the world) and a Bridge. No one can argue the combination of harbour (and if you see it with you eyes, it's really blue - unlike many cities), house and bridge. Furthermore, the government has preserved much land on the harbour as National Parks to restrict growth, and bring a real natural feel to what is on the doorstep of the city.

Quality of Life isn't ever a problem. Canada and Australia are unique in that nearly all of the major Australian and Canadian cities are ranked very highly. Only San Francisco can come close to living standards of the two (and this is according to an American survey like Mercer).

But let's leave the final say to the tourists...

Two of the main tourism magazine Conde Nast and Travel+Leisure have reader polls every year. While the English and US versions of both magazines differ in opinion, typically they rate Sydney very high.

The US version of Travel+Leisure for example has rated Sydney the city of choice for travel in 9 of the past 12 years. Sydney is also the only city to consistently come in the top 5 of all surveys (more often in top 3). Toronto rarely rates.

From New York Travel though, interesting to see they chose four non US cities for which to recommend travel to.... Where is Toronto?
http://nymag.com/travel/spring/2006/16576/index.html
Quote: [Sydneysiders's have] gone back to wining, dining, beaching, and generally enjoying a quality of life—hyperbole alert—unmatched in the world.

Bottom line for me is that I could probably live in either. I'm more a fan of water and good weather though. Sydney never gets too hot, or too cold.

Av temps (F) are:

Summer
Sydney 79-65 :D
Toronto 79 60 :D
Fall
Sydney 73-57 :D
Toronto 57-42 :p
Winter
Sydney 62-44 :D
Toronto 30-17 :eek:
Spring
Sydney 72-55 :D
Toronto 51-35 :p

When you can enjoy the skyline and harbour on any day of the year, and in winter you just want to head underground in Toronto.... then which do you choose?

[chrisboy47]

This is a hard question..... not! I vote for Sydney.

oh whoopdeedoo you have shania twain and avril lavine living in your cities.
When were they big? Like 3-5 years+ ago.

Why did you people even bring up celebrities? Like 99% of people don't care.

I prefer Sydney because of the incredible Skyline and Habour. The vibe of the city is great, so many festivities. And the Beaches are amazing, but you can find better all over the country.

By the way all you so-called immigration experts, 40% of Australias population (currently) is born overseas. There is no rulling race in Sydney I say.
Most of sydney's parking is underground! Which is so much better than above ground parking, that means more buildings! I say Sydney has better Density in Buildings than Toronto.

Also who cares where the wealthiest man lives! Nothing to do for the benefit of the city.

This is from another thread posted by some guy( I agree):

All I say is Toronto has shitty weather, Sydney has great weather
Toronto: Bleak boring apartment buildings
Sydney: Colourful summery goodness.
Toronto: Other than buildings, um... parks.
Sydney: Parks, and Beaches.

When people thnk of sydney they think: Beaches, fashion (maybe melbourne), warmness, exciting cosmopolitan city.

When people think of Toronto: Coldnesss, grey concrete,degrassi high, cardigans and syrup.

Sydney isn't as large as Toronto, but the average person you ask wouldn't know which one is larger either. Because Toronto is in the Northern Hemishphere, if people from other countries want to visit a large city they would probably decide New York or Chicago over Toronto.

Because Sydney is in the southern hemisphere more people know about it because It is one of the largest cities in that corner of the globe (even though the earth is sphere)

Moral of the story is Sydney is better in lifestyle and better known throughout the world (because of finding nemo) The End (for now)

[Jake]

Toronto has hockey, Sydney doesn't have hockey, hockey is humanity's greatest achievement, case closed. :D

[glennstewart]

Sydney has hockey fields just as it has probably the highest density of 50m swimming pools.

Sydney also has ice hockey, but but Sydneysiders are not terribly good at it ;)

[jess19]

This is a hard question..... not! I vote for Sydney.

oh whoopdeedoo you have shania twain and avril lavine living in your cities.
When were they big? Like 3-5 years+ ago.

Why did you people even bring up celebrities? Like 99% of people don't care.

I prefer Sydney because of the incredible Skyline and Habour. The vibe of the city is great, so many festivities. And the Beaches are amazing, but you can find better all over the country.

By the way all you so-called immigration experts, 40% of Australias population (currently) is born overseas. There is no rulling race in Sydney I say.
Most of sydney's parking is underground! Which is so much better than above ground parking, that means more buildings! I say Sydney has better Density in Buildings than Toronto.

Also who cares where the wealthiest man lives! Nothing to do for the benefit of the city.

This is from another thread posted by some guy( I agree):

All I say is Toronto has shitty weather, Sydney has great weather
Toronto: Bleak boring apartment buildings
Sydney: Colourful summery goodness.
Toronto: Other than buildings, um... parks.
Sydney: Parks, and Beaches.

When people thnk of sydney they think: Beaches, fashion (maybe melbourne), warmness, exciting cosmopolitan city.

When people think of Toronto: Coldnesss, grey concrete,degrassi high, cardigans and syrup.

Sydney isn't as large as Toronto, but the average person you ask wouldn't know which one is larger either. Because Toronto is in the Northern Hemishphere, if people from other countries want to visit a large city they would probably decide New York or Chicago over Toronto.

Because Sydney is in the southern hemisphere more people know about it because It is one of the largest cities in that corner of the globe (even though the earth is sphere)

Moral of the story is Sydney is better in lifestyle and better known throughout the world (because of finding nemo) The End (for now)








In regards to that retarded post chrisboy posted:


Wow, you truly are one arrogant and feeble-minded person. I know it's "okay" to defend your only city actually worth recognizing, but come on! If you actually took the time to expose legitimate facts about Toronto, maybe your arguement would have some validity to it, instead of excluding them. For instance, you base your arguement on how "beautiful the skyline and harbour are." Your skyline is not even worth competing. You only have like 3 buildings over 200m tall, compared to 6 in Toronto. Toronto also has 6 more buildings in construction that will be over 200 m tall, with one topping 1,100 feet (Trump Tower). Syndey has none, oh actually wait the "John Boyd Tower" at 188m, equivalent to the 8th tallest building in Toronto. Your tallest buliding looks like our condominiums on the outer rim of the GTA.

And I also found is amusing how you found your underground parking lots as a bonus. Are you trying to say you have more than Toronto? Oh right, it'll allow "for more buildings to be built," which is sort of contradictory considering the GTA has 2,048 high rise buildings (second after NYC) and Sydney only has 382. And did I mention Toronto has a 27km long network of pedestrian tunnels connecting all of the downtown and financial district and that it has the third largest subway system in North America (after NYC and Mexico City)?

And just to go along with the other post you collected basing his/her accusation on how other people would go to "NYC or Chicago because they are larger cities" -- I'm not saying Toronto is bigger, but to put a fact into perspective, Toronto has a metro population of over 6 million and Chicago just slightly under 8 million. And another, Toronto is the fastest growing metropolitian in North America and the 5th biggest (after Mexico City, NYC, Chicago, and LA). What does Sydney have? A couple of cities scattered around in a big, desolate, and useless desert.

And finally, if your going to argue, please spare us of how famous you are because of Finding Nemo. Because 99% of people DO NOT CARE (remember your little rant about how 99% people do not care about Canadian celebrities? so there you go)!! It's really sad when you keep mentioning that because Canada, most specifically Vancouver is the second "Hollywood" of North America.

[Musketeer]

What a bizarre thread. Movies, celebrities, immigrants, climate..... Not really relevant to a discussion about the city skylines of Sydney and Toronto.

As a Sydneysider who just returned after a few years living in various parts of the world, I can tell you 2 things about this place:

1) The skyline of Sydney from a distance really does look amazing on its harbour setting. I never really thought too much about it growing up here, but it blew me away when I saw it again after not having been here for 3 yrs. It would be hard to beat this skyline from a distance.

2) Close-up when you are standing in the centre of it, Sydney just does not cut it architecturally. There are a few exceptions, but mostly the buildings are fairly bland compared to the great architectural cities. Dozens of cities would beat Sydney architecturally. As far as skyscrapers and city architecture go I love Chicago.

So it depends what you are talking about.

As for Toronto, I haven't visited it yet (although I do hope to in 2007), so I can't say much about it, but as far as recognisability goes, I'd say Sydney is the front runner on that one.


http://www.citybrandsindex.com/press-20070125uk.asp

[jess19]

I do agree with you Sydney does have a reputable skyline and the location for it is unmatched. However, being from Toronto, I am a strong defender of my city, and I HATE when people come on here and continuously bash a city in which they know nothing about. Maybe if they exposed some legitimate facts there arguement would be true to some extent. With that being said, I think Toronto's skyline has the "edge" over Sydney's, with height and all. However, I think Sydney has a bigger reputation throughout the world and is more well know to the average person, even though Toronto has a much larger population of about 6.5 million.

[ryeler]

I agree with what he says ^.

I also just heard a rumor that there were talks about C.N. tower being taken down. Probably just a rumor, but it has some sense to it. It was never intended to remain more than 75 years ish when they were planning it. I think taking it down would be a good thing. Toronto needs a new main feature. Plus, the tower really takes away from T.O.s' skyscrapers hieghts. Looking at a picture a few pages back in the thread, it made all of the other skyscrapers look tiny. Anyone know anything about the rumor?

Yet another also, I think that most of the pictures of sydney here play up the sydney harbour bridge too much. Imagine the city without the bridge, and what do you have? A mediocor skyline. But, I'm sure I'm biased somewhere in here. People could say the same about Toronto. Take away the C.N. Tower, or the beautiful island infront of it, I think we still actually have a good skyline.

[jess19]

I agree also with the above post. Toronto shouldn't even be compared to Sydney, but rather Melbourne. Sydney has a mediocre skyline in comparision to Toronto. The only structure worth recognizing, in my opinion, is the Opera House. The Harbour Bridge is also a great achievement, however it is still mediocre when you compare it to per se the Golden Gate and Confederation Bridge. The CN tower in Toronto is one of the seven wonders of the modern world, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers, and this gives Toronto's skyline a great advantage over Sydney's. However, when you take an aesthetic approach, I think Sydney would have the "upper-hand" due to the harbour and all. Therefore, weighing the circumstances, Toronto does have the better skyline.

Two cities worth comparing, should be Toronto and Melbourne...

[ryeler]

Ahh I don't even know about that. Maybe Vancouver and Melbourne, those would be the most similar. In that battle it would be Melbourne anyway

[Ed007Toronto]

I also just heard a rumor that there were talks about C.N. tower being taken down.

What kind of drugs are you on? Its going to be around for a long long time.

[OmegaNYC]

I However, I think Sydney has a bigger reputation throughout the world and is more well know to the average person, even though Toronto has a much larger population of about 6.5 million.

Sorry, but Toronto's population is around 2.4 million to Sydney's 4.2 million. Besides, you guys are still going at this?? ;)

[Ed007Toronto]

Toronto proper is 2.6 million. Include the suburbs and you're around 6 million to Sydney's 4.2 million (which is city proper and suburbs).

[ryeler]

What kind of drugs are you on? Its going to be around for a long long time.

Very quick you were to read what you wanted to read from the sentance, and not the entire sentance. Rumor. And I actually take some offense from your comment.

[torontoboy]

it's stupid to be comparing these to great cities, iam only 18 and i seem more mature then some ppl here. but i do have an opion n i will express it.
frist of they are both great cities, i live in toronto my whole life but i travelled to sydney when i was 16 for vacation, i absolutlly loved it. but to be fare, if we are disscussing cities, toronto wins HANDS DOWNS. toronto has way more buildings and nice unique diversed neibourhoods that u wont find anywhere in this eath. second if u ever been to the metro toronto u would understans how much grander toronto is than sydney. toronto has many skylines within the city, for example north york is pretty impressive from being so far away from downtown, and it can be considered its own skyline, same thing goes with MISSISAUGA, witch has almost the same number of high rise than MELBOURN, and its in the greater toronto area. metro toronto is MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMMPRESSIVE THAN SYDNEY's. we also have scarbrough town centre area that is building up nicely, same with york region just north of toronto. the one thing that sydney has HANDS DOWN is its WEATHER. but toronto is heating up because of global warming. we will be a snow less city soon, pluse we dont get that much snow anyways. the last thing that most sydney residents might not like is that global warming is happening, and that the ice will melt up north. toronto is nicely located in central eastern canada at 500+ metres well above sea level if not MORE, and a HUGE FRESH WATER LAKE in our door step that can be controled in means of redirecting the water if needed. We are pretty much SAFE from drught, hurricans, earthquaks, tidal waves and RISING SEA LEVELS:D , somthing that sydney is not :p . sydney will vanish within the centrey:eek: , along with most major world cities. but sydney will mostlly be affected by it. toronto will remain. at that time the only city that will be WORTH comparing toronto with will be BEAUTIFUL CHICAGO. the great lakes will RULE..:D (new york, london, paris, hong kong, will be GONE.) srry but if u look at the facts it will happend, i would off looked for it myself but iam to lazy right now...LOL:p ) i would like to read ur replyes........hey dont worry sydney ppl canada is a immagrant country, u guys can move here when that happends, anyone n everyone is ALLWAYS WELCOMED HERE... PLUSE WE HAVE A HUGEEE COUNTRY...LOL

[torontoboy]

it's stupid to be comparing these to great cities, iam only 18 and i seem more mature then some ppl here. but i do have an opion n i will express it.
frist of they are both great cities, i live in toronto my whole life but i travelled to sydney when i was 16 for vacation, i absolutlly loved it. but to be fare, if we are disscussing cities, toronto wins HANDS DOWNS. toronto has way more buildings and nice unique diversed neibourhoods that u wont find anywhere in this eath. second if u ever been to the metro toronto u would understans how much grander toronto is than sydney. toronto has many skylines within the city, for example north york is pretty impressive from being so far away from downtown, and it can be considered its own skyline, same thing goes with MISSISAUGA, witch has almost the same number of high rise than MELBOURN, and its in the greater toronto area. metro toronto is MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMMPRESSIVE THAN SYDNEY's. we also have scarbrough town centre area that is building up nicely, same with york region just north of toronto. the one thing that sydney has HANDS DOWN is its WEATHER. but toronto is heating up because of global warming. we will be a snow less city soon, pluse we dont get that much snow anyways. the last thing that most sydney residents might not like is that global warming is happening, and that the ice will melt up north. toronto is nicely located in central eastern canada at 500+ metres well above sea level if not MORE, and a HUGE FRESH WATER LAKE in our door step that can be controled in means of redirecting the water if needed. We are pretty much SAFE from drught, hurricans, earthquaks, tidal waves and RISING SEA LEVELS:D , somthing that sydney is not :p . sydney will vanish within the centrey:eek: , along with most major world cities. but sydney will mostlly be affected by it. toronto will remain. at that time the only city that will be WORTH comparing toronto with will be BEAUTIFUL CHICAGO. the great lakes will RULE..:D (new york, london, paris, hong kong, will be GONE.) srry but if u look at the facts it will happend, i would off looked for it myself but iam to lazy right now...LOL:p ) i would like to read ur replyes........hey dont worry sydney ppl canada is a immagrant country, u guys can move here when that happends, anyone n everyone is ALLWAYS WELCOMED HERE... PLUSE WE HAVE A HUGEEE COUNTRY...LOL

[ryeler]

mature? Your spelling surely shows that. jk lol

[s.t.o.b.]

According to an article I read in Harper's a few years ago, Toronto is the most diverse city in North America. Not the world, just North America.

[torontoboy]

NO toronto is the most multicultural city in the world according to the united nations. plus i live here i can really see it. the differnece between canada and the states is that the states is to obsessed with patriotism,, and the citizens must be (in a way brain washed) patriots or else they would not be considered true americans. canada in the other hand dosent have that sense of patriotism, ours is more natural in nature, and one trully ends up loving our country. the canadian government also helps funds different cultural centres that help others discover, and understand thier past culture. this is why canada is trully unique to other countries. if u dont impose an image that you have to be a certain way it creates an opportunity to trully express yourself, and understand others. in a way, its a way to understand our past and look forward to the future. i myself i'm of first generation canadian, my moms an immigrant from germany and my dads an immigrant from spain. i know how to speak spanish, n french and i understand german. in elementry skool i took spanish and french classes, and i have a good understanding of both. so by nature i'm pretty multicultural. i loved my country for giving me the opportunity to learn these languages, and cultures. and i 'm looking forward now, when i was little i even went to a dutch speaking church, and sometimes i went to a spanish one. dont get me wrong but i love the states i have many family members their, and i trully thank the states for being our neighbor. i'm just pointing out the differences.

[antinimby]

According to an article I read in Harper's a few years ago, Toronto is the most diverse city in North America. Not the world, just North America.Even more diverse than New York? http://images.skyscraperpage.com/images/smilies/sly.gif

[jess19]

it's stupid to be comparing these to great cities, iam only 18 and i seem more mature then some ppl here. but i do have an opion n i will express it.
frist of they are both great cities, i live in toronto my whole life but i travelled to sydney when i was 16 for vacation, i absolutlly loved it. but to be fare, if we are disscussing cities, toronto wins HANDS DOWNS. toronto has way more buildings and nice unique diversed neibourhoods that u wont find anywhere in this eath. second if u ever been to the metro toronto u would understans how much grander toronto is than sydney. toronto has many skylines within the city, for example north york is pretty impressive from being so far away from downtown, and it can be considered its own skyline, same thing goes with MISSISAUGA, witch has almost the same number of high rise than MELBOURN, and its in the greater toronto area. metro toronto is MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE IMMPRESSIVE THAN SYDNEY's. we also have scarbrough town centre area that is building up nicely, same with york region just north of toronto. the one thing that sydney has HANDS DOWN is its WEATHER. but toronto is heating up because of global warming. we will be a snow less city soon, pluse we dont get that much snow anyways. the last thing that most sydney residents might not like is that global warming is happening, and that the ice will melt up north. toronto is nicely located in central eastern canada at 500+ metres well above sea level if not MORE, and a HUGE FRESH WATER LAKE in our door step that can be controled in means of redirecting the water if needed. We are pretty much SAFE from drught, hurricans, earthquaks, tidal waves and RISING SEA LEVELS:D , somthing that sydney is not :p . sydney will vanish within the centrey:eek: , along with most major world cities. but sydney will mostlly be affected by it. toronto will remain. at that time the only city that will be WORTH comparing toronto with will be BEAUTIFUL CHICAGO. the great lakes will RULE..:D (new york, london, paris, hong kong, will be GONE.) srry but if u look at the facts it will happend, i would off looked for it myself but iam to lazy right now...LOL:p ) i would like to read ur replyes........hey dont worry sydney ppl canada is a immagrant country, u guys can move here when that happends, anyone n everyone is ALLWAYS WELCOMED HERE... PLUSE WE HAVE A HUGEEE COUNTRY...LOL




I would really like to know where you get these facts?? Because your understanding of global warming is very limited, along with your points in the previous posts.

[ryeler]

i agree with what jess19 is saying. although i am very aware of global warming, it's not like the cities will flood overnight. venice is constructing dams to help it from sinking and being flooded, which will be useful for the next 100 years and can withstand rising sea levels. It's not like one of the world's most powerful nation will just sit back and watch as L.A. and New york are flooded. I also think a lot of you statements are bias, and that some of them may be offense to anyone living withen the United States.

[lesterp4]

I don't see how Toronto could be more diverse than NYC. What is this based on? Surely, NYC must have the most diverse population of any of the world's great cities (I would not put Toronto in that category.

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
You got me curious.

After Googling the topic with several different word combinations, the only common statement I could find is along the lines"

"Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world."

I did find this statement:
Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. There is an urban legend among Torontonians that UNESCO has proclaimed the city as the world's most multicultural city, but ranking or proclaiming cities as the most multicultural is not a practice that UNESCO has ever undertaken.

[Ed007Toronto]

Something like this is pretty hard to define. People claim this because of the following statement.

Toronto often bills itself as the world's most multicultural city. 43% of Toronto's population reported themselves as being part of a visible minority, and 41% of the population was born outside of Canada.

[pianoman11686]

This topic came up in another thread, which I will try to locate. The gist of it was that although New York, and especially Queens, is aggregately much more diverse, Toronto technically has a higher number of ethnic neighborhoods with minorities residing within. So, it's a matter of relative significance: is having more people from diverse backgrounds more impressive, or is having a proliferation of different ethnic neighborhoods (albeit much smaller ones)?

[pianoman11686]

I don't think this is the exact thread I had in mind, but it's talking about the same idea. Alas, it's a TLOZ post:

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46936&postcount=2

[torontoboy]

venice is an old city, very old. 550 AD is the myth. most of the flooding that venice experienced is well before the automoblie and industrual era that PRODUCED MOST OF THE CO2 in the ATMOSPHERE. around the atomoblie era 1909-1929 most of the population didnt have a car. the industrial era was around 1800s but not nearlly as it is today in amounts to co2 producing. the automobile era with a higher amount of the population owning a car (developed countries) is only around 65 years old. so thats only around 65 years of intensty pumping co2 into the atomosphere from cars, not to mention this materialist era (capitalism) that produces tons and tons of co2 into the air by producing/transporting products like the car and cocacola. LOL
then you have increase numbers of ppl from the developing countries that can finaly afford a car and other products, and these countries have billions of people (China, India, Brasil) way more ppl than develop countries. then you have increased population, developing, constructing, heating HOUSES witch destroies the natural AIR CLEANERS and pumps more co2 into the air. and a personal WORST the destruction of forests from clear cutting (CANADA, BRASIL) witch decreases the natural air cleaners.

Over all, we will do twice the damage in the next 50 years than we did in the last 100. personaly i think it will be way worst, but it's just an educated guess.

with more cars on the road, more demand for products, WAY WAY more people with access to the cars and products, growthing population, growing world economys, more industries making more co2 by producing and transportion materials and products, SRINKING our NATURAL CLEANERS by cutting down forests, and that even 1 DEGREE can make a HUGE diffenece to climate change, and the ice capes. i dont think that wat i posted eariler is unlikely, its acually very likely.

if some americans take these comments offensive then thats ur problem cuz all iam doing is extressing my opinion.

in my opinion i think america imposed an image into their citizens, knowing that they can profit of making CAR-ORIENTED cities with horrible sprawl. if every citzen has to drive to get to work, school, food, ect ect, then the oil and car industries will PROFIT extremly well of that. iam a canadian but we have a LOT of american tv shows here and i notice alot of stuff. for example in most american tv shows or family type show they betray the cities to be a place where thier is a lot of crime, smog, dirt, rude people, shooting, drugs, and gansters, basicly problems. so ppl start to believe that the city is a horriable place to live let alone raise a family. if u look at many usa cities, people left the cities to live in the suburbs, for example DETROIT, buffolo, cleveland, phillly rochester , and parts of atlanta. and these are cities that i had visited or read up on.

with the exception of NEW YORK, most tv shows based on a american city have the family living outside the city, its like the perferct american family lives in a suburb. for example, everyone loves raven, simpsons, married with chirldren, family guy, american dad, full house LOL.....and many more. and when the characters visit the cities they are looked at like a place with problems. i remeber watching the simpsons and in some episodes when they go downtown, they pass by some area that is full of bums, crack addicts, homeless, drugs, and very dirty. even in movies, for example the movie DERAILED, the main guys wife quoits ( I HATE THE CITY, WHY DO U HAVE TO WORK THEIR) something like that...... i have notice that its getting better but the hate toward the city is still there but now they focus more on reality shows. all iam saying is my opinion so PLEASE ppl dont get mad and start insulting me or something cuz all it's only an OPINION.

...........................

i agree with what jess19 is saying. although i am very aware of global warming, it's not like the cities will flood overnight. venice is constructing dams to help it from sinking and being flooded, which will be useful for the next 100 years and can withstand rising sea levels.

Venice's $3 billion project to build 79 enormous hinged gates to separate Venice and its lagoon from the Adriatic Sea. But the project has drawn criticism from environmentalists and a few prominent scientists who warn it will turn into a financial and environmental disaster.
and no where it says that it will last 100 YEARS, unless u can refer me to a proper site? but regardest it says that the SEA IS RISING....


It's not like one of the world's most powerful nation will just sit back and watch as L.A. and New york are flooded. I also think a lot of you statements are bias, and that some of them may be offense to anyone living withen the United States.

You speak as if the UNITED STATES is GOD himself, the most powerful country on earth cant do anything about it, if mother nature wants more cost line then mother nature will take it, americans will have to adapt NOT NATURE. that ingorance, and close minded is wat will hurt you at the end. in the stage of humanity as it is today we will never win agaisnt an aggressive war with nature. usa and no other country would, but we dont have to fight, we would adapt or eles we would waste so much time and energy on a war that we will end up lossing. i hate reffering to this situation but its my best example, (srry if u have open wounds) LOOK at NEW ORLEANS, thats one of the first of many battles to come. the most powerful country in the earth lost that battle and lost it hard.......adapt is KEY....not fight......

the world's most powerful nation and all nations will have to sit back and watch nature win..........srry......

[jess19]

venice is an old city, very old. 550 AD is the myth. most of the flooding that venice experienced is well before the automoblie and industrual era that PRODUCED MOST OF THE CO2 in the ATMOSPHERE. around the atomoblie era 1909-1929 most of the population didnt have a car. the industrial era was around 1800s but not nearlly as it is today in amounts to co2 producing. the automobile era with a higher amount of the population owning a car (developed countries) is only around 65 years old. so thats only around 65 years of intensty pumping co2 into the atomosphere from cars, not to mention this materialist era (capitalism) that produces tons and tons of co2 into the air by producing/transporting products like the car and cocacola. LOL
then you have increase numbers of ppl from the developing countries that can finaly afford a car and other products, and these countries have billions of people (China, India, Brasil) way more ppl than develop countries. then you have increased population, developing, constructing, heating HOUSES witch destroies the natural AIR CLEANERS and pumps more co2 into the air. and a personal WORST the destruction of forests from clear cutting (CANADA, BRASIL) witch decreases the natural air cleaners.

Over all, we will do twice the damage in the next 50 years than we did in the last 100. personaly i think it will be way worst, but it's just an educated guess.

with more cars on the road, more demand for products, WAY WAY more people with access to the cars and products, growthing population, growing world economys, more industries making more co2 by producing and transportion materials and products, SRINKING our NATURAL CLEANERS by cutting down forests, and that even 1 DEGREE can make a HUGE diffenece to climate change, and the ice capes. i dont think that wat i posted eariler is unlikely, its acually very likely.

if some americans take these comments offensive then thats ur problem cuz all iam doing is extressing my opinion.

in my opinion i think america imposed an image into their citizens, knowing that they can profit of making CAR-ORIENTED cities with horrible sprawl. if every citzen has to drive to get to work, school, food, ect ect, then the oil and car industries will PROFIT extremly well of that. iam a canadian but we have a LOT of american tv shows here and i notice alot of stuff. for example in most american tv shows or family type show they betray the cities to be a place where thier is a lot of crime, smog, dirt, rude people, shooting, drugs, and gansters, basicly problems. so ppl start to believe that the city is a horriable place to live let alone raise a family. if u look at many usa cities, people left the cities to live in the suburbs, for example DETROIT, buffolo, cleveland, phillly rochester , and parts of atlanta. and these are cities that i had visited or read up on.

with the exception of NEW YORK, most tv shows based on a american city have the family living outside the city, its like the perferct american family lives in a suburb. for example, everyone loves raven, simpsons, married with chirldren, family guy, american dad, full house LOL.....and many more. and when the characters visit the cities they are looked at like a place with problems. i remeber watching the simpsons and in some episodes when they go downtown, they pass by some area that is full of bums, crack addicts, homeless, drugs, and very dirty. even in movies, for example the movie DERAILED, the main guys wife quoits ( I HATE THE CITY, WHY DO U HAVE TO WORK THEIR) something like that...... i have notice that its getting better but the hate toward the city is still there but now they focus more on reality shows. all iam saying is my opinion so PLEASE ppl dont get mad and start insulting me or something cuz all it's only an OPINION.

...........................

i agree with what jess19 is saying. although i am very aware of global warming, it's not like the cities will flood overnight. venice is constructing dams to help it from sinking and being flooded, which will be useful for the next 100 years and can withstand rising sea levels.

Venice's $3 billion project to build 79 enormous hinged gates to separate Venice and its lagoon from the Adriatic Sea. But the project has drawn criticism from environmentalists and a few prominent scientists who warn it will turn into a financial and environmental disaster.
and no where it says that it will last 100 YEARS, unless u can refer me to a proper site? but regardest it says that the SEA IS RISING....


It's not like one of the world's most powerful nation will just sit back and watch as L.A. and New york are flooded. I also think a lot of you statements are bias, and that some of them may be offense to anyone living withen the United States.

You speak as if the UNITED STATES is GOD himself, the most powerful country on earth cant do anything about it, if mother nature wants more cost line then mother nature will take it, americans will have to adapt NOT NATURE. that ingorance, and close minded is wat will hurt you at the end. in the stage of humanity as it is today we will never win agaisnt an aggressive war with nature. usa and no other country would, but we dont have to fight, we would adapt or eles we would waste so much time and energy on a war that we will end up lossing. i hate reffering to this situation but its my best example, (srry if u have open wounds) LOOK at NEW ORLEANS, thats one of the first of many battles to come. the most powerful country in the earth lost that battle and lost it hard.......adapt is KEY....not fight......

the world's most powerful nation and all nations will have to sit back and watch nature win..........srry......


Man, you have no idea what your talking about. Ryeler is not implying the United States is God; the United States is capable of anything, as is any other developed nation for that matter. They put a man on the moon for **** sakes! In that regard, we can compete against nature, as you thoroughly emphasized that we cannot. Look at global warming, a problem created by man. We have emitted so much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere that we are changing the atmospheric chemistry of our planet! And if you say that is not competing, you need to really re-examine your arguement and understanding of the issues being discussed.

And I don't agree with your other statement implying that it is only going to get worse, with the whole global warming issue. About 10 years ago, the "environment" ranked 8th as the main priorities for Canadians; now it is second, so the attitudes we are seeing are changing for the good. And personally I think it is extremely arrogant of you to even make assumptions of pre-determined facts.

And also, if you don't think a dam can last for a 100 years, you may want to examine some of the ancient structures in the world, the Great Pyramids for that matter. They have stood pretty much unchanged in an environment for at least 3000 years. Now put that into perspective with the technology we have today (ex. steel as compared to limestone).

[torontoboy]

Man, you have no idea what your talking about. Ryeler is not implying the United States is God; the United States is capable of anything, as is any other developed nation for that matter. They put a man on the moon for **** sakes! In that regard, we can compete against nature, as you thoroughly emphasized that we cannot. Look at global warming, a problem created by man. We have emitted so much greenhouse gases into the atmosphere that we are changing the atmospheric chemistry of our planet! And if you say that is not competing, you need to really re-examine your arguement and understanding of the issues being discussed.

YES i do have an idea of what iam talking about, or eles i'll be sounding like YOU!!! i NEVER said ryeler is implying that united states is god, only speaks like it. every country in this planet is valnurable, espacial if the world economy where to slow down. the united states is not capable of everything cuz if they where the world would be democratic, free trade, ECONOMICALLY FREE ect.... i dont think u know how valnurable the world is. the united states is a very powerfull country because they are more worldwide capitalist/business man and many citizens have businesses that make billions world wide. america itselfs profits from the busniess that makes products in their country and sells world wide. they also make billions on the entertainment industry, oil industry, automoblie industry, tourism ect.. but united states is in 8 trillion dollar dept. the eye-popping $8 trillion gross national debt is owed by the "General Fund." That's the part funded by their income taxes. Half of that goes for the military and to pay interest on the debt. the usa can't afford a worldwide economic slowdown of eles they wont be able to pay for the debt, in order to meet with there payment they would have to cut programs, social, and government. their military could loss funding and decrease the military power of the states. some investers might move thier money to other countries like china, thus deeping the problem.


How do we fit the environment and the disapearance of cities to this............remember iam just making up an realistic senario that can be possible.

well how about this......this is a STORY......

The end of NEW YORK................By Torontoboy

In the near future, around 2064 the world is experiencing an world economic slowdown (depression). This is do to with high costs of fuel, energy, materials ect ect...theirs tension in the middle east, world economies have become tight with money so they will not send in troops to stablize the middle east war could break out. thus india is becoming more unstable. the effects on global warming has been very noticable in the last decade (10 years). sever drought has brought up prices for food. the past decade the ice capes have been melting in a faster pace, the once ice covered north west passage is now open for business (WE MUST PROTECT IT). many cities have been having problems with rising sea levels, but not in major way. most cities have had an increase in unemployment b/c of the depression and crime is higher. NEW YORK has been having problems with flooding b/c of rising sea levels, and that the island of manhattan is sinking. the city had suffered a hurrican 8 years ago and it is still trying to recover, some land has been flooded. america is finding it hard to get enough money to build some sort of protection around some major cities that are being affected and paying of some debt and military. this year as been extremlly hot, the hottest on record. the sea waters are at the warmest temperture since record taking begain. although scientist have warn that if a major hurrican or a super hurican was to hit the city it would suffer greatlly. after the hurrican hit new york 8 years ago they build hinged gates to controle the water more and a promise was made to greatly expand on them funding was low so the project keep on being delayed. a hurican is forming on the east south atlantic, since the sea water temputer was so warm the hurican became strong enough to become stronger than a catigory 6 storm, the hurican heads toward new york, a large number of the population evaculate the city. the hurrican hits new york head on. the hinged gates dont hold and the city gets flooded, alot of building where distroyed and alot more and now not stable. the sewer, transit, subways and tunnes are badlt damaged. the strong wind had blown down some of the older building down and its just a mess. new york is now badly damaged, flooded, and has an unstable infrustruction. it would take many years to repair it and billions of billions of dollars worth of rebuilding. to pump out the water and keep it out, fix the infructructer, and bring the population back it would take many years and money. united states is in a hug depression and cant fund all that rebuilding. the world's capital is now in ruins. by the time it will take to rebuild new york, that land would be lossed to the sea, so most abondon the city. some new yorkers stay within the other state cities and start builing a new. at the end new york is lost but hope for a newer city is born.

and if the STATES ECONOMY GOES DOWN SO DOSE CANADA. say by bye to free health care, weathfare, and watever other social programs we have.

REMEMBER its just a story.... all i'm saying is that its highlly possible for countries to loss there cites to mother nature. i did exaggerated with my comment on MOST WORLD CITIES WILL VANISH, i just wanted to make a point. must warmer tempertures means more intense storms and rising sea level. and alot of our infrusctrution is not ready for it. .........

And I don't agree with your other statement implying that it is only going to get worse, with the whole global warming issue. About 10 years ago, the "environment" ranked 8th as the main priorities for Canadians; now it is second, so the attitudes we are seeing are changing for the good. And personally I think it is extremely arrogant of you to even make assumptions of pre-determined facts.

Canada is one of the lowest polluting countries at about 1-2 % responsible for total world pollution (but it is really high in a per capita basics). that is nothing and even if we were to become a 100% non polluter that will still be insignificant compared to the rest. it dosent matter as much if we think its the most important thing, but it mostly matter if the main sources think its important. and the truth is that THEY DONT/ and cant AFFORD it. The 3 biggest polluters are USA, INDIA and CHINA. thier economies are dependent on fossil fuels, and they cant afford to suddenlly stop reducing the use, but instead the use will grow. how will u DIG for the materials, use the energry that is needed for manufactoring, produce the products, transport the product, and sell the product with out using fossil fuels, its almost impossible right now so these countries will countiue to use them. the need for these fossil fuels will further increase, and because of china and india being develeping countries, thier need will increase intensintly for the fossil fuels. and even if alot of the vehicle were electric vehicle, were would u find the energy to power them, CARS, BOATS, TRUCKS, 18 WHEELERS, AIRCRAFT. thats alot of energy. so we would just be using coal power plants that produce CO2.

all I said is that global warming will affect our cities and toronto is in a safer spot than most.

Remember scientist said that it would only take a few degress to have major inpact to the world and the worlds economy.

most things i wrote here has been my oinion and i dont tink anyone should find it offensive.

[Alonzo-ny]

venice is an old city, very old...

and no where it says that it will last 100 YEARS, unless u can refer me to a proper site? but regardest it says that the SEA IS RISING....


......the world's most powerful nation and all nations will have to sit back and watch nature win..........srry......

boy you need to start talking like a person who is qualified to make an "educated guess" if you want to be taken seriously and start backing up your own claims with real articles before you ask us for one. and what the hell does 'regardest' mean?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Torontoboy, you are way off-topic.

Getting back to this...

According to an article I read in Harper's a few years ago, Toronto is the most diverse city in North America. Not the world, just North America.

NO toronto is the most multicultural city in the world according to the united nations.

So where's the info?

[kz1000ps]

Why are these <versus> threads allowed to stay open?

[torontoboy]

srry for going of topic.


Originally Posted by s.t.o.b. http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=148308#post148308)
According to an article I read in Harper's a few years ago, Toronto is the most diverse city in North America. Not the world, just North America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by torontoboy http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=148331#post148331)
NO toronto is the most multicultural city in the world according to the united nations.

So where's the info?

you are right about that, srry about that. TORONTO IS ONE OF THE MOST MULTICULTURAL CITY ON EARTH....


Originally Posted by torontoboy http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=148646#post148646)
venice is an old city, very old...

and no where it says that it will last 100 YEARS, unless u can refer me to a proper site? but regardest it says that the SEA IS RISING....


......the world's most powerful nation and all nations will have to sit back and watch nature win..........srry......
boy you need to start talking like a person who is qualified to make an "educated guess" if you want to be taken seriously and start backing up your own claims with real articles before you ask us for one. and what the hell does 'regardest' mean?

its regardless....... shit i though u would have the common sense to realize that. but u know what they say about commen sense.....ITS NOT THAT COMMEN....LOL

so ur telling me that i have to start talking like a person who is qualified to make an educated guess right. then why only point out that part, and not the whole thing, ( ppl are not perfect, and mistakes are not rare) but most of wat i wrote is not farfeched. i think u have to OPEN YOUR MIND cuz u seem a bit ignorant.

i dont think that u should start telling me how ppl view my comments because its my opinion, just like its ur opinion that ppl dont take me seriously.
most off my comments have facts and my opinion in them, but their is facts, why focus on the stupid parts instead of adding other facts that would benifit the disscussion. maybe u dont have any?

i notice that ppl here have negitive things to say without any facts but only their opinion. it would be nice to see a replye from and educated person that would let me see the other side. if u dont think these things are possible then u really have to open ur minds....sometimes i seem bias n i realize that and iam srry for that. but if someone has something to say put for meaning and effort to it.

NON IF UR REPLYES HAVE MADE MY COMMENTS FAULS.
so plz stop focusing on the inmature stuff and give me an EDUCATED RESPONS that i would benifit from.....THANK U

again srry for going of topic. is anyone interested in opening up formual that would dissuces how it would affect world cities. i dont know how but it would be nice......if someone can do that for me and title it something like......ONLY TORONTO WILL SURVIVE....LOl lmas JOKING JOKING......no call it HOW WILL WORLD CITIES BE AFFECTED BY RISING SEA LEVELS AND GLOBAL WARMING.....lol..thanks......

[ryeler]

toronto boy, you are pulling apart the basic fundaments of soceity in general. sure the dependance of oil has caused us some problems, but your statements are getting ridiculous. i was deffinetly not imlying that the US was god, i was simply using them as an example of a deveoloped country. Do you think that canada will sit back and watch as Vancouver is flooded, or China just ignore Hong Kong for beijing? As for the thing about venice, i seem to recall it from a discovery channel special or something, so I aplologize for not knowing.

I think that some of your opinions and statements are obsured, and that many of them to not have scientific, or and other backing for that matter. Also, the whole story thing with New York? That is just ridiculous. Most of your ideas are.. well I don't really have a word for it. I'll get my thesauras and get back to you. Furthermore, I hope you do realize that the sea will not rise overnight. You speak of things like they are going to happen tommorow.

All in all I think that this thread has gotten way out of hand, off topic that is. Comparing Toronto and Syndey is unfeasible. You would have to take in to acount every aspect of the city, from the very start of time itself. Just my opinion.

[jess19]

NON IF UR REPLYES HAVE MADE MY COMMENTS FAULS.
so plz stop focusing on the inmature stuff and give me an EDUCATED RESPONS that i would benifit from.....THANK U



You got to be joking. It would be much easier if you actually had some grammer and spelling skills that we could acutually understand and make sense of. So stop telling us to get an education, because that's a flat out contradiction it itself. And we have every right to criticize you opinion because they are flat out full of it. You seem to connect issues with what works for you, and that's bullshit. So I would appreciate it if you just left so I could benefit from much more thorough educated answers.

[canguy23m]

"In fact, Toronto has attracted so many cultures to its shores that the United Nations deemed it the world's most multicultural city"

from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/10/12/toronto.cuisine/index.html


It has over 200 000 Jewish people (top 8 in the world or top 2 outside of Israel/US)
Largest Italian community outside of Italy "Among those who call Toronto home are 80 different ethnic groups, including the largest Italian population outside of Italy" http://dest.travelocity.com/DestGuides/0,,AOLSVC%7C3342%7C3%7C1%7C241932,00.html

The other thing that you'll notice if you go to Toronto, there is no real accent because it seems like everyone comes from a different background.
"Toronto right after New York and London as the third-largest theater center in the English-speaking world" http://dest.travelocity.com/DestGuides/0,,AOLSVC%7C3342%7C3%7C1%7C241932,00.html
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/profil01/CP01/Details/Page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=CMA&Code1=535__&Geo2=PR&Code2=35&Data=Count&SearchText=toronto&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&B1=All&Custom=


the Toronto CMA covers 5900 km squared of area (in that area it has 6 million people right now)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto (also says if Toronto enlarged its area it would have 8 million people approximately)
the city of Sydney covers 12,144.6 km² http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney
so saying a more fair comparison would give Toronto 8 million people makes sense since over 10 million people live in southern Ontario and greater Toronto would have to double its area to get to 12000 km of area.
So comparing the numbers 4.2 million to 8 million makes Toronto a lot bigger in my opinion.

[canguy23m]

[img]
Both are medium-size cities, have a space-needle like tower. One rules the north and the other, the south. Which skyline is better?


no Sydney has 4.2 million people in 12,144.6 km² area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney
Toronto has 6 million people in 5900 km squared area http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto
If Toronto enlarged its area to the size of Sydney's it would easily have approximately 8 million people "The rounded shore of Lake Ontario forms what is described as the Golden Horseshoe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe), the approximate population of which is 8 million people" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto
which puts it right next to Chicago in terms of Metro population and city population. That makes it a big city not a medium sized one.
Other major cities which I think are just as underrepresented as Toronto because their area isn't nearly as large
Berlin, Boston
I heard something on espn a couple days ago in an interview with C. Bosh someone said Toronto was a small market. That's wrong and I e mailed the guy lol

[Bright Lights, Big City]

As far as cultural diversity goes, Toronto and New York are about on par, though the answer varies depending on how you define the term "multicultural" or "cultural diversity."

New York, as with the rest of the US, is mostly divided into ethnic enclaves where a particular ethnic group makes up the majority of the population. This is especially true with the two largest minority groups in the US: black and hispanic. Go to the South Bronx or Brownsville and how many white, Chinese, Indian or other ethnicities will you see? Very few, if any. As a white-skinned male walking through these neighborhoods, I find myself the object of curious stares, comments, and flat-out shock and surprise. You'll never find this in Toronto. Ever. Even in the most distinctive ethnic neighborhoods like Chinatown or Greektown, the ethnic mix is far more diverse than any American city I've ever been to. Even in the poorest neighborhoods of Toronto, whites, blacks, Asians, hispanics, and every other nationality lives side-by-side. In American cities, the poorest neighborhoods are invariably populated by a vast majority of black and/or hispanic people, with scarcely a single white person to be found.

So, as far as multiculturalism goes, if it means the mix of cultures, Toronto has pretty much every other city beat, not just because more than 40% of our population is an ethnic minority, but because we all live together, in the same buildings and neighborhoods, we work and go to school together and our social groups almost always reflect this diversity. In Chicago, my very liberal relatives scoffed when I asked them if they had any black or hispanic friends: "They don't want to be friends with us, so why should we be friends with them," was the reply. This attitude is very prevalent in American cities, but is truly an endangered species in Toronto.

In terms of the actual number of ethnic groups or ethnic minorities living in the city, New York does beat Toronto. But it is a larger city and has been a center of immigration for over a hundred years. By comparison, Toronto has grown to become one of the world's most culturally diverse cities in only thirty or so years. A tremendous accomplishment, if you ask me. In that time, our ethnic communities have grown to the point where Toronto's Greeks, Italians, Somalis, Chinese, Jews, Croatians/Serbians, Sri Lankans, Filipinos, Jamaicans, Trinidadians, Guyanese, Ghanans and several other groups have become some of the largest in the world outside their homeland.

Standing in any neighborhood in Metro Toronto, you will see just as many ethnic minorities as you do white Anglos. One, unfortunately cannot say the same thing about most cities in the world, especially American ones.

Although New York is my favorite city, I have to say that the ethnic makeup of the city and the white/minority relations are awful for one of the most liberal corners of the country. In New York, skin color and ethnicity largely dictates where you will live, who your neighbors will be, where you will go to school, what services will be available to you, what friends you will have, what kinds of jobs will be available to you (this may be a controversial statement, but it is true in many cases), what food you will eat, how healthy you will be (think of all the black and hispanic kids in the South Bronx suffering from the highest rates of asthma in the country, or the black project-dwellers who have some of the highest rates of diabetes), the relative safety of your neighborhood, and so on and so on. I think, by and large, your ethnicity has little impact on these factors for people in Toronto. Instead, economic status is much more important. As I've always liked to say, in Canada we treat all our poor equally shitty, regardless of race.

Now I know this has little to do with the original topic, but the question was posed and I'm offering my answer. For those who have scoffed at the idea that Toronto might be more ethnically diverse than NYC, come and see for yourself. You might be surprised.


peace

BL, BC

[pianoman11686]

An apt distinction, IMO.

[chrisboy47]

By the way all you toronto people that think you know everything about sydney and use wikipedia for all the knowledge, your all wrong!. that 12,000km most of it is national parklands a.k.a the bluemountains which stretches about 100km west of sydney. If the urban area went south and north instead of far west it would proabably have around 5 million people in it. Hunter valley reigon has 700,000 people and wollongong has 200,000+ people.

But it it officially around 4,300,000

So the moral of the story is you Canadians are soo up yourselves, enjoy your very cold long winters lol! while we are all happy, warm and better than you torontonians lol! (owned)

[ryeler]

By the way all you toronto people that think you know everything about sydney and use wikipedia for all the knowledge, your all wrong!. that 12,000km most of it is national parklands a.k.a the bluemountains which stretches about 100km west of sydney. If the urban area went south and north instead of far west it would proabably have around 5 million people in it. Hunter valley reigon has 700,000 people and wollongong has 200,000+ people.

But it it officially around 4,300,000

So the moral of the story is you Canadians are soo up yourselves, enjoy your very cold long winters lol! while we are all happy, warm and better than you torontonians lol! (owned)

wow. btw, whats 'soo up yourselves'? toronto had a record hot year in 2006. Now your just being rude aswell.

[Bright Lights, Big City]

So the moral of the story is you Canadians are soo up yourselves, enjoy your very cold long winters lol! while we are all happy, warm and better than you torontonians lol! (owned)



Dude, listen to yourself, you sound like an idiot. And what the hell do you mean by "soo up ourselves?" Doesn't make any sense and neither does your silly little taunt. I'm guessing that you're trying to say we're full of ourselves, but your post seems to indicate that the one who's "soo up" himself is you.

The fact is, all of this crap is completely subjective. Furthermore, a lot of the people posting negative BS about Toronto have never even been here and are in no position to make the statements they've made. As far as skylines go, Toronto has far more skyscrapers than Sydney - if this is what makes one skyline better than another, then Toronto easily wins. But if this is more about aesthetics, then it is a fruitless debate because everybody's aesthetic sensibilities are going to differ. On top of that, what seems to be happening here is that people from Sydney say their city is better, while people from Toronto say theirs is better. It really has nothing to do with the original question, it's just a case of civic partisanship that is not subject to reasonable judgments. People will always pick their own city, because that's where they live so of course they're going to say it's better.

But if you look at objective facts, Toronto beats out Sydney in several areas, and Sydney beats out Toronto in some areas, too. I think that in most respects, the cities are about on par. Toronto is more urban, has a stronger economy, has more cultural diversity, more skyscrapers, more old architecture, and has a certain rugged charm that comes from the crazy mix and match of old and new buildings, wooden hydro poles, streetcar wires overhead, and a look of moderate dilapidation in many of its best neighborhoods that gives it real character and a very unique look.

Sydney, on the other hand, has a better climate, great beaches, a beautiful setting, a couple of iconic structures, and a relatively clean, modern look that contrasts with Toronto's many Victorian-style townhouses and row-houses mixed in with low-rise brick buildings that are really quite charming and sometimes even beautiful.

So really, the arguing and childish taunts are totally uncalled-for. Both cities are great places to live and visit, and both have impressive skylines. Toronto has many more skyscrapers and, in my opinion, they are generally more distinctive and memorable than Sydney's, but really, there's no need to take it so personally.

Peace

BL, BC

[jess19]

By the way all you toronto people that think you know everything about sydney and use wikipedia for all the knowledge, your all wrong!. that 12,000km most of it is national parklands a.k.a the bluemountains which stretches about 100km west of sydney. If the urban area went south and north instead of far west it would proabably have around 5 million people in it. Hunter valley reigon has 700,000 people and wollongong has 200,000+ people.

But it it officially around 4,300,000

So the moral of the story is you Canadians are soo up yourselves, enjoy your very cold long winters lol! while we are all happy, warm and better than you torontonians lol! (owned)

Do I gotta shut down this idiot again, like honestly, he's so full of it. Obviously you think you know everything about Toronto to be continually bashing it, so shut your mouth. And maybe if you actually researched Toronto you will realize that this city doesn;t have long and cold winters, as you continuously imply. This year Toronto has only experienced two months of snow, as compared to a regular four. Our climate is comparitevely warm as compared to other parts of our country during the winter solstice. And on a final note, stop bragging about how naturally beautiful Sydney is because it is MEDIOCRE in comparision to other cities, such as Rio de Janiero; by far the most beautiful city on earth when it comes to natural setting .

So, THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS Austrialians are so full of themselves. Stop bragging about your only city actually worth recognizing.

And what happened to discussing the skylines between the two cities??

[torontoboy]

PLZ MAKE SURE U LOOK AT ALL THE PICS IN THE LINKS B$ U START JUGDING TORONTO...thanks

[torontoboy]

hey jguys cjeck out this thread about toronto and look at the pics and density of toronto and u will discouver that toronto is a much more impressive city then sydney when it comes to skylines.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=334362

[torontoboy]

hey here is an other thread about toronto....

After u looked at all the PICTURES tell me HOW IN ANYWAY does Sydney beat Toronto on a more impressive skyline. Toronto is much betterand taller.

LOOK and see 4 your self
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=147696&page=2

and look at some skylines in the METRO area.

make sure u look at both Missisuaga and NORTH YORKS skylines.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=303415

if u have any pics that sydney is comparable to toronto then PLZ shut me up... THANKS.....

[ablarc]

Those parking lots ... ! Why can't Toronto get rid of all those parking lots?

Holes in the city.

[torontoboy]

#124 (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151657&postcount=124)
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif March 4th, 2007, 11:31 AM
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 5,486


http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
Those parking lots ... ! Why can't Toronto get rid of all those parking lots?

Holes in the city.



well if u look at the dates the pics are pretty old, most of those spots have been filled, are getting filled, or are waiting to get filled. theres tons of constrution in the city and more projects are beeing approved, u/c or proposed every day. just wait a few years and that "toronto has to much parking lots" saying will be history!!!!

[ablarc]

^ Most of the time when they build on a parking lot, don't they just tear down a few buildings to replace the parking?

Or ... what?



Do you get tax relief if you demolish your unprofitable old building for a lot?

[Ed007Toronto]

Actually the tax system was changed a few years back that discourages parking lots. 50,000 new condo units over the last half decade plus new commercial construction has taken out a lot of the parking lots.

[engaland]

I choose vote Sydney! because people go to sydney. true!

[homeandaway]

Engaland - what are you talking about?.

I personally think that Sydney is far more better than Toronto, but again the skylines of both cities are rivals, but Sydney Skyline, methinks is better!
~Alex~

[Bright Lights, Big City]

I do like some of the pictures in the first link above, but it seems that all the toronto pics I've seen on the internet are of the same places - basically, from Harborfront to Eglinton, then from Spadina to Jarvis. The thing is, with a few exceptions, these are the most boring parts of the city architecturally. One day I'll post my pics of Toronto's neighborhoods - far more interesting to look at, and lots of cool buildings. Only when you see these pics will you see what the city really looks like to most of its residents.


BL, BC

[Alonzo-ny]

was the pic of toronto supposed to be good?

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Here's a nice shot of toronto's skyline at night. Click the link, then scroll a little less than half-way down the page.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=443952


Also, in the second link provided by torontoboy, a good third of the skyline is cropped (the southermost and southeast end of the city). Although the skyline looks quite impressive in this shot, you have to remember that about 1/3 of the main skyline is missing before you make your judgements. You also have to remember that this is just the downtown skyline. There are also many large snatches of highrises in Mississauga, Scarborough and North York. If you added up all these additional skylines and put them next to the downtown skyline, it would grow to more than twice its size. But it's hard to get a wide enough shot to encompass all of Toronto's skylines (remember, just a few years ago, Toronto was actually four separate cities), so it's not easy to get an idea of how large the city really is and how many skyscrapers there really are in the city.

BL, BC

[lofter1]

Nice shot ^^^ of Toronto there ...

Scroll down a bit farther on that page and take a look at Mexico City :eek:

[torontoboy]

ya like
Bright Lights, Big City (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/member.php?u=7132) said thier is to much high rises and density clusters all through out the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) to realise how big it is. for example..

PIC 1/2/3
MISSISAUGA
Pic 4/5/6
NORTH YORK

[torontoboy]

srry pic 5 didnt work.

k these are some pics of the future downtown toronto

and one of my FAV cities VANCOUVER...

[Bright Lights, Big City]

The first shot of the TO skyline in the last post provides a much wider view of the downtown skyline. One of the best I've seen. Also remember that the areas around the highrises covered with trees and foliage are also very heavily developed, but since most of Toronto's downtown neighborhoods are low-rise (6 stories or less), the old trees obscure much of the development. This is especially true in the east end, which is visible on the right side of the photo.

And keep in mind that, besides city center skylines in Sauga, Yonge & Shep, Scarborough TC, there are also big clusters like Jane and Finch, Vic Park and Danforth area (and throughout Scarborough for that matter), Thorncliffe / Flemingdom Park area and other residential highrise clusters that are quite substantial. Again, it's impossible to get all these areas in one shot because they are spread out over a very wide area.

peace

BL, BC

[canguy23m]

By the way all you toronto people that think you know everything about sydney and use wikipedia for all the knowledge, your all wrong!. that 12,000km most of it is national parklands a.k.a the bluemountains which stretches about 100km west of sydney. If the urban area went south and north instead of far west it would proabably have around 5 million people in it. Hunter valley reigon has 700,000 people and wollongong has 200,000+ people.

But it it officially around 4,300,000

So the moral of the story is you Canadians are soo up yourselves, enjoy your very cold long winters lol! while we are all happy, warm and better than you torontonians lol! (owned)


Sydney's 4.3 million people already live in an area twice the size of Toronto Greater Metro Area.
If the GTA (Toronto) doubled its area it would cover an area equal to what Sydney has 4.3 million people in and the area would still be much smaller than Chicago.
If Toronto doubled its area it would easily bring its population up to around 8 million http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto because it would cover the 'Horseshoe' region in southern Ontario.
8 million is a lot larger than 4.3 million
Forbes.com world's billoinaires list has come out and lists Toronto as home to the 10th richest person in the world http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/10/07billionaires_The-Worlds-Billionaires_Rank.html richest person in Australia is number 142.
The cold long winters just gives Toronto something else it has in common with Paris, London, and NYC.
Fox news is based in Australia and you're saying that Canadians are 'up themselves' ?
I guess Canadians overrate their country considering it's part of the G8, home of the current mlb, nhl, and nba mvp's, home of the founder of basketball, first nba game ever was played in Toronto, Canada recently got recognized by hollywood for being home to the founder of MGM (Louis B. Mayer) and James Warner (founder of Warner Brothers)
Toronto's stock exchange is one of the 10 largest in the world
Toronto's GTA economic size ranks top 7 when compared to other big cities.
Home to 5 banks which if they merge would form one of the 5 largest banks in the world.

[canguy23m]

I choose vote Sydney! because people go to sydney. true!


is that why Toronto is home to one of the 30 busiest airports in the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_busiest_airport even after 9/11, and sars. and no city in Australia is.

Considering all the bad media coverage Canada got because it didn't join the war in Iraq, Australia did so it got good media coverage in major markets, and that the olympics were in Australia in 2000 if anything it's Toronto that's being underrated.

[Bright Lights, Big City]

When Torontoboy posted this link on the last page ( http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=334362 Reply With Quote) I browsed through the first page and then stopped. Today, however, I had some spare time so I decided to go through all 11 or so pages of the thread. For those of you who haven't been to Toronto and what to get a good idea of what it looks like, this thread is a very thorough pictorial representation of the city. Before anyone judges whether or not Sydney is better than Toronto in terms of skyline or architecture, I definitely recommend going through the entire thread because it really does have some great shots and showcases some of Toronto's best architecture. I think this thread is especially good for people who haven't been to Toronto and want to get and idea of what it's like. peace BL, BC

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Here's another decent shot of TO's skyline from the CN Tower. Again, it's just the eastern part and misses the southern and Western sections of the skyline, and a large hunk of the northern stretch of the skyline which follows Yonge St. for miles (similar to the distance from the Financial District of NYC to Inwood).
This photo was taken by a member of skyscrapers.com named Taller, Better, from the same thread noted above.

I hope the picture actually appears, because I've never posted one here before. :confused:


http://static.flickr.com/56/159545690_6d4dece5ec_b.jpg
http://http://static.flickr.com/56/159545690_6d4dece5ec_b.jpg

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Here are some examples of what I meant when I was talking about Toronto's unique character and charm. These are also photos taken by Taller, Better
and can be found at the website address posted in the above post. I think they do a good job in showcasing some of Toronto's beautiful architecture - at least the older, low-rise stuff.

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/3811/may2806berkeleystcobblestones7.jpg


http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5176/may2806clarencesquare2db.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6350/may2906gooderhambuilding2bc.jpg


Here's a skyline shot looking north - gives you an idea how far it stretches north.

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/17/may2706tdcentreviewsx3lj.jpg

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/7620/may2606stjosephsttownhouses1pn.jpg

http://img478.imageshack.us/img478/9219/may2406monteithstlordthompsono.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9094/may0706frontst3ad.jpg

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/9812/april1606beachesstylehousesii5.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2690/april1606queenst1re.jpg



Anyways, I just thought I'd post some of the better pics of Toronto architecture. Suck on that Sydney!!!:D

Again, the credit for these photos must go to Taller, Better. I figured that it would be more likely for people to see these pics if I posted them here than if they were forced to go through all fifteen pages of Taller, Better's amazing Toronto picture spread. Of course, if y'all like what you see, you should certainly check the thread for more of the same.

peace

BL, BC

[homeandaway]

cool pics!, im going there at easter.

[torontoboy]

ya for example this is a pic of missisauga from across the lake, on st. catherines. someone from the missiuaga formual took this..
sydneys METRO just dosent even come close to toronto's METRO.
its funny that after i posted those pics no one from sydney never posted anything on sydney again. i guess its the smartest thing to do....LOL

[Bright Lights, Big City]

Yeah, no one's posted here but us two in a while. I was hoping people would comment on those photos I posted. Since there are so many people posting their opinions on this thread who have never been to Toronto, I thought that posting a few photos of some of our more remarkable architecture would elicit at least a little interest. Perhaps not.

And I have taken the opportunity to visit a number of urban message boards and forums dedicated to urban photography to get a better sense of what Sydney looked like beyond the skyline. I've seen dozens of shots of Sydney's skyline and it's not nearly as "impressive" as Toronto's, though architectural preferences are another thing altogether because of the subjectivity involved in peoples' unique perception of beauty. But Toronto's is much bigger, and there are far more tall buildings. Not all of them are beautiful, but I don't find any of the modern-looking highrises in Sydney's skyline to be very attractive at all.

But I've spent some time looking at street-level photos of Sydney, and it doesn't appear to be as urban as Toronto, and the architectural styles and overall effect is not, in my opinion, comparable.

That's what I think.

peace

BL, BC

[chrisboy47]

Omg your still going on.. haha.

Well i respect your opinions, All I say is that Toronto looks very typical north american, not very unique. But i like CN tower though, pretty pretty.

And by the way we're the city has nothing to do with metropolitan population area etc..
I've heard from many canadians from places like vancouver that people from Toronto think it's the centre of the universe, from reading this forum I'm starting believe it's true, most sydney siders don't think of Sydney like that at all because we are more global!

Moral of the story: Sydney is a vibant, fun and energetic city, the ultimate urban experience of the southern hemisphere. Go back to your igloo's.

[ryeler]

Go back to your igloo's.


Now that is just outright offensive.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Go back to your igloo's.[sic]So much for globalization.

[Bright Lights, Big City]

oops

[Bright Lights, Big City]

I've heard from many canadians from places like vancouver that people from Toronto think it's the centre of the universe, from reading this forum I'm starting believe it's true, most sydney siders don't think of Sydney like that at all because we are more global!


Most Canadians hate Toronto in the way many Americans hate NYC. Because so much of the country's financial, cultural, and political institutions are based here, many people from other cities tend to think that Toronto and its people are arrogant and that we all believe we're the center of the universe. The fact is, as the nation's largest city, we have many of nation's most important institutions and are the center or trade and commerce, plus a cultural powerhouse in Canada. Now, that certainly doesn't make us the center of the universe, but it does make us the center of the country in some respects. Toronto haters are really just people who wish that their cities were the biggest in the nation, and that they had the same clout and national importance of Toronto. Of course, cities like Vancouver and Montreal are important in their own ways, but some people aren't satisfied until they have it all.


BL, BC

[homeandaway]

Sydney 4 Eva!

[alanmartyniuk]

Most Canadians hate Toronto in the way many Americans hate NYC. Because so much of the country's financial, cultural, and political institutions are based here, many people from other cities tend to think that Toronto and its people are arrogant and that we all believe we're the center of the universe. The fact is, as the nation's largest city, we have many of nation's most important institutions and are the center or trade and commerce, plus a cultural powerhouse in Canada. Now, that certainly doesn't make us the center of the universe, but it does make us the center of the country in some respects. Toronto haters are really just people who wish that their cities were the biggest in the nation, and that they had the same clout and national importance of Toronto. Of course, cities like Vancouver and Montreal are important in their own ways, but some people aren't satisfied until they have it all.


BL, BC

People don't hate New York. You make it seem so personal...I've visited Vancouver and Montreal, people in both cities seem pretty content, especially vancouverites with the whole beach culture/quality of life. Btw, Canada doesn't have a new york, toronto's more like canada's Chicago, cuz of the skyscrapers.

[Meerkat]

Toronto wins hands down.
The Skyline and the people.

[ryeler]

Sydney has more scrapers and it looks amazing at night, although i do like the cn for its height. What is the story with all the new proposed towers to the left in that photo

All residential towers along the water.

Ha ha, this is kind of delayed responses, but i was just reading through the thread. Yes the saphire tower is still on, slightly shortend. The Trump will also begin construction soon, aswell as many developments on the water eastward, towards the front of the main downtown core. The Air Canada center (one of arena s) will also be getting an addition of two redidential towers, which will be quite tall. The shangra-la and ritz carelton are also approved and construction will begin soon.

[Zephyr]

People don't hate New York. You make it seem so personal...I've visited Vancouver and Montreal, people in both cities seem pretty content, especially vancouverites with the whole beach culture/quality of life. Btw, Canada doesn't have a new york, toronto's more like canada's Chicago, cuz of the skyscrapers.

There are actually people who hate New York City, and a lot more than you would suspect. But I agree with most of the rest of this.

Having traveled back and forth between Toronto and Chicago for the last ten years, what once looked like a great divide has softened to the point that I see more similarities than differences. Chicago's architectural look is more interesting to me, more exploratory and richer, but that is not to denigrate Toronto, because I can accept the counter argument there as well. The poulations, the cultural institutions, the diversities, the role of a lake, all contribute to the comparison.

From a Canadian standpoint, Toronto is not alone at the top but is in direct competition with their neighbour to the east, although both deny it.

[jord515]

I have not been to Sydney, and so I can't compare it to Toronto. But I can say why T.O. has the greatest downtown: Two universities, great waterfront, dense skyline, packed with people, famous buildings (CN Tower, Skydome a.k.a. Rogers Centre, Hockey Hall of Fame, Ontario Parliament, ROM, Casa Loma, City Hall and Old City Hall to name a few), great city centres (Yonge&Dundas Square, Nathan Phillips Square, BCE Place, Queen's Park, Queen's Quay Place on waterfront), great neighbourhoods (Upscale Yorkville, Lower Jarvis, Queen's Quay, and more), clean and well-kept streets, good club scene (King Street East, Guvurnment Night Club, Picadilly's), enthusiam in sports (Leafs, Jays, Raptors and Argonauts all play in downtown arenas).. the list could go on and on, but the thing about downtown Toronto is that everything downtown is so close together and withing walking distance (unlike NYC), so it really does seem like a city centre.

[jord515]

Here is another picture of the Toronto skyline, in 2010.

[futurecity]

I think Sydney's lifestyle would beat Toronto's anyday - beaches, harbor, vegetation, etc. Sydney's skyline is just as nice and its waterfront nicer. Sydney also has nicer beach suburbs, etc. Toronto's downtown is rather bland, it didn't do anything for me. But the new projects look to change it somewhat. Toronto needs a little more color IMO. I think Toronto trumps sydney on ethnic diveresity, but Sydney has enough. Also, sydney has a nice downtown pedestrianized mall which I like b/c I agree with that sort of urban planning.

I think the perception of sydney is more lighthearted, and Toronto comes across of as a more sombre destination. Sydney wins!

[alanmartyniuk]

Sydney's skyline is definitely smaller, but looks a million times more futuristic than Toronto's. Their most siginificant project right now is the Trump Tower, which looks as if someone rehatched a failed design from the 80's. Someone said something a while back about the city's buildings coming in groups of identical pairs, triplets, etc, and I have to agree. Judging from all the commie blocks to the north and the location of the new identical towers that make the skyline look as big as possible despite future residents' horrible location relative to shopping etc, it's definitely more about the quantity than quality.

[futurecity]

Sydney's skyline is not that futuristic looking IMO.. why is it futuristic, what buildings are designed in the futurist style? Seems more like PoMo to me, or modernism. Sydneys CBD is more elegant on stret level -- Pitt street is nicer than Yonge street.

[kamisori]

Toronto continues to rank well on several fronts as compared to many world cities. This recognition demonstrates that Toronto is a leader in providing a quality of life that is amongst the best in the world for the approximately 6 million residents who choose to live and work in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA).

The most recent ranking came from Standard & Poor’s 2007 Industry Report Card that ranked Toronto as one of the top 10 economic centres in the world. Selected from more than 15,000 local, state, and regional governments in the United States, and more than 340 others in 27 countries, Toronto’s role as a major economic hub in Canada, its depth of services, and deep and well-diversified economy has earned the city top marks. Toronto joins Chicago, London, Los Angeles, Madrid, Milan, Moscow, New York City, Paris and Yokohama on the list. All cities considered have a population of more than one million.

A further testament to Toronto’s success is the number one ranking in the quality of life category the city received earlier this year from Foreign Direct Investment (fDi) magazine as part of its 2007 North American Cities of the Future index. One hundred and eight cities were evaluated on economic potential, cost effectiveness, human resources, quality of life, infrastructure, business friendliness, development and investment promotion. The April edition of fDi magazine put Toronto second only to Chicago as the 2007 North American City of the Future.

A study released in March 2007, titled Cities of Opportunity: Business-Readiness Indicators for the 21st Century, ranked Toronto near the top with Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles and Singapore in the areas of cost, ease of doing business and demographic advantages. The ranking compiled by the Partnership for New York City and PricewaterhouseCoopers compared 11 cities - Atlanta, Chicago, Frankfurt, London, Los Angeles, New York, Paris, Shanghai, Singapore, Tokyo and Toronto - based on cost, intellectual capital, technology IQ and innovation, transportation assets, demographic advantages, financial clout, ease of doing business, lifestyle assets, and safety and security.

The Economist Intelligence Unit (the Economist Magazine) ranked Toronto fifth in the world for liveability. The December 2006 study surveyed 132 cities. Low crime, little threat from instability or terrorism, and a highly developed transport and communications infrastructure helped Toronto make the top five most liveable cities in the world.

Toronto is rated within the top 10 financial centres in the world according to a survey conducted by Z/Yen Group Limited for the City of London (UK). The September 2007 report evaluated the competitiveness of 50 financial centres worldwide using results of online surveys completed by financial services leaders, and 54 separate indices of competitiveness.

In October of 2005, Toronto was declared North America’s top-rated economy according to LaSalle Investment Management’s 2005 North American Regional Economic Growth Index. This index is a leading indicator of economic strength in North America’s largest metropolitan areas. The index is based on factors such as employment and population growth, as well as momentum and risk factors including volatility, diversity, and business costs. Four Canadian cities - Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto and Montreal - are included in the 36 North American cities evaluated. The ranking looked at strong employment and population growth through 2009, as well as a positive economic outlook for the city as being the major factors behind Toronto’s top ranking.

A 2007 survey conducted by the CanadaWest Foundation revealed that 81.1 per cent of Toronto residents think the overall quality of life in their city is “good” or “very good.”


Moral of the story? The filming of "Finding Nemo" will not convince anyone that Sydney is better than Toronto nor will these facts above prove that Toronto is better than Sydney. I posted these facts to show some bashers that Toronto is indeed a global city with many qualities which are sometimes unique and unmatched by other cities. In my opinion, it is really a matter of personal choice - what the individual prefers and what they like and want from the offerings of that city. You can never come to an agreement or bring convincement if you speak about a city highly in a general sense (and without references) and sound like your representing that city for everyone, people have different opinions. If want to speak about facts for a city than show references so it’s believable. Both cities are beautiful and to put it into prospective, every time there is a survey of the best cities to live in the world , it's always Canadian and Australian cities that are on it including Toronto and Sydney somewhere on top. Finally, my personal choice? Toronto - because this city helped me live out my goals and given me successes that some people only dream about.;)

[namless dude]

If I can forge cities together, IMO the best will be a mixture of Melbourne's architecture and height in Sydney's location retaining the Harbour Bridge and the Opera House combined with a CN tower built on the base of the bridge to give the city a taller, 3rd icon.

Anyway, here are some google earth satellite images. I did some calculations on the density of both cities. What is striking is the difference in the true density of the area. This only measures the high rise density (more than 15 storey) in the epicentre.
http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/forumimage/Syd-M-1.jpghttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/forumimage/Syd-M-2.jpg
http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/forumimage/Tor-M-1.jpg
http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/forumimage/Tor-M-2.jpg

Here's a video of some of the parts of downtown Sydney, including the monorails and Pitt Street. Also for the people who think Sydney isn't as dense as toronto as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAmwpa52jxo

Now some pics: (sorry about the absurd size for some of them, but take a look at the multiculture as well. Also, notice that there are other skylines around as well. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Mississuaga a part of the Greater Toronto Area, which is like Greater Metropolitan Region of Sydney, which is combining others such as the Central Coast and Wollongong with Sydney?)
http://www.planetware.com/i/photo/sydney-ausw099.jpg

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9073/p1020305editxi0.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/kakamesh/mg3731mcj3.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2276/2442365829_a308eeb1a5_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2282/2476858074_efae52c77b_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3190/3095340168_0004472854_b.jpg
http://www.azureglobe.com/cs/sydney_from_botany_bay_750.jpg
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/ibid/images/Sydney_Skyline_UTSsmall2.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/Pitt_Street_Mall_Sydney.jpg
http://tinypic.com/oh9qf.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6475/chatswood2006dm2.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/3171733024_9769220a41_b.jpg
http://www.urbanfreak.net/images/headers/12.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3888/sydneypanobr9.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/50153742_a2ab97ba2e_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1287/903441799_13551b5462_o.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/519781135_835501c5f3_o.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/Bronteboy/southyarra155.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/Bronteboy/southyarra150.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/Bronteboy/southyarra171.jpg
http://www.citynoise.org/upload/10036.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9f/SydneyfromGladesvilleBridge.JPG/800px-SydneyfromGladesvilleBridge.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/SydneyfromGladesvilleBridge.JPG)
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/201331038_89129c3900_b.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/420643300_37430eeabd_o.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/352651959_1a636d47fd_b.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/366890916_77c1732772_b.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/144460259_4d30af60c9_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/768783074_c4c3ca33e3_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/90/251179741_9a23198a78_o.jpg
http://sabenandshirl.com/Home/Page%204.3.jpg

http://bp2.blogger.com/_NkgE-wS9DP8/Rinrlf1648I/AAAAAAAAAFI/5u8PDYi2-9I/s400/Australia5+022_blog.jpghttp://lh4.ggpht.com/chrissiesharp/RYLoe-1a_2I/AAAAAAAAAeU/duVpkd9z1Cw/s720/100_2551.jpghttp://lh3.ggpht.com/_QFjFwRdCV7k/R46O2x8VRcI/AAAAAAAAAFM/e7BIKmVac8g/DSC00067.JPG
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1173/1347069372_d2961640f9.jpg?v=0
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/SydneyMonorail1_gobeirne.jpg
http://www.travelsinparadise.com/australia/sydney/pictures/sydney-skyline-02.jpg

Alternate Sydney Skylines without the Opera House and Harbour Bridge:
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/missxlollyx/042607012.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff296/MikeRomeo_ATC/IMG_9918-1.jpg

Aerial views:
http://www.earlowen.com.au/Earl%20Owen/Images%2B/aerialnorthsydney.gif
http://www.bcl.com.au/sydney/images/tnsw/008320v.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g228/AdeMelbourne/Sydney/421546387_64124b109c_b.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/dougfam/New_Gladesville_Bridge_Large.jpg

http://www.digital-photo.com.au/gallery/d/6923-1/Sydney-Campbell-Street-at-night_MG_4820.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_XCxv4X4Nydg/SI7mqf3bHrI/AAAAAAAAP5s/wzM26KLUbC0/IMG_0957.JPG
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_B_I4u5F207Y/R-ZUbw6gVwI/AAAAAAAAAW8/Mxz6gMVGGBg/http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v460/Bronteboy/ww31.jpg

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1929/dscf2535cy7.jpghttp://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8227/p2220795pg8.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2797/dscf4080ab8.jpg
http://easteatswest.typepad.com/./photos/uncategorized/boxers_day_queue_sydney.jpg

George Street:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1406/1266129841_fcfa0d5715.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2058/2232769158_a4d6455183.jpg?v=0

Darling Harbour:
http://www.dagslocationservices.com.au/Pictures/aus_DarlingHarbour.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OA0cqGVC2vc/RxG3TnWKgAI/AAAAAAAAAR0/ptGOa5TXYfk/s1600/20040713DarlingHarbour03.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WPORwqYiWWE/RS8Zi26uABI/AAAAAAAAAPM/Kp2JMV5MpaE/Sydney8-13_06_Darling_Harbour+%28117%29.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/Darling_harbour_sydney_showing_harbourside.jpg
http://www.iki.fi/emm/vaihto_kuvat/darling_harbour_night.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o6/33/725533/1/71167779.gbn3yA0j.IMG_2759Medium.JPG
http://www.h2otaxis.com.au/images/photos/darling_harbour.jpg

Circular Quay:
http://www.matarua.com/photo%20album/Australia/sydneywaterfront.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/g6/62/750662/2/86805567.NZVlSAZH.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/landry.lianne/RjIyJUmCx-I/AAAAAAAAAcA/VuAc5gT-qxE/Circular%20quay-Aboriginal%20musicians.JPG

http://www.poese.com/boysstatue.jpg
(human statue)

The old fashioned Queen Victoria Building shopping mall:
http://www.aviewoncities.com/img/sydney/kveau0143s.jpg
http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Travel/Pacific/QueenVictoriaBuilding.jpg


Royal Botanical Gardens:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/Sydney_Royal_Botanic_Gardens_01.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Sydney_skyline_from_royal_botanical_gardens.jpg
http://www.matthiasbook.de/travel/sydney2005/IMG1217MB.jpg

Hyde Park:

http://z.about.com/d/goaustralia/1/0/p/G/sydney1j.jpg
http://altanone.smugmug.com/photos/92564676-M.jpg

Some other ones:
http://www.accommodationsydney.com.au/images/NorthSydney14/view1.jpg

http://www.matthiasbook.de/travel/sydney2005/index.html

Sydney Conservatorium of Music: (nothing special, just showing some of Sydney's wierder but still nice buildings)
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1349/895659230_95566a42de.jpg?v=0
http://bp0.blogger.com/_9XLvy7fDUKU/RvNerBbvQKI/AAAAAAAADsw/sobb3Cn8AbM/s640/IMG_1243.jpg
Dont forget about the other skylines also in sydney as well, including:

North Sydney:
http://www.onsecondthought.co.uk/images/photos/SydneyTower-NW3.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/North_Sydney_office_buildings,_dusk,_from_North-East.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3217/2368459830_73e109726c.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/124646486_bad5a5de4a_b.jpg

Chatswood:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Chatswood_NSW_skyline.jpg/800px-Chatswood_NSW_skyline.jpg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7589/chatsqv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Chatswood%2C_New_South_Wales-Pedestrian_Mall.jpg/800px-Chatswood%2C_New_South_Wales-Pedestrian_Mall.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Chatswood%2C_New_South_Wales-Pedestrian_Mall.jpg)

Dont forget other CBDs as well such as St. Leonards, Parramatta, Bondi Junction, Hurtsville, Bankstown and Hornsby, as well as other smaller clusters which are developing as well, for example:
http://faxmentis.org/html/jpg/june23-1.jpg (http://faxmentis.org/html/kap01.html)
http://www.parracity.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/image/0006/9474/artists-impression-future.jpg

Oh yeah, the fireworks and the light show as well:
http://www.wf.net/%7Elcrump1/bridge25.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2082/2151510515_16683592be_o.jpg
http://www.painetworks.com/photos/gn/gn2769.JPG

And the beaches...
http://cache.virtualtourist.com/2782538-Bondi_Beach-Bondi_Beach.jpg
http://www.break-fresh-ground.com/photos/1421/1273/4/53934.jpg

To others such as restuarants...
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_6dKlThu8WMk/RrHN3uvOe7I/AAAAAAAAApQ/9ZKJGX0TYI8/Aria2.jpg
http://www.dje.com.au/NewFiles/projects/LEISURE/Syd_Operahouse_Restaurant/bennelong04.jpg
http://www.bestrestaurants.com.au/images/restaurants/NSW/sydneytower1/2.jpg
http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/02/20/summit19207_070220103545758_wideweb__300x425.jpg

And Katoomba right on the outskirts of Sydney, around 1 and a half hours drive from the city centre...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/195819407_9a0d7bb5b9.jpg?v=0


Don't forget Sydney's cultural diversity and the many multicultural festivitals as well as other festivities, as well as the numerous street performances and entertainments all over the CBD, making the city a very lively place.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/07/12/australia.bestcity/index.html
http://www.shelteroffshore.com/index.php/living/more/living_in_sydney_australia/
Sydney also often ranks higher than Toronto in quality of life.

Also, a few Sydney summers do get quite hot. I was on a trip last summer but I remember it was quite hot throughout January and February of 2007 where tempuratures did reach 30 degrees C and above. It even reached 44 C on one particular day that summer, but i guess its better than freezing at -30 C at Toronto haha.

ps. If a photo could not be displayed, right click on the red cross of where the photo was supposed to be, add it to your favourites and view it from there.

[Canada]

NO toronto is the most multicultural city in the world according to the united nations. plus i live here i can really see it. the differnece between canada and the states is that the states is to obsessed with patriotism,, and the citizens must be (in a way brain washed) patriots or else they would not be considered true americans. canada in the other hand dosent have that sense of patriotism, ours is more natural in nature, and one trully ends up loving our country. the canadian government also helps funds different cultural centres that help others discover, and understand thier past culture. this is why canada is trully unique to other countries. if u dont impose an image that you have to be a certain way it creates an opportunity to trully express yourself, and understand others. in a way, its a way to understand our past and look forward to the future. i myself i'm of first generation canadian, my moms an immigrant from germany and my dads an immigrant from spain. i know how to speak spanish, n french and i understand german. in elementry skool i took spanish and french classes, and i have a good understanding of both. so by nature i'm pretty multicultural. i loved my country for giving me the opportunity to learn these languages, and cultures. and i 'm looking forward now, when i was little i even went to a dutch speaking church, and sometimes i went to a spanish one. dont get me wrong but i love the states i have many family members their, and i trully thank the states for being our neighbor. i'm just pointing out the differences.

:D How mature are you? If T'ronto is the most multicultural city on earth, you do mean Singapore/Kuala Lumpur is less multicultured do ya'?? At least, look up on Wikipedia before making a statement.

IMO,

Sydney vs. Toronto

1.Skyline : Draw ( Loved the Sydney harbour bridge but the buildings there just never seemed right to me)
2.Cityscape : Toronto ( Better planned)
3.Traffic : Deff. Toronto ( Larger driveways, least traffic)
4.Cleanliness : Toronto (Fact.)
5.Subway : Sydney (Hands Down)
6.Shopping : Draw
7.Cost of living : Draw
8.Weather : Totally personal ( Sydney for me, moderate weather)
9.Tourist-friendliness : Sydney
10.Location : Toronto ( Ottawa, New York City, Niagara Falls, Montreal are easily reached through Toronto)

[namless dude]

deleted message

[torontonian]

Well tell me why Sydney get's over 16 million visitors a year and Toronto is closest to New York and only get's 10 million a year???-Explain that:rolleyes: And I'm gonna say (now that Sydney is winning) Toronto's skyline is looking rather dull with all this similar buildings....which are dwarfed by this ugly [not even skyscraper] building-which is the CN TOWER

your an idiot, toronto gets 10 million visitors and sydney gets 2.7 not 16 MILLION LIKE YOU CLAIMED. explain that and also explain why economic times rated torontos skyline 7th best and sydneys 12th best in the world?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Nice first post.

Since you're yelling at someone who hasn't been here in three years, it's debatable as to who the idiot is.

[torontonian]

Nice first post.

Since you're yelling at someone who hasn't been here in three years, it's debatable as to who the idiot is.

well it doesnt matter if the person hasnt been there in 3 years i just replied to something that was wrong.

[torontonian]

Toronto is a gross city. It is plagued by political corruption, disorganization, antiquated infrastructure, and general mismanagement.

The skyline is a complete joke, there is a few miles of disturbingly polluted "beach" which is absolutely disgusting. You would never swim in it, and nobody does. You can smell it before you see it, that's how bad it is. Of course there is a 60 year old highway separating the waterfront from the city, which "might" be torn down 30 years from now. None of this ever makes it into the skyline pics you see depicting the CN tower and surrounding buildings. The CN Tower which btw, is more TV antenna than "building".

Toronto is just like any other big city, only uglier, colder, and way less fun. Now that violent crime has equalled or exceeded other major cities, there really isn't much point in putting Toronto on a pedestal anymore.

WOW. you really need some help

[torontonian]

I was in Sydney last year and it is simply stunning. The harbor, opera house and the skyline is very colorful at night. In addition, the weather is a hundred times better.

well toronto officially has a better skyline than sydney. being colourful at night isnt everything. the weather in toronto is better too.

[torontonian]

Sydney's natural landscape is much nicer than TO's, but the city is a typical new-school ugly one filled with uninspired modern buildings. The opera house is a horror show. Yes, I said it.

That said, Toronto has torn down most of it's nice old buildings (at least, in the downtown core) to replace them with hideous skyscrapers. The Scotia Tower and a few other central edifices are a few rare exceptions in a very uninspired, ugly central skyline. To see Toronto's charm you really have to leave the core and travel to the 'real' neighborhoods, which are mostly low rise and never visible in those postcard skyline shots.

Really though, most of the buildings over five stories in Toronto are hideous. CN Tower included.

The new buildings slated for construction in Toronto are just as awful as many of the already existing ones. It makes me want to cry to think of how they will waste that huge stretch of land just north of the Gardiner with more towering glass condos.

All in all, there are only three tall buildings in the city of Toronto which could be compared to those in a city like NY or Chi: the King Eddie, 1 King W, and the building just west of 1 King W.

Both cities are ugly, but Toronto is uglier.

BL, BC

furthermore

well you say that most skyscrapers are ugly in toronto but you didnt mention one. sydney is worse.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Are you the mayor, and is today a slow mayoral day?

[torontonian]

Sydney has always been recognizable and famous; didn’t you know the Sydney Opera House is a pop culture phenomenon? The 2000 Olympics are gone now and Sydney will remain one of the most recognizable cities on earth, it was also the setting of one of the highest grossing animated films ever, Finding Nemo….and has Toronto been the setting for any highest grossing movies…or any movies at all, to my recollection...NO!

And did you know that work on Finding Nemo was started in 1995, which is 5 years before the 2000 Olympics…and they still chose Sydney. Also, has Toronto even hosted the Olympics, don’t think so! What does that tell YOU!

Look, who the hell gives a crap about how many skyscrapers Toronto has, Sydney will win hands down! Skyscrapers hardly add anything to a city, does Paris need skyscrapers to be good in anyway, and NO…the same applies to Sydney. I visited the city about a month ago and there are VERY few places on earth that have any more beauty than the city, Toronto is not one of them!! Who wants to visit Toronto anyway? It’s basically a paper cut out off New York City and the climate is really terrible, the skyline is full of copy cat buildings and hardly any of them are that noticeable.

Sydney has a beautiful temperate climate, and you can enjoy the city when it’s hot by visiting its world renowned beautiful beaches. And, um hello Sydney Opera House, everyone knows where that is, which makes the skyline unique and recognizable, the CN Tower isn’t that rare or uncommon, there is something almost identical in Johannesburg, Seattle and various other cities. Sydney has one of the world’s most spectacular settings, harbors, skylines, culture, arts, climate and entertainment; I would spend about 30 hours on a plane to get there if I had to. Also, global city wise, Sydney will become higher, as San Francisco and Sydney are predicted to become Alpha global cities in the next 10-20 years, while Toronto will be stuck with the “BETA” status….I wonder why?

Get over the city skylines and which one is larger thing, and think about which one has more qualities and admiration!

Plus, if I ever wanted to go to Canada, I’d go to Vancouver, a city which at least has some class and beauty.

SYDNEY, SYDNEY, SYDNEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, in this picture I’d just like to point out how ridiculous the skyline is, all of those buildings are the same, except smaller and then bigger for some, looks awful!

ye finding nemo was shot in sydney. it was mostly underwater and an animated film. toronto has had a huge amount of movies shot, way more than sydney. it also has international movies shot unlike sydney. the film production began in january 2000 for finding nemo. yes toronto hasnt held an olympics yet but that doesnt alone make sydney better. this is about skyscrapers so ye people would give a crap about the number of skyscrapers. your point about paris would make more sense if this was about quality of life but it isnt. toronto gets 10 million visitors while sydney gets 2.7 million so the question should rather be "who wants to visit sydney anyway"? the climate is alot better in toronto. in sydney its hot all year long and i mean HOT. toronto also has a great harbour, skyline, it is the 4th best city to experience culture and arts. as far as entertainment, toronto beats sydney anyday. where is your source that tells you sydney will be in alpha status in the next 10-20 years? its predicted that by 2028 melbourne is going to be the largest city in australia, i wonder why? toronto is already an alpha world city. it also beats sydney as far as business activity, political engagement, human capital, information exchange and cultural experience goes. toronto is a beautiful and classy city. plus the skyline has not yet been approved so dont go around bashing toronto for it.

[OmegaNYC]

Are you the mayor, and is today a slow mayoral day?

Gimmie, a "T"

Gimmie, a "R"

Gimmie, a "O'

Gimmie, a "L"

Gimmie, another "L"

What does it spell?

;)

[scumonkey]

How many guesses do I get?! :D:D:D

[ZippyTheChimp]

Well. he's not a very good one.

I still think he's the mayor, with nothing on the agenda today.

[Alonzo-ny]

Well he did say Toronto OFFICIALLY had a better skyline, all the mayors must have had a vote.

[Ed007Toronto]

Please kill this thread. Its an embarrassment.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Sorry Ed, he's your mayor.

[Ed007Toronto]

I'll make sure not to vote for him next time.

[torontonian]

I recently visited Vancouver, after having visited Toronto on a number of occasions in the past. And in my objective opinion, I think Vancouver is hands down a better city, for everything from surroundings to quality of life to cleanliness, to streetlife...basically everything. I was blown away at how close it came to perfection. And I think your assumption that it can never be a major city is very shortsighted indeed. I think it's only beginning a prolonged time of growth, and the Olympics in 2010 will doubtless help that process.

LOL maybe vancouver would beat Toronto in quality of life but not EVERYTHING like you said. BTW the winter olympics isnt much of a big deal. Calgary held the winter olympics yet is Canada's fifth largest city and doesnt really have a name for itself. toronto easily beats vancouver when it comes to culture, theatre and nightlife and much more. it is also a contender for the 2020 SUMMER(not winter) olympics games. its also a contender for the commonwealth and pan american games.

[torontonian]

an north american view. being someone who lives thousands of miles from both cities sydney is much more famous, i have never even considered toronto a famous city which i have always considered sydney, the CN tower isnt even that famous a landmark i doubt many people would know what you were talking about if you asked us europeans, where as the opera house everyone would know.

even torontonians dont consider the cn tower a famous landmark but when you ask someone about niagara falls they would know. the luminato festival of arts and creativity, the worldwide short film festival, toronto INTERNATIONAL film festival, the nxne music and film festival, the caribana(which attracts 1.3 million visitors), pride festival, international dragon boat festival are all held in toronto. toronto is a famous city. i also wanted to point out(since your scottish) that i have an internet friend from glasgow who visited toronto for a holiday. i didnt hear him say anything about a holiday in sydney.

[Alonzo-ny]

I wouldn't associate the Niagara Falls with Toronto.

i also wanted to point out(since your scottish) that i have an internet friend from glasgow who visited toronto for a holiday. i didnt hear him say anything about a holiday in sydney.

That settles it then.

[Gregory Tenenbaum]

The latter trip would be considerable more expensive, take longer etc.

[londonlawyer]

I don't think that either city has a great skyline, but overall Sydney is probably nicer. It has a MUCH nicer climate.

[Pdog]

Sydney has a better skyscraper setting than Toronto with the opera house and harbour bridge to add the setting. In the future we will need to watch the cluster to the north of the bridge where tech industries have been located. A few more talls of c.150m would massively add to the skyline.

Sydney on the whole is not an impressive city, the beaches are the only plus points but have thousands of British backpackers dominating them.

[MidtownGuy]

Wow... it's hard to say Sydney isn't an impressive city. It has delicious food, a stunning natural setting (magnificent harbor and close national parks) , good climate, extremely multicultural, some great architecture, and fun outgoing people.

[ablarc]

Sydney on the whole is not an impressive city, the beaches are the only plus points but have thousands of British backpackers dominating them.

Wow... it's hard to say Sydney isn't an impressive city. It has delicious food, a stunning natural setting (magnificent harbor and close national parks) , good climate, extremely multicultural, some great architecture, and fun outgoing people.
Now, which of you is speaking from personal experience?

[namless dude]

your an idiot, toronto gets 10 million visitors and sydney gets 2.7 not 16 MILLION LIKE YOU CLAIMED. explain that and also explain why economic times rated torontos skyline 7th best and sydneys 12th best in the world?

Well, I'm not familiar with tourist statistics but one thing you have to have in mind is that Toronto is a lot closer (and easier, I suppose) to the rest of the world than Sydney is, meaning that it's only normal for Sydney to have fewer visitors than Toronto if really so. Many people can't bear the 20 or more hours of sitting they will have to do to get to Sydney, let alone the higher price of travelling with longer distances. Also, it's good to note that Sydney constantly ranks at the top of many tourist polls. For instance, in the Conde Nast Traveller poll, Sydney ranks no.1 8 times in 10 years iirc.

To speak the truth, there's no proven "best" skyline; a skyline is ultimately just a visual landscape. Hence, the whole matter of "which skyline is better" is just based on opinions and preferences, not facts, like in the statement "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". As for the ratings you mentioned, the skylines were rated just according to the actual number of scrapers in the city, because like I said, there is no proven "best" skyline. True, Toronto currently has more scrapers than Sydney has but sometimes, it's quality over quantity. For instance, I'm sure most people would prefer a small but nice skyline like Seattle's over a sea of grey like Baghdad's. And with that said, Sydney still has a substantial number of scrapers and high rises, with hundreds in the CBD and more still in surrounding suburbs and areas, enough to form other suburban skylines at a number of places. There are various suburbs and satellite cities in Sydney that have CBD style density (I'm sure Toronto has them too), for instance, Parramatta is called as Sydney's "second CBD" and is about to get even denser with a number of scapers on the way, including trio towers at the to be built Civic Place which rises up to 230m (Parramatta's straight line distance from Sydney CBD is 20kms). However, I'm not trying to to say that it is a fact that Sydney has the better set of buildings, because that again is just personal tastes and opinions; likewise, you can't criticise people for complementing Sydney's skyline because, as I said, it's based on personal preferences, like yours are. As for them, they prefer Sydney's skyline over Toronto's because Sydney's skyline appears to have the better general appearance (the nicer buildings, the better balance, layout, setting, etc) for them, or, as one said, more colour at night. And finally... c`mon, a skyline is just an icon for a city after all! Other things like niceness, vibe, mood, places to go and see, etc count a lot more for a city than only the skyline.

[namless dude]

The weather in toronto is better too.

Wow, you must be joking! Unless if you're an eskimo, of course.

Take a look at the week coming up (it's winter in Sydney at the moment):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3816602651_4560449bbc_o.jpg

I don't think that's hot. It's warm. And very comfortable. Hmm... what's Toronto like in winter? I'd rather be in Sydney at summer where highs average in the high 20Cs than getting frostbite in Toronto's -30C winters.

;)

[namless dude]

toronto is already an alpha world city. it also beats sydney as far as business activity, political engagement, human capital, information exchange and cultural experience goes.

http://www.diserio.com/gawc-world-cities.html

Whoops, Sydney above Toronto as a world city.

toronto is a beautiful and classy city.

Sydney is a beautiful and classy city.

plus the skyline has not yet been approved so dont go around bashing toronto for it.

I never knew landscapes need to be approved. Hey, why do they need approving? Oh, who's responsible for approving them? Is it you?

[namless dude]

even torontonians dont consider the cn tower a famous landmark but when you ask someone about niagara falls they would know.

Like the Blue Mountains to Sydney. And like Alonzo-ny said, I wouldn't associate those with cities.

the luminato festival of arts and creativity, the worldwide short film festival, toronto INTERNATIONAL film festival, the nxne music and film festival, the caribana(which attracts 1.3 million visitors), pride festival, international dragon boat festival are all held in toronto. toronto is a famous city.

Sydney Film Festival, Mardi Gras pride parade, Australian INTERNATIONAL Motor Show, Greek Festival of Sydney, Royal Easter Show, etc etc are all in Sydney. See, all those festivals you listed aren't excactly unique to Toronto. The ones I listed aren't neccesarily unique to Sydney too. They're just "minor" festivals. Every world city has their own set of them. Both cities are famous. However, Sydney has the things that make it stand out. It has the Opera House, Harbour Bridge and the harbour itself, and it's also hosted major world events such as the Olympics and World Youth Day in which the city has proven itself.

i also wanted to point out(since your scottish) that i have an internet friend from glasgow who visited toronto for a holiday. i didnt hear him say anything about a holiday in sydney

i also wanted to point out (since your torontonian) that i have eight hundred and thirty two internet friends from all over the world who visited sydney for a holiday. i didnt hear them say anything about a holiday in toronto

:D

[torontonian]

Are you the mayor, and is today a slow mayoral day?
ye that makes a lot of sense. shows who the real idiot is.

[torontonian]

Gimmie, a "T"

Gimmie, a "R"

Gimmie, a "O'

Gimmie, a "L"

Gimmie, another "L"

What does it spell?

;)
pls explain to me how im a troll? all i did was post replies to comments i had something to say about.

[torontonian]

Well he did say Toronto OFFICIALLY had a better skyline, all the mayors must have had a vote.

http://necromanc.blogspot.com/2006/03/top-18-skylines-in-world.html

[torontonian]

Wow, you must be joking! Unless if you're an eskimo, of course.

Take a look at the week coming up (it's winter in Sydney at the moment):
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3816602651_4560449bbc_o.jpg

I don't think that's hot. It's warm. And very comfortable. Hmm... what's Toronto like in winter? I'd rather be in Sydney at summer where highs average in the high 20Cs than getting frostbite in Toronto's -30C winters.

;)
what i was trying to say came out wrong. toronto summers have nice hot weather and in winter its cold like its supposed to be but in sydney its hot all year long and sometimes with 45 or close to 50 degree temp. which i would personally not choose over cold weather. its all about what weather suits you, some people like summers and winters while others cant stand winters and live in cities with no winter.

[torontonian]

http://www.diserio.com/gawc-world-cities.html

Whoops, Sydney above Toronto as a world city.



Sydney is a beautiful and classy city.



I never knew landscapes need to be approved. Hey, why do they need approving? Oh, who's responsible for approving them? Is it you?

ok i dont hate sydney so you need to stop assuming that i do hate it. i never said sydney isnt a beautiful and classy city and im aware that sydney is higher on the alpha world cities list. when i said all that stuff about toronto i was replying to someone who said toronto is a beta city with no class or beauty. and i was talking about torontos future skyline not landscape. i said that those buildings havent been built yet. its just a preview. i dont mean to be rude but next time read the message im replying to.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Did I call you an idiot, or were you replying to someone else?

[torontonian]

Did I call you an idiot, or were you replying to someone else?
you called me an idiot indirectly. anyways how about we just end this. it all started by just one comment i made to someone about tourism and its just dumb.

[ablarc]

*yawn*

Another one of these versus-es ?

Vers-i ?

[Merry]

^ Yes, I agree.


... but in sydney its hot all year long and sometimes with 45 or close to 50 degree temp. which i would personally not choose over cold weather.

Where did you get this from :rolleyes:?

I would define hot as anything above 30 degrees Celsius, which it certainly is not in Sydney "all year long". Sydney rarely experiences temperatures over 40 degrees Celsius in summer.

http://www.weatherzone.com.au/climate/station.jsp

[torontonian]

:D How mature are you? If T'ronto is the most multicultural city on earth, you do mean Singapore/Kuala Lumpur is less multicultured do ya'?? At least, look up on Wikipedia before making a statement.

IMO,

Sydney vs. Toronto

1.Skyline : Draw ( Loved the Sydney harbour bridge but the buildings there just never seemed right to me)
2.Cityscape : Toronto ( Better planned)
3.Traffic : Deff. Toronto ( Larger driveways, least traffic)
4.Cleanliness : Toronto (Fact.)
5.Subway : Sydney (Hands Down)
6.Shopping : Draw
7.Cost of living : Draw
8.Weather : Totally personal ( Sydney for me, moderate weather)
9.Tourist-friendliness : Sydney
10.Location : Toronto ( Ottawa, New York City, Niagara Falls, Montreal are easily reached through Toronto)
skyline: toronto
cityscape: toronto
roads: toronto
cleanliness: toronto
subway: toronto(subway in TO is ranked in the top 50, sydney didnt even make that list)
cost of living: sydney(more affordable)
tourists friendliness: sydney
location: toronto
quality of life: sydney

[ZippyTheChimp]

This thread serves no useful purpose.

Closed.