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October 7th, 2003, 01:08 PM

October 7th, 2003, 02:18 PM
The Red Sox, thanks to their smart costumes.

Associated Press

The red makes their limbs look superhuman.

October 7th, 2003, 03:57 PM
Im a Met fan until October, this is the reason Im also a Cardinal fan as they do make it often enough. I am a Yankee hater.

And btw wasnt last-night's game great? Go Boston!

October 7th, 2003, 04:07 PM
What is this, the Wired Boston Forum? Blasphemy!

http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/80/031_5172.jpg http://www.wirednewyork.com/landmarks/liberty/images/statue_of_liberty_s.jpg http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/photo/photogallery/anniversary/1954_2003/03.jpg http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/nyy/images/ballpark/ballpark_header.jpg


The Bambino (post-curse)

October 7th, 2003, 04:15 PM

October 7th, 2003, 05:16 PM

October 7th, 2003, 08:53 PM
I'm going for the BoSox. I voted that I'm a Mets fan and I want to see a Cubbies vs. BoSox World Series. Who will end their curse first? Which curse is the strongest?

October 8th, 2003, 02:12 AM
October 8, 2003

Dream Teams

The Boston Red Sox' nail-biting victory over the Oakland Athletics on Monday night moves professional baseball one step closer to the Dream Series: the Red Sox versus the Chicago Cubs. With all due respect to our New York readership — Yankee fans among them — to George Steinbrenner and to the Yankees themselves, we find it hard to resist the emotional tug and symmetrical possibilities of a series between teams that seem to have been put on earth to tantalize and then crush their zealous fans. Together they account for 180 years of futility. The Cubs have not won a World Series since 1908. The Red Sox have not won one since 1918, a little more than a year before they shipped Babe Ruth to the Yankees, a famously bizarre transaction that ushered in the era of Yankee domination.

For the matchup to occur, each team must jump one more hurdle. For Chicago, it is the Florida Marlins, a team for which it is hard to muster much enthusiasm if you're a baseball traditionalist. The Marlins, a major league team only since 1993, were essentially an artificial construct. The team's original owner, Wayne Huizenga, dismantled it after it won a championship in 1997 because the team was too expensive, then sold it in 1999. Improbably, the team finds itself knocking on the door again with a cast of largely low-paid youngsters.

For the Red Sox, the obstacles are twofold. One is the Yankees, whose lineup and pitching staff are rivaled only by the Cubs'. The other is the Red Sox, plagued by demons that ruin things whenever the team comes close. The Red Sox have reached the playoffs or the Series nine times since that triumph in 1918, and have failed every time. The Yankees tend to close things out, advancing to the World Series five times in the last seven years and winning four of them. Cold reality favors the Yankees; warm sentiment, which is at the heart of baseball and to which we are always susceptible, favors one or the other of baseball's most reliable losers.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

October 8th, 2003, 02:42 AM
October 8, 2003

Bloomberg Trades His Sox for the Local Pinstripes


He made his first big fielding error during the mayoral campaign two years ago, when he bobbled a tricky one-hopper about whether he liked the Yankees or the Mets.

"I grew up in Boston," Michael R. Bloomberg replied, as his gleeful opponents ran for extra bases.

Then there was the easy pop-up that bounced out of his glove — his mispronunciation of the name of the Yankees' manager, Joe Torre, at a New York University graduation ceremony in May. The tabloids blamed "the Boston-bred" mayor's accent, while noting, suspiciously, that he "grew up a Red Sox fan."

Determined to prevent the ball from rolling through his legs again, à la Bill Buckner, Mr. Bloomberg is taking no chances as he warms up for the American League Championship Series between the Yankees and the Boston Red Sox.

"I'm rooting for the Yankees, make no mistake about that," the mayor declared yesterday. "This team's going to go all the way."

In politics, where perception is as important as reality, candidates can be undone over trivial issues that suddenly gain traction in the shifting sands of public opinion. (Hillary Rodham Clinton is still trying to live down a gaffe from her Senate race in 2000, when she suddenly declared her love for the Yankees although she had rooted for her hometown Chicago Cubs all her life.)

During a public appearance in Manhattan, Mr. Bloomberg took up the Louisville Slugger that his predecessor, Rudolph W. Giuliani seemed to heft so easily, and gamely swung away. "The Yankees are going to win," he asserted, pledging to be at Yankee Stadium tomorrow for the second game of the championship series, though he said he would not be able to attend tonight's opener.

Later, in a prepared statement that referred to Babe Ruth, Mr. Bloomberg laid it on thick.

"I share a bond with Yankees past and present who have left Boston to find success in the greatest city in the world," he said.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

October 8th, 2003, 02:58 AM
PR- 278-03
October 7, 2003


Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Boston Mayor Thomas M. Menino today announced a “friendly wager” on the New York Yankees-Boston Red Sox American League Championship Series. The series gets underway at Yankee Stadium in the Bronx at 8:00 pm on Wednesday night.

“I share a bond with Yankees past and present who have left Boston to find success in the greatest city in the world, which will make me especially proud to watch the Bombers send the boys from Beantown home empty-handed,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “Because New York’s generosity is matched only by its confidence, I am pleased to offer a veritable feast of New York cuisine that the people of Boston will never get to eat:

A quart of Manhattan clam chowder from Lundy Brothers in Sheepshead Bay;

A large pizza from Denino’s in Port Richmond;

A dozen dumplings from Joe’s Shanghai in Chinatown;

A dozen bagels from Slim’s in Bayside;

An order of Bistec Encebollado (steak with onions) from Jimmy’s Bronx Café.
“And just to remind you of whence your troubles began, a dozen ‘Baby Ruth’ bars to commemorate the curse of the Bambino,” said Mayor Bloomberg.

“This year, and particularly, this past week, the Red Sox have given the fans of Boston and New England hours of excitement and drama,” said Mayor Menino. “Tomorrow, a new day dawns as the likes of Ramirez, Ortiz, Millar, Mueller, and Nomar slug their way to our inevitable victory. If the Super Bowl celebration of 2002 was a tremendous memory, just wait as Martinez, Lowe and Wakefield bring a World Series championship to Boston.

“I'm offering Boston’s best to Mayor Bloomberg in the knowledge that as the victor, we'll take the spoils (what, no brisket?). We're putting a Legal Seafoods clambake for four on the table with lobster, steamers, linguica and REAL clam chowder. And after the Red Sox win it all, Mayor Bloomberg will have a standing invitation to come home to Boston, the Hub of the universe, and enjoy our legendary hospitality,” concluded Mayor Menino.


Edward Skyler / Jordan Barowitz (212) 788-2958

Seth Gitell (City of Boston) (617) 635-4461

October 8th, 2003, 03:57 PM
October 8, 2003

Unfinished Business for Yankees and Red Sox


Boston sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees in 1920, and the rest is history. The Yankees have since won 26 World Series championships and the Red Sox none.

The Boston Red Sox are not used to success, so there was not much sleeping on their red-eye flight from California on Monday night. After holding on for a frantic one-run victory to eliminate the Oakland Athletics from the playoffs, the Red Sox joy ride touched down in Newark at 7:01 a.m. yesterday. The players arrived at their Midtown hotel at 8:30 and took buses to Yankee Stadium at 3 p.m., seeming more buoyant than weary.

"That's the fun thing about this clubhouse," first baseman Kevin Millar said. "We've got a bunch of idiots in here who go out and play baseball. I don't think anything fazes us."

The Red Sox were perceptive enough to acknowledge the magnitude of the American League Championship Series against the Yankees beginning tonight. There is more than a World Series berth at stake. There is the weight of history, which shifted seismically in the Yankees' favor after the Red Sox sold them Babe Ruth in 1920.

For the Yankees and their hard-driving principal owner, George Steinbrenner, losing to the Red Sox would be catastrophic. For the Red Sox and their fatalistic fans, beating the Yankees would be unthinkably delicious. The participants know it.

"Whether they admit it or not, I think everybody in this clubhouse kind of wanted to go through the Yankees if we're going to get to the World Series," Red Sox General Manager Theo Epstein said. "It's appropriate. We've battled them in some really tough games all year, and there's some unfinished business. I think both teams probably feel that way.

"If you're going to do it, you might as well do it right. It seemed that we're perhaps destined to face each other here in the A.L.C.S. Let's do it."

The Yankees and the Red Sox have brought out the best in each other for months. Of their 19 regular-season meetings, the Yankees won 10, and they finished six games ahead of Boston in the A.L. East. The Red Sox scored more runs, 109 to 94, and the final game of the series was tied in the seventh inning before the Yankees won.

"If you wanted to come to a postseason game in the middle of June, you came to a Red Sox-Yankees game, whether it's at the Stadium here or at Fenway Park," Mike Mussina, who will start Game 1 for the Yankees, said. "If you wanted to see it without it being October, that's what you did. You just magnify it 10 times, and that's what you're going to have. This is what I think a lot of people wanted to see."

The Red Sox used their two best starting pitchers, Pedro Martínez and Derek Lowe, in Game 5 of their division series in Oakland. They will start the knuckleballer Tim Wakefield tonight, with Lowe pitching Game 2 against Andy Pettitte tomorrow night. Roger Clemens will face Martínez in Game 3 on Saturday at Fenway Park, where Clemens, the former Red Sox ace, has 100 career victories.

Clemens pitched for the Red Sox for 13 years and knows that Boston has not won a championship since 1918. The Yankees have not won since 2000, which is an eternity to Steinbrenner.

"I think our fans are missing it, too," Clemens said. "They have high expectations for our team, how we've spoiled them over the years and spoiled ourselves. I don't think you could ask for anything more."

The winner of this four-of-seven-game series will face the winner of the National League Championship Series between the Chicago Cubs and the Florida Marlins. But there is a sense among some players that the real action is here, that this series will determine the best team in the majors.

"Whoever wins this series is going to win the World Series, there's no doubt about it," Red Sox second baseman Todd Walker said. "We're the two best teams in baseball, I think."

Both teams come into the series with a three-game winning streak. The Yankees lost the first game of their division series against Minnesota before winning three in a row, and Boston lost its first two games against Oakland before coming back. The Red Sox, the team with a history of postseason stumbles, seized on Oakland's base-running blunders to take control of the series.

"Boston should have never really been in it, to be honest," said David Wells, who will start Game 4 against John Burkett of the Red Sox. "But Oakland got a little careless at Fenway, and that's what really fired them up. When you get an opportunity like that, you take advantage of it. To me, if you go out and play good baseball, you're going to win."

The Yankees, who beat the Red Sox in the 1999 A.L.C.S., four games to one, are more likely to play cleaner games than the A's, who have lost in the first round of the playoffs four years in a row. But the Red Sox plan to be similarly opportunistic if the Yankees let them.

"We've always stood toe to toe with them," Boston catcher Jason Varitek said. "A break here or a break there in the last A.L.C.S. could have turned those games completely around. Who gets the breaks and takes advantage of them most is who's going to win."

The Yankees won four games against the Red Sox this season while scoring four or fewer runs. Boston beat the Yankees by scores of 10-3, 10-2, 9-3 and 11-0.

Asked if his team has to outslug the Red Sox to win, Jason Giambi said, "I don't want to try."

The Red Sox set a major league record for slugging percentage, .491, 2 percentage points better than the 1927 Yankees of Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig. They exceeded the expectations of Epstein, who tried to stock the lineup with hitters who got on base regularly and were threats to hit for extra bases.

"I don't think anyone saw that kind of home run and extra-base pop coming out of this team," Epstein said. "But we wanted tough outs, professional at-bats, one through nine. We were fortunate to stay healthy, and the guys really fed off each other and fed off the strength of the lineup to put up great years. I think when we're having tough, quality at-bats early in the game, that's when we know we're going to put up some runs."

Pettitte beat the Red Sox three times this season, but in his last start against them, he gave up eight runs and did not escape the third inning. He said he would not think much about his good starts or his bad one, focusing more on how the Red Sox have hit recently, and how he has pitched. After the Yankees dominated the Twins in the division series, the pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre said, that is probably wise.

"If they're on their game," Stottlemyre said, referring to the Yankees' starters, "they're basically like any other team that can be held down. But if the pitcher's not on his game, they can destroy you in a short period of time. That's the type of club they have."

That is essentially how the Yankees see it: if they pitch to their abilities, they believe they will win. If they do not, the Red Sox will punish them. Either way, the fans will go wild.

"There's no other opponent for the Red Sox or the Yankees that could take this to a higher level," Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman said. "This is the greatest rivalry in sports, period."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

Freedom Tower
October 8th, 2003, 05:07 PM
GO YANKEES!!! Jasonik do you really wanna bet 31 bucks on the Boston Red Socks? They're cursed, and will forever stay that way, I hope.

October 8th, 2003, 08:44 PM
They're cursed .... I hope.

"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there."
-Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

Freedom Tower
October 9th, 2003, 05:07 PM
Wow, now I'm confused. I mean there is a curse, and I just hope the Red Sox don't end the curse by winning this year. Am I missing something? Why don't I know where I'm going? Hey Yogi can you explain? Hehe.

October 9th, 2003, 06:11 PM
Having grown up in Boston you have to fully understand the curse to properly predict it. The curse is not just that the Sox will lose, it is their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory that counts. Game 6 of the WS against the Mets is the ultimate example.

Therefore I predict they will beat the Yankees sending Boston into a euphoria which will last until game 7 of the WS where they will manage to blow a lead to the Cubs in the 9th through a series of errors, wild pitches, and general gagging. Red Sox fans must be brought to the very brink of victory before having the rug pulled out from under them.

That is the curse.

October 10th, 2003, 11:59 AM
As a lifelong Yankee fan, it would sting less to lose the World Series to any National League team, than to lose the A.L. pennant to the hated Red Sox.

October 10th, 2003, 12:00 PM
In a pickle between political, home bases
Despite declaration, some doubt mayor's allegiance to Yanks

By Tatsha Robertson, Globe Staff, 10/10/2003

NEW YORK -- Mayor Michael Bloomberg has been on the defensive lately. He has had to prove himself over and over again this week, but not because of fickle polls or rising housing costs in Queens. The issue is far more intense: baseball.

As New York and Boston face off in the American League Championship Series this week, New Yorkers increasingly want to know where the true loyalties of the Medford native lie. Is he a fan of their pinstriped players, or is he really a Red Sox fan, as some suspect?

"He is a Yankees fan," a Bloomberg spokesman said assuredly yesterday. "I don't know why everyone wants to know."

Bloomberg has worked hard to dispel rumors that in his heart he roots for the Red Sox. Earlier this week, he made " a friendly wager" with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino.

Confident of victory, Menino said win or lose, the Medford boy will have a standing invitation to come home. He will also send the New York mayor a clambake for four.

Bloomberg said in a statement that if the Yankees lose, he will send Menino a quart of Manhattan clam chowder, and dumplings, pizza, and bagels from local eateries.

"And just to remind you of whence your troubles began, a dozen Baby Ruth bars to commemorate the Curse of the Bambino," Bloomberg added. (Actually, the candy was not named after the famous ball player, but after Baby Ruth Cleveland, the first child of President Grover Cleveland.)

As for his migration from the Boston area to New York, the billionaire mayor had this to say: "I share a bond with Yankees past and present who have left Boston to find success in the greatest city of the world, which will make me especially proud to watch the Bombers send the boys from Beantown home empty-handed."

Not one to be outdone, Menino said yesterday during a telephone interview that Bloomberg's own 94-year-old mother, a Medford resident, is a Red Sox fan.

Menino said he would not be surprised if Bloomberg's mother calls her son and says, "Now you be a good boy and root for the hometown boys. "

Bloomberg must have switched his loyalties quite recently. He did not sound like a Yankees fan during his 2001 campaign when a New York Times columnist asked if he were a Yankees or New York Mets fan. "I grew up in Boston. I will leave it that way. I'm a very loyal guy," he said then.

Not everyone is convinced that Bloomberg has shaken his affection for the Red Sox.

"Only Michael knows," said Menino.

And, for all the big talk in New York streets about clobbering the Red Sox, and all the talk about a hex lingering over Fenway Park, New Yorkers admit they are a bit wary of anyone coming from Boston, whether a player or a mayor.

"I don't know. He should be rooting for New York," said Angel Mendez, 28. "He came up through [former mayor Rudolph] Giuliani, and Giuliani was a fan."

Mendez admits that the Red Sox are a good team and that, if not for the supposed curse, maybe he would be worried.

The Red Sox has not won a World Series since 1918, a year before the team's owner sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees, who have gone on to win the World Series 26 times since then.

"There is a curse. They always play great, but there is always something off about it. They break down in the end," said Mendez.

JoAnn McCauley of Brooklyn wants to give the city's mayor the benefit of the doubt. "He's a Mets fan," McCauley said.

"The Yankees will win in six. I'm positive," she said. "We hate [the Red Sox]. We don't always beat them, though. I think the rivalry is an East Coast thing. They are really even most of the time, which makes the rivalry so good. The games are always great games, the intensity of the rivalry. But we are better. . . . Our fans are more intense, and you can't surpass the bleacher bums."

Then, she went back to the so-called curse. "Shame on you for selling him."

© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.

October 10th, 2003, 04:56 PM
The Red Sox have a decent chance of winning but getting by the Yankees will not be easy.

Freedom Tower
October 11th, 2003, 12:47 AM
JMGarcia is that really what the curse is? I could have sworn it was just that the Red Sox would not win the world series again. Oh well, I guess you're right. I didn't know too much about it, only that Babe Ruth stops them from winning.

October 12th, 2003, 06:04 PM

Red Sox ace Pedro Martinez threw Yankees coach Don Zimmer to the ground during an altercation in yesterday's playoff game. Zimmer, who had charged Martinez, was taken to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center after the game for a checkup. (Newsday Photo*/*Paul J. Bereswill)

Zimmer plenty charged-up
By John Powers, Globe Staff, 10/12/2003

After he'd showered yesterday, the Yankees' septuagenarian contendah sat in his briefs in front of his locker, a bit bewildered by the crowd of questioners who were standing between him and his postgame chow.

"I have nothing to say, nothing," Don Zimmer declared, after he'd taken an enraged run at Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez during the fourth-inning fracas between the clubs. "We won the game. That's all that counts."

Though Zimmer's playing days are long behind him, he was as eager to take on Martinez as if the Sox ace had drilled him with the same pitch that buzzed right fielder Karim Garcia. "You know, he's dead serious," said Roger Clemens, before the 72-year-old Zimmer was taken to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center to be checked out. "Even though he can't play or get it done, he's serious."

After being badly beaned twice, Zimmer takes head-hunting personally. "The fact that he was hit in the head," mused Yankee pitching coach Mel Stottlemyre, "he gets pretty upset because he'd been on the other end of that."

In 1953, playing in the minors for St. Paul, Zimmer spent 13 days in a coma after being hit by a fastball. Then, playing for the Dodgers in 1956, Zimmer was drilled in the face by the Cubs' Hal Jeffcoat and suffered a fractured cheekbone and a damaged eye, which required him to wear blindfolds for six weeks and special glasses for six more and spelled the beginning of the end of what had been a promising career. "Yeah, I think I could have been somebody," Zimmer said two decades later.

So Zimmer was furious after Martinez hit Garcia in the top of the fourth, shouting at the righthander from the dugout steps. Then, when the benches emptied in the bottom of the inning after Clemens's high fastball to Manny Ramirez, Zimmer, with his hands raised, made a bull-like charge at the startled Martinez, before the pitcher grabbed him and shoved him to the ground.

Of all the bizarre moments that have happened at the old brick ballyard in the Fens, this was unique -- a former Red Sox manager taking a run at the franchise jewel in what was perhaps the most lopsided mismatch in baseball history. "I wouldn't have hit him," Martinez said later. "I could never do it."

For a moment, the encounter seemed ludicrous, almost humorous. Someone asked Sox general manager Theo Epstein whether he'd considered sending Johnny Pesky, the club's 84-year-old hitting instructor, out to take on Zimmer in a more age-appropriate matchup. "Got to admit, the thought crossed my mind," joked Epstein.

Still, the sight of Zimmer lying stunned on the diamond was sobering to the Yankees, who feared that their beloved Buddha might be badly injured. "I saw a bald head on the ground," said Clemens. "We weren't sure if it was Zimm or Boomer [pitcher David Wells]. I was like, `Oh, my gosh,' and he wasn't getting up."

The tumble seemed to stun Zimmer. "He didn't look too good, to be honest," said Stottlemyre. "I thought maybe he had the wind knocked out of him."

Zimmer stayed on the bench for the remainder of the game, though, with a small adhesive strip across his nose and showed no ill effects later. "Are you OK?" he was asked as he reached for his shoes. "I'm good enough to get dressed," Zimmer replied. "I'm going to eat dinner -- somewhere."

After heading for the trainer's room to finish dressing, Zimmer was accompanied by a cordon of half a dozen security guards and medical attendants as he walked from the visiting clubhouse behind third base to an exit past the home clubhouse on the first base side. There, he was strapped onto a wheeled stretcher and loaded onto an ambulance, but he was expected to be back in uniform for tonight's game.

"That's Zimm," said Clemens. "He's got more fire than half those guys in the dugout, and that's why I love him."

© Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company.


By Losing Composure, Red Sox Miss the Point
The Boston Globe

LEASE, we don't need any more cowboys. We don't need any 72-year-old vigilantes rushing from the Yankee dugout, trying to sucker-punch Pedro Martínez. We don't need a Fenway Park employee — who also happens to be a New Hampshire schoolteacher, for goodness' sake — getting into a brawl with pitchers in the Yankee bullpen.

We do need some accountability from Tim McClelland, the umpire crew chief, who has already made two controversial judgment calls in the past week.

And, oh by the way, we'd like the four-of-seven American League Championship Series to return, no gloves and canvas necessary.

The Red Sox lost Game 3 yesterday, 4-3. They have now lost the home-field advantage they secured in the Bronx. They trail the Yankees, two games to one.

Unfortunately, the details of the series became an aside after a ridiculous fourth inning. Martínez took the mound with his team tied with the Yankees at 2-2. He gave up a walk, a single and a double. Now trailing, 4-2, he either intentionally hit Karim Garcia with a pitch that was whistling toward his head or he let a fastball slip away from him.

The Red Sox' position was that it slipped. The Yankees' position was that it was intentional. After that, an excess of pride, testosterone, tradition and stupidity took over. Garcia yelled at Martínez and took Todd Walker out hard at second base because that's the way it goes in baseball.

There was some staring and pushing and pointing.

In the bottom of the fourth, Roger Clemens pitched high and inside to Manny Ramirez — the pitch didn't come close to buzzing him — and that's when Don (Dim and Dimmer) Zimmer got his chance at the spotlight.

As the benches and bullpens were emptying, Zimmer decided that he wanted to take out Martínez. He charged him and threw a punch.

Martínez stepped aside like a bullfighter, put two open palms on Zimmer's upper body, and let him tumble to the ground. When the umpires finally got "control" of the game, Zimmer remained in the dugout. He was taken to Beth Israel last night for observation before being released.

•* Watching the entire scene, you had to ask yourself how, time after time, a sport manages to smack itself in the face. A Red Sox player, either Ramirez or Martínez, should have been ejected. Neither was. Zimmer should certainly have been ejected. He wasn't.


McClelland refused to answer that after the game. A statement revealed that he felt the umpires' actions "spoke for themselves" and he had nothing else to say.

In three games, McClelland has already overruled a member of his crew on a home run and mysteriously decided that no ejections were warranted for an attack on the field.

That the attack came from a bench coach in his 70's who can be alternately charming and fiery is not the point. A message was not sent immediately, although there is a good chance it will come later. From someone else.

Sandy Alderson, baseball's vice president for operations, said he was happy with the umpires' performance. But when asked about suspensions and fines, he said it was not unprecedented for baseball to hand out both even if a game hasn't had any ejections.

In other words, a key member of the Red Sox — either Martínez or Ramirez — could be fined, or even worse, suspended during this series.


We no longer have to ask where all the cowboys have gone. There are too many of them. Players and fans have taken the rivalry too far, believing that some kind of war is going on. It isn't. Anti-Yankee emotion is fantastic, but emotion isn't how you're going to beat them. Anaheim didn't do it that way last year and Arizona didn't do it in 2001.

It's hard to criticize fans for aggressive behavior when umpires don't properly handle the aggressiveness on the field, but one uniformed employee went too far in the ninth. A man named Paul Williams from Derry, N.H., was assigned to the Yankee bullpen as a groundskeeper. He wound up tussling with the Yankees and being escorted away by the police, who are looking into accusations, by the Red Sox, that he was beaten by Yankee players.

"I think when this series began," Manager Grady Little said afterward, "everyone knew it was going to be quite a battle. It was going to be very emotional. A lot of intensity. But I think we've upgraded it from a battle to a war."

•* Well, as long as the battle involves playing small ball every once in a while. As long as it involves hit-and-runs to stay out of double plays. The Red Sox are down in this series with John Burkett going against David Wells tonight.

Emotion and bravado and Yankee chants sound and look good for the cameras. But that has nothing to do with the point, which is trying to win three more games.

Copyright 2003*The New York Times Company

October 12th, 2003, 07:17 PM
Pedro was overheard saying to his manager, "He scared the hell out of me. I thought it was Babe Ruth."

That pitch to Ramirez was nowhere near him. A few feet down it would have been a strike. He went up there expecting to get buzzed. If they show a replay, look at him in the box - he doesn't dig in. He was ready to bail out.

I watched the game with friends at a bar in Bayside, on Bell Blvd. Before the game, the bartender, a big sports gambler, said there was a line on the probability of a fight during the game (20 to 1 I think), so he put $10 on it. During the melee, I remembered and asked him what defines a fight. He said any agressive contact, so Zim won this guy $200.

Jasonik, instead of wasting time here, you should be out looking for that cursed piano. :D

October 12th, 2003, 07:52 PM
LOL :lol:

Now where did I put my scuba gear...

October 12th, 2003, 08:47 PM
http://members.sparedollar.com/cavaliercards/10-04-200303(4).jpg (http://www.mindspring.com/~modernone/si42098.JPG)

Doesn't the Sports Illustrated cover have a curse? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/cover/2002/jinx/main/)

Clemens May Join Cy Young
06.26.03 By: Chris Lynch

Roger Clemens wanting to go into the Hall of Fame with a Yankees’ cap may have the support of a group of people you may not expect – the owners of the Boston Red Sox.

When Roger Clemens was close to getting his 300th win and 4,000th strike-out – all the talk around Fenway Park was whether Roger deserved to have his number retired by the ball club. No Red Sox player has worn number 21 since Clemens left town to play for a contender and to be closer to his family by playing in Toronto.

Public sentiment was pretty strong behind the idea of adding number 21 to the retired numbers on the right field façade at Fenway Park. However, there were still a vocal minority who pretty much loathe Clemens who couldn’t care if Roger found the cure for cancer – he’s still a traitor to them.

The owners of the Red Sox were in a no win situation.

Then Roger got his 300th win and his 4,000th strike-out.

Then Roger opened his mouth and complained that he would not go to the Hall of Fame unless his plaque had a Yankee cap.

The owners of the Red Sox heaved a huge sigh of relief.

Currently there are only five numbers retired by the Sox – Joe Cronin’s #4, Ted Williams #9, Bobby Doerr’s #1, Carl Yastrzemski’s #8 and Carlton Fisk’s #27. (Plus Jackie Robinson’s #42 which has been retired by all teams.)

The Red Sox official policy on retiring uniform numbers is based on the following criteria:

· Election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame
· At least 10 years played with the Red Sox and
· Finish his career with the club

Based upon this criteria great players like Cy Young and Smokey Joe Wood don’t qualify to have their numbers retired by the team.

Technically Carlton Fisk didn’t qualify to have his number retired by the team either because he retired as a member of the Chicago White Sox. However, Carlton decided to have a Red Sox cap on his plaque and ownership decided that was his official last act in baseball and he did it as a member of the Red Sox.

Now if Roger decides that his cap must have a big NY on it – then the Boston ownership have their way out. They have their justification for not putting Clemens’ number on that wall.

Hey – they didn’t make an exception for Cy Young.

Roger Clemens probably will not have his number retired by the Yankees because he honestly hasn’t accomplished Hall of Fame numbers in the Bronx.

That means that Clemens will probably go down as the best pitcher in history not to have his number retired by any team he’s played on.

Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

Please send any thoughts or comments to of4dad@hotmail.com[/i]


BTW my 'Yankees Suck' t-shirt has 21 on the back.

October 12th, 2003, 08:53 PM
October 12, 2003


Zimmer Was Provoked by Past and Present



DON ZIMMER'S disgust with Pedro Martínez goes back to July 7, if not before, when the Red Sox right-hander's inside pitches sent both Alfonso Soriano and Derek Jeter to a New York hospital, each with what X-rays showed to be a bruised hand — Soriano's left, Jeter's right.

Fortunately for the Yankees, the X-rays were negative and both Jeter and Soriano soon returned to the lineup, but Zimmer, the Yankees' 72-year-old bench coach, and the other Yankees didn't forget. Neither did Randy Levine, the Yankees' president.

With Martínez starting against Roger Clemens in yesterday's Game 3 of the American League Championship Series, the Yankees knew an incendiary situation could develop. In a conversation with Bob DuPuy of the commissioner's office earlier in the week, Levine discussed the possibility of an incident developing from two fastball pitchers who like to throw inside.

"We went through this," Levine said in the Yankee clubhouse after yesterday's 4-3 victory. "He assured me they were on it. Everybody understood that this was possible."

In the fourth inning, possibility turned into reality. Martínez's fastball buzzed Karim Garcia, the Yankees' right fielder. Garcia shouted at Martínez but soon cooled down. In the bottom of the fourth, Manny Ramirez, apparently expecting Clemens to pitch inside in retaliation, quickly backed away from a fastball that was much more high than inside.

Ramirez, holding his bat, took a few roundabout steps toward Clemens, prompting both dugouts to empty. Martínez was standing by himself on the grass near the Red Sox' dugout when Zimmer, once the Boston manager, approached him and swung his left fist. Turning away, Martínez shoved him to the grass. Seeing Zimmer there, others hurried to help him as Martínez backed away.

Martínez later insisted that he likes and respects Zimmer, but when he saw Zimmer coming at him, he simply reacted.

Zimmer understandably resents a headhunting pitcher. Before batters wore helmets, he was seriously beaned twice, once as a Brooklyn Dodger farmhand, once with the Dodgers. To relieve the pressure on his brain during surgery, two holes were drilled on each side of his skull. He rejoined the Dodgers, but he never quite fulfilled his promise as a can't-miss shortstop.

So when the 72-year-old Zimmer suddenly was sprawled on the grass, his Yankee teammates worried.

"That was way out of line," Jeff Nelson said of Martínez's shove.

"Whether he ran at you or not, you've got to consider the age," said Nelson, who was involved in a ninth-inning scuffle with a member of the Red Sox' grounds crew in the Yankees' bullpen. "You can duck out of the way."

Shortly after returning to the Yankees' dugout, Zimmer was seen on television with a small bandage across the bridge of his nose. Minutes later, he was seen smiling and laughing.

"Andy Pettitte probably calmed him down more than anybody," Manager Joe Torre said. "Andy said, `Put your arm around my shoulder, we'll pick you up.' Zim was very upset."

When Zimmer was surrounded by reporters later in the clubhouse, he hurried away after speaking briefly. "I have nothing to say," he said. "We won; that's all that counts." Asked if he were all right, he said: "I'm good enough to get dressed. I'm going to eat dinner, somewhere." That somewhere may have been Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital, where he was later taken for a precautionary examination.

Elsewhere in the clubhouse, Levine, in the absence of the principal owner George Steinbrenner, was complaining about what he termed an "attitude of lawlessness" in Fenway Park.

"If somebody jumped in the bullpen in Yankee Stadium, especially a Yankee employee," he growled, alluding to the Nelson incident, "he would be arrested and prosecuted. Anybody doing that is just not acceptable. It's so far over the line, it's so outrageous, it's beyond belief."

According to a Red Sox spokesman, the grounds crew member, Paul Williams, had cleat marks on his arms and back and had been kicked in the mouth during the incident with Nelson and Garcia, who had jumped over the nearby bullpen fence to join the fray.

The Red Sox spokesman added that Williams, a teacher of mentally disabled children, who was also taken to the hospital, will have the opportunity to file charges against Nelson and Garcia.

In regard to Martínez's buzzing of Garcia and the incident with Zimmer, Levine said, "We were told that the Red Sox and Major League Baseball had their arms around this problem, but there's an attitude of lawlessness that's permeating everything that's going on here."

Minutes later, Levine could be heard in a loud exchange with Sandy Alderson, baseball's dean of discipline, in a nearby room.

When Alderson left, Levine said, "You heard it, we disagreed. He thought it was a good job of security, I didn't. Sandy seems to be in denial. Any employee in Yankee Stadium would not be yelling or physically touching a player. Sandy thinks everything went wonderfully out there today. I didn't."

When approached by reporters later, Alderson seemed more concerned with Zimmer's aggressive behavior in approaching Martínez.

"Coaches are held to a different standard than players in keeping the peace and controlling players," Alderson said. "It's important that coaches act in a supportive way."

But Don Zimmer thought he was acting in a supportive way — supporting his disgust for headhunting pitchers.

Cowboys, Big Boys, Bad Boys



THE Red Sox cowboys were fine. The horses they want to ride to the World Series were out of control.

Pedro Martínez threw at Karim Garcia's head. Manny Ramirez went after Roger Clemens after a pitch that wasn't close to hitting him. When a bench-emptying confrontation ensued, an enraged Don Zimmer ran across the field, across the decades, and started to take a swing at the mouthy Martínez.

Martínez tossed Zimmer aside like a big pillow. If the Red Sox somehow rally to beat the Yankees in the American League Championship Series, there will be endless World Series chatter about how the blue-collar Bosox finally stood up to the big, bad Yankees.

If they do not, if the Yankees' 4-3 victory yesterday in Game 3 behind the 41-year-old Roger Clemens was the beginning of the end of championship-less year No. 86, the Red Sox and especially Martínez have bragging rights all winter. They won the fight. They put Zimmer, the Yankees' 72-year-old bench coach, flat on his back.

It was an amazing scene yesterday at Fenway Park, ugly and fascinating at the same time. Friday afternoon, the Red Sox' Kevin Millar said there would be no repeat of the late-inning shenanigans in Game 2 because Game 3 was too grand a stage, too large a moment. It was the game, with Martínez pitching, the Red Sox probably had to win.

Millar was only half-right because the gravity of surrendering an early 2-0 lead and not having his overpowering stuff was maddening for Martínez.

Derek Jeter hit one over the Green Monster. Hideki Matsui hit a run-scoring double. Runners at second and third in the fourth, no one out, the Yankees up by 3-2, first base open. Martínez filled it by hitting Garcia on the back.

"Absolutely," Garcia said when asked if Martínez had deliberately gone headhunting. Any doubts should have been dispelled by the sight of Martínez looking into the Yankees' dugout while pointing an index finger to his temple.

The Yankees were officially sick of the Red Sox and their need to prove themselves worthy. Anger replaced anticipation. Garcia slid hard into Todd Walker at second. Ramirez went for Clemens after a high pitch that Clemens said was actually "over the plate." Apart from the crowd, halfway to the Red Sox' dugout, Jeter said he saw a bald head go flying and understandably thought it was David Wells. Cowboys will be cowboys, even at the age of 72.

Before yesterday, the Cowboy Up material flowing from the Red Sox clubhouse was harmless fun, most of it coming from Millar. The garrulous leader here at the Fenway dude ranch, Millar swings a mean stick and wields a good shtick.

"It's the ultimate saying for this team," Millar said. "If we were a bunch of prima donnas, that would be a tough thing to say. There are certain teams that can use it, certain teams that can't."

"How about the Yankees?" someone said.

"Next question," Millar said.

Laughter followed, but the inference was as clear as the blue western sky. The Yankees are stuffy. The Red Sox are scruffy. The Park Avenue Yankees are business class. The Boston Common Red Sox are working class.

In Boston, you have to be careful, given all the provincial passion and popular charm that can obscure the true picture like the smoke from an Auerbachian cigar. Nobody spends like George Steinbrenner, but the Red Sox are not the Green Bay Packers, not the people's team, any more than the Yankees are up here fighting for the proletarian soul of their city.

Far from being in business to soothe a collective psyche made fragile by 85 years of championship futility, the Red Sox and their $100 million-plus payroll represent a powerful corporate entity in New England whose transfer of ownership in 2002 to the current team headed by John Henry netted the Yawkey Family Trust a whopping $660 million.

Yet the spin persists: Martínez against Clemens was the good son of New England by way of the Dominican Republic against the traitorous Texan who sold himself to the Evil Empire. Never mind how Martínez found his way to Boston in one of those can't-afford-him tradeoffs by Montreal. Never mind that Martínez remains an enigma in his own clubhouse, much like Ramirez and even Nomar Garciaparra, to a certain extent.

Ramirez drove in two first-inning runs off Clemens and set Fenway rocking. Then he overreacted during his second at-bat. Or maybe, as Clemens would suggest, he was trying to get Clemens ejected.

"He would know it if I meant it," Clemens said of the fourth-inning pitch in question, and history sure does support him on that one.

When everyone on the field seemed ready to blow, Jeter, the Yankees' captain, walked calmly toward the mound, right toward Clemens. Jeter turned his back on the mass of bodies, kept his pitcher out of harm's way.

"You don't want him to get thrown out," Jeter said. "We needed him to do what he did."

There are cool hombres and gunslingers who draw too soon, but all cowboy talk aside, stars must carry championship teams in the moments that matter most. Yesterday, Ramirez and Garciaparra were a combined 1 for 8. Martínez couldn't hold the early lead or keep his wits. The Yankees' horses, Clemens and Jeter, led them into the late innings, allowing Mariano Rivera to close the book on Game 3, and maybe on Martínez for the year.

After all was said and done, the filthy rich took a 2-1 lead over the scruffy rich on a day when the short series and a long rivalry got lowdown and dirty.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

Freedom Tower
October 13th, 2003, 08:55 PM
That game showed the Red Sox to be a disgrace. Having one of their employees cheering in the Yankees bullpen is asking for it. Not only that but it's amazing that Pedro Martinez was not thrown out of the game for that pitch. Then he claims that 72 year old Zimmer posed a threat to him. He's full of it. Not to mention how nuts Ramirez was for thinking that pitch was aimed at him. And after all of that BS the Red Sox still lost. If they are going to try and injure the Yankees team they at least should plan on winning. Even with all of their horsing around the Yankees won. Ha, serves the Red Sox right. And there's another game tonight. GO YANKEES!!

October 14th, 2003, 12:17 PM

October 15th, 2003, 12:55 AM

Since I can't really say; 'in your face!'

October 15th, 2003, 09:21 AM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031014/capt.bxf12610142255.alcs_yankees_red_sox_bxf126.jp g

October 15th, 2003, 11:33 AM
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/10/14/sports/mueller_getty.184.jpg http://i.cnn.net/si/2003/baseball/mlb/specials/postseason/2003/10/14/yankees.redsox.game5.ap/p1_wells_ap.jpg http://images.sportsline.com/u/photos/baseball/mlb/img6721207.jpg

....and the Series returns to the Bronx.....

October 15th, 2003, 09:26 PM
Red Sox 0 0 4 0 0 0 3 0 2 9 16 1
Yankees 1 0 0 4 1 0 0 0 0 6 12 2


TLOZ Link5
October 15th, 2003, 11:15 PM
You may have won this battle, Red Sox, but the war is not yet over.

October 16th, 2003, 12:49 AM
I want to see the Red Sox win. The Yankees have won so many World Series and ALCS pennants that I just have to see somebody else win.

However, I wouldn't bet $51 dollars on the Red Sox. The Yankees are almost sure to win Game 7.

This will confirm my worst fears of a Yankees-Marlins World Series.

October 16th, 2003, 01:49 PM
Most New Yorkers (except irrational people who go to games in Flushing) are comfortable with the situation over the last 85 years.

TV is dreading a Red Sox-Marlin series. The natural for TV would have been Yanks-Cubs, 2 big cities with rivalries beyond baseball.


Red Sox- Cubs. 7th game, bottom of the ninth, Cubs up a run, bases loaded, 3-2 count to Nomar. Here's the pitch.....and the universe suddenly implodes.

That goat is pretty tough. We'll see what the Babe can do tonight.

October 16th, 2003, 03:45 PM
I have to say, this series has me at wits end - the stress! I've bitten my nails to the nub and gone all gray. If I don't have a heart attack before the 9th inning it will be a miracle.

Play ball!

October 16th, 2003, 06:07 PM

TLOZ Link5
October 16th, 2003, 08:45 PM
Roger, did you do it AGAIN? :shock: :o :shock:

TLOZ Link5
October 17th, 2003, 01:27 AM
I have just one thing to say to you Boston fans:

:P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P

October 17th, 2003, 01:41 AM
Okay, now on to the southernmost suburb. :wink:

October 17th, 2003, 11:11 AM
I can't even think of Florida yet while there is still euphoria over last night's game. WHAT A GAME! What a fun night in the city, too, especially after midnight. The streets were empty, the bars - packed and loud. Well, after the 7th inning they were. Like game 7 wasn't enough, extra innings?! Like the stress wasn't enough already? I have to admit, it didn't look good for the Yanks, most of the game was pretty depressing. But once the game was tied, it became a pressure-cooker, (the beer started flowing), and in the end it was one for the ages. Aaron Boone? Go figure. Unbelievable series!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Okay, now for our southernmost suburb.........

October 17th, 2003, 11:20 AM
Aaron Boone? Go figure. Unbelievable series!

"NEXT YEAR," he declared in self mocking heartbroken irony.

TLOZ Link5
October 17th, 2003, 12:15 PM
My dorm floor went CRAZY when the score tied, and even more so when the Yankees won.

October 17th, 2003, 04:52 PM
Ugh...I wanted to see a curse lifted.
Wasn't Aaron Boone formerly on the Cincinnati Reds?

Anyway, it might be good to lock this thread and start a Yanks vs. Marlins thread. In fact, I will make one now.

October 17th, 2003, 07:23 PM
Of all the postseason games I've been to, this was the most tense. Even with the score 4-0, the atmosphere was that every play was important. When Mussina came in with runners on 1st and third and no out, and struck out Veritek and got Damon to hit into a DP, from the crown reaction you'd think the score was tied. A pressure cooker till the end.
The subway ride home was a blast.

Grady Littlle now takes his place with Johnny Pesky, Mike Torrez, Bill Buckner, et al, as a casualty of The Curse.

Spiritual intervention may have more to do with The Stadium. There's something about the old ballpark - you can feel it.

Right now, I can't give a thought to Tropical Fish.

October 18th, 2003, 02:05 AM
October 18, 2003

Miracle at the Bambino's House (7 Letters)

To the Editor:

Re "Old Hero, and Newest, Carry New York to the Series" (front page, Oct. 17):

As parents, we face many and often complex challenges in raising our children. The teenage years in particular can confound us and turn our hair gray.

Despite our best efforts at mature guidance, our own teenage daughter strayed onto a path certain to cause her pain and heartbreak. This year, for reasons known only to her, my daughter became a Red Sox fan. Now she suffers with all the others who follow this road.

We do our best as parents, and of course we will be there for her in her time of suffering. Go Yankees!

New Paltz, N.Y., Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

The Red Sox loss to the Yankees in the American League Championship Series (front page, Oct. 17) had all the inevitability of a Greek tragedy.

But for those of us who live in Boston, the advantage of "Oedipus Rex" is that we only have to watch it once.

Cambridge, Mass., Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

I know that fans in New York are really excited about the World Series featuring their Yankees (front page, Oct. 17). But those in the hinterlands would have loved a Cubs-Red Sox Series.

I don't think that I'll be watching, even if one of those Series games is Roger Clemens's last start ever. Sorry, the magic is gone.

South Charleston, W.Va.
Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

Re "Old Hero, and Newest, Carry New York to the Series" (front page, Oct. 17): Ah, sweet victory!

I've been a Yankee fan since seventh grade in Kansas City in the late 40's, when the Kansas City Blues were a farm team for the Bronx Bombers.

I will concede the possibility that someday, Boston might break the curse of the Bambino and go on to the World Series, but never against New York. I hope that the Babe is smiling today.

St. Mary's, Kan., Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

Re "Red Sox Come Close Again but Still No Champagne" (column, Sports pages, Oct. 17):

This is an example of the need for a consolation playoff game format, like that used in World Cup soccer.

That way, if the Cubs and the Red Sox had played each other, someone would have to win and help lift the familiar fog of misery that has settled over Chicago and New England.

Washington, Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

Re "Red Sox Come Close Again but Still No Champagne" (column, Sports pages, Oct. 17):

Curses aside, there is a good scientific reason for our history. The Red Sox have the most distinctive ballpark in the major leagues, featuring the Green Monster, the outfield wall that haunts us.

The Red Sox play two different types of baseball: baseball at normal parks and baseball at Fenway, half the time at each. Our situation guarantees that we will have a good record but almost never the best.

There has been a lot of debate and nostalgia for the Green Monster, but maybe it is time to give the dedicated players and fans a chance to play the same sport as everybody else — and level the playing field.

Cambridge, Mass., Oct. 17, 2003

To the Editor:

Re "Old Hero, and Newest, Carry New York to the Series" (front page, Oct. 17): I'd like to congratulate George Steinbrenner for buying yet another championship.

La Habra, Calif., Oct. 17, 2003

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

October 18th, 2003, 05:41 AM
October 18, 2003

Its High Hopes Dashed, Boston Reels as the Archenemy Triumphs Again


BOSTON, Oct. 17 — Could it have been any worse?

Blowing a four-run lead to lose in extra innings in Game 7. Coming so close to winning, only to be flattened, once again, by the archenemy, the New York Yankees.

Red Sox fans seemed in a state of asphyxiated shock on Friday, the wind sucked out of them when the Yankees crushed their World Series ambitions yet again.

John Huyler had come into Boston from his home in Plymouth to watch the game on Thursday night with friends at a downtown bar.

For much of the game, "everyone was on cloud nine," Mr. Huyler, 28, a reactor operator at the Pilgrim Nuclear Station, said. "We were going to the World Series. We were going to play the Marlins, and we knew we had a good chance of beating them. Then someone let the air out of the place. I looked around the bar, and everyone had the same zombie look on their face, like it can't happen again."

When it was over, Mr. Huyler said he could not even cry.

"I was so spent emotionally that I didn't have any emotions left," he said. "At the end, we just kind of sat there with our hands on our hats and looked down at the table."

Sure, Red Sox fans are used to losing. They are even used to late-season roller coasters, the rush of thinking that the team might have a fighting chance, followed by the trough of disappointment when their team falls short.

But this year was different.

"I think there was more optimism about this team among fans than there has been in a long time," said Glenn Stout, a baseball historian who was a co-author of "Red Sox Century" (Houghton Mifflin). "There was new ownership, what a lot of people thought was a new approach. They fell for them, you know."

Mr. Stout said the team this year had enthralled a new generation of fans in a city that had not come so close to the ultimate prize since the calamitous loss of the 1986 World Series. He said he expected that many fans would now distance themselves a little from the team.

"I know people who, after 1986, they still pay attention, but they don't follow, they don't fall in love with the team any more," he said. "They watch them from afar. Many fans will keep some of their emotions in check: `I'm not going to get hurt that bad again.' "

Several fans milled around Fenway Park on Friday, glazed expressions on their faces.

"I needed one more walk around the ballpark," Scott McCauley, 31, of Portsmouth, N.H., said.

Mr. McCauley saw a parallel between the Red Sox and romance.

"It's like the hot chick that dumps you," he said. "It breaks your heart, but it's fun to go out with the hot chick. So you go for as long as you can, but you know you're going to get dumped in the end."

Many fans bemoaned the decision to keep Pedro Martinez on the pitcher's mound too long.

"We're somewhere between sad and mad," said Paula Mullen, 52, principal of Galvin Middle School in Wakefield, who was taking sixth graders on a tour of Fenway Park.

Jay Cabral, who had spent the season working at a Red Sox souvenir store and attended every home game, could barely coax more than a whisper from his voice as he stood at a poster board with pictures of the team that someone had propped in front of Gate B.

"I dedicated the last year of my life to the Red Sox," Mr. Cabral, 26, said as he touched a picture of Mr. Martinez on the poster, as if to steady his nerves. "And this is not the way I wrote it."

Red Sox Cursed Themselves



Fans stopped at Babe Ruth's grave to thank him for the Yankees' victory.

JIM DIODATI, 23, drove up from Yonkers to hang his red college baseball socks on an overhanging bush. John Traynor, 31, jumped out of bed on a few hours' sleep, on the morning before his bachelor party, to lay a bouquet of flowers with a card that said, "Dear Babe, thanks again."

Someone left the stub of a ticket from Game 7 on Thursday night. A ball with the inscription, "Let the curse live on," nestled by the base of the headstone. The New York City tabloids, with their caustic and celebratory headlines, were spread about. The Westchester County Fife and Drum Corps came to play "God Bless America."

Gratitude flowed like Champagne in a pennant winner's clubhouse yesterday at the Gate of Heaven Cemetery, where Babe Ruth shed about as much light on the latest crushing Red Sox defeat as Manager Grady Little did after his team was confirmed dead early yesterday. By daybreak, Yankees fans were streaming off the parkways in quiet northern Westchester to pay their respects to the man they were more convinced than ever had catered another funeral postgame spread for Boston from his final resting place.

On those familiar Ruthian subjects of consumption and curses, all we really knew was that the piping hot pizza delivered to the gravesite the previous afternoon went uneaten and turned colder than Boston Common on the cruel morning after, before being carted away. "Someone actually sent him a pie," Bill Lane, the cemetery's assistant superintendent, said while on the lookout for those who might view this shrine the way Pedro Martínez eyed Karim Garcia, as a convenient and juicy target.

People wouldn't carry this silly curse thing that far, you say? Andrew Nagle, the director of the sprawling cemetery, told me that security personnel recently had to eject some who had shown up to get drunk and messy. Put it this way: If a live man can be under siege for allegedly interfering with the outcome of a ballgame in Chicago, why not a dead one in the New York suburbs?

Though Babe's ghost wasn't giving interviews, brushing me off like a spoiled Red Sox star, I have my doubts he intervened in the game that sent the Yankees to another World Series starting tonight against the Florida Marlins, and sent the Red Sox home to lick their wounds and scrape the Series insignia off the Fenway Park grass.

I don't believe Ruth ever put a curse on the Red Sox, or even carried a grudge. Harry Frazee did Ruth a huge favor when he sold him and sent him from provincial Boston to a grander and more ambitious stage. Frazee, Lane said, happens to be buried in a cemetery near the Gate of Heaven, meaning Frazee and the Babe are spiritually coexisting in the same county. They might have even watched Game 7 together, for all we know rooting for the Red Sox.

Remember this: It wasn't the Red Sox who squeezed the life out of Ruth's career, rejected his overtures to manage and then cast him off, a dispirited Bambino.

In an altogether different world, the Yankees of then apparently had the same unsentimental operating mentality as their owner does now: We pay, you produce. As difficult as George Steinbrenner can be to stomach, what his organization does have, unlike Boston's, is an orderly chain of command. His stars don't make out the lineup card or call the managerial moves. They don't run the asylum.

In his make-or-break game, Joe Torre could drop his $120 million slugger, Jason Giambi, four spots in the lineup and, far from sulking, get two solo home runs. He could bench Aaron Boone, the organization's major in-season acquisition, and still have Boone thrilled with the opportunity to take one heroic swing. Torre could tell Mariano Rivera that he had gone far enough, no matter what Rivera wanted, and take responsibility if that strategy failed.

Grady Little, conversely, surrendered the most important decision of his managerial career to Martínez, his overworked ace who was in the midst of the most emotional and controversial week of his professional life.

Little should have removed Martínez, saved him from his own competitive conceit. That's what he did in Game 5 of the division series in Oakland. Little's bullpen pulled him through, all the way to Game 7 Thursday night.

Don't blame Little, though. He didn't put himself in the low-leveraged position of working without a job guarantee for next season. How prudent is it for an organization to spend in excess of $100 million for talent and put it in the hands of a man reportedly working for a half-million, paltry by today's standards? What does that communicate to the players and particularly the stars, who in Boston have historically been coddled and have done as they pleased?

Was Game 7 the continuation of a curse, an outright choke or a result brought about by contrasting cultures? My guess is that Little was influenced by the burden of past blowups from Boston bullpens, after Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams, ringleaders representing four championship Yankee teams, signaled the eighth-inning charge.

Call it what you wish, but whatever haunts the Red Sox, it is, by now, largely self-imposed.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

Freedom Tower
October 18th, 2003, 11:35 AM
HAHAHA THE CURSE WILL LAST FOREVER. I'm glad the Red Sox lost, especially after that game their whole team took it upon themselves to assault the Yankees. They even got their grounds crew to pitch in. That's pathetic and it isn't real baseball. What was their plan? To injure the Yankees so they cannot play? Like I said... pathetic. GO YANKEES!

October 31st, 2003, 04:45 AM
October 31, 2003


Red Sox Offer Bait, but Yanks Don't Bite


You compete with your neighbor, relentlessly. You want a greener lawn, a bigger pool, even a snazzier mailbox. It is how George Steinbrenner treats his contentious relationship with the Boston Red Sox.

So when the Red Sox put Manny Ramirez on irrevocable waivers Wednesday, they were essentially dangling the Bentley that is in their garage and tempting Steinbrenner, letting him know he could have the fancier car, too, for nothing. Well, technically, that is. The Red Sox did not want any players in return. All the Yankees had to do was pick up the payments of $104 million over the next five years.

There has not been a transaction of this magnitude between these fierce rivals since the Red Sox sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees in 1920. Anyone with a pulse from New York to New Zealand knows how that exchange worked out for both. The Yankees have piled up 26 titles since Babe bolted to the Bronx, while the Red Sox are idling on zero.

The Red Sox are obviously willing to experience life without a pure hitter who can be a pure headache and they must feel that relocating Ramirez might help them finally reverse the curse. But we will probably never know how Ramirez would have looked in baggy pinstripes. A person who spoke to Steinbrenner yesterday said he had told team officials not to put a claim in on Ramirez.

Two baseball executives said the Yankees made a savvy decision by not claiming Ramirez. One executive said the Red Sox undoubtedly put Ramirez on waivers to try to entice the Yankees to take his albatross of a contract, knowing the Yankees are one of the only teams that could afford him and also realizing that in Steinbrenner they have an owner who is impulsive enough to do it. Again, here is a dazzling addition to your already expensive fleet, George. Just grab the payment book as well.

Boston's attempt to goad Steinbrenner into taking one of the most devastating hitters in the major leagues and a player who grew up near Yankee Stadium was fascinating. The Yankees spent a few hours discussing the issue on Wednesday, but had decided by yesterday morning that the positives of adding Ramirez (lots of offense) did not outweigh the negatives (lots of unpredictability from a moody 31-year-old and lots of unexpected money funneling back to a chief competitor).

Theo Epstein, the 29-year-old general manager of the Red Sox, could work for them for three decades and he would never call the Yankees and offer a high-profile player like Ramirez in a trade, because teams that are essentially enemies do not directly deal with each other with so much at stake.

But if Steinbrenner claimed Ramirez, took his bloated contract and suddenly gave the Red Sox increased financial flexibility, Boston officials would have viewed that transaction differently, as a clever maneuver they controlled from the outset, and they would have been exchanging high-fives on Yawkey Way for days.

As much as Ramirez contributed to a record-setting 2003 lineup with a .325 average, 37 homers and 104 runs batted in, the Red Sox feel their offense will be formidable without him and are weary of Ramirez's often selfish behavior. Ramirez was benched for a game this season when he acted petulantly and, like Pedro Martínez and Nomar Garciaparra, he operates on his own island. And remember, Ramirez was signed by the previous ownership group in Boston.

Without Ramirez's contract, the infusion of $21 million a year would allow the Red Sox to aggressively address their pitching concerns. Whether they pursue the free-agent starters Bartolo Colón or Kevin Millwood or try to acquire a closer like Houston's Billy Wagner, lopping off one-fifth of their payroll through waivers was something the Red Sox are ready and willing to do. But the Red Sox need an enabler to finish the deal, and with Steinbrenner just saying no, the strategy appears to have stalled. Look for Boston to continue trying to unload Ramirez in a trade.

The off-season is less than one week old, but already the Red Sox and the Yankees, who gave us a dramatic American League Championship Series, are feverishly competing again. They spent the last off-season squabbling over pitcher José Contreras, who ultimately signed with the Yankees, and skirmishing over Colón, who wound up going to the Chicago White Sox, and they then spent all of the 2003 season fighting each other.

Now the Red Sox have taken the first step toward challenging the Yankees in 2004, although it was an unusual step because it involved some unexpected, and deceptive, generosity. The Red Sox wanted the Yankees to take Ramirez no questions asked. But the sticker shock and the potential ramifications in acquiring this particular player were too much for Steinbrenner. Manny might be a Bentley, but he is definitely not the Babe.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

October 31st, 2003, 08:05 AM
I never thought that the Yankees would go after Ramirez, even if it wasn't the Red Sox who were trying to unload his contract. The problems he would create go beyond his stats. Mondesi wasn't traded because he was in a slump, but because of his clubhouse behavior.

Years ago, the Yankees avoided Albert Bell, who had superior stats to Bernie Williams (who was also a free agent), and signed Williams to a long-term contract. That proved to be the right choice.

It isn't how much is spent, but how wisely - the Mets were #2 in payroll.

I think they'll go after Gary Sheffield, but look for Atlanta to put up a big fight. They may experiment with switching Williams and Matsui in the outfield.

There is always pressure on the Yankees to get to the World Series, but the pressure to preserve the curse is greater. :D

November 1st, 2003, 03:33 AM
Boston is looking to aquire Joe Torre.

Freedom Tower
November 1st, 2003, 08:04 PM
You're kidding me?! Next year is the last year of his contract...

December 19th, 2003, 06:59 AM
December 19, 2003

2 Yankees and Worker Are Charged in Fight


BOSTON, Dec. 18 — Jeff Nelson, Karim Garcia and a Fenway Park groundskeeper were charged Thursday with assault and battery for their roles in a bullpen fight during Game 3 of the American League Championship Series between the Yankees and the Red Sox.

Clerk Magistrate Michael Neighbors of Roxbury District Court issued the charges less than a week after a hearing to determine whether there was probable cause. The police sought the charges against the two Yankees players in the days after the Oct. 11 fight. Nelson's lawyer filed a cross-complaint against the groundskeeper, Paul Williams, earlier this month. None of them were present Thursday. They will be arraigned Jan. 7.

Neighbors said the police and the Suffolk County district attorney's office presented a weak case by not having the responding officers or witnesses to the fight testify at the hearing and by failing to adequately complete the investigation. But Neighbors said the police report, which said Nelson, a pitcher, instigated the fight, and Garcia, the right fielder, jumped over the outfield fence and started hitting Williams "clearly establishes that probable cause was met."

Neighbors issued the complaint against Williams, saying there was no evidence directly refuting Nelson's claim and Williams's lack of defensive wounds could "suggest the possibility of aggression."

Nelson, a free agent, testified last week that he asked Williams, who was cheering for the Red Sox in the Yankees' bullpen, to move. Nelson said Williams charged at him, bumped his chest and nose and spit on his face.

Williams said he was engaging the crowd when Nelson came up behind him, touched the bill of his cap against his forehead and grabbed him by the shirt. Williams said Nelson then grabbed him by the back of the head, at which point he fell to the ground.

Garcia, who is eligible for arbitration with the Yankees, did not attend the hearing on the advice of his lawyer, Gerard Malone, who said Neighbors's assessment of the investigation is significant.

"It's telling to some degree that the clerk magistrate indicated that the testimony was minimal and weak in many instances and we'll proceed from there," Malone said.

James Merberg, Nelson's lawyer, said Nelson would now have the opportunity for a "full and fair hearing on these allegations."

Patrick Jones, Williams's lawyer, said he was not surprised that all the charges were issued, because of the low standard of proof required, but added that he and his client were disappointed.

Jones said he planned to file civil suits against the players in the coming months, and had not decided if he would take legal action against the Yankees or any other organization. Jones said the fight left Williams, 24, a special education teacher from Derry, N.H., with a severely deviated septum and severe cervical injuries. Jones said Williams's sense of smell was severely damaged.

A Yankees spokesman had no comment. A message left for Williams was not returned.

The maximum penalty for assault and battery, a misdemeanor in Massachusetts, is two and a half years in jail, a $500 fine, or both. There is no minimum mandatory sentence, giving judges flexibility in ruling.

Jeff Baskies, the president of Lawyers Weekly USA, said the case would now proceed to trial. He said the charges against Williams could potentially harm his civil cases, because potential jurors could be aware that Williams was indicted for possibly causing the fight.

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

December 19th, 2003, 10:26 AM
Red Sox Nation look to your wallets

By JIM LITKE, AP Sports Columnist
December 19, 2003

When baseball's players' union stepped in and put the kibosh on the deal that would have sent Alex Rodriguez from Texas to Boston, this is what A-Rod said: ``I recognize the principle involved, and fully support the need to protect the interests of my fellow players.''

This is what he should have said: ``Owners of the Rangers and Red Sox, you've been 'Punk'd.'''

As fans of the MTV show that ended its two-season run just last Sunday know, getting ``Punk'd'' means winding up as the butt of an always-elaborate, usually very expensive practical joke. Which, from the look of things, is exactly what happened to Texas owner Tom Hicks and his counterpart in Boston, John Henry.

Three years after handing Rodriguez $252 million and winding up with the kind of buyer's remorse that often afflicts ``Hair Club for Men'' customers, Hicks thought he'd finally found a sucker to help him get out from under a disastrous deal. Ditto for Henry, who inherited malcontent Manny Ramirez and his $160 million deal and couldn't wait to foist him off on somebody, too.

And they thought they'd found each other Wednesday, when Rodriguez agreed to restructure his contract to make the swap work.

But that was before Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 man, rejected the proposed trade, saying it violated terms of the collective bargaining agreement by reducing the value of A-Rod's contract.

Loyal union man that he is, Rodriguez reversed course and agreed that principle was too important to sacrifice, not just for him, but for all of the working stiffs in baseball. So he and agent Scott Boras went back to the bargaining table and told Hicks and Henry to find a way to ensure that every penny of the $179 million he is still owed finds its way back into his pocket.

Saps that they are, that's exactly what the gazillionaire owners set out to do. But just as they were closing in on a new deal, commissioner Bud Selig stepped in Thursday and ordered a halt to any further trade talks, saying they missed the 5 p.m. EST deadline.

``I have terminated my permission for Boston and Alex Rodriguez to continue pursuing this transaction at this time,'' Selig said.

Though Red Sox president Larry Lucchino called the deal ``dead,'' his Rangers counterpart, John Hart, took a different tack. He said the glass was still half full, and there was still an ``opportunity.''

If and when the swap does occur, it will come as no surprise to Selig. Note the last three words of his declaration -- ``at this time.''

So what was all the fuss about?

The same thing it's always about in baseball: money.

Only the most cynical people would suggest A-Rod made an army of accountants and lawyers jump through hoops to restructure a deal that big and then signed off on the final product knowing the union would kick it back. But if you look up ``cynic'' in a dictionary, don't be surprised to find a picture of Boras, the most rapacious agent in the business, smiling back.

By the same token, even an opportunist needs an opportunity, and no two owners in baseball were begging to be ``Punk'd'' more than Hicks and Henry.

The former was tired of being baseball's doormat, perennially mocked for making the single dumbest signing in the history of pro sports. That didn't occur to him until he stood, with a grin as wide as Texas, alongside Boras and behind Rodriguez at a news conference to show off his purchase to the locals. Then someone asked A-Rod how he managed to wrangle a contract more than twice as big as the previous benchmark.

``I hired an attorney,'' Rodriguez said. And in the next moment, Hicks' smile narrowed and Boras was left beaming for both of them.

Chances are that he'll still get to lavish that same grin with Henry standing by his side. Henry and the rest of Boston's new ownership believe so strongly that the Yankees really are the ``Evil Empire'' that they're willing to do almost anything to knock the pinstripes off New York.

Never mind that this fascination with A-Rod threatens to break what had been a string of clever, cost-effective acquisitions -- shoring up their pitching with starter Curt Schilling and closer Keith Foulke. Never mind that ownership is willing to deal Nomar Garciaparra, whose done nothing but provide years of loyal and productive service at shortstop.

Somebody is going to pay for all this foolishness, and here's the first clue:

When A-Rod showed up in Texas, Lucchino was president of the San Diego Padres and this is what he said: ``Make no mistake, these obscene salaries are paid for by taxing the fans.''

This is what he should say now: ``Red Sox Nation, get ready to reach foryour wallets.''

Jim Litke is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write tohim at: jlitke@ap.org

Copyright © 2003 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

October 11th, 2004, 01:03 PM

October 11, 2004

Beer for the Babe, and a Frenzy for a Red Sox-Yankees Rematch


The signs are everywhere. The New York Yankees and the Boston Red Sox are squaring off for the American League championship for the second year in a row, and a frenzy is following them.

The ticket scalpers outside Yankee Stadium have already raised their prices to as high as $300 per ticket. Bouncers at sports bars are getting ready for unruly crowds.

In Westchester County, the man who tends Babe Ruth's grave is bracing for an onslaught of fans bearing gifts of beer and prayers of victory. And throughout New York, wary Red Sox fans are searching for safe havens to watch the game and cheer.

Fans in both cities are dusting off the old totems and clichés of the Red Sox-Yankee rivalry: the Curse of the Bambino; 1918, the last year Boston won the World Series; pinstripes versus flaming red; Beantown versus the Big Apple.

"I dream always of a Boston-Yankees series," said Jose Maldonado, a baseball coach whose youth league team, the Royals, played yesterday afternoon in the shadow of Yankee Stadium. "It brings the fans of baseball back. All the fans in the country want to see that matchup."

But Yankees fans around the city said that this year's series, which begins tomorrow at Yankee Stadium, is not merely baseball repeating itself, but a torqued-up rematch that has been a year in the making. The New York Post dubbed this year's contest "Ultimate Baseball Armageddon," and few fans would disagree.

The Yankees beat the Red Sox in a seven-game series to win last year's American League title, and fans say the rivalry has only intensified.

The Red Sox traded for Curt Schilling, the All-Star pitcher. Then the Yankees signed the slugger Alex Rodriguez, which some figured gave the team another edge over Boston. During spring training this year, some fans spent $500 just to see the two teams play an exhibition game.

The owners of the two teams sniped during the season, and in July, the teams brawled on the field.

"So much had built up last year after the series," said Frederic Frommer, who, with his father, wrote a history of the teams' animus. "As much animosity as there was last year, it's been fueled even more."

During last year's championship series, fans from Boston and New York visited the Gate of Heaven Cemetery in Hawthorne, where Babe Ruth is buried, Mr. Frommer said. They left sacrifices of hot dogs and beer and team souvenirs. Some asked him to help end Boston's long losing streak, and others urged Mr. Ruth to hold it intact.

"One man was there in a 1920's Boston uniform, cap and all, doing his own incantations," said the cemetery's manager, Andrew Nagle.

Mr. Nagle said he was hoping for a lighter flock of pilgrims this year. "We can't let things get out of hand," he said. "We have to keep the decorum as best we can."

At the Ballpark Sports Bar and Grill, across the street from Yankee Stadium, the plans were exactly the opposite. Though metal gates covered the windows yesterday, the staff inside was eagerly preparing for another crush of fans of both teams.

"They stand around and look at each other and say, 'You want some of me?' " said the bar's bouncer, Bruce Wilson. "I tell them, you got to take that outside."

Last year, fans piled into the restaurant to watch the games on big-screen televisions at the bar and eat hamburgers and cheesesteaks cheaper than the ones sold inside the stadium. The capacity of the restaurant is about 200, but Mr. Wilson said the place fills up until the only open space is on the ceiling.

The restaurant was full of customers hours before the games last year. Boston fans jostled with New York fans, and any time a piece of Red Sox paraphernalia - a pennant, a hat - was dropped, Yankees fans stomped it as if they were crushing a bug.

"It's going to be more tense this year," said Joey Gutierrez, who manages the snack bar.

But Mr. Wilson said he had learned something about crowd control. When a group of rowdy Boston fans walked in, he isolated them in a corner and penned them in behind five barstools. Mr. Wilson said he had kept the group under control, and they were grateful because he acted as if he had set aside a special place for them.

Outside the restaurant, scalpers roamed the sidewalks cooing, "Tickets, tickets," to anyone walking by. A ticket can sell for as little as $50 on a slow summer day, but yesterday afternoon scalpers like Jay Thomas were selling tickets for Tuesday's playoff opener for $250 to $300.

By tomorrow, Mr. Thomas said, he will be asking $400.

"It's in demand," he said. "Everyone wants to buy them. You gotta get them now while they're going for a cheap price."

Like Autumn's Leaves, the Red Sox Will Fall (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/11/sports/baseball/11chass.html)

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

October 11th, 2004, 02:10 PM
Late 1970s, when it was much easier to get good tickets.
Red Sox were in for 4 weekday night games. We got a dozen field box seats behind the plate, about 10 rows back, for all 4 games.

Friends were visiting from Kansas City, and we took them to one of the games. From the seats, if you looked up to the left or right, the edge of the upper deck was backlighted by the glow of the stadium lights.

During the game, my friend kept looking up, then asked me, "What's that bright gold flash upstairs?"

I said, "Beer fight. I hope they don't fall."

October 11th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Ah, those were the days - when they sold beer the whole game. Not too many people pay $300-$400 to get kicked out for fighting anymore.

Get ready for another nail-biting week staying up late drinking beer and waking up with a scratchy voice. It's become a ritual as customary as decorating the Christmas tree.

October 12th, 2004, 12:18 PM
My dear girlfriend of two weeks short of a year is a diehard Yankee fan. This will be an intense series to say the least. :shock:

October 12th, 2004, 12:31 PM
----NY@N: It was actually Friday Oct. 24th (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/schedule/ps_03.jsp) 8)

October 12th, 2004, 12:52 PM
So just a week following the Red Sox crushing defeat last year, you went and hooked up with a Yankee fan.

October 12th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Jasonik: By any chance, were you and your girlfriend at the Sat Sept 18 game at the Stadium?

It was the game after the Rivera blown save. big game for both teams. I think Tim McCarver and Fox were doing the broadcast. Early in the game, the camera zeroed in on a guy in a Red Sox cap sitting next to a woman in a Yankees cap. They were chatting, and the broadcasters assumed there was a relationship between them.

As the score got progressively more lopsided, 5-0, 9-0, the camera kept going back and comments were made about their relative demeanor. By the time the score was 13-0, he was staring toward the outfield with his hand under his chin, while she was munching on a hot dog, talking to everyone else around them, and generally having a great time.

At this point, McCarver wondered if they were actually together, and he rationalized that at least the guy got to sit next to a pretty woman - even if she was a Yankee fan.

They did leave together.

October 12th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Not us. We haven't even watched a Sox-Yanks matchup together yet, tonight will be the first.

She just told me she'll work the first aid station at Fenway for Friday's game, (she's a Medical Resident at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center). I'm insanely jealous, but am reminded that she has to wear a bright red shirt with the Red Sox logo on it. :lol:

What I'm worried about is going to visit her parents with her this weekend. Her Mom is an uber-fan, and she has no sense of humor that I can detect about the rivalry. I'm probably going to be told I can't wear my Red Sox hat in the house.

Just for the sake of my relationship I'd be willing to concede Saturday's game, god forbid I have an uncontrollable urge to celebrate. It'd never be able to live that down.

October 13th, 2004, 12:17 PM
Curt Schilling: "I'm not sure I can think of any scenario more enjoyable than making 55,000 people from New York shut up."

Sorry to disappoint you, Curt. :P

October 13th, 2004, 08:24 PM
Hopefully I'll be eating the proverbial hotdog tonight. *crosses fingers*

October 15th, 2004, 03:30 PM
New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com

Nation mourns its Red Sox

Friday, October 15th, 2004

BOSTON - Well, at least they still have that nice little football team to temper the winter gloom.
The wicked buzz generated by the current batch of idiots in red stockings lasted about as long as Johnny Pesky held the ball. The players might not have succumbed to the mass moroseness that descended upon New England early yesterday morning, but the salsa music blaring from the Fenway clubhouse barely buffers the truth.

This is one bummed out Olde Towne. A Nation mourns, and there are still 18 innings in which to hide under the couch.

The Red Sox are down 0-2 to the Yankees in the American League Championship Series, Curt Schilling likely won't pitch again until the snow thaws, Johnny Damon swings like Delilah and the Patriots don't play again until Sunday. Once again, it appears Boston fans must find consolation not in achievement, but in Yankee failure.

The hottest selling T-shirt in Kenmore Square still pays homage to Derek Jeter's mother - don't you just adore a series with family values? - but the most telling garment is this: a shirt with the words "Red Sox' Fans Favorite Moments" on front, and on back, a list. "Yankees lose to Marlins. Yankees lose to Diamondbacks. Yankees lose to Reds." Vendors are leaving room for one last line: "Yankees lose to Cardinals."

And so it goes, for the 86th year and counting. The Red Sox fans who bothered to crawl out of bed on this dreary afternoon admitted to looking forward to a few bright spots tonight, when Bronson Arroyo starts against Kevin Brown at Fenway. Arroyo could go inside again on the precious Alex Rodriguez, which would turn the little bandbox on its side. Brown's back could crimp, and surely he would hear a few special chants about parasites and punches. The skies could also open up, flooding the Back Bay with frogs and locusts, and that might be the best harbinger of all because it would mean Derek Lowe wouldn't have to start Game 5, in Schilling's place.

If there is a Game 5. What once had the look and smell of a series going to the ultimate zenith now feels as if it's been slapped into its rightful place. "If he can't go for the rest of the series," Arroyo was saying yesterday of his buddy Schilling, "I definitely think it's hurting us."

Unless this is the ultimate cat-and-mouse game, unless the Red Sox doctors can rig a space-age contraption that will keep Schilling's ankle tendon sheath from completely snapping while still affording him mobility, Boston has little hope of returning to the Bronx. Baseball fans, whatever their stripes, will be the poorer for it.

This year's Aaron Boone moment occurred subtly, unaccompanied by flair or drama. What if Mark Bellhorn clung to Jason Varitek's throw from the plate, and Jeter was tagged out at second base in the first inning of Game 2, before Pedro Martinez threw a zillion pitches? Or this: What if Schilling had bowed out of that Game 1 start after his ankle began barking in an awful bullpen warmup? Remember, if David Wells hadn't lied about his back in Game 5 of the World Series last year, Red Sox fans might have one less line on those Yankee-hating T-shirts.

A series bursting with such drama and macho posturing now seems so deflated. Not so long ago, everything appeared to be lined perfectly for the Red Sox: the planets, their rotation, Schilling's off-the-cuff script. He's always been mouthy, and when he upped the noise level to another extreme with that preseries comment about making "55,000 people from New York shut up," a Nation nodded in brazen harmony. Cockiness does not come naturally to Red Sox fans; they are having a bad century and don't mind moaning about it every single second of every single day.

But then, literally while Brian Cashman was sleeping, Boston general manager Theo Epstein swooped in, and over Thanksgiving dinner, signed Schilling, the stud pitcher who would slay the Evil Empire. It might not be a curse, but it definitely is cruel irony to hear Schilling say his ankle injury occurred not in a playoff game against the Angels, but in his final regular-season start against the Yankees.

It gets worse - around here, it always does. Millions of mouths dropped simultaneously late Wednesday night, when Pedro reflected in a strange glow of those "Who's your Daddy?" chants at the Stadium. The more he spoke about mango trees and grabbing the attention of all of New York, the more he sounded as if he were auditioning for a role with Steinbrenner, Inc. At least that's the lasting impression for a Nation raised to expect the worst.

So they pray to their deities, to Stephen King's ghosts and Ted Williams' legacy. Let the storm clouds roll through, let Pedro have the ball one more time. And don't forget, the Patriots go Sunday, and the Yankees haven't won a World Series in four long years.

Another good idea for a Red Sox T-shirt:


October 17th, 2004, 09:33 AM
The Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/

Naturally, it's a disaster

By Eric Wilbur, Boston.com Staff | October 16, 2004

Oh, so NOW you want the Twins. Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

This series is over. Baseball in Boston is over for another season. If you headed to the game this evening, you’re forgiven for leaving in the seventh. Not to avoid traffic. To avoid watching the Yankees celebrate on your team’s home turf.

Last night the bats finally came alive. Too little to late in what was an all-time ugly 19-8 win. This time it was that vaunted Red Sox pitching staff that fell apart. You remember, the one that had Boston “favored” in this ALCS. I suppose the Yankees winning is an “upset” then.

This wasn’t a baseball game. It was a deflating pinball wizard of an all too common disaster in these parts. When the game was more than three hours old, it was in the seventh inning, running at an excruciating pace. Even worse for Sox fans who had longer to watch their team fall into a 3-0 hole. Stay away from Manhattan for some time. The nausea is going to be overwhelming. Doubly so if you try one of those hot dog vendors.

There will be plenty of eulogies over the next couple days, so we’ll spare you one here now. But know this. This Red Sox team, the vanilla Red Sox for nearly half a season, choked at the wrong moment. The Yankees are their Daddy for reasons unknown. As one New York fan on the Manhattan subway following Boston’s loss in Game 2 put it, “You take those players, put pinstripes on them, and they win the World Series.”

And he’s right. We don’t know why he’s right, but he is.

It could be a nuclear winter for the Boston Red Sox roster. But we’ll discuss that at some other time. For now enjoy your last chance this year to watch what was admittedly a fun Boston team. Then prepare to assume your normal position for the winter, wondering where the hell it all went wrong.

Seeing as we’re sure after the National Anthem most of you ran out and picked up the Cowsills’ greatest hits and were forced to miss the game, here’s a recap…

First Inning: After spending nine hours over the past two days at a Fenway Park with less action than my post-prom party experience, and more than 68 hours after the last pitch was thrown in this series, Bronson Arroyo unleashes a first-pitch strike to Derek Jeter. Jeter backs away from the plate like it’s far too inside because, well, that’s what Jeter does on EVERY PITCH.

Following a Jeter walk, Alex Rodriguez drives him in with a double down the left field line. The only chance Manny Ramirez has at throwing Jeter out at home is that he’s not Johnny Damon. It’s not enough.

Hideki Matsui plants a 1-2 pitch into the bullpens in right field, and it’s 3-0 Yankees less than 10 minutes into the game. Arroyo is not confusing anyone, as the Yankee bats are swatting his pitches around Fenway. In fact, the only person he’s confused in the whole park is Tim McCarver, who still can’t figure out his name.

I’m seated in the makeshift right field press section the Sox trot out come ALCS time. In Section 3. Should this concern me, particularly after Dan Shaughnessy rode back from New York Thursday on Flight 1918? Maybe this is all a ruse and there’s really no coincidence to it at all. Yeah, that’s it. A ruse.

Following a Ramirez infield base hit, which must have erroneously put it into his head that he is indeed, fast, David Ortiz singles to right, and Manny makes like the Energizer bunny for third. No contest. It may have been the first time Dale Sveum tried to stop a runner all year.

Second Inning: The temptation of free cornrows, as one barber salon was dishing out early yesterday morning on Lansdowne Street, really had the gerbil working overtime on my way into the office. Then I remembered the whole balding thing and decided against, thinking I might look like something out of “Hellraiser.”

Trot Nixon puts the first jolt of caffeine into the sold out crowd with a two-run bomb to right that cuts New York’s lead to one. The first “Yankees Suck” chant also breaks out. The highly offended among us try to explain that it’s not true. Yeah, neither is McDonald’s, “I’m lovin’ it.” So what?

The crowd really lets Kevin Brown have it, chanting his name. I wonder if Brown likes being the center of attention of the city of Boston. After all, just last year he was in Los Angeles, sitting under a palm tree with barely enough money to rent a yacht to Catalina.

RIGHT NOW! Kevin Brown is getting hammered.

Jeter bobbles a ball, and it’s 4-3 Sox. Questions begin to arise about the man’s deity.

Third Inning: Back to the Cowsills, who in addition to the Anthem, sang their hit, “Hair,” which I guess is apropos with this band of free-flowing locks Red Sox. But who exactly is lining up the singers for these ALCS games? Last year, Joey McIntyre and Michael Bolton were roundly booed during their renditions, and the ‘Sills (the inspiration for the Patridge Family!) didn’t exactly receive an outpouring of acknowledgement from the Fenway fans.

Then again, I guess it’s one less day that the Dropkick Murphys perform.

Which brings to mind a suggestions reader Steve Sylven submitted: “Hey Eric- Now that the Sox have proclaimed themselves "idiots" do you think we can implement a new theme song? I'm thinking we go with Jane's Addiction's "Idiots Rule" and finally dropkick the Murphy's over the Green Monster? I can't stand the thought of winning it all this year and having to hear Tessie for the rest of my lifetime.”

I like it. Although I’m sure when Charles Steinberg hears the lyrics, it won’t fly. Where’s Dickie Barrett when you need him most?

A-Rod plants one over the left field wall and ties the game back up. A couple more hits later, Terry Francona makes his way to yank Arroyo, who obviously doesn’t have it. Ramiro Mendoza makes his way to the mound, and actually receives applause from eight fans down the first base line.

In the ALDS, Arroyo threw the best start of all Boston starters. This series, by far the worst with two-plus innings, allowing six runs. As Chris Berman would call a strikeout, “Ughagh.”

Torre lifts Brown after just two innings, in favor of Javier Vazquez. We can only assume this is because Ja-Ve-Air is tougher to chant.

Fourth Inning: It is 10 p.m. and I did just write fourth inning correct? At the rate this one is going, it’ll be a nice little three hour nap before we’re all back here again tomorrow.

Which reminds me…must tape “Desperate Housewives.”

They ran out of Swiss Miss up here and I thought more than a few of the New York media guys were going to lose it. Like BA Baracus before he flies.

Sheffield. Bomb. 9-6. It is THE FOURTH INNING.

Triple. 11-6. FOURTH INNING. This game in the end is going to have more runs than your average day at Taco Bell.

Fifth Inning: Before the game, Howie Long, in town for Sunday’s Patriots-Seahawks game, and the rest of the FOX NFL crew were hanging out down by the Red Sox dugout. Long was giving Mets pitcher Al Leiter, who by all accounts has been great in the booth, some advice about the broadcasting business. Hopefully he passed some on to McCarver.

They should have Francona miked for this game. I can only imagine the Boston manager. “Get an out. Please, can’t someone get a &^%$#@& out?” 13-6 Yankees. The 19 runs combined thus far set an ALCS record for most runs in a game. Can we mention it is the FIFTH INNING?

Sixth Inning: Fans in right field start to chant, “We want Tanyon,” as in Worcester’s own Tanyon Sturtze. Speaking of the Sturtzes, The Newark Ledger had a piece Friday about how they were forced to convert to the dark side after their son was traded by Tampa Bay to New York. There is good news for Tanyon’s family though. His performance this season for the Yankees pretty much assures them they can go back to rooting for the Sox once the season is over.

By golly, we’ve had our first inning last less than 45 minutes. Now we’re cooking.

Seventh Inning: Mark Bellhorn picked a fine time for one of his worst games of the season. A strikeout hat trick, and now he can’t squeeze a pop fly in the top of the inning. Time for Lobel to whip out those “Pokey would have had it” bumper stickers again.

As the Yankees run it to 16-6, fans start cheering, “Let’s go Patriots.” Thousands start to file out toward the exit.

Seventh inning stretch at 11:32. This is ridiculous.

Jason Varitek homers to make it 17-8. Not exactly the moment that makes the columnists here start to re-write their pieces to alter the outcome.

Eighth inning: It’s the eighth. One more inning to go. That’s really all the commentary I have left at this point.

Sweet Caroline is a heck of a lot less peppy tonight for some reason.

Ninth Inning: Hooray!!!!!

By the time this game ends, there are going to be about 17 people left here at the rate folks are rushing to the gates, unable to take the pain anymore.

Matsui homers for two more. Don’t these guys want to go to their hotel already?

Twenty-one hits by New York tie record for an ALCS game. Boston had 21 against Roger Clemens and New York in 1999.

Twenty-two hits by New York are a new record for hits in an ALCS game.

It was the longest game in ALCS history. And quite possibly the worst.

Apparently this won't be the year the Sox enjoy a pregame ceremony at Foxborough. How many times are they going to have to invite those guys here without a return trip?

Seeing as we’re sure after the National Anthem most of you ran out and picked up the Cowsills’ greatest hits and were forced to miss the game, here’s a recap…

Like I said...HAIRBALL

October 17th, 2004, 12:59 PM
The Red Sox make the perfect adversary for the YANKEES and Yankee fans. What other team hates them more? What fans hate the Yankees more? (sorry METS fans). What fans have a better reason to hate them? It makes for the perfect rivalry, even if this series is somewhat of a letdown. At least we got some fun t-shirts out of it.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

The BOSTON GLOBE's take on the fans/series...


Jon Remy ("S" - no relation to RemDawg), Max Schonberger ("O"), and Lee Smith ("X" - no relation to the former Sox closer) want the Yankees to win, but can't bring themselves to root for them against Minnesota.


Diehard fans Jim Moonan and Joe Bennett from Milton say they definitely want New York next so they can beat them on the way to a World Series.


Jenna Medeiros and Meaghan Connolly from Framingham State college want vindication for what the Yankees did to the Sox last year... but they won't root for them to beat the Twins.


Scott Argir (L) and Steve Vafides from Framingham said "bring on the Yankees because it's payback time." They also said it doesn't matter. File under: flip-flop.



Ralph Bracco of North Babylon, New York, responds to Curt Schilling’s hope to shut up 55,000 New York fans at Yankee Stadium by inquiring about the rest of the yard’s capacity. Schilling was rocked for six runs over three innings, doing anything but shutting Yankee fans down.


John Palmieri of Yonkers, asks, “What rivalry?”



Rich Tershuny, of Manhattan, proudly displays the MLB-licensed t-shirt that caused the ire of Red Sox Nation. The t-shirt was pulled from shelves following complaints.


Although there were still plenty of makeshift “Daddy” t-shirts as this Yankee fan demonstrates. There are sure to be plenty more on the mound tonight when Pedro Martinez takes the hill in Game 2.


Dave McDonald of Spring Lake, NJ proudly displays the very close knockoff of the original and controversial Major League Baseball t-shirt . The shirts were being handed out prior to the game by a New Jersey radio station to anyone who would jump up and down and repeat, “Who’s Your Daddy?”


Yes, Darth Vader has been at Yankee Stadium before rooting on the Evil Empire, but with Pedro Martinez calling the Yankees his “Daddy,” his presence has taken on a whole new meaning.


Vinny Milano of Queens hawks “Pedro’s Daddy” t-shirts outside of Yankee Stadium with, who else, but The Babe playing the part.


Food vendors set up outside the park got into the act as well.


As poorly as Pedro pitched against the Yankees in back-to-back outings last month, we highly doubt Carlos Acevedo of Hartford, Conn., is in fact Martinez’s father.


As do we doubt Lenny Lipschitz of the Bronx is of any relation.



The Lighter Side took a stroll down Lansdowne Street early this morning in search of a little Red Sox fever. What did we find?

For starters, there was a Newbury Street salon that had set up shop in front of Gate C to offer free cornrows to fans who wanted to emulate tonight's ALCS Game 3 starter Bronson Arroyo. And we also stumbled into what could very well be the epicenter of Red Sox Nation.


First, a quick look at the die-hards getting cornrows put in their hair. Here, stylists from Salon Marc Harris transform Leominster resident Michael Paul's 'do from caveman to cornrows. Erin Connors (also from Leominster) gets into the spirit as well


How do you pass 22 hours in a tent on Lansdowne Street? Playing some Texas Hold 'Em, that's how.

Meet the self-proclaimed original Yankee Hater from Mattapan (left), Bernie Tulip from Saugus (center), and Tom Demetron from Kenmore Square. Tulip and Demetron claim to have a little more at stake than most of those in the Lansdowne Village.

"We're definitely losing our jobs today," said Demetron. "We work right there (points to a nearby Best Buy store). We work there just to be close to Fenway. Today, we're not going in, and they know where we are."



The Prudential building displayed its traditional "Go Sox" message for Saturday night’s Game 3 at Fenway Park, which would turn out to be one of the most disappointing losses in Sox postseason history.


Damon Disciples Branden Hutchinson and Matt Anders predicted before the game that “tonight’s the night” for their man Johnny to break out of his ALCS slump. Maybe next time, fellas.


Brad Howe and Matt Thibeault led the cheers for section 26 during Boston’s second-inning rally.


Manny Ramirez and Pedro Martinez encourage Fenway partisans to “Keep the Faith” as they file out of Fenway after Saturday’s loss. Facing a 3-0 deficit, faith may be hard to come by Sunday morning in Red Sox Nation.


Hate the Red Sox or hate the Yankees, you have to love this rivalry.... :lol:

October 18th, 2004, 11:26 AM
Great photos!

Anyway, the sweep would have been humiliating, but it's almost better to let them win one - it's more painful when they think they actually have a chance.

October 19th, 2004, 12:29 PM
October 17, 2004

Maybe Red Sox Fans Enjoy Their Pain

HERE'S a soothing thought, Red Sox fans: Losing isn't everything.

True, social scientists who study sports have found plenty of reasons for fans to root for a winner, like basking in the reflected glory of the team, finding a community of friends, even buffering oneself against feelings of despair. The sudden pleasure of watching a walk-off home run or overtime goal can touch the deepest emotional centers of the brain, research suggests, and even make some supporters feel more socially confident and attractive.

But those who are repeatedly denied the pleasures of winning find other compensations, which psychologists say go beyond the shallow charms of being simply a lovable underdog. "Long-suffering is not quite the right phrase, because at some level, I think, we do like it," said Christopher Peterson, a psychologist at the University of Michigan who is a Red Sox and Cubs fan. "So much of the human condition is about striving."

Make no mistake: the Red Sox nation wants nothing more than to win it all, shake off the team's history and throw a party to transcend all hangovers. And a defeat of the New York Yankees might be even sweeter.

But years of futility forces fans to express their identification in ways that go beyond merely celebrating wins and mourning losses. Loyalty to the club at all costs, an interest in the history of the team and emotional resilience often count more to supporters of cursed teams than victorious ones, said Dr. Christian End, a psychologist at Xavier University in Cincinnati who studies the relation between sports affiliation and self-presentation.

And these fans can be very appealing. In one study among 87 college students, Dr. End found that supporters of losing squads are if anything viewed more positively by their peers than fans of successful teams.

"No one can accuse you of being a lightweight fan," Dr. End said. "You've creatively changed the dimensions of comparison to include not just the outcome, the score, but measures of character."

People who root for losers also quickly learn how to explain and adjust to failure, skills that psychologists say are emotionally protective. Fans often come up with a short list of bad omens, wrong-headed decisions and misfortune.

"Injuries, officiating, the weather, some player's attitude, the curse - fans of unsuccessful clubs are particularly good at finding explanations other than their team is a bunch of chokers," said Dr. Daniel L. Wann, a Cub fan and psychologist at Murray State University in Murray, Ky., who has spent a career studying sports affiliation. Some explanations are no more than excuses or superstition. Many Cubs supporters still blame a fan who interfered with a foul ball during last year's National League playoffs for sinking the entire season, despite costly errors made by players on the field.

In special cases, fans agree on the cause of the loss, like the 1986 World Series, when Bill Buckner, the Red Sox first baseman, missed a ground ball, allowing the New York Mets to win. Other legitimate explanations, like injuries to key players, allow fans to take their team off the hook, soften the emotional blow of losing and salvage their emotional investment in the franchise.

This ability to consider multiple and combined reasons for failure - of spreading blame, if appropriate - can be especially helpful to people who blame themselves for things they have very little control over. It's a strategy that comes in very handy in other areas of personal life, said Dr. David Zald, a psychologist at Vanderbilt University. For instance, it can help any parent explain to a 7-year-old why her soccer team just lost by five goals.

Finally, supporting a losing team gives fans a psychological trump card. The long-denied supporters of teams like the Chicago White Sox, the Los Angeles Kings, the Colorado Rockies - the list is too long print, but you know who you are - know that one day, their team will almost certainly win it all, and the magnificence of that coming victory grows in the imagination with every blown save, every fumble, every mind-boggling collapse.

They know, too, that the fantasies of this deliverance are so cherished that the championship itself, if and when it happens, may somehow fall short.

The party will end, the curse vanish, and there will be no more heroic striving toward a paradise not yet found, but therefore not yet lost.

October 21st, 2004, 01:23 AM
Did I ever mention I grew up in Boston? ;)

October 21st, 2004, 10:01 AM
Let me be the first to say:


Ha to all you mourning Yankee fans.

October 21st, 2004, 10:24 AM


October 21st, 2004, 12:03 PM
I guess we derserve that for all the years of abuse. But remember, you've been down this road before.

As for you Stern: The expected, typical response from Mets fans - who usually lose interest in baseball by Labor Day. Quite different from '86, when most Yankee fans wanted the Mets to win.

October 21st, 2004, 01:01 PM
For some reason I never had the urge to flip a car over last night.

October 21st, 2004, 01:01 PM
But remember, you've been down this road before.
I can see a Pedro/Rocket game 7 where Clemens will pitch a no-hitter or some craziness like that.
It's funny, the most surprising thing would be a Sox World Series victory. At this point I can't even fathom it, much less hope for it. I almost feel guilty for even entertaining the notion. :?

October 21st, 2004, 01:46 PM
Personally, the only good to come out of this is a repair of my decades-long friendship with a Boston native, which was put under intense pressure after Aaron Boone. His wife advised me to "call back in a few days." After enduring his moronic rantings last night (I should have tossed the phone), all is well.

Of course, if the Red Sox lose (tsk tsk, you've assumed Houston), it will somehow be my fault.

October 21st, 2004, 02:18 PM
i really hope houston wins game 7 to face off against boston. i am a die hard yankee fan but they deserved it. they played with so much heart, something the yankee team lacked. If houston wins, i would love to see pettite and clemens celebrate, which would be a huge slap for steinbrenner. yankees had NO ptching what so ever. All that money WASTED on AROD.... atleast we'll entertain ourselves with all the changes for next season. I could go on for a while about what was wrong with the yankees, but oh well its over. congrats to boston.

October 21st, 2004, 03:12 PM
Money wasted on A-Rod?. His off year had rather good stats, and he played flawlessly at 3rd - harder then a SS to 2nd switch.

That money had nothing to do with the lack of pitching. Clemens retired, and Pettitte wanted to leave.Who was avilable? At the time Vasquez for Nick Johnson was the best move available. A guy with good stuff and a winning record on a lousy team, but you have no way of knowing how he will perform under pressure.

Same thing with Contrearas. The trade for Louiza was simply salary shedding, since his contract is up, and maybe getting someone who could at least give them innings and take pressure off the bullpen.

The offense was fine, except they didn't play "little ball," but you can't do that without pitching - not dominant pitching, but enough to keep the game close.

The defense was better than last year.

The bullpen was better than last year, except it was overworked as the season wound down.

They need to pick up a quality starter, hopefully a lefthander who won't soil his pants with 2 runners on base.

October 21st, 2004, 08:25 PM
I knew it was over when Torre brought Vasquez in - with the bases loaded, no less - in the second inning. I don't like this guy pitching with the bases empty. Oh well...

There's no baseball tonight, but you'll get no complaints from this YANKEES fan. In the end, this series did turn out to be one for the record books, in more was than one. And just as no one expected the YANKS to go up 3-0 over the SOX, no one expected the SOX to come back and take the series. Plenty of drama in this one.

Other than the sickening thought of watching Boston celebrate (that awful town), it was a great and entertaining series that didn't look to be in the beginning.

But make no mistake RED SOX fans: by no means is the curse over. Even if the SOX did manage to win the world series this year, full order will be restored next year. The baseball gods were not pleased with George Steinbrenner's failed attempt to win the championship without pitching, no matter how close he came to succeeding. So enjoy it now, it won't last...



David Ortiz, right, celebrates as the team returns to Fenway Park in Boston early Thursday morning after beating the New York Yankees 10-3 in Game 7 of the AL Championship Series.


Boston police officers try to calm down celebrating Red Sox fans outside Fenway Park


Boston police officers put out a fire outside Fenway Park following a 10-3 win against the Yankees


People at the University of Massachusetts celebrate the Boston Red Sox's victory over the New York Yankees



Red Sox fans celebrate on Landsdowne Street


Red Sox fans celebrate at the Cask 'n Flagon following a 10-3 win


Red Sox fans celebrate on a billboard outside of Fenway Park following a 10-3 win against the Yankees


Boston Red Sox fans dance on a car as they celebrate outside Boston's Fenway Park moments after the Red Sox beat the New York Yankees


Boston Red Sox fans celebrate outside Boston's Fenway Park moments after the Red Sox beat the New York Yankees

October 21st, 2004, 09:16 PM
I guess we derserve that for all the years of abuse. But remember, you've been down this road before.

As for you Stern: The expected, typical response from Mets fans - who usually lose interest in baseball by Labor Day. Quite different from '86, when most Yankee fans wanted the Mets to win.

Very True. Zippy, what's the difference between the Mets and the Yankees??? You can get a hot-dog at Yankee stadium in October.

October 22nd, 2004, 10:04 AM
Who knew Boston was the new Detroit?




October 22, 2004 -- A pretty college coed who dreamed of becoming a TV reporter died of a severe head wound inflicted when Boston cops clashed with rowdy Red Sox revelers outside Fenway Park early yesterday.

The horrific fatality capped a night of mayhem by Boston fans for which cops were completely unprepared, witnesses said.

Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year- old junior majoring in broadcast journalism at Emerson College, was killed after being hit in the eye by a projectile containing pepper spray fired as officers tried to control mobs outside the ballpark, said Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole.

O'Toole last night said the department "accepts full responsibility for the death [and is] devastated by this tragedy. This terrible event should never have happened."

But she defended the police against charges of being unprepared, saying the force learned its lesson from riots that claimed one life after the Patriots won the Super Bowl in February.

Moments after the Red Sox' 10-3 ALCS win early Thursday, some 80,000 delirious Boston faithful poured out from bars and clubs. Fans went out of control, burning a car, hurling bottles and clashing with riot cops, resulting in 16 injuries and eight arrests.

One cop's nose was broken by a flying bottle and officials are considering banning alcohol sales during the World Series games.

The chaos reached its fiery climax on Boylston Street, a block from Fenway, when a few hundred drunken hooligans attacked a parked Nissan Xterra that bore New York plates.
The crowd smashed its windows and set it on fire.

Snelgrove, who lived in nearby Brookline, was a talented young student who dreamed of being an "Entertainment Tonight"-type reporter and was working to lose her Boston accent.

Snelgrove's father, Rick Snelgrove, was outraged.

"What happened to her should not happen to any American citizen going to any type of game, no matter what," he said, holding up a photo of his smiling daughter.

"She loved the Red Sox . . . Awful things happen to good people. My daughter was an exceptional person."

Boston Mayor Thomas Menino said, "We will take responsibility for what happened, [but] we also will move on the hoodlums who were out in the streets of our city."

Cops has similar problems all across the state and the rest of New England, many of them on college campuses. Menino called on the colleges to expel the unruly students.

October 22nd, 2004, 10:35 AM
It has always surprised me that this sort of idiocy has never occurred in New York; not from the present perspective, but the "Bronx Zoo" days. In places that were less associated with crime and urban decay, such as Denver, fans trashed the city.

You can point out that Boston has been waiting a long time for this, but when the Rangers finally won the Stanley Cup, it had been a 54 year wait. The police had expected trouble, but there was none.

October 22nd, 2004, 12:19 PM
Speaking from past experience, the extremely high percentage of college students in Boston and particularly around Fenway plays a part in this.

October 22nd, 2004, 12:29 PM
One cop's nose was broken by a flying bottle and officials are considering banning alcohol sales during the World Series games.
No way this'll ever happen. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/10/22/city_may_ban_sales_of_drinks_in_series?mode=PF)

'Nonlethal' guns causing alarm
By Beth Daley and Jonathan Saltzman, Globe Staff *|* October 22, 2004

Police departments across the country are turning to less lethal weapons, like the high-pressure pepper spray gun used in Boston on Lansdowne Street, to control crowds or dangerous suspects.

But the weapons are raising concern because they are sometimes doing exactly what they are designed not to, causing death or serious injuries.

Since 1999, the high-pressure guns that fire pepper spray or pepper-powder-filled plastic balls have been adopted by more than 2,500 of the nation's police departments.

"There is certainly a safe range for these, but they can cause irreversible damage," said Glenn Shwaery, director of the University of New Hampshire's Nonlethal Technology Innovation Center, speaking about nonlethal weapons in general. "It does give you an option between using nothing and lethal force, but the technology is not where we want it to be."

According to Commissioner Kathleen M. O'Toole, Boston police fired "projectiles designated to break upon impact, dosing the target with OC spray," referring to oleoresin capsicum, an extract of pepper plants that causes severe, burning pain, as well as wheezing and gagging.

The term nonlethal weapon is used for a class of devices designed to neutralize but not to kill their target.

A Boston police officer who is familiar with tactics and nonlethal weapons and who spoke on condition he not be identified, said grenadiers are trained to fire the so-called pepper balls at the chests of people because that allows a cloud of pepper spray to rise into the targets' faces. He said the pepper-spray-filled plastic balls are less accurate than some other nonlethal weapons and that the rounds sometimes curve in flight.

Boston Police officials did not specify the company that manufactured the pepper-filled ball used by Boston's force, but a spokesman for San Diego-based Pepperball Technologies confirmed yesterday that it sells guns and the pepper powder-filled balls to Boston Police.

The spokesman, director of marketing Chris Andrews, said the company would not comment on its products' use here until Boston police finish investigating the death of a young woman early yesterday.

The marble-sized Pepperballs travel about 300 feet per second. They shatter on impact, dispersing eye-stinging pepper powder.

"Our product saves lives," Andrews said. He said his company's product has never been known to cause a serious injury and does not have enough energy to pierce the skin or eyeball. "The best way to describe it is like a paintball but travels a little bit quicker and delivers pepper."

There is a second pepper product on the market that can fire with much more force and employs a spray of oleoresin capsicum, rather than a powder. FN Herstal company, which makes that product, could not be reached last night and it was not clear whether Boston police use it.

Police around the country have acquired thousands of these weapons, in an effort to avoid using guns or other types of lethal force.

No accurate statistics exist for any injuries from pepper-filled balls or other types of nonlethal weapons.

While the pepper powder has not caused great controversy, the spray has set off concerns in recent years. In 2000, the United Nations Committee against Torture criticized the United States for the misuse of pepper spray by local police forces. A federal appeals judge in San Francisco that year said OC spray may in some circumstances constitute "unreasonable use of force."

The problem, scientists say, is that police may not exercise the same restraint they would use with more lethal weapons, and that they may not be trained properly. One concern is that police may fire the weapons at too close a range and harm people who are frail or sensitive.

"One of the first things people point out when they critique this field is that the very term nonlethal is a misnomer," said Steven Aftergood, senior research analyst with the Federation of American Scientists who studies military nonlethal weaponry.

"Almost anything can be used to kill a person, and too many of these weapons lend themselves to overuse."

Manufacturers say it's safe to fire both OC spray balls and the powder balls at close range, even at a person touching the gun's muzzle, although they acknowledge that may result in severe bruising. Often police aim at a structure near their target, so the spray disperses over a crowd as the balls break apart.

Other than the pepperballs, Boston police also use beanbags, teabag-size projectiles filled with tiny lead pellets that are fired at far higher speeds than pepperballs.

It's unclear what other nonlethal weapons Boston police use. The department has a stockpile of stun grenades, rubber bullets, pepper spray, and tear gas that was acquired before the Democratic National Convention.*

© Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

"Our product saves lives," Andrews said. He said his company's product has never been known to cause a serious injury and does not have enough energy to pierce the skin or eyeball. "The best way to describe it is like a paintball but travels a little bit quicker and delivers pepper."
I don't know if any of you have ever been hit by a paintball, but I think that a hit in the eye on a cold night by an old or particularly hard paintball could EASILY blind if not kill.

October 22nd, 2004, 01:01 PM
There was a report on 60 Minutes about the use of Tasers - devices that shoot two wire attached darts and apply a 50,000 volt charge. The issue is the same as the pepper balls. Police Depts are advised that these devices are non-lethal, and they interpret that as never causing death.

While they are always preferable to using a gun, a police officer can use a gun in a non-lethal manner, such as shooting someone in the leg. What generally stops the officer from doing that is the knowledge that the gun is a lethal weapon.

In some cases, the choice isn't pepperball or gun, but pepperball or nothing.

October 22nd, 2004, 03:00 PM
Wed. night I was at a bar that was probably 80% Yankee fans and 20% Boston fans. Despite the partisanship, Yankee fans walked right over after the game and congratulated them, bought them shots, wound up keeping the bar open past 4am and having fun.....completely opposite of how Yankee fans are treated in Boston. We shook hands, bought them drinks and took our insults. Like you've all said, Yankee fans may be silent but no one is flipping over cars, and no one is wandering aimlessly in the streets with dazed looks. I've been inundated with eat-shit-and-die e-mails from Boston fans and Met fans, but will take the high road and just extend congratulations.

It's not a shock that the Red Sox won the pennant this year, nor that they beat the Yankees - that's all happened before. It's that they came back from a 3-0 deficit and won. Really, hats-off to the Red Sox for that. Now it's the World Series, if they don't win it this year after that comeback, they still deserve their reputation as the biggest losers and choke artists. May the curse be with them!

October 22nd, 2004, 03:23 PM
^In other words, "Congrats, now die suckers!". ;) :lol:

October 24th, 2004, 08:43 AM

Mickey Mantle's Restaurant Changes Name To Honor Red Sox Victory

OCTOBER 21ST, 2004

A Midtown Manhattan restaurant named after a legendary Yankee is changing its stripes in honor of the Red Sox's American League Championship Series win.

On Thursday, Mickey Mantle's Restaurant changed its name to Ted William's Restaurant and Sports Bar until the end of the World Series.

The restaurant's owner says Mantle appeared to him in a dream and told him to make the change.

“Mickey was very close to Ted Williams. Ted was Mickey's hero. Last night, after having a horrible nightmare and waking up in a sweat over the Yankees losing, I got this epiphany,” said Bill Liederman. “This message from Mickey came into my head, and Mickey said, ‘Look, the Red Sox did a tremendous job. They came back from 3-0 - let Ted Williams have the restaurant for the series.’"

Mickey Mantle opened the restaurant back in 1987.

Wednesday would have also been Mickey Mantle's birthday.

Copyright © 2004 NY1 News.

I wonder, if the...


October 28th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Fenway Home Opener April 11, 2005
Ring Ceremony and Championship Flag Raising
Visiting Team: New York Yankees


October 28th, 2004, 02:48 PM
Hell has frozen over.

October 28th, 2004, 02:54 PM
I personally saw a pig fly down 7th Ave. this morning. ;)

October 28th, 2004, 08:52 PM
To restore Ma'at to the Universe, we must:

1. Send GW Bush back to Texas.

2. Relegate the Red Sox to their rightful place as baseball also-rans. Of course, it will take many years for the Red Sox to reaquire their patina of doom and futiility. In the meantime, we will have to be content with their being just ordinary losers...

like the Mets.

Paging Carlos Beltran.

October 28th, 2004, 09:01 PM

August 11th, 2005, 11:44 AM
Ball & postseason
appear just out of reach

New York Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com
Thursday, August 11th, 2005

For the Yankees, who are losing ground in the pennant races faster than they are losing pitchers, there can be little consolation over having played head-to-head and pitch-to-pitch with the best team in baseball these past three days.

The bottom line is they lost two out of three one-run ballgames to the Chicago White Sox, a team that prides itself on winning these sort of nail-biters with a major league high 26. What had to be even more disturbing to the Yankee brass was the fact that two outstanding pitching performances by their heretofore unheralded reinforcement starters, Shawn Chacon and Aaron Small, went for naught.

Maybe if Mariano Rivera had Aaron Rowand playing center field for him yesterday he doesn't come up a loser. Heaven knows, the White Sox center fielder caught just about everything in the air at Yankee Stadium these last three days except the tossed popcorn boxes. But when Juan Uribe lifted his one-out fly ball into right-center in the 10th inning, Bernie Williams got his customary slow break and there was no doubt it was going to fall safely. In the end, it wasn't even close, and as Bernie retrieved the ball at the warning track, Uribe streaked around the bases for a triple.

In a game like this, that's all it took.

"This was very exciting baseball these past three days," White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen summed up. "We know when we come in here against this team we gotta bring our 'A' game. One mistake and they take advantage."

So did he feel his guy, Rowand, could have caught Uribe's ball?

"I'll say yes because I want him to win a Gold Glove," Guillen said before catching himself. "But no, to say that would be to put down Bernie and Bernie's my friend. I know they're looking for a center fielder over there, but that ball was hit well and to the right spot."

Maybe so, but Rowand had to cover even more real estate to catch Robinson Cano's fly ball in front of the 385-foot sign in right-center Monday night. Joe Torre would only say it didn't look at first to him as if the ball was hit that hard, adding, "Bernie did the best he could."

At this point, Bernie's faded game is the least of Torre's concerns. The owner, George Steinbrenner, is back in town and starting to publicly carp about his manager's pitching decisions. Torre has known from the day he signed his first contract here nearly 10 years ago that this comes with the territory. Nevertheless, he has been hard-pressed to hide his irritation whenever it occurs.

Yesterday, Torre deferred his response to Steinbrenner's barb Tuesday night until "after the season," preferring to allow reporters to do their own research about his decision to allow his lefty relief specialist Alan Embree to face the White Sox's righty-hitting cleanup man Paul Konerko in the ninth inning. The result was disastrous, with Konerko connecting for what proved to be the game-deciding homer. But as Torre explained later, the White Sox power-hitting first baseman had had less success against lefties.

Sure enough, the stats (Konerko is hitting .218 with 18 strikeouts vs. lefties as opposed to .283 with 21 of his 28 homers vs. righties) bear out Torre. Left unsaid was the fact Embree had retired all eight hitters he had faced on the recent Yankee road trip, including Toronto's power-hitting righties, Shea Hillenbrand and Vernon Wells, and Torre has pretty much lost faith in the struggling Tanyon Sturtze.

That, too, was of no consolation. Not with the Yankees losing ground to the Red Sox, A's and Angels like this. Not when there is only one day off from now until Labor Day with three more games against these same White Sox as well as three against the resurgent A's, all on the road, where the Yankees are 26-29.

Perhaps Torre knows that if he doesn't get this $200million team into the playoffs there will be fireworks aplenty at season's end and the likelihood that he and The Boss will have it out once and for all. For now, he just doesn't want Steinbrenner to become a distraction from the business at hand. That's easier said than done when his team loses excruciating games like these last two to the White Sox.

And now Carl Pavano is officially done for the season and Jaret Wright is supposedly coming back on Monday. This is cause for celebration? The fact is, Wright wasn't pitching all that well before he got hurt and it would seem nuts to have him replace Small, who has been nothing but superb (2.87 ERA) in his four starts.

It is understandable if no one around the Yankees is thinking clearly right now. The season is starting to get away from them and nothing they do to try to prevent it seems to be enough. Yesterday, they could only stare numbly as the final out of the game - a fly ball to deep center field by Cano - came down softly into Rowand's glove.

August 11th, 2005, 12:12 PM
I think perhaps a better poll question would be, will any NY baseball team make the playoffs this year?

August 11th, 2005, 07:12 PM
Sox-Yanks won’t debut until May in 2006

By Boston.com Staff | August 11, 2005 (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/08/11/sox_yanks_won146t_debut_until_may_in_2006/)

Even in the middle of a pennant race, it’s never too early to start looking toward next season in Red Sox Nation.

A major league source revealed to the Boston Globe’s Gordon Edes the Red Sox’ tentative 2006 schedule, which includes a stretch in which the Red Sox and Yankees face off 11 times in just over a month. The schedule still must be approved by the 30 team owners and is subject to change.

....Unlike this season, when the Red Sox and Yankees squared off six times in April, the rivals won’t meet until May for the first of their 19 regular-season encounters.

The first series between Boston and New York will be contested at Fenway on May 1-2. Just over a week later, the Sox head south to the Bronx to meet the Yankees from May 9-11. Then it’s back to Fenway for a three-game set May 22-24, and they’ll finish the busy stretch in New York from June 6-8.

Oddly, none of these games take place on the weekend.

However, the teams will wrap things up with a pair of four-game weekend sets in late summer, one in August (18-21, at Fenway), and one in September (14-17, at Yankee Stadium).

....The source told Edes the schedule is subject to some minor revisions by the clubs, and has not yet been signed off on by the networks (ESPN and Fox). However, only minor tweaks are foreseen.

September 12th, 2005, 10:38 AM
I went to my first Yankees game Friday night. It was GREAT! I had a wonderful time! I cant wait to go back! Plus, they won! LOL

September 12th, 2005, 11:27 AM
Red Sox. Pretty good first time.

Impressions of the Stadium? Where did you sit?

September 12th, 2005, 02:52 PM
We sat on the first base side. About 5 rows back from the field. Not bad seats at all. I thought the stadium was fine. It wasnt bad, IMO. I thought it was impressive. It has so much legacy and history. It was like "Im here, wow" I loved every second of it.

September 16th, 2005, 04:15 PM

September 16th, 2005, 05:21 PM
Are you going to any of the last 3 games?

September 18th, 2005, 05:36 PM
No, I dont know when Ill go again. I cant wait though!

September 19th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Sadly, no.

BTW, if there is a tiebreaker game, the Yankees won the toss and will host in NY.


September 19th, 2005, 01:22 PM
I'm going to do what I can to go - but no tickets as of now.

September 19th, 2005, 02:35 PM
If there is a tie at the end of the season, 2 things can happen:

1. A tiebreaker game would be played only if there is no wild card involved - winner is in the playoffs, loser plays golf.

2. If there is a tie and one team would win the division and the other would be the wild card, then I think the tiebreaker is the head to head season series.

September 19th, 2005, 02:39 PM
I think the tiebreaker is the head to head season series.

And as of right now, the Yankees lead the season series

September 19th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Standings (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/standings/index.jsp?ymd=20050918)

Zippy's option #1 seems more likely since the Braves and the Red Sox have the same record, (4 CLE/KC offsetting 6 CLE/CHI).

This is going to be SOME TWO WEEKS!

September 22nd, 2005, 11:27 PM
David Ortiz is fat.

September 23rd, 2005, 01:22 AM

September 23rd, 2005, 01:31 AM
That is a riot!

September 23rd, 2005, 07:17 AM
It's not a purse...It's European.

September 23rd, 2005, 02:52 PM

September 23rd, 2005, 08:46 PM
Varitek was real tough attacking A-Rod in full catcher's gear, including mask. Why didn't he just hit him with his purse?

That loser is one of the few guys cocky enough to actually wear a "C" on his jersey signifying that he's the captain. You don't see Derek Jeter with one, but if he did, it would stand for something in addition to captain. Class.

September 24th, 2005, 10:23 AM
Of all the photos to choose from, that one is as poor a choice as a Yankee fan selecting a photo of Clemens beaning Piazza.

September 24th, 2005, 01:23 PM
Of all the photos to choose from, that one is as poor a choice as a Yankee fan selecting a photo of Clemens beaning Piazza.

Very true Zippy..but very typical of a Red Sox fan.

September 26th, 2005, 02:39 PM

September 27th, 2005, 06:42 AM
Geographical advantage. The same front that delayed the game in Baltimore cancelled the game in Boston. Hopefully, Toronto can split the doubleheader; they have a shot at finishing .500. The Orioles look dead.

Big loser from the rainout is Fox Sports. The scheduled pitchers for Saturday were Johnson and Schilling. Now, Wakefield will pitch Saturday. The last game of the season will be Mussina and Schilling.

The Other Sox are only 2 games up with 4 to play in Cleveland. They might not make the playoffs.

September 27th, 2005, 02:43 PM
September 27, 2005
Red Sox-Yanks a Cure for an Assortment of Ills

It is obvious by now that Yankees-Red Sox games provide ratings booster shots for any network that carries them.

The long history between the clubs, the curse that once united them, the Don Zimmer connection, the hyped-up competitiveness and the legacy of last year's American League Championship Series will play into the season-ending series at Fenway Park.

The three-game set starts Friday and will almost certainly catapult viewership upward.

This season, Yankees-Red Sox games on the YES Network have rated 24 percent above the channel's 4.5 season Nielsen average. The high point: an 11.6 rating (or 873,330 television homes) for the opening night game - the biggest rating in the four-year history of the Yankees-owned network.

All but one of YES's most recent five Yankee games rated well above the season average, peaking with a 6.6 last Tuesday against Baltimore.

On ESPN, the seven Yankees-Red Sox games produced a 1.6 (or 1.4 million TV homes), 60 percent above its baseball average. Its two Sunday night games yielded a 2.8, or 65 percent over ESPN's average.

At Fox, the three Red Sox-Yankees games on its regional schedule posted ratings that were 8 percent better than the 2.5 season average.

Not to be forgotten was the 19.4 rating Fox generated for Game 7 of the A.L.C.S. last October, the fourth consecutive game won by the Red Sox over the Yankees.

That victory sent the Red Sox to the World Series, and they defeated St. Louis to end their storied 86-year drought. The 19.4 was the highest L.C.S. rating in 13 years and the best for an A.L.C.S. in 18 years.

As antagonists, the Yankees and the Red Sox are like Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick in "The Producers" and, well, Lane and Broderick in the revival of "The Odd Couple" (the neatnik Yankees are Felix; the idiot, facially haired Red Sox are Oscar) - performers whose combined appeal is even more powerful than when they play with others.

Consider that the recent Red Sox-Yankees series in the Bronx brought in three crowds of 55,000 or more in each game from Sept. 9-11.

This weekend's series will spread the ratings wealth: Friday's game will be on Channel 9 locally and ESPN nationally; Saturday's game will be on Fox; and Sunday's game will be on YES and, tentatively, ESPN.

If the series stays meaningful, its ratings might test a newly published assessment of the power of the Red Sox and to some extent their rivalry with the Yankees. This analysis appears to show that the Red Sox, in the unusual role of the winner of decisive postseason games, possess curative powers.

Three researchers from Children's Hospital Boston, writing in the new edition of Annals of Emergency Medicine, used Nielsen ratings to prove that during the most important games of the A.L.C.S. and World Series last season, emergency room visits at six Boston hospitals declined.

They can only speculate that people stayed inside during suspenseful games and didn't get into car crashes or in the way of bullets. Or, they said, some waited out their illnesses until the Red Sox won, then headed to a hospital or their doctors.

These brave loyalists may comprise a new demographic: viewers who watch while hurt, bleeding or sneezing. Talk about armchair warriors.

"For all I know, the adrenaline rush might provide holistic benefits," said Dr. Kenneth Mandl, an attending physician at Children's Hospital's department of emergency medicine and one of the researchers.

The study said that the fewest hospital visits occurred during Games 6 and 7 of the A.L.C.S. and Game 4 of the World Series, which Boston swept from St. Louis.

Those games generated three of that postseason's four best local market ratings in Boston. An increase in visits to the emergency room occurred during games that were the lowest rated.

"We found a 30 percent swing in emergency visits between the least important games and the most important games," said Dr. Ben Reis, who initiated the study with Dr. John Brownstein from their tracking of disease clusters and symptom patterns at the six hospitals, including Children's.

But there wasn't a perfect correlation between high ratings and low emergency room visits; the most solid connection was between critical games and the reduced number of people seeking emergency help.

During the important yet not crucial Game 3 of the World Series, which posted a 54.3 rating in Boston, the third best of the postseason, emergency visits rose that night compared with the hospitals' data on nonplayoff days in 2002 and 2003.

Reis and Brownstein suggested, lightheartedly, that researchers in New York could prove the healing powers of Yankees success - and the loyalty of fans willing to defer treatment for various ailments - with a similar study.

E-mail: sportsbiz@nytimes.com

September 27th, 2005, 04:47 PM
Toronto 0..0..0..0..1..0..0..0..0..1..5..0
Boston 2..0..0..0..1..0..0..0..X..3..6..2

September 27th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Looks like you watched (or listened) to the whole game. :)

September 27th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Yeah, I listened - and saw the 8th inning at the lunch spot.

Overheard there, "Wakefield's auhn FY-AUH!" :)

September 27th, 2005, 05:26 PM
We'll bring buckets on Saturday.

Tonight's Yankee game will be shown on a big screen in Bryant Park.

Pinstripes in the Park (http://www.bryantpark.org/calendar/events/092705_pinstripes.php)

September 28th, 2005, 12:46 AM
Incredible. They all lost.

September 28th, 2005, 01:15 AM
Who'd a thunk it?

Anyway, here are how some possible scenarios would play out from an MLB article (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050925&content_id=1223384&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb).

What if the AL East and Central divisions end in ties?
Next Monday, the Red Sox would play the Yankees at Yankee Stadium and the White Sox would play the Indians at Jacobs Field. The losers would then play a Wild Card playoff game on Tuesday to determine the AL's final playoff setup. The Yankees would play the Indians at The Jake; the Red Sox would play Cleveland at Fenway Park; and all combinations against the White Sox are yet to be determined.

What if those divisions are won outright and two teams in the AL Wild Card race finish with the same records?
Next Monday, the Yankees would play the Indians at the Jake or the Red Sox would play Cleveland at Fenway Park. All combinations against the White Sox are yet to be determined.

What if the Yankees, Red Sox and Indians all finish with the same records?
The Yankees and Red Sox play in New York for the AL East title and the loser plays the Indians for the Wild Card berth on Tuesday. New York is at the Jake if the Yanks lose and the Tribe is at Fenway if the Red Sox lose.

Why, you might ask, is there a Wild Card playoff game when the Indians would have a half-game better record than the Yankees-Red Sox loser? MLB has determined that it would not be fair for a team that's tied for a division title at the end of the regular season to be displaced in the postseason by a second-place team. Thus, the mandatory Wild Card playoff game.

What if the Yankees tie the Red Sox in the AL East?
Next Monday, the Yankees would host the Red Sox, unless those two teams finish with the best records in the AL. In that case, there wouldn't be a playoff game. Both teams would make the playoffs and the first-place team is determined by the two teams' head-to-head record. As of Tuesday, the Yankees led the season series, 9-7.

September 28th, 2005, 11:02 AM
''We know it's going to come down to this weekend, it's the master plan. God's way. Yankees-Red Sox."

September 28th, 2005, 11:50 AM

Yankee fans consider last year an act of God. I think God actually coined the phrase been there; done that. So you're on your own against the Evil Empire.

September 28th, 2005, 10:50 PM
-- Major League Baseball conducted coin tosses today to determine where one-game Wild Card playoffs between the Red Sox and Chicago White Sox and the White Sox and New York Yankees would be held. Chicago won both coin tosses and would host either team in the event of a season-ending tie atop the Wild Card standings. The game would be held on Oct. 3.

September 28th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Shouldn't this \/ be up-dated?

Poll: Who will bring home the 2003 pennant?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

Poll Options
Who will bring home the 2003 pennant?
Boston Red Sox
New York Yankees
I'm a Mets fan.

September 30th, 2005, 01:15 PM

A compendium of articles about this weekend's series: here (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2005/09/behind_enemy_li.html)

September 30th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Updated the poll....

September 30th, 2005, 01:59 PM

September 30th, 2005, 02:08 PM

September 30th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Here they go again
Red Sox, Yankees at end of collision course

Tom Singer MLB

BOSTON -- And, so, they fool us again. Just when we thought the Yankees and Red Sox had given us all they could, they found another level.
And this is it. The ultimate series, for the ultimate prize. Three games in Fenway Park, where either the Yankees will deliver the ultimate payback or the Red Sox the ultimate encore.

A year after the Red Sox danced in Yankee Stadium, the Bombers could turn The Fens into their mosh pit, needing only two out of three to celebrate their eighth straight division title.

Or, the Red Sox could do the two-step, dealing the Bombers another final blow.

Or, neither happens, and they're left in a pretzel to be undone in Game No. 163, on Monday in the Bronx.

The Yankees soared here on their strong second wind -- 15 wins in their last 18 games -- and the Red Sox await them just plain winded -- a mediocre 11-10 in their last 21 -- but relieved to steal one from Toronto.

So not much will be decided in the next three days. Only a division championship, a Wild Card pass into the postseason, and an MVP Award.

Alex Rodriguez will try to pick the pockets of David Ortiz, the Big Papi who virtually wrapped his Big Paws around the trophy with another pressure performance Thursday night.

Cataclysmic, or merely seismic, this series under the multicolored New England fall foliage?

These are noble teams, dignified by the resolve with which they have run the race. They are not sleek, but dinged. Teams buckling under the weight of their cities' expectations, pulled down by their own flaws.

But they have refused to give in or give up until they cross the finish line, like a couple of aging marathon runners stretching on bowed legs for the tape.

The collapse can wait until Monday ... or Tuesday ... or next Sunday ... or whenever a last out sends them into winter.

The champion of the American League East Division and the AL Wild Card will be determined by pitching matchups no one could have conceived six months ago -- not even under the influence of strong hallucinogens.

Friday night, someone named Chien-Ming Wang will go for the Yankees opposite the old Yankee, David Wells.

Wells owns two of Boston's three wins over New York since Memorial Day -- 7-2 on May 29 in Yankee Stadium, 17-1 on July 15 here.

Saturday will pair Randy Johnson and Tim Wakefield, 81 years of contrasting aces. The two are as compatible as P. Diddy and Pavarotti. Two of Wakefield's right-handed knuckleballs equal one of the Big Unit's flames. But Johnson hasn't lost since Aug. 21 and Wakefield has allowed nine runs all month.
Scheduled to lower the regular-season curtain on Sunday are two veteran right-handers who are accurate reflections of their teams' seasons. It will be a poetically just finale.

Mike Mussina, who alternately looked prime or like he was pitching a cannonball, is due to meet Curt Schilling, who got phat off the World Series triumph but ultimately didn't have two good legs to stand on.

A three-game sweep would give Boston its first division title since 1995. You wouldn't want to bet on that, but you could hope for the Red Sox to win the first two and leave the next step up to Sunday -- remembering the mastery Schilling conjured only three weeks ago in Yankee Stadium, where he stepped totally out of 2005 character with eight innings of five-hit ball.

The Red Sox shed one major haunt last year, but have set themselves up for a new one. If they hit a postseason roadblock, Terry Francona's crew would have a hard time letting this one go.

Not because they blew a big lead over the Yankees -- the biggest they had was 5 1/2 games, on Aug. 10.

But because they blew the chance to build a big lead. While the Yankees were regaining their bearings from a blown-up rotation and were panicked into overhauling a third of their lineup, the Red Sox never took advantage.

They know this, and it gnaws at them.

"This was the season for us to be 10 games up on the Yankees," Ortiz said a few days ago. "They can't play worse than they did at the beginning of the season."

The Red Sox didn't even make as much of that as did the Baltimore Orioles, who led the division until June 23.

By the time the Sox cut the cord to '04 and started to focus on the present, so did the Yankees. The race was on, one of the best races in their long history.

Seldom in 105 seasons have they never been separated by more than 5 1/2 games.

It has taken a lot out of both of them.

The Yankees have a beat-up pitching staff, a soft-tossing center fielder and a sore-legged right fielder.

The Red Sox have a one-armed center fielder, a shelved closer and a gasping offense too often reduced to its two-headed monster, Manny Ramirez and Ortiz.

They each deserve this shot. They deserve each other. We deserve them both.

"It's the master plan," Johnny Damon said. "God's way ... Yankees and Red Sox."


September 30th, 2005, 06:01 PM

September 30th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Red Sox: Krispy Kreme swollen guts hiding under baggy uniforms.

Yankees: Correctly accessorized designer originals.

October 1st, 2005, 08:48 PM

October 1st, 2005, 11:44 PM
I'm happy to see there are gay Yankee fans expressing themselves openly.

October 2nd, 2005, 03:38 PM
This poll is somewhat skewed. I accidently clicked on the Yankees, I feel that either the Angels or perhaps the Whitesoxs will win not only the AL division but the World Series.

TLOZ Link5
October 2nd, 2005, 03:50 PM
So did the NYPD have to fatally shoot anyone by accident in a post-game riot?

October 10th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Alex Rodriguez is a huge son of a ****

what the hell is wrong with him??? he doesnt know how to bat!!

he has just been making harder to Yanks to win over the Angels...

same with Tino Martinez and Posada... i am so ******* mad with them... they r ruining the Yankees

October 10th, 2005, 10:54 PM
you know what...

**** Giambi and Mussina... omfg... they suck

October 11th, 2005, 12:47 AM
Alex Rodriguez Mother****er Mother****er
I Hope You And Your Family Die Mother****er Loser

I ****ing Hate You Asshole ****ing Son Of A Bitch

October 11th, 2005, 10:06 AM
Alex Rodriguez Mother****er Mother****er
I Hope You And Your Family Die Mother****er Loser

I ****ing Hate You Asshole ****ing Son Of A Bitch



October 11th, 2005, 06:53 PM
well im "kindda" of a Yankee fan... so you may understand my rage yesterday after the game

October 11th, 2005, 07:50 PM
If you are under 20 years old, you have nothing to be pissed about.
11 straight postseason appearances
8 straight division titles
5 World Series appearances.
4 World Series wins
3 straight World Series wins
13 straight World Series game wins.

Check the baseball almanac, and see how often this happens.

I would have liked to see the country's two big cites* square off, though.

*Population aside, LA doesn't count.

How could I forget this one: A Subway Series

October 11th, 2005, 07:55 PM
Population aside, LA doesn't count.

Everything considered, LA doesn't count (though she sure wishes she did).

December 22nd, 2005, 09:19 AM
Waiting for Johnny


December 22nd, 2005, 11:29 AM

December 23rd, 2005, 12:57 AM
Why is Steinbrenner making Damon shave his beard? I'm glad he's a Yankee, but WTF? Damon and his Jesus-like looks help him stand out, other than the fact that he's a great player.

December 23rd, 2005, 03:48 PM
Check out the PINK robe!!!

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20051223/capt.ny11212230324.baseball_yankees_damon__ny112.j pg

December 24th, 2005, 02:07 PM
Why is Steinbrenner making Damon shave his beard? I'm glad he's a Yankee, but WTF? Damon and his Jesus-like looks help him stand out, other than the fact that he's a great player.

It's a team policy. No Yankee can have a beard, only a small moustache. The policy also forbids excessively long hair.

December 31st, 2005, 01:30 AM
http://daboogiedownbronx.mlblogs.com/da_bronx_bombers/images/holy_jesus.jpgInitially, I thought the Yankees should have let the short hair rule slide this one time. After all, this is GOD's team, right? And who did Johnny look like? Upon further reflection (as demonstated by this photo) I think they made the right move.

January 5th, 2006, 09:26 PM
NEW YORK PRESS Vol 19 - Issue 1




SULLIVAN: You take the money and you pay the price. George Steinbrenner has taken the fun out of baseball so it is no wonder he wants to reel in any free sprits and shear their locks. I don’t like the rule, but for 13 million dollars every year for four years I would imagine Damon would cut his pubic hair if the Yankees so ordered it.

Another good reason for Damon to cut his hair is that he was starting to look like Jack Black in The School of Rock. The caveman look \was so Idiotic 2004. Not good, as 2004 was the year of baseball’s biggest collapse by the once-mighty New York Yankees. Up 3-0 in the A.L. Championship Series, they choked and let the Sox—led by the hirsute idiot Damon—sweep them. Damon’s flowing mane might give Yankees fans flashbacks to that nadir of their existence.

So given that the Yankees are as much fun to watch as drying paint, it makes sense that Damon toe the corporate line. Cut his hair and make him spout platitudes. Get him in line and make him become a walking, talking automaton like Jeter and A-Rod. There will be no fun in the Bronx. We must win and vanquish all who enter these hallowed grounds. Crush them and kill their spirits. That is the Yankees Way.

HOLLANDER: With the exception of certain nude beaches, I am opposed to dress codes or appearance codes of any kind, anywhere—especially in the workplace. If the length of a person’s hair or beard doesn’t hinder their on-the-job performance why control that aspect of their individuality? In Damon’s case, it will hurt his performance and concomitantly his wallet.

As soon as Damon went caveman in 2002, his star rose meteorically. He made his only two All-Star appearances (2002, 2005) and batted over .300—something he hadn’t done in the six preceding seasons—his last two seasons. What he’s earned from his on-field performance pales in comparison to the lucrative marketing deals inspired by his dogface image. Really, who cares about Johnny Damon without the hair? Now he looks like another food-delivery boy. Where are Ralph Nader and Arlen Specter chirping up about Damon’s employee rights? For Damon, a mandatory shave and haircut amounts to an unfair economic restriction.

If Arn Tellem got Jason Giambi a contract exempting steroids from his “morals clause,” surely baseball uber-agent Scott Boras could’ve gotten Damon a hair exemption. If Boras lets Damon’s signature persona dissolve like his other persona-less client, Alex Rodriguez, he should be re-dubbed Scott “Bore-Us.”

The New York media and Madison Avenue love a rebel. I say grow back the hair, absorb the fines and get more marketing dollars as a result.

P.S.—I am tickled that you managed to work “hirsute” into your argument.

SULLIVAN: Yes, the hair is a good gimmick but when you sell your soul to the company store you are no longer a rebel—regardless of hair length.

And once you take $13 million a year for four years you are a corporate shill—not a freewheeling spirit. At that price, I would argue that Steinbrenner could make you pierce your nipples.

That Damon’s hair was the cause of his success is just antediluvian crap. What is he, Samson? It’s good that he cut his hair, because with his weak arm he looked like a girl throwing to the cut-off man.

This move smacks of desperation and does not address the Yankees’ real flaw: their lack of pitching. Damon will lead them to the playoffs but with their current pitching staff they will once again be a first-round casualty.

A-Rod on Paxil, Damon with short hair, Jeter married... none of it matters. This team is going down. The curse of the 2000 Subway Series continues to haunt the Bronx.

HOLLANDER: Listen, there is a little-discussed but very real “Delilah Factor” in Major League Baseball. By my unofficial count, Mike Piazza’s batting average drops 68 points when clean shaven. Jason Giambi spiraled to the abyss when he clipped his soul patch and surfer-dude coif.

Despite Steinbrenner’s obsession with Nazi uniformity, the Yankees tradition before and during George’s watch is rife with player rebellion. As a boozing, gluttonous womanizer, Babe Ruth had no equal. The Fritz Peterson-Mike Kekich wife-swapping incident was the saving grace of the early-’70s Yankees. And internal brawling was the key to the championship Yanks of the late-’70s. Nothing was more New York about the ’90s Yankees than David Wells pitching a perfect game on a bad hangover (not to mention later getting his teeth knocked out at the Gracie Corner Diner at 4 a.m.). Hell, could you even picture the sacred visage of Thurman Munson without his scruff? [Munson was an asshole. —The Eds.]

The current “Yankees Way” is killing the Yankees—especially their pitching. Last year, a primped Randy Johnson lost his hillbilly edge completely. Carl Pavano was never the same after he stopped dating jock coquette Alyssa Milano. “Flash” Gordon, whose nickname likely comes more from a certain proclivity for wearing trench coats than his likeness to the science-fiction hero, seemed totally inhibited. This all must change.

A-Rod gambling is a good start. But we need more. Larry Bowa should come out the closet once he gets to New York, Mike Mussina should openly declare himself a Communist and Johnny Damon should grow his ridiculous hair back and wear a nose ring for extra measure.

Damon is an excellent, rational choice (hardly “desperate”) to fill the gaping hole in centerfield. It’s not your money so who cares how much he costs? God knows the ways you might whore yourself out for $13 million, C.J., but mindlessly assimilating into the Borg neither enriches Damon in the long run nor helps the Yankees this season. Ironically, Damon must assert his individuality for the sake of the team. Otherwise, the Yankees will continue to doze off into the land of also-rans. And worst of all, they will become the team of secondary interest in their own city. [They already are. Reyes > Jeter.]

January 6th, 2006, 10:50 AM
I have a problem now however. I was until recently in love with Derek....I find myself strangely drawn to the Mountain Man now he has lost all that hair......

January 6th, 2006, 02:47 PM
Cutting his hair will hurt his performance?


What conditioner does he use?


August 18th, 2006, 12:30 PM
August 18, 2006

Where Do Rivals Draw the Line?



THE CITY of New Britain, near the geographical center of Connecticut and the midpoint between New York City and Boston, is home to the Rock Cats, the Minnesota Twins’ Class AA affiliate in the Eastern League. But the Twins do not have much of a fan base in New Britain. As is the case across much of the state, there is a debate in New Britain about which is the more popular team, the Red Sox or the Yankees.

Last summer, the Rock Cats staged a Rivalry Night. They had 2,000 Yankees caps and 2,000 Red Sox caps. Paying customers could choose one.

“The Red Sox caps ran out first, so we declared this Red Sox territory, although it’s probably 51-49,” said Bob Dowling, the team’s media relations director.

A city divided. A region and state, too. But where, exactly?

The idea for this exercise was simple in design but complicated in application: Plot the length of the border between Red Sox Nation and Yankees Country, a sort of Mason-Dixon Line separating baseball’s fiercest rivals, who will play five games in the next four days in Boston.

The midpoint between Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium is approximately Rocky Hill, Conn., a few miles south of Hartford and east of New Britain. Some adventurers have dared to guess where allegiances are perfectly balanced, usually pointing to a place near Route 91, anywhere from north of Hartford to New Haven in the south.

But few have set out on an expedition — Lewis and Clark meet Rand McNally — to draw baseball’s bitterest border, to learn where it makes landfall along Long Island Sound to where it peters out in complacency in upstate New York, a serpentine span of nearly 200 miles.

“The border’s probably as wide as Connecticut,” Tom Brown, a volunteer firefighter in Old Lyme, Conn., said.

But the point was to narrow the boundary until each adjacent town fell to one side or the other. The border would be a continuous line, allowing no recognized islands of hostility in enemy territory. Such bastions would be viewed as anomalies, like Union sympathizers in Tennessee. True borders, after all, are no wider than a dotted line.

Polling a representative sample of people in every town would be impossible, so the method was simplified: Use a company-issued 2002 Pontiac Grand Am to traverse the highways and back roads of Connecticut, New York and Massachusetts. Roll into towns unannounced. Choose a person or group of people — preferably those with a bead on the area, like police officers and firefighters, politicians and postal carriers, bartenders and barbers — to be the proxy for their village. Excuse me, but is this a Yankees town or Red Sox one?

When possible, irrefutable data — a choice of baseball caps, for example, or the sale of team-logo cookies, or an office straw poll — would be used for confirmation.

This one is a Red Sox town? That one is for the Yankees? The border goes between. And so on.

That is how it was determined that the divide goes north of Southington but south of Northfield, that New Haven belongs to the Yankees, New London to the Red Sox.

Connecticut Yankees?

The results of a poll by Connecticut’s Quinnipiac University, released in May, served as a loose guide, like a AAA TripTik. Of those in Connecticut who said they were “somewhat interested” or “very interested” in major league baseball, 42 percent of them claimed the Yankees as their favorite team. The Red Sox were preferred by 35 percent. The Mets, at 12 percent, were a distant third.

Fairfield County, the southwestern spout of Connecticut, which spills toward New York City, belongs to the Yankees, 55 percent to 14 percent.

But five of Connecticut’s eight counties, the poll found, are part of Red Sox Nation. That includes Hartford County, which favors the Red Sox by 52 percent to 30 percent. That jibes with television ratings, which show that the Red Sox usually get a larger audience in the area.

The first goal of the expedition was to determine where the border crosses the Connecticut shoreline, hugged by Route 95. A pair of Lids stores, which sell a large variety of caps, revealed that it begins somewhere on the 55-mile stretch between Exit 39B and Exit 82.

At the Connecticut Post Mall in Milford, west of New Haven, a wall near the register was dominated by classic Yankees caps and about 40 variations. Red Sox caps were displayed on the low racks, like bargain cereal in the supermarket aisle.

“It’s supply and demand,” the assistant manager Luis Sanchez said. He wore a Yankees cap. “Obviously, the Yankees hats are doing their thing.”

An hour later, at the Crystal Mall in Waterford, near New London, the Lids store was dominated by Red Sox caps.

It prompted the first of countless U-turns. Focus shifted to the Connecticut River.

“In one word: brackish,” said Joan Welch of the Wheatmarket deli in Chester, applying the term both to the river — near its mouth, a mix of seawater and fresh water — and to the baseball allegiances that it symbolically dissects.

Old Saybrook sits on the west side of the river. The executive director of its chamber of commerce, Linanne Lee, said she thought the town leaned toward the Yankees. The office manager Judy Sullivan, a Yankees fan, said it leaned toward the Red Sox. After much deliberation, it was decided: Line the streets of Old Saybrook with pinstripes, but do it faintly.

Across the river, members of the Old Lyme volunteer fire department, in two engines with lights flashing and sirens blaring, rushed to the Hideaway Restaurant and Pub. A car in the parking lot had a gas leak and could not be towed until it was examined.

Inside the Hideaway, a television showed the Yankees playing an afternoon game. Two others showed a tape of the Red Sox game from the night before. Outside, 10 firefighters stood in the midday sun. Six of them liked the Red Sox, three the Yankees. One, perhaps a Mets fan, abstained.

Cookie-Cutter Answers

The baseball border quickly abandons the river. There is little doubt that everything east of the Connecticut River leans to the Red Sox. But crossing to the west on the Chester-Hadlyme Ferry, the river-as-border theory crumbles like a cookie at Kristen Lynn Bakery in Chester.

The owner Kristen Ehrlich makes cookies shaped like ball caps, frosted with near-perfect logos of the Yankees and the Red Sox.

“I make the Yankees when they run out, but I’m making the Red Sox all the time,” she said. “The Red Sox are definitely the better seller.”

Backtracking again found that the border bends sharply west from the river’s mouth, back along I-95. The Yankees claim most of the beach towns. The Red Sox scoop up many inland villages, which feel quintessentially New England rather than metropolitan New York.

The border swings back to the river at aptly named Middletown. Employees at Bill’s Sport Shop said the city favored the Yankees, thanks to its substantial, but aging, Italian-American population, fans who once rooted for DiMaggio, Berra and Rizzuto.

But Eli Cannon’s, a tavern where regulars keep their mugs hanging behind the bar, was filled largely with Red Sox fans.

Five firefighters and a paramedic watching darkness fall outside the station on Main Street debated the topic — three said Yankees, three said Red Sox — until an alarm sent them scurrying.

Brian O’Connor broke the tie. A state representative and a director of the Middlesex County Chamber of Commerce, he risked alienating his Red Sox constituents and put Middletown on the Yankees side.
North of Middletown, in Cromwell, a woman flipping eggs on the grill at Mama Roux’s Kitchen declared the area Yankees Country. She could tell by the T-shirts worn by customers.

In the next town to the north, Rocky Hill, near the edge of Hartford’s sprawl, employees at the post office said the town was part of Red Sox Nation. More evidence was provided by the post office’s sales of team-logo door magnets: Red Sox 15, Yankees 12.

Rocky Hill is where the border takes a hard turn west, toward New Britain and then Bristol.

Thrown a Curve

Satellite dishes, part of the vast ESPN complex, stand sentry to Bristol’s east side. Chris LaPlaca, ESPN’s senior vice president for communications, placed Bristol on the Red Sox side. Bristol was the home of the Bristol Red Sox, who moved to New Britain and later became the Rock Cats, helping to tinge the area red.

South of Bristol is Southington, where Yankees pitcher Carl Pavano grew up and, with little debate, a Yankees town.

As the border ducks into the hills of western Connecticut, there seemed no better place to break the near-deadlock in Terryville, a border town, than the Lock Museum of America. Alas, on this afternoon, during posted business hours, the museum was closed — and locked.

Reached at home, the museum’s curator, Tom Hennessy, put tiny Terryville in the Red Sox camp with conviction, enough to throw away the key.

From Terryville, the border curves north again and forms a backward “S” across Route 8. In Torrington, a query at the aptly named Yankee Pedlar Inn was deferred to Dick’s Restaurant. In this narrow throwback of a bar, a wall is lined with Yankees memorabilia, including photographs of the restaurant owner, Raymond Colangelo, with famous Yankees, like Mickey Mantle.

Colangelo, known as Brooklyn, grew up in Torrington and has been at Dick’s for 43 years. Torrington is a Yankees town, he said.

It is there that tracing the border through the hilly northwest corner of Connecticut becomes tricky, the result of a decrease in population and an increase in apathy. The Quinnipiac poll found 64 percent of Litchfield County residents were “not at all” interested in baseball — a number 20 points higher than any other part of the state.

Still, patrons at the Speckled Hen Pub in Norfolk quickly dubbed the town part of Red Sox Nation. Against the Massachusetts border a few miles northwest, at the Steppin’ Stone, a restaurant in Canaan, it was agreed that that town was part of Yankees Country.

This is the area where the swerves of the baseball boundary harden into straight lines. A Red Sox town in New York is more likely than a Yankees town in Massachusetts, though the state line seems built on baseball as much as colonial politics.

Kristin Keeler was raised in Hillsdale, N.Y., minutes from Massachusetts. From behind the counter at Hillsdale Electronics, she professed her hometown’s allegiance to the Yankees.

A few miles east over the hills, Sheffield, Mass., is closer to New York City than to Boston, but its heart is with the Red Sox.

“It’s 157 miles to Yawkey Way,” said Edward Gulotta, who runs a Mobile gas station with his brother, Tony, referring to the street address of Fenway Park. “We’re pretty loyal to the state.”

Inside, above the candy racks, were framed photographs of the 2004 World Series trophy taken in front of the station when the team took the trophy on a statewide tour. A nearby shelf held disposable lighters decorated with the Yankees logo. There were none with the Red Sox emblem.

“That’s a good test,” Tony Gulotta said. “We had the same number of Red Sox lighters. And these are still here.”

His brother lifted one. “These cost $100, and they don’t work,” he said.
Next door, five people worked inside town hall, and all were Red Sox fans. Only the absent tax collector was a Yankees fan, threatening his popularity on two counts.

A few miles north, in Great Barrington, a police officer, Paul Montgomery, directed traffic around a large hole in the street where workers were repairing a water pipe. Red Sox, he declared without hesitation. And two out of three workers agreed.

Beyond Borders

Still, there are complicated allegiances in the Berkshires region of western Massachusetts, especially during baseball season. Dan Duquette, the former Red Sox general manager, runs a sports academy in Hinsdale, where the population doubles in the summer.

“You get a number of New Yorkers who spend summers here,” Duquette said. “When you get all these transplanted New Yorkers up here, you can almost get more Yankees fans.”

But not quite. WBRK, a Pittsfield radio station, broadcasts Yankees games, and the station’s president, Chip Hodgkins, estimates that there is nearly a 50-50 split in the area’s allegiances. Pressed, he conceded a 60-40 split, advantage to the Red Sox. In the end, the search found no Massachusetts town outside Red Sox Nation.

But a couple of New York towns might fall to the Red Sox side. New Lebanon is about a mile from the state line, a quick jaunt from Pittsfield. Several stops — at the fire station, a coffee shop and a bar — were met with conflicting responses. At the post office, three employees delivered the town’s allegiance to the Red Sox. A customer claimed it for the Yankees, and a teenager in a Yankees cap deemed it too close to call.

A more telling sign was needed. On a house across the street, a Red Sox flag hung from the porch.

Farther north, along the Vermont state line, the crowd at Helvi’s BBQ in Hoosick, N.Y. — where a full pig was baking in a barbecue set on a trailer hitched to a truck, ready to be taken to a party — leaned toward the Red Sox. Nearby Hoosick Falls, however, was firmly in the Yankees camp.

To see if the Yankees had moved deep into New England, a side trip to nearby Bennington, Vt., found it in Red Sox Nation.

“I have to go to Hoosick to watch the games,” said a lone Yankees fan at Carmody’s Irish Pub. He was headed there that night.

The border extends north, surely, and probably a little west, perhaps beyond Lake Champlain and into Canada. But allegiances are dulled by distance, and every mile on the Grand Am — 600 and counting on this expedition — was met with diminishing returns.

Increasingly, there were no exact answers. Only debatable ones. As it should be.


Copyright 2006 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

August 30th, 2007, 06:02 PM
I'm just sayin'.

August 30th, 2007, 06:08 PM
5 games behind the Red Sox and own first place in the Wild Card atleast until Seattle plays.


August 30th, 2007, 06:12 PM
sweeeeeeep :)

We'll have to get it done again in 2 weeks.

August 30th, 2007, 06:12 PM
That RS lineup did not look very intimidating the past three games.

Their can't miss ace (Beckett) didn't look too scary either and neither was their unhittable reliever (Okajima) or the $100 million Matsuzaka hired gun.

I just don't know why or how they managed to have the best record in baseball.

September 3rd, 2007, 05:42 PM
You guys sweep the Sox, and loose 2 out of 3 to the D-Rays..

Typical... :p

September 15th, 2007, 08:35 AM
Yanks-Sox, several pints of Smuttynose, a 6 run 8th inning, a win at Fenway.

Life is good.

September 15th, 2007, 11:43 AM
aaaahhhhhhhhhhhh ...

: - ))))))))))))))))))))

September 15th, 2007, 06:16 PM
Heh, you guys shoulda seen my friends staring at the TV in disbelief last night, especially those who didn't see all of what transpired in the 8th inning.

And I enjoyed some Smithwick's.


September 20th, 2007, 11:58 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/soxalert4.jpg (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2007/09/sound_the_alarm_2.html)

September 20th, 2007, 12:23 PM
I didn't think that would happen unless we pull even.

But not to worry. The Evil Empire will provide a safety net for the citizens of Red Sox Nation.

Complimentary tickets (http://ladamania.com/blog/pics/NFL_New_England_Patriots.jpg)

September 20th, 2007, 09:44 PM
Were 1 game out in the all important loss column. We're gonna take it, the Red Sox are F'n up as usual.

Be vewe vewe quiet. I'm huntin' Wed Sox. Bahahaahahaha :)

September 21st, 2007, 06:35 AM
Any room for Met fans on that ledge?

September 21st, 2007, 12:50 PM

October 6th, 2007, 02:11 AM

April 16th, 2008, 02:32 PM

April 16, 2008 -- (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04162008/sports/yankees/rivalry_s_buzz_takes_a_beating_106692.htm?page=0)

I DO NOT want to write this column, but I must, because the Red Sox and Yankees start a series tonight and someplace next to the original Gutenburg press is a journalistic playbook that demands we trumpet each new sighting of The Rivalry as if it were the ball coming down on New Year's. Even if the two teams just played over the weekend in Boston. Even if this series is just two games. Even if it is just April 16.

You see, we in the media are as addicted to Red Sox-Yankees as any junkie is to a drug. We have all decided to ignore realities that this series has lost a good deal of its juice the past few years, and now contains two of the worst traits of modern baseball: The games are usually way too long and too often come with the commentary of Joe Morgan. In fact, this series has become Joe Morgan in many respects: Famous for something that happened in the past and now something presented to us regularly as extraordinary that, quite frankly, isn't.

This is like "Survivor" or "ER" now. Something that used to be unique and special and well done, that lost its essence years ago. However, it stays on the network schedule in hopes that it can recapture what it once was. I asked a Fox executive before the Saturday game if he covers his eyes while the game is in progress and hopes when he opens them that Pedro Martinez and Don Zimmer will be rolling around on the ground? He laughed. I didn't.

It is Red Sox-Yankees, so yes, it comes with a ton of history and, thus, more buzz than, say, Brewers-Pirates. But it also comes 18 times a year. If Christmas were celebrated 18 times a year, it would be hard to sing the carols with quite the same gusto.

And here is the big thing: The Red Sox win now. Not just games and series, but championships. The great backstory to this matchup evaporated along with that three-games-to-none lead the Yanks let slip away in the 2004 ALCS. Boston was no longer Charlie Brown falling on his butt after the Yankees went all Lucy and kept pulling it away at the final second.

In 2003-04, every game - heck, every inning, every pitch - was as riveting as baseball gets. But that was because the Yankees had something and the Red Sox were trying to take it away. The context was everything. The Curse defined The Rivalry. Once the hex was lifted, so was the Luke-and-Laura-are-getting-married portion of the script. The intensity could never be the same again.

In fact, now it is contrived. We are told these games carry the same heat as always by their presence in special time slots on Fox and ESPN, and by people like me trying to convince you that nothing has changed, that it is Red Sox vs. Yankees and it is the same as it has ever been.

This is where I abandon ship. I remember being young once and going to a bar with my pals and a few of us having quite a special night after meeting a few ladies. And we kept going back to that bar over and over and over hoping to recapture what had happened that one great night. Of course, we never did have an instant replay. It was a moment in time, great and gone.

And this is where Yankees-Red Sox is now. I am so glad that I was there for all that occurred in 2003-04 - whether it was Big Papi emerging to greatness or Derek Jeter going headfirst into the stands or Karim Garcia and Jeff Nelson re-enacting the Hell's Angels side of Altamont in the Fenway visiting bullpen. But I approach yet another Red Sox-Yankees series feeling like I have learned the lesson that even too much chocolate will make you sick.
And having to hear Joe Morgan discuss it will then make you vomit.


April 16th, 2008, 03:58 PM
Interesting how this thread began in 2003, the poll is from 2005, and of course the "discussion," a polite characterisation indeed, continues into the present, as it should.

If the 2005 poll is any indication, forget predictions. The Sox won in 2005, but they were not Red. Now we have seen two World Series in Boston go the way of the Bosox. My relatives and in-laws there are gloating that they told you so. What will happen to those egos if Boston wins yet again this year.

As that Bogart line to Bergman goes in "Casablanca," slightly altered, "We'll always have the Super Bowl." Of course, that has nothing to do with baseball, but it gets you through the winter.

April 17th, 2008, 12:02 AM
A four hour slug-fest.

(so far)

May 5th, 2008, 05:21 PM
Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry Turns Murderous

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2008/05/05/Ivonne_Hernandez_This_booking_photo_released_by_th e_Nashua__N_H___Police_Dept___shows_Ivonne.jpg
Ivonne Hernandez allegedly ran over a man with
her car following a Red Sox-Yankees argument.
(AP Photo/Nashua Police Dept.)

A Red Sox fan paid the ultimate price (http://www.wnbc.com/news/16162634/detail.html) for his allegiance this weekend when he crossed paths with a Yankees fan in New Hampshire. Ivonne Hernandez, 43 years old and a Yankees fan, is charged with fatally running him over (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t&ct=us/0-0&fp=481f521ffe3b045c&ei=dkkfSPXmAofc-wGu97mBCQ&url=http%3A//www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C354187%2C00.html&cid=1155746776&usg=AFrqEzcVZlooTJSD0lRhb7OC8MNkp-s1Dw).

Hernandez, who was drinking at a Nashua, NH bar on Friday night, announced that she said she was a Yankees fan. The Boston Globe explains, "Nashua, 45 miles northwest of Boston, is Red Sox country."

A bartender says she got into a fight with some patrons that spilled outside. The group chanted "Yankees suck!" when they saw a Yankees sticker on Hernandez's car. The taunting apparently was too much for Hernandez; a prosecutor said (http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2008/05/05/sox_yankees_spat_cited_in_nh_killing/?p1=Well_MostPop_Emailed3), "She never braked, and she accelerated at a high speed for about 200 feet. She went directly at this group of people."

Matthew Beaudoin, 29, suffered massive head trauma and died at the hospital. Hernandez was charged with reckless second-degree murder and aggravated drunken driving.

July 25th, 2008, 10:38 AM
http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/BDD_mb-gotham-papi_7.25.08.jpg (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/07_24_08_sox_yanks_drama/)

July 25th, 2008, 01:02 PM
This would bother me if im a Sox fan, bad enough he lives here....

July 25th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Dada Dada Dada Dada,
Dada Dada Dada Dada...


July 25th, 2008, 02:14 PM

July 25th, 2008, 03:57 PM
Each rabbit would show respect to me. The chipmunks genuflect to me.
Though my tail would lash, I would show compash
For every underling!

Except Papy. He gets a four-seamer under the chin.

July 25th, 2008, 09:04 PM
I guess the Yanks are back (and I thought they would fade away after those injuries). On paper, that pitching still looks suspect to me, but we shall see.

July 25th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Yankees-Red Sox Rivalry Turns Murderous

Matthew Beaudoin, 29, suffered massive head trauma and died at the hospital. Hernandez was charged with reckless second-degree murder and aggravated drunken driving.

What a perfect opportunity for headline writers to insert a word with a double meaning but pronounced differently in its dual role - "row." This then might have read "Yankees - Red Sox Rivalry results in a Murderous Row." Too macabre this time ... given that someone actually died.

July 25th, 2008, 11:39 PM
Glad to have Joba in the rotation as a starter after his stellar performance tonight. The Yanks will apparently be gaining a badly needed lefty in the bullpen too with the news of a trade for Damaso Marte.

July 26th, 2008, 12:06 AM
Is Marte really worth it? I'm not too familiar with the Pirates. He's got an ERA over 4.00 and for a reliever, that's not so good.

Looks like the best prospect we gave up beside Tabata is Coke. Why not give Coke a chance and then see how he pans out first before trading him away? :confused:

July 26th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Whew, am I buzzed. Great game.

This was an excellent trade for the Yanks. Got two things done that needed to be done.

Righty hitting OF Nady.

Lefty in the bullpen. You really need that to counter late-inning moves by the opposition.

Marte's ERA is 3.47. On a lousy team, it's more revealing to look at other stats.

The guy's a legitimate closer, since he has held right-handed batters to a .200 average, even better than against lefties, .255. There's no better lefty available.

Only front line prospect the Yanks give up is 20 yr old OF Jose Tabita. He's their #3 rated prospect, but they have another OF prospect in the pipe (forget his name), so they could afford to let him go.

Yanks just need one starting pitcher.

July 26th, 2008, 12:39 AM
My apologies already to NYatKNIGHT. You may yet get your wish for one more World Series in the old stadium in its last year.

Stretching Joba Chamberlain back out to become a starter this year seemed like an overreaction at the time, but after this 1-0 game with the help of a slightly extended Mariano Rivera it might be that talent will still win out. I have to wonder however about that incident with Kevin Youkalis in a close game - was it accidental or on purpose - Boston will only see it one-way.

Finally, that trade for Xavier Nady and Dámaso Marte, without apparently giving up too much, is either brilliant or another example of overvaluing Yankee players by other teams.

For some time Marte was quite effective with the Chicago White Sox before he started having problems finding the plate. I've lost track of him in Pittsburgh, but the fact that others wanted him and are now angry that the Yankees have him may say enough about his true value in a stadium that needs effective lefthanded pitchers.


July 26th, 2008, 12:57 AM
Stretching Joba Chamberlain back out to become a starter this year seemed like an overreaction at the time, but after this 1-0 game with the help of a slightly extended Mariano Rivera it might be that talent will still win out.It could not have worked unless the bullpen was turned around. I've had issues with a few of Girardi's in-game decisions; I think he overmanaged at times. But he's done a great job with the BP. ERA under 2.0; Fahnsworth hasn't given up a run in over a month.

Finally, that trade for Xavier Nady and Dámaso Marte, without apparently giving up too much, is either brilliant or another example of overvaluing Yankee players by other teams.Economics from the Pirates perspective. They can't even fill up that little stadium. They shed salary, and get what they wanted - minor league prospects to keep their payroll low.

The wild card for the Yanks now is Ponson. Pitches Sunday.

July 26th, 2008, 03:25 PM
The kid pitched a gem (including plausible deniability (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3505922&categoryId=2521705&n8pe6c=2) for the Youk pitch). In his longest start yet (7 innings) he proved himself to be a real gamer.

A good game -- some blown calls -- but a good game.

July 26th, 2008, 03:47 PM
Economics from the Pirates perspective. They can't even fill up that little stadium. They shed salary, and get what they wanted - minor league prospects to keep their payroll low.

The wild card for the Yanks now is Ponson. Pitches Sunday.

The Pirates are a joke of an organization, which is the reason they can't fill up their stadium. Pittsburgh is a big sports town but no one is going to watch an organization that consistently trades away their good players for garbage, what they got back from the Yankees is absolute garbage, the Yankees always over hype their prospects, and the prospects they gave here weren't even hyped at all. This trade will go down with the Oliver Perez trade. Only the Pirates would trade a 24 year old lefty with a 95 mph fastball and devastating slider. Only the Pirates would trade two very good players, combined making 5 million, not a lot in baseball terms, for absolute garbage.

July 26th, 2008, 08:00 PM
Let's not jump the gun here. We don't know how those prospects the Yankees gave up will pan out. With young players, one never knows.

Sure bets can fizzle out while great ones seemingly come out of no where and surprise.

Nady ain't a spring chicken. He is 30 years old already and his career BA is .281, not impressive.

Marte is older still at 33. The Yankees as usual, never really get young.

July 27th, 2008, 07:51 PM
Don't agree.

Trades of this type don't involve front-line players on both sides, so you wouldn't see the Yanks sending a righty from the BP to Pittsburgh for a lefty. That might work for the Yanks, but the Pirates want to reduce payroll, so they'll want minor league prospects.

The problem in this case is that the key man in the trade isn't ready for the majors. Usually you want the #1 prospect in AAA, who will step up to the majors next year.

Jose Tabita isn't garbage; he was the Yanks #1 prospect last year. He was dropped to #3 because he came up fast; he was moved to AA at 19, the first Yankee since Jeter. He's run into problems, mostly involving discipline, not unusual for someone so young who's suddenly in the spotlight.

Look at Reyes. He still acts like a clown.

The Pirates may have a future star in Tabita, but you won't know for a few years. If they try to justify the trade to get attendance next year by bringing him up early, they run the risk of messing him up emotionally.

To show how lopsided this trade is, I found out yesterday that the Yanks weren't even interested in Nady at first; they wanted Marte.

The ages aren't a factor. You're looking for help to get to the playoffs, not a player for a decade. Look at the Brewers. They traded for Sabathia, knowing he's going to enter the free agent market at the end of the season. In the case of Marte and Nady, they'll be around a few years.

July 27th, 2008, 08:30 PM
I hope Ponson wasn't talking to any Boston bartenders today.

The three martini pregame warmup.

July 28th, 2008, 05:09 AM
Are you aware Zippy - nah you certainly are aware - that Kyle Farnsworth also has a well-earned reputation of having a few before-and-after games while he was a Chicago Cub. Don't know what his image is now in New York regarding this matter.

If you get results, slightly tipsy or "stone cold sober," they tend to overlook, otherwise any and everything may eventually be used against you. This all reminds me of "the Mick," when those things were not mentioned to the public back in an earlier time. Trouble was that many knew better, since they ran into him after hours on too many occasions, partaking in the dizzing spirits.

July 31st, 2008, 02:48 AM
Who would have expected that after the remarks I made in that prior post, that we now discover that Kyle Farnsworth is gone, and that Manny Ramirez is being discussed in a three-way deal.

Ivan Rodriquez, who has a recent association with steroid charges, is still one of the most productive offensive catchers in the game. However, after watching him up-close in the Central division of the AL, he strikes me as not the defensive catcher he once was long ago, but he is very competent. He will be a major upgrade to that Yankee lineup that is now without Posada for the rest of the year. But maybe the loss of Farnsworth might also be felt.

As for Manny Ramirez, the trade is still nothing but a strong rumour. And if it happens, based strictly on what I last heard, it will result only in minor league players going to Boston, as this season heats up in the final two months.

July 31st, 2008, 10:14 AM
Sorry, don't know how I missed your earlier post.

I've been a Farnsworth observer since he became a Yankee, noting that Atlanta, an organization with a reputation for evaluating pitching talent, gave up on him, despite +95 heat and good stuff.

Although Girardi has done a good job in providing Farsworth with a "relatively stressless environment," I'm not convinced by his recent success that Farnsworth can be depended upon in a key situation.

I mean, Joe Torre was such a meanie.

A Partying Farnsworth may explain his time in New York, but there hasn't been one word in the media. At any rate, the trade is good for both teams. For the Yanks, the problem with Molina isn't so much his lack of hitting, but how well he would hold up as the starting catcher. Now they can shift more of the burden to Rodriguez.

Detroit's bullpen is a mess. Although moving to a city with less media pressure, Farnsworth will now be cast in the roll of "bullpen saviour." It'll be interesting to see how he holds up.

I have no idea what's going on with Manny, but we'll know by the end of the day.

That the Mick's antics were hinted at by the media of the time made him all the more legendary. He lived at the St Moritz hotel on CPS, and sometimes would walk across Central Park to Yankee Stadium. Try that today. One season while the team was on the road, the Yanks had an exhibition game against an NL team, which meant a day off from the regulars. Mick had been out late and Casey Stengel was pissed off, so he started him in center field. Being a superstar didn't matter then; the manager was the boss.

August 4th, 2008, 04:17 PM

Pudge seems to be acclimating well to the Yanks.

Farnsworth is back to his old self, turning an 8th inning 3-1 Detroit lead into a tie via a lead off homer, and a one-out two-run shot.

Manny has made an impact in LA, but they have more problems than one man can fix. I wanted the Dodgers to make the playoffs because of Joe Torre; now I want them to finish last.

As a Yankee fan, it's good to have Manny out of the lineup, but what he did last week was beyond classless. Manny in the box and Joba on the mound - that's why you watch the game.

Yankee fans stuck it to the Mets at the Stadium on Saturday. :)

August 4th, 2008, 05:09 PM
Manny in the box and Joba on the mound - that's why you watch the game.

Good riddance!

I was calling for his trade over the winter. The Sox got half a season of hitting out of him -- especially needed with Papi out -- but I'm glad the organization took a 'principled' stand and let him go.


August 4th, 2008, 05:58 PM
Yankee fans stuck it to the Mets at the Stadium on Saturday. :)That was fantastic. Willy, you know where you will always be appreciated.

August 5th, 2008, 02:02 PM
^As long as he wont be your manager, Im sure it will be "fantastic". But if he ever does I cant wait to see all the loving he is going to get from all those rational Yankee fans.


August 5th, 2008, 05:14 PM
Yeah, well you're bitter.

August 6th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Uh, about what? Dont get me wrong the way they fired him was deplorable and incompetent, but I'm sure you picked up on as much as we did.....he aint much of a motivator. It wasnt just him though that is undestood. However, the team body language was listless at best. I doubt Yankee fans would be appreciating him as much him if he were at the helm of a listless Yankee team.

August 6th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Your first statement dripped with sarcasm, made you sound like a typical Yankee hater, and you could almost read the snarling smirk.

But even though you clarified, I still disagree. I don't think anything was Willie's fault, neither his lack of motivation nor management style. As far as body language goes, Joe Torre's body language looked like the walking dead but you can ask the players what they thought of him. Also, I do think Yankee fans would be happy with Willie at the helm if it ever came to it, and as an obvious Yankee hater I don't expect you to believe that, but he's Willie Randolph and fans know his talent, his poise, and don't blame him for the Mets' death spiral last year. I do think he would get loving and be given a fair chance from the the fans because they ARE rational.

August 6th, 2008, 06:37 PM
August 6, 2008, 3:12 pm
Yanks to Place Chamberlain On Disabled List

By TYLER KEPNER (http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/yanks-to-place-chamberlain-on-disabled-list/)

There is still no word from the Yankees on the exact nature of Joba Chamberlain’s shoulder injury or the findings of Dr. James Andrews. But I can tell you for certain that Chamberlain will be placed on the disabled list today. Reliever Chris Britton will be recalled from Class AAA Scranton/Wilkes-Barre for his sixth tour of duty, with Ian Kennedy to start for Chamberlain this weekend.

The Chamberlain injury could be the knockout blow for the Yankees. Boston has its problems and Tampa Bay is untested. But it’s really amazing that the Yankees are contending at all, considering the injuries to Chien-Ming Wang, Phil Hughes, Jorge Posada, Hideki Matsui and now Chamberlain.

Put it this way: if you had known in spring training that Wang would not pitch after June 15, Joba would be on the D.L. by the first week of August and Hughes and Kennedy would be winless through game 113, would you think the Yankees would be playoff-bound?

One subtext to all this is that the stream of injuries will pretty much absolve GM Brian Cashman and Manager Joe Girardi of any blame from the Steinbrenners if the Yankees do not make the playoffs.

August 6th, 2008, 06:39 PM
Looks bad this year.

August 7th, 2008, 01:50 PM
Should have left him in the pen- inspite of the injuries, yankees have a good enough offence to come back in the late innings. Now that they know that this tendenitis can be an issue I wonder if they will actually put him back and let him be Rivera's apprentice.

August 7th, 2008, 01:53 PM
I do think he would get loving and be given a fair chance from the the fans because they ARE rational.

Really, well I listen to WFAN regularly and I would be hearing yankee fans call for Torres head in 2002 because they did not make the WS. And they kept getting louder and louder every passing year he didnt win a WS even though they made the playoffs every year. That did not seem very rational to me.

August 7th, 2008, 05:59 PM
So that's how you reached that conclusion? Bwa-ha-haa-haaaa! Guess that proves it then, o rational Met fan.

August 22nd, 2008, 01:24 PM
http://deadspin.com/assets/images/deadspin/2008/08/mannydreads.JPG (http://deadspin.com/5038203/the-manny-wigs-are-here-get-em-while-they-last)

August 26th, 2008, 10:08 AM
@ Yankee Stadium, New York

Tonight (7:05 p.m.): RHP Tim Wakefield (7-8, 3.67 ERA) vs. LHP Andy Pettitte (13-9, 4.17).

Tomorrow (7:05 p.m.): RHP Paul Byrd (8-11, 4.61) vs. RHP Sidney Ponson (7-4, 4.67).

Thursday (1:05 p.m.): LHP Jon Lester (12-5, 3.49) vs. RHP Mike Mussina (16-7, 3.45).

Head to head: The teams have split 12 games this season; they will play at Fenway in the last series of the regular season, Sept. 26-28.

Miscellany: Twelve of the Yankees' remaining 32 games are against Boston and Tampa Bay . . . New York is 20-15 since the All Star break, but 11-11 in August . . . Before Derek Jeter's 0 for 5 Sunday against the Orioles, he had hit in nine straight games, batting .463 during that stretch.

Wild Card Race:
Team.......... W...L.....PCT....GB...E#...L10...
Boston........ 75...55....577....---...--....6-4
Minnesota.... 74...57....565...1.5...31...6-4
NY Yankees...70...60....538...5.0...28...6-4

August 26th, 2008, 06:35 PM
Former Globe Red Sox writer Gordon Edes gives (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/gallery/07_12_08_edes/) his Top 10 Red Sox-Yankees games in Yankee Stadium history.

1. October 20, 2004: Sox 10, Yankees 3

Shock the world
Johnny Damon hits a grand slam and knocks in six runs as the Sox complete a comeback from an 0-3 deficit to win Game 7 of the ALCS. "How many times can you say honestly say you have a chance to shock the world?'' Kevin Millar said. "...We had that chance, and we did it.''
(Globe Staff Photo / Jim Davis)

2. October 16, 2003: Yankees 6, Sox 5

Aaron bleeping Boone
Five outs away from advancing to the World Series, the Sox lose a three-run lead in eighth when Grady Little leaves Pedro Martinez in to pitch, and lose the game when Aaron Boone homers in the bottom of the 11th off Tim Wakefield.
(Globe Staff Photo / Barry Chin)

3. October 19, 2004: Sox 4, Yankees 2

The Bloody Sock
Curt Schilling, shot full of painkiller in a surgically repaired right ankle bleeding through his sock, holds the Yankees to one run on four hits and no walks in seven innings of Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS, drawing the Sox even at three games apiece in the ALCS.
(AP Photo)

4. October 1-2, 1949: Yankees, 5-4, 5-3

The Lost Weekend
The Red Sox, leading by a game with two to play, are beaten by a pneumonia-weakened Joe DiMaggio (pictured) and the Yankees in both games. Johnny Lindell homered to win the first game, 5-4, and the Yanks beat Ellis Kinder, who had won 15 straight starts, in the second, 5-3. It would be 19 years before Sox owner Tom Yawkey would set foot again in Yankee Stadium.
(AP Photo)

5. October 1, 1961: Yankees 1, Sox 0

Maris hits No. 61
His hair falling out from the stress, Roger Maris in the 162d and last game of the 1961 season hits a home run off Sox pitcher Tracy Stallard for his 61st home run of the season, breaking Babe Ruth's single-season home run record.
(AP Photo)

6. April 18, 1923: Yankees 4, Sox 1

Babe christens his House
In the first game played at Yankee Stadium, with John Philip Sousa conducting the pregame music, Babe Ruth hit the first home run, a three-run home run off Sox pitcher Howard Ehmke that landed 10 rows into the lower right-field stands. The right-field foul pole was only 295 feet away, but that was still farther than the 256 down the line at the Polo Grounds. Sportswriter Fred Lieb called it the "House That Ruth Built,'' but with its inviting power alley in right, many argue it was the house built for Ruth.
(Upi/Corbis-Bettman Photo)

7. May 20, 1976: Sox 4, Yankees 2

'Steinbrenner's Brown Shirts'
Lou Piniella of the Yankees barrels into Sox catcher Carlton Fisk as he blocks the plate, and in the ensuing fight, Mickey Rivers sucker punches Sox pitcher Bill Lee and Graig Nettles throws Lee to the ground. Lee tears ligaments in his shoulder and is out two months; after the game he calls Yankee manager Billy Martin "a Nazi" and the Yankees "Steinbrenner's Brown Shirts.''
(Upi Photo)

8. April 14, 1967: Sox 3, Yankees 0

Billy Rohr, on the threshold
With Jackie Kennedy and her 6-year-old son in attendance at the Yankees home opener, Billy Rohr (pictured), a 21-year-old rookie from Toronto, held the Yankees hitless for 8 2/3 innings until Elston Howard singled on a full count. Carl Yastrzemski robbed Tom Tresh with a great catch for the first out of the ninth to keep the no-hitter alive.
(Globe Staff Photo / Stan Grossfeld)

9. Sept. 10, 1999: Sox 3, Yankees 1

Pedro's masterpiece
On a Friday night in Yankee Stadium, Pedro Martinez allowed just one hit, a line-drive home run by Chili Davis, and struck out 17, the most Yankees ever to strike out in a game, including 12 of the last 15 and the last five in succession. Yankee fans were on their feet roaring for him at the end. "I've never seen anyone pitch like he did tonight," said Martinez's older brother, Ramon, author of a no-hitter and 18-strikeout game. "Nothing would surprise me. I keep telling him he might break the strikeout record, he might pitch a perfect game, a no-hitter. Anything, at any time.''
(AP Photo)

10. Sept. 28, 1951: Yankees 8, Sox 0

Reynolds no-hits Sox
The Yankees, needing one win to clinch a tie for the '51 pennant, do so in dramatic style, as Allie Reynolds no-hits the Sox. The last batter to face Reynolds was Ted Williams (pictured). Yankee catcher Yogi Berra dropped a foul pop by Williams to give him another chance, but when Williams popped up again, Berra held on this time, giving Reynolds his second no-hitter of the '51 season. Dave Righetti also threw a no-hitter against the Sox on July 4, 1983.
(Cleveland Public Library Photo)

Granted, a Sox leaning list but some great games nevertheless.

August 26th, 2008, 08:21 PM
A reminder of the WNY mood (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5173&page=3&#post35678) before the "Shock the world" game.

The day after I wrote (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4102&page=5&#post35733):

It's funny, the most surprising thing would be a Sox World Series victory. At this point I can't even fathom it, much less hope for it. I almost feel guilty for even entertaining the notion. :?

Looking back to the time (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4102&page=3) of the "Aaron bleeping Boone" game I noticed how
TLOZ Link5 was such a sport.

And in case you're wondering I haven't married the Yankee fan... yet.

August 27th, 2008, 12:29 AM
ARod + Giambi = stinking garbage.

August 27th, 2008, 01:06 AM
Time to break out the secret weapon (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/05/jason_giambi_derek_jeter_johnn.html). LOL!

August 27th, 2008, 02:40 PM
ARod + Giambi = stinking garbage.

ARod + Angry Fans = BOOOOOOO!!!! :mad:

August 27th, 2008, 03:24 PM
Yankees are done, next big hit at the stadium will be the demolition crew breaking the "Cathedral of Baseball" as Michael Kay the idiot calls its facade.

Its no surprise they have broken the curse and flipped this rivalry towards Boston, NY has a mayor who is a closet Red Sox fan!

August 27th, 2008, 09:20 PM
That's nonsense. The Yankees are no longer dominant in the AL East because of the philosophy they had for the last 5-10 years, which was to trade all their young prospects for other teams' veterans. Bid for all the star players in the offseason. They went after the aging, veterans, that were overpriced and on the decline in their abilities.

That might have worked except they scouted poorly or made bad decisions on the players they signed or traded for.

Instead of Vladimir Guererro, George Steinbrenner chosed Gary Sheffield. He traded for Randy Johnson 1-2 years too late. Then there were the Kevin Browns, Carl Pavanos, Johnny Damons, Steve Karsays, Jeff Weavers, Jason Giambis', Raul Mondesi's, Jose Contreras', Esteban Loaizas, Javier Vazquezs, Kenny Loftons, Jaret Wrights, Kei Igawas and god knows what else I left out.

August 28th, 2008, 01:48 AM
So, Yankee Stadium Takes This No Moving During "God Bless America"-Thing Rather Seriously

Remember a little more than a year ago when George Steinbrenner, inflated with patriotic fervor, imposed a laughable rule that instructed security officials to ban anyone from "excessive movement" during the 7th inning rendition of "God Bless America (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/10/sports/baseball/10stadium.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=sports&adxnnlx=1219860152-DlFgZe0c8R6kU6s8jv3o2A)." Granted, most New Yorkers seemingly abide by it, but sometimes the system must be tested by one man's agnosticism and patriotic indifference. Oh, and he had to piss.

Meet Bradford Campeau-Laurion, a 29-year-old man from Astoria, Queens, and a director of web production for a "major website" who made the unfortunate decision to blatantly disregard "God Bless America" and hit the head. He was dealt with swiftly and aggressively by Steinbrenner's Red, White, And Blue Muscle. (Full story (http://deadspin.com/5042588/so-yankee-stadium-takes-this-no-moving-during-god-bless-america+thing-rather-seriously))


"A baseball club is part of the chemistry of the city. A game isn't just an athletic contest. It's a picnic, a kind of town meeting."
- New York Yankees President Michael Burke

August 29th, 2008, 10:19 AM

December 10th, 2008, 09:55 AM
$140 million for C.C.?!!

The Yankees are nuts. Do they even know what's going on with the rest of the world.

That team (Cashman, etc.) are so out of touch with reality, it's ridiculous.

If they don't win this year, and I mean win it all in 2009, Cashman needs to be fired (and I was one of his proponents throughout his tenure).

December 10th, 2008, 11:37 AM
^^^ actually, it's 160 million. Damn, thats a lot of money..

December 10th, 2008, 12:12 PM
Three highest-paid pitchers in baseball are currently all left handers. The other two are Johan Santana and Barry Zito. Monopoly money for Yankees considering what they have done to get talent of this kind in the past. (Even the Red Sox, reportedly, were unwilling to go there.)

Is he worth it?

After watching both Johan Santana and C. C. Sabathia in the A.L. Central a short time ago, I considered them to be the two best starters in baseball, or at least the American League. C. C. was just as good when he went to another league in the midst of a pennant run, raising his game almost to the level of perfection for a time there.

But that body has always scared me ... and he has shown some down time at points in every season.

December 10th, 2008, 12:27 PM
Two notes: the years are at seven for the $160M, and Carsten Charles prefers C C over C. C.

December 10th, 2008, 01:01 PM
Last twenty World Series (winner in red):

1992.....Braves..................Blue Jays
1993.....Phillies..................Blue Jays
2004.....Cards...................Red Sox
2005.....Astros..................White Sox
2007.....Rockies................Red Sox

23 different teams have played in the WS since 1988, 13 NL and 10 AL.

10 teams have played in the WS more than once, 5 in each league.

Only 4 teams have won the WS more than once - Marlins in the NL; Yanks, Red Sox, and Blue Jays in the AL.

Other observations:

A's seemed to have something going, appearing in three straight; but they have gone nowhere in the last 18 years.

Same for the Blue Jays, who were dominant in 1992 and 1993, but have disappeared since the strike.

Next to the Yanks 6 appearances, the Braves have played in the most at 5, but their WS record is 1-4. Is that good or bad? With so many games being played, the toughest thing for a baseball fan is to stay engaged if their team is out of it. So on one hand, Braves fans were in it to the end, but on the other hand, it ended badly.

The Angels always seem so dominant, but have played in only one WS.

The Twins have played in one WS, winning it. However, they always seem to be competitive, and I think, the best run small-market team.

Much has been made of the Rays and their small payroll, but they have been awful for a long time, and gradually built the team through draft picks. Will they hold it at the same level, or follow other one-shot wonders like the Padres, D'backs, and Tigers? The winning Phillies were also crap for a long time.

Would Yankee or Red Sox fans tolerate so much down-time to produce a low-payroll winner?

Are the Yankees successful? The answer is obvious by both measures, but we've been spoiled.

The only fans that have a true gripe are Met fans.

December 11th, 2008, 10:51 PM
The Yankees simply prefer to buy a single player rather than build an entire "Team" that can be successful playing as a group.

December 12th, 2008, 01:18 AM
Building an entire team requires a lot of down-time, which goes to my point. Would the fans tolerate it?

It was done in the mid 90s, but look at the time before. And what invariably happens when a team succeeds is you have to reward the players you've developed with big contracts, or they'll go elsewhere. And you have to protect the added investment by staying at that level. That means bringing in high priced instant-impact players.

The Yankees tried team-building last year, and look what happened. Missed the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. For most places, it would be, "So what, had to happen some time." But fans screamed that Cashman should have gone after Santana; and, I'm sure if they don't win it all this year, you'll hear complaints about all the money that was given to CC.

December 12th, 2008, 11:46 AM
Well it looks like there gonna send Melk Man to Brew Crew for 36 year old Mike Cameron, good friend of CC's. Way to get rid of young talent, thats what my Yanks do best!

December 23rd, 2008, 07:49 PM
Sources: 'Tex' takes Yanks' 8-year deal

ESPN.com news services
Updated: December 23, 2008, 6:33 PM ET (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3790141) [excerpted]

The New York Yankees swooped in Tuesday and hooked prized free agent Mark Teixeira, reaching agreement with the first baseman on an eight-year contract worth $180 million, three sources involved in the negotiations told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney.

The agreement, which is subject to a physical, includes a signing bonus of about $5 million, no opt-out clause and a complete no-trade provision, the sources told Olney.

The contract will pay Teixeira, who made it clear he wanted to make a decision on where to play next season and beyond by Christmas, an average of $22.5 million per season. Boston's offer to Teixeira was for $168 million over eight years, an average of $21 million a year, the sources told Olney.

The deal also virtually eliminates any chance that free-agent outfielder Manny Ramirez has a landing place with the Yankees. New York does have money left to add another starting pitcher, most likely veteran left-hander Andy Pettitte at $10 million if he agrees to terms soon.

Teixeira's salary gives the Yankees, who are preparing to move into their $1.3 billion new ballpark in April, the four highest-paid players in Major League Baseball: himself, Sabathia, third baseman Alex Rodriguez (10 years, $275 million) and shortstop Derek Jeter (10 years, $189 million).

December 23rd, 2008, 07:56 PM
The deal also virtually eliminates any chance that free-agent outfielder Manny Ramirez has a landing place with the Yankees. Whew.

December 23rd, 2008, 08:04 PM
Did you read this piece (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/sports/baseball/21araton.html?em) in the Sunday Times about the prospect of a pinstriped Manny?

(I love the A-rod crack at the end.) :)

December 23rd, 2008, 09:42 PM
Tremendous pickup but he comes with a huge price tag... I am not sure he is worth $180MM despite all he has going for him including being a switch hitter, a helluv fielder, and a future 500+ home run clubber

But $180MM??? jeez... what the hell, I am not paying for it.

January 8th, 2009, 04:03 PM
AP source: Smoltz agrees to deal with Boston

By PAUL NEWBERRY, AP Sports Writer 48 minutes ago

ATLANTA (AP)—After more than two decades with the Braves, John Smoltz appears likely to finish his stellar career wearing a different uniform.

In a stunning end to one of baseball’s longest runs, Smoltz reached preliminary agreement on a contract with the Boston Red Sox after failing to work out a deal to return for his 22nd season with the Braves.

A person familiar with the negotiations, speaking on condition of anonymity because the final paperwork had not been completed, said Smoltz will sign a guaranteed deal with the Red Sox worth about $5 million and also have the possibility to earn another $5 million in performance bonuses. The deal was expected to be finalized later Thursday.

The Red Sox also agreed to a one-year contract with outfielder Rocco Baldelli, but clearly the deal with Smoltz is the biggest splash yet for a team that lost to Tampa Bay in the AL championship series and is looking to keep pace with the rival Yankees, who’ve doled out $423.5 million in contracts to three players after missing the playoffs last season.

Smoltz, the only pitcher in baseball history with 200 wins and 150 saves, had pitched for the Braves since 1988. The 41-year-old is coming off major shoulder surgery that sidelined him for most of last season, but feels healthy enough to pitch at least one more year.

If able to come back, he’ll likely join a rotation that already includes Daisuke Matsuzaka (18-3), Jon Lester (16-6), Josh Beckett (12-10) and another newcomer, two-time All-Star Brad Penny. Smoltz prefers to finish his career as a starter.

Smoltz’s decision is a startling development given repeated statements that he wanted to spend his entire big-league tenure in Atlanta.

“I’ve been here for 21 years and I’m going to be here as long as there’s a position for me,” he said in September.

Smoltz was an unknown minor leaguer when acquired from Detroit in 1987 for Doyle Alexander, but went on to become a cornerstone of Braves’ teams that won a record 14 straight division titles from 1991-2005, including a World Series title in 1995. He apparently turned to the Red Sox after Atlanta balked at giving him more than a $3 million deal, the person said.

Braves general manager Frank Wren declined comment when reached by e-mail. Boston general manager Theo Epstein was scheduled to meet with the media later in the day.

Smoltz began his career as a starter, winning 24 games and the NL Cy Young Award in 1996. Numerous elbow problems led him to shift to the bullpen to relieve the stress on his arm, and he set an NL record with 55 saves in his first full season as a closer in 2002.

After three years finishing games for the Braves, Smoltz moved back to the rotation in 2005 and didn’t miss a beat, going 14-7 with a 3.06 ERA. He went 47-26 in his second run as a starter, but shoulder pain cut short the 2008 season after only six appearances.

Smoltz tried to pitch one game as a reliever, then underwent surgery to fix what he said were “five or six problems,” including his labrum, AC joint and biceps.

While acknowledging that similar operations have end the careers of many others, Smoltz felt encouraged enough about his rehabilitation to begin making plans for the new season. The Braves, however, were reluctant to make a deal with the aging pitcher, especially coming off a dismal season in which they missed the playoffs for the third year in a row.
This Sept. 7, 2007 file photo shows Atlanta Braves pitcher John Smoltz tipping his hat to fans as he leaves the game after giving up a hit to Washington Nationals' Ronnie Belliard, ending Smoltz's bid for a no-hitter, during the eighth inning of a baseball game at Turner Field in Atlanta. Smoltz has reached a preliminary agreement on a contract with the Boston Red Sox, a stunning end to his long career with the Atlanta Braves. The deal was expected to be finalized later Thursday Jan. 8, 2009.

“I’ve been written off before and I’m sure this is finally the time when everyone says, ‘Finally! This is the end,”’ Smoltz said late last season. “But I certainly don’t think that.”

His departure figures to create a major public-relations problem for a franchise that has fallen on hard times since the longest stretch of postseason appearances in baseball history. Smoltz has a record of 210-147 with 154 saves and a 3.26 ERA, while also becoming the winningest pitcher in postseason history at 15-4.

In addition, he became just the 16th pitcher to reach 3,000 strikeouts last April in one of his final appearances with the Braves.

Atlanta’s only major acquisition of the offseason has been pitcher Javier Vazquez, obtained in a trade with the Chicago White Sox. Wren failed to work out a deal for San Diego ace Jake Peavy and another top pitcher, free agent A.J. Burnett, rebuffed an offer from the Braves to sign with the Yankees.

With Smoltz having departed, the only pitching holdover from the Braves’ glory years is 42-year-old Tom Glavine. But he, too, is trying to come back from surgery and it’s not known if he’ll be healthy enough to pitch in 2009. The left-hander has said he will retire if he doesn’t play for Atlanta.

In Thursday’s other move, the Red Sox added Baldelli, who spent the majority of last season on the disabled list for the AL champion Rays. The 27-year-old batted .263 with four home runs and 13 RBI in 28 games.

January 8th, 2009, 04:21 PM
Kenny Rogers wasn't available? :rolleyes:

boston.com (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/sox_sign_baldel.html)

...Baldelli batted .263 with four home runs and 13 RBI in 28 games for the Rays in 2008. The righthanded hitter spent a majority of the year on the disabled list with a mitochondrial disorder. He was placed on the Rays' 60-day disabled list March 28 and reinstated to the roster Aug. 10 following two rehabilitation assignments.

The Red Sox have done extensive background work on Baldelli's health. The mitochondrial disorder was re-diagnosed as channelopathy this winter, and there is hope that Baldelli, through diet and medication, can play more than previously anticipated and not suffer the same muscle fatigue to his legs that nearly ended his career a year ago.

Smoltz, the only pitcher in baseball history with 200 wins and 150 saves -- he owns 210 of the former and 154 of the latter -- had pitched in the majors for the Braves since 1988, though he did miss the entire 2000 season after elbow surgery. He was acquired by Atlanta from the Detroit Tigers for pitcher Doyle Alexander Aug. 12, 1987.

The eight-time All-Star and winner of the 1996 National League Cy Young Award is coming off major shoulder surgery that sidelined him for most of the 2008 season. He is not expected to be able to pitch in the majors until May or June, but his acquisition gives the Red Sox their desired depth in their pitching rotation, and may make it more feasible to consider trading a young starter such as Clay Buchholz or Michael Bowden for a catcher.

Baldelli has compiled a .281 average, 52 homers and 234 RBIs in 447 games over five seasons, all with Tampa Bay. He was 4 for 20 with two home runs and six RBI in his postseason debut this past fall, and delivered a pivotal hit in Game 7 of the Rays' American League Championship Series victory over the Red Sox...

January 8th, 2009, 06:53 PM
I had to look it up.

Channelopathies are diseases caused by disturbed function of ion channel subunits or the proteins that regulate them. These diseases may be either congenital (often resulting from a mutation or mutations in the encoding genes) or acquired (often resulting from autoimmune attack on an ion channel).

There are a large number of distinct dysfunctions known to be caused by ion channel mutations. The genes for the construction of ion channels are highly conserved amongst mammals and one condition, hyperkalemic periodic paralysis, was first identified in the descendants of Impressive, a pedigree race horse.

The channelopathies of human skeletal muscle include hyper-, hypo- and normokalemic (high, low and normal potassium blood concentrations) periodic paralysis, myotonia congenita and paramyotonia congenita.
At least when the Evil Empire signs someone in questionable heath, it's more like a bad back.

I see a promotional event for the Sox: Channelopathy Awareness Day

January 9th, 2009, 01:31 PM
So far for the 2009 season, the Yankee payroll has dropped (I know, hard to believe) $45 million. That's what happens when you already have a big payroll and contracts expire.

Mike Mussina
Bobby Abreu
Jason Giambi
Andy Pettitte (maybe)
Carl Pavano (yay, finally)

I hope this extra cash lying around doesn't translate into Manny. Can't see him in a big Yankee Stadium left field, and he doesn't have a good arm for right field.

That leaves DH. Lots of idle time to invent media conspiracies.

April 25th, 2009, 12:47 PM
A propitious start for the rivalry.

Bay’s blast gave Rivera his 12th career blown save against the Sox, the most the future Hall of Famer has against any team. (http://www.itemlive.com/articles/2009/04/25/sports/sports04.txt)
Globe Staff Photo / Barry Chin

AP Photo

April 25th, 2009, 02:02 PM
I will be watching the Yankees/Red Sox game on FOX TV today. And I will be rooting for the New York Yankees to beat the Boston Red Sox. I am from Los Angeles. And I live in Los Angeles,CA.

April 27th, 2009, 12:30 AM

April 27th, 2009, 01:11 AM
That really really is terrible.

April 27th, 2009, 09:34 AM
Ellsbury Stealing Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbF7Hp2vIkY&feature=player_embedded)

April 27th, 2009, 07:18 PM
I will root for the New York Yankees to beat the Boston Red Sox.

April 28th, 2009, 01:17 AM
Root hard.

April 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM
I sure will root hard for the New York Yankees to beat the Boston Red Sox.

June 3rd, 2009, 05:07 PM
http://MLB.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-5240073dt.jpg (http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3293304&cp=1452345.1452682.715040)




June 3rd, 2009, 05:30 PM
Yanks and Bo. Sox; they're both sweet! :cool:

June 4th, 2009, 01:34 AM
I hate the Boston Red Sox. I will always root for the New York Yankees to beat the Boston Red Sox.

June 4th, 2009, 10:10 PM
I prefer neither the Boston Red Sox over the New York Yankees nor the New York Yankees over the Boston Red Sox. I don't take sides, so I like both the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees equally.

June 5th, 2009, 10:29 AM
Wtf??!!I once maneuvered really good seats to Yankee Stadium to take my then teen daughter to the game, she hoping to talk to Derek Jeter (which she did). Beforehand, I told her in no uncertain terms that she would wear a proper navy blue cap. Anything pink or with hearts on it, and the deal was off.

Yanks and Bo. Sox; they're both sweet! :cool:So Omega, mom once dropped you on your head?

June 5th, 2009, 10:39 AM
I don't take sides, so I like both the Boston Red Sox and the New York Yankees equally.

If you said hate both the Sox and Yanks equally I'd respect you more... ;)

I thought it was a rule that one is either a Yankee fan or a hater -- no middle way.

June 5th, 2009, 10:45 AM
KZ's mom also had the dropsies.

Most of Baseball World hates both of them. I don't know one person (who hasn't been dropped on his head) that likes both.

June 5th, 2009, 05:46 PM
Some I will be at Yankees game. I will be rooting for the New York Yankees to beat the Boston Red Sox at New Yankee Stadium sometime next decade.

June 6th, 2009, 11:20 AM
Big Papi is having his eyes checked.

Pardon me David, but maybe you should have your, umm, waistline checked. Dragging that gut through the hitting zone can't be easy.

You look like you can't hit a parked bus.

June 7th, 2009, 09:00 PM
If you said hate both the Sox and Yanks equally I'd respect you more... ;)

KZ's mom also had the dropsies.

Haha OK poor choice of words. I am equally indifferent towards the Sox and the Yanks.

Baseball ain't my bag.

June 8th, 2009, 10:02 AM
What, baseball fans can't like melons?

/me pretends innocence.