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NoyokA
October 26th, 2003, 12:00 AM
Anyone who frequents ssp.com can post the funniest quotes here.

I'll start. Regarding Park Avenue Place.

Ech quotes:


wait a minute....there using wood to build a 40 story tower.....um isnt that a little dangerous or is there just something that im not getting

NoyokA
October 26th, 2003, 12:05 AM
Here's another good one.

Regarding the new Conde Nast antenna.

JACKinNYC quotes:


I will commend them for pulling an ESB move by putting up the antenna just before Times Square Tower was/will be completed, thus keeping most of the attention for themselves.

Although TST is in a better location to be viewed from Times Square.

And here I was thinking the antenna was for broadcasting purposes. I wasnt aware that NYC had another raise for the skies... oooh.

Gulcrapek
October 26th, 2003, 12:07 AM
Try a bunch of vincent or Inspire ones... though they're mostly just stupid.

ZippyTheChimp
October 26th, 2003, 11:43 AM
Har.

I like watching Garcia try to keep order. Reminds me of Arnold and Kindergarten Kop.

New York City Skyline is sometimes amusing.

JMGarcia
October 26th, 2003, 08:18 PM
Its really pathetic actually. :roll:

phxmania2001
October 27th, 2003, 02:30 PM
Its really pathetic actually. :roll:

Yeah... it's hard to be sure which is more irritating-the entire process thus far, or the discussion.

Anyway... my all-time favorite is by volguus zildrohar: "'The Badlands'" is just a name. Like 'Hell's Kitchen', or 'Detroit'." :D

NoyokA
November 6th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Ech1368 quotes on a rampage:


57 FLOORS!?!?!? MAN WHY CANT THEY EVER PUT A BUILDING IN NYC MORE THAN 70 FLOORS.......AND NO IT DOESNT HAVE BIG FLOORS IT HAS AN EMPTY PACE LIKE CITICORP AND THE BUILDING IS NOT REALLY 1200 FEET AT ALL......GOD DAMMIT NEW YORK CITY CANT BUILD A SKYSCRAPER RIGHT FOR SHIT!!!

TLOZ Link5
November 6th, 2003, 06:04 PM
In reference to One Bryant Park, no doubt.

Isn't Citigroup *only* 59 stories?

NoyokA
November 6th, 2003, 06:16 PM
yeah that's right, bastards!

NoyokA
November 6th, 2003, 06:49 PM
ech1368 quotes:


IM NOT AN IDIOT IM STATING THE TRUTH

ZippyTheChimp
November 6th, 2003, 07:45 PM
Ech1368 tries to post an image (2 separate threads):

WTF???? HOW THE HELL DO I POST THINGS FROM THE DIAGRAMS I COPID THE PROPERTIES THING

what the FU*K I CANT POST PICTURES EVEN WHEN I PRESS IMG!!!!!!!!

The thread is Fresh Kills aerial photos. Ech1358 stays on topic:

that reminds me, what is going in place of the deutschte bank tower.......and are they imploding it or deconstructing........imploding would be quicker

Ech1368 on Libeskind:


YAY!!!! GO HOME LEBESKIND!!!!!!!

(Which i think is Poland or Russia but im not sure)


dont even think topography is a word...or maybe it is but hes still an idiot

Jasonik
November 6th, 2003, 09:01 PM
ech1368 on the Freedom Tower:

ITS GONNA TWIST!?!?!?!?!?! OMG THATS HORRIBLE .....I think we should ecxecute silverstien pataki and childs and let me do the desinging


I would build 2 1468 foot towerswith 111 floors

fluffypolly responds:

um ech r u gonna pay for the tower.

ech1368:

ha ha i WISH i had that kinda money....no id just desing them, then get paid for that

TLOZ Link5
November 7th, 2003, 12:23 AM
To be fair (which often implies playing the Devil's Advocate), there are some smart people on ssp.com forums. Heaven knows we've had our share of embarassments, also.

fioco
November 7th, 2003, 01:29 AM
TLOZ, you are a compassionate guy. I admire that. Now, will you hear my confession?

I was surprised to run across this thread because WiredNY (with very few exceptions) is a classy operation. I have learned a lot from this forum and hopefully I will not be afraid to ask stupid questions in the future in my quest for truth, knowledge, and how do they make those buildings so darn tall.

However, I must admit a perverse delight as I read the above postings. I have seen the same ones on ssp (and skycity). Sometimes I quickly move to another thread lest I contaminate my mind, at other times my eyes roll, or worse yet, I nearly roll on the floor with laughter.

Please forgive my transgressions and help me to mimic your more mature and reasoned approach. (But can I still enjoy an occasional 'occasion of sin'?)

With tongue out of cheek and properly placed in mouth,
fioco

TLOZ Link5
November 7th, 2003, 08:44 PM
No need to apologize, fioco. Although I said that there were definitely some smart people on other fora, I didn't necessarily say they were a majority.

And don't worry about asking "stupid" questions. The only stupid question is the unasked one, unless it has something to do with whether they're going to install a Stinger missile defense system on One Bryant Park.

Jasonik
November 7th, 2003, 09:26 PM
OMG!!!! i CANT BLEIVE THERE PUTING MISELS!!!? on Briant Park :cry: :cry: :evil: :evil: :shock:

i think i red sumware that STINGER!!! misels are missnig form a AIRFORCE BASE in NEW JESRY!!!!!!!! :x :x
bryent Park tower canhide its mislles in the clowds if it ghoes to 3000 FEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

DONT MESS WITH NEW YORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fioco
November 7th, 2003, 10:31 PM
A masterful aping of style, Jasonik.
Unless, of course, you're actually a SPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woe (correction: Whoa) is mE.

NoyokA
November 9th, 2003, 09:56 PM
Ech 1368 quotes:


his wife looks more like a man than he does....have u ever seen a pic of her....


when i first saw her on this forum she was wearing a unisex siut and i thought she was a guy... i thought that that was dannys business partner or that he was gay or something like that


but yea....nina looks like a guy

Gulcrapek
November 9th, 2003, 10:02 PM
Well, I kind of agree with him... no offense to Nina.

NoyokA
November 9th, 2003, 10:14 PM
Whatever. Ech1368 is one strange kid.

ZippyTheChimp
November 19th, 2003, 12:38 AM
Discussing the height of the WTC site office towers, HighRise110 writes:

The Libeskind plan is within a seven story pit. When they say a building is 88 floors, does the area in the pit count as seven of them? If that is true, then Freedom Tower will only go 81 floors into the sky (or 63 if the 70 story limit remains). For all the other buildings, subtract 7 from the floor count.

TLOZ Link5
November 19th, 2003, 12:40 AM
Err...

NYatKNIGHT
November 19th, 2003, 10:47 AM
:lol: Classic.

ZippyTheChimp
November 19th, 2003, 01:49 PM
From the also amusing NYC Skyline:

Moogman5 (he lasted here about 3 days before getting bounced) rallying the multitude:


If we're ever going to get our voices heard and have a real democratic process down at ground zero then we have to do the unavoidable. WE HAVE TO TAKE OVER AND BLOCK GROUND ZERO FOR AT LEAST ONE WORK DAY. (after all, it belongs to the public)
WE HAVE TO UNITE AND GO DOWN THERE AND STOP EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE WORKING DOWN THERE AND MAKE THEM LISTEN TO OUR CAUSE AND WE WOULD DO THIS PEACEFULLY BUT WITH RELENTLESS, AGGRESSIVE DETERMINATION. MOST NEW YORKERS WANT THE TOWERS BACK, IT'S A KNOWN AND PROVEN FACT. NEW YORK NEEDS A WAKE UP CALL AT GROUND ZERO AND IT'S ABOUT TIME THIS HAPPENED ALREADY.
WE WILL DENOUNCE BLOOMBERG AND PATAKI AND EXPOSE THE CORRUPTION WITH FACTS. THE MEDIA WILL GO NUTS ON THIS AND WE WILL PREVAIL AT LEAST IN EXPOSING THE CORRUPTION GOING ON DOWN THERE ON A WORLD-WIDE SCALE. Who's with me?

NoyokA
November 20th, 2003, 03:17 PM
Im wondering if these people have jobs?

JMGarcia
November 20th, 2003, 03:52 PM
I'm wondering if these people have a working grasp of reality?

Jasonik
November 20th, 2003, 06:19 PM
some_stupid_nut


Meh. I dont like any of them much. The one I dislike the most is Votives in Suspension. Sure it looks pretty cool. But its just empty space! And there is water all on the bottom so its not like people can walk anywhere. Its poop. I like Inversion the best. Like the Vietnam its simple but has a lot of meaning.


I find this hilarious. . . . maybe it's just me.

ZippyTheChimp
November 24th, 2003, 05:21 PM
More hilarity from NYC Skyline:

The question posed

Name one country that has more freedom? (than the US)
Moogman5 responds

Mexico, for starters.

ZippyTheChimp
November 28th, 2003, 12:49 PM
From SSP, SmileyPerson on memorials:

Old architecture ages like wine, modern architecture like beer.

Smiley Person's memorial competition entry:
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/83wtc_memorial_1.jpg

This one is corked.

TLOZ Link5
November 28th, 2003, 02:02 PM
Looks like a Hugh Feriss rendering.

Gulcrapek
November 28th, 2003, 02:22 PM
It's interesting... it would go nicely somewhere else.

NoyokA
November 28th, 2003, 05:08 PM
yea, 6-7 decades past.

ZippyTheChimp
December 1st, 2003, 12:02 PM
Plotting strategy on NYCS:

Freddy Krueger
For the Extreme pro-rebuilder - A last resort idea that I thought of should be a hunger strike in Albany. That would get us in the media
Moogman5
That's a lousy idea and you'd only be demonstrating the crazy side of us rebuilders. Enough people think we're nuts already, you don't need anymore! I still think the best plan is to take over ground zero

:P

Jasonik
December 1st, 2003, 12:12 PM
The best strategy would be for their financial backers to buy out Silverstein. :wink:

JMGarcia
December 1st, 2003, 12:30 PM
For the Extreme pro-rebuilder....

I love that quote. Its like something out of a sales brochure. For the extreme sports enthusiat we offer..... I fear its more like islamic extremists or fundamentalist christians though. ;)

NoyokA
December 2nd, 2003, 04:49 PM
Some people at ssp.com are smart and funny though, not trying to sound too arrogant...

Carfreak01 posts:

The opposite of NIMBY is YIMBY ( yes in my backyard)

I found that funny and not in an underminding sarcastic way either...

Jasonik
December 2nd, 2003, 05:14 PM
YIMBYS YUNITE!

NoyokA
December 13th, 2003, 02:35 PM
Something soo stupid was posted at Wired New York that it deserves to be posted amongst the other forums idiotic posts:


JCMAN320 quotes:


Yo New Yorkers get ready for a brawl because you are not gonna get the Nets without a big ugly fight. Get ready New Yorkers you are gonna see how us Jersey people get down and your gonna see Jersey at its toughest. NEW JERSEY: ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE!!

Freedom Tower
December 13th, 2003, 02:56 PM
Haha! That's an instant classic :wink:

NoyokA
December 15th, 2003, 08:28 PM
TalB quotes:


I believe durring baseball season more will probably want to see the Cyclones rather than the Nets.

Keyword being baseball season.

TomAuch
December 21st, 2003, 09:14 PM
TalB quotes:


I believe durring baseball season more will probably want to see the Cyclones rather than the Nets.

Keyword being baseball season.

I thought Tal was banned from WNY?

Gulcrapek
December 21st, 2003, 09:21 PM
He is, that's from SSP.

TomAuch
December 21st, 2003, 09:23 PM
He is, that's from SSP.

My mistake :D

phxmania2001
December 22nd, 2003, 11:38 AM
Haha! That's an instant classic :wink:

Careful what you say-he might sic his Joisey muscle on you. :wink:

Freedom Tower
December 22nd, 2003, 11:42 AM
Haha! That's an instant classic :wink:

Careful what you say-he might sic his Joisey muscle on you. :wink:

Uhoh, wouldn't want that to happen ;) :lol:

ZippyTheChimp
December 27th, 2003, 06:14 PM
TalB

signature quote: If you can't stand the big city then get out of it.
location: Pleasantville, NY

:P

dbhstockton
December 27th, 2003, 11:10 PM
Priceless! It's almost as good as hearing a nice Yogi bera quote.

NoyokA
December 28th, 2003, 06:01 PM
Kelvin gets his panties up and in a bunch over the height of One Bryant Park. Supposendly he knows more than the architects designing the building.


51 storeys ---> (ballpark) 208m/682'... plus a 280' needle spire?


Well, 15' floors is a strtch for this type of framing. I would think 13', or 13'-6" at the most, would do it. Excluding the 8 faux-floors at the top, it's only mid 600's (using 3@20' + 48@13').


well, regardless of what the artists produce in their renderings, the engineers will continue to use the same codes based on the same laws of physics to design the tower(s). Thus 51 floors won't rise any more than 650-ish...


A floor is a floor - regardless of whether you park people or air conditioners there. If you want to add 3 to 5 floors in the total to account for mechanical services, then it's going to be (3x20)+(48x13)+(4x13) = 736'. Then it's possibly over 700', but it's also a 55 storey tower too.

An 800' tower (to the roof) with just 51 floors averages almost 16' per floor. That ain't gonna happen because bankers don't like it and engineers can do much better.


Very true - and I'm not trying to pick a fight. I'm just simply pointing out that 51 floors is only going to produce 650' realisticaly (again sans spire).


Perhaps - perhaps not. If a mech floor is going to be more than say 12 – 15, they will often frame it for two floors (or more). Recall that there is a condition that prevents engineers from using long slender columns (buckling) and that these floors often only constitute a minority of the total.


Cute! Bogus? In what sense?

Conde Naste: 47 floors + what ever you want to call the top segment (bearing the “4”). My informal count yields no less than 48 floors below the Marquee and the height you quoted is to the top of this element (i.e. at the base of the spire/antenna. This structure’s 48 floors run no higher than 200m/656-ft. Running average 13.7 feet per floor.

Bloomberg Tower: I’m counting approximately 63 levels in the approximately 243m/797m height attributable to the functional space in this building. I am not counting the lighter coloured glass at the top as I can not verify it’s function. Nonetheless, the running average for Big Blue is 12.6’ per floor.

Bear Stearns: The 70’ glass spire aside, this project only rises 220m but is still enough to garner 14.7’ per floor. A fact attributable mostly to the function of the lower 8 – 10 floors.

Time Warner: 55 floors & 229m/751’. What did I say before? I think I suggested 736 for the 55-floored BoA. Not too far off, eh? The running average is thus 13.7 feet per floor on this one.

Times Square: Details appear to be sketchy, but the 221m height listed does not appear to be only for the 47 floors cited. As a result any data extrapolated from this project is “bogus” unless it is determined specifically what it may actually represent.

Random House: The top of the floors in this project barely get past the 185m/607-ft mark. It’s average then calculates to 11.7 ft/floor and thus falls well within the 10’ – 12’ per floor range expected of residential construction.

Excluding Random House, so we only count the apples with the apples in the big apple, the average works out to be 14.02 feet per floor.

Bogus indeed!


Yes you can if all you want is an estimate of the roof height. The spire/tip height is an entirely different phenomenon.


The first one: Conde Naste has 48 floors which rise no higher than 660'. I'm only counting floors. Not spire. Not antennae. Not any other garbage. Just floors. Count the floors (all of them) and divide by the roof height. Don't use Skyscrapers.com data as the two pieces of information are often not related to the same point. The average f/f height you get for a modern office building will be 12' - 14' on average. There are other circumstances where this is not the case (lobby floors, mech floors, special use floors). Generally speaking though, these elements constitute a minor share in the building's overall height.

If this BoA is 51 floors, expect it to be between 640' and 690' to the roof. If it has uncounted mech floors and we further assume 55 real floors, expect a little over 700'. I hate to burst bubbles here, but that's how it works.


The pictures are to narrow to accurately determine where the perspective points are located and there are too many non-orthagonal surfaces to make any reasonably accurate height estimate based on this type of analysis.

I guarantee 51 floors won't get anywhere near 900'. Not a snowball's chance in hell. I look at that rendering and I see convention curtain wall construction with a series of steel W12 perimeter columns. The plates look to be 150' to 170' on average and like have an 80' x 80' reinforced concrete core housing the building services. That leaves up to 45' clear spans on each side of the core to the wall (max). Your floor system is going to be Composite RC/Steel (6" concrete w/ studded beams and girders) up to 22" deep. Let's say W16's & W18's if we get into trouble. Unless otherwise spec'd, you have 9'-0" floor to ceiling clear for typ. class A building space. Reserve 12" for mech services and 12" for electrical/other.

6" + 18" + 9'-0" + 1' + 1' = 13'.

Knock out 51 floors at 13' f/f and you got a 663' building.

Some people suggested a few floors for trading purposes. Fine, but they usually aren't much more than 12' clear or 16' f/f. So add 5 floors with an extra 3'. Add the rooftop elevator machine room. They usually tag another 20' to the height.

New total: 698' to the top of the penhouse, and 678' to the main roof. No more - no less.

If indeed, the internal mechanical levels were not accounted for in that 51 floor total then -- as I pointed out before -- the height would be adjusted accordingly. A structure like this could have one main level or two independent ones. These floors wouldn't demand much more than 15' clear (19' f/f). Add 2 mech levels (but integrate one with the elevator machine room on the roof) for a new 697' total, but you would now technically need to also boost the floor count by 2 or 3 floors as well.

Roof top heights:

51 floor model ---> 678'

54 floor model ---> 697'

That's it - that's all.


OK - You guys obviously know more than I do. Nine Hundred feet for 51 floors it is. Do 'er up. Seventeen and a half foot floor to floors and thirteen and a half foot clears. Sounds great! Expensive as hell because it will effectively jump everyone's rent by 50%, but the added convenience of being able to pass regulation interstate trucks on every floor if need be is a but a small price to pay.


Trading floors are not unusually high (12' clear works well i think) and again there only be a few of them, but we don't know. Are there 3 or 4 or ar there 15 or 20?

Again - a floor is a floor is a floor. Mechanical floors & Leased floors. It makes no difference. We might add a few extra feet for a mech level, but we certainly don't have to make the same same adjustment on all the remaining floors to follow suit. We do not know if the 51 floor count includes or excludes mechanicals specifically. Assume 54 floors if it does not.

The spire height is completely unrelated to the roof height. All I am discussing is the potential roof height for a 51/54 storey building. And it ain't going to be 900+ feet. Put 65 floors on the table, then it's possible, but not a building in the low 50's. All that will get you is upper 600's or possibly into the lower 700's.


JM - please read my previous discussion about floor counts and building heights. What is cited for each statistic is not necessarily the same point. Sears Tower for example has 108 official floors but the 1450' height is to the top of the penhouse (110th). Not a big deal, but Petronas has 88 floors and an official height of 1482' and a roof height of ~1325'. Hey, Petronas has 16.8' floors right? No - it works out to 15' floors because we use ROOF height. But wait - the owners won't list the mech floors as being official. There are really 93 floors and they use 88 because it has "luck" associated with it. Thus it's really 14.25' floors. Again, Petronas has some commercial space in the first half dozen floors that push the average up (in this case a bit over 14').

So before you all start and say "Well, that's Petronas. These are different", I want you to count the floors (all of them) for any project you want to cite. Do not under any circumstances use the "official" number from any source including this website, SS.com, or any other. Odds are it does not truely reflect the real floor number. Once you've counted them for yourself, find the roof height. Both this site and SS.com have pretty reliable data in this regard, however be cognisant of the fact that there ancilliary components on the roof that should not count as the roof height. What you want is the elevation of the enclosing surface immediately over the last occupiable floor. Divide height by floor count. Odds are you will get 12' to 14'. This project is not going to be any different. No one is going to take the time to rewrite all of the established conventions of modern building construction to satisfy a few forumers who want a 51 storey building in NYC to push it's real roof over 900'.


900 feet - fantastic! But please don't call it a 51 storey building. Like I said, if they called for 65 floors, I would believe them.


The tip may very well get noted as the official height, but I want to know where the roof is. Not the tip, the part that keeps the rain out. Fifty one floors is a 650' project. Add as much as you want to that, but the roof hasn't budged one inch. From what I see in the sepia tone rendering, approx. 120' to 150' can seen above the -----R-O-O-F--L-I-N-E----- . It will then get logged as say 800' to the top of the Structure and people will then erroneously calculate that it has 15.7' floor-to-floor heights.


But it's not enclosed space. The roof is the part of the building that covers the highest normally occupiable space. It can be mechanical space, but only if it's enclosed. Open sections and parapet walls are not roofs.

JM - are those sections open to the elements or enclosed for purpose of maintaining an "interior" space (ie. dry & warm)?


True, more detailed renderings will tell the tale. As for roofs, any mechanical unit (mounted on the roof or otherwise) doesn't require any more than about 12' to 15' vertical clearance. If they become any larger, they become difficult to handle, assemble, transport, etc. That and they really don't need to be larger. A roof elevation that exceeds a height which is strictly required, or oversized roofline elements (parapets, rails, etc.) are thus purely architectural in nature and nothing more than empty space included for the aesthetic of the building.

Is that what the the designers of this project are intending? A 650' building with a 300' balloon space on top?


Back to 16'-8" floors (850' / 51 floors)?? I'm really curious why this building needs 51 floors with near 13' clears?

At any rate, here a few interesting tidbits:

Of the 38 projects @ skyscrapers.com that have both a known height and 51 floors, only 5 exceed an average of 14' per floor and three others fall below 10' per floor. The tallest is the Office Tower of J.R. Central Towers at 245m (804 feet) while the shortest is Tierra Verde 1 at 145m (476') in Hong Kong. The remaining 30 projects fall within the expected 10' - 14' range I described earlier for typical office and residential construction. Of this group of thirty, eleven projects find their way into the 12' to 14' group and thus nineteen remain in the 10' - 12' band. This is to be expexted given the number of office, mixed use, and residential projects cited.

>14' per floor....5 projects
12' - 14' /floor....11 projects
10' - 12' /floor.....19 projects
<10' per floor....3 projects

A total of 8 are in NYC ranging between Three World Financial (225m/738') and the Sheraton N.Y. (153m/502'). Again, once the voluminous (and largely voided) crown/cap is deducted from 3WFC, it too has a more reasonable base floor-to-floor average (based on 209m roof) of 13.4'/4.1m.


Mostly bridges and industrial projects, Enzo - commercial has too many architects involved

So, two 20' lobbies plus 20' trading floors and 47 presumeably normal office floors. Even if we max the office floors to 14', I get a possible roofline elevation of 738'. That's still well under 100' lower than the 860' mark. Sorry - I still can't see it.

Of all the projects I've listed, discussed, cited, or otherwise commented on; none have exceeded 15' (all floors averaged) and almost all are 14' or below. That's how it works. Economy. The banker's want to see a maximum return on investment based on minimum risk. To do that, you have to minimize construction costs. To do that, you keep the height low (cost of construction is exponential wrt height) and use conventional procedures. To do that, you use the tried and true designs that have been around for 100+ years in the building industry. By pushing floor heights up higher, you increase the cost to build the same leasable area and make for unhappy bankers (and we all know what bankers do when they see somthing that makes them unhappy). I have yet to go to a client meeting where the first question out of their mouths isn't "How much?". It's without doubt the most important factor when a putting project together.

Using a crude cost comparison formula, I might suggest that the average 51-floor (14' floors) 714' building would go for about $285 Million. Push that to 860' and the cost is likely to be $415 Million. What value are you adding to the project by increasing the base cost by 46%?


JM - I'm not sure I see any mechanical items in the photo you posted or has it just not been put in place yet. If I were the contractor, I would put the mech units in first and then construct the parapets following that. As for water towers, they are seperate from the building proper. They don't have floors and could be either inside or outside the building envelope. If one feels the need to include it as part of the building's roof height then it is obviously a "special" floor of unusual dimension. Like I indicated, Mech. Floors and Elevator Rooms rarely need to exceed 20' in height. If the water tower really needs to be any higher than that (which I doubt), then there is no reason why it couldn't be located in the upper mech levels.


Yes, it is another excellent example where the floor count refers to one point and the stated height another. Apples v. Oranges.


10 floors of mechanical space?? What do they intend to manufacture up there I wonder? Most power plants are only a couple hundred feet but that would include all the workings to put out a 1000 MW. You can build a textile mill in 60' and a paper mill in 80'. Smelters are 150' or so.

Well what ever it is, I'm sure the 150' on top of this project will be put to good use.


Like I said, the structural top may very well be 860' or 960'. The roof is not going to be anywhere near that.

When I read the press release, i said to my self "why are they building such a small project?". Fifty one floors is squat compared to other BoA projects and I'm wondering why the designers of this project are planning somthing so diminutive in relation to them.

Seattle - 76F
Dallas - 72F
Charlotte - 60F
Houston - 56F
Atlanta - 55F
San Fran - 52F
Los Angeles - 52F
NYC - 51F (possibly more due to uncounted Mech levels)
Miami - 47F
etc.


51 floors x 13'/floor = 663' by my calculations, which is ~200' below 860'.

ZippyTheChimp
December 28th, 2003, 06:47 PM
Is he getting hot under the collar?

What's Kelvin's temperature?

fioco
December 29th, 2003, 01:45 AM
I couldn't resist quoting my handy Canadian Oxford Dictionary:
Kelvin scale. a scale of temperature with absolute zero as zero.

But we already knew that because a floor's a floor, you know.

JMGarcia
December 29th, 2003, 08:51 AM
The door is a jar.

fioco
December 29th, 2003, 12:19 PM
LOL! Great wit. Have any more?

NYguy
December 31st, 2003, 05:37 PM
Can't believe I missed this thread (I'm on ssp a lot)....anyway, I'll post some quotes from one of my favorites, TalB...

On the subject of the new NETS arena in Brooklyn



I agree with Dan here. I think that the Giants should go in Brooklyn rather than the Nets



NYguy, I own a car and use it a lot. You should know that placing a parking lot will cause for some of the stores to close as well as the other buildings.............Gio, although you are right about the Nets being known until just recently, that doesn't mean they weren't known locally. Against playoff contenders such as the Lakers, Kings, Spurs, etc they would sell out on those games...............Actually, the location of Continental Airlines Arena isn't the difficult to get to especially since it's right off the the NJ Tpk and has a route that goes all the way to the Lincoln Tunnel. Moving the team to Brooklyn doesn't mean that they will get better attendence.



The only reason why Ranter wants the Nets to move to Brooklyn is b/c a number of people in the NY area want to get to an arena by train................. I feel that he cares more about the money than he does with the team. If they were to move to Brooklyn or some other place, that would have been done a long time ago yet that didn't happen...................... Doesn't Brooklyn have two former MLB stadiums in it? If you are to go around the quiet streets of Brooklyn, you will not find kids playing streetball, they are playing stickball..................The only thing good about Ranter's site is that he knows that Michael Jordan was born in Brooklyn unlike many who say he is from NC, but let's not get into that argument



I think the only reason you want the Nets to be in Brooklyn is b/c you probably don't own a car like I do. I don't see why an arena like this can't just go in Newark. The Grizzlies left for Memphis in 2001, and still nobody wants to see them. What makes you think that Nets will be more respected just b/c they move to Brooklyn? Why don't they just share MSG with the Knicks just like how the Lakers/Clippers share Staples Ctr? If you owned a car, you would say something different.



The only thing that disturbs me on this is the fact that Brooklyn has a long history of baseball rather than baskettball, which is my main reason why they may not fit in here. I believe durring baseball season more will probably want to see the Cyclones rather than the Nets..............


Find these and many more amusing TalB quotes at the skyscraperpage forum, all for NO COST (other than your sanity if taking in too many at one time)...

ZippyTheChimp
January 1st, 2004, 09:06 AM
TalB on Trump properties downtown:


talb: The only building he currently owns in lower Manhattan is 40 Wall St, which he bought on some year after WWII.

ech1368: after WW2??? How Old is he???


talb: I don't think he's that old, it's just that I don't know the year he bought the ownership of 40 Wall St even though I know it was definately after WWII.

1945: WWII ends
1946: Trump born

NYguy
January 1st, 2004, 11:26 AM
Those two (ech1368 and TalB) are classic. Now you only need one more poster from ssp and you have the perfect mix. Of course, I'm talking about no other than Daquan13!

OMG, put those three in a thread all their own, and watch the magic. We're talking thread of the year....just check the WTC forum...

Gulcrapek
January 1st, 2004, 01:11 PM
I think Daquan has matured a lot since he registered... more worried (maybe paranoid) about keeping things cool nowadays.

ZippyTheChimp
January 1st, 2004, 01:19 PM
How old do you think he is?

Gulcrapek
January 1st, 2004, 01:22 PM
I meant postwise. I remember reading somewhere or in his profile or something that he was 53.

ZippyTheChimp
January 1st, 2004, 01:28 PM
Yes, but he's had plenty of time to mature. I miss his flock of emoticons.

NYguy
January 1st, 2004, 05:59 PM
I meant postwise. I remember reading somewhere or in his profile or something that he was 53.

I hope that wasn't right....

NYatKNIGHT
January 2nd, 2004, 12:40 PM
I assumed the 13 in Daquan13 was his age - that seemed about right.

TomAuch
January 3rd, 2004, 12:31 AM
Those two (ech1368 and TalB) are classic. Now you only need one more poster from ssp and you have the perfect mix. Of course, I'm talking about no other than Daquan13!

OMG, put those three in a thread all their own, and watch the magic. We're talking thread of the year....just check the WTC forum...

Oh God I HATE TalB!!! That little prick is the most childish person I've met. His assinine posts go beyond talking about Trump and the Nets. When a member of NYCS started a thread about how his mother died, Tal just pissed it off by saying "let's let this thread die and get back to rebuilding". He has also insulted the FDNY time and time again in terms of how they "mishandled" 9/11, and he called the USA "Unanimously Stupid Americans". I'm glad he was banned from here (in addition to being the only member of NYCS ever banned, and from Savethewtc's forum). I don't understand why Lou Epstein allows him to stay on his mailing list though. Tal's a big fat retard who does more damage to his cause than good, and this damage is probably ten times worse than what "Freddy Krueger" and "moogman5" could do.

ZippyTheChimp
January 3rd, 2004, 12:14 PM
I find them harmlessly ridiculous. I'm glad they're still around, but not here. (sorry JMGarcia) :wink:

JMGarcia
January 4th, 2004, 10:43 AM
I'm glad they're not here too. ;) Its nice to have a sane place to come to.

ZippyTheChimp
January 4th, 2004, 11:47 AM
Your design competition is brilliant. Keep them busy with arts and crafts. All you need is a cardigan and a toy trolley - the next Mr Rogers.

It's a lovely day at Skyscraper Page... :P

JMGarcia
January 4th, 2004, 02:12 PM
LOL :lol:

It's a wonderful day at groud zero, ground zero, .....

Gulcrapek
January 4th, 2004, 02:43 PM
Hopefully it will be someday...

Sometimes I just can't understand Tal, he's either dumb or incomprehensible. And I dislike his 'neighborhood tours', because they often give distorted views through outdated or really crappy pictures.

NYguy
January 4th, 2004, 08:13 PM
Hopefully it will be someday...

Sometimes I just can't understand Tal, he's either dumb or incomprehensible. And I dislike his 'neighborhood tours', because they often give distorted views through outdated or really crappy pictures.

Not to mention he posts too many photos. He completely destroyed my "Empire State" thread over at skyscraperpage. Even I don't want to look at it..

ZippyTheChimp
January 8th, 2004, 11:16 PM
Of Towers & Toothbrushes

GR2NYsoon wonders if the location of the footprints are accurate:

Because if any of it is off, then its we're suckers for beleiveing its exactly where the twins stood. I hate little white lies like that. Did you guys know that the crest spinbrush doesnt really spin ?

LuPeRcALiO
January 10th, 2004, 03:41 PM
Did you guys know that the crest spinbrush doesn't really spin?
that's one thing SSP has on crest.

LuPeRcALiO
January 10th, 2004, 11:49 PM
incidentally that was a pretty funny observation. Forumers aside, SSP is a strange mix of inaccuracy and mendacity, or about what you'd expect from a Canadian propaganda mill.

ZippyTheChimp
January 11th, 2004, 11:25 AM
Spin? Spin doctors?

The crest toothbrush oscillates. Hmmmm, oscillates, vacillates.

Political opportunists, FENCE SITTERS!!!

I'll have to look more closely; I only read it for the comics. :P

ZippyTheChimp
January 14th, 2004, 02:20 PM
This may be a joke, but I'm not sure...

Water Works at the WTC Memorial:

I hope they have a lot of toiletts near by, the constant sound of water will make lots of peole want to take a piss quite badly, something not too appropritate for a memorial don't you think?
What's that jingle...

Gotta-go gotta-go gotta-go right now.

Gulcrapek
January 14th, 2004, 03:28 PM
Haha... but I think he may be right. :?

NYguy
January 15th, 2004, 06:34 PM
Another TalB classic, brought to you by SSP...



just ran accross this and i figured its worth telling about. i actually bought it for like 5 seconds, hehe.......

http://www.schoolsalad.com/sinking/page4.html



Did this event actually happen, or did somebody just make this up?

Not picking on Tal, but he's hillarious sometimes....

NoyokA
January 20th, 2004, 05:26 PM
An SSP administator scoofs at BOFA's height, albeit it's double the height of his cities tallest, its a cowardice height.


Werlcome to Manhattan, the land where fake facades and anemic cheater spires rule the architectural landscape.

Fear has won.

Intellectual snobbiness at its best! :roll:

ZippyTheChimp
January 20th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Where is he from?

NoyokA
January 20th, 2004, 07:27 PM
Tampa. I used to live there, trust me, it's not a superior city.

ZippyTheChimp
January 24th, 2004, 08:09 PM
The atmosphere at NYCS is becoming quite surreal. In this thread (http://www.theopinion.com/newyorkcityskyline/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=rebuild;action=display;num=107281752 1;start=75), the members discuss a hunger strike as a tactic for getting back the twin towers.

ll (I don't know if this is Two, Eleven, EL-EL - :idea: wait, I get it. It's two really big buildings) wrote:

As for the hunger strike idea...I don't know how that would turn out. What happened to Homer Simpson when he went on a hunger strike to prevent the Isotopes from moving to Albuquerque, before things worked out? Was he laughed at?

Now I'm really confused. Do you mean that Homer guy on TV, and I guess his family, are real people? :?

Gulcrapek
February 24th, 2004, 07:07 PM
TalB:

I can see that they are now going to make the ground for the building to go in.

...he has many more like that. And he has quite tha talent for stating the obvious.

Freedom Tower
February 24th, 2004, 09:15 PM
TalB:

I can see that they are now going to make the ground for the building to go in.

...he has many more like that. And he has quite tha talent for stating the obvious.

That's a hilarious quote. I also like the homer simpson one posted above. BTW, this talb character, he seems to be hated around here. I've never actually understood why. What happened with him and this forum? I probably joined up after he left or got banned? If someone doesn't mind telling me about him or at least point me in the direction of some of his former postings so i can see what made him so notorious.

Gulcrapek
February 24th, 2004, 10:52 PM
He kept bitching about the twin towers and bringing it up everywhere. He does the same on SSP and constantly makes ignorant comments related to that and not related... he's just a dumb whine who won't shut up, really.

Freedom Tower
February 25th, 2004, 07:19 AM
Haha, Ok thanks for the clarification.

JMGarcia
March 1st, 2004, 03:28 PM
TalB:
The reason why the Twins were built on the west side was b/c the NJ portion of the PA also wanted to get a good look at the Twins, and Radio Row was seen as a slum anyway, knowing that it was going to be turn down either way.

LOL! LOL! LOL!

Gulcrapek
March 1st, 2004, 04:39 PM
I wonder what he's like in person.

dbhstockton
March 1st, 2004, 06:33 PM
He's probably 12 years old.

JMGarcia
March 1st, 2004, 06:47 PM
Nah, I saw him on NY1 at one of the public hearings. Definitely an adult physically.

Gulcrapek
March 1st, 2004, 06:49 PM
He was on NY1? I hope there's a stored image somewhere. Probably not. I'd like to see how he acts.

NYatKNIGHT
March 1st, 2004, 06:58 PM
I saw him at a CB1 meeting that Libeskind attended. Had a name tag, "Tal", and wore some twin towers button. He acted just like his posts: annoying. Fidgeted in his seat, sounded exasperated, was clearly agitated at just about everything said.

ZippyTheChimp
March 1st, 2004, 07:47 PM
With his vast knowledge of NY, I always pictured him as...


http://www.gothamgazette.com/graphics/MOTHERNICK.GIF

NoyokA
March 1st, 2004, 08:07 PM
Since everyone's ranking on TalB:

http://www.pbase.com/image/26425529/large.jpg


I can see that they have started to dismantle what is believed to be the tallest by removing it's windows.

TLOZ Link5
March 2nd, 2004, 01:26 AM
żQue?

NoyokA
March 2nd, 2004, 04:04 PM
NyGuy posted the pic.

TalB was just telling us something that we couldnt see ourselves.

dbhstockton
March 2nd, 2004, 04:24 PM
Yes, and there appears to be some kind of structure blocking the sun's path in the lower left-hand portion of the building, causing what is believed to be a shadow.

ZippyTheChimp
March 3rd, 2004, 06:08 AM
I learn so much here.

NoyokA
March 7th, 2004, 04:14 PM
Anyone notice how skyscrapercity is:

the savethewtc forum

with savethewtc

reposting and most often without giving credits everything posted here.

Gulcrapek
March 7th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Yeah I noticed everything he posts was posted here the hour before. But I don't think he has to give credit for info.

ZippyTheChimp
March 22nd, 2004, 06:39 PM
TalB has adjusted his signature quote, but he still doesn't have it quite right.

The original

If you can't stand the big city then get out of it.
has become

If you can't stand the big city then get out of it and move into the village.
He's still in Pleasantville, so does he mean his village?
Could it be The Village?
Yep, they're just too rural for the city.

Gulcrapek
March 22nd, 2004, 06:54 PM
Stern and I steamed off a bit on him, let's see the response. :D

Gulcrapek
March 23rd, 2004, 07:20 PM
:D :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:





Quote by STERNyc
Its soo very preposterous and your soo very aggravating. If you had posted any of this nonsensical rambling at Wired New York I wouldve deleted it all a long time ago.

I really dont undertand why this stick is wedged so far up your ass....



Sorry, I don't buy into threads such as yours, and I've heard some that were much worse than this one. STERN, you sure know the definition of flamming by your own words. On a sidenote, close that thread that says SSP.com Quotes for good. Also, get some anger management to control your temper b/c you sure seem to act more like a child when someone disagrees with you.

NoyokA
March 23rd, 2004, 07:38 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :wink:

fioco
March 24th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Stern & Gulcrapek: Rise to your highest character, you two. I realize that TalB gets on your nerves with his annoying and obstructive responses on SSP, but too much ribbing takes the shine off your halos :twisted: :evil: (hmmm, you've some pointy halos there, but I saw them glowing. ( :P Must be your magnetic personalities.)

Part of the time I think TalB does it just to get your goat. It's the other part of the time that has me worried. I certainly don't expect you to be angels, but in all other posts you two demonstrate great maturity and integrity to the shame of older adults who ought to know better. I'd rather you keep us old folks on the Q.T. and let TalB make his own reservations at Belleview. :wink:

Gulcrapek
March 24th, 2004, 07:02 PM
I've made recommendations to him before but he just kept doing what he does. He thinks he knows everything about the city, posts 'neighborhood tours' full of outdated, crappy pictures he found on google or good pictures not credited, and occasionally gives out misinformation.

NoyokA
March 24th, 2004, 07:29 PM
Stern & Gulcrapek: Rise to your highest character, you two. I realize that TalB gets on your nerves with his annoying and obstructive responses on SSP, but too much ribbing takes the shine off your halos (hmmm, you've some pointy halos there, but I saw them glowing. ( Must be your magnetic personalities.)

Please! TalB doesn’t get on my nerves, he has no life whatsoever.

Its all for shits and giggles, if I post anything its to push a response, that’s all.

fioco
March 25th, 2004, 10:46 AM
I think I have a better understanding now. Thank you. I still encourage you two to maintain the high character you obviously possess. Dont' let the fun get out of hand. I may be shocked :shock: , perplexed :? , embarrassed :oops: or surprised :o , but I'm sure you'll keep me laughing, too :lol: . Carry on. :wink:

ZippyTheChimp
March 27th, 2004, 05:25 PM
An SSP allegory on the Freedom Tower as replacement for the Twin Towers:


let me put it this way. Let's say you have a brother who's kind of tall and geeky but you get along. One day he gets kidnapped by a child pornography ring. Pretty soon the cops come around to return him but they bring some other kid. What are you gonna say, "thanks fellas, I like this guy better?" Hell no, you're gonna make damn sure you get your brother back.


I think it's more like, your brother gets run over and killed (the twins were definately not just taken away and hidden somewhere, they were outright destroyed), would you rather have a clone or a new baby brother?


Now I understand my not preferring the twin towers. It's an unresolved childhood conflict with my dumbass brother. I should go see a structural psychologist.

Shouldn't it be twin brothers?

fioco
March 28th, 2004, 01:45 AM
Oh Zippy, LOL! Once again I have liquid refreshment at my keyboard and made a mess. When will I learn I can not imbibe when I visit WiredNY? BTW, if anyone knows where these folks live, please tell me. I will never set foot in those neighborhoods. I've heard some strange analogies before, but these give me the willies. Who wants to bet that one of them is a psychiatrist?

MidnightRambler
April 5th, 2004, 01:45 AM
From a thread about an article (http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101040329/nhomeland.html) in Time Magazine questioning why the government is spending more money on homeland security in the frontier states than New York or California...


These military needs to have bases for setting up their operations and storing their weapons. They are actually more safer doing it in states with smaller populations b/c there are numerous places in those states where nobody usually goes to. Therefore, it makes sense to put them there.

This one, from the "Origin Of Your Screen Name" thread, is more subtly amusing...


The B at the end of my screenname is the first letter of my last name, which Barzilai. The rest is my actual first name. I don't choose to hide my name that much when it comes to screennames, it's usually the email adresses that I would to make it difficult. Some may already know my whole name from the letters that they read on newspapers like the NY Post that were from me.

Gulcrapek
April 24th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Commenting on NYGuy's pictures of the building at the NYTimes site being demolished, Tal says:


That building is defenately comming down.



2 points: both stating the obvious and significant misspellings.

Pilaro
April 25th, 2004, 12:35 AM
I love to read the absurd postings on SSP, sadly i can never participate becuase my registration from the homepage somehow manages to become invalid at the forum pages. My favorites are the occasional inaccurate information posts. Oh well, i do think something is seriously wrong when a highschool student like myself exposed to this nonsense everyday(through my peers) must question,
I'm wondering if these people have a working grasp of reality?

ZippyTheChimp
April 26th, 2004, 01:20 PM
http://www.thecityreview.com/byard1.gif

Commenting on the once proposed tower over Grand Central...


This building looks strikingly similar to the tower at the United Nations complex.

Maybe a little Lever House, but the response...


it does...unoriginal architects copying bad ideas piss me off.

TLOZ Link5
April 26th, 2004, 02:05 PM
If I may add my two cents, I can only think of the shadows that would be cast by that monstrosity. As for the MetLife Building, City Review had suggested that it would have looked better over the old Penn Station, albeit turned on its axis, with the narrow ends pointing north-south.

ZippyTheChimp
April 26th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Met Life is another story. I was pointing out the comments concerning the UN Secretariat.

TLOZ Link5
April 26th, 2004, 09:27 PM
Met Life is another story. I was pointing out the comments concerning the UN Secretariat.

Well, the fenestration patterns, and perhaps the massings, are similar, but other than that I see no big similarities.

Anyway, back to the original subject.

AJphx
May 5th, 2004, 05:26 AM
Oh LOL...... funny thread.

Here is another one from TalB in response to Trump Chicago:

It's too bad that we can't have something like this in NYC, which had one of the attacks on 9/11.


Another guy with great sayings is LeCom... haven't seen anything from him in this thread yet, so here is one:

My cell phone once called 911 by itself and talked for 77 minutes.

Gulcrapek
May 5th, 2004, 02:50 PM
LeCom's intelligent though. :)

As for the rest of the thread I have to say the Ech1368 has matured a great deal since then and is very well behaved and a decent contributor to discussion (mostly).

Gulcrapek
May 13th, 2004, 04:38 PM
Tal (in a thread of NYGuy's skyline pictures from Jersey):


The first two pics was where I was when getting to the Nets game on Tuesday when using the Lincoln Tunnel.


It just seems completely irrelevant to me.

NoyokA
May 13th, 2004, 06:41 PM
Yea, but this is the best.


John, the only reason why the Medowlands were picked was b/c nobody lived there so it would be a good idea to build a sports complex by having a prestigous location of being near a major highway like the NJ Tpk (I-95).

I can see it now, newly built 3Br with beautiful freeway views and prestigious address just off Turnpike Exit.

TLOZ Link5
May 13th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Imagine the real estate ads :roll:

NYatKNIGHT
May 14th, 2004, 10:07 AM
It just seems completely irrelevant to me.

It is, and it's irritating.

That, and he posts pictures from Wired New York (and other websites) without crediting.

NoyokA
May 17th, 2004, 06:50 PM
I’m wondering if ECH’s rants at SSP are sociopathic or psychopathic?

Gulcrapek
May 17th, 2004, 07:08 PM
I haven't seen any lately..

NoyokA
May 17th, 2004, 07:12 PM
I was reffering to the Con Ed Site thread.

NoyokA
May 17th, 2004, 07:14 PM
The fact that he breaks down and wimpers back in a matter of minutes is particularly disturbing.

ZippyTheChimp
May 18th, 2004, 11:16 AM
Teenage hormonal rage.

londonlawyer
May 20th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Skyscraperpage.com really bites. But for a few cool people, many retarded jackasses are members of that board. They should change the name to anusol.com!!!

Gulcrapek
May 20th, 2004, 06:50 PM
How many times are you going to say the same stuff over and over again?

NoyokA
May 20th, 2004, 07:50 PM
The man hates SPP, what can you say?


anusol.com!!!

I dont get it?

londonlawyer
May 20th, 2004, 07:59 PM
How many times are you going to say the same stuff over and over again?

Take it easy, Gulcrapek. The assholes at ssp boned me. With respect to my repetition, can one ever stop saying that Bid Laden and Hitler are dicks?

londonlawyer
May 20th, 2004, 08:00 PM
The man hates SPP, what can you say?


anusol.com!!!

I dont get it?

I just meant that they're assholes and hence, the product anusol is appropriate for them (at least when they're not using vasoline on their anuses)!

Gulcrapek
May 20th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Nope. But I don't go around saying to everyone that they're dicks. I know they are, and when someone asks or the topic comes up, I may say it. I just don't go around putting into everything I do.

londonlawyer
May 20th, 2004, 08:02 PM
The man hates SPP, what can you say?


anusol.com!!!

I dont get it?

By the way, they were biased against me because I proclaim that NY is the best city in America by far. Did you see the bullshit that that dick FFlint banned me for? I was responding to an unprovoked insult from that little prick Chitown.

NoyokA
May 20th, 2004, 08:22 PM
I just meant that they're assholes and hence, the product anusol is appropriate for them (at least when they're not using vasoline on their anuses)!

That's a little more information than I wanted to know and explains why I never heard of it, certainly not something I would use :lol:


By the way, they were biased against me because I proclaim that NY is the best city in America by far. Did you see the bullshit that that dick FFlint banned me for? I was responding to an unprovoked insult from that little prick Chitown.

I'll agree that Chitown is a second rate member from a second rate city, the problem being his ego complex.

NoyokA
May 20th, 2004, 08:25 PM
But its a closed discussion. Lets not post spam, let's not forget where we're at, the better Wired New York forum :wink:

Gulcrapek
May 20th, 2004, 08:31 PM
New from the neverending fountain of Tal, responding to Derek's full 500ft project thread over there:


This isn't surprising b/c Manhattan is on an island and it has to build up.

NoyokA
May 20th, 2004, 08:35 PM
I think he stole that from somewhere's :lol: :lol: :lol:

TLOZ Link5
May 20th, 2004, 09:28 PM
What a pearl of wisdom :roll:

londonlawyer
May 20th, 2004, 10:36 PM
But its a closed discussion. Lets not post spam, let's not forget where we're at, the better Wired New York forum :wink:

I agree! New York (and its own forum) rule!

Ninjahedge
May 21st, 2004, 09:29 AM
New York HAS to be built up!!!

Otherwise how will we survive the Day after Tomorrow?


:P





PS, UGH!!!!!

Edward
May 21st, 2004, 09:56 AM
I just meant that they're assholes and hence, the product anusol is appropriate for them (at least when they're not using vasoline on their anuses)!

This language is highly inappropriate, as well as references to Bin Laden and Hitler, and will not be tolerated on this board. I would also recommend to spell-check "vaseline".

Ninjahedge
May 21st, 2004, 02:57 PM
You mean I was not the only one that found him to be a bit, um, vulgar? :)

ZippyTheChimp
May 21st, 2004, 05:28 PM
No.

After deleting and locking 2 threads, I figured he was just angry about SSP, so I ignored it, thinking it would just die out.

I was wrong.

NoyokA
May 22nd, 2004, 05:20 PM
TALB's soaring towers thread is a barrel of laughs:

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d1168018f807b2d7143404be56649d89& threadid=42755

Gulcrapek
May 22nd, 2004, 05:30 PM
Meh. I was intentionally avoiding that thread.


My guess it was from the 1970's when the Twins were rebuilt. This was based on the fact that they were towers known to soar hence the term soaring towers


Honestly, most people think of skyscrapers that are towers to be usually around 100 stories. Of course if I could see where you got this information and it is actually from the 1910's, then I would believe you if the Woolworth Bldg was the first skyscraper to be called a soaring tower. Even if it is true, it was probably forgotten until after the Twins were errected b/c they were phrased the "Soaring Towers" a lot.

Jasonik
May 24th, 2004, 11:10 AM
You can't make this stuff up,... I mean... I mean, you just can't make it up... you can't!

TLOZ Link5
May 24th, 2004, 02:45 PM
That was incoherent beyond belief.

Gulcrapek
May 24th, 2004, 07:58 PM
..

TLOZ Link5
May 24th, 2004, 11:05 PM
TALB's soaring towers thread is a barrel of laughs:

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=d1168018f807b2d7143404be56649d89& threadid=42755


The absurdity is paralyzing.

ZippyTheChimp
May 25th, 2004, 10:23 PM
TalB writes a letter on cars, pollution, and the street grid to the Downtown Express.


If it wasn't relevant to the article, then the editor wouldn't have printed it.

Maybe the editor just has a sense of humor.

ZippyTheChimp
June 18th, 2004, 07:42 AM
Excerpt from a letter from Joy Goldberg to the LMDC:

WE are NEW YORK'S FAMILY! NEW YORK is our MOTHER. Her two breasts have been blown away by hateful cowards, our mother who 'lifts her lamp beside her golden shore,' welcoming her children to her bosom.

Jasonik
June 18th, 2004, 09:14 AM
That's rich...

flat head
June 18th, 2004, 09:24 AM
I think it's crass to punish an entire nation for what one organisation have done, that would be like someone punching you for what someone down the street has done to them!... sort of...

NoyokA
June 18th, 2004, 10:42 AM
WE are NEW YORK'S FAMILY! NEW YORK is our MOTHER. Her two breasts have been blown away by hateful cowards, our mother who 'lifts her lamp beside her golden shore,' welcoming her children to her bosom.

I knew there was a reason I loved the WTC.

MAMA. MAMA.

Jasonik
June 18th, 2004, 12:01 PM
"Sometimes a phallic symbol is just a breast."

JMGarcia
June 18th, 2004, 01:00 PM
Sometime a building is just a building. ;)

krulltime
June 18th, 2004, 01:26 PM
:? I dont get it. SSP.com is a network solution company. where do get these quotes then?

when I go to SSP.com it tells me that is about:

"For two decades, SSP has been bringing end-to-end network solutions to a wide array of Northern California enterprises." - ssp.com

NoyokA
June 18th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I dont get it. SSP.com is a network solution company. where do get these quotes then?

when I go to SSP.com it tells me that is about:

"For two decades, SSP has been bringing end-to-end network solutions to a wide array of Northern California enterprises." - ssp.com

I think you’re one of the few people who are acquainted with this forum before knowing of the forums at skyscraper page. SSP is short for skyscraper page. www.skyscraperpage.com/forum

While SSP is bigger than Wired New York it is certainly not better. I would compare us to a combination of the Onion and the NYT where SSP is more akin to the Sun or someother tabloid.

krulltime
June 18th, 2004, 01:52 PM
:o Oh I know skyscraperpage.com...I just did not know the abreviation for that as SSP.

Althogh skyscraperpage.com deals with more national news of projects I like more of a global feel to projects.

When I first saw it I didn't like it. It just didn't attract me to it for some reason. I much enjoy www.skyscrapercity.com for information around the globe. It is very critical. Although they are more prone to Asia news (since more projects are occurring there I guess)

I enjoyed wirenewyork because it deals with the city I live in.

But thanks for clarifying the confusion.

LuPeRcALiO
June 18th, 2004, 02:11 PM
SSP has the lowest possible standard of editorial integrity so I would pretty much consider anything you read there inaccurate.

ZippyTheChimp
June 18th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Actually, there are some good discussions on SSP, but the forum is huge and difficult to control, so you get a higher percentage of ridiculous comments and drawn out arguments.

I don't know how people can manage to get banned from such a freewheeling forum.

JMGarcia
June 18th, 2004, 02:36 PM
^LOL - It does boggle the mind. ;)

LuPeRcALiO
June 18th, 2004, 05:44 PM
No argument here.

TLOZ Link5
June 18th, 2004, 06:25 PM
:? I dont get it. SSP.com is a network solution company. where do get these quotes then?

when I go to SSP.com it tells me that is about:

"For two decades, SSP has been bringing end-to-end network solutions to a wide array of Northern California enterprises." - ssp.com

SSP.com is our nickname for SkyScraperPage.com, a "rival" Website. It has a web forum with a lot more members than Wired New York does, and a lot less sophistication — though there are a few bright bulbs in that drawer.

Gulcrapek
June 18th, 2004, 06:31 PM
I never considered it a rival... it's a member of the big online architecture forum "family," which includes SSP, SSC, here, and all the other independent specific city forums.

londonlawyer
June 18th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Actually, there are some good discussions on SSP, but the forum is huge and difficult to control, so you get a higher percentage of ridiculous comments and drawn out arguments.

I don't know how people can manage to get banned from such a freewheeling forum.

I was banned because they were pissed off that I did not buy into their absurd mantra that San Francisco is more expensive than NY, which ruffled the feathers of the moderator, FFlint.

My conduct, however, was exemplary. There was never an occasion in which I initiated rude comments with someone. Nevertheless, I was banned ostensibly because I responded to insults from that moronic college student, Chitown. Que sera! SSP blows (literally)!

NoyokA
June 20th, 2004, 06:01 PM
I think its important to note that TalB averages 12 posts a day at SSP. That’s astounding! He has no life.

Gulcrapek
June 20th, 2004, 06:32 PM
Things like that aren't life indicators. Most of what he posts is barely relevant, short sentences; he could be done in ten minutes.

NoyokA
June 20th, 2004, 06:52 PM
In TalB's case SSP is his pathetic life.

PHLguy
June 22nd, 2004, 11:36 AM
TalB:

Some of these pics seem to be from 2WTC b/c they're really high

NYsky:

uuh, What are you talking about, the fact that you can see the Twin Towers out of the window must mean that it's *not* from the WTC...duh

Ninjahedge
June 22nd, 2004, 12:33 PM
Excerpt from a letter from Joy Goldberg to the LMDC:

WE are NEW YORK'S FAMILY! NEW YORK is our MOTHER. Her two breasts have been blown away by hateful cowards, our mother who 'lifts her lamp beside her golden shore,' welcoming her children to her bosom.

This person needs to get out more.

If she thinks that the TT's were breasts, maybe she was watching Madonna (or is it Esther now) too much.... :P

Ninjahedge
June 22nd, 2004, 12:35 PM
No argument here.

And what do you mean by THAT??!?!?!

LuPeRcALiO
June 22nd, 2004, 09:51 PM
Ninja I was agreeing there with JMGarcia.

Ninjahedge
June 23rd, 2004, 09:07 AM
Ninja I was agreeing there with JMGarcia.

Um, Lup, I was starting an argument............. :roll:

LuPeRcALiO
June 23rd, 2004, 02:32 PM
Ah. Nothing like a good argument, but maybe not here.. why don't you post on NYCS?

Ninjahedge
June 24th, 2004, 10:22 AM
Ah. Nothing like a good argument, but maybe not here.. why don't you post on NYCS?

Lup, meet Irony.

Irony, meet Lup. :P

LuPeRcALiO
June 24th, 2004, 04:28 PM
LOL, we've met, but I wasn't being ironic--you can argue 24/7 on NYCS, (http://www.theopinion.com/newyorkcityskyline/) just try not to insult anyone.

MidnightRambler
July 8th, 2004, 02:56 PM
Possibly the greatest TalB quote of all time:


I thought the Jets were already on the West Side?

http://www.chucksconnection.com/westside/westside3.jpg


West Side Story was a play by Hammerstien, and the Jets are actually a mafia of Italian-Americans.

ZippyTheChimp
July 8th, 2004, 04:08 PM
:P

Hell's Kitchen Italians!

I had to see this in context, and I found this reply:

TalB: Please delete your idiotic, odd and inaccurate post. Roger Hammerstein had nothing to do with WSS. I think you mean Leonard Bernstein.

Roger?

There is a connection. After his parents' divorce, the teenaged Stephen Sondheim and his mother moved to Pennsylvania. Their neighbor was Oscar Hammerstein II, who was working on a play called Oklahoma!

Maybe that's what TalB meant. :roll:

PHLguy
July 9th, 2004, 06:24 PM
TalB is a f*cking moron!

TLOZ Link5
July 9th, 2004, 09:31 PM
Either way, the Jets' turf in WSS was the current site of Lincoln Center, thirty blocks uptown :wink:

JMGarcia
July 10th, 2004, 07:20 PM
Anothe TalB chestnut....

"Silverstien can always get the money he needs from Mohammed Atta, who will definately like this building b/c it's something he was expecting."

:roll:

PHLguy
July 10th, 2004, 07:57 PM
^Thats kinda sick!

NoyokA
August 14th, 2004, 11:00 AM
TalB posts a picture of the WTC before the terrorist attack...

and voila, writes:


The pic that I posted is definately before the attacks.

Well obviously.

Ninjahedge
August 17th, 2004, 09:12 AM
definately.

NoyokA
August 21st, 2004, 10:40 PM
Tal:


I believe that there is already something at the Skyscraper Museum about the Twins, so the model won't be something new.

NyGuy appropriately enough:


Moron.

Its something new because it was never there in the first place.

Tal, exhibiting in his comeback upstanding maturity:


I was referring to already having an exhibit on it to begin with megamoron.

Is that a word?

Gulcrapek
August 22nd, 2004, 03:05 PM
An acceptable compound probably, but when he uses it, it loses all meaning.

londonlawyer
September 10th, 2004, 09:52 PM
You guys really seem to dislike this TalB dude!

MidnightRambler
September 13th, 2004, 03:38 PM
He's a fundementally unlikable person.

londonlawyer
September 13th, 2004, 04:09 PM
I don't know anything about him. I guess that he's a real weenie. Then again, people from California on the SSP hated me.

Gulcrapek
September 13th, 2004, 04:12 PM
He's from Pleasantville...

ZippyTheChimp
September 13th, 2004, 06:26 PM
The movie?


:P

NoyokA
September 24th, 2004, 01:26 PM
It was inevitable, but does anyone remember exactly why TalB was banned from Wired New York?

Gulcrapek
September 24th, 2004, 02:35 PM
I think endless whining about the WTC.

TLOZ Link5
September 24th, 2004, 10:13 PM
It was inevitable, but does anyone remember exactly why TalB was banned from Wired New York?

The bigger question is, does it matter?

Oh, God, we're mean :P

ZippyTheChimp
October 6th, 2004, 09:53 AM
So as not to pick on just TalB....

A topic at SSP concerning migratory birds hitting the windows of skyscrapers quickly degenerated into silliness. A rather bizarre observation by Cool Czech:


Once again we see what happens when the masses stop going to church. In lieu of religion, they attempt to somehow add transcended significance to their lives by taking up patently junk causes...

Meanwhile, pews around the nation go empty.
Maybe we should update the old refrain:
Praise the Lord
Pass the ammunition
Shoot all the freaking birds.

Mind thy tongue Cool Czech, for birds are God's creation, and the Lord will smite thee into Cancelled Czech.

:P

Gulcrapek
November 10th, 2004, 07:51 PM
Islander:

It just topped out, which gives me a mixed feeling.


__________________
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11-08-2004 01:55 PM



LeCom
avatar thief

Registered: Apr 2003
Location:
Posts: 2720


Quote by Islander


Quote by JBinCalgary
this tower is going up at an alarming rate!




It just topped out, which gives me a mixed feeling.



Ditto. It's like swallowing the whole ice cream.


__________________
One cup of tea is not enough
One slope to ski is not enough
One drink for free is not enough
Alas

3/27/04


11-08-2004 02:54 PM



zepplin100
in training

Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 141


Quote by mpls
it looks like 7 wtc's cranes have been busy with structutal steel.





Thats what I've been thinking.

I have looked at the posted pictures very closely and I have not been able to identify any mechanism to put up all that glass. Thats why I asked.


__________________
"With the Twin Towers went a part of every metropolis, from New York to Paris to Delhi."



11-08-2004 11:59 PM



Daquan13
Superscraper

Registered: May 2003
Location: East Boston, MA. USA
Posts: 2936
I didn't think so either. That's why I said they're using other means to get those huge panels of glass to all of the floors in the tower. Like the temporary elevator.

Glad to help!!


__________________
I voted for the Republicans this year.
The Democrats left a bad taste in my mouth.

-Monica Lewinski.


-Daquan13.



11-09-2004 02:14 AM



TalB
Cityslicker

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 6524


Quote by LeCom


Quote by Islander


Quote by JBinCalgary
this tower is going up at an alarming rate!




It just topped out, which gives me a mixed feeling.



Ditto. It's like swallowing the whole ice cream.



I thought that you were happy with 7 WTC going up fast.


__________________
If you can't stand the big city then get out of it and move into the village.



11-09-2004 07:23 PM



Matty
Skyscraper

Registered: Dec 2003
Location:
Posts: 728
He means that it's fun to watch it rise, and like ice cream, if you build it too fast you get a headache...

j/k

I think he means he likes seeing it rise and wants to see it go up more.



11-10-2004 01:48 AM



TalB
Cityslicker

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NY
Posts: 6524
Actually, eating ice cream too fast would give you more of a brain freeze than a headache.

NoyokA
November 12th, 2004, 04:28 PM
You gotta love Stupid Smart people:

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?s=e4a9fd8a0924d2ca42d2eb4e8a01de5f& postid=1015789#post1015789

Kelvin, love ya baby!

Gulcrapek
November 12th, 2004, 04:44 PM
He's a structural engineer. Also from postings in the editors and diagrams section, he's far from stupid.

ZippyTheChimp
November 12th, 2004, 04:57 PM
More of Kelvin (on BofA) on page 4 of this thread. Kelvin's problem seems to be that he is both knowledgable and obstinate.

This thread is quite funny if you read it all at once.

NoyokA
November 12th, 2004, 05:08 PM
He's a structural engineer. Also from postings in the editors and diagrams section, he's far from stupid.

He's just the type of person I hate, he thinks he's all knowing. In reality he's plain ol' stubborn. If he was soo high and mighty I can tell you he would not spend his day's at SSP. That is to say, Im not so openly accepting he is a structural engineer, afterall.

NoyokA
January 10th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Talb, making a much needed point that construction can't yet begin because a tractor is in the way, you can't build a building over a tractor....

After looking at the time lapse pic, it looks as if the hole is still not done b/c the tractors are in it right now.

NewYorkYankee
January 10th, 2005, 08:27 PM
LMAO @ TalB

TLOZ Link5
January 14th, 2005, 12:25 PM
Apparently Tal is also an editorialist. From today's Daily News in the Voice of the People section:

Obsessed?

Pleasantville, N.Y.: Although I do agree that the 9/11 families should have a memorial to remember those they lost, they should not be trying to make it as if they are so special. In some countries, there are no memorials on sites where terrorist attacks occurred. I know, being a native of Israel. They will have to learn to get on with their lives sooner or later because they cannot let this affect them forever.

Tal Barzilai

NoyokA
February 11th, 2005, 10:40 PM
TALB writes:

I wouldn't be surprised if the UN left NYC and Trump took it over especially since he built the rest of the UN complex.

TLOZ Link5
February 12th, 2005, 07:06 PM
TALB writes:

I wouldn't be surprised if the UN left NYC and Trump took it over especially since he built the rest of the UN complex.

ROFLMAO

Archit_K
February 25th, 2005, 02:24 AM
Wow, this thread is hilarious. Good times.

Archit_K
February 25th, 2005, 02:26 AM
Wow, this one takes the cake.

Quote:
wait a minute....there using wood to build a 40 story tower.....um isnt that a little dangerous or is there just something that im not getting.

Archit_K
March 15th, 2005, 05:29 AM
Thread: Anything goes>Ground Zero
First Post:

Anyone heard any updates on what's happening with ground zero?

there was so much talk about it in the news - what was to come - what was being built in place of our wonderful towers that I will never forget....
I feel so lucky and privilaged to atleast have been able to visiti the towers when I was young and a few times when I was grown.... even had a nice picture of me and my wife on the windows on the world....

Such a sore subject - I miss memories and pictures - but others miss loved ones that are gone....

I still can't believe it years later.... I saved the Newsday from the day after and then the year aniversary....

well anyway....

anyone heard anything about what's happening with the rebuild and such....?

and then Second Post:

I just realized there is an entire forum dedicated to the WTC - oppps - if someone could just move this there.... :?
or
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5547
If this didin't tickle you then I don't know what else will.

JMGarcia
May 17th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Please join SSP in wishing Talb and his twin brother, who was born on the same day, a happy birthyday....

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?threadid=76336

NoyokA
May 17th, 2005, 05:31 PM
I usally just type LOL as computer jargon.

But I had to laugh out loud on that one.

Gulcrapek
June 4th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Well, now Tal's banned...

krulltime
June 5th, 2005, 02:07 PM
Well, now Tal's banned...

Is he gone from SSP for real?

I was just wandering about something.... I think that we need to have a thread with ALL the major projects (and maybe not so major aswell) on SSP.

You know like the Chicago one is a really cool one or like the Philadelphia one.

The New Yok rundown is not well done. Especially the first page. I was thinking someone like Derek2k3 will do a great job!

Or someone else here. I don't think I cant do it right now. It is too much for me right now. I have alot of school work. But maybe after July. But I still think Derek2k3 is the perfect guy. ;)

What do you thnik?

TLOZ Link5
June 6th, 2005, 01:43 PM
Well, now Tal's banned...

Are you implying that there's no longer a point to the continuation of this thread?

NYatKNIGHT
June 6th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Most forumers on SSP don't have a site like this that covers all the projects in their city, so that's the best they have.

krulltime
June 6th, 2005, 06:58 PM
Most forumers on SSP don't have a site like this that covers all the projects in their city, so that's the best they have.

Oh I know... There is nothing like Wirednewyork of course! But I think we should have a better thread in the New York section of SSP that is all. I know it will never replace this site. ;)

Maybe I am asking too much.. Hehe... :)

Gulcrapek
June 6th, 2005, 07:09 PM
TLOZ: no. There are plenty of other interesting people with diarrhea of the fingers.

ZippyTheChimp
June 7th, 2005, 11:55 AM
What was he banned for?

It can't be that he is a pest. He was that when he was (briefly) here.

Gulcrapek
June 7th, 2005, 02:14 PM
Attempted blackmailing of the administrator and subsequent threat to sue.

TonyO
June 7th, 2005, 02:34 PM
He just didn't seem like the blackmailing type, although he did threaten to sue because of a post by a moderator in the Bush Plan for WTC thread...I have no idea which one or which post.

phxmania2001
June 20th, 2005, 12:10 PM
From SSC, where he now takes "refuge":

"After seeing the movie Fever Pitch, I learned that it was easy to be a Yankees fan for nearly 80 years."

Pottebaum
June 20th, 2005, 11:15 PM
Why in the world would Talb try to sue SSP? What happened?

Gulcrapek
June 20th, 2005, 11:31 PM
He's pretty active at SSC now. I saw another quote there but forgot to quote it.

Ninjahedge
June 21st, 2005, 09:15 AM
I saw another quote there but forgot to quote it.

Can we quote you on that?

Pottebaum
June 21st, 2005, 05:19 PM
Was null banned at SSP, too? He's been posting a lot of his stuff at SSC lately; you know: "A beach in China", "China pollution", "China traffic", etc.

Jimbo Holland
July 1st, 2005, 05:01 PM
Oh I know... There is nothing like Wirednewyork of course! But I think we should have a better thread in the New York section of SSP that is all. I know it will never replace this site. ;)

Maybe I am asking too much.. Hehe... :)

no, GO TO www.skyscrapercity.com, this is the largest Forum for highrise and those thing in the world! there is also an new-york-city sub forum!

krulltime
July 1st, 2005, 05:14 PM
Why what is wrong with SSP? Did something happen there that I should be warn about?

I also like the Philadelphia thread...

But to late I already put my photos there... hehehe... now they will know me... :)

NoyokA
August 13th, 2005, 08:37 PM
Daquan has an enlightening moment:


The Luxor Hotel bears a striking resemblence to the Great Pyramid of Egypt, except the Luxor is all black. And possibly smaller.

Was it designed and built after the Great Pyramid? I'm pretty certain that it was. The Great Pyramid looks like it's been around for a long, long, long time.

Thanks!

Ninjahedge
August 15th, 2005, 08:35 AM
So lemme get this strait, the pyramids weren't a post-modernist expression in stone created in the 1970's?

:confused:

TLOZ Link5
August 16th, 2005, 12:57 PM
Please don't tell me that he was serious.

And if he was, please don't tell me that his age isn't in the single digits.

Ninjahedge
August 16th, 2005, 01:27 PM
I don't think he can tell you that.

I don't think he can count that high.... ;)

ZippyTheChimp
August 16th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Well, after the twins remark (posted earlier), we know he is 22, and I suspect, not joking.
Just yesterday, I turned 22 years old. My family had celebrated by taking me and my twin brother, who was born on the same day as I was

Ninjahedge
August 16th, 2005, 02:19 PM
Born on the same day as your twin??!?


What are the chances of that!!!!!! :confused:

krulltime
August 16th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Well, after the twins remark (posted earlier), we know he is 22, and I suspect, not joking.

Hahahaha!!! That is too funny...

TLOZ Link5
August 16th, 2005, 03:53 PM
Born on the same day as your twin??!?


What are the chances of that!!!!!! :confused:

To be fair, there could have been a chance that one was born right before midnight, and the next one right after :)

Ninjahedge
August 16th, 2005, 05:34 PM
Well, it is good that he let us all know, or we all would have thought he and his brother would have been born on different days.

And that would just mess EVERYTHING up!!!!!

Gulcrapek
September 5th, 2005, 11:03 PM
If Jan is informed of the photo theft, he will prevent it from happening again.

BrooklynRider
September 18th, 2005, 09:55 AM
It's nothing but a forum of annoying emoticons.

Ninjahedge
September 20th, 2005, 11:49 AM
It's nothing but a forum of annoying emoticons.

:confused:

pianoman11686
September 10th, 2006, 03:50 PM
I found myself laughing out loud after reading those Daquan quotes. Hilarious!

Anyhow, here are a few pieces of mindless drivel from SkyscraperCity:


i think if these buildings locate in other city such as bubai,seoul,moscow,they are good.but in fact they locate in nyc,so i have to say i am so dissapointed.
especially the new wtc 3th,i think it so ugly,and outdated,just like the design of 1970's in chicargo.

3th? Is that serious?


I have seen the designs, and none of them impress me, plus they would probably fit in better in Shanghai, HK, or Dubai than they would in NYC.

Right...just keep posting pictures from WiredNY on SSC.


It's cool how the Freedom Tower's height in feet is the same number as the year they signed the Declaration of Independence.


^ Coincidence or intentional?

If you ever feel like reading through some of the arguments there, like, for example, why we should use meters instead of feet, or why posting a picture of a plane crashing into the Freedom tower is a good idea, check out one of their World Trade Center forums.

pianoman11686
September 10th, 2006, 04:02 PM
Oh, and I forgot this one (which probably rivals Daquan in its ignorance):



http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66466720/original.jpg

Can you swim in the pool? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

lofter1
September 10th, 2006, 04:42 PM
this ^^^ is why I'm ever-faithful to good old wny ...

Ninjahedge
September 11th, 2006, 09:41 AM
You need comic relief every so often.

But if you would go there regularly, it would be more like comic indigestion....