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emmeka
November 2nd, 2003, 08:47 AM
I spend a lot of time in england and i grew up there, but it makes me nauseous when I get off a plane from new york and go through england through the small towns. Trust me there not cute or quaint or charming, most of them are like a ghetto. I grew up in a Town near sheffield called Worksop. I go back there to visit relatives all the time and I can safley say that It is hell itself. There is so much trash you cant see the pavement, you darent go out at night in case you get attaked by drunks or drug addicts, and every shop in the place closes because of burglary or no buisness or a phone company like virgin has baught it out.

Sheffield, birmingham and london are the good cities - in my opinion - Sheffield used to be the steel producing capital of the world and presently is undergoing huge projects for malls and new architecture (it really is nice architecture there) Birmingham Has the amazing Bullring - a massive shopping complex made of the greatest bits of modern architecture, plus there are lots of great high rises (mostly between 12-23 floors) and everyone knows about london.

larven
November 5th, 2003, 11:28 AM
There's a building boom in all the major cities in the UK at the moment. You mention Sheffield which I am very familiar with as I work in the city but it can't compete with what's happening in the cities of Leeds, Manchester and Birmingham.

Manchester probably has one of the most exciting projects in the UK starting on site in February next year. At 47 stories and 171m the Beetham tower will be the tallest building in the UK outside London and the tallest residential building in the UK. It will also be the first true skyscraper (500ft+) built in a British city other than London.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2003/10/28/ntower28.jpeg

emmeka
November 6th, 2003, 02:24 PM
Im not saying that things arent improving, im well aware of the new developments around the country but im sure that you know what Im talking about, Im warning others that england isnt so cosy, the kids here are worse than in america. Not that im against this or anything but Ive heared 7 year olds swearing non stop in public and the parents dont care and the graphic detail that teenage boys go into when talking is almost horrific. I saw two 7 year olds making out in public, that made me feel sick.

TLOZ Link5
November 6th, 2003, 04:00 PM
There are bad apples in every country. I've heard some very vulgar things come out of the mouths of British kids, but I've also known some extremely well-behaved ones.

emmeka
November 7th, 2003, 03:53 PM
I went to a private school (worksop college Theres a topic on this forum) where nearley everyone was totally rich, they ALL behaved like that and there the 'snobby' ones.

I admit that there are well behaved ones but Im telling you, the public in general are nasty compared with most americans, the drivers, the police and the public, in general, are so ....... Theres not even aname for it!

AJphx
November 10th, 2003, 12:42 AM
I spend a lot of time in england and i grew up there, but it makes me nauseous when I get off a plane from new york and go through england through the small towns. Trust me there not cute or quaint or charming, most of them are like a ghetto.

I'm sure they aren't all bad. Towns like that are mostly in the old industrial areas in the midlands right?

emmeka
November 10th, 2003, 04:31 PM
Dont be so shure, England suffers from the worst litter and vandalism problems in the west. I have to admit that there are a FEW places that are cute but not many, there mostly in somerset or cornwall. This dosent appeal to me though because im acity person and too much nature makes me nauseous (like a lot of stuff)

larven
November 13th, 2003, 06:54 AM
There is a certain element of English society in particular that makes me nauseous and if I had my way I'd pile them all on a big rocket and blast them into outer space never to be seen again. These are the kind of slack jawed imbeciles that exhibit the kind of behaviour you've already mentioned and much worse besides. They also seem to breed like rabbits which makes me worry what kind of people will be living in this country years from now.

However that aside and whilst I've never lived in the States I doubt that the problems highlighted here are exclusive to the UK, indeed I'm sure every country has a "pond life" element to its society.

Kris
November 13th, 2003, 07:21 AM
Obviously.

emmeka
November 13th, 2003, 01:51 PM
Shure, but Most americans that you meet couldnt be more friendly whereas most english people think that you are not worth the time of day.

darren1171
January 24th, 2007, 12:38 AM
I read your comments about England, i come from the midlands but now live in London. There must be two England's in the world, as your comments don't describe the one i live in. Yes there are problems, but certainly no worse than anywhere else in the world. How can you say England has the worst litter / vandalism in the western world??? I've been to the USA and most European countries at one time or another, and i would say its pretty much the same everywhere, just a symptom of the modern world. As for not going out after dark, well thats rubbish. Can we move away from the steriotype that we are all a bunch of misrerable and unfriendly bastards here. People are people and when youve met as many as me you'll realise they are pretty much the same wherever you go.

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 24th, 2007, 06:34 AM
What a bunch of refreshing and interesting comments. Keep them up.

I have my own (but very short) impression of England. I think that your country has always gone through upheaval but surely the problems stem from one of the following:

1. Anonymity of big city life and a movement away from centuries old traditions of family/village life and attendant responsibilities.

2. Mass immigration and consequent loss of English identity as immigrants get the monopoly on what is "cool".

3. Being in Europe, where everyone lives cheek by jowl and a few acres is a lot of property.

4. Traditions of tolerance and liberalism (instead of a police state).

5. The emergence of the welfare state and the consequence - having a husband (and therefore a traditional family unit) becomes unnecessary.

These are just some of my thoughts as to why being English in England isn't always so good.

Luca
January 24th, 2007, 07:01 AM
Shure, but Most americans that you meet couldnt be more friendly whereas most english people think that you are not worth the time of day.

My 13-year experience of living in Britain is that there is a tremendous polarization between the majority, which is actually quite incredibly polite (the sort of people who apologize if YOU bump into THEM) and a minority of yobs/chavs (not necessarily poor) that are absolutely appalling.

In my neighborhood, (Chiswick) you find both but most kids are exquisitely polite and I've been even politely told off for letting my children say "Oh my God!" instead of "Oh goddness!" :rolleyes: , just to give you an idea. The remaining 5% are lippy as all hell and have come close to getting a sharp, un-British smack from me on several occasions.

I ahve found Americans, if I may be allowed a geneneralization, to be on the whole quite polite and helpful; especially if they work for tips. I think compared to the US (never mind the Midwest) most places will seem a bit rude.

GreenwichSE10
January 24th, 2007, 10:32 AM
what a ridiculous fool this tenenbaum characteris..you need to get out and get laid son:D

londonlawyer
January 24th, 2007, 02:51 PM
England is a spectacular country in my opinion, and London is the best city in the world along with NY and Paris.

ZippyTheChimp
January 24th, 2007, 03:17 PM
GreenwichSE10: Personal attacks are not permitted here.

Kitty-london
January 24th, 2007, 03:49 PM
A huge amount of generalizations on this topic blimey! Like anywhere there are lovely and lets say not so lovely parts, but even the latter are all what makes it. Must have some of the most beautiful and quaint villages anywhere! Each to thier own i suppose x

londonlawyer
January 24th, 2007, 04:24 PM
A huge amount of generalizations on this topic blimey! Like anywhere there are lovely and lets say not so lovely parts, but even the latter are all what makes it. Must have some of the most beautiful and quaint villages anywhere! Each to thier own i suppose x

Good point.

P.S.: You are beautiful. How old are you, and where in England do you live?

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 24th, 2007, 04:55 PM
what a ridiculous fool this tenenbaum characteris..you need to get out and get laid son:D

Mom I told you not to post here!!

Sir, "characteris" is the closest to the best Latin I have seen on these boards. Congratulations!

Kitty-london
January 24th, 2007, 05:24 PM
Why thankyou! Just turned 21 and celebrated it in NYC hence the love of this board!

ZippyTheChimp
January 24th, 2007, 05:28 PM
GT, that last post wasn't necessary. I took care of the problem.

Luca
January 25th, 2007, 02:49 AM
Mom I told you not to post here!!

Sir, "characteris" is the closest to the best Latin I have seen on these boards. Congratulations!

nil satis nisi eximius

darren1171
January 25th, 2007, 10:09 AM
Gregory, you have some very good points, and i would say i agree with all of them especially the first one, but don't you think some of these statements (1,2 and 3) apply to most other countries too? Take Holland for example, 50% of Amsterdams population are immigrants and last year 40,000 Dutch emmegrated (many people think there is a direct link between the two), the highest number in that countrys history in a single year.
on comment 2 - I would have to say that i think English identity is probably stronger now than at any time over the past 20 years. A few years ago most people wold refer to themselves as 'British', now most people would say English.The flag of St.George now seems to be replacing the Union flag (which i hardly see these days), and most of us have a pretty good knowlege of our history, both good and bad.
yes the welfare state needs to be revamped, but last october i went to India where there is no welfare state at all. Its not nice seeming shanty townes and people dying on the streets as they cant afford medical care.
Whatever our faults, i still think that england is a great place to live (however much Blair tries to ruin the country), and i wouldn't want to live anywhere else - as for London, i love it. Yes New York is great, but i prefer it here.

Kitty-london
January 25th, 2007, 10:11 AM
Good points. I dont consider myself "British" I always say "English" as do a lot of young people. You must admit thought, tony does try extremely hard to spoil it all!

londonlawyer
January 25th, 2007, 10:41 AM
Not only is England a great place, but the English are among the few people in the world (coupled with a few other former colonies) that don't despise Americans. Therefore, it is a bit odd for any American to dislike the English.

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 25th, 2007, 10:42 AM
Gregory, you have some very good points, and i would say i agree with all of them especially the first one, but don't you think some of these statements (1,2 and 3) apply to most other countries too? Take Holland for example, 50% of Amsterdams population are immigrants and last year 40,000 Dutch emmegrated (many people think there is a direct link between the two), the highest number in that countrys history in a single year.
on comment 2 - I would have to say that i think English identity is probably stronger now than at any time over the past 20 years. A few years ago most people wold refer to themselves as 'British', now most people would say English.The flag of St.George now seems to be replacing the Union flag (which i hardly see these days), and most of us have a pretty good knowlege of our history, both good and bad.
yes the welfare state needs to be revamped, but last october i went to India where there is no welfare state at all. Its not nice seeming shanty townes and people dying on the streets as they cant afford medical care.
Whatever our faults, i still think that england is a great place to live (however much Blair tries to ruin the country), and i wouldn't want to live anywhere else - as for London, i love it. Yes New York is great, but i prefer it here.

Good points.

I agree about shanty towns not being a great thing. India does suffer from a crippling social structure. I was more referring to the welfare state for single mothers. But actually when you think about it, orphanages are not a good thing either. It's probably better to have the children with their mother and have the state pay the mother some money.

You prefer London and that's great. Living in a liberal society means that you have that choice, something which we pretty much all take for granted but which wasn't always something we had.

What interests me is how immigrants seem to want to have the monopoly on what is "cool". Perhaps it is a way of overcoming what they see to be deficiencies and its a way of making up for it (wearing the bling, dressing differently, talking their native tongue when they could speak English if they wanted to etc).

It is going to be interesting to see what happens in the next 50 years with respect to immigration in Europe. History to date hasn't been kind to immigrants (just look at the 20th century and its wars).

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 27th, 2007, 12:53 AM
From the Daily Mail today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431775&in_page_id=1770

36 reasons to say goodbye to Britain - and one to say bonjour to fabulous France

BY IAN SPARKS

As you sit in stationary traffic and pouring rain, worrying about the mortgage and whether you'll ever get a date for treatment on that ingrowing toenail, you may not be totally surprised by the news. In the league table of the best countries to live, Britain is 37th.
And as if that wasn't wounding enough, the country judged to offer the finest quality of life in the world is none other than our closest, but not always friendliest neighbour, France.
The list of 191 countries was compiled by the U.S. travel magazine International Living using nine criteria - cost of living, culture and leisure, economy, environment, freedom, health, infrastructure, safety, and climate.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/01_wk4/lifeleaguegraph_468x250.jpg
Britain is beaten by such unlikely idylls as Bulgaria, Panama, the Czech Republic and Slovenia. We even had to share our humble 37th position with Ecuador, Lithuania, Iceland, Greece and Cyprus.
We scored poorly on weather, cost of living, transport infrastructure and health service, but highly on economy and social freedoms.
France raced ahead on the strength of its high-speed TGV trains, ample supply of hospital beds, culture, ski resorts, beaches, climate and relatively low cost of living.
Reports suggest the ratings are reflected in emigration, with hordes of Britons heading across the Channel to live.
A recent survey by Bordeaux University of 2,750 Britons planning to move to France found the aim of many was to recapture the gentler lifestyle, sense of community, old-fashioned values and village markets, that typified Britain in the 1950s.
Another attraction is affordable homes - a three-bedroom property with swimming pool and land in the expat haven of the Dordogne costs between 100,000 and 250,000.
Italy also fared well, finishing 8th with a perfect 100 for culture, and also scoring highly on climate, cost of living and transport.
Britain was beaten by Uruguay, Hungary and Slovakia because of their lower cost of living and better weather.
Countries with a similar climate, like Holland, Denmark, Luxembourg and Germany, beat us on health service and infrastructure.
Laura Sheridan, of International Living, said: "France has a good climate, unspoiled countryside, great health care and arguably the most romantic capital in the world.
"Britain is undoubtedly an economic powerhouse with a strong and identifiable culture, but it is also expensive, its transport lets it down - and it rains a lot."

Empire State
January 27th, 2007, 03:34 PM
There is a certain element of English society in particular that makes me nauseous and if I had my way I'd pile them all on a big rocket and blast them into outer space never to be seen again. These are the kind of slack jawed imbeciles that exhibit the kind of behaviour you've already mentioned and much worse besides. They also seem to breed like rabbits which makes me worry what kind of people will be living in this country years from now.

However that aside and whilst I've never lived in the States I doubt that the problems highlighted here are exclusive to the UK, indeed I'm sure every country has a "pond life" element to its society.

Not to sound communist, But I think it's Britians "capitalist" culture. Often times, the UK and US go hand in hand in terms of massive social problems. I've heard that the European continent has less of thsi sort of behavior.

Fabrizio
January 27th, 2007, 04:14 PM
Gregory:

But England IS doing better. At least it is now tied with Ecuador.

They say that having the worlds biggest subway system has pushed it up a few notches.

nick-taylor
January 28th, 2007, 06:55 AM
From the Daily Mail today

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=431775&in_page_id=1770
36 reasons to say goodbye to Britain - and one to say bonjour to fabulous France

BY IAN SPARKS

As you sit in stationary traffic and pouring rain, worrying about the mortgage and whether you'll ever get a date for treatment on that ingrowing toenail, you may not be totally surprised by the news. In the league table of the best countries to live, Britain is 37th.
And as if that wasn't wounding enough, the country judged to offer the finest quality of life in the world is none other than our closest, but not always friendliest neighbour, France.
The list of 191 countries was compiled by the U.S. travel magazine International Living using nine criteria - cost of living, culture and leisure, economy, environment, freedom, health, infrastructure, safety, and climate.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/01_wk4/lifeleaguegraph_468x250.jpg
Britain is beaten by such unlikely idylls as Bulgaria, Panama, the Czech Republic and Slovenia. We even had to share our humble 37th position with Ecuador, Lithuania, Iceland, Greece and Cyprus.
We scored poorly on weather, cost of living, transport infrastructure and health service, but highly on economy and social freedoms.
France raced ahead on the strength of its high-speed TGV trains, ample supply of hospital beds, culture, ski resorts, beaches, climate and relatively low cost of living.
Reports suggest the ratings are reflected in emigration, with hordes of Britons heading across the Channel to live.
A recent survey by Bordeaux University of 2,750 Britons planning to move to France found the aim of many was to recapture the gentler lifestyle, sense of community, old-fashioned values and village markets, that typified Britain in the 1950s.
Another attraction is affordable homes - a three-bedroom property with swimming pool and land in the expat haven of the Dordogne costs between 100,000 and 250,000.
Italy also fared well, finishing 8th with a perfect 100 for culture, and also scoring highly on climate, cost of living and transport.
Britain was beaten by Uruguay, Hungary and Slovakia because of their lower cost of living and better weather.
Countries with a similar climate, like Holland, Denmark, Luxembourg and Germany, beat us on health service and infrastructure.
Laura Sheridan, of International Living, said: "France has a good climate, unspoiled countryside, great health care and arguably the most romantic capital in the world.
"Britain is undoubtedly an economic powerhouse with a strong and identifiable culture, but it is also expensive, its transport lets it down - and it rains a lot."Interesting, but flawed survey, the US ahead of any Scandinavian country is usually the best indicator.

Do you have the methodology my Maesrk-resident friend? And reading the Daily Mail....how White-British! You shall soon be within the fold, just give that human trafficker the money....

Fabrizio
January 28th, 2007, 07:42 AM
Then lets do it this way Nick:

YOU show us a country survey where the UK "quality of life" gets a decent rating.

Thank you. We are waiting.

----


This one is interesting. My gosh you can understand why Brits are streaming across the border

http://www.internationalliving.com/qol06

http://www.il-ireland.com:80/il/qofl06/index.php

From the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 28th, 2007, 07:48 AM
Of course the survey is flawed Nick. That's why it was published in the Daily Mail.

Point us mere media consumers to a real survey please. One with results that suit your tastes.

We all desperately need your help.

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 28th, 2007, 07:49 AM
Then lets do it this way Nick:

YOU show us a country survey where the UK "quality of life" gets a decent rating.

Thank you. We are waiting.

----


This one is interesting. My gosh you can understand why Brits are streaming across the border

http://www.internationalliving.com/qol06

http://www.il-ireland.com:80/il/qofl06/index.php

From the Economist:

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4020523.stm

Yes, but would you live there. :confused: :)

Fabrizio
January 28th, 2007, 08:12 AM
This one is flawed...Italy is only ONE spot ahead of the UK. Oh the shame of it:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0778562.html

But still... I dont know HOW we do it. No worlds biggest subway, no worlds biggest OBSERVATION wheel, no worlds biggest stadium, no cucumber buildings (we havent built anything since like around 1985) everyone is either on welfare, a store clerk, or designing shoes...and yet in these surveys, we continualy beat their a$$.

Go figure.

--

nick-taylor
January 28th, 2007, 10:33 AM
All surveys will be flawed because they originate from a biased perspective. Japan /25th? It has the most efficient health system on the planet, one of the largest, most wealthiest and equal economies around, an amazing fusion of historic and futuristic culture, the perfect blend of being one of the most densest urban expanses and vast forests, high levels of freedom, crime is practically nil, the climate is diverse and the infrastructure is the finest on the planet.

Same for the Economist, an excellent publication but a flawed index which ranks divorce rates and church attendance rates as equal to health or political freedoms. Italy ranks higher than Japan because of what, higher church attendances? I suspect if church attendances were replaced by crime levels, you'd see a dramatic change (say number of homicides) in rankings and something that would be a bit more closer to being representative of how 'good' a society is.

You see, the intelligent and forward thinking individual would actually be sceptical of any list until the methodology has been observed. Its only when you look at the methodology, that you begin to understand the poor rationale behind them.

Most of the time, the variables are dubious and probably based on perception rather than figures or rationale. For example, how do you measure climate? Some people prefer winter climates with snow, others prefer climates that offer lush green landscapes, others beaches, and others arid wastelands? Is an equatorial climate better than a Mediterranean because of lower rates of rainfall or hours of sunshine? Is there any benefit from having a warm climate when the majority of the world's conflicts are concentrated on the close latitudes of the Equator? I'd love to see the formula for working that out (well if there is one!).

And good for Italy, the only factor of the three that it has Britain 'beat' on is life expectancy, on economy and education Britain has Italy 'beat' on. Yet I still don't think that is representative of what a society should be solely measured on, if it could be ever truly measured.



What this is illustrative of though, is that you lack that ability and vindicates by ego once again :D

Fabrizio
January 28th, 2007, 11:10 AM
"You see, the intelligent and forward thinking individual would actually be sceptical of any list..."

Bunch of dummies at the Economist... not intelligent, not forward looking.

About the Economist Intelligence Unit:

http://www.eiu.com/site_info.asp?info_name=about_eiu&entry1=about_eiuNav&page=noads

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist_Intelligence_Unit

So now.. uh ... in that light, lets look at their survey again:

http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/QUALITY_OF_LIFE.pdf

--

nick-taylor
January 28th, 2007, 11:34 AM
"You see, the intelligent and forward thinking individual would actually be sceptical of any list..."

Bunch of dummies at the Economist... not intelligent, not forward looking.The Economist isn't an organisation composed by dummies, in fact the vast majority of their articles are pretty damn excellent, I'm even subscribed to The Economist. Yet like with all things in life, there are the occasional rotten eggs, this index is one such rotten egg in that its clearly biased towards a church going, white, capitalist-centric society.

Fabrizio
January 28th, 2007, 11:40 AM
The Economist isn't an organisation composed by dummies, in fact the vast majority of their articles are pretty damn excellent, I'm even subscribed to The Economist. Yet like with all things in life, there are the occasional rotten eggs, this index is one such rotten egg in that its clearly biased towards a church going, white, capitalist-centric society.

"a ...white, capitalist-centric society"

Oh...so THATS why Italy got such a high rating.

pianoman11686
January 30th, 2007, 12:12 AM
A couple of things that I've noticed in this back-and-forth, Nick:

You say that surveys shouldn't be accepted at face value because of their (possibly insufficient) methodology. You cite Japan as an example. Yet, you make an even more crucial mistake: you leave out a bunch of factors altogether. A quote from a referential (http://www.jref.com/society/japan_world_ranking.shtml) (not survey) guide on Japan:


Apart for its high life expectancy, relatively good health, low crime rate, and reasonable GDP per capita (far from exceptional though), Japan ranks well behind Western countries in all other fields, from freedom, democracy and gender issues, to quality of accommodation, life satisfaction and happiness.
So, based on these numbers, can Japan be considered a good place to live from the point of view of quality of life ? Worldwide, yes, but comparing to almost any Western countries certainly not.

These are complaints I've heard many times before. Suicide rates are particularly high in Japan, as is the rate of smoking. Congestion and overpopulation in many urban areas lends itself to other problems, such as quality of accommodation.

And as for your climate comment: that too may influence Japan, which is susceptible to many tropical storms, and earthquakes (although that's technically geological). Furthermore, it's been shown in many studies that temperate climates do tend to correlate with more productive societies, which in turn have higher quality of life. Hot and humid climates, in addition to having real, negative physical and psychological impacts on people, also can affect things such as agriculture. So, yes: climate is a measure that should be included in the methodology, and it's not about preferences.

ablarc
January 30th, 2007, 04:02 AM
Hot and humid climates, in addition to having real, negative physical and psychological impacts on people, also can affect things such as agriculture.
I guess we're about to see an increase in these.

nick-taylor
January 30th, 2007, 05:56 AM
A couple of things that I've noticed in this back-and-forth, Nick:

You say that surveys shouldn't be accepted at face value because of their (possibly insufficient) methodology. You cite Japan as an example. Yet, you make an even more crucial mistake: you leave out a bunch of factors altogether. A quote from a referential (http://www.jref.com/society/japan_world_ranking.shtml) (not survey) guide on Japan:

These are complaints I've heard many times before. Suicide rates are particularly high in Japan, as is the rate of smoking. Congestion and overpopulation in many urban areas lends itself to other problems, such as quality of accommodation.

And as for your climate comment: that too may influence Japan, which is susceptible to many tropical storms, and earthquakes (although that's technically geological). Furthermore, it's been shown in many studies that temperate climates do tend to correlate with more productive societies, which in turn have higher quality of life. Hot and humid climates, in addition to having real, negative physical and psychological impacts on people, also can affect things such as agriculture. So, yes: climate is a measure that should be included in the methodology, and it's not about preferences.I should point out that I wasn't creating my own methodology (such a methodology would be even far more encompassing, unfortunately the primary and secondary data collection would be a vast job, and then there are areas that you can't put a figure on; it would end up still being a subjective and biased approach), yet I would still argue that even the approach of that collection of bits of information is still shallow. Japan might not look great from a few statistics thrown together, but a more in-depth analysis would highlight a very efficient and energetic society

Take health - there are literally hundreds of possible approaches to look at - a formula could be created that factors in number of hospital beds per population, the infant mortality rate, life expectancy, STD's, awareness of health-limitating issues, cause of death, average response times by ambulances, survival rate in hospital, number of specialist doctors and surgeons per population, access to medical treatment, etc.... Combine all those and you would get an image closer to the truth.

The problem is however that the vast amounts of data that need to be collected, calculated and contrasted on an international level is nothing short of going into space. There simply isn't the commercial requirement to go ahead with such a study which will unfortunately also be out of date as soon as its published. The result is that we end up with simple variable approaches.

If relying upon other sources, then there has to be a comparison with different organisations that might carry a different methodology, for instance I can think of around 5 different indexes of freedom.

Your points are also valid on suicide, smoking and over-population, but while Japan is certainly congested, it has used this to its advantage. You only have to look at the vast areas of wilderness the envelop the coastal cities, and let us not forget that Japanese trains are without any doubt the best in the world, for efficiency, frequency, speed and depth. This all highlights the problem that there are simply too many factors to look at.

Your theories on climate do correlate with my own, but I suspect that any study doesn't approach the issue in that direction, more I suspect on average annual precipitation and hours of sunlight. The big problem is how do you measure it all? The combined time of earthquakes, the wavelength and heights of a tsunami, the emissions from a volcano. And thats just natural disasters, you could look into the distribution of precipitation, the percentage of arid area, etc.... its a vast problem that will often be viewed from an easy foregone conclusion: preferences. People don't like rain, yet at the same time we need it.




Ablarc - Not necessarily, climate change could effectively plunge Britain and Western Europe into an ice age or tundra-like existence. The reason: the Gulf Stream which stops London resembling Moscow would be corrupted by melted icecap water from the Arctic. Remember, climate change isn't about things just getting hotter, its about the climate becoming more erratic making it harder for us to adapt.

ablarc
January 30th, 2007, 07:56 AM
...climate change could effectively plunge Britain and Western Europe into an ice age or tundra-like existence. The reason: the Gulf Stream which stops London resembling Moscow would be corrupted by melted icecap water from the Arctic. Remember, climate change isn't about things just getting hotter, its about the climate becoming more erratic making it harder for us to adapt.
Ice age in Britain? Tundra? On top of everything else? ... ;)

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 30th, 2007, 08:20 AM
Some people are taking desperate measures to leave the UK.

Link with Video here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-body29jan29,0,24089.story?track=mostviewed-homepage
Body found in wheel well of jet at LAX

A British Airways pilot checking a plane at LAX before a trip to London discovers a youth who may have been a South African national.
By Peter Y. Hong and Jennifer Oldham, Times Staff Writers
January 29, 2007

A youth was found dead Sunday in the wheel well of a British Airways jet at Los Angeles International Airport, authorities said.

A British Airways pilot found the body during a routine preflight check and notified airport officials about 4:30 p.m. The 747-400 had arrived from London Heathrow Airport at 3:15 p.m. and was to depart for a return flight at 5:20 p.m.

Authorities had not identified the victim as of late Sunday, saying only that he was a young black male. A source familiar with the investigation said the youth believed to be 17 or 18 carried documents identifying himself as a South African national born in 1989.

Law enforcement and aviation officials at the scene had not determined whether he got into the aircraft in London or its previous departure point of Hong Kong.

"The investigation needs to run its course to determine where and how the victim obtained access to the aircraft before it landed at LAX Sunday afternoon," said Paul A. Haney, deputy executive director of airports and security for Los Angeles World Airports.

There have been several incidents in recent years of people climbing into airplane wheel wells usually ending in death, authorities said.

A body was found Jan. 12 in a plane that landed in Atlanta. The man, who carried no identification, was believed to have entered the compartment when the plane left Dakar, Senegal, for the nine-hour flight to Atlanta.

Extreme cold and a lack of oxygen in the wheel wells make the odds of survival slim. Stowaways also have fallen from the wheel wells or been crushed by the landing gear.

But there have been a few cases of stowaways surviving. In 2000, a man survived a flight from Papeete, French Polynesia, to Los Angeles. His core body temperature when he was found at LAX was 79 degrees, well below what is normally fatal. A Cuban man made it alive to Montreal in the wheel well of a plane in 2002. And in 1999, an 18-year-old Senegalese man survived a five-hour flight to France, but died after he stowed away on another flight later that year.

More typical are cases like Sunday's discovery of the body at LAX. Authorities are uncertain, however, of the survival rate of wheel-well stowaways, because bodies that fall out of flying aircraft may not be recovered. Stowaways unable to secure themselves can fall more than 1,000 feet when landing gear doors open. Experts believe that many of those who fall out are already dead or unconscious.

In 2005, the severed leg of a stowaway landed in a suburban New York backyard near John F. Kennedy Airport. A second leg was later found in the wheel well of a plane from South Africa that had stopped in Senegal.

Little is known about stowaways' motivations because so few survive. Many hail from impoverished nations and board planes bound for North America or Europe, presumably seeking better lives.

That was the case of two 14-year-old boys whose bodies were found in the wheel well of a plane in Brussels after a flight from their West African home country of Guinea. In that case, a letter was found in one of the boys' pockets. Signed by both boys, it said they wished to bring attention to the suffering of children in Africa. Written in French, the letter explained: "If you see that we have sacrificed and risked our lives, it is because there is too much suffering in Africa and we need you to struggle against poverty and put an end to war in Africa. Nevertheless, we want to study and we ask you to help us in Africa to study to be like you."

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2007, 08:57 AM
Despite variables...bias... whatever ...it is interesting is that all of these surveys taken together, offer more or less the same view: that the quality of life in the UK is below par... lower than many other European countries ... lower than the US.

What is interesing about the Economist survey in particular, is that this is one of the most respected publications in the world. It is a publication that has the last word. And according to them, as far as quality of life goes, the Uk ranks a sorry 29th... well below the US and the other European nations.

londonlawyer
January 30th, 2007, 04:17 PM
The Economist isn't an organisation composed by dummies, in fact the vast majority of their articles are pretty damn excellent, I'm even subscribed to The Economist. Yet like with all things in life, there are the occasional rotten eggs, this index is one such rotten egg in that its clearly biased towards a church going, white, capitalist-centric society.

Although I read the Economist for the editorials and book reviews/"culture" section, the rest of it is extremely superficial. Anyone who reads The NY Times or the FT daily will find 99% of the Economist's stories to be lacking in depth.

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2007, 04:26 PM
Well... at least they got the survey right.

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 30th, 2007, 04:27 PM
Although I read the Economist for the editorials and book reviews/"culture" section, the rest of it is extremely superficial. Anyone who reads The NY Times or the FT daily will find 99% of the Economist's stories to be lacking in depth.

Presidential briefings often lack depth too. Ever heard of the benefit of summarizing information?

If you don't want a summary then you are wasting your time with most mass media - you need to go to the source and read the 300 page thick UN publications.

Sounds like you have the time to do this.

pianoman11686
January 30th, 2007, 04:40 PM
Nick: you keep repeating the same things over and over again about the surveys. You seem convinced you know better. If this is true, then I have a question for you: how do you know (for a fact) that Japan (or Britain) is ranked too low, as opposed to too high? Maybe they're given credit for certain things, due to certain biases, that other countries don't have. You keep emphasizing Japan's health and transportation infrastructure. But again, I'll respond by saying that Japanese citizens face major issues in both areas. And as far as congestion is concerned, you can't be serious about those "vast areas of wilderness", can you? Have you ever seen an overhead of Tokyo? Not an acre of green to be found, anywhere. And have you ever seen footage of just how crowded the trains are? Makes New York look like a no-man's land.

All I'm saying is, don't assume you know better. Methodologies may be biased, but for you to claim they're always biased one-way, versus another, is rather presumptuous, in my opinion.

Fabrizio
January 30th, 2007, 04:56 PM
Girls, let me mention here that I'm leaving tomorrow morning for vacation and will be back in about 6 weeks.

Gregory: I am expecting you to hold the fort.

For Zippy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy519z4eBA&mode=related&search=

(and of course with my luck I'll have a window seat next to someone like her....)

chow 4 now.


---

londonlawyer
January 30th, 2007, 05:29 PM
Girls, let me mention here that I'm leaving tomorrow morning for vacation and will be back in about 6 weeks.---

Have fun, amico.

londonlawyer
January 30th, 2007, 05:30 PM
Presidential briefings often lack depth too. Ever heard of the benefit of summarizing information?

If you don't want a summary then you are wasting your time with most mass media - you need to go to the source and read the 300 page thick UN publications.

Sounds like you have the time to do this.

I work 11 to 12 hours every day, and yet, I find time to read the NY Times daily. I don't need a fluff summary.

Gregory Tenenbaum
January 31st, 2007, 04:16 PM
NYTimes is serious reading.....for the mainstream press.

Otherwise, bla bla bla....

ENOUGH!

OmegaNYC
January 31st, 2007, 04:45 PM
Not better than the NY Daily News!

ZippyTheChimp
February 16th, 2007, 09:45 AM
Girls, let me mention here that I'm leaving tomorrow morning for vacation and will be back in about 6 weeks.

For Zippy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy519z4eBA&mode=related&search=

(and of course with my luck I'll have a window seat next to someone like her....)

chow 4 now.---In-flight meals are fun.

Denver looks like the Prodigal Partridge Son.

Is that a preview of Fabrizio's vacation-wear?

Meerkat
April 23rd, 2007, 10:54 PM
England's a great place - i wouldn't live here if it wasn't:cool:

Punzie
April 24th, 2007, 07:43 AM
Man cuts off penis in London restauranthttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gif

London, United Kingdomhttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gifhttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gifhttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gifhttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gif
24 April 2007

A man stormed into a London restaurant and hacked off his own penis in front of horrifed diners, an Italian restaurant said on Tuesday.

The man charged into a branch of a pizza and pasta chain Zizzi in a tourist area of central London on Sunday.

"This guy came running in then charged into the kitchen, got a massive knife and started waving it about," diner Stuart McMahon told the Sun newspaper.

"Everyone was screaming and running out as he jumped on a table, dropped his trousers and popped his penis out.

"Then he cut it off. I couldn't believe it."

Police said a man aged 30 to 40 was injured through self-inflicted wounds. He was taken to a south London hospital.

Zizzi said the knife-wielder was thought to have no connection to the restaurant.

Staff stopped him entering one kitchen, then he ran into a second kitchen area, the chain said in a statement.

"The man then picked up a kitchen knife and slashed himself across the wrist and groin areas before running back into the restaurant, where he continued to stab himself.

"This happened in a matter of seconds and was obviously extremely frightening and distressing for the many customers and staff in the restaurant at the time.

"The police arrived in a matter of minutes and took the man away.

"Apart from the man, we understand that no one else suffered any physical injuries."

The man was described as being in a stable condition in hospital Tuesday. -- AFP

http://banner.coza.com/transpix.gif
http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/other_news/&articleid=305682

Luca
April 24th, 2007, 09:14 AM
Just to prove to Fabrizio, in his Brit-baiter incarnation, that surveys/rankings ARE stupid, the World's top 50 Restaurants list came out and Britain has more than any country including France and more than Italy...riiiiight :rolleyes:

BTW, while plenty of Brits buy holdiay properties in Chaintishire, the brain drain from italy to Britain is absolutely scary. Italy has a good quality of life if you're one of the parasites or independently wealthy. If you actually work for a living it's got serious shortcomings.

Punzie
April 24th, 2007, 10:02 AM
Man cuts off penis in London restauranthttp://banner.coza.com/transpix.gif

It was an Italian restaurant.;):D

Fabrizio
April 24th, 2007, 02:16 PM
There's no explaination as to WHY he cut off his zizzi... or why he chose that particular place?

Punzie
April 24th, 2007, 02:38 PM
His penis is on ebay, if that's any clue.

Luca
April 25th, 2007, 02:29 AM
Jeez...who would buy that???

Wait, don't answer!!!!

Must've been pretty nasty for the bystanders....

It's a chain of kiddie-friendly Pasta/Pizza restaurants (not v. good but not v. bad either).

Punzie
April 25th, 2007, 04:19 AM
The man was described as being in a stable condition in hospital Tuesday. -- AFP

If that's what the man is like when he's in stable condition, what is he like when he is unstable?:eek:

OmegaNYC
April 25th, 2007, 09:15 AM
A man cut his own tool off in front of people? :eek:

WHY!?

Ninjahedge
April 25th, 2007, 09:21 AM
A man cut his own tool off in front of people? :eek:

WHY!?

Because he would have been fired from his job if he let a surgeon do it?

tilly
April 25th, 2007, 11:23 AM
helo I have just joined this forum mainly to voice my opinion on the comments made about Britain, I have traveld to many places in the world one of them being NYC I can honestly say the americans were the most unfriendly hostile, arrogant race I have ever had the misfortune to meet, not to mention rude. I loved New York but not the people which is a shame as I will never go again, We were picked up from JKF by limo the limo guy explained about the good and bad places in NY he also told us not to head out of town after dark, so how can you make britain out to be a bad place to live when your home isnt much better. Its a pity president Bush dosent think the same as you he might leave us alone and fight your own battles

MidtownGuy
April 25th, 2007, 11:44 AM
I'm sorry for your bad experience, but New Yorkers are no more rude or unfriendly than people anywwhere else. Maybe you were treated rudely because you yourself were being arrogant. New Yorkers hate that, and will pick up on it very quickly. They don't take too kindly to haughty Europeans coming over and complaining about the food, the service, blah, blah blah. Not any more than when you guys are expected to be hospitable to "ugly Americans" as they are often called. I go to Europe about twice a year, and I have not found Europeans in general to be any more friendly than New Yorkers. Some are as rude and arrogant as hell. People are people. Some good, some bad.
The limo driver told you not to "head out of town after dark"? Do you mean go out after dark? Well that's just rubbish.
And as for Bush, I hate his guts, but that doesn't make Tony Blair a saint for peace, now does it? Seems he joined in the bloodbath quite willingly. You know, sexed-up intelligence and all.;)
I am going to say this: you can not even compare the level of service in Europe to New York. At the expensive top end, of course you will get good service anywhere. But in New York, service is across the board much better. In restaurants and retail shops you will be given more attention, often greeted by the staff as soon as you enter. The service is more efficient.
I see you are located in Spain. I will be traveling all around Spain in July, and I'll be glad to share my experiences with you. I'm sure I will meet people I want to hug, and others I want to smack. It's just the way it goes. I'll try to be more fair in my assessment of your people than you have been of New Yorkers.

Ninjahedge
April 25th, 2007, 12:04 PM
I have just joined this forum mainly to voice my opinion on the comments made about Britain, I have traveld to many places in the world one of them being NYC I can honestly say the americans were...

Odd that you join the forum to say something about Britain, in the thread called Britain, but you go on and complain about NYC the entire post.


One word of advice. If you come onto a board, new, and say you are going to say something. It is usually a good idea that you say what you said you were going to and not spend the entire time condemning the city that is the home of the forum itself.

Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when you walk into a room and say "I would like to talk about the weather" but instead you insult the decorations or the landscaping outside it is usually not taken as well as a simple "Hello". ;)

OmegaNYC
April 25th, 2007, 12:19 PM
I didn't know that Americans are a race. I always thought "American" was a nationality.

Ninjahedge
April 25th, 2007, 01:31 PM
I didn't know that Americans are a race. I always thought "American" was a nationality.

Maybe she is talking about the "Amazing" race and got it all mixed up....

tilly
April 25th, 2007, 03:06 PM
Its not nice when your own country is slagged off is it? I suggest if britain is so nauseous do us a favour stay where you are then everyone is happy:p

ZippyTheChimp
April 25th, 2007, 03:18 PM
You seem to be the one that's hostile and arrogant.

Are all Spaniards like you?

tilly
April 25th, 2007, 03:28 PM
I am sorry if you thought i was getting at Native New Yorkers. There seemed to be more costa ricans than Americans every where we went even at the top of the Empire State Building we were mithered by beggers begging for cig's and money, I am not rude nor arragant but I do draw the line at giving my hard earned cash away as for the cig's I dont even smoke.
The hotel was very comfortable again all mixed nationalities employed there. I know a lot of people who have travelled to New York many times, who have experienced the same hostility against us british. I have never done anyone any harm just really surprised as to how we were treated. I now live in Spain where the Spanish come across as arogant which they are to a degree, if you dont speak Spanish that is, I suppose that's life you cant expect every country to except you.

tilly
April 25th, 2007, 03:29 PM
I am not Spanish I am British and proud of it like you are proud of your nationality

Schadenfrau
April 25th, 2007, 03:33 PM
Wow, you speak English on a regular basis?

Ninjahedge
April 25th, 2007, 03:47 PM
Zing!

Shade, you aren't costa rican are you? ;)

Punzie
April 26th, 2007, 06:42 AM
. . . every where we went even at the top of the Empire State Building we were mithered by beggers begging for cig's and money. . .
Beggars mithering people on the top of the Empire State Building...
Is this a new problem I don't know about?

ablarc
April 26th, 2007, 06:56 AM
Beggars mithering people on the top of the Empire State Building...
Is this a new problem I don't know about?
The first order of business for their mithering is to recover the cost of admission.

(They have to mither hard and fast just to break even.)

ZippyTheChimp
April 26th, 2007, 07:14 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how you can tell a Costa Rican from a Nicaraguan.

MidtownGuy
April 26th, 2007, 08:46 AM
even at the top of the Empire State Building we were mithered by beggers begging for cig's and money,

This story is absurd!:rolleyes:

Fabrizio
April 26th, 2007, 08:59 AM
absurd indeed:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/search?p=mither&I1.x=0&I1.y=0&searchmode=normal

Ninjahedge
April 26th, 2007, 09:09 AM
absurd indeed:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/search?p=mither&I1.x=0&I1.y=0&searchmode=normal

Um...

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/m.htm


mitherVerb. To fuss, bother, pester. Also occasionally spelt moither. [North West/Midlands use]
Noun. A complaining or persistently bothering person.

MidtownGuy
April 26th, 2007, 09:46 AM
I've never seen anyone being mithered up there, especially for money.
Do they allow smoking up there?

Schadenfrau
April 26th, 2007, 11:06 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how you can tell a Costa Rican from a Nicaraguan.

When you're a knuckle-dragging, racist troll, it's easy.

OmegaNYC
April 26th, 2007, 11:30 AM
Beggers at the top of the Empire State? That's news to me. (And I guess to Punz, MidTownGuy, and Ablarc as well)

Fabrizio
April 26th, 2007, 11:47 AM
I'm wild again, beguiled again
A simpering, whimpering child again
Bewitched, mithered and bewildered - am I

Not bad.

Ninjahedge
April 26th, 2007, 02:13 PM
Maybe they were just asking directions and did not get past the "Excuse me sir/miss..."

Meerkat
April 28th, 2007, 10:39 AM
I am sorry if you thought i was getting at Native New Yorkers. There seemed to be more costa ricans than Americans every where we went even at the top of the Empire State Building we were mithered by beggers begging for cig's and money, I am not rude nor arragant but I do draw the line at giving my hard earned cash away as for the cig's I dont even smoke.
The hotel was very comfortable again all mixed nationalities employed there. I know a lot of people who have travelled to New York many times, who have experienced the same hostility against us british. I have never done anyone any harm just really surprised as to how we were treated. I now live in Spain where the Spanish come across as arogant which they are to a degree, if you dont speak Spanish that is, I suppose that's life you cant expect every country to except you.


Tilly - i've been to alot of places too, and i haven't experienced any hostility for being English, anywhere i've been as a matter of fact. I have experienced friendly rivalry, which is more harmless banter than anything else. When i was in new york i found the people i met very welcoming, as i have around the world. Of course you get a few bigots here and there but in my experience they base their opinion on crass stereotypes rather than actual experince of a nationality. If you didn't like New York its not a good idea to join a New York based website. Speaking like this just gives ammunition to the likes of Greg T, so try to be a bit more diplomatic. As for beggars at the top of the Empire State building, i can't say i saw any when i was there.